Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Robert G Strickland]

Bob...

Yes, I have used your comments to infuse a new energy into the business 
of "speeding up." At the moment, still using 5-letter groups and Rufz, I 
start with the "dot" letters, e/h/i/s with U & V, at around 20wpm and 
spends several trial at that task. Then, the full alphabet at 30wpm with 
the previously mentioned "ignoring the first letter." As you no doubt 
expect, the 5-ltr groups at 30wpm are going better. I increase the speed 
one ltr/min per trial up to around 35wpm at which point there are more 
mistakes. Then, I drop back to 30wpm and start the process over again. I 
do as many sequences as can comfortably fit into your 10min window. It's 
fun, and I imagine that speed is picking up. Thanks for your 
contributions to the discussion.


Again, thanks to Elecraft for making space for this thread.

...robert

On 12/8/2015 05:06, Robert Harmon wrote:

Robert,

Human nature being what it is all of us put what we think is beneficial
"time in the saddle"
on the air but we become complacent and migrate back to easier copy and
we are kidding
ourselves and not really exercising our copying speed abilities. Ask me
how I know this  :-)
Time in the saddle is not the nirvana for higher speed CW.
Try the exercise Robert then report back.  It is only 10 minutes a day.
As a sideline to being a ARRL VEC, I teach morse code to new hams and
hams that want to improve their CW skills.  I cant take credit for this
exercise.  I finally took
the advice from other high speed ops and found it to be the most
efficient and fastest
method for me in advancing my copy speed.  It is necessary to spend ten
minutes
in quality training time a day for a few weeks.  (I wouldnt call that
intense, hihi)
Then enjoy "time in the saddle"  but do your 10 minutes regularly for
awhile and see what happens. !


73,
Bob
K6UJ





On 12/7/15 5:27 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:

Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw
proficiency has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts
on the subject. Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the
practice message, then my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could
be stated as follows. Which is the quickest way to achieve some target
speed: to start the group at a speed where only one/two character are
correct, or to start where three/four are correct? I have no doubt
that with the regular and intense "concentration" that Bob advocates,
any method [within common sense limits] will result in higher copying
speed. That said, which starting point is going to get the operator to
the target speed the quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can
comfortably copy at speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old
school" in that many learned in the military and have been at it a
very long time. I have to believe that their speed developed over time
with continuous usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An
interesting "experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy
at 20wpm, divide them into the two approaches being discussed and
"measure" how long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm.
A human factors issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for
frustration. Starting with only one character correct out of five may
be pretty daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But,
that's a separate issue.

Enjoying and learning from the discussion. Thanks Elecraft!

...robert

On 12/6/2015 08:00, Robert Harmon wrote:


Bill,

We are not discussing entry level code learning.  We are discussing
increasing your code speed on receive.  And speed is vitally important !
K7QQ is not the only one that can copy high speed CW, there are many of
us out here.  Transitioning to higher speed copy can be done through
systematic and regular exercise.  I have been a CW operator for over
40 years and it wasn't until fairly late in the game that I accepted the
advice from several high speed ops on how to progress past mediocre copy
speed.  ( I will share this below)
First we need to realize there are two distinct types of training for
CW.  The first is developing your rote memorization skills for learning
the characters.  I recommend the Farnsworth method for this. With
Farnsworth the characters are sent faster than the words.  For instance
at 10 wpm each character is sent at 20 wpm but enough time is added to
slow down the rate to 10 wpm.  The ARRL adopted this method years ago
for their morse code training materials and the W1AW morse
transmissions.  For example when W1AW is sending at 18 wpm the
characters are sent at 20 wpm.

Now to increase your speed you need to approach your training
differently. (which is the subject of Roberts
original post)  There are different variations of the training used to
increase your speed but they all have a
common denominator.  They all in some form or another introduce copying
at a faster speed (go figure)

Here is what I found to be most effective method for me I learned from
other ops.
Its great to 

Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Bob]

I believe that to be true.  Years ago would ask if people played any instruments 
when teaching for the Novice ticket and if they did they seemed to pick it up 
faster.


I attributed it to recognition or rhythm patterns. Two examples are Q is "here 
comes the bride" and V as from Beethoven's 5th symphony.   No proof but that was 
a theory.   And I do not claim credit for that either,  may have been told to me 
back them.


73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR


On 12/8/2015 12:11 AM, Robert Harmon wrote:

I noticed that musically inclined folks seem to learn morse quicker.
I wonder why that is ?
BTW I hope we havent been on this non elecraft topic too long on the forum !

73,
Bob
K6UJ


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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Robert G Strickland]

Don...

For sure, individual differences make for a big difference, both in the 
rate of learning and the appropriateness of any one approach. I think we 
all agree that "stretching your current copying speed" is the only way 
to get faster. That's certainly my experience. I think my curiosity 
comes down to how much "stretch" is the sweet spot [individual 
difference aside]. Lots of stretch - few characters/words copied, versus 
some stretch - most characters/words copied.


Speaking of individual factors... I was just practicing with Rufz and 
noticed how long I "hang" on the first character which inevitably leads 
to subsequent errors. So, I pushed myself to almost "ignore" the first 
character and move right along. Overall error rate dropped 
significantly. So, yes, lots going on. Nothing beats practicing, for 
sure. Have a good day.


...robert

On 12/8/2015 01:46, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Robert,

What is missing is that each person learns at a different level and
pace.  Each of us has our brains "wired differently".
In other words, what will work well for one person does not mean that it
will work well for all.
The quickest way to increasing CW speed is to get on the air and start
copying stations that stretch your current copying speed.  In other
words, push yourself to higher speeds even if you cannot copy everything.
ARRL Code Practice is good up to 35 WPM, so try that, but on the air
conversations may drop you back to 25 WPM because of CW being sent
imperfectly.
When you can copy imperfect code (from a bug or keyer without perfect
spacing), then you have 'arrived'.

There is no substitute for practice - I advocate the 10 minutes a day at
trying to copy above your comfortable speed limit.  More time than that
leads to frustration.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/7/2015 8:27 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:

Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw
proficiency has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts
on the subject. Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the
practice message, then my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could
be stated as follows. Which is the quickest way to achieve some target
speed: to start the group at a speed where only one/two character are
correct, or to start where three/four are correct? I have no doubt
that with the regular and intense "concentration" that Bob advocates,
any method [within common sense limits] will result in higher copying
speed. That said, which starting point is going to get the operator to
the target speed the quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can
comfortably copy at speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old
school" in that many learned in the military and have been at it a
very long time. I have to believe that their speed developed over time
with continuous usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An
interesting "experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy
at 20wpm, divide them into the two approaches being discussed and
"measure" how long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm.
A human factors issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for
frustration. Starting with only one character correct out of five may
be pretty daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But,
that's a separate issue.





--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Kevin Stover]

Absolutely there are differences in how peoples brains are wired.

My brother got his license 15 years ago.

He was a music major and is a band director, all of the rigs in his 
shack have the side tone set to 440 Hz, A above middle C. It's been a 
musical tuning standard for ages. Once he got the tone of the cw being 
received and sent set to a standard he knows quite well his CW abilities 
just exploded. He moved past me like white lightning in his copy 
ability. He's doing 40 wpm without breaking a sweat, is net control for 
the Iowa 80m CW net and mastered the Vibroplex bug inside of a month.


I'm coming up on my 25th year licensed.
I'm an IT guy, network engineer.
I've always been math/logic and  mechanically inclined.
I can sub-net IPV4 networks in my head.
I struggled learning code. I bought both the ARRL and 73 magazine tapes.
My first try on a morse exam was a flaming failure. 5 wpm test set up in 
a huge auditorium at the local hospital.
We all sat at the front listening to a boom box...and the echo off the 
back wall 60' away. I locked up.
I did finally learn enough to pass the 13wpm test and later the 20 but 
it took a lot of work.
I found the Koch method and the G4FON software 10 years ago. I can now 
do 30 wpm comfortably, 40 in a contest.


The Vibroplex bug my wife bought me still taunts and insults me. I'm 
much more comfortable with the single lever paddle I have and my Winkey USB.



On 12/7/2015 8:12 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:

Don...

For sure, individual differences make for a big difference, both in 
the rate of learning and the appropriateness of any one approach. I 
think we all agree that "stretching your current copying speed" is the 
only way to get faster. That's certainly my experience. I think my 
curiosity comes down to how much "stretch" is the sweet spot 
[individual difference aside]. Lots of stretch - few characters/words 
copied, versus some stretch - most characters/words copied.


Speaking of individual factors... I was just practicing with Rufz and 
noticed how long I "hang" on the first character which inevitably 
leads to subsequent errors. So, I pushed myself to almost "ignore" the 
first character and move right along. Overall error rate dropped 
significantly. So, yes, lots going on. Nothing beats practicing, for 
sure. Have a good day.


...robert


--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Robert G Strickland]

Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw proficiency 
has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts on the subject. 
Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the practice message, then 
my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could be stated as follows. 
Which is the quickest way to achieve some target speed: to start the 
group at a speed where only one/two character are correct, or to start 
where three/four are correct? I have no doubt that with the regular and 
intense "concentration" that Bob advocates, any method [within common 
sense limits] will result in higher copying speed. That said, which 
starting point is going to get the operator to the target speed the 
quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can comfortably copy at 
speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old school" in that many 
learned in the military and have been at it a very long time. I have to 
believe that their speed developed over time with continuous 
usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An interesting 
"experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy at 20wpm, 
divide them into the two approaches being discussed and "measure" how 
long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm. A human factors 
issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for frustration. 
Starting with only one character correct out of five may be pretty 
daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But, that's a separate 
issue.


Enjoying and learning from the discussion. Thanks Elecraft!

...robert

On 12/6/2015 08:00, Robert Harmon wrote:


Bill,

We are not discussing entry level code learning.  We are discussing
increasing your code speed on receive.  And speed is vitally important !
K7QQ is not the only one that can copy high speed CW, there are many of
us out here.  Transitioning to higher speed copy can be done through
systematic and regular exercise.  I have been a CW operator for over
40 years and it wasn't until fairly late in the game that I accepted the
advice from several high speed ops on how to progress past mediocre copy
speed.  ( I will share this below)
First we need to realize there are two distinct types of training for
CW.  The first is developing your rote memorization skills for learning
the characters.  I recommend the Farnsworth method for this.  With
Farnsworth the characters are sent faster than the words.  For instance
at 10 wpm each character is sent at 20 wpm but enough time is added to
slow down the rate to 10 wpm.  The ARRL adopted this method years ago
for their morse code training materials and the W1AW morse
transmissions.  For example when W1AW is sending at 18 wpm the
characters are sent at 20 wpm.

Now to increase your speed you need to approach your training
differently. (which is the subject of Roberts
original post)  There are different variations of the training used to
increase your speed but they all have a
common denominator.  They all in some form or another introduce copying
at a faster speed (go figure)

Here is what I found to be most effective method for me I learned from
other ops.
Its great to spend time in the saddle copying QSO's in which your
current copying speed will allow, but to really increase your copying
speed you need to spend some time exercising your copying abilities each
day by practice copying ONLY at speeds faster than you can comfortably
copy.  You wont increase your copying speed by always copying at the
same comfortable speeds.  Practice at a speed where you are only able to
copy one or two characters in each word. Concentrate !!   Do this for
only 10 minutes each day.  If you are really concentrating you will find
10 minutes is about when you are ready to throw in the towel for the day
anyway Later on after you find you are able to copy about half of the
overall text then increase the speed back to where you can only copy one
or two characters in each word. (This isn't supposed to be easy this is
a training exercise.)
Try this only ten minutes a day and see what happens ! Also this needs
to be practiced regularly, every day and if you miss a day, no worries,
jump back in.   Many hams never improve their speed and are content when
they reach around 20 wpm max.  In many chasing DX and contest operating
CW activities it gives you an big advantage to be able to operate at
higher speeds.  We have all heard the high speed ops during a contest
and marvel at how fast their contacts go by.  It is great to be able to
match their speed and grab a contact !  Its not that difficult folks,
just 10 minutes a day of concentrated practice.  As you are gaining your
speed don't get frustrated over losing a word or words when you are in a
CW QSO and losing the intelligibility of the conversation,  that happens
to all of us and will be remedied when you copying speed is increased.
Lastly, you will with practice, increase your "comfortable" copy speed
to upwards of 30 to 35 wpm and more.
You will be able to really 

Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Don Wilhelm]

Robert,

What is missing is that each person learns at a different level and 
pace.  Each of us has our brains "wired differently".
In other words, what will work well for one person does not mean that it 
will work well for all.
The quickest way to increasing CW speed is to get on the air and start 
copying stations that stretch your current copying speed.  In other 
words, push yourself to higher speeds even if you cannot copy everything.
ARRL Code Practice is good up to 35 WPM, so try that, but on the air 
conversations may drop you back to 25 WPM because of CW being sent 
imperfectly.
When you can copy imperfect code (from a bug or keyer without perfect 
spacing), then you have 'arrived'.


There is no substitute for practice - I advocate the 10 minutes a day at 
trying to copy above your comfortable speed limit.  More time than that 
leads to frustration.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/7/2015 8:27 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:
Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw 
proficiency has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts 
on the subject. Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the 
practice message, then my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could 
be stated as follows. Which is the quickest way to achieve some target 
speed: to start the group at a speed where only one/two character are 
correct, or to start where three/four are correct? I have no doubt 
that with the regular and intense "concentration" that Bob advocates, 
any method [within common sense limits] will result in higher copying 
speed. That said, which starting point is going to get the operator to 
the target speed the quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can 
comfortably copy at speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old 
school" in that many learned in the military and have been at it a 
very long time. I have to believe that their speed developed over time 
with continuous usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An 
interesting "experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy 
at 20wpm, divide them into the two approaches being discussed and 
"measure" how long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm. 
A human factors issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for 
frustration. Starting with only one character correct out of five may 
be pretty daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But, 
that's a separate issue.


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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Robert Harmon]

Robert,

Human nature being what it is all of us put what we think is beneficial 
"time in the saddle"
on the air but we become complacent and migrate back to easier copy and 
we are kidding
ourselves and not really exercising our copying speed abilities. Ask me 
how I know this  :-)

Time in the saddle is not the nirvana for higher speed CW.
Try the exercise Robert then report back.  It is only 10 minutes a day.
As a sideline to being a ARRL VEC, I teach morse code to new hams and
hams that want to improve their CW skills.  I cant take credit for this 
exercise.  I finally took
the advice from other high speed ops and found it to be the most 
efficient and fastest
method for me in advancing my copy speed.  It is necessary to spend ten 
minutes
in quality training time a day for a few weeks.  (I wouldnt call that 
intense, hihi)
Then enjoy "time in the saddle"  but do your 10 minutes regularly for 
awhile and see what happens. !



73,
Bob
K6UJ





On 12/7/15 5:27 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:
Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw 
proficiency has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts 
on the subject. Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the 
practice message, then my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could 
be stated as follows. Which is the quickest way to achieve some target 
speed: to start the group at a speed where only one/two character are 
correct, or to start where three/four are correct? I have no doubt 
that with the regular and intense "concentration" that Bob advocates, 
any method [within common sense limits] will result in higher copying 
speed. That said, which starting point is going to get the operator to 
the target speed the quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can 
comfortably copy at speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old 
school" in that many learned in the military and have been at it a 
very long time. I have to believe that their speed developed over time 
with continuous usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An 
interesting "experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy 
at 20wpm, divide them into the two approaches being discussed and 
"measure" how long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm. 
A human factors issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for 
frustration. Starting with only one character correct out of five may 
be pretty daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But, 
that's a separate issue.


Enjoying and learning from the discussion. Thanks Elecraft!

...robert

On 12/6/2015 08:00, Robert Harmon wrote:


Bill,

We are not discussing entry level code learning.  We are discussing
increasing your code speed on receive.  And speed is vitally important !
K7QQ is not the only one that can copy high speed CW, there are many of
us out here.  Transitioning to higher speed copy can be done through
systematic and regular exercise.  I have been a CW operator for over
40 years and it wasn't until fairly late in the game that I accepted the
advice from several high speed ops on how to progress past mediocre copy
speed.  ( I will share this below)
First we need to realize there are two distinct types of training for
CW.  The first is developing your rote memorization skills for learning
the characters.  I recommend the Farnsworth method for this. With
Farnsworth the characters are sent faster than the words.  For instance
at 10 wpm each character is sent at 20 wpm but enough time is added to
slow down the rate to 10 wpm.  The ARRL adopted this method years ago
for their morse code training materials and the W1AW morse
transmissions.  For example when W1AW is sending at 18 wpm the
characters are sent at 20 wpm.

Now to increase your speed you need to approach your training
differently. (which is the subject of Roberts
original post)  There are different variations of the training used to
increase your speed but they all have a
common denominator.  They all in some form or another introduce copying
at a faster speed (go figure)

Here is what I found to be most effective method for me I learned from
other ops.
Its great to spend time in the saddle copying QSO's in which your
current copying speed will allow, but to really increase your copying
speed you need to spend some time exercising your copying abilities each
day by practice copying ONLY at speeds faster than you can comfortably
copy.  You wont increase your copying speed by always copying at the
same comfortable speeds.  Practice at a speed where you are only able to
copy one or two characters in each word. Concentrate !!   Do this for
only 10 minutes each day.  If you are really concentrating you will find
10 minutes is about when you are ready to throw in the towel for the day
anyway Later on after you find you are able to copy about half of the
overall text then increase the speed back to where you can only copy one
or two characters in each word. (This isn't supposed to be easy this is
a 

Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Robert Harmon]

I noticed that musically inclined folks seem to learn morse quicker.
I wonder why that is ?
BTW I hope we havent been on this non elecraft topic too long on the forum !

73,
Bob
K6UJ

On 12/7/15 8:44 PM, Kevin Stover wrote:

Absolutely there are differences in how peoples brains are wired.

My brother got his license 15 years ago.

He was a music major and is a band director, all of the rigs in his 
shack have the side tone set to 440 Hz, A above middle C. It's been a 
musical tuning standard for ages. Once he got the tone of the cw being 
received and sent set to a standard he knows quite well his CW 
abilities just exploded. He moved past me like white lightning in his 
copy ability. He's doing 40 wpm without breaking a sweat, is net 
control for the Iowa 80m CW net and mastered the Vibroplex bug inside 
of a month.


I'm coming up on my 25th year licensed.
I'm an IT guy, network engineer.
I've always been math/logic and  mechanically inclined.
I can sub-net IPV4 networks in my head.
I struggled learning code. I bought both the ARRL and 73 magazine tapes.
My first try on a morse exam was a flaming failure. 5 wpm test set up 
in a huge auditorium at the local hospital.
We all sat at the front listening to a boom box...and the echo off the 
back wall 60' away. I locked up.
I did finally learn enough to pass the 13wpm test and later the 20 but 
it took a lot of work.
I found the Koch method and the G4FON software 10 years ago. I can now 
do 30 wpm comfortably, 40 in a contest.


The Vibroplex bug my wife bought me still taunts and insults me. I'm 
much more comfortable with the single lever paddle I have and my 
Winkey USB.



On 12/7/2015 8:12 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:

Don...

For sure, individual differences make for a big difference, both in 
the rate of learning and the appropriateness of any one approach. I 
think we all agree that "stretching your current copying speed" is 
the only way to get faster. That's certainly my experience. I think 
my curiosity comes down to how much "stretch" is the sweet spot 
[individual difference aside]. Lots of stretch - few characters/words 
copied, versus some stretch - most characters/words copied.


Speaking of individual factors... I was just practicing with Rufz and 
noticed how long I "hang" on the first character which inevitably 
leads to subsequent errors. So, I pushed myself to almost "ignore" 
the first character and move right along. Overall error rate dropped 
significantly. So, yes, lots going on. Nothing beats practicing, for 
sure. Have a good day.


...robert




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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Ken]

I agree with you there Bob.   I know my CW speed jumped when I worked 
the high level CW nets (EAN) and suddenly HAD to copy fast and 
accurate!   I think in a few weeks I went from 20 to 29 wpm, my limit 
for printing each character.   There was no way I was going to keep 
asking for fills.


It was, however, many years later until I finally broke away from 
printing and started copying in my head.   IMO, when you get at the 
35-40 wpm level, CW totally changes and starts to become more like a 
normal person to person conversation.


Unfortunately, I was off the air for a dozen years and have not regained 
that speed.


On a different topic you mentioned, I HATE Farnsworth.  Yes, maybe it's 
a good way for people to learn but they fail to transistion to sending 
proper code.   There are too many people sending Farnsworth on the air 
and it is improper and sloppy code.  It's a shortcut to doing things 
right and it has a high penalty.


Ken WA8JXM

On 12/6/15 3:00 AM, Robert Harmon wrote:

but to really increase your copying
speed you need to spend some time exercising your copying abilities each
day by practice copying ONLY at speeds faster than you can comfortably
copy.  You wont increase your copying speed by always copying at the
same comfortable speeds.  Practice at a speed where you are only able to
copy one or two characters in each word. Concentrate !! 


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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Peter Chamalian]

Practice is very important but so is having a good coach.  To that end may I
suggest you check out the CW Academy -- http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html

There is also a CWops HF On the Air Advisors program open to all:
http://www.cwops.org/cwa-aota.html

CWops also has a weekly one-hour sprint like contest called CWT that runs on
every Wednesday at 13z, 19z and Thursday 03z.  The exchange is easy -- name
and state or country if you are not a member.  Members send their name and
membership number.


Pete, W1RM

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Stephen Shearer
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 8:31 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice
slow -v- practice fast

Sounds great.  It should work.  I know I need to practice...

I have another problem
How do I put this...  Sloppy sending?

I notice (particularly in contests) that many ops run the characters
together.  I can't copy and my KX3 can't copy.  Good keyers add the proper
spacing between characters and words.  Bugs, straight keys, and simple
keyers don't (can't) add the spacing automatically.
I tried the zombie shuffle, all I or my KX3 got was cqtest, others were were
copying fine.
comments?

steve WB3LGC

On 06-Dec-15 3:00 AM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> We are not discussing entry level code learning.  We are discussing 
> increasing your code speed on receive.  And speed is vitally important !
> K7QQ is not the only one that can copy high speed CW, there are many 
> of us out here.  Transitioning to higher speed copy can be done 
> through systematic and regular exercise.  I have been a CW operator 
> for over
> 40 years and it wasn't until fairly late in the game that I accepted 
> the advice from several high speed ops on how to progress past 
> mediocre copy speed.  ( I will share this below) First we need to 
> realize there are two distinct types of training for CW.  The first is 
> developing your rote memorization skills for learning the characters.  
> I recommend the Farnsworth method for this.  With Farnsworth the 
> characters are sent faster than the words.  For instance at 10 wpm 
> each character is sent at 20 wpm but enough time is added to slow down 
> the rate to 10 wpm.  The ARRL adopted this method years ago for their 
> morse code training materials and the W1AW morse transmissions.  For 
> example when W1AW is sending at 18 wpm the characters are sent at 20 
> wpm.
>
> Now to increase your speed you need to approach your training 
> differently. (which is the subject of Roberts original post)  There 
> are different variations of the training used to increase your speed 
> but they all have a common denominator.  They all in some form or 
> another introduce copying at a faster speed (go figure)
>
> Here is what I found to be most effective method for me I learned from 
> other ops.
> Its great to spend time in the saddle copying QSO's in which your 
> current copying speed will allow, but to really increase your copying 
> speed you need to spend some time exercising your copying abilities 
> each day by practice copying ONLY at speeds faster than you can 
> comfortably copy.  You wont increase your copying speed by always 
> copying at the same comfortable speeds.  Practice at a speed where you are
only able to
> copy one or two characters in each word. Concentrate !!   Do this for
> only 10 minutes each day.  If you are really concentrating you will 
> find
> 10 minutes is about when you are ready to throw in the towel for the 
> day anyway Later on after you find you are able to copy about half of 
> the overall text then increase the speed back to where you can only 
> copy one or two characters in each word. (This isn't supposed to be 
> easy this is a training exercise.) Try this only ten minutes a day and 
> see what happens ! Also this needs to be practiced regularly, every 
> day and if you miss a day, no worries,
> jump back in.   Many hams never improve their speed and are content when
> they reach around 20 wpm max.  In many chasing DX and contest 
> operating CW activities it gives you an big advantage to be able to 
> operate at higher speeds.  We have all heard the high speed ops during 
> a contest and marvel at how fast their contacts go by.  It is great to 
> be able to match their speed and grab a contact !  Its not that 
> difficult folks, just 10 minutes a day of concentrated practice.  As 
> you are gaining your speed don't get frustrated over losing a word or 
> words when you are in a CW QSO and losing the intelligibility of the 
> conversation,  that happens to all of us and will be remedied when you
copying speed is increased.
> Lastly, you will with practice, increase your "comfortable" c

Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice fast

[Stephen Shearer]

Sounds great.  It should work.  I know I need to practice...

I have another problem
How do I put this...  Sloppy sending?

I notice (particularly in contests) that many ops run the characters 
together.  I can't copy and my KX3 can't copy.  Good keyers add the 
proper spacing between characters and words.  Bugs, straight keys, and 
simple keyers don't (can't) add the spacing automatically.
I tried the zombie shuffle, all I or my KX3 got was cqtest, others were 
were copying fine.

comments?

steve WB3LGC

On 06-Dec-15 3:00 AM, Robert Harmon wrote:


Bill,

We are not discussing entry level code learning.  We are discussing
increasing your code speed on receive.  And speed is vitally important !
K7QQ is not the only one that can copy high speed CW, there are many of
us out here.  Transitioning to higher speed copy can be done through
systematic and regular exercise.  I have been a CW operator for over
40 years and it wasn't until fairly late in the game that I accepted the
advice from several high speed ops on how to progress past mediocre copy
speed.  ( I will share this below)
First we need to realize there are two distinct types of training for
CW.  The first is developing your rote memorization skills for learning
the characters.  I recommend the Farnsworth method for this.  With
Farnsworth the characters are sent faster than the words.  For instance
at 10 wpm each character is sent at 20 wpm but enough time is added to
slow down the rate to 10 wpm.  The ARRL adopted this method years ago
for their morse code training materials and the W1AW morse
transmissions.  For example when W1AW is sending at 18 wpm the
characters are sent at 20 wpm.

Now to increase your speed you need to approach your training
differently. (which is the subject of Roberts
original post)  There are different variations of the training used to
increase your speed but they all have a
common denominator.  They all in some form or another introduce copying
at a faster speed (go figure)

Here is what I found to be most effective method for me I learned from
other ops.
Its great to spend time in the saddle copying QSO's in which your
current copying speed will allow, but to really increase your copying
speed you need to spend some time exercising your copying abilities each
day by practice copying ONLY at speeds faster than you can comfortably
copy.  You wont increase your copying speed by always copying at the
same comfortable speeds.  Practice at a speed where you are only able to
copy one or two characters in each word. Concentrate !!   Do this for
only 10 minutes each day.  If you are really concentrating you will find
10 minutes is about when you are ready to throw in the towel for the day
anyway Later on after you find you are able to copy about half of the
overall text then increase the speed back to where you can only copy one
or two characters in each word. (This isn't supposed to be easy this is
a training exercise.)
Try this only ten minutes a day and see what happens ! Also this needs
to be practiced regularly, every day and if you miss a day, no worries,
jump back in.   Many hams never improve their speed and are content when
they reach around 20 wpm max.  In many chasing DX and contest operating
CW activities it gives you an big advantage to be able to operate at
higher speeds.  We have all heard the high speed ops during a contest
and marvel at how fast their contacts go by.  It is great to be able to
match their speed and grab a contact !  Its not that difficult folks,
just 10 minutes a day of concentrated practice.  As you are gaining your
speed don't get frustrated over losing a word or words when you are in a
CW QSO and losing the intelligibility of the conversation,  that happens
to all of us and will be remedied when you copying speed is increased.
Lastly, you will with practice, increase your "comfortable" copy speed
to upwards of 30 to 35 wpm and more.
You will be able to really enjoy morse as a language.  You will sit
there and listen to sentences and
paragraphs go by in your head with complete understanding.  It is very
enjoyable !


73,
Bob
K6UJ






On 12/5/15 11:54 AM, Bill Rowlett wrote:

The best way to learn CW is the same as learning any language, by the
sound of the letters or charters. The speed you use to practice is not
important, it is writing down the letter when heard, over and over
again. K7QO has a CW program on his site which does just that. Also,
it is finding the time and dedication to put in the time needed. K7QO
by the way has won copy contest at over 100wpm, he knows what he speaks.

Just my two cents. Now, back to the practice.

73 and good DX

Bill  KC4ATU


On Dec 5, 2015, at 2:37 PM, Kevin Stover
wrote:


I've always thought the Farnsworth method was directly responsible
for the "10 wpm wall" newcomers were running into. Reading "The Art
and Skill of Radio Telegraphy" Pierpont says the same thing. By
stretching the time between words you give people