Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

Doug,

You didn't mention what rig you are going to buy instead.  Be sure to be
aware of its limitations before you buy it.

For example, the FTdx101MP has three show-stoppers (for a CW op like me),
despite it's impressive numbers in the Sherwood table:

   - Poor QSK performance (the clicking keying relay cannot be disabled,
   same problem as the IC-7300)
   - No CW sidetone output on USB Audio CODEC-- cannot record both ends of
   your QSOs (a contest requirement in some contests)
   - Mouse wheel is not supported for fine tuning or RIT (I think).  K4
   supports this very well

As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in
the Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3.  The K4 audio
is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a
pileup calls.  That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement.
The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in
the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no
ringing.

73,
Bob, N6TV


On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:34 PM Doug Person  wrote:

> Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down
> the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First,
> there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the
> most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4
> is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything
> away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of
> performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their
> game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3
> did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many
> ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it
> was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with
> the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point
> the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete
> K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the
> waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and
> whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500
> less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs.
> After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me,
> the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other
> significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump
> on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if
> feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since
> I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware.
>
> Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s.
>
> Doug -- K0DXV
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to n...@arrl.net
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I live in a place where there is a ham with a legal limit rig and a big 
beam less than 1 km. away. Antennas are line of sight. His signal 
renders about 10-20 kHz of the (CW) band unusable, with lesser effects 
extending out farther. He does not have clicks; it is phase noise (or 
something like that).


I have experimented with attenuators and they have NO effect on the 
apparent width of his signal. Therefore I conclude that the problem is 
not in my receiver (K3, not S, upgraded synthesizers).


I don't know what kind of transceiver he is using, but I think more 
attention needs to be paid to transmitter cleanliness, rather than to 
continue the race for dynamic range.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
CWops #5
Formerly K2VCO
https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 09/06/2021 4:57, Al Lorona wrote:




Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic
range: almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make
this ranking more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood
himself has said that 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand
why, see this post from 2016 by one of the old guys on this
reflector:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html

 Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear
someone else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't
panic. There are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve
you in the least.

Above all, have fun.

Al W6LX/4 


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] Warning: Windows 10 Update resets FTDI options back to defaults, keys radio

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

I just installed a Windows 10 Update, and even before rebooting to complete
the install, I noticed that Windows had reset all my Elecraft FTDI virtual
COM port settings back to the (bad) FTDI defaults, which means your PC can
key your radio about 7 or 8 times every time Windows restarts  or the USB
cable is connected, assuming *CONFIG:PTT-KEY* is set to *RTS-DTR* in a K3,
or *MENU:Serial, USB-PC1* or* USB-PC2 DTR/RTS* is set to *CW* or *PTT* in a
K4, to support computer-generated CW and PTT.

To prevent this unwanted radio keying by Windows, while still being able to
use computer-generated CW and PTT on these COM port pins, do this for every
FTDI port:

   1. Open Windows Device Manager
   2. Expand *Ports* section
   3. Right click on Elecraft virtual COM port(s)
   4. *Properties*
   5. *Port Settings* tab
   6. *Advanced* Button
   7. Make sure *Serial Enumerator* is NOT checked
   8. Make sure *Disable Modem Ctrl At Startup* *is checked*
   9. Click *OK*

More details with screenshots in this updated presentation linked from my
QRZ.COM page :

   - Everything You Need to Know About USB and Serial Interfaces
   , updated for 2021

See slides 26, 27, and 28.

I've just updated this presentation (today) with a few new slides showing
on how to avoid the same unwanted keying issue when using legacy serial
ports like COM1: and COM2: (slides 29 to 33), and one new K4 Menu
screenshot (slide 52).

73,
Bob, N6TV
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Jim Brown]

On 6/9/2021 12:01 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in
the Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3.  The K4 audio
is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a
pileup calls.  That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement.
The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in
the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no
ringing.


Note that Bob, like K6XX, is a serious engineer (retired from IBM) and 
TOP CW contester. Both are friends. TV is retired, XX is a manufacturing 
engineer at Elecraft. XX is also a serious SSB contester.


73, Jim K9YC
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] A Clarification: IC-7300 vs FTDX10

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:01 PM Richard  wrote:

> Assuming you're a casual rawchewer and DXer, if you had an IC-7300 and an
> FTDX10 side by side, where would they be pretty much equal, and where would
> each outshine the other?
>
> Think in terms of using them with a KPA500 and a KAT500.


Neither the KPA500 nor the KAT500 can auto-track the frequency any Icom rig
by itself.  Instead, go for the KPA1500 with its built-in tuner, which
auto-tracks *all* Icom rigs via it's 2-wire REMOTE (CI-V) connector quite
perfectly.

The KPA500 XCVR serial port and KAT500 PC DATA port are completely
compatible with Kenwood's serial ports for auto-track, but the KPA500 XCVR
interface is NOT compatible with Yaesu rigs, because Yaesu's frequency
commands don't match the Kenwood standard properly (not enough leading
zeroes, something Elecraft may be able to handle some day with a firmware
update to both the KAT500 and KPA500).

The KPA1500, on the other hand, WILL auto-track any modern Yaesu rig via
serial port just fine.  My Serial Box  can help with
the interconnections to both using stock molded cables, so no homebrew or
expensive custom cables are needed.

Though you can wire the LINEAR connector of a Yaesu rig to a KPA500 AUX
connector, and it will auto-track band changes perfectly, the KAT500 will
not track the VFO frequency, so it's only half of what you requested.

So in sum, if you're looking at any Icom or Yaesu rig, consider the KPA1500
instead of the KPA500/KAT500 combo, or wait for new firmware to support
Yaesu's frequency format.

Icom support in the KAT500/KPA500 is not possible, only the KPA1500 has the
hardware.

Another option to consider is N4PY's Pegasus Plus
 software, which will translate Icom
and Yaesu frequency data to Kenwood format for the KPA500 and KAT500.  The
S-BOX-USB can be configured as a null-modem cable interface to connect
N4PY's software to both the KPA500 and KAT500 using a single USB port on
the PC.

73,
Bob, N6TV
https://bit.ly/S-BOX
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Jim Brown]

Exactly right, Vic. A dirty rig, whether generating clicks or phase 
noise, is putting his trash on YOUR frequency. You are screwed by his 
choice of a lousy radio. And he doesn't care. I've got a neighbor like 
that.


73, Jim K9YC

On 6/9/2021 12:45 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
I live in a place where there is a ham with a legal limit rig and a big 
beam less than 1 km. away. Antennas are line of sight. His signal 
renders about 10-20 kHz of the (CW) band unusable, with lesser effects 
extending out farther. He does not have clicks; it is phase noise (or 
something like that).


I have experimented with attenuators and they have NO effect on the 
apparent width of his signal. Therefore I conclude that the problem is 
not in my receiver (K3, not S, upgraded synthesizers).


I don't know what kind of transceiver he is using, but I think more 
attention needs to be paid to transmitter cleanliness, rather than to 
continue the race for dynamic range.


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Receiving with Skimmer SDR on K-3 transmit antennas

[Edward H Russell]

Some SDRs have a mute input that can be connected to KEY OUT on the K4. This
prevents self-spotting. I use this with the RFSpace SDR-IQ. Hopefully when
available the K4 IQ stream will (perhaps optionallyu) mute during TX.


ED / W2RF




-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Bob Wilson, N6TV
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 9:21 PM
To: N4ZR 
Cc: Elecraft List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Receiving with Skimmer SDR on K-3 transmit antennas

I documented the procedure about 13 years ago in this presentation, linked
at the very bottom of my QRZ.COM page , which
includes the recommended Mini-Circuits 50 ohm splitter (ZFSC-2-6
).

   - Adding a Software Defined Radio (SDR) to an SO2R station
   

High power cannot exit the RF ANT OUT jack, so it's safe, but there's no way
to prevent a local skimmer from spotting you.  Skimmer won't spot your own
call, but it will usually spot busted variants.  I recommend disconnecting
your skimmer from the RBN when operating at the same site.

Local RF will usually leak into the SDR even with no antenna connected; the
SDR is very sensitive.  Probably no way to mute it completely during TX.

73,
Bob, N6TV


On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 6:50 PM N4ZR  wrote:

> I would like to be able to connect my SDR (an RP-16) to my 
> transmitting antennas, and have it automatically muted when my 
> K3/KPA-1500 goes to transmit.  The idea is to have the best possible 
> antennas available for Skimming while active in contests.
>
> It seems to me that I should be able to connect a splitter between the 
> RX Out and RX In ports on the K3, and use that to feed the SDR by 
> pressing the RX Ant button  (at a cost of ~3.5 dB loss, of course).
> Question is, what happens when I go to transmit - is the RX Out line 
> muted so that my SDR won't try to spot me? Ideally, I'd think it would 
> be, but I've groped around in the K3 manual and Fred Cady's book, and 
> haven't found a concrete answer - can anyone help?
>
> --
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network web server at 
> .
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> n...@arrl.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
delivered to e...@qrv.com 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] A Clarification: IC-7300 vs FTDX10

[hb9cvq]

Yes, I agree, I also prefer the FTDX101MP  (own it 1 + year/CW, SSB) and have 3 
K3S/P3 Systems…..but...no such thing as perfect…here is my story from my 
qrz.com blog

I now use and recommend ( e.g. DSP even Better) the YAESU May 2021 SW/FW update 
now. 

 

I own a YAESU FTDX101MP ( SW/FW upgrade April 2020 ) since 1 Year and am very 
impressed by the high performance (I do SSB , also QRO CW; ragchewing/ DXing/ 
Contesting). This unit YAESU is partly even better than Tx / RX K3S, but not 
for QSK (relays chattering) .

I would like to bring the following, unexpected findings -should get fixed 
a.s.a.p.- to your attention (or did I overlook something?):

1.  Voice Messages (e.g. CQ)  can be recorded e.g. in SSB and CW. Bacon 
Mode (automatic , interval repeat) is only possible in CW not in SSB , very 
impractical.
2.  Incoming signals like QSOs cannot be recorded by the TRX directly.
3.  The TX PWR Meter should read PEP not average.
4.  60m (5MHz) there is no sharp preselector available (VC Tune).  It is 
also not possible to activate VC Tune on 12m, 6m.
5.  RX: IPO to AMP1 to AMP2 is about a 10dB difference each step (20dB 
range) , Input RX Attenuator is correct with -6, -12, -18 dB
6.  S-Meter Calibration 160m to 6m is not always real as (IARU Definition) 
S9=-73dBm or 50uV/50Ohm. Yes, below S9 there are -3dB steps per S-Unit, above 
S9 meter indication is correct as shown
7.  The band scope needs different sensitivity settings for viewing RX and 
own TX signals. If optimized for RX, you will see a completly distorted/ 
overloading signal in TX mode !

 

*   160m to 40m:  real S9 (AMP1) is more like S 7.5 on the meter, with IPO 
more like S 4.5 e.g. on 40m
*   20 to 6m: real S9 is about S9 (AMP1) on the meter
*   Knowing about this I can live with it, easily. On the low bands the 
S-Meter is not very generous.

A much more critical issue for some RX denoising applications is …

Tricky Antenna port selection , accessibility to Input RX1 and RX2 individually 
not possible (diversity or local QRM reduction by phasing?)

*   There are 3 Ant. Ports.
*   There is a RX1 out and RX2 out port, obviously only , individually 
selectable via menu
*   Normal Configuration: T1 is TX and RX Port-> measuring the RX signal 
attenuation between T1 (AMP1 , ATT 0dB, VC Tune on) and e.g. RX1 out:

It varies, from 160 to 30m…15m  from -6db/-9dB,  on 12m it is suddenly +5dB, on 
10m there is 0dB. On the low bands there is a considerable signal loss!

*   Special RX Ant. Configuration: port One (#3) can be configured e.g. as 
RX on 3 only , while T1 is only transmit
*   Configuration R3 (RX only: AMP1 , ATT 0dB, VC Tune on), T1 TX only. 
Measuring the RX signal attenuation now between RX only import and e.g. RX1 
out: -10 dB on 160m, 80m -3dB, 60/40/30/20m -5dB, 17m -7dB, 12m +6dB, 10m +2dB.

The mostly relatively sharp frequency band selection (VC Tune) is clearly 
visible.

*   Problem/Dilemma with using an external RX phasing/ QRM Eliminator, 
there is now a missing function of routing the Main (TX) /RX Ant 1 Signal 
safely through to an RX outport (as in K3S). In FTDX101MP it is either RX all 
on Ant 1 or all RX on R3.
*   The phasing unit NCC1 with me has 2 channels: A noisy main Antenna, B 
noise local noise pick-up by a 1m diameter magnetic broadband loop. The S/N 
improved, vector combined output port signal must go to the Transceiver RX 
input port ( e.g. R3).
*   Therefore the safe routing through of the main antenna (only Rx 
function ) is badly missed here.
*   Envisioned external solution: Order/Installation of a separate, 
“Modular Receive Antenna Interface for Transceivers DXE-RTR-2” in front of the 
FTDX1001MP

 

I also own a Elecraft K3S and did some EMI (Electromag. Interference) coupling 
experiment into the power supply (PS) port. This is another, aside from antenna 
port, important EMI port and potentially causing uncontrolled RX coupling. The 
effect is often overlooked. Conducted EMI -on the PS- of TRX ( Transceiver) 
results in backdoor coupling , if e.g. using external 12V (13.8V DC) external 
PS in a station.

Investigation: Elecraft K3S ( minus on chassis ground and grounded by terminal 
(stud) to station ground => risk of loop formation with PE protective earth):

Lab-Testing in a well-controlled coupling experiment (TRX Antenna terminated 
with DL 50 Ohm , 12V Battery operated-20 dB choked off, EMI injected 
capacitively into TRX plus, minus on GND )  

*   one can show S3 on the S-Meter on 80m for already some 20mVpp CM 
voltage ( 12V DC plus/minus input of TRX).
*   In the same test on 20m it takes just 30mVpp to reach S8

We have seen over 100mVpp induced on the 13.8V DC supply voltage in a K3S 
experiment 28MHz, 60W into Dummy Load 50Ohm.

Using a MDS-clamp (EMC Test 30M-1GHz, --CISPR 16-1-3--, applicable to only on 
cable connection on K3S) test on the DC supply line resulted in 76dBpW ( about 
40 micro Watt

Re: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates

[Lyn Norstad]

Richard -

I am using the IC-7300 / KPA500 / KAT500 combination every day, and I love
it.  

Most of my ragchewing is SSB, but I am using CW more often these days.  The
digital modes, especially FT8, FT4, JS8 etc. probably account for 75% of my
operation.  Of those, JS8 is the ragchew choice.  I also use it extensively
for EmComm - principally with digital modes such as Winlink (P2P).

The 7300 is a natural for digital modes, and requires only a cable to
interface.  The menu structure is a joy ... very logical and easy to
optimize (tweak) settings for any specific mode and save to SD card for
immediate recall.  For example, I have arrived at very specific settings for
CW by researching what other, more active CWers, are doing and find that I
am able to carry on a good QSO with stations I couldn't even hear before and
a bandwidth that knocks out the ham down the street.

Operation with the Elecraft "twins" for me is nearly fully automatic.  In my
shack, if I am operating digital modes, I am facing 90 degrees away from the
rig, amp, tuner.  But I don't even need to see them.  The amp and tuner
track the 7300 perfectly except that the tuner does not update until it
receives some RF. 

I can't say anything authoritative about Yaesu, except that the only Yaesu I
currently own is their top-of-the-line FTM-400XDR mobile - and the menu
structure bears no semblance to operating logic.  For me anyway, Icom just
makes more sense.

I regularly get unsolicited reports of "absolutely perfect audio" which is
nice too.

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2021 5:36 PM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates

For the casual rawchewer and DXer, how does the IC-7300 compare to the
FTDX10? 

Think in terms of using them with a KPA500 and a KAT500.

Richard Kunc ~ W4KBX
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates

[Lyn Norstad]

Richard -

I am using the IC-7300 / KPA500 / KAT500 combination every day, and I love
it.  

Most of my ragchewing is SSB, but I am using CW more often these days.  The
digital modes, especially FT8, FT4, JS8 etc. probably account for 75% of my
operation.  Of those, JS8 is the ragchew choice.  I also use it extensively
for EmComm - principally with digital modes such as Winlink (P2P).

The 7300 is a natural for digital modes, and requires only a cable to
interface.  The menu structure is a joy ... very logical and easy to
optimize (tweak) settings for any specific mode and save to SD card for
immediate recall.  For example, I have arrived at very specific settings for
CW by researching what other, more active CWers, are doing and find that I
am able to carry on a good QSO with stations I couldn't even hear before and
a bandwidth that knocks out the ham down the street.

Operation with the Elecraft "twins" for me is nearly fully automatic.  In my
shack, if I am operating digital modes, I am facing 90 degrees away from the
rig, amp, tuner.  But I don't even need to see them.  The amp and tuner
track the 7300 perfectly except that the tuner does not update until it
receives some RF. 

I can't say anything authoritative about Yaesu, except that the only Yaesu I
currently own is their top-of-the-line FTM-400XDR mobile - and the menu
structure bears no semblance to operating logic.  For me anyway, Icom just
makes more sense.

I regularly get unsolicited reports of "absolutely perfect audio" which is
nice too.

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2021 5:36 PM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates

For the casual rawchewer and DXer, how does the IC-7300 compare to the
FTDX10? 

Think in terms of using them with a KPA500 and a KAT500.

Richard Kunc ~ W4KBX
__


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates

[Morgan Bailey]

Lyn,

You have the exact rig setup that I generally recommend others to buy that
enjoy rag chewing, some ssb net work and just general operating. One of the
Problems with the 7300 is generally not the radio, it is the operator. The
7300 has a pretty hot front end and using Attenuation well will make that
radio shine. It has a really good DSP but you have to get into the menus to
make it sing. Maybe someday there will be a CIV in port to make the 7300
really sing with the KPA500/kat500. The KPA 1500 has a CIV port and works
well with a 7300.  Yes, the audio of the 7300 is great. I do not use full
breakin because I don't enjoy the constant hash/noise in the headphones. My
general setting is semi with 30 to 50 msec delay.

Essentially the KTA/KAP500 makes most any rig into a 500 watt
transceiver---fully automatic. Once the cables are set up, the Kat/kpa
detects the freq and does the band switching. Setting up the KAT for the
frequencies before turning on the amp, once this is done the system is bomb
proof simple operation. I am sure you are enjoying it.

73, Morgan NJ8M

BS + MS + $2.98 = COFFEE
Real Life Experience = Priceless, says the man who set his back yard on
fire with a breadboard tuner loading a 160 meter inverted L with 1000
watts. LOL


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:13 AM Lyn Norstad  wrote:

> Richard -
>
> I am using the IC-7300 / KPA500 / KAT500 combination every day, and I love
> it.
>
> Most of my ragchewing is SSB, but I am using CW more often these days.  The
> digital modes, especially FT8, FT4, JS8 etc. probably account for 75% of my
> operation.  Of those, JS8 is the ragchew choice.  I also use it extensively
> for EmComm - principally with digital modes such as Winlink (P2P).
>
> The 7300 is a natural for digital modes, and requires only a cable to
> interface.  The menu structure is a joy ... very logical and easy to
> optimize (tweak) settings for any specific mode and save to SD card for
> immediate recall.  For example, I have arrived at very specific settings
> for
> CW by researching what other, more active CWers, are doing and find that I
> am able to carry on a good QSO with stations I couldn't even hear before
> and
> a bandwidth that knocks out the ham down the street.
>
> Operation with the Elecraft "twins" for me is nearly fully automatic.  In
> my
> shack, if I am operating digital modes, I am facing 90 degrees away from
> the
> rig, amp, tuner.  But I don't even need to see them.  The amp and tuner
> track the 7300 perfectly except that the tuner does not update until it
> receives some RF.
>
> I can't say anything authoritative about Yaesu, except that the only Yaesu
> I
> currently own is their top-of-the-line FTM-400XDR mobile - and the menu
> structure bears no semblance to operating logic.  For me anyway, Icom just
> makes more sense.
>
> I regularly get unsolicited reports of "absolutely perfect audio" which is
> nice too.
>
> 73
> Lyn, W0LEN
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2021 5:36 PM
> To: Elecraft
> Subject: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates
>
> For the casual rawchewer and DXer, how does the IC-7300 compare to the
> FTDX10?
>
> Think in terms of using them with a KPA500 and a KAT500.
>
> Richard Kunc ~ W4KBX
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mbaileyc...@gmail.com
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates

[Rajiv Dewan]

After my K3 broke last fall, I bought a IC7300 the week before CQWW CW so that 
I could be on the air.  I set it up with KAT500/KPA500 the way it is 
recommended by Elecraft.  Using a tuner cable from IC7300 to power and provide 
key information to KAT500.

First a word about my operating style - I like to operate with the filters open 
unless I have QRM problems.  Even while contesting, the narrowest filter I tend 
to use is 500Hz.

Before the contest started, I loved the sound from the IC7300.   It had the 
cleanness that I associate with SDR radios - Mercury, Anan, Hermes, etc.  From 
prior usage of direct conversion SDRs I knew to expect ADC overload and how to 
deal with it using attenuation.  

After the contest started, the IC7300 was trash.  It just could not deal with 
the wall to wall signals.  Tons of artifacts, AGC pumping.  I tried narrower 
filters, etc.  Absolutely bad.  I had never experienced anything like this on 
the K3.  

It sure incentivized me to fix the K3, which I did and sold the IC7300 in 
January.  The good news about the 7300 is that the demand is so robust that I 
only lost a little in the purchase and resale.

Raj, N2RD

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 8:26 AM, Morgan Bailey  wrote:
> 
> Lyn,
> 
> You have the exact rig setup that I generally recommend others to buy that
> enjoy rag chewing, some ssb net work and just general operating. One of the
> Problems with the 7300 is generally not the radio, it is the operator. The
> 7300 has a pretty hot front end and using Attenuation well will make that
> radio shine. It has a really good DSP but you have to get into the menus to
> make it sing. Maybe someday there will be a CIV in port to make the 7300
> really sing with the KPA500/kat500. The KPA 1500 has a CIV port and works
> well with a 7300.  Yes, the audio of the 7300 is great. I do not use full
> breakin because I don't enjoy the constant hash/noise in the headphones. My
> general setting is semi with 30 to 50 msec delay.
> 
> Essentially the KTA/KAP500 makes most any rig into a 500 watt
> transceiver---fully automatic. Once the cables are set up, the Kat/kpa
> detects the freq and does the band switching. Setting up the KAT for the
> frequencies before turning on the amp, once this is done the system is bomb
> proof simple operation. I am sure you are enjoying it.
> 
> 73, Morgan NJ8M
> 
> BS + MS + $2.98 = COFFEE
> Real Life Experience = Priceless, says the man who set his back yard on
> fire with a breadboard tuner loading a 160 meter inverted L with 1000
> watts. LOL
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:13 AM Lyn Norstad  > wrote:
> 
>> Richard -
>> 
>> I am using the IC-7300 / KPA500 / KAT500 combination every day, and I love
>> it.
>> 
>> Most of my ragchewing is SSB, but I am using CW more often these days.  The
>> digital modes, especially FT8, FT4, JS8 etc. probably account for 75% of my
>> operation.  Of those, JS8 is the ragchew choice.  I also use it extensively
>> for EmComm - principally with digital modes such as Winlink (P2P).
>> 
>> The 7300 is a natural for digital modes, and requires only a cable to
>> interface.  The menu structure is a joy ... very logical and easy to
>> optimize (tweak) settings for any specific mode and save to SD card for
>> immediate recall.  For example, I have arrived at very specific settings
>> for
>> CW by researching what other, more active CWers, are doing and find that I
>> am able to carry on a good QSO with stations I couldn't even hear before
>> and
>> a bandwidth that knocks out the ham down the street.
>> 
>> Operation with the Elecraft "twins" for me is nearly fully automatic.  In
>> my
>> shack, if I am operating digital modes, I am facing 90 degrees away from
>> the
>> rig, amp, tuner.  But I don't even need to see them.  The amp and tuner
>> track the 7300 perfectly except that the tuner does not update until it
>> receives some RF.
>> 
>> I can't say anything authoritative about Yaesu, except that the only Yaesu
>> I
>> currently own is their top-of-the-line FTM-400XDR mobile - and the menu
>> structure bears no semblance to operating logic.  For me anyway, Icom just
>> makes more sense.
>> 
>> I regularly get unsolicited reports of "absolutely perfect audio" which is
>> nice too.
>> 
>> 73
>> Lyn, W0LEN
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2021 5:36 PM
>> To: Elecraft
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Apples and Pomegranates
>> 
>> For the casual rawchewer and DXer, how does the IC-7300 compare to the
>> FTDX10?
>> 
>> Think in terms of using them with a KPA500 and a KAT500.
>> 
>> Richard Kunc ~ W4KBX
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Ple

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[John Nicholson]

For me, there are two more FTdx101D CW operator show stoppers.

Fourth show stopper: CW sidetone is not a pure tone. T8 not T9. 

Fifth show stopper: rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge 
becoming a solid dash over 22 wpm. 

Yaesu is aware of both issues. I was told to go pound sand.

John K7FD

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 12:03 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV  wrote:
> 
> Doug,
> 
> You didn't mention what rig you are going to buy instead.  Be sure to be
> aware of its limitations before you buy it.
> 
> For example, the FTdx101MP has three show-stoppers (for a CW op like me),
> despite it's impressive numbers in the Sherwood table:
> 
>   - Poor QSK performance (the clicking keying relay cannot be disabled,
>   same problem as the IC-7300)
>   - No CW sidetone output on USB Audio CODEC-- cannot record both ends of
>   your QSOs (a contest requirement in some contests)
>   - Mouse wheel is not supported for fine tuning or RIT (I think).  K4
>   supports this very well
> 
> As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in
> the Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3.  The K4 audio
> is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a
> pileup calls.  That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement.
> The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in
> the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no
> ringing.
> 
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:34 PM Doug Person  wrote:
>> 
>> Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down
>> the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First,
>> there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the
>> most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4
>> is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything
>> away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of
>> performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their
>> game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3
>> did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many
>> ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it
>> was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with
>> the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point
>> the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete
>> K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the
>> waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and
>> whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500
>> less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs.
>> After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me,
>> the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other
>> significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump
>> on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if
>> feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since
>> I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware.
>> 
>> Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s.
>> 
>> Doug -- K0DXV
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to n...@arrl.net
>> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Skip Davis via Elecraft]

Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks 
on the front left hand side :)

Skip Davis, NC9O
Sent from my iPhone
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K4] Warning: Windows 10 Update resets FTDI options back to defaults, keys radio

[steve WB3LGC]

Bob,  Thank you for the link to your Serial Interface Doc !!  I have not 
had "real" problems with COM ports, BUT it is nice to have a current 
reference in one package.  Thank you for doing the work.  73, steve WB3LGC


On 6/9/21 3:56 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
I just installed a Windows 10 Update, and even before rebooting to 
complete the install, I noticed that Windows had reset all my Elecraft 
FTDI virtual COM port settings back to the (bad) FTDI defaults, which 
means your PC can key your radio about 7 or 8 times every time Windows 
restarts  or the USB cable is connected, assuming *CONFIG:PTT-KEY* is 
set to *RTS-DTR* in a K3, or *MENU:Serial, 
USB-PC1* or* USB-PC2 DTR/RTS* is set to *CW* or *PTT* in a K4, to 
support computer-generated CW and PTT.


To prevent this unwanted radio keying by Windows, while still being 
able to use computer-generated CW and PTT on these COM port pins, do 
this for every FTDI port:


 1. Open Windows Device Manager
 2. Expand *Ports* section
 3. Right click on Elecraft virtual COM port(s)
 4. *Properties*
 5. *Port Settings* tab
 6. *Advanced* Button
 7. Make sure *Serial Enumerator* is NOT checked
 8. Make sure *Disable Modem Ctrl At Startup* /is* checked*/
 9. Click *OK*

More details with screenshots in this updated presentation linked from 
my QRZ.COM page :


  * Everything You Need to Know About USB and Serial Interfaces
, updated for 2021

See slides 26, 27, and 28.

I've just updated this presentation (today) with a few new slides 
showing on how to avoid the same unwanted keying issue when using 
legacy serial ports like COM1: and COM2: (slides 29 to 33), and one 
new K4 Menu screenshot (slide 52).


73,
Bob, N6TV
_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#3398) 
 | Reply To Group 
 
| Reply To Sender 
 
| Mute This Topic  | New Topic 

Your Subscription  | 
Contact Group Owner  | Unsubscribe 
 
[sm.shearer...@gmail.com]


_._,_._,_

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] K3S connections for Winlink Express -

[Chris Kimball]

I'm running Winlink Express 1.5.37.0 with my K3S, using the same K3S USB
connector to computer cable that serves well for FLDigi.  

All is working well if the frequencies and bandwidths are set manually,
however, I'm not getting K3S frequency setting by Winlink Express when
channel setting on Winlink. All the work has been with ARDOP Winlink
sessions.

Do I need a cable from the RS 232 port to the computer USB port?

Do I need a K3S special setting?

Thanks,

Chris

NQ8Z



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ENOUGH...

[Julia Tuttle]

I did, it's the KX3.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 08:16 Bill Steffey NY9H  wrote:

>GET A LIFE   , PICK A RADIO   TURN IT ON AND GO PLAY RADIO.
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ENOUGH...

[Julia Tuttle]

It was still super rude. If you don't care how folks pick a rig, skip the
thread and move on.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 10:52 Bill Steffey NY9H  wrote:

> sorry that was for the world  not you 
>
>
> bill
> On 6/9/2021 10:47 AM, Julia Tuttle wrote:
>
> I did, it's the KX3.
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 08:16 Bill Steffey NY9H  wrote:
>
>>GET A LIFE   , PICK A RADIO   TURN IT ON AND GO PLAY RADIO.
>>
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Louandzip via Elecraft]

 
 rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a 
 solid dash over 22 wpm...
John K7FD<<<
How does it know you're using a cootie?  I exceed 22 wpm with a straight key or 
a bug, sometimes operating  35wpm and higher the latter with no probs. Straight 
key, cootie, or bug are all just a contact closure. How would the rig know the 
diff?
An external keyer is still essentially a contact closure and will go higher 
yet. 

Lou W7HV
On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:15:12 AM MDT, Skip Davis via Elecraft 
 wrote:  
 
 Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks 
on the front left hand side :)

Skip Davis, NC9O
Sent from my iPhone
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com   
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] K3S connections for Winlink Express -

[Chris Kimball]

1. The single USB cable is all that's needed.

2. The USB setting was already set to RS232, all that's needed.

In using the Elecraft Utility to check the connection, the rate for the
connection was 38,400 b/s. I had entered only 9,600 b/s into Winlink
Express. 

The Elecraft K3S operation manual explains how to check which port on the
computer that the K3S appears on. (Windows: Device manager/ Ports:
plug/unplug the device) The K3S was on COM4. (Although no other devices were
attached, COM3, was taken by something.  Beware.)

Actions: In Winlink Express / ARDOP Connection settings/ Radio: Set both
ports to COM4 and the rate to 38,400 b/s. Neat!

Chris

NQ8Z



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] OT: CW Touch Keyer P1PAD

[ws6x.ars]

Sorry for the intrusion. (In my defense, I HAVE used this paddle to key 5 
Elecraft radios over the years!)
In my recent move to a new QTH the manual for my P1PAD touch paddle seems to 
have taken flight. Does anyone in this group have access to the manual? Would 
you please contact me off list?
The https://www.cwtouchkeyer.com/ website seems to be "information only" 
status. They advertise their products and invite questions, but I get no 
response to my queries. Multiple Internet searches have not coughed up any info 
about this paddle. I have found  the manual for the paddle and keyer combo, but 
zip for the paddle alone.
Thanks!
Jim - WS6X   

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Bill Frantz]

On 6/9/21 at 3:01 AM, n...@arrl.net (Bob Wilson, N6TV) commented:


The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in
the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no
ringing.


I frequently run my K3 with a 250 Hz crystal filter and the DSP 
at 50 or 100 on a weak CW signal in crowded conditions. While 
the K4 audio may be significantly better, the K3 is no slouch in 
this configuration and most of the time it beats the audio 
peaking filter.


[Still waiting for the kit. :-)]

73 Bill AE6JV

-
Bill Frantz| Airline peanut bag: "Produced  | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | in a facility that processes   | 150 
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts." - Duh | 
Peterborough, NH 03458


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] OT: CW Touch Keyer P1PAD

[Pete Lascell]

Is this what you need?  
https://www.westmountainradio.com/pdf/CW_Touchkeyer_Manual.pdf

Pete W4WWQ


- Original Message -
From: 
To: , 'Elecraft Reflector' 
Sent: 6/9/2021 11:52:34 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] OT: CW Touch Keyer P1PAD


Sorry for the intrusion. (In my defense, I HAVE used this paddle to key 5 
Elecraft radios over the years!)
In my recent move to a new QTH the manual for my P1PAD touch paddle seems to 
have taken flight. Does anyone in this group have access to the manual? Would 
you please contact me off list?
The https://www.cwtouchkeyer.com/ website seems to be "information only" 
status. They advertise their products and invite questions, but I get no 
response to my queries. Multiple Internet searches have not coughed up any info 
about this paddle. I have found  the manual for the paddle and keyer combo, but 
zip for the paddle alone.
Thanks!
Jim - WS6X   

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to plasc...@gmail.com 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ENOUGH...

[Julia Tuttle]

Yeah, I'm not a fan either.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 11:52 Richard Isaacs  wrote:

> This sounds more like Channel 19 and CB than Ham Radio.
>
> W3RKI
>
> > On Jun 9, 2021, at 10:47 AM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> >
> > I did, it's the KX3.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 08:16 Bill Steffey NY9H  wrote:
> >
> >>   GET A LIFE   , PICK A RADIO   TURN IT ON AND GO PLAY RADIO.
> >>
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to goldporsche...@aol.com
>
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] Old keys and modern rigs like K4 [was Re: Giving Up]

[Drew AF2Z]

I don't know but am happy to speculate wildly...

Unlike straight keys and bugs, cootie key (sideswiper) sending is almost 
universally heavily weighted: the time between dits and/or dahs is less 
than the duration of a dit. My guess is that this particular rig's 
debounce(?) processing routine could be having trouble interpreting that 
keying characteristic. (I once had a PicoKeyer that had a peculiar 
problem with straight key input above a certain speed, later fixed in 
firmware.)


BTW, heavily weighted code can be perfectly readable to CW operators, 
may even be preferred under some propagation conditions or noise, 
whereas software decoders may have a problem with it. (RBN & fldigi 
decoders seem to have a problem interpreting more heavily weighted 
sending.) IOW, don't automatically blame the key/operator for poor sending.


It would be useful to mechanical key users if modern rigs (hint: K4) had 
an option for varying the parameters in the debounce (or whatever) 
routine to suit various characteristics of bugs, sideswipers & straight 
keys. It is not uncommon for a key to work fine with one rig and produce 
keying glitches on another.


Hoping to be using my 100+ year old Bunnell Double Speed cootie to key a 
brand new K4 at some point...


73,
Drew
AF2Z




On 06/09/21 09:58, Louandzip via Elecraft wrote:
  
  rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a solid dash over 22 wpm...

John K7FD<<<
How does it know you're using a cootie?  I exceed 22 wpm with a straight key or 
a bug, sometimes operating  35wpm and higher the latter with no probs. Straight 
key, cootie, or bug are all just a contact closure. How would the rig know the 
diff?
An external keyer is still essentially a contact closure and will go higher yet.

Lou W7HV
 On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:15:12 AM MDT, Skip Davis via Elecraft 
 wrote:
  
  Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks on the front left hand side :)


Skip Davis, NC9O
Sent from my iPhone
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to pu...@af2z.net


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] P3 Frequency Display

[Ray Spreadbury via Elecraft]

My new to me P3 is not displaying the frequency but rather at the top has a 0 
in the middle and +5, and -5 at either end if the spread is set to 10 for 
example. How do I get the frequency displayed please?
73 Ray G3XLG


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[John Nicholson]

It appears to sense the spacing within each character sent. If manually sent CW 
is over 22 wpm…and the spacing is close enough…the FTdx101D will blur the dits 
together. The letter ‘H’ turns into a long dash. No other radio I have here 
(thirteen) does this. I recorded spectrum scope videos on a separate receiver 
and sent them to Yaesu. Their response was ‘use a paddle and don’t bother us.’ 
But I’m over it; I just use my IC-7610 or RGO One when I use my cootie :)

John K7FD

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 8:02 AM, Louandzip via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a 
> solid dash over 22 wpm...
> John K7FD<<<
> How does it know you're using a cootie?  I exceed 22 wpm with a straight key 
> or a bug, sometimes operating  35wpm and higher the latter with no probs. 
> Straight key, cootie, or bug are all just a contact closure. How would the 
> rig know the diff?
> An external keyer is still essentially a contact closure and will go higher 
> yet. 
> 
> Lou W7HV
>On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:15:12 AM MDT, Skip Davis via Elecraft 
>  wrote:  
> 
> Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks 
> on the front left hand side :)
> 
> Skip Davis, NC9O
> Sent from my iPhone
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com   
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] P3 Frequency Display

[Martin Sole]

That sounds like either, there is no RS232 connection cable between the 
K3(S) and the P3 or, the P3 radio configuration is not properly set. 
Check the P3 manual for radio configuration and RS232 port speed etc.


Martin, HS0ZED


On 9/6/64 19:08, Ray Spreadbury via Elecraft wrote:

My new to me P3 is not displaying the frequency but rather at the top has a 0 
in the middle and +5, and -5 at either end if the spread is set to 10 for 
example. How do I get the frequency displayed please?
73 Ray G3XLG


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to hs0...@gmail.com


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] A Clarification: IC-7300 vs FTDX10

[Ray]

To: HB9CVQ……. Sir.
 Thanks for the Real Information on these Radio’s, will apply. 
WA6VAB  Ray K3 
 


From: hb9...@hispeed.ch
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 4:52 AM
To: 'Morgan Bailey'; 'Ray'
Cc: 'Elecraft'
Subject: AW: [Elecraft] A Clarification: IC-7300 vs FTDX10

Yes, I agree, I also prefer the FTDX101MP  (own it 1 + year/CW, SSB) and have 3 
K3S/P3 Systems…..but...no such thing as perfect…here is my story from my 
qrz.com blog
I now use and recommend ( e.g. DSP even Better) the YAESU May 2021 SW/FW update 
now. 

I own a YAESU FTDX101MP ( SW/FW upgrade April 2020 ) since 1 Year and am very 
impressed by the high performance (I do SSB , also QRO CW; ragchewing/ DXing/ 
Contesting). This unit YAESU is partly even better than Tx / RX K3S, but not 
for QSK (relays chattering) .
I would like to bring the following, unexpected findings -should get fixed 
a.s.a.p.- to your attention (or did I overlook something?):
1. Voice Messages (e.g. CQ)  can be recorded e.g. in SSB and CW. Bacon Mode 
(automatic , interval repeat) is only possible in CW not in SSB , very 
impractical.
2. Incoming signals like QSOs cannot be recorded by the TRX directly.
3. The TX PWR Meter should read PEP not average.
4. 60m (5MHz) there is no sharp preselector available (VC Tune).  It is also 
not possible to activate VC Tune on 12m, 6m.
5. RX: IPO to AMP1 to AMP2 is about a 10dB difference each step (20dB range) , 
Input RX Attenuator is correct with -6, -12, -18 dB
6. S-Meter Calibration 160m to 6m is not always real as (IARU Definition) 
S9=-73dBm or 50uV/50Ohm. Yes, below S9 there are -3dB steps per S-Unit, above 
S9 meter indication is correct as shown
7. The band scope needs different sensitivity settings for viewing RX and own 
TX signals. If optimized for RX, you will see a completly distorted/ 
overloading signal in TX mode !
 
• 160m to 40m:  real S9 (AMP1) is more like S 7.5 on the meter, with IPO more 
like S 4.5 e.g. on 40m
• 20 to 6m: real S9 is about S9 (AMP1) on the meter
• Knowing about this I can live with it, easily. On the low bands the S-Meter 
is not very generous.
A much more critical issue for some RX denoising applications is …
Tricky Antenna port selection , accessibility to Input RX1 and RX2 individually 
not possible (diversity or local QRM reduction by phasing?)
• There are 3 Ant. Ports.
• There is a RX1 out and RX2 out port, obviously only , individually selectable 
via menu
• Normal Configuration: T1 is TX and RX Port-> measuring the RX signal 
attenuation between T1 (AMP1 , ATT 0dB, VC Tune on) and e.g. RX1 out:
It varies, from 160 to 30m…15m  from -6db/-9dB,  on 12m it is suddenly +5dB, on 
10m there is 0dB. On the low bands there is a considerable signal loss!
• Special RX Ant. Configuration: port One (#3) can be configured e.g. as RX on 
3 only , while T1 is only transmit
• Configuration R3 (RX only: AMP1 , ATT 0dB, VC Tune on), T1 TX only. Measuring 
the RX signal attenuation now between RX only import and e.g. RX1 out: -10 dB 
on 160m, 80m -3dB, 60/40/30/20m -5dB, 17m -7dB, 12m +6dB, 10m +2dB.
The mostly relatively sharp frequency band selection (VC Tune) is clearly 
visible.
• Problem/Dilemma with using an external RX phasing/ QRM Eliminator, there is 
now a missing function of routing the Main (TX) /RX Ant 1 Signal safely through 
to an RX outport (as in K3S). In FTDX101MP it is either RX all on Ant 1 or all 
RX on R3.
• The phasing unit NCC1 with me has 2 channels: A noisy main Antenna, B noise 
local noise pick-up by a 1m diameter magnetic broadband loop. The S/N improved, 
vector combined output port signal must go to the Transceiver RX input port ( 
e.g. R3).
• Therefore the safe routing through of the main antenna (only Rx function ) is 
badly missed here.
• Envisioned external solution: Order/Installation of a separate, “Modular 
Receive Antenna Interface for Transceivers DXE-RTR-2” in front of the FTDX1001MP

I also own a Elecraft K3S and did some EMI (Electromag. Interference) coupling 
experiment into the power supply (PS) port. This is another, aside from antenna 
port, important EMI port and potentially causing uncontrolled RX coupling. The 
effect is often overlooked. Conducted EMI -on the PS- of TRX ( Transceiver) 
results in backdoor coupling , if e.g. using external 12V (13.8V DC) external 
PS in a station.
Investigation: Elecraft K3S ( minus on chassis ground and grounded by terminal 
(stud) to station ground => risk of loop formation with PE protective earth):
Lab-Testing in a well-controlled coupling experiment (TRX Antenna terminated 
with DL 50 Ohm , 12V Battery operated-20 dB choked off, EMI injected 
capacitively into TRX plus, minus on GND )  
• one can show S3 on the S-Meter on 80m for already some 20mVpp CM voltage ( 
12V DC plus/minus input of TRX).
• In the same test on 20m it takes just 30mVpp to reach S8
We have seen over 100mVpp induced on the 13.8V DC supply voltage in a K3S 
experiment 28MHz, 60W into Dummy Load 50Ohm.
Using a MDS-clamp (EMC Test 30M-1GHz, --CISPR 16

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Louandzip via Elecraft]

 >>>the FTdx101D will blur the dits together...John K7FD<<< 

This morning I've tried replicating the issue with my straight key sending dits 
as fast as I can (~23 wpm), a bug at something over 40 wpm, and by hooking up a 
paddle as cootie (not a cootie user myself).  On the cootie, that fastest burst 
of dits I can physically produce I estimate to be roughly 37wpm comparing to 
dits from a keyer set to that speed. I get no blurring listing to the side tone 
or listening on another rig while transmitting with the MP.
I know you've also complained about how your side tone sounds.  Mine does not 
sound like a pure sign wave, but sounds very similar to actual signals heard 
over the air. Of course actual signals are not pure sign tones, either at their 
origin or coming out of the RX. (phase noise, non-linearities, and all that...)

FWIW: I basically only operate CW, mainly paddles and keyer, and sometimes a 
straight key.  I'm very hesitant to inflict my bug fist on anyone. 

Lou W7HV
   On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 10:10:07 AM MDT, John Nicholson 
 wrote:  
 
 It appears to sense the spacing within each character sent. If manually sent 
CW is over 22 wpm…and the spacing is close enough…the FTdx101D will blur the 
dits together. The letter ‘H’ turns into a long dash. No other radio I have 
here (thirteen) does this. I recorded spectrum scope videos on a separate 
receiver and sent them to Yaesu. Their response was ‘use a paddle and don’t 
bother us.’ But I’m over it; I just use my IC-7610 or RGO One when I use my 
cootie :)

John K7FD

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 8:02 AM, Louandzip via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a 
> solid dash over 22 wpm...
> John K7FD<<<
> How does it know you're using a cootie?  I exceed 22 wpm with a straight key 
> or a bug, sometimes operating  35wpm and higher the latter with no probs. 
> Straight key, cootie, or bug are all just a contact closure. How would the 
> rig know the diff?
> An external keyer is still essentially a contact closure and will go higher 
> yet. 
> 
> Lou W7HV
>    On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:15:12 AM MDT, Skip Davis via Elecraft 
> wrote:  
> 
> Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks 
> on the front left hand side :)
> 
> Skip Davis, NC9O
> Sent from my iPhone
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com  
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net

  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[George Thornton]

I am not active in CW, most of my HF work is voice.  I do some contesting but I 
have conflicting time demands that make it difficult  to spend a lot of time in 
the operating chair.  

The K3 has been my rig of choice and I am very comfortable with the rig.I 
am of course intrigued by the K4.

Improved audio alone would be a reason to upgrade.  My biggest concern with the 
K3 is the quality of the audio.  It has a tinny, harsh sound that can wear on 
you if you are in the contesting chair for long hours.  I have moderated the 
sound by use of a pair of Sounds Sweet speakers and I bring those bulky beasts 
with me when I go into the field.   

I am looking for an opportunity to compare the K3 and K4 side by side. I also 
want to see how the K4HD shakes out.





-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Bob Wilson, N6TV
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 12:02 AM
To: Doug Person 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

Doug,

You didn't mention what rig you are going to buy instead.  Be sure to be aware 
of its limitations before you buy it.

For example, the FTdx101MP has three show-stoppers (for a CW op like me), 
despite it's impressive numbers in the Sherwood table:

   - Poor QSK performance (the clicking keying relay cannot be disabled,
   same problem as the IC-7300)
   - No CW sidetone output on USB Audio CODEC-- cannot record both ends of
   your QSOs (a contest requirement in some contests)
   - Mouse wheel is not supported for fine tuning or RIT (I think).  K4
   supports this very well

As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in the 
Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3.  The K4 audio is just 
SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a pileup calls.  
That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement.
The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in the 
K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no ringing.

73,
Bob, N6TV


On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:34 PM Doug Person  wrote:

> Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far 
> down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. 
> First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it 
> one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize 
> that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never 
> take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a 
> new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers 
> substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to 
> do the same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. 
> Innovative in some, perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm 
> not so sure. When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. 
> I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is 
> unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point the price/performance 
> just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete
> K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the 
> waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and 
> whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 
> less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs.
> After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for 
> me, the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every 
> other significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I 
> would jump on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I 
> apologize if feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving 
> the list since I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called 
> Vaporware.
>
> Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s.
>
> Doug -- K0DXV
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> n...@arrl.net
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message 
delivered to gt...@seanet.com 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Josh Fiden]

With the top tier radios all being so good, what interests me is how my head 
feels after a few hours of picking out signals. 

73
Josh W6XU 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 12:03 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV  wrote:
> 
> the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3.  The K4 audio
> is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a
> pileup calls.  That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement.

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] P3 Frequency Display

[Ray Spreadbury via Elecraft]

The K3S is connected using the Elecraft RS232P3 cable and in the P3, the radio 
selected is the K3 and the RS232 speed is 38400 baud. 
I believe the cable is working OK as I am connecting from the P3 RS232 port to 
my PC at 38400 for CAT control in my logger.
Any other ideas please?
73 Ray G3XLG

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] K4 manuals updated

[Wayne Burdick]

"Introduction to the Elecraft K4," the printed manual supplied with the radio, 
is now at revision C2. It's available on our manuals page:

 https://elecraft.com/pages/manuals-downloads

The built-in operating manual was also recently updated to revision C6. It can 
viewed at the radio itself or at the download link on this same page.

Among other updates, both manuals now include information on transverter bands. 
They also discuss the new macro editor, which is used to customize programmable 
switches on the K4 and K-Pod.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Wes]

You need to go back and read what I wrote.


On 6/9/2021 6:14 AM, Skip Davis via Elecraft wrote:

Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks 
on the front left hand side :)

Skip Davis, NC9O
Sent from my iPhone
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wes_n...@triconet.org



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] Help with KIO3b RJ45 to Windows 10

[Bob KD7YZ]

Hello K3,

I need some help trying to make Win-10 talk to the K3.
The K3 Utility just wont find the K3.

I've only got the RJ45 like connector as a while back the KIO3B's USB 
receptacle just fell off  the board.

I've tried K3 Config RS232 to 38400 as-well-as USB.

any help would be wonderful
-- 
Best regards,
Bob KD7YZ

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] P3 Frequency Display

[w4sc]

1) Ref pp 19 of K3S owners manual.
2)  Make SURE the RJ45 is plugged in .  You must heat the latch “click” 
plugging this cable in, or it may not be making connection.

de Ben W4SC

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Richards]

Mr. Brown and a few others repeatedly claim Yaesu rigs cause all sorts 
of noise, yet fail to substantiate or provide serious proof beyond 
quoting Rob Sherwood NC0B who,. purportedly, has a neighbor with a noisy 
FT3000, and mentioning early FT1000s which Yaesu eventually fixed along 
the way.    Mr. Brown accumulated graphs published by the ARRL Lab, 
which are interesting, yet fail to prove the point - mostly, I am told, 
because the problem involves a DIFFERENT TYPE of noise, which ARRL Lab 
Chief Allison told me was not being measured, although it had plans to 
do so in the future. Thus, these claims are essentially anecdotal 
hearsay with several ops merely repeating what others have said.


Without serious technical substantiation, these claims are somewhat 
reckless with undue chilling effect on owning and using Yaesu and other 
brand radios, as if Elecraft is all good and without fault. I was truly 
impressed and caught off guard when Mr. Wayne at Elecraft admitted its 
transmitters are using old-school technology and could stand much 
improvement, along with the rest of the crowd - a frankly humble and 
forthright statement which earned my respect. I live in a fairly large 
metropolitan area with a lot of other hams, and no one is complaining 
about noisy transmitters from any brand. This seems to be an obsession 
of a very few hams who enjoy mounting the soap box.


I wish everyone would be as careful and as measured expressing their 
take. as Mr. Wayne.      K8JHR



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Gwen Patton]

I have one of those legal-limit hams about 2.5 km from my house. Seems a
nice enough guy, except that he uses 1.5kw for EVERYTHING. When he gets on
40m, I hear him on 2 other bands via harmonics. He splatters all over 40 so
there's no reason for me to even have my rig turned on when he starts
transmitting. I can't tell if it's a bad radio on his end or just front end
overload on my end. It's frustrating to try to do a bit of CW and find that
I can hear him almost as well on 15m as on 40 and 20. I haven't checked
10m, but my guess is I'll hear him there, too.

I talked to him about it, and he basically blamed it on my radio's
insufficient rejection. It's a KX3. Is he right, or should he check his
radio for unstable harmonics?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 4:24 AM Jim Brown  wrote:

> Exactly right, Vic. A dirty rig, whether generating clicks or phase
> noise, is putting his trash on YOUR frequency. You are screwed by his
> choice of a lousy radio. And he doesn't care. I've got a neighbor like
> that.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 6/9/2021 12:45 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
> > I live in a place where there is a ham with a legal limit rig and a big
> > beam less than 1 km. away. Antennas are line of sight. His signal
> > renders about 10-20 kHz of the (CW) band unusable, with lesser effects
> > extending out farther. He does not have clicks; it is phase noise (or
> > something like that).
> >
> > I have experimented with attenuators and they have NO effect on the
> > apparent width of his signal. Therefore I conclude that the problem is
> > not in my receiver (K3, not S, upgraded synthesizers).
> >
> > I don't know what kind of transceiver he is using, but I think more
> > attention needs to be paid to transmitter cleanliness, rather than to
> > continue the race for dynamic range.
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ard...@gmail.com
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Richards]

Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is simply 
out of line.


The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his rig in 
good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering standards.   
He uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing problems.   
But then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor operator 
as a bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the operator is 
somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with crowded 
conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever whined 
about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed experts 
living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible epidemic.   
Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current 
topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the time.   I 
suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to talk about.


Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of 
personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE 
OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a 
hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right. 
Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Dave]

Buy an attenuator, and a tinySA, or get an SDRPlay, and run the Spectrum 
Analyzer software.  Take a few SA shots, that will tell you if it is 
him, or you.


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/9/21 8:46 AM, Gwen Patton wrote:

I have one of those legal-limit hams about 2.5 km from my house. Seems a
nice enough guy, except that he uses 1.5kw for EVERYTHING. When he gets on
40m, I hear him on 2 other bands via harmonics. He splatters all over 40 so
there's no reason for me to even have my rig turned on when he starts
transmitting. I can't tell if it's a bad radio on his end or just front end
overload on my end. It's frustrating to try to do a bit of CW and find that
I can hear him almost as well on 15m as on 40 and 20. I haven't checked
10m, but my guess is I'll hear him there, too.

I talked to him about it, and he basically blamed it on my radio's
insufficient rejection. It's a KX3. Is he right, or should he check his
radio for unstable harmonics?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 4:24 AM Jim Brown  wrote:


Exactly right, Vic. A dirty rig, whether generating clicks or phase
noise, is putting his trash on YOUR frequency. You are screwed by his
choice of a lousy radio. And he doesn't care. I've got a neighbor like
that.

73, Jim K9YC

On 6/9/2021 12:45 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:

I live in a place where there is a ham with a legal limit rig and a big
beam less than 1 km. away. Antennas are line of sight. His signal
renders about 10-20 kHz of the (CW) band unusable, with lesser effects
extending out farther. He does not have clicks; it is phase noise (or
something like that).

I have experimented with attenuators and they have NO effect on the
apparent width of his signal. Therefore I conclude that the problem is
not in my receiver (K3, not S, upgraded synthesizers).

I don't know what kind of transceiver he is using, but I think more
attention needs to be paid to transmitter cleanliness, rather than to
continue the race for dynamic range.


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ard...@gmail.com


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Dave]

Blasphemer...

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net


On 6/9/21 4:38 PM, Richards wrote:

as if Elecraft is all good and without fault

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Julia Tuttle]

Nobody was blaming the operator. Gwen was asking whose *radio* was to blame.

And "hey, your radio seems to be putting out some pretty strong
interference on the harmonics, can you fix that?" isn't a personal attack.
The answer might be "no, I have no idea how or why it is", though.

But, regardless of how "dirty" a radio is or isn't, it's reasonable to ask
someone to turn the power down when they don't need it -- it can overload
receivers, it can amplify any noise the radio is putting out, and it takes
up that spectrum in a wider geographic area than is needed.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 20:14 Richards  wrote:

> Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is simply
> out of line.
>
> The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his rig in
> good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering standards.
> He uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing problems.
> But then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor operator
> as a bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the operator is
> somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with crowded
> conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever whined
> about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed experts
> living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible epidemic.
> Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current
> topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the time.   I
> suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to talk about.
>
> Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of
> personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE
> OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a
> hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right.
> Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR
>
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Dave]

I must respectfully disagree sir...

The ordinary ham should be able to tell when his/her rig is out of spec. 
 The ordinary ham should be able to operate his/her rig correctly. 
That is just no longer the case.  There are a lot of folks out there 
that don't even know how a repeater works at the most basic of levels. 
They are operating HF rigs with no understanding of how they work, and 
no understanding of what limits they need to maintain.


They create a mess on the air, and should be told about it.  Nicely, but 
told non the less.  It is far better to have a fellow ham tell you you 
have an issue, than have the FCC tell you...


Speaking of the FCC, I don't remember the FCC turning over 
responsibility for signal quality to the manufactures of radios, 
absolving the operator of all responsibility...  It is the operators job 
to make sure he/she is operating their radio correctly, and within 
tolerance, period, end of discussion, the operator is responsible.


If he/she can not tell there is a problem, than that ham should not be 
allowed to transmit...


There are dirty transmitters all over, and they meet FCC specs...  How 
can that be you might ask yourself?


In a lot of cases, the operator is not knowledgeable in how to drive the 
transmitter properly, or that low voltages feeding the transmitter can 
cause issues, or that triggering ALC in FT8 causes issues, there are any 
number of settings the Amateur can screw up, and the rig meets FCC 
specs...


So no, it is not "out of line" to let someone know their transmitter is 
spraying crap.


On 6/9/21 5:02 PM, Richards wrote:
Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is simply 
out of line.


The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his rig in 
good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering standards. He 
uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing problems. But 
then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor operator as a 
bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the operator is 
somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with crowded 
conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever whined 
about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed experts 
living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible epidemic. 
Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current 
topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the time.   I 
suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to talk about.


Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of 
personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE 
OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a 
hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right. 
Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net

Dave
https://www.nk7z.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Buddy Brannan]

Not to mention the FCC rules (remember those? We had them on the test…) say 
that we should use the minimum amount of power necessary. 


Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: bu...@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962



> On Jun 9, 2021, at 8:46 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> Nobody was blaming the operator. Gwen was asking whose *radio* was to blame.
> 
> And "hey, your radio seems to be putting out some pretty strong
> interference on the harmonics, can you fix that?" isn't a personal attack.
> The answer might be "no, I have no idea how or why it is", though.
> 
> But, regardless of how "dirty" a radio is or isn't, it's reasonable to ask
> someone to turn the power down when they don't need it -- it can overload
> receivers, it can amplify any noise the radio is putting out, and it takes
> up that spectrum in a wider geographic area than is needed.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 20:14 Richards  wrote:
> 
>> Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is simply
>> out of line.
>> 
>> The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his rig in
>> good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering standards.
>> He uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing problems.
>> But then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor operator
>> as a bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the operator is
>> somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with crowded
>> conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever whined
>> about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed experts
>> living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible epidemic.
>> Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current
>> topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the time.   I
>> suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to talk about.
>> 
>> Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of
>> personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE
>> OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a
>> hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right.
>> Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR
>> 
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to bu...@brannan.name 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Wes]

I'm not sure those toys are up to the task.

On 6/9/2021 5:30 PM, Dave wrote:
Buy an attenuator, and a tinySA, or get an SDRPlay, and run the Spectrum 
Analyzer software.  Take a few SA shots, that will tell you if it is him, or you.


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Jim Brown]

On 6/9/2021 5:51 PM, Dave wrote:
There are dirty transmitters all over, and they meet FCC specs...  How 
can that be you might ask yourself?


FCC Rules include numeric limits for harmonics. The Rules include a 
provision that a transmitted signal shall occupy no more bandwidth then 
needed for the method/mode of transmission. As a member of the Standards 
Committee of the Audio Engineering Society, we used clauses like this so 
that we didn't have to cover every possibility. The Rule essentially 
says, you've got to be as clean as a well designed, well operated 
product/station transmitting the same mode.


The summary I prepared of FCC Lab measurements of the occupied bandwidth 
of then-current CW transmitters clearly showed that some occupied FAR 
more bandwidth than others. At that time, the K3 was the cleanest, the 
FTDX5000 was the dirtiest. My process was simple -- ARRL sent me the 
data in electronic form, I plugged into a spreadsheet (actually, several 
pages of a spreadsheet, one for clicks, another for phase noise), and 
plotted noise amplitude vs frequency for all of them on the same graph.


That report is here. http://k9yc.com/TXNoise.pdf

What that Rule says is that if one manufacturer's rigs occupies 500 Hz 
CW bandwidth 50 dB down from the key-down signal, others should meet 
that performance, or at least approach it within a reasonable time for 
engineering departments to catch up. The K3 was introduced in 2007, 
first sold, I think, in 2008. Someone will correct me if needed. Chief 
Engineer Wayne Burdick has made no secret of what he did to achieve 
that, and after Flex's 6700 measured badly at the lab for bandwidth, 
their engineers did something to correct it (maybe Wayne's waveshaping?) 
and reports were that it was much cleaner. AFAIK, ARRL has not 
re-measured it, and I've not been able to get an owner to bring one over 
here to measure.


As to Yaesu's SSB bandwidth -- I first learned about this hearing a 
couple of locals on 6M, several months apart. The first was splattering 
badly, calling CQ, no one answering, so I called to let him know, and 
suggested that maybe he was overdriving his amp. No, he responded, no 
amp. What rig? A current model Yaesu. A few months later, same story, 
except but the second guy and I knew each other. We went through every 
thing I could think of, first, of course, turning off his amp.


My method of studying this is simply to look at the signal on the P3 
waterfall. The waterfall trace of a clean signal is a vertical bar about 
2-7-2.8 kHz wide, with sides that are straight lines, while one that is 
splattering will see horizontal breakouts from  that bar on voice peaks.


For general operation, I adjust my spectrum display (the top graph) for 
a 32 dB difference between top and bottom of the screen (42 dB for high 
power contests), and I set averaging for the maximum value. The result 
in the spectrum will show how much bandwidth is being occupied, and I 
can freeze the screen, move the cursor along it, read frequency and note 
how many dB down the sidebands are away from the carrier. The signals 
I've measured have sidebands that are typically only 20 dB down from the 
strength of the transmitted audio for about 2.5 kHz on both sides of the 
signal. In other words, for LSB, 2.5 kHz above the suppressed carrier, 
and 8 kHz below the suppressed carrier. Sadly, because there are no 
numbers associated with it (in the Rules), it gets ignored both by 
manufacturers and ARRL, who gives passing (sometimes glowing) reviews to 
dirty products.


The same spectrum measurement can be made by switching to peak mode, 
accumulating peaks for a while, then killing the signal by switching off 
the antenna input. In peak mode, of course, the reference point for the 
vertical scale must be shifted.


With all of this, one must learn how to set up their P3 (or other 
spectrum/waterfall display) to separate the forest from the trees. With 
averaging turned on, random noise averages out, leaving signals and 
electronic noise. Set the bottom of this noise to the bottom the 
display. This will also make signals jump out of both the spectrum 
display and the waterfall.


The K3/P3, especially with the SVGA module, is a very nice test 
instrument! Most SDRs I've seen are significantly better, with greater 
dynamic range on screen, wider possible bandwidths, an frequency 
resolution that is as good or better.


73, Jim K9YC

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Dave]

Actually for this use they are...  Someone did a compare of the tinySA 
to an HP, and it was within a few dB as long as it was overdriven.  We 
are looking for splatter or harmonics, not doing a proof of performance.


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/9/21 7:10 PM, Wes wrote:

I'm not sure those toys are up to the task.

On 6/9/2021 5:30 PM, Dave wrote:
Buy an attenuator, and a tinySA, or get an SDRPlay, and run the 
Spectrum Analyzer software.  Take a few SA shots, that will tell you 
if it is him, or you.


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Jim Brown]

On 6/9/2021 8:00 PM, Dave wrote:
Actually for this use they are...  Someone did a compare of the tinySA 
to an HP, and it was within a few dB as long as it was overdriven.  We 
are looking for splatter or harmonics, not doing a proof of performance.


A big part of it is knowing what you're doing, and keeping any 
non-linearities in the system below the level that matters. It also 
depends on the quality of the software running the system.


73, Jim K9YC
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Bill Johnson]

Here, here, Julie!
Bill
K9YEQ

Have a great day!
Bill


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Julia Tuttle 
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 9:36:00 PM
To: Al Lorona 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

I'm gonna second "above all, have fun"!

If it brings you joy to have the highest performing rig you can, cool, and
I hope it serves you well.

But if a different aspect of a radio, or even one you can't name, brings
you joy, that's also cool, and I'm happy it makes you happy!

My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood list, it doesn't have a panadapter
(...yet), and connecting it up for digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest...

...but I'll be darned if it isn't just fun as shit to use. The UI is well
thought out, the VFO knob is a work of art, (surprisingly) the compact size
makes it more approachable/friendly for it, and the community here around
it (as heated as it can get) is tighter-knit.

None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get what makes *you*
happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the same.

Cheers,

Julie

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona  wrote:

> When this subject appeared last week I had composed a reply but then slept
> on it and canceled it the next morning, as I probably do 80% of the time.
>
> In this my second attempt, let me say that I've always been amazed at the
> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of hams hang on his latest tests.
> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some way, that can mean many
> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.
>
> And yet, if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places
> like Dayton expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would
> you answer the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any
> good?"
>
> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.
>
> But we constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which
> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal
> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A
> must be better because the gurus say so."
>
> Yet, there will always be guys who'll be tortured owning a transceiver
> that has the 2nd highest dynamic range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never
> mind if they can't actually hear the differences.
>
> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual operating that's most
> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a comment about his
> tuning knob, and although some of you might have laughed at that... it's
> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
>
> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic range:
> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this ranking
> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has said that
> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this post from 2016
> by one of the old guys on this reflector:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html
>
>
> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone
> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There
> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the least.
>
> Above all, have fun.
>
> Al W6LX/4
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to k9...@live.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

[Bill Johnson]

I prefer those who are tired of waiting, give up so if your in front of me, I 
will move up!
Bill
K9YEQ

Have a great day!
Bill


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Barry Simpson 
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 12:59:13 AM
To: Dave Erickson 
Cc: Elecraft Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up

Well said Dave

I am a rig tragic like you and many others.

I have always got to buy and try all the newest rigs and then move them on
if I am not that smitten.

My current rigs/keepers are a K3 (2008 vintage), TS890, Omni 6+, Orion 2
(three of those !), SunSDR2DX.

Been and gone rigs include the IC7851, IC7610, TS990 (only because it got
too heavy for me so I got the TS890), MB1, Flex 6600M and a number of
others.

I have not yet succumbed to the FTDX101 or the FTDX10 but may give one or
the other a try. However, one of my main requirements is good quiet QSK so
I am not sure that the Yaesu is suitable and the bandscope strikes me as
horrible.

I too have had a no deposit K4D on order for about two years. I intend to
just let the order sit there and see if anything eventually happens and if
it does I expect I will buy it !!

Barry  VK2BJ

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 13:28, Dave Erickson  wrote:

> On 6/8/2021 12:25 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:
> > Not so, Doug.
> >
> > My K3, including accessories and filters, was $4,500 in 2007. That's
> > $5,722 in today's dollars.
> >
> > A K4 with all its advanced technology at $4,600 (your quote) is a steal
> > compared to a K3.
> >
> > The word "expensive" can be applied to the K4 (or any product) only when
> > answering the question, "compared to what?"  Otherwise it has no
> > meaning.  Nothing is expensive or inexpensive on its own.  The word has
> > relevance only when comparing the price of two or more products.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Kent  K9ZTV
> >
> >
> > On 6/7/2021 9:33 PM, Doug Person, KØDXV, wrote:
> >> ... With a tuner the [K4] price is $4600 making it one of the most
> >> expensive transceivers on the market ... When the K3 came out it was
> >> very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with
> >> the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio.
> > .
>
> All,
>
> I followed along this thread and I think it's not useful to compare the
> K4 to the K3. The K3 to the K2 makes sense, even a KX3 to a K3 as they
> are more similar.
>
> I think the only radio on the market right now that can be compared to
> the K4 is the 7610 from ICOM. And frankly, it's not so good for the K4.
>
> A little over a year ago, I was in the market for a high end transceiver
> and basically decided between waiting for a K4 or buy a 7610. I bought
> the Icom. While I am sure the K4 is a better radio in some ways, the
> question is: is it twice as good? (Add tuner, second ADC, etc.)
>
> Looking at the specs, I am shocked the K4 is shipping with only one ADC.
> At the price point and with the 7610 on the market for $2900 all day
> long it's a serious flaw for me.
>
> The K4 also has no pre-selector that I can tell and that is useful too
> me at times, especially on the low bands.
>
> IMO the competition for the K4 is the 7610 as they are architecturally
> very similar.
>
> Maybe an Apache ANON 7000 DLE would be in there as well but the Icom
> beats that too IMO. (Since it has buttons, and a tuner, and pin-diode
> QSK etc)
>
> That said, I have since bought a K3 to go with the 7610 and will likely
> get a K4 and an ANON in the future so I am as hopeless as the rest.
>
> 73's all.
>
> --
> Dave Erickson
> AB0R
> 73
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk...@optusnet.com.au
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to k9...@live.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Gary K9GS]

I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've 
worked?73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: Bill Johnson  Date: 
6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona , Julia 
Tuttle  Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here, 
Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great day!BillFrom: 
elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on behalf 
of Julia Tuttle Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 9:36:00 
PMTo: Al Lorona Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second "above 
all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest performing rig you can, 
cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different aspect of a radio, or 
even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool, and I'm happy it 
makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood list, it doesn't have a 
panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for digital modes is a bit of a rat's 
nest..but I'll be darned if it isn't just fun as shit to use. The UI is 
wellthought out, the VFO knob is a work of art, (surprisingly) the compact 
sizemakes it more approachable/friendly for it, and the community here aroundit 
(as heated as it can get) is tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet 
or lab testing Get what makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next 
ham can do the same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona 
 wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I had 
composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next morning, as I 
probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say that I've 
always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of hams 
hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some way, 
that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And yet, if there 
were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like Dayton expounding 
about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you answer the questions, 
"Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">> You'd probably get on 
the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we constantly have gurus telling 
us that Brand A is the 'best' which> horrifies us if up until now we liked 
Brand B better. Against our personal> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I 
used to like Brand B, but Brand A> must be better because the gurus say so.">> 
Yet, there will always be guys who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that 
has the 2nd highest dynamic range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if 
they can't actually hear the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* 
during actual operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, 
Wes made a comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have 
laughed at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking 
about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic 
range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this 
ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has said 
that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this post from 
2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:> 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html>>>
 Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone> else 
complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There> are a 
million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the least.>> Above 
all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4> 
__> Elecraft 
mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> This 
list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to 
julia@juliatuttle.net__Elecraft
 mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list 
hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to 
k9yeq@live.com__Elecraft
 mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list 
hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to k...@gjschwartz.com 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://w

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Julia Tuttle]

It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my (noisy,
urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the
couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet,
rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS  wrote:

> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've
> worked?73,Gary K9GS
>  Original message From: Bill Johnson 
> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona ,
> Julia Tuttle  Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here,
> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great day!BillFrom:
> elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on
> behalf of Julia Tuttle Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021
> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
> elecraft@mailman.qth.net>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second
> "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest performing
> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different aspect
> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool,
> and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood
> list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for
> digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest..but I'll be darned if it isn't
> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is a work
> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more approachable/friendly
> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) is
> tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get what
> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the
> same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <
> alor...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I had
> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next morning, as
> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say that
> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of
> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some
> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And yet,
> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like Dayton
> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you answer
> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">>
> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we
> constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which>
> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal>
> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A>
> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always be guys
> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest dynamic
> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't actually hear
> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual
> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a
> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have laughed
> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking
> about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic
> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this
> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has
> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this
> post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html>>>
> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone>
> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There>
> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the
> least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4>
> __> Elecraft
> mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:
> Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
> Message delivered to
> julia@juliatuttle.net__Elecraft
> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis
> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to
> k9yeq@live.com__Elecraft
> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:e

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Bill Johnson]

I would add, the radio operator with a license is supposed to know the 
requirements and operate accordingly.  This includes staying with the passband 
of the FCC regulations.  Just because a radio is FCC accepted, doesn't mean the 
operator doesn’t have responsibility to stay within the regulations.  Thus if I 
note you are splattering because of too much mic gain, or whatever, doesn't 
excuse the person from adjusting the signal or correcting the situation, 
regardless of the manufacturer.  It is the HAM's station creating the issue 
that is legally needing to correct it.  Don't be offended, fix it.  I have had 
issues with my own Elecraft radio with a circuit failure... what did I do? I 
fixed it.  

Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 7:51 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

I must respectfully disagree sir...

The ordinary ham should be able to tell when his/her rig is out of spec. 
  The ordinary ham should be able to operate his/her rig correctly. 
That is just no longer the case.  There are a lot of folks out there that don't 
even know how a repeater works at the most basic of levels. 
They are operating HF rigs with no understanding of how they work, and no 
understanding of what limits they need to maintain.

They create a mess on the air, and should be told about it.  Nicely, but told 
non the less.  It is far better to have a fellow ham tell you you have an 
issue, than have the FCC tell you...

Speaking of the FCC, I don't remember the FCC turning over responsibility for 
signal quality to the manufactures of radios, absolving the operator of all 
responsibility...  It is the operators job to make sure he/she is operating 
their radio correctly, and within tolerance, period, end of discussion, the 
operator is responsible.

If he/she can not tell there is a problem, than that ham should not be allowed 
to transmit...

There are dirty transmitters all over, and they meet FCC specs...  How can that 
be you might ask yourself?

In a lot of cases, the operator is not knowledgeable in how to drive the 
transmitter properly, or that low voltages feeding the transmitter can cause 
issues, or that triggering ALC in FT8 causes issues, there are any number of 
settings the Amateur can screw up, and the rig meets FCC specs...

So no, it is not "out of line" to let someone know their transmitter is 
spraying crap.

On 6/9/21 5:02 PM, Richards wrote:
> Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is simply 
> out of line.
> 
> The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his rig in 
> good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering standards. 
> He uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing problems. 
> But then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor 
> operator as a bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the 
> operator is somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with 
> crowded conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever 
> whined about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed 
> experts living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible epidemic.
> Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current 
> topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the time.   
> I suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to talk about.
> 
> Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of 
> personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE 
> OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a 
> hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right.
> Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> d...@nk7z.net
Dave
https://www.nk7z.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message 
delivered to k9...@live.com 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Bill Johnson]

The only flaw, I see is if someone doesn't really understand the real life 
application or meaning of the numbers.   To me, quality, usability,  
simplicity,  update ability,  cost-effective use are more important.   Not the 
numbers.   Rob owns his preferences,  is not influenced by manufacturers and to 
me does a fantastic job of reviewing (I use different sort order for my picks 
at times) and because of Wayne, Eric and their phenomenal team... yes, you can 
say I drink Elecraft.
Bill
K9YEQ
Have a great day!
Bill


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Al Lorona 
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 8:57:08 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] Gurus

When this subject appeared last week I had composed a reply but then slept on 
it and canceled it the next morning, as I probably do 80% of the time.

In this my second attempt, let me say that I've always been amazed at the power 
wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of hams hang on his latest tests. If he 
deems a new radio exceptional in some way, that can mean many millions of 
dollars for a manufacturer.

And yet, if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places like 
Dayton expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would you 
answer the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any good?"

You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.

But we constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which 
horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal 
experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A must 
be better because the gurus say so."

Yet, there will always be guys who'll be tortured owning a transceiver that has 
the 2nd highest dynamic range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never mind if they 
can't actually hear the differences.

It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual operating that's most 
important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a comment about his tuning 
knob, and although some of you might have laughed at that... it's darned 
important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic range: almost 
any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this ranking more and more 
meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has said that 90 dB or above is 
plenty enough. To understand why, see this post from 2016 by one of the old 
guys on this reflector: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html

Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone else 
complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There are a 
million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the least.

Above all, have fun.

Al W6LX/4
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to k9...@live.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Gary K9GS]

Checked my log...we have not worked:)73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: Julia Tuttle  
Date: 6/10/21  12:00 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: Gary K9GS  Cc: 
Elecraft Reflector  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus 
It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my (noisy, 
urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the couple 
of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet, rural, big 
enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary 
K9GS  wrote:I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call? 
 I wonder if we've worked?73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: Bill Johnson  Date: 
6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona , Julia 
Tuttle  Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here, 
Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great day!BillFrom: 
elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on behalf 
of Julia Tuttle Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 9:36:00 
PMTo: Al Lorona Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second "above 
all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest performing rig you can, 
cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different aspect of a radio, or 
even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool, and I'm happy it 
makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood list, it doesn't have a 
panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for digital modes is a bit of a rat's 
nest..but I'll be darned if it isn't just fun as shit to use. The UI is 
wellthought out, the VFO knob is a work of art, (surprisingly) the compact 
sizemakes it more approachable/friendly for it, and the community here aroundit 
(as heated as it can get) is tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet 
or lab testing Get what makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next 
ham can do the same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona 
 wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I had 
composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next morning, as I 
probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say that I've 
always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of hams 
hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some way, 
that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And yet, if there 
were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like Dayton expounding 
about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you answer the questions, 
"Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">> You'd probably get on 
the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we constantly have gurus telling 
us that Brand A is the 'best' which> horrifies us if up until now we liked 
Brand B better. Against our personal> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I 
used to like Brand B, but Brand A> must be better because the gurus say so.">> 
Yet, there will always be guys who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that 
has the 2nd highest dynamic range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if 
they can't actually hear the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* 
during actual operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, 
Wes made a comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have 
laughed at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking 
about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic 
range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this 
ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has said 
that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this post from 
2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:> 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html>>>
 Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone> else 
complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There> are a 
million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the least.>> Above 
all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4> 
__> Elecraft 
mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> This 
list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to 
julia@juliatuttle.net__Elecraft
 mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list 
hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to 
k9yeq@live.com__Elecraft
 mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Buddy Brannan]

Man, what a great cw call, totally wasted on FT8 :-) 


Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: bu...@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962



> On Jun 10, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my (noisy,
> urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the
> couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet,
> rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS  wrote:
> 
>> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've
>> worked?73,Gary K9GS
>>  Original message From: Bill Johnson 
>> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona ,
>> Julia Tuttle  Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
>> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here,
>> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great day!BillFrom:
>> elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on
>> behalf of Julia Tuttle Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021
>> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
>> elecraft@mailman.qth.net>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second
>> "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest performing
>> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different aspect
>> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool,
>> and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood
>> list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for
>> digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest..but I'll be darned if it isn't
>> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is a work
>> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more approachable/friendly
>> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) is
>> tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get what
>> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the
>> same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <
>> alor...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I had
>> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next morning, as
>> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say that
>> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of
>> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some
>> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And yet,
>> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like Dayton
>> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you answer
>> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">>
>> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we
>> constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which>
>> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal>
>> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A>
>> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always be guys
>> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest dynamic
>> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't actually hear
>> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual
>> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a
>> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have laughed
>> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking
>> about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic
>> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this
>> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has
>> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this
>> post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html>>>
>> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone>
>> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There>
>> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the
>> least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4>
>> __> Elecraft
>> mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:
>> Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>> Message delivered to
>> julia@juliatuttle.net__Elecraft
>> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis
>> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this 

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Julia Tuttle]

Oh, I know, it was a deliberate choice -- my Elmer (from, jeez, 20 years
ago) K1AJ said he picked his for the sound, so I did too.

I do occasionally get out on CW with it though!

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 00:35 Buddy Brannan  wrote:

> Man, what a great cw call, totally wasted on FT8 :-)
>
>
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Email: bu...@brannan.name
> Mobile: (814) 431-0962
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Julia Tuttle 
> wrote:
> >
> > It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my
> (noisy,
> > urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the
> > couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet,
> > rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS  wrote:
> >
> >> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've
> >> worked?73,Gary K9GS
> >>  Original message From: Bill Johnson 
> >> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona <
> alor...@sbcglobal.net>,
> >> Julia Tuttle  Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
> >> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here,
> >> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great
> day!BillFrom:
> >> elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on
> >> behalf of Julia Tuttle Sent: Tuesday, June 8,
> 2021
> >> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
> >> elecraft@mailman.qth.net>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second
> >> "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest
> performing
> >> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different
> aspect
> >> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool,
> >> and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood
> >> list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for
> >> digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest..but I'll be darned if it
> isn't
> >> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is a
> work
> >> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more
> approachable/friendly
> >> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) is
> >> tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get
> what
> >> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the
> >> same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <
> >> alor...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I
> had
> >> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next
> morning, as
> >> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say
> that
> >> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood.
> Thousands of
> >> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in
> some
> >> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And
> yet,
> >> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like
> Dayton
> >> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you
> answer
> >> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">>
> >> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we
> >> constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which>
> >> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our
> personal>
> >> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but
> Brand A>
> >> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always be
> guys
> >> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest
> dynamic
> >> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't actually
> hear
> >> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual
> >> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes
> made a
> >> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have
> laughed
> >> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking
> >> about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order
> dynamic
> >> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this
> >> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has
> >> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this
> >> post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
> >>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html
> >>>
> >> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear
> someone>
> >> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic.
> There>
> >> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the
> >> least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4>
> >> __> Elecraft
> >> mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:
> >> Elecraft@mail

Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

[Bill Johnson]

One more off topic:  I was told my call, which I totally disliked back in 
1960... buddies pointed out, how great it was on cw.  How short sighted I was.

Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Julia Tuttle
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:41 PM
To: Buddy Brannan 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

Oh, I know, it was a deliberate choice -- my Elmer (from, jeez, 20 years
ago) K1AJ said he picked his for the sound, so I did too.

I do occasionally get out on CW with it though!

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 00:35 Buddy Brannan  wrote:

> Man, what a great cw call, totally wasted on FT8 :-)
>
>
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Email: bu...@brannan.name
> Mobile: (814) 431-0962
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Julia Tuttle 
> wrote:
> >
> > It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my
> (noisy,
> > urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of 
> > the couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's 
> > (quiet, rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS  wrote:
> >
> >> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've 
> >> worked?73,Gary K9GS
> >>  Original message From: Bill Johnson 
> >> 
> >> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona <
> alor...@sbcglobal.net>,
> >> Julia Tuttle  Cc: Elecraft Reflector < 
> >> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here, 
> >> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great
> day!BillFrom:
> >> elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  
> >> on behalf of Julia Tuttle Sent: Tuesday, 
> >> June 8,
> 2021
> >> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona Cc: Elecraft 
> >> Reflector <
> >> elecraft@mailman.qth.net>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna 
> >> second "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the 
> >> highest
> performing
> >> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different
> aspect
> >> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also 
> >> cool, and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of 
> >> the Sherwood list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and 
> >> connecting it up for digital modes is a bit of a rat's 
> >> nest..but I'll be darned if it
> isn't
> >> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is 
> >> a
> work
> >> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more
> approachable/friendly
> >> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) 
> >> is tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab 
> >> testing Get
> what
> >> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do 
> >> the same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona < 
> >> alor...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week 
> >> I
> had
> >> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next
> morning, as
> >> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me 
> >> say
> that
> >> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood.
> Thousands of
> >> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional 
> >> in
> some
> >> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> 
> >> And
> yet,
> >> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like
> Dayton
> >> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you
> answer
> >> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> 
> >> good?">> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that 
> >> way.>> But we constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 
> >> 'best' which> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. 
> >> Against our
> personal>
> >> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but
> Brand A>
> >> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always 
> >> be
> guys
> >> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest
> dynamic
> >> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't 
> >> actually
> hear
> >> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual 
> >> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, 
> >> Wes
> made a
> >> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have
> laughed
> >> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm 
> >> talking about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 
> >> 3rd order
> dynamic
> >> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make 
> >> this
> >> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood 
> >> ranking> himself has
> >> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see 
> >> this post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
> >>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long
> -td7623639.html
> >>>