Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Yes, Ron, I also prefer wide bandpass for CW most of the time. Still, it would be very nice indeed on those infrequent occasions to not have to do the RIT/SHIFT mambo when using a narrow filter... Actually, even with my typical wide open filter I think I'd use a live-signal pitch control quite often, not having to necessarilly bother with RIT or split VFOs. Seems like a natural that CW signal pitch would be a parameter that should have a dedicated control; but instead it takes several steps to accomplish. Sorry about derailing the APF topic; I think I lost track of how that was going to be implemented on the K3, but I'm looking forward to it in any case. 73, Drew AF2Z On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 08:53:08 -0700, Ron AC7AC wrote: He wants to vary the pitch without moving the signal in the bandpass, Don. That's a non-issue using a wide bandpass and one of the reasons I don't use narrow filters except on rare occasions when absolutely necessary. With a wide pass band I can just move the VFO (I'm *always* in SPLIT mode so TX stays on frequency.) Like Drew, I often shift the tone of the signal as I'm copying based on the nature of the noise, but it's not practical to do with a very sharp filter when straining to make out a weak signal. Losing the signal at all while juggling SHIFT means missing characters and hunting for it again with uncertain results. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
This is a really good thread and I'm enjoying reading the theory! I'm always being called off frequency during contests so SHIFT would be the obvious choice! Being an ex FT2000 owner I used the contour settings and it was bril. Ken..G0ORH CW4EVER Sent from my iPhone On 26 Oct 2010, at 03:12, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: For the same reason that they want to use SHIFT: because sometimes stations call you off-frequency. Wayne On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: Wes, The TX and VFO frequencies won't behave any differently with APF turned on, if that's what you're asking. They'll still be corrected for your sidetone pitch, as always. APF will behave like a tunable narrow filter superimposed on the normal passband. Its initial frequency would match the sidetone pitch, but you'll be able to move it around using the shift control. We're still playing with it. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Paul, I would be very happy to just have a live PITCH control, as has been requested a number of times. By live I mean being able to hear the received signals as you vary their pitch, without changing their location in the passband. That would be much better than having to first adjust RIT for a more suitable pitch tone then subsequently having to catch up to it with SHIFT as you describe below. As it is now, PITCH is a sidetone control, not a signal control. When you turn on PITCH the sidetone comes on and the signals go away. To me it is as nearly inconvenient as it would be having the signals go away every time I moved the AF Gain control. The peaking part of APF would be a nice enhancement but it's the live pitch control that I really want. 73, Drew AF2Z On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:12:51 -0400, Paul, W9AC wrote: Here's an example of using APF in conjunction with RIT. I normally leave my CW offset at 650 Hz. Some of my CW operating is very weak signal DX on the low bands. When copying extremely weak DX in the midst of static crashes, I need to temporarily shift pitch to less than 400 Hz. Some ops, including W4ZV, have noted that weak CW copy can improve when low pitch is used. I also don't want to tamper with my normal CW offset if I don't need to. By engaging in RIT, I would like to temporally dip the incoming pitch, leave my CW offset alone where I want it 95% of the time, and then adjust the frequency of the APF to match/peak the incoming pitch selected by RIT. If I want to experiment with different pitch settings based on band conditions, I also want the ability for the APF peak to track the pitch I've selected on RIT. That requires a tunable APF. This is precisely what the FT-1000/D gave its users. Of course, the greater the departure of the RIT pitch from the offset may require a wider DSP filter setting and/or roofing filter. But under these weak band conditions, wide DSP and roofing filters are just fine when band activity and adjacent interference is low or moderate. When I'm working early morning grayline DX on 80m or 40m, I rarely encounter strong adjacent stations since conditions are long and stateside is not heard much of the time. Because of this, my overall Rx bandwidth is generally set to 2.8 kHz or greater. Even when weak DX is running split and listening up 2 kHz, there's ample separation to allow a filter settings wide enough to depart a few hundred Hz from the CW offset. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Drew, ?HUH? The pitch function that you say you want - change the pitch of a received signal - already exists, just turn the VFO knob, it will change the pitch of the signals which are being received. Normally one would want to tune the desired signal to the pitch which matches the sidetone, not the other way around. Just tap the SPOT button to zero-beat, in fact the K3 can do that automatically (within a limited range). Things that are changed by the PITCH control are the pitch of the sidetone you listen to during transmission, the frequency offset used for transmission and the CWT center frequency as well as the position of the center of the CW passband - it does not change the pitch of signals being received. Can you be more specific about what you want. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 9:37 AM, drewko wrote: Paul, I would be very happy to just have a live PITCH control, as has been requested a number of times. By live I mean being able to hear the received signals as you vary their pitch, without changing their location in the passband. That would be much better than having to first adjust RIT for a more suitable pitch tone then subsequently having to catch up to it with SHIFT as you describe below. As it is now, PITCH is a sidetone control, not a signal control. When you turn on PITCH the sidetone comes on and the signals go away. To me it is as nearly inconvenient as it would be having the signals go away every time I moved the AF Gain control. The peaking part of APF would be a nice enhancement but it's the live pitch control that I really want. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
He wants to vary the pitch without moving the signal in the bandpass, Don. That's a non-issue using a wide bandpass and one of the reasons I don't use narrow filters except on rare occasions when absolutely necessary. With a wide pass band I can just move the VFO (I'm *always* in SPLIT mode so TX stays on frequency.) Like Drew, I often shift the tone of the signal as I'm copying based on the nature of the noise, but it's not practical to do with a very sharp filter when straining to make out a weak signal. Losing the signal at all while juggling SHIFT means missing characters and hunting for it again with uncertain results. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Drew, ?HUH? The pitch function that you say you want - change the pitch of a received signal - already exists, just turn the VFO knob, it will change the pitch of the signals which are being received. Normally one would want to tune the desired signal to the pitch which matches the sidetone, not the other way around. Just tap the SPOT button to zero-beat, in fact the K3 can do that automatically (within a limited range). Things that are changed by the PITCH control are the pitch of the sidetone you listen to during transmission, the frequency offset used for transmission and the CWT center frequency as well as the position of the center of the CW passband - it does not change the pitch of signals being received. Can you be more specific about what you want. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes Wes, When I used the FT1000D APF on extremely weak lowband signals, I didn't want to touch the tuning knob, for fear of losing the station. Once I heard a trace of a signal, I'd engage the APF and vary to pitch to bring the signal out of the noise as best I could. Barry W2UP -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/APF-For-K3-tp5671688p5676492.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
I use the APF on my 1000D in the same fashion. 73 Gene K1NR K2 6kxx On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Barry w...@comcast.net wrote: Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes Wes, When I used the FT1000D APF on extremely weak lowband signals, I didn't want to touch the tuning knob, for fear of losing the station. Once I heard a trace of a signal, I'd engage the APF and vary to pitch to bring the signal out of the noise as best I could. Barry W2UP -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/APF-For-K3-tp5671688p5676492.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wow Don, you really really missed his point. He's trying to say that the Pitch control turns on a tone generator while you're setting it. He's asking that when you push the button that sets the pitch freq. that the tone isn't generated.. That way he can hear the person he's talking to while adjusting the freq. of his IF's center pass band area. Plenty of us wish we had this ability.. There are MANY times when I feel like I want to adjust the tone of the persons signal without moving it away from the IF center, and then having to chase after it with the shift knob.. His idea would do exactly that. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:50:51 -0400 From: w3...@embarqmail.com To: drew...@verizon.net CC: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Drew, ?HUH? The pitch function that you say you want - change the pitch of a received signal - already exists, just turn the VFO knob, it will change the pitch of the signals which are being received. Normally one would want to tune the desired signal to the pitch which matches the sidetone, not the other way around. Just tap the SPOT button to zero-beat, in fact the K3 can do that automatically (within a limited range). Things that are changed by the PITCH control are the pitch of the sidetone you listen to during transmission, the frequency offset used for transmission and the CWT center frequency as well as the position of the center of the CW passband - it does not change the pitch of signals being received. Can you be more specific about what you want. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 9:37 AM, drewko wrote: Paul, I would be very happy to just have a live PITCH control, as has been requested a number of times. By live I mean being able to hear the received signals as you vary their pitch, without changing their location in the passband. That would be much better than having to first adjust RIT for a more suitable pitch tone then subsequently having to catch up to it with SHIFT as you describe below. As it is now, PITCH is a sidetone control, not a signal control. When you turn on PITCH the sidetone comes on and the signals go away. To me it is as nearly inconvenient as it would be having the signals go away every time I moved the AF Gain control. The peaking part of APF would be a nice enhancement but it's the live pitch control that I really want. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Sorry, but I did not miss his point. It simply boggles my mind that someone would want to change his chosen sidetone pitch. I have chosen mine carefully - that is the pitch where my mind/ears perceive the CW with the best clarity and comfort over the 'long haul'. I can understand why some might want to make a change of pace during a long contest, and change the sidetone pitch a bit - but for normal operating, I want the pitch to be the same as I have previously selected -- that is the pitch where I can operate CW best. My own choice is 650 Hz, but yours may be different. To change the pitch for a particular QSO seems counterproductive to me. If one is hearing a signal best at a pitch which is not the current one set for the sidetone, I would think that to be an indication that I have chosen the wrong sidetone pitch and I should think seriously about changing to that pitch that I perceive to be the best in the midst of signals on the band. I guess this is part of the reason we hear so many QSOs that are not zero beat. We used to know how to do that very well with separate transmitters and receivers, but in these days of transceivers, I think we have lost that ability - it seems to me that if we can hear a signal within our passband, that we should just transmit and expect to be answered - with no need to zero-beat. Sorry, but it just does not work that way - the other station may have narrow filters on and may not hear us. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 5:13 PM, The Smiths wrote: Wow Don, you really really missed his point. He's trying to say that the Pitch control turns on a tone generator while you're setting it. He's asking that when you push the button that sets the pitch freq. that the tone isn't generated.. That way he can hear the person he's talking to while adjusting the freq. of his IF's center pass band area. Plenty of us wish we had this ability.. There are MANY times when I feel like I want to adjust the tone of the persons signal without moving it away from the IF center, and then having to chase after it with the shift knob.. His idea would do exactly that. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:50:51 -0400 From: w3...@embarqmail.com To: drew...@verizon.net CC: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Drew, ?HUH? The pitch function that you say you want - change the pitch of a received signal - already exists, just turn the VFO knob, it will change the pitch of the signals which are being received. Normally one would want to tune the desired signal to the pitch which matches the sidetone, not the other way around. Just tap the SPOT button to zero-beat, in fact the K3 can do that automatically (within a limited range). Things that are changed by the PITCH control are the pitch of the sidetone you listen to during transmission, the frequency offset used for transmission and the CWT center frequency as well as the position of the center of the CW passband - it does not change the pitch of signals being received. Can you be more specific about what you want. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 9:37 AM, drewko wrote: Paul, I would be very happy to just have a live PITCH control, as has been requested a number of times. By live I mean being able to hear the received signals as you vary their pitch, without changing their location in the passband. That would be much better than having to first adjust RIT for a more suitable pitch tone then subsequently having to catch up to it with SHIFT as you describe below. As it is now, PITCH is a sidetone control, not a signal control. When you turn on PITCH the sidetone comes on and the signals go away. To me it is as nearly inconvenient as it would be having the signals go away every time I moved the AF Gain control. The peaking part of APF would be a nice enhancement but it's the live pitch control that I really want. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
On Oct 26, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: It simply boggles my mind that someone would want to change his chosen sidetone pitch. Don, the difference on usability could perhaps boil down to this: In one case you are trying to peak a signal with a fixed pitched inside noise. There is only a single variable -- the pitch does not change, only the SNR changes as you twiddle a knob. In the second case (moving the VFO knob), you are changing both the pitch and at the same time trying to optimize SNR. Your ear-brain system has to deal with two variables. It might be easier to peak a signal using the former technique (at least I prefer it). This is true even when you are trying to peak a signal in a spectrum display (i.e., when you try to peak a signal visually instead of aurally). With that being said... after successfully peaking the signal, a single button press to move both the tone and the filter to the preferred pitch could be be ideal for me. (My Yaesu does not allow that after peaking a signal.) Programmatically moving the result to the preferred pitch is easy to do too, since the center of the filter peak is obviously known to the software. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Exactly Don, my point exactly, You DID miss the point. You DON'T understand why someone would want to do it. That's why you can't understand why he's asking for what he's asking. We're not all built out of stone. We don't all want to listen or send our CW at the same pitch all the time. If find that in Noisy conditions I like to lower my side tone down to 380Hz, yet when I'm in a casual QSO I find that I receive better at about 450Hz. When I have 2 stations that are close to each other, and I need the notch to do something for me that it doesn't do as well when I have the pitch set to a low freq. I like to have my pitch set up around 650Hz. It just depends on the conditions, the noise level, the stations that are in the pass band, and how I use the tools that the K3 has to deal with them. IE DSP, NR, NB, RF GAIN, Notch, Soon to be APF, REV CW mode, etc. It's more than just my comfort zone when it comes to the IF pass band, or centering someone in it. We don't all use our radios the same, as I'm sure you already know. For this reason, I DO understand exactly why this person would want to be able to shift his IF WHILE in a QSO, WITHOUT having to interrupt it with the side tone pitch freq. as he's doing so. I've had this happen to me on more than one occasion. As for the Zero Beating, oh boy are you right. People out there have no idea that their side tone has anything to do with their IF Center. They all expect that you have your filter open up to 1KHz when they answer you... I can't tell you how many times people will answer me as much as 100Hz off of my IF center. But they can't all afford a K3 I guess. The new rigs these days don't all tell you when you're in the IF center. The ones that do pretty much have a little orange light that comes on, and most of the people that use these radios don't even understand why that's there. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:07:46 -0400 From: w3...@embarqmail.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Sorry, but I did not miss his point. It simply boggles my mind that someone would want to change his chosen sidetone pitch. I have chosen mine carefully - that is the pitch where my mind/ears perceive the CW with the best clarity and comfort over the 'long haul'. I can understand why some might want to make a change of pace during a long contest, and change the sidetone pitch a bit - but for normal operating, I want the pitch to be the same as I have previously selected -- that is the pitch where I can operate CW best. My own choice is 650 Hz, but yours may be different. To change the pitch for a particular QSO seems counterproductive to me. If one is hearing a signal best at a pitch which is not the current one set for the sidetone, I would think that to be an indication that I have chosen the wrong sidetone pitch and I should think seriously about changing to that pitch that I perceive to be the best in the midst of signals on the band. I guess this is part of the reason we hear so many QSOs that are not zero beat. We used to know how to do that very well with separate transmitters and receivers, but in these days of transceivers, I think we have lost that ability - it seems to me that if we can hear a signal within our passband, that we should just transmit and expect to be answered - with no need to zero-beat. Sorry, but it just does not work that way - the other station may have narrow filters on and may not hear us. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 5:13 PM, The Smiths wrote: Wow Don, you really really missed his point. He's trying to say that the Pitch control turns on a tone generator while you're setting it. He's asking that when you push the button that sets the pitch freq. that the tone isn't generated.. That way he can hear the person he's talking to while adjusting the freq. of his IF's center pass band area. Plenty of us wish we had this ability.. There are MANY times when I feel like I want to adjust the tone of the persons signal without moving it away from the IF center, and then having to chase after it with the shift knob.. His idea would do exactly that. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:50:51 -0400 From: w3...@embarqmail.com To: drew...@verizon.net CC: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Drew, ?HUH? The pitch function that you say you want - change the pitch of a received signal - already exists, just turn the VFO knob, it will change the pitch of the signals which are being received. Normally one would want to tune the desired signal to the pitch which matches the sidetone, not the other way around. Just tap the SPOT button to zero-beat, in fact the K3 can do that automatically (within a limited range). Things that are changed by the PITCH control are the pitch of the sidetone you listen to during
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
I've suggested to Wayne a few times that we should have a SPOT button that works for the Receive ONLY. IE. when you have the RIT button on, and you hit SPOT it moves the Receive RIT control to center the IF pass band. Just like it does with the main VFO now. This would allow someone to SEND a CQ, have someone answer you off your IF Center, and then auto SPOT them in without having to move the RIT knob. This would allow you to keep put with your transmitter location and then QUICKLY turn that WIDTH knob down to 50 Hz KNOWING with confidence that you're not going to remove them from your receivers IF Pass band. This wouldn't change much about the K3 at all, it would only ADD to the features it has now. I'm not sure why anyone would want to SPOT their rig after someone has answered THEIR CQ off freq. It would just cause the both of you to either loose contact (depending how far off you were) or for the two people to be chasing each other around in circles as each one keeps tuning the other. Of course, when the RIT button is NOT on, the spot would work EXACTLY as it does now. Makes perfect sense to me. For those that wonder what happens when the XIT button is pushed, well, it just acts like it does now, the spot will move the XIT still. The ONLY change is when the RIT button alone is turned on.. then the SPOT works like an AUTO SPOTTING RIT control.. simple, yet VERY helpful for fast tuning and filtering. For those that don't like it, well I guess it can be an option you can turn on and off, just like balance contol etc.. in the Config MENU. RIT = SPOT or RIT = NOR... Not sure why it never made it into the list of things to be added to the rig. Seems like a pretty simple one Or did it? Wayne... From: c...@mac.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:33:41 -0700 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report On Oct 26, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: It simply boggles my mind that someone would want to change his chosen sidetone pitch. Don, the difference on usability could perhaps boil down to this: In one case you are trying to peak a signal with a fixed pitched inside noise. There is only a single variable -- the pitch does not change, only the SNR changes as you twiddle a knob. In the second case (moving the VFO knob), you are changing both the pitch and at the same time trying to optimize SNR. Your ear-brain system has to deal with two variables. It might be easier to peak a signal using the former technique (at least I prefer it). This is true even when you are trying to peak a signal in a spectrum display (i.e., when you try to peak a signal visually instead of aurally). With that being said... after successfully peaking the signal, a single button press to move both the tone and the filter to the preferred pitch could be be ideal for me. (My Yaesu does not allow that after peaking a signal.) Programmatically moving the result to the preferred pitch is easy to do too, since the center of the filter peak is obviously known to the software. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
On 10/26/2010 5:28 PM, The Smiths wrote: If find that in Noisy conditions I like to lower my side tone down to 380Hz, yet when I'm in a casual QSO I find that I receive better at about 450Hz. Yes. There's another psychoacoustic principle at work here, as well as an electronic one. 50 Hz is a larger percentage of 350 Hz than of 600 Hz. This gives the ear/brain more to work with in discriminating tones (and noise) that are closer in Hz, and it also makes the filter have less percentage bandwidth, which means that, all things being equal, it has better performance than a filter designed for the higher audio frequency. Ah, you say, these are digital filters, so it doesn't matter. Wrong -- digital filters are simply digital emulations of analog filters, and the math that makes analog filters do what they do has the same effect on the emulations! So there's no free lunch -- the digital filters are simply far more flexible, because you're building with bits, not Ls and Cs. :) And there's a third VERY important operational principle, which i think you and others have alluded to -- all of this must be done VERY QUICKLY -- the entire QSO may only last 15 seconds, and you can easily lose a CQ frequency while taking too long to dig a weak one out of the mud. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
I tend to agree. However, if people insist in doing this then as I said earlier if one is going to use a tunable audio filter adjusted to a frequency other than what the Pitch control is currently set for, then the pitch frequency should follow along so that it affects the transmitter as well. If this APF is implemented this way then it becomes the live pitch control being asked for. Any other implementation becomes an unintended RIT control. Wes --- On Tue, 10/26/10, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Sorry, but I did not miss his point. It simply boggles my mind that someone would want to change his chosen sidetone pitch. I have chosen mine carefully - that is the pitch where my mind/ears perceive the CW with the best clarity and comfort over the 'long haul'. I can understand why some might want to make a change of pace during a long contest, and change the sidetone pitch a bit - but for normal operating, I want the pitch to be the same as I have previously selected -- that is the pitch where I can operate CW best. My own choice is 650 Hz, but yours may be different. To change the pitch for a particular QSO seems counterproductive to me. If one is hearing a signal best at a pitch which is not the current one set for the sidetone, I would think that to be an indication that I have chosen the wrong sidetone pitch and I should think seriously about changing to that pitch that I perceive to be the best in the midst of signals on the band. I guess this is part of the reason we hear so many QSOs that are not zero beat. We used to know how to do that very well with separate transmitters and receivers, but in these days of transceivers, I think we have lost that ability - it seems to me that if we can hear a signal within our passband, that we should just transmit and expect to be answered - with no need to zero-beat. Sorry, but it just does not work that way - the other station may have narrow filters on and may not hear us. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 5:13 PM, The Smiths wrote: Wow Don, you really really missed his point. He's trying to say that the Pitch control turns on a tone generator while you're setting it. He's asking that when you push the button that sets the pitch freq. that the tone isn't generated.. That way he can hear the person he's talking to while adjusting the freq. of his IF's center pass band area. Plenty of us wish we had this ability.. There are MANY times when I feel like I want to adjust the tone of the persons signal without moving it away from the IF center, and then having to chase after it with the shift knob.. His idea would do exactly that. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:50:51 -0400 From: w3...@embarqmail.com To: drew...@verizon.net CC: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Drew, ?HUH? The pitch function that you say you want - change the pitch of a received signal - already exists, just turn the VFO knob, it will change the pitch of the signals which are being received. Normally one would want to tune the desired signal to the pitch which matches the sidetone, not the other way around. Just tap the SPOT button to zero-beat, in fact the K3 can do that automatically (within a limited range). Things that are changed by the PITCH control are the pitch of the sidetone you listen to during transmission, the frequency offset used for transmission and the CWT center frequency as well as the position of the center of the CW passband - it does not change the pitch of signals being received. Can you be more specific about what you want. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 9:37 AM, drewko wrote: Paul, I would be very happy to just have a live PITCH control, as has been requested a number of times. By live I mean being able to hear the received signals as you vary their pitch, without changing their location in the passband. That would be much better than having to first adjust RIT for a more suitable pitch tone then subsequently having to catch up to it with SHIFT as you describe below. As it is now, PITCH is a sidetone control, not a signal control. When you turn on PITCH the sidetone comes on and the signals go away. To me it is as nearly inconvenient as it would be having the signals go away every time I moved the AF Gain control. The peaking part of APF would be a nice enhancement but it's the live pitch control that I really want. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wow! I'm new to Elecraft (K3) and this list, and only enough time to read 25 or so posting each day, which leaves me in the dust. I'm too busy setting up my M/2 station for this season and getting used to the K3 which will be on one side for the first time. But, I gotta ask, what in the heck is APF? Clearly, I'm suffering from TMI (too much information). Being a cw contester for over 50 years, I guess I'm far less fussy on the details than most of you, which is probably why I've waited so long to add my first K3 and hopefully, the second very soon. John, N0IJ In a message dated 10/26/2010 19:28:32 Central Daylight Time, notforc...@hotmail.com writes: Exactly Don, my point exactly, You DID miss the point. You DON'T understand why someone would want to do it. That's why you can't understand why he's asking for what he's asking. We're not all built out of stone. We don't all want to listen or send our CW at the same pitch all the time. If find that in Noisy conditions I like to lower my side tone down to 380Hz, yet when I'm in a casual QSO I find that I receive better at about 450Hz. When I have 2 stations that are close to each other, and I need the notch to do something for me that it doesn't do as well when I have the pitch set to a low freq. I like to have my pitch set up around 650Hz. It just depends on the conditions, the noise level, the stations that are in the pass band, and how I use the tools that the K3 has to deal with them. IE DSP, NR, NB, RF GAIN, Notch, Soon to be APF, REV CW mode, etc. It's more than just my comfort zone when it comes to the IF pass band, or centering someone in it. We don't all use our radios the same, as I'm sure you already know. For this reason, I DO understand exactly why this person would want to be able to shift his IF WHILE in a QSO, WITHOUT having to interrupt it with the side tone pitch freq. as he's doing so. I've had this happen to me on more than one occasion. As for the Zero Beating, oh boy are you right. People out there have no idea that their side tone has anything to do with their IF Center. They all expect that you have your filter open up to 1KHz when they answer you... I can't tell you how many times people will answer me as much as 100Hz off of my IF center. But they can't all afford a K3 I guess. The new rigs these days don't all tell you when you're in the IF center. The ones that do pretty much have a little orange light that comes on, and most of the people that use these radios don't even understand why that's there. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:07:46 -0400 From: w3...@embarqmail.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Sorry, but I did not miss his point. It simply boggles my mind that someone would want to change his chosen sidetone pitch. I have chosen mine carefully - that is the pitch where my mind/ears perceive the CW with the best clarity and comfort over the 'long haul'. I can understand why some might want to make a change of pace during a long contest, and change the sidetone pitch a bit - but for normal operating, I want the pitch to be the same as I have previously selected -- that is the pitch where I can operate CW best. My own choice is 650 Hz, but yours may be different. To change the pitch for a particular QSO seems counterproductive to me. If one is hearing a signal best at a pitch which is not the current one set for the sidetone, I would think that to be an indication that I have chosen the wrong sidetone pitch and I should think seriously about changing to that pitch that I perceive to be the best in the midst of signals on the band. I guess this is part of the reason we hear so many QSOs that are not zero beat. We used to know how to do that very well with separate transmitters and receivers, but in these days of transceivers, I think we have lost that ability - it seems to me that if we can hear a signal within our passband, that we should just transmit and expect to be answered - with no need to zero-beat. Sorry, but it just does not work that way - the other station may have narrow filters on and may not hear us. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 5:13 PM, The Smiths wrote: Wow Don, you really really missed his point. He's trying to say that the Pitch control turns on a tone generator while you're setting it. He's asking that when you push the button that sets the pitch freq. that the tone isn't generated.. That way he can hear the person he's talking to while adjusting the freq. of his IF's center pass band area. Plenty of us wish we had this ability.. There are MANY times when I feel like I want to adjust the tone of the persons signal without moving it away from the IF center, and then having to chase after it with the shift knob.. His idea would do exactly
[Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Hi John! Welcome to the list You'll find much discussion on here ... some of interest to you and some not, but overall, a great source of information. APF refers to audio pass (or peaking) filter, a feature common on many radios, and sometimes known by other names, depending on the manufacturer. It's best represented in the FT-990 and FT-1000D, IMO. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP elecraftcov...@rfwave.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wes, I don't think that you're getting it. The APF has nothing to do with TONE, it has to do with Peaking a freq. within the Band Pass filter area. You don't always want to change the tone just because you're moving the peak of a signal.. We're not talking about an IF center peak, we're talking about peaking a PART of the tone you're already listening to... There's no need to move the RIT or the Pitch with the APF at all.. You're just confusing things, and asking for changes that have nothing to do with an APF control knob. You have to separate the idea of freq., tone, and Peaking a portion of a signal... They're ALL different things here. My shift knob sets the center of my IF Pass band, my RIT knob moves people into the tone that my Pitch is set to (yes center of the IF usually), and APF should peak a portion of that IF area that I choose (like a manual Notch filter does, but reverse)... Not move it around. 3 different things here... Does it make more sense to you? Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 18:06:00 -0700 From: n...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report To: notforc...@hotmail.com; d...@w3fpr.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net I tend to agree. However, if people insist in doing this then as I said earlier if one is going to use a tunable audio filter adjusted to a frequency other than what the Pitch control is currently set for, then the pitch frequency should follow along so that it affects the transmitter as well. If this APF is implemented this way then it becomes the live pitch control being asked for. Any other implementation becomes an unintended RIT control. Wes --- On Tue, 10/26/10, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Sorry, but I did not miss his point. It simply boggles my mind that someone would want to change his chosen sidetone pitch. I have chosen mine carefully - that is the pitch where my mind/ears perceive the CW with the best clarity and comfort over the 'long haul'. I can understand why some might want to make a change of pace during a long contest, and change the sidetone pitch a bit - but for normal operating, I want the pitch to be the same as I have previously selected -- that is the pitch where I can operate CW best. My own choice is 650 Hz, but yours may be different. To change the pitch for a particular QSO seems counterproductive to me. If one is hearing a signal best at a pitch which is not the current one set for the sidetone, I would think that to be an indication that I have chosen the wrong sidetone pitch and I should think seriously about changing to that pitch that I perceive to be the best in the midst of signals on the band. I guess this is part of the reason we hear so many QSOs that are not zero beat. We used to know how to do that very well with separate transmitters and receivers, but in these days of transceivers, I think we have lost that ability - it seems to me that if we can hear a signal within our passband, that we should just transmit and expect to be answered - with no need to zero-beat. Sorry, but it just does not work that way - the other station may have narrow filters on and may not hear us. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 5:13 PM, The Smiths wrote: Wow Don, you really really missed his point. He's trying to say that the Pitch control turns on a tone generator while you're setting it. He's asking that when you push the button that sets the pitch freq. that the tone isn't generated.. That way he can hear the person he's talking to while adjusting the freq. of his IF's center pass band area. Plenty of us wish we had this ability.. There are MANY times when I feel like I want to adjust the tone of the persons signal without moving it away from the IF center, and then having to chase after it with the shift knob.. His idea would do exactly that. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:50:51 -0400 From: w3...@embarqmail.com To: drew...@verizon.net CC: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Drew, ?HUH? The pitch function that you say you want - change the pitch of a received signal - already exists, just turn the VFO knob, it will change the pitch of the signals which are being received. Normally one would want to tune the desired signal to the pitch which matches the sidetone, not the other way around. Just tap the SPOT button to zero-beat, in fact the K3 can do that automatically (within a limited range). Things that are changed by the PITCH control are the pitch of the sidetone you listen to during transmission, the frequency offset used for transmission and the CWT center frequency as well as the position of the center of the CW passband - it does not change the pitch of signals being received. Can you be more specific about what you want. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/26/2010 9:37 AM, drewko wrote: Paul, I would be very happy to just have a live PITCH control, as has been requested a number
[Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Great! Thanks Wayne. 73 Stephen G4SJP On 25/10/2010 19:39, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Not ever having a radio with APF, I've had this nagging question since this thread began. Does the Pitch track the center frequency of the BPF? Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com Subject: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report To: Roy Morris w4...@carolina.rr.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:39 PM We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
It will in the K3 case. If you have SHIFT centered, the APF filter will be at your sidetone pitch. So in most cases you won't even need to do a SHIFT; just turn APF on using a full counterclockwise setting of the WIDTH control. SHIFT can be used if you want to tune in a station that is slightly off your sidetone pitch. Wayne On Oct 25, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Not ever having a radio with APF, I've had this nagging question since this thread began. Does the Pitch track the center frequency of the BPF? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Nice! / Jim SM2EKM -- On 2010-10-25 20:39, Wayne Burdick wrote: We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Not on the FT-1000D, the APF has an adjustable freq knob, I find that I have it set 99 percent of the time the same pitch as the side tone, so not sure that it needs to be adjustable. Seems if it tracked the side tone freq that may be sufficient. Problem is that APF should not be limited to use on extreme narrow filter widths, many times there is no need to narrow the filter width as there is no adjacent QRM on the weak signal. The background noise on wider widths is easier to copy through many times than the different pitch background noise on narrow width. Unless you have used it, it is hard to comprehend what it is perhaps, but as many have posted, when working properly it makes copy possible of signals in the noise that is not possible without. Merv K9FD Not ever having a radio with APF, I've had this nagging question since this thread began. Does the Pitch track the center frequency of the BPF? Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdickn...@elecraft.com wrote: From: Wayne Burdickn...@elecraft.com Subject: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report To: Roy Morrisw4...@carolina.rr.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:39 PM We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wayne, 1) Outside the 30 Hz APF peak what is the background DSP bandwidth and can that be adjusted? 2) how does one prevent activation of a narrow CW filter (e.g., 200 Hz) and excessively narrow DSP filtering when activating APF? Remember, the desired behavior is primarily to peak the desired signal while reducing the background bandwidth is a secondary concern. 3) How does one move the APF peak (as in the case of the old FT-1000D where the peak was tunable over most of the audio range0? Rather that lose ability to specify basic DSP (and IF) bandwidth when activating APF, I would suggest overloading the notch control- particularly since auto notch (tap) does not function in CW - to activate APF. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 10/25/2010 2:39 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Joe, We're still experimenting with both the UI and the underlying filter function. I jumped the gun a bit in my proposed use of the WIDTH control to activate APF, and we're looking at other ways to do that so that the width can still be set independently. One possibility is to overload the DUAL PB control (say, a long hold of DUAL PB turns on APF, or the DUAL PB control has three settings). When APF is selected, the SHIFT control could adjust the APF center frequency, leaving the rig's normal passband unshifted. More later-- Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
HI Wayne For additional commands, you can still use CAT commands and each user choose how he uses the macros functions and reallocates each button... At least, this way, you are not limited in the number of functions. Yes, probably the XFIL/Dual PB is a good candidate for APF. Now the logic is up to you ! 73, Laurent -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/APF-For-K3-tp5671688p5672321.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
If you do it this way, how would you use it inside the 400 Hz roofing filter, where you wanted it to diminish somewhat toward the skirts of the roofer and then dive down. There would be no way of having this happen inside a given roofing filter other than the narrowest as the roofer is implied by the width setting. Would not be of any use at all on a running frequency. This only works as peak shaped audio to further narrow the very narrowest DSP selectivity. Personally I've never been disappointed by the 50 Hz, which is the cleanest narrow I've ever had in a RX. Not at all what I had in mind. With 400 Hz bandwidth and 500 Hz center, the passband INSIDE the roofer skirts is peaked at 500, loses about 10 db going down to 300 and up to 700, and at 300 and 700 does the normal roofer/DSP skirt sharp dive. This allows me to HEAR the off-freq caller, and either shift or RIT to center him, without the noise burden of a flat 400 Hz. Using the NR for this in a contest masks or loses really weak signals. Not yet discovered a setting that doesn't take away more than it gives. Never use NR on CW at NY4A on our K3's. Lose the whisper contacts just in the noise, any NR setting. Wouldn't even know they were there. Perhaps for this need a special NR setting that only shapes the audio without any cancellation at the noise level and several degrees of slope off? This is what I always meant by APF. Just my .02 73, Guy. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wayne, I like the idea of engaging APF independent of DSP or roofing bandwidth. There are times on an open band where APF can be effective without the need to mitigate interference through the use of roofing filters, thereby minimizing through-loss. A long press of Dual PB or use of 'Notch' in CW as W4TV points out seem like reasonable methods to engage the APF feature. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com To: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Joe, We're still experimenting with both the UI and the underlying filter function. I jumped the gun a bit in my proposed use of the WIDTH control to activate APF, and we're looking at other ways to do that so that the width can still be set independently. One possibility is to overload the DUAL PB control (say, a long hold of DUAL PB turns on APF, or the DUAL PB control has three settings). When APF is selected, the SHIFT control could adjust the APF center frequency, leaving the rig's normal passband unshifted. More later-- Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Anyone that has ever used the FT-1000 or the the FT-2000 knows exactly what the APF (or Contour setting as they call it) can do. It's an AMAZING tool to have in your tool box. With the FT-2000 you could choose whether you were going to Peak or Dip at the Contour freq. Furthermore, You could keep your filters set to ANY width you wanted to, and simultaneously Dip or Peak within the Contour / APF area. If you need any ideas on how this function should work than just refer to an FT-2000 or perhaps even an FT-5000 rig. It's very plain simple and clear. Which button it's put on is pretty much a who cares, so long as it works. As for the NR, I use that ALL the time, and I find that in my QTH it's a MUST have. There's FAR too much noise where I live, and with a constant S3 to S5 noise floor on 30 meters I rely HEAVILY on the NR to help me make things work out. The NB works well for me too, but the NR is far more important. I can only wish that I were one of you guys that lives where you have a perfect S1 noise floor and don't need your NR to work. I've not once missed a weak signal using my NR by the way, because I know how to use it in conjunction with the RF gain and proper (for me) AGC settings. Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:01:14 -0400 From: olin...@bellsouth.net To: n...@elecraft.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; w4...@carolina.rr.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report If you do it this way, how would you use it inside the 400 Hz roofing filter, where you wanted it to diminish somewhat toward the skirts of the roofer and then dive down. There would be no way of having this happen inside a given roofing filter other than the narrowest as the roofer is implied by the width setting. Would not be of any use at all on a running frequency. This only works as peak shaped audio to further narrow the very narrowest DSP selectivity. Personally I've never been disappointed by the 50 Hz, which is the cleanest narrow I've ever had in a RX. Not at all what I had in mind. With 400 Hz bandwidth and 500 Hz center, the passband INSIDE the roofer skirts is peaked at 500, loses about 10 db going down to 300 and up to 700, and at 300 and 700 does the normal roofer/DSP skirt sharp dive. This allows me to HEAR the off-freq caller, and either shift or RIT to center him, without the noise burden of a flat 400 Hz. Using the NR for this in a contest masks or loses really weak signals. Not yet discovered a setting that doesn't take away more than it gives. Never use NR on CW at NY4A on our K3's. Lose the whisper contacts just in the noise, any NR setting. Wouldn't even know they were there. Perhaps for this need a special NR setting that only shapes the audio without any cancellation at the noise level and several degrees of slope off? This is what I always meant by APF. Just my .02 73, Guy. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: We might have a field-test revision of K3 code that includes APF sometime this week. In this test version, APF is turned on by rotating the WIDTH control counterclockwise past the 50-Hz setting (BW 0.05) to the 30-Hz APF setting (APF 0.03). This eliminates the need for a menu entry or a new switch function. A new DSP graphic pattern shows that APF is in effect. SHIFT can be used, with either 10- or 50-Hz steps. The APF filter is an IIR (infinite impulse response) DSP filter that accurately emulates the equivalent analog circuitry. There's a slight ring to the filter, as expected. Gain is also increased when APF is turned on, compensating for the loss of overall signal+noise that occurs at this very narrow bandwidth. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
OK. Next question; can I assume then that the TX and frequency readout follow? --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: It will in the K3 case. If you have SHIFT centered, the APF filter will be at your sidetone pitch. So in most cases you won't even need to do a SHIFT; just turn APF on using a full counterclockwise setting of the WIDTH control. SHIFT can be used if you want to tune in a station that is slightly off your sidetone pitch. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
What does APX have to do with TX or the readout? This is a Receive feature whereby it PEAKS a particular freq. in CW mode. The Shift number should read out JUST as it does now.. It would only effect the position of the APF location as you move it. This is my understanding. Wayne, Although that sounds like a cleaver idea, sometimes you want to keep the shift off freq. from your center pitch, but still peak someone in. This can help reduce noise that is in your pitch Band pass, but alow you to de-tune the noise around it... This presents a problem for your idea. It means that there would have to be a separate knob for the Shift and the APF location. Or at least this is how it should be. Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:47:42 -0700 From: n...@yahoo.com To: n...@elecraft.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report OK. Next question; can I assume then that the TX and frequency readout follow? --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: It will in the K3 case. If you have SHIFT centered, the APF filter will be at your sidetone pitch. So in most cases you won't even need to do a SHIFT; just turn APF on using a full counterclockwise setting of the WIDTH control. SHIFT can be used if you want to tune in a station that is slightly off your sidetone pitch. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wes, The TX and VFO frequencies won't behave any differently with APF turned on, if that's what you're asking. They'll still be corrected for your sidetone pitch, as always. APF will behave like a tunable narrow filter superimposed on the normal passband. Its initial frequency would match the sidetone pitch, but you'll be able to move it around using the shift control. We're still playing with it. Wayne On Oct 25, 2010, at 5:47 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: OK. Next question; can I assume then that the TX and frequency readout follow? --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: It will in the K3 case. If you have SHIFT centered, the APF filter will be at your sidetone pitch. So in most cases you won't even need to do a SHIFT; just turn APF on using a full counterclockwise setting of the WIDTH control. SHIFT can be used if you want to tune in a station that is slightly off your sidetone pitch. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
I understand completely what a BPF filter does, tunable or otherwise. You forget that this is a transceiver, not a standalone receiver. If, as I believe Wayne indicated, the Pitch (NOT Shift) is going to follow the peak frequency of the filter (as it should IMHO) then the transmitter better follow along if you want to answer a guy on his RX frequency. If the transmitter is left behind, then if your nominal pitch is 500 Hz, then if you tune, for example, to a signal with a 700 Hz pitch, you're essentially operating split with a 200 Hz offset. The frequency readout indicates the zero beat frequency, as can be seen by switching modes from CW to SSB. The readout will be different between the two modes by the pitch frequency. If I'm off-base here and the APF can be tuned to other than the nominal pitch frequency (for reasons that totally escape me) then you will be operating split. Bad form these days. Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, The Smiths notforc...@hotmail.com wrote: What does APX have to do with TX or the readout? This is a Receive feature whereby it PEAKS a particular freq. in CW mode. The Shift number should read out JUST as it does now.. It would only effect the position of the APF location as you move it. This is my understanding. Wayne, Although that sounds like a cleaver idea, sometimes you want to keep the shift off freq. from your center pitch, but still peak someone in. This can help reduce noise that is in your pitch Band pass, but alow you to de-tune the noise around it... This presents a problem for your idea. It means that there would have to be a separate knob for the Shift and the APF location. Or at least this is how it should be. Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:47:42 -0700 From: n...@yahoo.com To: n...@elecraft.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report OK. Next question; can I assume then that the TX and frequency readout follow? --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: It will in the K3 case. If you have SHIFT centered, the APF filter will be at your sidetone pitch. So in most cases you won't even need to do a SHIFT; just turn APF on using a full counterclockwise setting of the WIDTH control. SHIFT can be used if you want to tune in a station that is slightly off your sidetone pitch. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: Wes, The TX and VFO frequencies won't behave any differently with APF turned on, if that's what you're asking. They'll still be corrected for your sidetone pitch, as always. APF will behave like a tunable narrow filter superimposed on the normal passband. Its initial frequency would match the sidetone pitch, but you'll be able to move it around using the shift control. We're still playing with it. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wes, I agree with you - leave the pitch at the sidetone pitch and use the VFO to tune the desired station to that pitch is the best solution. However some operators do it differently. There are many adherents of RIT and XIT. I understand their use for stations that are 'running', but for normal QSOs it is not required on a transceiver that can shift transmit frequency easily with the VFO knob. Zero-beat the station to be in QSO with and take up less bandspace. If everyone operated like that, there should be no need to change the pitch of the peaking point - it would be whatever the sidetone pitch is set to. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/25/2010 9:38 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: I understand completely what a BPF filter does, tunable or otherwise. You forget that this is a transceiver, not a standalone receiver. If, as I believe Wayne indicated, the Pitch (NOT Shift) is going to follow the peak frequency of the filter (as it should IMHO) then the transmitter better follow along if you want to answer a guy on his RX frequency. If the transmitter is left behind, then if your nominal pitch is 500 Hz, then if you tune, for example, to a signal with a 700 Hz pitch, you're essentially operating split with a 200 Hz offset. The frequency readout indicates the zero beat frequency, as can be seen by switching modes from CW to SSB. The readout will be different between the two modes by the pitch frequency. If I'm off-base here and the APF can be tuned to other than the nominal pitch frequency (for reasons that totally escape me) then you will be operating split. Bad form these days. Wes __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
For the same reason that they want to use SHIFT: because sometimes stations call you off-frequency. Wayne On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: Wes, The TX and VFO frequencies won't behave any differently with APF turned on, if that's what you're asking. They'll still be corrected for your sidetone pitch, as always. APF will behave like a tunable narrow filter superimposed on the normal passband. Its initial frequency would match the sidetone pitch, but you'll be able to move it around using the shift control. We're still playing with it. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Don, Finally someone who understands how transceivers work! I use XIT and RIT all of the time in lieu of the split function. But that's on purpose and I understand the ramifications. Thanks, Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report To: Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com Cc: Wayne Berdock n...@elecraft.com, The Smiths notforc...@hotmail.com, Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 7:57 PM Wes, I agree with you - leave the pitch at the sidetone pitch and use the VFO to tune the desired station to that pitch is the best solution. However some operators do it differently. There are many adherents of RIT and XIT. I understand their use for stations that are 'running', but for normal QSOs it is not required on a transceiver that can shift transmit frequency easily with the VFO knob. Zero-beat the station to be in QSO with and take up less bandspace. If everyone operated like that, there should be no need to change the pitch of the peaking point - it would be whatever the sidetone pitch is set to. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/25/2010 9:38 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: I understand completely what a BPF filter does, tunable or otherwise. You forget that this is a transceiver, not a standalone receiver. If, as I believe Wayne indicated, the Pitch (NOT Shift) is going to follow the peak frequency of the filter (as it should IMHO) then the transmitter better follow along if you want to answer a guy on his RX frequency. If the transmitter is left behind, then if your nominal pitch is 500 Hz, then if you tune, for example, to a signal with a 700 Hz pitch, you're essentially operating split with a 200 Hz offset. The frequency readout indicates the zero beat frequency, as can be seen by switching modes from CW to SSB. The readout will be different between the two modes by the pitch frequency. If I'm off-base here and the APF can be tuned to other than the nominal pitch frequency (for reasons that totally escape me) then you will be operating split. Bad form these days. Wes __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
There's a button labeled RIT and an associated knob especially for that purpose. --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: For the same reason that they want to use SHIFT: because sometimes stations call you off-frequency. Wayne On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wes, I think that you're missing the point of what the shift knob does.. Yes, you can use the RIT to tune someone in but the Shift shifts your IF without moving your Transmit or Receive VFO position. This isn't about a tone, this is about the IF passband. As for the need for separate IF shift and APF tuning, If I can answer for my self... I would want it to be separate to control noise, if it works anything like the Yaesu contour filter (when in peak mode) than it's very nice to be able to peak signals that aren't always exactly in the center of your IF passband. Not only does the Yaesu peak the center of the IF (pitch freq.) but it would also attenuate the noise floor around it. Therefore if I have noise in the center of the IF, and I want to shift away, I may still wish to move the peak to suppress the QRM along with it. Sometimes you just have to try something to understand it. Being able to take the dial and swing it around with the APF on and hear what peaks and what suppresses will let you determine how you want to separate the IF pass band from the APF. It's not unlike how the manual Notch filter works. As you swing it around you can hear how it suppresses some signals below or above your IF passband. Wayne, I would like to make my suggestion for where to place these controls. If it were up to me (with out giving it any more thought than I already have) I would like to see the switch to turn the APF on and off as a HOLD on the AFX button. If I'm not mistaken this button is un-used when in CW and SSB mode. Therefore if you hold the AFX button down in CW it could activate the effect of the APF... As for moving it's position, I was thinking that unless it's going to be used in SSB mode, you could place the centering position on the Comp/PWR knob. Put it in the place of COMP. Even if someone wanted to use it for SSB mode they probably already have their Compressor set up as they use it for their mic. I don't know that most people use their COMP control every time they get on SSB. I would think you set it up for that particular mic and leave it. This would make dual use of the Comp knob while still keeping the Width and Shift knobs operate as they already do. If i t's possible to change the color of the LED I would switch it to Orange or blink when in the APF mode as an indicator that it's not working the COMP. Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:17:16 -0700 From: n...@yahoo.com To: n...@elecraft.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report There's a button labeled RIT and an associated knob especially for that purpose. --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: For the same reason that they want to use SHIFT: because sometimes stations call you off-frequency. Wayne On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
There's a button labeled RIT and an associated knob especially for that purpose. Wes, Here's an example of using APF in conjunction with RIT. I normally leave my CW offset at 650 Hz. Some of my CW operating is very weak signal DX on the low bands. When copying extremely weak DX in the midst of static crashes, I need to temporarily shift pitch to less than 400 Hz. Some ops, including W4ZV, have noted that weak CW copy can improve when low pitch is used. I also don't want to tamper with my normal CW offset if I don't need to. By engaging in RIT, I would like to temporally dip the incoming pitch, leave my CW offset alone where I want it 95% of the time, and then adjust the frequency of the APF to match/peak the incoming pitch selected by RIT. If I want to experiment with different pitch settings based on band conditions, I also want the ability for the APF peak to track the pitch I've selected on RIT. That requires a tunable APF. This is precisely what the FT-1000/D gave its users. Of course, the greater the departure of the RIT pitch from the offset may require a wider DSP filter setting and/or roofing filter. But under these weak band conditions, wide DSP and roofing filters are just fine when band activity and adjacent interference is low or moderate. When I'm working early morning grayline DX on 80m or 40m, I rarely encounter strong adjacent stations since conditions are long and stateside is not heard much of the time. Because of this, my overall Rx bandwidth is generally set to 2.8 kHz or greater. Even when weak DX is running split and listening up 2 kHz, there's ample separation to allow a filter settings wide enough to depart a few hundred Hz from the CW offset. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
Wes, If you are running on 160 or 80 in a contest and a weak signal calls you slightly off frequency, it's handy on the FT1000D to move the apf freq around to find him and enhance his signal. In theory you could do the same with the RIT, but it can be easier to move the apf, particularly if there is more than one weak signal. Maybe it's just personal preference, but I do like that feature. 73, andy, ae6y -- From: Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 6:50 PM To: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report Wayne, Understood, but why would anyone want to have a filter peaked at other than the nominal sidetone pitch? I realize people are asking for it, but it makes zero sense to me. Wes --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: Wes, The TX and VFO frequencies won't behave any differently with APF turned on, if that's what you're asking. They'll still be corrected for your sidetone pitch, as always. APF will behave like a tunable narrow filter superimposed on the normal passband. Its initial frequency would match the sidetone pitch, but you'll be able to move it around using the shift control. We're still playing with it. Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
