Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[John Dammeyer]

> On Thursday 07 May 2020 22:39:13 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Gene,
> > Do you know which source code file has the G33.1 control?  I'd like to
> > look at how it's done. John
> >
> No, I haven't a clue John.  Andy probably knows.
> 

He's likely in bed by now given his time zone is 8 hours ahead of mine.
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 22:39:13 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Gene,
> Do you know which source code file has the G33.1 control?  I'd like to
> look at how it's done. John
>
No, I haven't a clue John.  Andy probably knows.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: May-07-20 6:26 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI
> > ATM 10 encoder
> >
> > On Thursday 07 May 2020 20:53:50 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > I�m getting confused by the reply�s on this thread. Lol.
> > >
> > > Anyways, the tyco relay is rated at up to 28vdc switching voltage
> > > so which equates to roughly 1450 rpm. I doubt I would be reversing
> > > anywhere near that load level. I would expect the reverse would
> > > occur at near zero rpm �assuming a G33.1 operates that way. I need
> > > to research how that CAN cycle works within LinuxCNC? I definitely
> > > do not want to perform any high speed reverse motion with this
> > > circuit.
> >
> > g33.1 does a hard direction switch at the bottom of the hole. In the
> > 2 machines I have with PMDC motors, I have had to insert some hal
> > code to slow that to something the machinery can survive repeatedly.
> > Basicly it slows the motor to a stop, detected by a timeout running
> > out as the encoder stops, then the direction change is allowed on
> > thru the the controller, and the speed is ramped back up in reverse.
> > Ditto for the return to forward at the top. Sorta complex, but its
> > all done in around 400 milliseconds per direction change on the
> > GO704.  Because the ideal waveform for that shaping is a
> > sine-squared I am familiar with as an old analog tv engineer, and a
> > limit3 module can do a reasonable version of that, I use that to
> > both stop and restart the motor.  Because Jons pwm-servo is a full 4
> > quadrant controller it pulls the energy out of the spinning motor,
> > dumping it back into the motors psu as it stops the motor, which
> > normally runs at 125 volts, pushing it up to about 165 volts for a
> > few milliseconds but then dumps it back into the motor as it spins
> > it back up in the other direction.  No big power line surge despite
> > the iron in the motor squeaking because Jon's servo amp has a 17 amp
> > current limit programmed into it.
> >
> > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:41 PM James Isaac  
wrote:
> > > > Thank you, Gene.
> > > >
> > > > Got it.
> > > > Looks like I have to take the Python book from the top of the
> > > > shelf, and put it lower.
> > > > Firefox is my standard, so the lack of Internet Explorer is no
> > > > hardship. Reading this Wiki puts my buying a VFD back by some
> > > > reading time.
> >
> > Chuckle, you'll do it anyway :)
> >
> > Take care now, James Isaac.
> >
> > > > > James Isaac.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > > Huh? Just search for rockhopper and skip the penguin results. 
> > > > Damn, that has exploded into 5 million hits since the last time
> > > > I did that, but "rockhopper for linuxcnc" gets that page as the
> > > > first hit in our own wiki at:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > The are download from git, and install instructs at the bottom
> > > > of that same page.  Bookmark it recommended.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[John Dammeyer]

Gene,
Do you know which source code file has the G33.1 control?  I'd like to look at 
how it's done.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: May-07-20 6:26 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 
> encoder
> 
> On Thursday 07 May 2020 20:53:50 Dan Henderson wrote:
> 
> > I�m getting confused by the reply�s on this thread. Lol.
> >
> > Anyways, the tyco relay is rated at up to 28vdc switching voltage so
> > which equates to roughly 1450 rpm. I doubt I would be reversing
> > anywhere near that load level. I would expect the reverse would occur
> > at near zero rpm �assuming a G33.1 operates that way. I need to
> > research how that CAN cycle works within LinuxCNC? I definitely do not
> > want to perform any high speed reverse motion with this circuit.
> 
> g33.1 does a hard direction switch at the bottom of the hole. In the 2
> machines I have with PMDC motors, I have had to insert some hal code to
> slow that to something the machinery can survive repeatedly. Basicly it
> slows the motor to a stop, detected by a timeout running out as the
> encoder stops, then the direction change is allowed on thru the the
> controller, and the speed is ramped back up in reverse. Ditto for the
> return to forward at the top. Sorta complex, but its all done in around
> 400 milliseconds per direction change on the GO704.  Because the ideal
> waveform for that shaping is a sine-squared I am familiar with as an old
> analog tv engineer, and a limit3 module can do a reasonable version of
> that, I use that to both stop and restart the motor.  Because Jons
> pwm-servo is a full 4 quadrant controller it pulls the energy out of the
> spinning motor, dumping it back into the motors psu as it stops the
> motor, which normally runs at 125 volts, pushing it up to about 165
> volts for a few milliseconds but then dumps it back into the motor as it
> spins it back up in the other direction.  No big power line surge
> despite the iron in the motor squeaking because Jon's servo amp has a 17
> amp current limit programmed into it.
> 
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:41 PM James Isaac  wrote:
> > > Thank you, Gene.
> > >
> > > Got it.
> > > Looks like I have to take the Python book from the top of the shelf,
> > > and put it lower.
> > > Firefox is my standard, so the lack of Internet Explorer is no
> > > hardship. Reading this Wiki puts my buying a VFD back by some
> > > reading time.
> 
> Chuckle, you'll do it anyway :)
> > >
> Take care now, James Isaac.
> > > >
> > > > James Isaac.
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > Huh? Just search for rockhopper and skip the penguin results.  Damn,
> > > that has exploded into 5 million hits since the last time I did
> > > that, but "rockhopper for linuxcnc" gets that page as the first hit
> > > in our own wiki at:
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > The are download from git, and install instructs at the bottom of
> > > that same page.  Bookmark it recommended.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Dan Henderson [mailto:luvtof...@gmail.com]

> Thanks for that Jon. That helps explain this a bit further. I believe the
> base period in the ini is set to 100,000. Not sure if that is nS or u
> value? Can this be change to suit or is it tied to the speed of the system?

Hi Dan,
All of my comments are based on what I think I've learned so far.  If anyone 
else sees an error please correct me.

It's in nano-seconds and it's pretty big on your system and works out to 10kHz. 
 That's the max step rate you will get from your system as long as you have the 
addf parport.0.reset base-thread.  Otherwise the max step rate is half that.

You generally get that value from running the program that tests your system 
for latency.  The jitter you get from that test will change how accurate that 
24uS period actually is.

>From my INI file
BASE_PERIOD = 24000  <-- This is 24,000 nS or 24uS or 0.24 seconds and 
equivalent to 41.6667kHz. 
SERVO_PERIOD = 100 <-- this is 1 million nano-seconds or 1mS equivalent to 
1kHz.

So what does it mean?
>From your HAL file.

loadrt trivkins
loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT base_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]BASE_PERIOD 
servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES
loadrt hal_parport cfg="0xe000 out 0xe800 out"
loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0
loadrt encoder num_chan=1
loadrt abs count=1
loadrt scale count=1
loadrt lowpass count=1
loadrt near
loadrt pwmgen output_type=1

Inside each of these files is a function called 
int rtapi_app_main(void) {...}

In that function the command line arguments like step_type are parsed and 
default values are set up. Here's how the Parallel port read function is 
configured.
/* make read function name */
rtapi_snprintf(name, sizeof(name), "parport.%d.read", n);
/* export read function */  
   retval = hal_export_funct(name, read_port, 
&(port_data_array[n]),0, 0, comp_id);
with the names of the functions you add later in the HAL file with commands 
like:

addf parport.0.read base-thread

each addf function with base-thread as an argument must run to completion in 
less than 24uS on my system or there won't be time for anything else.Each 
of these programs, generally found in the src/hal or src/emc path.

The ones marked servo-thread  run once every SERVO_PERIOD which is set at  1mS. 
 

The PID runs once per 1mS.  The stepgen runs every 24uS on my system.

Hopefully this helps.  So you know the 'why' rather than just do this and tell 
us what happened.

John Dammeyer

> 
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:54 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> >
> > If you look at the source code for "encoders.c" John Kasunich's excellent
> > documentation says this:
> >
> > "The driver exports variables for each counters inputs and output.
> > It also exports two functions.  "encoder.update-counters" must be
> > called in a high speed thread, at least twice the maximum desired
> > count rate.  "encoder.capture-position" can be called at a much
> > slower rate, and updates the output variables."
> >
> > So if your encoder provides a quadrature count of 200 lines (800
> > quadrature) and you turn that spindle at 4700 RPM (78.RPS) then 800
> > pulses/turn * 78.3 turns/sec  = 62.666KHz so your BASE_PERIOD must be
> > at least 125kHz (8,000 nS)
> >
> > In your working example 1200 RPM is 20 RPS * 800 = 16,000 and twice that
> > is 32,000Hz (31,250 nS BASE_PERIOD).
> > What is your BASE_PERIOD set at in your INI file?
> >
> > Work it backwards.  For example my PP HAL file says 24,000nS for the BASE
> > THREAD (41,667kHz).  Assuming I have a 200 line encoder on the spindle then
> > 41,667kHz/2=20,8333 and divided by 800 = 26 RPS or 1562 RPM.  Since I want
> > to turn my spindle up to 3000 RPM that means either I have to decrease the
> > BASE_PERIOD (increase frequency)  or reduce the spindle encoder count to
> > about 100.
> >
> > That means I need no more than 100 slots per rev on a disk.  That's doable
> > and from what I've read lots of people can thread with that.
> >
> > And, Sam Sokolik has been able to do rudimentary hex holes (although
> > slowly) with less than that.
> >
> > Now since I have a MESA 7i92H all the numbers will change.  I've not yet
> > looked at the MESA software.
> >
> > Haven't even really followed the entire path from a
> > G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025
> > to the Z axis motion in steps/second tracking spindle RPM.
> >
> > John Dammeyer
> >



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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 20:53:50 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I’m getting confused by the reply’s on this thread. Lol.
>
> Anyways, the tyco relay is rated at up to 28vdc switching voltage so
> which equates to roughly 1450 rpm. I doubt I would be reversing
> anywhere near that load level. I would expect the reverse would occur
> at near zero rpm —assuming a G33.1 operates that way. I need to
> research how that CAN cycle works within LinuxCNC? I definitely do not
> want to perform any high speed reverse motion with this circuit.

g33.1 does a hard direction switch at the bottom of the hole. In the 2 
machines I have with PMDC motors, I have had to insert some hal code to 
slow that to something the machinery can survive repeatedly. Basicly it 
slows the motor to a stop, detected by a timeout running out as the 
encoder stops, then the direction change is allowed on thru the the 
controller, and the speed is ramped back up in reverse. Ditto for the 
return to forward at the top. Sorta complex, but its all done in around 
400 milliseconds per direction change on the GO704.  Because the ideal 
waveform for that shaping is a sine-squared I am familiar with as an old 
analog tv engineer, and a limit3 module can do a reasonable version of 
that, I use that to both stop and restart the motor.  Because Jons 
pwm-servo is a full 4 quadrant controller it pulls the energy out of the 
spinning motor, dumping it back into the motors psu as it stops the 
motor, which normally runs at 125 volts, pushing it up to about 165 
volts for a few milliseconds but then dumps it back into the motor as it 
spins it back up in the other direction.  No big power line surge 
despite the iron in the motor squeaking because Jon's servo amp has a 17 
amp current limit programmed into it.

> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:41 PM James Isaac  wrote:
> > Thank you, Gene.
> >
> > Got it.
> > Looks like I have to take the Python book from the top of the shelf,
> > and put it lower.
> > Firefox is my standard, so the lack of Internet Explorer is no
> > hardship. Reading this Wiki puts my buying a VFD back by some
> > reading time.

Chuckle, you'll do it anyway :)
> >
Take care now, James Isaac.
> > >
> > > James Isaac.

[...]

> > Huh? Just search for rockhopper and skip the penguin results.  Damn,
> > that has exploded into 5 million hits since the last time I did
> > that, but "rockhopper for linuxcnc" gets that page as the first hit
> > in our own wiki at:
> >
> >  
> >
> > The are download from git, and install instructs at the bottom of
> > that same page.  Bookmark it recommended.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

Thanks for that Jon. That helps explain this a bit further. I believe the
base period in the ini is set to 100,000. Not sure if that is nS or u
value? Can this be change to suit or is it tied to the speed of the system?

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:54 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dan Henderson [mailto:luvtof...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: May-07-20 2:40 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder
> >
> > Why certainly Gene (see attached). I actually have it working a little
> > better now. My spindle-at-speed LED will start going bonkers around 1200
> > rpm. I'm guessing this is when the counter "throws up it's hands and
> says -
> > I quit!" lol. The spindle will operate all the way to around 4700 rpm but
> > anything above this and the MC-2100 shuts it down -- must be some kind of
> > voltage limiter kicking in then.
> >
>
> If you look at the source code for "encoders.c" John Kasunich's excellent
> documentation says this:
>
> "The driver exports variables for each counters inputs and output.
> It also exports two functions.  "encoder.update-counters" must be
> called in a high speed thread, at least twice the maximum desired
> count rate.  "encoder.capture-position" can be called at a much
> slower rate, and updates the output variables."
>
> So if your encoder provides a quadrature count of 200 lines (800
> quadrature) and you turn that spindle at 4700 RPM (78.RPS) then 800
> pulses/turn * 78.3 turns/sec  = 62.666KHz so your BASE_PERIOD must be
> at least 125kHz (8,000 nS)
>
> In your working example 1200 RPM is 20 RPS * 800 = 16,000 and twice that
> is 32,000Hz (31,250 nS BASE_PERIOD).
> What is your BASE_PERIOD set at in your INI file?
>
> Work it backwards.  For example my PP HAL file says 24,000nS for the BASE
> THREAD (41,667kHz).  Assuming I have a 200 line encoder on the spindle then
> 41,667kHz/2=20,8333 and divided by 800 = 26 RPS or 1562 RPM.  Since I want
> to turn my spindle up to 3000 RPM that means either I have to decrease the
> BASE_PERIOD (increase frequency)  or reduce the spindle encoder count to
> about 100.
>
> That means I need no more than 100 slots per rev on a disk.  That's doable
> and from what I've read lots of people can thread with that.
>
> And, Sam Sokolik has been able to do rudimentary hex holes (although
> slowly) with less than that.
>
> Now since I have a MESA 7i92H all the numbers will change.  I've not yet
> looked at the MESA software.
>
> Haven't even really followed the entire path from a
> G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025
> to the Z axis motion in steps/second tracking spindle RPM.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:29 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thursday 07 May 2020 13:19:23 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > I believe this is open loop. Isn�t PID only used in closed loop
> > > > control?
> > > >
> > > Its (the PID is) a waste of processor time if open loop. I don't use
> one
> > > of those in any spindle run by a vfd, the vfd is generally stiff enough
> > > control by itself. If I thread on that machine, it will have a spindle
> > > encoder, but its only job is to glue the axis motion being driven to
> cut
> > > the thread, to the spindle rotation, in the case of a g33.1, going both
> > > in and out of the hole. If you aren't useing a PID for the spindle,
> that
> > > leaves motion I think.
> > >
> > > I think its time we saw your .hal file. Can you insert it into a mail?
> > >
> > > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gene Heskett 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > > > > On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > > > > I�ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > > > > > > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears
> > > > > > > to stabilize. It�s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying
> > > > > > > to chase its tail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> > > > > > response of the object being controlled.
> > > > > > You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> > > > > > delay. This may be possible by adding
> > > > > > D to it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon
> > > > >
> > > > > But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed was
> > > > > never to be injected into any signal path leading back to a PID.
> > > > > That near's output s/b only to that input to motion, and possibly
> to
> > > > > an indicator led in the gui so the operator can be advised if its
> > > > > acting funkity. Flickering could be worn brushes in a brushed PMDC
> > > > > motor for instance.
> > > > >
> > > > > What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the proper
> > > > > re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating axis. That
> > > > > aspect of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned recently or I
> > > > > wouldn't even hav

Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

I’m getting confused by the reply’s on this thread. Lol.

Anyways, the tyco relay is rated at up to 28vdc switching voltage so which
equates to roughly 1450 rpm. I doubt I would be reversing anywhere near
that load level. I would expect the reverse would occur at near zero rpm
—assuming a G33.1 operates that way. I need to research how that CAN cycle
works within LinuxCNC? I definitely do not want to perform any high speed
reverse motion with this circuit.

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:41 PM James Isaac  wrote:

> Thank you, Gene.
>
> Got it.
> Looks like I have to take the Python book from the top of the shelf, and
> put it lower.
> Firefox is my standard, so the lack of Internet Explorer is no hardship.
> Reading this Wiki puts my buying a VFD back by some reading time.
>
>
> James Isaac.
>
> 
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: May 7, 2020 1:15 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM
> 10 encoder
>
> On Thursday 07 May 2020 12:27:39 James Isaac wrote:
>
> > Hello Gene.
> >
> > A while back, you said:
> > > In rare cases you may have to survey the running
> > > system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to use
> > > but its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly
> > > trace every active signal in a system.)
> >
> > From your description of the target,
> > I realized my pair of [Logic Probe plus Logic Pulser] instruments
> > would not be enough, when I hit that type of mess.
> >
> > My fourth google to find out the capabilities of the rockhopper was >
> > "Electronic test instrument" "rockhopper". The fifth google was >
> > "Electronic test unit" "rockhopper".
> > This was the fifth equivalent to a Null result in a row.
> >
> > What did I miss in trying for the electrical test unit?
> >
> >
> > James Isaac.
> >
> Huh? Just search for rockhopper and skip the penguin results.  Damn, that
> has exploded into 5 million hits since the last time I did that,
> but "rockhopper for linuxcnc" gets that page as the first hit in our own
> wiki at:
>
>  
>
> The are download from git, and install instructs at the bottom of that
> same page.  Bookmark it recommended.
>
> Stay well James.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[James Isaac]

Thank you, Gene.

Got it.
Looks like I have to take the Python book from the top of the shelf, and put it 
lower.
Firefox is my standard, so the lack of Internet Explorer is no hardship.
Reading this Wiki puts my buying a VFD back by some reading time.


James Isaac.


From: Gene Heskett 
Sent: May 7, 2020 1:15 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 
encoder

On Thursday 07 May 2020 12:27:39 James Isaac wrote:

> Hello Gene.
>
> A while back, you said:
> > In rare cases you may have to survey the running
> > system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to use
> > but its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly
> > trace every active signal in a system.)
>
> From your description of the target,
> I realized my pair of [Logic Probe plus Logic Pulser] instruments
> would not be enough, when I hit that type of mess.
>
> My fourth google to find out the capabilities of the rockhopper was >
> "Electronic test instrument" "rockhopper". The fifth google was >
> "Electronic test unit" "rockhopper".
> This was the fifth equivalent to a Null result in a row.
>
> What did I miss in trying for the electrical test unit?
>
>
> James Isaac.
>
Huh? Just search for rockhopper and skip the penguin results.  Damn, that
has exploded into 5 million hits since the last time I did that,
but "rockhopper for linuxcnc" gets that page as the first hit in our own
wiki at:

 

The are download from git, and install instructs at the bottom of that
same page.  Bookmark it recommended.

Stay well James.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 19:43:20 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I should have mentioned, I’m in the process of building a reverse
> polarity circuit to trip polarity by issuing a CCW M4 via a 5v output.
> My motor controller doesn’t natively support CCW.
>
> I entered the code and it made it all the way down until the spindle
> stopped.  No reverse so it stayed there.
>
If doing a reverse with a heavy relay in the output of that cm1200, I 
don't think it will like that and will trip off, or worse. The safest 
would be to stop it, then reverse the relay, and then bring it back up 
to speed. Since thats not a 4 quadrant drive, you may have to rattle
another relay to switch on a big braking resistor to do the stopping.

 On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:36 PM Dan Henderson  
wrote:
> > Thanks Jon. My max jog speed is 54 IPM so I should be good to give
> > that a try. Thanks for the test code!
> >
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:16 PM John Dammeyer
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> >> > Sent: May-07-20 3:54 PM
> >> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using
> >> > CUI
> >>
> >> ATM 10 encoder
> >>
> >> > On 05/07/2020 12:23 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> >> > > Is there a simple test code I can run to confirm ridged tapping
> >> > > is
> >>
> >> working
> >>
> >> > > or even the feed rate is synchronized to the encoder feedback?
> >>
> >> Without,
> >>
> >> > > spindle-at-speed enabled I�ve no way to visually confirm this.
> >> >
> >> > Just try these lines and see what it does, with the Z clear
> >> > to move down to Z-1 without hitting anything :
> >> > M03 S500
> >> > G01 F10 Z0.5
> >> > G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025
> >> >
> >> > If it stalls with the spindle running, it never saw the
> >> > spindle encoder trip the index-enable to off.
> >> > If it moves down in Z, then reverses the spindle and pulls
> >> > back in Z, then it is all working.
> >> > That will give a 40 TPI thread (assuming inch units).
> >>
> >> 500 RPM is 8. RPS = 0.12 turns/second.
> >> Threading a 40 turns/inch hole means 0.12 inches/second or
> >> 12.5inches/minute.
> >> So you also have to make sure that your Z axis can move that
> >> quickly. John Dammeyer
> >>
> >> > Jon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Emc-users mailing list
> >> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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>
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 19:33:49 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Thanks Gene! I can go down to 48 PPR on the encoder. If I do so, what
> is the trade off for reducing resolution on my mill project? Is that
> enough to successfully use rigid tapping and synchronized feed/speeds?

If the spindle speed is steady, I have heard of folks doing rigid tapping 
with 1 ppr.  Ditto g76.  I have not personally tried it.  Somebody that 
may have made it work might be Sam S., he seems to oooze black magic at 
times.  I'd think it might need 5 or so turns of clearance for a 
starting position just so it could get a better average, but thats just 
a SWAG. IDK for sure.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Henderson [mailto:luvtof...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-07-20 2:40 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder
> 
> Why certainly Gene (see attached). I actually have it working a little
> better now. My spindle-at-speed LED will start going bonkers around 1200
> rpm. I'm guessing this is when the counter "throws up it's hands and says -
> I quit!" lol. The spindle will operate all the way to around 4700 rpm but
> anything above this and the MC-2100 shuts it down -- must be some kind of
> voltage limiter kicking in then.
> 

If you look at the source code for "encoders.c" John Kasunich's excellent 
documentation says this:

"The driver exports variables for each counters inputs and output.
It also exports two functions.  "encoder.update-counters" must be
called in a high speed thread, at least twice the maximum desired
count rate.  "encoder.capture-position" can be called at a much
slower rate, and updates the output variables."

So if your encoder provides a quadrature count of 200 lines (800 quadrature) 
and you turn that spindle at 4700 RPM (78.RPS) then 800 pulses/turn * 
78.3 turns/sec  = 62.666KHz so your BASE_PERIOD must be at least 125kHz 
(8,000 nS)  

In your working example 1200 RPM is 20 RPS * 800 = 16,000 and twice that is 
32,000Hz (31,250 nS BASE_PERIOD).  
What is your BASE_PERIOD set at in your INI file?

Work it backwards.  For example my PP HAL file says 24,000nS for the BASE 
THREAD (41,667kHz).  Assuming I have a 200 line encoder on the spindle then 
41,667kHz/2=20,8333 and divided by 800 = 26 RPS or 1562 RPM.  Since I want to 
turn my spindle up to 3000 RPM that means either I have to decrease the 
BASE_PERIOD (increase frequency)  or reduce the spindle encoder count to about 
100.

That means I need no more than 100 slots per rev on a disk.  That's doable and 
from what I've read lots of people can thread with that.

And, Sam Sokolik has been able to do rudimentary hex holes (although slowly) 
with less than that.

Now since I have a MESA 7i92H all the numbers will change.  I've not yet looked 
at the MESA software.  

Haven't even really followed the entire path from a 
G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025
to the Z axis motion in steps/second tracking spindle RPM.

John Dammeyer

 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:29 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 07 May 2020 13:19:23 Dan Henderson wrote:
> >
> > > I believe this is open loop. Isn�t PID only used in closed loop
> > > control?
> > >
> > Its (the PID is) a waste of processor time if open loop. I don't use one
> > of those in any spindle run by a vfd, the vfd is generally stiff enough
> > control by itself. If I thread on that machine, it will have a spindle
> > encoder, but its only job is to glue the axis motion being driven to cut
> > the thread, to the spindle rotation, in the case of a g33.1, going both
> > in and out of the hole. If you aren't useing a PID for the spindle, that
> > leaves motion I think.
> >
> > I think its time we saw your .hal file. Can you insert it into a mail?
> >
> > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > > > On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > > > I�ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > > > > > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears
> > > > > > to stabilize. It�s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying
> > > > > > to chase its tail.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> > > > > response of the object being controlled.
> > > > > You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> > > > > delay. This may be possible by adding
> > > > > D to it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > > But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed was
> > > > never to be injected into any signal path leading back to a PID.
> > > > That near's output s/b only to that input to motion, and possibly to
> > > > an indicator led in the gui so the operator can be advised if its
> > > > acting funkity. Flickering could be worn brushes in a brushed PMDC
> > > > motor for instance.
> > > >
> > > > What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the proper
> > > > re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating axis. That
> > > > aspect of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned recently or I
> > > > wouldn't even have included that paragraph in my reply.
> > > >
> > > > And from Dan's description above, I think this is an entirely
> > > > different critter from a timeing delay.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers Jon & stay well, Gene Heskett
> > > > --
> > > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the

Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

I should have mentioned, I’m in the process of building a reverse polarity
circuit to trip polarity by issuing a CCW M4 via a 5v output. My motor
controller doesn’t natively support CCW.

I entered the code and it made it all the way down until the spindle
stopped.  No reverse so it stayed there.

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:36 PM Dan Henderson  wrote:

> Thanks Jon. My max jog speed is 54 IPM so I should be good to give that a
> try. Thanks for the test code!
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:16 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
>> > Sent: May-07-20 3:54 PM
>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI
>> ATM 10 encoder
>> >
>> > On 05/07/2020 12:23 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
>> > > Is there a simple test code I can run to confirm ridged tapping is
>> working
>> > > or even the feed rate is synchronized to the encoder feedback?
>> Without,
>> > > spindle-at-speed enabled I�ve no way to visually confirm this.
>> >
>> > Just try these lines and see what it does, with the Z clear
>> > to move down to Z-1 without hitting anything :
>> > M03 S500
>> > G01 F10 Z0.5
>> > G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025
>> >
>> > If it stalls with the spindle running, it never saw the
>> > spindle encoder trip the index-enable to off.
>> > If it moves down in Z, then reverses the spindle and pulls
>> > back in Z, then it is all working.
>> > That will give a 40 TPI thread (assuming inch units).
>>
>> 500 RPM is 8. RPS = 0.12 turns/second.
>> Threading a 40 turns/inch hole means 0.12 inches/second or
>> 12.5inches/minute.
>> So you also have to make sure that your Z axis can move that quickly.
>> John Dammeyer
>>
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

Thanks Jon. My max jog speed is 54 IPM so I should be good to give that a
try. Thanks for the test code!

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:16 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> > Sent: May-07-20 3:54 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM
> 10 encoder
> >
> > On 05/07/2020 12:23 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > Is there a simple test code I can run to confirm ridged tapping is
> working
> > > or even the feed rate is synchronized to the encoder feedback? Without,
> > > spindle-at-speed enabled I�ve no way to visually confirm this.
> >
> > Just try these lines and see what it does, with the Z clear
> > to move down to Z-1 without hitting anything :
> > M03 S500
> > G01 F10 Z0.5
> > G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025
> >
> > If it stalls with the spindle running, it never saw the
> > spindle encoder trip the index-enable to off.
> > If it moves down in Z, then reverses the spindle and pulls
> > back in Z, then it is all working.
> > That will give a 40 TPI thread (assuming inch units).
>
> 500 RPM is 8. RPS = 0.12 turns/second.
> Threading a 40 turns/inch hole means 0.12 inches/second or
> 12.5inches/minute.
> So you also have to make sure that your Z axis can move that quickly.
> John Dammeyer
>
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

Thanks Gene! I can go down to 48 PPR on the encoder. If I do so, what is
the trade off for reducing resolution on my mill project? Is that enough to
successfully use rigid tapping and synchronized feed/speeds?

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:45 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 07 May 2020 17:39:32 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > Why certainly Gene (see attached). I actually have it working a little
> > better now. My spindle-at-speed LED will start going bonkers around
> > 1200 rpm. I'm guessing this is when the counter "throws up it's hands
> > and says - I quit!" lol. The spindle will operate all the way to
> > around 4700 rpm but anything above this and the MC-2100 shuts it down
> > -- must be some kind of voltage limiter kicking in then.
> >
> The one time I tried to use one of them was a failure, it seemed to have
> a mind of its own.  I made a power supply and bought one of the pico
> systems pwm-servo's. Bulletproof but be sure and tell Jon you are going
> to drive a PMDC spindle motor with it so he'll add more toroids so it
> runs cooler when working continuously.
>
> That said, your config is as well laid out as any I've looked at, and I
> don't see anything wrong at all. But I can also see how the parport and
> its missing of the encoders signals could be all of the higher speed
> problems.  The 4700 limit might be the pwmgen going to 100% duty, losing
> the 0% recharge pulse. You can check that with halscope. I run more
> voltage than the mc2100 can muster, so I can spin a treadmill motor up
> to where I worry about the cast iron fan/pulley exploding but set limits
> somewhat below that, probably around 7 grand max. Even though its geared
> 3/1 before it gets near the spindle drive, its still too fast to cut
> steel.
>
> If you can set the encoder even lower you might get to a couple thousand
> revs before the tach gets funkity.
>
> 18:40 here, I'd better go see what my missus wants for dinner.
>
>
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:29 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Thursday 07 May 2020 13:19:23 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > I believe this is open loop. Isn’t PID only used in closed loop
> > > > control?
> > >
> > > Its (the PID is) a waste of processor time if open loop. I don't use
> > > one of those in any spindle run by a vfd, the vfd is generally stiff
> > > enough control by itself. If I thread on that machine, it will have
> > > a spindle encoder, but its only job is to glue the axis motion being
> > > driven to cut the thread, to the spindle rotation, in the case of a
> > > g33.1, going both in and out of the hole. If you aren't useing a PID
> > > for the spindle, that leaves motion I think.
> > >
> > > I think its time we saw your .hal file. Can you insert it into a
> > > mail?
> > >
> > > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gene Heskett
> > > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > > > > On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > > > > I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed
> > > > > > > is configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm
> > > > > > > appears to stabilize. It’s almost like it gets caught in a
> > > > > > > loop trying to chase its tail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> > > > > > response of the object being controlled.
> > > > > > You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> > > > > > delay. This may be possible by adding
> > > > > > D to it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon
> > > > >
> > > > > But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed
> > > > > was never to be injected into any signal path leading back to a
> > > > > PID. That near's output s/b only to that input to motion, and
> > > > > possibly to an indicator led in the gui so the operator can be
> > > > > advised if its acting funkity. Flickering could be worn brushes
> > > > > in a brushed PMDC motor for instance.
> > > > >
> > > > > What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the
> > > > > proper re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating
> > > > > axis. That aspect of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned
> > > > > recently or I wouldn't even have included that paragraph in my
> > > > > reply.
> > > > >
> > > > > And from Dan's description above, I think this is an entirely
> > > > > different critter from a timeing delay.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers Jon & stay well, Gene Heskett
> > > > > --
> > > > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > > > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > > > Genes Web page 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/li

Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: May-07-20 3:54 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 
> encoder
> 
> On 05/07/2020 12:23 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > Is there a simple test code I can run to confirm ridged tapping is working
> > or even the feed rate is synchronized to the encoder feedback? Without,
> > spindle-at-speed enabled I�ve no way to visually confirm this.
> 
> Just try these lines and see what it does, with the Z clear
> to move down to Z-1 without hitting anything :
> M03 S500
> G01 F10 Z0.5
> G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025
> 
> If it stalls with the spindle running, it never saw the
> spindle encoder trip the index-enable to off.
> If it moves down in Z, then reverses the spindle and pulls
> back in Z, then it is all working.
> That will give a 40 TPI thread (assuming inch units).

500 RPM is 8. RPS = 0.12 turns/second.
Threading a 40 turns/inch hole means 0.12 inches/second or 12.5inches/minute.
So you also have to make sure that your Z axis can move that quickly.
John Dammeyer

> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Jon Elson]

On 05/07/2020 12:23 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:

Is there a simple test code I can run to confirm ridged tapping is working
or even the feed rate is synchronized to the encoder feedback? Without,
spindle-at-speed enabled I’ve no way to visually confirm this.


Just try these lines and see what it does, with the Z clear 
to move down to Z-1 without hitting anything :

M03 S500
G01 F10 Z0.5
G33.1 Z-0.55 K0.025

If it stalls with the spindle running, it never saw the 
spindle encoder trip the index-enable to off.
If it moves down in Z, then reverses the spindle and pulls 
back in Z, then it is all working.

That will give a 40 TPI thread (assuming inch units).

Jon



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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 17:39:32 Dan Henderson wrote:

> Why certainly Gene (see attached). I actually have it working a little
> better now. My spindle-at-speed LED will start going bonkers around
> 1200 rpm. I'm guessing this is when the counter "throws up it's hands
> and says - I quit!" lol. The spindle will operate all the way to
> around 4700 rpm but anything above this and the MC-2100 shuts it down
> -- must be some kind of voltage limiter kicking in then.
>
The one time I tried to use one of them was a failure, it seemed to have 
a mind of its own.  I made a power supply and bought one of the pico 
systems pwm-servo's. Bulletproof but be sure and tell Jon you are going 
to drive a PMDC spindle motor with it so he'll add more toroids so it 
runs cooler when working continuously.

That said, your config is as well laid out as any I've looked at, and I 
don't see anything wrong at all. But I can also see how the parport and 
its missing of the encoders signals could be all of the higher speed 
problems.  The 4700 limit might be the pwmgen going to 100% duty, losing 
the 0% recharge pulse. You can check that with halscope. I run more 
voltage than the mc2100 can muster, so I can spin a treadmill motor up 
to where I worry about the cast iron fan/pulley exploding but set limits 
somewhat below that, probably around 7 grand max. Even though its geared 
3/1 before it gets near the spindle drive, its still too fast to cut 
steel.

If you can set the encoder even lower you might get to a couple thousand 
revs before the tach gets funkity.

18:40 here, I'd better go see what my missus wants for dinner.


> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:29 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Thursday 07 May 2020 13:19:23 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > I believe this is open loop. Isn’t PID only used in closed loop
> > > control?
> >
> > Its (the PID is) a waste of processor time if open loop. I don't use
> > one of those in any spindle run by a vfd, the vfd is generally stiff
> > enough control by itself. If I thread on that machine, it will have
> > a spindle encoder, but its only job is to glue the axis motion being
> > driven to cut the thread, to the spindle rotation, in the case of a
> > g33.1, going both in and out of the hole. If you aren't useing a PID
> > for the spindle, that leaves motion I think.
> >
> > I think its time we saw your .hal file. Can you insert it into a
> > mail?
> >
> > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gene Heskett
> > > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > > > On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > > > I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed
> > > > > > is configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm
> > > > > > appears to stabilize. It’s almost like it gets caught in a
> > > > > > loop trying to chase its tail.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> > > > > response of the object being controlled.
> > > > > You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> > > > > delay. This may be possible by adding
> > > > > D to it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > > But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed
> > > > was never to be injected into any signal path leading back to a
> > > > PID. That near's output s/b only to that input to motion, and
> > > > possibly to an indicator led in the gui so the operator can be
> > > > advised if its acting funkity. Flickering could be worn brushes
> > > > in a brushed PMDC motor for instance.
> > > >
> > > > What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the
> > > > proper re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating
> > > > axis. That aspect of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned
> > > > recently or I wouldn't even have included that paragraph in my
> > > > reply.
> > > >
> > > > And from Dan's description above, I think this is an entirely
> > > > different critter from a timeing delay.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers Jon & stay well, Gene Heskett
> > > > --
> > > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > > Genes Web page 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we 

Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

Why certainly Gene (see attached). I actually have it working a little
better now. My spindle-at-speed LED will start going bonkers around 1200
rpm. I'm guessing this is when the counter "throws up it's hands and says -
I quit!" lol. The spindle will operate all the way to around 4700 rpm but
anything above this and the MC-2100 shuts it down -- must be some kind of
voltage limiter kicking in then.





On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:29 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 07 May 2020 13:19:23 Dan Henderson wrote:
>
> > I believe this is open loop. Isn’t PID only used in closed loop
> > control?
> >
> Its (the PID is) a waste of processor time if open loop. I don't use one
> of those in any spindle run by a vfd, the vfd is generally stiff enough
> control by itself. If I thread on that machine, it will have a spindle
> encoder, but its only job is to glue the axis motion being driven to cut
> the thread, to the spindle rotation, in the case of a g33.1, going both
> in and out of the hole. If you aren't useing a PID for the spindle, that
> leaves motion I think.
>
> I think its time we saw your .hal file. Can you insert it into a mail?
>
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > > On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > > I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > > > > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears
> > > > > to stabilize. It’s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying
> > > > > to chase its tail.
> > > >
> > > > This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> > > > response of the object being controlled.
> > > > You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> > > > delay. This may be possible by adding
> > > > D to it.
> > > >
> > > > Jon
> > >
> > > But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed was
> > > never to be injected into any signal path leading back to a PID.
> > > That near's output s/b only to that input to motion, and possibly to
> > > an indicator led in the gui so the operator can be advised if its
> > > acting funkity. Flickering could be worn brushes in a brushed PMDC
> > > motor for instance.
> > >
> > > What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the proper
> > > re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating axis. That
> > > aspect of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned recently or I
> > > wouldn't even have included that paragraph in my reply.
> > >
> > > And from Dan's description above, I think this is an entirely
> > > different critter from a timeing delay.
> > >
> > > Cheers Jon & stay well, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > Genes Web page 
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


my-mill.hal
Description: Binary data


custom_postgui.hal
Description: Binary data


 
 RIDGE 
 6

"Spindle Speed:"
("Helvetica",20)


"spindle-speed"
3000


"Spindle-At-Speed:"
("Helvetica",20)



" "
("Helvetica",20)


"spindle-at-speed-led" 
30 
"green"
"red"




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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 13:19:23 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I believe this is open loop. Isn’t PID only used in closed loop
> control?
>
Its (the PID is) a waste of processor time if open loop. I don't use one 
of those in any spindle run by a vfd, the vfd is generally stiff enough 
control by itself. If I thread on that machine, it will have a spindle 
encoder, but its only job is to glue the axis motion being driven to cut 
the thread, to the spindle rotation, in the case of a g33.1, going both 
in and out of the hole. If you aren't useing a PID for the spindle, that 
leaves motion I think.

I think its time we saw your .hal file. Can you insert it into a mail?

> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > > I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > > > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears
> > > > to stabilize. It’s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying
> > > > to chase its tail.
> > >
> > > This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> > > response of the object being controlled.
> > > You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> > > delay. This may be possible by adding
> > > D to it.
> > >
> > > Jon
> >
> > But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed was
> > never to be injected into any signal path leading back to a PID. 
> > That near's output s/b only to that input to motion, and possibly to
> > an indicator led in the gui so the operator can be advised if its
> > acting funkity. Flickering could be worn brushes in a brushed PMDC
> > motor for instance.
> >
> > What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the proper
> > re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating axis. That
> > aspect of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned recently or I
> > wouldn't even have included that paragraph in my reply.
> >
> > And from Dan's description above, I think this is an entirely
> > different critter from a timeing delay.
> >
> > Cheers Jon & stay well, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Jon Elson]

On 05/07/2020 12:19 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:

I believe this is open loop. Isn’t PID only used in closed loop control?


Oh, so the situation with and without spindle-at-speed were 
BOTH open loop?  That is
totally different, then, and now I have no idea what is 
going on. But, checking all signals

related to the spindle speed control with Halscope is indicated.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[tom-emc]

Try “Linuxcnc rockhopper”
-Tom

> On May 7, 2020, at 12:27 PM, James Isaac  wrote:
> 
> Hello Gene.
> 
> A while back, you said:
>> In rare cases you may have to survey the running
>> system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to use but
>> its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly trace
>> every active signal in a system.)
> 
>> From your description of the target,
> I realized my pair of [Logic Probe plus Logic Pulser] instruments would not 
> be enough,
> when I hit that type of mess.
> 
> My fourth google to find out the capabilities of the rockhopper was > 
> "Electronic test instrument" "rockhopper".
> The fifth google was > "Electronic test unit" "rockhopper".
> This was the fifth equivalent to a Null result in a row.
> 
> What did I miss in trying for the electrical test unit?
> 
> 
> James Isaac.


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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

Is there a simple test code I can run to confirm ridged tapping is working
or even the feed rate is synchronized to the encoder feedback? Without,
spindle-at-speed enabled I’ve no way to visually confirm this. Or at least
I don’t know how. Lol

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:18 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 07 May 2020 12:27:39 James Isaac wrote:
>
> > Hello Gene.
> >
> > A while back, you said:
> > > In rare cases you may have to survey the running
> > > system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to use
> > > but its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly
> > > trace every active signal in a system.)
> >
> > From your description of the target,
> > I realized my pair of [Logic Probe plus Logic Pulser] instruments
> > would not be enough, when I hit that type of mess.
> >
> > My fourth google to find out the capabilities of the rockhopper was >
> > "Electronic test instrument" "rockhopper". The fifth google was >
> > "Electronic test unit" "rockhopper".
> > This was the fifth equivalent to a Null result in a row.
> >
> > What did I miss in trying for the electrical test unit?
> >
> >
> > James Isaac.
> >
> Huh? Just search for rockhopper and skip the penguin results.  Damn, that
> has exploded into 5 million hits since the last time I did that,
> but "rockhopper for linuxcnc" gets that page as the first hit in our own
> wiki at:
>
>  
>
> The are download from git, and install instructs at the bottom of that
> same page.  Bookmark it recommended.
>
> Stay well James.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Dan Henderson]

I believe this is open loop. Isn’t PID only used in closed loop control?

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:
>
> > On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > > I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears to
> > > stabilize. It’s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying to chase
> > > its tail.
> >
> > This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> > response of the object being controlled.
> > You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> > delay. This may be possible by adding
> > D to it.
> >
> > Jon
>
> But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed was never
> to be injected into any signal path leading back to a PID.  That near's
> output s/b only to that input to motion, and possibly to an indicator
> led in the gui so the operator can be advised if its acting funkity.
> Flickering could be worn brushes in a brushed PMDC motor for instance.
>
> What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the proper
> re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating axis. That aspect
> of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned recently or I wouldn't
> even have included that paragraph in my reply.
>
> And from Dan's description above, I think this is an entirely different
> critter from a timeing delay.
>
> Cheers Jon & stay well, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 12:27:39 James Isaac wrote:

> Hello Gene.
>
> A while back, you said:
> > In rare cases you may have to survey the running
> > system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to use
> > but its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly
> > trace every active signal in a system.)
>
> From your description of the target,
> I realized my pair of [Logic Probe plus Logic Pulser] instruments
> would not be enough, when I hit that type of mess.
>
> My fourth google to find out the capabilities of the rockhopper was >
> "Electronic test instrument" "rockhopper". The fifth google was >
> "Electronic test unit" "rockhopper".
> This was the fifth equivalent to a Null result in a row.
>
> What did I miss in trying for the electrical test unit?
>
>
> James Isaac.
>
Huh? Just search for rockhopper and skip the penguin results.  Damn, that 
has exploded into 5 million hits since the last time I did that, 
but "rockhopper for linuxcnc" gets that page as the first hit in our own 
wiki at:

 

The are download from git, and install instructs at the bottom of that 
same page.  Bookmark it recommended.

Stay well James.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] Sourced from: Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[James Isaac]

Hello Gene.

A while back, you said:
> In rare cases you may have to survey the running
> system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to use but
> its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly trace
> every active signal in a system.)

>From your description of the target,
I realized my pair of [Logic Probe plus Logic Pulser] instruments would not be 
enough,
when I hit that type of mess.

My fourth google to find out the capabilities of the rockhopper was > 
"Electronic test instrument" "rockhopper".
The fifth google was > "Electronic test unit" "rockhopper".
This was the fifth equivalent to a Null result in a row.

What did I miss in trying for the electrical test unit?


James Isaac.


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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 07 May 2020 11:27:57 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:
> > I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears to
> > stabilize. It’s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying to chase
> > its tail.
>
> This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in
> response of the object being controlled.
> You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the
> delay. This may be possible by adding
> D to it.
>
> Jon

But my msg was that a near module generated spindle.N.at-speed was never 
to be injected into any signal path leading back to a PID.  That near's 
output s/b only to that input to motion, and possibly to an indicator 
led in the gui so the operator can be advised if its acting funkity.  
Flickering could be worn brushes in a brushed PMDC motor for instance.

What you are describing as delays can often be fixed by the proper 
re-ordering of the addf's involved for the oscillating axis. That aspect 
of configuring LinuxCNC hasn't been mentioned recently or I wouldn't 
even have included that paragraph in my reply.

And from Dan's description above, I think this is an entirely different 
critter from a timeing delay.

Cheers Jon & stay well, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Jon Elson]

On 05/06/2020 09:20 PM, Dan Henderson wrote:

I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is configured.
When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears to stabilize. It’s
almost like it gets caught in a loop trying to chase its tail.


This is VERY common in servo systems, and is due to delay in 
response of the object being controlled.
You need to slow down the response of the PID to ignore the 
delay. This may be possible by adding

D to it.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Emc-users Digest, Vol 169, Issue 40

[Fateh Singh Monder via Emc-users]

Very good read.  Thanks.

Fateh
















 

On Thursday, 7 May, 2020, 5:45:55 pm IST, 
emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net 
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder (Gene Heskett)
  2. Re: Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder (Gene Heskett)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 23:30:19 -0400
From: Gene Heskett 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder
Message-ID: <202005062330.19255.ghesk...@shentel.net>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="utf-8"

On Wednesday 06 May 2020 22:20:12 Dan Henderson wrote:

> I?ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears to
> stabilize. It?s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying to chase
> its tail.

The clues would tend to point in the direction of the output of the 
spindle-at-speed signal somehow getting into the feedback loop to modify 
the feedback value.

Check, and then recheck your hal file for some sort of coupling that's 
probably unintended. Look at otherwise identical modules you've used 
more than one of and make sure the unique marker such as an instance 
number is correct, it could be a classic off by one typu.  Such as that 
will eat your lunch.  In rare cases you may have to survey the running 
system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to use but 
its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly trace 
every active signal in a system.) I'm not a touch typist, never got that 
far in school, and my code is often contaminated with such stuff I have 
to go back and fix. I've had to use rockhopper, several times.  The 
output by the time its printed and pasted/taped up, can occupy a 4x8 
sheet of plywood.  But it also works.

Any "spindle-at-speed" signal you generate, should connect only to motion 
but I've forgotten the exact name of that pin so dbl-check man motion to 
get it right, and nothing else, (except maybe an led in a pyvcp 
generated gui) as motion uses the lack of that signal to hold off the 
initiation of a synchronized move such as a g76 or g33.1 so its not 
started if the spindle just started, generates an index but is not yet 
up to speed.

Because there is an acceleration delay as the axis being moved gets up to 
locked speed, if the spindle is not at a constant speed, this delay will 
vary causeing an offset in the final locked positions, screwing up the 
thread, so LCNC goes out of it way to make sure this signal is also 
true.  For the same reason you can't start a thread slow, see that its 
going to be ok, then grab the rpm slider and crank it up, the diff in 
the accell delay will wreck your thread by causeing an offset between 
the slow pass and the sped up passes.

Good luck with the hunting, Dan.  And stay well. I just read tonight 
there are children that appear to have a different illness from this 
covid19, causeing extremely high fevers, heart attacks and strokes. And 
here I'm worried because I'm in my 86th trip around this star.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 07:10:05 -0400
From: Gene Heskett 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder
Message-ID: <202005070710.05688.ghesk...@shentel.net>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="utf-8"

On Wednesday 06 May 2020 23:30:19 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 06 May 2020 22:20:12 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > I?ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears to
> > stabilize. It?s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying to chase
> > its tail.
>
> The clues would tend to point in the direction of the output of the
> spindle-at-speed signal somehow getting into the feedback loop to
> modify the feedback value.
>
Dan: Be aware if using master, that the syntax has changed, due to new 
multiple spindle control abilities LinuxCNC has grown, it is now 
spindle.N.at-speed, where for you with one spindle, N is 0. And I've 
so

Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i73 keypad question/issue

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Hello Peter,

Sorry for the late reply. Today I executed the commands as you did and it
worked perfectly. All keys showed false and now the keyboard is working
fine.

I really don't know what could've been. Probably my head not working ok
because I'm still trying to get my sleep right after all these days of
quarantine..



El mié., 6 may. 2020 a las 12:18, Peter C. Wallace ()
escribió:

> On Wed, 6 May 2020, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 11:59:28 -0300
> > From: Leonardo Marsaglia 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i73 keypad question/issue
> >
> > Well, the voltages seem to be ok.
>
> Can you duplicate what I did with halcmd (and 7I73 J1 unconnected) and
> post the
> results here?
>
>
> halcmd -fk
> halcmd: loadrt matrix_kb config=8x8
> halcmd: addf matrix_kb.0 servo-thread
> halcmd: net char hm2_[your_card].0.7i73.0.[your_chan].keycode
> matrix_kb.0.keycode
> halcmd: show pin matrix_kb.0
>
>
>
> El miÿÿ., 6 may. 2020 a las 11:04, Peter C. Wallace ()
> escribiÿÿ:
>
> > On Wed, 6 May 2020, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 10:53:07 -0300
> > > From: Leonardo Marsaglia 
> > > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > > 
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i73 keypad question/issue
> > >
> > > Well, with the test component I made to show the codes I can see the
> > codes
> > >varying from 192 thru 240 or something like that. I find strange anyway
> > that at
> > >startup I have a code being shown just like if a key is pressed but
> > without
> > >connecting the cable to the 7i73.
> > >
> > >I'm doubting about flashing the board or not to see if something
> changes.
> > I
> > >now I have the latest firmware but, could It be corrupted or something?
> >
> > Its not likely that flashing would make any difference
> >
> > It might be that an I/O pin has been damaged somehow
> >
> > you might verify (with a voltmeter) that all the KB input pins
> > are high when idle (KEY 8..15 should be high when unconnected)
> >
> >
> > El mi., 6 may. 2020 a las 9:59, andy pugh ()
> > escribi:
> >
> > > On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 13:49, Leonardo Marsaglia  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Indeed, I double checked that but the only params I've got are
> > > > matrix_kb.0.tmax and matrix_kb.0.tmax-increased.
> > >
> > > Ah, yes, the scan-related pins / params only exist when matrix_kb is
> > > configured to actually perform the keyboard scanning.
> > >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > >  George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Peter Wallace
> > Mesa Electronics
> >
> > (\__/)
> > (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> > (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
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Re: [Emc-users] Fluctuating RPM using CUI ATM 10 encoder

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 06 May 2020 23:30:19 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 06 May 2020 22:20:12 Dan Henderson wrote:
> > I’ve confirmed the fluctuation occurs when spindle-at-speed is
> > configured. When I remove this feature, the spindle rpm appears to
> > stabilize. It’s almost like it gets caught in a loop trying to chase
> > its tail.
>
> The clues would tend to point in the direction of the output of the
> spindle-at-speed signal somehow getting into the feedback loop to
> modify the feedback value.
>
Dan: Be aware if using master, that the syntax has changed, due to new 
multiple spindle control abilities LinuxCNC has grown, it is now 
spindle.N.at-speed, where for you with one spindle, N is 0. And I've 
some configs to fix too...

Did you find anything yet?

> Check, and then recheck your hal file for some sort of coupling that's
> probably unintended. Look at otherwise identical modules you've used
> more than one of and make sure the unique marker such as an instance
> number is correct, it could be a classic off by one typu.  Such as
> that will eat your lunch.  In rare cases you may have to survey the
> running system with "rockhopper", (google for it, pain in the butt to
> use but its also very very good at what it does, which is to graphicly
> trace every active signal in a system.) I'm not a touch typist, never
> got that far in school, and my code is often contaminated with such
> stuff I have to go back and fix. I've had to use rockhopper, several
> times.  The output by the time its printed and pasted/taped up, can
> occupy a 4x8 sheet of plywood.  But it also works.
>
> Any "spindle-at-speed" signal you generate, should connect only to
> motion but I've forgotten the exact name of that pin so dbl-check man
> motion to get it right, and nothing else, (except maybe an led in a
> pyvcp generated gui) as motion uses the lack of that signal to hold
> off the initiation of a synchronized move such as a g76 or g33.1 so
> its not started if the spindle just started, generates an index but is
> not yet up to speed.
>
> Because there is an acceleration delay as the axis being moved gets up
> to locked speed, if the spindle is not at a constant speed, this delay
> will vary causeing an offset in the final locked positions, screwing
> up the thread, so LCNC goes out of it way to make sure this signal is
> also true.  For the same reason you can't start a thread slow, see
> that its going to be ok, then grab the rpm slider and crank it up, the
> diff in the accell delay will wreck your thread by causeing an offset
> between the slow pass and the sped up passes.
>
> Good luck with the hunting, Dan.  And stay well. I just read tonight
> there are children that appear to have a different illness from this
> covid19, causeing extremely high fevers, heart attacks and strokes.
> And here I'm worried because I'm in my 86th trip around this star.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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