Hire of 30kV ESD gun
All Can anyone point me to a company which has a Haefley PESD 3010 ESD gun for hire in the UK? Thanks Ian Gordon *** The information contained in this email and any attachments may be confidential and is provided solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail, its attachments or any information contained therein is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments. No responsibility is accepted for any virus or defect that might arise from opening this e-mail or attachments, whether or not it has been checked by anti-virus software. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
A 100 MHz oscilloscope and a Pelligrini target would be good for viewing all but the leading edge. With this one can look for runt pulses, correct current, correct decay time, and missing pulses. The rise time is 3 ns and the cheapest 100 MHz TEK oscilloscope is around $1300. A 500 MHz oscilloscope is needed to do it right. Dave From: Mike Hopkins [mailto:michael.hopk...@thermo.com] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:22 AM To: 'Chris Maxwell'; Brian Epstein; drcuthbert; ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Major waste of time -- been through this a number of times with people believing it would be a good idea to convert from time domain to frequency domain when evaluating ESD simulators -- WG14 of the ESD Association did quite a bit of work in this area and in the end, stick with the time domain for looking at the event... Best Regards, Michael Hopkins Control Technology Division Compliance Test Solutions Thermo Electron Corporation One Lowell Research Center Lowell, MA 01852 Tel: +1 978 275 0800 ext. 334 Mobile: +1 603 765 3736 michael.hopk...@thermo.com One Thermo, committed to integrity, intensity, innovation involvement -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [ mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:16 AM To: Brian Epstein; drcuthb...@micron.com; ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations I've often wondered... Most people who have an ESD gun have a spectrum analyzer. Most ESD guns have a multiple discharge setting. What if you made a coupling strip, such as a 12 inch long x 1 inch wide piece of copper tape mounted on a board; then used two 970 Ohm resistors to bond the strip to the ground reference plane (probably would want to make this connection with some kind of clip so you could connect/disconnect easily); then set up a jig which would hold a coax near field probe (the homemade kind with the end cut and the center conductor protruding a little bit) a fixed distance from this coupling strip. It seems that you could take your freshly calibrated ESD gun and discharge to the strip with your spectrum analyzer set on peak hold and a span covering 100 to 1000Mhz. You could make a number of discharges, say 10 or 20. Then you would have a spectral signature of your freshly calibrated ESD gun. Couldn't you then repeat the process daily and compare the signature to the original? Sorry that I haven't done this myself. I just thought of this idea this morning. Can any of the group's gurus see a hole in this idea? Chris Maxwell Design Engineer Nettest -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [ mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Epstein Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:16 PM To: drcuthb...@micron.com; ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations That actually works. Just zap the inside of your arm and measure the welt. -Original Message- From: drcuthb...@micron.com [ mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Thu 4/22/2004 11:18 AM To: ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations I often test 9 volt batteries with my tongue. A similar technique can be used to test the ESD gun. Just discharge it to your arm and gage the performance by how it feels. Just kidding, sort of. Dave Cuthbert -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [ mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gordon,Ian Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:46 AM To: Kevin Harris Cc: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Kevin You are only verifying that the equipment is working so there is no need to check absolute levels or waveforms etc, that is the function of the calibration. Our EMC lab has been assessed to ISO 17025 by TUV International and they are satisfied with the following procedure which is extracted from our EMC lab Quality Manual. In our in-house EMC reports (which TUV are prepared to endorse) we record the latest date of calibration. Following the next calibration we assess whether there is a requirement to repeat any work based on the outcome of that calibration i.e. if the device is outside the manufacturers specification we repeat the work performed in the intervening period
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
Major waste of time -- been through this a number of times with people believing it would be a good idea to convert from time domain to frequency domain when evaluating ESD simulators -- WG14 of the ESD Association did quite a bit of work in this area and in the end, stick with the time domain for looking at the event... Best Regards, Michael Hopkins Control Technology Division Compliance Test Solutions Thermo Electron Corporation One Lowell Research Center Lowell, MA 01852 Tel: +1 978 275 0800 ext. 334 Mobile: +1 603 765 3736 michael.hopk...@thermo.com One Thermo, committed to integrity, intensity, innovation involvement -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [ mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:16 AM To: Brian Epstein; drcuthb...@micron.com; ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations I've often wondered... Most people who have an ESD gun have a spectrum analyzer. Most ESD guns have a multiple discharge setting. What if you made a coupling strip, such as a 12 inch long x 1 inch wide piece of copper tape mounted on a board; then used two 970 Ohm resistors to bond the strip to the ground reference plane (probably would want to make this connection with some kind of clip so you could connect/disconnect easily); then set up a jig which would hold a coax near field probe (the homemade kind with the end cut and the center conductor protruding a little bit) a fixed distance from this coupling strip. It seems that you could take your freshly calibrated ESD gun and discharge to the strip with your spectrum analyzer set on peak hold and a span covering 100 to 1000Mhz. You could make a number of discharges, say 10 or 20. Then you would have a spectral signature of your freshly calibrated ESD gun. Couldn't you then repeat the process daily and compare the signature to the original? Sorry that I haven't done this myself. I just thought of this idea this morning. Can any of the group's gurus see a hole in this idea? Chris Maxwell Design Engineer Nettest -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [ mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Epstein Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:16 PM To: drcuthb...@micron.com; ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations That actually works. Just zap the inside of your arm and measure the welt. -Original Message- From: drcuthb...@micron.com [ mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Thu 4/22/2004 11:18 AM To: ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations I often test 9 volt batteries with my tongue. A similar technique can be used to test the ESD gun. Just discharge it to your arm and gage the performance by how it feels. Just kidding, sort of. Dave Cuthbert -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [ mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gordon,Ian Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:46 AM To: Kevin Harris Cc: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Kevin You are only verifying that the equipment is working so there is no need to check absolute levels or waveforms etc, that is the function of the calibration. Our EMC lab has been assessed to ISO 17025 by TUV International and they are satisfied with the following procedure which is extracted from our EMC lab Quality Manual. In our in-house EMC reports (which TUV are prepared to endorse) we record the latest date of calibration. Following the next calibration we assess whether there is a requirement to repeat any work based on the outcome of that calibration i.e. if the device is outside the manufacturers specification we repeat the work performed in the intervening period. 1. EQUIPMENT USED FOR BS EN 61000-4-2 a)Electro-static discharge gun S/N: 2494 In house equipment No. 9853-22-998 METHOD: 1. Configure item a as per section 6.5 of EMC lab instruction manual. (Details configuration as per manufacturers instructions) 2. Set the ESD gun to 8kV air discharge, single shot. 3. Attempt to discharge the gun to the insulating block (a block of wood 100 x 150 x 700mm
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
I've often wondered... Most people who have an ESD gun have a spectrum analyzer. Most ESD guns have a multiple discharge setting. What if you made a coupling strip, such as a 12 inch long x 1 inch wide piece of copper tape mounted on a board; then used two 970 Ohm resistors to bond the strip to the ground reference plane (probably would want to make this connection with some kind of clip so you could connect/disconnect easily); then set up a jig which would hold a coax near field probe (the homemade kind with the end cut and the center conductor protruding a little bit) a fixed distance from this coupling strip. It seems that you could take your freshly calibrated ESD gun and discharge to the strip with your spectrum analyzer set on peak hold and a span covering 100 to 1000Mhz. You could make a number of discharges, say 10 or 20. Then you would have a spectral signature of your freshly calibrated ESD gun. Couldn't you then repeat the process daily and compare the signature to the original? Sorry that I haven't done this myself. I just thought of this idea this morning. Can any of the group's gurus see a hole in this idea? Chris Maxwell Design Engineer Nettest From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Epstein Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:16 PM To: drcuthb...@micron.com; ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations That actually works. Just zap the inside of your arm and measure the welt. -Original Message- From: drcuthb...@micron.com [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Thu 4/22/2004 11:18 AM To: ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations I often test 9 volt batteries with my tongue. A similar technique can be used to test the ESD gun. Just discharge it to your arm and gage the performance by how it feels. Just kidding, sort of. Dave Cuthbert -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gordon,Ian Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:46 AM To: Kevin Harris Cc: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Kevin You are only verifying that the equipment is working so there is no need to check absolute levels or waveforms etc, that is the function of the calibration. Our EMC lab has been assessed to ISO 17025 by TUV International and they are satisfied with the following procedure which is extracted from our EMC lab Quality Manual. In our in-house EMC reports (which TUV are prepared to endorse) we record the latest date of calibration. Following the next calibration we assess whether there is a requirement to repeat any work based on the outcome of that calibration i.e. if the device is outside the manufacturers specification we repeat the work performed in the intervening period. 1. EQUIPMENT USED FOR BS EN 61000-4-2 a)Electro-static discharge gun S/N: 2494 In house equipment No. 9853-22-998 METHOD: 1. Configure item a as per section 6.5 of EMC lab instruction manual. (Details configuration as per manufacturers instructions) 2. Set the ESD gun to 8kV air discharge, single shot. 3. Attempt to discharge the gun to the insulating block (a block of wood 100 x 150 x 700mm) on the earth plane. 4. Check that a discharge did not occur by observing no audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates 0.0kV. 5. Attempt to discharge the gun to the earth plane. 6. Check that a discharge did occur by observing an audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates over 6kV. 7. Update the Equipment checklist spreadsheet to show that these pieces of equipment are functioning correctly. Ian Gordon -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 21 April 2004 20:51 To: Kevin Harris; EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Never done this before, so this is shooting from the hip. If you have a receiver, as opposed to an analyzer, you could, using sufficient attenuation, drive the input directly or using some transducer
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
You guys have to be all kinds of fun at a party. Come on over, let me buy you a beer. :) Mat Aschenberg Agency Engineer II EchoStar Technologies Corporation Tel: 303-706-5064 Fax: 303-723-3901 Cell: 303-906-6224 Email: mat.aschenb...@echostar.com Email Alternate: mat.aschenb...@ieee.org From: Brian Epstein [mailto:bepst...@veeco.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:16 PM To: drcuthb...@micron.com; ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations That actually works. Just zap the inside of your arm and measure the welt. -Original Message- From: drcuthb...@micron.com [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Thu 4/22/2004 11:18 AM To: ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations I often test 9 volt batteries with my tongue. A similar technique can be used to test the ESD gun. Just discharge it to your arm and gage the performance by how it feels. Just kidding, sort of. Dave Cuthbert -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gordon,Ian Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:46 AM To: Kevin Harris Cc: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Kevin You are only verifying that the equipment is working so there is no need to check absolute levels or waveforms etc, that is the function of the calibration. Our EMC lab has been assessed to ISO 17025 by TUV International and they are satisfied with the following procedure which is extracted from our EMC lab Quality Manual. In our in-house EMC reports (which TUV are prepared to endorse) we record the latest date of calibration. Following the next calibration we assess whether there is a requirement to repeat any work based on the outcome of that calibration i.e. if the device is outside the manufacturers specification we repeat the work performed in the intervening period. 1. EQUIPMENT USED FOR BS EN 61000-4-2 a)Electro-static discharge gun S/N: 2494 In house equipment No. 9853-22-998 METHOD: 1. Configure item a as per section 6.5 of EMC lab instruction manual. (Details configuration as per manufacturers instructions) 2. Set the ESD gun to 8kV air discharge, single shot. 3. Attempt to discharge the gun to the insulating block (a block of wood 100 x 150 x 700mm) on the earth plane. 4. Check that a discharge did not occur by observing no audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates 0.0kV. 5. Attempt to discharge the gun to the earth plane. 6. Check that a discharge did occur by observing an audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates over 6kV. 7. Update the Equipment checklist spreadsheet to show that these pieces of equipment are functioning correctly. Ian Gordon -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 21 April 2004 20:51 To: Kevin Harris; EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Never done this before, so this is shooting from the hip. If you have a receiver, as opposed to an analyzer, you could, using sufficient attenuation, drive the input directly or using some transducer to measure the spectral signature from dc to daylight right after calibration, and run checks against that for intermediate checks. If you have an analyzer with even rudimentary preselection, you can do the same. Obviously you would have to use the max hold function and run multiple shots. I don't know how fast those things recharge - if it takes a long time that would make this technique impractical. From: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Reply-To: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:04 -0400 To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
That actually works. Just zap the inside of your arm and measure the welt. -Original Message- From: drcuthb...@micron.com [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Thu 4/22/2004 11:18 AM To: ian.gor...@bocedwards.com; kevinharr...@dsc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations I often test 9 volt batteries with my tongue. A similar technique can be used to test the ESD gun. Just discharge it to your arm and gage the performance by how it feels. Just kidding, sort of. Dave Cuthbert -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gordon,Ian Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:46 AM To: Kevin Harris Cc: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Kevin You are only verifying that the equipment is working so there is no need to check absolute levels or waveforms etc, that is the function of the calibration. Our EMC lab has been assessed to ISO 17025 by TUV International and they are satisfied with the following procedure which is extracted from our EMC lab Quality Manual. In our in-house EMC reports (which TUV are prepared to endorse) we record the latest date of calibration. Following the next calibration we assess whether there is a requirement to repeat any work based on the outcome of that calibration i.e. if the device is outside the manufacturers specification we repeat the work performed in the intervening period. 1. EQUIPMENT USED FOR BS EN 61000-4-2 a)Electro-static discharge gun S/N: 2494 In house equipment No. 9853-22-998 METHOD: 1. Configure item a as per section 6.5 of EMC lab instruction manual. (Details configuration as per manufacturers instructions) 2. Set the ESD gun to 8kV air discharge, single shot. 3. Attempt to discharge the gun to the insulating block (a block of wood 100 x 150 x 700mm) on the earth plane. 4. Check that a discharge did not occur by observing no audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates 0.0kV. 5. Attempt to discharge the gun to the earth plane. 6. Check that a discharge did occur by observing an audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates over 6kV. 7. Update the Equipment checklist spreadsheet to show that these pieces of equipment are functioning correctly. Ian Gordon -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 21 April 2004 20:51 To: Kevin Harris; EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Never done this before, so this is shooting from the hip. If you have a receiver, as opposed to an analyzer, you could, using sufficient attenuation, drive the input directly or using some transducer to measure the spectral signature from dc to daylight right after calibration, and run checks against that for intermediate checks. If you have an analyzer with even rudimentary preselection, you can do the same. Obviously you would have to use the max hold function and run multiple shots. I don't know how fast those things recharge - if it takes a long time that would make this technique impractical. From: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Reply-To: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:04 -0400 To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
I often test 9 volt batteries with my tongue. A similar technique can be used to test the ESD gun. Just discharge it to your arm and gage the performance by how it feels. Just kidding, sort of. Dave Cuthbert From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gordon,Ian Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:46 AM To: Kevin Harris Cc: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Kevin You are only verifying that the equipment is working so there is no need to check absolute levels or waveforms etc, that is the function of the calibration. Our EMC lab has been assessed to ISO 17025 by TUV International and they are satisfied with the following procedure which is extracted from our EMC lab Quality Manual. In our in-house EMC reports (which TUV are prepared to endorse) we record the latest date of calibration. Following the next calibration we assess whether there is a requirement to repeat any work based on the outcome of that calibration i.e. if the device is outside the manufacturers specification we repeat the work performed in the intervening period. 1. EQUIPMENT USED FOR BS EN 61000-4-2 a)Electro-static discharge gun S/N: 2494 In house equipment No. 9853-22-998 METHOD: 1. Configure item a as per section 6.5 of EMC lab instruction manual. (Details configuration as per manufacturers instructions) 2. Set the ESD gun to 8kV air discharge, single shot. 3. Attempt to discharge the gun to the insulating block (a block of wood 100 x 150 x 700mm) on the earth plane. 4. Check that a discharge did not occur by observing no audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates 0.0kV. 5. Attempt to discharge the gun to the earth plane. 6. Check that a discharge did occur by observing an audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates over 6kV. 7. Update the Equipment checklist spreadsheet to show that these pieces of equipment are functioning correctly. Ian Gordon From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 21 April 2004 20:51 To: Kevin Harris; EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Never done this before, so this is shooting from the hip. If you have a receiver, as opposed to an analyzer, you could, using sufficient attenuation, drive the input directly or using some transducer to measure the spectral signature from dc to daylight right after calibration, and run checks against that for intermediate checks. If you have an analyzer with even rudimentary preselection, you can do the same. Obviously you would have to use the max hold function and run multiple shots. I don't know how fast those things recharge - if it takes a long time that would make this technique impractical. From: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Reply-To: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:04 -0400 To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com *** This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the BOC Group plc or any of its affiliates. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked
Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
In a message dated 4/22/2004 11:07:57 AM Central Daylight Time, kurt.fisc...@hyperinterop.com writes: Kevin, You actually have 2 seperate issues: 1. The verification (or calibration) of the ESD simulator which must be performed per the 61000-4-2 standard (either internally or externally). 2. The quality assurance checks per 17025 of the ESD Simulator and ESD setup. This could be the same as #1 if your organization has the internal capabilities to perform the verification. Different ESD simulators have different failure modes so you may wish to consult with the ESD Simulator manufacturer or check the User's manual to determine what is appropriate. Good Luck! Kurt Fischer From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kevin Harris Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 8:51 AM To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com Hi, Kurt indicates a big flaw in this whole thing. In the USA, Calibration = Validation They should NOT be the same. Validation should be a quick check, not a calibration. Why on earth would equipment be sent for cal in the first place, if the lab had to do it again periodically between calibrations. Dumb, but until the definition is changed, we are stuck with it. If a lab is being able to call a quick check validation by their accrediting body, this needs to be passed on to me: the one I am familiar with does not. Help me provide objective evidence so I can help drive consistent assessments. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner, L F Research EMI Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, IL 61065
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
Kevin, You actually have 2 seperate issues: 1. The verification (or calibration) of the ESD simulator which must be performed per the 61000-4-2 standard (either internally or externally). 2. The quality assurance checks per 17025 of the ESD Simulator and ESD setup. This could be the same as #1 if your organization has the internal capabilities to perform the verification. Different ESD simulators have different failure modes so you may wish to consult with the ESD Simulator manufacturer or check the User's manual to determine what is appropriate. Good Luck! Kurt Fischer From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kevin Harris Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 8:51 AM To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com
Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
Kevin: There is a presentation regarding ESD on the RAFT website, it may be of some help as it does talk about calibration. It is titled ESD Today www.raft-global.org Regards: Kevin Keegan Senior Associate KES Associates 1 Stonecroft Terrace Kanata, Ontario Canada K2K 2V1 Tel: 613-592-0820 Email: kkee...@kesandassociates.com Web: http://www.kesandassociates.com Regulatory Approval Forum Chairperson www.raft-global.org IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is specifically addressed and should not be read by, or delivered to, any other person. Such material may contain privileged or confidential information, the disclosure or other use of which by other than the intended recipient may result in the breach of certain laws or the infringement of rights of third parties. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately and notify the sender. I thank you in advance for your co- operation and assistance. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
Kevin You are only verifying that the equipment is working so there is no need to check absolute levels or waveforms etc, that is the function of the calibration. Our EMC lab has been assessed to ISO 17025 by TUV International and they are satisfied with the following procedure which is extracted from our EMC lab Quality Manual. In our in-house EMC reports (which TUV are prepared to endorse) we record the latest date of calibration. Following the next calibration we assess whether there is a requirement to repeat any work based on the outcome of that calibration i.e. if the device is outside the manufacturers specification we repeat the work performed in the intervening period. 1. EQUIPMENT USED FOR BS EN 61000-4-2 a)Electro-static discharge gun S/N: 2494 In house equipment No. 9853-22-998 METHOD: 1. Configure item a as per section 6.5 of EMC lab instruction manual. (Details configuration as per manufacturers instructions) 2. Set the ESD gun to 8kV air discharge, single shot. 3. Attempt to discharge the gun to the insulating block (a block of wood 100 x 150 x 700mm) on the earth plane. 4. Check that a discharge did not occur by observing no audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates 0.0kV. 5. Attempt to discharge the gun to the earth plane. 6. Check that a discharge did occur by observing an audible signal from the gun and the display of the gun indicates over 6kV. 7. Update the Equipment checklist spreadsheet to show that these pieces of equipment are functioning correctly. Ian Gordon From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 21 April 2004 20:51 To: Kevin Harris; EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Never done this before, so this is shooting from the hip. If you have a receiver, as opposed to an analyzer, you could, using sufficient attenuation, drive the input directly or using some transducer to measure the spectral signature from dc to daylight right after calibration, and run checks against that for intermediate checks. If you have an analyzer with even rudimentary preselection, you can do the same. Obviously you would have to use the max hold function and run multiple shots. I don't know how fast those things recharge - if it takes a long time that would make this technique impractical. From: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Reply-To: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:04 -0400 To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com *** This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the BOC Group plc or any of its affiliates. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked by anti-virus software for the presence of computer viruses. However, the BOC Group plc or any of its affiliates accepts no responsibility for any virus or defect that might arise from opening this e-mail or attachments. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line
ESD Gun Verification presentation available!
Greetings: The presentation downloads from the Denver Section IEEE Conference is available on our website at http://www.ieee.org/rmcemc One of the presentations is on ESD gun verification by Ken Wyatt from Agilent. Enjoy! Charles Grasso RMCEMC Chair From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 12:51 PM To: Kevin Harris; EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Never done this before, so this is shooting from the hip. If you have a receiver, as opposed to an analyzer, you could, using sufficient attenuation, drive the input directly or using some transducer to measure the spectral signature from dc to daylight right after calibration, and run checks against that for intermediate checks. If you have an analyzer with even rudimentary preselection, you can do the same. Obviously you would have to use the max hold function and run multiple shots. I don't know how fast those things recharge - if it takes a long time that would make this technique impractical. From: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Reply-To: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:04 -0400 To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com
Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
Never done this before, so this is shooting from the hip. If you have a receiver, as opposed to an analyzer, you could, using sufficient attenuation, drive the input directly or using some transducer to measure the spectral signature from dc to daylight right after calibration, and run checks against that for intermediate checks. If you have an analyzer with even rudimentary preselection, you can do the same. Obviously you would have to use the max hold function and run multiple shots. I don't know how fast those things recharge - if it takes a long time that would make this technique impractical. From: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com Reply-To: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:04 -0400 To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com
Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
I have read this paper and it is excellent, the problem still persists that for accreditation purposes the ISO TR10605 method is the only once accepted. Rob Kado EMC Engineer VWS - Auburn Hills, USA Tel: 248-340-3828 / Fax: 248-340-3316 Internal Location 3M2 Camille Good goodca_ve...@yahoo.com To: Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com, EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Sent by:emc-p...@ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordomo.icc: eee.org Subject:Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations 04/21/2004 01:48 PM Please respond to Camille Good Varuzhan Kocharyan and Dave Tolman at Northwest EMC in Hillsboro, Oregon, developed a method that might be what you are looking for. The paper can be found at http://www.nwemc.com/1136.pdf. Varuzhan gave a talk based on this paper at our local IEEE EMC Chapter sometime in the last year or so and if I remember correctly, I think the paper was also presented at the most recent IEEE EMC Symposium, I think it was held in Toronto(???). Abstract: The management of ESD simulators and standardized ESD test stations to assure quality test results continues to be a major concern for test houses. Early detection of malfunctioning ESD equipment is possible if a day-by-day check is performed. The standard system for verification of ESD simulators is large, expensive and not practical for an everyday check . This paper describes the express diagnostic method aimed to locate the problems with ei-ther the ESD simulator or the test station. A 100MHz?.500MHz bandwidth oscilloscope can be used to measure the quasi-electrostatic field of the horizontal coupling plane after the package of discharges has been applied. The malfunction of an ESD simulator and/or test station is discovered as a deviation from the baseline measurements, which are taken immediately after calibration. This method exposes any changes of the indicated discharge voltage or the horizontal coupling plane bleeder resistor impedance as well as changes in the discharge networks of ESD simulators. The oscillograms and the statistical analysis of data are presented in this paper, which support the claims that this method can assist in detection of potential problems of ESD equipment. Camille Good, Portland, Oregon --- Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com wrote: Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your
Re: ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
Varuzhan Kocharyan and Dave Tolman at Northwest EMC in Hillsboro, Oregon, developed a method that might be what you are looking for. The paper can be found at http://www.nwemc.com/1136.pdf. Varuzhan gave a talk based on this paper at our local IEEE EMC Chapter sometime in the last year or so and if I remember correctly, I think the paper was also presented at the most recent IEEE EMC Symposium, I think it was held in Toronto(???). Abstract: The management of ESD simulators and standardized ESD test stations to assure quality test results continues to be a major concern for test houses. Early detection of malfunctioning ESD equipment is possible if a day-by-day check is performed. The standard system for verification of ESD simulators is large, expensive and not practical for an everyday check . This paper describes the express diagnostic method aimed to locate the problems with ei-ther the ESD simulator or the test station. A 100MHz….500MHz bandwidth oscilloscope can be used to measure the quasi-electrostatic field of the horizontal coupling plane after the package of discharges has been applied. The malfunction of an ESD simulator and/or test station is discovered as a deviation from the baseline measurements, which are taken immediately after calibration. This method exposes any changes of the indicated discharge voltage or the horizontal coupling plane bleeder resistor impedance as well as changes in the discharge networks of ESD simulators. The oscillograms and the statistical analysis of data are presented in this paper, which support the claims that this method can assist in detection of potential problems of ESD equipment. Camille Good, Portland, Oregon --- Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com wrote: Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
ESD Gun Verification between calibrations
Dear Colleagues, We are in the process of moving some of the ESD testing we currently do (as pre-compliance to formal testing at an agency or test house) to formal testing under a laboratory accreditation program. In that regard, the issue of verification of the ESD gun's performance has come up between calibration cycles. Short of spending a lot of coin on a scope with a very fast one shot capture and running the formal calibration test as a method of periodic verification, does anyone have some suggestions for alternative methods that aren't so expensive but would still satisfy an accreditor as being a reasonable approach. Thanks Kind Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com
RE: ESD Gun Manufacturers
I hear better things about KeyTek (Thermo) Best Regards, Michael Hopkins Manager, EMC Technologies Thermo Electron Corporation Control Technology Division EMC ESD Simulation Solutions One Lowell Research Center Lowell, MA 01852 Tel: +1 978 275 0800 ext. 334 Mobile: +1 603 765 3736 michael.hopk...@thermo.com www.thermo.com/esd One Thermo, committed to integrity, intensity, innovation involvement From: Chris Faust [mailto:cfa...@hubbell-haefely.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:22 AM To: kevinharr...@dsc.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD Gun Manufacturers I hear good things about Haefely. ;-) Chris Faust Haefely EMC Christopher M. Faust EMC Product Manager / North American Sales Manager Hipotronics, Inc. - Haefely EMC Division 1650 Route 22 Brewster, NY 10509 Tel: (845) 279-3644 x264 Fax: (845) 279-2467 Email: cfa...@hubbell-haefely.com www.haefelyemc.com Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com 02/04/04 09:20AM Hello, I am looking for a ESD gun capable of going up to 25KV air discharge. I have found equipment from Schaffner and Keytek that fits the bill. Does anybody know of other manufacturers that I should consider. Thanks Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. www.hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated **
RE: ESD Gun Manufacturers
Kevin, Haefely is worth a look: http://www.haefely.com The have an ESD gun going up to 30kV. Best regards, Michael From: Kevin Harris [mailto:kevinharr...@dsc.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:21 PM To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: ESD Gun Manufacturers Hello, I am looking for a ESD gun capable of going up to 25KV air discharge. I have found equipment from Schaffner and Keytek that fits the bill. Does anybody know of other manufacturers that I should consider. Thanks Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com
Re: ESD Gun Manufacturers
I hear good things about Haefely. ;-) Chris Faust Haefely EMC Christopher M. Faust EMC Product Manager / North American Sales Manager Hipotronics, Inc. - Haefely EMC Division 1650 Route 22 Brewster, NY 10509 Tel: (845) 279-3644 x264 Fax: (845) 279-2467 Email: cfa...@hubbell-haefely.com www.haefelyemc.com Kevin Harris kevinharr...@dsc.com 02/04/04 09:20AM Hello, I am looking for a ESD gun capable of going up to 25KV air discharge. I have found equipment from Schaffner and Keytek that fits the bill. Does anybody know of other manufacturers that I should consider. Thanks Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. www.hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated **
RE: ESD Gun Manufacturers
Try with EM test http://www.emtest.com/ Paolo _ Paolo Gemma Siemens Mobile Communications S.p.A. SMC PG MW ST EMC Safety SS Padana sup. KM 158 20060 Cassina de' Pecchi (MI) Italy phone +39 02 9526 6587fax +39 02 9526 6375 mobile +39 348 3690185 e-mail paolo.ge...@siemens.com _ From: Kevin Harris [mailto:kevinharr...@dsc.com] Sent: mercoledì 4 febbraio 2004 15.21 To: EMC-PSTC (emc-p...@ieee.org) Subject: ESD Gun Manufacturers Hello, I am looking for a ESD gun capable of going up to 25KV air discharge. I have found equipment from Schaffner and Keytek that fits the bill. Does anybody know of other manufacturers that I should consider. Thanks Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com
ESD Gun Manufacturers
Hello, I am looking for a ESD gun capable of going up to 25KV air discharge. I have found equipment from Schaffner and Keytek that fits the bill. Does anybody know of other manufacturers that I should consider. Thanks Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals Group Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com
Re: Design of low cost ESD gun.
In a message dated 5/11/2003 4:38:57 PM Central Daylight Time, jde...@nas.com writes: Given a choice, I'd recommend buying a proper Haefely-Trench Generator (absolutely the best gun on the market, in my opinion). Otherwise, visit your local market and get a BBQ Lighter. Hi Jim, have to take issue with you on that one... :-) Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
Re: Design of low cost ESD gun.
Mr. Leung: If you want a REALLY low-cost ESD gun, you might consider a simple piezoelectric Barbeque Lighter. I wrote a short construction article about this back in 1997 (Test and Measurement World Magazine). BBQ Lighters are pretty gross, but they give a reasonably repeatable 0.5 cm spark. Use a fine hacksaw to expose the tip. Solder a wire to the metal case, and connect it to ground (to provide a return path for electrons). Uncontrolled risetime, polarity, and amplitude, of course. I have found (in our Laboratory) that this Air Discharge BBQ Gun will catch 80% of valid ESD failures. In other words, if your EUT passes the BBQ Lighter test, the chances are fairly good that it will pass a $15,000 Haefely-Trench ESD Generator. Given a choice, I'd recommend buying a proper Haefely-Trench Generator (absolutely the best gun on the market, in my opinion). Otherwise, visit your local market and get a BBQ Lighter. Have fun! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA j...@acmetesting.com p.s. Make certain to empty the Butane from the BBQ Lighter before fooling around with it! Go outside (in fresh air) and hold the trigger down. Or, drill a tiny hole in the tank...outside! - Original Message - From: lfresea...@aol.com To: ywle...@vtc.edu.hk ; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Design of low cost ESD gun. In a message dated 5/8/2003 8:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time, ywle...@vtc.edu.hk writes: Can anyone provide some information about I want to make a low cost ESD gun for ESD test, the peak voltage about 4 or 8 k volt ( if it can induced + and - poloarity will be more better), the waveform just little similar to the specification, thanks. Mike makes a good point. Since Schaffner has introduced a new ESD gun, you may be able to find used older models very reasonably priced as folks look to trade up. Suggest you contact one of the ESD gun manufacturers to see if they have used equipment for sale. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
Re: Design of low cost ESD gun.
In a message dated 5/8/2003 8:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time, ywle...@vtc.edu.hk writes: Can anyone provide some information about I want to make a low cost ESD gun for ESD test, the peak voltage about 4 or 8 k volt ( if it can induced + and - poloarity will be more better), the waveform just little similar to the specification, thanks. Mike makes a good point. Since Schaffner has introduced a new ESD gun, you may be able to find used older models very reasonably priced as folks look to trade up. Suggest you contact one of the ESD gun manufacturers to see if they have used equipment for sale. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
Re: ESD gun verification
Most spectrum analyzers don't do very well with a single event. The repetitive waveform needs to be there to be operated upon. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 101 E San Fernando, Suite 402 San Jose, CA 95112 On Fri, 9 May 2003 08:28:11 -0400 Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com wrote: One question that struck me is: Why isn't a spectrum analyzer used to verify the waveform? Most labs don't have a 4Ghz oscilloscope; but they almost all have a 10Ghz spectrum analyzer. It seems that the spectrum of the waveform should be just as traceable and repeatable as the waveform itself. From my own experience, I use this method to quickly verify our EFT generator in our own lab (although I'm just a manufacturer, not a third party lab). We have the EFT generator calibrated yearly; and whenever I use it, I turn on the spectrum analyzer and read the spectrum just to make sure that it's working. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD gun verification
Dear Chris, Why not a Spectrum Analyzer? For none-traceble verification it is a very good tool. For tracable measurements there are the following problems: - The amplitude uncertainty is about +/- 1.5 dB =about 15 % - The pulse is repeated let's say 20 times a second, but the pulse is only 100 ns wide. So the requirements for the linearity of the mixer is very high. David Pommerenke From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 7:28 AM To: Pommerenke, David; John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD gun verification One question that struck me is: Why isn't a spectrum analyzer used to verify the waveform? Most labs don't have a 4Ghz oscilloscope; but they almost all have a 10Ghz spectrum analyzer. It seems that the spectrum of the waveform should be just as traceable and repeatable as the waveform itself. From my own experience, I use this method to quickly verify our EFT generator in our own lab (although I'm just a manufacturer, not a third party lab). We have the EFT generator calibrated yearly; and whenever I use it, I turn on the spectrum analyzer and read the spectrum just to make sure that it's working. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: Pommerenke, David [SMTP:davi...@umr.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:46 PM To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD gun verification John, The IEC TC77b WG-9 made clarification for what was intended to be understood as verification and what was intended to be a calibration. Different words are used now, but the new version of he standard 77b/378/CDV tries to eliminate the misunderstanding by some metrologists. They think that the present standard requires a traceble calibration as a daily or weekly test, not only a yearly calibration. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:25 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD gun verification I read in !emc-pstc that Pommerenke, David davi...@umr.edu wrote (in a5d66e6b6f478b48a3cef22aa4b9fca378e...@umr-mail1.umr.edu) about 'ESD gun verification' on Wed, 7 May 2003: Brain, Spelling! I like to repeat: For verification you do not need calibrated equipment or full bandwidth. The verification is just a method to increase trust in the calibration. If you use some homemade current target and a 500 MHz scope, you will get a pretty good picture of the waveform and detect most changes in an ESD generator. A comb-generator run on an OATS is not a NSA calibration, still it establishes trust in the antennas, cables and the spectrum analyzer. Quite right and sensible, but tell that to a UK metrologist! If it's not 200% accurate, it's not believable.(;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
RE: ESD gun verification
One question that struck me is: Why isn't a spectrum analyzer used to verify the waveform? Most labs don't have a 4Ghz oscilloscope; but they almost all have a 10Ghz spectrum analyzer. It seems that the spectrum of the waveform should be just as traceable and repeatable as the waveform itself. From my own experience, I use this method to quickly verify our EFT generator in our own lab (although I'm just a manufacturer, not a third party lab). We have the EFT generator calibrated yearly; and whenever I use it, I turn on the spectrum analyzer and read the spectrum just to make sure that it's working. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: Pommerenke, David [SMTP:davi...@umr.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:46 PM To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD gun verification John, The IEC TC77b WG-9 made clarification for what was intended to be understood as verification and what was intended to be a calibration. Different words are used now, but the new version of he standard 77b/378/CDV tries to eliminate the misunderstanding by some metrologists. They think that the present standard requires a traceble calibration as a daily or weekly test, not only a yearly calibration. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:25 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD gun verification I read in !emc-pstc that Pommerenke, David davi...@umr.edu wrote (in a5d66e6b6f478b48a3cef22aa4b9fca378e...@umr-mail1.umr.edu) about 'ESD gun verification' on Wed, 7 May 2003: Brain, Spelling! I like to repeat: For verification you do not need calibrated equipment or full bandwidth. The verification is just a method to increase trust in the calibration. If you use some homemade current target and a 500 MHz scope, you will get a pretty good picture of the waveform and detect most changes in an ESD generator. A comb-generator run on an OATS is not a NSA calibration, still it establishes trust in the antennas, cables and the spectrum analyzer. Quite right and sensible, but tell that to a UK metrologist! If it's not 200% accurate, it's not believable.(;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived
RE: Design of low cost ESD gun.
Since you can buy a compliant gun for a few thousand dollars (used, demos, etc), why would you want to spend at least that much in time and materials to get something close?? Mike Hopkins Thermo Electron michael.hopk...@thermo.com From: LEUNG YAT WAH DEREK [mailto:ywle...@vtc.edu.hk] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 9:50 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Design of low cost ESD gun. Can anyone provide some information about I want to make a low cost ESD gun for ESD test, the peak voltage about 4 or 8 k volt ( if it can induced + and - poloarity will be more better), the waveform just little similar to the specification, thanks. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Design of low cost ESD gun.
Can anyone provide some information about I want to make a low cost ESD gun for ESD test, the peak voltage about 4 or 8 k volt ( if it can induced + and - poloarity will be more better), the waveform just little similar to the specification, thanks. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD gun verification
John, The IEC TC77b WG-9 made clarification for what was intended to be understood as verification and what was intended to be a calibration. Different words are used now, but the new version of he standard 77b/378/CDV tries to eliminate the misunderstanding by some metrologists. They think that the present standard requires a traceble calibration as a daily or weekly test, not only a yearly calibration. David Pommerenke From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:25 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD gun verification I read in !emc-pstc that Pommerenke, David davi...@umr.edu wrote (in a5d66e6b6f478b48a3cef22aa4b9fca378e...@umr-mail1.umr.edu) about 'ESD gun verification' on Wed, 7 May 2003: Brain, Spelling! I like to repeat: For verification you do not need calibrated equipment or full bandwidth. The verification is just a method to increase trust in the calibration. If you use some homemade current target and a 500 MHz scope, you will get a pretty good picture of the waveform and detect most changes in an ESD generator. A comb-generator run on an OATS is not a NSA calibration, still it establishes trust in the antennas, cables and the spectrum analyzer. Quite right and sensible, but tell that to a UK metrologist! If it's not 200% accurate, it's not believable.(;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD gun verification
Brain, I like to repeat: For verification you do not need calibrated equipment or full bandwidth. The verification is just a method to increase trust in the calibration. If you use some homemade current target and a 500 MHz scope, you will get a pretty good picture of the waveform and detect most changes in an ESD generator. A comb-generator run on an OATS is not a NSA calibration, still it establishes trust in the antennas, cables and the spectrum analyzer. David Pommerenke University Missouri Rolla From: brian_ku...@leco.com [mailto:brian_ku...@leco.com] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:04 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re:ESD gun verification John, First I would like to say how impressed I am with Jim for building his own target. Reading through his detailed description of all he went through made me think the $2000 is well worth it. I wish I had the skill and resources to do stuff like that. Years ago we used to just air discharge our ESD gun to make sure it was working ok. We never performed a verification test. This we thought was covered by the annual calibration and assumed that the ESD gun was designed solid enough to not have to worry about it. It wasn't until some of these Laboratory Accreditation organizations got popular that daily verification of your ESD gun required the verification of the current waveform. This makes a fairly inexpensive test very expensive for most labs. In addition to the $5000-$8000 for the ESD gun, now you have to have the equipment to do verification. For us this was a $2000 target, a faraday cage, and a $20,000 1Ghz bandwidth digital storage scope. If you are testing everyday your very expensive scope is for the most part dedicated for this purpose. You can use cheaper scopes, but it has to have a high bandwidth and storage capabilities. A huge investment no doubt if you want to do it right. BTW, don't you also have to verify your scope is working correctly? Hmmm. The other issue is with the time involved with performing the verification test. To look at all the details of the current waveform for just a few voltages both positive and negative polarity plus the time to document and keep records of it takes time many customers don't want to pay for. Somehow you have to work in the cost because time is money and someone has to pay for it. To test every voltage level and polarity can take more time than the ESD test itself. So a happy reasonable medium has to be found. In a perfect world someone would invent a little box I can discharge my ESD gun into and a little green light would come on to tell me it is operating OK. If someone could invent such a box and keep it inexpensive, I would buy one. Of course it would probably cost a fortune to get the box calibrated and how do I verify the box is working correctly? Hmmm. Brian Reply Separator Subject:ESD gun verification Author: jde...@nas.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 5/05/03 12:02 PM John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do verification in between the expensive annual calibrations. I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a calibration (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the shape of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll
Re: ESD Gun targets
Dave: I would be delighted to take a target (on loan) and do my best to evaluate it ... within the limitations of my instrumentation. Thanks for the offer. Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com To: 'Jim Ericson' jde...@nas.com; emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 7:45 AM Subject: ESD Gun targets Jim, the Pelligrini Target spec in EN61000-4-2 is quite a challenge to meet. The 1 dB insertion loss delta from DC to 4 GHz to be exact. The simulation of my proposed PCB design shows that it can meet the spec and I have the equipment to verify this. I will build a few targets. Perhaps a few of you would like a target to use and to provide feedback. Who wants a target? Step right up and get your red hot Pelligrini targets! Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology -Original Message- From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 5:09 PM To: emcpost Cc: drcuthbert Subject: Re: ESD Gun verification Dave: Yes. The current-sensing transducer that I built (Pelligrini Target) is per the Annex B drawings in EN 61000-4-2:1995 + A1:1998 +A2:2001. It has five paralleled 240 Ohm resistors arranged radially around the oscilloscope side to give 48 Ohms. On the ESD Gun side are twenty-five radially spaced 50 Ohm resistors to give 2 Ohms. Transconductance is 1 Amp/1 Volt into 50 Ohms. The present Standard requires a minimum 1 GHz bandwidth oscilloscope. I use a Pasternak Model PE7002-30 (DC to 2 GHz) 1 Watt Attenuator between the Pelligrini Target and the scope (voltage ratio of 32). The oscilloscope is a Tektronix 7104 with 7B10 time base, and a 7A26 dual-trace amplifier. I'll email a couple of photos to you (offline), and copy Mr. Pommerenke and Mr. Kinney. Regards, Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com To: 'Jim Ericson' jde...@nas.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:07 AM Subject: RE: ESD Gun verification Jim, I simulated this. I am assuming the circuit is a 2 ohm resistor to GND. If so, the series inductance must be 0.1 nH for the 2 ohm resistor. Does this sound right? I can do this with 25 paralleled 49.9 ohm resistors arranged radially around the input (discharge) point. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology -Original Message- From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 PM To: emcpost Subject: ESD Gun verification John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do verification in between the expensive annual calibrations. I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a calibration (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the shape of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for verification. Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens to change, you'll at least know what to do next. Give me a call if you'd like a photo. Good luck! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC
Re: ESD Gun verification
I can probably shed some light into this subject as I am the original designer of the Pelligrini target.In 1978/1979 I designed the coaxial target for waveform verification as our client, Dave Reynolds of Digital Equipment Corp., insisted on certain waveform adherence from our company (Experimental Physics Corp.) The original target used a BNC connector and it was designed to have better frequency response than the one DEC was using consisting of two parallel PC boards with the resistors between them (nick-named the ski-sled). DEC was working with the IEC committee on 801-2 which got ahold of the target provided to DEC. Even Mr. Pelligrini does not know why it was named after him! The target design transfered to Electro-Metrics when Experimental Physics solds its ESD product line to Electro-Metrics which conitnued to market the target for a few more years. The basic design evolved into the N connector and SMA connector variants. University of Berlin along with Dr. David Pommerenke extended the design with surface mount resistors to beyong the original design's 1 GHz limit. The new generation targets perform above 4 Ghz with special versions operating at near 10 GHz. Many other target designs have been made such as the tapered line target by Jon Barth, the NiCr film target by the late Hugh Hyatt (my former partner at Experimental Physics), the Transmission line target by Hugh Calvin etc. Hans Mellberg Engineering Manager BACL 230 Commercial Street Sunnyvale CA 94085 USA 408-732-9162 x38 408-732-9164 fax - Original Message - From: Jim Ericson jde...@nas.com To: emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 4:09 PM Subject: Re: ESD Gun verification Dave: Yes. The current-sensing transducer that I built (Pelligrini Target) is per the Annex B drawings in EN 61000-4-2:1995 + A1:1998 +A2:2001. It has five paralleled 240 Ohm resistors arranged radially around the oscilloscope side to give 48 Ohms. On the ESD Gun side are twenty-five radially spaced 50 Ohm resistors to give 2 Ohms. Transconductance is 1 Amp/1 Volt into 50 Ohms. The present Standard requires a minimum 1 GHz bandwidth oscilloscope. I use a Pasternak Model PE7002-30 (DC to 2 GHz) 1 Watt Attenuator between the Pelligrini Target and the scope (voltage ratio of 32). The oscilloscope is a Tektronix 7104 with 7B10 time base, and a 7A26 dual-trace amplifier. I'll email a couple of photos to you (offline), and copy Mr. Pommerenke and Mr. Kinney. Regards, Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com To: 'Jim Ericson' jde...@nas.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:07 AM Subject: RE: ESD Gun verification Jim, I simulated this. I am assuming the circuit is a 2 ohm resistor to GND. If so, the series inductance must be 0.1 nH for the 2 ohm resistor. Does this sound right? I can do this with 25 paralleled 49.9 ohm resistors arranged radially around the input (discharge) point. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology -Original Message- From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 PM To: emcpost Subject: ESD Gun verification John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do verification in between the expensive annual calibrations. I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a calibration (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap
ESD gun verification
John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do verification in between the expensive annual calibrations. I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a calibration (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the shape of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for verification. Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens to change, you'll at least know what to do next. Give me a call if you'd like a photo. Good luck! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA. 888-226-3837 j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: John Harrington jharring...@f2labs.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD gun verification
I read in !emc-pstc that Jim Ericson jde...@nas.com wrote (in 004001c31052$499e9c40$83663fce@pavilion) about 'ESD gun verification' on Thu, 1 May 2003: Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the shape of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. I strongly endorse that. It's not a 'ground strap', it's an open-wire transmission line in most cases. There is one product that has a more technically-defensible arrangement. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD gun verification
I read in !emc-pstc that John Harrington jharring...@f2labs.com wrote (in 5777c7d14a69d411be4200a0cc746898493...@exchange.f2labs.com) about 'ESD gun verification' on Thu, 1 May 2003: Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. It's a major bugbear with that standard (and any ESD standard, I think). Any QD method will only give you very dirty answers. You might just as well not bother. No-one, AFAIK, really knows how the discharge current gets back to the gun. Even for an 'electrostatic' discharge, there must be a closed current path. Now think about those nanosecond pulses travelling along a metre or more of return cable. Inductance? What's that? (;-) Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... Don't. The amount of black magic you need even to make the official method work is immense, and you certainly can't qualify the current- sensing system without a lot of VERY costly test equipment. I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). I'm not sure that you can even do that at a sensible cost, but I understand that there are a few specialist companies who will verify your gun for you. I don't have any names or URLs, though. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
ESD Gun targets
Jim, the Pelligrini Target spec in EN61000-4-2 is quite a challenge to meet. The 1 dB insertion loss delta from DC to 4 GHz to be exact. The simulation of my proposed PCB design shows that it can meet the spec and I have the equipment to verify this. I will build a few targets. Perhaps a few of you would like a target to use and to provide feedback. Who wants a target? Step right up and get your red hot Pelligrini targets! Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 5:09 PM To: emcpost Cc: drcuthbert Subject: Re: ESD Gun verification Dave: Yes. The current-sensing transducer that I built (Pelligrini Target) is per the Annex B drawings in EN 61000-4-2:1995 + A1:1998 +A2:2001. It has five paralleled 240 Ohm resistors arranged radially around the oscilloscope side to give 48 Ohms. On the ESD Gun side are twenty-five radially spaced 50 Ohm resistors to give 2 Ohms. Transconductance is 1 Amp/1 Volt into 50 Ohms. The present Standard requires a minimum 1 GHz bandwidth oscilloscope. I use a Pasternak Model PE7002-30 (DC to 2 GHz) 1 Watt Attenuator between the Pelligrini Target and the scope (voltage ratio of 32). The oscilloscope is a Tektronix 7104 with 7B10 time base, and a 7A26 dual-trace amplifier. I'll email a couple of photos to you (offline), and copy Mr. Pommerenke and Mr. Kinney. Regards, Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com To: 'Jim Ericson' jde...@nas.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:07 AM Subject: RE: ESD Gun verification Jim, I simulated this. I am assuming the circuit is a 2 ohm resistor to GND. If so, the series inductance must be 0.1 nH for the 2 ohm resistor. Does this sound right? I can do this with 25 paralleled 49.9 ohm resistors arranged radially around the input (discharge) point. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology -Original Message- From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 PM To: emcpost Subject: ESD Gun verification John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do verification in between the expensive annual calibrations. I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a calibration (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the shape of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for verification. Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens to change, you'll at least know what to do next. Give me a call if you'd like a photo. Good luck! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA. 888-226-3837 j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: John Harrington jharring...@f2labs.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although
ESD Gun verification
John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do verification in between the expensive annual calibrations. I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a calibration (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the shape of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for verification. Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens to change, you'll at least know what to do next. Give me a call if you'd like a photo. Good luck! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA. 888-226-3837 j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: John Harrington jharring...@f2labs.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD Gun verification
Dave: Yes. The current-sensing transducer that I built (Pelligrini Target) is per the Annex B drawings in EN 61000-4-2:1995 + A1:1998 +A2:2001. It has five paralleled 240 Ohm resistors arranged radially around the oscilloscope side to give 48 Ohms. On the ESD Gun side are twenty-five radially spaced 50 Ohm resistors to give 2 Ohms. Transconductance is 1 Amp/1 Volt into 50 Ohms. The present Standard requires a minimum 1 GHz bandwidth oscilloscope. I use a Pasternak Model PE7002-30 (DC to 2 GHz) 1 Watt Attenuator between the Pelligrini Target and the scope (voltage ratio of 32). The oscilloscope is a Tektronix 7104 with 7B10 time base, and a 7A26 dual-trace amplifier. I'll email a couple of photos to you (offline), and copy Mr. Pommerenke and Mr. Kinney. Regards, Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com To: 'Jim Ericson' jde...@nas.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:07 AM Subject: RE: ESD Gun verification Jim, I simulated this. I am assuming the circuit is a 2 ohm resistor to GND. If so, the series inductance must be 0.1 nH for the 2 ohm resistor. Does this sound right? I can do this with 25 paralleled 49.9 ohm resistors arranged radially around the input (discharge) point. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology -Original Message- From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 PM To: emcpost Subject: ESD Gun verification John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do verification in between the expensive annual calibrations. I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a calibration (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the shape of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for verification. Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens to change, you'll at least know what to do next. Give me a call if you'd like a photo. Good luck! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA. 888-226-3837 j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: John Harrington jharring...@f2labs.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p
RE: ESD gun verification
Some time back there was a fellow in Belgium offering a rather clever ESD Verification device in the $4800 range. It tracked the rise time and current against the 61000-4-2 Spec. Less than 25% of the cost of a 6 Ghz bandwidth scope. I seem to remember his name was Hendrix from Heavox Company or something like that. (Perhaps other PST members can remember his name - I lost all my archived email when I was forced to upgrade my PC to Win-disaster 2000 - sorry) We looked into buying one but rejected it in the end due to the annual calibration costs being almost equal to the original cost and 4-6 weeks turnaround time.Still, it seemed a clever approach to the problem. It may be worth your time to investigate this approach as a lower cost alternate to a wideband scope. Regards, Michael Taylor Colorado -Original Message- From: John Harrington [ mailto:jharring...@f2labs.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:46 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD gun verification
Because you're dealing with a relatively high frequency event, you really do need a good target and measurement system to verify that the waveform is in compliance That said, there are a number of ways to verify that the gun is working and is probably okay without going to any extremes. One way that is used by some is to make a simple resitive target (non-high frequency) that will allow you to look at the current waveform and get something that is repeateable. After the gun is calibrated and you are confident that the waveform is really correct - get waveforms --, you can then record the waveform you get with your homemade target. By comparing the waveform from the homemade target to what you got after calibration, you should be able to tell if there is a change in the gun -- it isn't likely there will be minor waveform variations that will cause the gun to go out of calibration -- more likely you'll see peaks that are not correct, no current, or peaks that are no longer controlled by adjusting the voltage level. By the way, we're trying to get a statement into the next revision of 61000-4-2 to make it clear that it is not the users responsibility to calibrate the waveform before each test -- any simple method that allows you to determine that the gun is still working properly AND a valid calibration sticker, will be good enough for VERIFICATION! Good luck. (Of course, you can always send it in for calibration -- you should do so yearly anyway.) Hope this helps, Best Regards, Michael Hopkins Thermo Electron michael.hopk...@thermo.com From: John Harrington [mailto:jharring...@f2labs.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:46 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD gun verification
Dear John, It depends on what you want. But at first we need to discuss one issue of definition of verificaiton, calibration or all kinds of similar words. I define a calibration as a traceble measurement and a verification as a measurement that helps to establish confidence that some instrument is still OK. A verification by this definition is not traceble. In EMC, using a comb-generator daily to check you emissions equipment (antenna + amp + cable + SA) is a verification. 1) If you are going to do a formal calibration, you have to follow the standard and have to have a bandwidth of at least 1 GHz. 2) If you are just doing a verification, you can build your own current target, even if it only works so and so. Then you take some oscilloscope, e.g., 500 MHz bandwidth and do a reference measurement after the ESD generator has been calibrated (see above for definition). From that day on, you dischare the generator into your self-made structure and compare to the reference. Now you need to derive some useful criteria to handle diviations. But in general, your aim is just to establish more confidence in the ESD generator's calibration status. So your measurement do not need to capture all parameters in good fidelity. Of course, you have to do your traceble calibration, e.g., every year or so. The present ESD standard is not very clear in the use of verification and calibration. But the definitions above are the ones that TC77b-WG-9 intended. The new version of the standard, that is in a CDV stage, clarifies this better. David Pommerenke University Missouri Rolla From: John Harrington [mailto:jharring...@f2labs.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 1:46 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD gun verification
I read in !emc-pstc that drcuthb...@micron.com wrote (in CFEFA50C9BCAD2 1197470001fa7eba6b14121...@ntexchange05.micron.com) about 'ESD gun verification' on Thu, 1 May 2003: to verify the waveform and charge you will need a Tektronix CT-1 current transformer, a 500 MHz digital oscilloscope, and a 500 ohm high voltage resistor. A 1/4 watt or larger carbon comp will work. Be aware that it has a voltage coefficient. This will allow you to view the rise time, the decay time, and calculate the total charge in coulombs (amps X seconds). I have been working on this subject myself for the past couple of days. I have been view actual human discharges, an ESD gun, and have built my own miniature ESD generator. The generator and SPICE model are amazingly close when using component models that incorporate the parasitics. If that is true, I wonder why the people who investigated the previous version of the calibrator found a need for a 6 GHz scope among other exotica. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD gun verification
John, to verify the waveform and charge you will need a Tektronix CT-1 current transformer, a 500 MHz digital oscilloscope, and a 500 ohm high voltage resistor. A 1/4 watt or larger carbon comp will work. Be aware that it has a voltage coefficient. This will allow you to view the rise time, the decay time, and calculate the total charge in coulombs (amps X seconds). I have been working on this subject myself for the past couple of days. I have been view actual human discharges, an ESD gun, and have built my own miniature ESD generator. The generator and SPICE model are amazingly close when using component models that incorporate the parasitics. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: John Harrington [mailto:jharring...@f2labs.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:46 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: ESD gun verification Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
ESD gun verification
Hello All Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the performance of an ESD gun. Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build it for me... I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could find said shelf). All help appreciated John Harrington EMC Technical Manager F-Squared Laboratories This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD Gun
I'm currently renting a Schaffner NSG435 ESD Gun and like the features. Would anyone be able to provide me with some leads where I might be able to get a deal (used is OK) on a comparable piece of equipment to purchase? I find the continuous feature to be a necessity as well as the ability to set the pulse frequency to 0.5 Hz (2 pps) or less. Any leads would be appreciated. Any solicitation is encouraged to be done off line. You know, with Schaffner putting their new ESD gun on the market this summer, there may be some folks wanting to trade up and have their old ESD gun available. Try calling John Parnell at Schaffner, he's on 1 800 367 5566 Ext 225 Cheers Derek N. Walton Owner, L. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility 12790 Route 76, Poplar Grove, IL 61065 www.lfresearch.com
RE: ESD Gun
I just purchased a ESD Gun called Minizap from Keytek Instruments in Lowell, MA. Phone number is 800 7Keytek. Contact is Doug Default. They sell new and sometimes you can get a refurbished with the full warranty and calibration. Bryan Cole Director of Engineering Product Safety Officer Emerson Network Power - Control Concepts Binghamton, New York 13902 Phone: 607.724.1352 extension 238 Fax: 607.724.0153 E-mail: bryan.c...@control-concepts.com www.Liebert.com www.Control-Concepts.com www.Edcosurge.com -Original Message- From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:29 PM To: 'EMC PSTC' Subject: ESD Gun I'm currently renting a Schaffner NSG435 ESD Gun and like the features. Would anyone be able to provide me with some leads where I might be able to get a deal (used is OK) on a comparable piece of equipment to purchase? I find the continuous feature to be a necessity as well as the ability to set the pulse frequency to 0.5 Hz (2 pps) or less. Any leads would be appreciated. Any solicitation is encouraged to be done off line. Thx, Joe *** Joe Finlayson Manager, Compliance Engineering Telica, Inc. 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100 Marlboro, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 804-8212 Fax: (508) 480-0922 Email: jfinlay...@telica.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
ESD Gun
I'm currently renting a Schaffner NSG435 ESD Gun and like the features. Would anyone be able to provide me with some leads where I might be able to get a deal (used is OK) on a comparable piece of equipment to purchase? I find the continuous feature to be a necessity as well as the ability to set the pulse frequency to 0.5 Hz (2 pps) or less. Any leads would be appreciated. Any solicitation is encouraged to be done off line. Thx, Joe *** Joe Finlayson Manager, Compliance Engineering Telica, Inc. 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100 Marlboro, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 804-8212 Fax: (508) 480-0922 Email: jfinlay...@telica.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: [Fwd: ESD Gun recommendations?]
We too have the same Keytek ESD gun. I can confirm what Dick says, it is a good piece of kit and we have never had any problems with it. Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com * http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: Dick Grobner [SMTP:dick.grob...@medgraph.com] Sent: 22 May 2001 19:16 To: 'daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com' Cc: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: RE: [Fwd: ESD Gun recommendations?] Dan - we have a Keytek Model MZ-15/EC Mini-zap ESD simulator with contact discharge tip Model MZTPC-2. We use it for pre-compliance testing per EN61000-4-2. We have been very pleased with its performance. We have Keytek perform the calibration and maintenance of the simulator and it never has been in need of repair. You should be able to locate a local rep for a demo and I would think they would provide a loaner for a few days. Good Luck on your search! -Original Message- From: David Heald [mailto:davehe...@mediaone.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:37 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com Subject: [Fwd: ESD Gun recommendations?] Forwarded for Daniel Biggs daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com. Please include Daniel in any replies. -Dave Heald Original Message Subject: ESD Gun recommendations? Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:04:23 -0400 From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Greetings, Looking to replace our old ESD guns and would appreciate any recommendations on who makes a good product and what features are most important. Also, when it comes to EMC test equipment which companies offer better services and technical support. Thanks, DB ___ GE Fanuc Automation Daniel Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Design Services ph: 804-978-6946 fax: 804-978-5588 e-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, ** Please visit us at www.tagmclarenaudio.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclarenaudio.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe
RE: [Fwd: ESD Gun recommendations?]
Dan - we have a Keytek Model MZ-15/EC Mini-zap ESD simulator with contact discharge tip Model MZTPC-2. We use it for pre-compliance testing per EN61000-4-2. We have been very pleased with its performance. We have Keytek perform the calibration and maintenance of the simulator and it never has been in need of repair. You should be able to locate a local rep for a demo and I would think they would provide a loaner for a few days. Good Luck on your search! -Original Message- From: David Heald [mailto:davehe...@mediaone.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:37 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com Subject: [Fwd: ESD Gun recommendations?] Forwarded for Daniel Biggs daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com. Please include Daniel in any replies. -Dave Heald Original Message Subject: ESD Gun recommendations? List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:04:23 -0400 From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Greetings, Looking to replace our old ESD guns and would appreciate any recommendations on who makes a good product and what features are most important. Also, when it comes to EMC test equipment which companies offer better services and technical support. Thanks, DB ___ GE Fanuc Automation Daniel Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Design Services ph: 804-978-6946 fax: 804-978-5588 e-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
[Fwd: ESD Gun recommendations?]
Forwarded for Daniel Biggs daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com. Please include Daniel in any replies. -Dave Heald Original Message Subject: ESD Gun recommendations? List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:04:23 -0400 From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Greetings, Looking to replace our old ESD guns and would appreciate any recommendations on who makes a good product and what features are most important. Also, when it comes to EMC test equipment which companies offer better services and technical support. Thanks, DB ___ GE Fanuc Automation Daniel Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Design Services ph: 804-978-6946 fax: 804-978-5588 e-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
To everyone out there in EMC land, We at Schaffner EMC acknowledge that several mistakes were made in handling the calibration inquiry from Mr. Flinders and we find it quite regrettable since we are all working hard to provide the best customer service possible. We value every customer's business and want to be sure that every customer get's the service they need in a timely way. We perform hundreds of calibrations each year and understand that it is an important service to our customers. Additionally, it is an important part of our own business. Steps are being taken to streamline phone inquiries and improve our responsiveness. We sincerely hope that the steps we are taking will prevent this type of problem happening again. Please direct all calibration inquiries for North America to our Springfield, NJ office: (800) 367-5566, they'll be happy to help you. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me directly. I apologize in advance if any of you think that this message is too commerical for the discussion group, that's not my intention. I thought it valuable for you all to know that we are listening and take these issues seriously. Greg Senko Sales Manager - Pulsed EMI Schaffner EMC (800) 367-5566 (978) 764-7358 mobile (603) 642 7975 fax gse...@schaffner.com -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:randall.flind...@emulex.com] On Behalf Of Flinders, Randall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:36 PM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject:Schaffner ESD gun Calibration Greetings EMC Professionals - I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner NSG-435 ESD Gun. My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated before my next QA audit. Any leads or information would be appreciated! Thanks! Sincerely, Randall T. Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corporation (714) 513-8012 voice (714) 513-8265 fax randall.flind...@ieee.org __ __ __\ /__ __/ \__ E M U L E X aka.. Chairman Orange County Chapter IEEE EMC Society r.flind...@ieee.org - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
In my previous e-mail I had indicated that I had trouble getting a quote from Schaffner for calibrating my ESD gun. Well, Schaffner has contacted me, and was very responsive in taking care of my needs. They are expediting the calibration of my equipment at no extra charge, and they appear to be taking specific steps to ensure that customer inquiries will not fall through the cracks again. I was very satisfied with their staff's professionalism and courtesy. Kudos to the folks at Schaffner for their efforts to maintain customer satisfaction. We all know that things can't go perfectly all the time, but it was the willingness to respond to issues when they arise and make sure that the customer's needs get met that impressed me. So, it ended up that I did not need to find another vendor. But, I would like to thank everyone who posted information on alternate vendors and I will be keeping the information on file for future use. Sincerely, Randall T. Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corporation (714) 513-8012 voice (714) 513-8265 fax randall.flind...@ieee.org __ __ __\ /__ __/ \__ E M U L E X aka.. Chairman Orange County Chapter IEEE EMC Society r.flind...@ieee.org -- From: Flinders, Randall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 2:36 PM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject:Schaffner ESD gun Calibration Greetings EMC Professionals - I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner NSG-435 ESD Gun. My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated before my next QA audit. Any leads or information would be appreciated! Thanks! Sincerely, Randall T. Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corporation (714) 513-8012 voice (714) 513-8265 fax randall.flind...@ieee.org __ __ __\ /__ __/ \__ E M U L E X aka.. Chairman Orange County Chapter IEEE EMC Society r.flind...@ieee.org application/ms-tnef
Re: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
There is a new company in Rockford, IL. that is setting up to calibrate EMC test equipment. They are called Forrest City Instrument Calibration. If you would like info e-mail me, I'll try to get a hold of an electronic version of their brochure... Best regards, Derek Walton. OwnerL. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility UMBDENSTOCK, DON wrote: Hello Randall, We have the same model. We have ours calibrated at Liberty Labs (www.liberty-labs.com). They are responsive and price competitive. Hope this helps. Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic -- From: randall.flind...@emulex.com[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com] on behalf of Flinders, Randall[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Reply To: Flinders, Randall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:36 PM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration Greetings EMC Professionals - I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner NSG-435 ESD Gun. My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated before my next QA audit. Any leads or information would be appreciated! Thanks! Sincerely, Randall T. Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corporation (714) 513-8012 voice (714) 513-8265 fax randall.flind...@ieee.org __ __ __\ /__ __/ \__ E M U L E X aka.. Chairman Orange County Chapter IEEE EMC Society r.flind...@ieee.org - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
Here are the vendors that you can try out. Simco 10200 Pioneer Blvd. Santa Fe Spring, CA 90670 800-235-6990 Contact: Jim Merriam or Schaffner 12 Hughes Suite D-106 Irvine, CA 91718 714 (or 949) - 457-9400 Ngoc Le Sr Quality Engineer Newport Corp. -Original Message- From: randall.flind...@emulex.com [mailto:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 2:36 PM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration Greetings EMC Professionals - I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner NSG-435 ESD Gun. My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated before my next QA audit. Any leads or information would be appreciated! Thanks! Sincerely, Randall T. Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corporation (714) 513-8012 voice (714) 513-8265 fax randall.flind...@ieee.org __ __ __\ /__ __/ \__ E M U L E X aka.. Chairman Orange County Chapter IEEE EMC Society r.flind...@ieee.org - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
Hello Randall, We have the same model. We have ours calibrated at Liberty Labs (www.liberty-labs.com). They are responsive and price competitive. Hope this helps. Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic -- From: randall.flind...@emulex.com[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com] on behalf of Flinders, Randall[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com] Reply To: Flinders, Randall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:36 PM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration Greetings EMC Professionals - I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner NSG-435 ESD Gun. My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated before my next QA audit. Any leads or information would be appreciated! Thanks! Sincerely, Randall T. Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corporation (714) 513-8012 voice (714) 513-8265 fax randall.flind...@ieee.org __ __ __\ /__ __/ \__ E M U L E X aka.. Chairman Orange County Chapter IEEE EMC Society r.flind...@ieee.org - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
Greetings EMC Professionals - I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner NSG-435 ESD Gun. My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated before my next QA audit. Any leads or information would be appreciated! Thanks! Sincerely, Randall T. Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corporation (714) 513-8012 voice (714) 513-8265 fax randall.flind...@ieee.org __ __ __\ /__ __/ \__ E M U L E X aka.. Chairman Orange County Chapter IEEE EMC Society r.flind...@ieee.orgapplication/ms-tnef
Disposing of Keytek ESD Gun
For those colleagues who are interested in acquiring a Keytek Series 2000 ESD Test System cheap, I'm disposing of one. If interested see the following link http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=129727458 Since this is an entire ESD test system (not just air and contact), those guys interested in trying to correlate coins in a plastic bag with ESD phenomena will have a blast with this thing. Best Regards, Jim Jim Wiese Compliance Engineer - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
ESD Gun Calibration
I have an Andy Hish Model 255 ESD Generator that needs calibration. Does anyone have the name number of a commercial cal lab that does this type of calibration? Thanks Bob Blank
Hish ESD Gun: Need info
One of my clients has an Andy Hish (Van Nuys, CA) Model 255 ESD gun. Does any one know if they are still in business? Any one have Operator's manual or waveform info? Any one know where I can get it calibrated, including waveform measurent? Any information greatly appreciated.
