Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Roland via EV]

I have been running four IOTA's 45 in parallel on the input and output side.  
Each high voltage input is fuse with a Busman Limitron 5 amp fuse and the 14.5 
volt output is fuse with a standard 35 amp auto fuse.  

The 14.5 volt output  is also parallel with a commercial alternator which can 
be adjusted from 13.5 to 15 volts which is design for charging a deep cycle 
battery which is also in parallel. The alternator is set for 14.5 volts which 
is also a inverter that has 110 vdc that is inverted to 120 vac 60 hz rated at 
7kw.  

The converters are in a air cool compartment in the rear of the EV.  The feeder 
circuit to the alternator is 25 feet long which consist of six No. 6 AWG 
stranded copper wire.  The converters output voltage may drop to about 13.8 
volts at a 100 amp load.

I have a ampere and voltage indications at each end of this circuit.  As the 
rpm of the alternator drops below 1200 rpm or motor rpm drops to 300 rpm (4 to 
1 pulley ratio) the alternator goes off line, the converters come on line thus 
providing 14.5 volts while the EV motor is at 0 rpm. 

I been running this set up since September of 2002 with no problems. The 
maximum ampere I had on the IOTA's 45 is about 25 amps per unit in the winter 
running three electric heaters at 43 below zero.  The 14.5 volts is inverted to 
120 vac 60 hz 5kw which is use for the heaters, fans, and pumps. 

This circuit also had a transfer switch, where I could preheat the EV with 
commercial power before I left. Back when I working, the ICE vehicles never had 
a chance to beat me to the gate from the parking lot which consist of pushing 
through a foot of snow. 

Roland  


  - Original Message - 
  From: Lee Hart via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 
  Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 12:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining


  Michael Ross via EV wrote:
  > I wonder if you can run two in parallel?

  Usually, no. Whichever one happens to have the slightly higher output 
  voltage will try to supply *all* the power, and the other one just 
  loafs. The overloaded one may shut down, or overheat, or otherwise do 
  something undesirable.

  But in a pinch, you can add a small resistance in series with each 
  output; enough to drop the output maybe 5% at full load. The voltage 
  drop forces them to share the load better.

  -- 
  Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the
  complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus
  --
  Lee Hart's EV projects are at 
http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm<http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm>
  ___
  UNSUBSCRIBE: 
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub<http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub>
  
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org<http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org>
  For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA>)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140517/d6a24b92/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Lee Hart via EV]

Michael Ross via EV wrote:

I wonder if you can run two in parallel?


Usually, no. Whichever one happens to have the slightly higher output 
voltage will try to supply *all* the power, and the other one just 
loafs. The overloaded one may shut down, or overheat, or otherwise do 
something undesirable.


But in a pinch, you can add a small resistance in series with each 
output; enough to drop the output maybe 5% at full load. The voltage 
drop forces them to share the load better.


--
Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the
complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael Ross via EV]

I wonder if you can run two in parallel?


On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Michael K Johnson via EV  wrote:

> Found an ebay listing for  WRB4812S which has 36-72V input and 12V
> output. Bought it. Then re-read and found that it's a 1W part and the
> meter is listed at 2W. Oops. Guess I'll measure what it actually
> draws; I assume that's for the relays that I don't even want to drive.
> Maybe I can configure the setpoints so that it doesn't draw power for
> the relays and it lives on 1W...
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Michael K Johnson 
> wrote:
> > Well, my system floats from the frame, but lightobject responded:
> >
> > : The power of the JLD404 is isolated and the ground of the
> > : power negative has no common to the Input ground. You do
> > : NOT want to common ground the power and the INPUT ground.
> > : Otherwise, the amp meter won't work and that is the pretty of the
> > : JLD404 with isolated Ground
> >
> > So I guess it's off to ebay for an isolating power supply.  I haven't
> > seen one yet that can handle 48V and output 12V, so it looks like
> > I'll have to put it downstream from my buck converter.
> >
> > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Rick Beebe  wrote:
> >> Jack's concern was that the meter might make a connection between frame
> >> ground and the high voltage pack so he put the DC-DC in for isolation. I
> >> did have that problem on the analog volt meter I used to have in the
> >> truck so I put one in as well. However I don't have any evidence to
> >> suggest it's really necessary for this meter. I haven't found any
> >> continuity between the 12v power and high voltage connections on the
> >> meter. But the DC-DC was only a couple bucks so it was cheap insurance.
> >>
> >> --Rick
> >>
> >> On 05/14/2014 08:17 PM, Michael K Johnson wrote:
> >>> Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
> >>> mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
> >>>
> >>> The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
> >>> see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
> >>> cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
> >>> are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
> >>> lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV 
> wrote:
>  I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
>  have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
>  to a 75mV/750A shunt.
> 
>  The manual is available here:
>  http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074
> 
>  Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
>  http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.
> 
>  --Rick
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, "The summer day."

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. 
Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824  Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Lee Hart via EV]

Michael K Johnson via EV wrote:

Found an ebay listing for  WRB4812S which has 36-72V input and 12V
output. Bought it. Then re-read and found that it's a 1W part and the
meter is listed at 2W.


Caution: A large majority of these small inexpensive DC/DC converters 
have really bad isolation. They may advertise "1000v" or so; but the 
fine print on the data sheet says things like "Isolation not guaranteed. 
Only sampled, all units are not tested. A one-time test, for one second. 
Designed to meet UL... (rather than actually meets UL)."


Get an extra one, and cut it open. 99% of the time, the isolation 
transformer is wound with enamelled magnet wire. The primary and 
secondary are directly on top of each other, with no supplemental 
insulation between them. Magnet wire insulation is only good for about 
30vac continuous; so the primary and secondary are only insulated for 
60vac continuous duty.


--
Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the
complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael K Johnson via EV]

Found an ebay listing for  WRB4812S which has 36-72V input and 12V
output. Bought it. Then re-read and found that it's a 1W part and the
meter is listed at 2W. Oops. Guess I'll measure what it actually
draws; I assume that's for the relays that I don't even want to drive.
Maybe I can configure the setpoints so that it doesn't draw power for
the relays and it lives on 1W...

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Michael K Johnson  wrote:
> Well, my system floats from the frame, but lightobject responded:
>
> : The power of the JLD404 is isolated and the ground of the
> : power negative has no common to the Input ground. You do
> : NOT want to common ground the power and the INPUT ground.
> : Otherwise, the amp meter won't work and that is the pretty of the
> : JLD404 with isolated Ground
>
> So I guess it's off to ebay for an isolating power supply.  I haven't
> seen one yet that can handle 48V and output 12V, so it looks like
> I'll have to put it downstream from my buck converter.
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Rick Beebe  wrote:
>> Jack's concern was that the meter might make a connection between frame
>> ground and the high voltage pack so he put the DC-DC in for isolation. I
>> did have that problem on the analog volt meter I used to have in the
>> truck so I put one in as well. However I don't have any evidence to
>> suggest it's really necessary for this meter. I haven't found any
>> continuity between the 12v power and high voltage connections on the
>> meter. But the DC-DC was only a couple bucks so it was cheap insurance.
>>
>> --Rick
>>
>> On 05/14/2014 08:17 PM, Michael K Johnson wrote:
>>> Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
>>> mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
>>>
>>> The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
>>> see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
>>> cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
>>> are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
>>> lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV  
>>> wrote:
 I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
 have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
 to a 75mV/750A shunt.

 The manual is available here:
 http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074

 Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
 http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.

 --Rick
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael Ross via EV]

This is not what is on the ELF, but ti is wqhat you are after.

http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/SD-15C-12.shtml

1.25A $13.  I use Meanwell PS in my lab and have no complaints.


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:16 PM, Michael Ross wrote:

> My ELF has one.  48:12.  Let me see If I can f ind you a source.
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Michael K Johnson via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>> Well, my system floats from the frame, but lightobject responded:
>>
>> : The power of the JLD404 is isolated and the ground of the
>> : power negative has no common to the Input ground. You do
>> : NOT want to common ground the power and the INPUT ground.
>> : Otherwise, the amp meter won't work and that is the pretty of the
>> : JLD404 with isolated Ground
>>
>> So I guess it's off to ebay for an isolating power supply.  I haven't
>> seen one yet that can handle 48V and output 12V, so it looks like
>> I'll have to put it downstream from my buck converter.
>>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Rick Beebe  wrote:
>> > Jack's concern was that the meter might make a connection between frame
>> > ground and the high voltage pack so he put the DC-DC in for isolation. I
>> > did have that problem on the analog volt meter I used to have in the
>> > truck so I put one in as well. However I don't have any evidence to
>> > suggest it's really necessary for this meter. I haven't found any
>> > continuity between the 12v power and high voltage connections on the
>> > meter. But the DC-DC was only a couple bucks so it was cheap insurance.
>> >
>> > --Rick
>> >
>> > On 05/14/2014 08:17 PM, Michael K Johnson wrote:
>> >> Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
>> >> mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
>> >>
>> >> The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
>> >> see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
>> >> cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
>> >> are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
>> >> lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV 
>> wrote:
>> >>> I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
>> >>> have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
>> >>> to a 75mV/750A shunt.
>> >>>
>> >>> The manual is available here:
>> >>> http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074
>> >>>
>> >>> Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
>> >>> http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.
>> >>>
>> >>> --Rick
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
> happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
> *Dalai Lama *
>
> Tell me what it is you plan to do
> With your one wild and precious life?
> Mary Oliver, "The summer day."
>
> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
> Thomas A. 
> Edison
>
> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
> *Warren Buffet*
>
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 550-2430 Land
> (919) 576-0824  Google
> Phone
> (919) 631-1451 Cell
> (919) 513-0418 Desk
>
> michael.e.r...@gmail.com
> 
>
>
>


-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, "The summer day."

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. 
Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824  Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael Ross via EV]

My ELF has one.  48:12.  Let me see If I can f ind you a source.


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Michael K Johnson via EV  wrote:

> Well, my system floats from the frame, but lightobject responded:
>
> : The power of the JLD404 is isolated and the ground of the
> : power negative has no common to the Input ground. You do
> : NOT want to common ground the power and the INPUT ground.
> : Otherwise, the amp meter won't work and that is the pretty of the
> : JLD404 with isolated Ground
>
> So I guess it's off to ebay for an isolating power supply.  I haven't
> seen one yet that can handle 48V and output 12V, so it looks like
> I'll have to put it downstream from my buck converter.
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Rick Beebe  wrote:
> > Jack's concern was that the meter might make a connection between frame
> > ground and the high voltage pack so he put the DC-DC in for isolation. I
> > did have that problem on the analog volt meter I used to have in the
> > truck so I put one in as well. However I don't have any evidence to
> > suggest it's really necessary for this meter. I haven't found any
> > continuity between the 12v power and high voltage connections on the
> > meter. But the DC-DC was only a couple bucks so it was cheap insurance.
> >
> > --Rick
> >
> > On 05/14/2014 08:17 PM, Michael K Johnson wrote:
> >> Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
> >> mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
> >>
> >> The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
> >> see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
> >> cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
> >> are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
> >> lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV 
> wrote:
> >>> I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
> >>> have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
> >>> to a 75mV/750A shunt.
> >>>
> >>> The manual is available here:
> >>> http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074
> >>>
> >>> Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
> >>> http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.
> >>>
> >>> --Rick
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, "The summer day."

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. 
Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824  Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael K Johnson via EV]

Well, my system floats from the frame, but lightobject responded:

: The power of the JLD404 is isolated and the ground of the
: power negative has no common to the Input ground. You do
: NOT want to common ground the power and the INPUT ground.
: Otherwise, the amp meter won't work and that is the pretty of the
: JLD404 with isolated Ground

So I guess it's off to ebay for an isolating power supply.  I haven't
seen one yet that can handle 48V and output 12V, so it looks like
I'll have to put it downstream from my buck converter.

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Rick Beebe  wrote:
> Jack's concern was that the meter might make a connection between frame
> ground and the high voltage pack so he put the DC-DC in for isolation. I
> did have that problem on the analog volt meter I used to have in the
> truck so I put one in as well. However I don't have any evidence to
> suggest it's really necessary for this meter. I haven't found any
> continuity between the 12v power and high voltage connections on the
> meter. But the DC-DC was only a couple bucks so it was cheap insurance.
>
> --Rick
>
> On 05/14/2014 08:17 PM, Michael K Johnson wrote:
>> Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
>> mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
>>
>> The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
>> see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
>> cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
>> are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
>> lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:
>>> I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
>>> have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
>>> to a 75mV/750A shunt.
>>>
>>> The manual is available here:
>>> http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074
>>>
>>> Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
>>> http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.
>>>
>>> --Rick
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Jack's concern was that the meter might make a connection between frame
ground and the high voltage pack so he put the DC-DC in for isolation. I
did have that problem on the analog volt meter I used to have in the
truck so I put one in as well. However I don't have any evidence to
suggest it's really necessary for this meter. I haven't found any
continuity between the 12v power and high voltage connections on the
meter. But the DC-DC was only a couple bucks so it was cheap insurance.

--Rick

On 05/14/2014 08:17 PM, Michael K Johnson wrote:
> Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
> mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
> 
> The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
> see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
> cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
> are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
> lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:
>> I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
>> have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
>> to a 75mV/750A shunt.
>>
>> The manual is available here:
>> http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074
>>
>> Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
>> http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.
>>
>> --Rick
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Ben Apollonio via EV]

You say that like it's past tense!  I still have this on my electric Porsche 
914, though only for lack of funds/time...

-Ben

On May 13, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Jan Steinman via EV  wrote:

>> From: Michael Ross via EV 
>> 
>> It had another training system - where you learned never to leave home with
>> out a pile of blankets. called air engine cooling/cabin heating.
> 
> Also, when you couldn't clean your windshields but you still had washer 
> fluid, it was time to put more air in the spare tire. :-)
> 
>  I reject get-it-done, make-it-happen thinking. I want to slow things 
> down so I understand them better. -- Jerry Brown
>  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael Ross via EV]

Michael,

The JLD 404 will run on from 8 to 30VDC.  You can be creative powering the
meter.  Maybe you have  a small battery you can put into service for this.

Mike


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 8:17 PM, Michael K Johnson via EV  wrote:

> Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
> mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
>
> The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
> see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
> cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
> are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
> lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV 
> wrote:
> > I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
> > have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
> > to a 75mV/750A shunt.
> >
> > The manual is available here:
> > http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074
> >
> > Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
> > http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.
> >
> > --Rick
> >
> > On 05/14/2014 06:35 AM, Michael K Johnson via EV wrote:
> >> That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
> >> what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.
> >>
> >> I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
> >> meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
> >> have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
> >> would work?
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
> >>  wrote:
> >>> I'm going to try one of these:
> >>>
> http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
> >>>
> >>> I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.
> >
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, "The summer day."

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. 
Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824  Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael K Johnson via EV]

Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.

The EVTV diagram says "Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter". I didn't
see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:
> I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
> have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
> to a 75mV/750A shunt.
>
> The manual is available here:
> http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074
>
> Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
> http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.
>
> --Rick
>
> On 05/14/2014 06:35 AM, Michael K Johnson via EV wrote:
>> That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
>> what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.
>>
>> I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
>> meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
>> have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
>> would work?
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
>>  wrote:
>>> I'm going to try one of these:
>>> http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
>>>
>>> I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Jan Steinman via EV]

Thanks for the additional information, Denis.

I admit that I took a quick glance and thought the unit was much simpler than 
it actually is.

But a 2" display? For eyes over 40? :-) I guess they figure the availability of 
the Android app makes up for the dinky display. But I'd REALLY prefer digits of 
2 cm or bigger, in a 4" display.

Also, it appears to have a limit of 10,000 watt-hours. I have a 26 kWH pack, 
and it's not clear if this device will be useful for the top 62% of pack 
capacity, at least in kWH. (The "% of charge" and histogram may still be 
useful.)

I'll certainly consider it, but I need to focus on getting the conversion done 
before I worry about instrumentation. The "default trip" for this vehicle will 
be about 20 km, so I can probably get by without instrumentation for a while.

Jan

On 2014-05-14, at 09:53, Denis Boutet wrote:

> Hi Jan, 
> 
> I see a phone number on the web page for the 2nd link you provide, in Toronto 
> (http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series).  
> 
> For the simplicity of the EV Display I agree but you can add a module that 
> transmits via WiFi the signal for an very decent App that runs on any Android 
> phone or Tablet.  Keep in mind that each line can display 9 infos, from Pack 
> voltage, Wh, Amps (consumed or regen'd or charging), SOC, etc.  So you can 
> choose 2 that meets the need of the moment like when you drive or charge or 
> ?.  I include the manuals for both units where you can see how it looks and 
> what it does.  It is plenty realy even if it does not look that way, even on 
> their website I find the info not complete, look at the manual.
> 
> Denis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Le 2014-05-14 à 00:21, John Lussmyer via EV  a écrit :
> 
>> On Tue May 13 21:11:33 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>>> Thanks, Denis.
>>> 
>>> It looks like a pretty simple display. I'm sorta hoping for something with 
>>> more numbers on it. There seem to be a number of units on eBay that only go 
>>> to 100 V and 30 A:
>>> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-in-1-Digital-Combo-Panel-Meter-DC100V30A-Volt-Amp-kWh-Watt-Working-Time-/181403417248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2a3c7c7aa0&_uhb=1
>>> 
>>> but I'm hoping for something more like this that will do 196V and up to 500 
>>> A:
>>> http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series
>>> 
>>> This unit could display volts, amps, and kWH simultaneously, but I haven't 
>>> found a supplier nor even a price!
>> 
>> I'm going to try one of these:
>> http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
>> 
>> I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Try my Sensible Email package!  
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
> 

 We talk about the state's attempts to ban the sale of raw milk, and a 
proposed labeling regulation that would require raw milk producers to label 
each bottle, "WARNING: This raw milk producit is unpasteurized and may contain 
disease-causing bacteria..." Other food -- hamburgers, chicken, commercial 
dairy products -- can contain disease-causing bacteria. These products are not 
required to carry a label declaring them dangerous. It is ludicrous to require 
producers of high quality raw milk to label their products in a way that is 
more likely to put them out of business than to protect anyone. -- Ron Schmid
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Martin Winlow via EV]

See the same item on evtv's website shop - there is a useful setup document you 
can download and they sell it with a suitable shunt.  MW

> On 14 May 2014, at 11:35, Michael K Johnson via EV  wrote:
> 
> That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
> what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.
> 
> I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
> meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
> have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
> would work?
> 
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
>  wrote:
>> On Tue May 13 21:11:33 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>>> Thanks, Denis.
>>> 
>>> It looks like a pretty simple display. I'm sorta hoping for something with 
>>> more numbers on it. There seem to be a number of units on eBay that only go 
>>> to 100 V and 30 A:
>>> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-in-1-Digital-Combo-Panel-Meter-DC100V30A-Volt-Amp-kWh-Watt-Working-Time-/181403417248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2a3c7c7aa0&_uhb=1
>>> 
>>> but I'm hoping for something more like this that will do 196V and up to 500 
>>> A:
>>> http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series
>>> 
>>> This unit could display volts, amps, and kWH simultaneously, but I haven't 
>>> found a supplier nor even a price!
>> 
>> I'm going to try one of these:
>> http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
>> 
>> I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Try my Sensible Email package!  
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
to a 75mV/750A shunt.

The manual is available here:
http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1074

Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.

--Rick

On 05/14/2014 06:35 AM, Michael K Johnson via EV wrote:
> That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
> what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.
> 
> I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
> meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
> have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
> would work?
> 
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
>  wrote:
>> I'm going to try one of these:
>> http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
>>
>> I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael K Johnson via EV]

That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.

I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
would work?

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
 wrote:
> On Tue May 13 21:11:33 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>>Thanks, Denis.
>>
>>It looks like a pretty simple display. I'm sorta hoping for something with 
>>more numbers on it. There seem to be a number of units on eBay that only go 
>>to 100 V and 30 A:
>>http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-in-1-Digital-Combo-Panel-Meter-DC100V30A-Volt-Amp-kWh-Watt-Working-Time-/181403417248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2a3c7c7aa0&_uhb=1
>>
>>but I'm hoping for something more like this that will do 196V and up to 500 A:
>>http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series
>>
>>This unit could display volts, amps, and kWH simultaneously, but I haven't 
>>found a supplier nor even a price!
>
> I'm going to try one of these:
> http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
>
> I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.
>
>
> --
>
> Try my Sensible Email package!  
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

> I like the Cruising Equipment E-meter, Heart Interface Link-10, and now
it's the
> Xantrex Link-Lite something-or-other

I have 2 E-Meters that nobody has bought, give me a fair price and I'll bet
I say yes.

www.TucsonEV/EVstuff.html

Rush
www.TucsonEV.com





___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Lee Hart via EV]

Jan Steinman via EV wrote:

Anyone recommend a nice bi-directional DC kWH meter?


I like the Cruising Equipment E-meter, Heart Interface Link-10, and now 
it's the Xantrex Link-Lite something-or-other. I have the older ones, 
and found them very accurate and reliable. I haven't tried any of the 
newest version made by Xantrex in China; but I'm told they are still OK. 
Maybe someone can chime in with their experiences.


--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities. -- Susan Rice
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Tue May 13 21:11:33 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Thanks, Denis.
>
>It looks like a pretty simple display. I'm sorta hoping for something with 
>more numbers on it. There seem to be a number of units on eBay that only go to 
>100 V and 30 A:
>http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-in-1-Digital-Combo-Panel-Meter-DC100V30A-Volt-Amp-kWh-Watt-Working-Time-/181403417248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2a3c7c7aa0&_uhb=1
>
>but I'm hoping for something more like this that will do 196V and up to 500 A:
>http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series
>
>This unit could display volts, amps, and kWH simultaneously, but I haven't 
>found a supplier nor even a price!

I'm going to try one of these:
http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx

I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.


--

Try my Sensible Email package!  https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Jan Steinman via EV]

Thanks, Denis.

It looks like a pretty simple display. I'm sorta hoping for something with more 
numbers on it. There seem to be a number of units on eBay that only go to 100 V 
and 30 A:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-in-1-Digital-Combo-Panel-Meter-DC100V30A-Volt-Amp-kWh-Watt-Working-Time-/181403417248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2a3c7c7aa0&_uhb=1

but I'm hoping for something more like this that will do 196V and up to 500 A:
http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series

This unit could display volts, amps, and kWH simultaneously, but I haven't 
found a supplier nor even a price!

Jan

On 2014-05-13, at 19:07, Denis Boutet wrote:

> Hello Jan,
> Have a look at http://minibms.mybigcommerce.com/products/EV-Display.html
> I have one installed in my Ranger EV and it is accurate and has been very 
> reliable.
> Denis
> 
> Le 2014-05-13 à 20:04, Jan Steinman via EV  a écrit :
> 
>>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
>>> 
>>> An amphour counter (or better, a KWH counter) is pretty close to an 
>>> honest "gas gauge", that accurately tells you how much fuel is in the 
>>> tank.
>> 
>> Anyone recommend a nice bi-directional DC kWH meter?
>> 
>>  What is truth? That old question has had so many expedient answers that 
>> you have to be careful where you ask it. When I ask it here at the foot of 
>> the mountain the answer is that truth is the way things are, not the way we 
>> shape them or contrive them or wish they were, but the way they are. -- Hal 
>> Borland
>>  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
> 

 (null){script.call.not.allowed.within.a.script!:(null)
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
> 
> An amphour counter (or better, a KWH counter) is pretty close to an 
> honest "gas gauge", that accurately tells you how much fuel is in the 
> tank.

Anyone recommend a nice bi-directional DC kWH meter?

 What is truth? That old question has had so many expedient answers that 
you have to be careful where you ask it. When I ask it here at the foot of the 
mountain the answer is that truth is the way things are, not the way we shape 
them or contrive them or wish they were, but the way they are. -- Hal Borland
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: Michael Ross via EV 
> 
> It had another training system - where you learned never to leave home with
> out a pile of blankets. called air engine cooling/cabin heating.

Also, when you couldn't clean your windshields but you still had washer fluid, 
it was time to put more air in the spare tire. :-)

 I reject get-it-done, make-it-happen thinking. I want to slow things down 
so I understand them better. -- Jerry Brown
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Ben Apollonio via EV]

You, sir, have just described the battery gauge Tesla uses (though the display 
is a tad fancier).  Except they added tick marks every 10% for extra 
convenience.

I find the 'ignorant masses' are capable of learning.  They may not (and very 
likely won't) fully understand what a kilowatt-hour is, but they seem pretty 
good at figuring out that they have 20 of them, they drove 80 miles, and now 
only 2 remain.  Also, they cost $0.12 each (or $0.21 each, 70% of which is 
transmission charge, if you're unlucky enough to have my utility).  Makes more 
sense to give the units their proper name than to make up a non-technical one 
simply for the sake of being non-technical.

-Ben

On May 9, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> Well, it doesn't have to be called a kwh meter.  I could be called a
>> energy-remaining or, to use the term incorrectly, a power-remaining meter.
> 
> Or a "fuel gauge". :-)
> 
> Given the low cost of graphics displays, how about an icon that looks like a 
> battery? Empty (0% state of charge) has all the pixels inside it off. No 
> energy left; you can't drive.
> 
> As you charge it, the pixels light up, one-by-one. The icon could easily be 
> 100x100, so there are 10,000 pixels in there. You could easily see the pixels 
> being added as you charge. The charge rate is shown by the number of pixels 
> being added per second.
> 
> When the battery is full, most (but not all) of the pixels are lit. The 
> amount that fills indicates how much your battery can hold in its present 
> condition. That will change with temperature, as the pack ages, or gets 
> damaged, etc.
> 
> As you drive, you can see the pixels draining out of it. Slowly, or in a mad 
> rush if you're driving fast!
> 
> All done without units, so it won't confuse the "ignerunt masses". Just like 
> a standard gas gauge; it has no units (no gallons, no KWH). But obviously, 
> you could have an option that shows KWH numbers as well.
> -- 
> Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
> thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
> --
> Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[ph...@bill-collins.net via EV]

>If only, in their focus groups, they had asked the question: would you
>rather have an accurate remaining-kwh meter or an fairly inaccurate
>remaining-miles meter?

The 2013 (and I assume  2014) have percentage remaining as one of the selectable
options for the center display.  Not quite kwh, but similar.

Bill
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael Ross via EV]

I was delivered around northern Ohio for 5 winters in a 1959 VW bus - all
36 HP of it.

It had another training system - where you learned never to leave home with
out a pile of blankets. called air engine cooling/cabin heating.  Those
engines took 20 minutes to warm up right in a warm climate - at 5 below...

Tells you something about my Dad, he would buy such a thing.  Not sure what
exactly, but he is often a freer thinker, than a rational one.


On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>
>> You could give car owners a learning aid like I have - two batteries.
>>
>
> Aha... you may have something there! :-)
>
> Remember the old VW beetle "gas gauge"? There wasn't one! Two fuel lines
> went to the gas tank in two places; almost empty (about a gallong left),
> and empty. There was a valve that you operated with your foot to switch
> between the two.
>
>  - Fill up the tank, and flip the valve to the almost-empty position.
>  - Drive until the engine starts to sputter and die.
>  - Flip the valve to the empty position.
>  - Now you have 1 more gallon of gas, to get you to a gas station.
>
> Crude as all get out. But it worked! It *forced* people to learn how to
> keep track of the fuel usage in their head, and how far they could go on
> that last gallon. Like learning to ride a bike, or shift a manual
> transmission, you *learned* how it worked.
>
> So, build your EV to behave in such a way as to *train* you to keep track
> of energy usage, and how your driving habits are affecting it.
>
> Don't slavishly imitate an ICE (where you have full power any time, as
> long as you want, right up to the moment where it runs out of gas).
> Instead, create a new paradigm. The EV behaves more like (say) an athlete.
> He can run a marathon at a slow pace. Or he can run a short sprint at a
> fast pace; but then has to rest before he can do it again.
>
>
> --
> Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
> thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
> --
> Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, "The summer day."

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. 
Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824  Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Well, it doesn't have to be called a kwh meter.  I could be called a
energy-remaining or, to use the term incorrectly, a power-remaining meter.


Or a "fuel gauge". :-)

Given the low cost of graphics displays, how about an icon that looks 
like a battery? Empty (0% state of charge) has all the pixels inside it 
off. No energy left; you can't drive.


As you charge it, the pixels light up, one-by-one. The icon could easily 
be 100x100, so there are 10,000 pixels in there. You could easily see 
the pixels being added as you charge. The charge rate is shown by the 
number of pixels being added per second.


When the battery is full, most (but not all) of the pixels are lit. The 
amount that fills indicates how much your battery can hold in its 
present condition. That will change with temperature, as the pack ages, 
or gets damaged, etc.


As you drive, you can see the pixels draining out of it. Slowly, or in a 
mad rush if you're driving fast!


All done without units, so it won't confuse the "ignerunt masses". Just 
like a standard gas gauge; it has no units (no gallons, no KWH). But 
obviously, you could have an option that shows KWH numbers as well.

--
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Jamie K via EV]

On 5/9/14 10:36 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Well, it doesn't have to be called a kwh meter.  I could be called a
energy-remaining or, to use the term incorrectly, a power-remaining meter.


Perhaps that's what the optional percentage readout is meant to address 
on the 2013/2014 LEAF. I find it to be very useful, along with the 
instant and average miles per kWh indicators.


Cheers,
 -Jamie



Peri

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: 09 May, 2014 9:19 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

If only, in their focus groups, they had asked the question: would you
rather have an accurate remaining-kwh meter or an fairly inaccurate
remaining-miles meter?


But most of the people in the focus group would probably have said, "A
killerwhat? That sounds dangerous!"

I suspect that only 1% of average drivers could tell you what a
kilowatthour is. The Leaf focus group probably had people 10 times more
likely to be interested in EVs, so they were better; 10% of them knew
what a Kilowatthour is. So they still got out-voted.



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Lee Hart via EV]

Michael Ross via EV wrote:

You could give car owners a learning aid like I have - two batteries.


Aha... you may have something there! :-)

Remember the old VW beetle "gas gauge"? There wasn't one! Two fuel lines 
went to the gas tank in two places; almost empty (about a gallong left), 
and empty. There was a valve that you operated with your foot to switch 
between the two.


 - Fill up the tank, and flip the valve to the almost-empty position.
 - Drive until the engine starts to sputter and die.
 - Flip the valve to the empty position.
 - Now you have 1 more gallon of gas, to get you to a gas station.

Crude as all get out. But it worked! It *forced* people to learn how to 
keep track of the fuel usage in their head, and how far they could go on 
that last gallon. Like learning to ride a bike, or shift a manual 
transmission, you *learned* how it worked.


So, build your EV to behave in such a way as to *train* you to keep 
track of energy usage, and how your driving habits are affecting it.


Don't slavishly imitate an ICE (where you have full power any time, as 
long as you want, right up to the moment where it runs out of gas). 
Instead, create a new paradigm. The EV behaves more like (say) an 
athlete. He can run a marathon at a slow pace. Or he can run a short 
sprint at a fast pace; but then has to rest before he can do it again.


--
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Well, it doesn't have to be called a kwh meter.  I could be called a
energy-remaining or, to use the term incorrectly, a power-remaining meter.

Peri

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: 09 May, 2014 9:19 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> If only, in their focus groups, they had asked the question: would you
> rather have an accurate remaining-kwh meter or an fairly inaccurate
> remaining-miles meter?

But most of the people in the focus group would probably have said, "A 
killerwhat? That sounds dangerous!"

I suspect that only 1% of average drivers could tell you what a 
kilowatthour is. The Leaf focus group probably had people 10 times more 
likely to be interested in EVs, so they were better; 10% of them knew 
what a Kilowatthour is. So they still got out-voted.

-- 
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Michael Ross via EV]

You could give car owners a learning aid like I have - two batteries.

I run the smaller one till it conks out and switch over.  At work I charge
them both.  Then next day, or some other day, I start with the larger one
and drive it til it conks out and switch over.  After learning roughly
their potential mileage, I stop short of conking out and switch early.

I now start with the small one first and switch early - this winter I
learned about how the cold changes things.  Next winter I will start
keeping them warm at night.

Calling my wife to come get me is ample incentive for learning a successful
routine  (| :o)-\==<

A similar deal for cars would be a quickly declining 10s of performance at
1/2 tank then give the performance back. and again at 1/4 tank.  then 1/8
tank, and then the real performance drop.  With a big flashing computer
screen saying "I TOLD YOU SO!"




On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 11:41 AM, tomw via EV  wrote:

> I agree - as I wrote in a post in the "Peukert" thread.  I also agree most
> of
> us quickly develop the ability to guesstimate our range better since we
> take
> into account the final destination and elevation changes on the way.  The
> car manufacturers could do similar by giving you the option of entering
> your
> destination, and using google maps or similar to determine elevation
> changes
> plus gps for current vehicle location for more accurate estimates.  They
> could do even better, by recording actual energy/mile used, taking pack sag
> into account based on historical data for given grade and vehicle speed,
> etc.  I doubt most people would bother to enter their destination though
> except on longer trips - but that is where it would be most useful
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Miles-Remaining-tp4669432p4669459.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, "The summer day."

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. 
Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824  Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

If only, in their focus groups, they had asked the question: would you
rather have an accurate remaining-kwh meter or an fairly inaccurate
remaining-miles meter?


But most of the people in the focus group would probably have said, "A 
killerwhat? That sounds dangerous!"


I suspect that only 1% of average drivers could tell you what a 
kilowatthour is. The Leaf focus group probably had people 10 times more 
likely to be interested in EVs, so they were better; 10% of them knew 
what a Kilowatthour is. So they still got out-voted.


--
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[tomw via EV]

I agree - as I wrote in a post in the "Peukert" thread.  I also agree most of
us quickly develop the ability to guesstimate our range better since we take
into account the final destination and elevation changes on the way.  The
car manufacturers could do similar by giving you the option of entering your
destination, and using google maps or similar to determine elevation changes
plus gps for current vehicle location for more accurate estimates.  They
could do even better, by recording actual energy/mile used, taking pack sag
into account based on historical data for given grade and vehicle speed,
etc.  I doubt most people would bother to enter their destination though
except on longer trips - but that is where it would be most useful



--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Miles-Remaining-tp4669432p4669459.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Peri Hartman via EV]

If only, in their focus groups, they had asked the question: would you
rather have an accurate remaining-kwh meter or an fairly inaccurate
remaining-miles meter?

Peri

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: 09 May, 2014 8:21 AM
To: Willie2; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

Willie2 via EV wrote:
> The Leaf instrumentation is complete crap.

The Leaf is a wonderful car. I've driven one! But it's designed for Mr. 
and Mrs. Nontechnical, who think all that 'lectrical stuff has something 
to do with watting vaults to store currants at 'ome.

Focus groups said they want a miles-to-go gauge. So marketing says, 
"Give them a miles-to-go gauge". The engineers probably said, "We can't 
really do that." So we'll make it just like the gas gauge in a normal 
ICE car -- wildly inaccurate.

> Tesla instrumentation is pretty good. Both pale in comparison to a
> simple TBS type amp-hour counter.

An amphour counter (or better, a KWH counter) is pretty close to an 
honest "gas gauge", that accurately tells you how much fuel is in the 
tank. It's then up to the driver to estimate how far he can go on that 
amount of fuel. Some people can do it -- others can't. How often have 
you heard someone say, "I'm almost out of gas -- I'd better drive faster 
to get to a gas station before it runs out!"

For years, I've thought that someone should make a fuzzy-logic fuel 
gauge. (Fuzzy logic is a serious discipline, despite the funny name). It 
would tell you how many KWH are left in the battery. It estimates this 
by watching each charge/discharge cycle, and learning how many KWH it 
can deliver before the battery is "dead".

-- 
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Lee Hart via EV]

Willie2 via EV wrote:

The Leaf instrumentation is complete crap.


The Leaf is a wonderful car. I've driven one! But it's designed for Mr. 
and Mrs. Nontechnical, who think all that 'lectrical stuff has something 
to do with watting vaults to store currants at 'ome.


Focus groups said they want a miles-to-go gauge. So marketing says, 
"Give them a miles-to-go gauge". The engineers probably said, "We can't 
really do that." So we'll make it just like the gas gauge in a normal 
ICE car -- wildly inaccurate.



Tesla instrumentation is pretty good. Both pale in comparison to a
simple TBS type amp-hour counter.


An amphour counter (or better, a KWH counter) is pretty close to an 
honest "gas gauge", that accurately tells you how much fuel is in the 
tank. It's then up to the driver to estimate how far he can go on that 
amount of fuel. Some people can do it -- others can't. How often have 
you heard someone say, "I'm almost out of gas -- I'd better drive faster 
to get to a gas station before it runs out!"


For years, I've thought that someone should make a fuzzy-logic fuel 
gauge. (Fuzzy logic is a serious discipline, despite the funny name). It 
would tell you how many KWH are left in the battery. It estimates this 
by watching each charge/discharge cycle, and learning how many KWH it 
can deliver before the battery is "dead".


--
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Peri Hartman via EV]

That's a good point and I admit to doing the same.  However, it's still
pretty useless for its intended purpose :)

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of David Ladd via EV
Sent: 08 May, 2014 10:59 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

I like the miles remaining.  It's fun to play with it and see how much
driving style affects range.  Very direct feedback.

david.



>
> From: Bill Dennis via EV 
>To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'  
>Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:43 AM
>Subject: [EVDL] Miles Remaining
> 
>
>Lee wrote:
>>But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a
>given load). 
>>That is a much more complex calculation
>
>I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
>thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
>number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles
go
>back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
>much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I
can
>see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
>most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
>instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
>the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge. 
>
>I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.
>
>Bill  
>
>___
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>
>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[David Ladd via EV]

I like the miles remaining.  It's fun to play with it and see how much driving 
style affects range.  Very direct feedback.

david.



>
> From: Bill Dennis via EV 
>To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'  
>Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:43 AM
>Subject: [EVDL] Miles Remaining
> 
>
>Lee wrote:
>>But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a
>given load). 
>>That is a much more complex calculation
>
>I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
>thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
>number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles go
>back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
>much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I can
>see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
>most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
>instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
>the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge. 
>
>I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.
>
>Bill  
>
>___
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>
>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Roland via EV]

Back in 1976, The estimate range was calculated by the following method by 
Robert Aronsson CEO of Electric Fuel Propulsion Co. where I received my first 
EV call Transformer I which I still drive today. Bob Rice work at EFP at the 
time. 

In a new battery pack, drive it at least to 50% DOD for about 50 cycles which 
increases the plate area allowing current to flow deeper into the cell plates. 
This is what is call the battery break in or conditioning. 

Next, After charging the battery pack to 100% at the ideal battery temperature, 
record the resting voltage and specific gravity if it's a lead acid battery.  
Drive the EV for five miles at a level grade at the same speed and temperature  
and record the resting voltage and SG again. 

If the battery pack new, torque the battery links.  It is very common for the 
first series of 5 miles drives, the link torque may loss about 5 inch lbs.  

Run a graph of the voltage and distance travel until you reach the minimum 
voltage  you want to establish. 

As the battery pack ages, you can record the diffusion time constant and 
voltage drop.  Drive the EV for one minute and record the time it takes for the 
battery voltage recovers to its resting voltage.  Then drive it again for one 
minute and record the data again.  

Graph the diffusion time and voltage recovery.  The curved will then give you a 
estimate of range.  

Type in your search engine - Battery Diffusion - and there are several WEB 
sites that will show you how to do this method.  There is also a instrument 
that calculates the range using the diffusion data. 

All I need is a another meter and indicator on my dash which is now going over 
42 units. 

Roland  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Dennis via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 
  To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 
  Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 8:43 AM
  Subject: [EVDL] Miles Remaining


  Lee wrote:
  >But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a
  given load). 
  >That is a much more complex calculation

  I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
  thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
  number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles go
  back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
  much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I can
  see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
  most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
  instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
  the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge. 

  I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.

  Bill  

  ___
  UNSUBSCRIBE: 
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub<http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub>
  
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org<http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org>
  For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA>)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140508/afdb0b12/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Willie2 via EV]

On 05/08/2014 09:43 AM, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:

Lee wrote:

But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a

given load).

That is a much more complex calculation

I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles go
back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I can
see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge.

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.

The Leaf instrumentation is complete crap.  Tesla instrumentation is 
pretty good.  Both pale in comparison to a simple TBS type amp-hour 
counter.  With a lithium battery and a good amp-hour counter, you can 
easily mentally compute a credible miles remaining.  That's assuming you 
regularly test your battery capacity.  At any time, you will know how 
many amp-hours you have left and, therefore, how many miles you have 
left.  My Hyundai (48 TS-LFP260s) generally does better than 2 ah/mile.  
Careful driving in warm weather might yield as much as 1.6 ah/m.

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Jamie K via EV]

The LEAF has always had an empty-full gauge, consisting of stacked bars 
on the right side of the screen in front of the driver.


From 2013 forward, due to requests from drivers, there's also a numeric 
battery percentage option that can be displayed in the middle of the 
driver's screen.


You can also choose to show miles per kWh either on the middle screen or 
on the driver's screen.


LEAF owners refer to "miles remaining" as the Guess-o-meter, or GOM. 
AFAIK, the algorithm was smoothed out in 2013/14 models so the swings 
are less wild, but any such algorithm doesn't know where you're going to 
go next, what traffic will be like or the weather conditions. So if you 
drive up a mountain it will guess increasingly low, and when you come 
back down it will guess increasingly high.


The GOM is a more useful feature when driving on terrain with fewer 
changes and at more consistent speeds.


I haven't needed the built-in nav features, but I suppose if the GOM 
tied into the suggested route, and if it included data for elevation 
changes, traffic patterns and weather, it could be made to be more 
accurate even on routes that had a lot of variability.


I prefer to show battery percentage on the driver's screen because it's 
easier to grok than a stack of bars, along with miles/kWh on the middle 
screen so i can judge how efficiently I'm driving and how far that 
percentage will take me. That combination lets me use my own internal 
GOM based on knowing where I'm going and my experience with the route 
and the LEAF.


The LEAF's GOM still shows on both screens. It can be ignored when 
driving conditions are highly variable, or given more credence when 
driving conditions are more consistent.


For a newbie, it just takes a few times on any route to build 
understanding and confidence in the car. Driving then becomes routine 
enjoyment of the benefits of the smooth, quiet power of electric travel.


Cheers,
 -Jamie


On 5/8/14 8:43 AM, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:

Lee wrote:

But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a

given load).

That is a much more complex calculation


I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles go
back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I can
see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge.

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.

Bill

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)




___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Peri Hartman via EV]

It's long been a big complaint - the guess-o-meter - across many forums.
Nissan made some improvements, supposedly, but I completely agree with your
preference.

I do my own range calculations.  They aren't very accurate either but at
least I know my basis.  I have a general idea on the miles/kwh (that's the
way Nissan chose to display energy consumption) for different conditions.
So, if I know the distance I will travel and the rough distribution of
conditions, I can quickly calculate kwh.  Then, I convert that into bars:
total capacity is 24kwh and there are 12 bars so each bar is 2kwh (this
isn't exactly true, but close enough).  

For me, the crude numbers I use are:
summer city driving: 2.5 miles/kwh
summer 40mph roads: 4 miles/kwh
summer freeway (65mph): 3 miles/kwh

winter city driving: 2 miles/kwh
winter 40mph roads: 3.5miles/kwh
winter freeway (65mph): 2.5miles/kwh

I will say that my numbers, above, are pretty loose.  I always end up
consuming more bars than I estimate.  I don't know if that's because the
gage isn't linear or because I'm not including enough for overhead, such as
heat, A/C, etc.  I haven't tried to be more accurate because, So far, it has
worked well enough.

Peri

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis via EV
Sent: 08 May, 2014 7:43 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

Lee wrote:
>But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a
given load). 
>That is a much more complex calculation

I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles go
back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I can
see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge. 

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.

Bill  

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Lee wrote:
>But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a
given load). 
>That is a much more complex calculation

I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles go
back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I can
see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge. 

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.

Bill  

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)