Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Nov 10, 2007 10:01 PM, ToddG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't think (at least hope) that people in general are slighting the > amount of effort that goes into a release -- a big recurring theme > seems to be though that what you keep graciously going to great > lengths to repeat here isn't publicly posted in an idiot-proof manner > on the site or wiki or anywhere (at least obvious enough that everyone > can find it, including myself). Also since 'Roadmaps' is disabled in > Trac, that usual place to look for a general overview is missing as > well. While I agree that, in general, we can do a much better job of explaining where Django is going, I'm never entirely certain of what the best method is right at the moment, and there are several factors which make it difficult right now. For example, Django's currently pre-1.0 software, which means that -- even though most of the framework is extremely stable -- we're still working on nailing down APIs and internals to get to something we can commit to maintaining for a while once we have a 1.0 release (and there is a document outlining APIs that we're happy with and that people can safely rely on[1]). Being pre-1.0 also means that Django really doesn't have a formalized release process yet; right now the goal is to get all the APIs stable and finish all the features we need to have before calling it "1.0". Most of that's easy to glean from existing documentation or from casual skimming of the development timeline and the developers' mailing list, but it complicates the process of trying to forecast releases; once we're at 1.0 it'll be much easier to lay out a road map for future features and changes (and, in fact, we'll have to do that). Finally, the fact that Django is an all-volunteer project with no direct funding or corporate support makes it difficult to get somebody assigned to maintaining documentation on the state of Django and plans for future releases (in theory that's my job as release manager, but all that means is that I know how tricky that can be). So right now it's kind of difficult to say much, aside from "we're heading for 1.0, and here's what's stable"; in the future I do want to have more detailed documentation of Django development, but for now the combination of Django's pre-1.0 state and the need to prioritize work on Django itself over documenting Django's development makes it tricky to offer much more. That said, suggestions (and, even better, offers of time and effort from people who can sit down and work on this) are always appreciated :) [1] http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/api_stability/ -- "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Nov 9, 6:41 am, Malcolm Tredinnick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > then. It's very time consuming to go around again on this topic (in > fact, it will slow down the next release, and I gather people in this > thread want that as soon as possible). I don't think (at least hope) that people in general are slighting the amount of effort that goes into a release -- a big recurring theme seems to be though that what you keep graciously going to great lengths to repeat here isn't publicly posted in an idiot-proof manner on the site or wiki or anywhere (at least obvious enough that everyone can find it, including myself). Also since 'Roadmaps' is disabled in Trac, that usual place to look for a general overview is missing as well. Wouldn't a block on the wiki frontpage titled "Releases" or similar, just stating what you so laboriously explain to people repeatedly on this list (with the patience of a saint, frankly), that the project is currently working towards 1.0, with an unspecified date, but that trunk is generally stable, and interim releases are not scheduled for the a,b,c reasons you always explain, be a reasonable solution? Is this posted somewhere that I'm blindly missing? If so, apologies, but it would seem I'm not the only blind one... and yeah, people should in theory perhaps search through list archives, but people often expect to be able to glean general release plans without drilling through 27-message long threads. cheers- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On 11-Nov-07, at 5:15 AM, James Bennett wrote: >> Is this going to coincide with the release of the django book, by any >> chance? ;) > > The book is not, never has been and never will be tied in any way to > the timing of a 1.0 release. The book's schedule has always been > independent of Django's release schedule. well, to be technically correct, the archives show that at one period of time in the past, it *was* tied to the timing of the 1.0 release. -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Nov 10, 2007 8:36 AM, David Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is this going to coincide with the release of the django book, by any > chance? ;) The book is not, never has been and never will be tied in any way to the timing of a 1.0 release. The book's schedule has always been independent of Django's release schedule. -- "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On 9 Nov 2007, at 1:58 am, Malcolm Tredinnick wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 21:17 +, kahless wrote: > [...] >> So are there any plans on releasing a 0.97 ? > > The next release will almost certainly be written as "1.0". Is this going to coincide with the release of the django book, by any chance? ;) -- David Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Nov 9, 12:41 pm, Malcolm Tredinnick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> release, remain valid. It might sound harsh, but nothing's changed since
> then. It's very time consuming to go around again on this topic (in
> fact, it will slow down the next release, and I gather people in this
> thread want that as soon as possible).
sorry for bringing this up again, as i said .. i searched the forum
but couldn't a satisfieing thread (probably i didn't search long
enough)..
i didn't want to offend you by saying that i feel like the release
could take another year.. this is just what i think, since i don't
know any status.. and looking for information about it gets me the
same results as 4 months ago ("when it's done" as i understand it ..
maybe i'm misinterpreting .. but not deliberately ;) )
thanks again for your time,
herbert
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Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
Malcolm Tredinnick napisał(a): > Finally, for everybody who feels that they really want to write > something in this thread about why there should be a 0.97, please accept > that (a) we are aiming for 1.0 and trying to read or intentionally > misread motivations into that, such as claiming it might be a year away > and every checkin requires a new release of third-party code, is > somewhere between speaking from no knowledge of the situation and > deliberately misrepresenting things and (b) this all came up about a > month ago with a similarly "can't make everybody happy resolution" in > [1]. All the arguments raised there, both for and against making a > release, remain valid. It might sound harsh, but nothing's changed since > then. It's very time consuming to go around again on this topic (in > fact, it will slow down the next release, and I gather people in this > thread want that as soon as possible). > > [1] > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users/browse_frm/thread/9cc40f9273d61e1d/1a106a5dcb0233d0 Understandable but that doesn't make me happy. Anyway, Django is not supposed to make me a happy man, just to make my life of software developer a bit less boring. ;) -- Jarek Zgoda Skype: jzgoda | GTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | voice: +48228430101 "We read Knuth so you don't have to." (Tim Peters) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Nov 9, 2007 11:07 AM, Jarek Zgoda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Malcolm Tredinnick napisał(a): > The next release will almost certainly be written as "1.0". > > Bad news. We have a policy to use only published versions of libraries, > so our way from 0.96.x to all sweet improvements like unicode will be > longer... Basically, the current policy means that they're doing lots of different releases - every trunk revision is a release :-( At least, that's how I see it when one app is written against r, another against r... Surely if it's stable enough to recommend to people that they just use trunk, it's stable enough to release a 0.97? Any huge issue that comes up can always be a 0.97.x. All the objections earlier also apply to people using trunk. Remco Gerlich --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
Malcolm Tredinnick napisał(a): >> So are there any plans on releasing a 0.97 ? > > The next release will almost certainly be written as "1.0". Bad news. We have a policy to use only published versions of libraries, so our way from 0.96.x to all sweet improvements like unicode will be longer... -- Jarek Zgoda Skype: jzgoda | GTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | voice: +48228430101 "We read Knuth so you don't have to." (Tim Peters) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Nov 9, 2:58 am, Malcolm Tredinnick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > work towards 1.0. Trust me on this: the maintainers want to get it out > the door as much as you do. i'm sure they do .. but my "fear" (or .. guess) is that it might be more important to be bug-free and stable for such a big milestone as a 1.0 release (especially if the promise is that it should be API-stable afterwards), that there won't be one for another year .. anyway, thanks for your responses, i'll simply recommend everyone to use the trunk version as long as there is no new django release .. cu, herbert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 21:17 +, kahless wrote: [...] > So are there any plans on releasing a 0.97 ? The next release will almost certainly be written as "1.0". Making releases isn't a trivial thing. Along with the stabilisation period prior to a release, there's the implicit "end-of-life" impact on older releases: 0.91 would no longer be in the security updates path. 0.96 users would no longer get the benefit of "new in development version" markers in the documentation (which is how a 0.96 user can tell that the next bit of documentation doesn't apply to them, but they can otherwise use the current documentation, with all the updates and fixes it includes). Everybody has to think about doing the upgrade dance. It's a lot of work to make a release and has wide impact, both good and bad. So we're focusing on making 1.0 the next "big impact" point. Yes, it's not always going to be convenient for people as the gap between the last release and trunk gets ever-wider. That's a problem on every project. If you want to release stuff that works for everybody in circumstances like that, you're unfortunately going to have to think about having two versions for a while. Developing software has these sorts of problems. We all realise that and there's no solution that suits everybody. Bear with us for a bit as we work towards 1.0. Trust me on this: the maintainers want to get it out the door as much as you do. Regards, Malcolm -- For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism. http://www.pointy-stick.com/blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
> as far as i understand it, django applications are ment to be > pluggable.. how big are the odds that you'll find two applications > which would work with the same django trunk revision ? I didn't mean that your app would stop working at all on any other revisions. Just that you can "officially certify" that it's known to work with a certain revision (that you've had a chance to test). Your users can still use it with future revisions (see below for more thoughts on this.) > SCT is not (just) meant as a final product which runs separately, but > as applications which can be integrated into a django project.. i > can't force people to use a given revision .. having a release which > holds for 2-4 months would make things easier imho .. Not every new trunk commit creates a backward incompability problem. Furthermore, there are around 4 changes a month that are backward- incompatible (based on the list here: http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/BackwardsIncompatibleChanges) and not all of them affect everyone who's using a trunk release. As an example, the change from FloatField to DecimalField in trunk revision 5302 would only prevent your app from working if your app has models that use that field. Perhaps, you want to consult with other app writers (django-tagging, django-voting, registration, etc.) and see how they handle this issue. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
On Nov 8, 10:53 pm, RajeshD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I understand the concern, but how does having a 0.97 release change > this for you? There would still be potentially backwards-incompatible > changes moving forward from 0.97 to the next official release. of course there will be backwards-incompatible changes afterwards .. but it would be much easier to keep up with those.. or support both.. i'm not sure when 0.96 was released, but probably >7 months ago .. if there would be an 0.97 release i could create a SCT release and probably stay compatible with django for a couple of months .. > If you just want to be able to announce which snapshot of the Django > trunk your application supports, you could point to the svn release > number (e.g. app supports Django trunk svn release #6650 and that > future releases are not guaranteed to work.) as far as i understand it, django applications are ment to be pluggable.. how big are the odds that you'll find two applications which would work with the same django trunk revision ? SCT is not (just) meant as a final product which runs separately, but as applications which can be integrated into a django project.. i can't force people to use a given revision .. having a release which holds for 2-4 months would make things easier imho .. cu, herbert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
> > So are there any plans on releasing a 0.97 ? I hope you understand my > concerns - django is really great and the trunk is stable but I understand the concern, but how does having a 0.97 release change this for you? There would still be potentially backwards-incompatible changes moving forward from 0.97 to the next official release. If you just want to be able to announce which snapshot of the Django trunk your application supports, you could point to the svn release number (e.g. app supports Django trunk svn release #6650 and that future releases are not guaranteed to work.) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Will there be a django 0.97 release ?
Hi, Sorry if these questions are getting boring since everyone wants to know when the next release (and 1.0) is released .. but i haven't found a answer by searching the forums... After so many backward incompatible changes it would be really nice if there would be a new django release. I want people to use my project (SCT: Sphene Community Tools) but i'm not able to keep up two versions and backport all new features.. it is kind of understandable that not everyone wants to use the latest trunk just to use SCT... (There are currently many problems - i managed to keep up with the newforms clean_data vs. cleaned_data change, but with dozen of other changes and new features i really want/need to use i gave up to support the latest django release.. I'm not asking that there are fewer API changes in django or whatever, just that there is a reasonable django release i can make SCT compatible with.) So are there any plans on releasing a 0.97 ? I hope you understand my concerns - django is really great and the trunk is stable but 1.) there are many users who don't want to use the latest development version from the trunk (or are too lazy to install a svn client - most of the times it is faster to simply click a download url) 2.) i can't create releases for my own software.. it would be ridiculous to create a release which has a dependency on 'the latest development version' .. since this dependency can break every time someone commits something into the django trunk.. thanks & cu, herbert http://sct.sphene.net --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
