Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 July 2016 15:07:34 Ralph Stirling wrote:

In a PM. Please put this stuff on the list where all can see it.

> Thanks, Gene, I found them with that hint.  That is an
> amazingly simple setup you came up with.  That is
> kerosene you are using for the fluid?  No problem with
> catching fire?

In those pix, it was distilled water from the local grocery store. The 
blue maxwell house plastic can however is used k2.  And for this, it 
seem the water does not blacken near a fast as the K2.  I could still 
faintly see the fire when it was over half done.  Less carbon in the 
water I think.

As for the k2, no fire as long as the sparks are under the surface, 
therefore no oxygen, and no fire.  Same when using water but then one 
wouldn't expect the water to burn anyway.  I'll use the used k2 to start 
a disposal file when its next due because we've removed some stuff, like 
we've a row of burning bush in front of the house that is pushing in a 
basement wall with its roots, and I've been threatening to saw off & 
grub it out for about a year now.  Bad back (its 81 yo) and a severe 
shortage of round tuit's keeps getting in the way.  Excuses but thats 
the best I can come up with without lying.

> -- Ralph
> 
> From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 10:29 AM
> To: Ralph Stirling
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?
>
> On Friday 22 July 2016 11:16:27 Ralph Stirling wrote:
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > I'm likely blind, but I don't find any photos of your EDM setup
> > on your webpage, at least the one pointed at by the link in
> > your sig.  Did you get a link to them on that page somewhere?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -- Ralph
>
> They should be there, at the sublink "mill-stuff" starting with the
> 3rd image in the list you should see.  There's a link in the text off
> the front page too.
>
> > ____________________
> > From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 6:13 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?
> >
> > On Thursday 21 July 2016 11:35:54 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Thursday 21 July 2016 09:16:58 Ralph Stirling wrote:
> > > > Perhaps a video would be unnecessary, but some photos
> > > > would sure help us curious folk better visualize your setup.
> > > > It sounds like a very handy system you rigged up, and not
> > > > very difficult.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > I'll take the camera out and shoot a few pix.  And put it up on my
> > > web page this evening if my back allows.  The target of all this
> > > is retaining the function of the crossfeed handle when the screw
> > > and nut have been replaced by a ball screw and hooked up to
> > > linuxcnc, on a 64 yo Sheldon 11x36 lathe.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > I did that, but on importing the pix, intending to put some captions
> > in the pix, I found that wilber's text button on the menu doesn't
> > work.  So I've posted a message on the gimp-user list to see if I
> > have a missing dependency I need to install.
> >
> > So they are on the page, but straight out of the camera.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> >
> > 
> >--  What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network
> > bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which
> > users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth.
> > Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other
> > flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
> > reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo

Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> I did that, but on importing the pix, intending to put some captions in
> the pix, I found that wilber's text button on the menu doesn't work.

That's odd. What exactly are you doing? GIMP changes around Ithe
location and operation of the common tools, so maybe you are just
trying to use it in the old way that no longer works. I have v.2.8.16,
and text tool is either invoked by keyboard key 't' or mouse command
'Tools/Text'.  You then have to click where you want to place the
text, which opens a square 'target' area, and a tool properties
floating window next to it. Then you start typing your text, and it
should start appearing in the 'target' block.

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 21 July 2016 11:35:54 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 21 July 2016 09:16:58 Ralph Stirling wrote:
> > Perhaps a video would be unnecessary, but some photos
> > would sure help us curious folk better visualize your setup.
> > It sounds like a very handy system you rigged up, and not
> > very difficult.
> >
> > Thanks,
>
> I'll take the camera out and shoot a few pix.  And put it up on my web
> page this evening if my back allows.  The target of all this is
> retaining the function of the crossfeed handle when the screw and nut
> have been replaced by a ball screw and hooked up to linuxcnc, on a 64
> yo Sheldon 11x36 lathe.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I did that, but on importing the pix, intending to put some captions in 
the pix, I found that wilber's text button on the menu doesn't work.  So 
I've posted a message on the gimp-user list to see if I have a missing 
dependency I need to install.

So they are on the page, but straight out of the camera.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[TJoseph Powderly]

Jon hello

On 07/21/16 21:32, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 07/21/2016 12:16 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Thursday 21 July 2016 00:00:12 TJoseph Powderly wrote:
>>
>>> Gene
>>> once again your post title ran me off as i took it to be correct
>>> your post is titled  'continuous wire'
>>> not disk, hahahathe rewind was fast
>>> only
>> My bad Tomp, I thought about it, but understood quickly that such a
>> machine was way above my pay grade.  I was wondering if something
>> using just a couple feet of wire, butt welded like a bandsaw blade,
>> might be possible. Or would the wire, flooded for coolant, still burn up
>> rapidly?
>>
>>
> Robert Langlois (wrote a book on EDM that was published by Village
> Press) showed a wire EDM at the old NAMES shows.  He used a molybdenum
> wire that ran back and forth between large rollers.  So, he probably had
> something like 20 feet of wire in the machine, and it reversed when it
> neared either end.  The rate of the wire movement was not very fast,
> maybe a few feet per minute.
I did not know Langlois had a reciprocating wedm.
On these chinese/taiwanese/indian machines only the rewind was fast
the forward rate was slow, as moly has little wear
in normal wedm the feet/min is high to keep the damage to the wire (wear)
spread over a larger length.
>   Jon
thx tomp tjtr33

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 21 July 2016 09:16:58 Ralph Stirling wrote:

> Perhaps a video would be unnecessary, but some photos
> would sure help us curious folk better visualize your setup.
> It sounds like a very handy system you rigged up, and not
> very difficult.
>
> Thanks,

I'll take the camera out and shoot a few pix.  And put it up on my web 
page this evening if my back allows.  The target of all this is 
retaining the function of the crossfeed handle when the screw and nut 
have been replaced by a ball screw and hooked up to linuxcnc, on a 64 yo 
Sheldon 11x36 lathe.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are 
consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, 
J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[TJoseph Powderly]

tungsten moly wire is used for those reciprocating wedm's
not a loop, but unwound slow thru cut, then rapid rewound during a pause
when feed spool is sensed to be low
tiny stuff but tough and re-usable
all tools have pros & cons
this stuff is triangular, tough and hell on guides (carbide pins )
cheap because of tool life
and great with cheap labor that can untangle the break
and rewind it onto the spool ( read Chinese/Indian workers )
or American DIY types ( 0 pay levels ;-)
tjtr33
tomp

On 07/21/16 12:16, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 21 July 2016 00:00:12 TJoseph Powderly wrote:
>
>> Gene
>> once again your post title ran me off as i took it to be correct
>> your post is titled  'continuous wire'
>> not disk, hahaha
>>
> My bad Tomp, I thought about it, but understood quickly that such a
> machine was way above my pay grade.  I was wondering if something
> using just a couple feet of wire, butt welded like a bandsaw blade,
> might be possible. Or would the wire, flooded for coolant, still burn up
> rapidly?
>
> Thanks Tomp.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[andy pugh]

On 21 July 2016 at 15:32, Jon Elson  wrote:

> He used a molybdenum
> wire that ran back and forth between large rollers.  So, he probably had
> something like 20 feet of wire in the machine, and it reversed when it
> neared either end.

I used a diamond-wire saw working on that principle when I was an
electron microscopy student.
Probably one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Well-Diamond-Wire-Saw-model-3241-Walter-Ebner-/171667745233

There is the advantage that you don't need to make a continuous loop
of wire, which would be difficult to do without a thick-spot in the
loop.
IIRC the wire is in a spiral groove in a pulley that advances on a
thread of the same pitch between microswitches.

As an alternative to the thread and spiral (and compatible with a
cintinuous looop)  you could use a sheave system as used on lifts to
store the wire:
http://thediagram.com/14_5/differentmethods.html
See the examples with an idler sheave and traction sheave. Both have
parallel rather than spiral grooves.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Jon Elson]

On 07/21/2016 12:16 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 21 July 2016 00:00:12 TJoseph Powderly wrote:
>
>> Gene
>> once again your post title ran me off as i took it to be correct
>> your post is titled  'continuous wire'
>> not disk, hahaha
>>
> My bad Tomp, I thought about it, but understood quickly that such a
> machine was way above my pay grade.  I was wondering if something
> using just a couple feet of wire, butt welded like a bandsaw blade,
> might be possible. Or would the wire, flooded for coolant, still burn up
> rapidly?
>
>
Robert Langlois (wrote a book on EDM that was published by Village 
Press) showed a wire EDM at the old NAMES shows.  He used a molybdenum 
wire that ran back and forth between large rollers.  So, he probably had 
something like 20 feet of wire in the machine, and it reversed when it 
neared either end.  The rate of the wire movement was not very fast, 
maybe a few feet per minute.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Ralph Stirling]

Perhaps a video would be unnecessary, but some photos
would sure help us curious folk better visualize your setup.
It sounds like a very handy system you rigged up, and not
very difficult.

Thanks,
-- Ralph

From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 4:47 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

On Thursday 21 July 2016 03:05:51 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> sounds great gene
> yes you were 'negative polarity'
> ( in usa the old elox company called this standard )
> brass works fine too, more forgiving
> if the tool gets black you are getting closer to lo wear
> tho low wear for brass is like high wear for graphite
> you're using an rc generator... so dontworryaboutit (james caan)
> everythings relative ;-)
> 1/32 slot? automatic? sweet.
> movies at noon?
> tomp tjtr33

I'd think that would be rather boring after the first 4 or 5 minutes. A
tomato can of k2, enough to cover it, is, by the times its into the cut
by .1", quite black, and in another minute dense enough the sparking is
invisible. And at nominally 40 volts, is hard to hear.  The last time I
did this, I had 80 volts, and with the 10uf cap, its was painfull,
easily heard a couple blocks away. This is so quiet its boring.

So it looks like I'm stirring a can of black, thin paint. I have a dvm
across the current limiting R and try by ticking the feed override up
and down, to maintain about 3/4 amp, but at that feed rate, even the
dampers on the motors are moving so slow you'd not notice them in a
video.  7 to 20 thou a minute.  Feeding both X and Y because its laying
corner to diagonal corner in a square container.

The disk isn't turning black, but is showing that it is wobbling up and
down a thou or 2 as the top has an rough feeling arc pattern over about
50% of its face.  The edge has remained pretty well polished once it had
burned down to holding a continuous arc.

How does distilled water compare to K2 in this sort of a scenario?  I
could source a gallon of that while the glue is setting to put the nut
I'm using for inter angle positioning back on.

Thanks Tomp.


> On 07/21/16 11:51, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 July 2016 22:34:00 TJoseph Powderly wrote:
> >> Hello Gene
> >> Using copper tools to cut steel ( all other variable untouched )
> >> Positive tool is lower wear & slower cut & rougher finish
> >> Negative tool is higher wear & faster cut & finer finish
> >> hth
> >> tomp
> >> tjtr33
> >
> > No copper flashing handy, so I used a thin sheet of brass. I made an
> > arbor to hold a disk, then cut out a 3" disk which I ran against a
> > skate wheel bearing hard on the down face, enough to bend it
> > slightly, then followed the demag procedure and lifted it back off
> > the bearing slowly so it would stop bending at the point  where it
> > ran dead true. But the 1/8" center hole and a 3mm0.5 retainer screw
> > were off center just enough it took an hour to burn the edge
> > concentric, but once that was done I could, for shade tree edm,
> > march it right along at about 30 minutes a slot.  Burn current about
> > 1/2 amp average. I had glued with some si glue, a nut to the far end
> > so I could lay it down on the flat, but the GO2 wasn't fully set, so
> > the K2 screwed the adhesion enough the nut fell off just now. I have
> > one more slot to cut, so I'll see if any of my superglue is usable
> > tomorrow.
> >
> > In resuscitating  my previously built edm power supply, I found I'd
> > put a dpdt switch so I could reverse it, but the way I hooked it up,
> > the dvm said I had + on the workpiece. It seemed to work ok
> > considering the voltage was only in the 30 something range. That
> > would match up with your - on the tool.
> >
> > Thanks Tomp.
> >
> >> http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/66135144/effect-tool-pol
> >>ari
> >> ty-machining-characteristics-electric-discharge-machining-silver-st
> >>eel- statistical-modelling-process
> >
> > I bookmarked this one. good discussion.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network
> bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which
> users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides
> multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make
> informed decisions using capacity planning
> reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> ___
>

Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 21 July 2016 03:05:51 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> sounds great gene
> yes you were 'negative polarity'
> ( in usa the old elox company called this standard )
> brass works fine too, more forgiving
> if the tool gets black you are getting closer to lo wear
> tho low wear for brass is like high wear for graphite
> you're using an rc generator... so dontworryaboutit (james caan)
> everythings relative ;-)
> 1/32 slot? automatic? sweet.
> movies at noon?
> tomp tjtr33

I'd think that would be rather boring after the first 4 or 5 minutes. A 
tomato can of k2, enough to cover it, is, by the times its into the cut 
by .1", quite black, and in another minute dense enough the sparking is 
invisible. And at nominally 40 volts, is hard to hear.  The last time I 
did this, I had 80 volts, and with the 10uf cap, its was painfull, 
easily heard a couple blocks away. This is so quiet its boring.

So it looks like I'm stirring a can of black, thin paint. I have a dvm 
across the current limiting R and try by ticking the feed override up 
and down, to maintain about 3/4 amp, but at that feed rate, even the 
dampers on the motors are moving so slow you'd not notice them in a 
video.  7 to 20 thou a minute.  Feeding both X and Y because its laying 
corner to diagonal corner in a square container.

The disk isn't turning black, but is showing that it is wobbling up and 
down a thou or 2 as the top has an rough feeling arc pattern over about 
50% of its face.  The edge has remained pretty well polished once it had 
burned down to holding a continuous arc.

How does distilled water compare to K2 in this sort of a scenario?  I 
could source a gallon of that while the glue is setting to put the nut 
I'm using for inter angle positioning back on.

Thanks Tomp.


> On 07/21/16 11:51, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 July 2016 22:34:00 TJoseph Powderly wrote:
> >> Hello Gene
> >> Using copper tools to cut steel ( all other variable untouched )
> >> Positive tool is lower wear & slower cut & rougher finish
> >> Negative tool is higher wear & faster cut & finer finish
> >> hth
> >> tomp
> >> tjtr33
> >
> > No copper flashing handy, so I used a thin sheet of brass. I made an
> > arbor to hold a disk, then cut out a 3" disk which I ran against a
> > skate wheel bearing hard on the down face, enough to bend it
> > slightly, then followed the demag procedure and lifted it back off
> > the bearing slowly so it would stop bending at the point  where it
> > ran dead true. But the 1/8" center hole and a 3mm0.5 retainer screw
> > were off center just enough it took an hour to burn the edge
> > concentric, but once that was done I could, for shade tree edm,
> > march it right along at about 30 minutes a slot.  Burn current about
> > 1/2 amp average. I had glued with some si glue, a nut to the far end
> > so I could lay it down on the flat, but the GO2 wasn't fully set, so
> > the K2 screwed the adhesion enough the nut fell off just now. I have
> > one more slot to cut, so I'll see if any of my superglue is usable
> > tomorrow.
> >
> > In resuscitating  my previously built edm power supply, I found I'd
> > put a dpdt switch so I could reverse it, but the way I hooked it up,
> > the dvm said I had + on the workpiece. It seemed to work ok
> > considering the voltage was only in the 30 something range. That
> > would match up with your - on the tool.
> >
> > Thanks Tomp.
> >
> >> http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/66135144/effect-tool-pol
> >>ari
> >> ty-machining-characteristics-electric-discharge-machining-silver-st
> >>eel- statistical-modelling-process
> >
> > I bookmarked this one. good discussion.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network
> bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which
> users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides
> multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make
> informed decisions using capacity planning
> reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are 
consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, 
J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
___
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[TJoseph Powderly]

sounds great gene
yes you were 'negative polarity'
( in usa the old elox company called this standard )
brass works fine too, more forgiving
if the tool gets black you are getting closer to lo wear
tho low wear for brass is like high wear for graphite
you're using an rc generator... so dontworryaboutit (james caan)
everythings relative ;-)
1/32 slot? automatic? sweet.
movies at noon?
tomp tjtr33

On 07/21/16 11:51, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 July 2016 22:34:00 TJoseph Powderly wrote:
>
>> Hello Gene
>> Using copper tools to cut steel ( all other variable untouched )
>> Positive tool is lower wear & slower cut & rougher finish
>> Negative tool is higher wear & faster cut & finer finish
>> hth
>> tomp
>> tjtr33
> No copper flashing handy, so I used a thin sheet of brass. I made an
> arbor to hold a disk, then cut out a 3" disk which I ran against a skate
> wheel bearing hard on the down face, enough to bend it slightly, then
> followed the demag procedure and lifted it back off the bearing slowly
> so it would stop bending at the point  where it ran dead true. But the
> 1/8" center hole and a 3mm0.5 retainer screw were off center just enough
> it took an hour to burn the edge concentric, but once that was done I
> could, for shade tree edm, march it right along at about 30 minutes a
> slot.  Burn current about 1/2 amp average. I had glued with some si
> glue, a nut to the far end so I could lay it down on the flat, but the
> GO2 wasn't fully set, so the K2 screwed the adhesion enough the nut fell
> off just now. I have one more slot to cut, so I'll see if any of my
> superglue is usable tomorrow.
>
> In resuscitating  my previously built edm power supply, I found I'd put a
> dpdt switch so I could reverse it, but the way I hooked it up, the dvm
> said I had + on the workpiece. It seemed to work ok considering the
> voltage was only in the 30 something range. That would match up with
> your - on the tool.
>
> Thanks Tomp.
>
>> http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/66135144/effect-tool-polari
>> ty-machining-characteristics-electric-discharge-machining-silver-steel-
>> statistical-modelling-process
> I bookmarked this one. good discussion.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 21 July 2016 00:00:12 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> Gene
> once again your post title ran me off as i took it to be correct
> your post is titled  'continuous wire'
> not disk, hahaha
>
My bad Tomp, I thought about it, but understood quickly that such a 
machine was way above my pay grade.  I was wondering if something 
using just a couple feet of wire, butt welded like a bandsaw blade, 
might be possible. Or would the wire, flooded for coolant, still burn up 
rapidly?

Thanks Tomp.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 July 2016 22:43:21 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> dont spin too fast
> SFM is pretty low ( compared to regular grinding )
> if too fast you hear the sparking get weak
> (try slower to test quick )
> the spark can get 'blown out' ( as in candle ) if you move too fast
>
This 2.875" disk was turning about 250-300 revs.  Slow enough it wasn't 
throwing K2 all over. I don't think I had a blow out problem. I did run 
the gap down to a short several times but found the head could be horsed 
around to re-open the gap and let it sizzle for a bit.  Then I could 
start feeding it again.

> AGie EDM grinders were used to slot sewing machine carbide plates
> and the wheel was 12"dia and near 120 rpm
> thats was back in 1970 at Union Special ( mfctr )
> my deep mem is not so good ;-(
>
Neither is mine, too many years on the wet ram I believe.

> tomp tjtr33
>
> On 07/21/16 06:35, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 July 2016 14:30:43 dave wrote:
> >> Hi gene,
> >> I may have come in too late: i.e.
> >> Day late and a dollar short. Welcome to the real world.
> >> IIUC you want a slot. EDM and a copper disk should do this
> >> quite nicely. Hope you get something working.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >
> > I should have it in progress in another 15 minutes.  But the disk
> > is .03125" brass I made and arbor for, and in case things are a
> > little warped, I ran it at about 300 and set the edge down of a
> > skate bearing hard enough to just barely bend it, then ran it back
> > up the post very slowly, which should result in it running dead
> > true.  And I can't find the small cap, so the discharge is going to
> > be REAL as the cap is a 10 UF oil filled paper.  Noisy as hell too.
> > So we should be able to see if its going to work yet tonight,
> >
> > Take care Dave.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 July 2016 22:34:00 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> Hello Gene
> Using copper tools to cut steel ( all other variable untouched )
> Positive tool is lower wear & slower cut & rougher finish
> Negative tool is higher wear & faster cut & finer finish
> hth
> tomp
> tjtr33

No copper flashing handy, so I used a thin sheet of brass. I made an 
arbor to hold a disk, then cut out a 3" disk which I ran against a skate 
wheel bearing hard on the down face, enough to bend it slightly, then 
followed the demag procedure and lifted it back off the bearing slowly 
so it would stop bending at the point  where it ran dead true. But the 
1/8" center hole and a 3mm0.5 retainer screw were off center just enough 
it took an hour to burn the edge concentric, but once that was done I 
could, for shade tree edm, march it right along at about 30 minutes a 
slot.  Burn current about 1/2 amp average. I had glued with some si 
glue, a nut to the far end so I could lay it down on the flat, but the 
GO2 wasn't fully set, so the K2 screwed the adhesion enough the nut fell 
off just now. I have one more slot to cut, so I'll see if any of my 
superglue is usable tomorrow.

In resuscitating  my previously built edm power supply, I found I'd put a 
dpdt switch so I could reverse it, but the way I hooked it up, the dvm 
said I had + on the workpiece. It seemed to work ok considering the 
voltage was only in the 30 something range. That would match up with 
your - on the tool.

Thanks Tomp.

> http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/66135144/effect-tool-polari
>ty-machining-characteristics-electric-discharge-machining-silver-steel-
>statistical-modelling-process

I bookmarked this one. good discussion.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[TJoseph Powderly]

Gene
in this vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccYE0ICp5F8
he shows a better pyvcp panel ( and shows he's likely using a parport)
AND hahaha hes using an old AGie 60L generator for power
AND a home-made 'crossbow' wire feed on a stock sinker
( with linuxcnc moving the slides )

got a Polish friend? he's done a boatload of work on this.
the webpage shows a lot more info

Imea & Istema ( edm tooling mfctrs now defunct, bought out by Georg 
Fischer )
both made 'crossbows' to mount on sink edms
the wire moved from left spool to right spool
cutting direction was in YZ plane, the wire tool aligned with X

Andre's setup is more like a coping saw than cross bow

tomp tjtr33

On 07/21/16 06:35, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 July 2016 14:30:43 dave wrote:
>
>> Hi gene,
>> I may have come in too late: i.e.
>> Day late and a dollar short. Welcome to the real world.
>> IIUC you want a slot. EDM and a copper disk should do this
>> quite nicely. Hope you get something working.
>>
>> Dave
> I should have it in progress in another 15 minutes.  But the disk
> is .03125" brass I made and arbor for, and in case things are a little
> warped, I ran it at about 300 and set the edge down of a skate bearing
> hard enough to just barely bend it, then ran it back up the post very
> slowly, which should result in it running dead true.  And I can't find
> the small cap, so the discharge is going to be REAL as the cap is a 10
> UF oil filled paper.  Noisy as hell too. So we should be able to see if
> its going to work yet tonight,
>
> Take care Dave.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[TJoseph Powderly]

Gene
once again your post title ran me off as i took it to be correct
your post is titled  'continuous wire'
not disk, hahaha

if you wanted continuous wire
( reciprocating versus single direction, using capstan windlass rewinder)
then look at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoV8UXtLYmE

Andre has a few linuxcnc videos

the wire is tungsten, it is fed very fast, then REWOUND and the path 
continues
if the wire breaks, it immediately fills the room with a tangle
the machines are cheap ( compared to normal single use wire types ),
the dielectric is milling machine cutting fluid dribbled onto top guide
the wire can be reused a LOT
the machines use a lathe spindle-like feed and rewinder
a cnc coping saw for steel ;-)
tomp
tjtr33

On 07/21/16 06:35, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 July 2016 14:30:43 dave wrote:
>
>> Hi gene,
>> I may have come in too late: i.e.
>> Day late and a dollar short. Welcome to the real world.
>> IIUC you want a slot. EDM and a copper disk should do this
>> quite nicely. Hope you get something working.
>>
>> Dave
> I should have it in progress in another 15 minutes.  But the disk
> is .03125" brass I made and arbor for, and in case things are a little
> warped, I ran it at about 300 and set the edge down of a skate bearing
> hard enough to just barely bend it, then ran it back up the post very
> slowly, which should result in it running dead true.  And I can't find
> the small cap, so the discharge is going to be REAL as the cap is a 10
> UF oil filled paper.  Noisy as hell too. So we should be able to see if
> its going to work yet tonight,
>
> Take care Dave.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[TJoseph Powderly]

dont spin too fast
SFM is pretty low ( compared to regular grinding )
if too fast you hear the sparking get weak
(try slower to test quick )
the spark can get 'blown out' ( as in candle ) if you move too fast

AGie EDM grinders were used to slot sewing machine carbide plates
and the wheel was 12"dia and near 120 rpm
thats was back in 1970 at Union Special ( mfctr )
my deep mem is not so good ;-(

tomp tjtr33

On 07/21/16 06:35, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 July 2016 14:30:43 dave wrote:
>
>> Hi gene,
>> I may have come in too late: i.e.
>> Day late and a dollar short. Welcome to the real world.
>> IIUC you want a slot. EDM and a copper disk should do this
>> quite nicely. Hope you get something working.
>>
>> Dave
> I should have it in progress in another 15 minutes.  But the disk
> is .03125" brass I made and arbor for, and in case things are a little
> warped, I ran it at about 300 and set the edge down of a skate bearing
> hard enough to just barely bend it, then ran it back up the post very
> slowly, which should result in it running dead true.  And I can't find
> the small cap, so the discharge is going to be REAL as the cap is a 10
> UF oil filled paper.  Noisy as hell too. So we should be able to see if
> its going to work yet tonight,
>
> Take care Dave.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[TJoseph Powderly]

Hello Gene
Using copper tools to cut steel ( all other variable untouched )
Positive tool is lower wear & slower cut & rougher finish
Negative tool is higher wear & faster cut & finer finish
hth
tomp
tjtr33

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/66135144/effect-tool-polarity-machining-characteristics-electric-discharge-machining-silver-steel-statistical-modelling-process

http://edmtechman.com/about.cfm?pg=2&chap=8

On 07/21/16 06:27, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 July 2016 14:14:21 andy pugh wrote:
>
>> On 20 July 2016 at 18:29, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>>> I don't have a mill spindle with the torque enough to turn one of
>>> those at a good enough feed rate to keep it cutting clean, and slow
>>> enough it won't burn dull in seconds.
>> You could use the lathe, I suspect.
> But for edm, I can't turn it so the electrode disk is well covered with
> k2.  EDM leaves no burrs to trim off.  Sitting in a dishwasher soap
> packet container is just right for a nearly 3" disk.
>
> So one final Q for the list, whats the best polarity? I don't recall
> reading that on the wikipedia pages, but I'll go look again. No, it
> doesn't make any polarity assumptions, so I guess I'll go get started.
>
> All I am needing now is to make a wire wrapper for the spindle shank,
> ditto the work piece. Strip 2+ inches, spread it in two and wrap the
> disks arbor shank with one, and the part with the other lead.
>
> Thanks and I'll be back later.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 July 2016 14:30:43 dave wrote:

> Hi gene,
> I may have come in too late: i.e.
> Day late and a dollar short. Welcome to the real world.
> IIUC you want a slot. EDM and a copper disk should do this
> quite nicely. Hope you get something working.
>
> Dave

I should have it in progress in another 15 minutes.  But the disk 
is .03125" brass I made and arbor for, and in case things are a little 
warped, I ran it at about 300 and set the edge down of a skate bearing 
hard enough to just barely bend it, then ran it back up the post very 
slowly, which should result in it running dead true.  And I can't find 
the small cap, so the discharge is going to be REAL as the cap is a 10 
UF oil filled paper.  Noisy as hell too. So we should be able to see if 
its going to work yet tonight,

Take care Dave.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 July 2016 14:14:21 andy pugh wrote:

> On 20 July 2016 at 18:29, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > I don't have a mill spindle with the torque enough to turn one of
> > those at a good enough feed rate to keep it cutting clean, and slow
> > enough it won't burn dull in seconds.
>
> You could use the lathe, I suspect.

But for edm, I can't turn it so the electrode disk is well covered with 
k2.  EDM leaves no burrs to trim off.  Sitting in a dishwasher soap 
packet container is just right for a nearly 3" disk.

So one final Q for the list, whats the best polarity? I don't recall 
reading that on the wikipedia pages, but I'll go look again. No, it 
doesn't make any polarity assumptions, so I guess I'll go get started.

All I am needing now is to make a wire wrapper for the spindle shank, 
ditto the work piece. Strip 2+ inches, spread it in two and wrap the 
disks arbor shank with one, and the part with the other lead.

Thanks and I'll be back later.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[dave]

Hi gene,
I may have come in too late: i.e.
Day late and a dollar short. Welcome to the real world.
IIUC you want a slot. EDM and a copper disk should do this
quite nicely. Hope you get something working.

Dave

On 07/20/2016 10:29 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 July 2016 13:12:09 andy pugh wrote:
>
>> On 20 July 2016 at 17:34, Rick Lair  wrote:
 http://www.mcmaster.com/#=13d62q6
>>> Bad link, just goes to Mcmasters main page,
>> Search for "slitting saws" then.
> I don't have a mill spindle with the torque enough to turn one of those
> at a good enough feed rate to keep it cutting clean, and slow enough it
> won't burn dull in seconds.  Thats why I didn't consider it the last
> time this was discussed.
>
> Thanks.  So I am off to inventory what I have, and can use.  For a k2
> container, I have an empty dishwasher packet container, should be plenty
> big enough. And disposable in the burn pit when I'm done, k2 and all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[andy pugh]

On 20 July 2016 at 18:29, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> I don't have a mill spindle with the torque enough to turn one of those
> at a good enough feed rate to keep it cutting clean, and slow enough it
> won't burn dull in seconds.

You could use the lathe, I suspect.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 July 2016 13:12:09 andy pugh wrote:

> On 20 July 2016 at 17:34, Rick Lair  wrote:
> >> http://www.mcmaster.com/#=13d62q6
> >
> > Bad link, just goes to Mcmasters main page,
>
> Search for "slitting saws" then.

I don't have a mill spindle with the torque enough to turn one of those 
at a good enough feed rate to keep it cutting clean, and slow enough it 
won't burn dull in seconds.  Thats why I didn't consider it the last 
time this was discussed.

Thanks.  So I am off to inventory what I have, and can use.  For a k2 
container, I have an empty dishwasher packet container, should be plenty 
big enough. And disposable in the burn pit when I'm done, k2 and all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[andy pugh]

On 20 July 2016 at 17:34, Rick Lair  wrote:

>> http://www.mcmaster.com/#=13d62q6

> Bad link, just goes to Mcmasters main page,

Search for "slitting saws" then.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Rick Lair]

On 07/20/2016 11:52 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 20 July 2016 at 16:41, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> So I am thinking of other ways to do this.
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#=13d62q6
>
Bad link, just goes to Mcmasters main page,

-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[andy pugh]

On 20 July 2016 at 16:41, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> So I am thinking of other ways to do this.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#=13d62q6

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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