Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi Karl, On 5/13/22 03:22, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 5/12/22 15:23, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: On May 12, 2022 9:44:39 PM GMT+02:00, Fred wrote: I don't use a DE, just openbox and xterm. The regular scroll wheel mouse works correctly in both xev and the application. Button 2 is identified as 2 so I contend it has to have something to do with program(s) run to use the serial mouse. xmodmap -pp shows the buttons mapped correctly with both mice. The Xorg.log file has entries for USB Optical Mouse, Mouse Systems mouse and Sun mouse (when I gave that protocol to inputattach and gpm) but nothing about mouse buttons. Then I'm more or less at loss what to do, save make an adapter for my sun mouse try it at home. If you are willing to work on it I can send you my adapter. I can easily make another one. I assume you are in Sweden. You could send a mailing address off-list. Best regards, Fred ... There's just one question itching me for a little while now: Is it possible, that this old mouse simply has some physical issue, triggered by using button 2? And if so, what would be the best way to prove it? He has already proven it. No, the mouse is fine. I have an application that I have used for 20 years running on Solaris 2.6. The Sun is retired but I still need the application. I was able to get it to compile and run happily on Devuan Beowulf and it works fine with the standard pc scroll wheel mouse. The program makes extensive use of the middle button which is a pain with the pc mouse. I would like to continue using the Sun three button mouse which works except the middle button. I have studied the output of the mouse with an oscilloscope and software and it is working exactly as a Mouse Systems mouse. There is some defugalty in getting the middle button information into user programs. Maybe a bug somewhere? There have been some changes over the years, e.g. xlib replaced by xcb. This might not be related, but this little test program didn't work (segfault) with devuan/debian libXt but it workes fine in gentoo: http://aspodata.se/computing/librnd_motif/Shell_Size_Constraint/ it also workes fine in debian woody and when rebuilding libXt in previous devuan version, so it might be something shady in current devuan/debian libxt. If this is really important to you, you could try to . rebuild libxt . install another distro, eg. gentoo . try an older version of debian, e.g. potato, woody or sarge Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: > On 5/12/22 15:23, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > > On May 12, 2022 9:44:39 PM GMT+02:00, Fred wrote: > >> I don't use a DE, just openbox and xterm. The regular scroll wheel > >> mouse works correctly in both xev and the application. Button 2 is > >> identified as 2 so I contend it has to have something to do with > >> program(s) run to use the serial mouse. > >> > >> xmodmap -pp shows the buttons mapped correctly with both mice. > >> > >> The Xorg.log file has entries for USB Optical Mouse, Mouse Systems > >> mouse and Sun mouse (when I gave that protocol to inputattach and > >> gpm) but nothing about mouse buttons. Then I'm more or less at loss what to do, save make an adapter for my sun mouse try it at home. ... > > There's just one question itching me for a > > little while now: Is it possible, that this > > old mouse simply has some physical > > issue, triggered by using button 2? > > > > And if so, what would be the best way to > > prove it? He has already proven it. > No, the mouse is fine. I have an application that I have used for 20 > years running on Solaris 2.6. The Sun is retired but I still need the > application. I was able to get it to compile and run happily on Devuan > Beowulf and it works fine with the standard pc scroll wheel mouse. The > program makes extensive use of the middle button which is a pain with > the pc mouse. I would like to continue using the Sun three button mouse > which works except the middle button. I have studied the output of the > mouse with an oscilloscope and software and it is working exactly as a > Mouse Systems mouse. There is some defugalty in getting the middle > button information into user programs. Maybe a bug somewhere? There have been some changes over the years, e.g. xlib replaced by xcb. This might not be related, but this little test program didn't work (segfault) with devuan/debian libXt but it workes fine in gentoo: http://aspodata.se/computing/librnd_motif/Shell_Size_Constraint/ it also workes fine in debian woody and when rebuilding libXt in previous devuan version, so it might be something shady in current devuan/debian libxt. If this is really important to you, you could try to . rebuild libxt . install another distro, eg. gentoo . try an older version of debian, e.g. potato, woody or sarge Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 5/12/22 15:23, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: On May 12, 2022 9:44:39 PM GMT+02:00, Fred wrote: Hi Karl, I don't use a DE, just openbox and xterm. The regular scroll wheel mouse works correctly in both xev and the application. Button 2 is identified as 2 so I contend it has to have something to do with program(s) run to use the serial mouse. xmodmap -pp shows the buttons mapped correctly with both mice. The Xorg.log file has entries for USB Optical Mouse, Mouse Systems mouse and Sun mouse (when I gave that protocol to inputattach and gpm) but nothing about mouse buttons. Best regards, Fred A very interesting thread, never have I been so close to hardware! There's just one question itching me for a little while now: Is it possible, that this old mouse simply has some physical issue, triggered by using button 2? And if so, what would be the best way to prove it? libre Grüße, Florian Hi Florian, No, the mouse is fine. I have an application that I have used for 20 years running on Solaris 2.6. The Sun is retired but I still need the application. I was able to get it to compile and run happily on Devuan Beowulf and it works fine with the standard pc scroll wheel mouse. The program makes extensive use of the middle button which is a pain with the pc mouse. I would like to continue using the Sun three button mouse which works except the middle button. I have studied the output of the mouse with an oscilloscope and software and it is working exactly as a Mouse Systems mouse. There is some defugalty in getting the middle button information into user programs. Maybe a bug somewhere? Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On May 12, 2022 9:44:39 PM GMT+02:00, Fred wrote: > Hi Karl, > I don't use a DE, just openbox and xterm. The regular scroll wheel mouse > works correctly in both xev and the application. Button 2 is identified as 2 > so I contend it has to have something to do with program(s) run to use the > serial mouse. > > xmodmap -pp shows the buttons mapped correctly with both mice. > > The Xorg.log file has entries for USB Optical Mouse, Mouse Systems mouse and > Sun mouse (when I gave that protocol to inputattach and gpm) but nothing > about mouse buttons. > Best regards, > Fred A very interesting thread, never have I been so close to hardware! There's just one question itching me for a little while now: Is it possible, that this old mouse simply has some physical issue, triggered by using button 2? And if so, what would be the best way to prove it? libre Grüße, Florian -- [message sent otg] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 5/12/22 03:15, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... With xev, buttons 1 and 3 are correctly identified but the middle button is randomly assigned 4,5,6 or 7. Possibly this is the problem as I know the application is expecting button 2. Maybe it is the desktop environment or the window manager that messes this up. Try installing and using fvwm1 or something of similar age instead of what you are using currently and do the same test, or if you know how, run bare Xorg. /// It can also be the xserver config if you happens to have a xorg.conf that is picked up by X. Configs like buttonmapping and things related to emulateweel can mess this up. Look in man evdev (or man mousedrv). Look in your X11 log file for clues: $ man xorg | grep -A8 ' -logfile' -logfile filename Use the file called filename as the Xorg server log file. The default log file when running as root is /var/log/Xorg.n.log and for non root it is $XDG_DATA_HOME/xorg/Xorg.n.log where n is the display number of the Xorg server. The default may be in a different directory on some platforms. This option is only available when the server is run as root (i.e, with real- uid 0). Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi Karl, I don't use a DE, just openbox and xterm. The regular scroll wheel mouse works correctly in both xev and the application. Button 2 is identified as 2 so I contend it has to have something to do with program(s) run to use the serial mouse. xmodmap -pp shows the buttons mapped correctly with both mice. The Xorg.log file has entries for USB Optical Mouse, Mouse Systems mouse and Sun mouse (when I gave that protocol to inputattach and gpm) but nothing about mouse buttons. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > With xev, buttons 1 and 3 are correctly identified but the middle button > is randomly assigned 4,5,6 or 7. Possibly this is the problem as I know > the application is expecting button 2. Maybe it is the desktop environment or the window manager that messes this up. Try installing and using fvwm1 or something of similar age instead of what you are using currently and do the same test, or if you know how, run bare Xorg. /// It can also be the xserver config if you happens to have a xorg.conf that is picked up by X. Configs like buttonmapping and things related to emulateweel can mess this up. Look in man evdev (or man mousedrv). Look in your X11 log file for clues: $ man xorg | grep -A8 ' -logfile' -logfile filename Use the file called filename as the Xorg server log file. The default log file when running as root is /var/log/Xorg.n.log and for non root it is $XDG_DATA_HOME/xorg/Xorg.n.log where n is the display number of the Xorg server. The default may be in a different directory on some platforms. This option is only available when the server is run as root (i.e, with real- uid 0). Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
To find out what's behind which /dev/input/event* device, and generally what's going on with the input stuff on the kernel side, I usually check: "cat /proc/bus/input/devices" ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi Karl, On 5/11/22 08:23, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 5/11/22 05:02, k...@aspodata.se wrote: You should be able to do lsinput from input-utils package to see which /dev/input/inputX file your mouse's byte stream transformed as events would appear. And then run input-events X to see the events. E.g.: # lsinput | tail open /dev/input/event11: No such device or address /dev/input/event10 bustype : BUS_I8042 vendor : 0x2 product : 0xa version : 0 name: "TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint" phys: "isa0060/serio1/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) Why did you pick event10? Because that where the mouse is as shown by the lsinput output. I have event0 to 21 also mice and mouse0 in that directory. The reason I asked is that when I ran your command line I got one paragraph with the name"ALSA". My mouse is tied to event0 whether pc mouse or Sun. Run lsinput and choose. Here ia another example: # modprobe sermouse # ./inputattach --daemon --mouseman /dev/ttyS0 # tail -2 /var/log/all May 11 15:01:30 zoisit user.info kernel: [15477.331554] input: Logitech M+ Mouse as /devices/pnp0/00:01/tty/ttyS0/serio3/input/input19 May 11 15:01:30 zoisit user.info kernel: [15477.332229] serio: Serial port ttyS0 # lsinput | tail open /dev/input/event18: No such device or address /dev/input/event17 bustype : BUS_RS232 vendor : 0x4 product : 0x1 version : 256 name: "Logitech M+ Mouse" phys: "ttyS0/serio0/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) # input-events 17 /dev/input/event17 bustype : BUS_RS232 vendor : 0x4 product : 0x1 version : 256 name: "Logitech M+ Mouse" phys: "ttyS0/serio0/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) waiting for events 15:13:30.888773: (null) ??? (0x112) pressed 15:13:30.888773: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:32.998688: (null) ??? -1 15:13:32.998688: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.061029: (null) ??? -1 15:13:33.061029: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.560736: (null) ??? 1 15:13:33.560736: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.583775: (null) ??? 3 15:13:33.583775: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.591262: (null) ??? 3 15:13:33.591262: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.614295: (null) ??? 1 15:13:33.614295: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.621787: (null) ??? 2 15:13:33.621787: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:34.191695: (null) ??? 1 15:13:34.191695: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:34.302401: (null) ??? 1 15:13:34.302401: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:34.553504: (null) ??? (0x112) released 15:13:34.553504: (null) code=0 value=0 ... Here above we can see the middle button pressed, the mouse moved, and the button released. input-events produces essentially the same as you show. All three buttons work similarly. I think we are barking up the wrong tree here. The application sees the button because the pointer freezes when it is pressed. What is missing is X and Y movement info. while the button is pressed. With the above example we can check if that is true. Another way to test this is to use xev. Start xev, move the mouse xev's window, press button, move, release, check the result: ButtonPress event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243503614, (56,88), root:(360,300), state 0x0, button 1, same_screen YES MotionNotify event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243504966, (57,88), root:(361,300), state 0x100, is_hint 0, same_screen YES MotionNotify event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243504989, (59,89), root:(363,301), state 0x100, is_hint 0, same_screen YES MotionNotify event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243505012, (60,90), root:(364,302), state 0x100, is_hint 0, same_screen YES ButtonRelease event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243505908, (60,90), root:(364,302), state 0x100, button 1, same_screen YES Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng With xev, buttons 1 and 3 are correctly identified but the middle button is randomly assigned 4,5,6 or 7. Possibly this is the problem as I know the application is expecting button 2. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: > On 5/11/22 05:02, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > > You should be able to do lsinput from input-utils package to see which > > /dev/input/inputX file your mouse's byte stream transformed as events > > would appear. And then run input-events X to see the events. E.g.: > > > > # lsinput | tail > > open /dev/input/event11: No such device or address > > > > /dev/input/event10 > > bustype : BUS_I8042 > > vendor : 0x2 > > product : 0xa > > version : 0 > > name: "TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint" > > phys: "isa0060/serio1/input0" > > bits ev : (null) (null) (null) > Why did you pick event10? Because that where the mouse is as shown by the lsinput output. > I have event0 to 21 also mice and mouse0 in that directory. Run lsinput and choose. Here ia another example: # modprobe sermouse # ./inputattach --daemon --mouseman /dev/ttyS0 # tail -2 /var/log/all May 11 15:01:30 zoisit user.info kernel: [15477.331554] input: Logitech M+ Mouse as /devices/pnp0/00:01/tty/ttyS0/serio3/input/input19 May 11 15:01:30 zoisit user.info kernel: [15477.332229] serio: Serial port ttyS0 # lsinput | tail open /dev/input/event18: No such device or address /dev/input/event17 bustype : BUS_RS232 vendor : 0x4 product : 0x1 version : 256 name: "Logitech M+ Mouse" phys: "ttyS0/serio0/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) # input-events 17 /dev/input/event17 bustype : BUS_RS232 vendor : 0x4 product : 0x1 version : 256 name: "Logitech M+ Mouse" phys: "ttyS0/serio0/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) waiting for events 15:13:30.888773: (null) ??? (0x112) pressed 15:13:30.888773: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:32.998688: (null) ??? -1 15:13:32.998688: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.061029: (null) ??? -1 15:13:33.061029: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.560736: (null) ??? 1 15:13:33.560736: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.583775: (null) ??? 3 15:13:33.583775: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.591262: (null) ??? 3 15:13:33.591262: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.614295: (null) ??? 1 15:13:33.614295: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:33.621787: (null) ??? 2 15:13:33.621787: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:34.191695: (null) ??? 1 15:13:34.191695: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:34.302401: (null) ??? 1 15:13:34.302401: (null) code=0 value=0 15:13:34.553504: (null) ??? (0x112) released 15:13:34.553504: (null) code=0 value=0 ... Here above we can see the middle button pressed, the mouse moved, and the button released. > I think we are barking up the wrong tree here. The application sees the > button because the pointer freezes when it is pressed. What is missing > is X and Y movement info. while the button is pressed. With the above example we can check if that is true. Another way to test this is to use xev. Start xev, move the mouse xev's window, press button, move, release, check the result: ButtonPress event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243503614, (56,88), root:(360,300), state 0x0, button 1, same_screen YES MotionNotify event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243504966, (57,88), root:(361,300), state 0x100, is_hint 0, same_screen YES MotionNotify event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243504989, (59,89), root:(363,301), state 0x100, is_hint 0, same_screen YES MotionNotify event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243505012, (60,90), root:(364,302), state 0x100, is_hint 0, same_screen YES ButtonRelease event, serial 33, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x4d3, subw 0x0, time 243505908, (60,90), root:(364,302), state 0x100, button 1, same_screen YES Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi Karl, On 5/11/22 05:02, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... The Sun Compact 1 three button mouse is 1200 baud, 8 data bits, no parity and sends 5 bytes in Mouse Systems protocol. Byte 0 is button info. exactly the same as msc. Byte 1 is 8 bit signed X movement. Byte 2 is 8 bit signed Y movement. Bytes 3, 4 are zero. That fits the Mousesystems protocol as described in man mouse. ... The problem seems to be that movement info. is not being sent or is incorrect when the middle button is down. The inputattach program appears to be decoding the mouse protocol so I think that is where the problem is. I am not a C programmer so I can't determine what is wrong. ... If I look at utils/inputattach.c from https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/latest/download inputattach does . option handling . sets the line discipline: ldisc = N_MOUSE; if (ioctl(fd, TIOCSETD, &ldisc) < 0) { . sets the device type (e.g. it's a MSC mouse) ioctl(fd, SPIOCSTYPE, &devt) . goes into the background (daemon()) . stays there just emptying the input buffer of the serial port So, inputattach does not decode the byte stream from the mouse. Instead it seems that the kernels drivers/input/mouse/sermouse.c does that. Look in the static void sermouse_process_msc(struct sermouse *sermouse, signed char data) function. So... the "input" way is too buggy. Why not consider the deprecated X11 mouse driver. /// You should be able to do lsinput from input-utils package to see which /dev/input/inputX file your mouse's byte stream transformed as events would appear. And then run input-events X to see the events. E.g.: # lsinput | tail open /dev/input/event11: No such device or address /dev/input/event10 bustype : BUS_I8042 vendor : 0x2 product : 0xa version : 0 name: "TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint" phys: "isa0060/serio1/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) Why did you pick event10? I have event0 to 21 also mice and mouse0 in that directory. # input-events -t 100 10 /dev/input/event10 bustype : BUS_I8042 vendor : 0x2 product : 0xa version : 0 name: "TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint" phys: "isa0060/serio1/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) waiting for events 11:58:57.217543: (null) ??? (0x110) pressed 11:58:57.217543: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:57.356137: (null) ??? (0x110) released 11:58:57.356137: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.084678: (null) ??? (0x112) pressed 11:58:59.084678: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.225056: (null) ??? (0x112) released 11:58:59.225056: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.613730: (null) ??? (0x111) pressed 11:58:59.613730: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.689984: (null) ??? (0x111) released 11:58:59.689984: (null) code=0 value=0 ^C # Where I pressed the left, middle and lastly right button on my laptop. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I think we are barking up the wrong tree here. The application sees the button because the pointer freezes when it is pressed. What is missing is X and Y movement info. while the button is pressed. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > The Sun Compact 1 three button mouse is 1200 baud, 8 data bits, no > parity and sends 5 bytes in Mouse Systems protocol. Byte 0 is button > info. exactly the same as msc. Byte 1 is 8 bit signed X movement. Byte > 2 is 8 bit signed Y movement. Bytes 3, 4 are zero. That fits the Mousesystems protocol as described in man mouse. ... > The problem seems to be that movement info. is not being sent or is > incorrect when the middle button is down. The inputattach program > appears to be decoding the mouse protocol so I think that is where the > problem is. I am not a C programmer so I can't determine what is wrong. ... If I look at utils/inputattach.c from https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/latest/download inputattach does . option handling . sets the line discipline: ldisc = N_MOUSE; if (ioctl(fd, TIOCSETD, &ldisc) < 0) { . sets the device type (e.g. it's a MSC mouse) ioctl(fd, SPIOCSTYPE, &devt) . goes into the background (daemon()) . stays there just emptying the input buffer of the serial port So, inputattach does not decode the byte stream from the mouse. Instead it seems that the kernels drivers/input/mouse/sermouse.c does that. Look in the static void sermouse_process_msc(struct sermouse *sermouse, signed char data) function. So... the "input" way is too buggy. Why not consider the deprecated X11 mouse driver. /// You should be able to do lsinput from input-utils package to see which /dev/input/inputX file your mouse's byte stream transformed as events would appear. And then run input-events X to see the events. E.g.: # lsinput | tail open /dev/input/event11: No such device or address /dev/input/event10 bustype : BUS_I8042 vendor : 0x2 product : 0xa version : 0 name: "TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint" phys: "isa0060/serio1/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) # input-events -t 100 10 /dev/input/event10 bustype : BUS_I8042 vendor : 0x2 product : 0xa version : 0 name: "TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint" phys: "isa0060/serio1/input0" bits ev : (null) (null) (null) waiting for events 11:58:57.217543: (null) ??? (0x110) pressed 11:58:57.217543: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:57.356137: (null) ??? (0x110) released 11:58:57.356137: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.084678: (null) ??? (0x112) pressed 11:58:59.084678: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.225056: (null) ??? (0x112) released 11:58:59.225056: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.613730: (null) ??? (0x111) pressed 11:58:59.613730: (null) code=0 value=0 11:58:59.689984: (null) ??? (0x111) released 11:58:59.689984: (null) code=0 value=0 ^C # Where I pressed the left, middle and lastly right button on my laptop. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/27/22 15:40, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... In spare time I am building a board to convert mouse output to RS232. I did research on this in 2011. I found a program I wrote (for embedded controller) to watch serial port and show mouse bytes on lcd. I don't know yet if it was finished or works. Viewing the mouse output with an oscilloscope shows it is definitely 1200 baud and appears to be 8 data bits odd parity and one stop bit. The mouse is sending 5 bytes. I made a program that "spied" on a serial port, reporting all bytes coming in and out from a serial port. It worked by using pty's. It has seen some bitrot, but perhaps I can shape it up during the summer. In the meantime, you could watch the input bytes by doing # stty -F /dev/ttyS4 1200 cs8 raw # cat /dev/ttyS4 | od -t x1 # and then move the mouse 000 40 01 00 4c 3d 4c 05 3f 4c 04 3f 02 3f 40 00 01 020 40 01 01 40 02 03 40 02 40 03 40 00 04 43 3d 06 040 43 3c 06 43 3b 06 43 3b 04 43 3d 01 40 00 01 43 060 3f 00 4f 3f 3f 4f 3f 3f 4f 3e 3f 4f 3f 3c 3d 4f 100 3b 4f 3d 4f 3f 4c 00 3f 4c 00 3f 4c 01 3f 4c 01 ^C # cat /dev/ttyS4 | od -t x1 # pressing the right button 000 40 00 50 00 00 40 00 00 50 00 40 00 50 00 40 00 020 50 00 00 40 00 00 50 00 40 00 00 50 00 40 00 50 ^C # cat /dev/ttyS4 | od -t x1 # pressing the left button 000 60 00 40 00 00 60 00 40 00 00 60 00 00 40 00 60 020 00 40 00 00 60 00 40 00 00 60 00 40 00 60 00 40 ^C od waits to fill one line before it writes out anything. Descriptions of mouse protocols are available here: https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse477/00sp/projectwebs/groupb/PS2-mouse/mouse.html https://www.kryslix.com/nsfaq/Q.12.html man mouse I tried gpm again in a VT. The left button highlights a single character or lines. The right button highlights lines from the last left button click. The middle button prints the character that was under the cursor at last left button click. $ man gpm ... OPERATION To select text press the left mouse button and drag the mouse. To paste text in the same or another console, press the middle button. The right button is used to extend the selection, like in `xterm'. Soo, it works as adverticed above ? Then the problem is that the input subsystem is doing the wrong things (i.e. in the kernel git repo, drivers/input/mouse/sermouse.c needs some fix) or it is been set up wrongly. I think inputattach is actually doing what it is supposed to do but is telling the application something different from what the standard scroll wheel pc mouse does. inputattach is just setting up the kernel to read and translate the mouse packets. The packets then appear somewhere at /dev/input/ which X11 reads. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi, The Sun Compact 1 three button mouse is 1200 baud, 8 data bits, no parity and sends 5 bytes in Mouse Systems protocol. Byte 0 is button info. exactly the same as msc. Byte 1 is 8 bit signed X movement. Byte 2 is 8 bit signed Y movement. Bytes 3, 4 are zero. In the application I need to use the Sun mouse, the PC mouse works correctly in that with the middle button down objects can be moved around. With the Sun mouse the pointer freezes with the middle button down. In nedit, with the PC mouse pointer on the scroll thingy on the side the text smooth scrolls. With the Sun mouse the text jump scrolls one line at a time. The problem seems to be that movement info. is not being sent or is incorrect when the middle button is down. The inputattach program appears to be decoding the mouse protocol so I think that is where the problem is. I am not a C programmer so I can't determine what is wrong. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > In spare time I am building a board to convert mouse output to RS232. I > did research on this in 2011. I found a program I wrote (for embedded > controller) to watch serial port and show mouse bytes on lcd. I don't > know yet if it was finished or works. Viewing the mouse output with an > oscilloscope shows it is definitely 1200 baud and appears to be 8 data > bits odd parity and one stop bit. The mouse is sending 5 bytes. I made a program that "spied" on a serial port, reporting all bytes coming in and out from a serial port. It worked by using pty's. It has seen some bitrot, but perhaps I can shape it up during the summer. In the meantime, you could watch the input bytes by doing # stty -F /dev/ttyS4 1200 cs8 raw # cat /dev/ttyS4 | od -t x1 # and then move the mouse 000 40 01 00 4c 3d 4c 05 3f 4c 04 3f 02 3f 40 00 01 020 40 01 01 40 02 03 40 02 40 03 40 00 04 43 3d 06 040 43 3c 06 43 3b 06 43 3b 04 43 3d 01 40 00 01 43 060 3f 00 4f 3f 3f 4f 3f 3f 4f 3e 3f 4f 3f 3c 3d 4f 100 3b 4f 3d 4f 3f 4c 00 3f 4c 00 3f 4c 01 3f 4c 01 ^C # cat /dev/ttyS4 | od -t x1 # pressing the right button 000 40 00 50 00 00 40 00 00 50 00 40 00 50 00 40 00 020 50 00 00 40 00 00 50 00 40 00 00 50 00 40 00 50 ^C # cat /dev/ttyS4 | od -t x1 # pressing the left button 000 60 00 40 00 00 60 00 40 00 00 60 00 00 40 00 60 020 00 40 00 00 60 00 40 00 00 60 00 40 00 60 00 40 ^C od waits to fill one line before it writes out anything. Descriptions of mouse protocols are available here: https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse477/00sp/projectwebs/groupb/PS2-mouse/mouse.html https://www.kryslix.com/nsfaq/Q.12.html man mouse > I tried gpm again in a VT. The left button highlights a single > character or lines. The right button highlights lines from the last > left button click. The middle button prints the character that was > under the cursor at last left button click. $ man gpm ... OPERATION To select text press the left mouse button and drag the mouse. To paste text in the same or another console, press the middle button. The right button is used to extend the selection, like in `xterm'. Soo, it works as adverticed above ? Then the problem is that the input subsystem is doing the wrong things (i.e. in the kernel git repo, drivers/input/mouse/sermouse.c needs some fix) or it is been set up wrongly. > I think inputattach is actually doing what it is supposed to do but is > telling the application something different from what the standard > scroll wheel pc mouse does. inputattach is just setting up the kernel to read and translate the mouse packets. The packets then appear somewhere at /dev/input/ which X11 reads. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi Karl, On 4/25/22 15:09, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 4/25/22 10:17, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... I am using the DLP-TXRX-G usb/serial adapter with a transistor to invert the mouse output. The mouse has an active high output and the dlp rx input is active low. This one: http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/txrx.php seems to be ttl, not rs232 levels/signals. I forgot to say in the previous message that x and y movement and buttons 1 and 3 all work normally. Only the middle button doesn't work. Well, half a victory! I have some hardware that would be fairly easy to have read in the mouse signals and display the bytes. I will do this over the next few days and it should be possible to determine the exact protocol. Nice. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I tried inputattach with the sun protocol and the results were the same, pointer freeze with button2 down. In spare time I am building a board to convert mouse output to RS232. I did research on this in 2011. I found a program I wrote (for embedded controller) to watch serial port and show mouse bytes on lcd. I don't know yet if it was finished or works. Viewing the mouse output with an oscilloscope shows it is definitely 1200 baud and appears to be 8 data bits odd parity and one stop bit. The mouse is sending 5 bytes. I tried gpm again in a VT. The left button highlights a single character or lines. The right button highlights lines from the last left button click. The middle button prints the character that was under the cursor at last left button click. I think inputattach is actually doing what it is supposed to do but is telling the application something different from what the standard scroll wheel pc mouse does. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: > On 4/25/22 10:17, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... > I am using the DLP-TXRX-G usb/serial adapter with a transistor to invert > the mouse output. The mouse has an active high output and the dlp rx > input is active low. This one: http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/txrx.php seems to be ttl, not rs232 levels/signals. > I forgot to say in the previous message that x and y movement and > buttons 1 and 3 all work normally. Only the middle button doesn't work. Well, half a victory! > I have some hardware that would be fairly easy to have read in the mouse > signals and display the bytes. I will do this over the next few days > and it should be possible to determine the exact protocol. Nice. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/25/22 10:17, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... I ran gpm-mouse-test again. That program seems to have major problems. It can't even detect the baud rate which I know to be 1200. ... I tested it here and it succesfully detected my MouseMan at 1200baud. It can be that your serial to usb converter confuses the program because usb delivers bytes in a different way, in packets, not one byte at a time. I might make a din-8 (aka sun mouse if.) to rs232 converter within the month. If so I'll report back to you. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi Karl, I am using the DLP-TXRX-G usb/serial adapter with a transistor to invert the mouse output. The mouse has an active high output and the dlp rx input is active low. I forgot to say in the previous message that x and y movement and buttons 1 and 3 all work normally. Only the middle button doesn't work. I have some hardware that would be fairly easy to have read in the mouse signals and display the bytes. I will do this over the next few days and it should be possible to determine the exact protocol. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/25/22 10:17, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Nick: On 25-04-2022 16:20, Fred wrote: ... The compile went ok. I used command line: inputattach --daemon --baud 1200 -msc /dev/ttyUSB0 It accepted the baud rate option this time however the middle button still does not work. The pointer freezes when the middle button is down. So, everything works, except the middle button ? Just checking, is this one in the kernel: # grep MOUSE_SERIAL /boot/config-`uname -r` CONFIG_MOUSE_SERIAL=y The response is: CONFIG_MOUSE_SERIAL=m If done as a module, you need to modprobe sermouse This produced no response. I ran gpm-mouse-test again. That program seems to have major problems. It can't even detect the baud rate which I know to be 1200. ... Forget about that program then, it doesn't help you. Looking at inputattach man page could you give the option *-ms*,*--mshack* 3-button mouse in Microsoft mode. a try? Cannot say much about that, but there is a -sun variant also. You have to try around. I will try the sun protocol later today and maybe a few others. I am not good a guessing games. /// If you cannot make inputattach to work, you can . go for the old mouse driver and edit xorg.conf . reverse engineer the protocol used and make code to handle that Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > I ran gpm-mouse-test again. That program seems to have major > problems. It can't even detect the baud rate which I know to be 1200. ... I tested it here and it succesfully detected my MouseMan at 1200baud. It can be that your serial to usb converter confuses the program because usb delivers bytes in a different way, in packets, not one byte at a time. I might make a din-8 (aka sun mouse if.) to rs232 converter within the month. If so I'll report back to you. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Nick: > On 25-04-2022 16:20, Fred wrote: ... > > The compile went ok. I used command line: > > inputattach --daemon --baud 1200 -msc /dev/ttyUSB0 > > It accepted the baud rate option this time however the middle button > > still does not work. The pointer freezes when the middle button is > > down. So, everything works, except the middle button ? Just checking, is this one in the kernel: # grep MOUSE_SERIAL /boot/config-`uname -r` CONFIG_MOUSE_SERIAL=y If done as a module, you need to modprobe sermouse > > I ran gpm-mouse-test again. That program seems to have major > > problems. It can't even detect the baud rate which I know to be 1200. ... Forget about that program then, it doesn't help you. > Looking at inputattach man page could you give the option > > *-ms*,*--mshack* > 3-button mouse in Microsoft mode. > > a try? Cannot say much about that, but there is a -sun variant also. You have to try around. /// If you cannot make inputattach to work, you can . go for the old mouse driver and edit xorg.conf . reverse engineer the protocol used and make code to handle that Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 25-04-2022 16:20, Fred wrote: On 4/25/22 02:39, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... The compile fails because SDL.h can't be found. Package sd12 was not found in the pkg-config search path. It also mentions adding directory containing sd12.pc to the PKG-CONFIG_PATH environment variable. To find which package a missing file belongs to, do: # apt-get install apt-file $ apt-file search SDL.h $ apt-file search sdl2.h /// I get: $ apt-file -x search /SDL.h$ libsdl1.2-dev: /usr/include/SDL/SDL.h libsdl2-dev: /usr/include/SDL2/SDL.h $ apt-file search /sdl2.pc libsdl2-dev: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/sdl2.pc So, the above problem is solved by installing libsdl2-dev. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi Karl, The compile went ok. I used command line: inputattach --daemon --baud 1200 -msc /dev/ttyUSB0 It accepted the baud rate option this time however the middle button still does not work. The pointer freezes when the middle button is down. I ran gpm-mouse-test again. That program seems to have major problems. It can't even detect the baud rate which I know to be 1200. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi Fred, Looking at inputattach man page could you give the option *-ms*,*--mshack* 3-button mouse in Microsoft mode. a try? Grtz. Nick ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/25/22 02:39, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... The compile fails because SDL.h can't be found. Package sd12 was not found in the pkg-config search path. It also mentions adding directory containing sd12.pc to the PKG-CONFIG_PATH environment variable. To find which package a missing file belongs to, do: # apt-get install apt-file $ apt-file search SDL.h $ apt-file search sdl2.h /// I get: $ apt-file -x search /SDL.h$ libsdl1.2-dev: /usr/include/SDL/SDL.h libsdl2-dev: /usr/include/SDL2/SDL.h $ apt-file search /sdl2.pc libsdl2-dev: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/sdl2.pc So, the above problem is solved by installing libsdl2-dev. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi Karl, The compile went ok. I used command line: inputattach --daemon --baud 1200 -msc /dev/ttyUSB0 It accepted the baud rate option this time however the middle button still does not work. The pointer freezes when the middle button is down. I ran gpm-mouse-test again. That program seems to have major problems. It can't even detect the baud rate which I know to be 1200. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > The compile fails because SDL.h can't be found. > Package sd12 was not found in the pkg-config search path. It also > mentions adding directory containing sd12.pc to the PKG-CONFIG_PATH > environment variable. To find which package a missing file belongs to, do: # apt-get install apt-file $ apt-file search SDL.h $ apt-file search sdl2.h /// I get: $ apt-file -x search /SDL.h$ libsdl1.2-dev: /usr/include/SDL/SDL.h libsdl2-dev: /usr/include/SDL2/SDL.h $ apt-file search /sdl2.pc libsdl2-dev: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/sdl2.pc So, the above problem is solved by installing libsdl2-dev. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/24/22 13:56, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 4/23/22 12:53, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... If so, press Ctl-Alt-F2 buttons simultaineusly to get to a console. There log in as root and then try one of gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t msc gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t sun gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t mman and move the mouse to test. This works. The msc protocol works best, the mman protocol doesn't work at all. All three buttons show some effect. Very good. ... B, try inputattach to make the mouse appear as a /dev/input/* device and be automatically included by X11, I haven't tested this. See https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Serial_input_device_to_kernel_input https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Serial_Mouse ... There is some progress. The inputattach package in Devuan apparently doesn't have a config file. Specifying the baud on the command line results in an invalid baud message. inputattach does work with the Sun mouse but the middle button doesn't work. I tried msc and sun protocol and both work the same. I may try some other protocols but I suspect a bug in inputattach. Maybe I should contact the maintainer? I have no experience with inputattach, but looking at utils/inputattach.c from https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/latest/download around line 1163: switch(baud[i]) { case -1: break; case 2400: type[i]->speed = B2400; break; case 4800: type[i]->speed = B4800; break; case 9600: type[i]->speed = B9600; break; case 19200: type[i]->speed = B19200; break; case 38400: type[i]->speed = B38400; break; case 115200: type[i]->speed = B115200; break; default: fprintf(stderr, "inputattach: invalid baud rate '%d'\n", baud[i]); return EXIT_FAILURE; } and $ grep -A2 msc inputattach.c { "--mousesystems", "-msc", "3-button Mouse Systems mouse", B1200, CS8, SERIO_MSC, 0x00, 0x01, 1, NULL }, So, yes, you found a bug. Add this before the "case 2400" line: case 1200: type[i]->speed = B1200; break; compile and test. Regards, /Karl Hammar Hi Karl, The compile fails because SDL.h can't be found. Package sd12 was not found in the pkg-config search path. It also mentions adding directory containing sd12.pc to the PKG-CONFIG_PATH environment variable. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > The middle button is being seen as the pointer won't move when it is > held down. It would appear the application is being told something > different than when the standard pc mouse is used. It is probably because you were forced to set the wron baudrate. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: > On 4/23/22 12:53, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... > > If so, press Ctl-Alt-F2 buttons simultaineusly to get to a console. > > There log in as root > > and then try one of > >gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t msc > >gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t sun > >gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t mman > > and move the mouse to test. > > > This works. The msc protocol works best, the mman protocol doesn't work > at all. All three buttons show some effect. Very good. ... > > B, try inputattach to make the mouse appear as a /dev/input/* device > > and be automatically included by X11, I haven't tested this. See > > > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Serial_input_device_to_kernel_input > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/ > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto > > https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Serial_Mouse ... > There is some progress. The inputattach package in Devuan apparently > doesn't have a config file. Specifying the baud on the command line > results in an invalid baud message. inputattach does work with the Sun > mouse but the middle button doesn't work. I tried msc and sun protocol > and both work the same. I may try some other protocols but I suspect a > bug in inputattach. Maybe I should contact the maintainer? I have no experience with inputattach, but looking at utils/inputattach.c from https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/latest/download around line 1163: switch(baud[i]) { case -1: break; case 2400: type[i]->speed = B2400; break; case 4800: type[i]->speed = B4800; break; case 9600: type[i]->speed = B9600; break; case 19200: type[i]->speed = B19200; break; case 38400: type[i]->speed = B38400; break; case 115200: type[i]->speed = B115200; break; default: fprintf(stderr, "inputattach: invalid baud rate '%d'\n", baud[i]); return EXIT_FAILURE; } and $ grep -A2 msc inputattach.c { "--mousesystems", "-msc", "3-button Mouse Systems mouse", B1200, CS8, SERIO_MSC, 0x00, 0x01, 1, NULL }, So, yes, you found a bug. Add this before the "case 2400" line: case 1200: type[i]->speed = B1200; break; compile and test. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/24/22 10:49, Fred wrote: Hi, On 4/23/22 12:53, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 4/23/22 02:34, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... So, make sure you are running in a virtual console and logged in as root, then run the gpm -b etc. thing and move the mouse around. To make the mouse to work in X11, please test the mouse with gpm in a console first to assert basic functionality, and then come back. Did you do the test above ? As long the serial port isn't opened by anything, you can let X11 and openbox be running. If so, press Ctl-Alt-F2 buttons simultaineusly to get to a console. There log in as root and then try one of gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t msc gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t sun gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t mman and move the mouse to test. This works. The msc protocol works best, the mman protocol doesn't work at all. All three buttons show some effect. A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). So, where do I go from here? You can either A, do a xorg configuration with the mouse driver man xorg.conf is your friend. B, try inputattach to make the mouse appear as a /dev/input/* device and be automatically included by X11, I haven't tested this. See https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Serial_input_device_to_kernel_input https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Serial_Mouse Regards, /Karl Hammar There is some progress. The inputattach package in Devuan apparently doesn't have a config file. Specifying the baud on the command line results in an invalid baud message. inputattach does work with the Sun mouse but the middle button doesn't work. I tried msc and sun protocol and both work the same. I may try some other protocols but I suspect a bug in inputattach. Maybe I should contact the maintainer? Best regards, Fred The middle button is being seen as the pointer won't move when it is held down. It would appear the application is being told something different than when the standard pc mouse is used. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi, On 4/23/22 12:53, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 4/23/22 02:34, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... So, make sure you are running in a virtual console and logged in as root, then run the gpm -b etc. thing and move the mouse around. To make the mouse to work in X11, please test the mouse with gpm in a console first to assert basic functionality, and then come back. Did you do the test above ? As long the serial port isn't opened by anything, you can let X11 and openbox be running. If so, press Ctl-Alt-F2 buttons simultaineusly to get to a console. There log in as root and then try one of gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t msc gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t sun gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t mman and move the mouse to test. This works. The msc protocol works best, the mman protocol doesn't work at all. All three buttons show some effect. A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). So, where do I go from here? You can either A, do a xorg configuration with the mouse driver man xorg.conf is your friend. B, try inputattach to make the mouse appear as a /dev/input/* device and be automatically included by X11, I haven't tested this. See https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Serial_input_device_to_kernel_input https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Serial_Mouse Regards, /Karl Hammar There is some progress. The inputattach package in Devuan apparently doesn't have a config file. Specifying the baud on the command line results in an invalid baud message. inputattach does work with the Sun mouse but the middle button doesn't work. I tried msc and sun protocol and both work the same. I may try some other protocols but I suspect a bug in inputattach. Maybe I should contact the maintainer? Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:11:18 +0200, Florian wrote in message <2022042328.14e36a59.f.zieb...@web.de>: > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf > > Also worth a try: > > $ man 5 xorg.conf ..also worth trying:~$ man -k xorg.conf ...and the educational: $ man -h # ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 24/4/22 13:52, aitor wrote: but enable it when using vdev. *disable* ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi Ralph, On 23/4/22 23:32, Ralph Ronnquist wrote: Then, I think the X11 system relies on udev for setting up its inputs and load the appropriate modules. You may take over that and do things "by hand" by a) making the following file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/a.conf Section "ServerFlags" Option "AutoAddDevices" "false" EndSection X11-common contains a file config/udev.c and -if i'm not mistaken- as long as the sources are built enabling CONFIG_UDEV, the above option "AutoAddDevices" is set up to true by default. On the contrary, vdev requires the following setup to get both the keyboard and mouse working: Section "ServerFlags" Option "AutoAddDevices" "off" Option "AllowEmptyInput" "on" (either "off") EndSection I don't think this configuration would work with eudev, because I guess that "AutoAddDevices" is required to carry out udev monitor's event processing (libudev-enumerate.c). On the contrary, vdev removes the netlink connection to udev, in favor of creating the underlying `udev_monitor`specific directory: * /dev/events/libudev-$PID watched by vdev's helpers for new packet events. This is the way vdev works. So, libudev-compat (vdev) connects to a netlink socket only if the name is "kernel" and removes this netlink connection if the name is "udev", because vdevd's helper scripts will send serialized device events by writing them as files (here, Jude Nelson recommends the installation of eventfs). It's because libeudev and libudev-compat work with opposing approaches, my recommendation is to not disable "AutoAddDevices" when using eudev, but enable it when using vdev. Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > I also don't like the beetle wings for buttons one and three because > I am often accidentally clicking button three. ... Yes, it is wery annoying when you accidentally press button three. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Ralph Ronnquist: ... > I think all mice are supposed to be handled by the kernel and will > then get presented at /dev/input/mice ... At some level every hardware is handled by the kernel. What you are talking about is the input subsystem. To make a serial mouse work or use the input subsystem you have to do an inputattach so the mouse attached at /dev/ttySx is available as /dev/input/mouseY. As you kan see in the kernel source/drivers/input/mouse/sermouse.c, in function static void sermouse_process_msc(struct sermouse *sermouse, signed char data) it takes the protocol and converts it to another protocol. For that function to work you need it be configured in the kernel, build in or as a module. This command should return y or m. # grep MOUSE_SERIAL /boot/config-`uname -r` CONFIG_MOUSE_SERIAL=y If done as a module, you need to modprobe sermouse After that you do the inputattach of the serial port. At this stage you need to know the protocol used, there is no autodetection. It is in a sense similar to the gpm repeater mode. > Section "ServerFlags" > Option "AutoAddDevices" "false" > EndSection I.e. either you do it all by yourself, or you use hw that can be auto detected, there is no midpoint, like auto detect gpu and monitor, but use this mouse... Yea, thanks x devs. for ditching us with unusual hw. > and b) installing xserver-xorg-input-kbd and xserver-xorg-input-mouse ... Thoose two drivers are abandoned upstream from what I heard. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > If gpm only works in a virtual terminal why do I need to continue > working with it? I don't use a virtual terminal. ... Since it is such a simple test to do, e.g. you don't have to restart the X server to try another protocol. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
> On 24 Apr 2022, at 12:23, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > > Hi, > > Antony Stone writes: > >>> On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 22:57:12, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:15:34 +0200 Antony Stone wrote: On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 21:11:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf Personally I'd have gone for: find / -name xorg.conf >>> >>> I may be wrong (and nitpicking;) - but I think that your approach is >>> less fast, as 'find' does the file name matching /before/ it continues >>> searching - in opposite to just piping its output to grep and going on >>> with running down the file system hierarchy without any interruption. >> >> Interesting - and you're right. >> >> I just tried several successive searches for a few unique filenames in a >> directory tree (all files in the same directory, just in case the position >> made >> a difference). >> >> The first search took 6 minutes and clearly set up some cache of results, >> because subsequent searches were consistently: >> >>find . | grep filename : 20 seconds >> >>find . -name filename : 25 seconds >> >> That was consistent no matter whether the two filenames were the same, or >> different but still in the same directory, and no matter which command was >> run >> first. >> >> Nice observation. > > Indeed but you must have an awful lot of files, slow disks and/or a slow > network connection. After setting up the cache on my machine, I get 0.7 > seconds for the -name approach and 0.5 seconds for grep. > That's with close to half a million filesystem entries and about 7000 of > those on an NFS backed filesystem on the NAS downstairs. The rest is on > an SSD (NVMe). > > Another point, the grep approach also lists everything below a directory > that matches, whereas the -name approach does not. That may be a lot of > extra junk to scan through depending on what you're looking for. > That's also why I suggested redirecting errors to /dev/null when looking > for stuff below / as a normal user ;-) > > Hope this helps, > -- > Olaf Meeuwissen How does this speed compare to mlocate or whatever is the preferred version of locate database these days? -- Tom ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi, Antony Stone writes: > On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 22:57:12, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:15:34 +0200 Antony Stone wrote: >> > On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 21:11:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: >> > >> > > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with >> > > >> > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf >> > >> > Personally I'd have gone for: >> >find / -name xorg.conf >> >> I may be wrong (and nitpicking;) - but I think that your approach is >> less fast, as 'find' does the file name matching /before/ it continues >> searching - in opposite to just piping its output to grep and going on >> with running down the file system hierarchy without any interruption. > > Interesting - and you're right. > > I just tried several successive searches for a few unique filenames in a > directory tree (all files in the same directory, just in case the position > made > a difference). > > The first search took 6 minutes and clearly set up some cache of results, > because subsequent searches were consistently: > > find . | grep filename : 20 seconds > > find . -name filename : 25 seconds > > That was consistent no matter whether the two filenames were the same, or > different but still in the same directory, and no matter which command was run > first. > > Nice observation. Indeed but you must have an awful lot of files, slow disks and/or a slow network connection. After setting up the cache on my machine, I get 0.7 seconds for the -name approach and 0.5 seconds for grep. That's with close to half a million filesystem entries and about 7000 of those on an NFS backed filesystem on the NAS downstairs. The rest is on an SSD (NVMe). Another point, the grep approach also lists everything below a directory that matches, whereas the -name approach does not. That may be a lot of extra junk to scan through depending on what you're looking for. That's also why I suggested redirecting errors to /dev/null when looking for stuff below / as a normal user ;-) Hope this helps, -- Olaf MeeuwissenFSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/23/22 12:53, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 4/23/22 02:34, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... So, make sure you are running in a virtual console and logged in as root, then run the gpm -b etc. thing and move the mouse around. To make the mouse to work in X11, please test the mouse with gpm in a console first to assert basic functionality, and then come back. Did you do the test above ? As long the serial port isn't opened by anything, you can let X11 and openbox be running. If so, press Ctl-Alt-F2 buttons simultaineusly to get to a console. There log in as root and then try one of gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t msc gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t sun gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t mman and move the mouse to test. A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). So, where do I go from here? You can either A, do a xorg configuration with the mouse driver man xorg.conf is your friend. B, try inputattach to make the mouse appear as a /dev/input/* device and be automatically included by X11, I haven't tested this. See https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Serial_input_device_to_kernel_input https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Serial_Mouse Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng It is going to take me a few days to get back to try your suggestions. I am drowning in things to do. If gpm only works in a virtual terminal why do I need to continue working with it? I don't use a virtual terminal. I had previously looked for xorg.conf in /etc/X11 where one would expect a config. file to be. I did find one at /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg-video-intel/xorg.conf. It had a single entry and didn't appear likely to be read for mouse configuration. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/23/22 15:26, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 12:19:45PM -0700, Fred wrote: The mouse is a Sun three button mouse without the scroll wheel. I frequently use a program that makes extensive use of the middle button and the pc mouse scroll wheel is hateful. I would like a mouse with a middle button *and* a scroll wheel. So there's no ambiguity as to which I am using. I've never seen one. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I would be very happy with that. The scroll wheel should never have been included with the middle button but it is cheaper to build that way and that is more important than ergonomics. I also don't like the beetle wings for buttons one and three because I am often accidentally clicking button three. The Sun mouse has three buttons with spacing between to rest your fingers. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 18:26:59 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > I would like a mouse with a middle button *and* a scroll wheel. > So there's no ambiguity as to which I am using. > I've never seen one. Out of curiosity, I just did a quick websearch for four+button+mouse - there are dozens of options out there. It should be easy to disable the "wheel click" with libinput's 'ButtonMapping' option. At home, I use a trackball with four buttons, which has the additional advantage of living in peace with the tea cup on my narrow desk -_- libre Grüße, Florian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 12:19:45PM -0700, Fred wrote: > The mouse is a Sun three button mouse without the scroll wheel. I > frequently use a program that makes extensive use of the middle button and > the pc mouse scroll wheel is hateful. I would like a mouse with a middle button *and* a scroll wheel. So there's no ambiguity as to which I am using. I've never seen one. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 22:57:12, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:15:34 +0200 Antony Stone wrote: > > On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 21:11:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > > > > > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > > > > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf > > > > Personally I'd have gone for: > > find / -name xorg.conf > > I may be wrong (and nitpicking;) - but I think that your approach is > less fast, as 'find' does the file name matching /before/ it continues > searching - in opposite to just piping its output to grep and going on > with running down the file system hierarchy without any interruption. Interesting - and you're right. I just tried several successive searches for a few unique filenames in a directory tree (all files in the same directory, just in case the position made a difference). The first search took 6 minutes and clearly set up some cache of results, because subsequent searches were consistently: find . | grep filename : 20 seconds find . -name filename : 25 seconds That was consistent no matter whether the two filenames were the same, or different but still in the same directory, and no matter which command was run first. Nice observation. Antony. -- The more 'success' you get, the easier it is to be disappointed by not getting things. The only difference is that now no-one feels sorry for you. - Matt Haig Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 09:07:57AM -0700, Fred wrote: > On 4/23/22 02:34, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > > Fred: > > > On 4/22/22 15:31, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > > ... > > > >gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyS1 -t msc > > ... > > > It shows up at /dev/ttyUSB0. I have tried that command line several > > > times. Nothing happens. ps -e shows gpm is running. The pointer will > > > not move and the mouse buttons have no effect. > > ... > > > > You have to be aware that gpm is for virtual consoles: > > > > $ man gpm | grep 'gpm - ' > > gpm - a cut and paste utility and mouse server for virtual consoles > > > > So in X11, openbox etc. graphical environment, it has no effect unless > > you take special action. With graphical environment I mean bitmapped as > > opposed to character (i.e. letters) based graphics. > > > > Testing with gpm is best done without X11, so stop your window manager > > (obenbox) and exit from X11. If you then is presented with a greeter > > (also called display manager, see > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_display_manager_(program_type) > > ), see if you can stop the greeter. > > > > Also testing has to be done as root. > > > > So, make sure you are running in a virtual console and logged in as > > root, then run the gpm -b etc. thing and move the mouse around. > > > > To make the mouse to work in X11, please test the mouse with gpm in > > a console first to assert basic functionality, and then come back. > > > > Regards, > > /Karl Hammar > > > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > Hi, > I understand now. I was stuck on gpm because it worked some time ago on > Debian Jessie. I was not ready to continue with it then because I still had > use of my Sun workstation. The Sun is gone now, I was able to move the > application program to Linux and now I need a three button mouse without the > scroll wheel that works with X11. Maybe the Sun mouse. > > A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in Devuan > Beowulf (AMD64). > > So, where do I go from here? I think all mice are supposed to be handled by the kernel and will then get presented at /dev/input/mice You should be able to check that with a simple $ cat -v /dev/input/mice which should then show "noise" when you move the mouse. Then, I think the X11 system relies on udev for setting up its inputs and load the appropriate modules. You may take over that and do things "by hand" by a) making the following file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/a.conf Section "ServerFlags" Option "AutoAddDevices" "false" EndSection and b) installing xserver-xorg-input-kbd and xserver-xorg-input-mouse With that you avoid the automagic processes around X11 inputs and might have a slightly more stable system for tracking down the issue, if it remains. (Needs an X11 restart of course) Ralph. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:15:34 +0200 Antony Stone wrote: > On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 21:11:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > > > On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:07:57 -0700 Fred wrote: > [...] > > > > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf > > Personally I'd have gone for: > > find / -name xorg.conf I may be wrong (and nitpicking;) - but I think that your approach is less fast, as 'find' does the file name matching /before/ it continues searching - in opposite to just piping its output to grep and going on with running down the file system hierarchy without any interruption. libre Grüße, Florian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: > On 4/23/22 02:34, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... > > So, make sure you are running in a virtual console and logged in as > > root, then run the gpm -b etc. thing and move the mouse around. > > > > To make the mouse to work in X11, please test the mouse with gpm in > > a console first to assert basic functionality, and then come back. Did you do the test above ? As long the serial port isn't opened by anything, you can let X11 and openbox be running. If so, press Ctl-Alt-F2 buttons simultaineusly to get to a console. There log in as root and then try one of gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t msc gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t sun gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t mman and move the mouse to test. > A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in > Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). > So, where do I go from here? You can either A, do a xorg configuration with the mouse driver man xorg.conf is your friend. B, try inputattach to make the mouse appear as a /dev/input/* device and be automatically included by X11, I haven't tested this. See https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Serial_input_device_to_kernel_input https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxconsole/files/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Serial_Mouse Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 21:11:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:07:57 -0700 Fred wrote: > > A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in > > Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). > > > > So, where do I go from here? > > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf Personally I'd have gone for: find / -name xorg.conf :) > Also worth a try: > > $ man 5 xorg.conf > libre Grüße, > Florian I still really like that greeting (if that's the right word for it in English). Antony. -- A good conversation is like a miniskirt; short enought to retain interest, but long enough to cover the subject. - Celeste Headlee Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:07:57 -0700 Fred wrote: > A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in > Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). > > So, where do I go from here? Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with $ find / | grep xorg.conf Also worth a try: $ man 5 xorg.conf libre Grüße, Florian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/23/22 02:34, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 4/22/22 15:31, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyS1 -t msc ... It shows up at /dev/ttyUSB0. I have tried that command line several times. Nothing happens. ps -e shows gpm is running. The pointer will not move and the mouse buttons have no effect. ... You have to be aware that gpm is for virtual consoles: $ man gpm | grep 'gpm - ' gpm - a cut and paste utility and mouse server for virtual consoles So in X11, openbox etc. graphical environment, it has no effect unless you take special action. With graphical environment I mean bitmapped as opposed to character (i.e. letters) based graphics. Testing with gpm is best done without X11, so stop your window manager (obenbox) and exit from X11. If you then is presented with a greeter (also called display manager, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_display_manager_(program_type) ), see if you can stop the greeter. Also testing has to be done as root. So, make sure you are running in a virtual console and logged in as root, then run the gpm -b etc. thing and move the mouse around. To make the mouse to work in X11, please test the mouse with gpm in a console first to assert basic functionality, and then come back. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi, I understand now. I was stuck on gpm because it worked some time ago on Debian Jessie. I was not ready to continue with it then because I still had use of my Sun workstation. The Sun is gone now, I was able to move the application program to Linux and now I need a three button mouse without the scroll wheel that works with X11. Maybe the Sun mouse. A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). So, where do I go from here? Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: > On 4/22/22 15:31, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... > > gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyS1 -t msc ... > It shows up at /dev/ttyUSB0. I have tried that command line several > times. Nothing happens. ps -e shows gpm is running. The pointer will > not move and the mouse buttons have no effect. ... You have to be aware that gpm is for virtual consoles: $ man gpm | grep 'gpm - ' gpm - a cut and paste utility and mouse server for virtual consoles So in X11, openbox etc. graphical environment, it has no effect unless you take special action. With graphical environment I mean bitmapped as opposed to character (i.e. letters) based graphics. Testing with gpm is best done without X11, so stop your window manager (obenbox) and exit from X11. If you then is presented with a greeter (also called display manager, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_display_manager_(program_type) ), see if you can stop the greeter. Also testing has to be done as root. So, make sure you are running in a virtual console and logged in as root, then run the gpm -b etc. thing and move the mouse around. To make the mouse to work in X11, please test the mouse with gpm in a console first to assert basic functionality, and then come back. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/22/22 15:31, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: On 4/22/22 14:21, Fred wrote: On 4/22/22 13:46, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... As I said in an earlier post there is an article on using a (different) Sun mouse on Linux. The protocol used was msc. From looking at the output with an oscilloscope that protocol does appear close if not correct. ... From the scope trace you can infer the baud rate. The baud rate is 1 / smallest_pulse_width. Have you tried: mouse-test [ device ] ... That program is actually gpm-mouse-test. ... Should be the same program, differnt packaging. Does most development on gentoo, run devuan on production boxes. The Sun mouse I would like to use is also a compact-1. Does the mouse-test program you mention work with your compact-1 mouse and therefore is actually a different program than the one in the gpm package? I haven't made any adapter for it, it is on a sparcstation. ... As I said in an earlier post I used the mouse (long ago) on Debian Jessie with gpm and it worked with msc protocol. Soo, what happens when you try with: gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyS1 -t msc where ttyS1 should be changed to the serial port used. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi, It shows up at /dev/ttyUSB0. I have tried that command line several times. Nothing happens. ps -e shows gpm is running. The pointer will not move and the mouse buttons have no effect. I have tried using minicom to connect to the mouse and that works in that the minicom cursor moves toward the right with mouse movement. So the hardware is functional. I know the baud rate is 1200. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: > On 4/22/22 14:21, Fred wrote: > > On 4/22/22 13:46, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > >> Fred: > >> ... > >>> As I said in an earlier post there is an article on using a (different) > >>> Sun mouse on Linux. The protocol used was msc. From looking at the > >>> output with an oscilloscope that protocol does appear close if not > >>> correct. ... >From the scope trace you can infer the baud rate. The baud rate is 1 / smallest_pulse_width. > >> Have you tried: > >> > >>  mouse-test [ device ] ... > > That program is actually gpm-mouse-test. ... Should be the same program, differnt packaging. Does most development on gentoo, run devuan on production boxes. > > The Sun mouse I would like to use is also a compact-1. Does the > > mouse-test program you mention work with your compact-1 mouse and > > therefore is actually a different program than the one in the gpm package? I haven't made any adapter for it, it is on a sparcstation. ... > As I said in an earlier post I used the mouse > (long ago) on Debian Jessie with gpm and it worked with msc protocol. Soo, what happens when you try with: gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyS1 -t msc where ttyS1 should be changed to the serial port used. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/22/22 14:21, Fred wrote: On 4/22/22 13:46, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... As I said in an earlier post there is an article on using a (different) Sun mouse on Linux. The protocol used was msc. From looking at the output with an oscilloscope that protocol does appear close if not correct. Type-4 and -5 mice seems to been made by mouse systems: https://www.oldmouse.com/mouse/mousesystems/sun.shtml http://www.telltronics.org/hardware/SunMouse.html My own sun moues is a type compact-1 and is done by Logitech. So your primary choises would be msc and mman (in gpm parlance). As I said in an earlier post I haven't been able to get gpm to do anything with the pointer. Have you tried: mouse-test [ device ] Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi, That program is actually gpm-mouse-test. According to the man page it is incomplete but otherwise would be helpful. The mouse I would like to use appears as a serial port but gpm-mouse-test doesn't provide any option for baud rate. The author is listed in the man page and I will email him to stir the pot. The Sun mouse I would like to use is also a compact-1. Does the mouse-test program you mention work with your compact-1 mouse and therefore is actually a different program than the one in the gpm package? Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I tried the gpm-mouse-test program and it is more complete than the man page indicates. It does try several baud rates. It appeared to be able to see the mouse present but was not able to detect the protocol. I don't know whether that was because of a bug in the program or the mouse uses a custom protocol. As I said in an earlier post I used the mouse (long ago) on Debian Jessie with gpm and it worked with msc protocol. The gpm-mouse-test program also did not detect the regular USB mouse so it may have some problems. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/22/22 13:46, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... As I said in an earlier post there is an article on using a (different) Sun mouse on Linux. The protocol used was msc. From looking at the output with an oscilloscope that protocol does appear close if not correct. Type-4 and -5 mice seems to been made by mouse systems: https://www.oldmouse.com/mouse/mousesystems/sun.shtml http://www.telltronics.org/hardware/SunMouse.html My own sun moues is a type compact-1 and is done by Logitech. So your primary choises would be msc and mman (in gpm parlance). As I said in an earlier post I haven't been able to get gpm to do anything with the pointer. Have you tried: mouse-test [ device ] Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hi, That program is actually gpm-mouse-test. According to the man page it is incomplete but otherwise would be helpful. The mouse I would like to use appears as a serial port but gpm-mouse-test doesn't provide any option for baud rate. The author is listed in the man page and I will email him to stir the pot. The Sun mouse I would like to use is also a compact-1. Does the mouse-test program you mention work with your compact-1 mouse and therefore is actually a different program than the one in the gpm package? Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > As I said in an earlier post there is an article on using a (different) > Sun mouse on Linux. The protocol used was msc. From looking at the > output with an oscilloscope that protocol does appear close if not correct. Type-4 and -5 mice seems to been made by mouse systems: https://www.oldmouse.com/mouse/mousesystems/sun.shtml http://www.telltronics.org/hardware/SunMouse.html My own sun moues is a type compact-1 and is done by Logitech. So your primary choises would be msc and mman (in gpm parlance). > As I said in an earlier post I haven't been able to get gpm to do > anything with the pointer. Have you tried: mouse-test [ device ] Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/22/22 09:32, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Fred: ... I need to work with a nonstandard serial three button mouse without scroll wheel. It needs a baud rate specification and gpm has an option for this. ... I know that gpm works with this mouse. Since gpm works with the mouse I wouldn't say it is a "non-standard" one. What mouse protocol does the mouse speak ? The mouse is a Sun three button mouse without the scroll wheel. I frequently use a program that makes extensive use of the middle button and the pc mouse scroll wheel is hateful. As I said in an earlier post there is an article on using a (different) Sun mouse on Linux. The protocol used was msc. From looking at the output with an oscilloscope that protocol does appear close if not correct. Common protocols are mouseman and msmouse. You can see what protocols are supported by gpm by doing: gpm -m /dev/null -t help Unfortunately you have to do that as root, it doesn't matter what you write as the device, it can be any string. You can also find out about mouse protocols with man mouse Examples of mouse protocols: https://web.stanford.edu/class/ee281/projects/aut2002/yingzong-mouse/media/Serial%20Mouse%20Detection.pdf https://www.kryslix.com/nsfaq/Q.12.html Example mouse code (if you want to build a mouse yourself): https://aspodata.se/git/openhw/boards_arm_aspo/mouse/mouse.c What program is used as mouse driver on Beowulf and Chimaera? In a text mode terminal you can use gpm or something similar. In wayland, I don't know, it seems libinput is used by wayland. In X11 you could use the mouse driver: https://www.x.org/releases/current/doc/man/man4/mousedrv.4.xhtml https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/xserver-xorg-input-mouse You have to configure the mouse driver yourself, udev is of no help for a serial mouse. You can have multiple serial mice connected and used. Example xorg.conf extracts: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device""/dev/ttyS4" Option "Protocol" "MouseMan" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured MSMouse" Driver "mouse" Option "SendCoreEvents" Option "Device""/dev/ttyS5" Option "Protocol" "Microsoft" EndSection Todays usb mice can use: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "SendCoreEvents""true" Option "Device""/dev/input/mice" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection It has apperantly been removed in favour of libinput upstream: https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2020-04-03-deprecation-of-legacy-x11-input-drivers.html Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng As I said in an earlier post I haven't been able to get gpm to do anything with the pointer. I haven't been able to find xorg.conf yet. I will try an entry there. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On April 22, 2022 12:21:02 AM GMT+02:00, aitor wrote: > Hi Fred, > > On 21/4/22 23:39, Fred wrote: > > > I don't understand what you mean by virtual terminal. > > For sure the login prompts of tty2, tty3... brung up by holding down the > Ctrl+Alt keys, and pressing one of the function keys F2, F3... Sorry for the confusion: I meant to write 'terminal emulator' (xterm and alike), not 'virtual terminal'! If I don't get it wrong, in the graphical environment, gpm is not available and pointer actions are handeled by X11 resp. the terminal emulator. gpm is only needed for the text console (tty1, tty2, ...). -- [message sent otg] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > I don't understand what you mean by virtual terminal. There are not many "true" terminals left: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_terminal so basically all terminals today are virtual, in the sense that they behave as if they were an actual terminal, but they are not. There are basically two types of virtual terminals: . virtual consoles (also called virtual terminals) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_console . terminal emulators (like xterm) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_emulator It seems the primary differance between them is that the virtual consoles/terminals works in the text mode which linux comes up in. I.e. with no X11, wayland, openbox or whatever graphical support. And the terminal emulators works in the graphical mode. Some people relate this to the difference between DOS and MS-Windows. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Fred: ... > I need to work with a nonstandard serial three button mouse without > scroll wheel. It needs a baud rate specification and gpm has an > option for this. ... > I know that gpm works with this mouse. Since gpm works with the mouse I wouldn't say it is a "non-standard" one. What mouse protocol does the mouse speak ? Common protocols are mouseman and msmouse. You can see what protocols are supported by gpm by doing: gpm -m /dev/null -t help Unfortunately you have to do that as root, it doesn't matter what you write as the device, it can be any string. You can also find out about mouse protocols with man mouse Examples of mouse protocols: https://web.stanford.edu/class/ee281/projects/aut2002/yingzong-mouse/media/Serial%20Mouse%20Detection.pdf https://www.kryslix.com/nsfaq/Q.12.html Example mouse code (if you want to build a mouse yourself): https://aspodata.se/git/openhw/boards_arm_aspo/mouse/mouse.c > What program is used as mouse driver on Beowulf and Chimaera? In a text mode terminal you can use gpm or something similar. In wayland, I don't know, it seems libinput is used by wayland. In X11 you could use the mouse driver: https://www.x.org/releases/current/doc/man/man4/mousedrv.4.xhtml https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/xserver-xorg-input-mouse You have to configure the mouse driver yourself, udev is of no help for a serial mouse. You can have multiple serial mice connected and used. Example xorg.conf extracts: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device""/dev/ttyS4" Option "Protocol" "MouseMan" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured MSMouse" Driver "mouse" Option "SendCoreEvents" Option "Device""/dev/ttyS5" Option "Protocol" "Microsoft" EndSection Todays usb mice can use: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "SendCoreEvents""true" Option "Device""/dev/input/mice" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection It has apperantly been removed in favour of libinput upstream: https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2020-04-03-deprecation-of-legacy-x11-input-drivers.html Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/21/22 23:00, marc wrote: Hello gpm (and I suppose also consolation) is active only on the console, not in virtual terminals - so there's no conflict. Libre Gre, Florian I don't understand what you mean by virtual terminal. I don't use a DE, just openbox. I may have two xterms open, nedit, tuxcmd plus some other program. The mouse will work in any of these and its input would come from one place, presumably the mouse driver. If I install gpm (or consolation) what decides where the mouse input is coming from? It appears to me that the default driver needs to be stopped but I don't know what it is called. Are you using gpm in repeater mode (-R with /dev/gpmdata) to somehow translate mouse buttons ? There are a number of programs to translate input devices (via /dev/uinput), including one written by yours truly... though given that gpm appears to be present in the upgraded distribution, just making sure that it runs with the correct options might be the easiest ? regards marc Hi Marc, I installed gpm but it was not able to capture the pointer. Likely I don't know enough about how it works to choose the right options. The original (USB) mouse appears to show up at /dev/input/mouse0. The mouse I want to use has a TTL interface which is connected to one of the FTDI serial to USB converters. When plugged in it appears at /dev/ttyUSB0. I used minicom to verify it works. There was an article somewhere on the Internet about using a Sun mouse on Linux and long ago I tested their command line on Debian Jessie and it worked. gpm -b 1200 -m /dev/ttyUSB0 -t msc However, on Beowulf it does not do anything. ps -e shows that gpm is running. What should the command line be for repeater mode? /dev/gpmdata does not exist. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hello > >gpm (and I suppose also consolation) is active only on the console, not in > >virtual terminals - so there's no conflict. > > > >Libre Gre, > >Florian > > > > I don't understand what you mean by virtual terminal. I don't use a DE, > just openbox. I may have two xterms open, nedit, tuxcmd plus some other > program. The mouse will work in any of these and its input would come from > one place, presumably the mouse driver. If I install gpm (or consolation) > what decides where the mouse input is coming from? It appears to me that > the default driver needs to be stopped but I don't know what it is called. Are you using gpm in repeater mode (-R with /dev/gpmdata) to somehow translate mouse buttons ? There are a number of programs to translate input devices (via /dev/uinput), including one written by yours truly... though given that gpm appears to be present in the upgraded distribution, just making sure that it runs with the correct options might be the easiest ? regards marc ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi again, On 22/4/22 0:21, aitor wrote: For sure the login prompts of tty2, tty3... brung up by holding down the Ctrl+Alt keys, and pressing one of the function keys F2, F3... In debian the first six virtual TTYs (tty1, tty2,... tty6) are non-graphical, according to the configuration in /etc/inittab. Quoted verbatim: # Note that on most Debian systems tty7 is used by the X Window System, # so if you want to add more getty's go ahead but skip tty7 if you run X. # 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty --noclear 38400 tty1 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi Fred, On 21/4/22 23:39, Fred wrote: I don't understand what you mean by virtual terminal. For sure the login prompts of tty2, tty3... brung up by holding down the Ctrl+Alt keys, and pressing one of the function keys F2, F3... Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On 4/21/22 13:09, Florian Zieboll wrote: On April 21, 2022 9:28:16 PM GMT+02:00, wrote: Hi, If I install gpm or consolation won't that conflict with whatever driver is already installed? gpm (and I suppose also consolation) is active only on the console, not in virtual terminals - so there's no conflict. Libre Grüße, Florian I don't understand what you mean by virtual terminal. I don't use a DE, just openbox. I may have two xterms open, nedit, tuxcmd plus some other program. The mouse will work in any of these and its input would come from one place, presumably the mouse driver. If I install gpm (or consolation) what decides where the mouse input is coming from? It appears to me that the default driver needs to be stopped but I don't know what it is called. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On April 21, 2022 9:28:16 PM GMT+02:00, wrote: > Hi, > > If I install gpm or consolation won't that conflict with whatever driver > is already installed? gpm (and I suppose also consolation) is active only on the console, not in virtual terminals - so there's no conflict. Libre Grüße, Florian -- [message sent otg] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
Hi, If I install gpm or consolation won't that conflict with whatever driver is already installed? The gpm man page says it is not allowed to have two instances of gpm running at the same time and there is an option to kill the previous instance. Best regards, Fred On 4/21/22 11:50, Daniel Abrecht via Dng wrote: An alternative to "gpm" would be "consolation". It's based on "libinput". I've never tried serial mice, but you can probably install & start "inputattach", and then "consolation" should probably pick it up if it's installed. inputattach should also work with other things such as X11 and Wayland. Regards, Daniel Abrecht ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
An alternative to "gpm" would be "consolation". It's based on "libinput". I've never tried serial mice, but you can probably install & start "inputattach", and then "consolation" should probably pick it up if it's installed. inputattach should also work with other things such as X11 and Wayland. Regards, Daniel Abrecht ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 09:07:20AM -0700, Fred wrote: > Hello, > > What program is used as mouse driver on Beowulf and Chimaera? Gpm was > previously used but it is not installed now. I need to work with a > nonstandard serial three button mouse without scroll wheel. It needs a baud > rate specification and gpm has an option for this. I know that gpm works > with this mouse. > Hi, gpm package is available in beowulf and chimaera repos. $ apt-cache madison gpm gpm | 1.20.7-8 | http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera/main amd64 Packages gpm | 1.20.7-5 | http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf/main amd64 Packages -- gast0n ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On April 21, 2022 6:07:20 PM GMT+02:00, Fred wrote: > Hello, > > What program is used as mouse driver on Beowulf and Chimaera? Gpm was > previously used but it is not installed now. I need to work with a > nonstandard serial three button mouse without scroll wheel. It needs a > baud rate specification and gpm has an option for this. I know that gpm > works with this mouse. I have gpm running on chimaera, so it should be in the repository. Besides that, 'consolation' had been mentioned on this list as a successor of gpm, but I have not tried it yet. Libre Grüße, Florian -- [message sent otg] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] mouse driver question
Hello, What program is used as mouse driver on Beowulf and Chimaera? Gpm was previously used but it is not installed now. I need to work with a nonstandard serial three button mouse without scroll wheel. It needs a baud rate specification and gpm has an option for this. I know that gpm works with this mouse. Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng