Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

Guys - lots of very good info here, but we are beating this into the ground. 

Lets end thread thread for now in the interest of maintaining a reasonable list 
SNR. ;-)

Go out and operate, experiment with antennas, including the AX1, and see what 
has been discussed in this thread is best for you in your operating situations. 
 And of course, have fun!

73,
Eric
Moderator, Mooderator and sometimes, List Therapist..

elecraft.com
---
Sent from my iPhone 6S

> On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:28 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> What makes you think the wire isn't doing the bulk of the radiating just 
> because it drags across the ground?  Actual RF ground is usually some 
> distance below the surface, sometimes several feet.
> 
> There is a way to prove me wrong on all of this.  Connect two AX1's to a Tee 
> connector coming directly out of the rig.  Position them vertically so that 
> they act like a vertical dipole.   Use the rig's antenna tuner to make sure 
> full power is getting to the combination.  Have somebody measure the signal 
> strength at different positions around a circle some distance from the 
> rig/antenna.
> 
> Now replace the lower AX1 with the recommended 13' piece of wire, again using 
> the antenna tuner to hopefully feed the same amount of power to the AX1.   
> Take the same signal strength measurements ... again around the circle in 
> order to try to take into account any directionality of the wire if it isn't 
> mostly vertical.
> 
> If the AX1 by itself was doing most of the radiating the 2nd AX1 would be a 
> better counterpoise than the wire.  That's not debatable.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
>> On 8/27/2019 4:07 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I'm generally walking when I use the AX1 (pedestrian mobile, or /PM). It 
>> isn't possible to elevate the radial under these circumstances; it drags on 
>> the ground. The whip is the radiator.
>> 
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:05 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'll try not to beat this into the ground here, but I think the physics 
>>> here is important.
>>> 
>>> As K9YC said in his reply to you, equal currents go in both directions from 
>>> the feedpoint ... to the AX1 and to the counterpoise wire.  That's simply 
>>> physics, and it's true unless currents on the shield of the coax cause 
>>> imbalance ... in which case the coax is doing a bunch of radiating.
>>> 
>>> Now then, what is important is what happens to those equal currents.  It 
>>> doesn't matter if one side of the feedpoint is the AX1 or if it is the 
>>> "counterpoise" wire ... they are both simply loads as far as the feedpoint 
>>> is concerned.  Read that again ... it is THE critical concept.
>>> 
>>> Current generates a radiated field.  That is simple physics. Resistive loss 
>>> dissipates energy instead of radiating it.  That is also basic physics.  To 
>>> a lesser extent, current distributed over a longer length is a more 
>>> effective radiator than a shorter length even disregarding impedance 
>>> concerns.  Consequently, a short, lossy "load" is going to radiate less RF 
>>> than a longer, less lossy "load".  Straighter is better than snaky.  All of 
>>> that is fact.
>>> 
>>> Unless you have a very short counterpoise wire it is going to try to do a 
>>> better job of radiating RF than the AX1 if you give it a chance.  Keep it 
>>> as straight as possible and keep it clear of ground and other RF 
>>> dissipating structures.
>>> 
>>> That doesn't mean that the AX1 isn't serving a very useful purpose. It is.  
>>> It is allowing you to feed current into the "counterpoise" wire with a 
>>> reasonable feedpoint impedance.  That's critical.  But it doesn't mean that 
>>> the AX1 is doing the bulk of the radiating unless you aren't using a 
>>> counterpoise at all.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.  73,
>>> Dave   AB7E
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 8/27/2019 2:29 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:
 I’m not saying that an elevated counterpoise won’t work with the AX1, just 
 that I’m having trouble getting my head around considering the wire as the 
 main radiator, and the AX1 as a counterpoise???
 
 Grant NQ5T
 KX3 (8342)/KXPA100
 
 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[David Gilbert]

What makes you think the wire isn't doing the bulk of the radiating just 
because it drags across the ground?  Actual RF ground is usually some 
distance below the surface, sometimes several feet.


There is a way to prove me wrong on all of this.  Connect two AX1's to a 
Tee connector coming directly out of the rig.  Position them vertically 
so that they act like a vertical dipole.   Use the rig's antenna tuner 
to make sure full power is getting to the combination.  Have somebody 
measure the signal strength at different positions around a circle some 
distance from the rig/antenna.


Now replace the lower AX1 with the recommended 13' piece of wire, again 
using the antenna tuner to hopefully feed the same amount of power to 
the AX1.   Take the same signal strength measurements ... again around 
the circle in order to try to take into account any directionality of 
the wire if it isn't mostly vertical.


If the AX1 by itself was doing most of the radiating the 2nd AX1 would 
be a better counterpoise than the wire.  That's not debatable.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/27/2019 4:07 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

I'm generally walking when I use the AX1 (pedestrian mobile, or /PM). It isn't 
possible to elevate the radial under these circumstances; it drags on the 
ground. The whip is the radiator.

Wayne
N6KR




On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:05 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:


I'll try not to beat this into the ground here, but I think the physics here is 
important.

As K9YC said in his reply to you, equal currents go in both directions from the 
feedpoint ... to the AX1 and to the counterpoise wire.  That's simply physics, 
and it's true unless currents on the shield of the coax cause imbalance ... in 
which case the coax is doing a bunch of radiating.

Now then, what is important is what happens to those equal currents.  It doesn't matter 
if one side of the feedpoint is the AX1 or if it is the "counterpoise" wire ... 
they are both simply loads as far as the feedpoint is concerned.  Read that again ... it 
is THE critical concept.

Current generates a radiated field.  That is simple physics. Resistive loss dissipates energy 
instead of radiating it.  That is also basic physics.  To a lesser extent, current distributed over 
a longer length is a more effective radiator than a shorter length even disregarding impedance 
concerns.  Consequently, a short, lossy "load" is going to radiate less RF than a longer, 
less lossy "load".  Straighter is better than snaky.  All of that is fact.

Unless you have a very short counterpoise wire it is going to try to do a 
better job of radiating RF than the AX1 if you give it a chance.  Keep it as 
straight as possible and keep it clear of ground and other RF dissipating 
structures.

That doesn't mean that the AX1 isn't serving a very useful purpose. It is.  It is 
allowing you to feed current into the "counterpoise" wire with a reasonable 
feedpoint impedance.  That's critical.  But it doesn't mean that the AX1 is doing the 
bulk of the radiating unless you aren't using a counterpoise at all.

Hope this helps.  73,
Dave   AB7E




On 8/27/2019 2:29 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

I’m not saying that an elevated counterpoise won’t work with the AX1, just that 
I’m having trouble getting my head around considering the wire as the main 
radiator, and the AX1 as a counterpoise???

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100



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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Wayne Burdick]

And I've worked all over the world with 5 or 10 watts doing it :)

Wayne


> On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> I'm generally walking when I use the AX1 (pedestrian mobile, or /PM). It 
> isn't possible to elevate the radial under these circumstances; it drags on 
> the ground. The whip is the radiator.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:05 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I'll try not to beat this into the ground here, but I think the physics here 
>> is important.
>> 
>> As K9YC said in his reply to you, equal currents go in both directions from 
>> the feedpoint ... to the AX1 and to the counterpoise wire.  That's simply 
>> physics, and it's true unless currents on the shield of the coax cause 
>> imbalance ... in which case the coax is doing a bunch of radiating.
>> 
>> Now then, what is important is what happens to those equal currents.  It 
>> doesn't matter if one side of the feedpoint is the AX1 or if it is the 
>> "counterpoise" wire ... they are both simply loads as far as the feedpoint 
>> is concerned.  Read that again ... it is THE critical concept.
>> 
>> Current generates a radiated field.  That is simple physics. Resistive loss 
>> dissipates energy instead of radiating it.  That is also basic physics.  To 
>> a lesser extent, current distributed over a longer length is a more 
>> effective radiator than a shorter length even disregarding impedance 
>> concerns.  Consequently, a short, lossy "load" is going to radiate less RF 
>> than a longer, less lossy "load".  Straighter is better than snaky.  All of 
>> that is fact.
>> 
>> Unless you have a very short counterpoise wire it is going to try to do a 
>> better job of radiating RF than the AX1 if you give it a chance.  Keep it as 
>> straight as possible and keep it clear of ground and other RF dissipating 
>> structures.
>> 
>> That doesn't mean that the AX1 isn't serving a very useful purpose. It is.  
>> It is allowing you to feed current into the "counterpoise" wire with a 
>> reasonable feedpoint impedance.  That's critical.  But it doesn't mean that 
>> the AX1 is doing the bulk of the radiating unless you aren't using a 
>> counterpoise at all.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.  73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/27/2019 2:29 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’m not saying that an elevated counterpoise won’t work with the AX1, just 
>>> that I’m having trouble getting my head around considering the wire as the 
>>> main radiator, and the AX1 as a counterpoise???
>>> 
>>> Grant NQ5T
>>> KX3 (8342)/KXPA100
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Wayne Burdick]

I'm generally walking when I use the AX1 (pedestrian mobile, or /PM). It isn't 
possible to elevate the radial under these circumstances; it drags on the 
ground. The whip is the radiator.

Wayne
N6KR



> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:05 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'll try not to beat this into the ground here, but I think the physics here 
> is important.
> 
> As K9YC said in his reply to you, equal currents go in both directions from 
> the feedpoint ... to the AX1 and to the counterpoise wire.  That's simply 
> physics, and it's true unless currents on the shield of the coax cause 
> imbalance ... in which case the coax is doing a bunch of radiating.
> 
> Now then, what is important is what happens to those equal currents.  It 
> doesn't matter if one side of the feedpoint is the AX1 or if it is the 
> "counterpoise" wire ... they are both simply loads as far as the feedpoint is 
> concerned.  Read that again ... it is THE critical concept.
> 
> Current generates a radiated field.  That is simple physics. Resistive loss 
> dissipates energy instead of radiating it.  That is also basic physics.  To a 
> lesser extent, current distributed over a longer length is a more effective 
> radiator than a shorter length even disregarding impedance concerns.  
> Consequently, a short, lossy "load" is going to radiate less RF than a 
> longer, less lossy "load".  Straighter is better than snaky.  All of that is 
> fact.
> 
> Unless you have a very short counterpoise wire it is going to try to do a 
> better job of radiating RF than the AX1 if you give it a chance.  Keep it as 
> straight as possible and keep it clear of ground and other RF dissipating 
> structures.
> 
> That doesn't mean that the AX1 isn't serving a very useful purpose. It is.  
> It is allowing you to feed current into the "counterpoise" wire with a 
> reasonable feedpoint impedance.  That's critical.  But it doesn't mean that 
> the AX1 is doing the bulk of the radiating unless you aren't using a 
> counterpoise at all.
> 
> Hope this helps.  73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/27/2019 2:29 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not saying that an elevated counterpoise won’t work with the AX1, just 
>> that I’m having trouble getting my head around considering the wire as the 
>> main radiator, and the AX1 as a counterpoise???
>> 
>> Grant NQ5T
>> KX3 (8342)/KXPA100
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[David Gilbert]

I'll try not to beat this into the ground here, but I think the physics 
here is important.


As K9YC said in his reply to you, equal currents go in both directions 
from the feedpoint ... to the AX1 and to the counterpoise wire.  That's 
simply physics, and it's true unless currents on the shield of the coax 
cause imbalance ... in which case the coax is doing a bunch of radiating.


Now then, what is important is what happens to those equal currents.  It 
doesn't matter if one side of the feedpoint is the AX1 or if it is the 
"counterpoise" wire ... they are both simply loads as far as the 
feedpoint is concerned.  Read that again ... it is THE critical concept.


Current generates a radiated field.  That is simple physics. Resistive 
loss dissipates energy instead of radiating it.  That is also basic 
physics.  To a lesser extent, current distributed over a longer length 
is a more effective radiator than a shorter length even disregarding 
impedance concerns.  Consequently, a short, lossy "load" is going to 
radiate less RF than a longer, less lossy "load".  Straighter is better 
than snaky.  All of that is fact.


Unless you have a very short counterpoise wire it is going to try to do 
a better job of radiating RF than the AX1 if you give it a chance.  Keep 
it as straight as possible and keep it clear of ground and other RF 
dissipating structures.


That doesn't mean that the AX1 isn't serving a very useful purpose. It 
is.  It is allowing you to feed current into the "counterpoise" wire 
with a reasonable feedpoint impedance.  That's critical.  But it doesn't 
mean that the AX1 is doing the bulk of the radiating unless you aren't 
using a counterpoise at all.


Hope this helps.  73,
Dave   AB7E




On 8/27/2019 2:29 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:


I’m not saying that an elevated counterpoise won’t work with the AX1, just that 
I’m having trouble getting my head around considering the wire as the main 
radiator, and the AX1 as a counterpoise???

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100




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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Grant Youngman]

Yes, of course.  I know how things work. And I agree with Don’s comment that 
came in in another email while I was typing. That does NOT mean the vertical 
element is the “counterpoise" to a long elevated wire (or more than one) a few 
feet off the ground.  Yes those wires may radiate, but probably not where you 
want them to, unless you want to talk straight up.

Like I’ve argued, if you want a wire to radiate, put in in the air.  And if you 
do that, there’s no point in having the AX1 in the system.  That’s all.

Over and out, SK :-)

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100


> On Aug 27, 2019, at 5:34 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> The "wire" is just the other 1/2 of the dipole.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Don Wilhelm]

It is easy to cancel the radiation from the 'counterpoise' - use 2 equal 
length wires running in opposite directions from the base.  The 
horizontal radiation from each will cancel, and all you have left is the 
loaded vertical radiator to radiate with vertical polarization.


If they are on the ground, the cancellation may not be as uniform.
For further information read the section on verticals in any Antenna 
Handbook - even my Antenna Handbook from the late 1950s cover it.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/27/2019 5:29 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

I don’t think I’m missing anything.  You’re basically arguing for an elevated 
counterpoise.  Of course the AX1 needs a counterpoise.  And I run an elevated 
counterpoise on most of my portable vertical antennas.

My 31’ portable wire works better than an AX1 most of the time.  It’s not 
always convenient or possible to put a wire in a tree.  And a wire counterpoise 
for your AX1, 3-5’ off the ground, straight as an arrow, won’t radiate much 
anyway (although it can help adjust the native imdedance of the 
AX1/counterpoise system).  When I walk to the dock, I take the AX1 and the 
recommended counterpoise.  The counterpoise goes over the end of the dock — no 
trees down there :-)

I’m not saying that an elevated counterpoise won’t work with the AX1, just that 
I’m having trouble getting my head around considering the wire as the main 
radiator, and the AX1 as a counterpoise???


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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Grant Youngman]

I don’t think I’m missing anything.  You’re basically arguing for an elevated 
counterpoise.  Of course the AX1 needs a counterpoise.  And I run an elevated 
counterpoise on most of my portable vertical antennas. 

My 31’ portable wire works better than an AX1 most of the time.  It’s not 
always convenient or possible to put a wire in a tree.  And a wire counterpoise 
for your AX1, 3-5’ off the ground, straight as an arrow, won’t radiate much 
anyway (although it can help adjust the native imdedance of the 
AX1/counterpoise system).  When I walk to the dock, I take the AX1 and the 
recommended counterpoise.  The counterpoise goes over the end of the dock — no 
trees down there :-)

I’m not saying that an elevated counterpoise won’t work with the AX1, just that 
I’m having trouble getting my head around considering the wire as the main 
radiator, and the AX1 as a counterpoise???

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100


> On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:31 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> The point you're missing is that the AX1 wants (needs) a wire counterpoise to 
> work very well at all, and since it's that counterpoise wire that is doing 
> most of the actual radiating you're better off trying to optimize what you do 
> with it.  I don't see how that is so difficult to understand, especially 
> since there have been several testimonials here that say the same thing ... 
> the AX1 works much better when you keep the wire "counterpoise" (actually the 
> primary radiator) as straight and in the clear as possible.
> 
> 73,
> Dave  AB7E
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[David Gilbert]

The point you're missing is that the AX1 wants (needs) a wire 
counterpoise to work very well at all, and since it's that counterpoise 
wire that is doing most of the actual radiating you're better off trying 
to optimize what you do with it.  I don't see how that is so difficult 
to understand, especially since there have been several testimonials 
here that say the same thing ... the AX1 works much better when you keep 
the wire "counterpoise" (actually the primary radiator) as straight and 
in the clear as possible.


73,
Dave  AB7E


On 8/27/2019 12:38 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

Not trying to start a disagreement here, but I don’t see the point.

If you want to run a wire antenna, then, good gracious, run a wire antenna.  
They work pretty well portable.  I carry two in my bag.  But I fail to see the 
rationale of using the AX1 as a “counterpoise”.
For quick low profile portable, the AX1 works as well as you can expect a very 
short loaded radiator to work.  For that purpose it’s easy, quick on the air, 
and does fine.

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100



I think users of the AX1 would be better off thinking of IT as the 
counterpoise, and making the most out of what they normally consider to be the 
counterpoise wire.


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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Jim Brown]

Dave's observation is about how the antenna actually works, as 
determined by Mother Nature, and, depending how the antenna is rigged, 
he's probably right. Antennas work by carrying RF current, any end fed 
radiator needs a counterpoise, which, because it's carrying the same RF 
current as the end fed radiator, CAN ALSO RADIATE. Indeed, this antenna, 
depending on how it's deployed, can be thought of as an off-center fed 
dipole.


Back when I lived in Chicago, I had another "ad hoc" antenna that was 
effective on 80 and 160M. My shack was on the second floor, the antenna 
was a loaded resonant dipole tuned to 80 and 40 that sort of worked on 
30 and 15, and was fed by vintage 75 ohm Belden "kilowatt twin lead." To 
use it on 160M, I ran two wires down to both sides of a wrought iron 
fence that ran around my front yard (both sides because it was broken by 
a gate). The wire and the fence functioned as a counterpoise, and the 
vertical wires radiated (and modified the resonance). As it turned out, 
that antenna loaded that way worked better on 80 than it did loaded as 
dipole, simply because the dipole wasn't very high (35-40 ft). I'm 
reminded that my buddy KK9H used the air conditioning ducts in his home 
as a counterpoise on 160M. We've worked several times since I moved to W6.


There are photos and a description of my Chicago antenna weedpatch 
(won't dignify it by calling it an antenna farm) in


http://k9yc.com/LimitedSpaceAntennasPPT.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

On 8/27/2019 12:38 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

But I fail to see the rationale of using the AX1 as a “counterpoise”.
For quick low profile portable, the AX1 works as well as you can expect a very 
short loaded radiator to work.  For that purpose it’s easy, quick on the air, 
and does fine.


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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Grant Youngman]

Not trying to start a disagreement here, but I don’t see the point.

If you want to run a wire antenna, then, good gracious, run a wire antenna.  
They work pretty well portable.  I carry two in my bag.  But I fail to see the 
rationale of using the AX1 as a “counterpoise”.
For quick low profile portable, the AX1 works as well as you can expect a very 
short loaded radiator to work.  For that purpose it’s easy, quick on the air, 
and does fine.

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100


>> 
>> I think users of the AX1 would be better off thinking of IT as the 
>> counterpoise, and making the most out of what they normally consider to be 
>> the counterpoise wire.
>> 
\
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Brian Hunt]

I think you'll find that for a short vertical radiator and a single 
counterpoise wire the maximum radiation is in the direction of the wire. EZNEC 
confirms this and I've tested it with a friend the length of California on 40 m 
where with the counterpoise pointed away from him I could barely copy him, 
flipping the wire 180° brought his signal up significantly. He saw the same 
thing on his end. 

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

> On Aug 26, 2019, at 18:26, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think users of the AX1 would be better off thinking of IT as the 
> counterpoise, and making the most out of what they normally consider to be 
> the counterpoise wire.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[David Gilbert]

Certainly true, and it's great for that, but a lot of the posts here 
have been about people using it for more than that ... like camping and 
restrictive locations.  I'm just saying those folks could get more out 
of it by treating it differently, and it would serve a very useful 
purpose in that function if they did.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/26/2019 10:38 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
It’s designed for /PM and stealth ops. In many other situations, of 
course, a longer/higher antenna will be more efficient.


73,
Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com 

On Aug 26, 2019, at 9:26 PM, David Gilbert > wrote:




I think users of the AX1 would be better off thinking of IT as the 
counterpoise, and making the most out of what they normally consider 
to be the counterpoise wire.


Look at it this way.  Unless you have a lot of current on the shield 
of the coax (in which case IT is doing a lot of radiating), roughly 
equal currents are going to try to go both ways from the feedpoint 
... into the AX1 and into the "counterpoise" wire.  The AX1 is 
typically physically shorter and it certainly has more loss, and 
since the radiated field is a function of net current and length, in 
most cases the counterpoise wire is at least trying to do the most 
radiating.  I say "in most cases" because the typical position of the 
counterpoise wire puts it along the ground or near some other 
RF-sucking structure.


In my opinion, probably the best way to use the AX1 is to put the 
counterpoise wire as straight, high, and in the clear as possible and 
let the AX1 act like the shortened other half of the circuit (i.e., 
the counterpoise).  If that isn't possible, make the counterpoise 
wire as straight and vertical as possible ... climb a tree and let 
the wire hang down.  ;)


If I had a good EZNEC model of the AX1 I'm pretty sure I could prove 
that assertion, but for those who have an AX1 I'd bet some field 
strength experiments would bear me out.


I'm not saying that the AX1 isn't a worthwhile investment, and I'm 
not saying it doesn't radiate.  I just think there are some 
misconceptions on what it's actually doing and how to best make use 
of it.


73,
Dave   AB7E




On 8/26/2019 3:51 PM, MaverickNH wrote:
I brought along a NanoVNA this trip and used it to array the two 
counterpoise
attached to my AX1 antenna - adjustments of counterpoise brought SWR 
down
from 9+ to <2. SNRs in the low ‘teens with a 200mW WSPRlite vs upper 
20s -

*inside* a hotel room with sealed windows.

As Wayne said, the AX1 is particular wrt configuration. When it’s 
good, it’s

very, very good, but when it’s bad, it’s terrible. The NanoVNA is pretty
cheap/light kit to add if you’re not bringing an ATU-enabled rig.

Bret/N4SRN


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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Wayne Burdick]

It’s designed for /PM and stealth ops. In many other situations, of course, a 
longer/higher antenna will be more efficient. 

73,
Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com

> On Aug 26, 2019, at 9:26 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think users of the AX1 would be better off thinking of IT as the 
> counterpoise, and making the most out of what they normally consider to be 
> the counterpoise wire.
> 
> Look at it this way.  Unless you have a lot of current on the shield of the 
> coax (in which case IT is doing a lot of radiating), roughly equal currents 
> are going to try to go both ways from the feedpoint ... into the AX1 and into 
> the "counterpoise" wire.  The AX1 is typically physically shorter and it 
> certainly has more loss, and since the radiated field is a function of net 
> current and length, in most cases the counterpoise wire is at least trying to 
> do the most radiating.  I say "in most cases" because the typical position of 
> the counterpoise wire puts it along the ground or near some other RF-sucking 
> structure.
> 
> In my opinion, probably the best way to use the AX1 is to put the 
> counterpoise wire as straight, high, and in the clear as possible and let the 
> AX1 act like the shortened other half of the circuit (i.e., the 
> counterpoise).  If that isn't possible, make the counterpoise wire as 
> straight and vertical as possible ... climb a tree and let the wire hang 
> down.  ;)
> 
> If I had a good EZNEC model of the AX1 I'm pretty sure I could prove that 
> assertion, but for those who have an AX1 I'd bet some field strength 
> experiments would bear me out.
> 
> I'm not saying that the AX1 isn't a worthwhile investment, and I'm not saying 
> it doesn't radiate.  I just think there are some misconceptions on what it's 
> actually doing and how to best make use of it.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8/26/2019 3:51 PM, MaverickNH wrote:
>> I brought along a NanoVNA this trip and used it to array the two counterpoise
>> attached to my AX1 antenna - adjustments of counterpoise brought SWR down
>> from 9+ to <2. SNRs in the low ‘teens with a 200mW WSPRlite vs upper 20s -
>> *inside* a hotel room with sealed windows.
>> 
>> As Wayne said, the AX1 is particular wrt configuration. When it’s good, it’s
>> very, very good, but when it’s bad, it’s terrible. The NanoVNA is pretty
>> cheap/light kit to add if you’re not bringing an ATU-enabled rig.
>> 
>> Bret/N4SRN
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[David Gilbert]

I think users of the AX1 would be better off thinking of IT as the 
counterpoise, and making the most out of what they normally consider to 
be the counterpoise wire.


Look at it this way.  Unless you have a lot of current on the shield of 
the coax (in which case IT is doing a lot of radiating), roughly equal 
currents are going to try to go both ways from the feedpoint ... into 
the AX1 and into the "counterpoise" wire.  The AX1 is typically 
physically shorter and it certainly has more loss, and since the 
radiated field is a function of net current and length, in most cases 
the counterpoise wire is at least trying to do the most radiating.  I 
say "in most cases" because the typical position of the counterpoise 
wire puts it along the ground or near some other RF-sucking structure.


In my opinion, probably the best way to use the AX1 is to put the 
counterpoise wire as straight, high, and in the clear as possible and 
let the AX1 act like the shortened other half of the circuit (i.e., the 
counterpoise).  If that isn't possible, make the counterpoise wire as 
straight and vertical as possible ... climb a tree and let the wire hang 
down.  ;)


If I had a good EZNEC model of the AX1 I'm pretty sure I could prove 
that assertion, but for those who have an AX1 I'd bet some field 
strength experiments would bear me out.


I'm not saying that the AX1 isn't a worthwhile investment, and I'm not 
saying it doesn't radiate.  I just think there are some misconceptions 
on what it's actually doing and how to best make use of it.


73,
Dave   AB7E




On 8/26/2019 3:51 PM, MaverickNH wrote:

I brought along a NanoVNA this trip and used it to array the two counterpoise
attached to my AX1 antenna - adjustments of counterpoise brought SWR down
from 9+ to <2. SNRs in the low ‘teens with a 200mW WSPRlite vs upper 20s -
*inside* a hotel room with sealed windows.

As Wayne said, the AX1 is particular wrt configuration. When it’s good, it’s
very, very good, but when it’s bad, it’s terrible. The NanoVNA is pretty
cheap/light kit to add if you’re not bringing an ATU-enabled rig.

Bret/N4SRN


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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[MaverickNH]

I brought along a NanoVNA this trip and used it to array the two counterpoise
attached to my AX1 antenna - adjustments of counterpoise brought SWR down
from 9+ to <2. SNRs in the low ‘teens with a 200mW WSPRlite vs upper 20s -
*inside* a hotel room with sealed windows.

As Wayne said, the AX1 is particular wrt configuration. When it’s good, it’s
very, very good, but when it’s bad, it’s terrible. The NanoVNA is pretty
cheap/light kit to add if you’re not bringing an ATU-enabled rig.

Bret/N4SRN



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Bill Johnson]

Let me add to this post  Elecraft quality, products and engineering are 
fabulous.  Yes, I have been drinking the cool-aid for a decade.  Love the 
entire deal.  Tired of much of the other manufacturers over the years. Have had 
issues only resolved by selling.  YMMV.  Mine doesn't.

Now for Eric and Wayne to keep providing us new products!

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:07 PM
To: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft ; Bert ; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

:-)  Buy US.  Buy Elecraft.  Plain and simple.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 4:42 PM
To: Bert ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

At the factory in California.

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 8/8/2019 1:53 PM, Bert wrote:
> Where is the original Elecraft AX1 antenna made?
>
> Bert VE3NR

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Bill Johnson]

:-)  Buy US.  Buy Elecraft.  Plain and simple.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 4:42 PM
To: Bert ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

At the factory in California.

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 8/8/2019 1:53 PM, Bert wrote:
> Where is the original Elecraft AX1 antenna made?
>
> Bert VE3NR

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

At the factory in California.

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 8/8/2019 1:53 PM, Bert wrote:

Where is the original Elecraft AX1 antenna made?

Bert VE3NR


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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[rv6amark via Elecraft]

Wow, Mark!  That was very interesting.  It may explain a lot of grossly 
inflated listings I've seen on eBay.  Thank you.Mark, KE6BB 
 Original message From: Mark Goldberg  
Date: 8/8/19  2:43 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: David Gilbert  
Cc: Elecraft Mailing List  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 
AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and 
https://www.thebalancesmb.com/how-money-laundering-works-on-ebay-414538773,MarkW7MLGOn
 Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 2:09 PM David Gilbert  wrote:>> It 
doesn't seem obvious at all to me that it's a knockoff.  There are> only 2 
units available and he's asking way too high a price for a knockoff.>> Dave   
AB7E>>> >> > On 8/8/2019 11:05 AM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:> >> I 
suspect that Wayne and Eric would take a big exception to the use> >> of the 
Elecraft name in their obvious knock-off product.> >>> >> 73 de Ray  K2ULR  KX3 
#211> >>>> __> 
Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> 
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> 
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Mark Goldberg]

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/how-money-laundering-works-on-ebay-4145387

73,

Mark
W7MLG

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 2:09 PM David Gilbert  wrote:

>
> It doesn't seem obvious at all to me that it's a knockoff.  There are
> only 2 units available and he's asking way too high a price for a knockoff.
>
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
> >
> > On 8/8/2019 11:05 AM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
> >> I suspect that Wayne and Eric would take a big exception to the use
> >> of the Elecraft name in their obvious knock-off product.
> >>
> >> 73 de Ray  K2ULR  KX3 #211
> >>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[David Gilbert]

It doesn't seem obvious at all to me that it's a knockoff.  There are 
only 2 units available and he's asking way too high a price for a knockoff.


Dave   AB7E




On 8/8/2019 11:05 AM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
I suspect that Wayne and Eric would take a big exception to the use 
of the Elecraft name in their obvious knock-off product.


73 de Ray  K2ULR  KX3 #211



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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Don Wilhelm]

I believe it is made in California - but I don't know about the whip.
Wayne will correct me if I am wrong on that.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/8/2019 4:53 PM, Bert wrote:

Where is the original Elecraft AX1 antenna made?

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Bert]

Where is the original Elecraft AX1 antenna made?

Bert VE3NR



On 8/8/2019 11:05 AM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:

I suspect that Wayne and Eric would take a big exception to the use of the 
Elecraft name in their obvious knock-off product.

73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211



-Original Message-
From: Grant Youngman 
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
Cc: elecraft 
Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2019 10:58 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

Makes you wonder if the Chinese seller is bonkers or just trolling … ??

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342


On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:04 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

Just seen on E-Bay.  Wow that's some mark-up!

73

Bob, K4TAX


<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elecraft-AX1-shortwave-antenna-for-KX3-KX2/123822525879?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1cd465cdb7:g:Py4AAOSw6S5dG~Ra&enc=AQAEAAAB0BPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qW3SbHW56wa%2BVvB6ZYG4CB0PET3EW8EaPBoaBSk2%2BhtiDa60cDC49iHmcShlSik%2FG5mfgsPvKbzbYNPmrifOP%2FpXHfx0yA%2F3f6HWv4LBmMvviuJB2VifQUJHDVOnE0jaYmCFfPj7ZItzfS24%2BKmHYotl5vcufib6K5wsoT%2Bj5Q%2FwikpIoNetCpgV566T4xJbEnDHmKk3kO7tjvN0Ch6BMzOrK%2FAXthO4p0Zn9RSQ%2F%2F390jGVwKEsgCR2eM%2Bt2kHg6VVtYqwb6Sxywl8kc1d%2Fa3o34ic8CP%2FpYZsiIqxu61XVvslzhRXsH9wciFTwokRT243w04YMcEis9kirVDAT%2FJkYD7s6lAnJtIaOB43rc0ohV7tP0U6oHk8Ap6P5T5lvfdFDEcQFJlmrSkvsy6kyhjXKcVPG1as0RDxQ4IDU0ApDgNnBnE9AMZAf3Zu7U1sml2osrPtb7GuDei4RR4pUadLEE8RoNPcaSua%2Fv8TrA3NAFdtM6Vnw%2B%2BAIrCzNqVUrXgmEi%2BA%2BTG%2FkjRmso3wb17XknAfOqs34R7RIf27Mh5tU2VMluAiorQI6h0MeMYFkS3JUnyaNo353Qpa9Kk%2BFAWt&checksum=123822525879ba44d9ea21b54918a6224bd446ce7f60>


   

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[David Gilbert]

Well, I actually have three reasons why I think the root of this 
discussion has been misguided:


1.  Typical portable operation is for casual fun while camping or just 
enjoying the outdoors.  Squeezing out every last dB doesn't quite fit 
that scenario.


2.  If you are trying to squeeze out every last dB for whatever reason, 
using an AX1 with 50 feet of coax and an extra tuner isn't the way to do 
it.  There are better choices for the same size and weight budget.


3.  And if you are using the AX1 with its very high Q, there are lots of 
other variables (length of counterpoise, terrain, height above ground, 
proximity to other detuning influences, etc) that will have far more 
impact on transmitted signal strength than a couple of extra dB loss due 
to SWR on the coax.  Wayne made pretty much the same comment in the 
context of SWR, but the same holds for signal strength.


Use whatever you want.  It makes no difference to me other than the 
misconceptions that come with it.  I've done a LOT of portable operation 
over the years, and my first priority has always been to put up the best 
antenna I could within whatever constraints I had at the time.  I don't 
own an AX1 but it appears to be a fine antenna for its intended purpose, 
which was essentially a backpacker antenna usable even for pedestrian 
mobile.   However, if I was on a camping trip (tent, cooler, etc) and 
wanted to get out better, I can think of better options.  I do own a KX2 
and I use it with a homebrew 20m vertical that I can easily carry in one 
hand for miles (five 4' sections of lightweight tubing, one of which is 
for elevating the radials) and set up in fewer minutes than I have fingers.


73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/8/2019 6:51 AM, w7...@cox.net wrote:

Dave And All,

  


Hmmm!  I don't quite understand that statement.  Why would you worry about
every dB at your home station but not necessarily be concerned on a portable
setup???  I guess maybe you are saying that, when operating portable, just
get the best antenna possible as opposed to a lesser one.  Well, that's
ideally true, but "you do with what you got"!  Whatever antenna you might
have for portable use, you want to squeeze every dB you can out of it!  I
tend to think it could be even more important when operating portable since
you already apt to be weaker, and that last dB may be the one that gets you
heard!  Home station operators might  actually ignore such issues since they
may already be more than loud enough to be heard.  QRP/portable operators
tend to not have that luxury.

  


Dave W7AQK

  

  

  

  

  


-

From: David Gilbert mailto:xda...@cis-broadband.com> >

  

  


Doesn't much matter.? You're still talking a 3 dB difference at most (50

feet vs 30 feet), and while I will be the first to argue the benefit of

every single dB for normal station operation (see

http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html), I don't understand the angxt

over that 3 dB for portable operation.? If that's actually a concern,

bring a better antenna.

  


73,

Dave?? AB7E

  


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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Raymond Sills via Elecraft]

I suspect that Wayne and Eric would take a big exception to the use of the 
Elecraft name in their obvious knock-off product.

73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211



-Original Message-
From: Grant Youngman 
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
Cc: elecraft 
Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2019 10:58 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

Makes you wonder if the Chinese seller is bonkers or just trolling … ??

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:04 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> Just seen on E-Bay.  Wow that's some mark-up!
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elecraft-AX1-shortwave-antenna-for-KX3-KX2/123822525879?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1cd465cdb7:g:Py4AAOSw6S5dG~Ra&enc=AQAEAAAB0BPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qW3SbHW56wa%2BVvB6ZYG4CB0PET3EW8EaPBoaBSk2%2BhtiDa60cDC49iHmcShlSik%2FG5mfgsPvKbzbYNPmrifOP%2FpXHfx0yA%2F3f6HWv4LBmMvviuJB2VifQUJHDVOnE0jaYmCFfPj7ZItzfS24%2BKmHYotl5vcufib6K5wsoT%2Bj5Q%2FwikpIoNetCpgV566T4xJbEnDHmKk3kO7tjvN0Ch6BMzOrK%2FAXthO4p0Zn9RSQ%2F%2F390jGVwKEsgCR2eM%2Bt2kHg6VVtYqwb6Sxywl8kc1d%2Fa3o34ic8CP%2FpYZsiIqxu61XVvslzhRXsH9wciFTwokRT243w04YMcEis9kirVDAT%2FJkYD7s6lAnJtIaOB43rc0ohV7tP0U6oHk8Ap6P5T5lvfdFDEcQFJlmrSkvsy6kyhjXKcVPG1as0RDxQ4IDU0ApDgNnBnE9AMZAf3Zu7U1sml2osrPtb7GuDei4RR4pUadLEE8RoNPcaSua%2Fv8TrA3NAFdtM6Vnw%2B%2BAIrCzNqVUrXgmEi%2BA%2BTG%2FkjRmso3wb17XknAfOqs34R7RIf27Mh5tU2VMluAiorQI6h0MeMYFkS3JUnyaNo353Qpa9Kk%2BFAWt&checksum=123822525879ba44d9ea21b54918a6224bd446ce7f60>
> 
> 
>  
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Grant Youngman]

Makes you wonder if the Chinese seller is bonkers or just trolling … ??

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:04 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> Just seen on E-Bay.  Wow that's some mark-up!
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Just seen on E-Bay.  Wow that's some mark-up!

73

Bob, K4TAX





 SPONSORED
 Elecraft AX1 shortwave antenna for KX3/KX2
 




Brand New
$227.99
From China
Was:Previous Price$239.99
Buy It Now
+$9.99 shipping







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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and

[w7aqk]

Dave And All,

 

Hmmm!  I don't quite understand that statement.  Why would you worry about
every dB at your home station but not necessarily be concerned on a portable
setup???  I guess maybe you are saying that, when operating portable, just
get the best antenna possible as opposed to a lesser one.  Well, that's
ideally true, but "you do with what you got"!  Whatever antenna you might
have for portable use, you want to squeeze every dB you can out of it!  I
tend to think it could be even more important when operating portable since
you already apt to be weaker, and that last dB may be the one that gets you
heard!  Home station operators might  actually ignore such issues since they
may already be more than loud enough to be heard.  QRP/portable operators
tend to not have that luxury.  

 

Dave W7AQK

 

 

 

 

 

-

From: David Gilbert mailto:xda...@cis-broadband.com> >

 

 

Doesn't much matter.? You're still talking a 3 dB difference at most (50 

feet vs 30 feet), and while I will be the first to argue the benefit of 

every single dB for normal station operation (see 

http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html), I don't understand the angxt 

over that 3 dB for portable operation.? If that's actually a concern, 

bring a better antenna.

 

73,

Dave?? AB7E

 

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[David Gilbert]

Then you'd be using the T1 to partially drop the SWR on the coax, but it 
still wouldn't be anything close to 1:1 unless the T1 has a much broader 
range than the tuner in the KX2.  You'd still have some additional coax 
loss due to SWR (but less loss, of course) and you'd still need the 
tuner in the KX2 to get a match that wasn't a problem for the KX2.


I have to wonder how much loss there is in two tuners each trying to 
match a really bad load, and it still seems to me that the better 
approach if you're worried about every dB is to use a better antenna.  
Using a really short whip like the AX1 with 50 feet of coax and two 
tuners seems like a poor choice of tradeoffs.


73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/7/2019 6:39 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The SWR could easily exceed 15:1, depending on the operating frequency (short 
loaded whips can be very narrow banded) and other factors that apply to 
portable operation such as radial configuration, ground characteristics, and 
antenna height.

Even 2 dB matters when you're using QRP.

Wayne
N6KR



On Aug 7, 2019, at 5:13 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:


Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.

Let's look at this realistically:

1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.  Let's 
assume it's good to 15:1.

2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like RG-8X.

3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is not 
much more than 30 feet long.

4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending most 
of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.

30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those 
frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss due to a 
15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.

http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a remote 
tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply bringing a somewhat 
larger portable antenna.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/7/2019 3:57 PM, Phil Hystad via Elecraft wrote:

Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about the coax loss 
between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter which one it is (i.e. 
AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires, Buddipole, etc.).

But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of thinking about 
selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my KX1 almost three years ago.

phil, K7PEH


On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax were 
more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from the target 
operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.

Wayne





On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

Bret,

Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the coax.

Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:

It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly to
the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
clear obstructions. Thoughts?

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Wayne Burdick]

The SWR could easily exceed 15:1, depending on the operating frequency (short 
loaded whips can be very narrow banded) and other factors that apply to 
portable operation such as radial configuration, ground characteristics, and 
antenna height. 

Even 2 dB matters when you're using QRP.

Wayne
N6KR


> On Aug 7, 2019, at 5:13 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.
> 
> Let's look at this realistically:
> 
> 1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.  Let's 
> assume it's good to 15:1.
> 
> 2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like 
> RG-8X.
> 
> 3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is not 
> much more than 30 feet long.
> 
> 4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending most 
> of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.
> 
> 30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those 
> frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss due to 
> a 15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.
> 
> http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a remote 
> tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply bringing a 
> somewhat larger portable antenna.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/7/2019 3:57 PM, Phil Hystad via Elecraft wrote:
>> Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about the coax 
>> loss between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter which one it is 
>> (i.e. AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires, Buddipole, etc.).
>> 
>> But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of thinking 
>> about selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my KX1 almost three 
>> years ago.
>> 
>> phil, K7PEH
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax 
>>> were more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from 
>>> the target operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.
>>> 
>>> Wayne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
 
 Bret,
 
 Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the 
 coax.
 
 Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:
> It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly 
> to
> the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
> antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
> clear obstructions. Thoughts?
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[David Gilbert]

Scroll down to the original post.  We were talking about a KX2 with an 
internal antenna tuner.  Presumably the tuner works as it should to 
present the proper load to the finals.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/7/2019 5:29 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:
You need to take into account the radio finals. When the SWR is high, 
My KX3 cuts back because it gets too much reflected power. I expect 
the KX3, and in fact any other radio or amplifier is similar. 15:1 is 
about half the power coming back.


Regards,

Mark
W7MLG


On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 5:14 PM David Gilbert > wrote:



Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.

Let's look at this realistically:

1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.
Let's assume it's good to 15:1.

2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable
operation like
RG-8X.

3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating
portable is
not much more than 30 feet long.

4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're
spending
most of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.

30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at
those
frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss
due to a 15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.

http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a
remote tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply
bringing a somewhat larger portable antenna.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/7/2019 3:57 PM, Phil Hystad via Elecraft wrote:
> Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about
the coax loss between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter
which one it is (i.e. AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires,
Buddipole, etc.).
>
> But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of
thinking about selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my
KX1 almost three years ago.
>
> phil, K7PEH
>
>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick mailto:n...@elecraft.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if
the coax were more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance
well removed from the target operating frequency. Short whips can
be extremely narrow-banded.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm
mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bret,
>>>
>>> Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential
loss in the coax.
>>>
>>> Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:
 It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try
attaching directly to
 the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU
25-40ft from the
 antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run
that RG58 to
 clear obstructions. Thoughts?



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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Phil Hystad via Elecraft]

Some points…

“…dragging along a remote tuner”

Surely you are kidding or you get the award for hyperbole of the day.  The T1 
fits in my shirt pocket!  It is zero effort to bring — no “dragging” required.

And, I operate with 50 feet of coax because carrying multiple different lengths 
of coax on various trips where I operate portable does get into dragging.  
There have been some situations where 50 feet has not been enough such as in 
one national park where the convenient picnic table was quite a distance from 
the nearest convenient tree.

phil, K7PEH

> On Aug 7, 2019, at 5:13 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.
> 
> Let's look at this realistically:
> 
> 1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.  Let's 
> assume it's good to 15:1.
> 
> 2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like 
> RG-8X.
> 
> 3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is not 
> much more than 30 feet long.
> 
> 4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending most 
> of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.
> 
> 30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those 
> frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss due to 
> a 15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.
> 
> http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a remote 
> tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply bringing a 
> somewhat larger portable antenna.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/7/2019 3:57 PM, Phil Hystad via Elecraft wrote:
>> Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about the coax 
>> loss between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter which one it is 
>> (i.e. AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires, Buddipole, etc.).
>> 
>> But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of thinking 
>> about selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my KX1 almost three 
>> years ago.
>> 
>> phil, K7PEH
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax 
>>> were more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from 
>>> the target operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.
>>> 
>>> Wayne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
 
 Bret,
 
 Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the 
 coax.
 
 Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:
> It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly 
> to
> the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
> antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
> clear obstructions. Thoughts?
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[David Gilbert]

Doesn't much matter.  You're still talking a 3 dB difference at most (50 
feet vs 30 feet), and while I will be the first to argue the benefit of 
every single dB for normal station operation (see 
http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html), I don't understand the angxt 
over that 3 dB for portable operation.  If that's actually a concern, 
bring a better antenna.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/7/2019 5:34 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

Some points…

“…dragging along a remote tuner”

Surely you are kidding or you get the award for hyperbole of the day.  The T1 
fits in my shirt pocket!  It is zero effort to bring — no “dragging” required.

And, I operate with 50 feet of coax because carrying multiple different lengths 
of coax on various trips where I operate portable does get into dragging.  
There have been some situations where 50 feet has not been enough such as in 
one national park where the convenient picnic table was quite a distance from 
the nearest convenient tree.

phil, K7PEH


On Aug 7, 2019, at 5:13 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:


Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.

Let's look at this realistically:

1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.  Let's 
assume it's good to 15:1.

2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like RG-8X.

3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is not 
much more than 30 feet long.

4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending most 
of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.

30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those 
frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss due to a 
15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.

http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a remote 
tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply bringing a somewhat 
larger portable antenna.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/7/2019 3:57 PM, Phil Hystad via Elecraft wrote:

Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about the coax loss 
between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter which one it is (i.e. 
AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires, Buddipole, etc.).

But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of thinking about 
selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my KX1 almost three years ago.

phil, K7PEH


On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax were 
more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from the target 
operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.

Wayne





On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

Bret,

Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the coax.

Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:

It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly to
the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
clear obstructions. Thoughts?

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Mark Goldberg]

Yeah, i didn't catch that he was going to use the internal tuner and just
forgo the external one at the other end of the coax.

In that case, I agree with Dave.

73,

Mark
W7MLG


On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 6:19 PM Wes  wrote:

> I haven't been following this thread closely but I think Dave makes good
> points.  As to the final fold-back, if I waded through this correctly, I
> understand that the OP has the built-in tuner in his KX2.  That solves
> that issue.
>
> BTW, SWR = 15:1 is a return loss of about 1.1 dB, not 3 dB.
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
>
> On 8/7/2019 5:29 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:
> > You need to take into account the radio finals. When the SWR is high, My
> > KX3 cuts back because it gets too much reflected power. I expect the KX3,
> > and in fact any other radio or amplifier is similar. 15:1 is about half
> the
> > power coming back.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mark
> > W7MLG
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 5:14 PM David Gilbert 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.
> >>
> >> Let's look at this realistically:
> >>
> >> 1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.
> >> Let's assume it's good to 15:1.
> >>
> >> 2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like
> >> RG-8X.
> >>
> >> 3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is
> >> not much more than 30 feet long.
> >>
> >> 4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending
> >> most of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.
> >>
> >> 30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those
> >> frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss
> >> due to a 15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.
> >>
> >> http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm
> >>
> >> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a
> >> remote tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply
> >> bringing a somewhat larger portable antenna.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Dave   AB7E
> >>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Wes]

I haven't been following this thread closely but I think Dave makes good 
points.  As to the final fold-back, if I waded through this correctly, I 
understand that the OP has the built-in tuner in his KX2.  That solves that issue.


BTW, SWR = 15:1 is a return loss of about 1.1 dB, not 3 dB.

Wes  N7WS


On 8/7/2019 5:29 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:

You need to take into account the radio finals. When the SWR is high, My
KX3 cuts back because it gets too much reflected power. I expect the KX3,
and in fact any other radio or amplifier is similar. 15:1 is about half the
power coming back.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG


On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 5:14 PM David Gilbert 
wrote:


Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.

Let's look at this realistically:

1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.
Let's assume it's good to 15:1.

2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like
RG-8X.

3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is
not much more than 30 feet long.

4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending
most of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.

30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those
frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss
due to a 15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.

http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a
remote tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply
bringing a somewhat larger portable antenna.

73,
Dave   AB7E



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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Mark Goldberg]

You need to take into account the radio finals. When the SWR is high, My
KX3 cuts back because it gets too much reflected power. I expect the KX3,
and in fact any other radio or amplifier is similar. 15:1 is about half the
power coming back.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG


On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 5:14 PM David Gilbert 
wrote:

>
> Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.
>
> Let's look at this realistically:
>
> 1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.
> Let's assume it's good to 15:1.
>
> 2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like
> RG-8X.
>
> 3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is
> not much more than 30 feet long.
>
> 4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending
> most of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.
>
> 30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those
> frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss
> due to a 15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.
>
> http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm
>
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a
> remote tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply
> bringing a somewhat larger portable antenna.
>
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
>
> On 8/7/2019 3:57 PM, Phil Hystad via Elecraft wrote:
> > Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about the coax
> loss between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter which one it is
> (i.e. AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires, Buddipole, etc.).
> >
> > But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of thinking
> about selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my KX1 almost three
> years ago.
> >
> > phil, K7PEH
> >
> >> On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> >>
> >> I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax
> were more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from
> the target operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.
> >>
> >> Wayne
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Bret,
> >>>
> >>> Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in
> the coax.
> >>>
> >>> Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Don W3FPR
> >>>
> >>> On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:
>  It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching
> directly to
>  the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from
> the
>  antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58
> to
>  clear obstructions. Thoughts?
> >>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[David Gilbert]

Rather little of this discussion makes sense to me.

Let's look at this realistically:

1.  The antenna tuner in the KX2 is rated to be good up to 10:1 SWR.  
Let's assume it's good to 15:1.


2.  Let's assume you're using a decent cable for portable operation like 
RG-8X.


3.  Let's assume that the length of your coax when operating portable is 
not much more than 30 feet long.


4.  Let's assume under the current solar flux conditions you're spending 
most of your time on 20m or lower in frequency.


30 feet of RG-8X has a loss of 0.4 db or less for that length at those 
frequencies, and per the charts in the link below the additional loss 
due to a 15:1 SWR is no more than 2 dB.


http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-transmission-line2.htm

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that justifies dragging along a 
remote tuner.  You could recover a heck of a lot more dB by simply 
bringing a somewhat larger portable antenna.


73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/7/2019 3:57 PM, Phil Hystad via Elecraft wrote:

Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about the coax loss 
between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter which one it is (i.e. 
AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires, Buddipole, etc.).

But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of thinking about 
selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my KX1 almost three years ago.

phil, K7PEH


On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax were 
more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from the target 
operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.

Wayne





On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

Bret,

Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the coax.

Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:

It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly to
the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
clear obstructions. Thoughts?

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Phil Hystad via Elecraft]

Sounds like an idea worth trying — I have always wondered about the coax loss 
between my KX3/KX2 and my portable antenna no matter which one it is (i.e. 
AX-1, Wire and counterpoise wires, Buddipole, etc.).

But, really glad I did not sell the T1 on several occasions of thinking about 
selling it.  I have not used my T1 since I sold my KX1 almost three years ago.

phil, K7PEH

> On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax were 
> more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from the 
> target operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> 
>> Bret,
>> 
>> Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the 
>> coax.
>> 
>> Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:
>>> It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly to
>>> the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
>>> antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
>>> clear obstructions. Thoughts?
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Wayne Burdick]

I think a T1 at the base would make a noticeable difference if the coax were 
more than a few feet long and the whip's resonance well removed from the target 
operating frequency. Short whips can be extremely narrow-banded.

Wayne




> On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Bret,
> 
> Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the coax.
> 
> Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:
>> It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly to
>> the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
>> antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
>> clear obstructions. Thoughts?
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Don Wilhelm]

Bret,

Yes, the T1 mounted at the antenna will reduce the potential loss in the 
coax.


Will you notice the difference?  Maybe or maybe not.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/7/2019 7:54 AM, MaverickNH wrote:

It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly to
the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
clear obstructions. Thoughts?

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[MaverickNH]

It comes to mind I have an Elecraft T1 ATU I might try attaching directly to
the base of the AX1 rather than relying on the KX2 ATU 25-40ft from the
antenna. I try to operate closer but sometimes have to run that RG58 to
clear obstructions. Thoughts?

Bret/N4SRN



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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[Bill Johnson]

Me, Too!

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of J Chester
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 1:39 AM
To: David Thompson 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; MaverickNH 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

Yes, David,
Probably early September
Joe

> On 6 Aug 2019, at 00:03, David Thompson  wrote:
> 
> Joe…
> 
> Will you have reprints available? I would like to see a copy of the article.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> David Thompson, AG7TX
> Jack of All Trades
> Master of None
> dbthomp...@me.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 5, 2019, at 02:21, J Chester  wrote:
>> 
>> Bret,
>> 
>> I’ve just submitted a review of the AX1 to Practical Wireless magazine, 
>> which should appear be in the October issue, published end of September.
>> 
>> I found it worked well on the tripod. The key to getting the most out 
>> of it is to let the counterpoise wire fall to the ground about 3 ft 
>> or so from the radiator. As a very short base loaded antenna, I don’t 
>> think an extra foot or so of height will make a lot of difference. 
>> Your extra counterpoise wires is probably the best thing to do. More 
>> details in the article
>> 
>> 73 de Joe MW1MWD
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4 Aug 2019, at 18:20, MaverickNH  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've got my little 20m AX1 and 3 tuned counterpoise wires on a 4ft 
>>> tripod with wires extending to plastic chairs 3ft off the ground 
>>> too. If I got that whip up to 2m above ground with sloping wires, would I 
>>> gain much?
>>> 
>>> Bret/N4SRN
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>>> __
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>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>>> jpc-ra...@outlook.com
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>> dbthomp...@me.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[J Chester]

Yes, David,
Probably early September
Joe

> On 6 Aug 2019, at 00:03, David Thompson  wrote:
> 
> Joe…
> 
> Will you have reprints available? I would like to see a copy of the article.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> David Thompson, AG7TX
> Jack of All Trades
> Master of None
> dbthomp...@me.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 5, 2019, at 02:21, J Chester  wrote:
>> 
>> Bret,
>> 
>> I’ve just submitted a review of the AX1 to Practical Wireless magazine, 
>> which should appear be in the October issue, published end of September.
>> 
>> I found it worked well on the tripod. The key to getting the most out of it 
>> is to let the counterpoise wire fall to the ground about 3 ft or so from the 
>> radiator. As a very short base loaded antenna, I don’t think an extra foot 
>> or so of height will make a lot of difference. Your extra counterpoise wires 
>> is probably the best thing to do. More details in the article
>> 
>> 73 de Joe MW1MWD
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4 Aug 2019, at 18:20, MaverickNH  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've got my little 20m AX1 and 3 tuned counterpoise wires on a 4ft tripod
>>> with wires extending to plastic chairs 3ft off the ground too. If I got that
>>> whip up to 2m above ground with sloping wires, would I gain much?
>>> 
>>> Bret/N4SRN
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> Message delivered to jpc-ra...@outlook.com 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[David Thompson via Elecraft]

Joe…

Will you have reprints available? I would like to see a copy of the article.

Thanks!

David Thompson, AG7TX
Jack of All Trades
Master of None
dbthomp...@me.com




> On Aug 5, 2019, at 02:21, J Chester  wrote:
> 
> Bret,
> 
> I’ve just submitted a review of the AX1 to Practical Wireless magazine, which 
> should appear be in the October issue, published end of September.
> 
> I found it worked well on the tripod. The key to getting the most out of it 
> is to let the counterpoise wire fall to the ground about 3 ft or so from the 
> radiator. As a very short base loaded antenna, I don’t think an extra foot or 
> so of height will make a lot of difference. Your extra counterpoise wires is 
> probably the best thing to do. More details in the article
> 
> 73 de Joe MW1MWD
> 
> 
>> On 4 Aug 2019, at 18:20, MaverickNH  wrote:
>> 
>> I've got my little 20m AX1 and 3 tuned counterpoise wires on a 4ft tripod
>> with wires extending to plastic chairs 3ft off the ground too. If I got that
>> whip up to 2m above ground with sloping wires, would I gain much?
>> 
>> Bret/N4SRN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>> __
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>> 
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to jpc-ra...@outlook.com 
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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[MaverickNH]

Thank you Joe! I shall look forward to reading your article soon.

Bret/N4SRN



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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna - Elevation and Counterpoise?

[J Chester]

Bret,

I’ve just submitted a review of the AX1 to Practical Wireless magazine, which 
should appear be in the October issue, published end of September.

I found it worked well on the tripod. The key to getting the most out of it is 
to let the counterpoise wire fall to the ground about 3 ft or so from the 
radiator. As a very short base loaded antenna, I don’t think an extra foot or 
so of height will make a lot of difference. Your extra counterpoise wires is 
probably the best thing to do. More details in the article

73 de Joe MW1MWD


> On 4 Aug 2019, at 18:20, MaverickNH  wrote:
> 
> I've got my little 20m AX1 and 3 tuned counterpoise wires on a 4ft tripod
> with wires extending to plastic chairs 3ft off the ground too. If I got that
> whip up to 2m above ground with sloping wires, would I gain much?
> 
> Bret/N4SRN
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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