Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-24 Thread 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List 
 Depends on how things evolve? If AI is just a machine, then it may have no 
need of us. If its a Neural Net, it might see synergy as advantageous. We 
decide, say if silk feels smooth for example or the smoothness pleases? Qualia, 
the qualitative difference that explains evolution. Meanwhile, life is still 
evolving on our world.Like you and me and the cell and the mitochondria a 
billion years ago, 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/algae-evolution-agriculture-plant-history-b2533698.html

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 06:06:54 AM EDT, John Clark 
 wrote:   

 On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 1:10 PM 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List 
 wrote:


> "AI Neural Nets and LLM's get loaded onto low-error quantum computers we at 
> least may be creating a new life, and later, merging with such, because it 
> makes for better Milky Way traveling. Like a trade off, it supplies increased 
> intellect, physical immoralism, and our part is to do the Qualia." 

I don't see why an AI would need us to supply the Qualia, it could do that on 
its own. It's easy to see the advantage we would get by merging with an AI, but 
it's much harder to see what advantage the AI would get out of the deal. 
  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

god





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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-24 Thread John Clark 
On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 10:10 PM Bruce Kellett 
wrote:

*>> Two things determine what LLAMA3 or any other AI will do. *
>> *1) The machine's environment, which in this case is the prompt which can
>> be written text, audio, a picture, or a video. *
>> *2) The way the neural network of the machine is wired up, which is
>> determined by a huge matrix of numbers that nobody understands.*
>>
>
> *> "Just because no one understands the way this is wired up does not mean
> that it is the same as a human brain."*
>

*I certainly don't believe there is one and only one way a human brain can
be wired up, if there was then we'd all be the same and we're not, some
humans are geniuses and some are imbeciles. And nobody has anything other
than a hazy coarse grained understanding about how modern Large Language
Models are wired up, but we do know a few things about them:*

*1) However modern neural networks are wired up they end up working at
least as well as how the average human's biological brain is wired up.*

*2) The way LLMs are wired up is changing and improving at an exponential
rate.  Closed source LLM GPT-3.5, which astonished everybody when it was
introduced about a year ago, had 175 billion parameters. Open source
LLAMA-3, which was introduced only a few days ago, has only 70 billion
parameters but its answers are better than GPT3.5 and almost as good as
GPT-4 with its1.8 trillion parameters. And because it's so much smaller you
need less hardware and energy to run LLAMA-3 than  GPT-3.5 , and vastly
less than GPT-4. *



> *  > "**That it has lots of parameters that are numbers is not the same
>>> as having lots of values."*
>>
>>
>> *Why not? How would the machine behave differently if having lots of
>> parameters WERE  the same as having lots of values?*
>>
>
> *> "That is not the question."*
>

*I don't know what "the question" is but I know what MY question was and I
think it was crystal clear, and yet I still have not received an answer to
it.  *

*> "If the machine behaves exactly as a human in terms of following a value
> set, then you will, by definition, see no difference. But in saying this
> you are assuming that the AI can in fact behave in this way, and that is
> just to assume the answer to the original question. Which was: Can the AI
> act according to human type values."*
>

*I don't need to assume anything, I know it is a fact because way back in
the very distant past, a full year ago, a computer was able to pass the
Turing Test. These days if a modern LLM wanted to deceive a human into
thinking he was talking to another biological person it would have to
pretend to be more stupid and ignorant then it really was and was thinking
more slowly than it really could. Yes, LLMs can still occasionally say
stupid things, but 95% of human college graduates cannot correctly explain
what causes the seasons, most said it's because the Earth is closer to the
sun in the summer than in the winter, but in the northern hemisphere
exactly the opposite is true. And Harvard graduates are not immune from
this misconception. *

  Harvard Graduates Explain Seasons


John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

mlb

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-23 Thread Bruce Kellett 
On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:45 AM John Clark  wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:23 PM Brent Meeker 
> wrote:
>
> *> "I don't think you understand "values".  They are the basis of
>> motivation,\"*
>>
>
> *And **I think you don't understand what the word "motivation" means, the
> reasons that something behaves in a particular way.  *
>
>
> * > "**What motivates LLAMA3...a prompt." *
>>
>
> *Two things determine what LLAMA3 or any other AI will do. *
>
> *1) The machine's environment, which in this case is the prompt which can
> be written text, audio, a picture, or a video. *
>
> *2) The way the neural network of the machine is wired up, which is
> determined by a huge matrix of numbers that nobody understands.*
>

Just because no one understands the way this is wired up does not mean that
it is the same as a human brain.

*And you behave the way you do because of your environment, which like the
> AI could be written text, audio, a picture, or a video, and just like the
> AI, because of the way your brain is wired up. *
>
>
>
>> *  > "**That it has lots of parameters that are numbers is not the same
>> as having lots of values."*
>
>
> *Why not? How would the machine behave differently if having lots of
> parameters WERE  the same as having lots of values?*
>

That is not the question. If the machine behaves exactly as a human in
terms of following a value set, then you will, by definition, see no
difference. But in saying this you are assuming that the AI can in fact
behave in this way, and that is just to assume the answer to the original
question. Which was: Can the AI act according to human type values (or any
values, for that matter)?

Bruce

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-23 Thread John Clark 
On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:23 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:

*> "I don't think you understand "values".  They are the basis of
> motivation,\"*
>

*And **I think you don't understand what the word "motivation" means, the
reasons that something behaves in a particular way.  *


* > "**What motivates LLAMA3...a prompt." *
>

*Two things determine what LLAMA3 or any other AI will do. *

*1) The machine's environment, which in this case is the prompt which can
be written text, audio, a picture, or a video. *

*2) The way the neural network of the machine is wired up, which is
determined by a huge matrix of numbers that nobody understands. *

*And you behave the way you do because of your environment, which like the
AI could be written text, audio, a picture, or a video, and just like the
AI, because of the way your brain is wired up. *



> *  > "**That it has lots of parameters that are numbers is not the same
> as having lots of values."*


*Why not? How would the machine behave differently if having lots of
parameters WERE  the same as having lots of values?  *

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis


nww

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-23 Thread Brent Meeker 



On 4/23/2024 2:02 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 3:18 PM Brent Meeker  
wrote:



*>> I don't see whyan AI would need us to supply the Qualia, it
could do that on its own. It's easy to see the advantage we would
get by merging with an AI, but it's much harder to see what
advantage the AI would get out of the deal.*


/"That would depend on what values the AI instantiated.  We have
values determined by billions of years of evolution"/


*And a modern AI has values determined by billions of years of random 
mutation and natural selection PLUS almost a century of intelligent 
design; I personally would mark the beginning of the computer age as 
1936, the year Alan Turing published his paper that introduced the 
concept that we now call a Turing Machine.*


***>*/ "//AIs so far have simple values"/


*Simple?! The value matrix of an AI has become so complex that no 
human being understands them, not even the people that made the AI.

*


*I don't think you understand "values".  They are the basis of 
motivation, i.e. to realized values.  What motivates LLAMA3...a prompt.  
What values does it realize...a response that maximizes some function of 
the way words fit together.  That it has lots of parameters that are 
numbers is not the same as having lots of values.


Brent
*

*
*
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis 


!>?

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-23 Thread John Clark 
On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 3:18 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:

> *>> I don't see why an AI would need us to supply the Qualia, it could do
> that on its own. It's easy to see the advantage we would get by merging
> with an AI, but it's much harder to see what advantage the AI would get out
> of the deal.*
>
>
> *"That would depend on what values the AI instantiated.  We have values
> determined by billions of years of evolution"*
>

*And a modern AI has values determined by billions of years of random
mutation and natural selection PLUS almost a century of intelligent design;
I personally would mark the beginning of the computer age as 1936, the year
Alan Turing published his paper that introduced the concept that we now
call a Turing Machine.*

  *>** "**AIs so far have simple values"*
>


*Simple?! The value matrix of an AI has become so complex that no human
being understands them, not even the people that made the AI.  *

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

!>?

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-23 Thread Brent Meeker 



On 4/23/2024 3:06 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 1:10 PM 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything 
List  wrote:


/> "AI Neural Nets and LLM's get loaded onto low-error quantum
computers we at least may be creating a new life, and later,
merging with such, because it makes for better Milky Way
traveling. Like a trade off, it supplies increased intellect,
physical immoralism, and our part is to do the Qualia."/


*I don't see whyan AI would need us to supply the Qualia, it could do 
that on its own. It's easy to see the advantage we would get by 
merging with an AI, but it's much harder to see what advantage the AI 
would get out of the deal.

*


*That would depend on what values the AI instantiated.  We have values 
determined by billions of years of evolution founded on reproduction.  
AIs so far have simple values of responding to prompts.  No much on 
which to found "advantage".


Brent
*


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis 



god


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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-23 Thread John Clark 
On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 1:10 PM 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> "AI Neural Nets and LLM's get loaded onto low-error quantum computers we
> at least may be creating a new life, and later, merging with such, because
> it makes for better Milky Way traveling. Like a trade off, it supplies
> increased intellect, physical immoralism, and our part is to do the
> Qualia."*


*I don't see why an AI would need us to supply the Qualia, it could do that
on its own. It's easy to see the advantage we would get by merging with an
AI, but it's much harder to see what advantage the AI would get out of the
deal. *

  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis


god


>

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-22 Thread Russell Standish 
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 03:19:37 PM EDT, Brent Meeker
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> So far some human has to provide motivation in the form of prompts.  Has
> anymore tried a feedback loop in which AI's responses are returned at prompts?
> 
> Brent
> 

Yes - I believe that experiment was done, and it works quite
well. Maybe several times. Possibly with a different AI doing the
prompt evolution, Red Queen style. Sorry - I can point you at a
report, it was amongst the flurry of articles about AI that have come
out in the last 12 months.

Cheers

-- 


Dr Russell StandishPhone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
  http://www.hpcoders.com.au


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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-22 Thread 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List 
 Not a clue news wise. However, I am guessing when AI Neural Nets and LLM's get 
loaded onto low-error quantum computers we at least may be creating a new life, 
and later, merging with such, because it makes for better Milky Way traveling. 
Like a trade off, it supplies increased intellect, physical immoralism, and our 
part is to do the Qualia. (Daniel Dennett). 
On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 03:19:37 PM EDT, Brent Meeker 
 wrote:  
 
  So far some human has to provide motivation in the form of prompts.  Has 
anymore tried a feedback loop in which AI's responses are returned at prompts?
 
 Brent
 
 On 4/21/2024 4:55 AM, John Clark wrote:
  
 
  On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 6:19 AM 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List 
 wrote:

  
> "I am not looking for the Singularity itself, simply a great leap in the 
> improvement in the successful use if AI in invention."
 
  There will certainly be a huge leap in invention during and after the 
Singularity, but they will be inventions made by artificial intelligence. AI 
will be the last invention the human race ever makes.  
   John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
qfq 
   
 
   

 
   
 
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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-21 Thread Brent Meeker 
So far some human has to provide motivation in the form of prompts. Has 
anymore tried a feedback loop in which AI's responses are returned at 
prompts?


Brent

On 4/21/2024 4:55 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 6:19 AM 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything 
List  wrote:


/> "I am not looking for the Singularity itself, simply a great
leap in the improvement in the successful use if AI in invention."/


*There will certainly be a huge leap in invention during and after the 
Singularity, but they will be inventions made by artificial 
intelligence. AI will be the last invention the human race ever makes. *


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis 


qfq




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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-21 Thread Brent Meeker 



On 4/21/2024 4:44 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:29 PM Brent Meeker  
wrote:




/>>> "How about the war in Ukraine, Russian hacking, global
warming,  Chinese threats in the Taiwan strait and South
China sea, and U.S. infrastructure decay?"/


*>> If the singularity happens in the next two or three years,
which doesn't sound nearly as ridiculous as it would have 18
months ago, then every one of those things is of utterly trivial
importance. *


/> The big difference is "IF".  IF Earth is hit a million ton
asteriod tomorrow the singularity will be irrelevant./


*IF an asteroid the size of Mount Everest slams into the Earth during 
the next year then that will stop the Singularity, but there is only 
about one chance in 100 million of that happening. The war in Ukraine, 
global warming, the threat to Taiwan, and decaying US infrastructure 
will NOT stop, or even significantly delay, the arrival of the 
Singularity.  But none of the dangers I mentioned in the previous two 
sentences will decide the November 5th election, the American people 
believe that the most significant dangers facing the nation today are 
excessive wokeness, the "invasion" from Mexico, and transsexuals. *


*I'm an "American people" and I think the election of Donald Trump is 
the most significant danger facing the nation, and I'm pretty sure I'm 
in the majorityI'm just not sure I'm not in the Electoral College 
majority.


Brent
*


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis 


hrr








*LLAMA 3 *BREAKS* the Industry | Government Safety Limits
Approaching | Will Groq kill NVIDIA?*






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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-21 Thread John Clark 
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 6:19 AM 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> "I am not looking for the Singularity itself, simply a great leap in the
> improvement in the successful use if AI in invention."*


*There will certainly be a huge leap in invention during and after the
Singularity, but they will be inventions made by artificial intelligence.
AI will be the last invention the human race ever makes. *

 John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

qfq


>

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-21 Thread John Clark 
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:29 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:

>
> *>>> "How about the war in Ukraine, Russian hacking, global warming,
>> Chinese threats in the Taiwan strait and South China sea, and U.S.
>> infrastructure decay?"*
>
>
> *>> If the singularity happens in the next two or three years, which
> doesn't sound nearly as ridiculous as it would have 18 months ago, then
> every one of those things is of utterly trivial importance. *
>
>
> *> The big difference is "IF".  IF Earth is hit a million ton asteriod
> tomorrow the singularity will be irrelevant.*
>

*IF an asteroid the size of Mount Everest slams into the Earth during the
next year then that will stop the Singularity, but there is only about one
chance in 100 million of that happening. The war in Ukraine, global
warming, the threat to Taiwan, and decaying US infrastructure will NOT
stop, or even significantly delay, the arrival of the Singularity.  But
none of the dangers I mentioned in the previous two sentences will decide
the November 5th election, the American people believe that the most
significant dangers facing the nation today are excessive wokeness, the
"invasion" from Mexico, and transsexuals. *

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

hrr






>
>>
>> *LLAMA 3 *BREAKS* the Industry | Government Safety Limits Approaching |
>> Will Groq kill NVIDIA?* 
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-21 Thread 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List 
 I am not looking for the Singularity itself, simply a great leap in the 
improvement in the successful use if AI in invention. What's the chance of a 
wipe out as suggested? The impact of technology, not massively improved, just 
significantly, 2 weekends ago. The Light Show over Israel. So given AI-improved 
engineering (in all things) we may give our species some reason to budge 
ourselves on religious or ideological positions? In this fashion, we may 
enhance our survival to go on to do better things. On religion-ideology, I role 
with this, personally. Not everyone's choice of course. Simple link, with the 
subject of the Universe as a neural net. Vitaly Vanchurin, U Minnesota- 
Physicist: The entire universe might be a neural network


| 
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Physicist: The entire universe might be a neural network

We live inside a neural network, he says, not a simulation — "but we might 
never know the difference."
 |

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On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 07:29:30 PM EDT, Brent Meeker 
 wrote:  
 
  
 
 On 4/20/2024 4:23 PM, John Clark wrote:
  
 
  On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:11 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:

  
  
> How about the war in Ukraine, Russian hacking, global warming,  Chinese 
>threats in the Taiwan strait and South China sea, and U.S. infrastructure 
>decay?
 
  If the singularity happens in the next two or three years, which doesn't 
sound nearly as ridiculous as it would have 18 months ago, then every one of 
those things is of utterly trivial importance.   
 The big difference is "IF".  IF Earth is hit a million ton asteriod tomorrow 
the singularity will be irrelevant.
 
 Brent
  
   
   
   John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis  utt 
  pdt   
  
  
  
  
   
 
 
  
  LLAMA 3 *BREAKS* the Industry | Government Safety Limits Approaching | Will 
Groq kill NVIDIA?
  
     
   
   
  
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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-20 Thread Brent Meeker 



On 4/20/2024 4:23 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:11 PM Brent Meeker  
wrote:



/> How about the war in Ukraine, Russian hacking, global warming, 
Chinese threats in the Taiwan strait and South China sea, and U.S.
infrastructure decay?/


*If the singularity happens in the next two or three years, which 
doesn't sound nearly as ridiculous as it would have 18 months ago, 
then every one of those things is of utterly trivial importance. *


*The big difference is "IF".  IF Earth is hit a million ton asteriod 
tomorrow the singularity will be irrelevant.


Brent
*


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis 


utt

pdt








*LLAMA 3 *BREAKS* the Industry | Government Safety Limits
Approaching | Will Groq kill NVIDIA?*





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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-20 Thread John Clark 
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:11 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:

*> How about the war in Ukraine, Russian hacking, global warming,  Chinese
> threats in the Taiwan strait and South China sea, and U.S. infrastructure
> decay?*


*If the singularity happens in the next two or three years, which doesn't
sound nearly as ridiculous as it would have 18 months ago, then every one
of those things is of utterly trivial importance.*

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

m5x



Meta (a.k.a. Facebook) released LLAMA3 just a few days ago, and it's
> amazing for three reasons:
> 1) It's tiny, it only has 70 billion parameters, GPT4 is about 1.8
> trillion parameters.
> 2) Despite its small size on AI benchmarks it's performance is just a
> smidgen below that of GPT4.
> 3) It is open source.
>
> Meta says it's performance would be even better if they trained it for
> longer but they stopped early because the company's computational
> resources are large but not infinite so they decided that compute time
> could be better spent training a 400 billion parameter version of LLAMA3,
> which they say they'll release sometime in the next couple of months, and
> in developing LLAMA4.
>
> And anybody who still thinks the Singularity is not near really needs to
> look at the following video. I'll tell you one thing, it sure makes the
> issues that most Americans believe are the most important and which will
> probably decide the November election, excessive wokeness, the "invasion"
> from Mexico, and transsexual bathrooms, seem pretty damn trivial.
>
> *LLAMA 3 *BREAKS* the Industry | Government Safety Limits Approaching |
> Will Groq kill NVIDIA?* 
>
>
> pdt
>
>
>

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-20 Thread John Clark 
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:11 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:


*> How about the war in Ukraine, Russian hacking, global warming,  Chinese
> threats in the Taiwan strait and South China sea, and U.S. infrastructure
> decay?*


*If the singularity happens in the next two or three years, which doesn't
sound nearly as ridiculous as it would have 18 months ago, then every one
of those things is of utterly trivial importance. *

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

utt

pdt



>
>
> *LLAMA 3 *BREAKS* the Industry | Government Safety Limits Approaching |
> Will Groq kill NVIDIA?* 
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: LLAMA3

2024-04-20 Thread Brent Meeker 



On 4/20/2024 8:09 AM, John Clark wrote:
Meta (a.k.a. Facebook) released LLAMA3 just a few days ago, and it's 
amazing for three reasons:
1) It's tiny, it only has 70 billion parameters, GPT4 is about 1.8 
trillion parameters.
2) Despite its small size on AI benchmarks it's performance is just a 
smidgen below that of GPT4.

3) It is open source.

Meta says it's performance would be even better if they trained it for 
longer but they stopped early because the company's computational 
resources are large but not infiniteso they decided that compute time 
could be better spent training a 400 billion parameter version of 
LLAMA3, which they say they'll release sometime in the next couple of 
months, and in developing LLAMA4.


And anybody who still thinks the Singularity is not near really needs 
to look at the following video. I'll tell you one thing, it sure makes 
the issues that most Americans believe are the most important and 
which will probably decide the November election, excessive wokeness, 
the "invasion" from Mexico, and transsexual bathrooms, seem pretty 
damn trivial.


How about the war in Ukraine, Russian hacking, global warming,  Chinese 
threats in the Taiwan strait and South China sea, and U.S. 
infrastructure decay?


Brent



*LLAMA 3 *BREAKS* the Industry | Government Safety Limits Approaching 
| Will Groq kill NVIDIA?* 


John K Clark   See what's on my new list at Extropolis 


pdt


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