Re: ULC vs. CUL
I would strongly suggest that you go to the Standards Council of Canada site at "www.scc.ca" wherein all that you are talking about will be come clear. Look under accreditation and standards or do a search on the site. In summary ULC is the following: 1) Now fully owned by Underwriters Laboratories 2) A SCC accredited Standards Developer, a SCC accredited certification body, a SCC accredited testing laboratory and a SCC accredited registrar 3) While MOUs relating to test results are used at times between CSA and UL the CUL mark is accepted based on the accrediation as a certification body to a specified scope and coverage by the SCC as the accreditor. CUL is a mark indicating that a product has been certified to Canadian standards by UL.( UL or ULC). ULC is now testing electrical/electronic products as well as their original fire and burgurly approval and testing services. I hope this helps out. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage Manager Standards Program Division Standards Council of Canada (613) 238 3222 Ext. 447 rdulm...@scc.ca david_ster...@ademco.com wrote: > Gregg,ULC is UL Canada whose logo is "ULC" inside a maple leaf inside > a circle.ULC is now owned by UL (purchased a couple years ago) but > files and administrative functions are not yet mergedULC is > different from cUL and CSA (different spec #'s, files, etc.)ULC > approvals are primarily Fire and Burg equipment including alarm > systemsOlder ADEMCO products have separate UL and ULC approvals > (different spec #'s, file #'s, etc). New products have UL and cUL > because approval is one-stop. Maybe someone from Underwriters > Laboratories can let us know UL's future plans for merging > administrative functions and procedures.David SternerADEMCOSyosset NY > > -Original Message- > From: Gregg Kervill [mailto:gkerv...@eu-link.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:06 PM > To: bur...@andovercontrols.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: ULC vs. CUL > > UL Underwriters' Lab is the Agency - it Lists PRODUCTS or > Recognizes Components for North American use.(The Canadian > counterpart is CSA Canadian Standards > Association)Historically you had to apply to BOTH agencies > to have a product Listed (Recognize) and Certified (for > Canada).Twp submissions to two labs.Now CSA and UL have a > MOU by which they acknowledge test performed by each other > to their standards.UL is the UL Listing mark to a UL > standard.cUL is the UL Marking that demonstrates that the > product was tested by UL to a CSA standards.The recognition > marks are similar but I do not have a backward R so I cannot > do them here.Best regardsGregg PLEASE NOTE NEW NUMBERS > P.O. Box 310, Reedville, > Virginia 22539 USA > > Phone: (804) 453-3141 > Fax: (804) 453-9039 > Web: www.test4safety.com > > -Original Message- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On > Behalf Of bur...@andovercontrols.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:18 PM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: ULC vs. CUL > > Someone from our UK office is asking if ULC is the > same as CUL. Does anyone know the difference > between these two marks? > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thanks, > Joe > > Josiah P. Burch > Compliance Engineer II > Andover Controls Corporation > 300 Brickstone Square > Andover,Ma 01810 > (978)-470-0555 x335 > (978)-470-3615 Fax >
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Ralph, some comments on your points. First I would suggest a lot of information on this question can be found at "www.scc.ca". Secondly and very briefly as Art Michaels stated ULC stands for Underwriters Laboratories of Canada. ULC is a certification body accredited as is CSA and 14 others by the Standards Council of Canada. Again a great deal of information can be found at the SCC site. Hope this helps. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage Manager Standards Programs Standards Council of Canada Ralph Cameron wrote: > CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is > normally not accpetable by itself in Canada > > Ralph Cameron > EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics > (after sale) > > - Original Message - > From: "Horst Haug" > To: "Peter Merguerian" ; ; > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM > Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) > > > > > Amund, > > > > UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved > by > > UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is > > no problem any more (that is my experience). > > The UL PAG "practical application guide" about is 1.5.002. I send it to > you > > in a separate EMAIL. > > > > With best regards > > Horst Haug > > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > > Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian > > Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 > > An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > > Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) > > > > > > Amend, > > > > See my answers in body of your message. > > > > > > > > > > > > UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety > area, > > to > > have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? > > > > I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the > > certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. > > > > My questions are: > > 1.Do they have the same status? > > > > Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their > > acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. > > > > > > 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer > > one > > of the approvals? > > > > Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that > > other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. > > You must educate them. > > > > 3.Do we have to go for both of them? > > > > Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to > > accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular > > standards. > > > > Best regards > > Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway > > > > > > > > -- > > Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su > > > > --- > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > > majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: > > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old > > messages are imported into the new server. > > > > --- > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > > majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: > > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old > > messages are imported into the new server. > > > > > > --- > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > > majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: > > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > > > For help, send mail to the
Re: Compliance Documentation
Documents scanning can be pretty tedious and as you have mentioned not always resulting in what you want. I'm currently working on a trial test on document scanning with a specialist in the field, Arimtec International. The web site address is "http://www.arimtec.ca"; and the president's name is John Van Essen. I currently have anywhere between 600 and 2000 pages a week of documents which have to uploaded and distributed on a wide basis to about 400+ individuals across Canada. We looked at in house scanning and concluded it was not a desirable solution. The rest of our papers are already electronic and these are already distributed through electronic forum to 4500 people in total. Outsourcing the balance seemed to me to be the most prudent way of dealing with the volume and servicing the needs of the recipients.. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage "Bailey, Jeff" wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Nice lead in... :-P > > > I have considered buying Adobe Acrobat and then converting all of my Word > Documents to Adobe documents. Then I could scan in the attachments. All of > this digital information... > > > Great idea, I currently use Adobe Acrobat for what you are describing, it is > > a great tool and will let you make anything you print into a pdf by simply > printing to the "adobe printer driver", for MS Office docs there is a > special > driver that lets you import special formats (i.e. styles and TOC's in word) > and use them as bookmarks in your pdf. You can then go into acrobat and > edit > your bookmark tree to whatever extent you want to carry it. This can make > for > some pretty impressive looking docs. > > As far as scanning in documents goes... that may be a little tedious and I > have > never had much luck with keeping scanned docs looking very "clean" that's > why I > would never personally go the scanning route. If you can get a good scan > then > it might be alright but even then you may want to hire someone to scan it > all > because it would probably take an unusually long time... Do you have the > option > of going back to the test houses that evaluated your products and asking if > they > have soft copy available? > > > Better yet. Does anybody know of a service where you can send 1000's of > pages of info to them for them to scan and convert to pdf files. This would > prove valuable during the initial conversion. > > > You might want to try your local printshop, I haven't checked but there must > be > some entreprenuer out there that has thought of this. I can't imagine it > would > be cheap though... > > I think you're on the right track, since I started organizing my reports in > soft > form it has been much easier to refer back to it when needed as well as get > information to those who request it. I still keep one hard copy of > everything. > > One thing to watch out for is security, we all know how easy it is to track > electronic > copies right? :-P If you make versions that contain proprietary > information for > internal use you will need some way of ensureing those copies are never > distributed > by those who should know better but do not. > > Also be careful with the security options in Acrobat, you will want full > control over > the master copy but may want to limit editing/printing rights on the > distibuted versions.. > > Just a few things to think about... > > Cheers, > > Jeff Bailey > Compliance Engineering > SST - A Division of Woodhead Canada > Phone: (519) 725 5136 ext. 363 > Fax: (519) 725 1515 > mailto:jbai...@mysst.com > Web: www.sstech.on.ca > > All comments contained in the message are my own and do not necessarily > express the views of SST/Woodhead Canada. > > > -Original Message- > From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@gnnettest.com] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:58 AM > To: 'EMC-PSTC Internet Forum' > Subject: Compliance Documentation > > Hi all, > > I do have a question, but the setup is sort of fun, so here goes: > > Well, I'm at that point. A few years ago, when the EMC Directive was first > effective, we had a couple of products that we put through testing. We > started keeping "Compliance Folders" which consisted of a cover report > generated with MS Word combined with our in-house test reports and third > party test reports held together with a big rubber band. > > This was fun for a couple of products. It was also fun when our company > could remember what we called ourselves and what our product names/models > were. Well, business is good...too good. The corporate captains have been > buying other companies, OEMing products from other people, OEMing products > to other people, changing the corporate name, changing the corporate logo, > changing product model numbers ... (buying 25,000 coffee stirrers with our > logo on them, we used about 20 before they changed the logo. Anybody what a > now obsolete GN Nettest coffee stirrer?) > > Now I have about 20 large folders with anywhere from 100 to 600 pages each. > Every time we
Re: UL/CSA/IEC/EN Standards Search
CSA sales can give you the most recent standards. You can reach them via their web. I understand that the latest edition of the binational CSA/UL 950 can be ordered. If you want to see the work programme for all of the SDO's in Canada including CSA and then link to CSA start at http://www.scc.ca and select "what's new" or 'Infocentre" and you will find the links and work programmes there. Regards G. Rae Dulmage Peter Merguerian wrote: > Dear All, > > I have yet to find a reliable source for determining the most recent edition > and revision levels with dates for UL/CSA/IEC/EN Standards. Can anyone help? > > I have subsciption service for Perinorm from BSI but it does not give the > revision levels and is too complicated to use. I also tried MSSN > http://www.nssn.org/ but it is not very reliable with the most recent > revisions. > > Peter Merguerian > Managing Director > Product Testing Division > I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. > Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 > Or Yehuda 60251, Israel > > Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 > e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il > website: http://www.itl.co.il > > TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE > EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Standards
To Phrase this differently CEN signed the Vienna Agreement with ISO and CENELEC signed the Dresden Agreement with IEC. You can find copies and details on these on many sites include "ANSI". These have been the topic of some recent discussion. CENELEC does try to follow IEC numbering and text where there is agreement. This is not always the case. Regards G. Rae Dulmage wo...@sensormatic.com wrote: > Paul, the EU Commission has encouraged CENELEC and CEN to adopt IEC/ISO > standards whenever possible. CENELEC and CEN have agreements with the IEC > that the former will not work on standards that are currently underway in > the IEC unless there is an urgent need for a standard and the IEC cannot > meet the needed date. In many if not most cases, proposed standards follow a > parallel approval process in CENELEC/CEN and IEC. However, there are > sometimes unique EU requirements that cause EU deviations to occur. > Amendments to IEC documents may also follow this common approval process; > but, again, EU deviations may and sometimes do occur. > > Richard Woods > > -- > From: Finn, Paul [SMTP:fi...@pan0.panametrics.com] > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:14 PM > To: 'emc-pstc' > Subject: Standards > > Please bear with me on this one, this is not my strong point. > > I am under the impression that the EN standards are derived from thier IEC > equivalent. Also for compliance with the EMC directive we test to the > applicable EN standard. > > When the IEC version(s) are amended is it safe to assume that the equivalent > EN will be amended? Alternatively is it possible the EN already includes > the IEC amendments? > > Any comments would be greatly appreciated. > > Paul Finn, Manager Test and Certification Group > Panametrics Inc. > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: NRTL acceptance
Vitaly, your comment regarding CSA is incorrect. CSA is an NRTL just like the others. CSA has a mark for NRTL approval. Regards G. Rae Dulmage "Gorodetsky, Vitaly" wrote: > George, > You have overlooked MET, NTS, WYLE, SWRI and others. For a complete list > and the scope of recognition, go to the OSHA website. > Though, CSA is recognized NRTL, I am afraid, that the issuance of the NRTL > mark does not necessarily mean that CSA mark can be automatically affixed to > a product. There should be Mutual Recognition Agreement between a > particular NRTL and the CSA. Is it correct? > > Regards > > > -Original Message- > > From: geor...@lexmark.com [SMTP:geor...@lexmark.com] > > Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 5:11 AM > > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > > Subject: RE: NRTL acceptance > > > > > > Actually, the following NRTLs are approved by OSHA for evaluation > > to UL 1950: > > > > UL, CSA, ITS (former ETL), TUV Rheinland, MET, and SGS. > > > > There may be some I have overlooked. > > > > George Alspaugh > > > > -- Forwarded by George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark on > > 11/22/99 > > 08:09 AM --- > > > > vgorodetsky%canoga@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/19/99 04:57:29 PM > > > > Please respond to vgorodetsky%canoga@interlock.lexmark.com > > > > To: George_Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark@LEXMARK, > > emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com > > cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) > > Subject: RE: NRTL acceptance > > > > > > > > > > Terry and George, > > > > In this country of ours, there are three equally acceptable safety marks: > > UL, ETL and NRTL. But, as we all know, some acceptable marks are more > > equal > > than others. > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: geor...@lexmark.com [SMTP:geor...@lexmark.com] > > > Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 11:02 AM > > > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > > > Subject: NRTL acceptance > > > > > > > > > Terry, > > > > > > You have raised a very good question. The problem is that the U.S. > > > had only one approved safety agency for so long, that it is > > > difficult to wean non-laymen away from that one agency mark. This > > > includes your (and my) management, marketing, customers, etc. Few > > > of these understand the meaning of NRTL, with its variety of agency > > > approvals and marks. > > > > > > I did fight this battle over an off-the-shelf peripheral we needed > > > to market which did not have the "traditional" safety mark, but an > > > acceptable NRTL mark. One of the positions I to confront was that > > > many Federal, state, or local "government" bids require "the" mark. > > > > > > I referenced the Code of Federal Regulations, OSHA sections, citing > > > acceptable U.S. authorized NRTLs. I pointed out that compliance to > > > UL 1950 was the needed requirement, not which agency did the actual > > > assessment. One problem is that those who write the specifications > > > for government bids are not aware of this fact, and do continue to > > > list only one agency mark into the document. In a way, this is > > > probably a violation of federal law, i.e. requiring vendors to do > > > "business" with a specified private company, thus stifling any > > > competition. Isn't this what the goverment is accusing Microsoft > > > of doing? > > > > > > You are exactly right. As PSE professionals, we should be able to > > > look for and use whatever options are legally available to meet our > > > employer's certification needs in the most timely and cost effective > > > manner. Unfortunately, in the U.S. this requires a significant > > > amount of internal and external education as to the actual legal > > > options. > > > > > > George Alspaugh > > > Lexmark International Inc. > > > > > > -- Forwarded by George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark on > > > 11/19/99 > > > 01:41 PM --- > > > > > > tjmeck%accusort@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/19/99 12:25:38 PM > > > > > > Please respond to tjmeck%accusort@interlock.lexmark.com > > > > > > To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com > > > cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) > > > Subject: NRTL acceptance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > We have been using an old reliable but very busy Safety agency to > > > review our products and apply their safety mark. > > > > > > From time to time we are approached by their competitors, NRTLs, or > > > European soon to be NRTL labs for our business. > > > > > > My question is in this `NRTL enlightened market are there still > > > inspectors out there that will still require education about the NRTL > > > status and the acceptability of an NRTL lab Listing vs the old familiar > > > ones? > > > > > > As you all know time to market is critical and 3 to 6 months is too > > > long to wait. We will need to look for other solutions and I am trying > > > to review the whole range of issues involved in changing the primary > > > N
Re: EMC and Safety Requirements for Mexico
Carlos, the answer to your first question is no. You will need to get approval for your products in Mexico. Their specifications are IEC derived in most cases. You will need to obtan national approval through a Mexican agency or the Mexican office of a Certifying organization such as UL, TUV etc. More details can be found at various sites in Mexico. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com wrote: > Hello Group, > > Can anyone tell me if CE marking of electrical and electronic products is > acceptable to the Mexican authorities? > > What tests in addition to the ENs would be necessary? > > Many thanks. > > Carlos Perkins. > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Japanese requirements
Dear Paul, For the Japanese EMI requirements go to the VCCI website and look up their information. Some is free and some has to be ordered. They are pretty responsive people when asked a question. The Website address is: http://www.vcci.jp/vcci/vccie/. For safety Japan follows the CB scheme for some requirements. You need to check with JETRO as to what the requirements are for your product. If it is CB scheme I strongly recommend that you either order or get yourself a copy of the CB Bulletin's as these give very clear guides on the national deviations for various product type requirements in the CB scheme countries. JETRO web site address is: http://www.jetro.co.uk/ and for the CB scheme it is http://www.cbscheme.org. Some manufacturers mistakenly assume that CB scheme means the standard is identical and all you need to do is submit reports and certificates in each country. This is not the case in part because the electrical systems are not the same in all countries. I hope this helps. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation 1+613 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove Paul Smith wrote: > Hello All, > > I'm curently looking into requiremetns for Japan (both EMC & Safety). I guess > it's VCCI for the EMC and IEC specs. for safety (presuming Japan are part of > the CB scheme?). The product in question will be a dimmer for use in > theatre/TV studios (large rack type 70+ ways, not the small 6 ways portable > type). > > Can anybody point me in the right direction for the required standards and if > special (i.e. in Japanese) then a UK based agency where I can buy them > from/get a translation of. > > Thanks > > Paul > > This E-mail brought to you by Excite's free E-mail service. > Get your own E-mail address at http://www.excite.co.uk > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Off Topic Maybe: Hydrogen Fuel Cells
Douglas, The IEEE Spectrum May 1999 issue pages 45-52 had an excellent article on Fuel Cells by Ronald H. Wolk. It gave a number of web site addresses for more information about fuel cells as follows: http://www.fetc.doe.gov http://www.dodfuelcell.com http://www.nfcrc.uci.edu http://www.epri.com http://www.gri.org A lot of money has been put into these ideas and they are progressing along. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation 1+613 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove Douglas McKean wrote: > I apologize if this is really off topic ... > > Having a *friendly* discussion about hydrogen > fuels cells replacing commercial power. I'm > taking the "you got to be kidden me!" side. > > Okey. Sometime in the future, imagine this > actually happens (stop laughing). Hydrogen > is pumped out to everyone where in some shed, > hopefully a quarter mile from my house, equipment > uses the hydrogen for power conversion in the form > of hydrogen fuel cells. Each residence has their > own substation in a sense. > > Question - Besides from some obvious construction > and engineering changes and JUST from a regulatory > point of view, what's involved here? > > I'm thinking it would be a nightmare. > > Gotta be some power people out there that after > they stop laughing might have something to say. > > There's gotta be some hefty building/construction > requirements that are similar to ones that cover > substations. Let alone what's involved with H2. > > Plus, if the cells are operating at a reduced > voltage level, the ampacity of the wires used > from the cells to the house would be unacceptably > large in gauge. My thinking is 3kw or higher fuel > cells to power a small house. > > Anyone care to take a shot? > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: E & H Near Field Probes
When I was the VP of Certelecom Laboratories I specified and purchased the Com-Power probes and pre-amp. I did quite an extensive search and a lot of phone calling before settling on this make. They certainly were very useful. We also had Electro-Metrics probes but tended to use the Com-Power ones quite a lot. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B., Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation 1+613 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove ajm...@us.ibm.com wrote: > I am using a probe set (two E-probes and one H-probe) by Com-Power > Corporation, > based in Southern California. You will also need a pre-amplifier for the > E-probes. The one from Com-Power is relatively inexpensive. Their phone > number > is (949) 587-9800. > > Regards, Ravinder > > Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com > *** > Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. > Mark Twain > > Richard Lee on 07/02/99 11:15:19 AM > > Please respond to Richard Lee > > To: emc-p...@ieee.org > cc: > Subject: E & H Near Field Probes > > Hi Everyone, > > Can anyone recommend & point me to any manufacturers for E & H field probes > of the EMI measurements? > > Thanks in advance! > > Best Regards, > > Richard Lee > > > Richard Lee > Adicom Wireless, Inc.Tel: (510) 781-5520x358 > 26142 Eden Landing road, A-1 Fax:(510) 781-5525 > Hayward, California 94545 > > > Name: att1.htm >att1.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > Encoding: base64 >Description: Internet HTML - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: emc compliance
Lisa, I don't think so. If you had the cable built with the ferrite included or the ferrite was sleeved in such a way that it was not removeable and your equipment was supplied with this you can then provide a full declaration of conformity provided that you advise that they must use the cable provided and that this is part of the compliance. Ferrites are not identical products and not all manufacturers ferrites are easily obtained in any one particular location. The best solution would be to have a cable which solves the problem. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove lisa_cef...@mksinst.com wrote: > Here's a question If you have a product that, at one particular frequency > during radiated RF, you simply cannot get to pass the requirements of the > relative CE standard without putting an external ferrite on the cable, is it > "legal" , to still mark it, provided you inform your customers via the > declaration of conformity or in the manual etc., that they could experience > problems at such and such frequencies and if they do, to use a ferrite? (boy, > that was a mouthful). Faced with a redesign or a statement, the words would > be > the easier route to take, since in this case, the customer could probably > never > see the problem frequency range. Comments? > > thank you for any advise, > > Lisa > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: India
Yes India does have regulations. I have an extensive set of them in my office. What do you want to know exactly and I will see if I can give some help. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove "George, David L" wrote: > Has anyone heard of any regulatory requirements from India. My search has > found nothing. Do they have a standards organization? > > Dave George > Unisys > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Korean approvals
Dear Robert, You need to refer to the APEC MRA documents and also country specific documents/rules on how they are implementing the various phases of this MRA.. Not all APEC members signed the MRA but one of them is Korea. The APEC MRA can be found at http://www.tsacc.ic.gc.ca/MRA/";. The commencement date is July 1, 1999 to those who signed it. From what I understand if the telecommunications regulations include compliance to telecom, safet(electrical) and EMC rules then these are covered under this agreement. APL:AC agreement covered recognition of lab accredation procedures between countries so that accreditation and recognition was easier. In Australia's case this procedure worked mutually well for telecom testing,. However some countries quasi national labs and/or telecom and EMC regulation authorities denied that this obligated them to recognize labs in other countries based on the existing accreditation by the APLAC member body in that country and an audit visit to accrediate by that same body. This was the case in Taiwan with EMC and also in Korea. There is a lot of information out there and I would recommend that people link into the APEC web sites as well as those of Industry Canada for ongoing updates. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove rehel...@mmm.com wrote: > Korea (KOLAS) is a signatory of APLAC (Asia Pacific Laboratory > Accreditation Cooperation) along with the United States (NVLAP and A2LA). > It is my understanding that, in the near future, this will change the way > Korean approvals are done. I am not sure of the > details...can anyone shed further light on what exactly > APLAC will accomplish? > > ======= > === > > Graham Rae Dulmage on 06/17/99 12:08:00 AM > > Please respond to t...@world.std.com > > To: t...@world.std.com > cc:(bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) > Subject: Re: Korean approvals > > Bill, > > If you are not a Canadian Corporation and/or applicant you should have a > rep > or agent in Korea. This is the fundamental difference between the situation > for > a Canadian company. When the MRA was written this point was not clarified > for non-Canadian applicants such that the process has been to have an > agent, > though in some cases non-Canadian applicants have obtained approval in > their name in Korea without the agent being the applicant, though the > agent/rep > had to be involved. KTL also received safety accreditation from RRL for > telecom equipment within the last few days. Details should be available > from > KTL shortly. > > Regards > > G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., > President > TelApprove Services Corporation > (613) 257 3015 > http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove > > Bill Ellingford wrote: > > > Re KTL Canada > > > > Hi Treg world, > > Thanks for the news on the agreement on origin of application. This is > good news as last time I looked at this and even spoke to KTL Canada the > situation was that you must have an agent or rep either in Canada or Korea. > It is good to see this relaxation and thanks for the info. > > > > Bill Ellingford > > Motion Media Technology > > > > -- > > From: Graham Rae Dulmage[SMTP:grdulm...@sympatico.ca] > > Sent: 16 June 1999 04:43 > > To: t...@world.std.com > > Subject:Re: Korean approvals > > > > Even if you are not Canadian you can still test at KTL. A number of > companies > > have done this. The MRA between Canada and Korea has a clause that > forbids > > or precludes rules of origin being applied. If you are not Canadian or do > not > > have a Canadian facility the application requirements are a bit > different. KTL's > > reports are accepted for non-Canadian applicants by RRL. > > > > Regards > > > > G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., > > President > > TelApprove Services Corporation > > (613) 257 3015 > > http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove > > > > Bill Ellingford wrote: > > > > > Hi Treg world > > > > > > Unless you are Canadian and use the KTL test facility, you will almost > certainly be looking at assessment by the MIC / RRL in Korea. Obtain a > CENELEC CB scheme safety test report first as this will simplify the safety > submission but make sure you submit the safety to the Korean CB scheme lab. > They will then variffy the report for RRL. Going direct to RRL will > involve a high level of testing which includes parts that are accepted > elsewhere under different approval schemes. &g
Re: Spread Spectum Frequencies
Kevin, There was a list in the 1997 Compliance Engineering Reference that covered Europe. I had worked out one for a number of other requirements for radio services Worldwide and have them filed away in my office so I will look through these and let you know what I find. I also found some on Internet that covered parts of this requirement but I could never find an all in one list. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President: TelApprove Services Corporation 613 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove . Kevin Harris wrote: > Hello Group, > > I few years ago I remember seeing an article in one of the EMC/ Approval > trade magazines with some in depth country lists of what frequencies were > available for spread spectrum use. Does anyone remember that article and can > they point me to it, or alternatively does anybody know of a good list. > Thanks > > Best Regards, > > Kevin Harris > Manager, Approval Services > Digital Security Controls > 1645 Flint Road > Downsview, Ontario > CANADA > M3J 2J6 > > Tel +1 416 665 8460 Ext. 2378 > Fax +1 416 665 7753 > > email: harr...@dscltd.com > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Korea
In respect of type approval the Canada/Korea MRA for telecom and EMC does not require a local distributor/applicant. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President: TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove sb...@ctlsg.creaf.com wrote: > Hi David, > > The other contact that I have for Safety is : > National Quality Technical Association (NQTA) > Kwanyang-Dong > Dongan-Ku > Anyang-Shi > Korea 1599 > > Tel : 82 343 84 1565 > Fax : 82 343 84 4387 > > P/S : Kindly note that you requires to appoint a "general" distributor to > act as the sole importer and applicant for type approval. > > Thanks & Regards > > > conbr...@primenet.com on 05/13/99 08:23:16 AM > > Please respond to conbr...@primenet.com > To: "'David Gelfand'" > "'IEEE'" > cc: > > Subject: RE: Korea > > David, > > You will need to contact one of the following EMC and product safety testing > authorities in South Korea: > > [1]Ministry of Information & Communications > Radio & Broadcasting Bureau > 2116 Sinmun-ro 1 ga, Jongro-gu > Seoul, South Korea 110-700 > Kim Hoe-Soo > Tel: 2 750 2423/5 > Fax: 2 750 2915/2429 > > [2]Radio Research Laboratory of MIC > Dept. of Type Approval > 901 Hogyedong > Angang City, Kyungkido 431-082 > Yoon-ll Jang, Assistant Director > Tel: 2 343 55 6783/1094 > Fax: 2 343 55 6784 or 52 2702 > E-mail: yij...@cc.rl.go.kr > > Best Regards, > Constance Brown > Executive Editor > Compliance Engineering Magazine > constance.br...@cancom.com > Tel: 978-524-9890 > www.ce-mag.com > > -Original Message- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of David Gelfand > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:01 AM > To: IEEE > Subject: Korea > > Hello, > > Can somebody point me to the Korean safety and emc approval authority? > > Thank you, > > David Gelfand > Approvals Engineer > Memotec Communications Inc. > Montreal, Canada > > > Name: att1.htm >att1.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > Encoding: base64 >Description: Internet HTML - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Korea
David, The safety authority in Korea is Kaitech. In North America there is one lab which is approved to do Korean Telecom and EMC plus Radio testing and approval. This is KTL Canada in Ottawa. They also handle the safety side as well. Suggest you contact Ms. Ruth Varley at 1-800-563-6336 Ext. 223 or 613 737 9680 Ext. 223 who can take the details and help you out. I am aware of this as I negotiated and arranged the accreditation of KTL(then Certelecom Laboratories) in December 1997 by the Korean Authorities. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President: TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove David Gelfand wrote: >Part 1.1Type: Plain Text (text/plain) >Encoding: quoted-printable - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Are Safety Approvals Required for Telephone Adapters?
John, If I recall these items are classified as telephone accessories. Such companies as Leviton, Virginia Plastics etc. have listings for these. The concern is not with the overvoltage tests as much as with plastic rating, flamability, plating, insulation etc. I don't recall any application of Section 6.4 for overvoltage. The standard for UL was UL1863 not UL1950. Since overvoltage is not the test the concern is their contributory effect to a safe environment in which the connection from the subscriber side is unknown and therefore to valued as potentially unsafe and the connection to the network is considered to be known and may by degradation become unsafe. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove jrbar...@lexmark.com wrote: > We are looking at Telephone Adapters, such as those made by TeleAdapt ( > http://www.teleadapt.com/web/Catalogue/Index), to go from an RJ-11 plug to > phone > jacks for the following countries: > > (Embedded image moved to file: pic14566.pcx) > > We have seen some adapters with UL, TUV, and CE marks. The only part of IEC > 950 > that looks like it would apply is Section 6.4, Protection of equipment users > from overvoltages on telecommunications networks. > > Where we can find information on national or safety-agency approvals required > for Telephone Adapters? > > Are there any requirements in CTR21, the latest European standard for analog > modems, that apply to Telephone Adapters? > > John Barnes Advisory > Engineer > Lexmark International > > >Name: pic14566.pcx >pic14566.pcxType: PCX Image Document (image/x-pc-paintbrush) >Encoding: base64 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: White neutrals in Europe
Both responses given so far are correct. It would be nice if we all eventually come to common technical agreement on common technical ground overtime. I worry that we sometimes push the technical aside and rush in with alternate opinions. In this case I see a lot of danger in shipping the product as described. One point could be what "N" means or stands for as marked on the cable may not be understood in another country that doesn't use English as its national language. Better safe than sorry. I once had a client who asked for instructions for proper power cords and voltage settings for 110 countries to be set up on a large spreadsheets. They provided the country names as they wanted them to be listed. I pointed out that in one instance 2 countries had the same first name and this could cause major problems. I lost the arguement until manufacturing did exactly what I thought they would, picked the wrong configuration list and on installation the whole shipped product blew up at a cost of $ 50K US plus the downtime for the customer who was using the equipment. I changed the country name to avoid confusion. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove Robert Johnson wrote: > About twenty years ago, the a group in the cable and computer industries > gathered together all the colors used worldwide for conductor identification > and > tried to come up with a worldwide compromise. The light blue(neutral), brown > (phase), and green/yellow (earth) were the best choice to avoid miswiring > somewhere in the world. The US NEC was changed specifically to clarify this > compromise (ref. NFPA 70 clause 400-22c), taking light blue as close to white > or gray. > > You can probably get away with sending the US customary colors (white, black, > green) to some countries, but you will have to specifically check codes in > each > case. Don't think an answer from one European country will answer for all of > Europe. Note: NFPA is a US originated organization working to promote itself > internationally, but does not apply to Europe except in some specific cases of > harmonization. The absence of a European Norm does not mean no laws apply. > National or local laws would be applicable. > > Since we have a well researched solution, why fight it? Misunderstandings when > it comes to wiring power cords can be lethal, a terrible price to pay for > getting away with something less. > > Bob Johnson > > "Crane, Lauren" wrote: > > > > Is it acceptable to ship equipment to Europe with neutral conductors (hook > > > up wire) that is white, particularly if the ends are marked with the > > > letter 'N' ? > > > > > > It seems to me that this would be acceptable to both the Machinery > > > Directive and the Low Voltage Directive. Neither of these directives have > > > a requirement for wire color in their Essential Requirements. > > > > > > Marking neutrals in this manner conforms to NFPA-79, an appropriate, > > > though US National, design standard for large semiconductor manufacturing > > > equipment. > > > > > > Conforming to NFPA-79, I think, demonstrates adequately addressing > > > electrical hazards to the extent of the concern of the Machinery Directive > > > and Low Voltage Directive > > > > > > EN 60204 requires that neutrals be colored light blue ONLY IF COLOR IS > > > USED TO IDENTIFY THEM. Quoting section 15.2.3 "Where a circuit includes a > > > neutral conductor identified by colour, the colour shall be light > > > blue...". > > > > > > Note that the definitions section of EN 60204 (3.38) says that the neutral > > > conductor is assigned the symbol 'N'. > > > > > > This is echoed in EN60439 "Specification for Low voltage switch gear and > > > control gear assemblies Part 1. Specification for type-tested and > > > partially type-tested assemblies." section 7.6.5.2 which says in part "Any > > > neutral conductor of the main circuit should be readily distinguishable by > > > shape, location, marking or colour..." > > > > > > I would be interested to know if anyone has experiences with this issue. > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Lauren Crane > > > Eaton Corporation > > > > > > lcr...@bev.etn.com > > > > - > > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
New Web Service
Dear All, You may be interested in the Standards Council of Canada Export Alert Service. This is a subscribable( no charge) service for WTO/GATT notices via e-mail and the provision by return request of the standards/regulations that are being proposed or passed by various countries. The Web site is "http://www.scc.ca";, when you get there select the Export Alert Service. . This is a pilot project of the Standards Council of Canada. Standards that are indicated in the e-mail will be sent back as an attachment or by fax or by mail to the requester upon returning a reply with the standards/regulations required "x"ed.. The subscriber can indicate his area of desired information. My understanding is that Canada is the only WTO/GATT member who provides this level of service in this format. As I was the chair of the advisory committee that helped set up this and other on-line services of the Standards Council of Canada I am interested in your feedback on this service. If you do subscribe please send me an e-mail letting me know this as well as providing feedback on the service itself.. For those who are not aware of the Standards Council of Canada it is a not for profit Canadian Government Corporation which is equivalent in function to that of NIST or Standards Australia or AFNOR etc. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm.,. President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Sound measurement
Dear Jim, Bruel and Kjaer "http://www.bk.dk/"; has over the years published a lot of articles on these kind of tests. In many cases they wrote or drove the test method and/or the standard. You can enquire of them what technical articles they have on test methods. They have offices around the world as well. Pricy equipment but very good. IEEE, Standards Australia, ANSI, IEEE, IEC, ISO all have test methods for noise measurements. One site you can do a quick search on articles/documents on test methods is the National Research Council of Canada " CISTI" site. The web address is "http://www.nrc.ca/cisti/biblionet/memb/f_menu_E.html";. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove "GOEDDERZ, JIM" wrote: > Hello group, > > I have been able to find limits for noise exposure, but not measurement > methods. Can anyone give the measurement methods, or a reference to a > method. Specifically, I'm looking for something like the distance from the > microphone, to the noise source. > > Thank you > > James Goedderz > Sensormatic > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: China
Dear Eric, I went through my lists for both CCEE and SACI/CCIB. Process Control Equipment is not covered in either one. However I do have notes that indicate that Industrial equipment or that is equipment used in factories has to meet the rules established by the various departments(Department of Labour) which may make reference to a Chinese standard and they could ask for these to be applied. This note is very lengthy and is a translation in part from Chinese so I will go over it and let you know what it says. In summary it indicates that there are other jurisdictions beyond or in addition to what was known as SACI and CCEE. There are some cases where I have run across a requirement for "Pattern Approval" administered by the State Bureau of Technical Supervision. This applies to many types of instruments which take measurements as part of their function. In one such case I was involved in the client was requested to comply with these requirements even though the primary function was in a large heavy industrial application as opposed to laboratory measuring equipment. In going over the application form I have in front of me such items as product use, name, measuring characteristics, photograph, sample of product., manual, mechanical drawings(and perhaps circuit diagrams), supporting technical and design rationales, Test reports, technical instruction manual, and safety devices provided are required. I will give you more info tomorrow. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President: TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 "http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove"; "Henning, Eric" wrote: > Any body have a list or know of where a list might be posted of products > requiring the Chinese CCEE or SACI/CCIB mark? > > Is process control equipment included yet? > > thanks > > eric.henn...@bailey.com > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: China
Dear Eric, I have a list in English of items requiring Chinese approval. I will pull it out of my files and check it after the Easter Holidays. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 "http://www.angelfire.com/on/TelApprove"; "Henning, Eric" wrote: > Any body have a list or know of where a list might be posted of products > requiring the Chinese CCEE or SACI/CCIB mark? > > Is process control equipment included yet? > > thanks > > eric.henn...@bailey.com > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Spread Spectrum Systems for Singapore
Erik, My own understanding of "localized on-site operation" is that this refers to a factory complex or compound and also to within a large building. In some cases this might result in outdoor use but this should not be taken as unrestricted outdoor use. Given the concern about Spread Spectrum use in shipping areas in some countries I would expect that this is same rationale here, especially given the geographic shape of Singapore. TAS will eventually answer back, sometimes it takes a rerequest or the answer just comes after a week. Hope this helps. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/TelApprove "Collins, Erik D." wrote: > I have a question regarding a spread spectrum system approval for > >Singapore. I read the standard pertaining to spread spectrum systems (TAS TS > >SSS). According to this standard, they accept FCC Part 15 , MPT 1349 or ETS > >300 328 /300 440 test reports as proof of compliance (we have Part 15 and ETS > >300 328). Additional information such as reports and photos are required as > >technical documentation. The standard makes no mention of equipment as it > >seems no additional testing is required. > > I want to know if TAS allows spread spectrum systems to be used outdoors > >(shipping ports, etc.). Part A of TAS TS SSS specifically states "the > >equipment which has been type approved will be allowed to be used in > >Singapore only in the confined area of a building." Annex 1, states "The > >radio communication equipment shall be used for in-building or localized > >on-site operations." Does the term "localized on-site operations" imply > >outdoor use? I have submitted this question directly to tas.sg.gov but have > >not yet received a response. > > Best Regards, > > Erik D. Collins > > EMI/EMC Approvals Engineer > LXE Inc. > 125 Technology Parkway > Norcross, GA 30092 > USA > Phone 770-447-4224 x3240 or 3341 > Fax 770-447-6928 > > Check out our website @: > http://www.lxe.com > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Seeking PCs that Pass CISPR
Dear All, Having been management for many years I'm not sure how to take that comment. However let me jump into the fray a bit. I think we discussed this issue some months ago as part of a different topic. When I was at Certelecom we settled for a number of years on using DEC PC platforms for test beds. We found them to be well made and well shielded. As someone already commented you need to assume that their useful life as a test platform with good EMI/EMC characteristics is limited to at the best 6 months. This is due to changes in technologies, use and abuse of the test bed and in particular for EMC degradation from EMC testing. Now that DEC is no longer the choice of other makes as test beds is a bit of a problem. A few customers supplied some Compaq Presarios as their test beds of choice and I remember having EMI problems with them. Another issue to consider is ease of use as a test bed. Some PC's have insufficient slots or just clumsy ways of getting into them to install cards. I would suggest that the main brands are good choices. One writer suggested that you contact the EMC department of the manufacturer for a courtesy compliance check. Depending on the size of the manufacturer and the size of the requester customer this this is possible but not always likely for most companies. We stipulated a right of return to our supplier if our EMI/EMC audit showed anything significant at 6db or less. I don't recall ever having to return a PC but I do remember a monitor that was replaced. It certainly would pay to contact the EMC department of the manufacturers to see what they might suggest. The Plug and Play aspect I don't buy into. I've seen some cases where combinations of compliant components create screaming EMI problems in combination/assembled product. Plug and Play to me says basically that each component manufacturer should have done his due diligence on his product and you would hope that the end assembler has done his too. However this is not always the case. When I start seeing or using or hearing the words I think, I assume, I thought or I believed my alarm bells go off. There is some fact that is missing or has been set aside for some assumptions. Caveat Emptor. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015. ron_pick...@hypercom.com wrote: > Derek, > > I'm sure that Mr. Grasso meant that in jest. Anyway, IMHO, if any EMC > engineer > put their faith in the plug-n-play scenario, he or she would be candidates > for > management. :-) > > Best regards, > Ron Pickard > ron_pick...@hypercom.com > > __ Reply Separator > _ > Subject: Re: Seeking PCs that Pass CISPR > Author: at INTERNET > Date:3/5/99 12:16 PM > > In a message dated 3/5/99 11:01:58 AM Central Standard Time, > gra...@louisville.stortek.com writes: > > << I am confused. What's the problem? > If we (the EMC Community) have faith in > Plug & Play (as the new FCC process is dubbed) then you > should be able to buy ANY FCC logoed PC and pass. > >> > > I can't imagine ANY EMC engineer having faith in a plug and play approach! > > Derek. > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). > > > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Pre-Compliance testing for radiated emissions using a current pro be
Doug, Tegam, Fischer and Pearson all make what would be called a current clamp as did Stoddard and Empire Devices when they were around. Absorption clamps such as Rohde and Schwarz and Schwarzbeck are not the same as the above products in the sense that they are measuring radiated emisssions effects of cables as opposed to dealing with cables that can't be measured by conventional methods. To my knowledge Tegam, Fischer and Pearson all have web sites. I have experience in using a Pearson, a Stoddard/Empire Devices(which I believe Fischer and Tegam both base their products on) as well as a Rohde and Schwarz absorption clamp. I hope this helps. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation 1+613 257 3015 POWELL, DOUG wrote: > > Hello Group, > > Some time ago (1996) in an email thread on absorbing clamps, Michael A. > Royer stated that CISPR 14 defines a method for using current clamps instead > of open area test sites. There was another thread for an on-site radiated > emissions test when in noisy environments that mentioned using clamp-on > probes. > > Additionally I recall and article in one of the trade magazines (Compliance > Engineering, ITEM, etc.) that described a method where a person could bundle > all of the service connections for a product into an RF current clamp-on > probe. The article also had information on converting the data on a > spectrum analyzer into equivalent open area test site numbers. > > I would like to perform a test like this but have been unable to find a > clamp-on probe that has at least a 100mm inner diameter and a frequency > range of 30 MHz to 1000 MHz, possibly this is limited by physics. > > Is there anyone out there who is able to point me to articles or websites > on: > > 1) RF current probe manufacturers. > 2) The article and/or mathematical algorithm on measuring radiated > emissions with current probe. > 3) Application information. > > Thank you for any help you can provide. > > == > Doug Powell, Compliance Engineer > Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. > Fort Collins, Colorado USA > > doug.pow...@aei.com > www.advanced-energy.com > == - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: French E1 75-ohm spec
Dear Dwight, I can't find in any documents I have that their is a national standard and national approval in France for 75 Ohm EI. They use the CTR's for the 120 Ohm. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257 3015 Dwight Hunnicutt wrote: > > What's the E1 75-ohm unbalanced standard for France? Do they have a > National requirement like the U.K. (NTR4)? Any bizarre differences from > U.K requirements? Any alternatives? thanks... > > D > > -- > > DWIGHT HUNNICUTT > Sr. Compliance Engineer > > > ** > * VINA Technologies,Inc. * > * Fremont, CA 94538 * > - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE and CSA
Lisa, This depends on who was the tester and issuer of your 61010 report. If it was your own company then CSA will need to retest. Your report will be of use. If however it is an agency such as UL or TUV or ETL etc. this may be treated differently provided that the product is the same in all respects. Matters such as ratings etc. may need to change to reflect the AC voltage differences. In some cases if it was done by a CB body some or any testing could be avoided provided that A) CSA and the body that tested your product are CB scheme members B) Both countries?bodies are members of the 1010 agreement that may exist in the CB scheme(not all follow this) C) The product is the same D) The approval is up to date at the time of application. Contacting CSA directly would be a good idea and they could advise you. When you make contact have the information I've listed above ready to give/tell CSA. CSA is not the only body approved to approve to CSA standards. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation (613) 257-3015 lisa_cef...@mksinst.com wrote: > > Maybe someone can clarify this for me. I have a product which is currently > CE approved including LVD to 61010 that I also wish to have CSA approved > for use in Canada. I know at one time there were conflicting requirements > but now I believe that CSA uses 61010 as well. What is involved in getting > both approvals? Does it require a retest by CSA to verify 61010 compliance > or will they accept the report done for the CE mark? Any help would be > appreciated. > > Happy Holidays! > >Lisa > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: MITI
Dear Mike, If you are talking about MITI of Japan it is likely that it is only a reference to a general requirement that is actually overseen by a different group, for example JIS, JETRO or VCCI, etc. I've also seen some Japanese manufacturers domestic purchase requirements for EMI/EMC/ESD and they seemed to be variations on the European norms but with some North American twists. Suggest you ask for more details and also look at the above sources I've mentioned. There are JETRO offices in the USA and in Canada. I've found them to be helpful in either providing details or sourcing where they can be found. Regards G, Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President R&D Services (613)-257-7752 Mike Hopkins wrote: > > I've been asked about testing and certification requirements for MITI but > have been unable to locate any information. Anyone out there know where i > can find such ?? Tried their web page, but couldn't see anything about > testing requirements. > > Thanks, > > Michael Hopkins > mhopk...@keytek.com > Tel: 1-978-275-0805 ext. 134 > Fax: 1-978-275-0850 > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Argentina Approvals 2
Scott, Rough Translation is as follows: Electronics Acoustics and ElectroAcoustics Electronic Apparatus Information Technology Equipment Audio and Video Equipment Incubators Vehicle Movement Speed Meters(this one can be translated different ways) Respirators Alarm Systems Information Technology Equipment ... IRAM. For Study 4100 Information Technology Equipment, including Electric Office Equipment. General Conditions for Safety(Equivalent to IEC 950) I hope this helps. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., Scott Douglas wrote: > > Hi Group, > > I have been poking around the web site for IRAM - Instituto Argentino de > Normalizacion. This can be reached via the Safety Link site > www.safetylink.com. Go to the Product Safety Resources area and find IRAM. > > >From what I can gather, IRAM is sort of like a UL for Argentina. They > research and write standards and apparently "certify?" products. I did not > get to any point that I could tell was the source of the requirement for > compliance. That is from Resolution 92 issued by the Ministry of Industry > and Interior Commerce. > > I did find the part in IRAM's site that lists what is covered (I think) > and it looks like they use something equivalent to IEC 950. I could not > tell if there are national deviations or any other information. Since the > site is entirely in Spanish I was lucky to find what I did. Perhaps one of > you out there can read Spanish and would make this a little more clear for > the rest of us. I clipped a pair of snippets form two different areas and > they are pasted below. > > >ELECTRÓNICA > >ACÚSTICA Y ELECTROACÚSTICA > > APARATOS ELECTRÓNICOS > > EQUIPAMIENTO DE TECNOLOGÍA DE LA INFORMACIÓN > >EQUIPAMIENTO ELECTROMÉDICO > > EQUIPOS DE AUDIO Y VIDEO > > INCUBADORAS > > MEDIDORES DE VELOCIDAD DE TRÁNSITO DE > >VEHÍCULOS > > RESPIRADORES > > SISTEMAS DE ALARMAS > > > > EQUIPAMIENTO DE TECNOLOGÍA DE LA INFORMACIÓN > > > and on another page: > > > > IRAM. Por estudiar > > > > 4100 Equipos de tecnología de la información, incluidos los > >equipos eléctricos de > > oficina. Condiciones generales de seguridad. (Equivalente a la > >IEC 950) > > Again, I don't' tread Spanish so was winging it here. FWIW. > > Scott > s_doug...@ecrm.com > > > > > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
[Fwd: Re: Korea standard for drives]
--- Begin Message --- Dear Jason, The Korean EMI standard is CISPR 22 based. The test site must be 10 metres. IBM had a number of test sites approved for Korean EMI testing. Otherwise there is only 1 lab outside of Korea that is accredited for Korean EMI, EMC and Telecommunications approval. That is KTL Canada(previously known as Certelecom). I believe that the Korean services contact is Ms. Ruth Varley(1-800-563-6336 or 613-737-9680). Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., (613) 257-7752 or 3015 Jason Chesley wrote: > > I have a client who is requesting testing to Koreas EMC standards. As far > as I know Korea requires testing to be done in country. This is still > true, right? Does anyone know the standards for ITE? > > Thanks in advance for any input, > > Jason L. Chesley > Business Services Group Manager > EMC Technology Services, Inc. > UL > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list > administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators). --- End Message ---
