Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
Bird did make a 10 Watt slug a few years ago, but there must not have been many of them and the on line Bird seller had one at a very high price. Like two times the regular price. It sold immediately as I remember. I used a couple Birds attached with an N union and had a 25 in the rev and a 1K in the fwd with peak detector. It was a good setup. I generally don't even need a wattmeter, but set one up mostly as a project more than any other reason.. Chuck Hawley c-haw...@illinois.edu Amateur Radio, KE9UW aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on behalf of Joe Subich, W4TV [li...@subich.com] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 8:29 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations > When taking reflected power readings the slug should be 1/10 of the > forward slug value when testing a reasonably good antenna. So, a 100 > watt forward slug would require a 10 watt reverse slug for reasonable > accuracy. Unfortunately, the smallest HF slug Bird make is 25 Watts. That means any SWR less than 1.4:1 (2.8% reflected power) is suspect with a 100 W transmitter. It is a shame that Bird do not offer a 10 (or 5 W HF element) and the one reason I moved to the LP-100(A) several years ago. However, I would never think to take the LP-100(A) or microHAM SMΩRF out into the field. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 3/19/2018 8:10 PM, JOE wrote: > I spoke to someone at Bird (when they were really Bird) years ago and I > was told that the Bird wattmeter is accurate to ±5% of top scale. This > means that a 100 watt slug can be off ±5 watts _anywhere_ on the meter. > So, a transmitter emitting 50 watts out, using the Bird and a 100 watt > slug, can read between 45 and 55 watts. That's why he said it was > important to keep the reading in the top 1/3 (highest) end of the > meter. This is where the error is less. When taking reflected power > readings the slug should be 1/10 of the forward slug value when testing > a reasonably good antenna. So, a 100 watt forward slug would require a > 10 watt reverse slug for reasonable accuracy. > > I retired my Bird 43 and the vast assortment of slugs for a Telewave > Model 44A wattmeter and never looked back. The drawback to the 44A is > it is limited to 20-1000MHz. The Bird would be good for HF use. > > 73, Joe, K1ike > > Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:40:41 + >> Always bear in mind that their odd meters (30 uA) are very non-linear and >> measurements made using element ranges that fall in the bottom 1/3 or >> so of >> the scale are the most accurate. Overall, they claim to be accurate >> to +/- >> 20 percent of full scale. HORRIBLE in >> today's world! >> >> FWIW ... >> >> 73! >> >> K0PP > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
Wow! I never knew the bird was a DMM! You can put down the Bird43 all you want, but check nearly every professional radio shop and every prof tech's tool bag and likely you will find a Bird. They work well and are quite durable riding in pickups, helicopters, boats, snowcats, etc. I bought my first one in 1976 (and still using it). Now own three. Definitely more accurate RF power meters but the Bird survives. Professionals have 1/2 wavelength test cables to ensure accurate Reflected measurements in the field. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
I was speaking specifically of the "A" range slugs for 25 to 60 MHz which are available down to 5 W and usable in the higher HF freqs. I have a couple low power 1 & 2.5W slugs that cover very narrow VHF & UHF ranges that are handy for walkies. I always said I would never get into the "sub" hobby of Bird collecting, but I guess somewhere along I succumbed. 73,Charlie k3ICH -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 11:54 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations On 3/19/2018 8:47 PM, Charlie T wrote: > Low power 5W & 10W A slugs are available. Yes. I have some for VHF and UHF. I also bought the very nice LP100A from the estate of an SK. It came with only one sensor, so I sent it back to Larry for him to add a second one. It's permanently wired into my SO2R station. One of its many useful features is the ability to measure the complex Z at its output terminal. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to pin...@erols.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
On 3/19/2018 8:47 PM, Charlie T wrote: Low power 5W & 10W A slugs are available. Yes. I have some for VHF and UHF. I also bought the very nice LP100A from the estate of an SK. It came with only one sensor, so I sent it back to Larry for him to add a second one. It's permanently wired into my SO2R station. One of its many useful features is the ability to measure the complex Z at its output terminal. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
You can always use an A range Bird slug (25 to 60 MHz) on the upper end of the HF spectrum. It'll be accurate on 10 & 12 M and probably not too far off a little lower, but certainly not on 80 or 40 M. Low power 5W & 10W A slugs are available. 73 Charlie k3ICH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
When taking reflected power readings the slug should be 1/10 of the forward slug value when testing a reasonably good antenna. So, a 100 watt forward slug would require a 10 watt reverse slug for reasonable accuracy. Unfortunately, the smallest HF slug Bird make is 25 Watts. That means any SWR less than 1.4:1 (2.8% reflected power) is suspect with a 100 W transmitter. It is a shame that Bird do not offer a 10 (or 5 W HF element) and the one reason I moved to the LP-100(A) several years ago. However, I would never think to take the LP-100(A) or microHAM SMΩRF out into the field. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 3/19/2018 8:10 PM, JOE wrote: I spoke to someone at Bird (when they were really Bird) years ago and I was told that the Bird wattmeter is accurate to ±5% of top scale. This means that a 100 watt slug can be off ±5 watts _anywhere_ on the meter. So, a transmitter emitting 50 watts out, using the Bird and a 100 watt slug, can read between 45 and 55 watts. That's why he said it was important to keep the reading in the top 1/3 (highest) end of the meter. This is where the error is less. When taking reflected power readings the slug should be 1/10 of the forward slug value when testing a reasonably good antenna. So, a 100 watt forward slug would require a 10 watt reverse slug for reasonable accuracy. I retired my Bird 43 and the vast assortment of slugs for a Telewave Model 44A wattmeter and never looked back. The drawback to the 44A is it is limited to 20-1000MHz. The Bird would be good for HF use. 73, Joe, K1ike Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:40:41 + Always bear in mind that their odd meters (30 uA) are very non-linear and measurements made using element ranges that fall in the bottom 1/3 or so of the scale are the most accurate. Overall, they claim to be accurate to +/- 20 percent of full scale. HORRIBLE in today's world! FWIW ... 73! K0PP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
I spoke to someone at Bird (when they were really Bird) years ago and I was told that the Bird wattmeter is accurate to ±5% of top scale. This means that a 100 watt slug can be off ±5 watts _anywhere_ on the meter. So, a transmitter emitting 50 watts out, using the Bird and a 100 watt slug, can read between 45 and 55 watts. That's why he said it was important to keep the reading in the top 1/3 (highest) end of the meter. This is where the error is less. When taking reflected power readings the slug should be 1/10 of the forward slug value when testing a reasonably good antenna. So, a 100 watt forward slug would require a 10 watt reverse slug for reasonable accuracy. I retired my Bird 43 and the vast assortment of slugs for a Telewave Model 44A wattmeter and never looked back. The drawback to the 44A is it is limited to 20-1000MHz. The Bird would be good for HF use. 73, Joe, K1ike Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:40:41 + Always bear in mind that their odd meters (30 uA) are very non-linear and measurements made using element ranges that fall in the bottom 1/3 or so of the scale are the most accurate. Overall, they claim to be accurate to +/- 20 percent of full scale. HORRIBLE in today's world! FWIW ... 73! K0PP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
True RMS for a $20 on Amazon multimeter. Review here: https://youtu.be/xdGQEVdxmQQ Chip AE5KA On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 5:23 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > True RMS for $19.95? > > Chuck Hawley > c-haw...@illinois.edu > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] > on behalf of Dave Heil [k...@frontiernet.net] > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:30 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179? > > In the past, I had Fluke and Beckman meters and, in my days in > industrial electronic sales, I sold both of them. > > In recent years, I've become a fan of the Chinese-made copies at Harbor > Freight. They have the functions but not the price. At $19.99, I was > able to buy a couple of them--one for the shack and one for the barn. > You might give them a look before throwing money at the market leaders. > > 73, > > Dave K8MN > > > On 19-Mar-18 15:09, Dauer, Edward wrote: > > My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch > contacts intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will > give a reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions > > > > Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have > autoranging, all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, > frequency, and temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the > Fluke 179/EDA2) for just under $300. That’s about four times what the less > expensive brands go for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the > best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? > > > > Ted, KN1CBR > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to k...@frontiernet.net > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to lightdazz...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
True RMS for $19.95? Chuck Hawley c-haw...@illinois.edu Amateur Radio, KE9UW aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on behalf of Dave Heil [k...@frontiernet.net] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:30 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179? In the past, I had Fluke and Beckman meters and, in my days in industrial electronic sales, I sold both of them. In recent years, I've become a fan of the Chinese-made copies at Harbor Freight. They have the functions but not the price. At $19.99, I was able to buy a couple of them--one for the shack and one for the barn. You might give them a look before throwing money at the market leaders. 73, Dave K8MN On 19-Mar-18 15:09, Dauer, Edward wrote: > My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts > intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a > reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions > > Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, all > the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and > temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for > just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go > for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only > once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? > > Ted, KN1CBR > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to k...@frontiernet.net --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
I know, lets start a thread about whether test leads should be red (+) and black (-), or black (hot) and white (neutral) or maybe combine it all to Euro standards of wiring with a Blue & Brown leads?. THAT should keep everyone busy at least till next Christmas, or as long as another "which mike is best?" question would. 73, Charlie k3ICH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
I wish I could find a used / working 5H, or if they ever made one... a 2.5H for my QRP stuff. (I think I am up to 5 model 43s plus a few panel mounts. I suppose I got some sort of addiction) Bert - K4AR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of William Levy Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 3:47 PM To: hawley, charles j jr Cc: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations My use is as to check forward or reverse, really that my antennas are working. If I am running 500 watts out I put in a 500 watt element. If I have a 1500 watt amp I put in 2500w element. 100 watts here or there at 1500 watts doesn't matter. That the antenna is OK *really does matter!* I have not found anything that even comes close. My delight over 50 years of hamming is that Model 43s and their panel mounted equivalents are found on Ebay and at Hamfests and surplus venues so I pretty much have one on any serious amp I have. Bill N2Wl On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 3:39 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > Bird advertised and prints in the manual +/- 5% of full scale power. I > remember some digital meters ARRL tested a few years back that did not > do that well. Are your numbers something you experienced? > > Chuck KE9UW > c-haw...@illinois.edu > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Mar 19, 2018, at 1:41 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > As long as one keeps in mind that Bird's reputatiom for accuracy has > become > > a thing of the past. There are many more current products that > > surpass them. > > > > Always bear in mind that their odd meters (30 uA) are very > > non-linear and measurements made using element ranges that fall in > > the bottom 1/3 or so > of > > the scale are the most accurate. Overall, they claim to be accurate > > to > +/- > > 20 percent of full scale. HORRIBLE in today's world! > > > > FWIW ... > > > > 73! > > > > K0PP > > > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:09 William Levy wrote: > >> > >> A long time ago I was sitting with an old ham in his shack > >> discussing purchasing a new SWR meter. > >> I was going to buy some twenty buck job and he told me the following. > >> > >> "If you buy the 20 buck model, soon you will get the 30 buck and > >> then > the > >> 40 buck and on and on until you finally buy the Bird. > >> If you start with the Bird you won't need all those others. > >> > >> I took his advice and I bought the Bird. > >> > >> Buy the good stuff, as good as you can afford and stop worrying > >> about > the > >> price or the deal. > >> > >> N2WL > >> __ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this > >> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > >> kengk...@gmail.com > >> > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > > c-haw...@illinois.edu > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
Chuck, That is 5% of full scale with a recently calibrated slug. Another way to look at that percentage of full scale is to consider a 200 watt slug. The error can be as large as 10 watts *anywhere* on the scale. That is why I don't buy Bird wattmeters at hamfests unless it is cheap enough to send to a calibration lab. At least a digital wattmeter retains its accuracy as a percentage of the reading - a very different specification. Yes, +/- 20% is up to 40 watts error at 200 watts, at 10 watts, the error is only 2 watts. Many of the digital wattmeters like the Telepost LP100 can boast of 5% accuracy because they are calibrated with NIST tracable instruments. Elecraft does use the LP100 at many of the technician workbenches. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/19/2018 3:39 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Bird advertised and prints in the manual +/- 5% of full scale power. I remember some digital meters ARRL tested a few years back that did not do that well. Are your numbers something you experienced? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
My use is as to check forward or reverse, really that my antennas are working. If I am running 500 watts out I put in a 500 watt element. If I have a 1500 watt amp I put in 2500w element. 100 watts here or there at 1500 watts doesn't matter. That the antenna is OK *really does matter!* I have not found anything that even comes close. My delight over 50 years of hamming is that Model 43s and their panel mounted equivalents are found on Ebay and at Hamfests and surplus venues so I pretty much have one on any serious amp I have. Bill N2Wl On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 3:39 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > Bird advertised and prints in the manual +/- 5% of full scale power. I > remember some digital meters ARRL tested a few years back that did not do > that well. Are your numbers something you experienced? > > Chuck KE9UW > c-haw...@illinois.edu > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Mar 19, 2018, at 1:41 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > As long as one keeps in mind that Bird's reputatiom for accuracy has > become > > a thing of the past. There are many more current products that surpass > > them. > > > > Always bear in mind that their odd meters (30 uA) are very non-linear and > > measurements made using element ranges that fall in the bottom 1/3 or so > of > > the scale are the most accurate. Overall, they claim to be accurate to > +/- > > 20 percent of full scale. HORRIBLE in > > today's world! > > > > FWIW ... > > > > 73! > > > > K0PP > > > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:09 William Levy wrote: > >> > >> A long time ago I was sitting with an old ham in his shack discussing > >> purchasing a new SWR meter. > >> I was going to buy some twenty buck job and he told me the following. > >> > >> "If you buy the 20 buck model, soon you will get the 30 buck and then > the > >> 40 buck and on and on until you finally buy the Bird. > >> If you start with the Bird you won't need all those others. > >> > >> I took his advice and I bought the Bird. > >> > >> Buy the good stuff, as good as you can afford and stop worrying about > the > >> price or the deal. > >> > >> N2WL > >> __ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> Message delivered to kengk...@gmail.com > >> > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
Bird advertised and prints in the manual +/- 5% of full scale power. I remember some digital meters ARRL tested a few years back that did not do that well. Are your numbers something you experienced? Chuck KE9UW c-haw...@illinois.edu Sent from my iPad > On Mar 19, 2018, at 1:41 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote: > > Bill, > > As long as one keeps in mind that Bird's reputatiom for accuracy has become > a thing of the past. There are many more current products that surpass > them. > > Always bear in mind that their odd meters (30 uA) are very non-linear and > measurements made using element ranges that fall in the bottom 1/3 or so of > the scale are the most accurate. Overall, they claim to be accurate to +/- > 20 percent of full scale. HORRIBLE in > today's world! > > FWIW ... > > 73! > > K0PP > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:09 William Levy wrote: >> >> A long time ago I was sitting with an old ham in his shack discussing >> purchasing a new SWR meter. >> I was going to buy some twenty buck job and he told me the following. >> >> "If you buy the 20 buck model, soon you will get the 30 buck and then the >> 40 buck and on and on until you finally buy the Bird. >> If you start with the Bird you won't need all those others. >> >> I took his advice and I bought the Bird. >> >> Buy the good stuff, as good as you can afford and stop worrying about the >> price or the deal. >> >> N2WL >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to kengk...@gmail.com >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
I bought a Fluke-73 in 1984 and the dang thing took a lot of hits and kept on working. In final years cracked case was held together with electric tape until one day it died. I used is as professional technician all those years and six years into retirement. So...I bought another Fluke (on Amazon) and it was shipped from China (instruction book in chinese). But the labels are all in english. Spent $109 got model 17B auto-ranging mv, V, ua, ma, A, ohms, diode test, continuity beeper, capacitance tester, AC and DC plus temperature with probe. Maz/min, Hold, Relative keys. Illuminated screen on/off. Came with rubber shock case. It will be in my will as it will probably outlast me. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
I’ve been using a Fluke 87 that I bought at the Ft. Wayne hamfest about 20 years ago. The seller had dozens of them in a big pile. It was $100 which seemed like a lot for a used meter, condition somewhat unknown, but I’ve never regretted it. Chuck KE9UW c-haw...@illinois.edu Sent from my iPad > On Mar 19, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > >> But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only >> once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? > I have a Fluke 85 that I got 30 years or more ago and have never had a > moment's problem/regret. In that time, I replaced many "off brand" > instruments that simply did not hold up for technicians in the shops I > supervised. While I'm sure there may be other good products out there, > unless the requirements call for some special feature not otherwise > available, I would still stick with the Fluke. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > >> On 3/19/2018 11:09 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote: >> My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts >> intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a >> reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions >> Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, >> all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and >> temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for >> just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go >> for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only >> once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? >> Ted, KN1CBR >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to li...@subich.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
Bill, As long as one keeps in mind that Bird's reputatiom for accuracy has become a thing of the past. There are many more current products that surpass them. Always bear in mind that their odd meters (30 uA) are very non-linear and measurements made using element ranges that fall in the bottom 1/3 or so of the scale are the most accurate. Overall, they claim to be accurate to +/- 20 percent of full scale. HORRIBLE in today's world! FWIW ... 73! K0PP On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:09 William Levy wrote: > A long time ago I was sitting with an old ham in his shack discussing > purchasing a new SWR meter. > I was going to buy some twenty buck job and he told me the following. > > "If you buy the 20 buck model, soon you will get the 30 buck and then the > 40 buck and on and on until you finally buy the Bird. > If you start with the Bird you won't need all those others. > > I took his advice and I bought the Bird. > > Buy the good stuff, as good as you can afford and stop worrying about the > price or the deal. > > N2WL > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to kengk...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
If we are to be consistent and follow advice from countless (delighted) Elecraft owners on this list, any buyer of test equipment like the DMM in question is going to ensure that the company will be easy to contact and work with and stand behind its product when necessary. Yes, many times I've thrown away twenty dollars here and there on cheap stuff, but I'm getting mighty tired of doing so. Al W6LX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? I have a Fluke 85 that I got 30 years or more ago and have never had a moment's problem/regret. In that time, I replaced many "off brand" instruments that simply did not hold up for technicians in the shops I supervised. While I'm sure there may be other good products out there, unless the requirements call for some special feature not otherwise available, I would still stick with the Fluke. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 3/19/2018 11:09 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote: My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? Ted, KN1CBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
When I was in aerospace we used to say, "If it works, it's a Fluke." On 3/19/2018 10:49 AM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: Ted As a 32 year metrology lab supervisor, we used MANY Fluke DMM models. I can’t speak highly enough of this manufacturer. Their actual accuracy is usually much better than the published specs. And are very rugged. I would have no reservations in purchasing one. Harlan K4HES __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM recommendations
A long time ago I was sitting with an old ham in his shack discussing purchasing a new SWR meter. I was going to buy some twenty buck job and he told me the following. "If you buy the 20 buck model, soon you will get the 30 buck and then the 40 buck and on and on until you finally buy the Bird. If you start with the Bird you won't need all those others. I took his advice and I bought the Bird. Buy the good stuff, as good as you can afford and stop worrying about the price or the deal. N2WL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
Ted As a 32 year metrology lab supervisor, we used MANY Fluke DMM models. I can’t speak highly enough of this manufacturer. Their actual accuracy is usually much better than the published specs. And are very rugged. I would have no reservations in purchasing one. Harlan K4HES Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 19, 2018, at 11:09 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote: > > > My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts > intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a > reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions > > Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, all > the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and > temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for > just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go > for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only > once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? > > Ted, KN1CBR > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to hsherr...@reagan.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
I have HB's top-of-the line autoranger for less than $40 and the next one down which is not autoranging for less than $25. One for the electronic shop and one for the garage. I build a LOT of electronic stuff and find them completely adequate for hobby level work. I only use AC/DC volts, amps, milliamps and resistance. I don't use any of the other functions. I have better, specialized tools to take care of the rest. BTW, you have to CAREFULLY research Fluke features. They make so many different models with feature sets aimed at particular professions. There are some that look great for ham use, but when you dig into the features they don't even have a milliamp range! No matter what meter you use, I don't think you should ever go in for a measurement unless you have already estimated or calculated what you expect to see. A weird reading could be caused by a circuit problem, test equipment failure or a lack of understanding of the circuit operation. Making a stab at it on paper first, makes it a lot easier to eliminate two of those. Eric KE6US On 3/19/2018 9:06 AM, David Fleming via Elecraft wrote: +1 for the inexpensive offerings from Harbor Freight. I have several of these cheap knock offs. They’re certainly not professional grade instruments, but they are more than adequate for hobbiest level work. I use a small CEN-TECH model for quick voltage, resistance and current measurents. It works well and was actually FREE with a coupon. The readings are very close to my trusty, much more expensive, Fluke 79. David, W4SMT On Monday, March 19, 2018, 11:33 AM, Dave Heil wrote: In the past, I had Fluke and Beckman meters and, in my days in industrial electronic sales, I sold both of them. In recent years, I've become a fan of the Chinese-made copies at Harbor Freight. They have the functions but not the price. At $19.99, I was able to buy a couple of them--one for the shack and one for the barn. You might give them a look before throwing money at the market leaders. 73, Dave K8MN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to eric.c...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
If looking for something more "name brand", the Greenlee DM-510A is made by Brymen. I have this and have been very happy with it. Also on Amazon. 73 Chip AE5KA On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote: > > My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch > contacts intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will > give a reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions > > Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, > all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, > and temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke > 179/EDA2) for just under $300. That’s about four times what the less > expensive brands go for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the > best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? > > Ted, KN1CBR > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to lightdazz...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
For a good solid multimeter whose safety and features were spec'ed by Dave Jones of EEVBLOG fame, do a search on Amazon for EEVblog Brymen BM235 Multimeter That one will set you back $125, but it has just about all of what you need. For a bit less than $60, the UNI-T UT61E is a favorite. And for only about $20, look for the AN8008 or AN8009. They are sold under various names, and the two differ slightly in features, but for a compact, quicky DMM you won't be using on anything scarier than house wiring mains, they should fit the bill. You'll want to look carefully at all the features, but you won't go wrong with the BM235. I have a UT61E and an AN8008, and they offer good value. I have another Brymen meter similar to the BM235, and it is a very high quality unit. They OEM for Greenlee and others, BTW. If you are really picky about your features and specs, take a look at this: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/ 73 Chip Stratton AE5KA On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote: > > My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch > contacts intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will > give a reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions > > Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, > all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, > and temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke > 179/EDA2) for just under $300. That’s about four times what the less > expensive brands go for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the > best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? > > Ted, KN1CBR > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to lightdazz...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
There are certainly some decent cheap DMM's out there, but also some terrible. I had one (CH-something) that was quite accurate when the batteries was new, but when the battery voltage got lower, it showed >25% too much. It apparently used the battery voltage as voltage reference... Combined with no low-battery indication it was quite useless. So if you need to trust the readings from the DMM, get one that has good reputation (doesn't need to be Fluke). 73 de Johan SM0XHJ On Monday, 19 March 2018 17:06:48 CET David Fleming via Elecraft wrote: > +1 for the inexpensive offerings from Harbor Freight. I have several of > these cheap knock offs. They’re certainly not professional grade > instruments, but they are more than adequate for hobbiest level work. I use > a small CEN-TECH model for quick voltage, resistance and current > measurents. It works well and was actually FREE with a coupon. The > readings are very close to my trusty, much more expensive, Fluke 79. > David, W4SMT > > On Monday, March 19, 2018, 11:33 AM, Dave Heil wrote: > > In the past, I had Fluke and Beckman meters and, in my days in > industrial electronic sales, I sold both of them. > > In recent years, I've become a fan of the Chinese-made copies at Harbor > Freight. They have the functions but not the price. At $19.99, I was > able to buy a couple of them--one for the shack and one for the barn. > You might give them a look before throwing money at the market leaders. > > 73, > > Dave K8MN > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to jo...@e-626.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
+1 for the inexpensive offerings from Harbor Freight. I have several of these cheap knock offs. They’re certainly not professional grade instruments, but they are more than adequate for hobbiest level work. I use a small CEN-TECH model for quick voltage, resistance and current measurents. It works well and was actually FREE with a coupon. The readings are very close to my trusty, much more expensive, Fluke 79. David, W4SMT On Monday, March 19, 2018, 11:33 AM, Dave Heil wrote: In the past, I had Fluke and Beckman meters and, in my days in industrial electronic sales, I sold both of them. In recent years, I've become a fan of the Chinese-made copies at Harbor Freight. They have the functions but not the price. At $19.99, I was able to buy a couple of them--one for the shack and one for the barn. You might give them a look before throwing money at the market leaders. 73, Dave K8MN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
I own three DMMs and you can never have enough. Well, maybe you can. I use them because I am forever measuring multiple points in a circuit simultaneously. Not for ham radio but rather for hobby play with digital circuits. My Fluke 179 is clearly the best of the lot and the auto-ranging feature is very nice. Many other features though I have not used. I also own a Triplett 9007 which is my second best and a BK Survivor model 2860A. I also have a Fluke clamp style current meter which I have never used. Bought it at a charity auction with a $20 bid and I think most others didn't even know what it was. I also have a Triplett analog VOM and two other cheaper analog VOM type meters. If you want to spend money, clearly by the Fluke but apart from auto-ranging (and there are probably other meters with that capability) I don't think it is that much more useful then my Triplett or my BK which are cheaper but not dirt cheap. Amazon has the Triplett for under $60. 73, phil, K7PEH > On Mar 19, 2018, at 8:09 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote: > > > My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts > intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a > reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions > > Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, all > the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and > temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for > just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go > for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only > once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? > > Ted, KN1CBR > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to phys...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
It should be a simple matter to pull it apart and clean the contacts with De-Oxit. That said, the auto ranging, hand-held digital Chicom meters on ebay for under $25 are decent. The non-auto-ranging types are under $10. Or, you can get a free one at Harbor Freight. I bought one of the HF top-of-the-line hand-held meters which measures everything you could ever want, temperature, sound pressure, light intensity, capacitors etc., for under $50 and beat the krapp out of it. It still works. The internal fuse has saved it on numerous "Oh shXX" happenings. I have a lab standard (traceable) meter calibrator for Voltage that is good to 3 decimal places past zero, and my fancy Fluke is no more accurate than these cheap throw-away's. MCM, now Newark, has the Tenma line that are also good meters. I also use a few of those, bench types on the test bench. 73, Charlie k3ICH -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Dauer, Edward Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 11:10 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179? My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? Ted, KN1CBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to pin...@erols.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
In the past, I had Fluke and Beckman meters and, in my days in industrial electronic sales, I sold both of them. In recent years, I've become a fan of the Chinese-made copies at Harbor Freight. They have the functions but not the price. At $19.99, I was able to buy a couple of them--one for the shack and one for the barn. You might give them a look before throwing money at the market leaders. 73, Dave K8MN On 19-Mar-18 15:09, Dauer, Edward wrote: My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? Ted, KN1CBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k...@frontiernet.net --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] DMM Recommendations -- Fluke 179?
My inexpensive DMM is becoming troublesome – internal rotary switch contacts intermittent, requiring wriggling back and forth before it will give a reading on some ranges. And it has limited functions Some research suggested the Fluke 179. I would like to have autoranging, all the usual DMM functions, plus capacitance, diode testing, frequency, and temperature. Amazon sells it with an accessory kit (the Fluke 179/EDA2) for just under $300. That’s about four times what the less expensive brands go for. But on the theory that it’s better to buy the best first and cry only once, is the Fluke 179 worth the price? Ted, KN1CBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
I have a fluke 112 and I love it and hate it the auto ranging is great but the auto shut off is a pain in the *** well you get the point but I would recommend the fluke 112 to anyone with that warning. - Original Message - From: "R. Kevin Stover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations > I just Got a B+K Precision model 2707A from Kiesub Electronic Supply for > $91 and change. > It isn't autoranging like the Fluke but I figure I can turn a dial. > You may be able to get it a little cheaper at Mouser but I ordered mine > at the same time I ordered my Hakko 936. > K2/100 with all the goodies arrives Wednesday. > > Good Luck. > > -- > R. Kevin Stover, ACØH > > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
Geoff, I googled on "kaito meters" and found some references. The one I like in general is: http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/. The VC97 page is: http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/vc97.htm. I plan on picking up one myself. -rick, K7LOG -Original Message- ... Tried Googling "kaitometers" but shows nothing. Would like to look to see what they have. Do you have the link? tks geoffk6tfz ___ Elecraft mailing list ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
In a message dated 1/10/2005 7:02:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just bought a VC97 autoranging DMM with a counter to 30 mhz. for 29.95 from" kaitometers" and they have abunch more you can drool over...John KF7OM Tried Googling "kaitometers" but shows nothing. Would like to look to see what they have. Do you have the link? tks geoffk6tfz ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
I just bought a VC97 autoranging DMM with a counter to 30 mhz. for 29.95 from" kaitometers" and they have abunch more you can drool over...John KF7OM - Original Message - From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 1:22 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations Chuck, KI4DGH, wrote: I would like to see some recommendations for a Digital Multimeter. The Fluke 187 is a little out of my range but something between my Walmart $29.95 special and the Fluke would be nice. -- I have cheap meters and expensive meters. On the high end, a Bel Merit probe type meter and a Fluke DMM. On the low end, A Radio Shack and a freebie DMM that came with an order from Mouser a while back. Curious, I compared all of them closely, using a variety of voltages and resistances. They are ALL produce readings within 1% or one digit of each other. There are three significant differences though. 1) Speed. The RS and cheapie meter take about 2 or 3 seconds to produce a reading. The Fluke and Bel Merit are virtually instantaneous. Reading about the design of these meters, it seems that they all tend to use the same divider chain for the ranges, and that modern manufacturing technologies ensure that the accuracy of these dividers are very good. That also determines the accuracy of the readings. The highest priced items in the meter are the chip that takes the analog input from the range divider and drives the digital display and the digital display itself. The cheaper I.C.s are slow. That's why the RS meter takes 2 or 3 seconds to produce a display while the more expensive meters look almost instantaneous. 2) Resolution. To hold down costs, many cheaper meters have only 3 or 3-1/2 digit displays. That is usually adequate for just about anything you might do. My RS, Fluke and Bel Merit all have four digit displays, typical of better meters. Also, some meters have a little row of dots or bars that vary with the reading. That's handy when making an adjustment when peaking a voltage, but it's pretty useless in a slower meter where you have to wait for a couple of seconds after making a change to see the results! 3) Durability. Robust packaging helps keep a meter working after hard physical use. Cheaper meters tend to skimp here. Still, one can be careful. I have an old d'Arsonval movement VOM (common wiggly-needle type of meter from the 1960's) that I still prefer when the oscilloscope isn't handy for peaking a circuit adjustment. It's a nice Radio Shack meter, but it is absolutely fragile, I'm sure. Still, I've had it for 40 years and it's still working FB. I just don't take it up a tower or other dangerous places. It stays on the bench or packed away in its box . I do use my Fluke more than most. The Bel Merit, which fits easily in my shirt pocket, goes up masts or towers with me and generally anywhere where I want to travel "light" because it's small. Its disadvantage, being a "pen" or "probe" type instrument in which the display is an integral part of the probe, is that it's sometimes hard to see the display when holding the tip on the circuit. Also it doesn't do current measurements. In spite of its slower speed, the RS meter gets LOTS of use because it analyzes transistors showing the correct pinout along with an hFE reading directly and measures capacitor values from a few pF to many microfarads - as well as doing the common voltage/current/resistance checks. Neither my Fluke or Bel Merit offer all of those features. Frankly, if I had to take only one meter, I'd take the Radio Shack for its versatility. The model I have isn't made any longer, but I think the replacement is RS 22-812 (http://tinyurl.com/58fmn). The web page doesn't mention capacitance measurements in the features list, but the instruction manual says it does. This one has added a PC interface and a protective boot. It's about $70. If you're on a real tight budget, a cheaper meter will suffice. The only ones to really avoid at all costs are the older d'Arsonval meters built for use before solid state, like the venerable Simpson 260's and the like that many OT's use. They are FB meters, but load the circuit they test much more than modern DMM's and, more importantly, they drive the Ohms measurements with far more voltage and current than is safe for most solid state electronics. You can destroy a lot of modern circuitry by simply making a resistance check with one of those. Any of the modern DMM's are quite safe in that respect. Even the cheap ones. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://ma
RE: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
Chuck, KI4DGH, wrote: I would like to see some recommendations for a Digital Multimeter. The Fluke 187 is a little out of my range but something between my Walmart $29.95 special and the Fluke would be nice. -- I have cheap meters and expensive meters. On the high end, a Bel Merit probe type meter and a Fluke DMM. On the low end, A Radio Shack and a freebie DMM that came with an order from Mouser a while back. Curious, I compared all of them closely, using a variety of voltages and resistances. They are ALL produce readings within 1% or one digit of each other. There are three significant differences though. 1) Speed. The RS and cheapie meter take about 2 or 3 seconds to produce a reading. The Fluke and Bel Merit are virtually instantaneous. Reading about the design of these meters, it seems that they all tend to use the same divider chain for the ranges, and that modern manufacturing technologies ensure that the accuracy of these dividers are very good. That also determines the accuracy of the readings. The highest priced items in the meter are the chip that takes the analog input from the range divider and drives the digital display and the digital display itself. The cheaper I.C.s are slow. That's why the RS meter takes 2 or 3 seconds to produce a display while the more expensive meters look almost instantaneous. 2) Resolution. To hold down costs, many cheaper meters have only 3 or 3-1/2 digit displays. That is usually adequate for just about anything you might do. My RS, Fluke and Bel Merit all have four digit displays, typical of better meters. Also, some meters have a little row of dots or bars that vary with the reading. That's handy when making an adjustment when peaking a voltage, but it's pretty useless in a slower meter where you have to wait for a couple of seconds after making a change to see the results! 3) Durability. Robust packaging helps keep a meter working after hard physical use. Cheaper meters tend to skimp here. Still, one can be careful. I have an old d'Arsonval movement VOM (common wiggly-needle type of meter from the 1960's) that I still prefer when the oscilloscope isn't handy for peaking a circuit adjustment. It's a nice Radio Shack meter, but it is absolutely fragile, I'm sure. Still, I've had it for 40 years and it's still working FB. I just don't take it up a tower or other dangerous places. It stays on the bench or packed away in its box . I do use my Fluke more than most. The Bel Merit, which fits easily in my shirt pocket, goes up masts or towers with me and generally anywhere where I want to travel "light" because it's small. Its disadvantage, being a "pen" or "probe" type instrument in which the display is an integral part of the probe, is that it's sometimes hard to see the display when holding the tip on the circuit. Also it doesn't do current measurements. In spite of its slower speed, the RS meter gets LOTS of use because it analyzes transistors showing the correct pinout along with an hFE reading directly and measures capacitor values from a few pF to many microfarads - as well as doing the common voltage/current/resistance checks. Neither my Fluke or Bel Merit offer all of those features. Frankly, if I had to take only one meter, I'd take the Radio Shack for its versatility. The model I have isn't made any longer, but I think the replacement is RS 22-812 (http://tinyurl.com/58fmn). The web page doesn't mention capacitance measurements in the features list, but the instruction manual says it does. This one has added a PC interface and a protective boot. It's about $70. If you're on a real tight budget, a cheaper meter will suffice. The only ones to really avoid at all costs are the older d'Arsonval meters built for use before solid state, like the venerable Simpson 260's and the like that many OT's use. They are FB meters, but load the circuit they test much more than modern DMM's and, more importantly, they drive the Ohms measurements with far more voltage and current than is safe for most solid state electronics. You can destroy a lot of modern circuitry by simply making a resistance check with one of those. Any of the modern DMM's are quite safe in that respect. Even the cheap ones. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
Check your local Home Depot or Lowe's home centers and hardware stores. They have had good buys on brand name 3 1/2 digit meters of late. Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
Chuck - A couple of months ago I picked up a Velleman DVM, Model DVM890. It is a 3 1/2 digit, manual range instrument. It does all the usual functions (Ohms, DC Volts, AC Volts), plus capacitance, temperature (it comes with a probe), transistor Hfe, diode checking, AC and DC amperes (to 20 amperes), and audio frequency to 20 KHz. The temperature probe works from -50 to +1000 degrees C ( -60 to +1800 degrees F). I use it to check temperatures of soldering irons and my solder pot. It does not do inductance. But, for my money, it rates as a very good buy. About the same size as a Fluke 8020. It has HUGE (1 inch character height) display digits - good for us old guys . Accuracy wise, it compares nicely with my Hewlett Packard 3478A units. I did a quick Google search, and came up with the following link, advertising a unit for $49.00 + postage. http://www.ba-electronics.com/dvm890.htm You may be able to find a better price by doing a more extensive search. or perhaps find a local dealer that will match that price. . 73 - Jim, KL7CC ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to see some recommendations for a Digital Multimeter. The Fluke 187 is a little out of my range but something between my Walmart $29.95 special and the Fluke would be nice. 73 KI4DGH Chuck G. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Fwd: Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations]
Original Message Subject:Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:00:12 -0600 From: Robert Conley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: R. Kevin Stover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> R. Kevin Stover wrote: I just Got a B+K Precision model 2707A from Kiesub Electronic Supply for $91 and change. It isn't autoranging like the Fluke but I figure I can turn a dial. You may be able to get it a little cheaper at Mouser but I ordered mine at the same time I ordered my Hakko 936. K2/100 with all the goodies arrives Wednesday. Good Luck. Mouser sells the B&K 2707A for $89. Why not the B&K 2704B for $59 if you need a DMM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
I just Got a B+K Precision model 2707A from Kiesub Electronic Supply for $91 and change. It isn't autoranging like the Fluke but I figure I can turn a dial. You may be able to get it a little cheaper at Mouser but I ordered mine at the same time I ordered my Hakko 936. K2/100 with all the goodies arrives Wednesday. Good Luck. -- R. Kevin Stover, ACØH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
I just purchased a Fluke 112 and I like if very much. This is the first DVM that I have had that measures capacitance and frequency. Other than that it is just like most other DVM's. It is also a bit smaller than my previous Fluke 8020B. I purchased it locally for $149.95 plus tax but I could have got it cheaper on e-bay. -- John K7SVV - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:01 PM Subject: [Elecraft] DMM Recommendations I would like to see some recommendations for a Digital Multimeter. The Fluke 187 is a little out of my range but something between my Walmart $29.95 special and the Fluke would be nice. 73 KI4DGH Chuck G. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] DMM Recommendations
I would like to see some recommendations for a Digital Multimeter. The Fluke 187 is a little out of my range but something between my Walmart $29.95 special and the Fluke would be nice. 73 KI4DGH Chuck G. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
