Re: [digitalradio] Linux Here I come!

[Per]

You will want to install it, what ever you add will otherwise be lost as soon 
as you reboot.
In order to get the ham radio software you have to enable repositories to get 
that stuff from.
Universe and multiverse should be enabled, medibuntu is extra. Look under 
administration and start "software sources" (not sure abt that name as I use 
the swedish translation). Enable those repositories and have it refresh the 
lists. After that the ham radio section will be stuffed.

73 de Per, sm0rwo






From: Marty W8AKS 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, October 31, 2009 10:35:07 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Linux Here I come!

  
Okay, I've got 9.1 up and running off the Cd. Into 
the Synaptic Package Manager; but I can't find any of the ham programs (wsjt, 
fldigi, etc). Under the "ALL", scroll all the way down with no 
success.
 
What am I doing wrong? Do I need to install 9.1 to 
the hd in order to retrieve the packages?
 
Thanks and 73
Marty
W8AKS
 
 
- Original Message - 
>From: James 
>  French 
>To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com 
>Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 18:29 
>  PM
>Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Linux Here I 
>  come!
>
>  
>I would recommend Ubuntu 9.04 to start with.
>
>It's what most of us 
>  here locally are using. Ubuntu is a
>variatnt of Debian which is the basis 
>  for a couple of other
>'flavors' of Linux.
>
>Ubuntu and Debian come 
>  with WSJT, fldigi, and gMSFK as
>supported software installs. You'll also 
>  have other Amatuer
>radio related software to pick and choose from in the 
>  Synaptic
>package manager ranging from Sat tracking to NEC 
>  antenna
>modeling software. All open source software...: ) You will 
>  even
>be able to upload to the ARRL Logbook Of The World 
>  even.
>
>Another benefit is that if you want to run PSKmail, you will be 
>  able
>to. I have set it up, but not done much with it other than to 
>  know
>that it works.
>
>I would recommend that you find a local Linux 
>  Users Group (LUG)
>in your area to attend as that usually is the BEST source 
>  of information
>on any problems that you may encounter. Here's a link to a 
>  few in that
>might be close to you for help:
>http://www.linux. org/groups/ usa/westvirginia .html
>Just 
>  do a search for Linux User Groups in your favorite search engine to
>find 
>  others.
>
>Hope this helps some.
>
>James W8ISS
>
>
   


  

[digitalradio] Re: Linux Here I come!

[doug_helbling]

I use Ubuntu 8.04 here with fldigi and qsstv and it is very well behaved.  If 
you are new to Linux, you could do worse than Ubuntu.  I would consider going 
with 9.04 though, instead of 9.10, at least until you figure out if all the 
possible Ham radio applications you might want to run WILL run on 9.10.  The 
Ubuntu 9.10 release seems to have done away with support for legacy system 
library libstdc++.so.5, which is still used on a lot of older applications.  

On the other hand, if you are going to be doing just "core" digitial radio with 
fldigi, flarq, maybe some pskmail ... then 9.10 may be just the ticket.  Note 
that there are now typically THREE flavors of UBUNTU per release, a server 
version, with no gui and few routine user tools, a DESKTOP version, which is 
probably what most people (including laptop users) really need, and a NETBOOK 
version, which is more streamlined and targets the leaner, meaner new netbooks. 
 I suggest going with the desktop version.

If you go for another flavor of Linux, pretty much any of the top ten will 
probably be great.  OpenSUSE is very popular in Europe and elsewhere.  There is 
also SUSE (the NOT OpenSUSE version), and Fedora, plus Mandrake and Turbolinux. 
 My second choice has always been Fedora, until they did stupid things to 
release 9 and 10, but they seem to be back on track again with Fedora now.

The best argument I can offer to go with Ubuntu is that on the last 5 machines 
I installed it, every piece of hardware on the system (video, sound, bus 
controllers, usb drivers, etc.) worked with no magic from me as far as driver 
loading, etc.  This includes everything from an old Pentium II laptop (circa 
1997) to a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with a PCI-express Ndvidia 8800 graphics card, 
plus a few systems in between.  I cannot honestly say I have this kind of luck 
when putting together (or repairing) Windows systems, though I do use those, 
too, every day.  I recently loaded Ubuntu 9.04 on my teenager's machine, which 
she uses for email, homework (OpenOffice), and Facebook.  She is not a computer 
power user.  The system runs great and she is very happy with it!

The best argument to NOT go Linux if you are a ham is because many Windows app 
are just not available on Linux.  BUT ... if you run 'wine', which is a free 
windows "emulator" that runs on Linux, you can, with a bit if research on the 
various forums, get just about any application that will run on Windows 2000 or 
XP to run under Linux.  This even includes the feature-rich Ham Radio DeLuxe 
and companion DM780 from Simon Brown.  (I love fldigi, but I also love HRD!)

Good luck in your Linux ventures.  Note that there are a couple of other Yahoo 
groups that cover fldigi and related stuff which are very helpful with sorting 
out Linux issues, too.  This can be a religious thing, but don't let it.  I say 
all OS's have their place.  I just happen to see Linux fitting just about every 
place.

- Doug/ke7sei

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Brabham"  wrote:
>
> I've tried out Ubuntu and Puppy linux ( on different machines ) and had no 
> major problems with either of them. I like DSL Linux too.
> 
> I've got to admit though that working with Linux is like wearing cowboy boots 
> - the best part of it is at the end of the day when you take them off ( go 
> back to using Windows ).
> 
> It's interesting to do things differently and I like that, but the 
> performance just isn't there with Linux. In the end, doing things with a good 
> Windows box is always faster, easier, more certain and more reliable.
> 
> If you are in the mood to tinker though, Linux is much much better than 
> Windows for that. - It's most definately a learning experience, which is not 
> so bad at all.
> 
> 
> 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
> 
> Prefer to use radio for your amateur radio communications? - Stop by at 
> HamRadioNet.Org !
> 
> http://www.hamradionet.org
> 
> 
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Alan Wilson 
>   To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 2:25 PM
>   Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Linux Here I come!
> 
> 
> For linux ham, I would recommend Linux Mint where you can install the o/s 
> on your computer and download and install ham apps easily. If you want to run 
> off a small O/S via cd or flash go with Puppy. Fldigi works good with 
> either...gud luck, Alan
> 
> 
> 
>   On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Marty W8AKS  wrote:
> 
>   
> I have a backup laptop that I want to install Linux on for learning and 
> probable switchover when XP support goes away.
> 
> I did not realize how many different flavors of Linux there is. Can the 
> group recommend a flavor that is favorable to ham radio. Any recommended 
> ham radio programs would also be appreciated. After a learning curve I'll 
> probably be on the air utilizing linux vice windows.
> 
> Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks and 73
> Marty
>

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Linux Here I come!

[Ian Wade G3NRW]

From: doug_helbling 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009   Time: 09:01:38

>I use Ubuntu 8.04 here with fldigi and qsstv and it is very well 
>behaved.

[Snip some very interesting stuff].

[Re wine]:

>This even includes the feature-rich Ham Radio DeLuxe and companion 
>DM780 from Simon Brown.

Hi Doug,

I have tried to get HRD working under wine, without success. Can you 
point me to anywhere that explains how to do it?

-- 
73
Ian, G3NRW

Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello Tony,

>What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? 
What i do is adding noise so as to reach a S/N=-15 dB. Then I see if it works 
(decode or not). According to the result, I will try -14 or -16 dB etc...

In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal 
energy in its band and noise in the reminder of the band (or part of it). After 
normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the result (which is not 
very precise). 
There are other methods (based on correlations and hypothesis) as with Olivia 
and JT65 but they are neither very precise.
For example, you could evaluate the S/N according to the phase jitter in PSK 
mode (the more the phase moves randomly, the lower the S/N ratio is), but this 
would work only in good ionospheric conditions. 

73
Patrick



  - Original Message - 
  From: Tony 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk





  Patrick,

  I think you are right about the burst characteristics of the mode and the way 
the PathSim software handles this. Seems logical since our SNR tests have been 
consistent with other modes.  

  I have an audio editor that has the capability of adding white noise, but it 
doesn't indicate the SNR once the mode audio is mixed. 

  > I mix signal and noise at digital level before the analogical transform and 
then I see at what level I can
  > decode.

  What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? 

  Tony -K2MO

  > 


  

Re: [digitalradio] Linux Here I come!

[Robert Ellis]

On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:09 PM, Charles Brabham wrote:

>
> I've tried out Ubuntu and Puppy linux ( on different machines ) and  
> had no major problems with either of them. I like DSL Linux too.
>
> I've got to admit though that working with Linux is like wearing  
> cowboy boots - the best part of it is at the end of the day when you  
> take them off ( go back to using Windows ).
>
> It's interesting to do things differently and I like that, but the  
> performance just isn't there with Linux. In the end, doing things  
> with a good Windows box is always faster, easier, more certain and  
> more reliable.

This is really subjective. I, personally, find lots of performance  
present with linux, as opposed to Windows. I favor UNIX over Windows,  
electing to use Linux, HP-UX and Apple's OS X. For me, Windows is used  
only as a last resort, for one or two ham apps that I haven't found  
elsewhere (eg, g4ilo's morse machine).

The OP may similarly find that linux is like a fine pair of lamb's  
wool slippers that one never wants to take off. ;)

Once you've become familiar with linux, you might consider installing  
a linux tailored for embedded systems such as openWRT  
(www.openwrt.org) on a linksys router (eg, wrt54g) and start playing  
with high speed multimedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Multimedia 
). Linux opens many doors not available to Windows.

> If you are in the mood to tinker though, Linux is much much better  
> than Windows for that. - It's most definately a learning experience,  
> which is not so bad at all.
>
>
> 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL

robert

[digitalradio] WINMOR more

[obrienaj]

So, a few weeks ago WINMOR was just a concept to most of use.  Now many have 
tested the simple soundcard alternative to $1000 modems and the verdict appears 
to be...  it works !  It works as an email/file sharing digital mode but not 
perhaps as a strong competitor to Pactor III in terms of performance.   I think 
the authors and development team will probably point out that they never 
intended to have the mode equal or better PIII , rather simply provide an 
alternative that was effective on HF.  While there are a few problems still 
being worked on, my views is that even if they never made any more 
improvements...their goal has been achieved.  

While some WINMORons (I think that is what we should call ourselves) have 
achieved transfers in the 1000 to 2000 bytes per minutes range, I have been 
mainly in the 200-400 range. It still works though.  

The next stage will perhaps be the most interesting, switching from 
experimental peer-to-peer email exchanges and incorporating WINMOR fully in to 
the Winlink suite of applications .  From a emcomm point of view, the ability 
for a RACES station to simply be able to send traffic via packet and Telnet, 
PLUS have a HF server accessible without needing a $1000 modem , will be very 
helpful.   How the bands will be with ping-ponging mail exchanges is another 
matter, I suspect some will not be happy.  The busy detect in WINMOR does work 
though, that should help.

Andy K3UK

[digitalradio] FLARQMOR

[Andy obrien]

I have configured my digital mode interface and PC to use two
differing PTT ports and can run both FLARQ and WINMOR at the same time

see http://www.obriensweb.com/winmorflarq.jpg

Not literally transmit at the same time (that might blow up my radio)
but I can dual receive and I  am thus available for connects via
WINMOR or FLARQ mail on the same frequency with just one radio.  My
FLARC station has RS ID for receive activated, so various modes are
available.  I am parked on 14112 USB (dial) with waterfall position of
 1000 Hz.  So if you want a keyboard QSO or to send me an email via
Winmor or FLARQ, I'll be in the shack. most of the day Nov 1.
Andy K3UK

[digitalradio] Waking a FLARQ with RS ID

[Andy obrien]

Suppose you think a desired station is on a frequency with his/her
FLARQ station active .  You think that perhaps the  station is set to
PSK250 and you know that conditions are way too poor for a PSK250
exchange .  If that station has RS ID on receive activated (and we all
know we should  always do this, right? ) you can switch the desired
station over to a more suitable mode.  If you send an RS ID, that
should change the other station too  (it actually depends on their
settings, but it is possible. ) .  You don't get any confirmation that
the other station successfully changed modes though.  It is possible
that if conditions are poor the RS ID will not be detected.  I usually
send the RS ID three times just as a precaution.  Then , using FLARQ,
enter the desired call sign in the little callsign box and press
"connect".  FLARQ will use the mode you established and try an ARQ
conenct with your desired station.  If connected, you can send the
email or file and even have a keyboard chat via the "plain talk"
feature.

Re: [digitalradio] New to digital modes? Try this weekend's challenge

[Phil Williams]

CO2DC 7.035 @ 1216Z on the following modes.

thor4, olivia 4/125, olivia 16/500, and mt63-500 w/ short interleave.


philw de ka1gmn kn





On Fri, Oct 30, 2009at 4:55 AM, Andy obrien  wrote:

>
>
> If people want to use those other modes ...go for it.  I did not include
> THOR or ALE400 because they are not common to all three software packages.
>
> Andy K3UK
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Phil Williams  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What about ALE-400?  This is a mode that I have never used.  I have
>> finally installed mutlipsk which offers this mode.  I would sure like to get
>> some hands on with ALE-400.
>>
>> Oh yeah, I second the motion on Feld Hell.  Thanks KT.
>>
>> philw de ka1gmn
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Kurt Tuttle  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   I would recommend FeldHell also.
>>>
>>> KT
>>> K8YZK
>>>
>>> --- On *Thu, 10/29/09, Phil Williams * wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Phil Williams 
>>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] New to digital modes? Try this weekend's
>>> challenge
>>> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>>> Date: Thursday, October 29, 2009, 7:13 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  What?  No THOR?! ;-)
>>>
>>> philw de ka1gmn
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 9:31 AM, obrienaj >> com
>>> > wrote:
>>>

  We have had few new people join this group after the QST article on RS
 ID. Since many of them are NEW to digital modes other than RTTY or PSK31...
 I thought I would challenge the people who have not ventured away from 
 PSK31
 or RTTY to try a task this weekend. Three QSOs in three different modes. To
 keep is focused, I suggest you choose from these 5 modes

 Olivia
 Feld Hell
 Domninoex
 MFSK16
 MT63

 If you have NO clue about these modes, great... just ask and we will get
 you started. Choose Multipsk, Fldigi, or DM780 as your software and we can
 help set up.


>>>
>>>
>>
>  
>

Re: [digitalradio] New to digital modes? Try this weekend's challenge

[Andy obrien]

Well done.

Andy K3Uk

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Phil Williams  wrote:

>
>
> CO2DC 7.035 @ 1216Z on the following modes.
>
> thor4, olivia 4/125, olivia 16/500, and mt63-500 w/ short interleave.
>
>
> philw de ka1gmn kn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009at 4:55 AM, Andy obrien  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> If people want to use those other modes ...go for it.  I did not include
>> THOR or ALE400 because they are not common to all three software packages.
>>
>> Andy K3UK
>>
>

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Linux Here I come!

[James French]

On Sunday 01 November 2009 04:13:17 Ian Wade G3NRW wrote:
> From: doug_helbling 
> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009   Time: 09:01:38
> 
> >I use Ubuntu 8.04 here with fldigi and qsstv and it is very well 
> >behaved.
> 
> [Snip some very interesting stuff].
> 
> [Re wine]:
> 
> >This even includes the feature-rich Ham Radio DeLuxe and companion 
> >DM780 from Simon Brown.
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> I have tried to get HRD working under wine, without success. Can you 
> point me to anywhere that explains how to do it?
> 

I have no idea on the other distros out there, but here on Ubuntu 9.04 I
just downloaded the latest HRD and loaded it with wine.

Getting some errors about 'out of memory' and it seems to stall a little, but
it seems to be working somewhat. I haven't tried any of the digital modes
or setup controlling my Icom yet. The Dxcluster connect to the Internet
works.

Just did this to see if I could load HRD, not to use it as my main logger or
digital interface. I have plenty of that installed already for Ubuntu.

All I did was download it to my desktop and then right clicked then down to
'Wine Windows program loader' and clicked. It loaded ok with a couple of issues
that I can't remember what it said. Other than that, it has loaded.

Wine seems to have grown up and gotten a better install and support with each
newer Ubuntu. I remember a year and half ago that I couldn't even get Wine to
run anything without crashing horribly.

I am only an end user that has some tinkering skills with linux...:) I am good 
enough
to get things working on my own systems...:)

James W8ISS

Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk [5 Attachments]

[Tony]

Patrick, 

It certainly seems difficult to precisely measure digital mode SNR so thank you 
for explaining that. I think the PC sound card method is accurate enough to 
show the relative difference between modes and more importantly, the digital 
mode path simulations and SNR tests seem to correlate well with on-air 
performance. 

> In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal 
> energy in its band and noise > in the reminder of the band (or part of it). 
> After normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the
> result (which is not very precise). 

I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but I noticed that Multipsk SNR 
figures compared well with PathSim when the two programs were "linked" together 
during my SNR testing (white noise only). 

Multipsk tends to show a slightly higher SNR with certain modes, but the values 
are still within 2db. I took a few screenshots that show Multipsk and PathSim 
working together connected via VAC (see attached).

Moe Wheatley describes the SNR method used in the PathSim docs: 

"If the AWGN source is enabled then Gaussian white noise can be added to the 
input signal in order to simulate various SNR ratios. An SNR of 0 means that 
the input signal rms level is equal to the noise rms level as measured through 
the 3KHz bandpass filter" 

Thanks for all Patrick. 

Tony -K2MO




- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Lindecker" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk


> Hello Tony,
> 
>>What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? 
> What i do is adding noise so as to reach a S/N=-15 dB. Then I see if it works 
> (decode or not). According to the result, I will try -14 or -16 dB etc...
> 
> In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal 
> energy in its band and noise in the reminder of the band (or part of it). 
> After normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the result (which 
> is not very precise). 
> There are other methods (based on correlations and hypothesis) as with Olivia 
> and JT65 but they are neither very precise.
> For example, you could evaluate the S/N according to the phase jitter in PSK 
> mode (the more the phase moves randomly, the lower the S/N ratio is), but 
> this would work only in good ionospheric conditions. 
> 
> 73
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: Tony 
>  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
>  Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:44 AM
>  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Patrick,
> 
>  I think you are right about the burst characteristics of the mode and the 
> way the PathSim software handles this. Seems logical since our SNR tests have 
> been consistent with other modes.  
> 
>  I have an audio editor that has the capability of adding white noise, but it 
> doesn't indicate the SNR once the mode audio is mixed. 
> 
>  > I mix signal and noise at digital level before the analogical transform 
> and then I see at what level I can
>  > decode.
> 
>  What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? 
> 
>  Tony -K2MO
> 
>  > 
> 
> 
>  
>