Re: Questions on Plug Adapters
I have seen three adapter situations which are somewhat reasonable. The first is for a product with an IEC 320 C8 inlet. The coiled power cord was IEC 320 C7 to C8, with molded adapters from C7 to North American, Europlug and Australian pins. Cord and adapters were a UL listed kit, don't remember manufacturer. This was my favorite offering. Just the thing for a traveling laptop. I felt this was a good solution suitable for everyday use. The second is for a product with an IEC 320 C14 inlet. The power cord was IEC 320 C13 to C14, with molded right angle adapters for North Amercan, Shuko, Australian, and British configurations. The cord was UL/CSA listed, the North American adapter was CSA certified from Electricord. All connectors were good quality, just as good as the normal product connectors, and other than having three connections to loosen rather than two as with the normal cord set, I could see no major issue. The third, a wall mount switching power supply with an IEC 320 C14 inlet and a right angle adapter C13 to US, Shuko, Australian and British configurations. The supply was UL listed from Phihong, I believe, and the North American Adapter was CSA certified from Wellshin. This was a less than ideal but not bad situation. The complications come when the receptacle is oriented other than to have the supply hanging under the adapter. There would probably be some tendency for wiggling of the dc cord to cause the supply to drop off the adapter. However, it eliminates the power cord (only low voltage dc supply cord). I guess that some places prohibit adapters, but I can't name which ones. These solutions are more expensive than simple cord sets, but may be cheaper when considering stocking, ordering and distribution problems. The C7/C8 solution might be considered a desirable product feature. I was aware of the dearth of approval marks on the European and Australian adapters. They may be unattainable but would be necessary for implementation by most manufacturers. I have never used any of these on my products, but might consider it if someone solves the approval issues. Bob CRAIG HENSLEY wrote: My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could be provided along with a UK style plug adapter. I am not comfortable with this at all and am hoping that some of you out there have had some experience with these types of plug adapters. My questions/concerns are: * How can the connection to the AC mains be ensured when using a plug adapter? * One company claims they have a UL recognized plug adapter. However, I can't find anything more with regards to safety certifications. I don't think TUV will even certify this type of adapter. What about the other agencies? * Does anyone have any additional recommendations to help accommodate the various worldwide plug styles? I got to believe others have gone through this same dilemma. * How acceptable is it to provide a product without a cord and just have the user procure the cord set applicable for their particular country? * Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that include plug adapters with their products? * Which is worse? Providing the direct plug-in power supply with plug adapters, or providing the desk-top power supply and detachable cord set with plug adapters. Any and all information is appreciated as I am once again in the unenviable position of potentially squashing another brilliant marketing idea. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, but as soon as someone starts changing the product interfaces with the AC-mains I get a little nervous. Thanks, Craig Hensley Iomega Corp. Roy, UT. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without
RE: Questions on Plug Adapters
Dear Richard, Items in Section General are indeed very general. The actual Listing Report is inportant. For all the hundreds of ITE products that ITL has Listed, in the product description, under Construction Details, we describe all the various types of Listed cords and specify that provision of a cord is optional. We also specify for units shipped outside North America, a suitable cord set may be shipped according to country of destination. Our clients have the freedom to choose the best of all worlds and I hope all of you are doing the same. Best Regards and Happy Holidays! Interesting. I checked one of our ITE UL reports from 1997 and the general section requires shipping either a UL Listed power cord or an acceptable cord when shipping outside the US. What do others have to say about this? -- From: pe...@itl.co.il [SMTP:pe...@itl.co.il] Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 4:28 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org; WOODS, RICHARD Subject: RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Richard, It has been a few years now that for ITE, NRTLs do not require a detachable type power supply cord to be shipped with the unit. At some point, they required that for units not provided with detachable cords, a non-permanent marking be provided by the power Inlet See Installation Instructions for Proper Selection of Power Cord or an equivalent marking together with the relevant instructions on the proper power cords to be selected in the field. However for some time now, this requirement has been dropped and provision of a Listed and/or Approved cord set is optional. Regards, From: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Date sent: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:12:34 -0500 Send reply to: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com If you have UL Listing, then you must ship a power cord with each unit. The cord shipped must be acceptable for the target country - i.e., have the appropriate safety approval. -- From: CRAIG HENSLEY [SMTP:hens...@iomega.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:20 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Questions on Plug Adapters My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could be provided along with a UK style plug adapter. I am not comfortable with this at all and am hoping that some of you out there have had some experience with these types of plug adapters. My questions/concerns are: * How can the connection to the AC mains be ensured when using a plug adapter? * One company claims they have a UL recognized plug adapter. However, I can't find anything more with regards to safety certifications. I don't think TUV will even certify this type of adapter. What about the other agencies? * Does anyone have any additional recommendations to help accommodate the various worldwide plug styles? I got to believe others have gone through this same dilemma
RE: Questions on Plug Adapters
Rich, This is from a the recently received appendix pages for UL 1950. 1.7 Power Supply Cords - B. Detachable Power supply cord - A detachable power supply cord as described in the individual sections of the procedure may or may not be shipped with the unit. If a cord is provided, it should either: snip If a detachable power supply cord is not provided, no further action is required. This at least addresses UL. I don't have a reference for TUV. My certificates describe it but that's because we do provide one. Don't know what happens if I didn't ship one. Gary -Original Message- From: WOODS, RICHARD [SMTP:wo...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:56 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Interesting. I checked one of our ITE UL reports from 1997 and the general section requires shipping either a UL Listed power cord or an acceptable cord when shipping outside the US. What do others have to say about this? -- From: pe...@itl.co.il [SMTP:pe...@itl.co.il] Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 4:28 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org; WOODS, RICHARD Subject: RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Richard, It has been a few years now that for ITE, NRTLs do not require a detachable type power supply cord to be shipped with the unit. At some point, they required that for units not provided with detachable cords, a non-permanent marking be provided by the power Inlet See Installation Instructions for Proper Selection of Power Cord or an equivalent marking together with the relevant instructions on the proper power cords to be selected in the field. However for some time now, this requirement has been dropped and provision of a Listed and/or Approved cord set is optional. Regards, From: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Date sent: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:12:34 -0500 Send reply to: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com If you have UL Listing, then you must ship a power cord with each unit. The cord shipped must be acceptable for the target country - i.e., have the appropriate safety approval. -- From: CRAIG HENSLEY [SMTP:hens...@iomega.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:20 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Questions on Plug Adapters My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could
RE: Questions on Plug Adapters
Craig, - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Questions on Plug Adapters -Reply
Many thanks to those of you who responded to my question concerning the use of plug adapters. All information received was pertinent and extremely useful. The knowledge and experiences shared will help me in further establishing our company's position on this issue. It also reinforces my original believe that we should be providing the right (certified) cord-set with each unit shipped and not an adapter kludge. Since we are a worldwide company we have to learn to better deal with the implications of supporting the many different plug styles. Happy Holidays to All, Craig Hensley Iomega Corp. Roy, UT CRAIG HENSLEY hens...@iomega.com 12/02/98 01:19pm My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could be provided along with a UK style plug adapter. I am not comfortable with this at all and am hoping that some of you out there have had some experience with these types of plug adapters. My questions/concerns are: * How can the connection to the AC mains be ensured when using a plug adapter? * One company claims they have a UL recognized plug adapter. However, I can't find anything more with regards to safety certifications. I don't think TUV will even certify this type of adapter. What about the other agencies? * Does anyone have any additional recommendations to help accommodate the various worldwide plug styles? I got to believe others have gone through this same dilemma. * How acceptable is it to provide a product without a cord and just have the user procure the cord set applicable for their particular country? * Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that include plug adapters with their products? * Which is worse? Providing the direct plug-in power supply with plug adapters, or providing the desk-top power supply and detachable cord set with plug adapters. Any and all information is appreciated as I am once again in the unenviable position of potentially squashing another brilliant marketing idea. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, but as soon as someone starts changing the product interfaces with the AC-mains I get a little nervous. Thanks, Craig Hensley Iomega Corp. Roy, UT. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Questions on Plug Adapters
Interesting. I checked one of our ITE UL reports from 1997 and the general section requires shipping either a UL Listed power cord or an acceptable cord when shipping outside the US. What do others have to say about this? -- From: pe...@itl.co.il [SMTP:pe...@itl.co.il] Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 4:28 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org; WOODS, RICHARD Subject: RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Richard, It has been a few years now that for ITE, NRTLs do not require a detachable type power supply cord to be shipped with the unit. At some point, they required that for units not provided with detachable cords, a non-permanent marking be provided by the power Inlet See Installation Instructions for Proper Selection of Power Cord or an equivalent marking together with the relevant instructions on the proper power cords to be selected in the field. However for some time now, this requirement has been dropped and provision of a Listed and/or Approved cord set is optional. Regards, From: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Date sent: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:12:34 -0500 Send reply to: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com If you have UL Listing, then you must ship a power cord with each unit. The cord shipped must be acceptable for the target country - i.e., have the appropriate safety approval. -- From: CRAIG HENSLEY [SMTP:hens...@iomega.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:20 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Questions on Plug Adapters My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could be provided along with a UK style plug adapter. I am not comfortable with this at all and am hoping that some of you out there have had some experience with these types of plug adapters. My questions/concerns are: * How can the connection to the AC mains be ensured when using a plug adapter? * One company claims they have a UL recognized plug adapter. However, I can't find anything more with regards to safety certifications. I don't think TUV will even certify this type of adapter. What about the other agencies? * Does anyone have any additional recommendations to help accommodate the various worldwide plug styles? I got to believe others have gone through this same dilemma. * How acceptable is it to provide a product without a cord and just have the user procure the cord set applicable for their particular country? * Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that include plug adapters with their products? * Which is worse? Providing the direct plug-in power supply with plug adapters, or providing the desk-top power supply and detachable cord set with plug adapters
Re: Questions on Plug Adapters
Craig, this is a common problem. My experience is with North American Manufacturers selling to Europe. In order to comply with the Low Voltage Directive (LVD), and Self-Declare compliance with the CE Mark, one applies an EN standard such as EN1010, for Test, Measurement and Control Equipment, or EN60950, for Information Technology Equipment, and implicit to each of these standards are blanket statements, such as (paraphrasing only...) components must be suitable for the intended jurisdiction, and that appropriate ratings shall be used So, this means that when a supply cord is used, inspite of the common ground of the CE Mark and LVD, the country-by-country national marks are STILL applicable for these kinds of items!! Not to mention the language concerns, for explaining these kinds of details in manuals etc. To avoid this problem I advise the majority of my clients with 'plug gable' equipment, using a detachable cord, to simply omit the cord and advise that they are to be provided at the time of installation. Non detachable corded equipment, unfortunately, should be appropriately rated and certified for the country of destination. -- Alternately, if so provided, the stripped end of the power cord can be deemed to be your 'field wiring terminals', and you can state that it is to be installed by a licensed electrician or journeyman - your customer can then do whatever they want, and yet you have complied with the LVD!! I hope this helps!! If anyone reading this has found other work-arounds on this issue, I invite your comments!!! Regards, Rob Stirling, P.Eng. Protocol For COMPLETE safety, EMC, and regulatory Compliance Engineering solutions call Protocol!! ph 604 218 1762 fax 604 572 9408 Vancouver B.C. Crabb, John wrote: My company (NCR) ships automated teller machines worldwide. Our policy on plugs is simple: - If the product is 120V, we supply a UL/CSA cordset with a NEMA plug, and if the product is 220/230/240V, we supply a HAR cordset, WITHOUT A PLUG, together with a one page chart showing the plugs for various countries. For many years, we used to ship ALL products with the American cordsets, without any complaints (except for some mutterings from Germany), but we changed over to the HAR cordset for 220/230/240V units when an external safety consultant insisted this was necessary for Europe. I won't comment on this, other than I didn't think there was anything unsafe about the American cord, and in any case, you could always always argue that the cord was not part of the equipment. John Crabb, Product Safety Engineer, NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd, Dundee (City of Discovery), Scotland. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Questions on Plug Adapters
Richard, It has been a few years now that for ITE, NRTLs do not require a detachable type power supply cord to be shipped with the unit. At some point, they required that for units not provided with detachable cords, a non-permanent marking be provided by the power Inlet See Installation Instructions for Proper Selection of Power Cord or an equivalent marking together with the relevant instructions on the proper power cords to be selected in the field. However for some time now, this requirement has been dropped and provision of a Listed and/or Approved cord set is optional. Regards, From: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: Questions on Plug Adapters Date sent: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:12:34 -0500 Send reply to: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com If you have UL Listing, then you must ship a power cord with each unit. The cord shipped must be acceptable for the target country - i.e., have the appropriate safety approval. -- From: CRAIG HENSLEY [SMTP:hens...@iomega.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:20 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Questions on Plug Adapters My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could be provided along with a UK style plug adapter. I am not comfortable with this at all and am hoping that some of you out there have had some experience with these types of plug adapters. My questions/concerns are: * How can the connection to the AC mains be ensured when using a plug adapter? * One company claims they have a UL recognized plug adapter. However, I can't find anything more with regards to safety certifications. I don't think TUV will even certify this type of adapter. What about the other agencies? * Does anyone have any additional recommendations to help accommodate the various worldwide plug styles? I got to believe others have gone through this same dilemma. * How acceptable is it to provide a product without a cord and just have the user procure the cord set applicable for their particular country? * Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that include plug adapters with their products? * Which is worse? Providing the direct plug-in power supply with plug adapters, or providing the desk-top power supply and detachable cord set with plug adapters. Any and all information is appreciated as I am once again in the unenviable position of potentially squashing another brilliant marketing idea. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, but as soon as someone starts changing the product interfaces with the AC-mains I get a little nervous. Thanks, Craig Hensley Iomega Corp. Roy, UT. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). PETER S
Re: Questions on Plug Adapters
Dear Craig, SEE BELOW FOR MY RECOMMENDATION. LET ME KNOW WHAT YOUR COMPANY THINKS! My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could be provided along with a UK style plug adapter. Assuming you have the standard dc jack, you can ship units with or without power supplies. You can mark units with the voltage and amperage by the connector together with the exclamation point within an equilateral triangle symbol (which refers the installer to the Installation Instructions). The installation instructions should have suitable instructions such as the following: CAUTION: To reduce the risk of electric shock, fire and energy hazards, read the following important safety instructions. North America: Use only the power supply provided with the unit, or if not supplied, use only with a Listed/Certified (Class 2) power supply rated --- Vdc (ac), min --- mA (or A). Note: Class 2 should be included if your units do not have a suitable fire enclosure or were not evaluated to the fire enclosure requirements in UL1950/CSA C22.2 950 Rest of World: Use the power supply provided with the unit, or if not provided, use suitably Approved ITE power supply rated --- V dc (ac), min --- mA (A). If you do as above, for most countries you can provide either the North American or European (euro-plug) plug-in power supplies. Even better, I have seen a plug-in ITE power supply (manufactured by ITE Power Supply) which has the North American blades and an adaptor which has the European blades. A tag with instructions is provided on the power supply. The power supply carried the UL, CSA and TUV Approvals. For those countries with funny blades (Schucko, British, Israel, etc.) either let your distributor find a suitable power supply according to the instructions or provide one at extra cost (to cover your inventory and other expenses). Best Regards and Happy Holidays. PETER S. MERGUERIAN MANAGING DIRECTOR PRODUCT TESTING DIVISION I.T.L. (PRODUCT TESTING) LTD. HACHAROSHET 26, P.O.B. 211 OR YEHUDA 60251, ISRAEL TEL: 972-3-5339022 FAX: 972-3-5339019 E-MAIL: pe...@itl.co.il Visit our Website: http://www.itl.co.il - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Questions on Plug Adapters
If you have UL Listing, then you must ship a power cord with each unit. The cord shipped must be acceptable for the target country - i.e., have the appropriate safety approval. -- From: CRAIG HENSLEY [SMTP:hens...@iomega.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:20 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Questions on Plug Adapters My company manufacturers external high capacity disk drive systems (computer peripherals) which are shipped worldwide. North American shipments include an ac-dc direct plug-in power supply. International shipments include an ac-dc desk-top power supply along with the appropriate detachable cord set. All the power supplies we use are UL-Listed, TUV, CSA, and SAA certified. Cordsets carry all the appropriate certifications/approvals. There have been some grumblings internally because of the many international system configurations that must be maintained due to the number of different cord-sets. Depending on where a particular drive is being sent dictates the type of cord set that is included. This introduces additional control, inventory, and warehousing problems. One suggestion that has been made is to ship one style of cord (or power supply) with several different plug adapters. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what power cord goes with what drive. For example, in South America the direct plug-in power supply could be provided along with the Euro and Australian style plug adapters. In Europe, the desk-top power supply and Euro-style cord-set could be provided along with a UK style plug adapter. I am not comfortable with this at all and am hoping that some of you out there have had some experience with these types of plug adapters. My questions/concerns are: * How can the connection to the AC mains be ensured when using a plug adapter? * One company claims they have a UL recognized plug adapter. However, I can't find anything more with regards to safety certifications. I don't think TUV will even certify this type of adapter. What about the other agencies? * Does anyone have any additional recommendations to help accommodate the various worldwide plug styles? I got to believe others have gone through this same dilemma. * How acceptable is it to provide a product without a cord and just have the user procure the cord set applicable for their particular country? * Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that include plug adapters with their products? * Which is worse? Providing the direct plug-in power supply with plug adapters, or providing the desk-top power supply and detachable cord set with plug adapters. Any and all information is appreciated as I am once again in the unenviable position of potentially squashing another brilliant marketing idea. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, but as soon as someone starts changing the product interfaces with the AC-mains I get a little nervous. Thanks, Craig Hensley Iomega Corp. Roy, UT. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Questions on Plug Adapters
Craig, We faced the same dilemma with our products. Shipping word-wide and trying to get all products to have the same certifications without question as to destination was tough. In the end, we use an IEC320 appliance inlet on all products and have in stock 10 different power cordsets. We make it a part of the order entry process to ask the customer what cordset they want. That way we do not stock 10 different product configurations but do have a second line item on the customer order for the cordset. Since our products are expensive enough and we only build to order, we get away with that. I personally do not like adapters, even if I could find one that has sufficient safety approvals. Don't know that you can find a standard that prohibits them either. I think in the end it becomes a marketing decision how to handle this, i.e. how acceptable it is to ship with what configuration. If marketing says that you must ship a cordset with each product and the cost of the product or distribution method do not lend themselves to asking the customer for a cordset preference, I think you have not much choice but to make multiple configurations. One alternative we used at one time was to have the distributors provide the cordset. They could either order them from us or from their own sources. Good luck. Scott s_doug...@ecrm.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Questions on Plug Adapters
My company (NCR) ships automated teller machines worldwide. Our policy on plugs is simple: - If the product is 120V, we supply a UL/CSA cordset with a NEMA plug, and if the product is 220/230/240V, we supply a HAR cordset, WITHOUT A PLUG, together with a one page chart showing the plugs for various countries. For many years, we used to ship ALL products with the American cordsets, without any complaints (except for some mutterings from Germany), but we changed over to the HAR cordset for 220/230/240V units when an external safety consultant insisted this was necessary for Europe. I won't comment on this, other than I didn't think there was anything unsafe about the American cord, and in any case, you could always always argue that the cord was not part of the equipment. John Crabb, Product Safety Engineer, NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd, Dundee (City of Discovery), Scotland. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Questions on Plug Adapters
Hi Craig: The short answer to your questions is: Continue as you are currently doing (i.e., provide the correct cordset for the country of destination) HP provides the correct cordset for the country of destination. (Almost all of our products are wide- range, 100-240 V, 50-60 Hz.) Yes, it is a pain to stock all the different cordsets, making sure they have all the required certifications, etc.! The long answers to your questions are: Adapters. As a general rule, adapters are not legal in most countries. However, the rule is difficult to enforce when adapters are purchased in another country. (For example, you can buy adapters in Singapore for export use only, but they cannot be used in Singapore, and you cannot find an adapter from a foreign plug to the Singapore plug.) Very few are certified for safety. A direct-plug-in with an adapter is unstable due to an increased moment arm, and due to the flexibility/ looseness inherent to most plug/socket pairs. Most countries are deathly afraid of the USA (NEMA) plug because of the accessible blades during mating and dismating. Remember, most countries are in the 230-V range, which hurts a LOT MORE than 120-V! I have the impression that adapters are for travelling folks who want to use an appliance in another country on a temporary basis. * How can the connection to the AC mains be ensured when using a plug adapter? Depends on the quality of the adapter. Most adapters are built to accomodate the worst-case of the two plugs being adapted. Some adapters seem to have been designed WITHOUT knowledge of the plug standards! (I've found adapters where the plug needs to be arranged just so to make contact.) * One company claims they have a UL recognized plug adapter. However, I can't find anything more with regards to safety certifications. I don't think TUV will even certify this type of adapter. What about the other agencies? Hmm. I wonder what standards UL would use to evaluate an adapter? I would ask for a copy of the UL report! Can you tell us the brand and model? Should be a higher quality than I currently use (for my laptop, camcorder, and wife's hair dryer.) I don't know of any certification house that certifies adapters. However, I believe I have seen direct-plug-in step-down (230 in, 120 out) units that are certified. * Does anyone have any additional recommendations to help accommodate the various worldwide plug styles? I got to believe others have gone through this same dilemma. See my opening comments. Been there, done that. * How acceptable is it to provide a product without a cord and just have the user procure the cord set applicable for their particular country? This is possible, but not very customer-friendly. Just as Batteries not included, you would say Power cord not included. * Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that include plug adapters with their products? No. * Which is worse? Providing the direct plug-in power supply with plug adapters, or providing the desk-top power supply and detachable cord set with plug adapters. Direct-plug-in with adapters is worse because of the increased moment arm. Best wishes for the holiday season, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
