[Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 06:26, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote: Bone headed error... I am doing a small production run, using three different drills, each mounted in its own tool holder. I had carefully measured the length of each tool and recorded them all in the tool table. I had run about 10 parts, everything was going great, just a few left to go. Then I got distracted and loaded the wrong tool... Unlucky for me, the tool I loaded was much longer than the tool the machine asked for, and the machine happily drove a drill chuck with a #39 drill right into the work. The drill shattered and disappeared in a spray of shrapnel (no one was hit). The jaws of the drill chuck drilled about 0.100 inches down into the work piece (soft aluminum, fortunately). The Z servo finally signaled a following error and e-stopped the machine. The work and the fixture plate absorbed all the damage, the table of the machine is still unmarked. So it could have been worse. But the chuck is completely ruined. It used to be a pretty nice keyless chuck, 1/32 to 1/2 gripping range, J6 taper. Now it's garbage: the body (what I would normally turn to tighten and loosen the jaws) turns very reluctantly, and the jaws don't move at all when i turn it... I got it off the J6 tool holder, and the J6 taper on the tool holder has ~0.001 inches of runout now (measured with a DTI on the taper, while mounted in the spindle and turning slowly). I don't know what the runout was before the crash, and I don't know what's acceptable. Does this seem reasonable, or should I scrap the tool holder too and look for another? My spindle has a QC-30 taper, which is somewhat unusual - tool holders like this can be hard to come by. In either case I need a new drill chuck. The wrecked chuck is of the keyless variety, and while that's convenient I'm considering replacing it with a keyed chuck because they tend to be shorter, and my quill is a bit limited in Z travel. Why do CNC machines usually have keyless chucks? What do you all recommend for a good value on a drill chuck, about 1/32 to 1/2, J6 taper? Keyed or keyless? Help me emc-users, you're my only hope! -- Sebastian Kuzminsky And old thread, but is your spindle like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-CNC-EZ-TRAK-ERICKSON-QC30-30-TAPER-SPINDLE-/150283516254 If so, the taper should be the same as most '30' tapers, ie 7/24. If it is you should be able to adapt an ISO30 or BT30. Regards Roland -- The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel - in partnership with Geeknet, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials, tech docs, whitepapers, evaluation guides, and opinion stories. Check out the most recent posts - join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 31 October 2012 14:02, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote: I have tried hydraulic chucks end mill holders. How do they work? I had imgined that they were based on the SKF Oil-injection idea ( http://www.mapro.skf.com/products/oil_oim.htm ) but looking around the web it appears that they may simply have a cavity round the tool hole with a fairly thin wall and then a screw which pushes hydraulic fluid into the cavity. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:35:35 -0400, you wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution Depends on the collet - ER series close parallel and are perfectly good for milling with. Morse and R8 are very poor at holding anything but the exact size they are made for. Steve Blackmore -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Yes, I emailed Frank at Maritool and he sent me the torque specs for the ER collets. ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs John On 10/30/2012 7:33 PM, Sam wrote: you just need to tighten them correctly. Has anyone actually looked up the torque tightening specs on collets? I think you would be surprised we have collets into the 1.5 to 2 inch range. I don't ever remember any pulling out. John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: I use collets up to 3/4 with heavy cuts and huge fly cutters with no problem. Collets are for milling too. John On 10/30/2012 12:35 PM, jeremy youngs wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 31 October 2012 10:59, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I emailed Frank at Maritool and he sent me the torque specs for the ER collets. ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs Which is all very well, but has anyone ever seen a torque-wrench fitting that can operate a collet nut? Even the (rarer) ones with a hex are tricky, I can find ring and open spanner ends for spigot-style torque wrenches up to 46mm http://www.norbar.com/46mmRingEnd_22mmspigot-RingEnds-TorqueWrenches-54-1-2-1839-product.aspx But that is probably only big enough for an ER25. I guess you could always make your own. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Frank said the collet wrench length for each size should provide the approximate torque needed. I tested the smaller ones I have ER20 which use a hex nut and the wrench is close. I guess if your machining at 10,000rpm with aggressive feed rates maybe collets are not the answer... I would assume you would use shrink fit tooling for something like that not end mill holders with set screws. John On 10/31/2012 6:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 31 October 2012 10:59, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I emailed Frank at Maritool and he sent me the torque specs for the ER collets. ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs Which is all very well, but has anyone ever seen a torque-wrench fitting that can operate a collet nut? Even the (rarer) ones with a hex are tricky, I can find ring and open spanner ends for spigot-style torque wrenches up to 46mm http://www.norbar.com/46mmRingEnd_22mmspigot-RingEnds-TorqueWrenches-54-1-2-1839-product.aspx But that is probably only big enough for an ER25. I guess you could always make your own. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 10/31/2012 07:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs Which is all very well, but has anyone ever seen a torque-wrench fitting that can operate a collet nut? When I saw the ER collet holder torque list, I interpolated to about 45 ft-lbs for ER-20, considered the lengths of my ER-20 wrenches, and determined as hard as you can without hurting yourself. If you wanted to get fancy and make it goof proof, you could make a tool room bench fixture. Drop in the hand tightened ER collet holder, pop a custom ER nut sized square drive adapter onto a click-style torque wrench, and get exact about it. In my hobby and small business machining, I'm going for the sweet spot, where I spend a little (time and money) and get the most in return as possible. For what I'm trying to accomplish, imported low cost quick-change ER collet holders seem to be where I want to be right now. I'm not running three shifts, and trying to hire low paid parts changing monkeys who need idiot-proofed systems. Maybe someday, I'll have a vertical machining center with CAT-40 tooling... but I doubt it. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 31 October 2012 11:44, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: I guess if your machining at 10,000rpm with aggressive feed rates maybe collets are not the answer... I would assume you would use shrink fit tooling for something like tha I thought that, and when I googled yesterday to find out if Shrink fit really was called shrink fit I found this article: http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/high-speed-collet-toolholder-or-shrink-fit-tooling Which seems to prefer collets over shrink-fit.. (admittedly at higher speeds, and presumably smaller sizes than being discussed) Whereas http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/SF_casestudy.htm prefers shrink-fit over collet. I suspect that there might be just as many opinions in the collet v Weldon debate. I don't really feel qualified to opinionate on the matter myself. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
There is one other way of holding end mills that has not been mentioned, and that is a milling chuck. They also use collets, but only for specific shank sizes. Of course, these as well as shrink fit are rather moot for people using R8 or Morse spindles, as they are only available for CAT or BT spindles. Here are a couple of links if interested: http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders-Cat-40-Milling-Chucks/c23_25_102/p620/CAT40-MILLING-CHUCK-ASC1.00-80/product_info.html http://www.maritool.com/Collets-Milling-Chuck-Collets-SC25.4-collets-(1.00-inch)/c21_103_104/p639/SC25.4-.250-Milling-Chuck-Collet/product_info.html -- Ralph From: andy pugh [bodge...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 5:31 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck On 31 October 2012 11:44, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: I guess if your machining at 10,000rpm with aggressive feed rates maybe collets are not the answer... I would assume you would use shrink fit tooling for something like tha I thought that, and when I googled yesterday to find out if Shrink fit really was called shrink fit I found this article: http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/high-speed-collet-toolholder-or-shrink-fit-tooling Which seems to prefer collets over shrink-fit.. (admittedly at higher speeds, and presumably smaller sizes than being discussed) Whereas http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/SF_casestudy.htm prefers shrink-fit over collet. I suspect that there might be just as many opinions in the collet v Weldon debate. I don't really feel qualified to opinionate on the matter myself. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 31.10.12 05:59, John Thornton wrote: Yes, I emailed Frank at Maritool and he sent me the torque specs for the ER collets. ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs ER40 130 ft-lbs according to http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2010/09/28/getting-the-best-performance-from-er-collet-chucks/ The wrench supplied with my ER40 collet chuck is 11 long. I'm not sure I can comfortably put 140 lbs of force onto it using only one hand, so might not need a torque-wrench. Presumably the spanner length is proportional to chuck size, giving smaller chucks similar protection? Following Andy's suggestion, it's not that hard to add a torsion bar, a pointer, and then calibrate with a spring scale or the weight of 40.9 litres of water for 90 lbs at 12 radius, for ER32, for example. Erik -- Never worry about theory as long as the machinery does what it's supposed to do. - Robert A. Heinlein -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
another way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0SX52R-MvY I have tried hydraulic chucks end mill holders. We have a few in the unused tool holder pile. End mills pulled out of them during the cut. The finish was not as good as a regular end mill holder. I have not tried shrink fit. I have not tried the tribos in the video. I almost tried it. The entry fee is high. The tool changer station is expensive. I haven't looked at this for a few years. None of the dealers would allow me to 'test' cut with a few holders. The best I have seen is as follows. This is not high revolution technology but can be very high material removal rate. End mill adapter with the set screw angled at 5 degrees. The 5 degrees is angled to push the end mill deeper into the adapter. The adapter has an adjustable stop to restrain the end mill from pushing farther into the adapter. The tool is then ground with end mill adapter and end mill assembled. We don't do it this way. The two largest private shops in the Wichita area used to do it this way until the owners sold the businesses. I don't know how the shops do it now. They were purchased by large corporations and I lost access to the shops. YMMV -- dos centavos -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 31 October 2012 14:02, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote: another way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0SX52R-MvY I have not tried the tribos in the video. I almost tried it. It seems like you could make your own by over-tightening a three-jaw chuck before boring the hole :-) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 31 October 2012 14:01, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: ER40 130 ft-lbs according to http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2010/09/28/getting-the-best-performance-from-er-collet-chucks/ The wrench supplied with my ER40 collet chuck is 11 long. I'm not sure I can comfortably put 140 lbs of force onto it using only one hand, so might not need a torque-wrench. That is the specified torque, not the maximum torque. I think the point is that you can't get it tight enough with the supplied tool. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
That's odd we are milling all the time at 18K RPM with 200-400ipm with half and 3/4 collets without any problems. (We are cutting wood and MDF.) I have had a lot more problem with 1/4 collets and tools pulling out than with the bigger ones. I have never had a 3/4 tool pull out, half inch in worn collets yes. We are using mostly ER-40 and SYOZ-25 colletted HSK63-F tool holders. You do have to remember that a collet has to be in good condition to work propperly. - Original Message - ok some valid points yes an end mill holder is a hole with a set screw in it. my night job is supervising 25 people and writing programs. I use very high speed machining techniques . I promise that if you spin an endmill in a collet half inch or larger at 10 k rpm and feed it 2-300 in a min you will find the weakness of the collet and that is it will pull out. I never said a collet was not for milling i advised caution when doing so and to use them for smaller items. I have enough experience in this matter to be certain this is good advice fellas :) -- jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Todd Zuercher mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
mdf being the key word there is no long grain structure to pull the tool with i would have to say aluminum or lead is the worst about pulling but i doubt many are milling lead . also you cannot use high speed toolpaths with lead as it will smear -- jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Wednesday 31 October 2012 11:28:22 andy pugh did opine: On 31 October 2012 10:59, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I emailed Frank at Maritool and he sent me the torque specs for the ER collets. ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs Which is all very well, but has anyone ever seen a torque-wrench fitting that can operate a collet nut? Even the (rarer) ones with a hex are tricky, I can find ring and open spanner ends for spigot-style torque wrenches up to 46mm http://www.norbar.com/46mmRingEnd_22mmspigot-RingEnds-TorqueWrenches-54- 1-2-1839-product.aspx But that is probably only big enough for an ER25. I guess you could always make your own. Probably the only way. Most double flatted nuts, at those torque specs, would need the open end adapter to be made thick enough to use every thousandth of the width of the flats for any life before the nut would be rounded over from the OE adapter wedging itself open. A hex nut, and a box end adapter would be much more practical, but I've not seen those for sale ever, just the OE types. I suppose somebody (typical ID10T) warming a chair would assume we could use a deep socket in that event. If the double flats go all the way to the face of the nut, it shouldn't be that difficult to make a custom box end to fit it. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Miguel Cervantes wrote Donkey Hote. Milton wrote Paradise Lost, then his wife died and he wrote Paradise Regained. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 11:18 +, andy pugh wrote: On 31 October 2012 10:59, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I emailed Frank at Maritool and he sent me the torque specs for the ER collets. ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs Which is all very well, but has anyone ever seen a torque-wrench fitting that can operate a collet nut? Even the (rarer) ones with a hex are tricky, I can find ring and open spanner ends for spigot-style torque wrenches up to 46mm http://www.norbar.com/46mmRingEnd_22mmspigot-RingEnds-TorqueWrenches-54-1-2-1839-product.aspx But that is probably only big enough for an ER25. I guess you could always make your own. crows foot? Dave -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
we just made our own... http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/wrench.JPG http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/wrenchscale.JPG sam On 10/31/2012 10:47 AM, dave wrote: On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 11:18 +, andy pugh wrote: On 31 October 2012 10:59, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I emailed Frank at Maritool and he sent me the torque specs for the ER collets. ER 11 20 ft-lbs ER 16 35 ft-lbs ER 25 60 ft-lbs ER 32 90 ft-lbs Which is all very well, but has anyone ever seen a torque-wrench fitting that can operate a collet nut? Even the (rarer) ones with a hex are tricky, I can find ring and open spanner ends for spigot-style torque wrenches up to 46mm http://www.norbar.com/46mmRingEnd_22mmspigot-RingEnds-TorqueWrenches-54-1-2-1839-product.aspx But that is probably only big enough for an ER25. I guess you could always make your own. crows foot? Dave -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 31 October 2012 16:35, sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com wrote: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/wrenchscale.JPG Add strain gauges and an Arduino with LCD display in the middle and you can read out torque directly... -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 16:45 +, andy pugh wrote: On 31 October 2012 16:35, sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com wrote: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/wrenchscale.JPG Add strain gauges and an Arduino with LCD display in the middle and you can read out torque directly... Howsbout: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dgardenfield-keywords=spring+scale -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 10/31/2012 11:56 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 16:45 +, andy pugh wrote: On 31 October 2012 16:35, sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com wrote: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/wrenchscale.JPG Add strain gauges and an Arduino with LCD display in the middle and you can read out torque directly... Howsbout: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dgardenfield-keywords=spring+scale Why all the fancy ways to torque a nut? Simply make a spanner wrench with a 1/2 square hole on the end of the handle, and use a ordinary torque wrench. The only difficulty, is calculating the torque multiplication factor: http://www.freeinfostuff.com/TorqueExtension/TorqueExtension.htm Years ago, I had a special spanner, for rebuilding a Mercruiser outdrive, that came with a sheet of paper to calculate it's torque multiplication. I stamped the formula into the end of the tool, so I wouldn't loose it. I no longer have the tool, but the principle is the same. The one I had looked similar this: http://www.iboats.com/mall/image/vendor/16/bigger/18-9803_big.jpg -- MC Cason - Assocaite Developer - Eagle3D Created by: Matthias Weißer http://www.matwei.de/doku.php?id=en:eagle3d:eagle3d http://developer.berlios.de/projects/eagle3d/ -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:48 PM, MC Cason farmerboy1...@yahoo.com wrote: On 10/31/2012 11:56 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote: Why all the fancy ways to torque a nut? HEH - because we can :) -- dos centavos -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:42:38 +, you wrote: On 31 October 2012 14:01, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: ER40 130 ft-lbs according to http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2010/09/28/getting-the-best-performance-from-er-collet-chucks/ The wrench supplied with my ER40 collet chuck is 11 long. I'm not sure I can comfortably put 140 lbs of force onto it using only one hand, so might not need a torque-wrench. That is the specified torque, not the maximum torque. I think the point is that you can't get it tight enough with the supplied tool. Not sure about an 11 inch long spanner for ER40 - seems small. But I can easily tighten an ER32 on a 20mm (.787inch) end mill in and it wont come loose using the supplied spanner, which is 12 inches long. Specified is 100ft/lbs - I can pull 100lbs, but I'm sure I'm not tightening that much - maybe 80. The chucks I'm used to have bearings in also. Steve Blackmore -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
I don't use a drill chuck on any of my mills, I've been told ER collets are much better and that is what I use. A little googling and it looks like the NMBT30 can be modified to fit the QC30 with the only difference between the 30's is the flange and drive lugs. http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html On my BP with Kwik Switch tooling and the tool changer is subject to being distracted from time to time I have a little rack with numbers and I pull from the rack if there is more than 1 tool change. John On 10/29/2012 11:26 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: Bone headed error... I am doing a small production run, using three different drills, each mounted in its own tool holder. I had carefully measured the length of each tool and recorded them all in the tool table. I had run about 10 parts, everything was going great, just a few left to go. Then I got distracted and loaded the wrong tool... Unlucky for me, the tool I loaded was much longer than the tool the machine asked for, and the machine happily drove a drill chuck with a #39 drill right into the work. The drill shattered and disappeared in a spray of shrapnel (no one was hit). The jaws of the drill chuck drilled about 0.100 inches down into the work piece (soft aluminum, fortunately). The Z servo finally signaled a following error and e-stopped the machine. The work and the fixture plate absorbed all the damage, the table of the machine is still unmarked. So it could have been worse. But the chuck is completely ruined. It used to be a pretty nice keyless chuck, 1/32 to 1/2 gripping range, J6 taper. Now it's garbage: the body (what I would normally turn to tighten and loosen the jaws) turns very reluctantly, and the jaws don't move at all when i turn it... I got it off the J6 tool holder, and the J6 taper on the tool holder has ~0.001 inches of runout now (measured with a DTI on the taper, while mounted in the spindle and turning slowly). I don't know what the runout was before the crash, and I don't know what's acceptable. Does this seem reasonable, or should I scrap the tool holder too and look for another? My spindle has a QC-30 taper, which is somewhat unusual - tool holders like this can be hard to come by. In either case I need a new drill chuck. The wrecked chuck is of the keyless variety, and while that's convenient I'm considering replacing it with a keyed chuck because they tend to be shorter, and my quill is a bit limited in Z travel. Why do CNC machines usually have keyless chucks? What do you all recommend for a good value on a drill chuck, about 1/32 to 1/2, J6 taper? Keyed or keyless? Help me emc-users, you're my only hope! -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 10/29/2012 11:26 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: Bone headed error... I am doing a small production run, using three different drills, each mounted in its own tool holder. I had carefully measured the length of each tool and recorded them all in the tool table. I had run about 10 parts, everything was going great, just a few left to go. Then I got distracted and loaded the wrong tool... Unlucky for me, the tool I loaded was much longer than the tool the machine asked for, and the machine happily drove a drill chuck with a #39 drill right into the work. The drill shattered and disappeared in a spray of shrapnel (no one was hit). The jaws of the drill chuck drilled about 0.100 inches down into the work piece (soft aluminum, fortunately). The Z servo finally signaled a following error and e-stopped the machine. The work and the fixture plate absorbed all the damage, the table of the machine is still unmarked. So it could have been worse. But the chuck is completely ruined. It used to be a pretty nice keyless chuck, 1/32 to 1/2 gripping range, J6 taper. Now it's garbage: the body (what I would normally turn to tighten and loosen the jaws) turns very reluctantly, and the jaws don't move at all when i turn it... I got it off the J6 tool holder, and the J6 taper on the tool holder has ~0.001 inches of runout now (measured with a DTI on the taper, while mounted in the spindle and turning slowly). I don't know what the runout was before the crash, and I don't know what's acceptable. Does this seem reasonable, or should I scrap the tool holder too and look for another? My spindle has a QC-30 taper, which is somewhat unusual - tool holders like this can be hard to come by. In either case I need a new drill chuck. The wrecked chuck is of the keyless variety, and while that's convenient I'm considering replacing it with a keyed chuck because they tend to be shorter, and my quill is a bit limited in Z travel. Why do CNC machines usually have keyless chucks? What do you all recommend for a good value on a drill chuck, about 1/32 to 1/2, J6 taper? Keyed or keyless? Help me emc-users, you're my only hope! The runout is pretty small, and you could be reading the runout of the bearing in the spindle, unless you know for sure that they are good. However, don't toss that keyless chuck just yet, if it's a Jacobs chuck, here's some rebuilding instructions: http://www.jacobschuck.com/pdf/Precision-Chuck-Repair-Instruction.pdf Other mfg's chucks are similar. I've replaced the jaws on a few Jacobs #36 keyed chucks, with very successful results, and it was cheaper than buying a new chuck. -- MC Cason - Assocaite Developer - Eagle3D Created by: Matthias Weißer http://www.matwei.de/doku.php?id=en:eagle3d:eagle3d http://developer.berlios.de/projects/eagle3d/ -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30.10.12 06:15, John Thornton wrote: I don't use a drill chuck on any of my mills, I've been told ER collets are much better and that is what I use. Can't disagree a lot, for milling, anyway. IIRC, it was in a Tormach document that I read a note similar to this: Drill Chucks: Using a drill chuck to hold a tool used for side cutting is dangerous, though educational and often expensive. A Jacobs taper is _not_ designed for lateral loads, so vibration and side loads generally shake the drill chuck off its mount. As the spinning mass dissipates its kinetic energy, the flailing cutting edges shred any flesh or other vulnerable material in its path. Drill chucks are only to be used with axial forces, i.e. drilling. It's now one of my MOTD entries, so once in a while my wetware RAM is refreshed. I'd hate to buy a collet for every drill size I might use. Erik -- Tote Goldfische sind praktische Lesezeichen für Bücher aus der Leihbücherei. Der wachsende Fischgeruch dient als einfache Gedächtnisstütze zur rechtzeitigen Bücherrückgabe! (Snaffled from Christian Brabandt, on Vim ML) = Dead goldfish are practical bookmarks for books from the library. The growing smell serves as a simple memory aid for timely return. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Another reason is collet holders are much shorter than a drill chuck and on Z challenged machines like my BP switching between an end mill holder an a drill chuck is not always a practical thing... but at $200 for a set of collets it will be out of the range of many home shop machinists. I do have a jacobs chuck for my BP but don't use it. John On 10/30/2012 7:31 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 30.10.12 06:15, John Thornton wrote: I don't use a drill chuck on any of my mills, I've been told ER collets are much better and that is what I use. Can't disagree a lot, for milling, anyway. IIRC, it was in a Tormach document that I read a note similar to this: Drill Chucks: Using a drill chuck to hold a tool used for side cutting is dangerous, though educational and often expensive. A Jacobs taper is _not_ designed for lateral loads, so vibration and side loads generally shake the drill chuck off its mount. As the spinning mass dissipates its kinetic energy, the flailing cutting edges shred any flesh or other vulnerable material in its path. Drill chucks are only to be used with axial forces, i.e. drilling. It's now one of my MOTD entries, so once in a while my wetware RAM is refreshed. I'd hate to buy a collet for every drill size I might use. Erik -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 12:31, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: I'd hate to buy a collet for every drill size I might use. A metric set of ER collets fits every possible size in the range. I believe there are a couple of gaps in the Imperial range. I think that ER stands for something like extended range -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 12:42, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: at $200 for a set of collets it will be out of the range of many home shop machinists. You can pay a lot less that that. http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-18/FULL-ER32-COLLET-SET/Detail I am sure that they are at least adequate for drill holding. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30.10.12 07:42, John Thornton wrote: Another reason is collet holders are much shorter than a drill chuck and on Z challenged machines like my BP switching between an end mill holder an a drill chuck is not always a practical thing... but at $200 for a set of collets it will be out of the range of many home shop machinists. I do have a jacobs chuck for my BP but don't use it. Yes, I bought only the abbreviated collet set, covering only the sizes of a boxed set of milling cutters from the same vendor. The full set was just as pricey here as it is there. I have quite a lot of Z, but can always buy individual collets when needed - that keyless drill chuck is very long. Erik -- A consultant is a person who takes your money and annoys your employees while tirelessly searching for the best way to extend the consulting contract. (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle) -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tuesday 30 October 2012 09:50:06 John Thornton did opine: Another reason is collet holders are much shorter than a drill chuck and on Z challenged machines like my BP switching between an end mill holder an a drill chuck is not always a practical thing... but at $200 for a set of collets it will be out of the range of many home shop machinists. I do have a jacobs chuck for my BP but don't use it. John I have similar problems with my little toy mill. The average, I can buy it at Lowes, replacement chuck cannot reliably mount or hold the drills I use which can go as small as #72's. If I ever seriously damage the chinese Horse brand chuck that came with the mill, I'll be out of business for drills under 1/16. And its runout leaves a lot to be desired getting worse. I have to creep up on starting the hole and give it time to self- center, if it will, depends on the work material. copper plated pcb's are usually ok, TSC's grade of steel rod for a BP nipple gets very very pickity needs wholesale qty's of the chosen bit size because that dulls them rapidly. And I've not found anyone who will sell me carbide #68's in ten packs w/o a 3 digit price yet. :( For this sort of work, I seriously need an old 1/4 chuck from a 50 yo electric hand drill, but it still drills holes I hate to tear up something that actually still works after all this time. :) On 10/30/2012 7:31 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 30.10.12 06:15, John Thornton wrote: I don't use a drill chuck on any of my mills, I've been told ER collets are much better and that is what I use. Can't disagree a lot, for milling, anyway. IIRC, it was in a Tormach document that I read a note similar to this: Drill Chucks: Using a drill chuck to hold a tool used for side cutting is dangerous, though educational and often expensive. A Jacobs taper is _not_ designed for lateral loads, so vibration and side loads generally shake the drill chuck off its mount. As the spinning mass dissipates its kinetic energy, the flailing cutting edges shred any flesh or other vulnerable material in its path. Drill chucks are only to be used with axial forces, i.e. drilling. It's now one of my MOTD entries, so once in a while my wetware RAM is refreshed. I'd hate to buy a collet for every drill size I might use. Amen on that! Not to mention that for my #2 morse spindle, collets under 1/8 suddenly are made from unobtainium. Erik -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! doogie joy/elmo: why can't the same ip be used? was this fire so great that it burned the ip address? -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tuesday 30 October 2012 10:15:13 andy pugh did opine: On 30 October 2012 12:42, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: at $200 for a set of collets it will be out of the range of many home shop machinists. You can pay a lot less that that. http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-18/FULL-ER32-COLLET-SET/Detail I am sure that they are at least adequate for drill holding. I'm sure they are, and that is a good price, but they don't go small enough at a 2mm minimum. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all. -- Arthur Balfour -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 10/30/2012 10:12 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: anyone who will sell me carbide #68's in ten packs w/o a 3 digit price yet eBay is my parts tool locker: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-68-Wire-Size-Solid-Carbide-PCB-Print-Circuit-Board-Drill-Bits-/120995129465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1c2bdf2879 OK, OK, it has a *four* digit price, but the decimal point is in the right place for me... [grin] I got good resharp bits from Drill Bit City, but it seems they're going out of business. Their broken website offers a few odd drill sets and a drill resharpening machine for 13 large: https://www.drillbitcity.com/Default.asp -- Ed softsolder.com -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 14:17, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: I'm sure they are, and that is a good price, but they don't go small enough at a 2mm minimum. Well, you wouldn't use ER32 for 2mm. Perhaps ER11? Cheaper, too: http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-13/FULL-ER11-COLLET-SET/Detail (By the way, I have used CTC tools a few times and have no complaints) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
ER8 collets go down to 0.039 but that only makes it down to #61 drill... darn it. I do have one of those pin vise things that mount in a collet and will hold a #80 bit but it is a cheap one. Are you drilling by hand with the #72 bit? John On 10/30/2012 9:12 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 30 October 2012 09:50:06 John Thornton did opine: Another reason is collet holders are much shorter than a drill chuck and on Z challenged machines like my BP switching between an end mill holder an a drill chuck is not always a practical thing... but at $200 for a set of collets it will be out of the range of many home shop machinists. I do have a jacobs chuck for my BP but don't use it. John I have similar problems with my little toy mill. The average, I can buy it at Lowes, replacement chuck cannot reliably mount or hold the drills I use which can go as small as #72's. If I ever seriously damage the chinese Horse brand chuck that came with the mill, I'll be out of business for drills under 1/16. And its runout leaves a lot to be desired getting worse. I have to creep up on starting the hole and give it time to self- center, if it will, depends on the work material. copper plated pcb's are usually ok, TSC's grade of steel rod for a BP nipple gets very very pickity needs wholesale qty's of the chosen bit size because that dulls them rapidly. And I've not found anyone who will sell me carbide #68's in ten packs w/o a 3 digit price yet. :( For this sort of work, I seriously need an old 1/4 chuck from a 50 yo electric hand drill, but it still drills holes I hate to tear up something that actually still works after all this time. :) On 10/30/2012 7:31 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 30.10.12 06:15, John Thornton wrote: I don't use a drill chuck on any of my mills, I've been told ER collets are much better and that is what I use. Can't disagree a lot, for milling, anyway. IIRC, it was in a Tormach document that I read a note similar to this: Drill Chucks: Using a drill chuck to hold a tool used for side cutting is dangerous, though educational and often expensive. A Jacobs taper is _not_ designed for lateral loads, so vibration and side loads generally shake the drill chuck off its mount. As the spinning mass dissipates its kinetic energy, the flailing cutting edges shred any flesh or other vulnerable material in its path. Drill chucks are only to be used with axial forces, i.e. drilling. It's now one of my MOTD entries, so once in a while my wetware RAM is refreshed. I'd hate to buy a collet for every drill size I might use. Amen on that! Not to mention that for my #2 morse spindle, collets under 1/8 suddenly are made from unobtainium. Erik -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tuesday 30 October 2012 10:51:44 Ed Nisley did opine: On 10/30/2012 10:12 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: anyone who will sell me carbide #68's in ten packs w/o a 3 digit price yet eBay is my parts tool locker: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-68-Wire-Size-Solid-Carbide-PCB-Print-C ircuit-Board-Drill-Bits-/120995129465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1c2 bdf2879 OK, OK, it has a *four* digit price, but the decimal point is in the right place for me... [grin] Great, Ed. And 1/8 shanks to boot solves that problem nicely. I'll get a 5 pack of those at that price hope they are sharp. Thanks. I got good resharp bits from Drill Bit City, but it seems they're going out of business. Their broken website offers a few odd drill sets and a drill resharpening machine for 13 large: https://www.drillbitcity.com/Default.asp I saw hints of that the last time I hit there. :( Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! List at least two alternate dates. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tuesday 30 October 2012 10:55:53 andy pugh did opine: On 30 October 2012 14:17, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: I'm sure they are, and that is a good price, but they don't go small enough at a 2mm minimum. Well, you wouldn't use ER32 for 2mm. Perhaps ER11? Cheaper, too: http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-13/FULL-ER11-COLLET-SET/Detail (By the way, I have used CTC tools a few times and have no complaints) That looks better Andy, thanks for the leg work. Can I also buy a #2 morse to ER11 adapter from them? I am not exactly z challenged with my z drive Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! The way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and run. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 14:52, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: ER8 collets go down to 0.039 but that only makes it down to #61 drill... darn it. Don't forget the 0.5mm (0.02) adjustment range. The CTC metric ER11spec says they can grip down to 3/128 -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 14:58, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Can I also buy a #2 morse to ER11 adapter from them? I am not exactly z challenged with my z drive http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-21/ER11-MT2-MK2-COLLET/Detail Or possibly a straight-shank one in a chuck: http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-673/ER11-SHANK-10MM-100MM/Detail (maybe more scope to percussively adjust that to run true.) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tuesday 30 October 2012 10:59:26 John Thornton did opine: ER8 collets go down to 0.039 but that only makes it down to #61 drill... darn it. I do have one of those pin vise things that mount in a collet and will hold a #80 bit but it is a cheap one. Are you drilling by hand with the #72 bit? John No, no way I can hand hold that precisely John. Even running slow short peck cycles these drills don't last at all well in cold rolled steel. And I may have to do SS, steel seems to be pretty easily stained corroded by a #209 primer black substitutes. And actually for that, the smallest would probably be a #68. I put 5 vent holes in a #209 nipple. One in the tip, and 4 around the sides seems to do a decent job. The SS breech plug has about .020 clearance around the stem of the nipple and that gives the ring of fire pattern to the ignition when the side vents are directed forward into the powder. The OEM nipple has 5 #67 vents in the same pattern. But its backside vented doesn't put enough power into a load of BlackHorn-209 to get it going, its damned hard to light stuff. My version has no backside vents. On 10/30/2012 9:12 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 30 October 2012 09:50:06 John Thornton did opine: Another reason is collet holders are much shorter than a drill chuck and on Z challenged machines like my BP switching between an end mill holder an a drill chuck is not always a practical thing... but at $200 for a set of collets it will be out of the range of many home shop machinists. I do have a jacobs chuck for my BP but don't use it. John I have similar problems with my little toy mill. The average, I can buy it at Lowes, replacement chuck cannot reliably mount or hold the drills I use which can go as small as #72's. If I ever seriously damage the chinese Horse brand chuck that came with the mill, I'll be out of business for drills under 1/16. And its runout leaves a lot to be desired getting worse. I have to creep up on starting the hole and give it time to self- center, if it will, depends on the work material. copper plated pcb's are usually ok, TSC's grade of steel rod for a BP nipple gets very very pickity needs wholesale qty's of the chosen bit size because that dulls them rapidly. And I've not found anyone who will sell me carbide #68's in ten packs w/o a 3 digit price yet. :( For this sort of work, I seriously need an old 1/4 chuck from a 50 yo electric hand drill, but it still drills holes I hate to tear up something that actually still works after all this time. :) On 10/30/2012 7:31 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 30.10.12 06:15, John Thornton wrote: I don't use a drill chuck on any of my mills, I've been told ER collets are much better and that is what I use. Can't disagree a lot, for milling, anyway. IIRC, it was in a Tormach document that I read a note similar to this: Drill Chucks: Using a drill chuck to hold a tool used for side cutting is dangerous, though educational and often expensive. A Jacobs taper is _not_ designed for lateral loads, so vibration and side loads generally shake the drill chuck off its mount. As the spinning mass dissipates its kinetic energy, the flailing cutting edges shred any flesh or other vulnerable material in its path. Drill chucks are only to be used with axial forces, i.e. drilling. It's now one of my MOTD entries, so once in a while my wetware RAM is refreshed. I'd hate to buy a collet for every drill size I might use. Amen on that! Not to mention that for my #2 morse spindle, collets under 1/8 suddenly are made from unobtainium. Erik - --- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! The way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and run. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tuesday 30 October 2012 11:18:04 andy pugh did opine: On 30 October 2012 14:58, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Can I also buy a #2 morse to ER11 adapter from them? I am not exactly z challenged with my z drive http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-21/ER11-MT2-MK2-COLLET/Detail Looks good. Good price too. Or possibly a straight-shank one in a chuck: http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-673/ER11-SHANK-10MM-100MM/Detail (maybe more scope to percussively adjust that to run true.) Chuckle, percussively adjust. Neat turn of phrase. Not great on spindle bearings to do so I'd assume. OTOH, I'm pounding their kidneys into their socks now, beating on the drawbar to release the #2 taper. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! The best thing about being bald is, that, when unexpected company arrives, all you have to do is straighten your tie. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Hi all; Just for the record, on my KX1-NU mill, I use ER-16 collets. I made the MT2 adapter, and got a smaller nut from Maritool. So far, despite having about 20 things I can stick in it's MT2 taper, I have not removed the ER-16 holder since it was installed. I DO LIKE the idea of the Tormach Tooling System, as using an equivalent described in Model Engineer back in the '50s for an older lathe I had worked wonders for repeatability. I'm thinking of something similar for my mill, as setting Z-depth all the time gets old fast. John Alexander Stewart. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: I got it off the J6 tool holder, and the J6 taper on the tool holder has ~0.001 inches of runout now (measured with a DTI on the taper, while mounted in the spindle and turning slowly). I don't know what the runout was before the crash, and I don't know what's acceptable. Does this seem reasonable, or should I scrap the tool holder too and look for another? My spindle has a QC-30 taper, which is somewhat unusual - tool holders like this can be hard to come by. Welcome to the world of machining! (and, its downside.) The problem is if there is .001 runout at the jacobs taper, then there will be several times that at the jaws of a mounted drill chuck, and WAY more than that at the tip of some drill bit. What you have is not runout, but wobble, and it will just get worse farther from the spindle. If this was R-8, it wouldn't make sense to even think about replacing the arbor, they are so cheap sellers often throw them in almost for free with a good chuck. So, you could consider trying to re-cut the taper, ON the CNC machine. Use the spindle as a lathe, put a lathe tool in the vise and compute the right taper angle. For .001 TIR, there is only a .0005 eccentricity, so you won't have to take off much material at all. To do it right, you could install a die grinder or other powered spindle in the vise, but to get up to the shoulder you'd need the grinder spindle to be vertical, and you mention limited Z travel (but maybe not limited Z clearance, so this might work). Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
I'm ordering this one: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKDPMPXNO=19506526PMAKA=319-3121 It's slightly shorter and slightly less expensive than the similar Rohm. Thanks for all the advise. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Your experience makes me want to measure the runout on my jacobs taper toolholders. I am very well tooled up with collets and holders, so generally I don't see much reason to use a chuck. However, it can be handy, no doubt On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.comwrote: I'm ordering this one: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKDPMPXNO=19506526PMAKA=319-3121 It's slightly shorter and slightly less expensive than the similar Rohm. Thanks for all the advise. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 10/30/2012 11:54 AM, John Stewart wrote: I DO LIKE the idea of the Tormach Tooling System I just received my YinSheng Manufacturing ER-20 collet holders. They have a .750 shaft on the top and the TTS style ring with rebated top to Z locate on the bottom of the spindle. Essentially, this turns an R8 machine into a TTS machine for repeatable Z height and quick tool changes. The R8 adapter stays in place and the TTS tools drop out the bottom. The YinSheng ER-20 collet holders look very nice. Good surface finish, nice and even black oxide in places. Overall, they have a fairly high quality look to them. Not quite top shelf, but just a little below that. The quality is a pleasant surprise, considering that I paid $157 for ten of these, including three day air mail delivery from China. Collets sold separately. These don't have the groove to hang them in an automated tool changer, and the top of the 3/4 shaft isn't tapered to aid ATC insertion, but either feature could be easily added. Less than $16 each seems like a great deal, considering these usually sell for a little under $60 each. Added Bonus: They're cheaper to replace than a keyless Jacobs chuck when you crash your machine. :-) I'm going to get ten more just as soon as I verify some critical dimensions and measure the runout. They're considerably less expensive than some people's set screw retained end mill holders! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=251139490102 I'm also impressed that I ordered this Saturday at 1:59 AM and they were delivered by DHL on Tuesday, mid morning. My goal is to have every tool that I can in a quick change ER-20 collet holder. I'll have one keyless chuck with a TTS base (en route from Tormach) for the occasional odd size drill bit, but the tools I use most for prototyping and the tools I use for my short run manufacturing will be in an ER-20 collet and programmed into a tool table. Next up... the power draw bar. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution -- jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:35 PM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution -- Gotta love ebay sometimes, I have a pretty complete set of milling collets that have a retention bump for end mills Eric -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
so how do you put ane endmill in them? On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote: On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:35 PM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution -- Gotta love ebay sometimes, I have a pretty complete set of milling collets that have a retention bump for end mills Eric -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 17:35, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet So what _do_ you use? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
an endmill holder of course!!! thats what they are for. I am not a conservative programmer and its really about cubic inches per hour :) but experience has shown that any larger than 3/8 is asking for trouble ( ive found said trouble once or twice :)) On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:09 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 October 2012 17:35, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet So what _do_ you use? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:42 PM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote: so how do you put ane endmill in them? The endmill holder is a captured plug that slides out radially to put the endmill in, and then is held in place by the collet chuck. So you have to take the collet out of the chuck to change endmills. Eric -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
thats pretty neat On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote: On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:42 PM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote: so how do you put ane endmill in them? The endmill holder is a captured plug that slides out radially to put the endmill in, and then is held in place by the collet chuck. So you have to take the collet out of the chuck to change endmills. Eric -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On 30 October 2012 18:15, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote: an endmill holder of course!!! thats what they are for. I confess I am not entirely sure what you mean by that term. (I am not actually a machinist) Are you referring to the ones with a screw in the side? Or something more exotic like Shrink-fit? I have some experience of the Clarkson screw-shanked collets being rather too secure. Mainly in the form of collets with integral tools. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Jeremy; an endmill holder of course!!! thats what they are for. If you mean the ones with the screws on the side for weldon-shanked end mills, they have other issues. By definition, the holes in these holders are larger than the end mill shank. (otherwise you'd never get the end mill in) The screw acts as a pivot point. So, you essentially have an end mill flexing in the holder; leading to wear, and if the end mill is not inserted properly, it *will* walk out as far as the screw will allow, so if you do use these, of course you are going to pull the end mill out by hand as you tighten the screw. The wear will appear as oval on the end of the holder, but it'll be tapered. Think about it - you are shaking that end mill shaft a few thousand times per minute, and there IS play in there. Ok, ok. I gave away my clarkson auto lock chuck because screwed end end mills are not available, while plain shank end mills are a dime a dozen. (that's an expression, not a pricing structure!) For the last 2 decades I have only used top-quality ER collets. My ER-25 set are Regio-Fix (Swiss) with Schaubin (sp?) holder. My 16 and 40 sets were from Maritool - probably paid too much, but as they all just work, with no known issues, so I'm sold. Just make sure that they are clean (I use a bit of aluminum flashing rescued from some house-repair contractors to clean the grooves of the collets). Anyway, I'm no expert, but the above may be something to think about. Will *you* experience wear in these screwed-shank holders? I've absolutely no idea, just keep it in the back of your mind that this can and does happen. Back to your regularly scheduled programme… ;-) John Alexander Stewart. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
On Tue, 2012-10-30 at 16:27 -0400, John Stewart wrote: Jeremy; an endmill holder of course!!! thats what they are for. If you mean the ones with the screws on the side for weldon-shanked end mills, they have other issues. By definition, the holes in these holders are larger than the end mill shank. (otherwise you'd never get the end mill in) The screw acts as a pivot point. So, you essentially have an end mill flexing in the holder; leading to wear, and if the end mill is not inserted properly, it *will* walk out as far as the screw will allow, so if you do use these, of course you are going to pull the end mill out by hand as you tighten the screw. The wear will appear as oval on the end of the holder, but it'll be tapered. Think about it - you are shaking that end mill shaft a few thousand times per minute, and there IS play in there. Ok, ok. I gave away my clarkson auto lock chuck because screwed end end mills are not available, while plain shank end mills are a dime a dozen. (that's an expression, not a pricing structure!) For the last 2 decades I have only used top-quality ER collets. My ER-25 set are Regio-Fix (Swiss) with Schaubin (sp?) holder. My 16 and 40 sets were from Maritool - probably paid too much, but as they all just work, with no known issues, so I'm sold. Just make sure that they are clean (I use a bit of aluminum flashing rescued from some house-repair contractors to clean the grooves of the collets). Anyway, I'm no expert, but the above may be something to think about. Will *you* experience wear in these screwed-shank holders? I've absolutely no idea, just keep it in the back of your mind that this can and does happen. Back to your regularly scheduled programme… ;-) John Alexander Stewart. A lot of the stuff I used to get from Boeing surplus had a whistle notch ground in the shank. While they can some loose they don't do it very often. I regularly use ER20 collets , carefully torquing the nut to 75 ft-lb. They don't seem to come loose even on the Mazak. Dave -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
I use collets up to 3/4 with heavy cuts and huge fly cutters with no problem. Collets are for milling too. John On 10/30/2012 12:35 PM, jeremy youngs wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
you just need to tighten them correctly. Has anyone actually looked up the torque tightening specs on collets? I think you would be surprised we have collets into the 1.5 to 2 inch range. I don't ever remember any pulling out. John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote: I use collets up to 3/4 with heavy cuts and huge fly cutters with no problem. Collets are for milling too. John On 10/30/2012 12:35 PM, jeremy youngs wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Big difference between an R8/5C collet and, say, an ER/TG/DA collet in terms of grip force / mechanical advantage when they are properly torqued. I used to have a handy chart comparing them but can't find it. On 10/30/2012 12:35 PM, jeremy youngs wrote: be wary of milling with a collet, any serious cuts will tend to pull the endmill out ouf the collet. my position is i dont put an endmill larger than 3/8 in a collet they are for drills and reamers. otherwise a very good solution -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
ok some valid points yes an end mill holder is a hole with a set screw in it. my night job is supervising 25 people and writing programs. I use very high speed machining techniques . I promise that if you spin an endmill in a collet half inch or larger at 10 k rpm and feed it 2-300 in a min you will find the weakness of the collet and that is it will pull out. I never said a collet was not for milling i advised caution when doing so and to use them for smaller items. I have enough experience in this matter to be certain this is good advice fellas :) -- jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
Bone headed error... I am doing a small production run, using three different drills, each mounted in its own tool holder. I had carefully measured the length of each tool and recorded them all in the tool table. I had run about 10 parts, everything was going great, just a few left to go. Then I got distracted and loaded the wrong tool... Unlucky for me, the tool I loaded was much longer than the tool the machine asked for, and the machine happily drove a drill chuck with a #39 drill right into the work. The drill shattered and disappeared in a spray of shrapnel (no one was hit). The jaws of the drill chuck drilled about 0.100 inches down into the work piece (soft aluminum, fortunately). The Z servo finally signaled a following error and e-stopped the machine. The work and the fixture plate absorbed all the damage, the table of the machine is still unmarked. So it could have been worse. But the chuck is completely ruined. It used to be a pretty nice keyless chuck, 1/32 to 1/2 gripping range, J6 taper. Now it's garbage: the body (what I would normally turn to tighten and loosen the jaws) turns very reluctantly, and the jaws don't move at all when i turn it... I got it off the J6 tool holder, and the J6 taper on the tool holder has ~0.001 inches of runout now (measured with a DTI on the taper, while mounted in the spindle and turning slowly). I don't know what the runout was before the crash, and I don't know what's acceptable. Does this seem reasonable, or should I scrap the tool holder too and look for another? My spindle has a QC-30 taper, which is somewhat unusual - tool holders like this can be hard to come by. In either case I need a new drill chuck. The wrecked chuck is of the keyless variety, and while that's convenient I'm considering replacing it with a keyed chuck because they tend to be shorter, and my quill is a bit limited in Z travel. Why do CNC machines usually have keyless chucks? What do you all recommend for a good value on a drill chuck, about 1/32 to 1/2, J6 taper? Keyed or keyless? Help me emc-users, you're my only hope! -- Sebastian Kuzminsky -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
normally i use a keyless for the conenience of mounting an indicator and dont use it for machining . i prefe collets to hold my drills. .001 is ok if you are not using less than 1/8 drills not ideal but if you cannot readily replace the holder i wouldnt just pitch it . a collet holder will also help your z clearnce as it is much shorter and you should be able to ebay a keyed jacobs for 25-50 bucks so its not trgic just a bummer jeremy youngs -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck
What a weird coincidence! I'm finally getting around to a CNC retrofit of my milling machine and after buying some nice R8 tooling for manual machining, I decided to go with the Tormach Tooling System for the CNC upgrade. In theory, I can swap the TTS collet out and use my R8 tooling as easily as swapping any other R8 tools, but I'm going all in for the TTS tools and I plan on leaving the R8 to TTS collet in the spindle, so I have some new and nearly new R8 tools that I don't need and was going to sell on eBay. I had just now placed the Tormach order that included a TTS compatible 1/2 keyless chuck. Here's the relevant segment of the post http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/25580-grizzly-g1006-milling-machine-cnc-conversion?start=24#26045 that I just wrapped up for my CNC milling machine build log thread on the LinuxCNC forum: /I took a look at my well made Polish knockoff of an Albrecht keyless chuck. I wanted to tap it out of the R8 to Jacobs taper adapter so I could buy a TTS Jacobs taper adapter and use my nice keyless chuck, but I remember that the chuck fell out of the R8 adapter, even though I thoroughly degreased the mating parts and wasn't using it to hold an endmill or any other tool that generates lateral loads. After that, I epoxied the two parts together. I guess I'll sell it on eBay as a one-piece unit, along with a lot of other nice R8 tooling I bought and used little or not at all before deciding to use TTS style tools in my milling machine after its CNC retrofit. / You may not want the keyless chuck after I epoxied it to the R8 adapter, but it's a nice chuck. I think it's exactly the specifications you mentioned, 1/32 to 1/2, although it mat be 5/8. I'm still impressed that the jaws grab small diameters yet also securely grab large diameters. It has tiny drill capability for such a large chuck. And it's cheap! Make me an offer offline if interested. Include a generous post-crash good karma discount. :-) Take off another 5% for your excellent Star Wars reference. :-) I can measure the runout if you like. I can take some pictures and email them so you aren't buying a pig in a poke. On 10/30/2012 12:26 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: Bone headed error... I am doing a small production run, using three different drills, each mounted in its own tool holder. I had carefully measured the length of each tool and recorded them all in the tool table. I had run about 10 parts, everything was going great, just a few left to go. Then I got distracted and loaded the wrong tool... Unlucky for me, the tool I loaded was much longer than the tool the machine asked for, and the machine happily drove a drill chuck with a #39 drill right into the work. The drill shattered and disappeared in a spray of shrapnel (no one was hit). The jaws of the drill chuck drilled about 0.100 inches down into the work piece (soft aluminum, fortunately). The Z servo finally signaled a following error and e-stopped the machine. The work and the fixture plate absorbed all the damage, the table of the machine is still unmarked. So it could have been worse. But the chuck is completely ruined. It used to be a pretty nice keyless chuck, 1/32 to 1/2 gripping range, J6 taper. Now it's garbage: the body (what I would normally turn to tighten and loosen the jaws) turns very reluctantly, and the jaws don't move at all when i turn it... I got it off the J6 tool holder, and the J6 taper on the tool holder has ~0.001 inches of runout now (measured with a DTI on the taper, while mounted in the spindle and turning slowly). I don't know what the runout was before the crash, and I don't know what's acceptable. Does this seem reasonable, or should I scrap the tool holder too and look for another? My spindle has a QC-30 taper, which is somewhat unusual - tool holders like this can be hard to come by. In either case I need a new drill chuck. The wrecked chuck is of the keyless variety, and while that's convenient I'm considering replacing it with a keyed chuck because they tend to be shorter, and my quill is a bit limited in Z travel. Why do CNC machines usually have keyless chucks? What do you all recommend for a good value on a drill chuck, about 1/32 to 1/2, J6 taper? Keyed or keyless? Help me emc-users, you're my only hope! -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
