Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Peter Homann wrote: > Hi Lester, > > The DigiSpeed-GX board contains an isolated 5V to 15V dc/dc converter. It > accepts a PWM signal and converts it to an isolated DC control voltage > suitable for Asian DC motor controllers, and VFDs. > > http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=21 Yes Peter - in which case one could just use a C1G and a DigiSpeed board rather than the C11G which was being discussed. Actually that IS a smaller, tidier solution - just requires ordering from multiple suppliers :( > Cheers, > > Peter. > > Lester Caine wrote: >> Kirk Wallace wrote: >>> On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 21:07 +, Lester Caine wrote: Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: >> Geert De Pecker wrote: >>> I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC >>> ... snip > How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf Check out page 7. The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills is at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit of the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the pot, but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further it would go. The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a +5V to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced with a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. >>> Thanks for the information. Does that mean there is a high common mode >>> voltage (AC or DC) on the two pins next to the DC converter? Is the >>> motor controller like the speed controllers for universal motors, or Do >>> you have any keywords to search on the type of motor controller this is? >> YES - basically controllers that only have a control pot on the machine are >> likely not to be isolated from the main supply, and that is the reason this >> little isolated control was provided. Controllers that actually have a 0 to >> 10V DC input are more than likely not to require additional isolation as the >> controls are already earthed (and in which case the isolated +12 can be >> dropped altogether - just provide an earthed +12V). It is just the motor >> controllers that do not provide an 'official' DC control voltage that need >> care. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Hi Lester, The DigiSpeed-GX board contains an isolated 5V to 15V dc/dc converter. It accepts a PWM signal and converts it to an isolated DC control voltage suitable for Asian DC motor controllers, and VFDs. http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=21 Cheers, Peter. Lester Caine wrote: > Kirk Wallace wrote: >> On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 21:07 +, Lester Caine wrote: >>> Kirk Wallace wrote: On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: > Geert De Pecker wrote: >> I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC >> ... snip How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. >>> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf >>> Check out page 7. >>> The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills >>> is >>> at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit >>> of >>> the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the >>> pot, >>> but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further >>> it >>> would go. >>> >>> The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a >>> +5V >>> to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced >>> with >>> a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. >> Thanks for the information. Does that mean there is a high common mode >> voltage (AC or DC) on the two pins next to the DC converter? Is the >> motor controller like the speed controllers for universal motors, or Do >> you have any keywords to search on the type of motor controller this is? > > YES - basically controllers that only have a control pot on the machine are > likely not to be isolated from the main supply, and that is the reason this > little isolated control was provided. Controllers that actually have a 0 to > 10V DC input are more than likely not to require additional isolation as the > controls are already earthed (and in which case the isolated +12 can be > dropped altogether - just provide an earthed +12V). It is just the motor > controllers that do not provide an 'official' DC control voltage that need > care. > -- -- Web: www.homanndesigns.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 421 601 665 www.homanndesigns.com/ModIO.html - Modbus Interface Unit www.homanndesigns.com/DigiSpeedDeal.html - DC Spindle control www.homanndesigns.com/TurboTaig.html - Taig Mill Upgrade board - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Lester, I first tried to get the required 12V from the kbic, but as this is only provided for with a zener (according to the schematics), it dropped to 6V as soon as the C11 board was connected. So bad option. As in the meantime the 5V-12V dc converter arrived (indeed from Farnell), I used that one to provide the 12V. Works like a charm. Thanks for the hint. Regards, Geert Lester Caine wrote: > Geert De Pecker wrote: >> I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC >> board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look >> out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to >> find some room to put this one in :-) > Don't need much space - this fits neatly on the end of the board > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/78477.pdf > It's a pity that there is not a space for it actually on the board. > >> Lester Caine wrote: >>> Geert De Pecker wrote: Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. >>> You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC >>> converter >>> to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. >>> Sounds as if you are nearly there though. > > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Just had word from Arturo, maker of the C11 board that the fequency for full voltage is set to be 25KHz. Will need to investigate why I get nice results with 400Hz... Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 23:18 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: >> Same here, but then again, the 400 Hz is the maximum needed to get the >> full analog voltage. So no problem here. >> >> The C11 board really needs a frequency, the pulse width is of very >> little influence on the voltage. >> > ... snip > > It is frequency, sort of. For 10Hz a short pulse comes out every 100ms. > For 100Hz, every 10ms and so on up to 10kHz. > You get this: > __-__-_ , ___-___-___-_ , _-_-_-_- > Instead of: > __-__-- , __--__--__--_ , _-_-_-_- > > Just because you have something that works doesn't mean it can't be > broken :) > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:19:49 -0600 Jon Elson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dave Engvall wrote: > > If anyone wants to etch a disc I can probably find an 30 mL or so > > of KPR. > > > KPR is abominable to work with. I have DuPont Riston dry film > photoresist. I have laminated it onto .005" and .003" brass > shim stock with my dry film laminator machine. It has heated > Silicone-coated rollers that press the film onto the substrate. > I have to shim the bottom side with cardboard as the machine > was set for .062" PC board material. > > I make two mirror-image films on my photoplotter and align them > on a light box before wrapping them around the laminated shim > stock, then expose, develop and etch like a PC board. I still > get some undercutting, my ferric chloride may be worn out. > > I've been using this to make solder paste stencils for SMT > circuit boards, but one could make an encoder with similar > technology. > > > Jon I've been using photo transfer with a laser printer and a bath of Hydrogen Peroxide and Muriatic Acid (28% Hydrochloric Acid) I don't know if it will resolve the lines fine enough but it does fly turd size resistor pads ok. Here's a link http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 21:07 +, Lester Caine wrote: >> Kirk Wallace wrote: >>> On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: Geert De Pecker wrote: > I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC > ... snip >>> How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. >> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf >> Check out page 7. >> The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills >> is >> at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit >> of >> the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the >> pot, >> but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further >> it >> would go. >> >> The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a >> +5V >> to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced >> with >> a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. > > Thanks for the information. Does that mean there is a high common mode > voltage (AC or DC) on the two pins next to the DC converter? Is the > motor controller like the speed controllers for universal motors, or Do > you have any keywords to search on the type of motor controller this is? YES - basically controllers that only have a control pot on the machine are likely not to be isolated from the main supply, and that is the reason this little isolated control was provided. Controllers that actually have a 0 to 10V DC input are more than likely not to require additional isolation as the controls are already earthed (and in which case the isolated +12 can be dropped altogether - just provide an earthed +12V). It is just the motor controllers that do not provide an 'official' DC control voltage that need care. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday 26 December 2007, Dave Engvall wrote: > >>Hi Jon, >> >>Riston sounds like better stuff and easier to use. I think one gets >>sharper etching if the etchant is pumped over the foil. > > > Many years ago, we had a DEA spray etcher at the tv station where I got > started back in the early 60's. You could write notes in the 10x10 boxes of > the gfx background we used to do our layouts on, and which got reduced 4x > before the board was exposed. With that etcher, it was a 3 to 5 minute job > as it sprayed both sides of the board at the same time, and you could still > read the notes very clearly in the copper when done. I have never rocked a > pyrex cake pan and got anywhere near that sort of precision results since. > Right, I built my own spray etcher years ago, with a pump machined all out of Plexiglas. I used a DC motor on top, which had a vertical shaft down through the etchant to drive the pump, so there were no rotating seals. I discovered that FeCl2 would turn nylon screws brittle with a 2 minute exposure and the heads would start popping off! it had a lot of problems, mostly getting the etchant hot. I eventually pulled a complete and working Kepro spray etcher out of the dumpster at work. Just one little dab of JB Weld on a leaky spot and it works beautifully. it has a heater in a Titanium tube in the bottom. I put a couple bricks in it to reduce the volume of etchant required to fill the sump. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wednesday 26 December 2007, Dave Engvall wrote: >Hi Jon, > >Riston sounds like better stuff and easier to use. I think one gets >sharper etching if the etchant is pumped over the foil. Many years ago, we had a DEA spray etcher at the tv station where I got started back in the early 60's. You could write notes in the 10x10 boxes of the gfx background we used to do our layouts on, and which got reduced 4x before the board was exposed. With that etcher, it was a 3 to 5 minute job as it sprayed both sides of the board at the same time, and you could still read the notes very clearly in the copper when done. I have never rocked a pyrex cake pan and got anywhere near that sort of precision results since. >I guess I'm pretty casual about solvents having worked with benzene >above the permissible limit for several weeks each year. Anytime you >can smell benzene you are above the 8 hour limit. We used benzene for >an extractant in the analysis of alpha and beta acids in hops (the >bittering component). After years of using benzene the procedure >changed to toluene which is about 10 times less toxic. If these and >other chemicals were as dangerous as some people think I would have >been dead long ago. I think I'm still here. ;-) I know the feeling, Dave. I have litterally swam in both pcb's and 2-4-t's of various formulations back in the 50's through the later 70's. Now 73, with sugar, and that seems to be the major effect, all that other stuff is a question to me. About the only thing I've tried to steer clear of is methyl chloride since it can write a fini to your liver & kidneys if abused. >Dave > >On Dec 25, 2007, at 9:22 PM, Jon Elson wrote: >> Kirk Wallace wrote: >>> KPR? >>> >>> Kentucky Paranormal Research >>> Kawartha Pine Ridge District Public School Board >> >> Kodak Photo Resist, a Xylene-based organic photo resist that is >> hardened by exposure to UV light. It is very "old school" and >> not only requires nasty chemicals, but is quite fragile. The >> aqueous-based developer for Riston photo resist is washing soda, >> and the stripper is a weak lye solution, I get both on my hands >> without harm. >> >> Jon >> >> -- >> --- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >- >This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ >___ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) When you say that you agree to a thing in principle, you mean that you have not the slightest intention of carrying it out in practice. -- Otto Von Bismarck - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 23:18 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > Same here, but then again, the 400 Hz is the maximum needed to get the > full analog voltage. So no problem here. > > The C11 board really needs a frequency, the pulse width is of very > little influence on the voltage. > ... snip It is frequency, sort of. For 10Hz a short pulse comes out every 100ms. For 100Hz, every 10ms and so on up to 10kHz. You get this: __-__-_ , ___-___-___-_ , _-_-_-_- Instead of: __-__-- , __--__--__--_ , _-_-_-_- Just because you have something that works doesn't mean it can't be broken :) -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Same here, but then again, the 400 Hz is the maximum needed to get the full analog voltage. So no problem here. The C11 board really needs a frequency, the pulse width is of very little influence on the voltage. >>> Geert >> I checked the siggen setup on my test system and 480Hz was the highest >> frequency I could get. Running in the base thread seems to be the only >> way to get a decent frequency out. Well, now I know. > > I tried a pwmgen setup using the PDM mode, which I guess isn't really a > mode but a setting. Apparently, pwmgen mixes both PWM and PDM in the > same signal. The man page indicates that for pwmgen.N.pwm-freq "A value > of zero produces Pulse Density Modulation instead of Pulse Width > Modulation". I found that for my settings a 50% input produced the > highest frequency of 10kHz before the pulses started running together. > For the C11, I don't know if it would interpret a short on pulse with a > long off time the same as a frequency with equal on and off periods. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Lester, This is indeed a solution. Thanks for the link. Lester Caine wrote: > http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf > Check out page 7. > The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills > is > at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit > of > the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the > pot, > but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further it > would go. > > The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a +5V > to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced with > a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 12:28 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 20:21 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > > Kirk, > > > > > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, ... snip > > > if I had enough money, I'd be rich. > > > > > > > At 400Hz I get the max voltage out of the analog voltage part. So this > > is ok. I'll try with stepgen just to know if this works. > > > > Geert > > I checked the siggen setup on my test system and 480Hz was the highest > frequency I could get. Running in the base thread seems to be the only > way to get a decent frequency out. Well, now I know. I tried a pwmgen setup using the PDM mode, which I guess isn't really a mode but a setting. Apparently, pwmgen mixes both PWM and PDM in the same signal. The man page indicates that for pwmgen.N.pwm-freq "A value of zero produces Pulse Density Modulation instead of Pulse Width Modulation". I found that for my settings a 50% input produced the highest frequency of 10kHz before the pulses started running together. For the C11, I don't know if it would interpret a short on pulse with a long off time the same as a frequency with equal on and off periods. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 21:07 +, Lester Caine wrote: > Kirk Wallace wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: > >> Geert De Pecker wrote: > >>> I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC ... snip > > How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. > > http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf > Check out page 7. > The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills > is > at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit > of > the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the > pot, > but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further it > would go. > > The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a +5V > to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced with > a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. Thanks for the information. Does that mean there is a high common mode voltage (AC or DC) on the two pins next to the DC converter? Is the motor controller like the speed controllers for universal motors, or Do you have any keywords to search on the type of motor controller this is? -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: >> Geert De Pecker wrote: >>> I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC >>> board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look >>> out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to >>> find some room to put this one in :-) >> Don't need much space - this fits neatly on the end of the board >> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/78477.pdf >> It's a pity that there is not a space for it actually on the board. > > Lester, > > I don't have one of these boards, so I am just being curious. Is this > DC-DC module intended to fill the +12V supply requirement or is it in > addition to? This is were it goes: > > http://cnc4pc.com/images/C11R3_5.jpg > > ? > > How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf Check out page 7. The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills is at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit of the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the pot, but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further it would go. The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a +5V to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced with a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 20:21 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > Kirk, > > > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, > > one CNC side +5V @ 2A and One CNC side +12V @ 300mA. I would think if > > you have satisfied these specifications, you should be okay. 12V should > > have enough headroom to regulate to 10 V and the VFD should only draw a > > few milliamperes at worst. Ops I forgot, you are going into the Sherline > > speed control, so I don't know what it draws. It shouldn't be drawing > > much anyway. You may want to make sure you are getting at least 22kHz > > We need a separate supply: the analog voltage controller on the C11 is > isolated from the other circuitry because in the case of the sherline, > the speed control voltage is connected to the live mains. > > > (24kHz - ~10%) into the C11. You could setup HALscope to look at the > > siggen output and count the rising edges over a time period. If you are > > running siggen in the servo thread, my guess is that, you will only get > > into the 2kHz range. With my DAC project, I have just run into "FP > > needed" errors and computer lockups while trying to run HAL components > > in the base thread, so I need to learn more about what will run in the > > base thread. pwmgen will, but I don't know enough to guess at how to > > make it act like a variable frequency pulse generator. Another thought > > comes to mind. If you are only getting 2kHz out of siggen then maybe you > > could step up the frequency with a PLL. I have never used a PLL, but I > > think this is what they are supposed to do. Ideally, it would be nice to > > have a pulse generator HAL component. With the proper knowledge, I > > suppose it would not be too difficult to make, but that is like saying, > > if I had enough money, I'd be rich. > > > > At 400Hz I get the max voltage out of the analog voltage part. So this > is ok. I'll try with stepgen just to know if this works. > > Geert I checked the siggen setup on my test system and 480Hz was the highest frequency I could get. Running in the base thread seems to be the only way to get a decent frequency out. Well, now I know. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk, > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, > one CNC side +5V @ 2A and One CNC side +12V @ 300mA. I would think if > you have satisfied these specifications, you should be okay. 12V should > have enough headroom to regulate to 10 V and the VFD should only draw a > few milliamperes at worst. Ops I forgot, you are going into the Sherline > speed control, so I don't know what it draws. It shouldn't be drawing > much anyway. You may want to make sure you are getting at least 22kHz We need a separate supply: the analog voltage controller on the C11 is isolated from the other circuitry because in the case of the sherline, the speed control voltage is connected to the live mains. > (24kHz - ~10%) into the C11. You could setup HALscope to look at the > siggen output and count the rising edges over a time period. If you are > running siggen in the servo thread, my guess is that, you will only get > into the 2kHz range. With my DAC project, I have just run into "FP > needed" errors and computer lockups while trying to run HAL components > in the base thread, so I need to learn more about what will run in the > base thread. pwmgen will, but I don't know enough to guess at how to > make it act like a variable frequency pulse generator. Another thought > comes to mind. If you are only getting 2kHz out of siggen then maybe you > could step up the frequency with a PLL. I have never used a PLL, but I > think this is what they are supposed to do. Ideally, it would be nice to > have a pulse generator HAL component. With the proper knowledge, I > suppose it would not be too difficult to make, but that is like saying, > if I had enough money, I'd be rich. > At 400Hz I get the max voltage out of the analog voltage part. So this is ok. I'll try with stepgen just to know if this works. Geert - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: > Geert De Pecker wrote: > > I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC > > board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look > > out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to > > find some room to put this one in :-) > Don't need much space - this fits neatly on the end of the board > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/78477.pdf > It's a pity that there is not a space for it actually on the board. Lester, I don't have one of these boards, so I am just being curious. Is this DC-DC module intended to fill the +12V supply requirement or is it in addition to? This is were it goes: http://cnc4pc.com/images/C11R3_5.jpg ? How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Hi Jon, Riston sounds like better stuff and easier to use. I think one gets sharper etching if the etchant is pumped over the foil. I guess I'm pretty casual about solvents having worked with benzene above the permissible limit for several weeks each year. Anytime you can smell benzene you are above the 8 hour limit. We used benzene for an extractant in the analysis of alpha and beta acids in hops (the bittering component). After years of using benzene the procedure changed to toluene which is about 10 times less toxic. If these and other chemicals were as dangerous as some people think I would have been dead long ago. I think I'm still here. ;-) Dave On Dec 25, 2007, at 9:22 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > Kirk Wallace wrote: >> KPR? >> >> Kentucky Paranormal Research >> Kawartha Pine Ridge District Public School Board > Kodak Photo Resist, a Xylene-based organic photo resist that is > hardened by exposure to UV light. It is very "old school" and > not only requires nasty chemicals, but is quite fragile. The > aqueous-based developer for Riston photo resist is washing soda, > and the stripper is a weak lye solution, I get both on my hands > without harm. > > Jon > > -- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Geert De Pecker wrote: > I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC > board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look > out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to > find some room to put this one in :-) Don't need much space - this fits neatly on the end of the board http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/78477.pdf It's a pity that there is not a space for it actually on the board. > Lester Caine wrote: >> Geert De Pecker wrote: >>> Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max >>> input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer >>> and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to >>> the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see >>> what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. >>> >>> Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. >> You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC >> converter >> to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. >> Sounds as if you are nearly there though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 11:04 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC > board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look > out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to > find some room to put this one in :-) > > Lester Caine wrote: > > Geert De Pecker wrote: > >> Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max > >> input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer > >> and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to > >> the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see > >> what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. > >> > >> Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle > >> speed. > > > > You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC > > converter > > to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. > > Sounds as if you are nearly there though. > > > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, one CNC side +5V @ 2A and One CNC side +12V @ 300mA. I would think if you have satisfied these specifications, you should be okay. 12V should have enough headroom to regulate to 10 V and the VFD should only draw a few milliamperes at worst. Ops I forgot, you are going into the Sherline speed control, so I don't know what it draws. It shouldn't be drawing much anyway. You may want to make sure you are getting at least 22kHz (24kHz - ~10%) into the C11. You could setup HALscope to look at the siggen output and count the rising edges over a time period. If you are running siggen in the servo thread, my guess is that, you will only get into the 2kHz range. With my DAC project, I have just run into "FP needed" errors and computer lockups while trying to run HAL components in the base thread, so I need to learn more about what will run in the base thread. pwmgen will, but I don't know enough to guess at how to make it act like a variable frequency pulse generator. Another thought comes to mind. If you are only getting 2kHz out of siggen then maybe you could step up the frequency with a PLL. I have never used a PLL, but I think this is what they are supposed to do. Ideally, it would be nice to have a pulse generator HAL component. With the proper knowledge, I suppose it would not be too difficult to make, but that is like saying, if I had enough money, I'd be rich. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
I'm thinking of a 100 line encoder. Wouldn't require too much resolution. Tested from the rhino cad program and output seems very acceptable. But I assume for more then 200 line, it could be worse. Geert ben lipkowitz wrote: > On Mon, 24 Dec 2007, Geert De Pecker wrote: > >> To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the >> development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself >> (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html). > > Geert, >There are some .ps files floating around that can be used to print your > own optical encoders, and since postscript is a programming language they > are relatively easily modified to do weird stuff such as in > http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps > > however i find postscript can be hard to understand sometimes, so i > rewrote it in python: > http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/draw_encoder.py > > hope this proves useful to someone >-fenn > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to find some room to put this one in :-) Lester Caine wrote: > Geert De Pecker wrote: >> Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max >> input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer >> and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to >> the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see >> what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. >> >> Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. > > You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC > converter > to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. > Sounds as if you are nearly there though. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk Wallace wrote: > KPR? > > Kentucky Paranormal Research > Kawartha Pine Ridge District Public School Board Kodak Photo Resist, a Xylene-based organic photo resist that is hardened by exposure to UV light. It is very "old school" and not only requires nasty chemicals, but is quite fragile. The aqueous-based developer for Riston photo resist is washing soda, and the stripper is a weak lye solution, I get both on my hands without harm. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Dave Engvall wrote: > If anyone wants to etch a disc I can probably find an 30 mL or so of > KPR. > KPR is abominable to work with. I have DuPont Riston dry film photoresist. I have laminated it onto .005" and .003" brass shim stock with my dry film laminator machine. It has heated Silicone-coated rollers that press the film onto the substrate. I have to shim the bottom side with cardboard as the machine was set for .062" PC board material. I make two mirror-image films on my photoplotter and align them on a light box before wrapping them around the laminated shim stock, then expose, develop and etch like a PC board. I still get some undercutting, my ferric chloride may be worn out. I've been using this to make solder paste stencils for SMT circuit boards, but one could make an encoder with similar technology. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Good try. KPR is a photoresist made by Kodak. It is good enough to do wafers. It needs reasonably energetic UV to polymerize and then toluene to dissolve off the non-polymerized part for etching. D On Dec 25, 2007, at 4:15 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: > KPR? > > Kentucky Paranormal Research > Kawartha Pine Ridge District Public School Board > > On Tue, 2007-12-25 at 15:42 -0800, Dave Engvall wrote: >> If anyone wants to etch a disc I can probably find an 30 mL or so of >> KPR. >> >> For best resolution make a 4X image and then photoreduce 4X on to >> film and use that to expose the >> KPR. It makes beautiful circuit boards that way. >> >> Dave > > Another thought that comes to mind is that, when I was looking into > making my own encoders, my design used a disk and two masks. The masks > were a portion of the disk placed one half line width apart on the > disk, > such that one or the other went black at half line intervals. This > allows you to have a large sensing area, and average out disk image > errors. This doesn't account for the index though. I guess you would > need a separate short lined section and another mask. > > -- > Kirk Wallace (California, USA > http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ > Hardinge HNC lathe, > Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, > Zubal lathe conversion pending) > > > -- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
KPR? Kentucky Paranormal Research Kawartha Pine Ridge District Public School Board On Tue, 2007-12-25 at 15:42 -0800, Dave Engvall wrote: > If anyone wants to etch a disc I can probably find an 30 mL or so of > KPR. > > For best resolution make a 4X image and then photoreduce 4X on to > film and use that to expose the > KPR. It makes beautiful circuit boards that way. > > Dave Another thought that comes to mind is that, when I was looking into making my own encoders, my design used a disk and two masks. The masks were a portion of the disk placed one half line width apart on the disk, such that one or the other went black at half line intervals. This allows you to have a large sensing area, and average out disk image errors. This doesn't account for the index though. I guess you would need a separate short lined section and another mask. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
If anyone wants to etch a disc I can probably find an 30 mL or so of KPR. For best resolution make a 4X image and then photoreduce 4X on to film and use that to expose the KPR. It makes beautiful circuit boards that way. Dave On Dec 25, 2007, at 12:42 PM, ben lipkowitz wrote: > I would feel confident printing 256 lines on a 2 inch diameter > encoder, > with my 600 dpi HP laserjet 1018, but I haven't tried it out with a > sensor > yet. At 512 lines, the spacing between lines starts to look uneven. > > A 7 inch disc with 1024 lines looks pretty good. > > Kinko's has 1200 dpi laser printers... > > Here is a sample output for anyone who has trouble running the python > program: (60mm dia 256 lines) > http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder.pdf > > I'd be happy to run any set of parameters, just ask. > > On Tue, 25 Dec 2007, Kirk Wallace wrote: > >> A while back, I tried printing an encoder with my CAD program. I >> didn't >> get very good results. My laser printer's resolution, which is >> great for >> printing documents, was lousy for encoders. What resolution and how >> small a disk is possible with your method? Although, I suppose for a >> spindle, a larger size and lower resolution is more appropriate. I am >> still looking into a magnetic encoder for clean but oily >> environments. >> >> On Tue, 2007-12-25 at 06:19 +, ben lipkowitz wrote: >>> On Mon, 24 Dec 2007, Geert De Pecker wrote: >>> To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/ index.html). >>> >>> Geert, >>>There are some .ps files floating around that can be used to >>> print your >>> own optical encoders, and since postscript is a programming >>> language they >>> are relatively easily modified to do weird stuff such as in >>> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps >>> >>> however i find postscript can be hard to understand sometimes, so i >>> rewrote it in python: >>> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/draw_encoder.py >>> >>> hope this proves useful to someone >>>-fenn >> > > -- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
I would feel confident printing 256 lines on a 2 inch diameter encoder, with my 600 dpi HP laserjet 1018, but I haven't tried it out with a sensor yet. At 512 lines, the spacing between lines starts to look uneven. A 7 inch disc with 1024 lines looks pretty good. Kinko's has 1200 dpi laser printers... Here is a sample output for anyone who has trouble running the python program: (60mm dia 256 lines) http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder.pdf I'd be happy to run any set of parameters, just ask. On Tue, 25 Dec 2007, Kirk Wallace wrote: > A while back, I tried printing an encoder with my CAD program. I didn't > get very good results. My laser printer's resolution, which is great for > printing documents, was lousy for encoders. What resolution and how > small a disk is possible with your method? Although, I suppose for a > spindle, a larger size and lower resolution is more appropriate. I am > still looking into a magnetic encoder for clean but oily environments. > > On Tue, 2007-12-25 at 06:19 +, ben lipkowitz wrote: >> On Mon, 24 Dec 2007, Geert De Pecker wrote: >> >>> To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the >>> development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself >>> (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html). >> >> Geert, >>There are some .ps files floating around that can be used to print your >> own optical encoders, and since postscript is a programming language they >> are relatively easily modified to do weird stuff such as in >> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps >> >> however i find postscript can be hard to understand sometimes, so i >> rewrote it in python: >> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/draw_encoder.py >> >> hope this proves useful to someone >>-fenn > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
A while back, I tried printing an encoder with my CAD program. I didn't get very good results. My laser printer's resolution, which is great for printing documents, was lousy for encoders. What resolution and how small a disk is possible with your method? Although, I suppose for a spindle, a larger size and lower resolution is more appropriate. I am still looking into a magnetic encoder for clean but oily environments. On Tue, 2007-12-25 at 06:19 +, ben lipkowitz wrote: > On Mon, 24 Dec 2007, Geert De Pecker wrote: > > > To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the > > development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself > > (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html). > > Geert, >There are some .ps files floating around that can be used to print your > own optical encoders, and since postscript is a programming language they > are relatively easily modified to do weird stuff such as in > http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps > > however i find postscript can be hard to understand sometimes, so i > rewrote it in python: > http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/draw_encoder.py > > hope this proves useful to someone >-fenn -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Tuesday 25 December 2007, ben lipkowitz wrote: >On Mon, 24 Dec 2007, Geert De Pecker wrote: >> To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the >> development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself >> (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html). > >Geert, > There are some .ps files floating around that can be used to print your >own optical encoders, and since postscript is a programming language they >are relatively easily modified to do weird stuff such as in >http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps > >however i find postscript can be hard to understand sometimes, so i >rewrote it in python: >http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/draw_encoder.py > Humm, I must not have enough python installed, it runs quickly with no errors to stdout, and makes a 491 byte file that acroread can't open, no pages found. I used to think I knew something about ps. I'll try that too. But that isn't the type I had in mind, this is digitizing. Looks great for that though. :) >hope this proves useful to someone > -fenn Thanks Ben. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win. -- Robert Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love" - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007, Geert De Pecker wrote: > To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the > development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself > (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html). Geert, There are some .ps files floating around that can be used to print your own optical encoders, and since postscript is a programming language they are relatively easily modified to do weird stuff such as in http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps however i find postscript can be hard to understand sometimes, so i rewrote it in python: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/draw_encoder.py hope this proves useful to someone -fenn - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Geert De Pecker wrote: > Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max > input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer > and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to > the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see > what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. > > Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC converter to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. Sounds as if you are nearly there though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk, You pointed me in the right direction. With siggen and scale, I was able to produce a frequency from the spindle control. I posted the mill.ini and mill.hal on http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html. The signal isn't very stable because I had to put it in the servo-thread (probably needed because of the floating point) and the original 1msec period of this on 400Hz is on the low side. Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. Thanks again for pointing this out, Geert - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk, To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html). Still some time away though. Yes the C11 is full throttle. If you're interested in the files, no problem, but for now they are still quite stock the output of stepconf. Geert Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 20:13 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: >> Kirk, >> >> Thanks for the info. I'll check it out. >> >> I don't think we need 24kHz. The default pwm signal is 100Hz and gave me >> 2.5 volts. I changed the frequence in the hal config to 200 Hz and the >> output was approx 5V, so I guess the max voltage on the C11 board is >> reached at 400Hz. >> >> Never experimetd with hal before, will take me some study and testing, >> before I can get back. >> >> Geert > > If you are going to have EMC do tapping or threading, you may want to > have the frequency on the upper end for better speed control at low > spindle speeds. I assume you have the C11 pot turned all the way up to > get 5 Volts at 200 RPM? Are you using an EMC axis or spindle feature for > control? If it's convenient, would you put your .ini and .hal files on > your website and post a link? - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 20:13 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > Kirk, > > Thanks for the info. I'll check it out. > > I don't think we need 24kHz. The default pwm signal is 100Hz and gave me > 2.5 volts. I changed the frequence in the hal config to 200 Hz and the > output was approx 5V, so I guess the max voltage on the C11 board is > reached at 400Hz. > > Never experimetd with hal before, will take me some study and testing, > before I can get back. > > Geert If you are going to have EMC do tapping or threading, you may want to have the frequency on the upper end for better speed control at low spindle speeds. I assume you have the C11 pot turned all the way up to get 5 Volts at 200 RPM? Are you using an EMC axis or spindle feature for control? If it's convenient, would you put your .ini and .hal files on your website and post a link? -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk, Thanks for the info. I'll check it out. I don't think we need 24kHz. The default pwm signal is 100Hz and gave me 2.5 volts. I changed the frequence in the hal config to 200 Hz and the output was approx 5V, so I guess the max voltage on the C11 board is reached at 400Hz. Never experimetd with hal before, will take me some study and testing, before I can get back. Geert Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 19:01 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: >> It is the C11 multifunction board. Main reasons where the isolated >> analog voltage and the relay to enable me to stop the motor when the job >> is finished. >> > >>From a brief look at the documentation, it looks like you need one of > the parallel port pins to put out a O to 24 kHz signal based on the > spindle speed command. If you have a reasonably fast PC, that should not > be a problem. So in your HAL file, you might connect, > > motion.spindle-speed-out OUT float (spindle speed in RPM) > to > scale.X.in (to scale RPM to kHz such that full RPM equals 24kHz) > > scale.X.out > to > siggen.X.frequency > > siggen..square > to > conv-float-bit.N.in (which doesn't seem to exist, check: > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/ > maybe conv-float-u32 then conv-u32-bit? Or, should be easy to write a > new HAL component. > ) > > conv-float-bit.N.out > to > parport.0.pin-XX-out > > This is a rough guess. There are allot of details missing, but may get > you started. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 19:01 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > It is the C11 multifunction board. Main reasons where the isolated > analog voltage and the relay to enable me to stop the motor when the job > is finished. > >From a brief look at the documentation, it looks like you need one of the parallel port pins to put out a O to 24 kHz signal based on the spindle speed command. If you have a reasonably fast PC, that should not be a problem. So in your HAL file, you might connect, motion.spindle-speed-out OUT float (spindle speed in RPM) to scale.X.in (to scale RPM to kHz such that full RPM equals 24kHz) scale.X.out to siggen.X.frequency siggen..square to conv-float-bit.N.in (which doesn't seem to exist, check: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/ maybe conv-float-u32 then conv-u32-bit? Or, should be easy to write a new HAL component. ) conv-float-bit.N.out to parport.0.pin-XX-out This is a rough guess. There are allot of details missing, but may get you started. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
It is the C11 multifunction board. Main reasons where the isolated analog voltage and the relay to enable me to stop the motor when the job is finished. Kirk Wallace wrote: > Which CNC4PC board do you have? > > On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 18:51 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: >> Kirk, >> >> Problem is that I bought the cnc4pc board with the speed controller in >> mind. The doc said it supported emc, so I guess there must be a way. >> Arturo of cnc4pc is looking into it. >> >> So if I can avoid adding extra hardware, this would be nice. >> >> I agree if you want very fine control, your solution would be the best >> way to go. >> >> >> Geert > > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Which CNC4PC board do you have? On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 18:51 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > Kirk, > > Problem is that I bought the cnc4pc board with the speed controller in > mind. The doc said it supported emc, so I guess there must be a way. > Arturo of cnc4pc is looking into it. > > So if I can avoid adding extra hardware, this would be nice. > > I agree if you want very fine control, your solution would be the best > way to go. > > > Geert - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk, Problem is that I bought the cnc4pc board with the speed controller in mind. The doc said it supported emc, so I guess there must be a way. Arturo of cnc4pc is looking into it. So if I can avoid adding extra hardware, this would be nice. I agree if you want very fine control, your solution would be the best way to go. Geert Kirk Wallace wrote: > > A common problem with pwmgen and seggen is that they use the parallel > port, which has a limited bandwidth. I tried controlling my 0 to 10 Volt > VFD with a parallel port PWM and RC filter, and found that a decent > filter slowed the change in signal to a second or more. Typically, you > need an external device that can produce much higher frequencies. > > The parallel port is much better at transmitting data. So for my VFD's , > I started work on a 0 to 10 Volt DC analog DAC board here: > > http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/serial_dac/ > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 14:11 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > Hi all, > > I installed a CNC4PC breakout board that has an analog voltage output > available for spindle speed control. However, this board works based > on a frequency to voltage converter and not like standard emc duty cycle > generated by pwmgen. > > I was looking into using siggen to create a speed controlled frequency, > but it seesm this function is mostly for testing. > > Anybody knows what the best possibilities/options are? > > Regards and happy ending, > > Geert A common problem with pwmgen and seggen is that they use the parallel port, which has a limited bandwidth. I tried controlling my 0 to 10 Volt VFD with a parallel port PWM and RC filter, and found that a decent filter slowed the change in signal to a second or more. Typically, you need an external device that can produce much higher frequencies. The parallel port is much better at transmitting data. So for my VFD's , I started work on a 0 to 10 Volt DC analog DAC board here: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/serial_dac/ -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
