Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Now I'm really confused. I thought I had it straight in my head, after slogging through all the info in the ARRL posts, etc., that we would NOT be able to have more than one PSK (or CW) QSO going on in a given channel, because we are required to always put the one PSK or CW signal at the same offset within that channel. I remember being disappointed in the idea that we wouldn't be able to use a single channel or two as a virtual CW or PSK mini-band, thus making much more efficient use of the limited spectrum being made available to us. The conclusion I reached was that even if that would be the most efficient use of the spectrum, that it would likely drive the primary users nuts trying to figure out how to shut up a whole crowd of users when they wanted to use the channel, thus the reason for barring us from stuffing the channel with multiple narrow-band signals. Did I somehow misread the whole thing? Thanks, -- Dave, N8SBE On 2/3/2012 10:58 PM, Sandy wrote: Firstly, if you read the Summary of the RO, it specifically states that for FSK emission designator is: 60H0J2D. 60 Hz being the bandwidth of the PSK emissions. Under ideal conditions, I would suppose that about 1.5 khz of space would be usable at least with a normal SSB transceiver on PSK-31. If the tones are much below 0.5khz you run into some distortion that seems to prevail on some transceivers and cause spurious signals, ditto above 2 khz. No doubt some rigs might work OK, some might not. Still several simultaneous QSO's could be accommodated in say a 1.5 =2 khz bandwidth with no problem if there wasn't a Power hog trying to outdo everyone else on the channel. One MUST be a Good neighbor and not run excessive power (even under the 100w PEP ERP requirement) in order for everyone to have his QSO with adjoining stations operating. A normal RTTY station would be much broader than allowed by the emission designator. PSK-31 can be a very delightful and reliable mode but one Lid can wreck a whole band of PSK channels using 2 khz of band space. 97.307 specifically assigns the 60H0J2B bandwidth designator in the addition/revision rules in the Federal Register for part 97. So it seems that PSK-31 WOULD be able to use more than one QSO in the channel space allotted per channel as long as there wasn't any spurious crud outside or inside the assigned channel. Most of the waterfall displays have frequency calibrations which can be very close if one sets up his transceiver's frequency correctly. The space used by each user of PSK-31 is limited to what the emission designator specifies and not the 2.8 khz bandwidth as is specified for PACTOR data. Being much narrower than PACTOR several PSK-31 co-users should be possible per channel. For CW the RO also says the CW signal will be 1.5 Khz above the suppressed carrier frequency used by the USB mode and one would assume that it would have to be within + or - 75 Hz of that center frequency. This would pretty much limit each channel to one CW QSO per channel at any one time. (emission designator for CW is: 150HA1A) Just an observation. We will find out what happens when March 5th comes and the new emissions are tried out. There probably WILL be some growing pains and also newbies who don't understand the problems that will pop up in channelized spectrum space in ham radio. I'm looking forward to operating both CW (and PSK-31 eventually when I get my interface for the FT-990 xcvr built) It should be fun and very useful having these additions to just voice modes on 60 meters! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Rick Bates Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 9:14 PM To: 'Sandy' Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. Since PSK is usually sound card based, keeping everything within the required 2.8 KHz means there will be less space (than say 14.07 MHz) for shared channel use. The one caveat I see is if one uses the FSK (or PSK in a K3) mode of the radio. You have to know if it is displaying the suppressed carrier frequency OR is it displaying the MARK frequency and adjust accordingly? For CW, use the channel center frequency (up 1500 Hz from the suppressed carrier frequency). Comments? Rick WA6NHC -Original Message- From: Sandy Hey guys! I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that channel and claim it. It looks like there isn't ANY normal RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It would be hard to run normal RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. 73, Sandy W5TVW - No virus found
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
I think we all need to be careful. In the case of USB, we put our suppressed carrier [i.e. dial reading on a K3] 1.5 KHz below the authorized center frequency. The USB energy is above that and fills the 2.8 MHz channel, and it's one QSO per channel. For CW, we are told to put our keyed RF signal *on* the channel center frequency. There is only one center frequency per channel, so again, it's one QSO per channel. CW and USB seem pretty clear. The two data modes aren't quite as clear. Data, as the FCC uses it is a 2K80J2D emission which wiki.radioreference.com defines as HF PACTOR-III. Again, the emission fills the channel and it's one QSO per channel. The FCC's RTTY is a 60H0J2B emission which radioreference.com defines as PSK31, which precludes what we hams define as RTTY [45.5 baud 170 Hz shift FSK]. What's not clear is where to place your PSK31 signal. If your PSK31 signal extends upward from your dial frequency, then the RO seems to say you put your dial frequency 1.5 KHz below the channel center frequency. Where you actually transmit your PSK31 signal above that doesn't appear to be specified as long as it isn't 2.8 KHz or more, which is a little strange. Given the one QSO per channel philosophy for CW, Phone, and PACTOR-III, I would think that they would want my PSK31 signal centered in the channel and it would be one PSK31 QSO per channel like the other emissions. It just doesn't say that explicitly. There are several references in the RO to various techniques for minimizing interference to Federal users, and that seems to be a driving factor behind the one QSO per channel requirement. If it's just me and you conversing, there will be natural, frequent breaks for a primary user to claim the channel. If the 60H0J2B emission type is intended to allow multiple QSO's within the channel, as happens now above 14070, there will be no breaks and no way for a primary user to claim the channel. I don't have the answer, if someone does I'd really like to hear it, but do I think we all need to be careful as 5 March rolls around. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 2/3/2012 7:14 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Fred, I am glad you stated the their RTTY = our PSK as I had realized that it wasn't RTTY as we know it but did not know it was PSK which I had assumed was allowed but with the question of one signal vs. many. I have the same questions and understandings, but... One item you didn't explicitly state is the dial frequency for CW operation. Let me make a statement and see if I understand the CW usage settings. For those NOT using a PC and digital display program, the dial would be set to the exact zero beat frequency of the station you ware responding to. Does the digital operator using a waterfall in CW mode (using HRD for example) set the received signal for 600 Hz (if that is what they have set in the radio for tone frequency) below (if in USB) in order to display the received signal at the plus 600 marker on the waterfall so they will transmit on his same frequency? Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP - Original Message - From: Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction I think we all need to be careful. In the case of USB, we put our suppressed carrier [i.e. dial reading on a K3] 1.5 KHz below the authorized center frequency. The USB energy is above that and fills the 2.8 MHz channel, and it's one QSO per channel. For CW, we are told to put our keyed RF signal *on* the channel center frequency. There is only one center frequency per channel, so again, it's one QSO per channel. CW and USB seem pretty clear. The two data modes aren't quite as clear. Data, as the FCC uses it is a 2K80J2D emission which wiki.radioreference.com defines as HF PACTOR-III. Again, the emission fills the channel and it's one QSO per channel. The FCC's RTTY is a 60H0J2B emission which radioreference.com defines as PSK31, which precludes what we hams define as RTTY [45.5 baud 170 Hz shift FSK]. What's not clear is where to place your PSK31 signal. If your PSK31 signal extends upward from your dial frequency, then the RO seems to say you put your dial frequency 1.5 KHz below the channel center frequency. Where you actually transmit your PSK31 signal above that doesn't appear to be specified as long as it isn't 2.8 KHz or more, which is a little strange. Given the one QSO per channel philosophy for CW, Phone, and PACTOR-III, I would think that they would want my PSK31 signal centered in the channel and it would be one PSK31 QSO per channel like the other emissions. It just doesn't say that explicitly. There are several references in the RO to various techniques for minimizing interference to Federal users, and that seems to be a driving factor behind the one QSO per channel requirement. If it's just me and you conversing, there will be natural, frequent breaks for a primary user to claim the channel. If the 60H0J2B emission type is intended to allow multiple QSO's within the channel, as happens now above 14070, there will be no breaks and no way for a primary user to claim the channel. I don't have the answer, if someone does I'd really like to hear it, but do I think we all need to be careful as 5 March rolls around. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 2/3/2012 7:14 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
Sandy wrote: I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that channel and claim it. That channel will likely become the favorite 60 meter frequency for the several military and vintage commercial radio USB nets because the carrier frequency 5357 kHz can be precisely entered on units that can be set only in 1 kHz increments. All other 60 meter USB channels require the ability to set the unit on 0.5 kHz increments. It looks like there isn't ANY normal RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It would be hard to run normal RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. The rules mention only 60H0J2B and the discussion explains why, due to the J2B designation, it is considered RTTY. The 2K80J2D Data mode seems to refers to PACTOR-III. But isn't PACTOR-III a commercial and proprietary protocol? The FCC seems to include it for some future use with non-ham emergency networks. So, the authorized emissions seem pretty simple: 150HA1A CW Morse telegraphy, transmitter dial on the channel center frequency 2K80J3E USB phone, transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 60H0J2B RTTY (PSK-31 sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 2K80J2D DATA (PACTOR-III sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? I wish conventional 170 Hz FSK RTTY had been authorized. I don't know why that would be worse than USB Phone or PACTOR-III. 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? In the discussion part of the Report and Order, the Commission made it clear that the PSK31 signal *must* be located on the channel center - there were not to be multiple signals per channel creating a mini PSK31 band. To comply with the Commission's intent, PSK31 should be operated with a 1500 Hz audio tone and the dial set 1.5 KHz below the channel center. If, as in the case of the K3, the PSK generator uses a subcarrier other than 1500 Hz, the dial frequency must be offset as needed to place the resulting PSK31 signal in the center of the assigned channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2/4/2012 3:32 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: Sandy wrote: I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that channel and claim it. That channel will likely become the favorite 60 meter frequency for the several military and vintage commercial radio USB nets because the carrier frequency 5357 kHz can be precisely entered on units that can be set only in 1 kHz increments. All other 60 meter USB channels require the ability to set the unit on 0.5 kHz increments. It looks like there isn't ANY normal RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It would be hard to run normal RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. The rules mention only 60H0J2B and the discussion explains why, due to the J2B designation, it is considered RTTY. The 2K80J2D Data mode seems to refers to PACTOR-III. But isn't PACTOR-III a commercial and proprietary protocol? The FCC seems to include it for some future use with non-ham emergency networks. So, the authorized emissions seem pretty simple: 150HA1A CW Morse telegraphy, transmitter dial on the channel center frequency 2K80J3E USB phone, transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 60H0J2B RTTY (PSK-31 sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 2K80J2D DATA (PACTOR-III sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? I wish conventional 170 Hz FSK RTTY had been authorized. I don't know why that would be worse than USB Phone or PACTOR-III. 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
First off, I'm not a lawyer (and reading it provided a headache) but my interpretation is: If USB, select the suppressed carrier on your display (K3). If CW, go to the CHANNEL CENTER (up 1.5 KHz from suppressed carrier). If PSK (RTTY) or PACTOR III, set as per USB; the suppressed carrier. *BUT* make darned sure that your 'data' mode uses USB, not LSB and that your display shows suppressed carrier in USB. (i.e. when in FSK, my TS0940 displays the MARK frequency, which would be WRONG.) Answering a call on exactly the same frequency (in CW) is no guarantee of being correct (or legal). You are responsible for YOUR station only. Pactor III will consume most if not all of the bandwidth, one user per channel at a time. Now there is no (obvious) mention of what tones must be used for PSK; there is only mention of bandwidth (2.8 KHz from suppressed carrier on the UPPER side). So if one station were to use say something in the 500 Hz audio range while another were to use the 900 Hz range while a third used something in the 1200 Hz range; each of those bandwidths is WELL within the 2.8 KHz limit and *should* be legal while allowing three or more QSO's at the same time. If we are limited to using tones in the 1500 Hz range, it limits us to one station at a time. I didn't see such limitations. So since it is unclear, one must pay special attention to the bandwidth and audio frequencies used to ensure the signal is well within the channel limits. I would suspect that this will be hashed about by numerous folks for the next month and hopefully the FCC (informally) or ARRL will clarify before there is an issue. In the meantime, it's mostly a guessing game unless one understands the inverted reverse convoluted legalese used in the RO and resulting post in the Federal Register. In a perfect world, they'd say Here is the channel bandwidth, don't go beyond the edges. They didn't. This appears to be a grand experiment to see if we can share NTIA channels as well as offering a band between 80 and 40 meters for hurricane nets etc. I would suggest EXTREME caution for CW and data ops until this shakes out. If in doubt, don't. Rick wa6nhc Caveat: You're on your own. Period. ;-) -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen I think we all need to be careful. In the case of USB, we put our suppressed carrier [i.e. dial reading on a K3] 1.5 KHz below the authorized center frequency. The USB energy is above that and fills the 2.8 MHz channel, and it's one QSO per channel. For CW, we are told to put our keyed RF signal *on* the channel center frequency. There is only one center frequency per channel, so again, it's one QSO per channel. CW and USB seem pretty clear. The two data modes aren't quite as clear. Data, as the FCC uses it is a 2K80J2D emission which wiki.radioreference.com defines as HF PACTOR-III. Again, the emission fills the channel and it's one QSO per channel. The FCC's RTTY is a 60H0J2B emission which radioreference.com defines as PSK31, which precludes what we hams define as RTTY [45.5 baud 170 Hz shift FSK]. What's not clear is where to place your PSK31 signal. If your PSK31 signal extends upward from your dial frequency, then the RO seems to say you put your dial frequency 1.5 KHz below the channel center frequency. Where you actually transmit your PSK31 signal above that doesn't appear to be specified as long as it isn't 2.8 KHz or more, which is a little strange. Given the one QSO per channel philosophy for CW, Phone, and PACTOR-III, I would think that they would want my PSK31 signal centered in the channel and it would be one PSK31 QSO per channel like the other emissions. It just doesn't say that explicitly. There are several references in the RO to various techniques for minimizing interference to Federal users, and that seems to be a driving factor behind the one QSO per channel requirement. If it's just me and you conversing, there will be natural, frequent breaks for a primary user to claim the channel. If the 60H0J2B emission type is intended to allow multiple QSO's within the channel, as happens now above 14070, there will be no breaks and no way for a primary user to claim the channel. I don't have the answer, if someone does I'd really like to hear it, but do I think we all need to be careful as 5 March rolls around. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 2/3/2012 7:14 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
See remarks included below... -Original Message- From: Dave New Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:55 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction Now I'm really confused. I thought I had it straight in my head, after slogging through all the info in the ARRL posts, etc., that we would NOT be able to have more than one PSK (or CW) QSO going on in a given channel, because we are required to always put the one PSK or CW signal at the same offset within that channel. NO! The PSK-31 signal is not required to stay on a specific frequency. It can be anywhere from the channel low frequency edge plus 100 Hz. up to the high frequency edge of the channel minus 100 Hz. (the confines of the 2.8 Khz channel width. (The channel is 3 khz wide, but there is a 100 Hz. Guard band at the top and bottom of the channel where no signal is emitted within.) On the other hand, the CW carrier frequency IS specified and being in the dead center of the channel and nowhere else! I remember being disappointed in the idea that we wouldn't be able to use a single channel or two as a virtual CW or PSK mini-band, thus making much more efficient use of the limited spectrum being made available to us. No, only the center frequency is available. One QSO per channel on CW, unless band conditions allow two pairs of stations to use the same frequency if they are not interfering with each other. The conclusion I reached was that even if that would be the most efficient use of the spectrum, that it would likely drive the primary users nuts trying to figure out how to shut up a whole crowd of users when they wanted to use the channel, thus the reason for barring us from stuffing the channel with multiple narrow-band signals. Did I somehow misread the whole thing? I see nothing in the info in the federal regiaster poosting about just a single user at once per channel. (Unless there is something there I missed!) 73, Sandy W5TVW : 2112/4788 - Release Date: 02/04/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
All correct! It makes no difference what frequency you use on PSK! As long as the pair of tones are within the 2.8 Khz bandwidth of the Channel. There is a 100 Hz. guard band at the top and bottom edges of the Channel therefore the channel is only 2.8 Khz wide. Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:48 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction I think we all need to be careful. In the case of USB, we put our suppressed carrier [i.e. dial reading on a K3] 1.5 KHz below the authorized center frequency. The USB energy is above that and fills the 2.8 MHz channel, and it's one QSO per channel. For CW, we are told to put our keyed RF signal *on* the channel center frequency. There is only one center frequency per channel, so again, it's one QSO per channel. CW and USB seem pretty clear. The two data modes aren't quite as clear. Data, as the FCC uses it is a 2K80J2D emission which wiki.radioreference.com defines as HF PACTOR-III. Again, the emission fills the channel and it's one QSO per channel. The FCC's RTTY is a 60H0J2B emission which radioreference.com defines as PSK31, which precludes what we hams define as RTTY [45.5 baud 170 Hz shift FSK]. What's not clear is where to place your PSK31 signal. If your PSK31 signal extends upward from your dial frequency, then the RO seems to say you put your dial frequency 1.5 KHz below the channel center frequency. Where you actually transmit your PSK31 signal above that doesn't appear to be specified as long as it isn't 2.8 KHz or more, which is a little strange. Given the one QSO per channel philosophy for CW, Phone, and PACTOR-III, I would think that they would want my PSK31 signal centered in the channel and it would be one PSK31 QSO per channel like the other emissions. It just doesn't say that explicitly. There are several references in the RO to various techniques for minimizing interference to Federal users, and that seems to be a driving factor behind the one QSO per channel requirement. If it's just me and you conversing, there will be natural, frequent breaks for a primary user to claim the channel. If the 60H0J2B emission type is intended to allow multiple QSO's within the channel, as happens now above 14070, there will be no breaks and no way for a primary user to claim the channel. I don't have the answer, if someone does I'd really like to hear it, but do I think we all need to be careful as 5 March rolls around. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 2/3/2012 7:14 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4788 - Release Date: 02/04/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
On 2/4/2012 4:52 PM, Sandy wrote: All correct! It makes no difference what frequency you use on PSK! As long as the pair of tones are within the 2.8 Khz bandwidth of the Channel. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! *Read* the FCC's Report Order - it is far more complete than the rules changes printed in the Federal Register. In the Report Order, the Commission *expressly prohibits* multiple users per channel in both RTTY and CW mode and directs that all signals will be centered in the respective channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2/4/2012 4:52 PM, Sandy wrote: All correct! It makes no difference what frequency you use on PSK! As long as the pair of tones are within the 2.8 Khz bandwidth of the Channel. There is a 100 Hz. guard band at the top and bottom edges of the Channel therefore the channel is only 2.8 Khz wide. Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:48 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction I think we all need to be careful. In the case of USB, we put our suppressed carrier [i.e. dial reading on a K3] 1.5 KHz below the authorized center frequency. The USB energy is above that and fills the 2.8 MHz channel, and it's one QSO per channel. For CW, we are told to put our keyed RF signal *on* the channel center frequency. There is only one center frequency per channel, so again, it's one QSO per channel. CW and USB seem pretty clear. The two data modes aren't quite as clear. Data, as the FCC uses it is a 2K80J2D emission which wiki.radioreference.com defines as HF PACTOR-III. Again, the emission fills the channel and it's one QSO per channel. The FCC's RTTY is a 60H0J2B emission which radioreference.com defines as PSK31, which precludes what we hams define as RTTY [45.5 baud 170 Hz shift FSK]. What's not clear is where to place your PSK31 signal. If your PSK31 signal extends upward from your dial frequency, then the RO seems to say you put your dial frequency 1.5 KHz below the channel center frequency. Where you actually transmit your PSK31 signal above that doesn't appear to be specified as long as it isn't 2.8 KHz or more, which is a little strange. Given the one QSO per channel philosophy for CW, Phone, and PACTOR-III, I would think that they would want my PSK31 signal centered in the channel and it would be one PSK31 QSO per channel like the other emissions. It just doesn't say that explicitly. There are several references in the RO to various techniques for minimizing interference to Federal users, and that seems to be a driving factor behind the one QSO per channel requirement. If it's just me and you conversing, there will be natural, frequent breaks for a primary user to claim the channel. If the 60H0J2B emission type is intended to allow multiple QSO's within the channel, as happens now above 14070, there will be no breaks and no way for a primary user to claim the channel. I don't have the answer, if someone does I'd really like to hear it, but do I think we all need to be careful as 5 March rolls around. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 2/3/2012 7:14 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4788 - Release Date: 02/04/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
I would presume that the reason they didn't include conventional RTTY is because of the excessive bandwidth. You can do the same thing with PSK-31 and MORE and with less power output. Add to that multiple simultaneous users of the same channel! It’s a natural for channelized bandplan channels. 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:32 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published That channel will likely become the favorite 60 meter frequency for the several military and vintage commercial radio USB nets because the carrier frequency 5357 kHz can be precisely entered on units that can be set only in 1 kHz increments. All other 60 meter USB channels require the ability to set the unit on 0.5 kHz increments. It looks like there isn't ANY normal RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It would be hard to run normal RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. The rules mention only 60H0J2B and the discussion explains why, due to the J2B designation, it is considered RTTY. The 2K80J2D Data mode seems to refers to PACTOR-III. But isn't PACTOR-III a commercial and proprietary protocol? The FCC seems to include it for some future use with non-ham emergency networks. So, the authorized emissions seem pretty simple: 150HA1A CW Morse telegraphy, transmitter dial on the channel center frequency 2K80J3E USB phone, transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 60H0J2B RTTY (PSK-31 sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 2K80J2D DATA (PACTOR-III sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? I wish conventional 170 Hz FSK RTTY had been authorized. I don't know why that would be worse than USB Phone or PACTOR-III. 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4788 - Release Date: 02/04/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
Joe, Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in the Federal Register? I saw no indication that the PSK signal MUST be on some specific location within a channel. I do remember some random discussion about there being one user per channel at the same time, but this doesn't make sense for the efficient use of PSK-31. Being able to multiplex several QSO's at one time is a great advantage in a spectrum environment with little space per channel! If you see ANY reference to this in the Federal Register posting, let me know if I have overlooked it! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:45 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? In the discussion part of the Report and Order, the Commission made it clear that the PSK31 signal *must* be located on the channel center - there were not to be multiple signals per channel creating a mini PSK31 band. To comply with the Commission's intent, PSK31 should be operated with a 1500 Hz audio tone and the dial set 1.5 KHz below the channel center. If, as in the case of the K3, the PSK generator uses a subcarrier other than 1500 Hz, the dial frequency must be offset as needed to place the resulting PSK31 signal in the center of the assigned channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
To all, I no longer have the RO that was issued a few months ago. Can't locate it. Joe you must be RIGHT! My humble apologies! I say its absolutely Stupid but I guess Stupid is as stupid was as that movie saying went! In the Federal Register posting, the new 97.303 (h) states: 60 m. band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60m band), amateur stations may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table below.. THIS will not allow multiple PSK QSO's within the channel! SORRY! MY OVERSIGHT AND MY MISTAKE! To me, it's DUMB...but it will be the law! My apologies to all for getting so excited about this. I guess they are worried about the newbies being able to carry more than one hand grenade at a time! Excuse my dust fellows! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:12 PM To: Sandy Cc: k6...@foothill.net ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction On 2/4/2012 4:52 PM, Sandy wrote: All correct! It makes no difference what frequency you use on PSK! As long as the pair of tones are within the 2.8 Khz bandwidth of the Channel. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in the Federal Register? Among other places it is in the ARRL's report dated 21 November 2011: the requirement is to transmit “only on the five center frequencies specified”. In simple terms, that means the RF emission must be ON the center frequency or equally spaced on either side not just somewhere in the channel. Further, in the FCC's Report and Order: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db1118/FCC-11-171A1.pdf, paragraph 33 reads: The NPRM proposed that, for amateur stations transmitting CW emissions and PKS31 data emissions, the carrier frequency [note: FCC refers to the RF frequency of a CW or PSK31 signal as the carrier frequency - they are not referring to the dial or center of channel] shall be set to the center frequency. In paragraph 36 (ibid), the Commission writes: We ADOPT the center frequency requirement as proposed in the NPRM. Because the Amateur Service operates in the 60 meter band on a secondary basis, we pay particular attention to NTIA's position and the interests of Federal agencies that have primary status in the band. We conclude that continuing to restrict amateur stations to TRANSMITTING ON THE CENTER FREQUENCIES (emphasis added) will maintain the limited number of amateur operators using the five channels at any given time and provide certainty as to where such operators can be found. The Report and Order goes on to give the exact language that will be modified in Part 97 and I'm not going to duplicate all of it here. However, the Commission's own discussion of the matter is quite unambiguous - they want only one user at a time on each channel and they want all RF centered on the center of the channel - period. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2/4/2012 5:29 PM, Sandy wrote: Joe, Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in the Federal Register? I saw no indication that the PSK signal MUST be on some specific location within a channel. I do remember some random discussion about there being one user per channel at the same time, but this doesn't make sense for the efficient use of PSK-31. Being able to multiplex several QSO's at one time is a great advantage in a spectrum environment with little space per channel! If you see ANY reference to this in the Federal Register posting, let me know if I have overlooked it! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:45 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? In the discussion part of the Report and Order, the Commission made it clear that the PSK31 signal *must* be located on the channel center - there were not to be multiple signals per channel creating a mini PSK31 band. To comply with the Commission's intent, PSK31 should be operated with a 1500 Hz audio tone and the dial set 1.5 KHz below the channel center. If, as in the case of the K3, the PSK generator uses a subcarrier other than 1500 Hz, the dial frequency must be offset as needed to place the resulting PSK31 signal in the center of the assigned channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Who is the referee determining the channel is empty? Propagation being what it is, two stations may have QSO's going on and none of the group of 4 thinks hears the other pair. Another observer might hear both QSO's at the same time. Thus a violation has occurred. There is no avoiding multiple QSO's/channel CW,PHONE or PSK. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 2/4/2012 22:52, Sandy wrote: To all, I no longer have the RO that was issued a few months ago. Can't locate it. Joe you must be RIGHT! My humble apologies! I say its absolutely Stupid but I guess Stupid is as stupid was as that movie saying went! In the Federal Register posting, the new 97.303 (h) states: 60 m. band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60m band), amateur stations may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table below.. THIS will not allow multiple PSK QSO's within the channel! SORRY! MY OVERSIGHT AND MY MISTAKE! To me, it's DUMB...but it will be the law! My apologies to all for getting so excited about this. I guess they are worried about the newbies being able to carry more than one hand grenade at a time! Excuse my dust fellows! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:12 PM To: Sandy Cc: k6...@foothill.net ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction On 2/4/2012 4:52 PM, Sandy wrote: All correct! It makes no difference what frequency you use on PSK! As long as the pair of tones are within the 2.8 Khz bandwidth of the Channel. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2112/4788 - Release Date: 02/04/12 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2112/4788 - Release Date: 02/04/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
I would believe that the purpose of that requirement is that the primary user can take over the channel without undue effort - contact one user and cause that user to cease and desist will get the task done. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/4/2012 5:56 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in the Federal Register? Among other places it is in the ARRL's report dated 21 November 2011: the requirement is to transmit “only on the five center frequencies specified”. In simple terms, that means the RF emission must be ON the center frequency or equally spaced on either side not just somewhere in the channel. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules
Apologies to those who prefer top-posting- in this case, makes more sense to respond in line. Who is the referee determining the channel is empty? Propagation being what it is, two stations may have QSO's going on and none of the group , of 4 thinks hears the other pair. Another observer might hear both QSO's at the same time. Thus a violation has occurred. No violation occurs, as long as stations are using the appropriate, common frequency, only the potential for interference results- not a violation. There is no avoiding multiple QSO's/channel CW,PHONE or PSK. This is the same situation as on any amateur assigned frequency. 73 de Brian/K3KO 73, Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012
The new FCC 60 meter band rules that were announced on 18 November 2012 http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db1118/FCC-11-171A1.pdf have finally been published in the Federal Register today, 03 February 2012 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-02-03/pdf/2012-2477.pdf That means they become effective 30 days from today, on 04 March 2012. Summary: (1) Use of the existing 5366.5 kHz (carrier) is removed, replaced by 5357.0 kHz (carrier, for all modes except CW). (2) Maximum ERP raised from 50 to 100 watts PEP. (3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to the existing USB mode. NOTE: CW mode carrier must be on the assigned frequency, of the authorized channel, not 1.5 kHz below the assigned frequency as it is for other authorized modes. That makes a significant difference when switching between CW and any other mode! Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012
And license class limited to General, Advanced and Extra (as I read it). Terry W0FM -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow [mailto:k...@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 8:05 AM To: m...@mailman.qth.net; milsurp...@mailman.qth.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012 The new FCC 60 meter band rules that were announced on 18 November 2012 http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db1118/FCC-11-171A1.pdf have finally been published in the Federal Register today, 03 February 2012 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-02-03/pdf/2012-2477.pdf That means they become effective 30 days from today, on 04 March 2012. Summary: (1) Use of the existing 5366.5 kHz (carrier) is removed, replaced by 5357.0 kHz (carrier, for all modes except CW). (2) Maximum ERP raised from 50 to 100 watts PEP. (3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to the existing USB mode. NOTE: CW mode carrier must be on the assigned frequency, of the authorized channel, not 1.5 kHz below the assigned frequency as it is for other authorized modes. That makes a significant difference when switching between CW and any other mode! Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012 - Correction
I wrote: The new FCC 60 meter band rules ... have finally been published in the Federal Register today, 03 February 2012 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-02-03/pdf/2012-2477.pdf That means they become effective 30 days from today, on 04 March 2012. The Ordering Clause of the published rule makes this rule effective on 05 March 2012, 31 days after FR publishing. That's because 04 March 2012 is a Sunday. Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012
Thanks for the update, Mike. Just so nobody get in trouble, the effective date is March 5, 2012, as specified in the notice. (I guess they don't know it's a leap year.) 73, Terry N6RY On 2012-02-03 6:05 AM, Mike Morrow wrote: The new FCC 60 meter band rules that were announced on 18 November 2012 http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db1118/FCC-11-171A1.pdf have finally been published in the Federal Register today, 03 February 2012 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-02-03/pdf/2012-2477.pdf That means they become effective 30 days from today, on 04 March 2012. Summary: (1) Use of the existing 5366.5 kHz (carrier) is removed, replaced by 5357.0 kHz (carrier, for all modes except CW). (2) Maximum ERP raised from 50 to 100 watts PEP. (3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to the existing USB mode. NOTE: CW mode carrier must be on the assigned frequency, of the authorized channel, not 1.5 kHz below the assigned frequency as it is for other authorized modes. That makes a significant difference when switching between CW and any other mode! Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Did I miss the conversation about how the K3 will handle the rule changes? Firmware update in the works, anyone, or do we have to manually program all the weird mode offsets somehow ourselves, using macros? Makes my head hurt... 73, -- Dave, N8SBE On 2/3/2012 2:23 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: I wrote: The new FCC 60 meter band rules ... have finally been published in the Federal Register today, 03 February 2012 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-02-03/pdf/2012-2477.pdf That means they become effective 30 days from today, on 04 March 2012. The Ordering Clause of the published rule makes this rule effective on 05 March 2012, 31 days after FR publishing. That's because 04 March 2012 is a Sunday. Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012
Did I miss the conversation about how the K3 will handle the rule changes? Firmware update in the works, anyone, or do we have to manually program all the weird mode offsets somehow ourselves, using macros? For my non-Elecraft HF rig, I just performed the obvious and simple. I programmed ten memories with the following to meet all the requirements of the new rules: CH. FREQ-kHz MODE 01 5330.5 USB 02 5332.0 CW 03 5346.5 USB 04 5348.0 CW 05 5357.0 USB 06 5358.5 CW 07 5371.5 USB 08 5373.0 CW 09 5403.5 USB 10 5405.0 CW I don't know what's in store for the K3 and KX3. 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In Federal Register On 03 February 2012 - Correction
It's on my list. I want to be the first one to make a 60-meter CW QSO anyway :) 73, Wayne N6KR On Feb 3, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Dave New wrote: Did I miss the conversation about how the K3 will handle the rule changes? Firmware update in the works, anyone, or do we have to manually program all the weird mode offsets somehow ourselves, using macros? Makes my head hurt... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In FederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Wayne, Post when you'll be on if you can. You're WELL within my 'local' coverage area here in the foothills. Lessee, that starts at 4 PM Pacific time on 4 Mar 12 (local date)... You'll have to tolerate keyboard code, I've never been much on CW otherwise. Rick wa6nhc -Original Message- From: Wayne Burdick It's on my list. I want to be the first one to make a 60-meter CW QSO anyway :) 73, Wayne N6KR On Feb 3, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Dave New wrote: Did I miss the conversation about how the K3 will handle the rule changes? Firmware update in the works, anyone, or do we have to manually program all the weird mode offsets somehow ourselves, using macros? Makes my head hurt... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In FederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Hey guys! I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that channel and claim it. It looks like there isn't ANY normal RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It would be hard to run normal RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. 73, Sandy W5TVW Wonder if someone would be ready for a 60 meter RF card for the K1? -Original Message- From: Wayne Burdick Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:01 PM To: Dave New Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published In FederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction It's on my list. I want to be the first one to make a 60-meter CW QSO anyway :) 73, Wayne N6KR On Feb 3, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Dave New wrote: Did I miss the conversation about how the K3 will handle the rule changes? Firmware update in the works, anyone, or do we have to manually program all the weird mode offsets somehow ourselves, using macros? Makes my head hurt... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4784 - Release Date: 02/03/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. Since PSK is usually sound card based, keeping everything within the required 2.8 KHz means there will be less space (than say 14.07 MHz) for shared channel use. The one caveat I see is if one uses the FSK (or PSK in a K3) mode of the radio. You have to know if it is displaying the suppressed carrier frequency OR is it displaying the MARK frequency and adjust accordingly? For CW, use the channel center frequency (up 1500 Hz from the suppressed carrier frequency). Comments? Rick WA6NHC -Original Message- From: Sandy Hey guys! I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that channel and claim it. It looks like there isn't ANY normal RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It would be hard to run normal RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. 73, Sandy W5TVW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction
Firstly, if you read the Summary of the RO, it specifically states that for FSK emission designator is: 60H0J2D. 60 Hz being the bandwidth of the PSK emissions. Under ideal conditions, I would suppose that about 1.5 khz of space would be usable at least with a normal SSB transceiver on PSK-31. If the tones are much below 0.5khz you run into some distortion that seems to prevail on some transceivers and cause spurious signals, ditto above 2 khz. No doubt some rigs might work OK, some might not. Still several simultaneous QSO's could be accommodated in say a 1.5 =2 khz bandwidth with no problem if there wasn't a Power hog trying to outdo everyone else on the channel. One MUST be a Good neighbor and not run excessive power (even under the 100w PEP ERP requirement) in order for everyone to have his QSO with adjoining stations operating. A normal RTTY station would be much broader than allowed by the emission designator. PSK-31 can be a very delightful and reliable mode but one Lid can wreck a whole band of PSK channels using 2 khz of band space. 97.307 specifically assigns the 60H0J2B bandwidth designator in the addition/revision rules in the Federal Register for part 97. So it seems that PSK-31 WOULD be able to use more than one QSO in the channel space allotted per channel as long as there wasn't any spurious crud outside or inside the assigned channel. Most of the waterfall displays have frequency calibrations which can be very close if one sets up his transceiver's frequency correctly. The space used by each user of PSK-31 is limited to what the emission designator specifies and not the 2.8 khz bandwidth as is specified for PACTOR data. Being much narrower than PACTOR several PSK-31 co-users should be possible per channel. For CW the RO also says the CW signal will be 1.5 Khz above the suppressed carrier frequency used by the USB mode and one would assume that it would have to be within + or - 75 Hz of that center frequency. This would pretty much limit each channel to one CW QSO per channel at any one time. (emission designator for CW is: 150HA1A) Just an observation. We will find out what happens when March 5th comes and the new emissions are tried out. There probably WILL be some growing pains and also newbies who don't understand the problems that will pop up in channelized spectrum space in ham radio. I'm looking forward to operating both CW (and PSK-31 eventually when I get my interface for the FT-990 xcvr built) It should be fun and very useful having these additions to just voice modes on 60 meters! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Rick Bates Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 9:14 PM To: 'Sandy' Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published InFederalRegister On 03 February 2012 - Correction Hi Sandy, If I read it correctly, we can use RTTY, Pactor and PSK modes (using USB if AFSK) and are limited to 2.8 KHz. It said we were NOT limited to those modes for data as it would suppress experimentation. Since PSK is usually sound card based, keeping everything within the required 2.8 KHz means there will be less space (than say 14.07 MHz) for shared channel use. The one caveat I see is if one uses the FSK (or PSK in a K3) mode of the radio. You have to know if it is displaying the suppressed carrier frequency OR is it displaying the MARK frequency and adjust accordingly? For CW, use the channel center frequency (up 1500 Hz from the suppressed carrier frequency). Comments? Rick WA6NHC -Original Message- From: Sandy Hey guys! I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that channel and claim it. It looks like there isn't ANY normal RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It would be hard to run normal RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. 73, Sandy W5TVW - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4786 - Release Date: 02/03/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
