Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Thanks Ron AC7AC That explains alot. Ok I can see why now, after hearing a massive pileup and everyone stepping on each other. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. Tony, it may have been done for alot of people, I have never experienced it. I like talking to DX, Finding out about where he lives and about his station. But I agree it seems that most rare DX is a callsign, rst, and name. I guess I enjoy the conversation and contacts. Thanks to everyone on this reflector for their help and technical knowledge, it is very helpful information to me. Gerald Manthey - KC6CNN -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Re-split-pileup-and-listening-was-Pileups-and-KPA500-ST0R-tp6638071p6639930.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups
Back in the old days with my Heath Twins, it was simple to transmit split, but you could not hear your TX frequency easily. You had to grab the VFO assign button and flip it back and forth between the 301 VFO and the 401 VFO on the 301 receiver control. Same issue on my TS430S, but much harder. I broke the VFO select knob on that one. Then I moved up to a TS850, and I literally wore the painted label of off the TF-SET button. I developed the habit of pressing it quickly for a simulated dual receiver effect (the current owner of the rig loves to tell the story of his blank knob!). You can do the same thing with the REV button on the K3. Now its so easy! Main RX on the DX, KRX3/VFO B on the TX frequency, the DX mixed to both ears on Main and the TX frequency RX is in the right ear only, adjust the balance for taste. And I can tell you, the P3 is a quantum leap over that! Got #1301 on line this weekend, and found ST0R on 15 CW. I see him and then I see the pileup. It was a simple matter to see who had just worked him, land on that frequency, and call. (Always wanted an SB-620 back in the old days to do this with) grin. Ron, I may adopt your technique (below). ESPECIALLY on a run in a contest with a pileup, because that big knob is easier to use than the little RIT knob. Be like going back to the way I did it with the Heath Twins. Lu Romero - W4LT K3 # 3192 / P3 # 1301 Message: 9 Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:44:56 -0700 From: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz Subject: Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileupsand KPA500/ST0R To: Message-ID: 002001cc4fcb$17375780$45a60680$@biz Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii I normally operate my K2 and K3 exactly like I operated my separate transmitter and receiver pair in the past. I tune the RX to the frequency on which I plan to transmit. Zero beat with the TX, and transmit. With modern transceivers like the Elecraft rigs it's much, much faster and easier than with a separate TX/RX. I run in SPLIT all the time. When I'm receiving on the frequency on which I want to transmit I tap A=B (on the K2) or AB (on the K3) to instantly zero beat the transmitter to the rx frequency. Now I can continue to tune around using the comfortable VFO A knob without disturbing my transmit frequency. A nice feature we didn't have on the separate tx/rx pair is that we can press REV to peek at our transmit frequency at any time and then instantly return to the selected receive frequency. So there's even less excuse for not checking the xmit frequency before actually transmitting than we had years ago, Hi! 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- ..Of course, in those days there were no transceivers, so tuning Rx and Tx independently was part of normal operation. Everybody knew how to do it, or they didn't operate... Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Thanks everyone who responded. I now have a basic understanding of split. I have spent time re-reading the manual, info below and pondered all the responses. Some off the list. I have spend time playing with the knobs on the K3 and think I now have the basics under control. To me this hobby is like drinking from a fire hose. Thanks again for all the help, someday I hope I can answer questions like the folks on this group. Cheers ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Cady, Fred wrote: Hi Don (et. al.) I put a fair amount of explanation of split operation in The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation. You can see some of it by going to http://www.ke7x.com/home/guide-to-the-k3/chapter-3-1 and scrolling down to section 3.2.10. Give it a try. It is very satisfying (at least to me) to figure out how and where the dx is working and then to be able to jump in and work it. I got the ST0 on 20m running barefoot with a dipole. (I do have the advantage of the second receiver and a P3, though). Good luck and 73, Fred Cady, KE7X fcady at ieee dot org www.ke7x.com -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft- boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of gold...@charter.net Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:39 AM To: bob finger Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R Bob, I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you stated below. Would you please try and explain it to me.Others have tried but for some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in. I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured that wont work so well. Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, gold...@charter.net wrote: ...I now have a basic understanding of split. I have spent time re-reading the manual, info below and pondered... === Good for you, Don. Getting a grip on split operation will help you appreciate the genius of the design of modern ham rigs and the K3 in particular, and it'll expand your operating knowledge and enjoyment. Plus, of course, it will make it possible to really chase DX. This has its downside, however -- you could become warped like some of the rest of us Good DX, Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Bob, I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you stated below. Would you please try and explain it to me.Others have tried but for some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in. I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured that wont work so well. Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote: I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too of course. One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log. The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours. I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me. Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts. Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now. 73 bob de w9ge __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes it a breeze. The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and you will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear now has the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking. Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally bump it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until you start to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if there is a pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working stations further up the dial after each contact? Down the dial? Listening on the same frequency call after call? Read the mail, get familiar with his style. The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you have to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By figuring out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over most of those ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the DX likely has his receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO with the guy he is working and drop your call as soon as he is finished. If the DX is moving up the dial after each contact, move your VFO slightly above that guy and make your call. Try to anticipate where the DX will be listening next. While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW and this technique. 73 de na6m On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: Bob, I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you stated below. Would you please try and explain it to me.Others have tried but for some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in. I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured that wont work so well. Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote: I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too of course. One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log. The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours. I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me. Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts. Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now. 73 bob de w9ge __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at a disadvantage. However, when someone is spotted and they say for example 2.4 UP, I assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I have it backwards? Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Mark Stennett wrote: I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes it a breeze. The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and you will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear now has the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking. Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally bump it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until you start to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if there is a pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working stations further up the dial after each contact? Down the dial? Listening on the same frequency call after call? Read the mail, get familiar with his style. The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you have to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By figuring out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over most of those ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the DX likely has his receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO with the guy he is working and drop your call as soon as he is finished. If the DX is moving up the dial after each contact, move your VFO slightly above that guy and make your call. Try to anticipate where the DX will be listening next. While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW and this technique. 73 de na6m On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: Bob, I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you stated below. Would you please try and explain it to me.Others have tried but for some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in. I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured that wont work so well. Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote: I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too of course. One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log. The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours. I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me. Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts. Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now. 73 bob de w9ge __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home:
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
You can do this with RIT/XIT also but not as elegantly as with a second receiver running in split. You are correct in your assessment. On 07/31/2011 09:05 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at a disadvantage. However, when someone is spotted and they say for example 2.4 UP, I assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I have it backwards? Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Mark Stennett wrote: I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes it a breeze. The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and you will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear now has the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking. Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally bump it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until you start to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if there is a pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working stations further up the dial after each contact? Down the dial? Listening on the same frequency call after call? Read the mail, get familiar with his style. The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you have to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By figuring out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over most of those ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the DX likely has his receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO with the guy he is working and drop your call as soon as he is finished. If the DX is moving up the dial after each contact, move your VFO slightly above that guy and make your call. Try to anticipate where the DX will be listening next. While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW and this technique. 73 de na6m On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: Bob, I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you stated below. Would you please try and explain it to me. Others have tried but for some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in. I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured that wont work so well. Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote: I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too of course. One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log. The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours. I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me. Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts. Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now. 73 bob de w9ge __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Don, Using your example --- Yes, you put the K3 in split and move VFO B 2.4 kHz higher than VFO A. You should listen on your transmit frequency (he may not be listening exactly 2.4 kHz up), and you can do that by holding the REV button. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/31/2011 10:05 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at a disadvantage. However, when someone is spotted and they say for example 2.4 UP, I assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I have it backwards? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
When I chased DX there was no split, we conserved bandwidth. Is there somewhere to see the split freq? Is it what the op wants? Is it limited to cw or ssb? Can someone explain it to me, I'm sure their are others wondering too. Thanks On Jul 31, 2011 9:16 AM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Don, Using your example --- Yes, you put the K3 in split and move VFO B 2.4 kHz higher than VFO A. You should listen on your transmit frequency (he may not be listening exactly 2.4 kHz up), and you can do that by holding the REV button. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/31/2011 10:05 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at a disadvantage. However, when someone is spotted and they say for example 2.4 UP, I assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I have it backwards? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Hi Don (et. al.) I put a fair amount of explanation of split operation in The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation. You can see some of it by going to http://www.ke7x.com/home/guide-to-the-k3/chapter-3-1 and scrolling down to section 3.2.10. Give it a try. It is very satisfying (at least to me) to figure out how and where the dx is working and then to be able to jump in and work it. I got the ST0 on 20m running barefoot with a dipole. (I do have the advantage of the second receiver and a P3, though). Good luck and 73, Fred Cady, KE7X fcady at ieee dot org www.ke7x.com -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft- boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of gold...@charter.net Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:39 AM To: bob finger Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R Bob, I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you stated below. Would you please try and explain it to me.Others have tried but for some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in. I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured that wont work so well. Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
On Jul 31, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Mark Stennett wrote: You can do this with RIT/XIT also but not as elegantly as with a second receiver running in split. For the sake of those who don't understand that method… obviously, with one VFO and no split, we have no choice but to use RIT with the KX1. I tune through the pile-up with RIT off, listening for where others are making contact with the DX, noting any trend in changes to that. I stop where I want to transmit, engage RIT and tune to the DX transmit frequency. When the time comes, I PLaY memory 2, my call sign a couple of times, and listen for my call sign to be returned. If he calls someone else, I repeat the process (RIT off, etc), finding where he was listening last again. When RIT is on, the decimal point on the frequency display flashes as a reminder. The main problem with using RIT is that if I change my transmit frequency, I have to readjust RIT to get back on the DX transmit frequency, since RIT is an offset of the transmit frequency. That's not necessary when using two VFOs split. You can elegantly adjust one without affecting the other. Not having anything to do with this subject, memory 1 on my KX1 is a 3x2 CQ and rePeat (hold PLaY) is set to a minimum of 15 seconds. I hope this helps someone. -- Moe - AB8XA Elecraft KX1 #2484, Fists #13020, SKCC #7460, FPQRP #2617, NAQCC #5352, QRP-ARCI #14326 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
The first thing you need to do is live three or four skip zones closer to the DX so that you can say, Worked ST0R on the first call on six-meters using my wet string dipole and my K3 dialed down to only 10 watts...don't know why the rest of you are having so much trouble. Absent that, what you understand is true. However, the second most important thing to do is NOT to automatically transmit 2.4 KHz up, unless you're in the one hop zone, because every other guy, except me, is also transmitting 2.4 KHz up. Disconnect yourself from the spotting network and listen. I'm like you and don't have a second receiver. I do have an SDR-IQ and can see the pileup, but this is an aid, not a necessity. Here is my technique: True Split operation: (I only use this method if the split is greater than 10 KHz, otherwise I use the XIT/RIT method I'll describe later.) Tune in the DX using VFO A. How strong is he? If he's S3 here in AZ and the guys spotting him are saying he's S9+ in NY, I'm probably going to do something else for awhile. But let's say that he's strong enough to be workable. [Lock] the dial and do an A/B swap. Now you can use the main tuning knob to find the pileup and get the flavor of what the competition is doing. If you listen and determine that the stations working him really are all doing it up 2.4 KHz, then you know he's not tuning between Qs and you are going to have to rely on timing and/or being louder than everyone else. Do another A/B swap and start calling. Otherwise, continue to listen to the pile, trying to find the guys that are giving him a report. You can generally tell when he's transmitting because the pile will die down, except for the guys who won't be working him because they are calling when he is transmitting. See if you can deduce a pattern in where he is listening. Sometimes there simply isn't one and/or propagation is such that you really can't hear many or any stations working him. You're going to have to pick a spot and rely on timing, propagation, luck or the (yuck) spotting network. Do an A/B swap so you hear the DX on A and have at it. In the case where he is clearly changing his listen frequency from time to time you need to anticipate where he will listen next. For this you need to try to hear the last guy he worked. If you are back to listening on A, the [REV] button becomes your friend. On a good day, I can press the [REV] button with a finger and tune the VFO with my thumb, but you might have to make this a two-handed operation. Regardless of how you do it, [REV] temporarily allows you to listen to and change if necessary, what will be your TX frequency. Alternative XIT/RIT method: If the split is less than 10 KHz than I personally far prefer to use the XIT and RIT controls. As before, tune in the DX and [Lock] the VFO, make sure [Split] is off. Everything else about listening, anticipating, timing, etc, remains the same. Now to listen to the pile and set a TX frequency, turn on (tap) both RIT and XIT. The RIT/XIT control knob is now the tuning knob. As you turn it, you are listening on what will be your TX frequency, the B display will momentarily show the offset and the A display will show the actual frequency. When you have picked a TX freq, tap the RIT button and you are back to listening to the DX and when you transmit it will be at the offset frequency. If you fail to be heard, you can either sit tight or if you choose to find the station that's working him you can tap RIT and tune for him. Tap RIT again and you're back to listening to the DX. I find it easier to do this with the RIT button and knob next to each other that trying to hold the REV button while tuning the VFO knob. Regardless of technique, listen, listen, listen. He can't hear you when he's transmitting, he won't answer you if he's calling for sevens and you're an eight. If he is on 14.195 and as one DXpedition op said, Listening up five to ten... and... 14.190, then you really want to, as I did, call him on 14.190, while everyone else is calling up five to ten. N7WS --- On Sun, 7/31/11, gold...@charter.net gold...@charter.net wrote: I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at a disadvantage. However, when someone is spotted and they say for example 2.4 UP, I assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I have it backwards? Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Gerald, it seems that most DX uses split when it generates a pileup. That allows the calling stations to hear the DX stations even when some continue calling after DX station comes back to someone. In a perfect world everyone would listen before transmitting, but we are far from perfect. Besides, skip conditions on the most popular DX bands often prevent the calling stations from hearing each other. The amount of split is not fixed, but most stations listen up from their transmitting frequency. The split is typically about 2 kHz on CW. (I can't speak for other modes.) Some stations try to locate the station the DX is currently working and tail end with their call when they sign. Others shift up or down a few hundred Hz from the frequency the DX was last listening on, looking for a possible quiet spot the DX station might tune to and notice them. I very seldom call DX if there's a pileup and never call CQ DX. However, it's not unusual to have DX reply to my CQ right on my frequency, sometimes resulting in a rag-chew. As we are chatting we'll eventually start to hear blips and beeps of people tapping their keys on the frequency or someone just sends BK BK BK BK as if the DX station isn't allowed to do anything but run exchanges for their log books. As soon as we recognize a breaking station there is often a huge pileup calling the DX right on top of our frequency. I haven't a clue as to how the DX station shifts that one-frequency pile-up to a split frequency arrangement, if he/she ever does. As soon as we sign I'm spinning the dial to get away from the mayhem, Hi! Ron AC7AC -Original Message- When I chased DX there was no split, we conserved bandwidth. Is there somewhere to see the split freq? Is it what the op wants? Is it limited to cw or ssb? Can someone explain it to me, I'm sure their are others wondering too. Thanks __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
...When I chased DX there was no split, we conserved bandwidth == This is a strange statement. I was licensed in 1958, and soon got interested in DX. In those days the DX columns of CQ and QST were filled with anguished pleas for stations to work split and never transmit on the DX frequency. This is still the case today -- recent columns in both magazines sound just like those from 1958 -- and always has been as far as I know. My Elmers, W0AJU and W0QDF, were honor roll DXers who tried to teach me the ropes. I once got a terse phone-call from one of them when I inadvertently called on the DX frequency. (Even today I never transmit with VFO A. When working simplex I just set AB. I'm always in split mode.) Of course, in those days there were no transceivers, so tuning Rx and Tx independently was part of normal operation. Everybody knew how to do it, or they didn't operate. Now the simple act of tuning your radio seems to be a mystery. I guess that if you don't use CW and you operate phone simplex you can work some DX, but the rare ones will remain beyond your reach. It ain't hard. As one poster observed, the K3 makes it as easy as any radio can make it. The Yaesu FT1000 radios were designed explicitly for split operation, and they revolutionized DXing. The K3 has the same setup, but improved with a better main and much better 2nd receiver, better control of what you hear in the headphones, etc. If you don't know how to receive on one frequency and transmit on another, spend some time learning how. Only then can you really appreciate what your K3 is, and why. Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
I normally operate my K2 and K3 exactly like I operated my separate transmitter and receiver pair in the past. I tune the RX to the frequency on which I plan to transmit. Zero beat with the TX, and transmit. With modern transceivers like the Elecraft rigs it's much, much faster and easier than with a separate TX/RX. I run in SPLIT all the time. When I'm receiving on the frequency on which I want to transmit I tap A=B (on the K2) or AB (on the K3) to instantly zero beat the transmitter to the rx frequency. Now I can continue to tune around using the comfortable VFO A knob without disturbing my transmit frequency. A nice feature we didn't have on the separate tx/rx pair is that we can press REV to peek at our transmit frequency at any time and then instantly return to the selected receive frequency. So there's even less excuse for not checking the xmit frequency before actually transmitting than we had years ago, Hi! 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- ...Of course, in those days there were no transceivers, so tuning Rx and Tx independently was part of normal operation. Everybody knew how to do it, or they didn't operate... Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening
to Don who said I have never understood this whole split operation one of our fellow K3 owners and an old neighbor, Bob W9KNI wrote a book on working DX, In fact it is THE BOOK' on working DX not only does it thoroughly go thru all the variations of working split , it has many if not all the little techniques of working split efficiently if you have not read it , and you want to work DX you have been reading the wrong stuff.check it out http://www.idiompress.com/books-complete-dxer.html I buy worn out copies at hamfests and pass them to friends bill ny9h/3 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Mark, Very good advice. I normally run the bandwidth about 300HZ listening to the DX. But with the other VFO I open up the bandwidth to at least 1KHZ so I can tune around and more easily find the station the DX is working. After the DX works a few stations hopefully I get the feel of his/her pattern. Then I have an educated guess as to where I should transmit to work them quickly - some DX camp on a frequency until it gets too unruly, some go up or down in slight increments, some jump up or down in fixed increments using memory buttons to keep the rate up. Some even say listening up and purposely listen down to manage the pileups. It sure helps to listen first to find the pattern before just sending into the ether. On SSB it is more difficult with typically wider spread of signals. But you can usually find the pattern there too. And the P3 helps with this too to find the station the DX is working if out of your bandwidth. The K3 is very easy to use SPLIT. I have programmed PF1 for SPLIT, same MODE, up 2KHZ. Sure beats the way we used to do it in the day of tube rigs and even some of the newer SS rigs. ST0R - 8 bands so far. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mark Stennett Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:14 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes it a breeze. The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and you will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear now has the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking. Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally bump it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until you start to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if there is a pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working stations further up the dial after each contact? Down the dial? Listening on the same frequency call after call? Read the mail, get familiar with his style. The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you have to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By figuring out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over most of those ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the DX likely has his receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO with the guy he is working and drop your call as soon as he is finished. If the DX is moving up the dial after each contact, move your VFO slightly above that guy and make your call. Try to anticipate where the DX will be listening next. While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW and this technique. 73 de na6m On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: Bob, I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you stated below. Would you please try and explain it to me.Others have tried but for some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in. I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured that wont work so well. Thanks ~73 Don KD8NNU On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote: I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too of course. One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log. The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours. I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me. Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts. Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now. 73 bob de w9ge __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening
I recall that it was in Bob's first edition of The Complete DXer, that he noted that serious DXers only used separate transmitters and receivers. It was of course written at a time when transceivers were relatively new and wide splits for chasing DX required remote VFOs. Dual receive was still to come. A few years ago I had an occasion to reminded him of his erstwhile pronouncement and was greeted with a knowing shrug and smile. 73 - Steve WB6RSE On Jul 31, 2011, at 4:24 PM, Bill NY9H wrote: one of our fellow K3 owners and an old neighbor, Bob W9KNI wrote a book on working DX, In fact it is THE BOOK' on working DX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Bill NY9H n...@arrl.net wrote: ...Bob W9KNI wrote a book on working DX, In fact it is THE BOOK' on working DX...thoroughly go thru all the variations of working split ... == Bob's book even has a long discourse on how to zero-beat the other guy if he is working simplex! Ya know, none of this stuff is hard to learn/figure out. The K3 and P3 were designed explicitly to make proper station operation easy and smooth. Hams today have such sweet tools, and it requires such minimal effort to learn how to use them. Tony KT0NY -- http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R
Tony and others have advised... I can tune around and more easily find the station the DX is working. A sterling idea, but when the DX station is on the other side of the world, and hundreds are calling, there's very little chance I can locate the station he/she is working. I have a K3 with the second receiver, and a P3 as well. I've not been able to connect yet, but timing my call appropriately and calling on the 'fringes' of the audible and visible pileup seem to be the best bet for me. 73, George T Daughters, K6GT CU in the California QSO Party (CQP) October 1-2, 2011 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
