[FairfieldLife] Flaccid Mind Syndrome (was Re: Ode to Intentional Character Building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was thinking about this incredible poem by Rudyard Kipling > today, which I memorized in high school. It was written by a > man who believed wholly in free will and our power as individuals > to create a better destiny, even a better character, for ourselves. > A pretty unpopular concept these days when zombiefication is > excused on the grounds of predetermination. Zombie aspirants, > read this and weep. This is the kind of muster you sell out on: Bronte, Since you clearly didn't get the point I was trying to make earlier, here's an example of it, in your own words. In this post you are *trying* to present something you feel is inspiring, a nice poem. Laudable. But you can't even do *that* without flaming someone: "Zombie aspirants, read this and weep." A lot of people in the world are afflicted, in my opinion, with Flaccid Mind Syndrome. They have come to believe that bitching about something they con- sider negative is the same thing as doing something positive. It isn't. It's just being lazy. *Anyone* can complain, and find things to bitch about. But it's a different order of thinking to suggest solutions for problems instead of affixing blame for the problems, to present new ideas instead of criticizing the old ones. It's *just* preference on my part, not an attempt to declare some kind of "rule" or "should" on others, but I find myself far more impressed by those who are able to present solutions than those who harp on and on and on and on and on and on about problems. I find myself more drawn to those who seem to have new ideas than those who seem to have made a career out of badrapping the old ones. They (the ones who don't fall into the trap of believing that criticizing the negative is positivity) can still "get it up" mentally, in my opinion. Those who keep bashing away at all the things they think are wrong without ever suggesting something right are like guys waving around a limp dick and trying to convince everyone they've got a hardon. > The poem is called "If." > > If you can keep your head when all about you > Are losing theirs and blaming it on you; > If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, > But make allowance for their doubting too; > If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, > Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, > Or being hated, don't give way to hating, > And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: > > If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master; > If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim; > If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster > And treat those two imposters just the same; > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, > Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, > And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools; > > If you can make one heap of all your winnings > And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, > And lose, and start again at your beginnings > And never breathe a word about your loss; > If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew > To serve your turn long after they are gone, > And so hold on when there is nothing in you > Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" > > If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, > Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch, > If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, > If all men count with you, but none too much; > If you can fill the unforgiving minute > With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -- > Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, > And -- which is more -- you'll be a man, my son. > > - by Rudyard Kipling > > > > - > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: RIP Sri Chinmoy
I received a full slice of cake SC blessed that was being passed out- doesn't that count as an Enlightening Experience? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But are SC's enlightened status as experienced by you > and his "dick play" as experienced by someone else > somehow mutually exclusive? I don't think they are. > And also, what do you mean when you say you "received > full enlightenment from him"? > > --- pranamoocher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I don't believe in these rumors at all. > > I received full enlightenment from him in NYC in > > 1975. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- amarnath wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "authfriend" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Died Thursday at the age of 72 of a heart > > attack. > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my highest respects to a beautiful God-Realized > > > > being. > > > > I attended a few of his peace concerts and > > always > > > > felt > > > > His Deep Peace and Love in my heart > > > > > > > > a friend of mine, and his wife and daughter, > > > > were his disciples > > > > and the personal guidance that they received, > > > > even while meditating at home, > > > > was very impressive. > > > > > > > > Sri Chinmoy was a wonderful "personal" guru, > > > > if one resonated with Him. > > > > > > > > I read just a few of his books that resonated > > with > > > > me; > > > > they were extremely helpful. > > > > > > > > A unique God-Realized life well lived > > > > only to be admired, respected and loved > > > > as a beautiful expression of the Self. > > > > > > > > Om Shanti, > > > > anatol > > > > > > Yeah, but what about all his dick play? There's a > > zen > > > koan for ya to chew on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Or go to: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the > > Internet in your pocket: > > mail, news, photos & more. > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting >
[FairfieldLife] Who is "in control" of our lives?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mainstream, maybe I am doing injustice to Curtis, I am > certainly not doubting his creative process. Its simply my > understanding of atheism as a philosophy of life. Religion, > any religion certainly questions the independence of our > mind /ego (while I am aware that Christianity makes it a > special point that God gave man freedom of decision - not > my belief) and makes it dependent on another entity, atheism > asserts us that we alone are in control of our lives. At > least thats what I have understood it to mean until now. Michael, I have to say that I think the problem is, as you state, in your understanding of atheism. Are the world's 500 million Buddhists atheists? Technically, they are. Their philosophy has no need to postulate a Creator or "another entity" that is in control of their lives. They see life as the eternal interplay of two forces -- karma and free will. Those two forces account for every phenomenon you can name or point to in the universe, without the need for a God or "another entity" to be "responsible" for it. At the same time, would you say that Buddhists feel separate from the world, or "independent" from it? I certainly wouldn't. My experience has shown me that they tend to feel more of a sense of inter- dependence between all sentient beings than most people who go around talking about their belief in a God and how separate He/She/It is from them. There is also no inherent belief in atheism that "I am in charge of my life." I'm pretty sure than any New Orleans atheist who lived through Katrina doesn't believe that. What they are in charge of is how they handle what life throws at them. They tend, in my experience, to *take responsibility* for handling those setbacks and challenges, and neither blame God for them nor ask Him/Her/It for help in dealing with them. They just deal with them. Myself, I think it's all about preference. After 40+ years on a spiritual path, I have no need to postulate any kind of a God. I have never encountered a single phenomenon that requires the existence of a God to explain it. Therefore, using Occam's Razor, if a God is not necessary to explain the world I see around me, it is far more likely that there isn't one than that there is one. But basically, when it comes to God, I just don't care. If there is one, fine; if there isn't, fine. What I believe about the matter doesn't affect God (if there is one) one way or another, and what He/She/It (if there is one) thinks about me doesn't affect me one way or another. My perception -- at every level of state of consciousness I have ever experience, which covers quite a range -- is that no God is necessary to explain how the world looks from that POV. So why waste time thinking about one? Others feel differently, that's fine in my book. They can base their lives on the belief that they aren't in control of them all they want. And guess what...if that's what you believe, that's what will happen. If you believe that God does everything and that you don't have much of a choice in the matter, you'll probably sit around on your ass most of your life waiting for Him/Her/It *to* do something, to "show you a sign" or "help out" or "take care of these problems for me." I call it the "Beam me up, Scotty" theory of spirit- uality. *Scotty* is in charge, not me. It's all up to Scotty, and all I can do is praise him and hope that he beams me to the right place. Sorry, not my idea of fun, or of a productive way of living one's life. But your mileage may vary. > Curtis is never tired to point out that he regards the > same mystical experiences many of us share in a different > way and strips them of any religious meaning they could > have. In fact he tries to understand them rationally > only, as I believe. Thus he places ratio[nality] highest, > and I always understood this to mean a place where > intellect is 'in control' And, if you are right and he is wrong, that is GOD doing all that. Curtis doesn't have a CHOICE, right? He's just a meat puppet doing the will of God. So it's GOD who is saying these things, according to what you believe, not Curtis. Curtis, in the view that I think you're trying to promote, *has* no individuality or individual free will with which *TO* say or think any of these things. God is doing it all, is sitting there with His hand up Curtis' shirt using him as a kind of Howdy Doody puppet, throwing His voice and making it seem as if Curtis is saying these things. Right? I mean, if you really believe the things you're saying, that's the bottom line, right? So by complain- ing about or taking issue with the things that Curtis says, YOU ARE BITCHING ABOUT GOD. My advice to you, given your belief system, is to lighten up, dude...or He might decide to smite you. My advice to Curtis is to keep thinking for himself, because he obviously still can. [ The preceding was just a fun litt
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 9:54 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > Hi Vaj, what you are doing is cherry picking your 'evidence', to > > support your opinion. Do you know for certain that all of the > > Masters and teachers of what you call "numerous enlightenment > > traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in > > undiluted fashion", are free of the same behaviors that you accuse > > Maharishi of? > > Integrity of a teacher is important to me, that's all. As long as you do not have to practise intgerity yourself.
[FairfieldLife] Re: more meditating school info with my apology to chris
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > On Behalf Of mainstream20016 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 11:59 AM > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: more meditating school info with > > my > > > > apology to > > > > > chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the reassurance that SatYug is nigh at hand, through > > the > > > > > inevitability and > > > > > necessity of India's role to bring all good to all of us - > > Great ! > > > > Wonderful > > > > > ! I look forward to > > > > > cathcing the rays of a global bath of beneficent light. Yet, as > > a > > > > > practicality, it would be a > > > > > good thing, and wise, to have a direct hand in raising one's > > > > consciousness. > > > > > So I advocate > > > > > for wide-spread individual TM practice in the West, yet that > > cannot > > > > happen > > > > > if TMO remains > > > > > an overtly religious organization. TM has, and can again, be > > taught > > > > honestly > > > > > and > > > > > effectively as a secular technique. As the last thirty-two > > years > > > > has shown, > > > > > unless TM is > > > > > taught as a secular technique, it's impact will be nill, > > > > notwithstanding the > > > > > coming glories > > > > > of SatYug. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me Pandora's box has been opened. Even if the TMO were > > to > > > > try to > > > > > scale back and present TM as a secular technique, critics would > > be > > > > able to > > > > > present all sorts of evidence that for decades, it has been > > > > associated with > > > > > Hindu and various wacky things. The TMO would be accused of > > trying > > > > to hide > > > > > all that for marketing purposes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > You are, naturally, missing the point of what's happening > > completely. > > > > It does not matter how people in the West perceive TM -- it's > > enough > > > > that a few people, aided by the presence of pundits, are doing TM > > in > > > > the West -- it's only necessary that a few candles have been lit > > > > throughout the world, and that has been accomplished. India alone > > can > > > > be responsible for the transition to a Vedic culture, Sat Yuga, > > and > > > > in India semantics about TM as religion are meaningless. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob, the ideas that: all is well...that everything is now being > > taken care of to bring Sat > > > Yug made possible from India raise doubt in me, even > > though I fully support and > > > encourage whoever is involved in raising consciousness. Westerners > > who financially > > > support the TMO have likely been given similar reassurances while > > making donations, and > > > the donors have come to expect full-well the large degree to which > > resources in the > > > movement are funnelled out of the West. > > > I suspect your perspective has few adherents. > > > > > > Why not encourage the widespread direct > > > experience of TM ? > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > Because the West is too encased in ignorance -- as is obvious on this > > list from the many people who have dumped TM, there is a limit to how > > much light people living in dense ignorance can tolerate, and so it's > > just not possible to enable a more enlightened world on the basis of > > a lot of people outside India learning TM. > > > > Even in India, of course, life is lived in dense ignorance, but India > > is the home of the Ved, the natural place for a revival of Vedic > > civilization, and the people will respond favorably when the pundits > > open up a little more light there. > > > > So, the West is relegated to catching a few rays of light - and told it is ignorant and unable > to tolerate higher states of consciousness directly, and therefore impossible for the West > to contribute to a more enlighened world by widely learning TM. Go ahead, tell us what > you really think about the West. geez. > > In contrast, I think the West, particularly the U.S., is in great need of TM, and will adopt TM > broadly when it as a firmly presented as a secular technique, ala TM instruction prior to > 1976, when the overtly religious TM-Sidhi program instruction began. No, the West won't > adopt overtly religious programs, but that doesn't make the West ignorant - it makes it > prudent, wise, and relevant. It's time, again, for a full-scale,
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Also it is very non-traditional to not use Om (omkara) with the mantra. > Which is even a greater controversy since MMY got the idea that it > causes poverty but look at all the Indian millionaires who practice > traditional mantras with Om in them. You conviniently skip the shakti and blessing from the teacher and his traditiohn behind any matra. And you may well choose to ignore a teachers instruction/advice if you want, thats your choice. Personally I have not met 1 (and I have met many) millionar or billionar for that matter in India that have practiced meditation with Om. Chanting it here and there in Temples (which they often visit) or at their pujatables in their homes yes indeed. But quiet meditation using OM - never.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Posting Limits
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I hope whoever said that the evil has been defeated at some cosmic level is right, but I sure don't see the effects of it in real time on planet earth as long as there are prisoners suffering at American hands in Abu Ghraib. I see the same indifference to those things here in America as there was in Nazi Germany. Lurk: One of my favorite books, and one that I think about on a weekly basis is "Initiation", by Elizibeth Haich. Beside the fact that the events in the book take place in wartime Germany, with reflections back to ancient Egypt, she does make some predictions about the future. One is that the frontier which has yet to be fully studied is planet Earth, and specifically, the interior and oceans. Second, the present century and for the next so many hundreds of years will be a time of dictators, and totalitarian regimes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Andrew Cohen Quote of the Week - Serious Spiritual Practice
I have become a real fan of both Andrew and his buddy, Ken Wilber. They put out a magazine called "What is Enlightenment?". It has some terrific interviews and articles about all the questions that come up in this list. Andrew runs a teaching center in Lennox. And its interesting following some of their newsgroup chatter. Familiar old accusations and nay-sayers. Comes with the territory. Check it out WIE.org. The magazine is a bit pricey, but I think its worth it. s.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Posting Limits
Thank you Lurk. Now, there was someone who said that my comparison was stupid. I'm not sure he deserves an explanation, but he shall have one whether or not he likes it. I told Bronte privately that I didn't mind if a guru blasted me clean, but I do mind if he then pumps me full of his shit. That, in a nutshell explains what happened in Germany. Meditation is certainly a good thing, it does blast you clean, and it is neutral. But a meditator is more vulnerable than an ordinary mortal to believing all kinds of stuff that his guru tells him. Absolute devotion to a guru makes me nervous because of Nazi Germany. I notice from the story of one woman about the guru type that just died that he absolutely abused his power and status. "If you get pregnant, I don't want to know about it, just go get an abortion." Heinous! And, by the way, whoever called that a rumor should learn the difference between a rumor and a first person account. While I believe that meditation is (or can be) a good thing, I have some question about the effects of many people meditating together. I understand the theory of why the 1% should work, but that's just a theory. I have not really seen peace on earth as a result of our numbers. But here is what I have seen. Germany was in a state of mass hypnosis during Hitler's reign, and, traveling to China and then coming back here has made me see that America is in a state of mass hypnosis now. I don't know why that is, but could large numbers of people meditating have that effect? Meditation is a good thing, and it is neutral. But it apparently can be used to vastly different effects when we are talking about societies, rather than individuals. Talking to my physics teacher, Dr. Droste, I heard all the things I'm hearing here in Ff. about meditation and about enlightenment, and the stories in both cases range from the ridiculous to the sublime. It is not a stupid comparison, the comparison between America now and Hitler's Germany then. We are torturing people. And that may only be the beginning (those of you who think American concentration camps are too bizarre for belief should just Google them--they were too bizarre for belief in Germany too. But the American and Canadian residential schools for Native Americans were essentially death camps for children and served as a model for Hitler's camps). I hope whoever said that the evil has been defeated at some cosmic level is right, but I sure don't see the effects of it in real time on planet earth as long as there are prisoners suffering at American hands in Abu Ghraib. I see the same indifference to those things here in America as there was in Nazi Germany. That is the comparison I am making, and it is not stupid. a off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please remind me of what the limit is. Thanks, >> 35 post limit per week. You go girl ! OffWorld > > Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > P.S., Angela, you're up to 27 posts. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Al Gore's Nine Inconvenient Errors
Gore Derangement Syndrome: http://tinyurl.com/297p42 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The whole House of Cards that is "An Inconvenient Truth" falls apart > if just 2 or 3 of the following are errors. > > But there are 9 of 'em, according to a British judge. > > What is it they say about a house divided unto itself? > > > > From Times OnlineOctober 10, 2007 > > Al Gore told there are nine inconvienient truths in his film > Not everything Al Gore says in his documentary is a proven fact > > Nico Hines > A High Court judge today ruled that An Inconvenient Truth can be > distributed to every school in the country but only if it comes with > a note explaining nine scientific errors in Al Gore's Oscar-winning > film. > > The Government had pledged to send thousands of copies of the film to > schools across the country, but a Kent father challenged that policy > saying it would "brainwash" children. > > A judge was asked to adjudicate between Stewart Dimmock and the > Department of Children, Schools and Families. Mr Justice Burton ruled > that the film could be sent to schools, but only if it was > accompanied by new guidlines to balance the former US vice- > president's "one-sided" views > > The judge said some of the errors were made in "the context of > alarmism and exaggeration" in order to support Mr Gore's thesis on > global warming. > > Related Links > U-turn on showing of Al Gore film in school > Al Gore tipped to win Nobel > An inconvenient truth? > He said that while the film was dramatic and highly professional, it > formed part the ex-politician's global crusade on climate change and > not all the claims were supported by the current mainstream > scientific consensus. > > He went on to list those errors: > > Error one > > Al Gore: A sea-level rise of up to 20 feet would be caused by melting > of either West Antarctica or Greenland "in the near future". > > The judge's finding: "This is distinctly alarmist and part of Mr > Gore's "wake-up call". It was common ground that if Greenland melted > it would release this amount of water - "but only after, and over, > millennia." > > Error two > > Gore: Low-lying inhabited Pacific atolls are already "being inundated > because of anthropogenic global warming." > > Judge: There was no evidence of any evacuation having yet happened. > > Error three > > Gore: The documentary described global warming potentially "shutting > down the Ocean Conveyor" - the process by which the Gulf Stream is > carried over the North Atlantic to western Europe. > > Judge: According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > (IPCC), it was "very unlikely" it would be shut down, though it might > slow down. > > Error four > > Gore: He asserted - by ridiculing the opposite view - that two > graphs, one plotting a rise in C02 and the other the rise in > temperature over a period of 650,000 years, showed "an exact fit". > > Judge: Although there was general scientific agreement that there was > a connection, "the two graphs do not establish what Mr Gore asserts". > > Error five > > Gore: The disappearance of snow on Mt Kilimanjaro was expressly > attributable to global warming. > > Judge: This "specifically impressed" David Miliband, the Environment > Secretary, but the scientific consensus was that it cannot be > established that the recession of snows on Mt Kilimanjaro is mainly > attributable to human-induced climate change. > > Error six > > Gore: The drying up of Lake Chad was used in the film as a prime > example of a catastrophic result of global warming, said the judge. > > Judge: "It is generally accepted that the evidence remains > insufficient to establish such an attribution. It is apparently > considered to be far more likely to result from other factors, such > as population increase and over-grazing, and regional climate > variability." > > Error seven > > Gore: Hurricane Katrina and the consequent devastation in New Orleans > to global warming. > > Judge: There is "insufficient evidence to show that". > > Error eight > > Gore: Referred to a new scientific study showing that, for the first > time, polar bears were being found that had actually > drowned "swimming long distances - up to 60 miles - to find the ice". > > Judge: "The only scientific study that either side before me can find > is one which indicates that four polar bears have recently been found > drowned because of a storm." That was not to say there might not in > future be drowning-related deaths of bears if the trend of regression > of pack ice continued - "but it plainly does not support Mr Gore's > description". > > Error nine > > Gore: Coral reefs all over the world were bleaching because of global > warming and other factors. > > Judge: The IPCC had reported that, if temperat
[FairfieldLife] Al Gore's Nine Inconvenient Lies...in pictures
http://tinyurl.com/2wv3b2
[FairfieldLife] Al Gore's Nine Inconvenient Errors
The whole House of Cards that is "An Inconvenient Truth" falls apart if just 2 or 3 of the following are errors. But there are 9 of 'em, according to a British judge. What is it they say about a house divided unto itself? >From Times OnlineOctober 10, 2007 Al Gore told there are nine inconvienient truths in his film Not everything Al Gore says in his documentary is a proven fact Nico Hines A High Court judge today ruled that An Inconvenient Truth can be distributed to every school in the country but only if it comes with a note explaining nine scientific errors in Al Gore's Oscar-winning film. The Government had pledged to send thousands of copies of the film to schools across the country, but a Kent father challenged that policy saying it would "brainwash" children. A judge was asked to adjudicate between Stewart Dimmock and the Department of Children, Schools and Families. Mr Justice Burton ruled that the film could be sent to schools, but only if it was accompanied by new guidlines to balance the former US vice- president's "one-sided" views The judge said some of the errors were made in "the context of alarmism and exaggeration" in order to support Mr Gore's thesis on global warming. Related Links U-turn on showing of Al Gore film in school Al Gore tipped to win Nobel An inconvenient truth? He said that while the film was dramatic and highly professional, it formed part the ex-politician's global crusade on climate change and not all the claims were supported by the current mainstream scientific consensus. He went on to list those errors: Error one Al Gore: A sea-level rise of up to 20 feet would be caused by melting of either West Antarctica or Greenland "in the near future". The judge's finding: "This is distinctly alarmist and part of Mr Gore's "wake-up call". It was common ground that if Greenland melted it would release this amount of water - "but only after, and over, millennia." Error two Gore: Low-lying inhabited Pacific atolls are already "being inundated because of anthropogenic global warming." Judge: There was no evidence of any evacuation having yet happened. Error three Gore: The documentary described global warming potentially "shutting down the Ocean Conveyor" - the process by which the Gulf Stream is carried over the North Atlantic to western Europe. Judge: According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), it was "very unlikely" it would be shut down, though it might slow down. Error four Gore: He asserted - by ridiculing the opposite view - that two graphs, one plotting a rise in C02 and the other the rise in temperature over a period of 650,000 years, showed "an exact fit". Judge: Although there was general scientific agreement that there was a connection, "the two graphs do not establish what Mr Gore asserts". Error five Gore: The disappearance of snow on Mt Kilimanjaro was expressly attributable to global warming. Judge: This "specifically impressed" David Miliband, the Environment Secretary, but the scientific consensus was that it cannot be established that the recession of snows on Mt Kilimanjaro is mainly attributable to human-induced climate change. Error six Gore: The drying up of Lake Chad was used in the film as a prime example of a catastrophic result of global warming, said the judge. Judge: "It is generally accepted that the evidence remains insufficient to establish such an attribution. It is apparently considered to be far more likely to result from other factors, such as population increase and over-grazing, and regional climate variability." Error seven Gore: Hurricane Katrina and the consequent devastation in New Orleans to global warming. Judge: There is "insufficient evidence to show that". Error eight Gore: Referred to a new scientific study showing that, for the first time, polar bears were being found that had actually drowned "swimming long distances - up to 60 miles - to find the ice". Judge: "The only scientific study that either side before me can find is one which indicates that four polar bears have recently been found drowned because of a storm." That was not to say there might not in future be drowning-related deaths of bears if the trend of regression of pack ice continued - "but it plainly does not support Mr Gore's description". Error nine Gore: Coral reefs all over the world were bleaching because of global warming and other factors. Judge: The IPCC had reported that, if temperatures were to rise by 1- 3 degrees centigrade, there would be increased coral bleaching and mortality, unless the coral could adapt. But separating the impacts of stresses due to climate change from other stresses, such as over- fishing, and pollution was difficult.
[FairfieldLife] An enlightened One's journey
OM Namo Narayan, Attempted to write something this morning about this one's background, but fell Silent. Only thing that came to 'mind' was: "insignificantly significant". Once there was a "me" that beleived in True Peace, now there remains no *one* that Lives AS True Peace. This, sweet friends, is the Gift of SatGuru. *The Official Search began as a spontaneous kundalini awakening a little over a year ago. *Not versed (and without a hint of Belief) in anything spiritual or religious, the kundalini brought tremendous fear and confusion. *Pretty quickly Grace provided Guru and after an early blowout (this one didn't "like" the Truth initially.), Practices and Guru's Gift brought Grounding and Rapid Progress. *Practices, Humility and Surrender... day and night, night and day Revealed the Living Truth of Guru... of ONE. Guru's Grace is Essential. She pleaded, "Please show Yourself to me!" And so I moved to make my Presence Known. She ran in fear and ignorance, "That is not You! Where are You?" And so I came as Guru. "I am Here as Guru without and also as Guru within." And she cried, "You may be out here as Guru, but within there is only me." So I comforted her with Living Guidance and Practices. With Pure Love and Compassion, I Lead the Way. In Faith of My Living Form she remained Steady. In the Light of My Presence within she swam in Surrender. As she slowly dissolved into the Waters of My Being, My Presence Shined Brighter and Brighter. Then with a Final Brilliant Flash, she sank into the Depths of My Nothingness. Always Here Now I AM. Being AS Myself IN Myself and WITH Myself. The Only ONE. Not even as "I", But AS IS. The Being, The Living, The Shining Presence of ALL That IS. Come BE what you ARE. SatGuru (I AM) is Here without to Show you I AM Here within. Bliss is your Being, Peace is your Pleasure, Eternal Life is your Nature. Pranams Guru. Shanti Shanti OMMM. Sat Chit Ananda, Sarojini
[FairfieldLife] Ode to Intentional Character Building
I was thinking about this incredible poem by Rudyard Kipling today, which I memorized in high school. It was written by a man who believed wholly in free will and our power as individuals to create a better destiny, even a better character, for ourselves. A pretty unpopular concept these days when zombiefication is excused on the grounds of predetermination. Zombie aspirants, read this and weep. This is the kind of muster you sell out on: The poem is called "If." If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you; If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master; If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two imposters just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools; If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much; If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -- Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And -- which is more -- you'll be a man, my son. - by Rudyard Kipling - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
[FairfieldLife] A coup for junk science -- National Post
A coup for junk science Gore's 'truth' nets Nobel Prize Terence Corcoran, National Post Published: Saturday, October 13, 2007 Global warming theory has been in political and scientific trouble for some time, but who knew it had sunk so low it needed a boost from the Nobel Peace Prize committee? Rescuing and rewarding the obscure and the absurd has been a Nobel sideline for some years. The award has gone to half a dozen fringe movements and futile causes (the Gameen bank, Mother Teresa, nuclear disarmament, land mine activists, peace negotiators), ineffectual United Nations agencies and personalities (including KofiAnnan and the UN itself ), occasional warmongers (Yasser Arafat), plus an international assortment of minor and woolly-headed players on the world stage (Wangari Masthai, Jimmy Carter). Onto this heap of forgotten causes and marginalia the Nobel has just tossed Al Gore and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UN's official climate science group. What a blow the award must be to the IPCC, self-proclaimed home of scientific rigour, to now be lumped in with Reverend Al and his Travelling Snake Oil Road Show and Climate Terror Machine. If history is any guide here, the IPCC is now doomed to slide into obscurity, joining the list of similarly feted UN agencies that beaver away in relative obscurity and ineffectiveness, their Nobels rotting on shelves: The International Atomic Energy Agency (2005), United Nations peacekeeping forces (1988), the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (1981), the International Labour Organization (1969) and the UN Children's Fund (1965). The first task of the IPCC now, one would think, is to craft a statement disavowing any link with Gore, whose film and book, both titled An Inconvenient Truth, deserved a Nobel for science fiction rather than peace. Not that the IPCC is squeaky clean on the science of climate accuracy. Even the Nobel committee's statement on the IPCC captured the agency's primary role as political shaper of opinion and builder of consensus. IPCC scientific reports have "created an ever- broader informed consensus" about man-made global warming. The Nobel committee said it wanted to "contribute to a sharper focus" on climate change around the world. Due to the timing of the award, that sharper focus may end up highlighting the gross scientific inaccuracies in Gore's work, thereby making millions of people wonder about the validity of climate science -- and the Nobel -- rather than rush to join its crusading proponents. Just hours before the Nobel announcement, Gore was busy spinning his way out of a devastating United Kingdom court case that found nine substantial science errors in the film version of An Inconvenient Truth. The nine errors, listed on Page A19 of this newspaper, are truly major. But Gore's office, in true political form, tried to turn the science disaster into victory, claiming he was "gratified" that the U.K. court had not totally banned distribution of his film in British schools. Instead, it would have to circulate like a package of cigarettes, with a warning label: Children watch this movie at peril of being politically manipulated by Al Gore into thinking what they are watching is true. This is fine with Gore, apparently, because the mistakes were only a "handful" amid "thousands of other facts in the film." First of all, there are not thousands of facts in the film, except in the metaphysical sense. It is a fact that the world is presented as a globe floating in space, and a fact that Al Gore's wife looks pretty good in a sweater in the book version. But these are not the facts in dispute. The nine errors are core buttresses that support the whole hysterical narrative in the film and the book. I don't have the film here to review, but the book is at hand, and it would have to be ripped to pieces to remove the science mistakes found by the court, whole sections removed and key narratives and innuendos thrown out as invalid. There would be nothing left. The first theme of An Inconvenient Truth is that climate change is already devastating and that "very dramatic changes are taking place." On that page in the book, and the next three, are pictures purporting to show that the snows of Mount Kilimanjaro are disappearing. Not true, said the court. Twenty pages later, a foldout graphic claimed to show 650,000 years of proof that carbon levels in the atmosphere cause temperatures to rise. Not true, said the court. The chart actually shows temperatures increased first, then carbon levels rose. In the film, this sequence alone consumes maybe five minutes, a clever turning point in which Gore mounts a ladder to demonstrate soaring carbon levels and make other false claims. Pages of photos are built around Katrina and other hurricanes, which the court said cannot scientifically be pinned on global warming. And so it goes through the book, each of the nine e
[FairfieldLife] Re: Posting Limits
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please remind me of what the limit is. Thanks, >> 35 post limit per week. You go girl ! OffWorld > > Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > P.S., Angela, you're up to 27 posts. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
RE: [FairfieldLife] Posting Limits
Please remind me of what the limit is. Thanks, a Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: P.S., Angela, youre up to 27 posts. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Again, you are missing my point. As I said, I have drawn some comparisons. I have drawn no conclusions, and I have called no one either good or evil. >> Angela, welcome to the board. You comparison is very dumb however. Every child and halfwit has, in the past, made this comparison in their head as a musing, and quickly realised it does not have legs. You think it is an interesting comparison. I am afraid it is not. It is weak, ill-thought-out, poorly concieved, and ultimately redundant, therefore it is a tedious waste of space, and that is what people are objecting to. OffWorld > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks for confirming my point. I ask you a blunt question that draws > out the implications of what you are saying, and you are at a loss as > to how to respond. Precisely. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as > to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I > chose it and love it here. a > > > > feste37 wrote: How many > Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement > > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas > > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and > > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often > > repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was > > repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it > > enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It > > meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, > > and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as > > pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had > > to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. > > Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in > > karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed > > in detachment and they believed > > > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta > > run. a > > > > > > Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to > > establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact > > terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in > > establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the > > way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the > > thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real > > in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are > > not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention > > on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the > > notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive > > evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of > > the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death > > camps. a > > > > > > > > > > > > Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and > > Mahesh "yogis" spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas > > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? > > > > > > > > > Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be > > by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing > > the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
I was referring to other people's post. I don't know that he had any real interest. If he did, then that is certainly of interest and may relate to my line of inquiry, and then again, it may not. Whence the hostile tone? a feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My point is very obvious. It is you who should read the posts. If you didn't even know that MMY ever said anything about Hitler, why then do you write "MMY's interest in Hitler," as if it were an accepted fact, and far more weighty than a few scattered comments? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Read the posts. I made zero comments about what MMY said. All that came from others, which I noted with interest. I had no idea he ever said anything at all about Hitler. So what, exactly, have I distorted? a > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting how you take a few comments scattered over the years that > MMY may or may not have said about Hitler and turn it into "MMY's > interest in Hitler," which implies something quite different. And you > make this blatant distortion in the interest of . . . what, precisely? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > MMY's interest in Hitler may be to the point and it may not. My > interest in Hitler certainly doesn't make me a Nazi. Someone has > suggested that my interest in these things is not good for me. I'd > like to know why not? Is a historian's field of interest not good for > him? Is a researcher's interest in his field not good for him? Even > were we to make a value judgment and say cancer is a bad thing, is a > cancer researcher's interest bad for him? a > > > > jim_flanegin wrote: --- > In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:44 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 4:55 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also may not be aware, Mahesh was a real Hitler fan > > > > according to > > > > > > > some movement insiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > I challenge you to verify these claims. You are a f. > > lier ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post what I can find. Here's the first one: > > > > > > > > > > Maharishi said, on a radio show in Scandinavia, that Hitler was > > > > highly > > > > > evolved. > > > > > > > > > > Msg. #51983 > > > > > > > > > Of course he was-- how else could he have ammassed all of his > > power; > > > > conquering many countries, implementing his unspeakable > > atrocities, > > > > if it wasn't a manifestation of his own personal power? Those > > > > mechanics don't change whether a person is good or evil. > > > > > > > > > I don't think that's the question. The question is 'why was Mahesh > > so > > > darn fascinated by the guy'? > > > > Is he? Has he published endless volumes, and spoken at length about > > Hitler, for years? Sure doesn't seem that way from what little you > > have shared--it looks like a pretty minor interest on Maharishi's > > part. > > > > Could it be he is an Asuriac guru just > > > lookin' for some tips? > > > > > It is clear you'd like the answer to this to be "yes", so why ask me? > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
35, Jim. Sayonara.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 9:54 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Hi Vaj, what you are doing is cherry picking your 'evidence', to support your opinion. Do you know for certain that all of the Masters and teachers of what you call "numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion", are free of the same behaviors that you accuse Maharishi of? Integrity of a teacher is important to me, that's all. Or do you look less critically at them, becuse they support your kind of enlightenment tradition? I test them all like gold.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:24 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC > > > documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it > > would > > > become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the > > arising > > > of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in > > > meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's > > ideas, > > > if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society > > > adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be > > > following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths > > of > > > millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place > > > already, and if left to his own devices we would see western > > cities > > > being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city- > > > plan which segregates people by castes. > > > > > > That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is > > > factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give > > me > > > a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago > > > proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones > > > sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific > > sense > > > of that word. > > > > > So...you are willing to entertain the most facile speculation and > > rumors regarding Maharishi, but dammit let's put these rumors to > > rest regarding the Dalai Lama, right now! > > > > Sorry Vaj, you don't come off as credible in the least-- Just > > someone peddling their own "special" brand of enlightenment. > > Dogmatic. > > > Hi Jim, if you have evidence that the Dalai Lama's monks wore Nazi > symbols on their ties, has plans to tear down western cities and > rebuild them, molests his females students, etc. etc., I'd love to > hear it Jim. Since I made no reference to any "special brand of > enlightenment" your points seem rather moot. As I've pointed out on > many occasions, there are numerous enlightenment traditions, all > quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion. > Hi Vaj, what you are doing is cherry picking your 'evidence', to support your opinion. Do you know for certain that all of the Masters and teachers of what you call "numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion", are free of the same behaviors that you accuse Maharishi of? Or do you look less critically at them, becuse they support your kind of enlightenment tradition?
[FairfieldLife] Re: more meditating school info with my apology to chris
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > On Behalf Of mainstream20016 > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 11:59 AM > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: more meditating school info with > my > > > apology to > > > > chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the reassurance that SatYug is nigh at hand, through > the > > > > inevitability and > > > > necessity of India's role to bring all good to all of us - > Great ! > > > Wonderful > > > > ! I look forward to > > > > cathcing the rays of a global bath of beneficent light. Yet, as > a > > > > practicality, it would be a > > > > good thing, and wise, to have a direct hand in raising one's > > > consciousness. > > > > So I advocate > > > > for wide-spread individual TM practice in the West, yet that > cannot > > > happen > > > > if TMO remains > > > > an overtly religious organization. TM has, and can again, be > taught > > > honestly > > > > and > > > > effectively as a secular technique. As the last thirty-two > years > > > has shown, > > > > unless TM is > > > > taught as a secular technique, it's impact will be nill, > > > notwithstanding the > > > > coming glories > > > > of SatYug. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me Pandora's box has been opened. Even if the TMO were > to > > > try to > > > > scale back and present TM as a secular technique, critics would > be > > > able to > > > > present all sorts of evidence that for decades, it has been > > > associated with > > > > Hindu and various wacky things. The TMO would be accused of > trying > > > to hide > > > > all that for marketing purposes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > You are, naturally, missing the point of what's happening > completely. > > > It does not matter how people in the West perceive TM -- it's > enough > > > that a few people, aided by the presence of pundits, are doing TM > in > > > the West -- it's only necessary that a few candles have been lit > > > throughout the world, and that has been accomplished. India alone > can > > > be responsible for the transition to a Vedic culture, Sat Yuga, > and > > > in India semantics about TM as religion are meaningless. > > > > > > > Bob, the ideas that: all is well...that everything is now being > taken care of to bring Sat > > Yug made possible from India raise doubt in me, even > though I fully support and > > encourage whoever is involved in raising consciousness. Westerners > who financially > > support the TMO have likely been given similar reassurances while > making donations, and > > the donors have come to expect full-well the large degree to which > resources in the > > movement are funnelled out of the West. > > I suspect your perspective has few adherents. > > > Why not encourage the widespread direct > > experience of TM ? > > > > > > * > > Because the West is too encased in ignorance -- as is obvious on this > list from the many people who have dumped TM, there is a limit to how > much light people living in dense ignorance can tolerate, and so it's > just not possible to enable a more enlightened world on the basis of > a lot of people outside India learning TM. > > Even in India, of course, life is lived in dense ignorance, but India > is the home of the Ved, the natural place for a revival of Vedic > civilization, and the people will respond favorably when the pundits > open up a little more light there. > So, the West is relegated to catching a few rays of light - and told it is ignorant and unable to tolerate higher states of consciousness directly, and therefore impossible for the West to contribute to a more enlighened world by widely learning TM. Go ahead, tell us what you really think about the West. geez. In contrast, I think the West, particularly the U.S., is in great need of TM, and will adopt TM broadly when it as a firmly presented as a secular technique, ala TM instruction prior to 1976, when the overtly religious TM-Sidhi program instruction began. No, the West won't adopt overtly religious programs, but that doesn't make the West ignorant - it makes it prudent, wise, and relevant. It's time, again, for a full-scale, secular based organization to teach TM as a secular technique, to provide individuals a direct experience of higher consciousness, rather than promising hints of higher consciousness rays generated from the other side of the world.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
I have an abiding interest in the one called Hitler. He was a great man in this earth walking. --- feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My point is very obvious. It is you who should read > the posts. If you > didn't even know that MMY ever said anything about > Hitler, why then do > you write "MMY's interest in Hitler," as if it were > an accepted fact, > and far more weighty than a few scattered comments? > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela > Mailander > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Read the posts. I made zero comments about what > MMY said. All that > came from others, which I noted with interest. I had > no idea he ever > said anything at all about Hitler. So what, exactly, > have I distorted? a > > > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Interesting how you take a few comments scattered > over the years that > > MMY may or may not have said about Hitler and > turn it into "MMY's > > interest in Hitler," which implies something > quite different. And you > > make this blatant distortion in the interest of . > . . what, precisely? > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela > Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > MMY's interest in Hitler may be to the point > and it may not. My > > interest in Hitler certainly doesn't make me a > Nazi. Someone has > > suggested that my interest in these things is not > good for me. I'd > > like to know why not? Is a historian's field of > interest not good for > > him? Is a researcher's interest in his field not > good for him? Even > > were we to make a value judgment and say cancer > is a bad thing, is a > > cancer researcher's interest bad for him? a > > > > > > jim_flanegin wrote: > --- > > In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:44 PM, jim_flanegin > wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 4:55 PM, > nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > Vaj > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also may not be aware, Mahesh > was a real Hitler fan > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > some movement insiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I challenge you to verify these > claims. You are a f. > > > lier ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post what I can find. Here's the > first one: > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharishi said, on a radio show in > Scandinavia, that > Hitler was > > > > > highly > > > > > > evolved. > > > > > > > > > > > > Msg. #51983 > > > > > > > > > > > Of course he was-- how else could he have > ammassed all of his > > > power; > > > > > conquering many countries, implementing > his unspeakable > > > atrocities, > > > > > if it wasn't a manifestation of his own > personal power? Those > > > > > mechanics don't change whether a person is > good or evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that's the question. The > question is 'why was > Mahesh > > > so > > > > darn fascinated by the guy'? > > > > > > Is he? Has he published endless volumes, and > spoken at length about > > > Hitler, for years? Sure doesn't seem that way > from what little you > > > have shared--it looks like a pretty minor > interest on Maharishi's > > > part. > > > > > > Could it be he is an Asuriac guru just > > > > lookin' for some tips? > > > > > > > It is clear you'd like the answer to this to > be "yes", so why > ask me? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
[FairfieldLife] Lynch Promotes Meditation on Israel Trip
From: Press Center <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:22:32 +0200 This Associated Press story will go all over the world. Click on the link to see the article with a photo of Mr. Peres and David: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jp6nI84algwK31AIJOyXSZmT6XXQD8S9R6300 Lynch Promotes Meditation on Israel Trip By REGAN E. DOHERTY - 4 hours ago JERUSALEM (AP) - David Lynch, on a five-day visit to Israel to encourage transcendental meditation, met with Israeli President and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Shimon Peres. "Lynch is one of the greatest directors of our generation and a giant artist on his own, and it is a great honor for the state of Israel to host you and listen to you," Peres said Monday. "The whole of Israel recognizes your work and is proud to host you." The 61-year-old director, who has received Oscar nominations for "The Elephant Man," "Blue Velvet" and "Mullholland Dr.," is visiting Israel to encourage transcendental meditation as a new approach to eliminating violence in schools and creating a peaceful world. "Real peace is not just the absence of war, but the absence of all suffering, all negativity," Lynch said at the Sam Spiegel Film and Television School in Jerusalem. "Change comes from within. From the first meditation, boom, you're there." Lynch has been meditating for more than 30 years. He started the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace to promote transcendental meditation as a way to aid students in violence-ridden schools and bring about world harmony. With meditation, Lynch said, the "black cloud of negativity dissolves." Meditation can aid not only schoolchildren, but also bring tranquility to troubled regions of the world, he said. "The experienced gardener doesn't worry about the leaves. Get at (the problem) from its roots," he said. "A peace on the surface - it doesn't address the seeds of war ... it's a `peace' of paper." Lynch said if he had to choose between meditation and filmmaking, meditation would win. On the Net: David Lynch Foundation: http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/ -- End of Forwarded Message
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
---Hsuan Hua on fate: Most people are of the opinion that a person's fate has a fixed arrangement. This is illustrated by the saying, "When one's fate only allows for eight feet, it's difficult to seek for ten." Not bad! However, this is only spoken with reference to ordinary people. If one is a cultivator of the Way, then one doesn't fall into this sort of fate. Those who cultivate the Way shouldn't be consulting The Book of Changes. That's something which is used by the normal run of common person. Those who cultivate the Way are even able to put and end to birth and death, how much the more so are they able to deal with other forms of "fate." There even more able to leap over such things. So, don't pay any attention to those things. (p.119) * In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" > > wrote: > > > > > Curtis, this is addressed to you and I'm sure you will respond, > > but.may I ? > > > Trinity3, why would you doubt that he doesn't feel independent of > > unconscious processes, > > > and that he uses them (uncoscious processes) for his art ? It seems > > that Curtis is fully one > > > with the creative expressions from their inception, through their > > expression through his > > > art, in his case blues music performance. The concept of control of > > the process was > > > introduced by your question, and isn't what he asserts. He seems > > to be a fully > > > enlightened artist, at one with the first creative impulse, through > > its relative expression of > > > his own voice, guitar, and physical expression. Expanding the range > > of awareness of the > > > conscious mind to percieve the first impulses of creativity is what > > FFLers have been doing > > > naturally for a very long time. > > > -Mainstream > > > > Mainstream, maybe I am doing injustice to Curtis, I am certainly not > > doubting his creative process. Its simply my understanding of atheism > > as a philosophy of life. Religion, any religion certainly questions > > the independence of our mind /ego (while I am aware that Christianity > > makes it a special point that God gave man freedom of decision - not > > my belief) and makes it dependent on another entity, atheism asserts > > us that we alone are in control of our lives. At least thats what I > > have understood it to mean until now. Of course, everyone is aware of > > 'limitations' we all have,imposed to us by nature. But there is a > > fundamental belief that we are ourself in charge of what we believe > > in, that we with our mind can logically understand life and should > > reject irrationality. In fact religion is seen as 'irrational' by > > atheists, which implies that they believe in a rational understanding > > of life. IOW they regard ratio higher than feelings or experiences (as > > Curtis is never tired to point out that he regards the same mystical > > experiences many of us share in a different way and strips them of > > any religious meaning they could have.) In fact he tries to understand > > them rationally only, as I believe. Thus he places ratio highest, and > > I always understood this to mean a place where intellect is 'in control' > > > > t3rinity, you have a polar opposite view from atheism regarding the authorship of any > person's thoughts. While atheism denies the existence of God, you attribute all thoughts > to God - Even the thoughts of atheists' that deny God's existence!! > > Why do you believe that humans do not have free will ? Is the concept of free will too > removed from the belief that God authors all ? What if God authored free will ? How would > that concept fit for you ? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" > wrote: > > > Curtis, this is addressed to you and I'm sure you will respond, > but.may I ? > > Trinity3, why would you doubt that he doesn't feel independent of > unconscious processes, > > and that he uses them (uncoscious processes) for his art ? It seems > that Curtis is fully one > > with the creative expressions from their inception, through their > expression through his > > art, in his case blues music performance. The concept of control of > the process was > > introduced by your question, and isn't what he asserts. He seems > to be a fully > > enlightened artist, at one with the first creative impulse, through > its relative expression of > > his own voice, guitar, and physical expression. Expanding the range > of awareness of the > > conscious mind to percieve the first impulses of creativity is what > FFLers have been doing > > naturally for a very long time. > > -Mainstream > > Mainstream, maybe I am doing injustice to Curtis, I am certainly not > doubting his creative process. Its simply my understanding of atheism > as a philosophy of life. Religion, any religion certainly questions > the independence of our mind /ego (while I am aware that Christianity > makes it a special point that God gave man freedom of decision - not > my belief) and makes it dependent on another entity, atheism asserts > us that we alone are in control of our lives. At least thats what I > have understood it to mean until now. Of course, everyone is aware of > 'limitations' we all have,imposed to us by nature. But there is a > fundamental belief that we are ourself in charge of what we believe > in, that we with our mind can logically understand life and should > reject irrationality. In fact religion is seen as 'irrational' by > atheists, which implies that they believe in a rational understanding > of life. IOW they regard ratio higher than feelings or experiences (as > Curtis is never tired to point out that he regards the same mystical > experiences many of us share in a different way and strips them of > any religious meaning they could have.) In fact he tries to understand > them rationally only, as I believe. Thus he places ratio highest, and > I always understood this to mean a place where intellect is 'in control' > t3rinity, you have a polar opposite view from atheism regarding the authorship of any person's thoughts. While atheism denies the existence of God, you attribute all thoughts to God - Even the thoughts of atheists' that deny God's existence!! Why do you believe that humans do not have free will ? Is the concept of free will too removed from the belief that God authors all ? What if God authored free will ? How would that concept fit for you ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
My point is very obvious. It is you who should read the posts. If you didn't even know that MMY ever said anything about Hitler, why then do you write "MMY's interest in Hitler," as if it were an accepted fact, and far more weighty than a few scattered comments? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Read the posts. I made zero comments about what MMY said. All that came from others, which I noted with interest. I had no idea he ever said anything at all about Hitler. So what, exactly, have I distorted? a > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting how you take a few comments scattered over the years that > MMY may or may not have said about Hitler and turn it into "MMY's > interest in Hitler," which implies something quite different. And you > make this blatant distortion in the interest of . . . what, precisely? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > MMY's interest in Hitler may be to the point and it may not. My > interest in Hitler certainly doesn't make me a Nazi. Someone has > suggested that my interest in these things is not good for me. I'd > like to know why not? Is a historian's field of interest not good for > him? Is a researcher's interest in his field not good for him? Even > were we to make a value judgment and say cancer is a bad thing, is a > cancer researcher's interest bad for him? a > > > > jim_flanegin wrote: --- > In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:44 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 4:55 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also may not be aware, Mahesh was a real Hitler fan > > > > according to > > > > > > > some movement insiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > I challenge you to verify these claims. You are a f. > > lier ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post what I can find. Here's the first one: > > > > > > > > > > Maharishi said, on a radio show in Scandinavia, that Hitler was > > > > highly > > > > > evolved. > > > > > > > > > > Msg. #51983 > > > > > > > > > Of course he was-- how else could he have ammassed all of his > > power; > > > > conquering many countries, implementing his unspeakable > > atrocities, > > > > if it wasn't a manifestation of his own personal power? Those > > > > mechanics don't change whether a person is good or evil. > > > > > > > > > I don't think that's the question. The question is 'why was Mahesh > > so > > > darn fascinated by the guy'? > > > > Is he? Has he published endless volumes, and spoken at length about > > Hitler, for years? Sure doesn't seem that way from what little you > > have shared--it looks like a pretty minor interest on Maharishi's > > part. > > > > Could it be he is an Asuriac guru just > > > lookin' for some tips? > > > > > It is clear you'd like the answer to this to be "yes", so why ask me? > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
On Oct 15, 2007, at 4:30 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: http://youtube.com/watch?v=JWPTtJ-Z4lU The ordinary Village People speak out. Can't Stop the Silliness. :) Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] The good things TM gave us
Bronte Baxter wrote: > > Actually the "advanced" techniques are more like the traditional mantras > without omkara. But most TM'ers including teachers never step out > enough to learn mantra shastra to know that and MMY never taught mantra > shastra which is the science of mantras. Using bij aksharas as a > meditation mantra is very controversial among Indian sages and without > om even more controversial. > > Bronte: > Could you expand on that? This is a new area to me. What are bij aksharas > and why are they controversial? What are the two sides of the argument? > Bij aksharas or bija mantra are "seed" mantras (bij means seed). They are used to enliven longer mantras. They are seldom used to meditate on by themselves. The TM first techniques are all well known bij aksharas. Using a planetary mantra here is an example: Om ing kling brihaspataye namah. The bij aksharas ing and kling enliven the sanskrit name for Jupiter: Brihasphati. This makes the mantra more powerful than just "Om Brihaspataye Namah." Likewise adding the bij mantras brang, bring, brown to a mantra for Rahu makes it more powerful: Om bring brang brown seh rahuve namah. (Rahu is the north lunar node). Though there may be a few Indian sects that use bij mantras by themselves outside of TM I really don't know of any. Most gurus give traditional mantras for "yogic meditation" which is meditation for the masses. When they initiate someone into their tradition they give the initiate the "guru mantra" which is a special mantra that has been passed down through the tradition and gains power with each generation. Guru mantras can enliven other mantras. It has been claimed that Maharishi originally gave out the shanti mantra "Ram" (or Jai Ram) when he started TM. Some think that he switched to the bij mantras to make TM unique as many gurus would have given out that same shanti mantra. I also observe that unlike more traditional mantras that transcend slowly bij mantras tend to dip vertically (just like the bubble diagram) giving quick tastes of the transcendent. Remember that MMY also wanted people to get the advanced techniques as early as a year and a half which are more traditional and keep you in the transcendent longer. Many gurus think that using bij mantras by themselves can cause problems because they are so powerful. Also it is very non-traditional to not use Om (omkara) with the mantra. Which is even a greater controversy since MMY got the idea that it causes poverty but look at all the Indian millionaires who practice traditional mantras with Om in them.
[FairfieldLife] Comcast Caught Sensoring Political Emails
2007-10-15
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
*How Comcast Censors Political Content* Or *Why My Comcast Horror Story Is Better Than Yours* *By David Swanson* Most Comcast internet customers seem to have horror stories, but in my humble opinion this one is a doozie and may even suggest threats to freedom of speech more significant than the jailing of a court stenographer. I'm working on a campaign headquartered at www.afterdowningstreet.org that seeks to draw attention to the Downing Street Minutes and to lobby Congress to open an investigation into whether the President has committed impeachable offenses. According to a recent Zogby poll, 42 percent of Americans favor impeachment proceedings if the President lied about the reasons for war, and according to a recent ABC News / Washington Post poll, 52 percent think he did. But this story is nowhere to be found in the corporate media. So, our website attracts a lot of traffic. In addition, July 23rd is the three-year anniversary of the meeting on Downing Street that produced the now infamous minutes, and we are organizing events all over the country on that day. Or, we're trying to. But we noticed about a week ago that everyone working on this campaign was having strange Email problems. Some people would get Emails and some wouldn't, or they'd receive some but not others. Conference calls were worse than usual (I can't stand the things anyway) because half the people wouldn't get the info and know where to call in. Organizing by internet is super easy, but when you have to follow up every Email with a phone call to see if someone got it, it becomes super frustrating. Volunteers have been complaining all over the country – especially now that we've figured out what the problem was and they know what to complain about. We didn't know it, but for the past week, anyone using Comcast has been unable to receive any Email with "www.afterdowningstreet.org" in the body of the Email. That has included every Email from me, since that was in my signature at the bottom of every Email I sent. And it included any Email linking people to any information about the upcoming events. >From the flood this evening of Emails saying "Oh, so that's why I haven't heard anything from you guys lately," it seems clear that we would have significantly more events organized by now for the 23rd if not for this block by Comcast. Disturbingly, Comcast did not notify us of this block. It took us a number of days to nail down Comcast as the cause of the problems, and then more days, working with Comcast's abuse department to identify exactly what was going on. We'd reached that point by Thursday, but Comcast was slow to fix the problem. During the day on Friday we escalated our threats to flood Comcast's executives with phone calls and cancellations, and we gave them deadlines. Friday evening, Comcast passed the buck to Symantec. Comcast said that Symantec's Bright Mail filter was blocking the Emails, and that Symantec refused to lift the block, because they had supposedly received 46,000 complaints about Emails with our URL in them. Forty-six thousand! Of course, Symantec was working for Comcast, and Comcast could insist that they shape up, or drop them. But Comcast wasn't interested in doing that. Could we see two or three, or even one, of those 46,000 complaints? No, and Comcast claimed that Symantec wouldn't share them with Comcast either. By the time Comcast had passed the buck to the company that it was paying to filter its customers Emails, Brad Blog had posted an article about the situation and urged people to complain to Comcast. http://www.bradblog.com/archives/1602.htm Brad quickly added Symantec phone numbers to the story on his website, and we called Symantec's communications department, which fixed the problem in a matter of minutes. So, why does this matter? Comcast has a near monopoly on high-speed internet service in much of this country, including much of the Washington, D.C., area. Many members of the media and many people involved in politics rely on it. Three days ago, I almost decided to put a satellite dish on my roof. There's no other way for me to get high-speed internet, unless I use Comcast. Comcast effectively censors discussion of particular political topics, and impedes the ability of people to associate with each other, with absolutely no compulsion to explain itself. There is no due process. A phrase or web address is tried and convicted in absentia and without the knowledge of those involved. Now, did Comcast do this because it opposes impeaching the President? I seriously doubt it. Apparently the folks at Symantec did this, and Comcast condoned it. But why? Well, we have no evidence to suggest that these 46,000 complaints actually exist, but we can be fairly certain that if they do, they were generated by someone politically opposed to our agenda. There's simply no possible way that we've accidentally annoyed 46,000 random people with stray Emails and mistyped addresses. We've only
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Angela
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip That doesn't mean that all "conspiracy theories" are true, and, since it is in the interest of the ruling classes for the rest of us to remain in the dark, all kinds of outrageous conspiracy theories are planted to throw us off. Remember, too, that a theory is just a theory, but what happens to a theory when there are veritable mountain ranges of evidence? Thank you for sharing this. This is just so awesome, and I am going to re-read it and let percolate over the next few days and weeks. lurk > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Curtis, this is addressed to you and I'm sure you will respond, but.may I ? > Trinity3, why would you doubt that he doesn't feel independent of unconscious processes, > and that he uses them (uncoscious processes) for his art ? It seems that Curtis is fully one > with the creative expressions from their inception, through their expression through his > art, in his case blues music performance. The concept of control of the process was > introduced by your question, and isn't what he asserts. He seems to be a fully > enlightened artist, at one with the first creative impulse, through its relative expression of > his own voice, guitar, and physical expression. Expanding the range of awareness of the > conscious mind to percieve the first impulses of creativity is what FFLers have been doing > naturally for a very long time. > -Mainstream Mainstream, maybe I am doing injustice to Curtis, I am certainly not doubting his creative process. Its simply my understanding of atheism as a philosophy of life. Religion, any religion certainly questions the independence of our mind /ego (while I am aware that Christianity makes it a special point that God gave man freedom of decision - not my belief) and makes it dependent on another entity, atheism asserts us that we alone are in control of our lives. At least thats what I have understood it to mean until now. Of course, everyone is aware of 'limitations' we all have,imposed to us by nature. But there is a fundamental belief that we are ourself in charge of what we believe in, that we with our mind can logically understand life and should reject irrationality. In fact religion is seen as 'irrational' by atheists, which implies that they believe in a rational understanding of life. IOW they regard ratio higher than feelings or experiences (as Curtis is never tired to point out that he regards the same mystical experiences many of us share in a different way and strips them of any religious meaning they could have.) In fact he tries to understand them rationally only, as I believe. Thus he places ratio highest, and I always understood this to mean a place where intellect is 'in control'
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter > wrote: > snip > Because when my world view crashed, it left but one thing behind. It > left my Isness. I found that I'm immortal, that I'm always joined with > God. Nothing can ever sever me unless I give it permission. > > I remember in '81 when I left MIU and returned home and re-entered > the "real world". I had to come to grips with some of my desires, > which pertained to sex, diet, routine, meditation. I was breaking > away from the habits and thought patterns I had been abiding. > Concurrent with the thought, "Okay, I'm breaking the rules", > was, "This is who I am, If I'm going to get struck down, so be it, but > THIS IS WHO I AM, AND I ACCEPT IT". This was my awakening. Nothing > has been the same since. I have heard many others here express this > same sentiment. I'm not sure if this is what they call "waking > down". I kinda lost my interest in getting involved in any groups. > > lurk Brilliant! "Waking down"! > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > First of all: Thanks for your answer Curtis. My comments follow. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > You have the right to say anything you want. When you say "I am > God" > > > > I have the right to say "Uh oh". I have my reasons. > > > > > > Or not. Most reasons are rationalizations, as brain research suggests. > > > What you think to be 'my decision' or 'my reason' is very often, if > > > not always a later rationalization of processes in the brain which are > > > under the threshold of your awareness. And yet you feel sure (most of > > > us do) that its us doing it, us thinking and us being independent. > > > > A lack of compelling evidence has nothing to do with unconscious > > processes. I don't feel independent of unconscious processes. Quite > > the opposite, I use them for my art. > > When you say: 'I use them for my art' you obviously feel in charge > that you have some kind of control of what is conscious and what is > unconscious, its exactly that which I am doubting.This transition of > unconscious processes to conscious ones is something we are obviously > not aware of, so how could 'you' possibly control them? I know what > you mean, and I am sure that you have worked out a means to be > creative in that way, but I am obviously challenging he overall > picture. Which is that the I, ego is in control. > Curtis, this is addressed to you and I'm sure you will respond, but.may I ? Trinity3, why would you doubt that he doesn't feel independent of unconscious processes, and that he uses them (uncoscious processes) for his art ? It seems that Curtis is fully one with the creative expressions from their inception, through their expression through his art, in his case blues music performance. The concept of control of the process was introduced by your question, and isn't what he asserts. He seems to be a fully enlightened artist, at one with the first creative impulse, through its relative expression of his own voice, guitar, and physical expression. Expanding the range of awareness of the conscious mind to percieve the first impulses of creativity is what FFLers have been doing naturally for a very long time. -Mainstream > > Being confident about knowledge > > is not undermined by studies on our rationalization processes. There > > are many methods that we use to avoid this among many possible human > > cognitive errors. > > I am not talking about errors here, but about the general process of > brain-processes coming into awareness. These processes in your brain > are not under your control. But the result of these processes are then > , once they come into awareness, owned by an ego, the self, with which > we identify. From reading your posts until so far, I have got the > impression, that you have sort of a naive belief into the ego, your > sense of self, as a given. You take whatever appears to be as it is, > as the truth, as far as I understood you. > > > > E.g. in my view, which is just a POV, are are an atheist, precisely > > > because God wants you to be so. In my view we are not independent > > > units, but are guided by a cosmic force, that you might call 'God' The > > > sense of the I and doer-ship is one of the greatest miracles. Which > > > you take for granted obviously. > > > > > > I don't take our sense of I an doer-ship for granted, I love being > > alive. I just don't believe that any of the explanations for how we > > got here rise above mythology. (which has its valuable uses) I am > > satisfied with the miracle of life itself without the overlay concepts > > of cosmic forces. My awe, wonder, joy and even bliss come from being > > alive, not from one of the many, many God concepts. > > Even people who believe in God, know that whatever we think about him > /her or them is a concept. Ask the most fundamentalist Muslim, and he > will tell you that God cannot be described or understood by the mind. > So when you talk about God, you talk about something indescribable. As > such you have a metaphor for the indescribable, and that is God. I > would say most people are aware of this. If you say ' I do not know > God (as he is beyound the mind)' or if you say 'I do not know the > origin of the world' whats the difference really? If you say: ' I am > satisfied with the miracles of live' you obviously simply substitute > the word 'God' with 'life', as an overall concept of the processes > going on in the world. I don't see any big difference there. If you > speak of the 'miracle' you even more so use religious terminology. > > > If you find these concepts useful in interpreting your experiences of > > your consciousness, that is your business. > > Sure. I feel using co
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip Because when my world view crashed, it left but one thing behind. It left my Isness. I found that I'm immortal, that I'm always joined with God. Nothing can ever sever me unless I give it permission. I remember in '81 when I left MIU and returned home and re-entered the "real world". I had to come to grips with some of my desires, which pertained to sex, diet, routine, meditation. I was breaking away from the habits and thought patterns I had been abiding. Concurrent with the thought, "Okay, I'm breaking the rules", was, "This is who I am, If I'm going to get struck down, so be it, but THIS IS WHO I AM, AND I ACCEPT IT". This was my awakening. Nothing has been the same since. I have heard many others here express this same sentiment. I'm not sure if this is what they call "waking down". I kinda lost my interest in getting involved in any groups. lurk >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > First of all: Thanks for your answer Curtis. My comments follow. Likewise. I'm sure I'll learn something. >Snip> Me > > the opposite, I use them for my art. > T:> When you say: 'I use them for my art' you obviously feel in charge > that you have some kind of control of what is conscious and what is > unconscious, its exactly that which I am doubting.This transition of > unconscious processes to conscious ones is something we are obviously > not aware of, so how could 'you' possibly control them? I know what > you mean, and I am sure that you have worked out a means to be > creative in that way, but I am obviously challenging he overall > picture. Which is that the I, ego is in control. > I didn't say I control them, I said I use them. There are lots of ways people access their unconscious processes, meditation being one. I don't feel as if I am in control of them or conscious of them. But like the fungi that live under the soil occasionally a mushroom pops up on the surface. If you know something about what conditions to make them pop you can create more favorable conditions for it to happen more often. I think I am in agreement with your point that there is much that is never known. Certainly my ego isn't in control of all of my unconscious processes. > ME: > > Being confident about knowledge > > is not undermined by studies on our rationalization processes. There > > are many methods that we use to avoid this among many possible human > > cognitive errors. > T: > I am not talking about errors here, but about the general process of > brain-processes coming into awareness. These processes in your brain > are not under your control. But the result of these processes are then > , once they come into awareness, owned by an ego, the self, with which > we identify. From reading your posts until so far, I have got the > impression, that you have sort of a naive belief into the ego, your > sense of self, as a given. You take whatever appears to be as it is, > as the truth, as far as I understood you. I can be as naive as the next person, but I don't think I really follow your point here. I don't take anything as it appears as "the truth". My sense of self is a given I guess. I'm down with Decartes' first principle. I am not confused about who I am, but that does include plenty of mystery including unconscious processes. T: > Even people who believe in God, know that whatever we think about him > /her or them is a concept. Ask the most fundamentalist Muslim, and he > will tell you that God cannot be described or understood by the mind. > So when you talk about God, you talk about something indescribable. As > such you have a metaphor for the indescribable, and that is God. I > would say most people are aware of this. If you say ' I do not know > God (as he is beyound the mind)' or if you say 'I do not know the > origin of the world' whats the difference really? If you say: ' I am > satisfied with the miracles of live' you obviously simply substitute > the word 'God' with 'life', as an overall concept of the processes > going on in the world. I don't see any big difference there. If you > speak of the 'miracle' you even more so use religious terminology. ME: I often find that down deep under the spiritual terms, I share beliefs about life with overtly spiritual people. The term "God" isn't useful for me but I understand it is for others. But when I say life, I don't mean any of the God concepts I have come across. Maybe Pantheism, I should look into that. I would attend WICCA meetings but I am sure to get kicked out for leering. > > > If you find these concepts useful in interpreting your experiences of > > your consciousness, that is your business. > T: > Sure. I feel using concepts of something I experience with certainty > (God) as helpful of getting things 'out of the way'. I mean why bother > with questions I can have a metaphor for as a working hypothesis? I > don't have to think about things my intellect cannot grasp. (and I can > still use my intellect to probe deeper into 'higher realties' having > such expressions and metaphors I can work with. Its like the steps of > a ladder I can use) ME: OK > ME > > But not adapting these > > concepts doesn't make me take anything for granted. > T:> It seems you have taken many things for granted, for example that you > are in control of your actions. Or that he intellect is a valid means > to understand reality, which exceeds personal experience. Me: I hope I have cleared up that I do acknowledge unconscious processes beyond my conscious mind. If you are taking it to an extreme version of philosophical skepticism about the authorship of the actions I do control, you may be going beyond my POV. Even using "the intellect" in this way is coming from a whole epistemological POV that I don't share. I don't cut up my mental processes that way
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ordinary village people don't have a problem with conceptualizing > > persons as heroes or devatas.> > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=JWPTtJ-Z4lU > > The ordinary Village People speak out. I don't get it. This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Scorpio / Can't Stop Productions
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
First of all: Thanks for your answer Curtis. My comments follow. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > wrote: > > > > > You have the right to say anything you want. When you say "I am God" > > > I have the right to say "Uh oh". I have my reasons. > > > > Or not. Most reasons are rationalizations, as brain research suggests. > > What you think to be 'my decision' or 'my reason' is very often, if > > not always a later rationalization of processes in the brain which are > > under the threshold of your awareness. And yet you feel sure (most of > > us do) that its us doing it, us thinking and us being independent. > > A lack of compelling evidence has nothing to do with unconscious > processes. I don't feel independent of unconscious processes. Quite > the opposite, I use them for my art. When you say: 'I use them for my art' you obviously feel in charge that you have some kind of control of what is conscious and what is unconscious, its exactly that which I am doubting.This transition of unconscious processes to conscious ones is something we are obviously not aware of, so how could 'you' possibly control them? I know what you mean, and I am sure that you have worked out a means to be creative in that way, but I am obviously challenging he overall picture. Which is that the I, ego is in control. > Being confident about knowledge > is not undermined by studies on our rationalization processes. There > are many methods that we use to avoid this among many possible human > cognitive errors. I am not talking about errors here, but about the general process of brain-processes coming into awareness. These processes in your brain are not under your control. But the result of these processes are then , once they come into awareness, owned by an ego, the self, with which we identify. From reading your posts until so far, I have got the impression, that you have sort of a naive belief into the ego, your sense of self, as a given. You take whatever appears to be as it is, as the truth, as far as I understood you. > > E.g. in my view, which is just a POV, are are an atheist, precisely > > because God wants you to be so. In my view we are not independent > > units, but are guided by a cosmic force, that you might call 'God' The > > sense of the I and doer-ship is one of the greatest miracles. Which > > you take for granted obviously. > > > I don't take our sense of I an doer-ship for granted, I love being > alive. I just don't believe that any of the explanations for how we > got here rise above mythology. (which has its valuable uses) I am > satisfied with the miracle of life itself without the overlay concepts > of cosmic forces. My awe, wonder, joy and even bliss come from being > alive, not from one of the many, many God concepts. Even people who believe in God, know that whatever we think about him /her or them is a concept. Ask the most fundamentalist Muslim, and he will tell you that God cannot be described or understood by the mind. So when you talk about God, you talk about something indescribable. As such you have a metaphor for the indescribable, and that is God. I would say most people are aware of this. If you say ' I do not know God (as he is beyound the mind)' or if you say 'I do not know the origin of the world' whats the difference really? If you say: ' I am satisfied with the miracles of live' you obviously simply substitute the word 'God' with 'life', as an overall concept of the processes going on in the world. I don't see any big difference there. If you speak of the 'miracle' you even more so use religious terminology. > If you find these concepts useful in interpreting your experiences of > your consciousness, that is your business. Sure. I feel using concepts of something I experience with certainty (God) as helpful of getting things 'out of the way'. I mean why bother with questions I can have a metaphor for as a working hypothesis? I don't have to think about things my intellect cannot grasp. (and I can still use my intellect to probe deeper into 'higher realties' having such expressions and metaphors I can work with. Its like the steps of a ladder I can use) > But not adapting these > concepts doesn't make me take anything for granted. It seems you have taken many things for granted, for example that you are in control of your actions. Or that he intellect is a valid means to understand reality, which exceeds personal experience. > You yourself have > decided not to adapt literally hundreds of God concepts to arrive at > the one that works for you. I am actually not exactly sure in how many Gods/gods I believe ;-)But basically there is no big difference in believing in 108 Gods or only 107 Gods or actually just one God. It doesn't matter, as you believe there is a consciousness beyound your
Re: [FairfieldLife] Posting Limits
On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: P.S., Angela, you’re up to 27 posts. And Jim Flanegin is at 32. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hutterists? Yes I have
They R similar in theology to the Mennonites we more commonly know. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
> Ordinary village people don't have a problem with conceptualizing > persons as heroes or devatas.> http://youtube.com/watch?v=JWPTtJ-Z4lU The ordinary Village People speak out. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bhairitu wrote: > > Gods, BTW, are just personifications of the subtle fields > > that sages experienced in meditation. They were personified > > so that the ordinary person could conceptualize them. > > > You got it backwards, once again, Mr. Bharat2. The Vedic Devas > are the personifications of the forces of nature, like the > Wind, Fire, Earth, etc. Devas are supernal deities, not persons > or states of conciousness. > > The Devatas of later Hinduism are deified heroes, such as > Krishna, Rama, Ramchandra, Vasudeva and Devaki. They are deemed > transcendental persons, described in the later Vedic literature > as the subtle fields of conciousness. > > Ordinary village people don't have a problem with conceptualizing > persons as heroes or devatas. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
Bhairitu wrote: > Gods, BTW, are just personifications of the subtle fields > that sages experienced in meditation. They were personified > so that the ordinary person could conceptualize them. > You got it backwards, once again, Mr. Bharat2. The Vedic Devas are the personifications of the forces of nature, like the Wind, Fire, Earth, etc. Devas are supernal deities, not persons or states of conciousness. The Devatas of later Hinduism are deified heroes, such as Krishna, Rama, Ramchandra, Vasudeva and Devaki. They are deemed transcendental persons, described in the later Vedic literature as the subtle fields of conciousness. Ordinary village people don't have a problem with conceptualizing persons as heroes or devatas.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > You have the right to say anything you want. When you say "I am God" > > I have the right to say "Uh oh". I have my reasons. > > Or not. Most reasons are rationalizations, as brain research suggests. > What you think to be 'my decision' or 'my reason' is very often, if > not always a later rationalization of processes in the brain which are > under the threshold of your awareness. And yet you feel sure (most of > us do) that its us doing it, us thinking and us being independent. A lack of compelling evidence has nothing to do with unconscious processes. I don't feel independent of unconscious processes. Quite the opposite, I use them for my art. Being confident about knowledge is not undermined by studies on our rationalization processes. There are many methods that we use to avoid this among many possible human cognitive errors. > > E.g. in my view, which is just a POV, are are an atheist, precisely > because God wants you to be so. In my view we are not independent > units, but are guided by a cosmic force, that you might call 'God' The > sense of the I and doer-ship is one of the greatest miracles. Which > you take for granted obviously. I don't take our sense of I an doer-ship for granted, I love being alive. I just don't believe that any of the explanations for how we got here rise above mythology. (which has its valuable uses) I am satisfied with the miracle of life itself without the overlay concepts of cosmic forces. My awe, wonder, joy and even bliss come from being alive, not from one of the many, many God concepts. If you find these concepts useful in interpreting your experiences of your consciousness, that is your business. But not adapting these concepts doesn't make me take anything for granted. You yourself have decided not to adapt literally hundreds of God concepts to arrive at the one that works for you. I have rejected them too and probably for many of the same reasons. I just have one less God than you have. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:24 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC > documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would > become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising > of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in > meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, > if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society > adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be > following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of > millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place > already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities > being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city- > plan which segregates people by castes. > > That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is > factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me > a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago > proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones > sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense > of that word. > So...you are willing to entertain the most facile speculation and rumors regarding Maharishi, but dammit let's put these rumors to rest regarding the Dalai Lama, right now! Sorry Vaj, you don't come off as credible in the least-- Just someone peddling their own "special" brand of enlightenment. Dogmatic. Hi Jim, if you have evidence that the Dalai Lama's monks wore Nazi symbols on their ties, has plans to tear down western cities and rebuild them, molests his females students, etc. etc., I'd love to hear it Jim. Since I made no reference to any "special brand of enlightenment" your points seem rather moot. As I've pointed out on many occasions, there are numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > TM gave us something. But that was the thing that was always free to us anyway, had we only known where to look. It's something that still waits for us, never demanding we pay a toll. It's there for the experiencing, without gods or mantras, bajans or ego-suicide. It's just what we Are, and it just Is. > Another point of view is to see TM as a very efficient vehicle for transcending; a tool, like a hammer or a screwdriver. I've been doing it now starting on my fourth decade, and never thought of it as anything but. Perhaps I need a more active imagination ;-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:33 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: I could give you solid documentation for the fact that Trebitsch- Lincoln did in fact take a radio to the Dali Lama. Unfortunately for me, most of my sources are not in English. Where I went to grad school people did dismiss one another's ideas, but not without a better hearing than you've given me. a Was it even possible to have radio communication between a himalayan kingdom, presumably the Potala in Lhasa and Germany at that time? And of course I'm basing a lot of my conclusions on the accounts I've heard or read and what the Tibetan government is known to have said about the Germans. They stand in stark contrast to what it sounds like you're stating. Of course you're not on trial, so I'd love to hear what you've heard. It seems to me the friendliest relationship in eastern Europe was with the Tsars. A number of years ago I met a gentleman who oversaw what was used as a radio-jamming facility in the communist era but was originally a large Tibetan temple and library, containing many rare Tibetan artifacts from the Tsarist era.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hutterists?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister wrote: > > > > > > Has anybody heard of 'hutterists'(sp?)? > > I think they are some kind of Christian > > communists. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Hutter > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If you're referring to my comment it was about TTC not just people > learning TM. Becoming a teacher was a magnitude much deeper than just > being a meditator or even Sidha. What you're saying is that meditation > became a replacement for drugs albeit a "safe" one. That would have > worked with a lot of meditation courses but at the time in the 1970's TM > was probably one of the least cult like of the organizations (that > manifested later). I can just imagine what might have happened if I did > one of Muktananda's weekend sessions (and I had friends at the time that > did) and became involved with that organization which was more > "religious" in nature. My relatives would have had a fit but because of > the well publicized secular nature of the TMO they were supportive even > when I did TTC and then the Sidhis (which they loved to have me tell > people about my "flying" just to see the reaction). > The Secular presentation of TM was Key, bolstered by the Scientific American journal's publication of Keith Wallace's doctoral work on TM. TM's genious depends upon a secular orientation, underpinned by rationality and the Scientific method. When the secular orientation of TM was abandoned at the beginning of the Siddhi instruction, the TMO began the long, continuing slide toward irrelevance, and the TM technique likewise became obscure. It is my belief that TM will soon re-emerge as a secular technique, and as such will be practiced by persons of all cultures, religions, and classes. As a secular technique, it offers so much good. It's dormant status within the now overtly religious TMO is an injustice to humanity. It will be corrected - soon. > By the time I did TM I was already far from the musician's drug scene. > In fact the other two members of the jazz trio I played in also started > TM and one also became a teacher. > > What I am referring to is how Maharishi invented "yuppies." :) > > > Rick Archer wrote: > > I'd like to comment on someone's observation that Maharishi took the best > > and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult > > zombies. Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out > > hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned > > TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and > > was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became > > addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very > > muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my > > druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends > > with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell > > similar stories. This doesn't excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO > > that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where > > credit is due. It's not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 > > 9:22 AM > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hutterists?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Has anybody heard of 'hutterists'(sp?)? > I think they are some kind of Christian > communists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Hutter
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You have the right to say anything you want. When you say "I am God" > I have the right to say "Uh oh". I have my reasons. Or not. Most reasons are rationalizations, as brain research suggests. What you think to be 'my decision' or 'my reason' is very often, if not always a later rationalization of processes in the brain which are under the threshold of your awareness. And yet you feel sure (most of us do) that its us doing it, us thinking and us being independent. E.g. in my view, which is just a POV, are are an atheist, precisely because God wants you to be so. In my view we are not independent units, but are guided by a cosmic force, that you might call 'God' The sense of the I and doer-ship is one of the greatest miracles. Which you take for granted obviously.
Re: [FairfieldLife] The good things TM gave us
Actually the "advanced" techniques are more like the traditional mantras without omkara. But most TM'ers including teachers never step out enough to learn mantra shastra to know that and MMY never taught mantra shastra which is the science of mantras. Using bij aksharas as a meditation mantra is very controversial among Indian sages and without om even more controversial. Bronte: Could you expand on that? This is a new area to me. What are bij aksharas and why are they controversial? What are the two sides of the argument? Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Bronte Baxter wrote: > What I come up with is this. TM did deliver experience of the stillest states > of awareness, that most of us had been too outward-directed ever to have > noticed before. It pointed us toward home. That was fantastic. But just as a > bad product offer can include a really good freebie giveaway, TM attached a > pretty big pricetag to the good that it gave us. That pricetag wasn't noticed > until we'd been meditating a long time, until we'd bought the philosophy hook > line and sinker. Kind of like those credit card deals that start out with > zero interest then slowly build interest until you're amazed to find yourself > swimming in debt. > > The pricetag was, you pay a toll to the gods to ride the road to > transcendence. You get to pure consciousness using a toll road highway. At > first you're asked for only a tiny toll, no pinch at all. You're informed > this is the only way to the ocean -- taking the freeway is far too dangerous. > So the aspirant flies down the toll road, thrilled to be using it, paying 35 > cents at a tollbooth now and then. But as the years go by, the toll charge > rises -- he gets an advanced technique, he starts reading Vedas to the gods > every day, listening to chants -- his mantra gets "namah" added to it. > Bowing, bowing down. Delivering soma to the gods. > Actually the "advanced" techniques are more like the traditional mantras without omkara. But most TM'ers including teachers never step out enough to learn mantra shastra to know that and MMY never taught mantra shastra which is the science of mantras. Using bij aksharas as a meditation mantra is very controversial among Indian sages and without om even more controversial. > > > > TM gave us something. But that was the thing that was always free to us > anyway, had we only known where to look. It's something that still waits for > us, never demanding we pay a toll. It's there for the experiencing, without > gods or mantras, bajans or ego-suicide. It's just what we Are, and it just Is. A few years back I was initiated into a tantric tradition by a Indian tantric who resides locally. This tradition which is village tantra is not over scholasticized like we find in the TM movement. It had to be kept simple because village people often don't have the education to delve into things academically. But it is a very powerful tradition and Indians will tell you the most powerful tantrics are the ones who reside in the villages probably because their energies are not drained by the stress of the city. Which also means that in its simplicity it is more apropos for our modern western lifestyle. Having a personal guru (who also treats me as his buddy) is a lot different from having a remote out of touch "pop" guru. There is of course plenty of time to ask questions including very deep ones that even if you got to ask MMY he would have blown off. He also does not rule over my life but instead it is "here are some techniques to practice and when and how to practice them." We've had much discourse on mantra shastra too. It is actually very simple as is shaktipat which we use in teaching. And there is no cult. In fact I have met only a few of his other initiates. There are no group meetings as it is one-on-one instruction. What I've learned is meditation is good even if it just calms someone down for a couple of periods a day. It is amazing if it opens your eyes to reality. The Kali tradition which is dangerous unless under the instruction of a guru peels away illusion like the layers of an onion. Every week there is a new "aha!" experience. And my guru teaches that kind of experience is unending. BTW, before I learned TM I had tried some of Ramana Maharishi's techniques (and even before that when I first tried meditation I had kundalini rise). I learned TM because I intuitively felt that mantra meditation would deepen what I had already learned through self-inquiry. And it did and in fact they played off one another. Gods, BTW, are just personifications of the subtle fields that sages experienced in meditation. They were personified so that the ordinary person could conceptualize them. - Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
Read the posts. I made zero comments about what MMY said. All that came from others, which I noted with interest. I had no idea he ever said anything at all about Hitler. So what, exactly, have I distorted? a feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting how you take a few comments scattered over the years that MMY may or may not have said about Hitler and turn it into "MMY's interest in Hitler," which implies something quite different. And you make this blatant distortion in the interest of . . . what, precisely? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > MMY's interest in Hitler may be to the point and it may not. My interest in Hitler certainly doesn't make me a Nazi. Someone has suggested that my interest in these things is not good for me. I'd like to know why not? Is a historian's field of interest not good for him? Is a researcher's interest in his field not good for him? Even were we to make a value judgment and say cancer is a bad thing, is a cancer researcher's interest bad for him? a > > jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:44 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 4:55 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > You also may not be aware, Mahesh was a real Hitler fan > > > according to > > > > > > some movement insiders. > > > > > > > > > > I challenge you to verify these claims. You are a f. > lier ! > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post what I can find. Here's the first one: > > > > > > > > Maharishi said, on a radio show in Scandinavia, that Hitler was > > > highly > > > > evolved. > > > > > > > > Msg. #51983 > > > > > > > Of course he was-- how else could he have ammassed all of his > power; > > > conquering many countries, implementing his unspeakable > atrocities, > > > if it wasn't a manifestation of his own personal power? Those > > > mechanics don't change whether a person is good or evil. > > > > > > I don't think that's the question. The question is 'why was Mahesh > so > > darn fascinated by the guy'? > > Is he? Has he published endless volumes, and spoken at length about > Hitler, for years? Sure doesn't seem that way from what little you > have shared--it looks like a pretty minor interest on Maharishi's > part. > > Could it be he is an Asuriac guru just > > lookin' for some tips? > > > It is clear you'd like the answer to this to be "yes", so why ask me? > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Supernatural Programs Flood US Television
Could it be "predictive programming" or that such shows are even more "spell-binding" (pardon the pun) than the usual junk. From the New York Times: "A Person Could Develop Occult By ALESSANDRA STANLEY THERE must be a rational explanation for all the supernatural phenomena on television. There must. Because it is weird, and even a little freaky, that so many shows this season prey on the paranormal. Vampires have day jobs as detectives, store clerks reap souls for the Devil, reporters time-travel to get their stories straight, cheerleaders walk through fire and people of all kinds talk to dead people, sometimes quite chattily. Even reality television is getting swept up in the surreal: On Oct. 24 NBC will unveil “Phenomenon,” an “American Idol”-ish competition for illusionists and mentalists, with Uri Geller and Criss Angel as judges. On the CW show “Supernatural” strapping young ghostbusters hunt down evil spirits armed with a Colt revolver and holy water, displaying the kind of weary nonchalance that “CSI” investigators bring to a crime scene. “So, Bobby,” one of the heroes asked in the season premiere, “what do we have here, a biblical plague or what?” People used to believe in magic until science began proving them wrong. For a while crime shows made a religion of forensic science. It’s possible that television took forensics — all those bloodstain spatters, DNA swabs and acoustic reflectometry probes — as far as it could go. Now the only novelty left for the police procedural genre is a return to magic. Or worse: It could just be inhuman nature." more here... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/arts/television/14stan.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] To Angela
Angela, you are superb. The fact that you've caused such angry reactions and railing denial is evidence that you've pressed some serious "oh my god, what could this mean?" buttons. A lot of folks here are very defensive of the TMO, as they still are members. It's scary to get your most basic beliefs challenged, and some of the things you wrote brought up inner questions that were challenges indeed. I've been attacked also for some of my posts, and the greater attack the greater good I feel I probably did by what I wrote. We all NEED our assumptions challenged, Angela. Challenging them is what keeps us from getting old. When I was a young girl, I thought my generation was SO cool because it was so open-minded. All my peers (except some rare rednecks) were open to new ideas, opposite points of view. So different from our parents back then. Now I find the very people I looked up to in my youth, people in the movement, are as dried out and set in their ways as my father was at their age. Those bright, idealist sparkling eyes and minds have given way to dullness, repetitious thinking, platitudes, and entrenchment in mental positions. Exactly like the generation we once felt so superior to! Now I know it wasn't that we were a better generation, we were just young and flexible, fresh and willing to explore and to experience life. When I see a mind like yours, willing to go where no man has gone before, I feel heartened indeed. There are far too few of your kind in this world. You risk and bear the arrows and bullets by people terrified at the thought of substanstive growth or change. We used to call them fuddie-duddies, when we were kids and found these traits in our parents. To be more concerned about the disapproval of our parents' modern-day equivalant than we were over our parents', would be silly. The same rules apply. Chalk it up to narrow-mindedness. For a person as original as you, it's hard to find a place you're accepted in this world, because while you've stayed young most people around you haven't. You don't fit into a pegged slot the way most older folks do. You're a maverick. It's a lonely kind of mind to have, and a lonely life you sometimes have to lead. But there are other mavericks out there. You do have a family. Everyone who ever sought for the truth at whatever cost to their world view is in your family. Living and dead, they are kin. All the inventors, the original thinkers, the revolutionaries, the yeast in the dough of this world. You are never really alone on the path that you have chosen. When the rowdy ones throw mud at you, don't bother to answer their posts. It's a waste of your good energy. If someone honestly challenges you with their thoughts, take the time to address that. Don't let the ones who sometimes act like bozos get to you. They aren't always like this. I know it's hard to ignore it when you're getting treated like shit. But that is part of what happens to mavericks. And mavericks change the world. Mud on the overcoat and scratches on the face is just part of the job description. Thanks for being so courageous. You are an inspiration. - Bronte feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What you're failing to recognize is the technique of the smear. How many times have you heard a politician make a smear and then claim that his words are being taken out of context? The idea is simply to plant the seed, and then let it do its work while you pretend that you didn't really mean it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm witnessing much "projection" from people reading things "into" > statements that in fact, > both grammatically, literally, explicitly and imiplicitly are not being made > by the people the > misreaders are accusing of. As meditators, more mature objectivization is a > consequence > of sincerity in meditation, the mind taking the shape of more truthful > dispositions and perspectives. > > Of all that anyone leading or teaching has to convey, the most valuable > thing to cultivate and convey to others is *a moral conscience*. Only such > persons deserve to lead others , in any capacity. *Anything less is a menace > to society*. > > > On 10/15/07, feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such > > statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members > > of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. It > > doesn't seem to bother her that she lives in this town and is > > slandering her friends and neighbors. She even says she loves living > > here, which of course gives the lie to her entire argument. She may > > know a lot and be very clever, but she has neither judgment nor wisdom > > and would be better off taking her poison elsewhere. >
[FairfieldLife] Hutterists?
Has anybody heard of 'hutterists'(sp?)? I think they are some kind of Christian communists.
Re: [FairfieldLife] The good things TM gave us
Bronte Baxter wrote: > What I come up with is this. TM did deliver experience of the stillest > states of awareness, that most of us had been too outward-directed ever to > have noticed before. It pointed us toward home. That was fantastic. But just > as a bad product offer can include a really good freebie giveaway, TM > attached a pretty big pricetag to the good that it gave us. That pricetag > wasn't noticed until we'd been meditating a long time, until we'd bought the > philosophy hook line and sinker. Kind of like those credit card deals that > start out with zero interest then slowly build interest until you're amazed > to find yourself swimming in debt. > > The pricetag was, you pay a toll to the gods to ride the road to > transcendence. You get to pure consciousness using a toll road highway. At > first you're asked for only a tiny toll, no pinch at all. You're informed > this is the only way to the ocean -- taking the freeway is far too dangerous. > So the aspirant flies down the toll road, thrilled to be using it, paying 35 > cents at a tollbooth now and then. But as the years go by, the toll charge > rises -- he gets an advanced technique, he starts reading Vedas to the gods > every day, listening to chants -- his mantra gets "namah" added to it. > Bowing, bowing down. Delivering soma to the gods. > Actually the "advanced" techniques are more like the traditional mantras without omkara. But most TM'ers including teachers never step out enough to learn mantra shastra to know that and MMY never taught mantra shastra which is the science of mantras. Using bij aksharas as a meditation mantra is very controversial among Indian sages and without om even more controversial. > > > > TM gave us something. But that was the thing that was always free to us > anyway, had we only known where to look. It's something that still waits for > us, never demanding we pay a toll. It's there for the experiencing, without > gods or mantras, bajans or ego-suicide. It's just what we Are, and it just Is. A few years back I was initiated into a tantric tradition by a Indian tantric who resides locally. This tradition which is village tantra is not over scholasticized like we find in the TM movement. It had to be kept simple because village people often don't have the education to delve into things academically. But it is a very powerful tradition and Indians will tell you the most powerful tantrics are the ones who reside in the villages probably because their energies are not drained by the stress of the city. Which also means that in its simplicity it is more apropos for our modern western lifestyle. Having a personal guru (who also treats me as his buddy) is a lot different from having a remote out of touch "pop" guru. There is of course plenty of time to ask questions including very deep ones that even if you got to ask MMY he would have blown off. He also does not rule over my life but instead it is "here are some techniques to practice and when and how to practice them." We've had much discourse on mantra shastra too. It is actually very simple as is shaktipat which we use in teaching. And there is no cult. In fact I have met only a few of his other initiates. There are no group meetings as it is one-on-one instruction. What I've learned is meditation is good even if it just calms someone down for a couple of periods a day. It is amazing if it opens your eyes to reality. The Kali tradition which is dangerous unless under the instruction of a guru peels away illusion like the layers of an onion. Every week there is a new "aha!" experience. And my guru teaches that kind of experience is unending. BTW, before I learned TM I had tried some of Ramana Maharishi's techniques (and even before that when I first tried meditation I had kundalini rise). I learned TM because I intuitively felt that mantra meditation would deepen what I had already learned through self-inquiry. And it did and in fact they played off one another. Gods, BTW, are just personifications of the subtle fields that sages experienced in meditation. They were personified so that the ordinary person could conceptualize them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bronte writes: > > As we are ALL channels for our God, Curtis. What you mean "we" whiteman? (Old Tonto joke reference) >In my view, we each have a higher self, our own personal God, or you could say, our ego in its most pure individualized state. Our human bodies and personalities are channels for that being, as well as for God in the universal sense. "> Or you could say we are just humans with belief systems that make us feel more important on earth then our humble existence here would suggest. I am not channeling any being or conception of God that you have, no higher self, no personal God, I am just me. I don't accept your concept of ego as including any of these things. My eyebrows raise when I hear people claiming such things. > > You took it out of context to make me look megalamanic -- I wrote "in spite of many faults which I still intend to correct, I am a fairly clear channel for my God." And I am. God gets through my wires successfully a darn good portion of the time. It's a sad world if we have to be ashamed to say that. Did you think it made you sound like a megalomaniac? I don't share the POV that any version of the God idea is getting through your wires. > > Why I objected to her anonymous holiness the other day was not because she felt connected with God, but because she spoke of herself as superior to the people around her, people she described as beggars after her dharshan. I find that appalling. As I said, if you ever find me thinking or talking like that, drag me home by the toenails and hold me down in a bathtub of icewater. But to say "I am God" is everyone's human right, including my own. I won't be ashamed of admitting my birthright, or the fact that I lay claim to it. As everybody can. That wonderful equality was the whole point of my "it's free to all of us" post. You have the right to say anything you want. When you say "I am God" I have the right to say "Uh oh". I have my reasons. > > - Bronte > > > curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "I'm a fairly clear channel for my God" > > Double uh oh. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter > wrote: > > > > do.rflx wrote: > > I look at the quantity of people like myself in that seemingly > > 'unique' and 'special' time frame who were 'lost' in the darker side > > of the hippie daze [days], or just plain 'lost' - and because of TM > > became positive and hopeful for probably the first time in many of > > their lives. The life-saving transformation that happened to me must > > also have been evident in hundreds of thousands of others in those days. > > > > Bronte writes: > > > > You guys make a point that needs to be considered: the fact that > TM did save a lot (most?) of us drugged-out hippies from a nose-diving > lifestyle. I, too, had that experience. The first time I transcended, > the tears rolled down my cheeks for 20 minutes. I had felt so isolated > for so many years, believing in nothing beyond the world of the > senses. In that 20-minute session, I knew beyond a doubt there was a > God. I felt a sense of presence I hadn't known since I was a little > girl. All the noise in my mind had turned to stillness. > > > > And TM quickly also changed my life, in ways much like other > people's stories already told here. So if the TMO, or New Age in > general, is -- as has been alleged -- manipulating people into > becoming mindless zombies, or nice-guys-turned-possessed (Hitler: a > worst-case example) -- how can that possibly be, when TM brought so > much good into our lives? I've thought about this a good deal, and I > think it is a very important question. > > > > What I come up with is this. TM did deliver experience of the > stillest states of awareness, that most of us had been too > outward-directed ever to have noticed before. It pointed us toward > home. That was fantastic. But just as a bad product offer can include > a really good freebie giveaway, TM attached a pretty big pricetag to > the good that it gave us. That pricetag wasn't noticed until we'd been > meditating a long time, until we'd bought the philosophy hook line and > sinker. Kind of like those credit card deals that start out with zero > interest then slowly build interest until you're amazed to find > yourself swimming in debt. > > > > The pricetag was, you pay a toll to the gods to ride the road to > transcendence. You get to pure consciousness using a toll road > highway. At first you're asked for only a tiny toll, no pinch at all. > You're informed this is the only way to the ocean -- taking the > freeway is far too dangerous. So the aspirant flies down the toll > road, thrilled to be using it, paying 35 cents at a tollbooth now and > then. But as the years go by, the toll charge rises -- he gets an > advanced technique, he starts reading Vedas to the gods every day, > listening to chants -
[FairfieldLife] Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
Interesting how you take a few comments scattered over the years that MMY may or may not have said about Hitler and turn it into "MMY's interest in Hitler," which implies something quite different. And you make this blatant distortion in the interest of . . . what, precisely? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > MMY's interest in Hitler may be to the point and it may not. My interest in Hitler certainly doesn't make me a Nazi. Someone has suggested that my interest in these things is not good for me. I'd like to know why not? Is a historian's field of interest not good for him? Is a researcher's interest in his field not good for him? Even were we to make a value judgment and say cancer is a bad thing, is a cancer researcher's interest bad for him? a > > jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:44 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 4:55 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > You also may not be aware, Mahesh was a real Hitler fan > > > according to > > > > > > some movement insiders. > > > > > > > > > > I challenge you to verify these claims. You are a f. > lier ! > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post what I can find. Here's the first one: > > > > > > > > Maharishi said, on a radio show in Scandinavia, that Hitler was > > > highly > > > > evolved. > > > > > > > > Msg. #51983 > > > > > > > Of course he was-- how else could he have ammassed all of his > power; > > > conquering many countries, implementing his unspeakable > atrocities, > > > if it wasn't a manifestation of his own personal power? Those > > > mechanics don't change whether a person is good or evil. > > > > > > I don't think that's the question. The question is 'why was Mahesh > so > > darn fascinated by the guy'? > > Is he? Has he published endless volumes, and spoken at length about > Hitler, for years? Sure doesn't seem that way from what little you > have shared--it looks like a pretty minor interest on Maharishi's > part. > > Could it be he is an Asuriac guru just > > lookin' for some tips? > > > It is clear you'd like the answer to this to be "yes", so why ask me? > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
Bronte writes: As we are ALL channels for our God, Curtis. In my view, we each have a higher self, our own personal God, or you could say, our ego in its most pure individualized state. Our human bodies and personalities are channels for that being, as well as for God in the universal sense. You took it out of context to make me look megalamanic -- I wrote "in spite of many faults which I still intend to correct, I am a fairly clear channel for my God." And I am. God gets through my wires successfully a darn good portion of the time. It's a sad world if we have to be ashamed to say that. Why I objected to her anonymous holiness the other day was not because she felt connected with God, but because she spoke of herself as superior to the people around her, people she described as beggars after her dharshan. I find that appalling. As I said, if you ever find me thinking or talking like that, drag me home by the toenails and hold me down in a bathtub of icewater. But to say "I am God" is everyone's human right, including my own. I won't be ashamed of admitting my birthright, or the fact that I lay claim to it. As everybody can. That wonderful equality was the whole point of my "it's free to all of us" post. - Bronte curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "I'm a fairly clear channel for my God" Double uh oh. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > do.rflx wrote: > I look at the quantity of people like myself in that seemingly > 'unique' and 'special' time frame who were 'lost' in the darker side > of the hippie daze [days], or just plain 'lost' - and because of TM > became positive and hopeful for probably the first time in many of > their lives. The life-saving transformation that happened to me must > also have been evident in hundreds of thousands of others in those days. > > Bronte writes: > > You guys make a point that needs to be considered: the fact that TM did save a lot (most?) of us drugged-out hippies from a nose-diving lifestyle. I, too, had that experience. The first time I transcended, the tears rolled down my cheeks for 20 minutes. I had felt so isolated for so many years, believing in nothing beyond the world of the senses. In that 20-minute session, I knew beyond a doubt there was a God. I felt a sense of presence I hadn't known since I was a little girl. All the noise in my mind had turned to stillness. > > And TM quickly also changed my life, in ways much like other people's stories already told here. So if the TMO, or New Age in general, is -- as has been alleged -- manipulating people into becoming mindless zombies, or nice-guys-turned-possessed (Hitler: a worst-case example) -- how can that possibly be, when TM brought so much good into our lives? I've thought about this a good deal, and I think it is a very important question. > > What I come up with is this. TM did deliver experience of the stillest states of awareness, that most of us had been too outward-directed ever to have noticed before. It pointed us toward home. That was fantastic. But just as a bad product offer can include a really good freebie giveaway, TM attached a pretty big pricetag to the good that it gave us. That pricetag wasn't noticed until we'd been meditating a long time, until we'd bought the philosophy hook line and sinker. Kind of like those credit card deals that start out with zero interest then slowly build interest until you're amazed to find yourself swimming in debt. > > The pricetag was, you pay a toll to the gods to ride the road to transcendence. You get to pure consciousness using a toll road highway. At first you're asked for only a tiny toll, no pinch at all. You're informed this is the only way to the ocean -- taking the freeway is far too dangerous. So the aspirant flies down the toll road, thrilled to be using it, paying 35 cents at a tollbooth now and then. But as the years go by, the toll charge rises -- he gets an advanced technique, he starts reading Vedas to the gods every day, listening to chants -- his mantra gets "namah" added to it. Bowing, bowing down. Delivering soma to the gods. > > Longer and longer hours are spent meditating, and he's told this is good for him. But his health is getting weaker now, he feels irritability where he used to only feel peace. He has little time for personal pursuits because the movement requires his fulltime service. (I'm not saying everyone who meditates experiences weak health after a while, but a lot of people do.) > > But the aspirant rarely complains because he's told he's getting so much good from all this. He probably hasn't noticed a lot of progress in a long time. But he believes -- why? Because of those first great initiatory experiences! Back when the toll was 35 cents. Back when he visited his inner Source and came back again, infused with its values, dynamic into activity. But now his energy is going to Indra and Kali, Shiva and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
MMY's interest in Hitler may be to the point and it may not. My interest in Hitler certainly doesn't make me a Nazi. Someone has suggested that my interest in these things is not good for me. I'd like to know why not? Is a historian's field of interest not good for him? Is a researcher's interest in his field not good for him? Even were we to make a value judgment and say cancer is a bad thing, is a cancer researcher's interest bad for him? a jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:44 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 4:55 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > You also may not be aware, Mahesh was a real Hitler fan > > according to > > > > > some movement insiders. > > > > > > > > I challenge you to verify these claims. You are a f. lier ! > > > > > > > > > I'll post what I can find. Here's the first one: > > > > > > Maharishi said, on a radio show in Scandinavia, that Hitler was > > highly > > > evolved. > > > > > > Msg. #51983 > > > > > Of course he was-- how else could he have ammassed all of his power; > > conquering many countries, implementing his unspeakable atrocities, > > if it wasn't a manifestation of his own personal power? Those > > mechanics don't change whether a person is good or evil. > > > I don't think that's the question. The question is 'why was Mahesh so > darn fascinated by the guy'? Is he? Has he published endless volumes, and spoken at length about Hitler, for years? Sure doesn't seem that way from what little you have shared--it looks like a pretty minor interest on Maharishi's part. Could it be he is an Asuriac guru just > lookin' for some tips? > It is clear you'd like the answer to this to be "yes", so why ask me? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
What you're failing to recognize is the technique of the smear. How many times have you heard a politician make a smear and then claim that his words are being taken out of context? The idea is simply to plant the seed, and then let it do its work while you pretend that you didn't really mean it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm witnessing much "projection" from people reading things "into" > statements that in fact, > both grammatically, literally, explicitly and imiplicitly are not being made > by the people the > misreaders are accusing of. As meditators, more mature objectivization is a > consequence > of sincerity in meditation, the mind taking the shape of more truthful > dispositions and perspectives. > > Of all that anyone leading or teaching has to convey, the most valuable > thing to cultivate and convey to others is *a moral conscience*. Only such > persons deserve to lead others , in any capacity. *Anything less is a menace > to society*. > > > On 10/15/07, feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such > > statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members > > of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. It > > doesn't seem to bother her that she lives in this town and is > > slandering her friends and neighbors. She even says she loves living > > here, which of course gives the lie to her entire argument. She may > > know a lot and be very clever, but she has neither judgment nor wisdom > > and would be better off taking her poison elsewhere. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You > > Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?" > > wrote: > > > > > > A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi > > and Nazi > > > era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. > > > > > > Is that clear? > > > > > > *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no > > > placein my > > > mission.* > > > > > > > > > On 10/15/07, feste37 wrote: > > > > > > > > So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his > > > > people "to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age > > > > principles in them in advance of the violence." Any shred of evidence > > > > to support this preposterous notion? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and > > > > Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, > > > > the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty > > > > Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second > > > > post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to > > > > be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in > > > > them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet > > > > erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that > > stage. > > > > > > > > > > I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be > > > > singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to > > > > individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity > > > > of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all > > > > directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually > > > > taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very > > > > strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern > > > > philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been > > > > forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original > > > > teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was > > > > too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas > > > > stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As > > > > such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something > > > > deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in > > > > concert with each other. > > > > > > > > > > - Bronte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at > > > > a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this > > > > town. I chose it and love it here. a > > > > > > > > > > feste37 wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi > > > > murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > > > > > > > > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a > > movement > > > > > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > > > > > > > > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > > > > > that you cannot mak
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I'm always pleased to get a reaction. My advice to you is, acquire a sense of humor. Failing that, cook a meal for your woman, if you have one (or your man, if you happen to be a homosexual), and then maybe you'll calm down a bit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "feste37" wrote: "I see what you are doing very well. Here's my > advice: forget about the Nazis. Thinking about them is doing you no > good at all. Instead, go out and buy a big cookbook and cook a > delicious meal for your man, if you have one. It will make you feel > better." > > Edg: > After what I've been through trying to knock sense into this community > about the necessity of being honorable and moral at the subtlest > levels, you, Feste, come out with this horrid "get thee to thy kitchen > you dumb woman." > > GAWD! > > I'm not expecting anyone to protest much cuz this is same ol' same ol' > man-shit, but Angela, if you want them, you can have all my remaining > posting privileges this week until you've posted enough to thoroughly > whack this hideous sexist psychic assault. Hoping you won't just dump > outta here cuz of this rust brain's boorish crud, or that so many here > are spinning your words to mean things you've not said. > > One thing's very clear. The TMO takes money by the millions from > folks and takes so much more without the least hint of caring about > the costs-to-lifestyle that so many paid in so many ways beyond mere > expenditures. The cold-heartedness of this thuggary is clear in > almost any interaction with the movement, and I, for one, could easily > see Bevan turning a gas valve on in the dome if he was told to do so > -- or, maybe even if it merely got him laid. > > Feste, by your remarks that demean HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION, you > have clearly put yourself into the same TMO fascist camp. Please > apologize to all women everywhere, and admit it was just a callous > joke not a statement of your philosophy. > > Edg > > > > No matter your intent -- even a sweet repartee involving a gender > nose-tweaking kindly put-down -- > > Edg > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and > > Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a > > > > > > feste37 wrote: You're > > doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between > > > the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test > > > (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I > > > could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: > > > > > > > > > How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? > > > > > > > > > > Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in > > 1992, when > > > > > the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent > that what > > > > > was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few > > concepts and > > > > > ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another > group in a > > > > > different time and culture, and then try to show how similar > > they are. > > > > > What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two > movements are > > > > > completely different, and you end up making statements that are > > > > > plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many > people in > > > > > this town who have helped to create it as the place that > apparently > > > > > you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment > > could > > > > > see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do > > so--but you, > > > > > carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC > > > > documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it > would > > > > become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the > arising > > > > of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in > > > > meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's > > ideas, > > > > if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society > > > > adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be > > > > following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths > of > > > > millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place > > > > already, and if left to his own devices we would see western > cities > > > > being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city- > > > > plan which segregates people by castes. > > > > > > > > That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is > > > > factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? > > Give me > > > > a break! Many of the German fa
[FairfieldLife] Re: The good things TM gave us
"I'm a fairly clear channel for my God" Double uh oh. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > do.rflx wrote: > I look at the quantity of people like myself in that seemingly > 'unique' and 'special' time frame who were 'lost' in the darker side > of the hippie daze [days], or just plain 'lost' - and because of TM > became positive and hopeful for probably the first time in many of > their lives. The life-saving transformation that happened to me must > also have been evident in hundreds of thousands of others in those days. > > Bronte writes: > > You guys make a point that needs to be considered: the fact that TM did save a lot (most?) of us drugged-out hippies from a nose-diving lifestyle. I, too, had that experience. The first time I transcended, the tears rolled down my cheeks for 20 minutes. I had felt so isolated for so many years, believing in nothing beyond the world of the senses. In that 20-minute session, I knew beyond a doubt there was a God. I felt a sense of presence I hadn't known since I was a little girl. All the noise in my mind had turned to stillness. > > And TM quickly also changed my life, in ways much like other people's stories already told here. So if the TMO, or New Age in general, is -- as has been alleged -- manipulating people into becoming mindless zombies, or nice-guys-turned-possessed (Hitler: a worst-case example) -- how can that possibly be, when TM brought so much good into our lives? I've thought about this a good deal, and I think it is a very important question. > > What I come up with is this. TM did deliver experience of the stillest states of awareness, that most of us had been too outward-directed ever to have noticed before. It pointed us toward home. That was fantastic. But just as a bad product offer can include a really good freebie giveaway, TM attached a pretty big pricetag to the good that it gave us. That pricetag wasn't noticed until we'd been meditating a long time, until we'd bought the philosophy hook line and sinker. Kind of like those credit card deals that start out with zero interest then slowly build interest until you're amazed to find yourself swimming in debt. > > The pricetag was, you pay a toll to the gods to ride the road to transcendence. You get to pure consciousness using a toll road highway. At first you're asked for only a tiny toll, no pinch at all. You're informed this is the only way to the ocean -- taking the freeway is far too dangerous. So the aspirant flies down the toll road, thrilled to be using it, paying 35 cents at a tollbooth now and then. But as the years go by, the toll charge rises -- he gets an advanced technique, he starts reading Vedas to the gods every day, listening to chants -- his mantra gets "namah" added to it. Bowing, bowing down. Delivering soma to the gods. > > Longer and longer hours are spent meditating, and he's told this is good for him. But his health is getting weaker now, he feels irritability where he used to only feel peace. He has little time for personal pursuits because the movement requires his fulltime service. (I'm not saying everyone who meditates experiences weak health after a while, but a lot of people do.) > > But the aspirant rarely complains because he's told he's getting so much good from all this. He probably hasn't noticed a lot of progress in a long time. But he believes -- why? Because of those first great initiatory experiences! Back when the toll was 35 cents. Back when he visited his inner Source and came back again, infused with its values, dynamic into activity. But now his energy is going to Indra and Kali, Shiva and Saraswati. Pictures of gods line the walls of his house. An alter is in his bedroom. And because he's not happy, perhaps he starts to visit other gurus, hoping for renewal of those early days of purity and joy. But instead he just accumulates more teachers, who teach the very same things only rearranged a little. They give him a new mantra or a special name. Maybe they give him a hug. He has so much invested already -- all these years of his life! So he hangs on yet stronger, dedicating even more of himself to spiritual advancement. > > And he is taught to how to handle the frustration, that feeling he used to get that his life was supposed to be more. That is just egoistic desire, he is told. So he surrenders his personal needs. When his mind starts questioning, he also has been taught the solution to that: know that the wise embrace paradox -- nothing is real, no thing is true. Everything but the Absolute is illusion. > > The aspirant surrenders mind and desire. He offers them on the alter of his meditation, of his devotion. He sings more hymns to the gods. "Oh, Mother, relieve me from this suffering." She does. The goddess does. The aspirant feels better after meditation and chanting. His depression miraculously disappears. It comes back, but it goes away whe
[FairfieldLife] Re: Righeous Anger As A Form Of Jacking Off
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Curtis posted an insight today, in his wonderful > Hemingwayesque do-it-in-as-few-words-as-possible > style, that still has me reeling from its > profundity. > > It just explains so MUCH, man. > > Think Rush Limbaugh. Think Bill McNeil. Think > Ann Coulter. Think any number of equally angry > leftist shock pundits. Their whole *schtick* > is righteous anger. That's what pumps their > ratings up and keeps them on top. Because > that's what the audience wants to hear. > > So *think* about that. A TV audience whose lives > are so empty that they get off on righteous anger. > Is that sad, or what? > > I really think I might have been onto something > with my quipped-without-thinking-it-through > "righteous anger is the closest they can get > to feeling righteous" one-liner. That may really > be the issue, both for the TV pundits who feed > the need for righteous anger, and for the TV > audiences who feed on it. > > It's real Old Testament stuff, man. That book > was just *full* of righteous anger. And it's > still a Best Seller today. So is the Gita, if > you are flexible enough to look at it that way. > I mean, Krishna is up there trying to convince > Arjuna to go out and waste his relatives by > inspiring his sense of righteous anger. Or his > sense of "duty," which in my book is about the > same thing when it comes to war. :-) > > Righteous anger is a RUSH. It gets yer heart > pumpin' and yer blood rushin' around in yer > veins and yer adrenaline pumpin' and it gets > you HIGH, man. Be HONEST, people! The last > time you lost it to a fit of righteous anger, > didn't it feel GOOD, at the time? Wasn't it > a RUSH? > > Almost as good as the other kinds of rushes > you've experienced in life. Almost. If the > other kind -- like samadhi, or the smile on > someone's face after you help them when you > didn't have to, or just the joy of watching > a sunset -- aren't really happening for you. > > And, like the other kind of rushes, the rush > of righteous anger is addicting. It *shifts > your assemblage point*. It *alters your state > of consciousness*. It *changes your state of > attention*. > > One moment you are bored shitless with your > life, and then you read something or see some- > thing on the News and wham! -- it provokes > that awesome sense of righteous anger in you. > "How could anyone DO this? How could anyone > SAY this? And about ME, or people like me? > I've got to strike back, or everyone will > think I'm a wuss." > > If you strike back, you're a wuss. > > In Buddhist thought, that is. > > In Hindu thought, as expressed so eloquently > by Krishna, you should go out and waste the > people whose words or actions affronted you. > Shoot them full of arrows and leave them to > die in a pool of their own blood. Yeah... > that's the ticket. *That* will sure prove > that we Pandavas have the market on morality > and righteousness and knowing what's what, > won't it? > > Well, will it? > > Or will it just prove that the "righteous" > who go to war out of righteous anger are > just puny-assed little egos who are so out > of touch with their feelings that they mistake > righteous anger for righteousness? > > "This person *deserves* to be flamed, because > he's a liar." > > "This nation *deserves* to be invaded, because > they're saying that they aren't developing nukes, > and they're liars." > > As above, so below. Fairfield Life is a micro- > cosm of the world, working out the angst of the > world. And just as nations declare war on each > other for no better reason than righteous anger, > so do individuals here at Fairfield Life. > > And it goes on and on, no matter who mentions > it and no matter what approach they take to trying > to change things. The recent push to make flaming > a Bad Thing, and punishable by the worst fate that > some of the righteously angry can imagine -- a > week without being able to be righteously angry > in public -- a dismal failure. Nothing has changed, > despite all the well-intentioned wishes and less > well-intentioned posturing. All of them were like > pouring lighter fluid on a fire to put it out. > > The problem, as I see it, is to somehow convey > to the folks who get off on righteous anger that > there are other ways of getting off. You really > don't *have* to sit there at your computer, jerk- > ing your mouse furiously and pounding, pounding, > pounding away at that keyboard to attain a sense > of...uh...release, and fulfillment. > > You could do the same thing by just writing > something positive and uplifting for a change. > Well said. I declare you the winner of this conversation. :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
"feste37" wrote: "I see what you are doing very well. Here's my advice: forget about the Nazis. Thinking about them is doing you no good at all. Instead, go out and buy a big cookbook and cook a delicious meal for your man, if you have one. It will make you feel better." Edg: After what I've been through trying to knock sense into this community about the necessity of being honorable and moral at the subtlest levels, you, Feste, come out with this horrid "get thee to thy kitchen you dumb woman." GAWD! I'm not expecting anyone to protest much cuz this is same ol' same ol' man-shit, but Angela, if you want them, you can have all my remaining posting privileges this week until you've posted enough to thoroughly whack this hideous sexist psychic assault. Hoping you won't just dump outta here cuz of this rust brain's boorish crud, or that so many here are spinning your words to mean things you've not said. One thing's very clear. The TMO takes money by the millions from folks and takes so much more without the least hint of caring about the costs-to-lifestyle that so many paid in so many ways beyond mere expenditures. The cold-heartedness of this thuggary is clear in almost any interaction with the movement, and I, for one, could easily see Bevan turning a gas valve on in the dome if he was told to do so -- or, maybe even if it merely got him laid. Feste, by your remarks that demean HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION, you have clearly put yourself into the same TMO fascist camp. Please apologize to all women everywhere, and admit it was just a callous joke not a statement of your philosophy. Edg No matter your intent -- even a sweet repartee involving a gender nose-tweaking kindly put-down -- Edg > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and > Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a > > > > feste37 wrote: You're > doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between > > the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test > > (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I > > could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: > > > > > > > How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? > > > > > > > > Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in > 1992, when > > > > the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what > > > > was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few > concepts and > > > > ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a > > > > different time and culture, and then try to show how similar > they are. > > > > What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are > > > > completely different, and you end up making statements that are > > > > plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in > > > > this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently > > > > you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment > could > > > > see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do > so--but you, > > > > carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. > > > > > > > > > If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC > > > documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would > > > become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising > > > of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in > > > meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's > ideas, > > > if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society > > > adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be > > > following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of > > > millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place > > > already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities > > > being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city- > > > plan which segregates people by castes. > > > > > > That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is > > > factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? > Give me > > > a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago > > > proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones > > > sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific > sense > > > of that word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > >
[FairfieldLife] The good things TM gave us
do.rflx wrote: I look at the quantity of people like myself in that seemingly 'unique' and 'special' time frame who were 'lost' in the darker side of the hippie daze [days], or just plain 'lost' - and because of TM became positive and hopeful for probably the first time in many of their lives. The life-saving transformation that happened to me must also have been evident in hundreds of thousands of others in those days. Bronte writes: You guys make a point that needs to be considered: the fact that TM did save a lot (most?) of us drugged-out hippies from a nose-diving lifestyle. I, too, had that experience. The first time I transcended, the tears rolled down my cheeks for 20 minutes. I had felt so isolated for so many years, believing in nothing beyond the world of the senses. In that 20-minute session, I knew beyond a doubt there was a God. I felt a sense of presence I hadn't known since I was a little girl. All the noise in my mind had turned to stillness. And TM quickly also changed my life, in ways much like other people's stories already told here. So if the TMO, or New Age in general, is -- as has been alleged -- manipulating people into becoming mindless zombies, or nice-guys-turned-possessed (Hitler: a worst-case example) -- how can that possibly be, when TM brought so much good into our lives? I've thought about this a good deal, and I think it is a very important question. What I come up with is this. TM did deliver experience of the stillest states of awareness, that most of us had been too outward-directed ever to have noticed before. It pointed us toward home. That was fantastic. But just as a bad product offer can include a really good freebie giveaway, TM attached a pretty big pricetag to the good that it gave us. That pricetag wasn't noticed until we'd been meditating a long time, until we'd bought the philosophy hook line and sinker. Kind of like those credit card deals that start out with zero interest then slowly build interest until you're amazed to find yourself swimming in debt. The pricetag was, you pay a toll to the gods to ride the road to transcendence. You get to pure consciousness using a toll road highway. At first you're asked for only a tiny toll, no pinch at all. You're informed this is the only way to the ocean -- taking the freeway is far too dangerous. So the aspirant flies down the toll road, thrilled to be using it, paying 35 cents at a tollbooth now and then. But as the years go by, the toll charge rises -- he gets an advanced technique, he starts reading Vedas to the gods every day, listening to chants -- his mantra gets "namah" added to it. Bowing, bowing down. Delivering soma to the gods. Longer and longer hours are spent meditating, and he's told this is good for him. But his health is getting weaker now, he feels irritability where he used to only feel peace. He has little time for personal pursuits because the movement requires his fulltime service. (I'm not saying everyone who meditates experiences weak health after a while, but a lot of people do.) But the aspirant rarely complains because he's told he's getting so much good from all this. He probably hasn't noticed a lot of progress in a long time. But he believes -- why? Because of those first great initiatory experiences! Back when the toll was 35 cents. Back when he visited his inner Source and came back again, infused with its values, dynamic into activity. But now his energy is going to Indra and Kali, Shiva and Saraswati. Pictures of gods line the walls of his house. An alter is in his bedroom. And because he's not happy, perhaps he starts to visit other gurus, hoping for renewal of those early days of purity and joy. But instead he just accumulates more teachers, who teach the very same things only rearranged a little. They give him a new mantra or a special name. Maybe they give him a hug. He has so much invested already -- all these years of his life! So he hangs on yet stronger, dedicating even more of himself to spiritual advancement. And he is taught to how to handle the frustration, that feeling he used to get that his life was supposed to be more. That is just egoistic desire, he is told. So he surrenders his personal needs. When his mind starts questioning, he also has been taught the solution to that: know that the wise embrace paradox -- nothing is real, no thing is true. Everything but the Absolute is illusion. The aspirant surrenders mind and desire. He offers them on the alter of his meditation, of his devotion. He sings more hymns to the gods. "Oh, Mother, relieve me from this suffering." She does. The goddess does. The aspirant feels better after meditation and chanting. His depression miraculously disappears. It comes back, but it goes away when he meditates. He knows the gracious gods are taking his pain away. Relieved of so much of what once made him a person, he feels much l
Re: [FairfieldLife] Lurk, Miscommunication Re: Angela's take on the pompous shit
authfriend wrote: > This business of Hitler and the New Age comes > from the same cryptohistory drawer as The DaVinci > Code. No serious historian would touch it with a > ten-foot pole. Look it up on the Web and see how > many of the hundreds of thousands of sites > devoted to it are fundie Christian. They didn't > invent it, but they've picked up on it to scare > people away from anything New Age. > ROTFL! So someone dreamt up the use of the swastikas in the Nazi regime because they thought it looked cool? I don't think so. Like I said it may not have been that Hitler and his cohorts "believed" in the New Age but they *used* it to compel the German masses. But there is a lot of documented information on Hitler and his involvement in secret societies including the Thule and Vril organizations. I have a *well* documented book in hand by a couple of French historians Michel Bertrand and Jean Angelini who wrote under the name Jean-Michel Angebert with 23 pages of referential notes. The book also has an extensive bibliography. The book, "The Occult and the Third Reich" is a fascinating read that I purchased when the English translation was published in 1974 by MacMillan Publishing. > This is my last post; I'm going to be away next > week, so I'll take this crap up when I get back > if it hasn't already died a merciful death. Escaping the possible "false flag" operation that might occur this week due to the extensive and largest military drill ever? Keep "eyes wide open."
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such > statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members > of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. Same old story about the snake and the string. Without light, it remains a snake.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
2007-10-15
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
I'm witnessing much "projection" from people reading things "into" statements that in fact, both grammatically, literally, explicitly and imiplicitly are not being made by the people the misreaders are accusing of. As meditators, more mature objectivization is a consequence of sincerity in meditation, the mind taking the shape of more truthful dispositions and perspectives. Of all that anyone leading or teaching has to convey, the most valuable thing to cultivate and convey to others is *a moral conscience*. Only such persons deserve to lead others , in any capacity. *Anything less is a menace to society*. On 10/15/07, feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such > statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members > of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. It > doesn't seem to bother her that she lives in this town and is > slandering her friends and neighbors. She even says she loves living > here, which of course gives the lie to her entire argument. She may > know a lot and be very clever, but she has neither judgment nor wisdom > and would be better off taking her poison elsewhere. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You > Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi > and Nazi > > era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. > > > > Is that clear? > > > > *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no > > placein my > > mission.* > > > > > > On 10/15/07, feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his > > > people "to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age > > > principles in them in advance of the violence." Any shred of evidence > > > to support this preposterous notion? > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and > > > Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, > > > the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty > > > Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second > > > post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to > > > be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in > > > them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet > > > erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that > stage. > > > > > > > > I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be > > > singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to > > > individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity > > > of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all > > > directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually > > > taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very > > > strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern > > > philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been > > > forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original > > > teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was > > > too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas > > > stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As > > > such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something > > > deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in > > > concert with each other. > > > > > > > > - Bronte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at > > > a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this > > > town. I chose it and love it here. a > > > > > > > > feste37 wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi > > > murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > > > > > > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a > movement > > > > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > > > > > > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > > > > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > > > > > > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same > ideas > > > > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > > > > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third > Reich and > > > > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > > > > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the > often > > > > repeated quotes of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
I'm not ascribing evil intent to anyone and shall probably never do so. a Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: I might not have time to elaborate too much this week since I've got a house guest from China staying with me. But I'll do what I can. Also, it's a big subject that can't be dealt with in a few emails. It definitely can't be dismissed with a facile phrase like "the Nazis highjacked the New Age." I've done long and serious scholarship and research on the topic. The New Age (for lack of a better term) aspect of German fascism was swept under the rug beginning with the Nuremberg war crimes trials, so this Egon guy probably never heard of it. I would never have heard of it either if I hadn't been meditating by some real fluke. Nazi Germany was crawling with all kinds of gurus--not just Indian, but also Tibetan, Chinese and Japanese. But as soon as the war was over in 45, they all vanished over night. I mean totally vanished in one swell foop so radical that it must have been orchestrated through a single source. The guy who taught me when I was six was a left over who was hiding out under a shepherd's cloak. I know you're busy being a host to guests but I have to ask, are you assigning some malicious intent from these easterners in Germany or a compassionate one? The Tibetans (in particular) had a long-standing connection with eastern Europe, esp. the Russian Tsars. In fact after the Tibetan diaspora numerous texts which were lost could only be rediscovered in Russia, where a large repository still exists. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. It doesn't seem to bother her that she lives in this town and is slandering her friends and neighbors. She even says she loves living here, which of course gives the lie to her entire argument. She may know a lot and be very clever, but she has neither judgment nor wisdom and would be better off taking her poison elsewhere. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi > era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. > > Is that clear? > > *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no > placein my > mission.* > > > On 10/15/07, feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his > > people "to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age > > principles in them in advance of the violence." Any shred of evidence > > to support this preposterous notion? > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter > > wrote: > > > > > > His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and > > Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, > > the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty > > Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second > > post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to > > be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in > > them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet > > erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. > > > > > > I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be > > singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to > > individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity > > of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all > > directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually > > taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very > > strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern > > philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been > > forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original > > teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was > > too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas > > stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As > > such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something > > deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in > > concert with each other. > > > > > > - Bronte > > > > > > > > > > > > Angela Mailander wrote: > > > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at > > a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this > > town. I chose it and love it here. a > > > > > > feste37 wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi > > murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > > > > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement > > > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > > > > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > > > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > > > > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas > > > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > > > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and > > > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > > > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often > > > repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was > > > repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it > > > enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It > > > meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, > > > and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as > > > pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had > > > to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. > > > Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in > > > karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed > > > in detachment and they believed > > > > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta > > > run. a > > > > > > > > Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander w
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
If you're referring to my comment it was about TTC not just people learning TM. Becoming a teacher was a magnitude much deeper than just being a meditator or even Sidha. What you're saying is that meditation became a replacement for drugs albeit a "safe" one. That would have worked with a lot of meditation courses but at the time in the 1970's TM was probably one of the least cult like of the organizations (that manifested later). I can just imagine what might have happened if I did one of Muktananda's weekend sessions (and I had friends at the time that did) and became involved with that organization which was more "religious" in nature. My relatives would have had a fit but because of the well publicized secular nature of the TMO they were supportive even when I did TTC and then the Sidhis (which they loved to have me tell people about my "flying" just to see the reaction). By the time I did TM I was already far from the musician's drug scene. In fact the other two members of the jazz trio I played in also started TM and one also became a teacher. What I am referring to is how Maharishi invented "yuppies." :) Rick Archer wrote: > I’d like to comment on someone’s observation that Maharishi took the best > and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult > zombies. Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out > hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned > TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and > was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became > addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very > muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my > druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends > with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell > similar stories. This doesn’t excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO > that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where > credit is due. It’s not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 > 9:22 AM > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
When did I say Mahesh prepared his people to commit mass murder? These are conclusions you are drawing, these are not accusations I am making. I'm beginning to think some folks in Ff don't know how to read. Not all responses have been on the level of get yourself barefoot into the kitchen, but some have. Tsk tsk. "Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. Is that clear? I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no place in my mission. On 10/15/07, feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people "to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence." Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. > > I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in concert with each other. > > - Bronte > > > > Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often > repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was > repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it > enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It > meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, > and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as > pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had > to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. > Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in > karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed > in detachment and they believed > > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta > run. a > > > > Vaj wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to > establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact > terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in > establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the > way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the > thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real > in the same sense that the terroris
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
2007-10-15
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
There is corroberating articles and perhaps even video at this link: http://NewUSConcentrationCamps.andmuchmore.com regarding US concentration camps already built. Of all that anyone leading or teaching has to convey, the most valuable thing to cultivate and convey to others is *a moral conscience*. Only such persons deserve to lead others , in any capacity. *Anything less is a menace to society*. On 10/15/07, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I agree that the TMO can't be singled out, and if I did, I was in error. > There's tons of New Age stuff around, just as there was in Germany before > and during Hitler. Also, don't forget that I've been a meditator for going > on sixty-two years now. The worst thing I've said about TMO and other New > Age is that they may have been a distraction. They may have prevented > political action when stories of torture first came out. And then, nobody > has touched my question about the Burmese monks giving their lives for > democracy and the political freedom of others while we are doing what > exactly? > > There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built > (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas > valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us > know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing > torture and death. a > > *Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi > Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement > has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did > already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She > said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass > murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. > So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could > mean we're not yet at that stage. > > I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out > for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual > responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual > ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're > finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, > certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The > good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty > much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the > original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I > was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas > stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it > stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, > which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in concert with each > other. > > - Bronte > > > > *Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to > how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and > love it here. a > > *feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , > Angela Mailander > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often > repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was > repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it > enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It > meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, > and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as > pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had > to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. > Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in > karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed > in detachment and they believed > > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta > run. a > > > > Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > Yes, I totally agree. H
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
2007-10-15
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. Is that clear? *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no placein my mission.* On 10/15/07, feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his > people "to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age > principles in them in advance of the violence." Any shred of evidence > to support this preposterous notion? > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and > Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, > the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty > Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second > post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to > be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in > them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet > erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. > > > > I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be > singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to > individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity > of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all > directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually > taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very > strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern > philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been > forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original > teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was > too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas > stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As > such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something > deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in > concert with each other. > > > > - Bronte > > > > > > > > Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at > a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this > town. I chose it and love it here. a > > > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi > murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement > > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas > > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and > > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often > > repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was > > repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it > > enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It > > meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, > > and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as > > pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had > > to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. > > Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in > > karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed > > in detachment and they believed > > > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta > > run. a > > > > > > Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to > > establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact > > terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in > > establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the > > way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the > > thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real > > in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are > > not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention > > on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the > > notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive > > evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of > > the fact that Paul
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I see what you are doing very well. Here's my advice: forget about the Nazis. Thinking about them is doing you no good at all. Instead, go out and buy a big cookbook and cook a delicious meal for your man, if you have one. It will make you feel better. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You're doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between > the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test > (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I > could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: > > > > > How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? > > > > > > Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when > > > the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what > > > was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and > > > ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a > > > different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. > > > What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are > > > completely different, and you end up making statements that are > > > plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in > > > this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently > > > you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could > > > see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, > > > carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. > > > > > > If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC > > documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would > > become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising > > of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in > > meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, > > if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society > > adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be > > following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of > > millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place > > already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities > > being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city- > > plan which segregates people by castes. > > > > That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is > > factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me > > a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago > > proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones > > sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense > > of that word. > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
RE: [FairfieldLife] Posting Limits
P.S., Angela, you’re up to 27 posts. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people "to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence." Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. > > I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in concert with each other. > > - Bronte > > > > Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often > repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was > repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it > enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It > meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, > and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as > pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had > to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. > Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in > karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed > in detachment and they believed > > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta > run. a > > > > Vaj wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to > establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact > terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in > establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the > way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the > thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real > in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are > not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention > on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the > notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive > evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of > the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death > camps. a > > > > > > > > Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and > Mahesh "yogis" spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? > > > > > > Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be > by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing > the TMO for ideas in undermi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] > There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a Good Lord. This is getting beyond bizarre. [snip]
[FairfieldLife] Posting Limits
To Angela and other newcomers. A while back we established a limit of 35 posts per week to “force” people to favor quality over quantity and hopefully, to cut down on bickering that was resulting in the forum being overrun with a lot of posts that the majority were not interested in. The tactic worked pretty well and policy is still in effect. The “counter” is reset every Friday at midnight. So you might want to pace yourself and consolidate some of your shorter responses. Your contributions are appreciated. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I agree that the TMO can't be singled out, and if I did, I was in error. There's tons of New Age stuff around, just as there was in Germany before and during Hitler. Also, don't forget that I've been a meditator for going on sixty-two years now. The worst thing I've said about TMO and other New Age is that they may have been a distraction. They may have prevented political action when stories of torture first came out. And then, nobody has touched my question about the Burmese monks giving their lives for democracy and the political freedom of others while we are doing what exactly? There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a Bronte Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a > > Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence
[FairfieldLife] To Hugh/ Re: Links between New Age and Naziism -- in Fairfield?
Hugh wrote: If you are seriously interested in human origins a much better place to start research would be the books of Richard Dawkins, try the "Blind Watchmaker" or "River out of Eden" A good understanding of evolution is an essential starting place before considering the tripe tossed out by uneducated new age gurus. Bronte writes: Hugh, have you ever READ Sitchen? I don't think so, because if you had you would know what a scholar he is -- to the point of being knitpicky boring as hell. He is esteemed in his field, archeology -- no New Ager. And he makes a very strong case, from archeological evidence up the gazoo (it fills 12 or so books) that mankind's origins are extraterrestrial. I get that you're a fact-loving guy, and I like that. But I like Angela more. You go further than others but drop the curtain at looking at certain possibilities (like alien dna, like the dhali-lama radio connection) because -- ? They challenge your assumptions? Angela doesn't stop at the assumptions, she keeps going. I have a feeling nothing would stop her. Angela - don't be Vaj's soulmate - be mine! __ - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
"t's a big topic, and a little too early to dismiss it as unworthy of considerations. I've barely laid the groundwork." Uh oh... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Some of you are a little hasty in drawing conclusions about what I've said so far and even the nature of my mind. So far, all I've done is drawn a few comparisons that life and study have presented me with. I have not drawn any of many possible conclusions that could be drawn from these comparisons. It's a big topic, and a little too early to dismiss it as unworthy of considerations. I've barely laid the groundwork. a > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? > > Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when > the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what > was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and > ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a > different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. > What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are > completely different, and you end up making statements that are > plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in > this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently > you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could > see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, > carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > Research has shown again and again that ordinary folks are very > willing to hurt others with electric shock in laboratory settings. > Experience has shown again and again that folks do not interfere when > they see someone hurt someone else. Add to that absolute devotion to > a guru, the brainwashing of minds made susceptible through meditation > (the beliefs about not being the doer etc), egos willing to do > anything to prove they're enlightened, group isolation, belief in > establishing heaven on earth, and doing God's will, and you've got a > recipe for what happened in Germany. Call it psychosis or what you > will, it happened on a very large scale in Germany. I don't think > Germans are any more psychotic than anyone else. We are all subject > to social engineering when you get us young enough. a > > > > jim_flanegin wrote: --- > In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not > > the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are > > committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) > > death is not real. a > > > > > > > I think in order to commit attrocities, there has to be a fundamental > > lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, and I've heard that > > called sociopathy. Whatever else the sociopath uses as justification > > for hurting and killing others is just rationalizing this basic lack > > of empathy for others. > > > > It doesn't follow at all thnat if we are experiencing a), b) and d) > > above, that we are therefore capable of comitting attrocities. As for > > c), that sounds psychotic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Again, my comparison is in no way intended to dismiss or diminish what TM has done for people. It's not part of what I am discussing. I have not attacked anyone with my comparison. A comparison is simply a comparison. Conclusions come much later. a Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of do.rflex Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 10:51 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a year he told me, "That meditation saved your life, boy." And after I became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. I had similar experiences with my parents. My dad was an alcoholic and my mom was in a mental hospital. TM helped them both tremendously. My mom actually spent 9 months in Switzerland with MMY and came back quite transformed. Im grateful to him for allowing her to come. It was a gift to me, as he knew very well she wouldnt accomplish much there. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
You are making some unwarranted assumptions about what gets published where. Note that in your case they are assumptions since you don't read other languages. In my case, however, it's not assumptions but real reading experience and research experience. The two dudes that started the Thule Society were indeed a couple of shady characters. Whose servants they were is unclear. But they did start the society that created Hitler. Others came on board of course, and the whole story would take twenty pages to lay out. To do so is not part of my point. Wikipedia is useful, but hardly qualifies as a scholarly tool. See how far you'd get in grad school citing Wikipedia. It may serve as a beginning point of research but is no substitute for serious research and scholarship. a hugheshugo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not exonerating anyone, nor am I blaming anyone. I assume that when you say that you've read everything you could find on WWII, you mean what you could find in English. I read German, French, and Russian and can get through Dutch, Italian, Spanish and Danish given time and a dictionary. I went to high school in three different countries and learned early that the history that is taught in the U.S. is not the same history that is taught in, say, France. As for conspiracy theory bullshit, an objective researcher reads that also and with as critical an eye as she reads everything else. In fact, the minute a culture makes something taboo, she definitely takes a closer look. As for references, most of what I've got is in German and in French. I'll provide those references if you read those languages. > No need, if something as interesting as this has been written about in France and Germany it will have been picked up by English historians too. In fact wikipedia has a good entry on both of them, they sound like a couple of characters to say the least! No mention of them "making" Hitler, but plenty on where they got their money (they were agents of foreign governments). If you have better sources why not bring wikipedia up to date. That's all I can find online, apart from loads of Illuminati/zionist stuff. Will check my history books to make sure. Thanks for writing all this, always nice to know there could be more to the world. > > Now, about the two guys: one of them is Moses Pinkeles (probably a Jew), a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung. The agent of the pope he hung out with in New York in 1915 (two years after the creation of the Federal Reserve (which, by published admission of some of its members, was a conspiracy) was Franz von Papen. He was a Papal Chamberlain and best bud of Eugenio Pacelli, Papal Nuncio in Germany, the man who later becomes Pius XII. > > Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) later works directly under Himmler, establishes a Buddhist monastery in Berlin and goes on several expeditions to Tibet for Hitler, the first of which is to deliver a radio to the Dalai Lama (not the current guy, but his predecessor) so that Adolf and the Lama can chat daily. > > Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) is a useful fellow, it appears. In addition to working behind the scenes to help put Hitler in charge of Germany, he also helps the Shah of Iran grab the throne (though the evidence is somewhat sketchy in this instance), but he engineers several revolutions in China, working for three different war lordsno fuzzy evidence this time, but clear as day. He always has enough money to do these things, (buying a newspaper for Hitler, for example, which became the official Nazi rag) but all efforts to trace the source(s) of this money, have remained fruitless. > > The other, equally mysterious and useful guy with unknown sources of money at his back and who blew into Munich with multiple names was Rudolf Glauer, a.k.a. Erwin Torre, a.k.a. the Baron Rudolf, Freiherr von Sebottendorf. Much of Rudy's life lies in darkness, but it seems that as a young man, he was initiated into a Masonic Order by a Jewish banker by the name of Termudi in Turkey, and, with Termudi's guidance, he made it to the level of Rosicrucian Grand Master. By the time he's going on forty and just before coming to Germany, he is adopted by another Rosicrucian, the German expatriate, Freiherr von Sebottendorf und von der Rose. If Rudy were to be useful in Germany, he definitely needed that von in front of his name. > > It was primarily Rudy and Moses who provided the occult philosophy to the Thule Society which became an impor
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You're doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: > > > How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? > > > > Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when > > the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what > > was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and > > ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a > > different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. > > What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are > > completely different, and you end up making statements that are > > plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in > > this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently > > you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could > > see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, > > carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. > > > If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC > documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would > become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising > of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in > meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, > if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society > adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be > following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of > millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place > already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities > being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city- > plan which segregates people by castes. > > That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is > factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me > a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago > proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones > sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense > of that word. > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Again let me state clearly that I have drawn some comparisons. I have made no judgments about either Hitler or Mahesh. Those judgments have all come from the group, not from me. a "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'd like to comment on someone's observation that Maharishi took the best > and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult > zombies. That's total nonsense. > Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out > hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned > TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and > was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became > addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very > muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my > druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends > with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell > similar stories. Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a year he told me, "That meditation saved your life, boy." And after I became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. > This doesn't excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO > that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where > credit is due. It's not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. I don't understand what the hell Maharishi has been, and is, doing and I don't like it. But I can't argue with my *experience* of Transcendental Meditation as the best thing I've ever done. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RIP Sri Chinmoy
Enlightenment maybe, critical thinking, definitely not. a pranamoocher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't believe in these rumors at all. I received full enlightenment from him in NYC in 1975. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- amarnath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > Died Thursday at the age of 72 of a heart attack. > > > . > > > > > > > > my highest respects to a beautiful God-Realized > > being. > > I attended a few of his peace concerts and always > > felt > > His Deep Peace and Love in my heart > > > > a friend of mine, and his wife and daughter, > > were his disciples > > and the personal guidance that they received, > > even while meditating at home, > > was very impressive. > > > > Sri Chinmoy was a wonderful "personal" guru, > > if one resonated with Him. > > > > I read just a few of his books that resonated with > > me; > > they were extremely helpful. > > > > A unique God-Realized life well lived > > only to be admired, respected and loved > > as a beautiful expression of the Self. > > > > Om Shanti, > > anatol > > Yeah, but what about all his dick play? There's a zen > koan for ya to chew on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Again, you are missing my point. As I said, I have drawn some comparisons. I have drawn no conclusions, and I have called no one either good or evil. a feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks for confirming my point. I ask you a blunt question that draws out the implications of what you are saying, and you are at a loss as to how to respond. Precisely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a > > feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? > > It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement > that resembles the Nazis so closely. > > It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, > that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. > > But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other > question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and > Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any > article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often > repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was > repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it > enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It > meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, > and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as > pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had > to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. > Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in > karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed > in detachment and they believed > > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta > run. a > > > > Vaj wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to > establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact > terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in > establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the > way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the > thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real > in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are > not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention > on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the > notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive > evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of > the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death > camps. a > > > > > > > > Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and > Mahesh "yogis" spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas > being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? > > > > > > Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be > by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing > the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I could give you solid documentation for the fact that Trebitsch-Lincoln did in fact take a radio to the Dali Lama. Unfortunately for me, most of my sources are not in English. Where I went to grad school people did dismiss one another's ideas, but not without a better hearing than you've given me. a Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city-plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these "spiritual" movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed > in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a > > Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: > > Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a > > > > Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh "yogis" spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? > > > Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Some of you are a little hasty in drawing conclusions about what I've said so far and even the nature of my mind. So far, all I've done is drawn a few comparisons that life and study have presented me with. I have not drawn any of many possible conclusions that could be drawn from these comparisons. It's a big topic, and a little too early to dismiss it as unworthy of considerations. I've barely laid the groundwork. a feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Research has shown again and again that ordinary folks are very willing to hurt others with electric shock in laboratory settings. Experience has shown again and again that folks do not interfere when they see someone hurt someone else. Add to that absolute devotion to a guru, the brainwashing of minds made susceptible through meditation (the beliefs about not being the doer etc), egos willing to do anything to prove they're enlightened, group isolation, belief in establishing heaven on earth, and doing God's will, and you've got a recipe for what happened in Germany. Call it psychosis or what you will, it happened on a very large scale in Germany. I don't think Germans are any more psychotic than anyone else. We are all subject to social engineering when you get us young enough. a > > jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not > the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are > committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) > death is not real. a > > > > I think in order to commit attrocities, there has to be a fundamental > lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, and I've heard that > called sociopathy. Whatever else the sociopath uses as justification > for hurting and killing others is just rationalizing this basic lack > of empathy for others. > > It doesn't follow at all thnat if we are experiencing a), b) and d) > above, that we are therefore capable of comitting attrocities. As for > c), that sounds psychotic. > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Andrew Cohen Quote of the Week - Serious Spiritual Practice
Some of you might enjoy subscribing to this: If you are having trouble viewing this email, HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/email/admin/WebVersion.asp?ecp=qotw-101507&id=25 1&db=qotw"click here. HYPERLINK "http://www.wie.org/_e/ui/ac/ac-logo.gif"andrewcohen.org Here is the corrected quote. Sorry for the confusion! Quote of the Week Serious Spiritual Practice These days, many people are becoming interested in the relationship between evolution and spirituality. But it is one thing to be capable of intellectually and even experientially appreciating these matters, and quite another to authentically embrace the evolutionary nature of the human experience as oneself. The ability to even recognize life as an evolving process is a fairly recent cognitive leap in our development. And it's another leap altogether to embrace that fact at a soul level, to begin to live in accordance with the recognition that the self and its own experience is part of a process that is developing in and through time. Is the life you are living very personally oriented and self-serving, even while in tellectually and philosophically you may understand that you are an integral part of a vast, interrelated unfolding? Or does the life you are living reflect a knowledge of your responsibility to a greater whole, and a care for the evolution of the process that you are? That is the difference between evolutionary enlightenment and simply having a highly developed intellectual and philosophical perspective. This teaching is all about grasping that you are part of a process in a way that transcends mere cognition. It is about creating a manifest expression of nonduality, and that's a big challenge. Many of us express a profound degree of duality between what we are able to cognitively appreciate and the way in which we embrace the life we are living. But if we are committed to the evolution of consciousness, we need to endeavor to create and cocreate an ever-deepening alignment between our philosophical understanding and our actual relationship to life. That is what I call serious spiritual practice. HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/admin/email/qotw/images/pixel.gif"; Andrew Cohen HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/admin/email/qotw/images/pixel.gif"; HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/admin/email/qotw/images/pixel.gif"; HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/admin/email/qotw/images/pixel.gif"; HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/email/forward.asp?ecp=qotw-101507&emailid=251&em [EMAIL PROTECTED]&db=qotw"Forward the quote to a friend Was this email forwarded to you? HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/quote/?ecp=qotw-101507"Subscribe to the quote of the week now. To visit us: HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/?ecp=qotw-101507"http://www.andrewcohen.org HYPERLINK "http://www.wie.org/?ecp=qotw-101507"http://www.wie.org HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/admin/email/qotw/images/pixel.gif"; Click to HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/email/safeunsubscribe.asp?ecp=qotw-101507&fwd=&s ubscriberID=1460&list=1&[EMAIL PROTECTED]&ext=&edID=17235"unsu bscribe, or to HYPERLINK "http://www.andrewcohen.org/email/SafeManage.asp?ecp=qotw-101507&emailid=251 &[EMAIL PROTECTED]"manage your subscriptions. EnlightenNext, 4 Foxhollow Drive, Lenox, MA 01240, USA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: RIP Sri Chinmoy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 > > > > wrote: > > > > Did > > > > > you ever see him Jim ? > > > > > > > > > Hi, no I didn't-- I just watched the youtube clip. > > > > > > Exactly, so you missed the whole point of these performances. > I've > > > seen two of them live with lots of people simply leaving not > > getting > > > that it was a wonderful darshan of an obviously highly > > enlightenened > > > soul. > > > > > Could be-- I can't say I have any interest in seeing a teacher, and > > sensing their darshan. Darshan is freely available in the > atmosphere > > anyway, at any time, so I take advantage of it that way instead. > Its > > just easier. > > Can't do that sort of stuff, yet. Must use my "horses of the > apostles" even to see Maharishi. More power to you. :-) > What are "horses of the apostles", please?
[FairfieldLife] On line ashram description
Om Namo Narayan - Great Day This is not a chat list but rather an working online Ashram. As such there are some rules and regulations. The following are Musts and not simply suggestions. 1. Post an introduction as per the instructions sent via the automatically generated mail. 2. Post your photo Do not think you are the exception to these rules - you will find rather that your membership will be rapidly terminated. You are quite able to ask the Sadhakas here questions and may ask the Sages or Sat Guru's questions. Where else is there such an open ability to converse with Sat Guru's - Sages - and those who are progressing on this path. Rather than making assumptions about the Sat Guru's etc. ask from those who know them well and dispel the erroneous thoughts and replace them with facts. This One knows of no other such an undertaking to allow practices to be given out and ongoing aides to be given out so freely. Neither is there known of any other place where so many are making such rapid journey's that take one to Liberation. This is not as seen with other Guru's where people are led to believe they are realized with a starting samadhi experience. You will find that those who are Liberated and pronounced Realized have Truly dissolved into Realization and that their lives are a living testament to the authenticity and powerful methodologies developed and given out to those who are sincerely seeking Liberation. While there are no ego games allowed here, there is much laughter along the way. Don't miss this opportunity as it has never been given in history, and this is a vanguard taking place, it is a place where Sages and Sat Guru's emerge; versus like most paths where more confusion arises due to seekers paying their monies then being left to their own devices and fallacies. Perhaps the Sages and Sat Guru's may give a synopsis of their journey's as far as time and the methodologies and paths walked before. What is different here ? This 0-nes path was the long way around and learned the valuable lessons the hard way. It took 30 years from start to completion. Paths walked and initiations taken and some no initiation just living within the tradition for a time. 1. Esoteric Christian Order (Father Blighton) 2. AC Bhaktivedanta - ISKON (no initiation) but lived within this tradition for 2 years fully at the ashram. 3. Karma Kagyu Buddhist - (initiation) name Karma Sonam Wangmo (one of first in the US to recieve the Kala Chakra empowerments) Also was Lama in last life - full remembering of that time and tradition based upon Chod practices. 4. Way of the Mystic - internal self quest for many years. 5. Tantric Wisdom - given by my Sat Guru Rajiv (traditional way One to One) Tantra is not taught in classes. Rajiv broke through the remaining threads. 6. Shavite Tradition Jhuna Acharaya under Guru Naga Baba Sundar Puri (this is oldest and most authentic recognised tradition in india - all Buddhist traditions stem from this) Naga Baba Sundar Puri has taken Maha Samadhi and he watches over the Sadhakas from the other side. He was well known in Haridwar and Rishikesh and in the Himalayan communities, was well respected. As per his admonitions as well as Sat Guru Rajiv's am going forward to carry on giving this Liberating Light to those in the west and to mankind. What is given here - the methodologies come out of this 30 year journey and the Wisdom gained as to what is beneficial versus what is not. Things have been streamlined into the easiest and most profound without all the layered trappings and coverings of dogmatic flair. A Sat Guru should be a reformer Like Christ that came to reform Judaism to take it out of the cold ritualized way, and like Buddha that wanted to reform Brahmanism with it's cast system. May this 0-ne continue in that vein to reform and bring the path back to it's original intent which is simply to take seekers to Liberation in the most expedient manner possible. Now how many are committed to sharing this with humanity ? How many are willing to walk their path of the Mystic to Realization and then be willing to aide other seekers along their way ? Maha Shanti OM 0
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC > documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would > become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising > of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in > meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, > if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society > adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be > following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of > millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place > already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities > being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold "sthapatya-veda" city- > plan which segregates people by castes. > > That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is > factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me > a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago > proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones > sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense > of that word. > So...you are willing to entertain the most facile speculation and rumors regarding Maharishi, but dammit let's put these rumors to rest regarding the Dalai Lama, right now! Sorry Vaj, you don't come off as credible in the least-- Just someone peddling their own "special" brand of enlightenment. Dogmatic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of do.rflex > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 10:51 AM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler > > > > Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation > got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra > conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, > became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a > year he told me, "That meditation saved your life, boy." And after I > became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a > miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. > > I had similar experiences with my parents. My dad was an alcoholic and my > mom was in a mental hospital. TM helped them both tremendously. My mom > actually spent 9 months in Switzerland with MMY and came back quite > transformed. I'm grateful to him for allowing her to come. It was a gift to > me, as he knew very well she wouldn't accomplish much there. I look at the quantity of people like myself in that seemingly 'unique' and 'special' time frame who were 'lost' in the darker side of the hippie daze [days], or just plain 'lost' - and because of TM became positive and hopeful for probably the first time in many of their lives. The life-saving transformation that happened to me must also have been evident in hundreds of thousands of others in those days.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 12:24 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Nabby, you have found a soul mate! Think of the romantic evenings: channelling (sorry, OVERSHADOWING) together, waiting for the latest Maitreya sighting, chasing down Nazi reptilian shape-shifters, talking to lamas in Tibet over the radio...the possibilities are endless...and I'm pretty sure they're both single! :-)))
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RIP Sri Chinmoy
But are SC's enlightened status as experienced by you and his "dick play" as experienced by someone else somehow mutually exclusive? I don't think they are. And also, what do you mean when you say you "received full enlightenment from him"? --- pranamoocher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't believe in these rumors at all. > I received full enlightenment from him in NYC in > 1975. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- amarnath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Died Thursday at the age of 72 of a heart > attack. > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > my highest respects to a beautiful God-Realized > > > being. > > > I attended a few of his peace concerts and > always > > > felt > > > His Deep Peace and Love in my heart > > > > > > a friend of mine, and his wife and daughter, > > > were his disciples > > > and the personal guidance that they received, > > > even while meditating at home, > > > was very impressive. > > > > > > Sri Chinmoy was a wonderful "personal" guru, > > > if one resonated with Him. > > > > > > I read just a few of his books that resonated > with > > > me; > > > they were extremely helpful. > > > > > > A unique God-Realized life well lived > > > only to be admired, respected and loved > > > as a beautiful expression of the Self. > > > > > > Om Shanti, > > > anatol > > > > Yeah, but what about all his dick play? There's a > zen > > koan for ya to chew on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Or go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the > Internet in your pocket: > mail, news, photos & more. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
