Re: [Elecraft] HELP! XFINITY SHUT OFF INTERNET DUE TO HAM ANTENNAS

[w2xj]

A T-mobile hotspot is probably easiest. With 5G, I have measured speeds up to 
700 megabits and typically around 300 megabits with the occasional dip to 100 
megabits. $50 per month. 


> On October 21, 2021 12:27 PM Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
>  
> My girlfriend has a setup like this in rural NH. Cricket Wireless will sell
> you a whopping 100 GB data on AT's network for just $55 a month. We get
> about 15 Mbps down and 5 Mbps up with 50ms latency (to speedtest.net's
> servers), although of course that will vary based on AT's local network.
> 
> She's got a fancy industrial/weatherproof modem; I can find out the model
> if you're interested.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Julie
> 
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 12:09 Alan Bloom  wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 10/21/2021 9:43 AM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
> > > Dump Comcast at the soonest opportunity.
> >
> > There may be more options than you realize that avoid having to deal
> > with the cable company and have no potential for interference to/from
> > the amateur station.
> >
> > I recently bought a house here (near St. George Utah).  There is no
> > cable in my neighborhood so at first it appeared that the only option
> > was DSL (via the telephone line) at 3 Mbps for $50/month.
> >
> > But a quick Internet search found three local companies that offer
> > "Fixed Wireless" Internet service.  This is where they beam the Internet
> > to you via microwave from stations on nearby mountains. Costs range from
> > $40 to $200/month for 25 to 300 Mbps.
> >
> > I had a similar setup back at my house in California that had no DSL or
> > cable available in the neighborhood.  Once I got the antenna properly
> > located it worked reliably and of course there was no QRM to/from the
> > HF/2 meter ham gear.
> >
> > Alan N1AL
> >
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] HELP! XFINITY SHUT OFF INTERNET DUE TO HAM ANTENNAS

[w2xj]

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Re: [Elecraft] TVI and More

[w2xj]

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Re: [Elecraft] HOA Crap

[w2xj]

Can you provide a link to it?



> On June 29, 2021 12:27 PM Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>  
> On 6/29/2021 7:50 AM, Bob McGraw wrote:
> > I totally agree.
> 
> Did you do as N7WS suggested and look at this guy's website> I did.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Nano VNA

[w2xj]

The problem with that is it requires a computer and is apparently limited to 
Windows software. Nano VNA is self contained. 





> On June 25, 2021 5:00 AM Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>  
> On 6/25/2021 1:18 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
> > Only marginally Elecraft related, but I want to buy a Nano VNA.
> 
> In a different price range, but I've been VERY happy with the VNWA 
> designed by DG8SAQ, built and sold as a finished product by these hams 
> in the UK. One of the HUGE pluses is SAQ's software, which is able to 
> compute and plot complex impedance from S11 and S21 measurements. The 
> company also sells very good calibration kits at very reasonable prices, 
> and calibration is key to meaningful measurements. This unit is a 
> serious lab quality instrument, not a toy.
> 
> https://www.sdr-kits.net/introducing-DG8SAQ-VNWA3
> 
> I paid about $700 for the unit with the cal kit, shipped, about 7 years 
> ago. The Brexit stupidity has made it about $100 cheaper.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 observation

[w2xj]

Wayne

I seriously doubt this is an RF issue. TV is all digital and has no discrete 
audio carrier. TV RF interference would sound like white noise. This sounds 
more like an audio ground loop of some sort.  




> On June 18, 2021 10:33 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
>  
> John,
> 
> If the K4 is *off*, then there's no active circuitry involved. However, the 
> headphone plug-insertion detect circuit may involve an IC downstream that 
> could include a schottky diode junction -- a potential way a very strong 
> signal could be rectified right at the radio end of the cable. We're looking 
> at that. 
> 
> If the cable is not very well shielded, and the TV station is *very strong*, 
> I can imagine modern physics just barely covering this situation. It would 
> help if the headphone cable was about the length of an end-fed dipole at the 
> station's frequency.
> 
> As for the K4 chassis itself: It's very well sealed (far better than the 
> K3/K3S).
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jun 18, 2021, at 3:36 PM, John Harper  wrote:
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1XRaNpgQDI
> > 
> > John AE5X
> > https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> > 
> >> Noticed that when the antenna are disconnected, and the K4 turned off, I 
> >> hear a local TV station in the headphones… Never happened on the K3.
> > __
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Other Radio lists thoughts.

[w2xj]

Sounds unwieldily to me.  



> On June 8, 2021 8:14 PM Thomas Warren  wrote:
> 
>  
> Speaking of the Sherwood RX list, someone mentioned producing additional 
> lists…here is some food for discussion….. possibly not on this list.
> 
> List 1) Radio Receiver (RX) …..already exists.
> 
> List 2) Radio Transmitter (TX)…..already suggested.
> 
> List 3) Radio Ergonomics (RE) - a list of what is desirable or which knobs/ 
> buttons used the most or are most 
>   important. Listed by different classes such as Contest radio, CW, SSB, 
> Weak signal….etc.
> 
> List 4) Radio Usability (RU) - how many mouse-clicks or button-pushes is 
> takes to enable a wanted function, Macros OFF……etc. 
> 
> Probably, combine #3,4. 
> 
> Just throwing this out for rumination. :) 
> 
> 
> Tom, W4TMW
> 
> 
>  
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Re: [Elecraft] A different whine

[w2xj]

So who cares what you think?

> On April 1, 2021 10:01 PM Don Putnick  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yep, with no apologies.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 6:55 PM w2xj  wrote:
> > 
> >  Looks like yet another self appointed moderator. 
> >  
> > 
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] A different whine

[w2xj]

Looks like yet another self appointed moderator. 



> On April 1, 2021 4:44 PM Don Putnick  wrote:
> 
>  
> PLEEZE trim your email. Quoting 5 deep is a bit much.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft contact

[W2xj]

Context?

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 16, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Bob G3PJT  wrote:
> 
> 
> David
> 
> Try Lisa  Jones, her email is sa...@elecraft.com and the other one is 
> pa...@elecraft.com
> 
> And the mod page which I found useful is
> 
> https://la3za.blogspot.com/search/label/K2
> 
> 73 Bob
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Re: [Elecraft] Why predistortion ?

[W2xj]

wayne,

After you have the K4 fully put to bed, for your next project you might want to 
consider an amp that is directly driven by an I/Q stream.  The amplifier will 
be much more efficient (less power consumption) and you start out with less IMD 
before any pre-distortion.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 13, 2020, at 6:05 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Hi JR,
> 
> Virtually all class-AB-biased amplifier stages have worst-case 3rd-order IMD 
> in the range of -30 dBc (ARRL method) on some HF bands. This reflects a 
> limitation in the state of the art. Even with adequate feedback and bias, an 
> amplifier operated in the vicinity of its 1 dB compression point (where it is 
> most efficient) will exhibit such characteristics.
> 
> To improve on this you either need to operate class A, which is highly 
> inefficient, or use predistortion. 
> 
> A small number of commercial transceivers are now providing predistortion, in 
> some cases as an optional/experimental setting (that not everyone uses, or at 
> least not all the time). There are constraints on predistortion power range 
> imposed by the headroom limit of the amplifier stage itself. Go over that 
> point and distortion will be worse than without predistortion. 
> 
> Predistortion, correctly applied, can reduce interference between adjacent 
> stations on a crowded band. This is a factor at least some fraction of the 
> time during typical amateur radio use. Beyond that, the motivation for a 
> “pure“ signal exemplifies the amateur spirit of cooperation, and is an 
> example of keeping the hobby on the forefront of electrical design.
> 
> Wayne,
> N6KR
> 
> 
> elecraft.com
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2020, at 2:34 PM, JR  wrote:
>> 
>> Why are so many ops obsessed with predistortion?
>> 
>> The Elecraft K-Line already produces some of the cleanest, purest transmit 
>> signals around.   Do we need predistortion ?  If so, why, and how much 
>> better is it than what we already have?  Should I wait to buy a new rig 
>> until that is available?
>> 
>> Thanks and Happy Trails to all.   K8JHR
>> _
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Re: [Elecraft] With the K4 coming, is it time to replace this email list with a forum?

[W2xj]

then build a filter. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 6, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Barry  wrote:
> 
> David Gilbert-2 wrote
>> And as others have pointed out, there is already a K4 forum on .io . 
>> why doesn't that work for you??
>> 
>> Dave   AB7E
> 
> Because I'm not looking for a K4 forum.  I'm looking to AVOID all the K4
> traffic that will be comping.
> 
> Barry W2UP
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Inverted L for 160 meters

[W2xj]

Nice website.

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 29, 2020, at 6:08 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> I did a search on your callsign.  I couldn't find a single publicly 
> attributed contribution you've ever made to the hobby, and yet you have the 
> gall to post a snide and ignorant comment like that.
> 
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
>> On 8/29/2020 12:41 PM, W2xj wrote:
>> page is too busy and is not iPad friendly. I haven’t used a PC for 15 years. 
>> You need to work more on webpage layout.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Inverted L for 160 meters

[W2xj]

Here’s a readable website

https://k2av.com/

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 29, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 8/29/2020 12:41 PM, W2xj wrote:
>> page is too busy and is not iPad friendly. I haven’t used a PC for 15 years. 
> 
> That's YOUR problem, not mine.
> 
>> You need to work more on webpage layout.
> 
> Let's see if I understand this. I spend thousands of hours doing extensive 
> research and generating free content and I need to do more to work with YOUR 
> computer?
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Inverted L for 160 meters

[W2xj]

page is too busy and is not iPad friendly. I haven’t used a PC for 15 years. 
You need to work more on webpage layout. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 29, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 8/28/2020 6:25 PM, W2xj wrote:
>> Your website could use larger and easier to read fonts.
> 
> Use < +> to zoom window or go to settings in your browser to zoom in or 
> out. Has worked fine on my browsers for 25 years. Yours is the first 
> complaint.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Inverted L for 160 meters

[W2xj]

Your website could use larger and easier to read fonts. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 28, 2020, at 8:14 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 8/28/2020 4:58 PM, James Bennett via Elecraft wrote:
>> If you have limited property and still want to operate 160, take a look at 
>> the FCP.
> 
> Yes, two of my friends have had success with it, and it's one of many options 
> in the 160M slide show that I posted a day or two ago in this thread.  
> k9yc.com/publish.htm  Scroll down to find it.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

[W2xj]

I would avoid that in ham or broadcast transmitters due to the potential skill 
sets (or lack thereof)of end users. Hydrogen is too explosive in the wrong 
hands. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 25, 2020, at 6:41 AM, Rich NE1EE <73.de.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If you're up to the challenge, hydrogen is a great for cooling. Very nice 
> thermal conductivity and thermal capacity. I've worked on systems that used 
> it for cooling.
> 
> ~R~
> 72/73 de Rich NE1EE
> On the banks of the Piscataqua
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

[W2xj]

glycol and anti freeze. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 4:49 PM, N2TK via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> I can't remember what we used to use for closed loop cooling. I don't think 
> we used distilled water because it's resistance would increase over time from 
> picking up ions from the metal. In our case it was cooling loops in a copper 
> 37" electrode. I thought it was some kind of antifreeze or maybe an oil? And 
> also isn't distilled water quite reactive?
> To many bourbons ago 
> N2TK, Tony
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of Paul Christensen
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 3:54 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling
> 
>> "Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices."
> 
> Pure water is an insulator.  Leakage becomes a problem when water becomes 
> contaminated with conductive particles.  This rarely occurs in closed loop 
> systems that use distilled water when non-contaminating hoses, fittings, and 
> heat exchangers are used.  My 2KW LDMOS amp uses water cooling in such a
> closed system. 
> 
> My main amplifier at home is an Alpha PA-70V.  The amp uses an openly-cooled 
> vapor-phase system.  A pint of distilled water separates 4KV of plate voltage 
> and chassis ground.  Water is in direct contact with the plate. In time, air 
> particles do contaminate the water (usually in the form of algae) and the 
> system must be purged and refilled at annual intervals.  If leakage exceeds a 
> predetermined amount, the amp faults and shuts down.  
> 
> Paul, W9AC  
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

[W2xj]

We have 40 KW liquid cooled solid state transmitters and they don’t leak. It 
depends on if it is properly designed. There are TV transmitters over 100 KW 
and liquid cooling is common in many models and they don’t leak as well. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Dave  wrote:
> 
> Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices.
> 
> 
> Seriously, I would like to see the KPA1500 available with a larger finned 
> heat sink and in a larger enclosure using 120 mm fans. That would move a lot 
> of air across  a larger heat dissipation area keeping noise and temps down. 
> 
> I love the 1500 and under normal use I can tolerate the noise. Contesting 
> gets a little loud. That is what the Bose QC30 noise cancelling headphones 
> are for. 
> 
> Dave wo2x
> 
> Sent from my waxed string and tin cans. 
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:00 PM, W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> Personally I would love to see a liquid cooled  high powered linear 
>> amplifier. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Jul 23, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Richard Zalewski  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Firm believer in cooler is better.  Also believe one must be careful not to
>>> disrupt designed air flow.  I purchased this :
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059BCVXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
>>> and put it on the desk to the side of the amp.  Seems to aid in moving the
>>> warm air from under amp and drops the temp 2-3 degrees C.
>>> 
>>> Richard
>>> *W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
>>> J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer*
>>> __
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

[W2xj]

Personally I would love to see a liquid cooled  high powered linear amplifier. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Richard Zalewski  wrote:
> 
> Firm believer in cooler is better.  Also believe one must be careful not to
> disrupt designed air flow.  I purchased this :
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059BCVXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
> and put it on the desk to the side of the amp.  Seems to aid in moving the
> warm air from under amp and drops the temp 2-3 degrees C.
> 
> Richard
> *W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
> J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV
> 
> 
> *Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer*
> __
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> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners

[W2xj]

That only applies to class A stations with protected skywave. Otherwise, 
something near 225 degrees is best. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 18, 2020, at 11:33, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> And the Texas Bug Catcher, Webster BandSpanner, SteppIR's, et al.  All 
> represent changes to the antenna itself, which would also include changing 
> the height [e.g. cranking the tower up and down] and possibly cutting down 
> nearby trees or metal buildings [:=).  Any change to the antenna itself or 
> its near-field environment will affect the feed point complex impedance.  
> This would include adding traps, inductors, and capacitors to the antenna.
> 
> When you're done flutzing with the antenna itself, you are stuck with 
> whatever complex impedance you find at the feed point.  AM broadcast 
> verticals are generally engineered for coverage near the edges of the market 
> area, meeting non-interference FS requirements, and minimizing 
> self-cancellation between the ground and sky wave.  Something in the vicinity 
> of 195 degrees is generally optimal.  They are not usually resonant and there 
> will be fixed matching network(s) at the base(s) ... AM broadcast stations 
> aren't known to QSY much.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the TurboTuner however many mechanical antenna 
> adjusters operated by driving the phase angle between voltage and current to 
> zero, that is effectively bringing the antenna into resonance so the feedline 
> sees a resistive load. It's up to you to design the antenna so that resistive 
> load matches the characteristic impedance of the feedline OR put a matching 
> network between the feedline and the antenna feedpoint OR tolerate the SWR on 
> the line and put the matching network in the shack.  Pick one.
> 
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 7/17/2020 9:44 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
>> Save one; the screwdriver antenna on my truck is tuned (coil adjusted) by 
>> the TurboTuner attached to my radio until a match is found.
>> 
>> And an argument could be made that a SteppIR controller performs a similar 
>> function.
>> 
>> The rest are matching circuits to compensate for the disparity of input to 
>> output.  
>> 
>> 73,
>> Rick NK7I
>> 
>> Email spiel Czech corruptions happen
>> 
 On Jul 17, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> No antenna has, at any time, anywhere in any of our lifetimes, been 
>>> "tuned" by an "antenna tuner."  So called antenna tuners are 2-port 
>>> impedance matching networks ... all of them ... and their

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Re: [Elecraft] Matching resonant antennas

[W2xj]

What is changing is the radiation pattern. As the frequency increases the 
pattern becomes more sidelobes. Some of those sidelobes are bigger than the 
main lobe and they radiate  ‘somewhere’. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2020, at 21:19, Lyn Norstad  wrote:
> 
> Barry -
> 
> +1
> 
> I use nothing but 600 ohm OWL (True Ladder Line) and a short piece of coax 
> connects to a 1:1 / 4:1 hybrid balun to allow matching the impedance 
> perfectly with my KAT500.
> 
> The antenna is a 360' center fed EDZ (design frequency of 3.5 MHz).  The 
> KAT500 matches it on all bands 160 - 6m (on 15m, it bypasses).
> 
> The measured performance indicates  excellent radiation on all bands.
> 
> 73
> Lyn, W0LEN
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Barry LaZar
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 7:44 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Matching resonant antennas
> 
> Wes,
> 
> You're correct that open wire/ladder line transmission lines are 
> not a panacea. But, in the average ham stations, open wire does overcome 
> high losses with high SWR, or not so high SWR. What is needed is a look 
> at the ARRL Antenna book for transmission line loss/100 ft. as a 
> function of SWR. You see that on 10 meters running 10:1 SWR the total 
> loss is around 1 db. And, as you go to the lower bands, losses become 
> less. Typical 400 Ohm ladder line has a loss of 0.2 db at 10 MHz and 0.6 
> db at 100 MHz. Using these data and a little interpolation, I would use 
> 0.4 db on 10 meters and a 10:1 SWR for this to be 0.8 db of additional 
> loss for a total of about 1.2 db. Yes, I do use a balun and recommend 
> them so add another 0.5 db. Add another 0.5 db for a good tuner and we 
> end up with a total of 2.2 db. on 10 meters and less on 20 and it 
> decomposes to an academic exercise on 40 and down.
> 
> Coax on 10 starts out with a higher loss/100 feet. I will use what 
> I use here in K3NDM, Times LMR400. That represents 0.4 at 10 MHz. and 
> 1.4 db at 100 MHz. That will yield about 1.2 db/100 ft on 10 meters. Add 
> 0.25 db for a 2:1 SWR and 0.5 for tuner loss and you end up with about 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[W2xj]

If that were the case, the radio should never be used outdoors. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:41 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> UV could be rough on the plastic.
> 
> I strongly agree with the suggestion to use nitrile gloves. That also puts 
> the responsibility onto the guest operator instead of onto the person who 
> tried to sanitize the radio.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Jun 16, 2020, at 4:27 PM, W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> handheld UV sanitizer.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:03 PM, AB1DD  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to clean 
>>> the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the 
>>> button labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.
>>> 
>>> What's good?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Carl
>>> AB1DD
>>> 
>>> Resistance is futile.
>>> (don't know about reactance, though)
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[W2xj]

handheld UV sanitizer.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:03 PM, AB1DD  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to clean 
> the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the button 
> labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.
> 
> What's good?
> 
> -- 
> 
> 73,
> Carl
> AB1DD
> 
> Resistance is futile.
> (don't know about reactance, though)
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Data protection and recovery techniques

[W2xj]

I backup into the cloud. When I get a new Mac, it restores automatically. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 13, 2020, at 10:46 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> Being a Mac guy, I use "Time Machine". I do test it every once in a while 
> when I recover a file, but having been in the computer industry for my 
> career, I am generally careful enough that I don't have to recover files. 
> (Knock on wood.)
> 
> I have the largest disk I could find at Costco as a backup disk sitting on my 
> desk.
> 
> The real test comes when I buy an new computer and restore the entire backup 
> to the new machine. That has worked through several new computers. The one 
> time it didn't work, the old backup was so many no-longer-supported levels 
> back, that the new machine didn't recognize it. However, with Time Machine, 
> if you open the backup folder on the backup disk, you can dig down to a 
> complete file system image that can just be copied. I like backup systems 
> that are simple and don't try to do irreversible magic.
> 
> The other dimension of backup is several offsite disks. One is at a house 
> nearby, and another is on the other coast. Whenever I travel to those 
> locations, I make a backup. If everthing here goes up in smoke, I do have 
> some recourse.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz| Can't fix stupid, but   | Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900  | duct tape can muffle the| 150 Rivermead Road #235
> www.pwpconsult.com | sound... - Bill Liebman | Peterborough, NY 03458
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3(s) main oscillator calibration

[W2xj]

I have higher standards and always have.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 10, 2020, at 2:45 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> And perfect will never occur.  So one best think of adequate.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
>> On 6/10/2020 1:42 PM, W2xj wrote:
>> adequate is not perfect. YMMV
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Jun 10, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In referencing TF.NIST.GOV on page 251, I find it stated;
>>> 
>>> "When high accuracy is not required, probably and fastest way of comparing 
>>> the frequency of an oscillator to a broadcast standard is the familiar 
>>> heterodyne or zero beat method."
>>> 
>>> And then on page 253, I find it stated;
>>> 
>>> " Usually, however, it is difficult to adjust an oscillator to exactly zero 
>>> beat with an HF carrier beyond the ground wave range of the transmitter.  
>>> The problem arises from rapid fluctuations in the received signal strength 
>>> and from propagation flutter in the received frequency."
>>> 
>>> References are: THE USES AND LIMITATION OF HF STANDARD BROADCAST FOR TIME 
>>> AND FREQUENCY COMPARISON.  John T. Stanley, NIST.
>>> 
>>> As I indicated earlier, a frequency accuracy of +/- 1 Hz for ham radio 
>>> purposes is adequate.  Likewise for time accuracy +/- 0.1 second is 
>>> adequate.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 6/10/2020 11:52 AM, w4sc wrote:
>>>> How much doppler shift should be expected?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>> 
>>>> From: W2xj
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 5:31 PM
>>>> To: w4sc
>>>> Cc: wes_n...@triconet.org; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3(s) main oscillator calibration
>>>> 
>>>> the problem with WWV is doppler shift.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 6, 2020, at 5:27 PM, w4sc  wrote:
>>>>> I like the zero beat WWV method.  Used it in the Navy to calibrate / PM 
>>>>> the 10MHz frequency standards aboard ship. Requires the least amount of 
>>>>> test equipment!  If you can receive WWV on 20MHz to calibrate the K3/K3S, 
>>>>> all the better,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Using a frequency counter I would think  0.1Hz resolution and attending 
>>>>> accuracy would be in order, plus an accurate time base in the counter, 
>>>>> GPS locked,,, or oven-ized, on all the time reference ,,, ect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ben W4SC
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>> 
>>>>> __
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> Message delivered to w...@w2xj.net
>>>>> 
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>> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3(s) main oscillator calibration

[W2xj]

adequate is not perfect. YMMV

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 10, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> In referencing TF.NIST.GOV on page 251, I find it stated;
> 
> "When high accuracy is not required, probably and fastest way of comparing 
> the frequency of an oscillator to a broadcast standard is the familiar 
> heterodyne or zero beat method. "
> 
> And then on page 253, I find it stated;
> 
> " Usually, however, it is difficult to adjust an oscillator to exactly zero 
> beat with an HF carrier beyond the ground wave range of the transmitter.  The 
> problem arises from rapid fluctuations in the received signal strength and 
> from propagation flutter in the received frequency."
> 
> References are: THE USES AND LIMITATION OF HF STANDARD BROADCAST FOR TIME AND 
> FREQUENCY COMPARISON.  John T. Stanley, NIST.
> 
> As I indicated earlier, a frequency accuracy of +/- 1 Hz for ham radio 
> purposes is adequate.  Likewise for time accuracy +/- 0.1 second is adequate.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
>> On 6/10/2020 11:52 AM, w4sc wrote:
>> How much doppler shift should be expected?
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> 
>> From: W2xj
>> Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 5:31 PM
>> To: w4sc
>> Cc: wes_n...@triconet.org; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3(s) main oscillator calibration
>> 
>> the problem with WWV is doppler shift.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Jun 6, 2020, at 5:27 PM, w4sc  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I like the zero beat WWV method.  Used it in the Navy to calibrate / PM 
>>> the 10MHz frequency standards aboard ship. Requires the least amount of 
>>> test equipment!  If you can receive WWV on 20MHz to calibrate the K3/K3S, 
>>> all the better,
>>> 
>>> Using a frequency counter I would think  0.1Hz resolution and attending 
>>> accuracy would be in order, plus an accurate time base in the counter, GPS 
>>> locked,,, or oven-ized, on all the time reference ,,, ect.
>>> 
>>> Ben W4SC
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>> 
>>> __
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 0n motorboat

[W2xj]

again, check with the wife.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 11:39 PM, Frank C Richards  wrote:
> 
> I used the wrong terminology when I was speaking about antenna system
> grounding on a boat. What I actually meant was a counterpoise system.
> I agree that a vertical dipole works well but would be difficult to install
> permanently
> on a small boat. A vertical is most often used with a tuner. There are
> standard mounts
> and they are pretty easy to install and are sturdy and well suited for
> marine use.
> I also agree that all structures should be bonded to the counterpoise
> system.
> Some of the boat builders(Hatteras ,Bertram .etc) would put copper screen
> into
> the fiberglass layups of the flying bridge decks and roofs with a stud
> connected
> to it so that it could be tied into the system.
> On commercial trawlers the antenna would be mounted on the mast about 30 or
> 35 ft above the water.It was fed with a wire about 25 or 30 ft long so it
> was
> actually a 55 or 60 ft end-fed.
> With the outriggers lowered and acting as radials, the trawl doors and
> cables in the
> water and everything else bonded together, it is a pretty good counterpoise
> system.
> 
> 73, Frank KB4VU
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 on motorboat.

[W2xj]

check with his wife. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 6:44 PM, Barry  wrote:
> 
> This will look like the 23' HF whip used by boaters and the wire can be 
> barely seen. I can't see how this would look much worse than what boaters 
> already do for HF except this will be ground independent.
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "W2xj" 
> To: "Barry" 
> Cc: "Robert Sands" ; "Frank C Richards" 
> ; "Elecraft Discussion List" 
> Sent: 6/9/2020 6:32:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 on motorboat.
> 
>> aesthetics?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Jun 9, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Barry  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Full size verticals are hard to do on small power boats. And elevated 
>>> grounds are also hard. Water grounds are usually the most practical, but 
>>> fresh water is not great. I counsel inverted Vs as they are ground 
>>> independent. On power boats that too is a tough trick, but it can be done, 
>>> depending on size of the boat. A 40 meter dipole can be made by bending the 
>>> ends and can be fed with coax through a 4:1 current balun if the run to the 
>>> radio is not too great. It will require a fiberglass mast bracketed to the 
>>> fly bridge. There are several suppliers of good, strong push up masts 
>>> available; I wouldn't go more than about 25 feet which should put the feed 
>>> about 31 or so feet over the water,m close to a 1/4 wave on 40. This 
>>> arrangement will allow all band operation above 40 with a K3 as the tuner 
>>> is just plain magic.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Barry
>>> K3NDM
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Robert Sands" 
>>> To: "Frank C Richards" 
>>> Cc: "Elecraft Discussion List" 
>>> Sent: 6/9/2020 3:22:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 on motorboat.
>>> 
>>>> Verticals require more attention to ground but the goal should be to
>>>> increase the antenna current, thus increasing radiated signal. ground into
>>>> water seems like a waste but has DC grounding value. I use hung vertical
>>>> dipoles (20 and 15) with no need for ground and they work amazingly well. I
>>>> have tried letting wire or zinc ribbon  strips drop into saltwater to
>>>> ground verticals and there is no value I can detect over something simpler,
>>>> like tying to existing structures or running a above water wire
>>>> counterpoise. Vertical dipoles require no Rf ground and propagate at low
>>>> angle and high efficiency. Far effects over water are what counts, more
>>>> than grounding, except in verticals to get higher antenna current.
>>>> K7VO
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:38 AM Frank C Richards  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  Having been in the marine electronics business I was able to successfully
>>>>> install many HF radios on boats from large steel commercial fishing boats
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 on motorboat.

[W2xj]

aesthetics? 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Barry  wrote:
> 
> Full size verticals are hard to do on small power boats. And elevated 
> grounds are also hard. Water grounds are usually the most practical, but 
> fresh water is not great. I counsel inverted Vs as they are ground 
> independent. On power boats that too is a tough trick, but it can be done, 
> depending on size of the boat. A 40 meter dipole can be made by bending the 
> ends and can be fed with coax through a 4:1 current balun if the run to the 
> radio is not too great. It will require a fiberglass mast bracketed to the 
> fly bridge. There are several suppliers of good, strong push up masts 
> available; I wouldn't go more than about 25 feet which should put the feed 
> about 31 or so feet over the water,m close to a 1/4 wave on 40. This 
> arrangement will allow all band operation above 40 with a K3 as the tuner is 
> just plain magic.
> 
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Robert Sands" 
> To: "Frank C Richards" 
> Cc: "Elecraft Discussion List" 
> Sent: 6/9/2020 3:22:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 on motorboat.
> 
>> Verticals require more attention to ground but the goal should be to
>> increase the antenna current, thus increasing radiated signal. ground into
>> water seems like a waste but has DC grounding value. I use hung vertical
>> dipoles (20 and 15) with no need for ground and they work amazingly well. I
>> have tried letting wire or zinc ribbon  strips drop into saltwater to
>> ground verticals and there is no value I can detect over something simpler,
>> like tying to existing structures or running a above water wire
>> counterpoise. Vertical dipoles require no Rf ground and propagate at low
>> angle and high efficiency. Far effects over water are what counts, more
>> than grounding, except in verticals to get higher antenna current.
>> K7VO
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:38 AM Frank C Richards  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Having been in the marine electronics business I was able to successfully
>>> install many HF radios on boats from large steel commercial fishing boats
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible

[W2xj]

marry a ham! :-)

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 3:54 PM, Peter Kaletsch  wrote:
> 
> I agree, but I think that's a common issue for married hams! Happy wife, 
> happy live :-)
> 
> 73, Peter
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: W2xj [mailto:w...@w2xj.net]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juni 2020 18:34
> An: Peter Kaletsch 
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Betreff: Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible
> 
> i think your engineering challenge is primarily balancing esthetics against 
> performance.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 9, 2020, at 6:52 AM, Peter Kaletsch  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for all answers and information! Some I still have to read more 
>> accurate ana translate some special parts, because, as you can obviously 
>> read from my post, my English is horrible.
>> 
>> I tend - and of course my wife does - to have a fixed installation. So 
>> extendable fiberglass masts or something like this is not the solution we 
>> are searching for.
>> 
>> I will think about all suggestions, try some of them and report later this 
>> year, if there are any reporting worth solutions. We take over the boat 
>> during the next 2 weeks and after that, there is a lot of other marine stuff 
>> to do, before focusing on ham radio on board).
>> 
>> Further answer are highly welcomed
>> 
>> 
>> 73, Peter
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: Kurt Pawlikowski [mailto:ku...@pinrod.com]
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juni 2020 03:16
>> An: Peter Kaletsch ;
>> elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Betreff: Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible
>> 
>> Peter,
>> 
>>In general, any vertical works lots better with more radials. As fresh 
>> water is a fairly poor conductor, the more the merrier!
>> Unfortunately, because most boats are wooden/fiberglass, what you can
>> add helps. I don't know if they have to be 1/4 wavelength (I've read
>> yes and some say at least 0.20 wavelength). For HF, this would be some
>> serious lengths for most boats! I expect you'd have to load them
>> similar to the vertical element, but I haven't read anything regarding
>> loading
>> radials: It's just a guess. I suppose one could attempt to replicate, to 
>> some extent, a solid ground plane with foil or some other conductor (maybe 
>> chicken wire?). It would seem a lot of work (and probably is!).
>> If you're insistent on a vertical, it's a narrow field of variability.
>> Some of the portable antenna's can make loaded dipoles or verticals, which 
>> would operate fairly well without a ground plane. Another option might be a 
>> magnetic loop (which doesn't care much about "ground" per se.
>> It is affected by near-by conductors, tunes very narrowly, and is big 
>> (compared to a mobile vertical). So, whatever you choose, it's all some sort 
>> of compromise.
>> 
>>kurtt WB9FMC
>> 
>>>> On 6/8/2020 3:47 PM, Peter Kaletsch wrote:
>>> Hello fellows;
>>> 
>>> You are my last hope as I cannot imagine that I am the only one in the 
>>> world who wants to try that.
>>> 
>>> For many months I have been trying in vain to get tips on how to operate a 
>>> K3 well on a small 13 meter motor yacht. I am talking about fresh water 
>>> usage (Lake Garda in Italy), not salt water, and of a GFK built boat.
>>> 
>>> A dipole is eliminated, it is not a sailing boat. I thought of using a 
>>> Tarheel Antenna, but the manufacturer advised me against it.
>>> 
>>> So normal, shortened mobile antennas, mounted on the device carrier, where 
>>> also the antenna for marine radio is located, should point the way ...?
>>> 
>>> But how do I get a reasonably effective earth? I read a lot of negative 
>>> things about ground plates - fast growth, the hull has to be pierced.
>>> 
>>> I have already considered laying radials from the antenna base below deck 
>>> in the invisible area, but will this work...?
>>> 
>>> I am very grateful for every tip and every help - also to
>>> pkalet...@kaletsch-gmbh.de
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> 
>>> Peter - DL1MDZ
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Peter Kaletsch GmbH | Fürstenrieder Straße 275 | 81377 München | Tel:
>>> +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 0 | Fax: +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 99 | 
>>> i...@kaletsch-gmbh.de | Handelsregisternummer HRB 108093 | Amtsgericht 
>

Re: [Elecraft] K3 on motorboat.

[W2xj]

i think there is an esthetic problem that is more important.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 3:24 PM, Robert Sands  wrote:
> 
> Verticals require more attention to ground but the goal should be to
> increase the antenna current, thus increasing radiated signal. ground into
> water seems like a waste but has DC grounding value. I use hung vertical
> dipoles (20 and 15) with no need for ground and they work amazingly well. I
> have tried letting wire or zinc ribbon  strips drop into saltwater to
> ground verticals and there is no value I can detect over something simpler,
> like tying to existing structures or running a above water wire
> counterpoise. Vertical dipoles require no Rf ground and propagate at low
> angle and high efficiency. Far effects over water are what counts, more
> than grounding, except in verticals to get higher antenna current.
> K7VO
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:38 AM Frank C Richards  wrote:
>> 
>> Having been in the marine electronics business I was able to successfully
>> install many HF radios on boats from large steel commercial fishing boats
>> to a small 28 ft fiberglass fishing boat and sailboats.
>> Anything metal , engine, fuel tanks,rudder posts,thru hulls, morse control
>> cables,intercoolers outside of the hull,rub rail sections jumpered together
>> to form one continuous loop. Dynaplates help but will not work well as the
>> only source of ground. I once saw a carbon brush riding thru spring tension
>> on a prop shaft, tying the prop to ground.
>> It can be tricky as sometimes you get ground loops and you must be aware
>> of currents that can cause electrolysis.
>> For the antenna we primarily used a 23 ft whip, sometimes on large vessels
>> a longwire.
>> This was before synthesized radios and autouners. My favorite radio was
>> the
>> Drake TRM which had a built in manual tuner and a 50 ohm output if you
>> wanted
>> to use a trapped vertical.
>> On  commercial fishing boats you had to leave the dock so that the
>> outriggers
>> could be lowered and trawl doors put in the water as this changed the
>> tuning
>> quite a bit from being at the dock. Interestingly enough I think the
>> toughest
>> time I had tuning  was on an 85 ft steel shrimp boat even with all that
>> metal.
>> .
>> __
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>> 
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to k7vora...@gmail.com
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible

[W2xj]

i think your engineering challenge is primarily balancing esthetics against 
performance.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 6:52 AM, Peter Kaletsch  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks a lot for all answers and information! Some I still have to read more 
> accurate ana translate some special parts, because, as you can obviously read 
> from my post, my English is horrible.
> 
> I tend - and of course my wife does - to have a fixed installation. So 
> extendable fiberglass masts or something like this is not the solution we are 
> searching for.
> 
> I will think about all suggestions, try some of them and report later this 
> year, if there are any reporting worth solutions. We take over the boat 
> during the next 2 weeks and after that, there is a lot of other marine stuff 
> to do, before focusing on ham radio on board).
> 
> Further answer are highly welcomed
> 
> 
> 73, Peter
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Kurt Pawlikowski [mailto:ku...@pinrod.com]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juni 2020 03:16
> An: Peter Kaletsch ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Betreff: Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible
> 
> Peter,
> 
> In general, any vertical works lots better with more radials. As fresh 
> water is a fairly poor conductor, the more the merrier!
> Unfortunately, because most boats are wooden/fiberglass, what you can add 
> helps. I don't know if they have to be 1/4 wavelength (I've read yes and some 
> say at least 0.20 wavelength). For HF, this would be some serious lengths for 
> most boats! I expect you'd have to load them similar to the vertical element, 
> but I haven't read anything regarding loading
> radials: It's just a guess. I suppose one could attempt to replicate, to some 
> extent, a solid ground plane with foil or some other conductor (maybe chicken 
> wire?). It would seem a lot of work (and probably is!).
> If you're insistent on a vertical, it's a narrow field of variability.
> Some of the portable antenna's can make loaded dipoles or verticals, which 
> would operate fairly well without a ground plane. Another option might be a 
> magnetic loop (which doesn't care much about "ground" per se.
> It is affected by near-by conductors, tunes very narrowly, and is big 
> (compared to a mobile vertical). So, whatever you choose, it's all some sort 
> of compromise.
> 
> kurtt WB9FMC
> 
>> On 6/8/2020 3:47 PM, Peter Kaletsch wrote:
>> Hello fellows;
>> 
>> You are my last hope as I cannot imagine that I am the only one in the world 
>> who wants to try that.
>> 
>> For many months I have been trying in vain to get tips on how to operate a 
>> K3 well on a small 13 meter motor yacht. I am talking about fresh water 
>> usage (Lake Garda in Italy), not salt water, and of a GFK built boat.
>> 
>> A dipole is eliminated, it is not a sailing boat. I thought of using a 
>> Tarheel Antenna, but the manufacturer advised me against it.
>> 
>> So normal, shortened mobile antennas, mounted on the device carrier, where 
>> also the antenna for marine radio is located, should point the way ...?
>> 
>> But how do I get a reasonably effective earth? I read a lot of negative 
>> things about ground plates - fast growth, the hull has to be pierced.
>> 
>> I have already considered laying radials from the antenna base below deck in 
>> the invisible area, but will this work...?
>> 
>> I am very grateful for every tip and every help - also to
>> pkalet...@kaletsch-gmbh.de
>> 
>> Thanks in advance
>> 
>> Peter - DL1MDZ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Peter Kaletsch GmbH | Fürstenrieder Straße 275 | 81377 München | Tel:
>> +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 0 | Fax: +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 99 | 
>> i...@kaletsch-gmbh.de | Handelsregisternummer HRB 108093 | Amtsgericht 
>> Muenchen | Steuer-Nr: 143/170/40017 | Geschäftsführer: Peter Kaletsch | Sitz 
>> der Gesellschaft: München | Hinweis / reference:
>> Die Inhalte dieser Nachricht dürfen nur für die beabsichtigten Zwecke 
>> verwendet werden. The content of this Message may only be used for the 
>> intended purposes.
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> ku...@pinrod.com
> 
> Peter Kaletsch GmbH | Fürstenrieder Straße 275 | 81377 München | Tel: +49 (0) 
> 89 / 89 60 93 - 0 | Fax: +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 99 | i...@kaletsch-gmbh.de | 
> Handelsregisternummer HRB 108093 | Amtsgericht Muenchen | Steuer-Nr: 
> 143/170/40017 | Geschäftsführer: Peter Kaletsch | Sitz der Gesellschaft: 
> München |
> Hinweis / reference:
> Die Inhalte dieser Nachricht dürfen nur für die beabsichtigten Zwecke 
> verwendet werden. The content of this Message may only be used for the 
> intended 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible

[W2xj]

Sorry, I misread the original post and thought it was a KX33 and not a K33.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 8, 2020, at 7:14 PM, Peter Kaletsch  wrote:
> 
> Hi;
> 
> Thank you very much for the feedback and suggestions.
> 
> The suggested setup is surly good for testing, but I would prefer a permanent 
> installation more and I am very sure, my wife also does Or should I say, I am 
> sure, it's a must for here :-). And also the AX-1 limits the output to 25 
> watts...
> 
> Best regards
> 
> 73, Peter
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: W2xj [mailto:w...@w2xj.net]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juni 2020 00:55
> An: Peter Kaletsch 
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Betreff: Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible
> 
> try and AX1 with a tripod mount  mounted to the boat and then one or two 
> radials over the hull and into the water. Another member expressed interest 
> in operating over salt water when additional ground is much less important.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 8, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Peter Kaletsch  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello fellows;
>> 
>> You are my last hope as I cannot imagine that I am the only one in the world 
>> who wants to try that.
>> 
>> For many months I have been trying in vain to get tips on how to operate a 
>> K3 well on a small 13 meter motor yacht. I am talking about fresh water 
>> usage (Lake Garda in Italy), not salt water, and of a GFK built boat.
>> 
>> A dipole is eliminated, it is not a sailing boat. I thought of using a 
>> Tarheel Antenna, but the manufacturer advised me against it.
>> 
>> So normal, shortened mobile antennas, mounted on the device carrier, where 
>> also the antenna for marine radio is located, should point the way ...?
>> 
>> But how do I get a reasonably effective earth? I read a lot of negative 
>> things about ground plates - fast growth, the hull has to be pierced.
>> 
>> I have already considered laying radials from the antenna base below deck in 
>> the invisible area, but will this work...?
>> 
>> I am very grateful for every tip and every help - also to
>> pkalet...@kaletsch-gmbh.de
>> 
>> Thanks in advance
>> 
>> Peter - DL1MDZ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Peter Kaletsch GmbH | Fürstenrieder Straße 275 | 81377 München | Tel:
>> +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 0 | Fax: +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 99 | 
>> i...@kaletsch-gmbh.de | Handelsregisternummer HRB 108093 | Amtsgericht 
>> Muenchen | Steuer-Nr: 143/170/40017 | Geschäftsführer: Peter Kaletsch | Sitz 
>> der Gesellschaft: München | Hinweis / reference:
>> Die Inhalte dieser Nachricht dürfen nur für die beabsichtigten Zwecke 
>> verwendet werden. The content of this Message may only be used for the 
>> intended purposes.
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> w...@w2xj.net
> 
> 
> Peter Kaletsch GmbH | Fürstenrieder Straße 275 | 81377 München | Tel: +49 (0) 
> 89 / 89 60 93 - 0 | Fax: +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 99 | i...@kaletsch-gmbh.de | 
> Handelsregisternummer HRB 108093 | Amtsgericht Muenchen | Steuer-Nr: 
> 143/170/40017 | Geschäftsführer: Peter Kaletsch | Sitz der Gesellschaft: 
> München |
> Hinweis / reference:
> Die Inhalte dieser Nachricht dürfen nur für die beabsichtigten Zwecke 
> verwendet werden. The content of this Message may only be used for the 
> intended purposes.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 working on motorboats - possible

[W2xj]

try and AX1 with a tripod mount  mounted to the boat and then one or two 
radials over the hull and into the water. Another member expressed interest in 
operating over salt water when additional ground is much less important.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 8, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Peter Kaletsch  wrote:
> 
> Hello fellows;
> 
> You are my last hope as I cannot imagine that I am the only one in the world 
> who wants to try that.
> 
> For many months I have been trying in vain to get tips on how to operate a K3 
> well on a small 13 meter motor yacht. I am talking about fresh water usage 
> (Lake Garda in Italy), not salt water, and of a GFK built boat.
> 
> A dipole is eliminated, it is not a sailing boat. I thought of using a 
> Tarheel Antenna, but the manufacturer advised me against it.
> 
> So normal, shortened mobile antennas, mounted on the device carrier, where 
> also the antenna for marine radio is located, should point the way ...?
> 
> But how do I get a reasonably effective earth? I read a lot of negative 
> things about ground plates - fast growth, the hull has to be pierced.
> 
> I have already considered laying radials from the antenna base below deck in 
> the invisible area, but will this work...?
> 
> I am very grateful for every tip and every help - also to 
> pkalet...@kaletsch-gmbh.de
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Peter - DL1MDZ
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Kaletsch GmbH | Fürstenrieder Straße 275 | 81377 München | Tel: +49 (0) 
> 89 / 89 60 93 - 0 | Fax: +49 (0) 89 / 89 60 93 - 99 | i...@kaletsch-gmbh.de | 
> Handelsregisternummer HRB 108093 | Amtsgericht Muenchen | Steuer-Nr: 
> 143/170/40017 | Geschäftsführer: Peter Kaletsch | Sitz der Gesellschaft: 
> München |
> Hinweis / reference:
> Die Inhalte dieser Nachricht dürfen nur für die beabsichtigten Zwecke 
> verwendet werden. The content of this Message may only be used for the 
> intended purposes.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3(s) main oscillator calibration

[W2xj]

the problem with WWV is doppler shift. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 6, 2020, at 5:27 PM, w4sc  wrote:
> 
> I like the zero beat WWV method.  Used it in the Navy to calibrate / PM the 
> 10MHz frequency standards aboard ship. Requires the least amount of test 
> equipment!  If you can receive WWV on 20MHz to calibrate the K3/K3S, all the 
> better,  
> 
> Using a frequency counter I would think  0.1Hz resolution and attending 
> accuracy would be in order, plus an accurate time base in the counter, GPS 
> locked,,, or oven-ized, on all the time reference ,,, ect.
> 
> Ben W4SC
> 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Self-fusing liquid electrical tape

[W2xj]

try a 10 tower array. :-) 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 5, 2020, at 10:33 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> I spent a summer during my college years silver-soldering 120 radials to 
> ground screens for each of the 4-tower array of WSAZ.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
>> On 6/5/2020 2:41 PM, Roger Steyaert wrote:
>> that is why I high temperature silver soldered the wire and ground rods 
>> together. Not normal soft solder but the high strength, high temperature 
>> silver solder used in HVAC systems. This requires a acetylene torch to do 
>> the soldering with. this accomplishes the same thing that a CAD weld 
>> provides but with less cost if you have gas welding equipment available.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Self-fusing liquid electrical tape

[W2xj]

To my mind, false economy. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 5, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> 
> That is why I used the mechanical clamps.  I have 10 ground rods for a 
> perimeter ground wire around the house, 6 on the perimeter ground around the 
> workshop building (where the antenna feedlines first enter) and another 4 in 
> the antenna field.  A total of 20 Cad Welds would have exceeded my budget - 
> the #4 copper wire was expensive enough!
> All the clamps are above ground a bit, so I can check the tightness with a 
> wrench at least once a year.
> In most cases, the perimeter wires are folded back on itself to fit into the 
> clamp, so the wire is continuous rather than having cut ends.
> Yes, even the utility ground rod clamp is exposed.  The building inspector 
> frowned on it until I told him why and he allowed it because I do not (will 
> not) mow grass near any of the ground rods.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 6/5/2020 2:55 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Just look at $11.00 per ground rod connection for Cad-Weld as compared to  
>> $1.98 for a mechanical clamp.   Which do you think a ham will choose ?
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Re: [Elecraft] Line In/Out Isolation Transformer

[W2xj]

No, it doesn’t hurt. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 3, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Bill Gillenwater  wrote:
> 
> I want to run sound card audio to the K3. I see that the K3 has isolation 
> transformers built into the Line In and Line Out jacks. My audio cables have 
> an isolation transformer that I built in for use with other radios and 
> applications.  Does it hurt to have the audio going through two 1:1 isolators 
> or should I just use a plain audio cable?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill K3SV 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] [OT] ARRL reverses course on Field Day rulesgg

[W2xj]

> glad I dropped ARRL membership 15 years ago
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Re: [Elecraft] NEW! DIGITAL DISPLAY UNIT for ELECRAFT W2 WATT METER!

[W2xj]

I’ve done that literally thousands of times. You’ll need terminal servers. 
Lantronix is a popular choice. You’ll also need a fixed IP on at least one end.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 26, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Keith Ennis via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
>  I've been asked about using the display unit for remote. Both the W2 and my 
> display unit use a straightforward rs232 port. I haven't done it yet, but 
> connecting 2 serial devices over the internet shouldn't be that hard.
> 
> Keith, KV5J
> 
> On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 03:22:18 PM CDT, Keith Ennis 
>  wrote:  
> 
> Back in Stock at http://www.kv5j.com
> Thanks,73
> 
> 
> 
> Keith, KV5J 
> 
>On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 05:53:03 PM CDT, Keith Ennis 
>  wrote:  
> 
>  I am starting a list if you are interested in a DDU. Available May 21-23.
> 
> Send requests to ddui...@yahoo.com
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Keith,KV5J
> 
> On Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 01:49:26 PM CDT, Keith Ennis 
>  wrote:  
> 
> With permission from Eric and Wayne:
> 
> 
> This easy to install display unit* takes the guess work out of your LED lights
> Easy to read 2 line display
> No USB or serial cable to computer
> No com port in Windows to manage
> No computer needed
> Plug and Play
> Simply connect the SUPPLIED power splitter and PC data jumper cable
> Retains all functions from the W2 front panel
> All displayed info obtained directly from the W2
> 4" x 4.2" x 2"
> 
> GREAT ADD-ON TO AN ALREADY GREAT WATT METER!
> Note:This is not an Elecraft product!
> *Elecraft W2 watt meter not included
> 
> Information and pricing goto: www.kv5j.com
> 
> I have a limited "In Stock" number of units.  After these sell it will take 
> about 2 weeks for the next batch to be available.
> 
> I only have a few of the first run left. I have started a larger second batch.
> 
> Keith Ennis, KV5J  
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Kit???

[W2xj]

Better to use a choke

Sent from my iPad

> On May 18, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> I believe Elecraft equipment has static drains built in but I always put a 
> resistor in a PL-259 plugged into one arm of a coax tee with the antenna on 
> the other arm, on the connector on the radio.  It doesn't have to be 
> precipitating to create "precipitation static" and it won't take long for 
> those infinitesimal little charges to fill up the input capacitance on the 
> first RF stage.
> 
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 5/18/2020 3:08 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> LOL
>> 
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>> (318) 518-1389
>> 
>>> On 05/18/20 14:57, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
>>> Or you can do what I did with my K3: burn up a static drain resistor on
>>> your antenna entrance panel, decide that the smell is coming from the
>>> K4, take it completely to pieces to try to find the burned
>>> component, and then -- after discovering what actually happened -- put
>>> it all back together again.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Victor, 4X6GP
>>> Rehovot, Israel
>>> Formerly K2VCO
>>> CWops no. 5
>>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4???

[W2xj]

According to the evening newscasts out of LA, SOCAL is opening up this week. 
There are restrictions, but not not much different than many places on the East 
coast. 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 15, 2020, at 7:06 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> One thing Al doesn’t mention is that Sacramento is only calling part of the 
> shots. Here in the Bay area we are under control of the local authorities, 
> who have things locked down much tighter than the rest of the state. The 
> state folks are talking about starting to ease things over the next week. 
> Here it will be at least a month. Take a look at the info at the Santa Clara 
> County website for more info. Then realize that Silicon Valley is mostly 
> inside Santa Clara County, and you will then start to see why getting things 
> built and shipped from here is so difficult.
> 
> We will get out of this, we just need patience. At least we are finally 
> starting to be able to get toilet paper and rice. Flour is very difficult, 
> though. It seems that everyone is baking… Masks? Forget it. We have to make 
> our own.
> 
> 73!
> Jack, W6FB
> 
>> On May 15, 2020, at 3:29 PM, Al Lorona  wrote:
>> 
>> Jim is right. Those of you outside of California would probably have a 
>> difficult time imagining how differently we are experiencing the lockdown-- 
>> which is an aptly descriptive noun-- here in California. The latest 
>> long-term outlook we received from Sacramento earlier this week made most of 
>> us gasp. We're running two or three months behind the majority of the 
>> country. It doesn't help that confusing, conflicting, or downright false 
>> information abounds. Patience.
>> Al  W6LX   
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Windows Needed

[W2xj]

1st- get my name right. 2nd- use a font I can read and 3rd- get your facts 
straight and lighten up. Take a pill.  

Sent from my iPad

> On May 1, 2020, at 8:30 PM, M. George  wrote:
> 
> 
> I sent this direct to you... that is pure BS Ray, be glad I didn't embarrass 
> you on the Elecraft list.  Can you even begin to demonstrate what you are 
> claiming? No... you make a bald ass assertion and nothing more. The hardware 
> is the same at the CPU and peripheral level in almost all cases.  iIt's no 
> more secure than the man in the moon.  And yeah, that is a bald ass assertion 
> too! :)
> 
> Max NG7M
> 
>> On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 6:27 PM W2xj  wrote:
>> Apple controls the hardware AND the software for a good reason. It just 
>> works. I can’t remember the last time anything crashed on my Mac. I am 
>> willing to spend money for top quality and I usually avoid hacks. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> > On May 1, 2020, at 7:51 PM, M. George  wrote:
>> > 
>> > Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
>> > virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
>> > thing at all).  The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
>> > hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
>> > hardware signatures... trickery.  Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
>> > that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying their
>> > hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the Mac
>> > OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS update
>> > comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
>> > (constant cat and mouse game).  I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do
>> > that, but that's just what they do.  So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
>> > your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
>> > adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
>> > dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS at
>> > the time (amen! it saved Apple!).  Jobs brought them back to the modern OS
>> > era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
>> > bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple back
>> > then to keep them alive)
>> > 
>> > So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the Mac
>> > OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you can
>> > still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions of
>> > Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
>> > Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel based
>> > PC hardware.  So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac / Apple
>> > hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
>> > independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's hardware!
>> > 
>> > Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
>> > you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
>> > operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
>> > that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac OS
>> > too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
>> > Free BSD based OS release after release after rele
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> M. George
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Re: [Elecraft] Windows Needed

[W2xj]

Apple controls the hardware AND the software for a good reason. It just works. 
I can’t remember the last time anything crashed on my Mac. I am willing to 
spend money for top quality and I usually avoid hacks. 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 1, 2020, at 7:51 PM, M. George  wrote:
> 
> Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
> virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
> thing at all).  The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
> hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
> hardware signatures... trickery.  Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
> that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying their
> hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the Mac
> OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS update
> comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
> (constant cat and mouse game).  I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do
> that, but that's just what they do.  So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
> your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
> adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
> dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS at
> the time (amen! it saved Apple!).  Jobs brought them back to the modern OS
> era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
> bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple back
> then to keep them alive)
> 
> So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the Mac
> OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you can
> still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions of
> Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
> Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel based
> PC hardware.  So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac / Apple
> hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
> independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's hardware!
> 
> Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
> you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
> operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
> that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac OS
> too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
> Free BSD based OS release after release after rele

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Re: [Elecraft] mailman.qth

[W2xj]

I agree. Groups.io has a lot of idiots who don’t seemed to have mastered real 
email. The same was true for Yahoo groups. 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 1, 2020, at 7:41 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> 
> I must agree 100%, having the list move to a .io interface would destroy the 
> navigability.
> 
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> 
>> On 5/1/20 2:31 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> Because reflectors work.  They're a universal push technology.
>> When I do want to "navigate" this list, everything is right here on my 
>> machine where I can search it quickly.
>> If you're trying to use a list archive, then yeah, it can be clunky, but 
>> that's not a reflector.
>> 73 -- Lynn
>>> On 5/1/20 2:19 PM, Neil Foster wrote:
>>> I still wonder why Elecraft a forward looking company uses a "reflector"
>>> like mailman rather than the .io type so many others now use. Sure makes it
>>> easier to navigate using .io
>>> Neil   N4FN
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Re: [Elecraft] Windows Needed

[W2xj]

agreed I haven’t touched a Win PC in over 10 years but I have Win XP, Win 7, 
Win 10 and Linux running as virtual machines on my Macbook Pro. There is 
virtually nothing I can’t run. I keep as much as possible native OSX, though.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 1, 2020, at 7:11 PM, Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I have been running Windows on my Mac since Parallels was introduced with 
> only one problem, ICOMS firmware update utility. Windows on a Mac is not an 
> emulator 
> So, can you run two different versions of Windows and Mac OS on your PC and 
> switch between them with a click of a mouse? I had to do that when ULS 
> required an earlier version of Windows. I use to chuckle at my colleagues who 
> needed separate computers and to deal with updates drivers viruses etc. I 
> only need one Mac in my ham station. I guess I could give up my Mac and buy 
> several PCs 
> Ray
> W8LYJ
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 1, 2020, at 13:35, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> 
>> With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price 
>> range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a 
>> dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer.  Oh yes, you need a monitor too, 
>> but those also are not expensive.
>> 
>> That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing tasks.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> 
 On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:
>>> Tommy,
>>>You question seems straight forward, but it is a little complicated. If 
>>> all you need is just a logging program, almost anything will do. However, 
>>> if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good software is Windows 
>>> based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are pretty good, but 
>>> occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay with a PC for overall 
>>> simplicity.
>>>I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI, 
>>> N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out 
>>> some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go 
>>> PC..
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Re: [Elecraft] Mail for Windows 10

[W2xj]

the vast majority of list servers strip HTML.

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Chuck Chandler  wrote:
> 
> After reviewing several of my recent emails that came to the list as blank
> emails, and seeing a few of those every few days on this list from others,
> I am beginning to think the listserv here is configured to reject HTML
> Mail.  The shack computer has Mail for Windows 10 on it, and that was used
> for a few emails recently.  I also used my phone, and another
> computer where I was using the G-Mail web interface.  But, the shack PC and
> it's Mail for Windows 10 seems to be the one that delivered empty or blank
> emails to the list.
> 
> Can an administrator of the list (or someone knowledgeable about the
> reflector) advise if this list rejects HTML Mail?  That appears to be the
> only format used by Mail for Windows 10.
> 
> Alternatively, has anyone had success using Mail for Windows 10 for posting
> to this list?  M4W10 settings don't show any send format controls, and a
> web search showed nothing but a series of complaints about the lack of
> plain text sending from 3 years back.
> 
> -- 
> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
> 
> chandler...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] KATxxx Remote Tuner

[W2xj]

Please don’t talk down to me or many other of us. I’ve been in this hobby for 
over 60 years and I know how things worked both then and now. 

To answer your question about broadcast, many systems consist of series fed 
towers. In a practical world a tower presenting zero reactance is about 35 ohms 
and 50 ohm tower has reactance. Other heights have (generally) higher 
resistance and reactance. In all these cases an ATU at the tower. base is used 
to match both the coax and TX output. The other approach is a grounded tower 
with a unipole (or shunt feed) arrangement. Properly done the feed is tapped 
for zero reactance and the resistance is somewhere 250 ohms. Others tap for 50 
ohms but the reactance is high. These arrangements also require an ATU at the 
tower base. 

On HF, the antenna is multiband and uses open wire feeder. Usually this goes 
straight to the TX which usually has a 300 ohm balanced output. These 
transmitters are still tube devices and their output networks accommodate the 
changing load. 

Sent from my iPad

>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:39 PM, ab2tc  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I know nothing about BC transmitters and antennas but in our world of
> amateur radio solid state transmitters it is imperative that the
> transmission line presents a load close to 50 ohms resistive to the
> transmitter. The transmitter doesn't care how this is accomplished as long
> as it sees a good match to 50 ohms. The simplest, of course, it to have a
> resonant antenna (close to 50 ohms resistive - resonance is no guarantee of
> a 50 ohm load) and a good low loss 50 ohm coax transmission line. If the
> antenna is far from 50 ohm resistive, a tuner (more correctly called a
> matching network) is required somewhere between the antenna and the
> transmitter. If the actual loss of the transmission line under the
> mismatched condition is not too high, it's perfectly OK to have the tuner
> close to the transmitter. If these conditions are not satisfied, the tuner
> is best located close to the antenna feed point with the extra cost and
> effort that involves.
> 
> AB2TC - Knut
> 
> 
> 
> W2xj wrote
>> You can get an AT-615B from Array Solutions now and do this. I put 10 in a
>> club station for our various wire arrays. They do everything you need.
>> 
>> BTW I disagree about this 50 Ohm antenna thing. In my world of commercial
>> high powered broadcasting 30 MHz and under, there are almost never
>> resonant, matched 50 ohm arrays.  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 8:41 AM, Richard Thorne 
> 
>> rthorne@
> 
>>  wrote:
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] KATxxx Remote Tuner

[W2xj]

you get what you pay for. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 19, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:
> 
> At a “mere” $3K each, the AT-615B might be a great product, but is hardly 
> what I would call a universally accessible solution … 
> 
> Grant NQ5T
> 
>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 5:13 PM, W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> You can get an AT-615B from Array Solutions now and do this. I put 10 in a 
>> club station for our various wire arrays. They do everything you need.
>> 
>> BTW I disagree about this 50 Ohm antenna thing. In my world of commercial 
>> high powered broadcasting 30 MHz and under, there are almost never resonant, 
>> matched 50 ohm arrays.  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 8:41 AM, Richard Thorne  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Eric/Wayne,
>>> 
>>> Has there been any work done for a potential dedicated remote antenna tuner?
>>> 
>>> A remote tuner that could handle 500 or 1500 watts to match up with amps 
>>> power wise (Or just a barefoot K3/K4). Maybe a black box between the LAN on 
>>> the K4 or ACC on the K3 so control signals could be sent to the tuner via 
>>> the coax.
>>> 
>>> I’m a firm believer in 50 ohm matched antennas, but if a tuner is required 
>>> it needs to be at the feed point.
>>> 
>>> Rich - N5ZC
>>> Sent from my iPad
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> 

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Re: [Elecraft] KATxxx Remote Tuner

[W2xj]

You can get an AT-615B from Array Solutions now and do this. I put 10 in a club 
station for our various wire arrays. They do everything you need.

BTW I disagree about this 50 Ohm antenna thing. In my world of commercial high 
powered broadcasting 30 MHz and under, there are almost never resonant, matched 
50 ohm arrays.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 19, 2020, at 8:41 AM, Richard Thorne  wrote:
> 
> 
> Eric/Wayne,
> 
> Has there been any work done for a potential dedicated remote antenna tuner?
> 
> A remote tuner that could handle 500 or 1500 watts to match up with amps 
> power wise (Or just a barefoot K3/K4). Maybe a black box between the LAN on 
> the K4 or ACC on the K3 so control signals could be sent to the tuner via the 
> coax.
> 
> I’m a firm believer in 50 ohm matched antennas, but if a tuner is required it 
> needs to be at the feed point.
> 
> Rich - N5ZC
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 on AM

[W2xj]

There is an old rule that the product of the lowest and highest audio 
frequencies should be between 450,000 and 500,000 (depending on which ‘expert’ 
you ask).  Under that rule, a 3 KHz audio response should have a low end 
response of 150 Hertz for a balanced sound. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 2, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> Why is it we are always prone to boost or add something?   Ever thought of 
> taking away something?   With most EQ systems, attenuation excessive energy 
> is much preferable to boosting anything.
> 
> So if ones audio is bassy or muddy, do we add high end or reduce low end?   
> Hint:  it is not adding high end.   Jim, K9YC, has written much on this 
> topic.  If in doubt, always attenuate first.
> 
> If the glass is full of wine and one desires more wine, what's the choice?  
> Surely one can't add more wine or the glass will overflow.   Then the 
> solution is to take a drink of wine, thus reduce the amount of wine in the 
> glass.  Same for boosting in audio.  The system has a point where it is full 
> and will overflow.   It won't get better, but it will get worse.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
>> On 3/2/2020 2:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> When a user cranks up the low frequency audio EQ on those
>> rigs and then uses high level of audio processing the
>> unfiltered (as in after the DSP/IF filter) PA chain 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 on AM

[W2xj]

i would beg to differ. Amateur radio is a hobby comprised of experimenters, 
home-brewers, DXers, contesters, ragchewers, CW enthusiasts and EM comms to 
name a few. Each group has their own technical needs. 

Regarding AM in transceivers,  it hasn’t been properly implemented for the last 
50 years or more. It is a derivative based on SSB generation which introduces 
many shortcomings with the worst being steep skirted SSB filters.

I’ve worked professionally with AM broadcast transmitters since 1958 and 
watched them evolve over the decades as we perfected the science over that 
time. I’ve worked with LW and MW transmitters to 2 megawatts and shortwave to 
500 kilowatts over the years and consulted on design with almost every major TX 
manufacturer. 

One of the basics is that a transmitter should have an audio bandwidth 2 to 3 
times the actual transmitted audio bandwidth. Bandwidth and peak control is 
then external to the TX. Lack of that capability is part of the reason some 
transceivers sound bad on AM. It is also the source of part of how some hold AM 
in low esteem due IM and other distortions in the linear amplification  chain, 
again, due to a predominately SSB oriented design. There are a number of 
modified BC TXs mostly on 160 and 80 meters with audio bandwidths between 10 
and 20 KHz and they dont have the same issues but they do have proper audio 
processing feeding them.

Back in the 1950s when AM still ruled the ham bands transmitters did not have 
the same issues as they were designed for AM and CW operation and did not have 
audio filtering even though there were more hams back then. Spectral 
distribution of speech have frequencies around 5 KHz20 to 30 db below speech 
fundamentals so the impact is not what many might think when the TX is 
otherwise clean. 

Bottom line, AM in transceivers is a compromise that takes a back seat to SSB. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 2, 2020, at 3:07 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> On 2020-03-02 11:34 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
> >
> > A maximum around 6 KHz would be better,
> 
> Audio response greater than 3 KHz is *never* appropriate for
> amateur radio.  Amateur radio is, after all, a communications
> service not an entertainment medium.
> 
> As a certain FCC official said in a hamfest forum a few  years
> ago, "if you want more than 3 KHz, get a *BROADCAST* license."
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 2020-03-02 11:34 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>> An audio response of 4-5 KHz isn’t unreasonable.  A maximum around 6 KHz 
>> would be better, and since it will be adjustable, the response (with 
>> relatively steep rolloff) can be tailored to be compatible with band 
>> conditions and occupancy as necessary.
>> I know this is a sensitive, if not plain explosive, topic in some circles — 
>> but most AM users do manage their bandwidth with common sense, and to be 
>> considerate of the rest of the community.
>> Grant NQ5T
 On Mar 2, 2020, at 10:46 AM, Eric Swartz  wrote:
>>> 
>>> One note - Wayne is saying the K4 -audio- b/w in AM will be somewhere
>>> between 4 and 5 kHz.  The actual DSB AM b/w that results will be between 8
>>> and 10 kHz.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Eric
>>> *elecraft.com *
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 on AM

[W2xj]

Sounds like there might be a sample rate issue. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 2, 2020, at 10:47 AM, Eric Swartz  wrote:
> 
> One note - Wayne is saying the K4 -audio- b/w in AM will be somewhere
> between 4 and 5 kHz.  The actual DSB AM b/w that results will be between 8
> and 10 kHz.
> 
> 73,
> Eric
> *elecraft.com <http://elecraft.com>*
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:31 PM W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> am should go to at least 6 KHz or be totally unrestricted.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2020, at 7:27 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Grant,
>>> 
>>> The K4 will allow independent setting of TX bandwidth for voice and
>> audio data modes up to something in excess of 4 kHz. SSB, ESSB, AM, and
>> audio data will each have their own setting.
>>> 
>>> As with the K3S, it'll be up to the user to judge whether the use of
>> wider bandwidths is acceptable under the given operating conditions. This
>> subject will be discussed in the owner's manual.
>>> 
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Grant Youngman 
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> One key spec we haven’t heard anything about yet is the transmit
>> bandwidth capability of the K4 on AM.  I certainly hope the design options
>> substantially exceed the rather poor and restricted transmit bandwidth of
>> the K3, and that there aren’t any unnecessary artificial “political”
>> restrictions.  It would seem that the K4, like the Flex radios for example,
>> should be capable of providing outstanding, clean, AM transmit performance
>> with adjustable transmit audio bandwidth to suit conditions, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Grant NQ5T
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 on AM

[W2xj]

am should go to at least 6 KHz or be totally unrestricted. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 28, 2020, at 7:27 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Hi Grant,
> 
> The K4 will allow independent setting of TX bandwidth for voice and audio 
> data modes up to something in excess of 4 kHz. SSB, ESSB, AM, and audio data 
> will each have their own setting.
> 
> As with the K3S, it'll be up to the user to judge whether the use of wider 
> bandwidths is acceptable under the given operating conditions. This subject 
> will be discussed in the owner's manual.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
>> On Feb 28, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:
>> 
>> One key spec we haven’t heard anything about yet is the transmit bandwidth 
>> capability of the K4 on AM.  I certainly hope the design options 
>> substantially exceed the rather poor and restricted transmit bandwidth of 
>> the K3, and that there aren’t any unnecessary artificial “political” 
>> restrictions.  It would seem that the K4, like the Flex radios for example, 
>> should be capable of providing outstanding, clean, AM transmit performance 
>> with adjustable transmit audio bandwidth to suit conditions, etc.
>> 
>> Grant NQ5T
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] 4k monitors for the shack, late 2019

[W2xj]

samsung has a good 32 inch 4K monitor with PIP but I don’t know about the RFI 
aspect. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:49 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I  wrote:
> 
> It would be nice if you want to stream video while in the shack; I'm 
> considering one also (but HDTV is much cheaper).  But one feature I would 
> need is decent PIP (picture in picture) to watch two things at once 
> (computer/radio and video source).
> 
> Two major things to consider are look angle and proximity.  If you have to 
> look up more than a few degrees, your neck will whine, straight ahead is 
> ideal.  If it's too large and close, it will be more difficult to take it all 
> in or you move your head...  consider your ergonomics carefully, body parts 
> resist movement, more each and every year.  It WILL matter, in time (or now).
> 
> 73,
> Rick NK7i
> 
> 
>> On 11/7/2019 2:38 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>> For ham use in the shack it would be pointless (unless you have money 
>> burning holes in your pocket).  If you do photography/video editing or 
>> graphics as a pro — that’s another thing entirely, and where the market for 
>> this display lives :-)
>> 
>> Grant NQ5T
>> 
>> 
>> 
 On Nov 7, 2019, at 5:09 PM, Bert  wrote:
>>> 
>>> There are always people happy to part with their money! ;-))
>>> 
>>> Bert  VE3NR
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/7/2019 4:59 PM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
 Only Apple could come up with a desktop display that cost more than the K4.
 
 https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/ 
 
 
 Paul
 W6PNG
 
> On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Tox  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm going to continue to eagerly await a K4 for A While. In the
> meantime, I've been reconfiguring a room to become my shack, and am
> slowly terraforming it.
> 
> I'd like to pick up a couple of HDMI displays to hang on the wall
> above/behind the rig and the computer I interface to it. Viewing angle
> will be shaded, pretty much on-axis due to location, and it will be
> right next to the entry of my feedline. Expected usage would be
> waterfall/UI and pskreporter type apps.
> 
> What can people suggest for quasi-affordable *RF-quiet* 4k displays in
> the 27-40" range? (I'm not averse to buying something like one of the
> midtier Samsungs, but do not have enough left in the wallet to
> consider things like OLED).
> 
> Bonus points for quiet 4k HDMI switche

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued

[W2xj]

i’ve been a user of 48 volt gear for decades in my day job but it is not what 
the average consumer can easily access. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:
> 
> On 11/4/2019 1:24 PM, Rick Bates (WA6NHC) wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps since that is the standard voltage for cars, trucks, RVs and other 
>> vehicles. 
> 
> Commercial communication base-station equipment has been standardized at
> -48 volts(*) for quite a while and actually needs to use a voltage
> converter for the odd-ball +12 V or 120V AC equipment that has to be run.
> 
> (*) -48 volts has been the telephone industry standard since Ma Bell was
> a  teen-ager!
> 
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> 
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued

[W2xj]

the next step would be to get rid of linear amplification. It’s an over 90 year 
old technique that was  originally all but necessary to amplify SSB. New 
methods employing saturated switching amplification would be much more 
efficient (90% or more) while having much lower IMD (-80 db or more) and 
produce a lot less heat all while maintaining 12 volt operation and eliminating 
the TX D/A converter.  Probably some form of RFPWM but there are other options. 

The wireless data people are all over these technologies as power efficiency in 
that area is an extreme requirement but because of the frequencies involved 
this can be a tradeoff against suppressing switching byproducts and require 
complicated bandpass filters. For HF Ham radio applications only a fairly 
simple low pass filter would be necessary.   

A thought for a K4S or K5?

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 6:21 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> We've chosen to have the K4 continue to be a field-capable radio, inheriting 
> the characteristics that have always made the K3/K3S (and the K2 before it) 
> the preferred rig for FD, DXpeditions, and multi-transmitter stations. Thanks 
> to a lightweight but rigid internal aluminum frame, the K4 weighs only 
> slightly more than the K3/K3S, while integrating in a large LCD in a way that 
> increases width by less than 3 inches. (Unlike on many rigs, our front panel 
> includes separate optical encoders for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT.)
> 
> Current drain of the K4 is half that of most competing high-performance 
> desktop radios, so it can be used with emergency power. At home, use 13.8 to 
> 14.2 V for lowest IMD. In the field, the K3 (and now, the K4) automatically 
> scales maximum power output based on supply voltage, and can run down to as 
> low as 11 V.
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 3:07 PM, Buck  wrote:
>> 
>> Perhaps the K4 should have been a 40V radio and the K3S remain as the 12V 
>> "portable" or "field" version.
>> 
>> k4ia, Buck
>> K3# 101
>> Honor Roll  8B DXCC
>> EasyWayHamBooks.com
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued

[W2xj]

One could always have a modular approach which is how other industries approach 
this. Broadband combiners are not that complicated. BTW, predistortion   is 
common practice is a number of industries.

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 5:03 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-11-04 4:44 PM, Scott Manthe wrote:
> > Elecraft's design philosophy dictates that their radio be capable of
> > portable/field operation, so that's how they design their radios.
> > They're lightweight, efficient, and operate off 12 volts.
> 
> If that's the design philosophy, limit the power output to 60 W PEP.
> 
> Elecraft already have *two* other 12V capable radios - the KX2 and KX3 -
> of one doesn't count the K2.  *WHY* create another dirty 12V radio
> ("active predistortion" is not the solution) when one can have a clean
> 60W radio at 12V or a clean 200W radio at 40V?
> 
> Build a DC-DC supply for the 40V PA stage if one wants to run it from
> an automobile electrical system (or install a separate 48V alternator,
> regulator and battery specifically for the PA stage).
> 
> Increasing transmit IMD by a factor of 40 just to operate the radio
> at 100 W PEP on a 12 battery is unconscionable given today's state
> of the art.  It was different when 48V transistors/FETs were not
> available but that ship sailed almost 20 years ago.
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 2019-11-04 4:44 PM, Scott Manthe wrote:
>> Elecraft's design philosophy dictates that their radio be capable of 
>> portable/field operation, so that's how they design their radios. They're 
>> lightweight, efficient, and operate off 12 volts. Lots of other 
>> manufacturers love giant, heavy rigs. Elecraft doesn't.
>> 73,
>> Scott N9AA
>>> On 11/4/19 3:52 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree completely with all of that, but with the discontinuance of the K3s 
>>> it seems that Elecraft doesn't really consider the K4 to be strictly a base 
>>> station rig.  Their continued insistence upon everything being 12 volt 
>>> capable is a bit of a puzzlement for me.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Dave   AB7E
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] (OT) Ca Fires

[W2xj]

Except in LA and Ventura there is not any forest, just brush and homes. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 3, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Steve Boles  wrote:
> 
> Our son, who lives in Spokane Washington, is a wild land forest fire
> fighter. He's on stand-by but has not yet been deployed to California this
> time around. He has all sorts of stories he can tell about the lack of
> forest management and the consequences of...
> Steve
> ARS: WB4SED
> 
>> On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 8:14 PM Wes  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm shocked to hear that PG would actually think to pay dividends to
>> investors
>> who put their money at risk.  The government of CA should put a stop to
>> this
>> capitalist idea. and turn the management over to the MVD or the bullet
>> train people.
>> 
>> Wes  N7WS
>> 
>>> On 11/3/2019 12:04 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 11/2/2019 7:05 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
 The power situation (especially in PG territory) is a different
>> story, but
 one that's manageable.
>>> 
>>> Really? You do realize that PG's distribution system has been badly
>>> neglected for decades, and has long been an accident ready to happen.
>> And most
>>> of it is bare copper, making it more likely to start a fire. All because
>>> management CHOSE not to maintain it, instead paying themselves big
>> salaries
>>> and bonuses, paying dividends to investors, and buying back stock. The
>> result
>>> is that correcting the problem requires a MASSIVE investment and a
>> massive
>>> amount of work that will takes decades to complete, and years to even
>> begin!
>>> 
>>> As to Elecraft - many of their employees live in areas that WERE
>> affected by
>>> the power shutoffs. Some are my neighbors. Our generators have gotten a
>> lot of
>>> running time in the past week or so.
>>> 
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] (OT) Ca Fires

[W2xj]

i think a bit of an over reaction. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 2, 2019, at 9:37 PM, Doug Renwick  wrote:
> 
> The big question is 'how much longer can Elecraft survive in California and
> have to move elsewhere".
> Doug
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] (OT) Ca Fires
> 
> No impact that I know of.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
>>> On Nov 2, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Jim H via Elecraft 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>  Hi,
>> 
>> Just wondering how the CA fires are affecting Elecraft?
>> Jim h.k7...@aol.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Yahoo Groups is going Offline

[W2xj]

this is very true but those who lack basic computer skills were wanting to move 
this group from a very adequate mailman server to some crippled web based 
group. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 16, 2019, at 9:04 PM, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> 
> * On 2019 16 Oct 18:20 -0500, Andy Durbin wrote:
>> I'm surprised Elecraft does not revert this list to a dial-up bulletin
>> board.  That should satisfy those who are convinced the old way is the
>> only way.
> 
> This list is not hosted via Yahoo!
> 
> This block that is appended to every message clearly shows it is hosted
> by QTH.net/QSL.net:
> 
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>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
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> 
> No need to panic here.  Nothing going on with Yahoo! will affect this
> list as near as I can tell.
> 
> 73, Nate, N0NB
> 
> -- 
> 
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
> 
> Web: https://www.n0nb.us
> Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
> GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Yahoo Groups is going Offline

[W2xj]

gee, I can do all that on my own but then I was never on AOL and became 
conditioned to use the web as a crutch. Learn some computer skills!

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 16, 2019, at 7:20 PM, Andy Durbin  wrote:
> 
> "The groups will still exist but some luddite members will have to learn how 
> to use real email"
> 
> Yes, that will be so much more productive than the email lovers learning the 
> advantages of a system that allows file transfers, a searchable file archive, 
> and the ability to follow any topic of interest without the "email overload" 
> that seems to limit communication here.
> 
> I'm surprised Elecraft does not revert this list to a dial-up bulletin board. 
>  That should satisfy those who are convinced the old way is the only way.
> 
> Andy, k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Yahoo Groups is going Offline

[W2xj]

not really. The groups will still exist but some luddite members will have to 
learn how to use real email.

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 16, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Keith N6JPA  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> All those ham radio email lists will be disappearing very soon.
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Question for California Hams

[W2xj]

Yes this came up on another list and there is a YouTube link.

https://youtu.be/lv2sb4LJq2g


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 12, 2019, at 1:59 PM, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote:
> 
> Wondering if this is true:
> 
> https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/california-officials-declare-ham-radio-no-longer-a-benefit-demands-ham-radio-repeater-infrastructure-to-be-removed
> 
> A friend sent me this.
> 
> Len
> 
> 73
> 
> KA7FTP
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[W2xj]

Without context you are not making any sense. Quoted material would be 
considerate. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2019, at 08:45, Bill  wrote:
> 
> Of course you do! I was only reporting what I have found to be effective in 
> my particular circumstance.
> 
> Further, not everyone has the manual dexterity or prowess to build things 
> themselves - hence, they purchase as needed. Hopefully, without recrimination.
> 
> Bill W2BLC on the air for over 60 years!
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Fantastic Service

[W2xj]

Are we getting a little sexist here?

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 10/3/2019 5:25 PM, Ken B via Elecraft wrote:
>> Now to somehow convince the CFO and chief cookie counter
> 
> Get her interested in sewing machines or looms. I NEVER have to ask my XYL 
> about buying ham gear!
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[W2xj]

A small correction. Delano, Dixon and further east Bethany were not VOA sites. 
They were originally private broadcaster’s sites. I can’t remember which was 
what but Bethany and Delano were CBS and NBC. Bethany was Crosley. Eventually 
VOA took these sites over  as commercial broadcasters found little value in 
shortwave. Greenville was the only true VOA site on US soil. 

The engineers who kept these sites going were heros as many of those 
transmitters became antiques and in some cases had to fabricate parts. That is 
the unfortunate legacy of US shortwave broadcast.



b

Sent from my iPad

>> On Sep 13, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> On 9/13/2019 4:18 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
>> To compound the design compromises, the r hombic termination
>> resistor throws away nearly 3 dB of whatever gain it might achieve.
> 
> When our senior EE class toured Crosley's Mason, OH VOA site in 1964, the 
> engineers were quite proud of their modification to the design that fed the 
> termination power back into the feedpoint. All that remains of that 
> spectacular station is the transmitter building. When we toured it, there 
> were >25 rhombics and two Sterba Curtains. 10-15 years ago, my son worked as 
> the manager for a restaurant/bar on the land where the antenna farm used to 
> be.  Several years ago, I drove by the VOA station at Delano, CA, about 45 
> miles S of Visalia. At least some of the antenna farm was still there, but 
> inquiry told me that the transmitters were "somewhere in South America." At 
> the time, I had hopes of arranging a tour for Visalia DX Convention attendees.
> 
> There are still some shore stations along the Pacific coast with rhombics. 
> The KPH TX and RX stations are 30-40 miles apart. There's another RX station 
> along Rte 1 S of Half Moon Bay, with an associated TX station around Palo 
> Alto.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Dummy Load recommendation

[W2xj]

It doesn’t have to be that expensive. I have built several. DIY is as good as 
buying the finished product. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2019, at 11:16 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> Yes a calorimeter is the better way to measure power.   Not inexpensive 
> however. 
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:07 AM, W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> If you really want precision, use a water cooled load. Measure the flow rate 
>> and input and output temperature. You can precisely calculate power. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2019, at 9:38 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Since power meter systems are calibrated at a known impedance {usually 50 
>>> ohms}, and they are voltage sensing devices, any deviation from the 
>>> calibration value will introduce an error in power indication.  It just 
>>> depends on how precise one prefers to be with power measurements.
>>> 
>>> 100 watts into 50 ohms is 70.71 volts
>>> 
>>> 100 watts into 55 ohms is 74.16 volts
>>> 
>>> 100 watts into 45 ohms is 67.08 volts
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 7/23/2019 5:43 AM, CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft wrote:
>>>> I often wonder just how useful a precision dummy load really is in the 
>>>> amateur service.  I picked up home brew dummy load at the club the other 
>>>> day.  It measured 57ohms dc and comprises 4 wire-wound resistors attached 
>>>> in a cluster across the end of the coax.  After lots of disparaging 
>>>> remarks I put it on the VNA and it didn't look at all bad out to 30MHz: 
>>>> nothing over 1.5:1 and no spikes or dips to indicate resonances. I'll have 
>>>> to do it again and make a print-out for posterity.
>>>> I've heard that salt water in a bucket works after a fashion.
>>>> So the question is: how good do you need it to be?
>>>> David G3UNA
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 22 July 2019 at 23:58 "hawley, charles j jr"  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Used Bird Attenuator is a good deal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://nm3e.com/AttenuatorSampler.htm
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then you’ll have a sample to plug into your counter or scope
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chuck Jack Hawley
>>>>> KE9UW
>>>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Dummy Load recommendation

[W2xj]

If you really want precision, use a water cooled load. Measure the flow rate 
and input and output temperature. You can precisely calculate power. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2019, at 9:38 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> Since power meter systems are calibrated at a known impedance {usually 50 
> ohms}, and they are voltage sensing devices, any deviation from the 
> calibration value will introduce an error in power indication.  It just 
> depends on how precise one prefers to be with power measurements.
> 
> 100 watts into 50 ohms is 70.71 volts
> 
> 100 watts into 55 ohms is 74.16 volts
> 
> 100 watts into 45 ohms is 67.08 volts
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
>> On 7/23/2019 5:43 AM, CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft wrote:
>> I often wonder just how useful a precision dummy load really is in the 
>> amateur service.  I picked up home brew dummy load at the club the other 
>> day.  It measured 57ohms dc and comprises 4 wire-wound resistors attached in 
>> a cluster across the end of the coax.  After lots of disparaging remarks I 
>> put it on the VNA and it didn't look at all bad out to 30MHz: nothing over 
>> 1.5:1 and no spikes or dips to indicate resonances. I'll have to do it again 
>> and make a print-out for posterity.
>> I've heard that salt water in a bucket works after a fashion.
>> So the question is: how good do you need it to be?
>> David G3UNA
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 July 2019 at 23:58 "hawley, charles j jr"  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Used Bird Attenuator is a good deal.
>>> 
>>> https://nm3e.com/AttenuatorSampler.htm
>>> 
>>> Then you’ll have a sample to plug into your counter or scope
>>> 
>>> Chuck Jack Hawley
>>> KE9UW
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Help with IF Noise, DSP Noise, NR settings

[W2xj]

That’s the one. The problem is the WECC map does not have many geographic 
references. Just distribution stations and converter stations. The other line 
you referenced is 345 KV according to the WECC map. It Sierra Pacific power. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2019, at 13:58, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> Ummm ... actually no.  The line next to us is 2 3-phase AC circuits, based on 
> the size of the insulators, one is 500 KV and the other is 230 KV.  Both are 
> definitely AC, I've seen the transformers they both come from at the power 
> plant at Patrick NV.  Each conductor consists of two parallel strands and 
> there is a lot of anti-corona hardware on the insulators which may account 
> for why it is relatively quiet.  The K3 NB is essentially ineffective against 
> its noise, which is quite obvious on the P3.
> 
> I believe you are referring to "Path 65," aka the "Pacific DC Intertie."  In 
> the south, it terminates at a large switching/converter station in Sylmar CA 
> north of Los Angeles right next to I-5.  It runs north through the Owens 
> Valley [adjacent to and often crossing US 395] and terminates in a 
> switching/converter station near The Dalles, OR.  It's primary purpose is to 
> carry plentiful [and cheap] electricity from the Columbia River south to 
> Southern CA.  It crosses I-80 near Fernley NV, 20 or so minutes east of us.  
> It is distinctive because it has only two conductors and, except for the 
> dead-ends at direction changes, is generally on very simple pylon towers.  I 
> attached a photo from Wikipedia which may or may not come thru.
> 
> Path 65 is very quiet, essentially no change in noise when driving under it.  
> I believe it normally operates at +/-500 KV, but can also be operated against 
> ground at between 700 KV and 1 MV.  The earth electrode for the Sylmar 
> converter station is submerged in the Pacific Ocean west of the station.  
> It's not quite pure DC, there's a 12-phase 720 cycle ripple on it from the 
> rectifiers.
> 
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 6/15/2019 10:55 PM, W2xj wrote:
>> Looking at the MECC map, I’m pretty sure the 500 KV line is +- 500 KV DC so 
>> that would by itself make it pretty quiet. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Help with IF Noise, DSP Noise, NR settings

[W2xj]

Looking at the MECC map, I’m pretty sure the 500 KV line is +- 500 KV DC so 
that would by itself make it pretty quiet. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 15, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> I have never found a noise blanker to be of particular value, if any at all, 
> on general power line hash [the "grass" along the baseline of a panadapter.  
> At our prior home in Auburn CA, I had a 3-phase ~70 KV transmission line on  
> running across the lower end of the property that connected a series of 
> hydroelectric plants above and below us, and two 3-phase 112 KV transmission 
> lines on towers about 1/4 mile away.  The 70 KV line was essentially quiet.  
> The 112 KV lines was perhaps S3-4 on 80 and had a fairly high frequency sound 
> ... I guess from the 3-separate phases with peaks occuring at 360 Hz.  The K3 
> NB was ineffective against it.  With the level set high enough to affect the 
> noise level in the headphones, SSB was highly distorted and CW was chopped up.
> 
> Here in NV, we are about 1/2 mile from a 500 KV 3-phase transmission line 
> connecting a power plant in Patrick NV to someplace up in OR, probably along 
> the Columbia.  It is fairly quiet, S2-3 on 80, and again seems to be high 
> frequency enough that the K3 NB is ineffective.  I've concluded that, while 
> technically it all is impulsive [arcs on voltage peaks], the peaks must 
> overlap enough and/or are of a high enough frequency that the NB either can't 
> find them or punches too many too big holes in the signal.  It might be more 
> effective on noise from a single phase line, don't know.
> 
> I rarely hear ignition noise from spark plugs anymore, however the landscape 
> maintenance crew showed up earlier this spring to aerate and de-thatch the 
> grass.  Their aerator gizmo had an old 7 HP engine with strong ignition 
> noise.  The NB took all of it out just fine at very low settings.
> 
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 6/14/2019 11:33 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> David et al;
>> 
>> My statement is almost word for word from the Elecraft K3 manual.   And some 
>> from work done by Art Collins and company at Collins Radio.  They prescribed 
>> the function of a Noise Blanker as follows:
>> 
>> "The following operational requirements were kept in mind:
>> 
>> 1. Reduction of ignition noise from vehicles.
>> 2. Reduction of power line corona noise occurring at 120 CPS repetition
>>rates.
>> 3. Reduction of local thunderstorm disturbances.
>> 4. And, in genera

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 incompatible frequency interface

[W2xj]

Bashing???

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 10, 2019, at 12:04 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On 6/9/2019 9:42 AM, W2xj wrote:
>> Friends don’t let friends use Kenwood.
> 
> Let's stop with the bashing. Of the JA radios, I consider it the better one. 
> Further, ARRL Lab tests show their radios to be cleaner on TX, ranking not 
> all that far behind Elecraft radios.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S - Win4K3Suite - SDRPlay

[W2xj]

That’s why I use VM ware on my MAC. I run various OSs going back to DOS and a 
few Linux distros. I can run anything written in the last 40 years. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2019, at 1:28 PM, Gwen Patton  wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> My concern is legacy programs that may misbehave under Win10. I have some
> pretty old programs that weren't written with Win10 in mind because it
> didn't exist yet. I'm certain I'll have to upgrade eventually and bite the
> bullet, but until then it's a balancing act. But to be fair, some of those
> legacy programs aren't as important now as they once were, so I may be
> hanging onto stuff I don't need to be concerned with. I'll have to go
> through the thing and figure out what I need, what I want, and what will
> still work. Eventually. It's not my #1 priority.
> 
> I also may have to update the machine at the same time, and there's no
> sense updating my OS if I'm just going to have to upgrade the hardware. Any
> new machine I get will likely come with Win10 on it already, so I might as
> well do a careful software migration to a new box than update the OS on the
> old box that'll just get set aside. It doesn't owe me anything -- I got
> this machine 7 years ago.
> 
> 73,
> Gwen, NG3P
> 
>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 12:32 PM Mark Musick  wrote:
>> 
>> Gwen,
>> I have the SDRPlay, Win4K3Suite and Windows 10.
>> The issue you had with the PX3 will not occur with the P3. Yes, you have
>> IQ output on the PX3, but the P3 is the IF output.
>> For the P3 just move the switch on the back of the P3 to enable the P3 IF
>> output, connect it to the SDRPlay, connect the SDRPlay via the USB cable to
>> your PC and Win4K3Suite automatically recognizes the SDRPlay and the
>> spectrum display works right away. No hassles. Yes, you can connect the
>> SDRPlay directly to the IF out on the K3, but why would you do that and
>> loose the use of the P3?
>> As to moving to Windows 10, I don't understand all the hullabaloo. You
>> have to move to it sometime. So, why not do it sooner rather than later.
>> Especially, when it is free. It is my understanding, if I'm wrong someone
>> please correct me, but you will now have to pay to upgrade.
>> For me the upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 has been the least painful
>> of all the OS moves. Yes, you have to get use to things being in different
>> places and accessing things differently, but you've got to do that whenever
>> you move to a new OS. Thus my statement do it now rater than later. There
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 incompatible frequency interface

[W2xj]

Friends don’t let friends use Kenwood. ;-(

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Andy Durbin  wrote:
> 
> I have known about this for a long time but, once I decided to design and 
> build my own KAT500/KPA500 controller, I lost interest in the issue.   Here 
> is the situation:
> 
> A KPA500 can be connected to a TS-590 COM port.  If configured correctly the 
> KPA500 will "poll" the TS-590 once per second with IF;FA;FB;.   TS-590 
> responds with the values of IF, FA, and FB and KPA500 firmware is smart 
> enough to derive the TX band regardless of which VFO is being used as the TX 
> VFO.
> 
> The KAT500 with firmware 1.34 or later will receive a Kenwood format FA word 
> and will use it to select, not only the tuning solution, but also the 
> appropriate antenna.  KAT500 only follows VFO A.  It cannot track VFO B and 
> does not know which VFO is being used for TX.
> 
> 
> I was asked to help another op who, like me, uses TS-590, KAT500, and KPA500. 
>  He actually wanted details of my controller but I'm not ready to release 
> anything yet.   He had his KPA500 following TS-590 band but the KAT500 only 
> had RF frequency detection.   He was sometimes faulting the KPA500 after a 
> band change because the KAT500 had not switched to the required antenna.  I 
> told him that it should be possible to make a "Y" cable that kept the 
> TS-590<>KPA500 connection unchanged but which also fed the TS-590 responses 
> to the KAT500.  I sent him a draft cable drawing.
> 
> He reported he had built the cable but the KAT500 did not do any antenna 
> selection when KPA500 and TS-590 changed bands.   After a few emails 
> exchanged I decided I had to build and test the configuration myself.  It 
> worked as I had expected with KPA500 and KAT500 both following TS-590 band 
> selection when VFO A was the TX VFO.   He eventually worked out what he had 
> mis-configured and now has the interface working.
> 
> Now for the point of this post -
> 
> Why does Elecraft provide KPA500 firmware that is smart enough to derive TX 
> frequency regardless of VFO selection but KAT500 will only respond to VFO A 
> frequency?   Would it not be reasonable to update KAT500 firmware, copying 
> KPA500 code if necessary, so it too will derive TX frequency regardless of 
> VFO usage?
> 
> I hope Elecraft will consider this to be a useful enhancement that will make 
> it easier to integrate KPA500 and KAT500 with Kenwood rigs.
> 
> 73,
> Andy, k3wyc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4: superhet vs. direct sampling

[W2xj]

Direct sampling has no image issues.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 5, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Richard Corfield  
> wrote:
> 
> I'd have thought that superhet would always have the advantage of improved
> image rejection due to the IF band filtering. It would also allow ADCs and
> associated processing to run slower or lower down in relation to its
> Nyquist frequency so allowing for more detail in the sampled signal. Also
> can narrow band analogue filtering beat the dynamic range of the ADC? If
> its top 10 bits are taken up handling that huge strong signal in its input
> passband then you've got fewer bits left for your signal of interest. So
> both high bit depth and high sample rate in comparison to signal are harder
> to achieve.
> 
> The opposing view being the cost of achieving a high quality Superhet
> conversion? If direct sampling and high speed signal processing (FPGA?) can
> achieve the results so much more cheaply and simply and reliably? Like the
> Class D amplifier in reverse.
> 
> - Richard (M0RJC)
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 at 03:19, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>> 
>> The superhet module buys a lot of BDR improvement. But also -- a subtlety
>> I've failed to mention so far -- the superhet module is intended to
>> somewhat improve 2 kHz IMDDR3 *and* make this figure more repeatable.
>> 
>> Q: Say what?
>> 
>> A: As Rob Sherwood noted many times before finally immortalizing this
>> point in his must-read footnotes, A-to-D converters sharing the same part
>> number are not all created equal. The long-time previous occupant of his
>> Top Spot benefitted from a never-corroborated monotonicity in its ADC's
>> LSBs. An act of god. The product of a very good day at the silicon foundry
>> when, serendipitously, all the bunny suits were defect-free, and no one was
>> exhaling molecules of grain alcohol or other substances from the night
>> before.
>> 
>> That said, most ops can get by without the extra BDR and IMDDR3, because
>> they're not situated in the RF equivalent of the Gulf Stream. Hence the
>> different K4 models.
>> 
>> 73,
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 and Linux Infrastructure

[W2xj]

At this point I am pretty sure Elecraft is up to their neck getting a clean 
basic radio out on schedule. Additional bells and whistles will probably take a 
while. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Al Lorona  wrote:
> 
> You guys have now reached the scenario I was trying to ask about last week, 
> but obviously didn't make myself understood.
> When I asked if the K4 would be able to 'talk to the outside world', I meant 
> an ability to initiate communications with a web site, a server, or something 
> else.
> Yes, allowing users to get down to the operating system would probably be 
> unmanageable. But what about loading 'apps', in the same way that you install 
> apps on your phone? I could see a logging app, a reverse beacon app, or 
> something else that would add real functionality to the radio. I'm sure 
> that's been talked about... and I wonder what the thinking is along these 
> lines.
> R,
> Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 DSP bit width

[W2xj]

The K4 is a direct sampling radio. It has no IF. It samples directly to IQ 
baseband and performs all filtering and processing in the digital domain. That 
requires a very high speed ADC. In this case it is just above the Nyquist limit 
for 6 meters. Getting a 16 bit converter that fast approaches the limit of 
available technology. These converters are pipeline architecture and have 
better than 90 db dynamic range.  Looking at S units, there is 88 db from S1 to 
40 over S9 before any attenuation or AGC is applied prior to  the ADC. The 
problem comes when there are signals exceeding that dynamic range like working 
someone who might be S1 or S2 while someone else is transmitting nearby as a 
direct conversion radio has no front end selectivity. As Eric already 
explained, this is the reason for the K4HD option. This appears to essentially 
be a K3S superhet single conversion front end that feeds an approximate 8 MHz 
IF into the ADC. It would then provide a very narrow band reception o
 ption for the K4.

Looking at K3s architecture, the ADC is a PCM1804 which is a delta sigma 
converter which is basically a one bit ADC clocked at 768 times the sample rate 
or somewhere between approximately 24 and 36 MHz depending on what sample rate 
Elecraft selected. In the mode used in the K3S it can sample up to 48 KHz 
although there are other modes permitting up to 192 KHz. The one bit sample is 
decimated to 24 bits. This ADC is a fairly typical high end stereo audio 
converter.

The two approaches are very different and each fulfills a different need. 
Fortuneately, the K4 can provide both with the right options installed.


Sent from my iPad

> On May 29, 2019, at 1:08 AM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> A friend and I were discussing the K4HD and he said that it sounds a lot like 
> the K3S. Well, we both agreed that since the K3S has world class receiver 
> specs, that would not be a bad thing.
> 
> I started comparing the information about the K4HD with the K3S manual and 
> found:
> 
> K3S   K4HD   Feature
> 8.215MHz  ~8MHz  First IF
> 15KHz  ? Second IF (if used in the K4)
> 24 16ADC width
> ~30KHz?   122MHz ADC sample rate (WAG for the K3S)
> 5 2+1Crystal filters (one empty slot is from a post on this list.)
> 
> 
> Note: In the K4 FAQ there are forward references to a K4HD section, but I 
> couldn't find it on the web site.
> 
> 
> Analysis and wild speculation
> 
> Both DSPs and ADC technology have had at least 10 years to improve between 
> the K3S and the K4. WHile I don't track ADC tech, DSPs are computers and we 
> all know what has happened in computers. The basic processors are somewhat 
> faster, and there are many more cores on a chip. The K4 certain to have taken 
> advantage of these improvements.
> 
> The K3S uses a 32 bit floating point DSP, and I don't see any reason to 
> change that specification for any of the K4 models. Not changing means that 
> much of the K3 DSP code should easily port to the new DSP.
> 
> I don't understand how the basic K4 can get good dynamic range with a 16 bit 
> DAC. The K3's 24 bit DAC seems a better choice, although getting high speed 
> and wide bit width at the same time is hard and expensive.
> 
> In the wild speculation department, there seem to be several approaches for 
> the K4HD. (1) Run a K3 like superhet with an ~8MHz IF and digitize that into 
> the DSP. (2) Duplicate the K3's 2nd IF and use the 16 bit ADC at 15Khz. (3) 
> Use a wider ADC at either 8MHz or at 15KHz. Note that one of the features of 
> the K4 is ease of upgrade to new ADCs.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz|"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good for
> 408-356-8506   |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
> www.pwpconsult.com |
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Help with K3S upgrades

[W2xj]

Using WWV as a reference for precision frequency calibration is a bad idea. 
Propagation creates doppler effect. WWVB is better but still not perfect. A 
cheap GPS reference is the best (but still not perfect) option. 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 25, 2019, at 2:39 PM, Rick Bates (WA6NHC)  wrote:
> 
> By ear is very close but if you already have WSJT-X, there is a calibrate 
> mode for the last few Hertz. 
> 
> Rick WA6NHC
> 
> Smell Czech correction happen
> 
>> On May 25, 2019, at 11:08 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> 
>> Hank,
>> 
>> You don't need a highly accurate frequency counter.  You can get closer with 
>> the beat note method.
>> 
>> You can use an audio spectrum analyzer (like Spectrogram or SpectrumLab) 
>> running on your computer and the K3S rear headphone jack connected to your 
>> soundcard Line In.
>> 
>> That will give you a visual display.  When you turn on SPOT, if the two 
>> audio frequencies are far enough apart, you will see two both of them.
>> When both frequencies are quite close, they will appear as one signal.
>> When they are VERY close, you will see the "signal" begin to oscillate in 
>> amplitude - when that oscillation slows to zero, that is the beat point you 
>> are seeking.  In practice it is difficult to get it to exactly zero, but get 
>> it as slow as possible - one or two oscillations each minute is practical 
>> using that method.
>> 
>> If you need Spectrogram (Windows application), go to my website 
>> www.w3fpr.com and scroll near the bottom of the opening page to find the 
>> links.  Those are internal links on my website, and the files have been 
>> thoroughly scrubbed for virus - although Norton does not like them because 
>> they do not have a large enough user list for that application.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>>> On 5/25/2019 1:23 PM, h...@optilink.us wrote:
>>> I have just installed the 1 PPM TXCO in my K3S.  I bought the K3S last
>>> October as a kit and have installed many options since then.
>>> One thing I'm concerned with is the reference calibration.  Without a good
>>> frequency counter, I'm using WWV on 15Mhz and using beat cancelation.  My
>>> ears are pretty good, but no match for a good frequency counter.
>>> Any guys in the NW GA area (Tennessee, Alabama, and North Carolina area
>>> really) that would be willing to help me set that reference calibration with
>>> a good counter?  I'd be willing to pay you for your time!
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Re: [Elecraft] Proposal for change pages for manuals

[W2xj]

What you are advocating is a federal government style of documentation. It 
doesn’t come cheap. How much more would you be willing to pay for products to 
support a vastly increased Elecraft documentation team? 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 23, 2019, at 9:23 PM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> I wasn't suggesting that Elecraft "issue a new manual" with every firmware 
> release, just that it institute a "change page" system. Currently the K3 
> documentation is confused at best.  According to the release notes, the 
> latest MCU is 4.77, but my radio was back to the factory early this year, and 
> it now reports an installed MCU version of 5.66.  Oddly, though, the K3 
> Utility says that 4.67 is still the latest available.  There are similar 
> discontinuities in the FPF and DSP firmware. So I have absolutely no idea 
> what's changed in my radio.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 5/23/2019 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Pete,
>> 
>> If you download the newest manual, you will have the most up to date 
>> information that is printed in the manual.
>> 
>> Above and beyond that (and equally important), you should pay attention to 
>> the Firmware Release Notes.  They are on the website and also included on 
>> the K3 Utility Help Tab.
>> Those Firmware Release changes also constitute changes/additions to whatever 
>> level manual you have.  So if you mark up you manual starting with each 
>> firmware release after the date in the manual, you will have all the 
>> information in the manual.
>> 
>> I don't think it is practical for Elecraft to issue a new manual with each 
>> firmware release.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5/23/2019 3:55 PM, N4ZR wrote:
>>> One of the nice things about Elecraft gear is the continuous improvement 
>>> that goes on, even years after initial release.  Unfortunately, these 
>>> improvements are often only documented at release time, and nine years' 
>>> worth (in my case) is hard to organize.
>>> 
>>> Recently, I ran into issues with my middle-aged K3 that turned out to be 
>>> caused by a change in functionality  undocumented in my manual from 2010, 
>>> which I inadvertently triggered.
>>> 
>>> Why wouldn't it be possible to put someone to work identifying which pages 
>>> in each manual have been changed or added and then producing "change pages" 
>>> that we could print out and insert - for example a new page 6, and pages 
>>> 6a, 6b etc., as needed to bring the manual back in sync with the

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Re: [Elecraft] Proposal for change pages for manuals

[W2xj]

With enough money, all things are possible. :-)

Sent from my iPad

> On May 23, 2019, at 3:55 PM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> One of the nice things about Elecraft gear is the continuous improvement that 
> goes on, even years after initial release.  Unfortunately, these improvements 
> are often only documented at release time, and nine years' worth (in my case) 
> is hard to organize.
> 
> Recently, I ran into issues with my middle-aged K3 that turned out to be 
> caused by a change in functionality  undocumented in my manual from 2010, 
> which I inadvertently triggered.
> 
> Why wouldn't it be possible to put someone to work identifying which pages in 
> each manual have been changed or added and then producing "change pages" that 
> we could print out and insert - for example a new page 6, and pages 6a, 6b 
> etc., as needed to bring the manual back in sync with the hardware.
> 
> It seems to me that this job, while boring, wouldn't be that difficult, and 
> the benefits to us customers seem obvious.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4

[W2xj]

I really don’t care where it is made. 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 21, 2019, at 9:40 AM, Dick  wrote:
> 
> 
> And after reading all the comments on “why buy a K4, or even Elecraft when I 
> have Icoms et al, etc.” . Well I haven’t heard anyone say “MADE IN AMERICA”.  
> And as previously stated so well, add boards anytime to  update or add 
> desired features without having to pay for another “box” to house all the 
> interiors. Of course this is in MHO.
> 
> 73, Dick, W1REJ
> 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 and Predistortion

[W2xj]

With EER a class C or D amplifier can deliver an IMD of at least -80 DB but 
with pre-distortion it could be even better.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 19, 2019, at 3:38 AM, Roger  wrote:
> 
> As pointed out "PreEmphasis/DeEmphasis" and "PreDistortion" are two
> different things. So it is important to keep this in mind. To describe the
> process a little bit better it the introduction of "DeDistortion" would
> help. While DeEmphasis was done at the receiver end DeDistortion is done at
> the transmitter end by the amplifier. Just using one part of Distortion (or
> Emphasis) would really not reflect the true signal that is going into the
> microphone. As any amplifier stage is adding distortion it is appropriate to
> call the procedure done in the SDR (the ones that are capable of)
> PreDistortion. The DeDistortion in the amplifier gives you a much better
> approximation of a true linear amplification. Just ADDING Predistortion and
> not adding or better SUBTRACTING the proper amount of Dedistortion sure
> would make and leave the signal distorted.
> 
> 3rd order IMD in the range of -60 dB and with careful design even more is
> possible.
> 
> Consider this: the best receiver doesn´t help if a lot of average or below
> average quality signals are around and splattering into your "communication
> channel". The same is true if someone with a radio that creates a lot of
> phase noise is next to you - your radio can have a clean oscillator signal
> with low phase noise but still the other dirty signal will go into the
> equation.
> 
> So after it has been acknowledged that high phase noise oscillators are a NO
> GO these days the next consequent step would be to clean up the transmit
> signal in terms of intermodulation.
> 
> If someone tuning a motorcycle or a car he better not only tunes the engine
> for power but also adapt the brake system the chassis and everything else
> affected to handle the more power.
> 
> 73 Roger, DL5RBW
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2019 2:09 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 and Predistortion
> 
>> On 5/18/2019 4:01 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>> Those
>> of us with engineering backgrounds knew that what I was referring to 
>> as "pre-distortion" was the pre-emphasis / de-emphasis curves commonly 
>> used in FM broadcast audio chains.
> 
> All of which emphasizes the need for using the right words to describe
> things. The word "distortion" is most commonly used to describe
> non-linearity, not frequency response. And, BTW, that
> pre-emphasis/de-emphasis is a Standard, not just "commonly used." You know
> the Regs far better than I, but I suspect it's there too.
> 
> As I'm sure you know, it was also common practice to go FAR beyond that,
> with multi-band dynamics processing and the tricky stuff that Bob Orban was
> doing. The engineering "rule of thumb" was that if you could see the
> modulation monitor needle move, you weren't doing enough.:)
> 
> I did some research on the Orban FM processor, which I published as an AES
> Paper in 1986. http://k9yc.com/AESPaper-TDS.pdf
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM

[W2xj]

EQ should have nothing to do with solving the problem. EQ just masks it. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 26, 2019, at 6:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> I recall commenting earlier.  What TX EQ values are being used for AM. ?
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson  wrote:
>> 
>> My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower on the
>> other side of that wall.  I did turn off everything in the vicinity of the
>> desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar hum
>> from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought was it
>> was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the computer on
>> the other side of the room.  In this case it will be easier to move the rig
>> outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for the
>> moment.  It would have to be an impressively/obnoxiously strong magnetic
>> field from that side of the room to influence the transformers inside the
>> rig 8 feet away, but it's worth trying and simple enough to rule it out.
>> 
>>  Nick
>> 
>>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:51, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system,
>>> I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the
>>> K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load.  Power down all
>>> power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps.
>>> Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button.
>>> Is the hum still present?  If not, then start connecting things to your
>>> K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected.
>>> 
>>> Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact
>>> supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60
>>> Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the
>>> area.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>> 
>>> --
>> *N6OL*
>> Saying something doesn't make it true.  Belief in something doesn't make it
>> real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not
>> worth supporting.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM

[W2xj]

Sounds like some internal RF feedback.

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 26, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Nicklas Johnson  wrote:
> 
> This morning just for yuks, I also temporarily disconnected the ground from
> the rig entirely while also connecting only to a dummy load, so there could
> be no path to ground at all, let alone multiple paths.  No change.
> 
> I guess the next things I'll probably try are a full factory reset, and
> then perhaps popping it open to make sure nothing has come unseated.  But
> first I'll drop a line to Elecraft support too.  I've seen a number of
> people post about similar problems that either magically resolved
> themselves or ended up being a fault on the audio board.
> 
>   Nick
> 
> 
>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 23:27, Nicklas Johnson  wrote:
>> 
>> Again, the problem persists with all inputs completely disconnected and
>> the mic gain set at 0. And running solely on a battery into a dummy load.
>> 
>>   Nick
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 10:10 PM Jim Brown 
>> wrote:
>> 
 On 4/25/2019 8:15 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote:
 Physically touching the case or grabbing the barrel of the front panel
>>> mic
 connector actually does cause the buzz to get just a little softer.
>>> 
>>> I suspect either a bonding problem or a problem with the wiring of the
>>> mic.
>>> 
 I generally use solar/battery power, though my ground is bonded to my
 utility ground.
>>> 
>>> I suggest that you carefully study either N0AX's recent ARRL book on
>>> grounding and bonding, or the slides for talks I've given at Visalia and
>>> Pacifion.
>>> 
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> 
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>> 
> 
> -- 
> *N6OL*
> Saying something doesn't make it true.  Belief in something doesn't make it
> real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not
> worth supporting.
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Re: [Elecraft] SWR and Power Output

[W2xj]

I think that this was covered. You don’t run a solid state unit into a 
mismatch. The antenna tuner in effect takes the place of the output network 
that existed with tube rigs. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 10, 2019, at 11:39, Eugene  wrote:
> 
> The reason SWR should be of concern is the effect it has on what is presented 
> to the solid state output device(s) in your radio. 
> The output power and final stage current is determined by the load presented 
> by the antenna/tuner and the output matching network. 
> The output power is, P= supply voltage squared divided by 2xR(load). A 2:1 
> SWR could present a load either half or twice the design load for the 1:1 (50 
> ohm) SWR match or some where in between those two points with a complex 
> impedance being presented to the output device(s).
> Thus, the output power delivered by your radio and the final output device 
> current and efficiency  is directly related to the "match" presented to your 
> radio by your antenna and/or tuner.
> 
> Gene, N5LDX
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] Measuring SWR (Long)

[W2xj]

I agree except that even at 500KW a 2:1 or greater is the norm with open wire 
line. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 9, 2019, at 19:10, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> Well, the reflected power is created by a "virtual transmitter" at the 
> feedpoint of the antenna and heads down the coax which has a surge impedance 
> of Z0 ohms.  It meets the SO-239 at the TX and sees an impedance of Z1, the 
> impedance presented by the PA and output filters.  If Z1=Z0, the power is 
> dissipated as heat in the PA and associated RF circuitry.  If Z1<>Z0, some is 
> dissipated and some is reflected, where some is radiated, and some is 
> reflected [virtual transmitter again].  Ad infinitum, and when forever is 
> over, it is all gone and everyone lives happily ever after.
> 
> SWR and all the associated measuring equipment and concern with it only 
> became an issue when: 1) Coax replaced parallel lines and; 2) Resonant output 
> circuits were replaced by solid state amplifiers with non-resonant filters.  
> When I sat for the Extra in early 1956, the only question that involved 
> standing waves was one about how Lecher Lines could be used to measure 
> transmitter frequency.
> 
> It's important today but calculating it hasn't changed.  At 10 W, a 2:1 SWR 
> will probably work ok.  At 1500 W, a solid state amplifier may not be happy 
> with the voltages developed at its output connector.
> 
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 4/9/2019 5:56 PM, Don Sanders wrote:
>> Since no one has answered your question. I will venture a
>> supposition that many know but few will speak out.
>> And some still remember their CB days and the erroneous
>> advertising saying the power is lost.
>> Reflected Power flows back down the feed line and is subjected
>> to the normal feed line loss. It then is "reflected" back toward the
>> antenna, again subject to the feed line loss, where some of it is
>> radiated and some reflected again.
>> This continues until the power is dissipated. The book "Reflections"
>>  has a very good but somewhat technical explanation.
>> Therein also is the reference to forgetting about striving for the
>> "Holy Grail" of 1:1 SWR.
>> And concentrating on getting it low enough that the transmitter will
>> supply full power output. Also using the best low loss feed line and
>> proper matching when possible of the feed line to the antenna.
>> 
>> Dr. Don W4BWS
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] BIZARRE OFFERING FROM MFJ

[W2xj]

Mighty fine junk

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 7, 2019, at 10:22, Alan Bloom  wrote:
> 
> I've long had mixed feelings about MFJ.  They have some very
> interesting, innovative, and cost-competitive products.  However
> sometimes the quality isn't there.  For example I have an MFJ antenna
> analyzer that was intermittent until I fixed a poor ground connection. 
> I forget the details, but as I recall the problem was partly one of
> design. 
> 
> Alan N1AL 
> 
>> On 2019-04-07 09:28, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> 
>> I've used many MFJ products and in have had very little trouble with any of 
>> them. For example, I make frequent use an MFJ-223 hand-held VNA -- it's 
>> versatile and does the job. I've also used their manual tuners, antenna 
>> switches, and portable/mobile whips. They have a very comprehensive product 
>> line that's really unique in the industry.
>> 
>> That said, I do have some suggestions for MFJ's engineering team on how they 
>> might improve their ATU. 
>> 
>> Looking at the photo, I see that they used much smaller toroidal cores for 5 
>> of the 8 inductors in the L network. This could result in excessive heating, 
>> especially on the higher bands, at full power into a worst-case match. We 
>> specified T68 sized cores to remain conservative based on extensive testing. 
>> Also, if you click on the photo to see the details, you'll see what appears 
>> to be very inconsistent hand soldering of the SMD components. While this 
>> doesn't necessarily worsen performance or reliability, it should be done in 
>> a way that inspires confidence in the buyer. (Easy for me to say, of course. 
>> We have the luxury of mass-producing these assemblies using automated 
>> pick-and-place equipment at our fabricator in Monterey.)
>> 
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Remote antenna tuner

[W2xj]

Let me add that even a quarter wave vertical is rarely a perfect match. The 50 
ohm point is almost never the same as the j0 point. HF broadcasters don’t even 
try for a match. Typically open wire line is used and the match is achieved at 
the transmitter output network. They pump up to 500KW into VSWRs over 2:1. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 31, 2019, at 6:03 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> I also disagree.  AM broadcast verticals are designed to achieve a desired 
> pattern and main lobe elevation angle.  Over flat ground, 225 degrees will 
> optimize the ground wave coverage.  However, higher powered stations will 
> then suffer from self-interference at the coverage edges because the sky wave 
> and ground wave interfere.  It's common to shorten the antenna a bit to 
> perhaps 195 degrees or so which tends to reduce the self-interference.  Once 
> the pattern and main lobe angle have been defined, the feed point is matched 
> to the transmission line with an appropriate network.  Neither 225 degrees 
> [5/8 wave] nor 195 degrees are resonant lengths and both require a matching 
> network.
> 
> Many hams do not have the luxury of resonant antennas on every band.  It 
> seems perfectly reasonable to employ some sort of matching network to match 
> the feed point to the coax on bands where it is not resonant AND/OR does not 
> present a 50 ohm load to the coax and needing to do so does not imply there's 
> something wrong with the antenna.
> 
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 3/31/2019 9:44 AM, W2xj wrote:
>> I would disagree. Most high power commercial operations use non-resonant 
>> mismatched antennas. Typically there is either a tuner at the antenna or 
>> open wire is used.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Mar 31, 2019, at 12:13 PM, Ken G Kopp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If an antenna is showing a VSVR of 3:1, something about the situation
>>> is wrong, and most likely it's -not- the antenna.  Fix the problem … feed
>>> the antenna power where it's resonant, assuming the antenna is actually
>>> resonant on the amateur band of interest.  Expecting a tuner to compensate
>>> for a problem external to an antenna is unreasonable, IMO
>>> 
>>> 73!
>>> 
>>> Ken - K0PP
>>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Remote antenna tuner

[W2xj]

I would disagree. Most high power commercial operations use non-resonant 
mismatched antennas. Typically there is either a tuner at the antenna or open 
wire is used.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 31, 2019, at 12:13 PM, Ken G Kopp  wrote:
> 
> If an antenna is showing a VSVR of 3:1, something about the situation
> is wrong, and most likely it's -not- the antenna.  Fix the problem … feed
> the antenna power where it's resonant, assuming the antenna is actually
> resonant on the amateur band of interest.  Expecting a tuner to compensate
> for a problem external to an antenna is unreasonable, IMO
> 
> 73!
> 
> Ken - K0PP
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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[W2xj]

With proper forethought, they can. Proper location of ‘buttons’ on the screen 
and an overlay template could provide enough tactual feedback.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators. Elecraft 
> has always said they will provide support for blind operators.
> I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 3/25/2019 11:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. 
>> Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at 
>> them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it 
>> means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView 
>> on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has 
>> implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of 
>> stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and 
>> buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to 
>> see where they are. 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[W2xj]

It is easy to run FT8 or other digital modes on a Raspberry PI. Very 
inexpensive and very small. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
>> I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.
> 
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's modes 
> have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's trivially 
> easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control the radio from 
> the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R switching.
> 
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
> 
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[W2xj]

I’ve read a lot of interesting ideas relating mostly to features. Here are some 
cutting (or should I say bleeding) edge ideas.

The most radical would be to eliminate linear amplification on transmit. 
Instead, go with a class E design and in DSP generate EER compatible signals. 
This is how very high powered commercial transmitters do SSB but any waveform 
can be generated that way. Efficiency goes to nearly 90% as opposed to less 
than 50% for a linear. IMD can be lower than -80 db while power consumption is 
reduced and there is less heat to remove. This would be a radical departure 
from the competition and work well in portable operation. 

Bluetooth audio in and out.

As previously discussed, a built in webserver that is compatible with all 
devices adhering to HTML standards along with SNMP compatibility.

And, of course, the well discussed touchscreen. 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[W2xj]

When I was in high school my first station was Collins S Line and a triband 
beam on a 50 foot tower. Also, a Viking 500. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Peter Spotts  wrote:
> 
> Yes, the economics can be brutal. But the investment gap was ever thus. I'm a 
> boomer who first learned of amateur radio when I was in junior high school. I 
> wouldn't get my license until many years later. But I pored through Heathkit, 
> Allied, and Lafayette catalogs and visited our local Henry Radio store 
> looking longingly at the radios. Then, as now, there was a wide range of 
> price and performance. IIRC, the gold standard, or so it seemed, was the 
> original Collins line, before Rockwell bought them out. My meager in-person 
> sampling of stations at the time yielded a similar observation to yours: more 
> Heathkits, Drakes, Atlases, and others than Collins.
> 
> 
> In the end, I guess, we pay the price we must for a radio that meets our 
> operating interests and needs, and change radios if or as those interests 
> change.
> 
> 
> As a mid-price-ish rig, "We'll always have the K2 [he hoped]; here's QSLin' 
> you, kid."
> 
> 
> A satisfied K1, KX1 builder/user...
> 
> 
> W/best regards,
> 
> Pete
> --
> 
> --
> Peter N. Spotts -- NM5PS
> ARRL Public Information Coordinator, New Mexico Section
> http://www.nm5ps.net | Email: nm...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts
> QCWA #34679 | SKCC #4853S | QRP-ARCI #4174 | CalQRP #67
> NEQRP #714 | NAQCC #2446 | G-QRP #13202 | Polar Bear #348
> 
>> On March 25, 2019 08:45:07 Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>> 
>> With all of the wonderful ideas and features advanced for a K4, I find
>> one thing which has been seemingly omitted. PRICE! Yep, hams want
>> radios with all the features whistle band bells along with alleged
>> performance.. in the $1000 price range. Look at the volume
>> of sales of radios in this price range. A large majority of hams today
>> do not have $3500 to $6500 to invest in a radio. Yes I know the
>> technology, engineering investment and cost to produce is a major
>> component of price. But still, hams want inexpensive radios. It may
>> not be feasible to produce a product in the $1000 price range, but ICOM,
>> Kenwood and Yaesu seem to think so.
>> 
>> 
>> ICOM IC-7300 = $979; Yaesu FT 991A = $1100; Kenwood TS-590SG = $1200;
>> Yaesu FT-DX3000 = $ 1300; Kenwood TS-480HX = $1000
>> 
>> 
>> Yes I know these are not in the performance league of the current K3S,
>> but these are what is on the air, in mass, today.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> Very happy with my:
>> 
>> 
>> K3S, KPA500, KAT500 and P3
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> --
> Peter N. Spotts -- NM5PS
> ARRL Public Information Coordinator, New Mexico Section
> http://www.nm5ps.net | Email: nm...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts
> QCWA #34679 | SKCC #4853S | QRP-ARCI #4174 | CalQRP #67
> NEQRP #714 | NAQCC #2446 | G-QRP #13202 | Polar Bear #348
> 
> 
>> On March 25, 2019 08:45:07 Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>> 
>> With all of the wonderful ideas and features advanced for a K4, I find
>> one thing which has been seemingly omitted.PRICE!Yep, hams want
>> radios with all the features whistle band bells along with alleged
>> performance.. in the $1000 price range. Look at the volume
>> of sales of radios in this price range.   A large majority of hams today
>> do not have $3500 to $6500 to invest in a radio.   Yes I know the
>> technology, engineering investment and cost to produce is a major
>> component of price.  But still, hams want inexpensive radios.   It may
>> not be feasible to produce a product in the $1000 price range, but ICOM,
>> Kenwood and Yaesu seem to think so.
>> 
>> ICOM IC-7300 = $979;  Yaesu FT 991A = $1100;  Kenwood TS-590SG = $1200;
>> Yaesu FT-DX3000 = $ 1300;  Kenwood TS-480HX = $1000
>> 
>> Yes I know these are not in the performance league of the current K3S,
>> but these are what is on the air, in mass, today.
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> Very happy with my:
>> 
>> K3S, KPA500, KAT500 and P3
>> 
>> 
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> 

Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[W2xj]

This would be well suited for the use of SNMP. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Mike Markowski  wrote:
> 
> Eric,
> 
> On the computer side of things, how about:
> 
> 1. Ethernet, socket-based communication with rig.  Imagine AUTO INFO
> replies direct to IP/port!  No more clashing programs.
> 2. Everything controllable by commands (like RF gain).
> 3. Info directly gettable.  E.g., no need to 'decode' display.
> 4. State directly settable. No need to emulate series of button pushes.
> 5. Pixel based display can convey much info when used with care. (Graphs,
> block diagram showing what is affected by a control.  Things like, but
> better & more compact than, my old K2DSP code:
> http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/k2filter/ )
> 
> 73,
> Mike ab3ap
> 
> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>> 
>>> Eric
>>> elecraft.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[W2xj]

Old news. They have existed for a while. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z)  wrote:
> 
> I suspect touch screens are just a fad for rigs...  Imagine one in your 
> moving car...
> 
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL OOC for Oregon
> 
>> On 3/24/19 5:35 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to come 
>> on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning around at 
>> this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
>> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he were 
>> breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal tuning 
>> up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant clammy hands. 
>> He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's touch screen. He 
>> taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch screen. Please 
>> recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard 
>> them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, 
>> time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted 
>> screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that 
>> people do when they're trying to make their device understand that they in 
>> fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly, the DX stops 
>> calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, 
>> wondering why those 

Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[W2xj]

I’ve been using touchscreens for 35 years. My experience is not what you 
describe. Actually it is very much the opposite. Mechanical switches are the 
least reliable. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 8:35 PM, Al Lorona  wrote:
> 
> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to come on 
> the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning around at this 
> moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
> 
> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he were 
> breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal tuning 
> up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant clammy hands. 
> He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's touch screen. He 
> taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch screen. Please 
> recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard 
> them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, 
> time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted 
> screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that 
> people do when they're trying to make their device understand that they in 
> fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly, the DX stops 
> calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, 
> wondering why those 

Re: [Elecraft] Purpose of this group

[W2xj]

Digests are decades out of date. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 3:52 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/24/2019 8:07 AM, Kevin der Kinderen wrote:
>> A little flexibility in the content keeps it interesting. Delete key works
>> fine.
> 
> It does if you get individual emails, but not if you get a digest, which is 
> why I don't use the digest mode.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Purpose of this group

[W2xj]

I have every list email I have received since 1992. I have been able to 
re-build list archives. I have never understood this ‘bandwidth’  or size limit 
garbage. Most have nearly unlimited bandwidth and more storage than needed for 
email. I find digests and web views more offensive. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Kevin der Kinderen  wrote:
> 
> A little flexibility in the content keeps it interesting. Delete key works
> fine. I probably delete 90+ percent of all the emails I receive from the
> few groups I follow. Maybe an odd thing but I like to follow the OT
> comments on the weekends.
> 
> If strict content control is a requirement consider a book, newspaper or
> magazine and skip the editorials and opinion columns. They usually stay on
> topic and don't allow the conversation to stray.
> 
> OT stuff has a pretty short life here. Apparently not short enough for some.
> 
> 73,
> Kev K4VD
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 10:14 AM W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> Nor do I but I think this group is excessively over moderated. OT
>> discussions are usually the most interesting but causes the moderator to
>> have issues.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Roger D Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have no interest in most of the technical discussions.
>>> 
>>> Roger N1RJ
>>> 
>>>> On 3/24/2019 8:40 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Am I correct that this is a technical group? Or, is posting space to be
>> taken up by non-technical discussions of which many users have no interest?
>>>> Bill W2BLC owner/user
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Re: [Elecraft] Purpose of this group

[W2xj]

Nor do I but I think this group is excessively over moderated. OT discussions 
are usually the most interesting but causes the moderator to have issues. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Roger D Johnson  wrote:
> 
> I have no interest in most of the technical discussions.
> 
> Roger N1RJ
> 
>> On 3/24/2019 8:40 AM, Bill wrote:
>> 
>> Am I correct that this is a technical group? Or, is posting space to be 
>> taken up by non-technical discussions of which many users have no interest?
>> Bill W2BLC owner/user
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