Re: The New DIP Process
On 2/28/2024 7:34 PM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 7:18:29 PM MST Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d- announce wrote: On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 19:24:32 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I see that they're up on the NNTP server, and the web forum is hooked up to them, but there is no mailing list. Is that forthcoming and just isn't up yet since that takes some time, or are these lists not going to have mailing lists like the others? They had to be up on NNTP for them to be added to the forums. I just didn't think about the mailing list. I'll contact Brad. Thanks. - Jonathan M Davis I set them up earlier today. It's entirely possible I missed something while configuring them as it's been just over 6 years since the last new group was added, so do shout if anything looks off. I see that the first two messages already posted made it through, so my confidence is reasonably high. Also worth noting, the news group names are NOT dip.idea and dip.development. They're actually digitalmars.dip.ideas (note the plural) and digitalmars.dip.development. I made the list names just dip.ideas@ and dip.development@ for brevity. Later, Brad
Re: GitHub could be acquired by Microsoft
On 6/8/2018 2:34 PM, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 6/7/2018 10:01 PM, H. S. Teoh wrote: And that is why it's a bad thing to build a walled garden around a code repo, esp. when the underlying VCS is well capable of distributed development. If only there has been a standard protocol for communicating such associated content, such as PR comments and discussions, bugs and issues (this latter not applicable in our case, thankfully), then we could have setup an archival system to retrieve and store all of this information. Unfortunately, AFAIK there isn't a way to do this, and so if Github for whatever reason shuts down, all of this valuable information would be lost forever. Since I have (most) of the Github discussions in email form, I could do something like this if we had to: https://digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/index.html There's a program that runs over the NNTP database to generate the static pages: https://github.com/DigitalMars/ngArchiver Essentially (if not actually) everything on github is available through their api's. No need for scraping or other heroics to gather it.
Re: list server maintenance
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017, Brad Roberts via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: The server that hosts the d email/newsgroup gateway is migrating to new hardware today, so there's going to be some down time (rough estimate, a couple hours). This includes bugzilla emails as well. Ok, took a lot longer than I anticipated, and we're still finding things that aren't working quite right, but mail is flowing again. Please report problems you experience to me. Thanks, Brad
list server maintenance
The server that hosts the d email/newsgroup gateway is migrating to new hardware today, so there's going to be some down time (rough estimate, a couple hours). This includes bugzilla emails as well.
Re: Release D 2.075.0
On 7/24/2017 10:35 PM, Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Saturday, 22 July 2017 at 21:22:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 7/22/2017 2:04 AM, Martin Nowak It'll be converted anyway. :-) Putting the entire set in D (C compiler, C++ compiler, C preprocessor, htod converter, optimizer, code generator) makes the whole thing much more tractable, and who knows what we will be able to do with it! Does that mean that DMC++ will hit Github? I'm also interested in open-sourced version of snn library, of course. It did that a long time ago, but as a private repository. I suspect it won't stay private forever though.
Re: Work on ARM backend for DMD started
On 7/3/2017 11:50 PM, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Monday, 3 July 2017 at 23:16:07 UTC, solidstate1991 wrote: While I currently don't have an ARM based hardware that would be easy to develop on, I'm planning to use QEMU to emulate some form of ARMv6 CPU, as it'll be the main target, as it's still being used in devices like the Raspberry Pi. ARMv5 is being considered if it doesn't need a lot of work, although I don't see a lot of reason behind doing it besides of the possibility of enabling the development of homebrew GBA, NDS, GP32, etc stuff. As I became unemployed recently, I have a lot more time for development, so time now isn't an issue. Or at least until I find a job, which is hard due to my state as a college student, which I'm on the verge of losing it. I would accept your input on various things, like if I should do some adjustments to the in-line assembly stuff, whether I should care about thumb (reduced size instruction set, not available on some newer targets) or not, etc. Got my hands on some official reference manual, it wouldn't hurt if I could research other ones too. I'm aware that this is a topic that's occasionally brought up, but as someone is proposing to go from idea to implementation. It seems like a good time to point out. Someone did this 5 years ago as part of splitting the backend into interfaces - or at least as a working concept that the new interfaces actually allowed you to implement a new target. Maybe you should use their work as a starting or reference point. You'd probably save yourself most the trouble of working out how things connect. Iain. Unless someone else toyed with it also, it was me. There's a branch called 'arm' in my fork of dmd that has a lot of groundwork. I'm sure it's somewhat bitrotten in the few years since I last looked at it. I got as far as being able to emit some _extremely_ basic functions (like calls to libc -- printf worked) and link. I wrote the asm code -- as an exercise to force being able to encode much of the arm instruction set (if I remember right, pretty much everything except the neon vector instructions, and maybe even part of that set) in code structs. But I didn't get to writing the arm version of almost any cd* functions to translate the ir into actual code objects. Honestly, it's a pretty bad proposition. I did what I did as much to learn about the arm instruction set as to get an arm dmd backend. It did teach me a lot and I don't consider it entirely wasted time, but if the aim is to do anything beyond learning, I'd urge looking for a different project. Just getting code of really bad quality emitted will be a lot of work (on top of all the parts I did). Getting mediocre code will be another large amount of work. Getting code close to ldc or gdc is unlikely to ever happen. So, look closely at your motivations and available time.
Re: Vision document for H2 2016
On 7/7/16 12:55 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2016H2 -- Andrei In the release management section, I'd like to see some priority placed on regressions. There was a time that releases were held until those where addressed. It was only a couple releases, but the list did get down to just 1 that was deemed not blocking (I don't remember the details).
Re: 4x faster strlen with 4 char sentinel
On 6/26/2016 11:47 AM, Jay Norwood via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Sunday, 26 June 2016 at 16:59:54 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: Please keep general discussions like this off the announce list, which would e.g. be suitable for announcing a fleshed out collection of high-performance string handling routines. A couple of quick hints: - This is not a correct implementation of strlen, as it already assumes that the array is terminated by four zero bytes. That iterating memory with a stride of 4 instead of 1 will be faster is a self-evident truth. - You should be benchmarking against a "proper" SIMD-optimised strlen implementation. — David This is more of just an observation that the choice of the single zero sentinel for C string termination comes at a cost of 4x strlen speed vs using four terminating zeros. I don't see a SIMD strlen implementation in the D libraries. The strlen2 function I posted works on any string that is terminated by four zeros, and returns the same len as strlen in that case, but much faster. How to get strings initialized with four terminating zeros at compile time is a separate issue. I don't know the solution, else I might consider doing more with this. Yup.. there's a reason that many many hours have been spent optimizing strlen and other memory related length and comparison routines. They are used a lot and the number of ways of making them fast varies almost as much as the number of cpu's that exist. This effort is embedded in the code gen of compilers (other than dmd) and libc runtimes. Trying to re-invent it is noble, and very educational, but largely redundant.
Re: Qt's MOC getting replicated in D for Calypso
On 2/21/2016 9:09 AM, Elie Morisse via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Saturday, 20 February 2016 at 17:34:48 UTC, Nicolas F. wrote: This is really cool and an interesting project, though I've got one concern: How will this fit in with the rest of the C++ efforts done upstream? (...) or is the goal to upstream these changes and make them an officially supported feature? The two efforts are independent, and the main issue with Calypso's approach: it's tied to LDC, LLVM and Clang. Although I had a slight hope that the approach would get recognized as allowing perfect interfacing with C++ incl. things unthinkable with the « from scratch » approach (like C++ template instantiation) and give D an edge that would probably be sufficient to make lots and lots of people switch from C++ to D, as long as DMD is there and a GDC/GCC version isn't proved feasible there's no question about whether this approach should get officially endorsed or not, and nevertheless the current efforts towards better C++ support in DMD should still yield important results. Calypso will exist as a LDC plugin, and yes code using Calypso features will only be build-able by LDC+Calypso. As I see it the goal here is to spearhead a working Qt <-> D interaction, but how would this be used in production? Would Calypso simply be run to generate bindings The goal of Calypso is to make any C++ library of any complexity usable in D straightaway, and there's no binding involved. moc was a barrier for Qt because it only parses C++ code, and Qt's C++ API can hardly be used without the code moc generates. Is there anything preventing Calypso from turning into a code and interface generator? Making it an application that is part of the build rather than a plug in to ldc would make it available to both dmd and gdc users, no?
Re: https everywhere update - dlang.org gets an "A" now!
On 12/3/15 5:38 PM, Brad Anderson via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 22:17:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=dlang.org=on Dlang.org gets an "A" now! Thanks to Jan Knepper's efforts. Nice work by Jan. I know how big of a hassle things like this can be so taking the time to actually do it is much appreciated. On a related note, Let's Encrypt hit public beta today[1]. With that I think we should be able to get all of the official infrastructure on TLS now. It's unfortunate it didn't come a bit sooner because now the NSA knows I read the entire DUB JSON thread, much to my shame. 1. https://letsencrypt.org/2015/12/03/entering-public-beta.html I'm glad that letsencrypt is out there doing the publicity, but getting and using ssl certs has been free via startssl for several years now. What this new group is doing is the PR and marketing to get people to do it, of course under their own umbrella rather than another company's. - Brad
auto-tester partial outage
Tuesday and Wednesday between 8:00am and 4:30pm PDT the auto-tester is going to loose a significant fraction of its build hardware due to power maintenance (my entire neighborhood is loosing its incoming power lines, apparently). I'm in the process of spinning up additional ec2 instances to ensure that we don't loose platform coverage during the maintenance, though there will likely not be the level of redundancy that is available normally. Bad timing considering the hackathon, but hopefully it won't be particularly noticeable to anyone other than me. Later, Brad
Re: Release D 2.067.0
On 3/24/2015 11:18 AM, Martin Nowak via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: One way to improve this would be to have changelogs in the dmd/druntime/phobos repo and make the entries part of the pull requests. For what it's worth, that's how things were setup a long time ago (by me), but a lot of people argued enough that it was dropped. I can't remember why.
Re: Travis-CI support for D
On 12/11/2014 3:16 AM, Martin Nowak via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Thursday, 11 December 2014 at 07:40:14 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 12/11/14, Martin Nowak via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: Glad to announce that D support on Travis-CI was launched today. http://blog.travis-ci.com/2014-12-10-community-driven-language-support-comes-to-travis-ci/ Awesome!! Btw, I've noticed this command in the log file of a Travis run: $ curl http://downloads.dlang.org/releases/2014/dmd.2.066.1.linux.zip ~/dmd.zip It seems a bit of a waste of bandwidth to re-download the release for each run? Indeed, and we'll have to see how that works. Easiest solution would be to add a caching proxy on either side (incapsula?). We could also come up with some chef recipes to preinstall a bunch of compilers on certain worker boxes. For the last 30 days, travis represents about 2.5% of all downloads (1k of 40k). So, not horrible, but could also be a whole lot less (down from 1k to 74 based on January's data) if it were cached on each host.
Re: Travis-CI support for D
On 12/10/2014 11:34 PM, Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 12/11/14, Martin Nowak via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: Glad to announce that D support on Travis-CI was launched today. http://blog.travis-ci.com/2014-12-10-community-driven-language-support-comes-to-travis-ci/ Awesome!! Btw, I've noticed this command in the log file of a Travis run: $ curl http://downloads.dlang.org/releases/2014/dmd.2.066.1.linux.zip ~/dmd.zip It seems a bit of a waste of bandwidth to re-download the release for each run? Also, this will likely skew download statistics for us. Yes, it will. And bandwidth costs money. Please discuss with the travis-ci people how to cache that.
Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!
On 10/3/2014 3:25 AM, David Nadlinger via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Friday, 3 October 2014 at 07:16:14 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Thursday, 2 October 2014 at 12:44:08 UTC, eles wrote: I doubt. At least, not easily. However, installing LMDE should be a one-time process (it's a rolling distribution). Do rolling distributions guarantee to not overwrite fstab? How mint package update differs from a rolling distro package update? Arch Linux warns you about the conflict and installs the new files as e.g. /etc/fstab.pacnew. David I've used at various points in time Debian, Ubuntu, Redhat, Centos, and amazon linux. At no point has any of them ever lost my fstab file, or any other critical file for that matter. My oldest system at this point is about 8 years old and has been ubuntu since it was born and still is. It's current and has rolled through every intervening version quite easily, which is a good thing since it's a vm off in a data center. It's not hard to maintain systems, but they do require maintenance. I wouldn't really expect to neglect a system for many years and be able to rapidly jump it all the way to current. About once a year I go on a big maintenance spree, independent of more frequent minor maintenance. My 2 cents, Brad
Re: D 2.066 is out. Enjoy!
On 8/22/2014 11:33 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 8/22/14, 10:05 AM, John Colvin wrote: As I'm sure has been mentioned elsewhere, the website changes should be part of the release process, not an afterthought. Agreed. Who would like to volunteer being our webmaster? We'll discuss with our admin to give push rights. -- Andrei cronjob that does a git pull, and then everyone with pull permissions can keep the website updated.
Re: DMD v2.066.0-b3
On 7/12/14, 4:31 PM, Andrew Edwards via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Saturday, 12 July 2014 at 00:13:47 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: For convenience, the list of unresolved issues marked as regressions: https://issues.dlang.org/buglist.cgi?bug_severity=regressionresolution=--- Seems like there is still quite a way to go until we can release RC1. David David, I'm sure you are aware that list will never be empty. The last release lasted from mid November to 24 February and that list was never empty once during that entire time. The only way we will empty that list is to prevent people from submitting new regressions during a review. When I checked the list yesterday the count was at 9: right now it is at 12. And at least on of those items on the list has been there since 2011. The reality is that zero emphasis is place on regressions unless it's time for a release, and even then, only a few people pay attention to them. Everyone else just continue on in their happy world doing what's important to them. You you cannot ask that anyone work on anything because if it's not important in their minds, they will not do it. They'd much rather sit around and biker about how you did it incorrectly. Which, in my opinion, is a huge wast of time and resource. So I have some questions: What is the magic number that will trigger the release? What happens if we never reach that number? Do we just continue waiting for it or do we make a decision at some point that it's time? If so, how long do we wait? Is there one person who makes the decision, or is it decision automatic? If there is a person, who is it? An important topic, certainly. But not for the announce newsgroup. Please continue this over on the beta list.
Re: DMD v2.066.0-b3
Also available at downloads.dlang.org On 7/11/14, 5:00 PM, Andrew Edwards via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: The v2.066.0-b3 binaries are now available. The review period for beta 3 will run until 0700 UTC ( PDT, 0300 EDT, 1600 JST) on 14 July 2014, at which time binaries for RC1 will be produced and released. Due diligence in identifying regressions as early as possible is requested and appreciated. Issue 13101, [1], is provided for identifying anyfixedregressions that needs to be picked and included in RC1. B3 binaries are located here: ALL ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b3.zip OSX ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b3.dmg ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b3.osx.zip FREEBSD ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b3.freebsd-64.zip ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b3.freebsd-32.zip LINUX ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd_2.066.0~b3-0_i386.deb ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd_2.066.0~b3-0_amd64.deb ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b3.linux.zip ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b3-0.openSUSE.i386.rpm ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b3-0.openSUSE.x86_64.rpm ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b3-0.fedora.i386.rpm ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b3-0.fedora.x86_64.rpm ftp.digitalmars.com/libphobos2-66_2.066.0~b3-0_i386.deb ftp.digitalmars.com/libphobos2-66_2.066.0~b3-0_amd64.deb WINDOWS ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0-b3.exe ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b3.windows.zip A maintenance release is scheduled for 2.065 on September 15. Request assistance in identifying non-breaking changes (fixes) for inclusion in 2.065.1 by 30 August. Issue 13036, [2], is opened for documenting/consolidating candidates for the point release. Enjoy, Andrew [1] [Cherry-pick v2.066.0-rc1]https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13101 [2] [Cherry-pick v2.065.1-b1]https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13036
Re: DMD 2.066.0-b1
The same set of available files are also here: http://downloads.dlang.org/pre-releases/2014/ NOTE: The amd64 linux build is listed as available, but it's not, yet. On 7/3/14, 6:13 PM, Andrew Edwards via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: A number of technical difficulties resulted in a delayed beta review. The review period has commenced and will continue until 0700 UTC ( PDT) 14 July 2014. Your assistance in identifying and reporting bugs are greatly appreciated. Binaries are located here: ALL ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b1.zip OSX ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b1.osx.zip ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b1.dmg FREEBSD ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b1.freebsd-32.zip ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b1.freebsd-64.zip LINUX ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b1.linux.zip ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd_2.066.0-b1-0_amd64.deb * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd_2.066.0-b1-0_i386.deb * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/libphobos2-66_2.066.0~b1-0_amd64.deb * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/libphobos2-66_2.066.0~b1-0_i386.deb * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b1-0.fedora.i386.rpm * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b1-0.fedora.x86_64.rpm * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b1-0.openSUSE.i386.rpm * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0~b1-0.openSUSE.x86_64.rpm * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd_2.066.0~b1-0_amd64.deb * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd_2.066.0~b1-0_i386.deb WINDOWS ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.066.0-b1.windows.zip * ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd-2.066.0-b1.windows.exe * Note: installers are not yet available for Linux or Windows, please check back again as they will be uploaded upon availability. You can find find a list of changes that have occurred since the release 2.065.0 at [1]. I'm looking for a better way but this should provide an good idea as to what has changed since the last release. Request assistance in identifying non-breaking changes (fixes) for inclusion in the 2.065.1 point release. I need assistance with this because I do not have the expertise to determine what goes into the point release. If nothing is identified, I will abandon the idea of providing point releases. A big thanks to the developers who have dedicated their time and effort to making improvements to the language and making this release possible. A issues ([1] [2]) have been created for identifying commits that require cherry picking for inclusion in future beta/release candidates. Commits not identified will not be picked. Enjoy, Andrew [1] https://github.com/AndrewEdwards/dmd/wiki [2] [Cherry-pick v2.066.0-b2] https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13035 [3] [Cherry-pick v2.065.1-b1] https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13036
bugzilla and auto-tester temporarily down
The host that runs these two services is down. I'm working on getting them back up. There's a reasonable chance I'll end up having to restore both db's from last night's backups, meaning a loss of the last 18 hours of bugzilla changes other than the messages sent to the bugs newsgroup/forum/mailing-list.
Re: bugzilla and auto-tester temporarily down
Both are back up and running, with about 17 hours of data loss (just after midnight pacific time is when the backup ran). I forced the auto-tester to invalidate all 'current' results and start testing everything. For bugzilla, there's 9 messages during that time span, some are due to dupes, so very little data loss. I'll re-enter those now. Please report anything that seems broken (... relative to how it was yesterday). On 7/1/14, 3:30 PM, Brad Roberts via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: The host that runs these two services is down. I'm working on getting them back up. There's a reasonable chance I'll end up having to restore both db's from last night's backups, meaning a loss of the last 18 hours of bugzilla changes other than the messages sent to the bugs newsgroup/forum/mailing-list.
D's timeline
I'm working on my presentation for the conference and I'm running out of time. I'd like to ask you guys for some help locating a few dates: 1) When 0.x transitioned from alpha to beta 2) Was there a beta to release candidate transition for 0.x - 1.x? If so, when? I have the 1.00 release date, that one is easy. 3) When did the 2.x series switch similarly (alpha, beta, rc)? 4) When were the various platforms added to the release bundles? Any other events you consider major in the history of D. I've already got a bunch, but have room to include more and would hate to miss anything big. We each have our own view on what's important and I won't promise to include ones mentioned, but I'd love to have more to consider including. Please send them directly to me (bra...@puremagic.com) rather than follow up in the news group to avoid a long and not really appropriate for the announce group discussion. Thanks, Brad
auto tester moved
I moved the auto-tester to another host and domain name today. It now lives at: https://auto-tester.puremagic.com/ There's a redirect in place from the old location. There's a reasonable chance I've forgotten to update something somewhere. If you stumble across anything broken, please shoot me an email: bra...@puremagic.com. The only thing I'm sure is broken right now are the old greasemonkey scripts to integrate test results with github (the native github build status stuff works still). I'll get those fixed up tomorrow.. they've been needing an overhaul for a long time. Later, Brad
Re: auto tester moved
On 4/16/14, 7:12 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 4/16/14, 1:47 AM, Brad Roberts wrote: I moved the auto-tester to another host and domain name today. It now lives at: https://auto-tester.puremagic.com/ I hate to ask this just after a change already, but... how about moving it to auto-tester.dlang.org? -- Andrei If I had a pithy name for the project (auto-tester isn't in any way pithy) it'd have its own top level domain. In the long term I intend for other projects to use the system, not just dmd and gdc. Not just the d community either. So, no.. being under the dlang.org domain hierarchy is inappropriate. Later, Brad
Re: How I Came to Write D -- by Walter Bright
On 4/10/14, 10:44 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 4/8/14, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/22jwcu/how_i_came_to_write_d/ Btw, w.r.t. #2: W.B.: I've had to learn how to manage a project where people are all volunteers. Since I don't pay anybody anything, I can't tell anybody to do anything. As a contributor I take a different stance here. When Andrei/Walter or someone from the higher ranks asks me about working on a specific feature or pull I'll be ready to jump on it as soon as possible. To me the issue was never about finding what to work on, but prioritizing what's important. So I wouldn't necessarily say that requesting someone to work on something would look bad or be perceived as wanting that someone to do work for free. I think there's plenty of us here who are eager to work on things. I know Andrei said he already tried to ask some members of the community to work on some issues, to no avail. I don't know which issues they were though, but if I'm involved in any of them just ping me and I'll jump to work ASAP. My request for bug prioritization isn't new: regressions, blockers, and majors -- in that order. The number of open bugs that fall into those three severity levels is depressing.
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
Well, my ISP decided that it wanted to take the night off while I was about half done. Completed: - issues.dlang.org should be functional - bug changes are slow due to mail sending - github updated to point to new site Todo: - old site doesn't redirect yet - auto tester graphs pull from the old db - speed up mail sending - copy data dir from old site (affects some functionality) Andrei: can you change the bounty site's config What have I left out / forgotten? More when my connectivity is restored. On Apr 8, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Brad Roberts bra...@puremagic.com wrote: Tonight at 11pm pacific time, about 3 hours from now, the D bugzilla is going to go read-only for some much needed maintenance and upgrading. Assuming all goes well, it will come back an hour or so later as issues.dlang.org. That name isresolvable now with an old copy of the db -- don't use it yet as it'll all be wiped out and replaced by a fresh copy of the real db. Redirects will be in place so that old url's send you over to the new site. If things go badly, I'll abort and make d.puremagic.com/issues/ read-write again and try again after resolving whatever issues caused me to give up tonight. Hopefully things will all go smoothly, and apologies in advance if they don't. :) Later, Brad
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
On 4/9/14, 2:38 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 4/9/14, Brad Roberts bra...@puremagic.com wrote: Tonight at 11pm pacific time, about 3 hours from now, the D bugzilla is going to go read-only for some much needed maintenance and upgrading. Interesting. So what's new in this version of bugzilla (or rather what was the old version and which is the new version?). The few things I can tell at a glance: - All links are underlined by default (a little bit ugly, but I can use a stylish script to override this) - There's a new Tags field now - The site is way faster now, yay! The primary changes: 1) hardware 2) url, into the *.dlang.org name space 3) upgrading from 3.4 (long past it's supported lifetime) to 4.4 (current) As to what the 3.4 to 4.4 changes entail.. I'm sure that list is long as it's years and many many versions worth of changes. Best source for that would be to peruse the bugzilla change logs.
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
On 4/9/14, 5:55 AM, Sönke Ludwig wrote: Am 09.04.2014 14:38, schrieb Sönke Ludwig: Not sure what exactly needs to be done about it, but I noticed that Deskzilla Lite doesn't recognize issues.dlang.org as an open source installation and thus denies to add the D product with its 12k bugs. Also seems like votes are disabled. Fixed, that code was moved to an extension which needed to be explicitly enabled.
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
Wait.. deskzilla, a tool on top of bugzilla, uses Jira to track bugs? There's irony in that. On 4/9/14, 11:51 AM, Orvid King wrote: For the Deskzilla Lite problem, it's because the new URL isn't currently on their list of open-source project's urls. I just opened an issue (https://jira.almworks.com/browse/DZO-1187) with them about it. On 4/9/14, Brad Roberts bra...@puremagic.com wrote: On 4/9/14, 5:55 AM, Sönke Ludwig wrote: Am 09.04.2014 14:38, schrieb Sönke Ludwig: Not sure what exactly needs to be done about it, but I noticed that Deskzilla Lite doesn't recognize issues.dlang.org as an open source installation and thus denies to add the D product with its 12k bugs. Also seems like votes are disabled. Fixed, that code was moved to an extension which needed to be explicitly enabled.
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
It's moving your focus down to the status block just below the comment textarea. Not a bug, but also not super obvious. On 4/9/14, 1:50 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 4/9/14, Brad Roberts bra...@puremagic.com wrote: Tonight at 11pm pacific time, about 3 hours from now, the D bugzilla is going to go read-only for some much needed maintenance and upgrading. I've just noticed some new behavior which looks like a bug. When I click on edit next to the Status of a bug, it just redirects me to e.g. https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12553#add_comment instead.
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
On 4/9/14, 2:26 PM, Kapps wrote: On Wednesday, 9 April 2014 at 07:59:26 UTC, Brad Roberts wrote: Well, my ISP decided that it wanted to take the night off while I was about half done. Completed: - issues.dlang.org should be functional - bug changes are slow due to mail sending - github updated to point to new site Todo: - old site doesn't redirect yet - auto tester graphs pull from the old db - speed up mail sending - copy data dir from old site (affects some functionality) Definitely noticing huge speed improvements and overall things look nicer. One issue I've noticed is that http://issues.dlang.org/ goes to an Apache test page (Amazon Linux AMI Test Page) even after a cache clear. Using https://issues.dlang.org works as expected however. Fixed, thanks. I broke it about an hour ago but it's fixed now.
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
On 4/9/14, 2:47 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 4/9/14, Brad Roberts bra...@puremagic.com wrote: It's moving your focus down to the status block just below the comment textarea. Not a bug, but also not super obvious. I know. But it's a total usability anti-pattern. It would be like hitting the horn in your car and then getting a display on your windshield asking you to touch-screen Yes or No to sound the horn. Feel free to report the issue to the bugzilla developers if it means enough to you. :)
Re: Bugzilla maintenance tonight
On 4/9/14, 9:03 PM, Daniel Murphy wrote: Is there some way to get the severity column back on the search results page? And make regressions orange again? At the bottom of the search results page there is a 'change columns' button with the ui to control the columns to display. You'd have had to do this at some point on the old site too. I think I did the regression == orange manually in the templates and will re-do that change since I haven't found any configuration options to select the colors. It's one of the things on my todo list already since I noticed that too. :)
Bugzilla maintenance tonight
Tonight at 11pm pacific time, about 3 hours from now, the D bugzilla is going to go read-only for some much needed maintenance and upgrading. Assuming all goes well, it will come back an hour or so later as issues.dlang.org. That name isresolvable now with an old copy of the db -- don't use it yet as it'll all be wiped out and replaced by a fresh copy of the real db. Redirects will be in place so that old url's send you over to the new site. If things go badly, I'll abort and make d.puremagic.com/issues/ read-write again and try again after resolving whatever issues caused me to give up tonight. Hopefully things will all go smoothly, and apologies in advance if they don't. :) Later, Brad
Re: DigitalMars' GSoC application has been rejected
On 2/27/14, 3:21 PM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: On Thursday, 27 February 2014 at 22:25:27 UTC, Brad Roberts wrote: On 2/27/14, 2:03 PM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: On Thursday, 27 February 2014 at 21:59:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 2/27/14, 1:42 PM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: In that case, as Yoda would say: Volunteer to prepare GSoC 2015 proposal I shall. Do you have copies of past submissions as a guideline, or is it just what is on the Wiki. Congratulations and good luck! Stay tuned to the general GSoC process and I hope you'll be around in December :o). Google doesn't save past submissions. We have our older gsoc pages on dlang.org and the wiki. I think Walter saved some form data. Andrei I will try to keep an eye on what the successful projects do this summer, that may give me so ideas. Also, keep in mind that GSoC is pretty much two things: 1) a nice little pay check for students 2) a bit of structure around getting work done We can still do #2 without #1. And we don't need google to make it happen. How about trying a practice run despite not having google tossing in the funding? So you mean D Summer of Code? I had actually been thinking of proposing having a D mentoring program. Similar to: https://community.kde.org/Getinvolved/development (at the bottom) Experienced D developers, who feel they could use on a specific project, or who would be otherwise interested in taking on an 'apprentice' could list projects they would like to see someone take on. Interested developers could browse through and see if any of the proposed projects piqued their interest. However, that doesn't entirely fulfill #2 in your list. The 'student' needs some motivation to complete the project I suppose. Perhaps a DConf T-shirt autographed by Walter and Andrei or something :o) Call it whatever you want.. Ideally it's not a specific one time (or recurring) event, but rather the normal way development happens. Someone wants to help, so they do. There's already appropriate mailing lists / forums / newsgroups for interaction. There's lots of work to be done. What's needed is people to step up. Adding a little structure and making it known that the help is available is all good and would likely help tip more people from thinking about it into doing it. The appropriate forum / mailing lists: dmd-internals D-runtime phobos D.gnu digitalmars.D.ldc All of which are available via forum.dlang.org or lists.puremagic.com. All of which contain multiple people who are generally very eager to help. Following bug reports and pull requests and watching how fixes and changes are made is also a pretty good way to learn about the code base. If the commits and code changes don't make sense, feel free to ask the submitter (via private email or publicly on the appropriate forum, preferably the latter) to help explain the change -- chances are more comments would be useful to more than just the asker. As to motivation, personally, I'm not sure we want someone who isn't self motivated. That said, I recognize that sometimes it takes a little something extra to incent getting past the learning curve which can be daunting for any project. I find that financial incentives, like GSoC, tend to attract that disappear shortly after the incentive is removed. The group of people that contribute today are all volunteers, up to and including Walter and Andrei. Some have agreements with their employers to spend work time in various amounts, but that's the exception rather than the rule. My 2 cents, Brad
Re: https everywhere
On 2/21/14, 12:34 PM, Walter Bright wrote: dlang.org and dconf.org now support https, https://dlang.org https://dconf.org Note that this is a self-signed certificate, and so when you first access it you'll get a dire warning from your browser. At this point I'm just repeating what others have already said, but self-signed is seriously unprofessional. It's worse than not having https from a reputation standpoint.
Re: dmd 2.064 release candidate 1
On 11/5/13 2:00 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 11/5/2013 1:52 AM, Arjan wrote: Why not volunteer to handle the FreeBSD package builds? I have access to FreeBSD machine(s) and willing to lend a hand and spend some time on this. What is needed to do the FreeBSD package build? (Currently I just do a git clone/pull of the github dlang stuff and build it to get the master or any other branch I want) Were do I find the build and package instructions? That's part of handling it - figuring out all that stuff :-) I don't know what it is. Is running regressions tests required before releasing a build package? Yes, and the regression suite is part of the github repository. Alternatively, you could talk to Brad and get the actual binaries from the autotester. What is the packages release (and build) frequency? It's a bit erratic, but generally once every 3 months or so. DMD1 and DMD2 (and GDC) seems to be in the FreeBSD ports collection. Why can't those be used to buid the packages? Building it is less of an issue than getting a FreeBSD install. I really do intend to get the package builder producing bundles (not for every single build, that'd be.. scary). It's on my todo list. Maybe I'll dedicate my christmas vacation to that project.
Re: dmd 2.064 release candidate 1
On 11/4/13 5:20 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 11/4/2013 2:47 PM, Rainer Schuetze wrote: Thanks. The Visual D installation is missing from this installer. Obviously, https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/installer/pull/23 has never been merged. As I've just released a new version, it would be nice if it could link to the new 0.3.37. There have been a blizzard of pulls done in the last couple weeks, and it isn't always clear to me which ones should go in 2.064. A note to me would be helpful with this. Also, is that pull enough, or are you suggesting it needs further modification? Why use lossy emails? Submit pull requests against the branch (with a pointer in the request to the associated master pull to help confirm that it's already been merged there first). That way it'll both get tested appropriately and not lost in the shuffle.
Re: Start of dmd 2.064 beta program
On 10/16/13 6:33 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 10/16/13, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: What are you protesting against? Walter. That's not a what, that's a who. Would you please elaborate on the what and why? I haven't seen any obstructionism coming from anyone in terms of repeating the previous style for this releases notes.
Re: Don's talk's video to be online soon
On 6/10/13 5:02 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 6/10/13 7:19 PM, Anthony Goins wrote: On Monday, 10 June 2013 at 18:59:22 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I'm experiencing trouble uploading the video of Don's talk, please bear with me. It will be available either later today or tomorrow morning. Sorry, Andrei Will there be video for Andrew Edwards? Andrew requested that his talk isn't recorded. Andrei Really? That's the one talk I wasn't in the room for and wanted to see. Sigh.
Re: Arch Linux users and packagers : upcoming coomunity/dmd package change
On 5/18/13 8:59 AM, nazriel wrote: On Saturday, 18 May 2013 at 15:26:49 UTC, Dicebot wrote: On Saturday, 18 May 2013 at 14:19:08 UTC, nazriel wrote: Will be shared library installed alongside with static library? Yes. Cool! Will libdruntime.so belong to druntime package? No. Currently there is no separate druntime package as druntime is part of phobos binary. This will be a separate issue to address when I'll start decoupling Phobos. Yeah, this druntime is part of phobos binary business sux. I guess druntime and phobos make files would require tweaking in order to allow building druntime as standalone library. On other hand, AFAIK both LDC and GDC uses modified version of druntime. That would require 3 different packages for druntime. Be it: gdc-druntime, ldc-druntime and dmd-druntime - wonder if this could be improved somehow I fully agree with the desire to make the compilers interchangeable like this, but practical reality is that they aren't. Trying to pretend they are and making it look like they are to end users is just going to lead to frustration and disappointment, I suspect. You cannot take the output or runtime from any of the three and use it with any other of the three's outputs (except maybe in some of the most trivial examples). Hopefully one day, but that day isn't here yet.
Re: DConf 2013 Day 1 Talk 5: Using D Alongside a Game Engine by Manu Evans
On 5/17/13 3:52 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Friday, 17 May 2013 at 22:47:56 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: Really exciting to see how D is being used in this context, and the C++ binding examples are inspiring. The last question in the video was if it would work in Linux too, and idk about the rest of their setup, but the C++ binding is something I've done before, and the code is virtually identical to what Manu did. I think while the C++ ABI is technically unportable, it actually works more or less the same way in practice across the major compilers. Among the posix world, the c++ abi has been well defined for over a decade. The output from every major c++ compiler has been interchangeable for a long time now. Windows and oddball compilers are the only hold outs that I'm aware of. It's a mistake that the D compilers are making (and will address at some point in the not terribly distant future).
Re: We have completed our GSoC 2013 application
On 4/9/13 12:10 AM, Walter Bright wrote: On 4/8/2013 11:42 PM, Rory McGuire wrote: Could we not still run the basics of the program minus the funding? Perhaps there are still students and mentors that would be interested in contributing their time for their name down in the history of D. :) We could call it DSoC. There would still be an approval process that way everyone knows what is expected and there is still the experience and record of that experience for potential employers to refer to so that candidates can use the experience for reference. The D community is stable so I really think this could work (as opposed to a unstable community where references would mean nothing). I would be interested in DSoC more than GSoC because I work full-time and wouldn't be able to put in a full summer of time. Very interesting idea! In what way would this differ from the normal every day experience of hey, I'm going to work on X, could I ask for some help with the design of it?
mail/news gateway, bugzilla, and auto-tester outage
The host running the above services is temporarily off the air. Hopefully it'll be back in a couple hours. Worse case, tomorrow some time (if I have to create a new host and restore from backups). Sorry, Brad
Re: mail/news gateway, bugzilla, and auto-tester outage
On 3/13/2013 2:10 AM, Brad Roberts wrote: The host running the above services is temporarily off the air. Hopefully it'll be back in a couple hours. Worse case, tomorrow some time (if I have to create a new host and restore from backups). Sorry, Brad Services were restored at around 7:30am pdt.
Re: Four new committers on github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers
On 3/9/2013 9:13 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 3/7/13, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers. Can we get added to the dmd-internals group? My emails always get bounced and I have to wait for someone to approve them. You just need to subscribe to the mailing list. http://lists.puremagic.com/
Re: D 2.062 release
On 2/17/2013 5:07 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 2/18/13, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: http://digitalmars.com/d/download.html The dlang.org site isn't updated yet, but the downloads are there. The zip download is broken: http://downloads.dlang.org.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/releases/2013/dmd.2.062.zip It's there now (along with the other variations of the packaging).
Re: D 1.076 and 2.061 release
On 1/6/2013 4:25 PM, Leandro Lucarella wrote: I really hope at some point this will be addressed, and I think other areas of the development process have been improved enough to think this is a good moment to do so, but first management (OK, I will say it: Walter) have to be convinced (or pushed) to do so. Maybe it will take 2 or 3 years. Believing that Walter is the problem is minimizing the problem. There's no way that a single developer can own and drive a roadmap, and that's essentially what Walter is. He's NOT a company of developers. He doesn't have a cadre of people that follow his instructions. If this community feels the need for a concerted _directed_ effort, the community needs to step up and volunteer to produce and progress upon that roadmap. The problem is that while D currently has maybe a dozen developers, each of them is essentially entirely self directed, following their own personal interests. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, and the results have been useful, but those results are also semi-chaotic and essentially impossible to predict. Does anyone know of any mechanism for getting people to do what needs to be done vs what they want to do that doesn't involve paying them? The only long term successes I can point to all involve companies. My 2 cents, Brad
Re: D 1.076 and 2.061 release
On 1/6/2013 5:41 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Sunday, January 06, 2013 17:28:57 Brad Roberts wrote: Does anyone know of any mechanism for getting people to do what needs to be done vs what they want to do that doesn't involve paying them? The only long term successes I can point to all involve companies. You'd have to look at major open source projects. They do sometimes come to together and agree on the direction that they should take (KDE and gnome would probably be good examples of that), and a lot of their efforts get focused on what gets decided, but I believe that it's still primarily a case of people working on what they want to work on. But I haven't examined the development processes of other open source projects in depth. If you have enough people, then the holes tend to get filled, but plenty of stuff still falls through the cracks, and unlike projects like KDE or gnome, I don't think that we have a need to create a direction for our project(s) and decide where they're going to be going. That might happen if we were talking about D3, but we're not (and I think that even the KDE and gnome guys only tend to do that when they're talking about where to go with their next major version). It's more of an issue of making sure that all of the little stuff that needs doing gets done. And if there's something that no one wants to work on or if everyone with the time and skill are working on other stuff that needs to be worked on, then some stuff just doesn't get done. And like you, I have no idea how to fix that. - Jonathan M Davis Both KDE and Gnome have major distributions behind them which almost certainly provide a lot of the labor for the 'not fun' parts. Essentially _every_ popular package has the same. They might be open source, but it's not the volunteers that make them polished, for the most part.
Re: Getting ready for 2.061
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2012-12-25 20:53, Brad Roberts wrote: More hardware would be nice, but isnt a blocker for additional branch testing, software is. Working on it over the holidays. Have you considered using any existing software for continues integration server? We're using CruiseControl (the Ruby version) at work. It's simple and easy to setup and does what we need it to do. I haven't done a survey in a while, but all of the ones I've looked at have lacked at least one of the features I've wanted to have. 1) multi-platform 2) great integration with github and pull requests 3) ability to pull multiple repositories as a coordinated whole and likely more, those are just off the cuff.
Re: Getting ready for 2.061
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/25/2012 5:27 AM, John Colvin wrote: If only we had some small commercial support of some sort... A mac mini is less than ?500 new here in the UK, probably less than that in the US and that's not even considering second-hand... An old, slow, second hand one would be fine, as long as it can run the latest OS X. Thats how we have osx in the pull tester. I picked up a used mini. I've accumulated quite a lot of oldish hardwareat this point. The only other doner machine is Sean's osx box. More hardware would be nice, but isnt a blocker for additional branch testing, software is. Working on it over the holidays.
Re: Getting ready for 2.061
On 12/22/2012 10:39 AM, Jesse Phillips wrote: On Friday, 21 December 2012 at 22:12:47 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: We plan to start building a new release on Sunday evening. To do so (pursuant to the embryonic process we're putting in place), at that time we'll create a new branch called staging for each of dmd, druntime, and phobos. All contributors - over the weekend please ping reviewers on what you believe are pull requests with a high importance*urgency product. Once we branch into staging, pull requests will only be merged into master. Thanks, Andrei Is this the release for 2.061 which is being placed in staging? Pull requests which fix regressions and bugs should go into staging and be made against staging. I strongly recommend requiring that all bugs be first fixed in the development branch and then being pushed backwards through the version history. Quite a few projects follow this pattern based on the requirement that no fix can ever be accidentally left out of a future release. You never want someone to pick up (using made up version numbers) 3.4.2 to get a fix and later upgrade to 4.1.1 and find out it's not yet fixed in that release.
Re: Getting ready for 2.061
On 12/22/2012 3:44 PM, Jesse Phillips wrote: On Saturday, 22 December 2012 at 21:48:51 UTC, Brad Roberts wrote: I strongly recommend requiring that all bugs be first fixed in the development branch and then being pushed backwards through the version history. Quite a few projects follow this pattern based on the requirement that no fix can ever be accidentally left out of a future release. You never want someone to pick up (using made up version numbers) 3.4.2 to get a fix and later upgrade to 4.1.1 and find out it's not yet fixed in that release. Well, to have the easy merging the change must be made against the oldest applicable code. The benefit of merging into staging first is that staging can be merged into master, while master can not be merged into staging. What is nice about making a pull request against staging is that the reviewer knows that the fix can be applied that far (not that comments wouldn't do the same). I don't believe those assertions to be true. Merging in either direction is possible and the difficulty lies in the nature of the drift between the two. Neither direction is necessarily any easier than the other.
Re: D 1.076 Alpha for Windows 64 bits, works with VS 2010
On 9/27/2012 11:01 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2012-09-27 21:51, Walter Bright wrote: Well, I did. The EH mechanism in dmd Win64 is the same as that used for dmd Linux, OSX and FreeBSD, 32 and 64. What does that practically mean from the users point of view? It's another interoperability problem. It means that when mixing c++/d that stackframe unwinding during exception handling doesn't work as expected. It'll be one more thing that eventually needs to be fixed.
Re: D 1.076 Alpha for Windows 64 bits, works with VS 2010
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 9/28/12, Brad Roberts bra...@puremagic.com wrote: It's another interoperability problem. It means that when mixing c++/d that stackframe unwinding during exception handling doesn't work as expected. It'll be one more thing that eventually needs to be fixed. I thought the whole COFF work was entirely about interoperability (well, that and 64bit). Oh well.. Interoperability isn't a single attribute. It's an accumulation of tons of attributes. Much like .so/.dll support. So, 2 steps forward, but 20 left (obviously making up those numbers).
Re: D 1.076 Alpha for Windows 64 bits, works with VS 2010
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/27/2012 11:01 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2012-09-27 21:51, Walter Bright wrote: Well, I did. The EH mechanism in dmd Win64 is the same as that used for dmd Linux, OSX and FreeBSD, 32 and 64. What does that practically mean from the users point of view? It means D cannot throw or catch VC exceptions, and VC code cannot throw or catch D exceptions. Pretty much just like on Linux/OSX/FreeBSD, which doesn't seem to be a problem. It's more than just catching. That's a relatively minor issue. The bigger one is stack unwinding and related cleanups. Consider: c++ function with local variables that have dtors that calls a D function that throws. Those c++ locals will never have their dtors called. It's not a huge problem, but the sum of the problems add up to pain and will need to be fixed at some point. The lack of pain today is that it's barely feasible to mix languages where more than one has any exception handling right now. Something of a catch-22 of issues, imho.
Re: D 1.076 Alpha for Windows 64 bits, works with VS 2010
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/28/2012 12:39 PM, Brad Roberts wrote: It's more than just catching. That's a relatively minor issue. The bigger one is stack unwinding and related cleanups. Consider: c++ function with local variables that have dtors that calls a D function that throws. Those c++ locals will never have their dtors called. It's not a huge problem, but the sum of the problems add up to pain and will need to be fixed at some point. The lack of pain today is that it's barely feasible to mix languages where more than one has any exception handling right now. Something of a catch-22 of issues, imho. True, but I would never write code that tried to throw an exception across language boundaries, anyway. It's just asking for trouble. And that's fine for your code, but if you want D and DMD to be a system that people use for larger systems, then cutting down the sheer number of things that don't work when pushed is kinda important.
Re: Pull freeze
On 8/1/2012 12:30 AM, Russel Winder wrote: On Tue, 2012-07-31 at 01:10 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: […] We're already using Git. I will be robust. You may be making use of Git commands but you are still using Subversion, you are not using Git. You keep blaming it on using subversion or subversion mentality. It has nothing to do with subversion in the slightest. It has everything to do with the evolution of the development process. We were only using SVN for a short period of time and the use of it was a direct evolution from the not using any scm at all, no branching, etc, development process that existed prior to that point. Please, ignore that svn exists, it's irrelevant to D at this point.
Re: Visual D 0.3.32 maintenance release
On 5/13/2012 4:48 AM, Rainer Schuetze wrote: Using git/github is probably less work for you compared to svn, but this also depends on a rather large infrastructure like the auto tester. I'm not sure it does actually help for a project with very few contributors. Neither github nor git made the auto-tester necessary. The volume of contributions did. With SVN they came in via bugzilla and github via pull requests. The ease of automation via the github apis and the dramatic increase in volume of contributions lead to implementing the tester. I likely would have written it (or found one to install) for svn/bugzilla eventually too, but it would have been a bigger job. Anyway, the choice of where you host your project very much is yours. But I can agree with the others, evidence from both dmd/druntime/phobos as well as other projects I'm a part of clearly shows that you'll get more with github than dsource, regardless of svn vs git. And you'll get more with git than svn. Also, for what it's worth, a project with multiple contributors are is much more likely to survive for the long haul than a one man project. My 2 cents, Brad
Re: d.puremagic.com downtime
On 3/3/2012 4:56 PM, Brad Roberts wrote: The server that hosts the mailing lists, bugzilla, and the auto-tester is moving to a new data-center. I intend to do the move tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully it won't take terribly long, but it's hard to estimate since I don't know how long it will take slicehost to do the migration. The first host I did, went much faster than I expected, but it's also a tiny fraction of this server. I intend to start it around 3pm pacific time. If that time is particularly bad for you, please let me know (privately, no need to hold a conversation on the announce group): a) the reason, and b) when a better time would be. I have a good bit of flexibility, with a deadline of March 6. Thanks, Brad Downtime complete. Sorry for the interruption.
d.puremagic.com downtime
The server that hosts the mailing lists, bugzilla, and the auto-tester is moving to a new data-center. I intend to do the move tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully it won't take terribly long, but it's hard to estimate since I don't know how long it will take slicehost to do the migration. The first host I did, went much faster than I expected, but it's also a tiny fraction of this server. I intend to start it around 3pm pacific time. If that time is particularly bad for you, please let me know (privately, no need to hold a conversation on the announce group): a) the reason, and b) when a better time would be. I have a good bit of flexibility, with a deadline of March 6. Thanks, Brad
Re: http://dlang.org/bugstats.php
On 1/21/2012 11:18 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: We just put together a page that counts the bugs per category. It's linked from Bug tracker in the navigation panel. http://dlang.org/bugstats.php The format is sketchy. Looking forward to your suggestions for improvements. Andrei Please see my comments on that commit. The way you've implemented it about the most expensive way possible for both my server and the dlang.org server.
Re: update.sh
On 1/15/2012 6:28 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/15/12 7:39 PM, Jordi Sayol wrote: Al 16/01/12 01:32, En/na Andrei Alexandrescu ha escrit: I just added a handy script, tools/update.sh. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/tools/commit/cc4e3c07c2ebb19dbb90c2d29c828f5fb714e605 It's useful for people who work on dmd and want to either download anew or freshen their repositories. Comments and ideas are welcome. Andrei I got attached errors on Ubuntu 11.04 64-bit, zsh v.4.3.11 Thanks for looking into this, Jordi. Looks like the issue is this: git clone g...@github.com:D-Programming-Language/dmd.git Do you have a github account set up that would let you run the command above? If not, I wonder how the situation can be detected and what instructions to give the user. Andrei IMHO, if you're building from source, you might as well take the time to setup a github account. Otherwise, what's the point? Might as well grab the release binaries.
Re: Programming Windows D Examples are now Online!
On 6/21/2011 2:24 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Walter, would it be possible to make .map file generation follow the -od flag? It's odd when a build script fills a directory with map files while executables and object files are properly in their own directories as specified via -od and -of flags. Btw, I have just pushed a changeset and made the build script parallel. I turned this: foreach (dir; dirs) into this: foreach (dir; taskPool.parallel(dirs, 1)) And added other small cosmetic changes, but the above is the only real change. Here's my timings: Serial build: 1min, 3sec Parallel build: 22sec Fixed in 2.053. See also bug 4833.
Re: dmd 1.063 and 2.048 release
On 8/15/2010 12:54 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Nick Sabalausky wrote: This may be a pain to do, but you could narrow it down from the other direction: recompile DMD from various trunk revisions between 2.046 and 2.047 and see which actual commit created the problem. Try mixing/matching the compiler Phobos to see which one of those caused the issue. While I agree that it's worth trying a bisection -- it's generally really quick and easy to do (the compiler and libraries build rather fast -- about a minute for me). It can be a very useful technique for finding where bugs were introduced. That said, it's likely to be rather difficult for this release due to the number of fixes in the compiler that the library requires and for the periods during which the two didn't work together. Do try it.. worst case is you've wasted a little bit of time. Best case you've found the cause of the bug. Later, Brad
Re: dmd 1.062 and 2.047 release
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Walter Bright wrote: strtr wrote: It's the optimization :) Without -O compilation took only a few seconds! Well, that explains it! Little attempt is made in the optimizer to make it compile faster if that would interfere with generating faster code. Chances are that the changes to allow more inlining contribute to handing the optimizer more work to chew on too.
Re: Bug fix week
On Thu, 27 May 2010, Masahiro Nakagawa wrote: On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:50:14 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: We've had a tremendous infusion of talent and energy in Phobos, and lately work has picked up in unprecedented ways, both in terms of new features and bug fixes. I can't say how happy I am about that! At the end of this starting week, on Friday May 28, TDPL will be out on trucks to bookstores. Let's make this week a bug fixing week for both dmd and Phobos, and issue a release on Monday. We're going public! Andrei I think we need improvement of DDoc. Current DDoc doesn't keep up with D Spec(e.g. ignore @attribute, pure, etc...). Fixes are generated at the rate Walter plus several other volunteers generate them. Care to add yourself to that set of volunteers? The source is fully available.. Bugzilla has a lot of issues to choose your favorite(s) from... Later, Brad
Re: dmd 1.060 and 2.045 release
On Fri, 7 May 2010, Lionello Lunesu wrote: On 6-5-2010 22:37, Michel Fortin wrote: On 2010-05-05 23:45:50 -0400, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com said: Walter Bright wrote: Alex Makhotin wrote: It takes ~40 seconds 50% load on the dual core processor(CentOS 5.3 kernel 2.6.32.4), to get the actual error messages about the undefined identifier. Definitely there's a problem. The problem is the spell checker is O(n*n) on the number of characters in the undefined identifier. That's an algorithm that can't scale then. Checking the Levenshtein distance for each known identifier within a small difference in length would be a better idea. (Clang is said to use the Levenshtein distance, it probably does something of the sort.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance and especially this line: # If we are only interested in the distance if it is smaller than a threshold k, then it suffices to compute a diagonal stripe of width 2k+1 in the matrix. In this way, the algorithm can be run in O(kl) time, where l is the length of the shortest string. The source for this is pretty isolated.. anyone want to volunteer take a shot at improving this part of dmd? Later, Brad
Re: dmd 1.060 and 2.045 release
On Tue, 4 May 2010, Robert Clipsham wrote: On 04/05/10 19:50, Walter Bright wrote: That's the problem with D extensions; unless they get officially adopted they conflict with future changes to the spec. We need to get them officially adopted. Too late for this, DWARF 4 has introduced conflicts with them already. We could try and get them pushed for dwarf 4, but if they get in the values of the tags will have to change (not really a problem, as only one debugger supports them I think, and to my knowledge it isn't widely used for D yet... So we'd be able to talk to the developers and work around this). I'd be willing to take action to get them pushed for DWARF 4 or (if it's too late for that) DWARF 5, if that's OK with you? I've lost track of the details of the extensions that are in use. I assume they're to cover the array and dictionary layouts. I wouldn't be suprised if there wasn't coverage for them in the current dwarf formats, or close enough to make them work. Another potential path, that would obviously be gdb specific, is to include some scripts that help display the more complex types. I saw something about gdb/python integration. A little bit of scripting can go a long long way. Later, Brad
d mailing list downtime
Due to some mis-timing on the part of my t1 circuit provider, all of the mailing lists that I host that gateway the newsgroups are currently off the air. Hopefully I'll have things working again sometime later tonight or tomorrow. The ironic thing is that those that read via the mailing list probably won't see this until after everything is fixed, but, well.. oops. Sorry for the interruption. Later, Brad
Re: d mailing list downtime
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010, Brad Roberts wrote: Due to some mis-timing on the part of my t1 circuit provider, all of the mailing lists that I host that gateway the newsgroups are currently off the air. Hopefully I'll have things working again sometime later tonight or tomorrow. The ironic thing is that those that read via the mailing list probably won't see this until after everything is fixed, but, well.. oops. Sorry for the interruption. Later, Brad All fixed (well, at least the d mailing lists are). Later, Brad
Re: D compiler as part of GCC
On 1/24/2010 11:34 AM, Jesse Phillips wrote: Jerry Quinn wrote: I think you're slightly incorrect, Brad. DigitalMars still owns the copyright to the original source (call it copy A). A fork (called copy B) is donated to the FSF. DigitalMars still gets to make changes to copy A and license them as it sees fit. Copy B is part of the GCC codebase and would evolve separately. Moving changes between them would require the same kind of donation process as the original transfer. Folks making changes to the DMD FE would have to contribute those changes to FSF as well to get them into copy B and vice versa. As best I could tell there were two options, the one Brad was referring to[1], and the one you asked about. In the end, the language spec should be the thing that unifies the D community rather than the adhoc definition provided by a particular front end implementation. It's just a matter of how to get there. I think Brad was refering to the donation process that is required for propogating changes from DM to GCC and visa versa. Since GCC will be using the same front end, it would make since that patches should be applied to both reducing duplicate effort in fixing bugs. I think that at this time, contributers to the front end would not have a problem with making these donations. However in the feature, you might see more people contributing to GCC and not want to donate it for GPL/Artistic... And when that happens I don't think Walter would care that GCC is getting more attention. 1. http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2010-01/msg00432.html The key issue: Can one piece of code have two copyrights on it. I'm no lawyer, but I'm almost certain the answer is NO. That's the question that Walter asked to have clarified, but that's not the question that was asked. Asking the gcc developers is also a bad idea since they're not lawyers. The only way to really handle this correctly is to have lawyers do the question asking of lawyers. Having lay people (including myself) as intermediaries and interpreters is just wrong. The rest is details about dealing with code under multiple licenses and transferring changes that are licensed differently between the two code bases. That clarify anything? Later, Brad
Re: D compiler as part of GCC
On 1/24/2010 2:13 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Brad Roberts wrote: That's the question that Walter asked to have clarified, but that's not the question that was asked. Asking the gcc developers is also a bad idea since they're not lawyers. The only way to really handle this correctly is to have lawyers do the question asking of lawyers. Having lay people (including myself) as intermediaries and interpreters is just wrong. You're probably right, the only way to do this is to consult a lawyer. That's going to be thousands of dollars. And frankly, I've never worked with a lawyer who was willing to commit to any particular legal opinion anyway. You're probably versed enough to do the talking for yourself with one of the FSF lawyers. Chances are that might actually not cost you anything.
Re: D compiler as part of GCC
On 1/23/2010 4:15 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 23 de enero a las 12:54 me escribiste: Jerry Quinn wrote: Walter Bright Wrote: Will they take a fork of the dmd source, such that they own the copyright to the fork and Digital Mars still has copyright to the original? Hi, Walter, The answer appears to be yes: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2010-01/msg00430.html Jerry That's great news. I suppose I should look over the forms they talk about! Great news indeed! Since DMD FE is GPL I think it won't be any trouble to fold in the new changes back to GDC as they did (and LDC too), so it won't be really a *fork*, right? Well, still I won't be supporting gdc directly. It would mean a team that would be willing to take new DMD FE updates and fold them into GDC, and then follow whatever gcc's build and release conventions are. I don't think you got the answer you were looking for. You got an answer to a different question. If you assign the copyright over to the FSF, they then own the code. You'd have a license to use it as you like in return, but you would no longer be the owner. Additionally, as pointed out in the gcc@ thread, contributions coming into the gcc tree wouldn't have anything other than the gpl license attached to them and that would likely make them problematic to re-distribute from your tree with the dual gpl/artistic license. In simpler words, this is still far from straightforward. I'd still love for there to be fewer split efforts on the compiler front, so I do encourage trying to find a workable solution.. but tread carefully. Later, Brad
Re: dmd beta mailing list
On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, Guillaume B. wrote: Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:38:22 -0500 From: Guillaume B. guillaume.b.s...@spam.ca Reply-To: digitalmars.D.announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com To: digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com Newsgroups: digitalmars.D.announce Followup-To: digitalmars.D.announce Subject: Re: dmd beta mailing list Leandro Lucarella wrote: Guillaume B., el 4 de enero a las 19:10 me escribiste: I prefer to read everything in my news reader. Is it possible to add the following malling lists from http://lists.puremagic.com/ to gmane? ( http://gmane.org/subscribe.php ) - dmd-beta - dmd-concurrency - phobos - dmd-internals Some lists for D are already on gmane so it would be nice if they could all be there. Yes, just do it yourself: http://gmane.org/subscribe.php Hi, I know I can do it myself but I wanted to be sure it was OK since, on gmane, it's written: [...] ask the people on the mailing list first. Or at least the mailing list administrator. Then you fill out the subscription page. So is it OK for Brad and/or Walter? Thanks, Guillaume I don't care.. other than that it's now gone full circle. I originally suggested that it just be in the .announce newsgroup.
Bugzilla upgrade: sometime tonight
I'm going to bump bugzilla from 3.2.3 to 3.4.1 sometime tonight. It should only take a few minutes. After the update, you'll need to force refresh your browser to pick up updated .css and similar files. The update on the digitalmars c++ bugzilla instance went fast and easy, so I don't expect problems for the d bugzilla. (famous last words) Later, Brad
Re: dmd 1.046 and 2.031 releases
That's really cool. But I don't think that's actually happening (Or are these the bugs you're talking about?): byte x,y; short z; z = x+y; // Error: cannot implicitly convert expression (cast(int)x + cast(int)y) of type int to short // Repeat for ubyte, bool, char, wchar and *, -, / http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3147 You may want to add to it. Before going too far, consider: byte x, y, z; short a; a = x + y + z; How far should the logic go?
Re: Metaprogramming in D tonight at the NWCPP
BCS wrote: Reply to Georg, I was always terrible at memorization. I couldn't learn my lines in school plays, and once I starred in an educational movie. The director was pulling his hair because I couldn't remember 15 secs of lines at a time. If I make a presentation, I simply have to get familiar with the subject, and then have the slides, like, be my cheat sheet. I always envied the guys (often sales reps, or evangelists), who did the same thing word-for-word, even if I saw them again after six months. I can't memorize speeches either (OTOH I really like ones where I can read it off a script) what I'd love to have is a power point setup with two screens for me, one with a copy of the projector and one with my notes (in inch high font) and thumbnails of the following slides. If you haven't before, check out presenter mode in powerpoint. It's pretty much what you just described. Only takes two screens, one the projector and the other your laptop's display. The laptop display has 3 panes: a sliding window of the slides; the current slide; and your notes. Later, Brad
Re: Metaprogramming in D tonight at the NWCPP
Sean Kelly wrote: Georg Wrede wrote: That's certainly true with non-techie audiences. I wish we had had speaking classes when I went to school. The first time I gave a lecture at the university, my hands trembled visibly on the OH. I'm fine if I can just sit down and talk, but if I have to stand in front of people I still get nervous and scattered. I was told my talk at the D conference actually went reasonably well, but I forgot or missed about half the points I'd meant to cover out of sheer terror :-) During a public speaking course in high school one of our lectures was supposed to be a published work of some sort, so I did the part of a evangelical preacher in a Steven King novel. It was a breeze to do and I had a lot of fun with it, playing with pace and tone. Something about the fact that I was acting instead of simply speaking as myself made all the difference in the world. If I had to give talks regularly I'd probably prepare them pretty much word for word just to feel more like I was doing this, at least until I got more comfortable with speaking. Most of that is just repetition. I used to be scared as hell.. just rushed through whatever I had to tell people and finish as fast as I could. I've now done enough presentations that the terror has subsided and I can give a decent talk. It took years and lots of terror though. Later, Brad
Re: Compiler Construction seminar, Sep 20-22
Daniel Keep wrote: Walter Bright wrote: In Astoria, Oregon, on September 20-22 I'll be hosting a Compiler Construction seminar along with Cristian Vlasceanu. http://www.astoriaseminar.com/compiler-construction.html It'll be a two day intensive course in how compilers work and how to build them. Curse you, Pacific ocean, CURSE YOU! -- Daniel Well, if you start swimming now...
Re: Just one more thing...
Michel Fortin wrote: On 2009-02-27 16:37:13 -0500, Jacob Carlborg d...@me.com said: Nick Sabalausky wrote: Ordinarily, I detest the idea of pulling support for anything as recent as just a few years old. But Apple themselves has a habit of ignoring users of anything except the latest version, so I would think that mac users would be accustomed to the old routine of their OS becoming a deadend the moment a new version comes out. So, in this case, I would think that there may actually be justification in sticking with 10.5+, if you were to so choose. I would not completely agree with you on this. When you install the developer tools on osx 10.5 it installs SDKs for 10.5 and 10.4 as default, but you can also choose to install support for older versions. I'm not sure if it's only for 10.3 or also for 10.2. On Mac OS X 10.5, you can compile for 10.3 using Xcode 3, and 10.2 using Xcode 2.5 (Xcode 2.5 for Leopard is a free download). Of course, 10.2 and 10.3 being PowerPC-only, there's no point trying to compile DMD for them. You can do that if and only if you don't require newer apis. If you've been reading this thread, you know that the runtime uses the posix thread apis and those are supported less and less well as you go back in time. The ability to support the old versions isn't some magic wand that conjures up new features into those old releases. Later, Brad
Re: DMD 1.039 and 2.023 releases
Jason House wrote:
Walter Bright Wrote:
redsea wrote:
I'm happy to see Bugzilla 2518(scope(success) not execuate and RAII
variable destructor is not called) has been fixed, Great !
I have some questions when I check dstress suite and Bugzilla.
In Bugzilla 99, according to test case:
int main(){ int i; label: { scope(exit) i++; i=3; }
if(i != 4){ assert(0); }
return 0; }
You said:
The test case behaves as expected, because labels do not introduce a
new scope when followed by { }.
Then I check the online manual, and found:
labels, scope(), pragma, condition compile(version/debug/static if)
would be followed by NonScopeStatement.
It is easy to understand scope/condition compile followed by a
NonScopeStatement, but what is the meaning of Labeled Statements
+ NonScopeStatement ?
A NonScopeStatement is a statement that, even if it has { }, does not
introduce a new scope.
I don't think this answers their question. What curly braces mean
after a label is clearly a design decision that you made when writing
D. It seems that the choice is the opposite of what people expect.
Can you explain why it should be NonScope?
Restating in the form of a question... When would you _ever_ want {...}
to not form a scope?
Later,
Brad
Re: DMD 1.039 and 2.023 releases
BCS wrote:
Reply to Brad,
Restating in the form of a question... When would you _ever_ want
{...} to not form a scope?
static if(foo)
{
int i;
float x;
}
That and the version one are good examples.
However, the case example isn't. It actually already forms a scope, and
that's a good thing. Example:
switch (foo)
{
case 1:
{
int i;
}
case 2:
i = 0; // build error (error: undefined identifier i
}
Later,
Brad
Re: Scope storage class
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, Walter Bright wrote:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
So my suspicion is correct, then? That is:
scope int delegate() b;
b = { ... };
Will allocate on the heap?
Yes. The scope for delegates takes effect as a parameter storage class, not a
local variable storage class. The reason is because it is the called function
that decides what it's going to do with the delegate.
Walter, this is yet more evidence that shows that accepting and ignoring
these sorts of modifiers is the wrong thing to do. Accepting dubious
definitions like 'public private int foo' and the above make life harder
than it needs to be.
Later,
Brad
Re: DMD 1.036 and 2.020 releases
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Max Samukha wrote: Please add the compiler versions to bugzilla. Done.
