[expert] Making the power button a hybernate button

2002-07-14 Thread Raider

Hello!

I recently upgraded my computer from a k6-2 to a Duron and moved on from
an AT power source to an ATX power source.

I've seen that you can suspend your computer by just hitting the power
button... and turn it back on by hitting the same button.  I've seen
this on an Win2k box.

Can this be done on my MDK8.2 as well?  I don't need all the reboot as I
rarely change anything in the hardware configuration.  And I would also
like to turn off my computer from time to time and turn it back on
without waiting for all the config files to be run.

Raider






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Re: [expert] Making the power button a hybernate button

2002-07-14 Thread kwan

On 14 Jul 2002, Raider wrote:

> I've seen that you can suspend your computer by just hitting the power
> button... and turn it back on by hitting the same button.  I've seen
> this on an Win2k box.
> 
> Can this be done on my MDK8.2 as well?  I don't need all the reboot as I
> rarely change anything in the hardware configuration.  And I would also
> like to turn off my computer from time to time and turn it back on
> without waiting for all the config files to be run.

This is a BIOS setting on my machine. I have not configured anything to
enable it but the machine sleeps and wakes up without much problem.
Occasionally I've lost the network though.




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[expert] problem with WIN2k system directories

2002-07-14 Thread W. Kasberg

After installing Mdk 8.2 I cannot look or go into windows system 
directories like winnt or programs. Those directories are shown to be empty 
(but they exist with subdirectories). This strange effect shows with a WIN2k 
and a Win98 partition both formatted with FAT32.
And ther is no difference wether as user or root.
All non-system directories can be seen and used from linux.

If I boot to the windows partition the window system works without any 
problem.

During install the following line in /etc/ fstab was automatically created 
for the WIN2k partition (and likewise for WIN98 partition):
---
"/dev/hda1 /mnt/win_c vfat iocharset=iso8859-15,umask=0,codepage=850 0 0"
---

Any hint is appreciated

W. Kasberg




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[expert] no desktop anymore, no MIME types found

2002-07-14 Thread W. Kasberg

I am using KDE302.
After trying to install Codeweaver-Wine my desktop icons vanished.
While booting to KDE3 a lot of messages appear like
"could not find mime type application/octet-stream" 
"no mime types installed" .

These errors hold on still after de-installing Codeweaver and also after 
re-install of KDE302.
Is there a chance to get it work correctly ? or will I have to install/upgrade 
again the full Mkd8.2 system?

For the moment I can use an older mkd partition.

Any help is greatly welcome.

W. Kasberg




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Re: [expert] Anti-virus for mail server--best solution for cash-strapped org?

2002-07-14 Thread Bill Randle

Last I checked, RAV Anti-Virus (http://www.ravantivirus.com) had
the best price for features for a commercial product. I am using it
(RAV for Linux Mail Servers - sendmail milter version) on three
different mail servers and have been very happy with the results.

-Bill

On Fri, 2002-07-12 at 18:13, Damon Lynch wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We have a mail server, and for the moment anyway, windows users 
> (although I'm hoping for a few Linux converts with our new terminal
> server setup :-) ).
> 
> We have a setup on the mail server where an anti-virus program can be
> called from the command line before the IMAP folders receive the mail. 
> There is no need for some complex Trend anti-virus with pre-packaged
> SMTP.  The way it was set up, normal command line mail tools still work.
> I didn't set it up and actually I don't know a lot about these things
> :-)  I just know in a situation with mail, keeping it simple and being
> able to used time honored tools can be a very good thing.
> 
> Is F-Prot viable in a setup like this?  It seems a lot cheaper than some
> other solutions.  Dev-Zone is a non-profit organisation, so these things
> count.
> 
> Damon
> -- 
> Damon Lynch
> Dev-Zone Program Officer
> http://www.dev-zone.org Jabber Messaging: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +64 4 496 9597 Yahoo Messaging:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 

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[expert] FTP Installl of 8.2 Has Issues

2002-07-14 Thread nDiScReEt

My Mandrake Control Center is broken and so is my urpmi. The "Mandrake 
Control Center" will not run  until just now! I don't understand. I had 
something similiar on cooker with konqueror and galeon, as well. Neither of 
those programs wouldn't work no matter how many times I reran the program or 
rebooted the computer. Just one day ...it works! Like just now. I tried urpmi 
and that is still broke. it supposedly puts the packages into the directory 
/var/cache/urpmi/rpms but I receive the following error:

su -c "/usr/sbin/urpmi.update -c"
Password: 
the entry to update is missing
(one of Installation CD (ftp1), Contrib CD (ftp2), Update_Source, plf)

...This is getting real silly. Now urpmi works! I think it has something to 
do with "fam" running. Maybe I should leave my computer on for a few hours to 
allow all scripts to finish running. (I should have something was "fishy" 
when the harddrive light was constantly blinking for like the longest time. I 
think that is the reason I couldn't do anything involving some privileged 
programs like drakconf and urpmi. Anyone else experience the same effects?
 



Altoine B
Maximum Time Unlimited
Chicago Based and Operated

To communicate is the beginning of understanding.
-- AT&T
---
2.4.18-6mdk
Mandrake Linux release 8.2 (Bluebird) for i586




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[expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread J. Craig Woods

Greetings,

It has been awhile since I built new rpm binaries from the kernel source
rpm package. After building kernel rpm packages from the
kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm, I have noticed that there is no
kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by design?
If the kernel headers component comes from another package, other than
the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..

Thanks,
drjung

-- 
J. Craig Woods
UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread James

oops let me correct that last one.  the kernel headers are for 2.4.18
yet nothing can find them.  Like AFS etc.  

James


On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:57:52 -0500
"J. Craig Woods" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said with temporary authority

> Greetings,
> 
> It has been awhile since I built new rpm binaries from the kernel
> source rpm package. After building kernel rpm packages from the
> kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm, I have noticed that there is no
> kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by
> design? If the kernel headers component comes from another package,
> other than the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..
> 
> Thanks,
> drjung
> 
> -- 
> J. Craig Woods
> UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
> http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
> Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson
> 
> 



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread James

Dr,
   I've got the same trouble here  when I try to build something
(like AFS) against them it says it can't find them or that they don't
match the kernel I'm using I'd like to know what gives as well. It
turns out the only Kernel headers I have are for 2.2.19...

James


On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:57:52 -0500
"J. Craig Woods" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said with temporary authority

> Greetings,
> 
> It has been awhile since I built new rpm binaries from the kernel
> source rpm package. After building kernel rpm packages from the
> kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm, I have noticed that there is no
> kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by
> design? If the kernel headers component comes from another package,
> other than the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..
> 
> Thanks,
> drjung
> 
> -- 
> J. Craig Woods
> UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
> http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
> Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson
> 
> 



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread Alexander Skwar

So sprach J. Craig Woods am 2002-07-14 um 13:57:52 -0500 :
> kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by design?

Yes, yes.

> If the kernel headers component comes from another package, other than
> the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..

[askwar@klama askwar]$ rpm -qpi /RPMS/kernel-headers-2.4.18-35mdk.i586.rpm 
Name: kernel-headers   Relocations: (not relocateable)
Version : 2.4.18Vendor: MandrakeSoft
Release : 35mdk Build Date: Tue Jul  9 08:52:32 2002
Install date: (not installed)   Build Host: no.mandrakesoft.com
Group   : Development/KernelSource RPM: glibc-2.2.5-10mdk.src.rpm
[...]

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  |Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 7 days 12 hours 18 minutes



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread Dave Sherman

On Sun, 2002-07-14 at 13:57, J. Craig Woods wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> It has been awhile since I built new rpm binaries from the kernel source
> rpm package. After building kernel rpm packages from the
> kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm, I have noticed that there is no
> kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by design?
> If the kernel headers component comes from another package, other than
> the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..
> 
> Thanks,
> drjung

Craig,

I seem to recall reading that that kernel headers are now a part of the
glibc-devel package. Can't find confirmation on that using some basic
searches, though.

-- 
Dave Sherman   Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, 
MCSE, MCSA, CCNA for you are crunchy,
 and good with ketchup.
"lynx -source http://sildara.dyndns.org/davepub.asc | gpg --import"



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Re: [expert] FTP Installl of 8.2 Has Issues

2002-07-14 Thread daRcmaTTeR

nDiScReEt wrote:
> My Mandrake Control Center is broken and so is my urpmi. The "Mandrake 
> Control Center" will not run  until just now! I don't understand. I had 
> something similiar on cooker with konqueror and galeon, as well. Neither of 
> those programs wouldn't work no matter how many times I reran the program or 
> rebooted the computer. Just one day ...it works! Like just now. I tried urpmi 
> and that is still broke. it supposedly puts the packages into the directory 
> /var/cache/urpmi/rpms but I receive the following error:
> 
> su -c "/usr/sbin/urpmi.update -c"
> Password: 
> the entry to update is missing
> (one of Installation CD (ftp1), Contrib CD (ftp2), Update_Source, plf)
> 
> ...This is getting real silly. Now urpmi works! I think it has something to 
> do with "fam" running. Maybe I should leave my computer on for a few hours to 
> allow all scripts to finish running. (I should have something was "fishy" 
> when the harddrive light was constantly blinking for like the longest time. I 
> think that is the reason I couldn't do anything involving some privileged 
> programs like drakconf and urpmi. Anyone else experience the same effects?
>  
> 

I'm a little confused here. Are you root when you're attempting to run 
these programs, and are you running them from the desktop shortcut/menu 
shortcut, or from the command line?

When I start Mandrake Control Center from the Icon either from the 
desktop or from the menu item I always have to authenticate myself as 
root user. anytime I invoke urpmi it's always on the command line in 
this manner:

urpmi  [enter]

When doing this I am already logged in as root in a console.

-- 
daRcmaTTeR
--
Registered Linux User 182496




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RE: [expert] kde and xinerama question

2002-07-14 Thread Dean S. Messing


Brian D. Klar writes:
 :: I have a Matrox G450. All I can say is I dl'ed the
 :: Matrox drivers, and powerdesk from their site.
 :: Then I had two separate desktops. With a fast
 :: config change, I could have xinerama as you stated
 :: two monitors merged to one large desktop.
 :: KDE is my DE.
 :: 
 :: Brian D. Klar - CVE
 :: OTS
 :: WPAFB

But after the "fast config change" will KDE play nice with xinerama?

For example:

 -- will the panel stretch across (yuck!) both monitors
(assuming side-by-side configuration)?

 -- Will horizontally maximised windows stop maximising when
they hit the edges of the phyiscal monitor (good)
or when they stretch across the whole logical desktop (bad)?

--  Will new windows pop up in the middle of a monitor or in the
middle of the logical desktop so that they are splayed across the two
monitors in an ugly way?


If you'd like to do the "fast config change" and test these questions
I'd very much value your results.  Also (if you try it) let me know
what version of KDE and Mdk you are running.  Thanks.

Dean



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Re: [expert] kde and xinerama question

2002-07-14 Thread Dean S. Messing

 :: Dean,
 :: 
 :: You need to recompile the kdelibs package.  When you are recompiling =
 :: it,=20
 :: ensure that --enable-xinerama is passed to the configure script.
 :: 
 :: If that does not help, contact me off the list and I will try to help =
 :: you.
 :: 
 :: Balaji

Finally!  A definite answer to my questions!
Thanks Balaji.  I'll recompile and try it immediately and let you know
offline.

Two remarks however:  (i) as I've already stated, Mdk is supposed to have
their KDE stuff already compiled this way so I'm not hopeful. (ii) In
my week of searching for answers kwin and kicker have also been mentioned
in random places as needing to be xinerama enabled.  But no one, _no one_!
ever goes into specifics of the full set of things that need
to be recompiled.  Any comments on kwin and the panel?

Dean



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread Charles A Edwards

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:57:52 -0500
"J. Craig Woods" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> It has been awhile since I built new rpm binaries from the kernel
> source rpm package. After building kernel rpm packages from the
> kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm, I have noticed that there is no
> kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by
> design? If the kernel headers component comes from another package,
> other than the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..
> 
 
kernel headers are now included as part of glibc.  

>From glibc.spec:

%package -n kernel-headers
Summary: Header files for the Linux kernel. 
Group: Development/Kernel
Epoch: 1
Version: %{kversion}
Release: %{krelease}

%description -n kernel-headers
Kernel-headers includes the C header files for the Linux kernel.  The
header files define structures and constants that are needed for
building
most standard programs.  The header files are also needed for rebuilding
the kernel.

#
# kernel-headers
#
%files -n kernel-headers
%defattr(-,root,root)
%{_includedir}/linux
%{_includedir}/asm
%{_includedir}/asm-generic
%{_includedir}/sound
/boot/kernel.h-%{kheaders_ver}

You need to install kernel-header-xxxmdk.i586.rpm for your version of
glibc unless you also wish to build it from source.


Charles

--
Success occurs when no one is looking, failure occurs when the General
is watching
-- Murphy's Military Laws n°72
--
Charles A Edwards
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--




 



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread J. Craig Woods

Alexander Skwar wrote:
> 
> So sprach J. Craig Woods am 2002-07-14 um 13:57:52 -0500 :
> > kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by design?
> 
> Yes, yes.
> 
> > If the kernel headers component comes from another package, other than
> > the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..
> 
> [askwar@klama askwar]$ rpm -qpi /RPMS/kernel-headers-2.4.18-35mdk.i586.rpm
> Name: kernel-headers   Relocations: (not relocateable)
> Version : 2.4.18Vendor: MandrakeSoft
> Release : 35mdk Build Date: Tue Jul  9 08:52:32 2002
> Install date: (not installed)   Build Host: no.mandrakesoft.com
> Group   : Development/KernelSource RPM: glibc-2.2.5-10mdk.src.rpm
> [...]

Alex, what in the hell are you saying? I should use
kernel-headers-2.4.18-35mdk.i586.rpm with the rpms I made from building
the kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm package. Now that does not make
any sense at all, my friend. My building of the kernel rpms from a src
package is for a mandrake 8.0 box, and the version for the upgrade is
the version recommended by the mandrake folks. Again, I ask, what's up,
mandrake, where in the hell are the header files for the version
kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm package?

drjung

-- 
J. Craig Woods
UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson



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Re: [expert] blocking an ip address

2002-07-14 Thread daRcmaTTeR

Michael Viron wrote:
> This depends.  Do you want to block them from services that utilize
> hosts.deny.  If so, add the ip address to /etc/hosts.deny.
> 
> Do you want to block network traffic from them entirely?  If so, use
> ipchains or iptables (depending on your kernel version) to block them.
> 
> Michael

To add to what Michael has said. If you're going to add the address to 
iptables rules to block the traffic the rule would look something like this:

iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 20:1 -s 216.0.0.0 -j DROP

-A = tells the kernel to append this rule to already existing INPUT 
table rules

INPUT = name of a table

-p = flag telling the kernel what protocol to apply this rule to. (must 
be specified when using the "--dport" argument.

tcp = protocol name

--dport = destination port where incoming packet is bound for.

20:1 = expression specifying all ports from 20 thru 1

-s = source IP address

-j = target

DROP = what to do with the packet when a match is detected.

-- 
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--
Registered Linux User 182496




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Re: [expert] kde and xinerama question

2002-07-14 Thread Dean S. Messing



Thanks Teemu, for your comments.

Teemu Torma writes:
 :: I am running 8.2 with xinerama, and it worked out of the box with kde
 :: 3.0.2 packages.  The X configurator asked me if I wanted xinerama
 :: version or just plain screen (Matrox G550).
 :: 
 :: The boxes are of course grayed out if the xinerama is not enabled on
 :: the server itself.  In kde xinerama options only tell the window
 :: manager to be aware of xinerama and make more intelligent window
 :: placement decisions.
 :: 
 :: Even without that, you should be have two screens up and running and =
 :: you should be able to move windows across the two screens at will.
 :: 
 :: Teemu

Although (as I've stated) I do have xinerama properly working (from
X's point of view), i.e., I can move windows across the two screens just fine,
it is precisely your 2nd paragraph that is the subject of my problems:
intelligent use of xinerama by KDE.

I've also read in my far-and-wide search for solutions that KDE-3.0.2
plays better with xinerama than 2.2.2.  I've considered (for a second
or two) trying to build 3.0.2 from .src.rpm packages but am a little
afraid (well, actually, _very_ afraid) of screwing up my current 2.2.2
configuration in an irreparable way if I try to install 3.0.2 on a
2.2.2 machine.

Care to share what you did to get 3.0.2 to work on Mdk 8.2?
Pointing me to a (useful) document would be sufficient but if you'd
care to share

  --  exactly which packages use compiled or installed from .rpm,
  --  whether you deleted your stock 2.2.2 installation or are running
  3.0.2 "in parallel",

and other details of this ilk, I'd be much obliged.

Dean



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread James

Great... this is not good.  

  Why.. I run Win4Lin  which means it's a non stock kernel but Mandrake
blessed and approved... so no matter what I do I can never have headers
that match my kernel.   Which means I need to go to RH or some other
distro to build an AFS server. Not cool at all from my standpoint. 
headers and kernel will never match...

James


On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:18:48 -0400
Charles A Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said with temporary authority

> On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:57:52 -0500
> "J. Craig Woods" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > It has been awhile since I built new rpm binaries from the kernel
> > source rpm package. After building kernel rpm packages from the
> > kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm, I have noticed that there is no
> > kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by
> > design? If the kernel headers component comes from another package,
> > other than the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..
> > 
>  
> kernel headers are now included as part of glibc.  
> 
> From glibc.spec:
> 
> %package -n kernel-headers
> Summary: Header files for the Linux kernel. 
> Group: Development/Kernel
> Epoch: 1
> Version: %{kversion}
> Release: %{krelease}
> 
> %description -n kernel-headers
> Kernel-headers includes the C header files for the Linux kernel.  The
> header files define structures and constants that are needed for
> building
> most standard programs.  The header files are also needed for
> rebuilding the kernel.
> 
> #
> # kernel-headers
> #
> %files -n kernel-headers
> %defattr(-,root,root)
> %{_includedir}/linux
> %{_includedir}/asm
> %{_includedir}/asm-generic
> %{_includedir}/sound
> /boot/kernel.h-%{kheaders_ver}
> 
> You need to install kernel-header-xxxmdk.i586.rpm for your version of
> glibc unless you also wish to build it from source.
> 
> 
> Charles
> 
> --
> Success occurs when no one is looking, failure occurs when the General
> is watching
>   -- Murphy's Military Laws n°72
> --
> Charles A Edwards
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread J. Craig Woods

James wrote:
> 
> Dr,
>I've got the same trouble here  when I try to build something
> (like AFS) against them it says it can't find them or that they don't
> match the kernel I'm using I'd like to know what gives as well. It
> turns out the only Kernel headers I have are for 2.2.19...
> 
> James
> 
> On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:57:52 -0500
> "J. Craig Woods" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said with temporary authority
> 
> > Greetings,
> >
> > It has been awhile since I built new rpm binaries from the kernel
> > source rpm package. After building kernel rpm packages from the
> > kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk.src.rpm, I have noticed that there is no
> > kernel headers rpm package. Is this something new, and is it by
> > design? If the kernel headers component comes from another package,
> > other than the kernel src rpm, would some kind soul please advise..
> >

H, now it gets stranger. Thanks, James, for the feedback. After
building all my kernel rpm packages from the kernel src rpm, I indeed
felt that there was trouble in MandrakeLand when there was no kernel
headers rpm. C'mon, Mandrake, you have to have kernel headers for a lot
of different programs to install "correctly", such as your AFS program,
James. I would never upgrade to a kernel that did not have header files.
Maybe one of those great mandrake kernel-coder fellas will chime in on
this one.

drjung

-- 
J. Craig Woods
UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread Charles A Edwards

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:49:20 +
James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Great... this is not good.  
> 
>   Why.. I run Win4Lin  which means it's a non stock kernel but
>   Mandrake
> blessed and approved... so no matter what I do I can never have
> headers that match my kernel.   Which means I need to go to RH or some
> other distro to build an AFS server. Not cool at all from my
> standpoint. headers and kernel will never match...
 

You are missing the point.
kernel-headers match kernel version not release.
The kernel header pkg needs to be update Only if you update the version
of glibc which you are using.
The kernel-header rpm for the version of glibc shipped with 8.2 can be
used with ALL 2.4.18 kernels.
This is why headers was split from the kernel pkg.


Charles

--
Everything you decide to do costs more than first estimated
-- Murphy's In Laws n°2
--
Charles A Edwards
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--



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Re: [expert] Making the power button a hybernate button

2002-07-14 Thread civileme

Raider wrote:

>Hello!
>
>I recently upgraded my computer from a k6-2 to a Duron and moved on from
>an AT power source to an ATX power source.
>
>I've seen that you can suspend your computer by just hitting the power
>button... and turn it back on by hitting the same button.  I've seen
>this on an Win2k box.
>
>Can this be done on my MDK8.2 as well?  I don't need all the reboot as I
>rarely change anything in the hardware configuration.  And I would also
>like to turn off my computer from time to time and turn it back on
>without waiting for all the config files to be run.
>
>Raider
>
>
>
No, that depends on ACPI, a "standard" imposed on the computing 
community by Intel which has at best alpha support in linux kernels.

As a matter of fact ACPI can cause a host of problems for the linux 
kernel at this time, like being unable to awaken from power saving and 
like stacking every single device on the same interrupt.  Disable it in 
the BIOS and adjust on Win2K for its absence, if you want linux to run 
as linux should, without problems for potentially years at a time.  My 
gateway/web-server is still up (and still has a GUI runing on it) after 
7 months.

Civileme






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Re: [expert] blocking an ip address

2002-07-14 Thread logic7

cool, thanks a lot. It's been done.

as a side note, anyone here seeing a lot of port scans and whatnot from
Asian addresses? I'm getting hit an awful lot from Japan.


- Original Message -
From: "daRcmaTTeR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] blocking an ip address


> Michael Viron wrote:
> > This depends.  Do you want to block them from services that utilize
> > hosts.deny.  If so, add the ip address to /etc/hosts.deny.
> >
> > Do you want to block network traffic from them entirely?  If so, use
> > ipchains or iptables (depending on your kernel version) to block them.
> >
> > Michael
>
> To add to what Michael has said. If you're going to add the address to
> iptables rules to block the traffic the rule would look something like
this:
>
> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 20:1 -s 216.0.0.0 -j DROP
>
> -A = tells the kernel to append this rule to already existing INPUT
> table rules
>
> INPUT = name of a table
>
> -p = flag telling the kernel what protocol to apply this rule to. (must
> be specified when using the "--dport" argument.
>
> tcp = protocol name
>
> --dport = destination port where incoming packet is bound for.
>
> 20:1 = expression specifying all ports from 20 thru 1
>
> -s = source IP address
>
> -j = target
>
> DROP = what to do with the packet when a match is detected.
>
> --
> daRcmaTTeR
> --
> Registered Linux User 182496
>
>
>






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> Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
>




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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread J. Craig Woods

Charles A Edwards wrote:
> 
> 
> kernel headers are now included as part of glibc.
> 
> 
> You need to install kernel-header-xxxmdk.i586.rpm for your version of
> glibc unless you also wish to build it from source.
> 
> Charles

Okay, let's try to simplify this situation. As previously stated, I am
attempting to upgrade my kernel on a LMDK 8.0 box. The Mandrake security
recommendation states to upgrade to kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk. OK,
simple enough, I wget the kernel src rpm, and build my rpm binaries. OK,
so far? Now I realize there are is NO kernel headers rpm. My LMDK 8.0
has the upgraded glibc rpms, i.e. glibc-2.2.2-6.1mdk (glibc, profile,
and devel included). OK, so far? Now where do I find the version of
kernel headers that match my glibc level? And, Charles, are you saying
that is must be named kernel-headers with the current glibc version
numbers in the name, i.e. kernel-headers-2.2.2-6.1mdk? Mandrake has lost
me, please refer me to the documentation on this radical change in
building a set of kernel rpms. I have searched high and low only to find
nothing, not even on the mandrake kernel upgrade page. Thanks to all who
are contributing to this thread. I fear James may be right in saying
that mandrake has foobarred us with this new strategy. I hope I am
wrong 

drjung 

-- 
J. Craig Woods
UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread James

Charles Maybe so... but unfortunately, it doesn't work when building
AFS.  The probram there can't find the headers.  Period.  Can on RH can
on SuSe can on Gentoo but not mandrake.  I have the following.

kernel-source-2.4.18-6mdk
kernel-headers-2.4.18-25mdk
kernel-2.4.18.6mdk-1-1mdk

and glibc is

glibc-devel-2.2.4-25mdk
glibc-profile-2.2.4-25mdk
glibc-2.2.4-25mdk
glibc_lsb-devel-2.2.90-4mdk
glibc_lsb-2.2.90-4mdk


The error in compiling is that 2.4.18-6 doesn't match 2.4.18-25.
hence the problem... Now if headers are in glibc and I upgrade to say a
2.6 kernel I'll really be out of whack because I can't go to a glibc
Higher since they are all now built with gcc 3.0 not 2.96 (short of
re-installing the entire OS) . I understand the logic  however
any logical conclusion begins with a premise... and all premises do
reach an end.  The problem is compatibility.  When Linux was
pre-mainstream it wasn't as big an issue because it had little effect. 
But when companies start basing their entire company's data structure on
Linux it's an unbelievably important one.  Why else would there still be
companies running 35 year old Cobol programs?  Lack of a way to
upgrade.

James



On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:17:56 -0400
Charles A Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said with temporary authority

> On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:49:20 +
> James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Great... this is not good.  
> > 
> >   Why.. I run Win4Lin  which means it's a non stock kernel but
> >   Mandrake
> > blessed and approved... so no matter what I do I can never have
> > headers that match my kernel.   Which means I need to go to RH or
> > some other distro to build an AFS server. Not cool at all from
> > my standpoint. headers and kernel will never match...
>  
> 
> You are missing the point.
> kernel-headers match kernel version not release.
> The kernel header pkg needs to be update Only if you update the
> version of glibc which you are using.
> The kernel-header rpm for the version of glibc shipped with 8.2 can be
> used with ALL 2.4.18 kernels.
> This is why headers was split from the kernel pkg.
> 
> 
> Charles
> 
> --
> Everything you decide to do costs more than first estimated
>   -- Murphy's In Laws n°2
> --
> Charles A Edwards
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> --
> 
> 



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Re: [expert] kde and xinerama question

2002-07-14 Thread Teemu Torma

On Sunday 14 July 2002 22:35, Dean S. Messing wrote:
> Although (as I've stated) I do have xinerama properly working (from
> X's point of view), i.e., I can move windows across the two screens just 
> fine,
> it is precisely your 2nd paragraph that is the subject of my problems:
> intelligent use of xinerama by KDE.

Ok, I just never read earlier posts, I am simply getting too many mailing 
lists and reading them whenever feeling like it.

> I've also read in my far-and-wide search for solutions that KDE-3.0.2
> plays better with xinerama than 2.2.2.  I've considered (for a second
> or two) trying to build 3.0.2 from .src.rpm packages but am a little
> afraid (well, actually, _very_ afraid) of screwing up my current 2.2.2
> configuration in an irreparable way if I try to install 3.0.2 on a
> 2.2.2 machine.

I have noticed that any kde upgrade (I've been running it since 1.0 betas) 
screws the setup somehow...  best to backup always .kde* and Desktop* 
directories.  From system point nothing is screwed by installing kde3--only 
your personal setup may be broken in kde2 if you start using kde3.

> Care to share what you did to get 3.0.2 to work on Mdk 8.2?
> Pointing me to a (useful) document would be sufficient but if you'd
> care to share
>
>   --  exactly which packages use compiled or installed from .rpm,
>   --  whether you deleted your stock 2.2.2 installation or are running
>   3.0.2 "in parallel",

I have never bothered to compile them myself.  But currently I have installed 
the "official" mdk 8.2 rpm's from ftp.kde.org plus texstar's addons on three 
machines, one of them running dual-head xinerama.  I have always removed 
kdebase-2.2.2 package to avoid the annoying konsole-noxft problem.  I don't 
know any other problems if you want to keep full kde2 installation too.

So far I have not even thought to use kde2 again, since konqueror is much 
better, kmail works so much better with imap, printing system with cups is 
the first time something that actually works (not that I have never printed 
anything but test pages--if I have something in the computer, why bother 
printing it?)

Earlier kde3 releases were really big pain, but current 3.0.2 seems to run 
quite smoothly.  

> and other details of this ilk, I'd be much obliged.

- Edit /etc/X11/prefdm to add /opt/kde3/bin at the beginning of the path to 
get kde3 kdm.

- Edit /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 to have proper KDEDIR (/opt/kde3), otherwise it 
will not call kdmdesktop and will launch xconsole.  This happens if you 
remove kdebase 2.2.

- Edit /opt/kde3/bin/startkde and remove kpersonalizer section--otherwise it 
may pop up every time you log in.

- You may have to either manually or by as root via kontrol center to add KDE3 
session to kdm.

That's all that comes to my mind right now.  I hope it helps.

Teemu





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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread Alexander Skwar

So sprach J. Craig Woods am 2002-07-14 um 15:37:06 -0500 :
> Alex, what in the hell are you saying? I should use

I said, that the glibc package creates the kernel-headers package.  This
has been changed some time ago.  I don't remember the exact reason, but
search the Cooker list and you'll find the answer.

I used kernel-headers-2.4.18-35mdk.i586.rpm because that's the most
current one on my cooker PC.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  |Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 7 days 13 hours 25 minutes



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Re: [expert] Making the power button a hybernate button

2002-07-14 Thread FemmeFatale

Raider wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I recently upgraded my computer from a k6-2 to a Duron and moved on from
> an AT power source to an ATX power source.
> 
> I've seen that you can suspend your computer by just hitting the power
> button... and turn it back on by hitting the same button.  I've seen
> this on an Win2k box.
> 

Usually this is a Bios Function.  Get in there & Look for power
management features.

-- 
Femme

Good Decisions You boss Made:

"We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux.  I've always liked that
character from Peanuts."

- Source: Dilbert




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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread Charles A Edwards

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:55:34 +
James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Charles Maybe so... but unfortunately, it doesn't work when building
> AFS.  The probram there can't find the headers.  Period.  Can on RH
> can on SuSe can on Gentoo but not mandrake.  I have the following.
> 
 
what asf exactly are you trying to build?
Are you referring to Apache or asf video and what version are you trying
to compile?


Charles

--
Om began to feel the acute depression that steals over every realist
in the presence of an optimist.
(Small Gods)
--
Charles A Edwards
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread Charles A Edwards

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:40:07 -0500
"J. Craig Woods" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 
> 
> Okay, let's try to simplify this situation. As previously stated, I am
> attempting to upgrade my kernel on a LMDK 8.0 box. The Mandrake
> security recommendation states to upgrade to
> kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk. OK, simple enough, I wget the kernel src
> rpm, and build my rpm binaries. OK, so far? Now I realize there are is
> NO kernel headers rpm. My LMDK 8.0 has the upgraded glibc rpms, i.e.
> glibc-2.2.2-6.1mdk (glibc, profile, and devel included). OK, so far?
> Now where do I find the version of kernel headers that match my glibc
> level? And, Charles, are you saying that is must be named
> kernel-headers with the current glibc version numbers in the name,
> i.e. kernel-headers-2.2.2-6.1mdk? Mandrake has lost me, please refer
> me to the documentation on this radical change in building a set of
> kernel rpms. I have searched high and low only to find nothing, not
> even on the mandrake kernel upgrade page. Thanks to all who are
> contributing to this thread. I fear James may be right in saying that
> mandrake has foobarred us with this new strategy. I hope I am
> wrong 
 
kernel-headers Was Not apart of glibc prior to 8.2

kernel-2.4.18.8.2 was an update kernel built specifically for 8.0 and
done on an 8.0 system.
Since there is no update kernel-header rpm I can only assume that it is
built to work with
the stock 8.0 kernel-header.
An easy test it to see if you can build the NVIDIA_kernel.src.rpm.
If you can then everything with is OK.

Putting kernel-headers in glibc was not a Mandrake thing.
This is an across the board change that will affect all distros.
Mandrake 8.2 and RH 7.3 are already at this level, I have no first hand
knowledge of any of the others, so I can not speak to their current
releases.
But they too, unless they choose to say dead in the water, will change
since providing an update glibc and kernel packages will require it.


Charles

--
The girl who swears no one has ever made love to her has a right to
swear.
-- Sophia Loren
--
Charles A Edwards
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
 




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Re: [expert] blocking an ip address

2002-07-14 Thread daRcmaTTeR

logic7 wrote:
> cool, thanks a lot. It's been done.
> 
> as a side note, anyone here seeing a lot of port scans and whatnot from
> Asian addresses? I'm getting hit an awful lot from Japan.
> 
>

yes, actually I have. most of the traffic has been hitting my ftp server 
though. they're mostly probe connections trying to see where i'm weak 
and if there's a place that they can get in to setup shop and load a 
back door. damn lamers! I've taken to blocking whole subnets that are 
listed in the whois.apnic.net as being assigned to korea, japan, china, 
and of course everyone's favorite taiwan.

-- 
daRcmaTTeR
--
Registered Linux User 182496




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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread J. Craig Woods

Charles A Edwards wrote:
> 
> 
> kernel-headers Was Not apart of glibc prior to 8.2
> 
> kernel-2.4.18.8.2 was an update kernel built specifically for 8.0 and
> done on an 8.0 system.

Absolutely correct, and that is why I was going to use it. I have
upgraded my 8.0 kernel once in the past so it is not the stock install
kernel. It is currently upgraded to version kernel-2.4.8-31.2mdk. I
think, until some one from mandrake chimes in, I will leave it at this
level.

> Since there is no update kernel-header rpm I can only assume that it is
> built to work with
> the stock 8.0 kernel-header.
> An easy test it to see if you can build the NVIDIA_kernel.src.rpm.
> If you can then everything with is OK.

The point you make is exactly why it would be nice to hear from mandrake
about the issue of compatibility between new kernel upgrade, and if this
new kernel can use headers from an older kernel package. At this time, I
do not feel much like hacking around on a laptop system, especially one
that I spent considerable time hacking on to get pcmcia services to work
nicely.

> 
> Putting kernel-headers in glibc was not a Mandrake thing.
> This is an across the board change that will affect all distros.
> Mandrake 8.2 and RH 7.3 are already at this level, I have no first hand
> knowledge of any of the others, so I can not speak to their current
> releases.
> But they too, unless they choose to say dead in the water, will change
> since providing an update glibc and kernel packages will require it.

I do *now* understand this much better, and that is in no small part due
to your excellent and very helpful replies, Charles, and et al. There is
still no excuse, that I can think of, for mandrake not to make headers
files for a kernel version that has not yet moved into the new kernel
methodology. Just my two cents worth...

Thanks to all that helped,
drjung

-- 
J. Craig Woods
UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson



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Re: [expert] Making the power button a hybernate button

2002-07-14 Thread Gary Dunn

On 14 Jul 2002 14:18:40 +0300, Raider wrote:
...
> I've seen that you can suspend your computer by just hitting the power
> button... and turn it back on by hitting the same button.  I've seen
> this on an Win2k box.
> 
> Can this be done on my MDK8.2 as well?  I don't need all the reboot as I
> rarely change anything in the hardware configuration.  And I would also
> like to turn off my computer from time to time and turn it back on
> without waiting for all the config files to be run.

I agree with this concept for desktops, even more so laptops. 

LM 8.1 on my Sony VAIO PCG-SR7K laptop sort of understands suspend mode, but there are 
some issues to resolve before it is really useful.

o I can enter suspend by pressing Fn+Esc or sliding the power switch off. I don't 
see any difference.

o I can resume by pressing any key (I recommend shift to minimize surprise) or 
sliding the power switch.

o When my session restarts the time switches from local to gmt. hwclock --hctosys 
corrects, but must su first.

o USB mouse stops working, touchpad mouse works. Only way to get USB mouse back is 
to reboot (restart X). BTW, cat /dev/usbmouse shows data arriving, so fault must be 
with X.

o 802.11B PC-CARD NIC works.

I would like a hibernate option, too (write out session to HD and full powerdown) but 
suspend is more importent for mobil use.

 --+---+---+--
Gary Dunn
Open Slate Project
http://www.aloha.com/~knowtree/





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Re: [expert] Assertion failure in journal_unmap_buffer

2002-07-14 Thread tarvid

> Got one of these this morning.
>
> Assertion failure in journal_unmap_buffer() at transaction.c:1857:
> "transaction == journal->j_running_transaction"
>
>  Linux horace 2.4.18-6mdk #1 Fri Mar 15 02:59:08 CET 2002 i686 unknown
>
> Should I update?
>
> ftp://samnite/pub/mandrake/updates/8.2/RPMS/kernel-2.4.18.8.1mdk-1-3mdk.i586.rpm
>
> Jim Tarvid
After upgrading, I got another one today

Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address fffc 2.4.18-8.1

I used this box as a workstation for several weeks. Is it unsuitable as a
server?

Jim Tarvid





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[expert] 8.2 and menudrake kill multi-head display and screw up menus and clock

2002-07-14 Thread Hoyt

I'm using 8.2 with the smp kernel (Tyan S2466 2xAthlon MP1600+) and a Matrox 
G450 for two heads and Voodoo3 PCI for the third head.

If I use menudrake to add a program, not only do I immediately drop to the 
"dumbed down" menu, I lose displays :0.1 and :0.2 after logging back in and 
the system becomes unstable (especially kmail and konqueror). Deleting the 
~/.kde/share/applink* directories restores everything. Almost.

As an after-effect, the time display in :0.2 reads 4 hours ahead of the other 
two displays.

Very, very strange.

-- 
Hoyt

http://www.maximumhoyt.com

Fix it until it breaks.



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Re: [expert] FTP Installl of 8.2 Has Issues

2002-07-14 Thread nDiScReEt

On Sunday 14 July 2002 3:02 pm, daRcmaTTeR wrote:
> I'm a little confused here. Are you root when you're attempting to run
> these programs, and are you running them from the desktop shortcut/menu
> shortcut, or from the command line?
>
> When I start Mandrake Control Center from the Icon either from the
> desktop or from the menu item I always have to authenticate myself as
> root user. anytime I invoke urpmi it's always on the command line in
> this manner:
>
>   urpmi  [enter]
>
> When doing this I am already logged in as root in a console.

I try "Mandrake Control Center" from both the GUI menu and from command line 
(ie /usr/X11R6/bin/drakconf). In both cases I can get the GUI password prompt 
but it will not go any further then that until earlier today. Now my only 
problem is getting urpmi to behave correctly. I get errors saying that some 
files are missing and that I need to update my database. I do that with the 
following command:

/usr/sbin/urpmi.update -a
or
/usr/sbin/urpmi.update -cf

This still doesn't change the error message even though it would load the 
files but not show in the directory (most of the sometimes ...very 
inconsistant but it really depends on the media even though they are all 
coming from the same directory) /var/cache/urpmi/rpms. I do all urpmi from 
command line. I am always doing urpmi and drakconf functions always as root.


-- 

Altoine B
Maximum Time Unlimited
Chicago Based and Operated

"I may kid around about drugs, but really, I take them seriously."
- Doctor Graper
---
2.4.18-21mdk
Mandrake Linux release 8.3 (Cooker) for i586





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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread nDiScReEt

On Sunday 14 July 2002 4:40 pm, J. Craig Woods wrote:

> Okay, let's try to simplify this situation. As previously stated, I am
> attempting to upgrade my kernel on a LMDK 8.0 box. The Mandrake security
> recommendation states to upgrade to kernel-2.4.18.8.2mdk-1-3mdk. OK,
> simple enough, I wget the kernel src rpm, and build my rpm binaries. OK,
> so far? Now I realize there are is NO kernel headers rpm. My LMDK 8.0
> has the upgraded glibc rpms, i.e. glibc-2.2.2-6.1mdk (glibc, profile,
> and devel included). OK, so far? Now where do I find the version of
> kernel headers that match my glibc level? And, Charles, are you saying
> that is must be named kernel-headers with the current glibc version
> numbers in the name, i.e. kernel-headers-2.2.2-6.1mdk? Mandrake has lost
> me, please refer me to the documentation on this radical change in
> building a set of kernel rpms. I have searched high and low only to find
> nothing, not even on the mandrake kernel upgrade page. Thanks to all who
> are contributing to this thread. I fear James may be right in saying
> that mandrake has foobarred us with this new strategy. I hope I am
> wrong
>
> drjung

If you recompiled the kernel as you have stated. Simply type this command:

ls /boot/kern*

if you can see anything along the lines of kernel.h or kernel.h-(kernel 
version). There you will find your kernel headers alla no kernel header rpm. 
Thus, hopefully that will shed some light on the concept of the revised 
kernel-header-rpm-with-the-glibc -marriage concept.
-- 

Altoine B
Maximum Time Unlimited
Chicago Based and Operated

Good day for a change of scene.  Repaper the bedroom wall.
---
2.4.18-21mdk
Mandrake Linux release 8.3 (Cooker) for i586





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Re: [expert] kde and xinerama question

2002-07-14 Thread nDiScReEt

On Sunday 14 July 2002 4:56 pm, Teemu Torma wrote:
> - Edit /etc/X11/prefdm to add /opt/kde3/bin at the beginning of the path to
> get kde3 kdm.
>
> - Edit /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 to have proper KDEDIR (/opt/kde3), otherwise
> it will not call kdmdesktop and will launch xconsole.  This happens if you
> remove kdebase 2.2.
>
> - Edit /opt/kde3/bin/startkde and remove kpersonalizer section--otherwise
> it may pop up every time you log in.
>
> - You may have to either manually or by as root via kontrol center to add
> KDE3 session to kdm.
>
> That's all that comes to my mind right now.  I hope it helps.
>
> Teemu

Thank you, Teemu. Your fix for the kpersonalizer saved me the trouble of 
figuring it out for one of my new linux converts. I had just picked up his 
computer to troubleshoot that annoying wizard (after everytime you get real 
annoyed real quick).

-- 

Altoine B
Maximum Time Unlimited
Chicago Based and Operated

Generosity and perfection are your everlasting goals.
---
2.4.18-21mdk
Mandrake Linux release 8.3 (Cooker) for i586





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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread James

ASF, as in Andrews File System... Its a distributed file system made
opensource courtesy of IBM.  Sorry for assuming the product was clear.  

James


On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:48:45 -0400
Charles A Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said with temporary authority

> On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:55:34 +
> James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Charles Maybe so... but unfortunately, it doesn't work when building
> > AFS.  The probram there can't find the headers.  Period.  Can on RH
> > can on SuSe can on Gentoo but not mandrake.  I have the
> > following.
> > 
>  
> what asf exactly are you trying to build?
> Are you referring to Apache or asf video and what version are you
> trying to compile?
> 
> 
> Charles
> 
> --
> Om began to feel the acute depression that steals over every realist
> in the presence of an optimist.
> (Small Gods)
> --
> Charles A Edwards
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> --
> 
> 



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Re: [expert] kernel header package?

2002-07-14 Thread James


> If you recompiled the kernel as you have stated. Simply type this
> command:
> 
> ls /boot/kern*
> 
> if you can see anything along the lines of kernel.h or
> kernel.h-(kernel version). There you will find your kernel headers
> alla no kernel header rpm. Thus, hopefully that will shed some light
> on the concept of the revised kernel-header-rpm-with-the-glibc
> -marriage concept.-- 

OK! this may solve my problem as well... This matches my kernel ... now
the question comes Does this mean that Mandrake has to build a new
glibc for every older distro when 2.6 comes out?  Or do they just never
receive the benefit of a new kernel?  Same thing for RH ... I know of a
location with 3 2000 box clusters (yep they do monstrous calculations)
and they are all RH 7.2.  I don't mean to sound cynical or stupid.(never
do but it often happens so I apologize.)  But I just spent about 8 days
editing code because one of our marketing people came up with a great
idea for the names of the directories in the product. (No one will ever
see or care... the idiot is a windwoze user any way. *grin*)  Most of
the trouble was the fact that I gave a hoot about backwards
compatibility and even though our user base is small I'm a nut about
making sure that we don't break anyone . anywhere. anytime.  
Heck I even went to terms with the web people because you couldn't see
the website correctly in 4.x Netscape.  (it also wasn't w3c compliant
then but by golly it is now!) So this is where my hesitation comes
from.  As our user base grows the number of Users with legacy systems
that they can't "wipe and re-install" will grow.  I upgraded a working
2.8 FreeBSD system the other day to 4.5 ... while running and except for
the reboot time it never dropped a beat.  Try that one with WindWoze. 
Backwards compatibility and data preservation is a must for all of us.

James



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