Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/21/2014 8:49 PM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. --- WillyTex punditster@... wrote: It sounds to me like I am being bamboozled into believing that what works for me doesn't in fact work for me. Do I need someone to tell me what to think? Go figure. --- FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: Wasn't talkin' to you. Don't you have some swine to go watch jump through hoops or something? Isn't that the equivalent of the Texas Olympics? http://i.imgur.com/Lhqtim7.gif http://i.imgur.com/Lhqtim7.gif http://gifwall.net/gif/gw-33086-Remy-Lacroix-gif-hula-hoop-hot-vsHP.gif http://gifwall.net/gif/gw-33086-Remy-Lacroix-gif-hula-hoop-hot-vsHP.gif Is this what you meant?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote: On 2/21/2014 8:49 PM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. --- WillyTex punditster@... wrote: It sounds to me like I am being bamboozled into believing that what works for me doesn't in fact work for me. Do I need someone to tell me what to think? Go figure. --- FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: Wasn't talkin' to you. Don't you have some swine to go watch jump through hoops or something? Isn't that the equivalent of the Texas Olympics? http://i.imgur.com/Lhqtim7.gif http://i.imgur.com/Lhqtim7.gif http://gifwall.net/gif/gw-33086-Remy-Lacroix-gif-hula-hoop-hot-vsHP.gif http://gifwall.net/gif/gw-33086-Remy-Lacroix-gif-hula-hoop-hot-vsHP.gif Is this what you meant? Are you saying she's a swine or should be part of the Olympics, Texas or otherwise?!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
And yet Sagan's comment is very applicable to those TM TB'ers and others who have gotten caught up in similar groups - they refuse to see the obvious. On Sat, 2/22/14, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 5:15 AM Yep, lots and lots of distractions and addictions, some very pervasive, like the materialist illusion you mention. My comment was more general, about the ability, and acceptance, of admitting a belief is in error. Information is far more available, and fluid, than it used to be. What I smelled in Sagan's words was a bit of obstinate, crusty ego, and, imo, we don't have to get stuck as easily, to old ideas, as we used to. I don't know what happens when people wake up from the materialist illusion, especially with the availability of almost an endless variety of toys, for every economic strata -- from private islands, to high political office, jets, mansions, etc. for the ultra-wealthy, and Cuisinarts, Toyotas, Disneyland, and a 30-year mortgage, for the middle-class. I spent many years, as a child, living without a dependable source of electricity, so I don't take it, and its derivatives, as a necessity for life's enjoyment, though the convenience of it is obviously unparalleled. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.:I think this old saw The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken still has a way to run. Most people today have completely bought in to the whole consumerist ethic and think that material goods will bring them fulfilment. What will happen when the retail therapy stops working and they realise they've been well and truly bamboozled? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Agreed, Ann - this tired old saw about not being able to change, once we know something, is outmoded and an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Oh, it is definitely a plague of near infinite proportions, TMers or not. But, to mix metaphors, there are definitely cracks in the wall these days, allowing people to find liberation, partial or total, more easily. I remember (squints eyes, strokes chin) when the equivalent of the Internet, was my family's used 1964 Encyclopedia Britannica (which remained current for at least a decade). It is getting harder to keep the eyes closed.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/22/2014 8:44 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: they refuse to see the obvious. That's a lot of smart people that gotbamboozled. What is the secret that you know that they don't? Is there ANYTHING you can post that would prove you're smarter than an average fifth-grader? List of people who have learned Transcendental Meditation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Transcendental_Meditation_practitioners
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Post a list of all those who quit TM and I'll read it. On Sat, 2/22/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 3:12 PM On 2/22/2014 8:44 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: they refuse to see the obvious. That's a lot of smart people that gotbamboozled. What is the secret that you know that they don't? Is there ANYTHING you can post that would prove you're smarter than an average fifth-grader? List of people who have learned Transcendental Meditation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Transcendental_Meditation_practitioners
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/22/2014 9:19 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Post a list of all those who quit TM and I'll read it. So, how do supposed that everyone on this list got bamboozled? You are not doing a good job of convincing anyone that basic TM doesn't work. You're just being negative - it's not difficult to determine who practices TM - TM practice reduces negativity. Who doesn't want that? List of people who have learned Transcendental Meditation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Transcendental_Meditation_practitioners
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/21/2014 9:25 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't that the equivalent of the Texas Olympics? From football to track, university athletics teams have earned more than 40 national championships. Current and former University of Texas at Austin athletes have won 88 Olympic medals, including 19 in Athens in 2004. http://www.utexas.edu/athletics/
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
our hit squads are eliminating them, as we speak. Peace. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Post a list of all those who quit TM and I'll read it. On Sat, 2/22/14, Richard J. Williams punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 3:12 PM On 2/22/2014 8:44 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: they refuse to see the obvious. That's a lot of smart people that gotbamboozled. What is the secret that you know that they don't? Is there ANYTHING you can post that would prove you're smarter than an average fifth-grader? List of people who have learned Transcendental Meditation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Transcendental_Meditation_practitioners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Transcendental_Meditation_practitioners
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: And yet Sagan's comment is very applicable to those TM TB'ers and others who have gotten caught up in similar groups - they refuse to see the obvious. On Sat, 2/22/14, doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 5:15 AM Yep, lots and lots of distractions and addictions, some very pervasive, like the materialist illusion you mention. My comment was more general, about the ability, and acceptance, of admitting a belief is in error. Information is far more available, and fluid, than it used to be. What I smelled in Sagan's words was a bit of obstinate, crusty ego, and, imo, we don't have to get stuck as easily, to old ideas, as we used to. I don't know what happens when people wake up from the materialist illusion, especially with the availability of almost an endless variety of toys, for every economic strata -- from private islands, to high political office, jets, mansions, etc. for the ultra-wealthy, and Cuisinarts, Toyotas, Disneyland, and a 30-year mortgage, for the middle-class. I spent many years, as a child, living without a dependable source of electricity, so I don't take it, and its derivatives, as a necessity for life's enjoyment, though the convenience of it is obviously unparalleled. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.:I think this old saw The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken still has a way to run. Most people today have completely bought in to the whole consumerist ethic and think that material goods will bring them fulfilment. What will happen when the retail therapy stops working and they realise they've been well and truly bamboozled? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Agreed, Ann - this tired old saw about not being able to change, once we know something, is outmoded and an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
you are so full of it - how many times has Buck pitched a fit here on FFL for the negativity of the Dome police who bar people for going to see other gurus? How is the draconian methods of the MIU/MUM leaders ever been anything other than negative? On Sat, 2/22/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 3:54 PM On 2/22/2014 9:19 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Post a list of all those who quit TM and I'll read it. So, how do supposed that everyone on this list got bamboozled? You are not doing a good job of convincing anyone that basic TM doesn't work. You're just being negative - it's not difficult to determine who practices TM - TM practice reduces negativity. Who doesn't want that? List of people who have learned Transcendental Meditation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Transcendental_Meditation_practitioners
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/22/2014 9:19 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Post a list of all those who quit TM and I'll read it. You seem to be just about the only informant on FFL that quit. Maybe they don't want their names to be known, but we can start with this list: 1. Michael Jackson (deceased)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/21/2014 8:49 PM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. --- WillyTex punditster@... wrote: It sounds to me like I am being bamboozled into believing that what works for me doesn't in fact work for me. Do I need someone to tell me what to think? Go figure. --- FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: Wasn't talkin' to you. Don't you have some swine to go watch jump through hoops or something? Isn't that the equivalent of the Texas Olympics? -- FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote: http://i.imgur.com/Lhqtim7.gif http://i.imgur.com/Lhqtim7.gif http://gifwall.net/gif/gw-33086-Remy-Lacroix-gif-hula-hoop-hot-vsHP.gif http://gifwall.net/gif/gw-33086-Remy-Lacroix-gif-hula-hoop-hot-vsHP.gif Is this what you meant? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: Are you saying she's a swine or should be part of the Olympics, Texas or otherwise?! http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/cartoon-pig-13683220.jpg http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/cartoon-pig-13683220.jpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/22/2014 10:28 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: how many times has Buck pitched a fit here on FFL for the negativity of the Dome police who bar people for going to see other gurus? Buck said he goes to the dome to do a group meditation almost every day and we presume that the dome police meditate every day too, but I cannot vouch for whether they practice TM correctly. In order for me to check them on their meditation, they would have to come down here to be checked by some of our own TM teachers. If it is determined that there is any negativity in their program we could maybe help them learn how to meditate correctly, according to the instructions of MMY.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/22/2014 10:28 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: How is the draconian methods of the MIU/MUM leaders ever been anything other than negative? MIU/MUM sounds a lot like your average college or university, with it's rules and administration. I don't see anything draconian about MUM as a school - it's accredited and offers degrees. From what I've read, most of the students are very positive about the school - except for a few disgruntled workers. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
I see a lot of stupidity, how many schools teach you that you can fly but without ever demonstrating it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/22/2014 10:28 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: How is the draconian methods of the MIU/MUM leaders ever been anything other than negative? MIU/MUM sounds a lot like your average college or university, with it's rules and administration. I don't see anything draconian about MUM as a school - it's accredited and offers degrees. From what I've read, most of the students are very positive about the school - except for a few disgruntled workers. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” I actually disagree with this quote. You are proof that this is not so. You feel you were bamboozled yet you have come out the other side and refuse to be bamboozled any longer. In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. (Isn't that a great word?!) ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark My thanks to Kyle who brought this to my attention. On Fri, 2/21/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Moral Behavior and TM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 21, 2014, 3:22 PM Yep; No, no this is an old vendetta you keep. You have no idea what they are like now. Born in to life with their personalities, their upbringings and such all these people put their pants on one leg at a time in life. You left TM a long time ago. They stayed on the path and you wandered off in to the world a long time ago. This is hardly a scientific conclusion or spiritually fair what you are asserting. You'd have to come back to better judge how it goes for these guys. No, you are just making excuses for railing against TM again instead of understanding these people and what makes them tick otherwise. Their bad-behavior mostly likely had not anything to do with the practice of TM it was just who they were. -Buck , Michael Jackson wrote: Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. RW writes:So, what do these people have to do with your meditation? MJackson74 writes Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are making excuses for why TM obviously seems to work in reverse for people who run the Movement.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/21/2014 8:49 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. It sounds to me like I am being bamboozled into believing that what works for me doesn't in fact work for me. Do I need someone to tell me what to think? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Agreed, Ann - this tired old saw about not being able to change, once we know something, is outmoded and an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/21/2014 8:49 PM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. It sounds to me like I am being bamboozled into believing that what works for me doesn't in fact work for me. Do I need someone to tell me what to think? Go figure. Wasn't talkin' to you. Don't you have some swine to go watch jump through hoops or something? Isn't that the equivalent of the Texas Olympics?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Re an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.: I think this old saw The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken still has a way to run. Most people today have completely bought in to the whole consumerist ethic and think that material goods will bring them fulfilment. What will happen when the retail therapy stops working and they realise they've been well and truly bamboozled? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Agreed, Ann - this tired old saw about not being able to change, once we know something, is outmoded and an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
It refers to folks like Buck and Nabby and Feste On Sat, 2/22/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 2:49 AM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” I actually disagree with this quote. You are proof that this is not so. You feel you were bamboozled yet you have come out the other side and refuse to be bamboozled any longer. In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. (Isn't that a great word?!) ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark My thanks to Kyle who brought this to my attention. On Fri, 2/21/14, dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Moral Behavior and TM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 21, 2014, 3:22 PM Yep; No, no this is an old vendetta you keep. You have no idea what they are like now. Born in to life with their personalities, their upbringings and such all these people put their pants on one leg at a time in life. You left TM a long time ago. They stayed on the path and you wandered off in to the world a long time ago. This is hardly a scientific conclusion or spiritually fair what you are asserting. You'd have to come back to better judge how it goes for these guys. No, you are just making excuses for railing against TM again instead of understanding these people and what makes them tick otherwise. Their bad-behavior mostly likely had not anything to do with the practice of TM it was just who they were. -Buck , Michael Jackson wrote: Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. RW writes:So, what do these people have to do with your meditation? MJackson74 writes Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are making
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
It refers to folks like Buck and Nabby and Feste On Sat, 2/22/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 2:49 AM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” I actually disagree with this quote. You are proof that this is not so. You feel you were bamboozled yet you have come out the other side and refuse to be bamboozled any longer. In fact, you are trying your damnedest to reveal the dirty secrets of the bamboozlers. (Isn't that a great word?!) ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark My thanks to Kyle who brought this to my attention. On Fri, 2/21/14, dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Moral Behavior and TM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 21, 2014, 3:22 PM Yep; No, no this is an old vendetta you keep. You have no idea what they are like now. Born in to life with their personalities, their upbringings and such all these people put their pants on one leg at a time in life. You left TM a long time ago. They stayed on the path and you wandered off in to the world a long time ago. This is hardly a scientific conclusion or spiritually fair what you are asserting. You'd have to come back to better judge how it goes for these guys. No, you are just making excuses for railing against TM again instead of understanding these people and what makes them tick otherwise. Their bad-behavior mostly likely had not anything to do with the practice of TM it was just who they were. -Buck , Michael Jackson wrote: Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. RW writes:So, what do these people have to do with your meditation? MJackson74 writes Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are making
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Yep, lots and lots of distractions and addictions, some very pervasive, like the materialist illusion you mention. My comment was more general, about the ability, and acceptance, of admitting a belief is in error. Information is far more available, and fluid, than it used to be. What I smelled in Sagan's words was a bit of obstinate, crusty ego, and, imo, we don't have to get stuck as easily, to old ideas, as we used to. I don't know what happens when people wake up from the materialist illusion, especially with the availability of almost an endless variety of toys, for every economic strata -- from private islands, to high political office, jets, mansions, etc. for the ultra-wealthy, and Cuisinarts, Toyotas, Disneyland, and a 30-year mortgage, for the middle-class. I spent many years, as a child, living without a dependable source of electricity, so I don't take it, and its derivatives, as a necessity for life's enjoyment, though the convenience of it is obviously unparalleled. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.: I think this old saw The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken still has a way to run. Most people today have completely bought in to the whole consumerist ethic and think that material goods will bring them fulfilment. What will happen when the retail therapy stops working and they realise they've been well and truly bamboozled? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Agreed, Ann - this tired old saw about not being able to change, once we know something, is outmoded and an idea that is dying out, with the older, ignorant generations.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Meditating, “improved moral reasoning”, and moral behavior. Three different things evidently and possibly intertwined. Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. . For instance, here is two minutes on improving behavior as learned. .. Some sensitive caring in thoughtful upbringing, in 2 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqDfb-QhNg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqDfb-QhNg -Buck in the Dome Maharishi's was revolutionary and comprehensive thinking about global peace, like Elise M. Boulding (July 6, 1920 – June 24, 2010). Boulding offers Building a Global Civic Culture: Education for an Interdependent as a holistic first step towards solving international conflicts. She envisions a “global civic culture” as not simply made of nation states but as a global community of human beings. The book enforces the idea of thinking globally on a microcosmic level to facilitate solving problems in a peaceful international order. Boulding believed that a civic world order could become a reality, while acknowledging the strife that exists now. Building a Global Civic Culture is geared toward addressing the world’s problems and offering ideas for solutions. To create peace, Boulding believes that we must all become teachers and develop new learning communities. Everyone, old and young, will teach. Age groups will teach each other from their respective generations. How we perceive events unique to our generation shapes the lens through which we each see later events. We need to know what the world looks like to young and old alike. Boulding believes all will be teachers. In order to do this, we must learn to think outside of the box. Humans are intuitive, creative animals with cognitive-analytic reasoning abilities. We as human animals can grasp complex wholes from partial sets of facts. Boulding states that for most of us, education has been tied to the maxim “stick to the facts, no need for imaginative thinking.” We are taught in school that imagination and intuition are virtues of the daydreamer, not the true student. To the contrary, Boulding states we need to harness both intuition and imagination to solve world crises. Ultimately this book encourages us to become both teachers and problem solvers and includes exercises to lead the way. Elise M. Boulding was a Quaker sociologist [many credentials], and author credited as a major contributor to creating the academic discipline of Peace and Conflict Studies. Her holistic, multidimensional approach to peace research sets her apart as an important scholar and activist in multiple fields. Her written works span several decades and range from discussion of family as a foundation for peace, to Quaker spirituality to reinventing the international “global culture”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_M._Boulding#Building_a_Global_Civic_Culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_M._Boulding#Building_a_Global_Civic_Culture Evidently as practicing and experience meditators we are not alone in our experience around this. There are other mystics who see this too. -Buck in the Dome S3raphita , I feel you are being quite saintly in taking notice of the circumstance. Yep, it is just another sign of bad upbringing and the failure of our schools and society. Including fault of all those collectively standing around smirking who without initiative themselves or had the opportunity in their own lives to pursue the proper upbringing of virtue of spiritual life themselves and all those who who may know better will themselves not going out even on a limb to help anyone other than themselves in their own material world of widget worth. I sense saintly virtue in you that you would even notice the collective failure in this incident in this poor unlucky youth. The shoplifter is just another index showing the lack in our meissner-like collective transmission of collective consciousness of virtue in life. You are a teacher of the absolute wisdom in life are you not? A transmitter of spiritual virtue? It makes sense that you are sensitive to what was in that public scene. It is now the age of science and it is neigh time they put quiet-time meditation in to the training of all our children in their schools, if their families can not provide it for their own children
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
On 2/20/2014 2:54 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates So, you're thinking MJ would be the same kind of guy even if he had never tried TM?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are making excuses for why TM obviously seems to work in reverse for people who run the Movement. On Thu, 2/20/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 20, 2014, 8:54 PM Meditating, “improved moral reasoning”, and moral behavior. Three different things evidently and possibly intertwined. Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing.. For instance, here is two minutes on improving behavior as learned. .. Some sensitive caring in thoughtful upbringing, in 2 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqDfb-QhNg -Buck in the Dome Maharishi's was revolutionary and comprehensive thinking about global peace, like Elise M. Boulding (July 6, 1920 – June 24, 2010). Boulding offers Building a Global Civic Culture: Education for an Interdependent as a holistic first step towards solving international conflicts. She envisions a “global civic culture” as not simply made of nation states but as a global community of human beings. The book enforces the idea of thinking globally on a microcosmic level to facilitate solving problems in a peaceful international order. Boulding believed that a civic world order could become a reality, while acknowledging the strife that exists now. Building a Global Civic Culture is geared toward addressing the world’s problems and offering ideas for solutions.To create peace, Boulding believes that we must all become teachers and develop new learning communities. Everyone, old and young, will teach. Age groups will teach each other from their respective generations. How we perceive events unique to our generation shapes the lens through which we each see later events. We need to know what the world looks like to young and old alike. Boulding believes all will be teachers.In order to do this, we must learn to think outside of the box. Humans are intuitive, creative animals with cognitive-analytic reasoning abilities. We as human animals can grasp complex wholes from partial sets of facts. Boulding states that for most of us, education has been tied to the maxim “stick to the facts, no need for imaginative thinking.” We are taught in school that imagination and intuition
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
RW, Essentially yes. Well, that sentence you quote of me was about more the bad behavior of some in the long history of the TM movement as it was about MJ coincidentally. But yes, what we are seeing here is a distinction between meditating, and bad up-brings and behavior. Evidently social behavior may be different or separate from whether someone is a meditator or not. Meditating as the sadhana of character is different from some published papers reporting around TM and some “improved moral reasoning” and some manifest behavior. So it is quite likely that MJ is right and is also essentially predisposed the way he is persisting as he does 'against TM', separate from or regardless whether he was a meditator or not. Now, more fundamentally interesting is that virtuous behavior otherwise has spiritually much more to do with ones total effectiveness as a meditator or spiritual practitioner overall. Virtue vs. sin in spirituality is quite evidently a different system more specifically related to the subtle system of the whole human body-mind complex of consciousness, the subtle bodies of character and soul/Atman. Behavior that lacks virtue [is without transformative shakti] is related more to character flaw as being unable to receive love as in a lack of mastering of taking in the flowing shakti vector of love of the Unified Field and giving its transmission. In character that comes in dropping in to the heart of the matter spiritually and deciding on a soul level to take it as a condition of congruence between the character and soul. Reclaiming character this way is the Sadhana of the light body. The integrity of virtue is the virtue of integrity. Core spiritual values matter most in the refinement. Fortunately the heart likes of be effective but also has the capacity to forgive itself with compassion. The development of the lite-body is the sadhana of this buoyancy and the depth of character is fueled by buoyancy of core values of virtue and that matters most. Seize the day, life is for the living while you have it. That is my experience with it, -Buck RWwrote: bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates So, you're thinking MJ would be the same kind of guy even if he had never tried TM? Yep. Very likely. mjackson74 writes: Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are making excuses for why TM obviously seems to work in reverse for people who run the Movement. Buck Writes: Meditating, “improved moral reasoning”, and moral behavior. Three different things evidently and possibly intertwined. Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
you are so full of shit Buck - I would not be saying these things if Marshy and his sycophants had not been liars and if the TMO had delivered on it promises - as all cult followers do you are blaming anyone and everyone EXCEPT the ones who deserve to be blamed On Fri, 2/21/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 21, 2014, 12:57 AM RW, Essentially yes. Well, that sentence you quote of me was about more the bad behavior of some in the long history of the TM movement as it was about MJ coincidentally. But yes, what we are seeing here is a distinction between meditating, and bad up-brings and behavior. Evidently social behavior may be different or separate from whether someone is a meditator or not. Meditating as the sadhana of character is different from some published papers reporting around TM and some “improved moral reasoning” and some manifest behavior. So it is quite likely that MJ is right and is also essentially predisposed the way he is persisting as he does 'against TM', separate from or regardless whether he was a meditator or not. Now, more fundamentally interesting is that virtuous behavior otherwise has spiritually much more to do with ones total effectiveness as a meditator or spiritual practitioner overall. Virtue vs. sin in spirituality is quite evidently a different system more specifically related to the subtle system of the whole human body-mind complex of consciousness, the subtle bodies of character and soul/Atman. Behavior that lacks virtue [is without transformative shakti] is related more to character flaw as being unable to receive love as in a lack of mastering of taking in the flowing shakti vector of love of the Unified Field and giving its transmission. In character that comes in dropping in to the heart of the matter spiritually and deciding on a soul level to take it as a condition of congruence between the character and soul. Reclaiming character this way is the Sadhana of the light body. The integrity of virtue is the virtue of integrity. Core spiritual values matter most in the refinement. Fortunately the heart likes of be effective but also has the capacity to forgive itself with compassion. The development of the lite-body is the sadhana of this buoyancy and the depth of character is fueled by buoyancy of core values of virtue and that matters most. Seize the day, life is for the living while you have it. That is my experience with it, -Buck RWwrote: bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates So, you're thinking MJ would be the same kind of guy even if he had never tried TM? Yep. Very likely. mjackson74 writes:Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here:Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
You should have taken advantage of the confusion and lifted yourself a new TV. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Today I was walking past a department store when a sudden commotion caught my attention. A young man was being frogmarched to a waiting police car by two constables - obviously he was a shoplifter who hadn't been as careful as he should have been. But what appalled me was that everyone around me - fellow pedestrians, people in coffee shops, those waiting at the bus stop - were almost universally smiling and exchanging knowing glances. I've noticed that reaction countless times in similar situations. But me: I just felt depressed. Here was a youth, perhaps on his way to prison. His mum and dad and sisters, his other relatives and his friends would be shocked and saddened by the news of his arrest. What is there to smile about for God's sake? It's a reaction I've noticed about other misfortunes. People see drug addicts in the final stages of degradation and judge these unfortunates as being losers. I see the same people and wonder what sexual or physical abuse they suffered as children - or maybe as adults they encountered some other misfortune, perhaps having to see a loved one die slowly and painfully of cancer - and think to myself how lucky I am that I have never had to cope with such trauma. So is Seraphita a saint? Not bloody likely. I am as selfish, as self-centred, as narrowly concerned with my own well-being as anyone. The difference seems to be an ability to enter imaginatively into the suffering of others and appreciate what a raw deal they had. Of course, some shop-lifters and drug addicts are complete saddos and probably need a kick up the arse and told to get a grip. But many will have just been unlucky - and luck plays a dominant role in all our lives. Imagination is often dismissed as idle fancy but really it is a faculty in which we grasp real aspects of the world - just like perception and reason. But perhaps another cause for people to enjoy the misfortunes of others - complete strangers at that - is that they are unhappy (The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. - Thoreau) and seeing someone worse off than themselves gives them a boost. They suddenly see that their own lives could be even more miserable so for a brief moment they can feel complacently self-satisfied. Alas - according to Nietzsche - pity is just cruelty disguised. There's a lot to be said for that view - just observe carefully how your friends and colleagues savour reports of disasters on the latest news bulletins while convincing themselves how compassionate they are. So what can we conclude? That Seraphita is a hypocrite! Heads you win; tails I lose.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
S3raphita , I feel you are being quite saintly in taking notice of the circumstance. Yep, it is just another sign of bad upbringing and the failure of our schools and society. Including fault of all those collectively standing around smirking who without initiative themselves or had the opportunity in their own lives to pursue the proper upbringing of virtue of spiritual life themselves and all those who who may know better will themselves not going out even on a limb to help anyone other than themselves in their own material world of widget worth. I sense saintly virtue in you that you would even notice the collective failure in this incident in this poor unlucky youth. The shoplifter is just another index showing the lack in our meissner-like collective transmission of collective consciousness of virtue in life. You are a teacher of the absolute wisdom in life are you not? A transmitter of spiritual virtue? It makes sense that you are sensitive to what was in that public scene. It is now the age of science and it is neigh time they put quiet-time meditation in to the training of all our children in their schools, if their families can not provide it for their own children if not just to save us all. To save us all from this vileness otherwise there is a place for public education in these sound values of life. All it takes is some quiet-time. It pisses me off too to watch the smirking jerks as you point to, like some even here who would actually stand in the way and fight what is such evident science and get in the way of the larger transmission of virtue in life. Yep, all those smirking jerks all watching the theatre of this youth being taken off should all be sending checks of donation as a matter of character to the David Lynch Foundation to help in the trenches in the fight against all that is vile in life. The teaching of and learning of the transcendental meditative state is the inalienable right to be guaranteed of every human being born in to this life. That is the first right that needs to be first guaranteed to every child growing up. Teaching of effective transcending meditation in all our schools is now the scientific standard of a proper education and should be all our public's policy regardless. I commend you for bringing this sad story to our attention here at FFL. You are a saint in reaching for the transformation that awareness can bring. It would be cruelty to know the great virtue of life and not say anything or do anything about this situation. Thanks for bringing this to our attention here. It will likelymake us all better for it in pursuing our spiritual practices as we go about our daily lives. Thanks, you are a saint. -Buck s3raphita writes: Today I was walking past a department store when a sudden commotion caught my attention. A young man was being frogmarched to a waiting police car by two constables - obviously he was a shoplifter who hadn't been as careful as he should have been. But what appalled me was that everyone around me - fellow pedestrians, people in coffee shops, those waiting at the bus stop - were almost universally smiling and exchanging knowing glances. I've noticed that reaction countless times in similar situations. But me: I just felt depressed. Here was a youth, perhaps on his way to prison. His mum and dad and sisters, his other relatives and his friends would be shocked and saddened by the news of his arrest. What is there to smile about for God's sake? It's a reaction I've noticed about other misfortunes. People see drug addicts in the final stages of degradation and judge these unfortunates as being losers. I see the same people and wonder what sexual or physical abuse they suffered as children - or maybe as adults they encountered some other misfortune, perhaps having to see a loved one die slowly and painfully of cancer - and think to myself how lucky I am that I have never had to cope with such trauma. So is Seraphita a saint? Not bloody likely. I am as selfish, as self-centred, as narrowly concerned with my own well-being as anyone. The difference seems to be an ability to enter imaginatively into the suffering of others and appreciate what a raw deal they had. Of course, some shop-lifters and drug addicts are complete saddos and probably need a kick up the arse and told to get a grip. But many will have just been unlucky - and luck plays a dominant role in all our lives. Imagination is often dismissed as idle fancy but really it is a faculty in which we grasp real aspects of the world - just like perception and reason. But perhaps another cause for people to enjoy the misfortunes of others - complete strangers at that - is that they are unhappy (The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. - Thoreau) and seeing someone worse off than themselves gives them a boost. They suddenly see that their own lives could be even more miserable so for a brief moment they can feel
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Maharishi's was revolutionary and comprehensive thinking about global peace, like Elise M. Boulding (July 6, 1920 – June 24, 2010). Boulding offers Building a Global Civic Culture: Education for an Interdependent as a holistic first step towards solving international conflicts. She envisions a “global civic culture” as not simply made of nation states but as a global community of human beings. The book enforces the idea of thinking globally on a microcosmic level to facilitate solving problems in a peaceful international order. Boulding believed that a civic world order could become a reality, while acknowledging the strife that exists now. Building a Global Civic Culture is geared toward addressing the world’s problems and offering ideas for solutions. To create peace, Boulding believes that we must all become teachers and develop new learning communities. Everyone, old and young, will teach. Age groups will teach each other from their respective generations. How we perceive events unique to our generation shapes the lens through which we each see later events. We need to know what the world looks like to young and old alike. Boulding believes all will be teachers. In order to do this, we must learn to think outside of the box. Humans are intuitive, creative animals with cognitive-analytic reasoning abilities. We as human animals can grasp complex wholes from partial sets of facts. Boulding states that for most of us, education has been tied to the maxim “stick to the facts, no need for imaginative thinking.” We are taught in school that imagination and intuition are virtues of the daydreamer, not the true student. To the contrary, Boulding states we need to harness both intuition and imagination to solve world crises. Ultimately this book encourages us to become both teachers and problem solvers and includes exercises to lead the way. Elise M. Boulding was a Quaker sociologist [many credentials], and author credited as a major contributor to creating the academic discipline of Peace and Conflict Studies. Her holistic, multidimensional approach to peace research sets her apart as an important scholar and activist in multiple fields. Her written works span several decades and range from discussion of family as a foundation for peace, to Quaker spirituality to reinventing the international “global culture”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_M._Boulding#Building_a_Global_Civic_Culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_M._Boulding#Building_a_Global_Civic_Culture Evidently as practicing and experience meditators we are not alone in our experience around this. There are other mystics who see this too. -Buck in the Dome S3raphita , I feel you are being quite saintly in taking notice of the circumstance. Yep, it is just another sign of bad upbringing and the failure of our schools and society. Including fault of all those collectively standing around smirking who without initiative themselves or had the opportunity in their own lives to pursue the proper upbringing of virtue of spiritual life themselves and all those who who may know better will themselves not going out even on a limb to help anyone other than themselves in their own material world of widget worth. I sense saintly virtue in you that you would even notice the collective failure in this incident in this poor unlucky youth. The shoplifter is just another index showing the lack in our meissner-like collective transmission of collective consciousness of virtue in life. You are a teacher of the absolute wisdom in life are you not? A transmitter of spiritual virtue? It makes sense that you are sensitive to what was in that public scene. It is now the age of science and it is neigh time they put quiet-time meditation in to the training of all our children in their schools, if their families can not provide it for their own children if not just to save us all. To save us all from this vileness otherwise there is a place for public education in these sound values of life. All it takes is some quiet-time. It pisses me off too to watch the smirking jerks as you point to, like some even here who would actually stand in the way and fight what is such evident science and get in the way of the larger transmission of virtue in life. Yep, all those smirking jerks all watching the theatre of this youth being taken off should all be sending checks of donation as a matter of character to the David Lynch Foundation to help in the trenches in the fight against all that is vile in life. The teaching of and learning of the transcendental meditative state is the inalienable right to be guaranteed of every human being born in to this life. That is the first right that needs to be first guaranteed to every child growing up. Teaching of effective transcending meditation in all our schools is now the scientific standard of a proper education and should be all our public's policy regardless. I
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
Re You should have taken advantage of the confusion and lifted yourself a new TV.: Well, maybe I would have! - but I don't need to as I can afford to buy myself a new TV any time I want one. So could most of the smirkers I witnessed. That's what they don't register: it's easy to feel self-satisfied when you've got a loaded wallet. It's those who suffer from grinding poverty yet who would never consider turning to crime that have earned the right to be considered virtuous.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
S3raphita, to live in this world one has to have a certain armour. Would you have the weight of the suffering and missteps of everyone on Earth fall upon you all at once? Empathy requires a certain amount of detachment or it will paralyse. If you lock onto a situation so closely that you cannot do this, in those situations where in fact you could help, you may be unable to. The universe at large does not care in this way, it allows these things to happen, so we need to discover an understanding why to make sense of it, for ourselves, but that is for oneself, we cannot transform others if we do not get it together for ourselves, and even then we might fail. Maybe it has to do with our lack of integrity (except for Judy of course), that hidden away there is the fear we know that it could just as well have been us, that somewhere in us we could slip up in an analogous way, or maybe we wouldn't slip up, but because of circumstances beyond our individual reach we could get accused nonetheless.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
I empathize, but it is still wrong to steal. As much as injustice surrounds us, all we have left is our integrity. Same goes for all the smirking pricks, surrounding that unfortunate young man - shame on them.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
S3, It's a good thing that you empathize with the sufferings of others. But karma is unfathomable according to the Bhagavad Gita. Some people commit certain actions that bring bad karma into their lives, such as violating the laws of society. So, they must suffer the consequences of their actions. If it is within your nature, you can help others by teaching them how to help themselves. But sometimes some people are not in the proper state to learn. This is where charity comes in. So, you can help by giving some of your time and money. In the end, your good karma will return back to you in equal measure, or hopefully in many folds. As can be seen in jyotish, meditation is a form of charity. By practicing it, a person gets benefits in health, relationships and wealth.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Empathy versus cruelty
True, but just to make the point, even if I meditate regularly, it doesn't ever give me the excuse to be an asshole; teacher or students, alike. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote: S3, It's a good thing that you empathize with the sufferings of others. But karma is unfathomable according to the Bhagavad Gita. Some people commit certain actions that bring bad karma into their lives, such as violating the laws of society. So, they must suffer the consequences of their actions. If it is within your nature, you can help others by teaching them how to help themselves. But sometimes some people are not in the proper state to learn. This is where charity comes in. So, you can help by giving some of your time and money. In the end, your good karma will return back to you in equal measure, or hopefully in many folds. As can be seen in jyotish, meditation is a form of charity. By practicing it, a person gets benefits in health, relationships and wealth.
