Re: Suitability of X2 Capacitors as Basic Insulation
Peter, I understand you want to use this capacitor between the Central Office battery and Ground (Protective Earth). Why do you need Basic Insulation anyway if you interconnect to Protective Earth. From my point of view, you only need Operational insulation. Regards, Chris Collin On Thu, 05 October 2000, Peter Merguerian wrote: Sender: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org X-Listname: emc-pstc To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Delivered-To: altavista.com%globalass...@altavista.com X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Sender: itldom /pmerguerian@10.0.0.2 X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Received: by ruebert.ieee.org (8.9.3/8.9.3)id EAA17721; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:35:25 -0400 (EDT) from ruebert.ieee.org (199.172.136.3) by smtp.c012.sfo.cp.net (209.228.13.220) with SMTP; 5 Oct 2000 03:44:44 -0700 by ruebert.ieee.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA17721; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 1102 X-Received: 5 Oct 2000 10:44:44 GMT Precedence: bulk Subject: Suitability of X2 Capacitors as Basic Insulation X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org From: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il Return-Path: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:28:26 +0200 Message-Id: 3.0.6.32.20001005112826.00890790@10.0.0.2 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Is it possible to use a 250 Vac X2 approved capacitor as a y capacitor (input to ground) for a unit with an input voltage of 48/60Vdc up to 72Vdc? In other words, is an X2 capacitor suitable for basic insulation? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Correction - When is an LED evaluated to IEC 825, like a Laser?
Kathy, IEC60825-1 is a standard for LED's and LASERs. In most cases, LEDs are class 1 and thus harmless, but the data of the LED should tell you about this. I was told by LEd manufacturer that LED's are mostly class 1, but due to the requirement of more light power for LEDs, they could get at the edge of beiing harmless. The latter also depends on the temperature (the colder the worse) and the color of the LED (blue coloured LEDs are worse). Also EN60950, 2nd ed. has a special Amendement 11 telling about the laserclassification of LEDs. Regards, Chris Collin On Thu, 05 October 2000, Kathy Toy wrote: Sender: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org X-Listname: emc-pstc To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Delivered-To: altavista.com%globalass...@altavista.com X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Received: by ruebert.ieee.org (8.9.3/8.9.3)id OAA23170; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:05:27 -0400 (EDT) from ruebert.ieee.org (199.172.136.3) by smtp.c012.sfo.cp.net (209.228.13.148) with SMTP; 5 Oct 2000 13:06:59 -0700 by ruebert.ieee.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23170; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Content-Length: 942 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Received: 5 Oct 2000 20:06:59 GMT Precedence: bulk Content-Md5: iZNme1BcmS48ynHjhvOMtg== Subject: Correction - When is an LED evaluated to IEC 825, like a Laser? X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org From: Kathy Toy kathy@eng.sun.com Return-Path: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Kathy Toy kathy@eng.sun.com Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:05:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.3.4 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Message-Id: 200010051805.laa16...@ha1mpk-mail.eng.sun.com (I restated the question.) Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. Question: When does an LED need to be evaluated to IEC 825 standard? Are there any other industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Correction - When is an LED evaluated to IEC 825, like a Las er?
Hello Kathy, I assume that you are designing products to IEC 60950. However, which edition? There is a big difference between the 2nd and 3rd editions when it comes to LEDs. IEC 60950 3rd edition does not specify LEDs having to be compliant with IEC 60825-1, only lasers (see clause 4.3.13 and Annex H). Regards, +=+ |Ronald R. Wellman|Voice : 408-345-8229 | |Agilent Technologies |FAX : 408-345-8630 | |5301 Stevens Creek Blvd.,|E-Mail: ron_well...@agilent.com| |Mailstop 54L-SQ |WWW : http://www.agilent.com | |Santa Clara, California 95052 USA| | +=+ | Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age | | eighteen. - Albert Einstein | +=+ -Original Message- From: Kathy Toy [mailto:kathy@eng.sun.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 11:05 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Correction - When is an LED evaluated to IEC 825, like a Laser? (I restated the question.) Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. Question: When does an LED need to be evaluated to IEC 825 standard? Are there any other industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
IEC 945
Does anyone have a list of the limits for IEC 945? Regards Guy Story, KC5GOI Interphase Corporation 13800 Senlac Dallas Texas 75234
RE: When is an LED a Laser?
I should restate what I said earlier - LEDs are covered under IEC 825, but the typical display LED falls so far below the Maximum Permissible Exposure levels as to be exempt (see Scope of IEC 825). Paul O'S. -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:49 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: kathy@eng.sun.com Subject: When is an LED a Laser? Kathy, I am no expert on IEC 60825, but may help a little. The standard is intended to prevent human exposure to light energy within specified wavelengths. It initially focused only on laser safety, because lasers represent a beam of focused energy, i.e. more uW per area. An LED is not a laser, but merely a light source. When this light is collimated and concentrated into a single beam, then it is a laser. LEDs were added to the scope of IEC 60825 to ensure that the output of any LEDs (laser or not) would be within acceptable exposure limits. In general, common LEDs used for operator panel indicators distribute their light energy over a roughly hemi-spherical surface, although not equally. In most cases, there is insufficient energy in any vector to cause an exposure problem. George -- Forwarded by George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark on 10/05/2000 01:31 PM --- kathy.toy%eng.sun@interlock.lexmark.com on 10/05/2000 01:08:52 PM Please respond to kathy.toy%eng.sun@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc: kathy.toy%eng.sun@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: When is an LED a Laser? Hi: Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. My question: When is an LED a Laser? In other words, at what power level does an LED become required to meet the IEC 825 standard? Are there industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ Kathy Toy _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ Safety Compliance Engineer _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ Office/Voice Mail:(650)786-3210 _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ Dept. FAX: (650)786-3723 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Email:kathy@eng.sun.com M I C R O S Y S T E M S --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: RTTE PTT Notification
Thanks Jon. We are using a recognized radio test lab to make our first notifications. We may do it ourselves after that. I am sure that there are many of us that would love to have a copy of that list you have. Would you post it please? Richard Woods -- From: Jon Bond [SMTP:jb...@zoomtel.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:42 PM To: 'rehel...@mmm.com'; wo...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RTTE PTT Notification We recently submitted notifications to the EU and EFTA member states. With the generous help of a regular contributor to this forum, we were provided with numerous member state notification forms, mailing addresses and email addresses to send out the notifications. We also heard that Germany was requiring declarations to a national standard. In hopes of avoiding any problems, we used a notified body to perform notification submittals to Germany and 3 other countries we've had problems with in the past with regards to regulatory approvals. We notified about 15 EU / EFTA members on our own. We only declared to the relevant ETSI and EN standards, we did not declare to anyone's national standard. The 4 week timeframe has come and gone and we have only received ok's, and no responses. We have not received any rejections for not declaring to a national standard. The 4-week time period has come and gone. (BTW, Germany was a no response.) Regards, Jon Bond Senior Compliance Engineer Zoom Telephonics -Original Message- From: rehel...@mmm.com [SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:57 PM To: wo...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: RTTE PTT Notification It is my understanding that the UK wants information on the modulation used and the ITU classifcation. Other than that I have not heard of anything else from any other country (including Germany).has anyone else heard of country specials and the RTTE? === wo...@sensormatic.com on 10/05/2000 08:29:15 AM Please respond to wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) Subject: RTTE PTT Notification We are about to begin our RTTE notification process to the various PTTs in the EEA member countries. I read on this forum that Germany requires declaration to their national standard and not an ETSI standard. Are there any countries that have special requirements for the notification? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Test lab with 5uH LISN's at 150Adc
Hi Jim, Have you tried Electronic Test Centre in Airdrie, Alberta? Tel: (403) 912-0037 -- = Daniel Kwok Vancouver, BC, Canada Intetron Consulting, Inc. Telephone 604.432.9874 Email dk...@intetron.com Free EMC Tips @ our web site http://www.intetron.com; = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: When is an LED a Laser?
Hello Kathy, Your design engineers may be getting classical LEDs mixed up with Laser Diodes, which I have seen labelled as Laser LEDs. LEDs are the red, green, yellow indicators which have become commonplace everywhere. These put out a simple non-coherent light. I do not believe they are covered in any way by IEC 825. Laser diodes are low-power lasing devices which produce a coherent laser beam - quite a different animal. Because of the concentrated, coherent nature of the light beam, and the damage it could do to the eye's retina in particular, laser devices are particularly addressed by EN 60825 (IEC 825, etc.). The scope, power levels, labelling, protections required are all spelled out in IEC 825. If your engineers are playing with lasers and DON'T know about IEC 825, please do them a favor and get them a copy. Paul O'Shaughnessy Affymetrix, Inc. -Original Message- From: Kathy Toy [mailto:kathy@eng.sun.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:09 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: kathy@eng.sun.com Subject: When is an LED a Laser? Hi: Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. My question: When is an LED a Laser? In other words, at what power level does an LED become required to meet the IEC 825 standard? Are there industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/Kathy Toy _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ Safety Compliance Engineer _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ Office/Voice Mail:(650)786-3210 _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ Dept. FAX: (650)786-3723 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/Email:kathy@eng.sun.com M I C R O S Y S T E M S --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: RTTE PTT Notification
We recently submitted notifications to the EU and EFTA member states. With the generous help of a regular contributor to this forum, we were provided with numerous member state notification forms, mailing addresses and email addresses to send out the notifications. We also heard that Germany was requiring declarations to a national standard. In hopes of avoiding any problems, we used a notified body to perform notification submittals to Germany and 3 other countries we've had problems with in the past with regards to regulatory approvals. We notified about 15 EU / EFTA members on our own. We only declared to the relevant ETSI and EN standards, we did not declare to anyone's national standard. The 4 week timeframe has come and gone and we have only received ok's, and no responses. We have not received any rejections for not declaring to a national standard. The 4-week time period has come and gone. (BTW, Germany was a no response.) Regards, Jon Bond Senior Compliance Engineer Zoom Telephonics -Original Message- From: rehel...@mmm.com [SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:57 PM To: wo...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: RTTE PTT Notification It is my understanding that the UK wants information on the modulation used and the ITU classifcation. Other than that I have not heard of anything else from any other country (including Germany).has anyone else heard of country specials and the RTTE? === wo...@sensormatic.com on 10/05/2000 08:29:15 AM Please respond to wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) Subject: RTTE PTT Notification We are about to begin our RTTE notification process to the various PTTs in the EEA member countries. I read on this forum that Germany requires declaration to their national standard and not an ETSI standard. Are there any countries that have special requirements for the notification? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: RTTE PTT Notification
No, seemed fairly simple once I figured out where to send the notifications to. Let me know if you need some of that information, I have developed a good database. Oh I did get a call from someone in France about my notification. He sounded like he was at a payphone in a train station. On top of that, his English was bad and my French was worse so you can imagine the call wasn't productive. I'm still not sure why he called although he did say everything was okay. That's all I needed to know, so that's where the conversation ended. All in all, my 1st experience with the new directive has gone well. I am now in the process of converting our existing approvals over to the new scheme. ~ Sam Wismer RF Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. (770) 447-4224 Ext. 3654 Visit Our Website at: http://www.lxe.com -Original Message- From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RTTE PTT Notification Thanks for blazing the trail, Sam. Did you run into any quirks in other EEA countries? Richard Woods -- From: Wismer, Sam [SMTP:wisme...@lxe.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:04 PM To: wo...@sensormatic.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RTTE PTT Notification Hi Richard, Yes that was me. For our 2.4GHZ equipment, I made notification to the RegTP declaring complaince to the essential requirements of the RTTE Directive as required by Article 6.4 of the directive. The response I received back was that it was necessary to declare complaince to their national standard, BAPT 222 ZV 126 in this case, as well as the ETS standards(ETS 300 328). I thought this to be in violation of the directive and thus European law and asked my notified body for advice. They too thought this to be a violation of the directive and agreed to look into the matter. I never heard back from them on this issue. I went ahead and re-issued my notification form declaring compliance to both standards since after review, I found them to be technically equivalent. ~ Sam Wismer RF Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. (770) 447-4224 Ext. 3654 Visit Our Website at: http://www.lxe.com http://www.lxe.com -Original Message- From: wo...@sensormatic.com [ mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com ] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:29 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RTTE PTT Notification We are about to begin our RTTE notification process to the various PTTs in the EEA member countries. I read on this forum that Germany requires declaration to their national standard and not an ETSI standard. Are there any countries that have special requirements for the notification? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: When is an LED a Laser?
Kathy, IEC 825-1 has been published as EN 60825-1. EN 60825-1 covers lasers and LED's. An LED and a laser are two different devices, so I don't think that I can tell you the circumstances under which an LED becomes a laser. Theoretically, this would only happen if the piece of semiconductor used for the LED were cleaved to the proper dimensions in order to make a reflective cavity ... But I don't think that that's what your asking, so I'll spare the details. What I can tell you is that EN 60825-1 deals with safety and exposure limits of light radiation. The standard covers both lasers and LED's and really doesn't care if the light source is a laser or an LED. As a matter of fact, the beginning of the standard goes so far as to mention that it will use the word laser to cover both laser and LED for the remainder of the text. The standard is concerned with semiconductor light sources that have the potential to concentrate enough light power into a small enough area to either cause eye damage, skin burns, or fire hazards. This includes both lasers and LED's. It doesn't matter what it's called. What matters is how much power it puts out and how small an area this power is focused into. I'll give you some examples: We manufacture fiber optic light sources which inject infra-red(1550nm) light into a fiber. We have one model that uses a laser to generate the light and another which uses an LED. We have gone through the calculations outlined in the standard, and both are Class 1 devices. We label both as a Class 1 laser device under EN 60825-1. We then put certain warnings in the user's manual ... We manufacture another product which uses an LED to inject red (635nm) light into a fiber. The red LED by itself wouldn't be a problem, however, our product collimates and focuses the light from this LED into the core of a fiber (10um diameter). The power density of red light in this fiber is calculated to be high enough for us to classify this device as a Class II laser device under EN 60825-1. We put the appropriate warnings in the user's manual. We make another product that uses a red LED on its display in order to show that the power is turned on. The light from this LED is unfocused and diffuse. As such, its power density is low enough that we don't even consider EN 60825-1. The unit is unmarked (from laser classification standpoint) and we put no warnings regarding laser radiation in the manual. One special consideration in EN 60825-1 is for arrays of LED's. A single, diffuse, unfocused LED by itself may be harmless. But there are circumstances where people will design products with an array of many LED's close enough together that they will put out sufficient power density to be a concern. Chris Maxwell, Design Engineer GN Nettest Optical Division 6 Rhoads Drive, Building 4 Utica, NY 13502 PH: 315-797-4449 FAX: 315-797-8024 EMAIL: chr...@gnlp.com -Original Message- From: Kathy Toy [SMTP:kathy@eng.sun.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:09 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: kathy@eng.sun.com Subject: When is an LED a Laser? Hi: Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. My question: When is an LED a Laser? In other words, at what power level does an LED become required to meet the IEC 825 standard? Are there industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ Kathy Toy _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ Safety Compliance Engineer _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/Office/Voice Mail:(650)786-3210 _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ Dept. FAX: (650)786-3723 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Email:kathy@eng.sun.com M I C R O S Y S T E M S --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For
RE: EN 55024 Immunity testing
Kurt, There are unfortunately no short cuts with regard to acquiring the information contained in EN related standards. If your company is serious about understanding the requirements they need to purchase not only EN55024 but all the referenced standards as well. But tell them to look on the bright side, the cost of the standards will pale by comparison to the cost of test equipment, ongoing calibration, and actually getting your product in compliance. Don Rhodes InFocus Corporation Principal EMC Engineer (503) 685-8588 voice (503) 685-8887 fax -Original Message- From: Andrews, Kurt [mailto:kandr...@tracewell.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:34 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: EN 55024 Immunity testing Importance: High Group, I have been asked to come up with information on what is involved in EN 55024 Immunity testing. Specifically what are the various voltages, currents, etc. used for each test. I do not have a copy of the standard and my company does not want to purchase it at this time. For instance I know that one of the tests involves zapping the EUT with an ESD charge, but I don't know the voltages/currents involved. I also know that the input power is subjected to various dips and drops, but again I don't know the specifics. If anyone in the group could come up with all of the various test voltages, currents, etc. for all of the EN 55024 tests it would be very much appreciated. A web site with the same information would also be great. If it would take too much research to come up with this information (as I suspect), let me know and maybe I can justify our purchase of the standard. Thanks, Kurt Andrews Compliance Engineer Tracewell Systems, Inc. 567 Enterprise Drive Westerville, Ohio 43081 voice: 614.846.6175 toll free: 800.848.4525 fax: 614.846.7791 http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Thanks for all the advice
Thanks to all who responded to my UL1950 desparate cry for help regarding interpretation of the clauses under 4.4. To summarize : (Rich) : Sub-clauses 4.4.3.2 through 4.4.3.6 are specific requirements for parts inside a fire enclosure, invoked by the compliance statement of 4.4.3.1. (Sub-clauses 4.4.3.2 through 4.4.3.6 do not have individual compliance statements; therefore, the sub-clauses define requirements for compliance to 4.4.3.1!) - Everybody agreed with this interpretation (except for the test house ! ). (Kaz) Is it possible that the exemptions under 1950, 3rd, cl. 4.4.3.2 .7th hyphenated item dealing with abnormal testing per 5.4.6 to prove in no issues could be applied? - Sorry Kaz, 5.4.6 applies to electrical components, not foam. Good try though. (George) box within a box - good logic. It is actually a box connected to a box - the LPS sources are extenal to this enclosure. Several folks mentioned the small parts criteria - unfortunately it wasn't THAT small. And finally, thanks to Rich again for putting it so succinctly.. Remember, you ALWAYS have the alternative of testing! Incidentally, the agency allowed it under engineering judgement, pending verification of LPS power sources. (Insert iron-clad disclaimer here that excuses my employer from any liability now and forever due to my personal opinions) Doug Massey Safety Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. Norcross, GA., USA Ph. (770) 447-4224 x3607 FAX (770) 447-6928 e-mail: masse...@lxe.com Cruise our website at: http:\\www.lxe.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Correction - When is an LED evaluated to IEC 825, like a Las er?
IEC 825 is now IEC 60825 and it has been adopted in the EU as EN 60825. Compliance to the EN is mandatory for all products subject to the Low Voltage Directive. Thus, a PC with an LED on the floppy drive must comply. Other countries have other legal requirements. For example, the FDA in the US regulates lasers but has no requirements for LEDs. Concerning color of an indicator, generally for most equipment, any color may be used including red as long as safety is not affected. This was covered in a thread a couple of weeks ago and someone mentioned that there were different requirements for medical equipment. Richard Woods -- From: Kathy Toy [SMTP:kathy@eng.sun.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:05 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Correction - When is an LED evaluated to IEC 825, like a Laser? (I restated the question.) Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. Question: When does an LED need to be evaluated to IEC 825 standard? Are there any other industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Test lab with 5uH LISN's at 150Adc
I am having troubles locating a lab on the west coast that can do CISPR25 conducted emissions on a DC port that has 150Adc current draw, because no-one seems to have a pair of 5uH LISN's rated that high. I am ordering some but with the lead-time I've been quoted I need a contract lab in the meantime. We are in Vancouver, BC, so anything on the west coast would be great. The way things are going, I may be happy just to find one anywhere at all! Thanks for your help. Regards, Jim Eichner Sr. Regulatory Compliance Engineer Mobile Markets Xantrex Technology Inc. Email: jim.eich...@xantrex.com Website: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
EN 55024 Immunity Testing
Thanks very much to all who responded to my request for information on EN 55024. I now have all of the information that I need. Whenever I have a compliance question I can always count on this group to come up with the answers. Thanks again. Kurt Andrews Compliance Engineer Tracewell Systems, Inc. 567 Enterprise Drive Westerville, Ohio 43081 voice: 614.846.6175 toll free: 800.848.4525 fax: 614.846.7791 http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: RTTE PTT Notification
Thanks for blazing the trail, Sam. Did you run into any quirks in other EEA countries? Richard Woods -- From: Wismer, Sam [SMTP:wisme...@lxe.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:04 PM To: wo...@sensormatic.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RTTE PTT Notification Hi Richard, Yes that was me. For our 2.4GHZ equipment, I made notification to the RegTP declaring complaince to the essential requirements of the RTTE Directive as required by Article 6.4 of the directive. The response I received back was that it was necessary to declare complaince to their national standard, BAPT 222 ZV 126 in this case, as well as the ETS standards(ETS 300 328). I thought this to be in violation of the directive and thus European law and asked my notified body for advice. They too thought this to be a violation of the directive and agreed to look into the matter. I never heard back from them on this issue. I went ahead and re-issued my notification form declaring compliance to both standards since after review, I found them to be technically equivalent. ~ Sam Wismer RF Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. (770) 447-4224 Ext. 3654 Visit Our Website at: http://www.lxe.com http://www.lxe.com -Original Message- From: wo...@sensormatic.com [ mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com ] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:29 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RTTE PTT Notification We are about to begin our RTTE notification process to the various PTTs in the EEA member countries. I read on this forum that Germany requires declaration to their national standard and not an ETSI standard. Are there any countries that have special requirements for the notification? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Correction - When is an LED evaluated to IEC 825, like a Laser?
(I restated the question.) Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. Question: When does an LED need to be evaluated to IEC 825 standard? Are there any other industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: RTTE PTT Notification
Hi Richard, Yes that was me. For our 2.4GHZ equipment, I made notification to the RegTP declaring complaince to the essential requirements of the RTTE Directive as required by Article 6.4 of the directive. The response I received back was that it was necessary to declare complaince to their national standard, BAPT 222 ZV 126 in this case, as well as the ETS standards(ETS 300 328). I thought this to be in violation of the directive and thus European law and asked my notified body for advice. They too thought this to be a violation of the directive and agreed to look into the matter. I never heard back from them on this issue. I went ahead and re-issued my notification form declaring compliance to both standards since after review, I found them to be technically equivalent. ~ Sam Wismer RF Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. (770) 447-4224 Ext. 3654 Visit Our Website at: http://www.lxe.com http://www.lxe.com -Original Message- From: wo...@sensormatic.com [ mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com ] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:29 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RTTE PTT Notification We are about to begin our RTTE notification process to the various PTTs in the EEA member countries. I read on this forum that Germany requires declaration to their national standard and not an ETSI standard. Are there any countries that have special requirements for the notification? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: EN 55024 Immunity testing
Kurt, You should also be aware that the EN 55024 standard refers to another eight or more standards (ESD, Radiated RF, Electrical Fast Transients, Surge, Conducted Field Immunity, Magnetic Fields and Voltage Dips / Interruptions and EN 55022 for definitions) Larry Stillings Compliance Worldwide, Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
When is an LED a Laser?
Kathy, I am no expert on IEC 60825, but may help a little. The standard is intended to prevent human exposure to light energy within specified wavelengths. It initially focused only on laser safety, because lasers represent a beam of focused energy, i.e. more uW per area. An LED is not a laser, but merely a light source. When this light is collimated and concentrated into a single beam, then it is a laser. LEDs were added to the scope of IEC 60825 to ensure that the output of any LEDs (laser or not) would be within acceptable exposure limits. In general, common LEDs used for operator panel indicators distribute their light energy over a roughly hemi-spherical surface, although not equally. In most cases, there is insufficient energy in any vector to cause an exposure problem. George -- Forwarded by George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark on 10/05/2000 01:31 PM --- kathy.toy%eng.sun@interlock.lexmark.com on 10/05/2000 01:08:52 PM Please respond to kathy.toy%eng.sun@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc: kathy.toy%eng.sun@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: When is an LED a Laser? Hi: Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. My question: When is an LED a Laser? In other words, at what power level does an LED become required to meet the IEC 825 standard? Are there industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ Kathy Toy _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ Safety Compliance Engineer _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ Office/Voice Mail:(650)786-3210 _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ Dept. FAX: (650)786-3723 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Email:kathy@eng.sun.com M I C R O S Y S T E M S --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: When is an LED a Laser?
IEC 825 covers emissions from LEDs and lasers. They devices use different technologies; however, the limits apply to both LEDs and lasers. Richard Woods -- From: Kathy Toy [SMTP:kathy@eng.sun.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:09 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: kathy@eng.sun.com Subject: When is an LED a Laser? Hi: Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. My question: When is an LED a Laser? In other words, at what power level does an LED become required to meet the IEC 825 standard? Are there industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/Kathy Toy _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ Safety Compliance Engineer _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ Office/Voice Mail:(650)786-3210 _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ Dept. FAX: (650)786-3723 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/Email:kathy@eng.sun.com M I C R O S Y S T E M S --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electron Flow
I feel compelled to interject, having some experience in the area of lightning.
It's true that the majority of lightning return strokes are negative. However,
positive return strokes, usually occurring toward the end of a storm, do occur.
They also tend to have a larger magnitude, on average, than the more common
negative return strokes.
DB
--
From: pwmc...@ra.rockwell.com[SMTP:pwmc...@ra.rockwell.com]
Reply To: pwmc...@ra.rockwell.com
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:46 AM
To: Lichtenstein, Ross
Cc: 'Barry Ma'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Electron Flow
Barry,
I believe Ross is right for the last and larger half (LARGER half??
{poetic license}) of a lightning strike. As I understand the current
lightning model the initial strike is a positive Leader coming from the
cloud to the ground. The Leader is a thin column of air that has been
ionized by the excessive potential between the cloud and ground. The
electrons move back towards the cloud, the positive air (nitrogen, oxygen,
water vapor, etc.) ions move towards the ground breaking down the air and
creating more ions as they go. The path is dependant on the instantaneous
breakdown potential of the closest air molecules to the leader causing the
characteristic jagged nature as it comes down. Once the leader reaches the
earth (tree, building, dirt...) The excess electrons rush back to the cloud
along the ionzed leader.
The lightening is a positive stroke downward followed by a large
Negative stroke upwards.
Paul McCoy
Lichtenstein, Ross ross.lichtenst...@owenscorning.com@ieee.org on
10/05/2000 09:54:21 AM
Please respond to Lichtenstein, Ross ross.lichtenst...@owenscorning.com
Sent by: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org
To: 'Barry Ma' barry...@altavista.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
cc:
Subject: RE: Electron Flow
Barry,
I could be wrong, and if so I would stand corrected, but from my basic
electronics training,
I recall that electron flow is from negative to positive.
I also recall being taught that lightning actually travels from earth (neg.
charge) upward
to the positive charge of the clouds. Then there is also the case of
lightning between clouds
of opposite charge, and again the electron flow direction is from neg. to
pos.
Ross
-Original Message-
From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:58 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: ESD Opportunities
Please allow me to ask a relevant question only for curiosity.
We have no idea of what charge (positive or negative) would go to the DUT
in
ordinary ESD.
That's why we have to test two polarities in ESD immunity test.
Lightning is a kind of ESD happened between a charged cloud and objects on
earth surface. Some figures imply that an electron current flows from the
charged cloud to the earth. Is it possible to have an opposite direction -
electron flows from earth to cloud?
Thanks.
Barry Ma
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RE: Suitability of X2 Capacitors as Basic Insulation
Hello Peter: According to IEC 384-14, the capacitor types suitable to bridge BASIC INSULATION are Y2, Y3, or Y4 capacitors. According to the voltages you specify, a Y4 cap would be suitable. The thing to keep in mind here is clause 1.5.3 of IEC 384-14, which defined an X capacitor as: A capacitor...of a type suitable for use in situations where failure of the capacitor...WOULD NOT lead to danger of electric shock. Also, clause 1.5.1 of EN 60950 - Where safety is involved, components shall comply with either the requirements of this standard or with the safety aspects of the relevant IEC component standards. Based on your voltages, it appears that you are dealing with a DC distribuition system such as you would find in a Central Officeam I correct in assuming that this is TNV? (It could not be SELV as you are up to 72VDC). If so, then your question no doubt is embedded with concerns from clause 6.3.3 of EN 60950, UL 1950/CSA 950, etc. I have had conversations with various agencies on this issue in the past...some UL engineers I spoken with are of the opinion that any capacitor could be used in this situation so long as the equipment passes the Electric Strength test requirements. However, a number of labs in Europe insist on Y2 capacitors in this situation. My recomendation would be, assuming that my assumptions on the details of your application are correct: 1) Use at least a Y2 capacitor if the geographical area in which the equipment will be installed has a nominal mains supply voltage of greater than 150Vrms. 2) Use at least a Y4 capacitor if the geographical area in which the equipment will be installed has a nominal mains supply voltage of less than 150Vrms. Hope this helps... Regards, Mel mailto:mpeder...@midcom-inc.com -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:28 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Suitability of X2 Capacitors as Basic Insulation Is it possible to use a 250 Vac X2 approved capacitor as a y capacitor (input to ground) for a unit with an input voltage of 48/60Vdc up to 72Vdc? In other words, is an X2 capacitor suitable for basic insulation? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org attachment: Mel_Pedersen_(vcard)_(E-mail).vcf
When is an LED a Laser?
Hi: Our design engineers are using LED more often and have been asked if the LED are approved by IEC 825. My question: When is an LED a Laser? In other words, at what power level does an LED become required to meet the IEC 825 standard? Are there industry limits for specific LEDs? It seems that in the past LEDs were basicly ignored except for color issues. What is the current thought or rule on this issue? Thanks in advance, kt _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/Kathy Toy _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ Safety Compliance Engineer _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ Office/Voice Mail:(650)786-3210 _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ Dept. FAX: (650)786-3723 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/Email:kathy@eng.sun.com M I C R O S Y S T E M S --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: EN 55024 Immunity testing
There is more to it than just the levels, Kurt. You must also know how what test equipment is needed, the test set up, the test conditions and the pass/fail criteria. For that you will need this standard and one basic standard for each of the tests. Richard Woods -- From: Andrews, Kurt [SMTP:kandr...@tracewell.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: EN 55024 Immunity testing Importance: High Group, I have been asked to come up with information on what is involved in EN 55024 Immunity testing. Specifically what are the various voltages, currents, etc. used for each test. I do not have a copy of the standard and my company does not want to purchase it at this time. For instance I know that one of the tests involves zapping the EUT with an ESD charge, but I don't know the voltages/currents involved. I also know that the input power is subjected to various dips and drops, but again I don't know the specifics. If anyone in the group could come up with all of the various test voltages, currents, etc. for all of the EN 55024 tests it would be very much appreciated. A web site with the same information would also be great. If it would take too much research to come up with this information (as I suspect), let me know and maybe I can justify our purchase of the standard. Thanks, Kurt Andrews Compliance Engineer Tracewell Systems, Inc. 567 Enterprise Drive Westerville, Ohio 43081 voice: 614.846.6175 toll free: 800.848.4525 fax: 614.846.7791 http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: RTTE PTT Notification
It is my understanding that the UK wants information on the modulation used and the ITU classifcation. Other than that I have not heard of anything else from any other country (including Germany).has anyone else heard of country specials and the RTTE? === wo...@sensormatic.com on 10/05/2000 08:29:15 AM Please respond to wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) Subject: RTTE PTT Notification We are about to begin our RTTE notification process to the various PTTs in the EEA member countries. I read on this forum that Germany requires declaration to their national standard and not an ETSI standard. Are there any countries that have special requirements for the notification? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electron Flow
Barry,
I believe Ross is right for the last and larger half (LARGER half??
{poetic license}) of a lightning strike. As I understand the current
lightning model the initial strike is a positive Leader coming from the
cloud to the ground. The Leader is a thin column of air that has been
ionized by the excessive potential between the cloud and ground. The
electrons move back towards the cloud, the positive air (nitrogen, oxygen,
water vapor, etc.) ions move towards the ground breaking down the air and
creating more ions as they go. The path is dependant on the instantaneous
breakdown potential of the closest air molecules to the leader causing the
characteristic jagged nature as it comes down. Once the leader reaches the
earth (tree, building, dirt...) The excess electrons rush back to the cloud
along the ionzed leader.
The lightening is a positive stroke downward followed by a large
Negative stroke upwards.
Paul McCoy
Lichtenstein, Ross ross.lichtenst...@owenscorning.com@ieee.org on
10/05/2000 09:54:21 AM
Please respond to Lichtenstein, Ross ross.lichtenst...@owenscorning.com
Sent by: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org
To: 'Barry Ma' barry...@altavista.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
cc:
Subject: RE: Electron Flow
Barry,
I could be wrong, and if so I would stand corrected, but from my basic
electronics training,
I recall that electron flow is from negative to positive.
I also recall being taught that lightning actually travels from earth (neg.
charge) upward
to the positive charge of the clouds. Then there is also the case of
lightning between clouds
of opposite charge, and again the electron flow direction is from neg. to
pos.
Ross
-Original Message-
From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:58 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: ESD Opportunities
Please allow me to ask a relevant question only for curiosity.
We have no idea of what charge (positive or negative) would go to the DUT
in
ordinary ESD.
That's why we have to test two polarities in ESD immunity test.
Lightning is a kind of ESD happened between a charged cloud and objects on
earth surface. Some figures imply that an electron current flows from the
charged cloud to the earth. Is it possible to have an opposite direction -
electron flows from earth to cloud?
Thanks.
Barry Ma
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EN 55024 Immunity testing
Group, I have been asked to come up with information on what is involved in EN 55024 Immunity testing. Specifically what are the various voltages, currents, etc. used for each test. I do not have a copy of the standard and my company does not want to purchase it at this time. For instance I know that one of the tests involves zapping the EUT with an ESD charge, but I don't know the voltages/currents involved. I also know that the input power is subjected to various dips and drops, but again I don't know the specifics. If anyone in the group could come up with all of the various test voltages, currents, etc. for all of the EN 55024 tests it would be very much appreciated. A web site with the same information would also be great. If it would take too much research to come up with this information (as I suspect), let me know and maybe I can justify our purchase of the standard. Thanks, Kurt Andrews Compliance Engineer Tracewell Systems, Inc. 567 Enterprise Drive Westerville, Ohio 43081 voice: 614.846.6175 toll free: 800.848.4525 fax: 614.846.7791 http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electron Flow
Here we go...this ought to be good. Richard Hunt Engineering Services Manager Direct: (818) 678-3860 Canoga Perkins Corp. Main:(818) 718-6300 20600 Prairie Street FAX: (818) 678-3760 Chatsworth CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rh...@canoga.com rh...@canoga.com -Original Message- From: Lichtenstein, Ross [mailto:ross.lichtenst...@owenscorning.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 7:54 AM To: 'Barry Ma'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: Electron Flow Barry, I could be wrong, and if so I would stand corrected, but from my basic electronics training, I recall that electron flow is from negative to positive. I also recall being taught that lightning actually travels from earth (neg. charge) upward to the positive charge of the clouds. Then there is also the case of lightning between clouds of opposite charge, and again the electron flow direction is from neg. to pos. Ross -Original Message- From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:58 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD Opportunities Please allow me to ask a relevant question only for curiosity. We have no idea of what charge (positive or negative) would go to the DUT in ordinary ESD. That's why we have to test two polarities in ESD immunity test. Lightning is a kind of ESD happened between a charged cloud and objects on earth surface. Some figures imply that an electron current flows from the charged cloud to the earth. Is it possible to have an opposite direction - electron flows from earth to cloud? Thanks. Barry Ma ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electron Flow
I came across an interesting reference. It appears that charge flow is both directions. See http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/eee2proj/rtal97/physics.html especially Figure 5 at the bottom of the webpage. -- From: Lichtenstein, Ross[SMTP:ross.lichtenst...@owenscorning.com] Reply To: Lichtenstein, Ross Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 10:54 AM To: 'Barry Ma'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Electron Flow Barry, I could be wrong, and if so I would stand corrected, but from my basic electronics training, I recall that electron flow is from negative to positive. I also recall being taught that lightning actually travels from earth (neg. charge) upward to the positive charge of the clouds. Then there is also the case of lightning between clouds of opposite charge, and again the electron flow direction is from neg. to pos. Ross -Original Message- From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:58 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD Opportunities Please allow me to ask a relevant question only for curiosity. We have no idea of what charge (positive or negative) would go to the DUT in ordinary ESD. That's why we have to test two polarities in ESD immunity test. Lightning is a kind of ESD happened between a charged cloud and objects on earth surface. Some figures imply that an electron current flows from the charged cloud to the earth. Is it possible to have an opposite direction - electron flows from earth to cloud? Thanks. Barry Ma ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: UL 508 C
Hi Rafael, I don't know how to exactly align UL 508C to an IEC equivalent, although some of the learned members of this forum are sure to have suggestions. Mine would be to contact UL. UL is well connected with a European agency and so I'm assuming they would likely be able to supply the information fairly quickly. Good Luck. My opinion and not that of Sanmina Canada. Regards, Kaz Gawrzyjal Sr. Product Safety Engineer -- Sanmina Canada ULC Wireless Development Centre 2924 11 Street NE Calgary, Alberta Canada, T2E 7L7 tel:403-769-4805 (ESN 758) fax:403-769-4813 (ESN 758) e-mail: k...@nortelnetworks.com Sanmina Canada ULC does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. *** -Original Message- From: Rafael González [mailto:rgonza...@cetecom.es] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:49 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: UL 508 C Importance: High Sensitivity: Personal Dear Sirs, How can I know the equivalent IEC standard of the UL 508 C ? Thanks very mush for your time and collaboration. Rafael González Licerán Area Seguridad Eléctrica rgonzál...@cetecom.es _ CENTRO DE TECNOLOGIA DE LAS COMUNICACIONES, S.A. PTA - C/Severo Ochoa 2, 29590 Campanillas (Málaga) Tel: 34 952619100 - Fax: 34 952619113 - Web: http://www.cetecom.es/ _ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electron Flow
Barry, I could be wrong, and if so I would stand corrected, but from my basic electronics training, I recall that electron flow is from negative to positive. I also recall being taught that lightning actually travels from earth (neg. charge) upward to the positive charge of the clouds. Then there is also the case of lightning between clouds of opposite charge, and again the electron flow direction is from neg. to pos. Ross -Original Message- From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:58 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD Opportunities Please allow me to ask a relevant question only for curiosity. We have no idea of what charge (positive or negative) would go to the DUT in ordinary ESD. That's why we have to test two polarities in ESD immunity test. Lightning is a kind of ESD happened between a charged cloud and objects on earth surface. Some figures imply that an electron current flows from the charged cloud to the earth. Is it possible to have an opposite direction - electron flows from earth to cloud? Thanks. Barry Ma ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
UL 508 C
Dear Sirs, How can I know the equivalent IEC standard of the UL 508 C ? Thanks very mush for your time and collaboration. Rafael González Licerán Area Seguridad Eléctrica rgonzál...@cetecom.es _ CENTRO DE TECNOLOGIA DE LAS COMUNICACIONES, S.A. PTA - C/Severo Ochoa 2, 29590 Campanillas (Málaga) Tel: 34 952619100 - Fax: 34 952619113 - Web: http://www.cetecom.es/ _ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Power Line Voltages
Randy: Try: http://www.clary.com/Service/IntVoltage.asp http://kropla.com/electric.htm Regards, Ed :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) -Original Message- From: Flinders, Randall [mailto:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:00 PM To: emc-pstc Subject: Power Line Voltages Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
An article regarding EN 61000-3-2 and EN 61000-3-3
Guys, One of the recent Conformity updates had an article on these standards. Follow the link below: http://www.conformity-update.com/iec-61000-000908.htm Just another piece to add. Thanks, Chris Maxwell, Design Engineer GN Nettest Optical Division 6 Rhoads Drive, Building 4 Utica, NY 13502 PH: 315-797-4449 FAX: 315-797-8024 EMAIL: chr...@gnlp.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Power Line Voltages
Try the US Dept of Commerce. They have a pamphlet titled Electric Current Abroad which should give you all the information you need. It can be ordered from their website for $5.00 in hardcopy. I believe it is also available electronically from the same site. John P. Wagner AVAYA Communication 11900 N. Pecos St, Room 2F58 Denver CO 80234 email: johnwag...@avaya.com phone: 303 538-4241 fax: 303 538-5211 -- From: Flinders, Randall[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Reply To: Flinders, Randall Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:00 PM To: emc-pstc Subject: Power Line Voltages File: Randall.Flinders.vcf Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Power Line Voltages
Web sites - try: http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm http://www.interpower.com/guide.htm http://www.quail.com/locator/index.html Books: Electric Current Abroad - US Dept of Commerce, 1-800-553-NTIS, or http://www.ntis.gov the order number is PB98-193383 I think California Instruments: Current Guide for World Power (1993), 1-800-4AC-POWER, FREE! Availability? Good Luck! -Original Message- From: Flinders, Randall [mailto:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 7:00 PM To: emc-pstc Subject: Power Line Voltages Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RTTE PTT Notification
We are about to begin our RTTE notification process to the various PTTs in the EEA member countries. I read on this forum that Germany requires declaration to their national standard and not an ETSI standard. Are there any countries that have special requirements for the notification? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Standards hierarchy
Exactly, CENELEC has a full blown case of conflicting standards. Gert has gone the extra step to contact Mr DeVre. This provides us with another piece of information. But it doesn't give us CENELEC's official position. I consider it equivalent to getting the opinion of one justice of the Supreme Court. It's a great piece of information, but it's not law. I can follow his reasoning, and I think I should, just to be on the safe side. The problem is, it doesn't provide a long term solution to the existing standards discrepancy. That's why I beleive that CENELEC or one of their technical committes should pull their heads out of.. um ... the sand...and issue a simple press release to give an official position. Along with that, I would like to see them decide on a clear cut path to end these discrepancies. Either they decide to amend EN 61326-1 (and other conflicting standards) or they decide to move EN 61000-3-2 and -3 back to Basic Standards. That's the only true solution that would prevent us from needing to revisit this problem again. We should expect these types of discrepancies to occur. So many documents are published in the OJ that it's almost impossible to get them all to co-exist without conflicting requirements. That's why we can use the opinions of the Mr DeVre's and other Competent Bodies of the world to help with interpretation in order to clear up the confusion, temporarily. However, I think CENELEC needs to address these discrepancies as they are found. I believe that that's why Amendments were invented. Later -Original Message- From: Jim Eichner [SMTP:jim.eich...@xantrex.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 8:39 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy OK now I'm really confused. It suddenly hit me that I thought publication in the OJ conferred presumption of conformity with the essential requirements!!! End of sentence, full stop. Silly me, I must stop standing so close to the microwave. Are we really in a situation where there are standards being published in the OJ that do NOT address all of the essential requirements and are therefore not sufficient on their own? This seems to be what Gert's Mr. DeVre is saying, and if so the system is downright out of control. I assert that despite Mr. DeVre's comments, a standard that has been published in the OJ as applicable under the EMC Directive gives presumption of conformity with the essential requirements of that directive, and is therefore, by definition, sufficient without the use of further standards. Am I wrong!? Further comments please! Thanks, Jim Suddenly flipping burgers for $5/hr doesn't sound so bad. -Original Message- From: eric.lif...@ni.com [mailto:eric.lif...@ni.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 11:49 AM To: CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... Cc: Maxwell, Chris; 'Jim Eichner'; 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy Gert et al, [Critical comments re CEN removed in an attempt to maintain a professional attitude.] Can't we just recind all of these silly redundant product family standards if they are truely just informative supplements to the Generics? I'm getting tired of retesting and then rewriting hundreds of DoCs. Regards, Eric Lifsey Compliance Manager (And a miserable author of about 400 DoCs.) National Instruments Please respond to CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... cet...@cetest.nl To: Maxwell, Chris chr...@gnlp.com, 'Jim Eichner' jim.eich...@xantrex.com, 'EMC-PSTC - forum' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC) Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy I remember to have contributed to this discussion before, and I have asked this question at the time to Robert DeVre, who is actually the EMC-consultant of the European Committee. His opinion -close to European law- (abbreviated) : == Any product or product family standard that tries to exclude any category of tests (f or categories see f.a. the generic) is actually creating a non-compliance situation for the equipment in question, as it does not comply to the essential requirements of the EMC-directive. == Do not forget that complying to a standard creates only presumption of conformity to the essential requirements. The standard writing committee did bad service to the market creating a standard trying to create an escape route. The EC ( by voice of Mr. DeVre) has contacted CENELEC to make this standard comply with the Essential requirements of the EMC-directive. Please note that there is a report available to all national committees that are charged with standards writing, that explains to what requirements future harmonized standards should comply to be acceptable to the EC and create (true) presumption of compliance for users actually using them. This technical report is numbered
Band reject filters
Can anyone recommend sources for band reject filters for 2.45 GHz? regards, Ari Honkala --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Standards hierarchy
I support your belief, Jim. The safeguard clause provides the member states with the ability to halt a product from being placed on the market due to a faulty standard. If that happens the Commission must quickly consult with all parties and make a decision of the status of the standard. I have not heard of this action ever being taken. Richard Woods -- From: Jim Eichner [SMTP:jim.eich...@xantrex.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 8:39 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy OK now I'm really confused. It suddenly hit me that I thought publication in the OJ conferred presumption of conformity with the essential requirements!!! End of sentence, full stop. Silly me, I must stop standing so close to the microwave. Are we really in a situation where there are standards being published in the OJ that do NOT address all of the essential requirements and are therefore not sufficient on their own? This seems to be what Gert's Mr. DeVre is saying, and if so the system is downright out of control. I assert that despite Mr. DeVre's comments, a standard that has been published in the OJ as applicable under the EMC Directive gives presumption of conformity with the essential requirements of that directive, and is therefore, by definition, sufficient without the use of further standards. Am I wrong!? Further comments please! Thanks, Jim Suddenly flipping burgers for $5/hr doesn't sound so bad. -Original Message- From: eric.lif...@ni.com [mailto:eric.lif...@ni.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 11:49 AM To: CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... Cc: Maxwell, Chris; 'Jim Eichner'; 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy Gert et al, [Critical comments re CEN removed in an attempt to maintain a professional attitude.] Can't we just recind all of these silly redundant product family standards if they are truely just informative supplements to the Generics? I'm getting tired of retesting and then rewriting hundreds of DoCs. Regards, Eric Lifsey Compliance Manager (And a miserable author of about 400 DoCs.) National Instruments Please respond to CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... cet...@cetest.nl To: Maxwell, Chris chr...@gnlp.com, 'Jim Eichner' jim.eich...@xantrex.com, 'EMC-PSTC - forum' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC) Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy I remember to have contributed to this discussion before, and I have asked this question at the time to Robert DeVre, who is actually the EMC-consultant of the European Committee. His opinion -close to European law- (abbreviated) : == Any product or product family standard that tries to exclude any category of tests (f or categories see f.a. the generic) is actually creating a non-compliance situation for the equipment in question, as it does not comply to the essential requirements of the EMC-directive. == Do not forget that complying to a standard creates only presumption of conformity to the essential requirements. The standard writing committee did bad service to the market creating a standard trying to create an escape route. The EC ( by voice of Mr. DeVre) has contacted CENELEC to make this standard comply with the Essential requirements of the EMC-directive. Please note that there is a report available to all national committees that are charged with standards writing, that explains to what requirements future harmonized standards should comply to be acceptable to the EC and create (true) presumption of compliance for users actually using them. This technical report is numbered R210-001 (at least the version I have in front of me) and is issued by the CENELEC. It's purpose is to advise standard writing committees in: - advice on the application of generic and basic emc standards - advise on the preparation of product family or dedicated product emc standards. Please note that the compliance for product standards to this report is part of the agreement that CENELEC will prepare standards for the EC to comply with EMCD. (as CENELEC is private and EMCD is law) This report has a summary of phenomena that product and product family standards should cover: creating limits, or create a decent rationale why not. In addition: for assessment of compliance with
Re: Power Line Voltages
Randy, I know that you already received a couple of sites but I've noticed that different sites have different data. Most of it is in agreement but some of it is not. Here are several that I use to compare. http://www.panelcomponents.com/guide.htm http://www.quail.com/locator/index.html http://www.clary.com/Service/IntVoltage.asp http://kropla.com/electric.htm http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/electricord/technical.pdf When I can't come to a confortable consensus I contact the embassay for that country. http://www.embassyworld.com/directories/International_Voltages.html Please realize that some of these are commercial sites and have products to sell. I find that some of these tend to have better and more accurate information. They have good reason to keep current (excuse the pun). Hope this helps. Oscar randall.flinders%emulex@interlock.lexmark.com on 10/04/2000 08:00:06 PM Please respond to randall.flinders%emulex@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Power Line Voltages Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org attachment: Randall.Flinders.vcf
RE: Standards hierarchy
Hello Jim, group You are fully right. A standard not covering a certain EMC subject, or whitening it out due to whatever reason but physical/technical (such as a filament lamp not being susceptible) still owes the presumption of compliance but the presumption will not hold in court. After all , presumption is not proof !! BTW it happens all the time that we are needing more then one emc standard . For ITE we need 4: EN 55022 / EN 55024 / EN 61000-3-2 / EN 61000-3-4. We automatically add the other 3 as we conclude that the first one did not cover certain phenomena. What's new here is that the EC does not recognize the right of OJEC published standards to white out certain test requirements because some lobby decided that it was not in their interest to cover this. In fact the EC is targeting the CENELEC for creating insufficient quality standards (in this case) and not you as a manufacturer presuming compliance. Therefore, you will get away with such a standard - for the time being. I think the principal of essential requirements has still not been fully understood !! Regards, Gert Gremmen, (Ing) ce-test, qualified testing === Web presence http://www.cetest.nl CE-shop http://www.cetest.nl/ce_shop.htm /-/ Compliance testing is our core business /-/ === -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Jim Eichner Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:39 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy OK now I'm really confused. It suddenly hit me that I thought publication in the OJ conferred presumption of conformity with the essential requirements!!! End of sentence, full stop. Silly me, I must stop standing so close to the microwave. Are we really in a situation where there are standards being published in the OJ that do NOT address all of the essential requirements and are therefore not sufficient on their own? This seems to be what Gert's Mr. DeVre is saying, and if so the system is downright out of control. I assert that despite Mr. DeVre's comments, a standard that has been published in the OJ as applicable under the EMC Directive gives presumption of conformity with the essential requirements of that directive, and is therefore, by definition, sufficient without the use of further standards. Am I wrong!? Further comments please! Thanks, Jim Suddenly flipping burgers for $5/hr doesn't sound so bad. -Original Message- From: eric.lif...@ni.com [mailto:eric.lif...@ni.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 11:49 AM To: CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... Cc: Maxwell, Chris; 'Jim Eichner'; 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy Gert et al, [Critical comments re CEN removed in an attempt to maintain a professional attitude.] Can't we just recind all of these silly redundant product family standards if they are truely just informative supplements to the Generics? I'm getting tired of retesting and then rewriting hundreds of DoCs. Regards, Eric Lifsey Compliance Manager (And a miserable author of about 400 DoCs.) National Instruments Please respond to CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... cet...@cetest.nl To: Maxwell, Chris chr...@gnlp.com, 'Jim Eichner' jim.eich...@xantrex.com, 'EMC-PSTC - forum' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC) Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy I remember to have contributed to this discussion before, and I have asked this question at the time to Robert DeVre, who is actually the EMC-consultant of the European Committee. His opinion -close to European law- (abbreviated) : == Any product or product family standard that tries to exclude any category of tests (f or categories see f.a. the generic) is actually creating a non-compliance situation for the equipment in question, as it does not comply to the essential requirements of the EMC-directive. == Do not forget that complying to a standard creates only presumption of conformity to the essential requirements. The standard writing committee did bad service to the market creating a standard trying to create an escape route. The EC ( by voice of Mr. DeVre) has contacted CENELEC to make this standard comply with the Essential requirements of the EMC-directive. Please note that there is a report available to all national committees that are charged with standards writing, that explains to what requirements future harmonized standards should comply to be acceptable to the EC and create (true) presumption of compliance for users actually using them. This technical report is numbered R210-001 (at least the version I have in front of me) and is issued by the CENELEC. It's purpose is to advise standard writing committees in: - advice on the application of generic and basic emc standards - advise on the preparation of product family or dedicated product emc
Sept. 29, 2000 Conformity-Update Now Available
Conformity-Update for the week ending Sept. 29, 2000 is now available at: http://www.conformity-update.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Suitability of X2 Capacitors as Basic Insulation
Is it possible to use a 250 Vac X2 approved capacitor as a y capacitor (input to ground) for a unit with an input voltage of 48/60Vdc up to 72Vdc? In other words, is an X2 capacitor suitable for basic insulation? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Power Line Voltages
Electric Current Abroad is still available. The last issue I saw was 1998. You can order a copy from the following web site: http://www.claitors.com/prf/catelog/003-009-00673-2.html Regards, +=+ |Ronald R. Wellman|Voice : 408-345-8229 | |Agilent Technologies |FAX : 408-345-8630 | |5301 Stevens Creek Blvd.,|E-Mail: ron_well...@agilent.com| |Mailstop 54L-SQ |WWW : http://www.agilent.com | |Santa Clara, California 95052 USA| | +=+ | Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age | | eighteen. - Albert Einstein | +=+ -Original Message- From: Flinders, Randall [mailto:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:00 PM To: emc-pstc Subject: Power Line Voltages Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Power Line Voltages
Hi Randy, Try this link. http://www.ets-tele.com/tics/global/volt_freq.htm http://www.ets-tele.com/tics/global/volt_freq.htm Regards, Cameron O'Phee. EMC Safety Precompliance. Aristocrat Technologies Australia. Telephone : +61 2 9697 4420 Facsimile : +61 2 9663 1412 Mobile : 0418 464 016 -Original Message- From: Flinders, Randall [mailto:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Sent: 5 October 2000 11:00 To: emc-pstc Subject:Power Line Voltages File: Card for Flinders, Randall Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: ESD Opportunities
Barry: I'll mostly duck the lightning question, although I think that charge may flow in either direction. Since there are cloud-to-cloud discharges, that means some mechanism must be available to create an excess of electrons in one cloud and a deficit of electrons in another. So any given cloud may be at a different potential from other clouds, and the Earth's surface too. Regarding the ESD event. I used to wonder why we needed to use two polarities? It seems like there should be a symmetry in that the current flow is identical regardless of which way the electrons are moving. But the ESD event affects more than the point of discharge; the currents must flow through the EUT until the charges are equalized (discharged). And as the currents flow, they create voltages across devices which may be polarity sensitive. Now that brings up the question of whether (in real life) objects become positively or negatively charged. Does walking across a floor, blowing air across a surface, separating two sheets of plastic or scratching your ear always induce one polarity of charge? Regards, Ed :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) -Original Message- From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 2:58 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD Opportunities Please allow me to ask a relevant question only for curiosity. We have no idea of what charge (positive or negative) would go to the DUT in ordinary ESD. That's why we have to test two polarities in ESD immunity test. Lightning is a kind of ESD happened between a charged cloud and objects on earth surface. Some figures imply that an electron current flows from the charged cloud to the earth. Is it possible to have an opposite direction - electron flows from earth to cloud? Thanks. Barry Ma --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Standards hierarchy
OK now I'm really confused. It suddenly hit me that I thought publication in the OJ conferred presumption of conformity with the essential requirements!!! End of sentence, full stop. Silly me, I must stop standing so close to the microwave. Are we really in a situation where there are standards being published in the OJ that do NOT address all of the essential requirements and are therefore not sufficient on their own? This seems to be what Gert's Mr. DeVre is saying, and if so the system is downright out of control. I assert that despite Mr. DeVre's comments, a standard that has been published in the OJ as applicable under the EMC Directive gives presumption of conformity with the essential requirements of that directive, and is therefore, by definition, sufficient without the use of further standards. Am I wrong!? Further comments please! Thanks, Jim Suddenly flipping burgers for $5/hr doesn't sound so bad. -Original Message- From: eric.lif...@ni.com [mailto:eric.lif...@ni.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 11:49 AM To: CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... Cc: Maxwell, Chris; 'Jim Eichner'; 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy Gert et al, [Critical comments re CEN removed in an attempt to maintain a professional attitude.] Can't we just recind all of these silly redundant product family standards if they are truely just informative supplements to the Generics? I'm getting tired of retesting and then rewriting hundreds of DoCs. Regards, Eric Lifsey Compliance Manager (And a miserable author of about 400 DoCs.) National Instruments Please respond to CE-test - Gert Gremmen Ing. - CE-mark more ... cet...@cetest.nl To: Maxwell, Chris chr...@gnlp.com, 'Jim Eichner' jim.eich...@xantrex.com, 'EMC-PSTC - forum' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC) Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy I remember to have contributed to this discussion before, and I have asked this question at the time to Robert DeVre, who is actually the EMC-consultant of the European Committee. His opinion -close to European law- (abbreviated) : == Any product or product family standard that tries to exclude any category of tests (f or categories see f.a. the generic) is actually creating a non-compliance situation for the equipment in question, as it does not comply to the essential requirements of the EMC-directive. == Do not forget that complying to a standard creates only presumption of conformity to the essential requirements. The standard writing committee did bad service to the market creating a standard trying to create an escape route. The EC ( by voice of Mr. DeVre) has contacted CENELEC to make this standard comply with the Essential requirements of the EMC-directive. Please note that there is a report available to all national committees that are charged with standards writing, that explains to what requirements future harmonized standards should comply to be acceptable to the EC and create (true) presumption of compliance for users actually using them. This technical report is numbered R210-001 (at least the version I have in front of me) and is issued by the CENELEC. It's purpose is to advise standard writing committees in: - advice on the application of generic and basic emc standards - advise on the preparation of product family or dedicated product emc standards. Please note that the compliance for product standards to this report is part of the agreement that CENELEC will prepare standards for the EC to comply with EMCD. (as CENELEC is private and EMCD is law) This report has a summary of phenomena that product and product family standards should cover: creating limits, or create a decent rationale why not. In addition: for assessment of compliance with the EMC -directive, the product family standards take precedence over the generic standards partially or totally according to the EMC domains covered. Uncovered or excluded phenomena are thus still susceptible to generic standard test requirements !!! Regards, Gert Gremmen, (Ing) ce-test, qualified testing === Web presence http://www.cetest.nl CE-shop http://www.cetest.nl/ce_shop.htm /-/ Compliance testing is our core business /-/ === -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Maxwell, Chris Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 9:57 PM To: 'Jim Eichner'; 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Standards hierarchy Jim, Yes, I'm sure that there was a collective groan when you mentioned EN 61000-3-2 and EN 61000-3-3 in your email. I wasn't part of it. I'm glad to see that someone else is still questioning what's going on with this standard. I think that your understanding of Basic Standards, Product Family Standards and Generic Standards is about as good as anybody's. I started a thread similar to this some
Re: Power Line Voltages
Hi Randy: http://kropla.com/electric.htm http://www.clary.com/Service/IntVoltage.asp http://www.quail.com/locator/index.html http://www.fele.com/empd/tech/fe-power.html http://www.panelcomponents.com/guide.htm http://www.ets-tele.com/tics/global/volt_freq.htm Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Power Line Voltages
Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org attachment: Randall.Flinders.vcf
Re: Power Line Voltages
Reference Data for Engineers has this information. A local library would have it. Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppression of Consumer Electronic Equipment (After Sale) - Original Message - From: Flinders, Randall randall.flind...@emulex.com To: emc-pstc emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 8:00 PM Subject: Power Line Voltages Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
