Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
On Sunday 19 April 2015 02:58:14 Karlsson Wang wrote: Increase in speed should almost certainly be 48/28 faster. I think this is true for acceleration to. Then you just have to hope for the electric motor to tolerate the higher voltage and for the mechanics to tolerate higher speed/acceleration. Humm, I would have to assume that since the motor currents would not be similarly increased, that the accels, wouldn't be enhanced by anywhere near that same ratio. The motors ultimate torque shouldn't change, just the speed at which the torque falls off due to inductance? At present I do not believe the applied accels are modulated in the TP to be slower at the higher motor speeds where torque is falling off, so we need to use an accel it can handle in spite of the falloff. This costs us time at the lower speeds where there is generally plenty of torque. IMO, the accel should be applied with something that looks like a t=rc time constant mapping, but that would not be optimum for the needed decel since that would start a new t=rc curve, a fast slowing at an rpm point where the torque is not available. Experimentally I have found I can move the existing setup at 22 ipm in the range where table weights are well balanced if I use really slow accels like 2 seconds or more to top speed. But for anything like decent accel settings, I'll stall at 10 ipm or less so I generally use sub 10 ipm moves now. One of the reasons for kicking the motor voltage up closer to the limits of the drivers, 50 volts in the case of the 2M542 driver. Nicklas Karlsson Thanks Nicklas. At least I have a starting point now for how much faster I can go. I got the new psu mounted with cooling arranged yesterday, but not hooked up yet. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
Increase in speed should almost certainly be 48/28 faster. I think this is true for acceleration to. Then you just have to hope for the electric motor to tolerate the higher voltage and for the mechanics to tolerate higher speed/acceleration. Nicklas Karlsson On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 21:02:22 -0400 Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Greetings; I am in the midst of replacing the 28 volt motor supply on my mill with a 48 volt contraption. This should, all other things remaining equal, allow me to make my accel setting a little faster, and the MAX_VEL's a bunch faster. Since I am going from 28 volts to 48 volts, is there a general rule of thumb way to determine the ratio of increase I can put in my .ini file? Thanks everybody. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
Minor nit: The E. Hemingway phrase TANSTAAFL: should be The Robert Heinlein phrase TANSTAAFL. On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Sunday 19 April 2015 14:40:06 Karlsson Wang wrote: Oh i didn't think about stepper. The equations are useful for DC, BLDC, PMSM, Asyncronous and probably also for switched reluctance. NP Nicklas, I just want to emphasize that we were looking at different pages and user experiences. I believe the 47/28 increase in MAX_VEL is entirely sensible however. But since the motor current will not change by much if any, the increase in MAX_ACCEL wouldn't be as great. With steppers, MAX_ACCEL and MAX_VEL are effectively the playground teeter-totter, where raising one, needs to be accomnpanied by a decrease in the other. Violation=stalled motor. The E. Hemingway phrase TANSTAAFL comes handily to mind. ;-) These motors also have relatively heavy dampers, which would tend to impinge on the MAX_ACCEL settings also. But, putting them on effectively doubled the MAX_VEL I could use by damping the resonances at 1/8 stepper divides. This also is something that needs further reseach with a view of running the motor at the ideal current that fits the drivers idea of interphase mapping. I would love to see a driver where the current could be adjusted live, obviously for the least noise when moving at a good singing rate. But these 2M542's only read the dip switches for those settings at power up. [big snip] Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
The *.hal files fulfill a similar functionality as a netlist in schematic capture software. Difference is signals exist in software instead of on a circuit board. I guess it would be possible to modify or make Linuxcnc accept a netlist as a hal file and in such case for example Geda could be used for configuration. What do you think? Nicklas Karlsson On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 09:05:35 +0300 Marius Alksnys marius.alks...@gmail.com wrote: On 2015.04.15 17:13, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 13.04.15 23:57, Ralph Stirling wrote: Looks useful, Marius. I use Kicad rather than Eagle though. The individual diagrams I found at the link were PDFs, and did not require Eagle for viewing. What is used for generating PDF doco seems to be of relevance predominantly to the creator? I created Eagle library to be able to make electric schematics for electrical connections in control cabinets of machines. I know Eagle is meant for designing PCBs, but I can't find better (easy to learn, with lots of libraries, scriptable, popular, multi-platform, with free version available) software for electrical schematics. Incidentally, Eagle seems to be something of a LinuxCNC standard, if we have any, in that it is more commonly used for HAL and ClassicLadder related diagrams than anything else, AFAICT. Have to check this again, probably learn how to... I use text editor to create / edit HAL files. Erik -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
Oh i didn't think about stepper. The equations are useful for DC, BLDC, PMSM, Asyncronous and probably also for switched reluctance. On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 14:19:04 -0400 Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Sunday 19 April 2015 10:22:40 Karlsson Wang wrote: Motor torque depends on current. Then increasing acceleration torque will also increase but how much depends on the inertia, there rotational inertia and the mass moved. It is also possible there are some viscous load which depend on speed of motion or rotational load. I assume current will increase but how much I have no idea. Electric motor generate a back EMF which depend on rotational speed so there is less voltage left to increase current/torque at high speed and more available voltage left to decrease speed. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushed_DC_electric_motor#Torque_and_spee d_of_a_DC_motor the voltage balance and torque equations a little bit more than half way down in the document is incredibly good knowledge if working with servo motors. It is also useful to think about this equations then working with other types of electric motors. The equations are actually so important i think it would be a good idea to include them in the Linuxcnc manual maybe in the integrator chapter and I could provide some help if I have enough time. We are slightly at odds Nicklas. You are talking servo's correctly, and I am talking steppers. These are different critters. The servo's you refer to will allow a small error and catch up when they can, which may or may not wreck your part depending of the tolerances. Steppers OTOH, will stall under the same conditions, wrecking the part and likely breaking the tool too when the direction reverses at the end of that move So one has to be quite considerably more cautious, even paranoid, about how much you ask of them in the speed ranges where the torque to stay precisely on the path may be iffy, particularly in a complex part that may be quite a few loops thru the code to do the depth the job needs. One of those consideration is available spindle horsepower, as in lack thereof, its a 200 watt motor! I intend to switch it out at some point, putting the 400 watter I took out of the lathe in its place, making it a 2 speed range belt drive when I do, all of which I will have to design make. It, for some jobs, needs both 5x the rpms to get above any framing resonances and a higher feed rate just to enhance the tool life by cutting deeper into cooling wood when I am carving wood. The wood, if the tool is sharp, doesn't burn, but the bit can turn straw colored occassionaly. But thats off topic and I haven't really started on a design for that yet. The higher voltage psu and a 5i25 card I just ordered are this springs project. The motor is a different critter. Regargs Nicklas Karlsson On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 05:55:31 -0400 Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Sunday 19 April 2015 02:58:14 Karlsson Wang wrote: Increase in speed should almost certainly be 48/28 faster. I think this is true for acceleration to. Then you just have to hope for the electric motor to tolerate the higher voltage and for the mechanics to tolerate higher speed/acceleration. Humm, I would have to assume that since the motor currents would not be similarly increased, that the accels, wouldn't be enhanced by anywhere near that same ratio. The motors ultimate torque shouldn't change, just the speed at which the torque falls off due to inductance? At present I do not believe the applied accels are modulated in the TP to be slower at the higher motor speeds where torque is falling off, so we need to use an accel it can handle in spite of the falloff. This costs us time at the lower speeds where there is generally plenty of torque. IMO, the accel should be applied with something that looks like a t=rc time constant mapping, but that would not be optimum for the needed decel since that would start a new t=rc curve, a fast slowing at an rpm point where the torque is not available. Experimentally I have found I can move the existing setup at 22 ipm in the range where table weights are well balanced if I use really slow accels like 2 seconds or more to top speed. But for anything like decent accel settings, I'll stall at 10 ipm or less so I generally use sub 10 ipm moves now. One of the reasons for kicking the motor voltage up closer to the limits of the drivers, 50 volts in the case of the 2M542 driver. Nicklas Karlsson Thanks Nicklas. At least I have a starting point now for how much faster I can go. I got the new psu mounted with cooling arranged yesterday, but not hooked up yet. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
On 19 April 2015 at 18:31, Karlsson Wang nicklas.karls...@karlssonwang.se wrote: I guess it would be possible to modify or make Linuxcnc accept a netlist as a hal file and in such case for example Geda could be used for configuration. What do you think? It has been tried: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Eagle2HAL But that does rather the same thing that Rockhopper does, but not as prettily. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
Then I am not stupid. I guess hierarchical design in particular and buses may help. Rockhopper? Bicycles? Or the Rockhopper penguin? Nicklas Karlsson On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:40:46 +0100 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 April 2015 at 18:31, Karlsson Wang nicklas.karls...@karlssonwang.se wrote: I guess it would be possible to modify or make Linuxcnc accept a netlist as a hal file and in such case for example Geda could be used for configuration. What do you think? It has been tried: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Eagle2HAL But that does rather the same thing that Rockhopper does, but not as prettily. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
On 19 April 2015 at 20:08, Karlsson Wang nicklas.karls...@karlssonwang.se wrote: Rockhopper? Bicycles? Or the Rockhopper penguin? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rockhopper_Web_Server -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
On Sunday 19 April 2015 10:22:40 Karlsson Wang wrote: Motor torque depends on current. Then increasing acceleration torque will also increase but how much depends on the inertia, there rotational inertia and the mass moved. It is also possible there are some viscous load which depend on speed of motion or rotational load. I assume current will increase but how much I have no idea. Electric motor generate a back EMF which depend on rotational speed so there is less voltage left to increase current/torque at high speed and more available voltage left to decrease speed. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushed_DC_electric_motor#Torque_and_spee d_of_a_DC_motor the voltage balance and torque equations a little bit more than half way down in the document is incredibly good knowledge if working with servo motors. It is also useful to think about this equations then working with other types of electric motors. The equations are actually so important i think it would be a good idea to include them in the Linuxcnc manual maybe in the integrator chapter and I could provide some help if I have enough time. We are slightly at odds Nicklas. You are talking servo's correctly, and I am talking steppers. These are different critters. The servo's you refer to will allow a small error and catch up when they can, which may or may not wreck your part depending of the tolerances. Steppers OTOH, will stall under the same conditions, wrecking the part and likely breaking the tool too when the direction reverses at the end of that move So one has to be quite considerably more cautious, even paranoid, about how much you ask of them in the speed ranges where the torque to stay precisely on the path may be iffy, particularly in a complex part that may be quite a few loops thru the code to do the depth the job needs. One of those consideration is available spindle horsepower, as in lack thereof, its a 200 watt motor! I intend to switch it out at some point, putting the 400 watter I took out of the lathe in its place, making it a 2 speed range belt drive when I do, all of which I will have to design make. It, for some jobs, needs both 5x the rpms to get above any framing resonances and a higher feed rate just to enhance the tool life by cutting deeper into cooling wood when I am carving wood. The wood, if the tool is sharp, doesn't burn, but the bit can turn straw colored occassionaly. But thats off topic and I haven't really started on a design for that yet. The higher voltage psu and a 5i25 card I just ordered are this springs project. The motor is a different critter. Regargs Nicklas Karlsson On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 05:55:31 -0400 Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Sunday 19 April 2015 02:58:14 Karlsson Wang wrote: Increase in speed should almost certainly be 48/28 faster. I think this is true for acceleration to. Then you just have to hope for the electric motor to tolerate the higher voltage and for the mechanics to tolerate higher speed/acceleration. Humm, I would have to assume that since the motor currents would not be similarly increased, that the accels, wouldn't be enhanced by anywhere near that same ratio. The motors ultimate torque shouldn't change, just the speed at which the torque falls off due to inductance? At present I do not believe the applied accels are modulated in the TP to be slower at the higher motor speeds where torque is falling off, so we need to use an accel it can handle in spite of the falloff. This costs us time at the lower speeds where there is generally plenty of torque. IMO, the accel should be applied with something that looks like a t=rc time constant mapping, but that would not be optimum for the needed decel since that would start a new t=rc curve, a fast slowing at an rpm point where the torque is not available. Experimentally I have found I can move the existing setup at 22 ipm in the range where table weights are well balanced if I use really slow accels like 2 seconds or more to top speed. But for anything like decent accel settings, I'll stall at 10 ipm or less so I generally use sub 10 ipm moves now. One of the reasons for kicking the motor voltage up closer to the limits of the drivers, 50 volts in the case of the 2M542 driver. Nicklas Karlsson Thanks Nicklas. At least I have a starting point now for how much faster I can go. I got the new psu mounted with cooling arranged yesterday, but not hooked up yet. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
Then I am not stupid. I guess hierarchical design in particular and buses may help. Rockhopper? Bicycles? Or the Rockhopper penguin? Nicklas Karlsson On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:40:46 +0100 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 April 2015 at 18:31, Karlsson Wang nicklas.karls...@karlssonwang.se wrote: I guess it would be possible to modify or make Linuxcnc accept a netlist as a hal file and in such case for example Geda could be used for configuration. What do you think? It has been tried: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Eagle2HAL But that does rather the same thing that Rockhopper does, but not as prettily. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
For cabinets it would be useful to count the number of connection points for each net, one screw connector for each for those who need screws. Nicklas Karlsson On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:40:46 +0100 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 April 2015 at 18:31, Karlsson Wang nicklas.karls...@karlssonwang.se wrote: I guess it would be possible to modify or make Linuxcnc accept a netlist as a hal file and in such case for example Geda could be used for configuration. What do you think? It has been tried: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Eagle2HAL But that does rather the same thing that Rockhopper does, but not as prettily. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
On Sunday 19 April 2015 15:08:05 Karlsson Wang wrote: Then I am not stupid. I guess hierarchical design in particular and buses may help. Rockhopper? Bicycles? Or the Rockhopper penguin? Rockhopper, named after the penguin of course, is a utility that scans an operating linuxcnc system, and draws, in vector (svg) format, a logic flow diagram of how its working in a web page format you can look at with your pet browser. Google should find a place to download it easily enough. That makes a miss-placed addf in the hal file stick out worse than a sore thumb. However the image detail is complex enough you will need to save that page file from the browser, then run it thru something that makes multiple page posters out of it, scaling the .svg output way up and making a 6 to 12 page printout that you will need to trim edges on and tape together into a huge poster to hang on the inside of the double doors to my shop building before the individual logic blocks are big enough that you can read the module name contained in it. The one thing it doesn't do, and which I personally would find handy, is to follow or highlight somehow the dead end logic paths so you know what to nuke in the .hal file as its just wasted space and maybe even execution cycles. Mistakes such as addf'ing module(s) that are never used because you figured out a better way. At my age short term memory, that seems to happen more than I like to admit. ;-) As I do it today, I go thru the file once I have it working, grepping for every module or signal name I enounter, and if that one is the only one in the whole file, then it is safely deletable. Either way works but if rockhopper stuck its tongue out at you on finding a signal with only one end, it would be a time saver IMO. YMMV of course. Nicklas Karlsson On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:40:46 +0100 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 April 2015 at 18:31, Karlsson Wang nicklas.karls...@karlssonwang.se wrote: I guess it would be possible to modify or make Linuxcnc accept a netlist as a hal file and in such case for example Geda could be used for configuration. What do you think? It has been tried: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Eagle2HAL But that does rather the same thing that Rockhopper does, but not as prettily. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_ SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
On Sunday 19 April 2015 14:40:06 Karlsson Wang wrote: Oh i didn't think about stepper. The equations are useful for DC, BLDC, PMSM, Asyncronous and probably also for switched reluctance. NP Nicklas, I just want to emphasize that we were looking at different pages and user experiences. I believe the 47/28 increase in MAX_VEL is entirely sensible however. But since the motor current will not change by much if any, the increase in MAX_ACCEL wouldn't be as great. With steppers, MAX_ACCEL and MAX_VEL are effectively the playground teeter-totter, where raising one, needs to be accomnpanied by a decrease in the other. Violation=stalled motor. The E. Hemingway phrase TANSTAAFL comes handily to mind. ;-) These motors also have relatively heavy dampers, which would tend to impinge on the MAX_ACCEL settings also. But, putting them on effectively doubled the MAX_VEL I could use by damping the resonances at 1/8 stepper divides. This also is something that needs further reseach with a view of running the motor at the ideal current that fits the drivers idea of interphase mapping. I would love to see a driver where the current could be adjusted live, obviously for the least noise when moving at a good singing rate. But these 2M542's only read the dip switches for those settings at power up. [big snip] Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
On Sunday 19 April 2015 20:24:10 Charles Buckley wrote: Minor nit: The E. Hemingway phrase TANSTAAFL: should be The Robert Heinlein phrase TANSTAAFL. Minor nit? No. Sorry, our good and well known sci-fi author Robert A. Heinlein borrowed it from Hemingway, Hemingway was first to use it by about 20 years. Possibly more as I've not read everything Hemingway wrote. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Still no success logging PLM2000 communications.
I need a DOS COM port logger that will write to the log file as it monitors and that can handle being cut off by a shut down or reboot. Need to be able to run it with command line switches to tell it which port to log to a file then have no further interaction with the logger. In other words it must stream to disk in a manner that a sudden, unexpected stop doesn't corrupt the log or leave it empty. Why? Because the old DOS software for the PLM2000 will not exit or quit. It just ignores the command. The only ways to quit are hold the power button until it shuts off or CtrlAltDel. (Gotta love it when companies just discontinue a product with a major bug like that left unfixed.) Just got done trying a program called comshow. It created a log file with no contents. I presume because I could not exit the CNC software to re-run comshow to tell it to dump its log to disk. I setup a 256 meg USB stick to boot a laptop to Win98 DOS to try this. I've also setup an old 433Mhz Celeron box with Win95 to try running the CNC program under Windows. Can run a COM logger there and just kill the CNC without also hacking off the logger. Just need to get the mill moved to a more permanent location so I can put the PC next to it. All this just so hopefully it can be figured out how to control this old milling machine with LCNC. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
On Sunday 19 April 2015 22:01:29 Tom Easterday wrote: There are quite a few early attributes of the phrase. Like all things these days it gets attributed to someone on the Internet and sticks regardless of the truth. I guess we need to find the actual writings to verify. I have read (nearly) everything Hemingway has written and I don’t recall it, though it has been many years since I read it and I could certainly be mistaken. Given that it (may?) appear to have been written ~80 years before Hemingway perhaps he did use it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html Strangely, neither of those sites mention Hemingway. I was going by an editorial in one of the scifi rags back in the 70's where RAH was said to have disclaimed the phrase, crediting Hemingway as the person he borrowed it from. I can't lay my hand on the good book and say it, but I believe it was in one of Stanley Schmidt's editorials in Analog. When Stanley took over after Hugo, I had been used to Hogo's style of editing, but it only took 3 or 4 of Stanley's editorials to convince me I was reading the output of the smartest man then alive. For instance, when we killed those 3 astronauts in Houston, he went both ballistic and into teaching mode, stateing that the fire that did them in would have been nothing more than a tripped breaker in space, and went on to explain that the short would have started a fire, but that because in a zero gravity situation, there would not have been any gravity driven convection currents to bring fresh oxygen to the fire, so it would have silently smothered itself before it was as big as a marble, in its own combustion products. The real stupidity, and I have to agree, was that in space, the cabin pressure is something around 5 psi of fairly pure oxygen. Enough to support the men breathing it with faceplates open. But somebody wanted a fscking pressure test at the same effective overpressure of about 5 psi, above normal atmospheric, or damned near 20 psi in the capsule. That, combined with gravity driven convection currents bringing fresh pure oxygen to the fire, literally turned the inside of the capsule into an estimated 6000F inferno in 2 or 3 seconds. Since the hatch opens inward, and could not be opened against the inside pressure, rising rapidly because of the fire, it was said, and I looked at the capsule fairly closely, there were no smudges on the hatch handles that I could see from the limited angles the public was allowed to look, they were dead before they could reach the handles. I don't recall whether I saw it during a visit to the Cape, or when it was on display at the Smithsonian. One of those 2 places. Heck, I think the History Channel even had some footage of it 30 years later, but like the press, made no attempt to explain why it burnt so fast. But the press, then as now, was totally in the CYA mode, so that explanation never got an ounce of ink in the press of the day. And I don't trust the press to even tell me the day of the week since. There were a goodly number of good sensible people playing follow the leader that day, and IMO they should have stood in court on charges of at least manslaughter. The public would have settled for nothing less. Heads in baskets would have been demanded. Its all ancient history now, but it still makes me sad. It was distilled, pure stupidity that killed those good men. I'll get me coat now. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need a SWAG
There are quite a few early attributes of the phrase. Like all things these days it gets attributed to someone on the Internet and sticks regardless of the truth. I guess we need to find the actual writings to verify. I have read (nearly) everything Hemingway has written and I don’t recall it, though it has been many years since I read it and I could certainly be mistaken. Given that it (may?) appear to have been written ~80 years before Hemingway perhaps he did use it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html On Apr 19, 2015, at 9:30 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Sunday 19 April 2015 20:24:10 Charles Buckley wrote: Minor nit: The E. Hemingway phrase TANSTAAFL: should be The Robert Heinlein phrase TANSTAAFL. Minor nit? No. Sorry, our good and well known sci-fi author Robert A. Heinlein borrowed it from Hemingway, Hemingway was first to use it by about 20 years. Possibly more as I've not read everything Hemingway wrote. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa cards visual documentation
On 04/19/2015 01:40 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 19 April 2015 at 18:31, Karlsson Wang nicklas.karls...@karlssonwang.se wrote: I guess it would be possible to modify or make Linuxcnc accept a netlist as a hal file and in such case for example Geda could be used for configuration. What do you think? It has been tried: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Eagle2HAL But that does rather the same thing that Rockhopper does, but not as prettily. i think rockhopper does not output hal from a drawing. i think it 'just' displays a visualization of a hal file. it's not a design tool, its a proofing tool. I think the Geda and Eagle attempts were the other direction, they attempted to visually create netlists using a gui pallete of comps. ( iirc i tried to read _and_ write hal files ) any 'pretty' in Geda/Eagle is up to the designer (s)he can drag and drop or rearrange as (s)he likes no modifications allowed in the rockhopper output you cant re-arrange the svg to make sense of one knot. your back to edit compile debug (repeat) rockhopper geda eagle are all incomplete from some view tomp tjtr33 ( i wrote the miserable Geda effort :( -- BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
