Re: [PSES] Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval?
Peter That is understood as the overall product standard applies (I do not have the CSA version of 60950-22), but it was only a hypothetical question, based on the original one – see the exchange of emails with John R Allen at Product Safety Inc. Regards John Allen London, UK From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: 13 November 2011 23:47 To: John Allen Cc: Michael Loerzer; IEEE PSES Subject: Re: Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval? John For these type of applications you must check if 60950-22 has specific marking requirements or refers to another CSA standard for marking and labeling system. Peter Merguerian pe...@goglobalcompliance.com Go Global Compliance Inc. www.goglobalcompliance.com (408) 931-3303 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2011, at 2:08 AM, John Allen john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Peter 60950-1 is for equipment intended for use in very “benign” environments – so what about IT for other environments where the conditions are more onerous (e.g. 6950-22 for outdoor environments) ? Regards John Allen London, UK From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Peter Merguerian Sent: 13 November 2011 04:14 To: Michael Loerzer Cc: IEEE PSES Subject: Re: Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval? Michael, Labels do not have to be approved but if not approved and suitable for the intended application will have to be separately evaluated depending on the standard. For ITE that means the label must rubbed with alcohol and water according to the Markings test in the CSA 60950-1 standard. By the way, I have encountered labels that have been CSA certified for the system ( label, adhesive and ink ) and had problem passing the 60950-1 markings test. Peter Merguerian pe...@goglobalcompliance.com Go Global Compliance Inc. www.goglobalcompliance.com (408) 931-3303 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 11, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Michael Loerzer loerzer_mob...@globalnorm.de wrote: Hello, A customer presumes that in Canada type plates as sticker shall be CSA approved. Who has a cross reference? Is that a requirement of the “CEC” or of a CSA standard? Any information (weblinks, standards refererences) are welcome. Best regards Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Managing Director Regulatory Affairs Specialist Das neue Buch zum Thema Product Compliance: http://www.beuth.de/sc/produktkonformitaet (Produktkonformität, Prozesse, Risikomanagement, CE-Kennzeichnung, Fallbeispiele für Geschäftsführung, Konstruktion, Normenabteilung, Vertrieb, Einkauf, Produktion, QM) _ Globalnorm GmbH Alt-Moabit 94 10559 Berlin Fon +49 30 3229027-51 Mobile +49 170 3229027 Fax +49 30 3229027-59 Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de http://www.globalnorm.de/ www.globalnorm.de http://www.globalnorm.ca/ www.globalnorm.ca http://www.product-compliance.com/ www.product-compliance.com _ Globalnorm GmbH, Sitz der Gesellschaft: Alt-Moabit 94, 10559 Berlin Geschäftsführer: Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg HRB 105204 B, USt-ID-Nummer: DE251654448 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4613 - Release Date: 11/12/11 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald
[PSES] Searching for a relay that can withstand IEC 60079-15 sealing requirements
Hello all, I wonder if someone can point me to a supplier who tested and passed (successfully!) the pre-conditioning requirements and bubble test in IEC 60079-15 for component sealing. The specific pre-conditioning is as follows: - 33.3.2.1: thermal endurance to heat is determined by submitting the enclosure or parts of enclosures in non-metallic materials to continuous storage for 4 weeks in an ambient of 90±5% relative humidity and at a temperature of 10C above max operating temp (70+10=80 in our case) - 33.5.3.2: test samples at an initial temperature of (25 ± 2) °C, they are suddenly immersed in water at a temperature of (65 ± 2) °C to a depth of 25 mm for 1 min. If no bubbles emerge from the samples during this test, they are considered to be sealed for the purposes of this standard The relay should be similar (form factor) to Omron G6S, NEC EC2 or NAIS TX2. Cheers, N. Shani Ottawa, ON - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] AW: Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval?
Hi, thanks for all input. I have read a handbook for UL/CSA approbals published by a Siemens approval engineer. He describes that manufacturers of type plates as “sticker” (for gluing) requires a UL-/CSA approval (UL-recognized, CSA-accepted). CSA has an additional requirement: CSA-approved stickers for gluing shall include an identification label of the manufacturer. That was a general statement in this handbook (not for a specific UL-/CSA-standard). Best regards Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Managing Director Regulatory Affairs Specialist Das neue Buch zum Thema Product Compliance: http://www.beuth.de/sc/produktkonformitaet (Produktkonformität, Prozesse, Risikomanagement, CE-Kennzeichnung, Fallbeispiele für Geschäftsführung, Konstruktion, Normenabteilung, Vertrieb, Einkauf, Produktion, QM) _ Globalnorm GmbH Alt-Moabit 94 10559 Berlin Fon +49 30 3229027-51 Mobile +49 170 3229027 Fax +49 30 3229027-59 Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de http://www.globalnorm.de/ www.globalnorm.de http://www.globalnorm.ca/ www.globalnorm.ca http://www.product-compliance.com/ www.product-compliance.com _ Globalnorm GmbH, Sitz der Gesellschaft: Alt-Moabit 94, 10559 Berlin Geschäftsführer: Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg HRB 105204 B, USt-ID-Nummer: DE251654448 Von: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Im Auftrag von John Allen Gesendet: Montag, 14. November 2011 09:14 An: 'Peter Merguerian' Cc: 'Michael Loerzer'; 'IEEE PSES' Betreff: RE: Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval? Peter That is understood as the overall product standard applies (I do not have the CSA version of 60950-22), but it was only a hypothetical question, based on the original one – see the exchange of emails with John R Allen at Product Safety Inc. Regards John Allen London, UK From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: 13 November 2011 23:47 To: John Allen Cc: Michael Loerzer; IEEE PSES Subject: Re: Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval? John For these type of applications you must check if 60950-22 has specific marking requirements or refers to another CSA standard for marking and labeling system. Peter Merguerian pe...@goglobalcompliance.com Go Global Compliance Inc. www.goglobalcompliance.com (408) 931-3303 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2011, at 2:08 AM, John Allen john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Peter 60950-1 is for equipment intended for use in very “benign” environments – so what about IT for other environments where the conditions are more onerous (e.g. 6950-22 for outdoor environments) ? Regards John Allen London, UK From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Peter Merguerian Sent: 13 November 2011 04:14 To: Michael Loerzer Cc: IEEE PSES Subject: Re: Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval? Michael, Labels do not have to be approved but if not approved and suitable for the intended application will have to be separately evaluated depending on the standard. For ITE that means the label must rubbed with alcohol and water according to the Markings test in the CSA 60950-1 standard. By the way, I have encountered labels that have been CSA certified for the system ( label, adhesive and ink ) and had problem passing the 60950-1 markings test. Peter Merguerian pe...@goglobalcompliance.com Go Global Compliance Inc. www.goglobalcompliance.com (408) 931-3303 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 11, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Michael Loerzer loerzer_mob...@globalnorm.de wrote: Hello, A customer presumes that in Canada type plates as sticker shall be CSA approved. Who has a cross reference? Is that a requirement of the “CEC” or of a CSA standard? Any information (weblinks, standards refererences) are welcome. Best regards Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Managing Director Regulatory Affairs Specialist Das neue Buch zum Thema Product Compliance: http://www.beuth.de/sc/produktkonformitaet (Produktkonformität, Prozesse, Risikomanagement, CE-Kennzeichnung, Fallbeispiele für Geschäftsführung, Konstruktion, Normenabteilung, Vertrieb, Einkauf, Produktion, QM) _ Globalnorm GmbH Alt-Moabit 94 10559 Berlin Fon +49 30 3229027-51 Mobile +49 170 3229027 Fax +49 30 3229027-59 Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de http://www.globalnorm.de/ www.globalnorm.de http://www.globalnorm.ca/ www.globalnorm.ca http://www.product-compliance.com/ www.product-compliance.com _ Globalnorm GmbH, Sitz der Gesellschaft: Alt-Moabit 94, 10559 Berlin Geschäftsführer: Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg HRB 105204 B, USt-ID-Nummer: DE251654448
Re: [PSES] Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval?
UL and CSA do have recognized or certified labeling systems which involve the paper, ink, and adhesive for the material upon which it is applied. The CB folks don't trust it and we have to have a sample tested every time. Not than being annoyed in having to send a sample every time I haven't run into a problem. m: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 12:50 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval? AFAIK from earlier extensive experience with both CSA and UL, this is a requirement applied across the board for self-adhesive labels to be fitted to Certified/Listed equipments. The reason is quite simply that many label-materials will not adhere firmly to many types of enclosure material and/or will not remain there under the foreseen environmental conditions in which they will be used! Also, use of the incorrect combinations of base-materials, adhesives and/or printing methods can result in labels which are not fit for the purposes for which they are used. Therefore both organisations have extensive Recognition/Acceptance programs to assess the label base-materials, printing methods (inks can smudge/wash-off) and final-manufacturing methods to ensure that only the correct labels are used for the equipment application in question. To confirm this, just do a search on their own websites and/or those of large label-material / printing equipment suppliers. BTW: From that earlier experience (and including some personal experience of where the use of the wrong inks have resulted in smudging!), I have always wondered why this type of requirement is not far more widespread throughout the World than it is - it should be!! John Allen London, UK From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Michael Loerzer Sent: 11 November 2011 18:14 To: IEEE PSES Subject: Type plate requirements in Canada - CSA approval? Hello, A customer presumes that in Canada type plates as sticker shall be CSA approved. Who has a cross reference? Is that a requirement of the CEC or of a CSA standard? Any information (weblinks, standards refererences) are welcome. Best regards Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Managing Director Regulatory Affairs Specialist Das neue Buch zum Thema Product Compliance: http://www.beuth.de/sc/produktkonformitaet (Produktkonformität, Prozesse, Risikomanagement, CE-Kennzeichnung, Fallbeispiele für Geschäftsführung, Konstruktion, Normenabteilung, Vertrieb, Einkauf, Produktion, QM) _ Globalnorm GmbH Alt-Moabit 94 10559 Berlin Fon +49 30 3229027-51 Mobile +49 170 3229027 Fax +49 30 3229027-59 Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.demailto:michael.loer...@globalnorm.de www.globalnorm.dehttp://www.globalnorm.de/ www.globalnorm.cahttp://www.globalnorm.ca/ www.product-compliance.comhttp://www.product-compliance.com/ _ Globalnorm GmbH, Sitz der Gesellschaft: Alt-Moabit 94, 10559 Berlin Geschäftsführer: Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg HRB 105204 B, USt-ID-Nummer: DE251654448 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4611 - Release Date: 11/11/11 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike
[PSES] ITAR scope
Previously, have done the ITAR forms as 'not required' 'not applicable'. Current customer, whom has much experience dealing with this, says the 8MHz microprocessor with an embedded 400kHz analog-to-digital converter puts device within scope. I cannot find anything in 22 CFR parts 120 and 121 to support this. Is this more ad-hoc Dept of State regulation weirdness? Who knows what nefarious security problems could result if a 20watt power converter was used by known enemies of the state. I probably should be concerned if our capitalist AC was converted to marxist/extremist DC power. Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] ITAR scope
In message f014332fd18a4c749c3ed712650e0...@tamuracorp.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: I probably should be concerned if our capitalist AC was converted to marxist/extremist DC power. Teslacity will always overcome Edisonism. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK I was thinking of learning beer-making, but since I like honey, I chose meadier studies. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] MOV requirements
Does the industry really need another standard, I wonder? _ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/11/2011 06:48 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] MOV requirements In message 4ebd2d05.5050...@ieee.org, dated Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Mick Maytum m.j.may...@ieee.org writes: MOV, Varistor, VDR; Metal-Oxide Varistor are all names for a voltage-limiting component using a particular technology. I think this 'particular technology' is an important point. As I understand it, devices like Transorbs (TM?) are quite different from MOVs, being avalanche diodes with a very high thermal capacity. They seem to be rarely used (cost?) but have desirable characteristics (like not exploding!). Are there relevant standards? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] MOV requirements
To further abuse a meme - moar standards! [insert troll-face here] Another member has previously commented that there a several type of components used to arrest a surge. For the purpose of my OP, was focused on a MOV-type SPD as defined under UL CCNs VZCA2 and VZCA8, where the effective standards are UL1449 and CSA C233.1, and various CSA TILs. And of course, the wondrous IEC61051-2. This is another case where EMC requirements (61000-4-5,6) can affect product safety. Last year's update to the 2d ed of 60950-1 for my component power supplies was, for some models, quite an adventure. A problem NOT ADDRESSED by TC108 is the increased energy AFTER a surge, or during a SFC, due to the 120% rating requirement. Perhaps this was a principal intent of UL1449 3d ed - verify that the high E and I do not make the MOV puke it guts and start a fire. There are many sources of increased energy - my two problem children are the effects of an inductive kick to the circuit being 'protected' by the SPD *after* the current interrupt device has opened; and the higher voltage (CV^2), during a surge, at which the SPD will start conducting. As for GDTs - they take longer to get to low Z. And zener-type arrestors do not have a sharp knee at the conduction level. The ZnO MOV seems to be the best chance of survival, assuming the other circuit components can handle much higher coulombs running around before clamping. Moar standards! Moar unintended effects! Moarrr Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] MOV requirements Does the industry really need another standard, I wonder? Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/11/2011 06:48 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] MOV requirements In message 4ebd2d05.5050...@ieee.org, dated Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Mick Maytum m.j.may...@ieee.org writes: MOV, Varistor, VDR; Metal-Oxide Varistor are all names for a voltage-limiting component using a particular technology. I think this 'particular technology' is an important point. As I understand it, devices like Transorbs (TM?) are quite different from MOVs, being avalanche diodes with a very high thermal capacity. They seem to be rarely used (cost?) but have desirable characteristics (like not exploding!). Are there relevant standards? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Hi Pete, By commercial, do you mean for use in a restaurant or retail (take away) environment or in a food factory? Is it gas heated or electric? Any powered moving parts? Nick. On 14 Nov 2011, at 21:00, Pete Perkins wrote: PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct standard. Its scope includes the following text. Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and similar use only. This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and shops, but not food processing plants. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:15 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: CE marking of deep-fat fryer In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
60335-2-37 is for commercial appliances but isn't much use for gas fired or food factory type equipment. Nick. On 14 Nov 2011, at 22:14, John Woodgate wrote: In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. -- - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Well, UL is a company, not the gov't. Agree the gov't has no business certifying products, but that is water under the bridge at this point. If UL, as a private company, feels that a significant fraction of the potential customer base could harm themselves using this product, then they have every right to refrain from certifying it. That shouldn't mean that it isn't available on the market, just that UL hasn't blessed it. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:04:57 -0600 To: dougp01 doug...@gmail.com Cc: Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsaf ety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
That is a wonderful bit of propaganda put out by UL to justify their decision to categorically refuse to NRTL list turkey fryers as being intrinsically unsafe/ unable to be used safely by the general public. And yet one easily finds them on the shelves of Wal-Mart, Target, etc. (with no UL mark, of course) this time of year. Of course, you also read of a large number of fires/ injuries resulting from the use of turkey fryers this time of year as well so UL might have a valid point... I particularly like the UL employee lowering the frozen turkey with tongs into a full vat of boiling oil while wearing what appears to be a full fire-fighting suit including breathing apparatus. It's just so wonderfully over-the-top. I also enjoy the image of dramatically tipping over the boiling oil towards the camera. Visions of the Middle Ages sure to appeal to our European friends! It's kind of old now (it came out in 2003 or 2004) but UL was seemed quite pleased with it and featured it prominently on their homepage at the time if I recall correctly. John P. Farley -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of dougp01 Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 4:13 PM To: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
These are not necessarily problems due to the fryer itself. Instead, the problems are due to the behavior of the user. As with lawnmowers and table saws, the fryer can be (and probably should be) designed to thwart any behavior shortcomings. Rich -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 3:05 PM To: dougp01 Cc: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/cons umer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
No, I think UL has a point here. As you can see from the Video that Turkey fryer is Gas fired, so there is always a ingnition source present. As far as I recall Deep Fat Fryers for home use in Europe: - are electrically heated, with the heat source inside and protected by an outside enclosure that is below 50 deg (i.e. can be touched by the user) it will cool spilled oil instead of igniting it. - all models I recall to have seen are smaller. The food to be fried it to be put into a cage with a handle, and can at maximum hold a small chicken. - The deep-fat fryer shown in the UL video really seems to be too cheaply built. Such deep-fat fryers should always be intended for commercial use only, so a slightly higher price should be acceptable - There must be a better protection against tilting over - There must be a provision that spilled oil does not reach the bottom part of the outside of the fryer, but is instead collected in a ring attached to the upper part of the outside Rgds Rene Charton Derek Walton lfresearch@aol.c omTo Sent by: dougp01 doug...@gmail.com emc-p...@ieee.org cc Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 11/15/2011 07:04 Subject AMRe: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] MOV requirements
Ralph, The answer to your question is in the US arm of your own company. Drop a line to James Moellmann, who has recently been to the IEC meetings in China and IEEE meetings in Florida all concerned with yet more standards on MOV-protected devices and equipment. Regards Mick On 14/11/2011 19:30, ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Does the industry really need another standard, I wonder? _ * Ralph McDiarmid* | *Schneider Electric ** | Renewable Energies Business* | *CANADA* | *Regulatory Compliance Engineering* From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/11/2011 06:48 AM Subject:Re: [PSES] MOV requirements In message 4ebd2d05.5050...@ieee.org, dated Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Mick Maytum m.j.may...@ieee.org writes: MOV, Varistor, VDR; Metal-Oxide Varistor are all names for a voltage-limiting component using a particular technology. I think this 'particular technology' is an important point. As I understand it, devices like Transorbs (TM?) are quite different from MOVs, being avalanche diodes with a very high thermal capacity. They seem to be rarely used (cost?) but have desirable characteristics (like not exploding!). Are there relevant standards? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.ukand www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
I disagree. Some devices like lawn-mowers, table-saws, snow-blowers and chainsaws are inherently dangerous by necessity, because of their intended function. I don't know how (or whether) one needs to design a lawn-mower or a chainsaw to be idiot proof. When used properly with due care and in accordance with its operation instructions, these devices are in fact quite safe. Clearly some devices are truly not intended for use by anyone. _ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/14/2011 03:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer These are not necessarily problems due to the fryer itself. Instead, the problems are due to the behavior of the user. As with lawnmowers and table saws, the fryer can be (and probably should be) designed to thwart any behavior shortcomings. Rich -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 3:05 PM To: dougp01 Cc: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/cons umer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Agreed Ken. In fact, I'm not at all convinced that products in the USA or Canada require 3rd party safety blessing from an agency. The new approach directive in the EU for product safety appears to work perfectly well without any agency involvement. I'd like to see that approach adopted here, but alas with all the litigation on this side of the pond, it will likely never happen. On the other hand, CSA and UL do employ a lot of good people. _ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/14/2011 03:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Well, UL is a company, not the gov't. Agree the gov't has no business certifying products, but that is water under the bridge at this point. If UL, as a private company, feels that a significant fraction of the potential customer base could harm themselves using this product, then they have every right to refrain from certifying it. That shouldn't mean that it isn't available on the market, just that UL hasn't blessed it. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:04:57 -0600 To: dougp01 doug...@gmail.com Cc: Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsaf ety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message 4ec19e99.7060...@aol.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com writes: I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Yes, but if they didn't do it, UL would be sued for $100 by everyone who sets their fryer on fyer. That may happen anyway because the person concerned can't read English. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message e9c52f9e77c43c49a56a22691b3680be1b1...@tk5ex14mbxc301.redmond.corp.micro soft.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com writes: If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct standard. Its scope includes the following text. Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and similar use only. This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and shops, but not food processing plants. Yes, BUT, as I said, SC61E hasn't got round to making a special standard for commercial fryers. So the 'standards route' to complying with the LVD in Europe is to use 60335-2-13 and include in the safety assessment document the reasons why that standard is applicable to your particular product. That can, if necessary, be supplemented by an opinion from a Notified Body. A product that's safe in a home or restaurant doesn't automatically become unsafe if it's moved into a plant. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message eca7cebe-86a4-4fe8-942b-a4cecc5f6...@conformance.co.uk, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Nick Williams nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk writes: 60335-2-37 is for commercial appliances but isn't much use for gas fired or food factory type equipment. That's peculiar: I thought that such a standard existed but a search of the IEC SC61E web site didn't show it. I think I know why: the page I asked for didn't appear, but one that resembled it did. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message nyjtypaolzwof...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk writes: In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. CORRECTION IEC 60335-2-37 applies. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message eb8hcucbwgwof...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, dated Tue, 15 Nov 2011, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk writes: In message e9c52f9e77c43c49a56a22691b3680be1b1...@tk5ex14mbxc301.redmond.corp.micro soft.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com writes: If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct standard. Its scope includes the following text. Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and similar use only. This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and shops, but not food processing plants. Yes, BUT, as I said, SC61E hasn't got round to making a special standard for commercial fryers. So the 'standards route' to complying with the LVD in Europe is to use 60335-2-13 and include in the safety assessment document the reasons why that standard is applicable to your particular product. That can, if necessary, be supplemented by an opinion from a Notified Body. CORRECTION: IEC 60335-2-37 applies A product that's safe in a home or restaurant doesn't automatically become unsafe if it's moved into a plant. This is still true. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
