[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true: he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught. Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way back in 1993: http://tinyurl.com/34zns4 If you want to get right to that section, click on Read More at the bottom of the post to get to the complete post, then do a text search for Such a reversal and read from there. snip Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't that strike any of you as a bit strange? Never occurred to me until Paul Mason posed the question awhile back, but the answer seemed to me pretty obvious: because Guru Dev was a *religious* leader, and MMY was trying to package TM as secular. Guru Dev was also strong on the behavioral stuff, do's and don'ts, which MMY wanted to deemphasize. (Not talking about TMO rules but yamas and niyamas and devotion to God and so on.) The TMO became a rotted farce of the original intention long ago. My personal curiosity in the TMO history at this point revolves around when MMY reached the tipping point between the original goal and the money/power/ influence goal that ruined the modern day movement. Don't know about the timing of the tipping point or if there ever actually was one. I've never been around him, but from reading *about* him, my sense is that once he got the idea of spiritually regenerating the world back in the early days in India, it took hold of him and never let go. He couldn't say at any point, OK, that's as much as we can do; he had to try to go all the way. Temperamentally, he was brilliant at building a movement up to a certain point, but then he began to flounder and just didn't make the right moves, especially when he began to come up against opposition. I think he genuinely expected that it would all fall into place, as it did in the early years, and he had no sense of what to do when that expansion stopped. (Not that he didn't have all kinds of ideas, but they obviously weren't effective.) Up late tonight? I have read Domash's paper...picked up on it here if I remember correctly. It's interesting, no doubt about it...in fact I devoured it when it when I first came across it for obvious reasons. But it's just Domash's (one of MMY's close followers at the time of his writing) so it's Larry's (understandably) biased view of how it all came to be. Fair enough. Certainly, there are no available writings (Paulcorrect me if you have some revelations to share here) indicating that Guru Dev taught anything we would recognize as TM. It's fascinating, no doubt, but for me the real item of interest is what Guru Dev would have said about the way MMY organized and conducted his movement going right back to 1955. From everything I've read (and I've read all there is to read about Guru Dev in English) he would have been aghast at MMY's methods for appealing to the rich and famous for wealth and power. Guru Dev is dead and gone so all we can do is speculate. My opinion is that he would be appalled.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true: he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught. Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way back in 1993: http://tinyurl.com/34zns4 If you want to get right to that section, click on Read More at the bottom of the post to get to the complete post, then do a text search for Such a reversal and read from there. snip Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't that strike any of you as a bit strange? Never occurred to me until Paul Mason posed the question awhile back, but the answer seemed to me pretty obvious: because Guru Dev was a *religious* leader, and MMY was trying to package TM as secular. Guru Dev was also strong on the behavioral stuff, do's and don'ts, which MMY wanted to deemphasize. (Not talking about TMO rules but yamas and niyamas and devotion to God and so on.) The TMO became a rotted farce of the original intention long ago. My personal curiosity in the TMO history at this point revolves around when MMY reached the tipping point between the original goal and the money/power/ influence goal that ruined the modern day movement. Don't know about the timing of the tipping point or if there ever actually was one. I've never been around him, but from reading *about* him, my sense is that once he got the idea of spiritually regenerating the world back in the early days in India, it took hold of him and never let go. He couldn't say at any point, OK, that's as much as we can do; he had to try to go all the way. Temperamentally, he was brilliant at building a movement up to a certain point, but then he began to flounder and just didn't make the right moves, especially when he began to come up against opposition. I think he genuinely expected that it would all fall into place, as it did in the early years, and he had no sense of what to do when that expansion stopped. (Not that he didn't have all kinds of ideas, but they obviously weren't effective.) BTW, I may agree with parts of this last paragraph. Personally I think he began to flounder when the paranoia that seems to strike all religious megalomaniacs sooner or later (see Scientology for a textbook case) set in. But it could have been a whole lot sooner, as in 1955. This is the time I'm fascinated by. I'd love to know what was going on in his head at this time.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
Sorry, the divorce is final...the money is gone...but it's not about money... Don't ya git it. It's not about $$$... It's about creating an atomosphere of love, or whatever you want to call it... People have the money. It's not about the money. Repeat after me: 'It's not about the money!' R.g. It's that atmosphere of good feeling which used to be there in the early days that has gone missing. The money is kind of irrelevant. In accounting terms goodwill is part of the capital of a business. You take the value of the business as a going concern, and the value of the tangible assets and the difference is the value of the intangible assets. In the late 60s and early 70s the balance sheet of the TMO would have shown a massive element of goodwill, now it would show an even bigger element of negative goodwill. The value of the tangible assets of the movement dwarf the value of the business as a going concern, the difference being negative goodwill. In effect all that loving feeling from the early days has been run down and converted into cash and land leaving little in the way of good feeling. The atmosphere of good feeling, i.e. goodwill towards the TMO and its objectives has been run down and converted into cash and stashed away in land deeds and bank vaults. You can't create an atmosphere of love if people are constantly being hit on for cash and if anyone who dissents is banned for life. The TMO has dug itself into a deep hole, it has to stop digging. An important step would be to stop hitting on people for cash all the time. The donations are a kind of fantasy goodwill that take the place of genuine goodwill. If the donations were to dry up then the TMO would have to start behaving more responsibly towards people. The only use of hunting down the money is to shine a light on hidden things so that people can know what the real story is. If the people at the top are intent on keeping the real story hidden that should be an incentive to find it out. Access to the truth can only help get people out of their delusional thinking and rebuilding goodwill can't happen unless delusional thinking is abandoned. It is the belief that physical assets in the form of land and money can keep the TMO alive which allows people at the top to trample on people at the bottom because they believe that goodwill is not important.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
The Shiva/Varma clan had been doing this for longer than you or I. You cannot win against them. That money is their's, and you won't get it back... So, getting stuck on how to get the money back, will keep you trapped in that mode, and prevent you from doing anything else, constructive. Besides, it would be easier to get the money from someone like Bill Gates...as he is more of a 'Hippie'... R.G. I think it's a good thing that most of the money has gone missing in action. Finding out where it went isn't about getting it back, it's about helping people to wake up and get out of the the phase transition is due next week, send us more money for project X cycle. There isn't going to be a phase transition funded by cash.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: Sorry, the divorce is final...the money is gone...but it's not about money... Don't ya git it. It's not about $$$... It's about creating an atomosphere of love, or whatever you want to call it... People have the money. It's not about the money. Repeat after me: 'It's not about the money!' R.g. It's that atmosphere of good feeling which used to be there in the early days that has gone missing. The money is kind of irrelevant. In accounting terms goodwill is part of the capital of a business. You take the value of the business as a going concern, and the value of the tangible assets and the difference is the value of the intangible assets. In the late 60s and early 70s the balance sheet of the TMO would have shown a massive element of goodwill, now it would show an even bigger element of negative goodwill. The value of the tangible assets of the movement dwarf the value of the business as a going concern, the difference being negative goodwill. In effect all that loving feeling from the early days has been run down and converted into cash and land leaving little in the way of good feeling. The atmosphere of good feeling, i.e. goodwill towards the TMO and its objectives has been run down and converted into cash and stashed away in land deeds and bank vaults. You can't create an atmosphere of love if people are constantly being hit on for cash and if anyone who dissents is banned for life. The TMO has dug itself into a deep hole, it has to stop digging. An important step would be to stop hitting on people for cash all the time. The donations are a kind of fantasy goodwill that take the place of genuine goodwill. If the donations were to dry up then the TMO would have to start behaving more responsibly towards people. The only use of hunting down the money is to shine a light on hidden things so that people can know what the real story is. If the people at the top are intent on keeping the real story hidden that should be an incentive to find it out. Access to the truth can only help get people out of their delusional thinking and rebuilding goodwill can't happen unless delusional thinking is abandoned. It is the belief that physical assets in the form of land and money can keep the TMO alive which allows people at the top to trample on people at the bottom because they believe that goodwill is not important. Sounds like the same thing hit the financial markets worldwide, like a mirror image of what you are describing... Like all the good will of the United States of America, was turned into real estate deals, that became 'toxic assets'... At the same time, we were more and more divided, detatched from the truth, brainwashed by TV... And so on... The TMO is a reflection of the emptiness that our culture had become... There is no need anymore of anything to provide a 'Phase Transition... Because you see, we are in the middle of the most intense phase transition that anyone can remember. Just go with the flow...not the flow of money or intellect... But the flow of the Heart... That is all you need do... All the rest will unfold naturally as the Master promised. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:15 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Let's not forget that he also gave his ultimate teachings on enlightenment...for a cool MILLION. This includes some on this list. From those who've talked about what they received, it was just BS. Little new, certainly nothing enlightening. For those who were very attached to his former personality and earlier memories, it was a chance to buy video darshan, as he sequestered himself a way, like a Hindu Howard Hughes. Cha ching. He was the archetypal megalomaniacal, materialistic and Asuriac guru of our time. And he died likely from complications from his sweetness addiction and his own diabetes, in a mansion designed to resemble a king's palace. A tacky king's palace. What's most interesting to me is the incredible, monumental effort his followers go to to cover for him and hide his avaricious ambitions. You say tomato, I say tomato. L. That might be the most lame response I can ever remember you posting Lawson. Give me a moment, and I'll try to do better... Sir, your nose is. . .hmm. . .it is. . .very big! L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:36 PM, sparaig wrote: You say tomato, I say tomato. You say Ayurvedic, non-GMO, Maharishi organic, scientifically-proven Vedic tomato, I say tomato. ;-) But does it smell as sweet? [cyrano du bergerac reference goes here] Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: Do you think the reports about millions going to his personal family members in India and hidden accounts are all made up? I think it's pretty well established as far as we can tell. But I don't think the motivation was ever let's screw these dumbass westerners for all the cash we can and stash it away for the family. It was more likely to be Maharishi thinking that he wanted to create some solid business foundations which would yield an income to support pundit groups. So he gave the money to his family to invest, and they, being human beings, would have looked at the cash and thought mmm, uncle is giving us untraceble cash to spend on investments, well as no one is looking and the audit trail has been cleaned, a few million wouldn't go missing and it sort of got out of hand from then on. I know that after Maharishi died there was an attempt to freeze various bank accounts and get control of the money back from the family. Trouble is the money is the least of concerns, it's the human assets that count and the TMO has been and still is very careless with its human assets. Quite plausible. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: I really have nothing against the technique itself, never have. I still practice TM every morning for 1/2 hour. I do it for one reason and one reason only. It feels good. I like how I feel afterwards when I read the paper, listen to Mahler and have a tall latte. If it ever feels bad I'll stop. No more something good is happening for me. If it feels good, it is good (for me anyway.) That's exactly how I feel too (but please turn down the Mahler!) I've been mildly curious about other practices through the years, but never enough to jump back in again and devote myself to a new spiritual bus. [snip] I would love to know what Guru Dev would have to say about how MMY handled his movement. I believe he would have been absolutely appalled at what MMY did in his name! Based on everything we know about Guru Dev, he would have taken a VERY dim view of hustling the wealthy for money in the name of spirituality. I imagine him wanting to kick Mahesh's ass all the way back to the cave I'm not with you there. I find it odd that many of the same folks here who have left-leaning sympathies also get very precious about the vulnerable Rich getting bad value for their donations to the TMO. A British leftie once famously said that he wanted to *tax the rich until the pips squeaked. Where's your socialist cojones? Can you imagine a parallel world in which MMY would have got a better reception on returning to his master e.g. Very well done. I know you only gave a taste of bliss to 500 or so villagers nearby - but I'm SO relieved you absolutely refused to accept money to bring bliss to the masses. Pity that chap geezerfreak never got the gift. We had such high hopes for him in his next incarnation, but that'll have to wait now. Still, come sit by me on this cloud? Or could it be that he did NOT think that money was the root of all evil, but just that attachment to money was the sin? Money is just money. And could it be that MMY might say Master, I've done my time. Next time, please just ask me to stay in a cave rather than try to save the world. Can't we leave that to Bono?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 12:17 AM, geezerfreak wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Perhaps Paul's bio on Guru Dev will shed light but nothing I've seen indicates that Guru Dev was teaching this technique using these bija mantras. Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't that strike any of you as a bit strange? Manasika-japa, mental use of bija or dharani mantras is very old and has been in continuous use for thousands of years.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
and manasika japa is not TM, I can do manasika japa anywhere like on the subway and do, I would never want to do TM in those situations , its something very subtle and delicate. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 12:17 AM, geezerfreak wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Perhaps Paul's bio on Guru Dev will shed light but nothing I've seen indicates that Guru Dev was teaching this technique using these bija mantras. Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't that strike any of you as a bit strange? Manasika-japa, mental use of bija or dharani mantras is very old and has been in continuous use for thousands of years.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 9:49 AM, shukra69 wrote: and manasika japa is not TM, I can do manasika japa anywhere like on the subway and do, I would never want to do TM in those situations , its something very subtle and delicate. Yes, TM is a form of manasika-japa. It's a ubiquitous and old form of meditation, there's nothing new about it, accept perhaps that in TM people tend to never get beyond the most superficial levels, which I explained the reason for this in another post. Consequently old thought patterns, remain and are strengthened. You can also do TM on the subway. You should not attempt to do TM while driving or operating heavy machinery.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true: he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught. Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way back in 1993: http://tinyurl.com/34zns4 If you want to get right to that section, click on Read More at the bottom of the post to get to the complete post, then do a text search for Such a reversal and read from there. snip Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't that strike any of you as a bit strange? Never occurred to me until Paul Mason posed the question awhile back, but the answer seemed to me pretty obvious: because Guru Dev was a *religious* leader, and MMY was trying to package TM as secular. Guru Dev was also strong on the behavioral stuff, do's and don'ts, which MMY wanted to deemphasize. (Not talking about TMO rules but yamas and niyamas and devotion to God and so on.) The TMO became a rotted farce of the original intention long ago. My personal curiosity in the TMO history at this point revolves around when MMY reached the tipping point between the original goal and the money/power/ influence goal that ruined the modern day movement. Don't know about the timing of the tipping point or if there ever actually was one. I've never been around him, but from reading *about* him, my sense is that once he got the idea of spiritually regenerating the world back in the early days in India, it took hold of him and never let go. He couldn't say at any point, OK, that's as much as we can do; he had to try to go all the way. Temperamentally, he was brilliant at building a movement up to a certain point, but then he began to flounder and just didn't make the right moves, especially when he began to come up against opposition. I think he genuinely expected that it would all fall into place, as it did in the early years, and he had no sense of what to do when that expansion stopped. (Not that he didn't have all kinds of ideas, but they obviously weren't effective.) BTW, I may agree with parts of this last paragraph. Personally I think he began to flounder when the paranoia that seems to strike all religious megalomaniacs sooner or later (see Scientology for a textbook case) set in. But it could have been a whole lot sooner, as in 1955. This is the time I'm fascinated by. I'd love to know what was going on in his head at this time. While I know nut'in about nut'in, perhaps that does not disqualify me from venturing into this conversation (to which a number of people have contributed.) Take the basic model. 1) Maharishi over time became quite savvy and attuned to the way GD thought about things an how he liked things done. Like one of us knows how our spouse or SigO likes their coffee and abhors the color pink. Or the nuances in the ways our boss or peers like a project done. This is not magic. A pretty comprehensive appreciation could have been gained by 24/7 devotional focussed attention to anther over 13 years. 2) Over Maharishi's life, GD was a huge role model, mentor and object of devotion for Maharishi. The key key in Maharishi's life was to please GD. You can accept or reject either of these points. If you accept both (at least as reasonable and plausible) then its hard to buy a lot of this GD would have been upset and dismayed with MMY sort of patter. If you reject 1 or 2 above, then provide a plausible counter story with some evidence. Frankly I don't see it, but it may be there. As far a Maharishi teaching something different than GD -- well, to quote a recent poster, Duh!. I thought the whole point of Maharishi's focus was that the tradition was focused on monks -- and had marvelous stuff for them. And to a degree for non-monk devotees -- those hanging out around the temple -- going to see the Shankacharaya and all. But that the knowledge of the tradition had been totally hosed for the normal out on the street of life regular guy. GD was not (much) in a position to provide much to them (though I understand he darshaned the heck out of any one
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. Even if #2 and #3 were in place, I am not as sure as you are that loads of people would come on down if the price was right. Over a 15-year period of teaching TM when people were still coming to introductory talks in high numbers, my belief is that over 99% of the people I taught stopped TM within a year (the 1% effect...?). When these people were/are asked why they stopped TM, their answer was/is simple: they did not get the advertised effects from the practice of TM. While the huge dropout rate is never talked about by the TMO (of course), it is something that decreases the size of the I see it benefits my friend, so I will do it effect. Science Except for Jerry Seinfeld, Howard Stern, Laura Dern, and who knows how many other silent successful meditators who like it, do it, don't make a fuss about it. But it brings up the idea some have thrown out there -- that once initiated, the seed keeps growing whether we do the practice or not. I have felt that in times I have lapsed.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:02 AM, grate.swan wrote: You can accept or reject either of these points. If you accept both (at least as reasonable and plausible) then its hard to buy a lot of this GD would have been upset and dismayed with MMY sort of patter. It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
Didnt say you can't do TM on the subway , just that I wouldn't want to , and your not understanding the difference between TM and other manasika japa just speaks about your own lack of understanding of TM. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 9:49 AM, shukra69 wrote: and manasika japa is not TM, I can do manasika japa anywhere like on the subway and do, I would never want to do TM in those situations , its something very subtle and delicate. Yes, TM is a form of manasika-japa. It's a ubiquitous and old form of meditation, there's nothing new about it, accept perhaps that in TM people tend to never get beyond the most superficial levels, which I explained the reason for this in another post. Consequently old thought patterns, remain and are strengthened. You can also do TM on the subway. You should not attempt to do TM while driving or operating heavy machinery.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:02 AM, grate.swan wrote: You can accept or reject either of these points. If you accept both (at least as reasonable and plausible) then its hard to buy a lot of this GD would have been upset and dismayed with MMY sort of patter. It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed. And if Maharishi sold Jytor Math GD would be PO'ed too I suppose. But there is as much substance to that as some single unattributed quote about what GD said to Maharishi. If Paul Mason can substantiate such a quote, it might have some interest. However, a single unattributable quote that counters a huge amount of counter evidence (see basic model points 1 and 2) is not the sort of stuff I invest heavily in. Your mileage may vary.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true: he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught. Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way back in 1993: http://tinyurl.com/34zns4 If you want to get right to that section, click on Read More at the bottom of the post to get to the complete post, then do a text search for Such a reversal and read from there. snip Up late tonight? I have read Domash's paper...picked up on it here if I remember correctly. Yes, I posted about it here in January 2007. It's interesting, no doubt about it...in fact I devoured it when it when I first came across it for obvious reasons. But it's just Domash's (one of MMY's close followers at the time of his writing) so it's Larry's (understandably) biased view of how it all came to be. Fair enough. I think it's safe to assume it was MMY-approved. The Collected Papers series, especially the first volume, was a HUGE deal at the time for the TMO, a major bid for the attention and respect of the scientific community. It's vanishingly unlikely that MMY wasn't heavily involved in the content of the Domash essay. Regardless of its accuracy, it said what MMY wanted it to say. What's interesting to me is that not all that many TMers, current or former, know about it, in my experience. The notion that MMY got the technique from Guru Dev, or at least that he *claimed* to have gotten it from Guru Dev, is pervasive (as is the story that Guru Dev gave MMY his mission to impart Guru Dev's teachings to the world--in some versions, in a dream or vision). Apparently Charlie Lutes promoted the idea that Guru Dev gave MMY the technique, according to a post from suziesuzie in that same 2007 thread: If you read the papers by Charles Lutes (the book that was supposed to have been written but was never published. Someone posted it on this group), he claims Guru Dev did not teach TM to his followers but a form of Sri Vidya, Mother Divine worship. Lutes claims that before Guru Dev died he entrusted MMY with a teaching of TM as MMY teaches it today, mantras, etc. Lutes also claimes that the TM techniques was a amethod that had been known by Guru Dev but was held back until GD gave it to MMY. That's clearly contradicted by the essay. As I pointed out at the time: If you think about it for a moment, both stories have their advantages and disadvantages. For MMY to say Guru Dev gave him the TM technique would put Guru Dev's enormous spiritual prestige behind it. But if the technique had failings, that would call Guru Dev's knowledge in question. For MMY to say he himself developed the technique would give *him* prestige, but any failings would be blamed on him. (I do recall, although I can't locate the post, that someone here quoted one of MMY's talks in which he *did* seem to say he'd gotten the technique from Guru Dev, but the wording was a bit ambiguous.) snip It's fascinating, no doubt, but for me the real item of interest is what Guru Dev would have said about the way MMY organized and conducted his movement going right back to 1955. From everything I've read (and I've read all there is to read about Guru Dev in English) he would have been aghast at MMY's methods for appealing to the rich and famous for wealth and power. Guru Dev is dead and gone so all we can do is speculate. My opinion is that he would be appalled. Could well be. Folks are always blaming MMY for being egotistical because he put his name on everything TM-ish, but it seems to me that *could* have been because he didn't want anything he was doing to reflect badly on Guru Dev--or at least was part of the reason. If so, it might indicate he knew Guru Dev wouldn't have approved. (grate.swan has just made some typically highly cogent speculations to the contrary, however.) In any case, given the premise that TM was a revival of a technique that had been lost, the story Domash tells is, IMHO, a pretty plausible explanation, on its own terms, for the process by which MMY might have rediscovered it (again, whether or not it's historically accurate). And yes, I'm well aware that bija mantra meditation has been taught
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:27 AM, grate.swan wrote: It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed. And if Maharishi sold Jytor Math GD would be PO'ed too I suppose. But there is as much substance to that as some single unattributed quote about what GD said to Maharishi. If Paul Mason can substantiate such a quote, it might have some interest. However, a single unattributable quote that counters a huge amount of counter evidence (see basic model points 1 and 2) is not the sort of stuff I invest heavily in. Your mileage may vary. IIRC it was one of the Shankaracharyas who said it, a fellow student of SBS. Perhaps Paul or someone who's still hot on these topics can give the quote. Earl Kaplan repeats the basic gist of it in his letter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M compost...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I really have nothing against the technique itself, never have. I still practice TM every morning for 1/2 hour. I do it for one reason and one reason only. It feels good. I like how I feel afterwards when I read the paper, listen to Mahler and have a tall latte. If it ever feels bad I'll stop. No more something good is happening for me. If it feels good, it is good (for me anyway.) That's exactly how I feel too (but please turn down the Mahler!) I've been mildly curious about other practices through the years, but never enough to jump back in again and devote myself to a new spiritual bus. [snip] I would love to know what Guru Dev would have to say about how MMY handled his movement. I believe he would have been absolutely appalled at what MMY did in his name! Based on everything we know about Guru Dev, he would have taken a VERY dim view of hustling the wealthy for money in the name of spirituality. I imagine him wanting to kick Mahesh's ass all the way back to the cave I'm not with you there. I find it odd that many of the same folks here who have left-leaning sympathies also get very precious about the vulnerable Rich getting bad value for their donations to the TMO. A British leftie once famously said that he wanted to *tax the rich until the pips squeaked. Where's your socialist cojones? Can you imagine a parallel world in which MMY would have got a better reception on returning to his master e.g. Very well done. I know you only gave a taste of bliss to 500 or so villagers nearby - but I'm SO relieved you absolutely refused to accept money to bring bliss to the masses. Pity that chap geezerfreak never got the gift. We had such high hopes for him in his next incarnation, but that'll have to wait now. Still, come sit by me on this cloud? Or could it be that he did NOT think that money was the root of all evil, but just that attachment to money was the sin? Money is just money. And could it be that MMY might say Master, I've done my time. Next time, please just ask me to stay in a cave rather than try to save the world. Can't we leave that to Bono? Yep, it could be. All we can do here is state our opinions based on the observations and input we have received so far in life. Mine tell me that GD would have paddled Mahesh's hiny for what he has done.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:27 AM, grate.swan wrote: It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed. And if Maharishi sold Jytor Math GD would be PO'ed too I suppose. But there is as much substance to that as some single unattributed quote about what GD said to Maharishi. If Paul Mason can substantiate such a quote, it might have some interest. However, a single unattributable quote that counters a huge amount of counter evidence (see basic model points 1 and 2) is not the sort of stuff I invest heavily in. Your mileage may vary. IIRC it was one of the Shankaracharyas who said it, a fellow student of SBS. Perhaps Paul or someone who's still hot on these topics can give the quote. Earl Kaplan repeats the basic gist of it in his letter. What another shankaracharaya said doesn't do much for me. First, its clear (to me) the Maharishi had many people doing things that other peers were not aware of. Sometimes asking 4 people to investigate the same thing but don't tell anyone but me. And sometimes, someone was off in the hinterlands doing some odd thing that was outside the normal scope of the buzz around Maharishi. If Mahrishi's mind was attuned to GD, or at a minimum GD was a key mentor to him, picking up that many sources, many outreaches method from GD seems almost a given (to me). Many modern executives work in the same fashion. That style has its benefits. Thus, that all the brothers around GD did not know completely what the others were doing or had been told seems almost a given. And that some brothers may have picked up snippets but not the whole thing is not surprising. Did GD tell Maharish to go to a cave and meditate: a) his entire life, b) a few years [which Maharishi did as I recall], c) take a moth or too and do this thing, d) unspecified. I can see all sorts of statements to the effect go to a cave and meditate that Maharishi fulfilled and his subsequent activities did not violate that. And I have little confidence that a brother would have had the full instructions that were given to Maharishi. And gurus play tricks -- particularly one brother against another. GD's guru banished him as a stupid boy told him to go off to a cave and rot so to speak. All the while, the guru had given GD specific instructions -- from the guru to his most prized student. And the facade was all to keep the other brothers frm getting jealous and stirred off their own sadhanas. Another trick -- the GD directive Hurry, take this note to the yogi on the top of the mountain 48 hours from here. RUN RUN All Haste! And while charging up the mountain Maharishi stumbled and the note (magically :)) came open, revealing the note saying in effect 'oh pardons swami ji for disturbing you, but this poor yogi student needed to get some 'fresh air' and heavy exercise as part of his sadhana, so please just read and smile and give some sort of answer that he can run back with. Your buddy, GD And the possibility that some shankaracharayas dis each other, have petty squabbles, are jealous, etc, is not a huge stretch.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 28, 2009, at 9:59 PM, guyfawkes91 wrote: It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of coherence in collective consciousness. How condescending--that's exactly what turns people off. So the reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. And in the face of zero evidence that any of those things have any effect, it's another definition of insanity. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new goodwill will be generated after the phase transition. Which will never come, because conveniently there will never be enough coherence--Catch 22. What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. It's been that way for decades. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. Who's we?? My reality is that except for a few spurts, it's never been very widespread and most people quit within a few weeks for whatever reasons. The idiocy is only the icing on the cake. TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. I've never seen this phenomenon, of people evangelizing TM. And except for a few family members of meditators, I've never seen anyone else start because of others, except in the case of the Merv wave. The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting customers And this is a fact, that they have no problem attracting customers? How many, exactly? is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here. At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. You're assuming most people know about this nonsense-- they don't. The reason nobody is starting TM is because its time has come and gone--period. IF another big wave starts because of Lynch or whomever I'll take it all back. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through. Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that idea will be wearing a bit thin. Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve what he wanted in this generation wasn't lack of coherence, but simple stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is. Doubtful. The whole reason they went off the deep end is to have a good excuse as to why it's not brighter, when it became obvious its bright days were over. At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to get to grips with. All those buildings and property assets that Maharishi put his faith in will be seen as worthless when there's no one to fill them or make use of them. It will take time, but
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:46 AM, geezerfreak wrote: Yep, it could be. All we can do here is state our opinions based on the observations and input we have received so far in life. Mine tell me that GD would have paddled Mahesh's hiny for what he has done. As a good touchstone you'd have to look no further than Swami Karpatri, the guy who was offered the Shank. before SBS and a primary student of SBS. Like his guru SBS, Karpatri was also an expert in samaya Sri Vidya. Karpatri, also like SBS, maintained very strict caste rules. For example western students of Karpatri's had to sit in the back of the room with the untouchables. So since Mahesh was not a Brahmin, he'd never been allowed to teach. Karpatri was actually a founder of the fundie right-wing political party the Ram Rajya Parishad, which wanted to take India back to a Vedic lifestyle, for all humanity.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true: he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught. Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way back in 1993: http://tinyurl.com/34zns4 If you want to get right to that section, click on Read More at the bottom of the post to get to the complete post, then do a text search for Such a reversal and read from there. snip Up late tonight? I have read Domash's paper...picked up on it here if I remember correctly. Yes, I posted about it here in January 2007. It's interesting, no doubt about it...in fact I devoured it when it when I first came across it for obvious reasons. But it's just Domash's (one of MMY's close followers at the time of his writing) so it's Larry's (understandably) biased view of how it all came to be. Fair enough. I think it's safe to assume it was MMY-approved. The Collected Papers series, especially the first volume, was a HUGE deal at the time for the TMO, a major bid for the attention and respect of the scientific community. It's vanishingly unlikely that MMY wasn't heavily involved in the content of the Domash essay. Regardless of its accuracy, it said what MMY wanted it to say. What's interesting to me is that not all that many TMers, current or former, know about it, in my experience. The notion that MMY got the technique from Guru Dev, or at least that he *claimed* to have gotten it from Guru Dev, is pervasive (as is the story that Guru Dev gave MMY his mission to impart Guru Dev's teachings to the world--in some versions, in a dream or vision). Apparently Charlie Lutes promoted the idea that Guru Dev gave MMY the technique, according to a post from suziesuzie in that same 2007 thread: If you read the papers by Charles Lutes (the book that was supposed to have been written but was never published. Someone posted it on this group), he claims Guru Dev did not teach TM to his followers but a form of Sri Vidya, Mother Divine worship. Lutes claims that before Guru Dev died he entrusted MMY with a teaching of TM as MMY teaches it today, mantras, etc. Lutes also claimes that the TM techniques was a amethod that had been known by Guru Dev but was held back until GD gave it to MMY. That's clearly contradicted by the essay. As I pointed out at the time: If you think about it for a moment, both stories have their advantages and disadvantages. For MMY to say Guru Dev gave him the TM technique would put Guru Dev's enormous spiritual prestige behind it. But if the technique had failings, that would call Guru Dev's knowledge in question. For MMY to say he himself developed the technique would give *him* prestige, but any failings would be blamed on him. (I do recall, although I can't locate the post, that someone here quoted one of MMY's talks in which he *did* seem to say he'd gotten the technique from Guru Dev, but the wording was a bit ambiguous.) snip It's fascinating, no doubt, but for me the real item of interest is what Guru Dev would have said about the way MMY organized and conducted his movement going right back to 1955. From everything I've read (and I've read all there is to read about Guru Dev in English) he would have been aghast at MMY's methods for appealing to the rich and famous for wealth and power. Guru Dev is dead and gone so all we can do is speculate. My opinion is that he would be appalled. Could well be. Folks are always blaming MMY for being egotistical because he put his name on everything TM-ish, but it seems to me that *could* have been because he didn't want anything he was doing to reflect badly on Guru Dev--or at least was part of the reason. If so, it might indicate he knew Guru Dev wouldn't have approved. (grate.swan has just made some typically highly cogent speculations to the contrary, however.) In any case, given the premise that TM was a revival of a technique that had been lost, the story Domash tells is, IMHO, a pretty plausible explanation, on its own
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 12:00 AM, geezerfreak wrote: Robert, I get what you are saying but I do NOT want the money back. (I'm sure there are people who do however.) No, that's not my point at all. I do--I want it all back, every cent. And I want it all to go to the teachers who taught for years and ended up with broken health as well as dreams. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:46 AM, geezerfreak wrote: Yep, it could be. All we can do here is state our opinions based on the observations and input we have received so far in life. Mine tell me that GD would have paddled Mahesh's hiny for what he has done. As a good touchstone you'd have to look no further than Swami Karpatri, the guy who was offered the Shank. before SBS and a primary student of SBS. Like his guru SBS, Karpatri was also an expert in samaya Sri Vidya. Karpatri, also like SBS, maintained very strict caste rules. For example western students of Karpatri's had to sit in the back of the room with the untouchables. So since Mahesh was not a Brahmin, he'd never been allowed to teach. Karpatri was actually a founder of the fundie right-wing political party the Ram Rajya Parishad, which wanted to take India back to a Vedic lifestyle, for all humanity. That's funny that your view of GD -- or any master of the tradition -- or any enlightenment tradition - is so one dimensional. he did this, ergo he could have thought or done nothing else. Doesn't speak well for the vastness of the Knowledge of the tradition if that's the case. That GD upheld the traditional monk view of the tradition AND saw whole other sets of possibilities and extensions of the knowledge for many other walks of life -- is neither surprising nor amazing to me. That it appears to be a huge stretch for so for many here is -- well- amazing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:27 AM, grate.swan wrote: It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed. And if Maharishi sold Jytor Math GD would be PO'ed too I suppose. But there is as much substance to that as some single unattributed quote about what GD said to Maharishi. If Paul Mason can substantiate such a quote, it might have some interest. However, a single unattributable quote that counters a huge amount of counter evidence (see basic model points 1 and 2) is not the sort of stuff I invest heavily in. Your mileage may vary. IIRC it was one of the Shankaracharyas who said it, a fellow student of SBS. Perhaps Paul or someone who's still hot on these topics can give the quote. Earl Kaplan repeats the basic gist of it in his letter. What another shankaracharaya said doesn't do much for me. First, its clear (to me) the Maharishi had many people doing things that other peers were not aware of. Sometimes asking 4 people to investigate the same thing but don't tell anyone but me. And sometimes, someone was off in the hinterlands doing some odd thing that was outside the normal scope of the buzz around Maharishi. If Mahrishi's mind was attuned to GD, or at a minimum GD was a key mentor to him, picking up that many sources, many outreaches method from GD seems almost a given (to me). Many modern executives work in the same fashion. That style has its benefits. Thus, that all the brothers around GD did not know completely what the others were doing or had been told seems almost a given. And that some brothers may have picked up snippets but not the whole thing is not surprising. Did GD tell Maharish to go to a cave and meditate: a) his entire life, b) a few years [which Maharishi did as I recall], c) take a moth or too and do this thing, d) unspecified. I can see all sorts of statements to the effect go to a cave and meditate that Maharishi fulfilled and his subsequent activities did not violate that. And I have little confidence that a brother would have had the full instructions that were given to Maharishi. And gurus play tricks -- particularly one brother against another. GD's guru banished him as a stupid boy told him to go off to a cave and rot so to speak. All the while, the guru had given GD specific instructions -- from the guru to his most prized student. And the facade was all to keep the other brothers frm getting jealous and stirred off their own sadhanas. Another trick -- the GD directive Hurry, take this note to the yogi on the top of the mountain 48 hours from here. RUN RUN All Haste! And while charging up the mountain Maharishi stumbled and the note (magically :)) came open, revealing the note saying in effect 'oh pardons swami ji for disturbing you, but this poor yogi student needed to get some 'fresh air' and heavy exercise as part of his sadhana, so please just read and smile and give some sort of answer that he can run back with. Your buddy, GD And the possibility that some shankaracharayas dis each other, have petty squabbles, are jealous, etc, is not a huge stretch. The same can be said for some Maharishis.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:27 AM, grate.swan wrote: It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed. And if Maharishi sold Jytor Math GD would be PO'ed too I suppose. But there is as much substance to that as some single unattributed quote about what GD said to Maharishi. If Paul Mason can substantiate such a quote, it might have some interest. However, a single unattributable quote that counters a huge amount of counter evidence (see basic model points 1 and 2) is not the sort of stuff I invest heavily in. Your mileage may vary. IIRC it was one of the Shankaracharyas who said it, a fellow student of SBS. Perhaps Paul or someone who's still hot on these topics can give the quote. Earl Kaplan repeats the basic gist of it in his letter. What another shankaracharaya said doesn't do much for me. First, its clear (to me) the Maharishi had many people doing things that other peers were not aware of. Sometimes asking 4 people to investigate the same thing but don't tell anyone but me. And sometimes, someone was off in the hinterlands doing some odd thing that was outside the normal scope of the buzz around Maharishi. If Mahrishi's mind was attuned to GD, or at a minimum GD was a key mentor to him, picking up that many sources, many outreaches method from GD seems almost a given (to me). Many modern executives work in the same fashion. That style has its benefits. Thus, that all the brothers around GD did not know completely what the others were doing or had been told seems almost a given. And that some brothers may have picked up snippets but not the whole thing is not surprising. Did GD tell Maharish to go to a cave and meditate: a) his entire life, b) a few years [which Maharishi did as I recall], c) take a moth or too and do this thing, d) unspecified. I can see all sorts of statements to the effect go to a cave and meditate that Maharishi fulfilled and his subsequent activities did not violate that. And I have little confidence that a brother would have had the full instructions that were given to Maharishi. And gurus play tricks -- particularly one brother against another. GD's guru banished him as a stupid boy told him to go off to a cave and rot so to speak. All the while, the guru had given GD specific instructions -- from the guru to his most prized student. And the facade was all to keep the other brothers frm getting jealous and stirred off their own sadhanas. Another trick -- the GD directive Hurry, take this note to the yogi on the top of the mountain 48 hours from here. RUN RUN All Haste! And while charging up the mountain Maharishi stumbled and the note (magically :)) came open, revealing the note saying in effect 'oh pardons swami ji for disturbing you, but this poor yogi student needed to get some 'fresh air' and heavy exercise as part of his sadhana, so please just read and smile and give some sort of answer that he can run back with. Your buddy, GD And the possibility that some shankaracharayas dis each other, have petty squabbles, are jealous, etc, is not a huge stretch. The same can be said for some Maharishis. Well, that Maharishi had a boatload of funny quirks is not a revelation. And that he probably dis'ed (out of proportion) some shankaracharayas is not outside plausibility, IMO. However, I have trouble building the plausible counter story to the basic two-point model I suggested. Lets say it was all a scam, all hucksterism and Maharishi was just out for La Dolce Vita. His 24/7 workstyle and uphill struggle simply is not compatible with that, IMO. And lets reject that Maharishi knew much about anything of GD's wishes, style of thinking, perspective, etc. And was not the least bit devoted to GD. So Maharishi goes out and is more fixated and works harder than any executive or entrepreneur I have seen. All on his own initiative and insights. Wow, thats pretty impressive. But for what? Life in Vldroop was THAT cool? Did you want to spend your life there?
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
Vaj wrote: It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed. According to my sources: Mahesh went to the mountains and meditated, following Guru Dev's orders. But, Guru Dev also gave Mahesh orders to perfect a simple system of meditation that was transcendental, and then to spiritually regenerate the entire world. So, Mahesh made some money and spread the word. Let it never be said that Mahesh did not know how to organize a yoga camp! Read more: The Clerk of Jyotirmath: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/clerk.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. Even if #2 and #3 were in place, I am not as sure as you are that loads of people would come on down if the price was right. Over a 15-year period of teaching TM when people were still coming to introductory talks in high numbers, my belief is that over 99% of the people I taught stopped TM within a year (the 1% effect...?). When these people were/are asked why they stopped TM, their answer was/is simple: they did not get the advertised effects from the practice of TM. I have long thought / speculated that people stop -- or do not start -- (any transcending method) because their values are off kilter -- swayed by the river of sparkling transient stuff. (like you and me -- we are far from immune.) Its similar to the pearls before swine idea maharishi droned on about -- but SCI was NOT the answer. That would make anyone run out of the building faster than if it was on fire. I am not sure of what the method of enriching the perspective and values in the populance that would support wide-spread adoption of transcending methods -- though I have some thoughts. Part of which is the wide-spread, collective recognition that drinking dew drops from plants is not very effective in quenching thirst. And the hyper communications / connectivity enabled by the Net, etc, may hasten that personal recognition (Eureka moment) in people when as a collective we are able to pass by lots of stuff -- (taking others experiences as well as our own) and see the emptiness of it all (aka the world). Cool but ultimately empty. Then the attention is redy for something rich -- yet subtle. While the huge dropout rate is never talked about by the TMO (of course), it is something that decreases the size of the I see it benefits my friend, so I will do it effect. Science
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M compost...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I really have nothing against the technique itself, never have. I still practice TM every morning for 1/2 hour. I do it for one reason and one reason only. It feels good. I like how I feel afterwards when I read the paper, listen to Mahler and have a tall latte. If it ever feels bad I'll stop. No more something good is happening for me. If it feels good, it is good (for me anyway.) That's exactly how I feel too (but please turn down the Mahler!) I've been mildly curious about other practices through the years, but never enough to jump back in again and devote myself to a new spiritual bus. [snip] I would love to know what Guru Dev would have to say about how MMY handled his movement. I believe he would have been absolutely appalled at what MMY did in his name! Based on everything we know about Guru Dev, he would have taken a VERY dim view of hustling the wealthy for money in the name of spirituality. I imagine him wanting to kick Mahesh's ass all the way back to the cave I'm not with you there. I find it odd that many of the same folks here who have left-leaning sympathies also get very precious about the vulnerable Rich getting bad value for their donations to the TMO. A British leftie once famously said that he wanted to *tax the rich until the pips squeaked. Where's your socialist cojones? Can you imagine a parallel world in which MMY would have got a better reception on returning to his master e.g. Very well done. I know you only gave a taste of bliss to 500 or so villagers nearby - but I'm SO relieved you absolutely refused to accept money to bring bliss to the masses. Pity that chap geezerfreak never got the gift. We had such high hopes for him in his next incarnation, but that'll have to wait now. Still, come sit by me on this cloud? Or could it be that he did NOT think that money was the root of all evil, but just that attachment to money was the sin? Money is just money. And could it be that MMY might say Master, I've done my time. Next time, please just ask me to stay in a cave rather than try to save the world. Can't we leave that to Bono? First mmy didn't bring bliss to the masses or save the world. Second, as far as making TM widely available, that happened at a time when mmy and tmo were not obsessed with money and ego, but offering the technique at a reasonable price -- and tm teachers even got a little. It's when the tmo got obsessed with donations, million dollar courses, world's largest golden towers, outrageously priced yagyas and other vedic products, and generally catering to the rich within the tmo and sticking it to the avg tm teacher, that tm teaching plummeted. If you talk with tmo insiders and analyze the public financial records, you see the tmo spent much more time doing business and real estate deals and raising donations than it did teaching tm.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 11:12 AM, grate.swan wrote: That's funny that your view of GD -- or any master of the tradition -- or any enlightenment tradition - is so one dimensional. he did this, ergo he could have thought or done nothing else. Doesn't speak well for the vastness of the Knowledge of the tradition if that's the case. Unfortunately, it's the reality of who these people were. As I'm sure you know, SBS wouldn't stay in a room where a woman was present. That GD upheld the traditional monk view of the tradition AND saw whole other sets of possibilities and extensions of the knowledge for many other walks of life -- is neither surprising nor amazing to me. That it appears to be a huge stretch for so for many here is -- well- amazing. I don't see it as a huge stretch. The point is that it undermines the idea, rather popular among adherers of the TM/TMO mythos, that Mahesh was SBS's primary student or SBS gave Mahesh some ear-whispered tradition. Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with the Holy Shank. Order. If you liked endless pomp and ritual and horrendous Karnatic singing by the follower's kids, you might have dug it. I was just never one for that dripping Vaishnavite sentimentality. It was an interesting experience, I learned a lot, but not one I'd consider being involved with. My wife, who was the nurse for the math, feels the same way.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I really have nothing against the technique itself, never have. I still practice TM every morning for 1/2 hour. I do it for one reason and one reason only. It feels good. I like how I feel afterwards when I read the paper, listen to Mahler and have a tall latte. If it ever feels bad I'll stop. No more something good is happening for me. If it feels good, it is good (for me anyway.) That's exactly how I feel too (but please turn down the Mahler!) I've been mildly curious about other practices through the years, but never enough to jump back in again and devote myself to a new spiritual bus. [snip] I would love to know what Guru Dev would have to say about how MMY handled his movement. I believe he would have been absolutely appalled at what MMY did in his name! Based on everything we know about Guru Dev, he would have taken a VERY dim view of hustling the wealthy for money in the name of spirituality. I imagine him wanting to kick Mahesh's ass all the way back to the cave I'm not with you there. I find it odd that many of the same folks here who have left-leaning sympathies also get very precious about the vulnerable Rich getting bad value for their donations to the TMO. A British leftie once famously said that he wanted to *tax the rich until the pips squeaked. Where's your socialist cojones? Can you imagine a parallel world in which MMY would have got a better reception on returning to his master e.g. Very well done. I know you only gave a taste of bliss to 500 or so villagers nearby - but I'm SO relieved you absolutely refused to accept money to bring bliss to the masses. Pity that chap geezerfreak never got the gift. We had such high hopes for him in his next incarnation, but that'll have to wait now. Still, come sit by me on this cloud? Or could it be that he did NOT think that money was the root of all evil, but just that attachment to money was the sin? Money is just money. And could it be that MMY might say Master, I've done my time. Next time, please just ask me to stay in a cave rather than try to save the world. Can't we leave that to Bono? First mmy didn't bring bliss to the masses or save the world. Second, as far as making TM widely available, that happened at a time when mmy and tmo were not obsessed with money and ego, but offering the technique at a reasonable price -- and tm teachers even got a little. It's when the tmo got obsessed with donations, million dollar courses, world's largest golden towers, outrageously priced yagyas and other vedic products, and generally catering to the rich within the tmo and sticking it to the avg tm teacher, that tm teaching plummeted. If you talk with tmo insiders and analyze the public financial records, you see the tmo spent much more time doing business and real estate deals and raising donations than it did teaching tm. The mistake here, (IMO) that is repeated widely, is to view teaching TM as the sole mission of the Movement. The sole mission of the Movement was, is , and will always be to light-up the world BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE. The practice of TM by the masses' was ONE such method. Many more have been developed uncovered, tired, used, discarded, reinvented etc. Large pundit yagyas is a CURRENT method. It may not be the method used in 10 years. Lots of ways to skin a cat. Some methods are more appropriate to one micro time period than others.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 11:12 AM, grate.swan wrote: That's funny that your view of GD -- or any master of the tradition -- or any enlightenment tradition - is so one dimensional. he did this, ergo he could have thought or done nothing else. Doesn't speak well for the vastness of the Knowledge of the tradition if that's the case. Unfortunately, it's the reality of who these people were. As I'm sure you know, SBS wouldn't stay in a room where a woman was present. An thats my point. Despite liberation GD was not free to teach many sectors of society. He was bound by the role of a shankaracharaya, his vows, sadhana, etc. Thats the glory of mharishi in GD's eyes, I surmise. He had not such bonds, wasn't even a Brahmin. So, that, plus that Maharisi got it that is, GD's mind/heart set, Maharishi was the perfect -- ok a -- vehicle to give simple methods to the masses. And THAT would have a lot more effect than a few monks chanting away no matter how deep their ooggie boogie stuff and terms. That GD upheld the traditional monk view of the tradition AND saw whole other sets of possibilities and extensions of the knowledge for many other walks of life -- is neither surprising nor amazing to me. That it appears to be a huge stretch for so for many here is -- well- amazing. I don't see it as a huge stretch. The point is that it undermines the idea, rather popular among adherers of the TM/TMO mythos, that Mahesh was SBS's primary student or SBS gave Mahesh some ear-whispered tradition. I hardly view maharishi as his only student. Its against common sense. GD had many irons in the fire. maharishi was one. for the masses. Even maharish said 'I was not a scholar sitting around GD with all that complex philosophy. That was the role of others. Maharishi had a different market segment, different tools -- but all from the same heart/mind set (of GD) that others were working from. Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with the Holy Shank. Order. If you liked endless pomp and ritual and horrendous Karnatic singing by the follower's kids, you might have dug it. I was just never one for that dripping Vaishnavite sentimentality. It was an interesting experience, I learned a lot, but not one I'd consider being involved with. My wife, who was the nurse for the math, feels the same way. So then you must dig the simplicity of TM. And eschew the complex monk stuff and terminology from the S. Order.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 29, 2009, at 12:09 PM, grate.swan wrote: Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with the Holy Shank. Order. If you liked endless pomp and ritual and horrendous Karnatic singing by the follower's kids, you might have dug it. I was just never one for that dripping Vaishnavite sentimentality. It was an interesting experience, I learned a lot, but not one I'd consider being involved with. My wife, who was the nurse for the math, feels the same way. So then you must dig the simplicity of TM. And eschew the complex monk stuff and terminology from the S. Order. I view it in a similar way. It was a neat experience to have when I was younger, so I took what was valuable and moved on. The most difficult thing about higher forms of meditation isn't that they're more difficult than TM, it's that they're much simpler.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I really have nothing against the technique itself, never have. I still practice TM every morning for 1/2 hour. I do it for one reason and one reason only. It feels good. I like how I feel afterwards when I read the paper, listen to Mahler and have a tall latte. If it ever feels bad I'll stop. No more something good is happening for me. If it feels good, it is good (for me anyway.) That's exactly how I feel too (but please turn down the Mahler!) I've been mildly curious about other practices through the years, but never enough to jump back in again and devote myself to a new spiritual bus. [snip] I would love to know what Guru Dev would have to say about how MMY handled his movement. I believe he would have been absolutely appalled at what MMY did in his name! Based on everything we know about Guru Dev, he would have taken a VERY dim view of hustling the wealthy for money in the name of spirituality. I imagine him wanting to kick Mahesh's ass all the way back to the cave I'm not with you there. I find it odd that many of the same folks here who have left- leaning sympathies also get very precious about the vulnerable Rich getting bad value for their donations to the TMO. A British leftie once famously said that he wanted to *tax the rich until the pips squeaked. Where's your socialist cojones? Can you imagine a parallel world in which MMY would have got a better reception on returning to his master e.g. Very well done. I know you only gave a taste of bliss to 500 or so villagers nearby - but I'm SO relieved you absolutely refused to accept money to bring bliss to the masses. Pity that chap geezerfreak never got the gift. We had such high hopes for him in his next incarnation, but that'll have to wait now. Still, come sit by me on this cloud? Or could it be that he did NOT think that money was the root of all evil, but just that attachment to money was the sin? Money is just money. And could it be that MMY might say Master, I've done my time. Next time, please just ask me to stay in a cave rather than try to save the world. Can't we leave that to Bono? First mmy didn't bring bliss to the masses or save the world. Second, as far as making TM widely available, that happened at a time when mmy and tmo were not obsessed with money and ego, but offering the technique at a reasonable price -- and tm teachers even got a little. It's when the tmo got obsessed with donations, million dollar courses, world's largest golden towers, outrageously priced yagyas and other vedic products, and generally catering to the rich within the tmo and sticking it to the avg tm teacher, that tm teaching plummeted. If you talk with tmo insiders and analyze the public financial records, you see the tmo spent much more time doing business and real estate deals and raising donations than it did teaching tm. I take your point. Though I would say MMY DID bring something of genuine spiritual value into the lives of many 000s. Or s. Not bliss to the masses, but an extraordinary and unique achievement. Right now, it's not looking as though he *saved the world* (But he sure as hell tried).
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukr...@... wrote: and manasika japa is not TM, I can do manasika japa anywhere like on the subway and do, I would never want to do TM in those situations , its something very subtle and delicate. One can still think in a helicopter... -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:02 AM, grate.swan wrote: You can accept or reject either of these points. If you accept both (at least as reasonable and plausible) then its hard to buy a lot of this GD would have been upset and dismayed with MMY sort of patter. It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed. Now, just who would be pissed? Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: You would need to offer people, what they are seeking... Not everyone who learned TM, were seeking enlightenment... Many did not even know what they were seeking, when they learned TM... People like to eat healthy food... People like authenticity and social interaction. People like music and like to dance. People like to hear poetry. People like to serve and be served... People like to feel 'connected'... As you could tell, from the report from the Englishman who traveled the country, and couldn't wait to get out of Fairfield... It's a feeling people are seeking, and that feeling was there at one time... It's not something that can be manipulated...as were so tired of being manipulated. I'm not exactly sure, when Maharishi left the organization as it is... But, all it needs, is what the time calls for now... 'Real Change We Can Believe In' R.G. While I wonder about the likelihood of some of what you wrote regarding what people like (e.g eating healthy food), I agree with most of what you wrote. TMO could have turned out something completely different along the lines you have described, and it would have been wonderful. Envisioning your points caused me to imagine some of the wonderful, fun, and growth-filled experiences that could have been possible - and reminded me of the some in past which will not get into this book - especially with the pictures I have...:). This thought also occurred. I notice that many huge organizations (e.g. governments, big businesses, universities, the bigger mainline churches) all have high similarity to the current TMO in terms of rules, regulations, punishments, etc. (and in terms of the churches and university commencements, rather strange outerwear as the fashion industry would say). Am I missing something because of my own biases? Are there large organizations that last, but do not have the characteristics that I listed? Science
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: You would need to offer people, what they are seeking... Not everyone who learned TM, were seeking enlightenment... Many did not even know what they were seeking, when they learned TM... People like to eat healthy food... People like authenticity and social interaction. People like music and like to dance. People like to hear poetry. People like to serve and be served... People like to feel 'connected'... As you could tell, from the report from the Englishman who traveled the country, and couldn't wait to get out of Fairfield... It's a feeling people are seeking, and that feeling was there at one time... It's not something that can be manipulated...as were so tired of being manipulated. I'm not exactly sure, when Maharishi left the organization as it is... But, all it needs, is what the time calls for now... 'Real Change We Can Believe In' R.G. While I wonder about the likelihood of some of what you wrote regarding what people like (e.g eating healthy food), I agree with most of what you wrote. TMO could have turned out something completely different along the lines you have described, and it would have been wonderful. Envisioning your points caused me to imagine some of the wonderful, fun, and growth-filled experiences that could have been possible - and reminded me of the some in past which will not get into this book - especially with the pictures I have...:). This thought also occurred. I notice that many huge organizations (e.g. governments, big businesses, universities, the bigger mainline churches) all have high similarity to the current TMO in terms of rules, regulations, punishments, etc. (and in terms of the churches and university commencements, rather strange outerwear as the fashion industry would say). Am I missing something because of my own biases? Are there large organizations that last, but do not have the characteristics that I listed? Science Yes, someone here mentioned it the other day. Alcoholics Anonymous has managed to stay remarkably pure and true to it's original mission. I had a friend (a musician) who lapsed in that direction and, out of desperation, turned to AA. I attended some meetings with him for support and was struck by the simplicity and honesty of the approach. There was no photo of a head guy'. In fact you really have to dig deep to find out about the founder Bill W. Money? A few bucks thrown in a passed tray to cover the room rental, coffee and cookies. I went to 4 or 5 meetings and found myself incredibly impressed. Since leaving the TMO, my cult BS detectors have remained in high gear. I certainly can't speak for every long lived organization with self help aspirations but AA strikes me as the real deal. I'm sure there are plenty of loonies aboard in some capacity but the point isthere is no cult of personality at work here. And there is no overt money making going on that I can see. Seems like the purity of the teaching AA style has remained intact.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
Do you think the reports about millions going to his personal family members in India and hidden accounts are all made up? I think it's pretty well established as far as we can tell. But I don't think the motivation was ever let's screw these dumbass westerners for all the cash we can and stash it away for the family. It was more likely to be Maharishi thinking that he wanted to create some solid business foundations which would yield an income to support pundit groups. So he gave the money to his family to invest, and they, being human beings, would have looked at the cash and thought mmm, uncle is giving us untraceble cash to spend on investments, well as no one is looking and the audit trail has been cleaned, a few million wouldn't go missing and it sort of got out of hand from then on. I know that after Maharishi died there was an attempt to freeze various bank accounts and get control of the money back from the family. Trouble is the money is the least of concerns, it's the human assets that count and the TMO has been and still is very careless with its human assets.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
The number of properties owned by the TMO with which I am familiar is quite astounding and will not be known by the public or TMO members in the forseeable future. Reason for parentheses: MMY was quite clear to his assistants on his reason for his increasingly strong focus on money in the last years his life (stated above). Whether we believe his reason or not, that is up to us - thus the reason for the parentheses. Presumably, if all this money went through registered charities in different countries it ought to be possible to piece together the jig-saw from the annual statements they're required to produce. If it didn't go through registered charities then we ought to see big gaps. E.g. $100M exiting the accounts in America, and $10M arriving in accounts in India. If we then try to work out who the directors of the different entities are, e.g if the names B. Morris and Shrivastava/Varma turn up on a list of company officers that's a dead giveaway, we can slowly work out where all the money has gone. A bit of forensic accounting should turn up some interesting things. Unfortunately for the TMO, real value is in people not buildings or property deeds. Think of Maharishi Central University, a collection of empty buildings with weeds growing between them isn't going to keep the knowledge intact for future generations.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Like I said, that's laughable. Is that why he 'dropped' his whole name in favor of the generic title he used?, you're not making any sense! His dedication was to Vedic culture not himself, sorry you can't see that, perhaps your angst has gotten the best of you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
Billy wrote: I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. gezzerfreak wrote: Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Apparently Billy worked very closely with both the Marshy and Charles F. Lutes. William P. Murphy (Billy) is on the list of TM teachers in good standing. But please note that the geezerfreak is not on the list and apparently never even heard of a TMO list, not even a TMO mailing list. Go figure. I guess the geezer has been out of the loop for about thirty years. From what I've read, the geezer is an informant working for the C.I.A. Do not trust this guy, Billy, he has no information of value to offer - he is a known impostor; a troll and is not allowed inside the Patanjali Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if the geezer has been banned from setting foot on the MUM campus - his name is mud all over Fairfield. From what I've heard, the geezer' IS on the TMO black list. He's certainly on my list - right up there with Lon P. Stacks and Tom Pall, nut-cases and fruitcakes to avoid.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
BillyG wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification... Curtis wrote: Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Well, I guess if the Marshy had wanted his name to be that famous he would have had Mahesh Chandra Varma ingraved on everthing, since that apparently was his name. But in fact, none of the things you mentioned was for the Marshy - everything he did was to glorify his Master, the Swami Brahmanand Saraswati. Curtis really likes to twist things around, but like Barry Wright, he seems to get it mostly all screwed up. Obviously Curtis is prejudiced against South Asians - I can't count the number of times Curtis has insulted the Hindus's religious beliefs. It's a very low thing to do, in my opinion. it doesn't show any style at all. The guy has absolutely no style, no class. He's the classic backward Dravidian reactionary, sexually repressed, greedy, hypocritical, and a bald-faced liar. - Ned Wynn
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
Vaj wrote: Let's not forget that he also gave his ultimate teachings on enlightenment...for a cool MILLION. This includes some on this list. From those who've talked about what they received, it was just BS. Little new, certainly nothing enlightening. For those who were very attached to his former personality and earlier memories, it was a chance to buy video darshan, as he sequestered himself a way, like a Hindu Howard Hughes. Cha ching. He was the archetypal megalomaniacal, materialistic and Asuriac guru of our time. And he died likely from complications from his sweetness addiction and his own diabetes, in a mansion designed to resemble a king's palace. A tacky king's palace. What's most interesting to me is the incredible, monumental effort his followers go to to cover for him and hide his avaricious ambitions. Yeah, the Marshy can't hold a candle to all your accomplishments, Vaj. LOL! But maybe you should actually try TM someday - you might actually enjoy contacting the Transcendent. Maybe it's time for you to take a long sabbatical from posting on FFL, Vaj; then, in a year or two, you could return here and say something that is worthwhile, like an adept, or at least a gentleman. At present, you are neither, Sir.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Billy wrote: Like I said, that's laughable. Is that why he 'dropped' his whole name in favor of the generic title he used?, you're not making any sense! His dedication was to Vedic culture not himself, sorry you can't see that, perhaps your angst has gotten the best of you. Well, Billy, Curtis hasn't been making very much sense here for months. Apparently he has gone off the deep end, along with Barry, Vaj, and Sal. Why they'd think they have to stoop to lying to try and prove their point is beyond me. You'd think that that they'd get self conscious after a awhile, or at least a little embarassed, getting their ass kicked by Judy for lying so much, but I guess not. Maybe they like to get their ass kicked - anyway it's really fun to watch. But, it's one thing to be a liar, do they have to be hypocrites as well? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 28, 2009, at 9:13 AM, BillyG. wrote: Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Like I said, that's laughable. Is that why he 'dropped' his whole name in favor of the generic title he used?, you're not making any sense! His dedication was to Vedic culture not himself, sorry you can't see that, perhaps your angst has gotten the best of you. Billy I don't think it's fair to claim that the self-acclaimed title Maharishi is just some generic title. In fact it's quite grandiose, only typically used by legitimate saints and realizers of the highest calibre. Mahesh does not only have a long history of grandiosity and vanity, but he's actually been caught adding aliases to his name (i.e. His Holiness). It appears he was just a very vain businessman.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: Billy wrote: I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. gezzerfreak wrote: Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Apparently Billy worked very closely with both the Marshy and Charles F. Lutes. William P. Murphy (Billy) is on the list of TM teachers in good standing. But please note that the geezerfreak is not on the list and apparently never even heard of a TMO list, not even a TMO mailing list. Go figure. I guess the geezer has been out of the loop for about thirty years. From what I've read, the geezer is an informant working for the C.I.A. Do not trust this guy, Billy, he has no information of value to offer - he is a known impostor; a troll and is not allowed inside the Patanjali Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if the geezer has been banned from setting foot on the MUM campus - his name is mud all over Fairfield. From what I've heard, the geezer' IS on the TMO black list. He's certainly on my list - right up there with Lon P. Stacks and Tom Pall, nut-cases and fruitcakes to avoid. Word!
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: The number of properties owned by the TMO with which I am familiar is quite astounding and will not be known by the public or TMO members in the forseeable future. Reason for parentheses: MMY was quite clear to his assistants on his reason for his increasingly strong focus on money in the last years his life (stated above). Whether we believe his reason or not, that is up to us - thus the reason for the parentheses. Presumably, if all this money went through registered charities in different countries it ought to be possible to piece together the jig-saw from the annual statements they're required to produce. If it didn't go through registered charities then we ought to see big gaps. E.g. $100M exiting the accounts in America, and $10M arriving in accounts in India. If we then try to work out who the directors of the different entities are, e.g if the names B. Morris and Shrivastava/Varma turn up on a list of company officers that's a dead giveaway, we can slowly work out where all the money has gone. A bit of forensic accounting should turn up some interesting things. Unfortunately for the TMO, real value is in people not buildings or property deeds. Think of Maharishi Central University, a collection of empty buildings with weeds growing between them isn't going to keep the knowledge intact for future generations. most of the US money seems to have gone into registered charities. the real estate and other hard assets usually stay there but cash has been transferring out at a fast rate generally to offshore accts in the channel islands, ie into the banking void. someone could put together an interesting flow chart of the past 10 yrs. the tmo has been selling US real estate at a fast clip for some time. certain names always pop up on the us charities as directors -- bevan, feldman, girish and prakash, potter -- the inner circle at holland, but who knows who really controls the large transfers? I've heard that near the end mmy made harris kaplan, bevan and another business guy who's name slips my mind in charge of the brahmananda saraswati trust which i think is the main channel island account now.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: Unfortunately for the TMO, real value is in people not buildings or property deeds. Think of Maharishi Central University, a collection of empty buildings with weeds growing between them isn't going to keep the knowledge intact for future generations. I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Science
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 28, 2009, at 3:58 PM, scienceofabundance wrote: I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,) Are there people who still really believe this sh*t? so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/ death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Maybe if he hadn't sold out so spectacularly himself, he might have better been able to take responsibility for the sorry state of the TMO instead of blaming others. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Science It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of coherence in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new goodwill will be generated after the phase transition. What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting customers is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here. At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through. Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that idea will be wearing a bit thin. Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve what he wanted in this generation wasn't lack of coherence, but simple stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is. At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to get to grips with. All those buildings and property assets that Maharishi put his faith in will be seen as worthless when there's no one to fill them or make use of them. It will take time, but that awful realization will come, and then the movement will have a chance again to grow. What would help people get out of their delusions is if they could see the full extent of all the dubious business dealings that have gone on in the last 20 years. There are very good reasons why Bevan refuses to publish a full independent audit of the entire global operation. Like you say the full extent of the property assets will not become generally known. Which is why people should try to piece together a full picture from whatever scraps are available. If people at the
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. Even if #2 and #3 were in place, I am not as sure as you are that loads of people would come on down if the price was right. Over a 15-year period of teaching TM when people were still coming to introductory talks in high numbers, my belief is that over 99% of the people I taught stopped TM within a year (the 1% effect...?). When these people were/are asked why they stopped TM, their answer was/is simple: they did not get the advertised effects from the practice of TM. While the huge dropout rate is never talked about by the TMO (of course), it is something that decreases the size of the I see it benefits my friend, so I will do it effect. Science
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. Even if #2 and #3 were in place, I am not as sure as you are that loads of people would come on down if the price was right. Over a 15-year period of teaching TM when people were still coming to introductory talks in high numbers, my belief is that over 99% of the people I taught stopped TM within a year (the 1% effect...?). When these people were/are asked why they stopped TM, their answer was/is simple: they did not get the advertised effects from the practice of TM. While the huge dropout rate is never talked about by the TMO (of course), it is something that decreases the size of the I see it benefits my friend, so I will do it effect. Science You would need to offer people, what they are seeking... Not everyone who learned TM, were seeking enlightenment... Many did not even know what they were seeking, when they learned TM... People like to eat healthy food... People like authenticity and social interaction. People like music and like to dance. People like to hear poetry. People like to serve and be served... People like to feel 'connected'... As you could tell, from the report from the Englishman who traveled the country, and couldn't wait to get out of Fairfield... It's a feeling people are seeking, and that feeling was there at one time... It's not something that can be manipulated...as were so tired of being manipulated. I'm not exactly sure, when Maharishi left the organization as it is... But, all it needs, is what the time calls for now... 'Real Change We Can Believe In' R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Science It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of coherence in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new goodwill will be generated after the phase transition. What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting customers is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here. At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through. Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that idea will be wearing a bit thin. Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve what he wanted in this generation wasn't lack of coherence, but simple stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is. At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to get to grips with. All those buildings and property assets that Maharishi put his faith in will be seen as worthless when there's no one to fill them or make use of them. It will take time, but that awful realization will come, and then the movement will have a chance again to grow. What would help people get out of their delusions is if they could see the full extent of all the dubious business dealings that have gone on in the last 20 years. There are very good reasons why Bevan refuses to publish a full independent audit of the entire global operation. Like you say the full extent of the property
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Science It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of coherence in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new goodwill will be generated after the phase transition. What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting customers is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here. At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through. Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that idea will be wearing a bit thin. Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve what he wanted in this generation wasn't lack of coherence, but simple stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is. At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to get to grips with. All those buildings and property assets that Maharishi put his faith in will be seen as worthless when there's no one to fill them or make use of them. It will take time, but that awful realization will come, and then the movement will have a chance again to grow. What would help people get out of their delusions is if they could see the full extent of all the dubious business dealings that have gone on in the last 20 years. There
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Science It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of coherence in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new goodwill will be generated after the phase transition. What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting customers is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here. At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through. Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that idea will be wearing a bit thin. Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve what he wanted in this generation wasn't lack of coherence, but simple stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is. At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to get to grips with. All those buildings and property assets that Maharishi put his faith in will be seen as worthless when there's no one to fill them or make use of them. It will take time, but that awful realization will come, and then the movement will have a chance again to grow. What would help
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Science It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of coherence in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new goodwill will be generated after the phase transition. What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting customers is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here. At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through. Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that idea will be wearing a bit thin. Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve what he wanted in this generation wasn't lack of coherence, but simple stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is. At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to get to grips with. All those buildings and property assets that Maharishi put his faith in will be seen as worthless when there's no one to fill
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL. If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will not work. When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime (in this generation). Science It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of coherence in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new goodwill will be generated after the phase transition. What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting customers is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here. At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through. Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that idea will be wearing a bit thin. Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve what he wanted in this generation wasn't lack of coherence, but simple stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is. At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true: he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught. Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way back in 1993: http://tinyurl.com/34zns4 If you want to get right to that section, click on Read More at the bottom of the post to get to the complete post, then do a text search for Such a reversal and read from there. snip Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't that strike any of you as a bit strange? Never occurred to me until Paul Mason posed the question awhile back, but the answer seemed to me pretty obvious: because Guru Dev was a *religious* leader, and MMY was trying to package TM as secular. Guru Dev was also strong on the behavioral stuff, do's and don'ts, which MMY wanted to deemphasize. (Not talking about TMO rules but yamas and niyamas and devotion to God and so on.) The TMO became a rotted farce of the original intention long ago. My personal curiosity in the TMO history at this point revolves around when MMY reached the tipping point between the original goal and the money/power/ influence goal that ruined the modern day movement. Don't know about the timing of the tipping point or if there ever actually was one. I've never been around him, but from reading *about* him, my sense is that once he got the idea of spiritually regenerating the world back in the early days in India, it took hold of him and never let go. He couldn't say at any point, OK, that's as much as we can do; he had to try to go all the way. Temperamentally, he was brilliant at building a movement up to a certain point, but then he began to flounder and just didn't make the right moves, especially when he began to come up against opposition. I think he genuinely expected that it would all fall into place, as it did in the early years, and he had no sense of what to do when that expansion stopped. (Not that he didn't have all kinds of ideas, but they obviously weren't effective.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: I'm also curious about the true source of the technique of using these particular bija mantras in this way. I would like to think that it was there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence that this was something Maharishi cooked up in 1954. Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true: he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught. Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way back in 1993: http://tinyurl.com/34zns4 If you want to get right to that section, click on Read More at the bottom of the post to get to the complete post, then do a text search for Such a reversal and read from there. snip Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't that strike any of you as a bit strange? Never occurred to me until Paul Mason posed the question awhile back, but the answer seemed to me pretty obvious: because Guru Dev was a *religious* leader, and MMY was trying to package TM as secular. Guru Dev was also strong on the behavioral stuff, do's and don'ts, which MMY wanted to deemphasize. (Not talking about TMO rules but yamas and niyamas and devotion to God and so on.) The TMO became a rotted farce of the original intention long ago. My personal curiosity in the TMO history at this point revolves around when MMY reached the tipping point between the original goal and the money/power/ influence goal that ruined the modern day movement. Don't know about the timing of the tipping point or if there ever actually was one. I've never been around him, but from reading *about* him, my sense is that once he got the idea of spiritually regenerating the world back in the early days in India, it took hold of him and never let go. He couldn't say at any point, OK, that's as much as we can do; he had to try to go all the way. Temperamentally, he was brilliant at building a movement up to a certain point, but then he began to flounder and just didn't make the right moves, especially when he began to come up against opposition. I think he genuinely expected that it would all fall into place, as it did in the early years, and he had no sense of what to do when that expansion stopped. (Not that he didn't have all kinds of ideas, but they obviously weren't effective.) Maharishi had three turning points, during the time, also... He felt deeply betrayed, as he was innocently attempting to spread the 'Light of Swami Bramhanandam Saraswati' wherever and whenever he could. Being an earthy sign of Capricorn, he thought of things, in terms of the earth element, and therefore appreciated the structure of things... He enjoyed physics as a youngster, and chose the past of spirit when he met Guru Dev. Being very small in statue, played a part, in his will to big in spirit. He was betrayed by John Lennon. He was betrayed by the USA Vs. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He was betrayed by someone who attempted to murder him. Having almost died, he continued to live in solitude, but still able to teach through the miracle of electricity, and his message will continue to live on through the eons of time...long past anything we can now imagine... All is forgiven now... He made us all to be like him. Especially, I hate to say it... But even Bevan was saved through his Grace! R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
RG: Thanks for posting that. Beautifully stated. Absolutely my experience and couldn't be written better than you did. Love the technique; have stayed away from the TMO shenanigans since 1980! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: TM is a technique which transcends itself... Unfortunately, the organization which it produced, does not. In a way, they are polar opposites. With the TM technique, one becomes more fluid, more free. With the TMO, one becomes more rigid, more dependent. Every organization has this problem...it's kind of an inherent thing, with any organization. The only exception I know of is the 12 step programs... The founders, with the help of Carl Jung, and others, structured the 12 steps, To be free of ego and money. No one is the 'Head' of the organization, and no one makes money from it. No one seeks fame, and no one broadcasts on radio or TV. The organization is structured this way, to preserve it's purity... And it has succeeded in a big way, around the world. As soon as one is given power and money, the innocence is lost. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maharishi wanted to attend to the rich and powerful, mostly... For whatever reason? I'm not sure. People with names like 'Kingsley' and 'Bevan', are just not my type. The names themselves reveal arrogance. I suppose because there is so much poverty in India... Many from India come here, and become entrenched in materialism... So, this has expressed itself in the TM movement, becoming more outrageous, With the times... We can all see the outrageous behavior on Wall St... It's just the way it is...with the egos running wild. It's the same thing. There was an Indian woman saint I once heard quoted as saying: 'Don't ever think you are beyond money'... Because money does have the power to corrupt, and corrupt it does. The real irony is the life that Guru Dev lived, is polar opposite; He lived most of his life, in the deep forests, with little need of material wealth. And this is where the power of the whole thing, came from. One who had no money, and no worldly power. So, where there was once a heart and a soul... Money and power took hold, and a feeling of emptiness followed. Heart and Soul were replaced with...stuff... And stuff, is just stuff...so, I don't see any way it's ever going to change. If you wish to be enlightened, you eventually need to transcend the thing, right? All I know is, I am my own 'Maharishi Effect'... When I meditate, the atmosphere around me 'settles down'... This is my experience. I appreciate the teaching, the puja is beautiful, the teaching simple and pure. But, I don't have much respect for the money changers; The money changers, in the Temple. Somehow, they need to be thrown out, but then again... We all know the story, of what happens if you mess, With those money changers. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: [snip] All I know is, I am my own 'Maharishi Effect'... When I meditate, the atmosphere around me 'settles down'... This is my experience. I appreciate the teaching, the puja is beautiful, the teaching simple and pure. But, I don't have much respect for the money changers; The money changers, in the Temple. Somehow, they need to be thrown out, but then again... We all know the story, of what happens if you mess, With those money changers. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV]
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote:  TM is a technique which transcends itself... Unfortunately, the organization which it produced, does not. In a way, they are polar opposites. With the TM technique, one becomes more fluid, more free. With the TMO, one becomes more rigid, more dependent. Every organization has this problem...it's kind of an inherent thing, with any organization. The only exception I know of is the 12 step programs... The founders, with the help of Carl Jung, and others, structured the 12 steps, To be free of ego and money. No one is the 'Head' of the organization, and no one makes money from it. No one seeks fame, and no one broadcasts on radio or TV. The organization is structured this way, to preserve it's purity... And it has succeeded in a big way, around the world. As soon as one is given power and money, the innocence is lost. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maharishi wanted to attend to the rich and powerful, mostly... For whatever reason? I'm not sure. I think the key to understanding MMY is his sincere and 'ardent' desire for World Peace and Love to all the family of nations! When he said World Peace is only a matter of money (paraphrased) he expressed his belief that the TM/TM Siddhis programs really can work. I'm not sure he was sold on the numbers however, but in his thinking I'm sure it was a good start, pretty easy really. MMY was a 'macrocosmic' teacher, his desire was social reform encompassing all the world, ambitious? absolutey! but that was MMY, IMHO. I think it's a mistake to compare MMY along with a Sat-Guru (like Guru Dev), his approach was significantly different People with names like 'Kingsley' and 'Bevan', are just not my type. The names themselves reveal arrogance. I suppose because there is so much poverty in India... Many from India come here, and become entrenched in materialism... So, this has expressed itself in the TM movement, becoming more outrageous, With the times... We can all see the outrageous behavior on Wall St... It's just the way it is...with the egos running wild. It's the same thing. There was an Indian woman saint I once heard quoted as saying: 'Don't ever think you are beyond money'... Because money does have the power to corrupt, and corrupt it does. The real irony is the life that Guru Dev lived, is polar opposite; He lived most of his life, in the deep forests, with little need of material wealth. And this is where the power of the whole thing, came from. One who had no money, and no worldly power. So, where there was once a heart and a soul... Money and power took hold, and a feeling of emptiness followed. Heart and Soul were replaced with...stuff... And stuff, is just stuff...so, I don't see any way it's ever going to change. If you wish to be enlightened, you eventually need to transcend the thing, right? All I know is, I am my own 'Maharishi Effect'... When I meditate, the atmosphere around me 'settles down'... This is my experience. I appreciate the teaching, the puja is beautiful, the teaching simple and pure. But, I don't have much respect for the money changers; The money changers, in the Temple. Somehow, they need to be thrown out, but then again... We all know the story, of what happens if you mess, With those money changers. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy?
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. I think you're fooling yourself, BillyG. Maharishi's whole effort in his later years was characterized by pitching for and getting more and more money for proposals that most often never materialized. I remember around seven or so years ago he got $100 million from an Enlightenment Course where he promised to use the money to fund some thousands of 'pandits'. No such numbers of 'pandit's' showed up anywhere for years. That ca$h went SOMEWHERE though. And that was just ONE of his-cash-for-promises ventures where he got the cash but the promises fizzled. Didn't Maharishi say sometime earlier on Larry King that all he needed was another billion dollars or so to create world peace? Do you think the reports about millions going to his personal family members in India and hidden accounts are all made up? Do you REALLY think you can pay ca$h for heaven, BillyG?
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer!
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer!
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! So you never worked with him on a continuing basis. Many who had close (daily) contact with MMY saw for themselves how he would manipulate those with access to large amounts of money to part with it for his own purposes. I saw it as well although my contact with him was not daily. If you've read the Sexy Sadie files then you also know that a number of his personal assistants have no doubt at all about his dalliances with women in the 60s and 70s. So...what you are saying is that your opinion is all based on a feeling, correct?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:15 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Let's not forget that he also gave his ultimate teachings on enlightenment...for a cool MILLION. This includes some on this list. From those who've talked about what they received, it was just BS. Little new, certainly nothing enlightening. For those who were very attached to his former personality and earlier memories, it was a chance to buy video darshan, as he sequestered himself a way, like a Hindu Howard Hughes. Cha ching. He was the archetypal megalomaniacal, materialistic and Asuriac guru of our time. And he died likely from complications from his sweetness addiction and his own diabetes, in a mansion designed to resemble a king's palace. A tacky king's palace. What's most interesting to me is the incredible, monumental effort his followers go to to cover for him and hide his avaricious ambitions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:15 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Let's not forget that he also gave his ultimate teachings on enlightenment...for a cool MILLION. This includes some on this list. From those who've talked about what they received, it was just BS. Little new, certainly nothing enlightening. For those who were very attached to his former personality and earlier memories, it was a chance to buy video darshan, as he sequestered himself a way, like a Hindu Howard Hughes. Cha ching. He was the archetypal megalomaniacal, materialistic and Asuriac guru of our time. And he died likely from complications from his sweetness addiction and his own diabetes, in a mansion designed to resemble a king's palace. A tacky king's palace. What's most interesting to me is the incredible, monumental effort his followers go to to cover for him and hide his avaricious ambitions. You say tomato, I say tomato. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig lengli...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:15 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! Let's not forget that he also gave his ultimate teachings on enlightenment...for a cool MILLION. This includes some on this list. From those who've talked about what they received, it was just BS. Little new, certainly nothing enlightening. For those who were very attached to his former personality and earlier memories, it was a chance to buy video darshan, as he sequestered himself a way, like a Hindu Howard Hughes. Cha ching. He was the archetypal megalomaniacal, materialistic and Asuriac guru of our time. And he died likely from complications from his sweetness addiction and his own diabetes, in a mansion designed to resemble a king's palace. A tacky king's palace. What's most interesting to me is the incredible, monumental effort his followers go to to cover for him and hide his avaricious ambitions. You say tomato, I say tomato. L. That might be the most lame response I can ever remember you posting Lawson.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:36 PM, sparaig wrote: You say tomato, I say tomato. You say Ayurvedic, non-GMO, Maharishi organic, scientifically-proven Vedic tomato, I say tomato. ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
I think you're fooling yourself, BillyG. Maharishi's whole effort in his later years was characterized by pitching for and getting more and more money [for proposals that most often never materialized.] I know the first part of the sentence to be true (excluding the clause which I have placed in parentheses - to be explained). From people who worked with MMY in his last years, he did indeed focus very, very strongly on money - and he was very open about it to his inner circle. His stated goal to these people who worked for him was to make the TMO financially independent for the future. His stated goals to others (pundits, etc.) may have been different. He was personally involved with a large number of investments (property mainly, particularly but not exclusively in countries where the government were engaged in partnering with organizations to buy/build properties. By personally involved, I mean phone calls to local teachers and his representatives on the ground in far from Vlodrop places. This went on right up to his last months. The number of properties owned by the TMO with which I am familiar is quite astounding and will not be known by the public or TMO members in the forseeable future. Reason for parentheses: MMY was quite clear to his assistants on his reason for his increasingly strong focus on money in the last years his life (stated above). Whether we believe his reason or not, that is up to us - thus the reason for the parentheses. Science
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't. There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out. The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was compromised, and the movement became an appeal to the elite/money changers. During this time, in the United States, ghetto life expanded, music devolved, simpletons said 'Just say No'...while they flooded the country with cocaine. Many forces were at play, and might became right... The pendulum swung all the way to the right...fascism... Now, that cycle has ended, and we are headed back to sanity... Has the movement moved so far to the right, that it can never return to the middle? Who knows why it all happened this way... It's all connected, and gated communities with fearful people living behind walls, locked in their safe little world... Maharishi polarized with Bush and Doctors, and might makes right, who were just in it for the money...seeing in their reflection, the absurdity of their ways... He became enslaved by the bitches that took over the movement. R.G. It's quite a
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't. There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out. The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was compromised, and the movement became an appeal to the elite/money changers. During this time, in the United States, ghetto life expanded, music devolved, simpletons said 'Just say No'...while they flooded the country with cocaine. Many forces were at play, and might became right... The pendulum swung all the way to the right...fascism... Now, that cycle has ended, and we are headed back to sanity... Has the movement moved so far to the right, that it can never return to the middle? Who knows why it all happened this way... It's all connected, and gated communities with fearful people living behind walls, locked in their safe little world... Maharishi polarized with Bush and Doctors, and might makes right, who were just in it for the money...seeing in their reflection, the absurdity of their ways... He became enslaved by the bitches that took over the movement. R.G. Oh, but he CREATED these bitches that took over the
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't. There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out. The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was compromised, and the movement became an appeal to the elite/money changers. During this time, in the United States, ghetto life expanded, music devolved, simpletons said 'Just say No'...while they flooded the country with cocaine. Many forces were at play, and might became right... The pendulum swung all the way to the right...fascism... Now, that cycle has ended, and we are headed back to sanity... Has the movement moved so far to the right, that it can never return to the middle? Who knows why it all happened this way... It's all connected, and gated communities with fearful people living behind walls, locked in their safe little world... Maharishi polarized with Bush and Doctors, and might makes right, who were just in it for the money...seeing in
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't. There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out. The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was compromised, and the movement became an appeal to the elite/money changers. During this time, in the United States, ghetto life expanded, music devolved, simpletons said 'Just say No'...while they flooded the country with cocaine. Many forces were at play, and might became right... The pendulum swung all the way to the right...fascism... Now, that cycle has ended, and we are headed back to sanity... Has the movement moved so far to the right, that it can never return to the middle? Who knows why it all happened this way... It's all connected, and gated communities with fearful people
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't. There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out. The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was compromised, and the movement became an appeal to the elite/money changers. During this time, in the United States, ghetto life expanded, music devolved, simpletons said 'Just say No'...while they flooded the country with cocaine. Many forces were at play, and might became right... The pendulum swung all the way to the right...fascism... Now, that cycle has ended, and we are headed back to sanity... Has the
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't. There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out. The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was compromised, and the movement became an appeal to the elite/money changers. During this time, in the United States, ghetto life expanded, music devolved, simpletons said 'Just say No'...while they flooded the country with cocaine. Many
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! Personal gratification...interesting concept. If you mean money to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions. The motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level. Donald Trump isn't at that level. The super rich do it for personal reasons. Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so much. But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world. Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts: He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand. Maharishi. The most important man in all of history. After all, he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [worldly wealth]. Matthew 6:24 [KJV] I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't it. Did you ever work personally with him Billy? Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area. But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification. If that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO. MMY was the ultimate and original True Believer! In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different. Something changed, somewhere along the line... Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed... John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold. Money became the answer to everything. The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for. Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed. Then it became like, show me the money... This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush... Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank acct... Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence. So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I have money and you don't. There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out. The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was compromised, and the movement became an appeal to the
