Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:32:12 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?



-Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: April-09-21 10:59 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:34:30 -0700
From: John Dammeyer < <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com> jo...@autoartisans.com>
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
< <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" < 
<mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?


From: andy pugh [ <mailto:bodge...@gmail.com> mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]


On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:40, John Dammeyer < <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com> 
jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:


Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I can't 
figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-

16

and -25.  Which one do you have and why?

It's a "16" as it has a 16 k-gate Startan 6 FPGA. The "25" has 25 k-gates.

You can fit a bigger, more complicated, firmware on the 25k one. I am
not sure if any 7i80 firmwares need the 25kgates.

I have the one that I have because that's the one PCW gave me  as a
development sample ;-)

Ah!  Now that makes sense.  Possibly the larger could be used to allow a
non-firmware reprogramming to allow step/dir _or_ pwm/dir on the same two pins.
Right now my MESA 7I92H can't do that while an Ethernet Smooth Stepper with
MACH can.

But that's an apples and oranges comparison from what I understand because of
what happens inside the FPGA on both.

John


You could do this in hal either by using the stepgen as a PDM generator
(assuming the PWM is just filtered to obtain a analog voltage)
or disabling the stepgen and using software PWM (low PWM frequency only)

Thanks for the idea Peter,

In this case it's one of those really cheap 0-10V modules from China.  So IIRC, 
it's a 1kHz PWM.  I'm only able to get 240 Hz at the low end.

How do I set up a software PWM verses step/gen?  The adaptor board I built 
takes the same two pins and routes it out as step/gen and PWM into the little 
module.  The Bergerda Servo drive is where a parameter is selected for one or 
the other since I bring the analog and the step/gen into the drive.


You can look up the pwmgen manual page, Probably for a 1 KHz PWM filter and 
running the pwmgen at the 1 KHz serco thread I would use the software pwmgens 
PDM mode (so 50% is 1 ms on 1 ms off) This also depends on being able to
disable the stepgen so this will only work if the stepgen has a higher number 
than any needed stepgen.

(because you can enable stepgens 0..N not arbitrary stepgens)




DB-25 for step/dir/select/fault and a small green  2 pin connector for 0-10V 
from the module stacked on top.  The connection to the  Break Out Board is just 
those 4 pins.




John

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[John Dammeyer]

 
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: April-09-21 10:59 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?
> 
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:34:30 -0700
> > From: John Dammeyer < <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com> 
> > jo...@autoartisans.com>
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > < <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
> > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" < 
> > <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?
> >
> >> From: andy pugh [ <mailto:bodge...@gmail.com> mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> >
> > On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:40, John Dammeyer < 
> > <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com> jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I 
> > > can't figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-
> 16
> > and -25.  Which one do you have and why?
> >
> > It's a "16" as it has a 16 k-gate Startan 6 FPGA. The "25" has 25 k-gates.
> >
> > You can fit a bigger, more complicated, firmware on the 25k one. I am
> > not sure if any 7i80 firmwares need the 25kgates.
> >
> > I have the one that I have because that's the one PCW gave me  as a
> > development sample ;-)
> >
> >Ah!  Now that makes sense.  Possibly the larger could be used to allow a
> >non-firmware reprogramming to allow step/dir _or_ pwm/dir on the same two 
> >pins.
> >Right now my MESA 7I92H can't do that while an Ethernet Smooth Stepper with
> >MACH can.
> >
> >But that's an apples and oranges comparison from what I understand because of
> >what happens inside the FPGA on both.
> >
> >John
> 
> You could do this in hal either by using the stepgen as a PDM generator
> (assuming the PWM is just filtered to obtain a analog voltage)
> or disabling the stepgen and using software PWM (low PWM frequency only)
Thanks for the idea Peter,
 
In this case it's one of those really cheap 0-10V modules from China.  So IIRC, 
it's a 1kHz PWM.  I'm only able to get 240 Hz at the low end.  
 
How do I set up a software PWM verses step/gen?  The adaptor board I built 
takes the same two pins and routes it out as step/gen and PWM into the little 
module.  The Bergerda Servo drive is where a parameter is selected for one or 
the other since I bring the analog and the step/gen into the drive.  
 
DB-25 for step/dir/select/fault and a small green  2 pin connector for 0-10V 
from the module stacked on top.  The connection to the  Break Out Board is just 
those 4 pins.
 

 

John
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:34:30 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?


From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]


On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:40, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I can't 
figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-16
and -25.  Which one do you have and why?

It's a "16" as it has a 16 k-gate Startan 6 FPGA. The "25" has 25 k-gates.

You can fit a bigger, more complicated, firmware on the 25k one. I am
not sure if any 7i80 firmwares need the 25kgates.

I have the one that I have because that's the one PCW gave me  as a
development sample ;-)

Ah!  Now that makes sense.  Possibly the larger could be used to allow a 
non-firmware reprogramming to allow step/dir _or_ pwm/dir on the same two pins. 
Right now my MESA 7I92H can't do that while an Ethernet Smooth Stepper with 
MACH can. 

But that's an apples and oranges comparison from what I understand because of 
what happens inside the FPGA on both. 


John


You could do this in hal either by using the stepgen as a PDM generator
(assuming the PWM is just filtered to obtain a analog voltage)
or disabling the stepgen and using software PWM (low PWM frequency only)

The issue is not FPGA resources, but rather the overall architecture differences

Besides you could simply re-write the firmware for each machine automatically
(it would take a while to wear out the 100K write cycle life flash chip even if 
done 10 times a day or so)





--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> 
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:40, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I 
> > can't figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-16
> and -25.  Which one do you have and why?
> 
> It's a "16" as it has a 16 k-gate Startan 6 FPGA. The "25" has 25 k-gates.
> 
> You can fit a bigger, more complicated, firmware on the 25k one. I am
> not sure if any 7i80 firmwares need the 25kgates.
> 
> I have the one that I have because that's the one PCW gave me  as a
> development sample ;-)

Ah!  Now that makes sense.  Possibly the larger could be used to allow a 
non-firmware reprogramming to allow step/dir _or_ pwm/dir on the same two pins. 
 Right now my MESA 7I92H can't do that while an Ethernet Smooth Stepper with 
MACH can.  

But that's an apples and oranges comparison from what I understand because of 
what happens inside the FPGA on both.  

John



> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:40, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I can't 
> figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-16 and -25.  Which one 
> do you have and why?

It's a "16" as it has a 16 k-gate Startan 6 FPGA. The "25" has 25 k-gates.

You can fit a bigger, more complicated, firmware on the 25k one. I am
not sure if any 7i80 firmwares need the 25kgates.

I have the one that I have because that's the one PCW gave me  as a
development sample ;-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: April-09-21 2:47 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?
> 
> On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 at 19:51, Billy Huddleston  wrote:
> 
> > Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi for LAN 
> > connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA
> Card)
When one looks at the BeeLink store on Amazon with all the varieties of Intel, 
AMD processors how does one ever decide which processor is the fastest?
> 
> Having both on my desk in front of me I noticed that the Beelink +
> 7i80 make a nice pairing as far as size goes.
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/AJqm1qGFafQEMoF46
> 
Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I can't 
figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-16 and -25.  Which one do 
you have and why?

John

> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 at 19:51, Billy Huddleston  wrote:

> Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi for LAN 
> connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)

Having both on my desk in front of me I noticed that the Beelink +
7i80 make a nice pairing as far as size goes.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AJqm1qGFafQEMoF46

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

The only way that can work with this mill is if Linux (or another OS) can give 
the VM 100% exclusive access to a serial port. NO interruptions at all, not 
even just a look-see to check the port status. Any communications interruptions 
and it stops dead.


On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 7:29:20 PM MDT, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:  
 
 For MS-DOS, use a virtual machine under Linux.  Oracle's "Virtualbox" will
run DOS 6.  Virtualbox is free.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 4:43 PM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I'm looking for something like that which can run MS-DOS and has a
> contiguous 64K upper memory region free or four 16K regions free to work
> with LIM EMS 4.0. The problem I run into with newer hardware is the UMA is
> so chunked up with areas reserved for all the built in peripherals, and
> disabling them in BIOS usually doesn't free up space in the UMA.
> My old ProLight 2000 mill uses old DOS software that only works with EMS
> as a place to load gcode. The software must predate the 80386 and they
> didn't want to be one of the few programs using the extended memory
> capabilities of the 80286, or use something like DOS4GW or another 3rd
> party "DOS Extender" to access additional RAM. I've run it off a laptop
> booted from a USB 1.44M floppy. Have to use the gcode file splitter utility
> that's with the mill software to chunk it into pieces that fit into low
> memory after DOS and the PLM2000 software take their parts. The splitter
> puts a command at the end of each chunk to load the next chunk.  
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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Carl Giles via Emc-users]

I have had a 6CD duplicator at my church act up. 2dvd drives wouldn't work and 
it would freeze up after about a half hour of run time. Like your shop a church 
gets damp during the week. I sprayed all the contacts with DeOxit spray from 
Parts Express. I try to get contact cleaner that leaves a slight film of light 
oil behind to protect the contact area from oxygen. That duplicator has been 
working now for longer than it worked from new. I had wondered if it would work 
without capacitively loading down a processor running at 2 to 3 Ghz. It did for 
me.

On March 31, 2021 12:50:16 PM UTC, Les Newell  wrote:
>I'm a big fan of the Dell Wyse thin clients. They are available in
>large 
>quantities on the second hand market. They are fanless, low power and 
>bulletproof. I've killed several PCs in machines over the years, mainly
>
>due to the fact that my workshop is a bit damp. I've never killed a 
>Wyse. The 5020 (AKA Dx0Q) works well. Try to make sure you get the SSD 
>when you buy one. They use an odd sized short bare board SATA SSD.
>Older 
>Sandisk 64GB SSDs use this board inside a standard sized housing. It's 
>easy enough to open the housing and pull the board out. Some come with 
>built in wifi.
>If you want a bit more grunt the 5070 is now hitting the second hand 
>market. They use a SATA M.2 drive.
>
>I have the Dx0D model in my lathe and router. They work but are a
>little 
>under powered. My network server is a Dx0Q borged out with 3x2TB NVME, 
>1x6TB SATA hard drive and 1x6TB USB hard drive. It easily saturates
>it's 
>1Gb Ethernet but the whole setup including a VDSL router only pulls 25W
>
>at idle (drives spun down).
>
>The only down side I find is that they only have one Ethernet port. I 
>generally use a USB wifi dongle to access my network. On later versions
>
>of Debian/Ubuntu you also need to partition the drive manually. 
>Automatic partitioning installs a UEFI partition and locks the drive to
>
>the computer. It then won't boot if you move the drive to another
>machine.
>
>Les
>
>On 29/03/2021 19:30, Billy Huddleston wrote:
>> Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've 
>> put together a new system.
>>
>> Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi 
>> for LAN connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)
>>
>> Or perhaps a Intel NUC?  Anyone have suggestions?  What's everyone 
>> using these days?
>>
>> Thanks, Billy
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Chris Albertson]

For MS-DOS, use a virtual machine under Linux.  Oracle's "Virtualbox" will
run DOS 6.  Virtualbox is free.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 4:43 PM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I'm looking for something like that which can run MS-DOS and has a
> contiguous 64K upper memory region free or four 16K regions free to work
> with LIM EMS 4.0. The problem I run into with newer hardware is the UMA is
> so chunked up with areas reserved for all the built in peripherals, and
> disabling them in BIOS usually doesn't free up space in the UMA.
> My old ProLight 2000 mill uses old DOS software that only works with EMS
> as a place to load gcode. The software must predate the 80386 and they
> didn't want to be one of the few programs using the extended memory
> capabilities of the 80286, or use something like DOS4GW or another 3rd
> party "DOS Extender" to access additional RAM. I've run it off a laptop
> booted from a USB 1.44M floppy. Have to use the gcode file splitter utility
> that's with the mill software to chunk it into pieces that fit into low
> memory after DOS and the PLM2000 software take their parts. The splitter
> puts a command at the end of each chunk to load the next chunk.
>


Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I'm looking for something like that which can run MS-DOS and has a contiguous 
64K upper memory region free or four 16K regions free to work with LIM EMS 4.0. 
The problem I run into with newer hardware is the UMA is so chunked up with 
areas reserved for all the built in peripherals, and disabling them in BIOS 
usually doesn't free up space in the UMA.
My old ProLight 2000 mill uses old DOS software that only works with EMS as a 
place to load gcode. The software must predate the 80386 and they didn't want 
to be one of the few programs using the extended memory capabilities of the 
80286, or use something like DOS4GW or another 3rd party "DOS Extender" to 
access additional RAM. I've run it off a laptop booted from a USB 1.44M floppy. 
Have to use the gcode file splitter utility that's with the mill software to 
chunk it into pieces that fit into low memory after DOS and the PLM2000 
software take their parts. The splitter puts a command at the end of each chunk 
to load the next chunk.

I have all the technical info and some setup/configuration software for the 
Animatics servo controller but nobody is interested in adding support to LCNC. 
Basically it streams gcode out by serial and listens for ack and things like 
hitting an end stop, monitoring the position encoders, and things that will 
cause it to stop the machine such as detecting too much torque on the spindle 
or servos. Curiously it is not equipped with spindle RPM sense, it just assumes 
it's running at the commanded RPM.
What would be very nice is to be able to dump gcode into however much onboard 
RAM is in the Animatics controller then connect a repeat cycle button to the 
mill. Wouldn't be able to do very complicated things but it would be ideal for 
simpler jobs like drilling a few holes in a lot of identical parts.

The controller can do it but the feature was never utilized by ProLight and 
Intellitek completely ignored the model 2000, apparently just sold them until 
running out of inventory. Windows software was made for the stepper motor model 
1000 but not the servo motor 2000.

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 7:09:06 AM MDT, Les Newell 
 wrote:  
 
 I'm a big fan of the Dell Wyse thin clients. They are available in large 
quantities on the second hand market. They are fanless, low power and 
bulletproof. I've killed several PCs in machines over the years, mainly 
due to the fact that my workshop is a bit damp. I've never killed a 
Wyse. The 5020 (AKA Dx0Q) works well. Try to make sure you get the SSD 
when you buy one. They use an odd sized short bare board SATA SSD. Older 
Sandisk 64GB SSDs use this board inside a standard sized housing. It's 
easy enough to open the housing and pull the board out. Some come with 
built in wifi.
If you want a bit more grunt the 5070 is now hitting the second hand 
market. They use a SATA M.2 drive.

I have the Dx0D model in my lathe and router. They work but are a little 
under powered. My network server is a Dx0Q borged out with 3x2TB NVME, 
1x6TB SATA hard drive and 1x6TB USB hard drive. It easily saturates it's 
1Gb Ethernet but the whole setup including a VDSL router only pulls 25W 
at idle (drives spun down).

The only down side I find is that they only have one Ethernet port. I 
generally use a USB wifi dongle to access my network. On later versions 
of Debian/Ubuntu you also need to partition the drive manually. 
Automatic partitioning installs a UEFI partition and locks the drive to 
the computer. It then won't boot if you move the drive to another machine.

Les  
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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Dave Cole]

Chris,
How many 3 1/2" drive bays do these have?

A lot of the HP PCs were very well made.   I've worked on some that have 
been running industrial software for 10+ years non stop running Windows 
XP and they are just now dying.    One plant I was at bought a bunch of 
refurbs just to use as spares running the same Windows XP based 
software!   Updating the software is very expensive compared to the 
hardware, so they just bought a large amount of hardware to swap out 
over the next 10 years or so.    By the time all of the hardware dies, 
most of them will be retired!


I suspect this is fairly common in mature manufacturing plants.



On 3/30/2021 1:31 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:51 AM Martin Dobbins  wrote:


Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've put

together a new system.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5


But for $50 more Newegg will sell you a much more powerful complete
computer.
www.newegg.com/hp-elite-8200-...


I buy these and keep the Windows installation but move it into a virtual
machine that runs under Linux.   So if I ever do need Windows I can run it
inside a VM.  These machines are powerful enough to do that well enough.
   The price is low enough that it's not worth buying parts.




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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Les Newell]

I'm a big fan of the Dell Wyse thin clients. They are available in large 
quantities on the second hand market. They are fanless, low power and 
bulletproof. I've killed several PCs in machines over the years, mainly 
due to the fact that my workshop is a bit damp. I've never killed a 
Wyse. The 5020 (AKA Dx0Q) works well. Try to make sure you get the SSD 
when you buy one. They use an odd sized short bare board SATA SSD. Older 
Sandisk 64GB SSDs use this board inside a standard sized housing. It's 
easy enough to open the housing and pull the board out. Some come with 
built in wifi.
If you want a bit more grunt the 5070 is now hitting the second hand 
market. They use a SATA M.2 drive.


I have the Dx0D model in my lathe and router. They work but are a little 
under powered. My network server is a Dx0Q borged out with 3x2TB NVME, 
1x6TB SATA hard drive and 1x6TB USB hard drive. It easily saturates it's 
1Gb Ethernet but the whole setup including a VDSL router only pulls 25W 
at idle (drives spun down).


The only down side I find is that they only have one Ethernet port. I 
generally use a USB wifi dongle to access my network. On later versions 
of Debian/Ubuntu you also need to partition the drive manually. 
Automatic partitioning installs a UEFI partition and locks the drive to 
the computer. It then won't boot if you move the drive to another machine.


Les

On 29/03/2021 19:30, Billy Huddleston wrote:
Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've 
put together a new system.


Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi 
for LAN connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)


Or perhaps a Intel NUC?  Anyone have suggestions?  What's everyone 
using these days?


Thanks, Billy





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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

HP Elite SFF boards with 3 or 4 expansion slots are pretty popular as upgrades 
for other BTX systems that are in mini, mid, or full towers. Usually requires 
taking a saw to the IO area because most BTX systems don't use the removable IO 
plate like ATX. It's popular enough that one can buy ready made ATX to Elite 
power supply adapter cables. I have a couple of circa 2008 mpc boxes I've been 
thinking about doing this to but the Elite boards + power adapter cable get a 
bit pricey.
 
I just spent some coin building an all new (except the video card, a GTX 1050) 
desktop. Ryzen 5 3600, 32 gig DDR4, Crucial P2 PCIe x4 1 terabyte MVME SSD. I 
also put in the 4 1TB hard drives internally. External storage is all USB 3. 
One 4TB, one 6TB, three 3TB. Just picked up an 8TB Seagate Ironwolf for $100. 
SMART report says total lifetime writes is only 17.26TB in 9974 power on hours. 
The report shows the system it came from had three of this same drive so I'm 
assuming it was in a RAID5 array.

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 11:33:03 AM MDT, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:  
 
 On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:51 AM Martin Dobbins  wrote:

> >Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've put
> together a new system.
>
> >https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5


But for $50 more Newegg will sell you a much more powerful complete
computer.
www.newegg.com/hp-elite-8200-...


I buy these and keep the Windows installation but move it into a virtual
machine that runs under Linux.  So if I ever do need Windows I can run it
inside a VM.  These machines are powerful enough to do that well enough.
  The price is low enough that it's not worth buying parts.  
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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:51 AM Martin Dobbins  wrote:

> >Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've put
> together a new system.
>
> >https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5


But for $50 more Newegg will sell you a much more powerful complete
computer.
www.newegg.com/hp-elite-8200-...


I buy these and keep the Windows installation but move it into a virtual
machine that runs under Linux.   So if I ever do need Windows I can run it
inside a VM.  These machines are powerful enough to do that well enough.
  The price is low enough that it's not worth buying parts.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Martin Dobbins]

>Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've put 
>together a new system.

>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5

Hi Billy,

The problem with off the shelf stuff like that or NUCs that come preloaded with 
an operating system is that they come with a lot of preloaded junk too.  This 
can be a pain and sap performance, not a problem if you know how to get rid of 
all that and start "clean"

I put together a system with this ( a lot more spendy than when I bought it!)

https://www.newegg.com/asrock-q1900b-itx-mini-itx/p/N82E16813157497

It has a parallel port so it could (?) feed a 7i90HD it also has a pcie slot 
(unusable if you cram it into a small case like I did)
I added a small ssd and ram and used on chip graphics.

case:
https://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure

I've been using this with parallel port only for around 5 years, and it hasn't 
missed a beat.

Martin







On 03/29/2021 07:48 PM, Billy Huddleston wrote:
For really small, like a 7" cube, you can get mini ITX
motherboards and a matching cabinet and power supply from
the usual outfits like NewEgg, etc.  The 7" cube box allows
full-height PCI cards.

If you can handle something a little bigger, you can get
off-lease Dell SFF (Small Form Factor) or Mini-Tower
computers from the Optiplex (commercial) line quite cheap.
Put in a small SSD and it makes a quite good machine
controller.  I've been using the Optiplexes for years with
excellent results.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 03:01, Jon Elson  wrote:
>
> On 03/29/2021 07:48 PM, Billy Huddleston wrote:
> For really small, like a 7" cube, you can get mini ITX
> motherboards and a matching cabinet and power supply from
> the usual outfits like NewEgg, etc.  The 7" cube box allows
> full-height PCI cards.

The Beelink originally linked to would be dwarfed by the 7" cube, it
is 4.6 x 4.6 x 1.0 inches.

It works perfectly adequately with LinuxCNC and  an Ethernet board[1],
but clearly does not have space for PCI expansion.

[1] I have one on my desk , and used it as my test machine for the
current installer. [2]
[2] As I have said already, but there was no indication that anyone
saw the reply.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 March 2021 21:59:11 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/29/2021 07:48 PM, Billy Huddleston wrote:
> For really small, like a 7" cube, you can get mini ITX
> motherboards and a matching cabinet and power supply from
> the usual outfits like NewEgg, etc.  The 7" cube box allows
> full-height PCI cards.
>
> If you can handle something a little bigger, you can get
> off-lease Dell SFF (Small Form Factor) or Mini-Tower
> computers from the Optiplex (commercial) line quite cheap.
> Put in a small SSD and it makes a quite good machine
> controller.  I've been using the Optiplexes for years with
> excellent results.
>
> Jon
>
I'll second the Optiplex. The later i5 powered ones are giving me very 
low latency-test results, typically 3.5 u-secs, where lower is better. 
Solid, dependable and fast, and you don't have to pick any 2, its all in 
one relatively heavy box.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Jon Elson]

On 03/29/2021 07:48 PM, Billy Huddleston wrote:
For really small, like a 7" cube, you can get mini ITX 
motherboards and a matching cabinet and power supply from 
the usual outfits like NewEgg, etc.  The 7" cube box allows 
full-height PCI cards.


If you can handle something a little bigger, you can get 
off-lease Dell SFF (Small Form Factor) or Mini-Tower 
computers from the Optiplex (commercial) line quite cheap.  
Put in a small SSD and it makes a quite good machine 
controller.  I've been using the Optiplexes for years with 
excellent results.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Billy Huddleston]

The one from Amazon uses a M.2 SATA SSD..  Not a SD Card..

On 3/29/21 8:33 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

For about the same price you get a real-PC that is much faster that uses an
SSD rather than a memory card for storage.   It is still pretty small
https://www.newegg.com/compaq-6200-student-home-office/p/1VK-001E-3WR47

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 11:51 AM Billy Huddleston  wrote:


Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've put
together a new system.

Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi for
LAN connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)

Or perhaps a Intel NUC?  Anyone have suggestions?

--
Billy Huddleston Inner Vision

*William Huddleston
Inner Vision Development*
Office: 865.560.2752
Fax: 865.560.2703

http://www.ivdc.com 
*Development and Consulting... Simplified.*

 
 


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Chris Albertson]

For about the same price you get a real-PC that is much faster that uses an
SSD rather than a memory card for storage.   It is still pretty small
https://www.newegg.com/compaq-6200-student-home-office/p/1VK-001E-3WR47

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 11:51 AM Billy Huddleston  wrote:

> Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've put
> together a new system.
>
> Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi for
> LAN connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)
>
> Or perhaps a Intel NUC?  Anyone have suggestions?

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 March 2021 18:42:00 Billy Huddleston wrote:

> Doesn't have to be the size of a Rpi4. One about the size I posted, or
> a NUC is fine.  I'm even fine with something a bit larger.  I was just
> wondering what was the nominal choice these days. Also, this is for a
> friend, so, I don't want to muck around with a Rpi4 right now.  Need
> it as simple as possible.
>
> Thanks, Billy
>
> On 3/29/21 6:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 29 March 2021 14:30:19 Billy Huddleston wrote:
> >> Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've
> >> put together a new system.
> >>
> >> Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi
> >> for LAN connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)
> >>
> >> Or perhaps a Intel NUC?  Anyone have suggestions?  What's everyone
> >> using these days?
> >>
> >> Thanks, Billy
> >
I just had one of my ark boxes die, it was about 10 years old.  So I went 
to PCLiquidaters and bought a 4 pack of old Dells with 4 core i5's rated 
at 3HGz. With 4GB of dram, and bare hard drives, about $150 a copy. Big, 
I'm having fun fitting them where the shoeboxes were but quicker than 
stink.  And being Dells, about 20 lbs heavier than the ark shoeboxes. 

Installed on bare 240GB SSD drives with our latest iso from linuxcnc.org, 
they just work to whatever interface was there before as I just copied 
the /home/me/linuxcnc directory contents from the old drive to the new 
install, then switched the /etc/atp/sources.d/linuxcnc.list file from 
the 2.8.1 repo to the buildbot and reloaded master.  You can do that 
last anytime. 2.8.1 runs well and is stable.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Billy Huddleston]

Doesn't have to be the size of a Rpi4. One about the size I posted, or a NUC is fine.  I'm even fine with something a bit larger.  I was just wondering what was the nominal choice 
these days. Also, this is for a friend, so, I don't want to muck around with a Rpi4 right now.  Need it as simple as possible.


Thanks, Billy

On 3/29/21 6:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 29 March 2021 14:30:19 Billy Huddleston wrote:


Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've
put together a new system.

Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi
for LAN connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)

Or perhaps a Intel NUC?  Anyone have suggestions?  What's everyone
using these days?

Thanks, Billy

I am running an 11x54 Sheldon with a rpi4 with 2 gigs of dram, a mesa
7i90HD and a trio of 7i42TA's. Plus a spinx-1 to run the vfd controlling
an old old 1 horse 3 phase motor. Using a kernel I built.

I also have a couple SSD's on the pi4's usb3 ports, and am running my own
version of a buildbot but its not automatic, rebuilding master on the
pi, for the pi, whenever a git pull generates a mail telling me there's
been a commit to master. 5 to 10 builds a week. To see that code, goto
the link in my sig, then add buildbot-repo to the address line.  Its
complex, read the README which contains a blow by blow of what you have
to do to a stock armhf raspbian buster iso installed on a 64GB u-sd
card. You can get the kernel I'm running, plus the uspace, armhf
versions of linuxcnc I built earlier today there.

Have fun Billy, although you might need some aspirin too.

Cheers, Gene Heskett

--
Billy Huddleston Inner Vision

*William Huddleston
Inner Vision Development*
Office: 865.560.2752
Fax: 865.560.2703

http://www.ivdc.com 
*Development and Consulting... Simplified.*

 
 


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 March 2021 14:30:19 Billy Huddleston wrote:

> Looking for a small form factor PC to use.  Been a while since I've
> put together a new system.
>
> Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5  (Has WiFi
> for LAN connection and onboard Ethernet for the MESA Card)
>
> Or perhaps a Intel NUC?  Anyone have suggestions?  What's everyone
> using these days?
>
> Thanks, Billy

I am running an 11x54 Sheldon with a rpi4 with 2 gigs of dram, a mesa 
7i90HD and a trio of 7i42TA's. Plus a spinx-1 to run the vfd controlling 
an old old 1 horse 3 phase motor. Using a kernel I built.

I also have a couple SSD's on the pi4's usb3 ports, and am running my own 
version of a buildbot but its not automatic, rebuilding master on the 
pi, for the pi, whenever a git pull generates a mail telling me there's 
been a commit to master. 5 to 10 builds a week. To see that code, goto 
the link in my sig, then add buildbot-repo to the address line.  Its 
complex, read the README which contains a blow by blow of what you have 
to do to a stock armhf raspbian buster iso installed on a 64GB u-sd 
card. You can get the kernel I'm running, plus the uspace, armhf 
versions of linuxcnc I built earlier today there.

Have fun Billy, although you might need some aspirin too.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 at 19:51, Billy Huddleston  wrote:

> Contemplating this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085RZDVL5

I have one of the previous model, it works perfectly adequately.
In fact I bought it specifically to test the LinuxCNC installer on
UEFI hadware, so I am pretty confident that LinuxCNC will install on
it.

I did have some trouble with the WiFi system, but I seem to have got
it working now.
(On the wired network, use Synaptic to install network-manager and
nm-tray. That seemed to "just work" in ways that wicd just didn't.
I _might_ have had to follow the instructions in this post, but that
might also have been unnecessary:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?p=1589492#p1589492 )

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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