Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[Vaj]

On Jan 1, 2010, at 4:13 AM, cardemaister wrote:

> I think it's better to avoid the curious Harvard-Kyoto -transliteration of 
> palatal ("Spanish" ñ) and velar (ng, as 
> in 'king', although e.g. some British people seem to 
> pronounce that *almost* like 'kink') nasals, namely J (e.g.
> 'jJa' for 'jña') and G ('aGga' for 'an.ga' [ang-ga]) respectively. 
> 
> The basic principle of H-K -tranliteration of
> Sanskrit seems to be to be able to present all Sanskrit
> sounds without diacritics. I guess nowadays that would be unnecessary
> with the advent of UTF encoding, but H-K was created
> several years ago.

It's a convention helpful for typing on a computer. In actual print 
publication, diacritical transliteration is still the standard.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[WillyTex]

Vaj wrote:
> Actually he missed the key point IMO:
> 
> Gyan- / Gna- (jJa), Gno- and Kno- (as 
> in to know") are all connected across a 
> huge array of culture and peoples.
>
Apparently the 'gnostic' philosophy 
came much later than the knowledge 
philosophies of India. According to 
what I've read, the Knowledge, 
'Sophia', is an Eastern religious 
concept.

According to Mircea Eliada, the yogic
enlightenment tradition is unique to
South Asia. 'Yoga' isn't found in any
other cultures. It seems to be an
indigenous practice, beginning with 
the first historical yogin, Shakya 
the Muni, in the fifth century BC.

The enlightenment tradition as a yogic
endeavor, isn't found in shamanism,
according to Eliade. Apparently there
are no parallels to Patanjali's Yoga 
Sutras (circa 200 BC) outside India.

The 'conciousness only' school of the
Vajrayana is termed the 'Yogacara' -
those who employ yoga (meditation) as 
the practical means to experience the 
Transcendental Consciousness.

The object of yoga is to transcend the
physical senses and to *isolate* the
Pure Consciousness by yogic means, 
that is, by following the Eightfold 
Path, etc.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[cardemaister]

> Gyan- / Gna- (jJa), Gno- and Kno- (as in to know") are all connected across a 
> huge array of culture and peoples.
>

It's kinda "interesting" that -- because in English 'k' has become
mute before 'n' at the beginning of a word -- 'know' nowadays is
a homophone with 'no'... :0

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 31, 2009, at 4:55 PM, cardemaister wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > > Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = Genesis = Janus = The
> > > begginning of creation (or from where things spring forth in life) =
> > > genes = genetic information = Gyanna = Consciousness.
> > > 
> > > Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - the universe = the wholeness
> > > of existence that is more than the sum of its parts = your own being =
> > > your self = your consciousness = the play and display of creative
> > > intelligence on the ground of existence = Vigyan.
> > > 
> > > OffWorld
> > >
> > 
> > Oh yeah, and for instance 'sinking' is a 'male sovereign ruler,
> > who breaks the divine or moral law, and stuff'... ;)
> 
> 
> Actually he missed the key point IMO:
> 
> Gyan- / Gna- (jJa),

I think it's better to avoid the curious Harvard-Kyoto -transliteration of 
palatal ("Spanish" ñ) and velar (ng, as 
in 'king', although e.g. some British people seem to 
pronounce that *almost* like 'kink') nasals, namely J (e.g.
'jJa' for 'jña') and G ('aGga' for 'an.ga' [ang-ga]) respectively. 

The basic principle of H-K -tranliteration of
Sanskrit seems to be to be able to present all Sanskrit
sounds without diacritics. I guess nowadays that would be unnecessary
with the advent of UTF encoding, but H-K was created
several years ago.



 Gno- and Kno- (as in to know") are all connected across a huge array of 
culture and peoples.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[Vaj]

On Dec 31, 2009, at 6:03 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Dec 31, 2009, at 4:55 PM, cardemaister wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = Genesis = Janus = The
> > > > begginning of creation (or from where things spring forth in life) =
> > > > genes = genetic information = Gyanna = Consciousness.
> > > > 
> > > > Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - the universe = the wholeness
> > > > of existence that is more than the sum of its parts = your own being =
> > > > your self = your consciousness = the play and display of creative
> > > > intelligence on the ground of existence = Vigyan.
> > > > 
> > > > OffWorld
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Oh yeah, and for instance 'sinking' is a 'male sovereign ruler,
> > > who breaks the divine or moral law, and stuff'... ;)
> > 
> > 
> > Actually he missed the key point IMO:
> > 
> > Gyan- / Gna- (jJa), Gno- and Kno- (as in to know") are all connected across 
> > a huge array of culture and peoples.>
> 
> Correct. But any child knows that Vaj. I said in the list that Gyan = 
> Knowledge. can't you read. Your cursory understanding whilst playing the 
> pretense of knowing all things Eastern is not fooling anyone.


Let's face it: you've had your ojas drained by one-to-many space-liliths. A 
space stoner.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2009, at 4:55 PM, cardemaister wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = Genesis = Janus =
The
> > > begginning of creation (or from where things spring forth in life)
=
> > > genes = genetic information = Gyanna = Consciousness.
> > >
> > > Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - the universe = the
wholeness
> > > of existence that is more than the sum of its parts = your own
being =
> > > your self = your consciousness = the play and display of creative
> > > intelligence on the ground of existence = Vigyan.
> > >
> > > OffWorld
> > >
> >
> > Oh yeah, and for instance 'sinking' is a 'male sovereign ruler,
> > who breaks the divine or moral law, and stuff'... ;)
>
>
> Actually he missed the key point IMO:
>
> Gyan- / Gna- (jJa), Gno- and Kno- (as in to know") are all connected
across a huge array of culture and peoples.>

Correct. But any child knows that Vaj. I said in the list that Gyan =
Knowledge. can't you read. Your cursory understanding whilst playing the
pretense of knowing all things Eastern is not fooling anyone.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = Genesis = Janus = The
> > begginning of creation (or from where things spring forth in life) =
> > genes = genetic information = Gyanna = Consciousness.
> >
> > Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - the universe = the
wholeness
> > of existence that is more than the sum of its parts = your own being
=
> > your self = your consciousness = the play and display of creative
> > intelligence on the ground of existence = Vigyan.
> >
> > OffWorld
> >
>
> Oh yeah, and for instance 'sinking' is a 'male sovereign ruler,
> who breaks the divine or moral law, and stuff'... ;)
>

One day you will explain something in a post. Until then, keep up your
mis-information that feeds Vaj's ignorance,

OffWorld

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[Vaj]

On Dec 31, 2009, at 4:55 PM, cardemaister wrote:

> 
> 
> > Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = Genesis = Janus = The
> > begginning of creation (or from where things spring forth in life) =
> > genes = genetic information = Gyanna = Consciousness.
> > 
> > Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - the universe = the wholeness
> > of existence that is more than the sum of its parts = your own being =
> > your self = your consciousness = the play and display of creative
> > intelligence on the ground of existence = Vigyan.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> >
> 
> Oh yeah, and for instance 'sinking' is a 'male sovereign ruler,
> who breaks the divine or moral law, and stuff'... ;)


Actually he missed the key point IMO:

Gyan- / Gna- (jJa), Gno- and Kno- (as in to know") are all connected across a 
huge array of culture and peoples.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[cardemaister]

> Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = Genesis = Janus = The
> begginning of creation (or from where things spring forth in life) =
> genes = genetic information = Gyanna = Consciousness.
> 
> Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - the universe = the wholeness
> of existence that is more than the sum of its parts = your own being =
> your self = your consciousness = the play and display of creative
> intelligence on the ground of existence = Vigyan.
> 
> OffWorld
>

Oh yeah, and for instance 'sinking' is a 'male sovereign ruler,
who breaks the divine or moral law, and stuff'... ;)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[WillyTex]

off_world_beings wrote:
> Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = 
> Genesis = Janus = The begginning of creation 
> (or from where things spring forth in life) =
> genes = genetic information = Gyanna = 
> Consciousness.
> 
All the members of the Advaita Vedanta tradition 
in India follow the Sri Vidya - and they all
worship Sri Saraswati, the 'Goddess of Knowledge'. 

The term 'vidya' means 'knowledge' in Sanskrit,
'transcendental' knowledge, and 'Sri' means 
'auspicious' = Auspicious Knowledge = Sri Vidya. 

> Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - 
> the universe = the wholeness of existence 
> that is more than the sum of its parts = your 
> own being = your self = your consciousness = 
> the play and display of creative intelligence 
> on the ground of existence = Vigyan.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , cardemaister 
wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , Vaj  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Dec 31, 2009, at 2:07 AM, cardemaister wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yikes. Thanks, card. No, it's not much help, but I
> > > > appreciate your going to the trouble.
> > > >
> > > > "aalaya" meaning "receptable" would make sense in
> > > > connection with the subconscious, in the sense of
> > > > a sort of storehouse, a place where you put stuff
> > > > that you don't want to have out in the open.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That sure makes sense! For that meaning, I would expect
> > > the order 'vijñaanaalaya' (vijñaana + aalaya). But taking
> > > 'aalaya' as a bahuvriihi compound or at least being an adjectival
> > > noun might solve that "problem". So I think you hit the bull's
eye.
> >
> >
> > Alaya can mean, but not necessarily imply the "all ground", like the
> > TIbetan kungzhi.
> >
>
> After I wrote the above, I realized that in *Buddhism* 'vijñaana'
> refers to consciousness, rather than mere knowledge, and stuff. That
> basically obliterates(?) most what I wrote in this thread... :)
>

It regers to consciousness in both cases Cardemaister:

Jaana = Gyan = Knowledge = Ganapati = Ganesh = Genesis = Janus = The
begginning of creation (or from where things spring forth in life) =
genes = genetic information = Gyanna = Consciousness.

Vi = to arise = to take flight = manifest - the universe = the wholeness
of existence that is more than the sum of its parts = your own being =
your self = your consciousness = the play and display of creative
intelligence on the ground of existence = Vigyan.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , Vaj  wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2009, at 12:58 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> > > Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> > > a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
> > >
> > > And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> > > noun?
> > >
> > > (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
> > >
> > > TIA...
> > >
> >
> > My guess is:
> >
> > "the abode (which abides) of the interweaving (web - "sutras") of
> > knoweldge"
> >
> > Or:
> >
> > "the Sacred Throne from which knowledge takes flight like a bird or
> > a herd of horses (arises)"
> >
> > Capitilization depends how you want to look at it.
> >
> > If "permanent" (abiding) in this case means 'immortal', then
> > capitalization seems appropriate for those who wish it
> > (capitalization in the West is given to those things that are
> > considered immortal or beyond mere mortals.) If "knowledge" is
> > sacred, then it could be capitailzed. I don't think Sanskrit
> > capitalizes, or has a significantly similar concept such as
> > capitalization (maybe only a vaguely similar concept - but not
> > really.)
> >
> > "Gyan" (as in "Vi Gya" above) is just ANY knowledge that is useful,
> > or it can mean "Pure Knowledge" which is cognized (from the
> > "Immortal Abode of Pure Consciousness"), but which also includes
> > and assimilates all useful knowledge (if it is actual knowledge
> > that is, and not fantasy or ignorance - for example, one-lifers who
> > believe in the irrational concept of one life and heaven or hell at
> > death - are the embodiment of ignorance, and that is not called
> > "knowledge"), so capitalizing the words Alaya ViGyan - "The Abiding
> > Abode from whence Pure Knowledge arises", or not doing so, becomes
> > irrelevant, or it is up to you.
> >
> > But that's just my take on it.
> >




> Dewd. Lay off the weed!
>

  Read it again, go step by step. For the first part "Alaya" in an
earlier post, you said the exact same thing as me, only you are too dumb
to see that it is the same thing (just like you can't see that Buddhism,
Vedic culture, and Tantra are all the same thing.)

The rest of the term you are lost. Your understanding of the term Vigyan
is non-existant.

OffWorld

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[Vaj]

On Dec 31, 2009, at 12:58 PM, off_world_beings wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
>
> And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> noun?
>
> (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
>
> TIA...
>

My guess is:

"the abode (which abides) of the interweaving (web - "sutras") of  
knoweldge"


Or:

"the Sacred Throne from which knowledge takes flight like a bird or  
a herd of horses (arises)"


Capitilization depends how you want to look at it.

If "permanent" (abiding) in this case means 'immortal', then  
capitalization seems appropriate for those who wish it  
(capitalization in the West is given to those things that are  
considered immortal or beyond mere mortals.) If "knowledge" is  
sacred, then it could be capitailzed. I don't think Sanskrit  
capitalizes, or has a significantly similar concept such as  
capitalization (maybe only a vaguely similar concept - but not  
really.)


"Gyan" (as in "Vi Gya" above) is just ANY knowledge that is useful,  
or it can mean "Pure Knowledge" which is cognized (from the  
"Immortal Abode of Pure Consciousness"), but which also includes  
and assimilates all useful knowledge (if it is actual knowledge  
that is, and not fantasy or ignorance - for example, one-lifers who  
believe in the irrational concept of one life and heaven or hell at  
death - are the embodiment of ignorance, and that is not called  
"knowledge"), so capitalizing the words Alaya ViGyan - "The Abiding  
Abode from whence Pure Knowledge arises", or not doing so, becomes  
irrelevant, or it is up to you.


But that's just my take on it.


Dewd. Lay off the weed!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
>
> And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> noun?
>
> (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
>
> TIA...
>


My guess is:

"the abode (which abides) of the interweaving (web - "sutras") of
knoweldge"

Or:

"the Sacred Throne from which knowledge takes flight like a bird or a
herd of horses (arises)"

Capitilization depends how you want to look at it.

If "permanent" (abiding) in this case means 'immortal', then
capitalization seems appropriate for those who wish it (capitalization
in the West is given to those things that are considered immortal or
beyond mere mortals.) If "knowledge" is sacred, then it could be
capitailzed. I don't think Sanskrit capitalizes, or has a significantly
similar concept such as capitalization (maybe only a vaguely similar
concept - but not really.)

"Gyan" (as in "Vi Gya" above) is just ANY knowledge that is useful, or
it can mean "Pure Knowledge" which is cognized (from the "Immortal Abode
of Pure Consciousness"), but which also includes and assimilates all
useful knowledge (if it is actual knowledge that is, and not fantasy or
ignorance - for example, one-lifers who believe in the irrational
concept of one life and heaven or hell at death - are the embodiment of
ignorance, and that is not called "knowledge"), so capitalizing the
words Alaya ViGyan - "The Abiding Abode from whence Pure Knowledge
arises", or not doing so, becomes irrelevant, or it is up to you.

But that's just my take on it.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[WillyTex]

> > "aalaya" meaning "receptable" would make sense in
> > connection with the subconscious, in the sense of
> > a sort of storehouse, a place where you put stuff
> > that you don't want to have out in the open.
> > 
Erik wrote:
> That sure makes sense! 
>
Not a 'receptable' - a receptacle, a 'store-house' of
consciousness, from the Sanskrit 'alaya' and 'vijnana',
consciousness.  

"The Lankavatara Sutra describes the tier of consciousness 
in the individual, culminating in a 'store house' 
consciousness (alaya-vijnana), which is the base of the 
individual's deepest awareness and his tie to the cosmic..."

Lankavatara Sutra:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lankavatara_Sutra

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[WillyTex]

Judy wrote:
> What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? 
>
The 'Alaya Vijnana' means the 'store-house consciousness',
proposed by the 'consciousness-only' school of Vajrayana
Buddhism, founded by Asanga and Vasubandhu. 

This school had a profound effect on the thinking of 
Gaudapadacharya, the founder of the Advaita Vedanta school. 
Maharishi has based his TM technique on the principle that 
'Pure Consciousness' is the Absolute Being, the Ultimate 
Reality.

This doctrine is closely associated with the 'Trika' 
system of Kashmere - it is a fact that the Maharishi was
very close to the late Swami Laksmanjoo, the last guru of
the Kashmere tantrism. 

"The Alaya-vijnana is a receptacle and container of the 
so-called 'seeds' (bija), or elementary units of past 
experiences."

Read more:

/FairfieldLife/message/213975

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[Vaj]

You can always double-check with the THL, which includes Tibetan,  
Sanskrit and Sanskrit yogic terms:


http://www.thlib.org/reference/translation-tool/


On Dec 31, 2009, at 9:18 AM, cardemaister wrote:


After I wrote the above, I realized that in *Buddhism* 'vijñaana'
refers to consciousness, rather than mere knowledge, and stuff. That
basically obliterates(?) most what I wrote in this thread... :)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 31, 2009, at 2:07 AM, cardemaister wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Yikes. Thanks, card. No, it's not much help, but I
> > > appreciate your going to the trouble.
> > >
> > > "aalaya" meaning "receptable" would make sense in
> > > connection with the subconscious, in the sense of
> > > a sort of storehouse, a place where you put stuff
> > > that you don't want to have out in the open.
> > >
> >
> > That sure makes sense! For that meaning, I would expect
> > the order 'vijñaanaalaya' (vijñaana + aalaya). But taking
> > 'aalaya' as a bahuvriihi compound or at least being an adjectival
> > noun might solve that "problem". So I think you hit the bull's eye.
> 
> 
> Alaya can mean, but not necessarily imply the "all ground", like the  
> TIbetan kungzhi.
> 

After I wrote the above, I realized that in *Buddhism* 'vijñaana'
refers to consciousness, rather than mere knowledge, and stuff. That
basically obliterates(?) most what I wrote in this thread... :)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[Vaj]

On Dec 31, 2009, at 2:07 AM, cardemaister wrote:




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> Yikes. Thanks, card. No, it's not much help, but I
> appreciate your going to the trouble.
>
> "aalaya" meaning "receptable" would make sense in
> connection with the subconscious, in the sense of
> a sort of storehouse, a place where you put stuff
> that you don't want to have out in the open.
>

That sure makes sense! For that meaning, I would expect
the order 'vijñaanaalaya' (vijñaana + aalaya). But taking
'aalaya' as a bahuvriihi compound or at least being an adjectival
noun might solve that "problem". So I think you hit the bull's eye.



Alaya can mean, but not necessarily imply the "all ground", like the  
TIbetan kungzhi.


http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/All-ground

All-ground

All-ground (kun gzhi)


alaya - all-ground. Literally, the 'foundation of all things.' The  
basis of mind and both pure and impure phenomena. This word has  
different meanings in different contexts and should be understood  
accordingly. Sometimes it is synonymous with buddha nature or  
dharmakaya, the recognition of which is the basis for all pure  
phenomena; other times, as in the case of the 'ignorant all-ground,'  
it refers to a neutral state of dualistic mind that has not been  
embraced by innate wakefulness and thus is the basis for samsaric  
experience [RY]




As the "All-ground consciousness" (vijanana)



It is only the "ignorant all-ground", co-emergent ignorance (Tib. kun  
gzhi ma rig pa'i cha) that would be covered under the clumsy western  
term "the subconsious", not necessarily the alaya-vijnana.  
Unfortunately Theosophy reeked havoc with a lot of yogic technical  
terms and this is one of them.




http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/all-ground_consciousness



All-ground consciousness
(Redirected from all-ground consciousness)
alayavijnana, all-ground consciousness [IW]
See also: All-ground
all-ground consciousness. Def. thun mong spyi'i mtshan nyid ni / ma  
bsgribs la lung du ma bstan pa'i gtso bo'i rnam shes gang zhig bag  
chags kyi bgo bzhir gyur pa rnam smin dang sa bon thams cad ji ltar  
rigs pa bsten zhing don gyi ngo bo rig pa; alaya-vijnana. (RY)
Vajra body endowed with the six elements. The six outer elements are  
the five elements and the element of mental objects (chos khams). The  
six inner elements are flesh, blood, warmth, breath, vacuities and  
the all-ground consciousness. The six secret elements are the nadis  
as the stable earth element, the syllable HANG at the crown of the  
head as the liquid water element, the A-stroke at the navel center as  
the warm fire element, the life-prana (srog gi rlung) as the moving  
wind element, the avadhuti as the void space element, and the all- 
ground wisdom as the cognizant wisdom element. This last category is  
the uncommon explanation. (RY)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> Yikes. Thanks, card. No, it's not much help, but I
> appreciate your going to the trouble.
> 
> "aalaya" meaning "receptable" would make sense in
> connection with the subconscious, in the sense of
> a sort of storehouse, a place where you put stuff
> that you don't want to have out in the open.
> 

That sure makes sense! For that meaning, I would expect
the order 'vijñaanaalaya' (vijñaana + aalaya). But taking
'aalaya' as a bahuvriihi compound or at least being an adjectival
noun might solve that "problem". So I think you hit the bull's eye.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[authfriend]

Thank you, John and emptybill!



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill"  wrote:
>
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Consciousnesses
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> > Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> > a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
> > 
> > And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> > noun?
> > 
> > (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
> > 
> > TIA...
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[emptybill]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Consciousnesses



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
> 
> And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> noun?
> 
> (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
> 
> TIA...
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[do.rflex]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote:
> >
> > What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> > Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> > a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
> >
> > And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> > noun?
> >
> > (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
> >
> > TIA...
> >
>
> It seems to be a compound noun, most probably not proper.
> The problem is, as I've told several times, that the length
> of the vowels is usually not indicated in that kind of "stuff".
>
> My guess is the capitalization in that case doesn't indicate
> the length of the vowel 'a', because 'Vigyan' also is capitalized.
> So, it's impossible to say, wether 'aalaya' or 'alaya' (much
> rarer word, because Cappeller doesn't have it at all) is meant.
>
> Monier Williams gives these meanings to those words:
>
>   alaya  m. ( %{lI}) , non-dissolution , permanence R. iii , 71 , 10
(v.l. %{an-aya}) ; (mfn.) restless S3is3. iv , 57.
>
> 2  Alaya  see %{A-lI}.
>
> 3  Alaya (= aalaya) m. and n. a house , dwelling ; a receptacle ,
asylum R. Ya1jn5. Katha1s. &c. ; (often ifc. e.g. %{himA7laya} , `" the
abode of snow. "')
>
> Although 'alaya' which seems to be the opposite of 'laya',
> seems to be a rare word, it might be the correct one
> in that context, though. If that's the case, perhaps
> it might be 'restless knowledge', because for some reason
> 'alaya' feels to me more like an adjective (mfn.) in
> that phrase...???
>
> I'm quite sure that by 'Vigyan' is meant 'vijñaana', which
> in Harvard-Kyoto transliteration scheme is written 'vijJAna' [sic!]
> (I believe 'gya' is the most popular pronunciation, at
> least in northern parts of India, of the
> "compound" consonant 'jña' which has its own character in
> devanaagarii script.)
>
> vijJAna  n. (ifc. f. %{A}) the act of distinguishing or discerning ,
understanding , comprehending , recognizing , intelligence , knowledge
AV. &c. &c. ; skill , proficiency , art Uttamac. ; science , doctrine
Sus3r. ; worldly or profane knowledge (opp. to %{jJAna} , `"
knñknowledge of the true nature of God "') Mn. MBh. &c. ; the
faculty of discernment or of right judgment MBh. R. &c. ; the organ of
knñknowledge (= %{manas}) BhP. ; (ifc.) the understanding of (a
particular meaning) , regarding as Ka1s3. on Pa1n2. 2-3 , 17 ; 66 &c. ;
(with Buddhists) consciousness or thought-faculty (one of the 5
constituent elements or Skandhas , also considered as one of the 6
elements or Dha1tus , and as one of the 12 links of the chain of
causation) Dharmas. 22 ; 42 ; 58 (cf. MWB. 102 ; 109) ; %{-kanda} m. N.
of a man Cat. ; %{-kAya} m. N. of a Buddhist wk. ; %{-kRtsna} n. one of
the 10 mystical exercises called Kr2itsnas Buddh. ; %{-kevala} mfn.
(with S3aivas) an individual soul to which only %{mala} adheres Sarvad.
; %{-kaumudI} f. N. of a female Buddhist Cat. ; %{-ghana4} m. pure
knowledge , nothing but intelligence S3Br. Sarvad. ; %{-taraMgiNI} f. N.
of wk. ; %{-tA} f. knowledge of (loc.) Ca1n2. ; %{-tArA7valI} f. N. of
wk. ; %{-tailagarbha} m. Alangium Decapetalum L. ; %{-dezana} m. a
Buddha L. ; %{-naukA} f. N. of sev. wks. ; %{-pati} m. a lord of
intelligence TUp. ; N. of one who has attained to a partic. degree of
emancipation Ba1dar. Sch. ; %{-pAda} m. N. of Vya1sa L. ; %{-bhaTTAraka}
m. %{-bhArata} m. %{-bhikSu} m. N. of scholars Cat. ; %{-bhairava} ,
%{-vo7ddyota-saMgraha} m. N. of wks. ; %{-ma4ya} mf(%{I})n. consisting
of knowledge or intelligence , all knñknowledge , full of
intellñintelligence S3Br. Up. &c. ; %{-ya-koSa} m. the sheath
consñconsisting of intellñintelligence , the intelligent sheath
(of the soul accord. to the Veda7nta) or the sheath caused by the
understanding being associated with the organs of perception MW. ;
%{-mAtRka} m. `" whose mother is knowledge "' , a Buddha L. ; %{-yati}
m. = %{-bhikSu} Cat. ; %{-yogin} m. = %{vijJAne7zvara} Col. ; %{-latikA}
f. %{-lalita} or %{-ta-tantra} n. N. of wks. ; %{-vat} mfn. endowed with
intelligence Up. ChUp. Sch. Katha1s. ; %{-vAda} m. the doctrine (of the
Yoga7ca1ras) that only intelligence has reality (not the objects
exterior to us) Ba1dar. Sch. ; %{-vAdin} mfn. one who affirms that only
intelligence has reality ; m. a Yoga7ca1ra Sarvad. Buddh. ;
%{-vinodinI-TIkA} f. %{-vilAsa} m. %{-zAstra} n. %{-zikSA} f.
%{saMjJA-prakaraNa} n. N. of wks. ; %{-nA7kala} mfn. = %{-na-kevala}
above Sarvad. ; %{-nA7cArya} m. N. of a teacher Cat. ; %{-nA7tman} m. N.
of an author ib. ; %{-nA7ntyA7yatana} n. (with Buddhists) N. of a world
Buddh. ; %{-nA7mRta} n. N. of Comm. ; %{-nA7zrama} m. = %{-nA7tman} Cat.
; %{-nA7stitva-mAtra-vAdin} mfn. = %{-na-vAdin} Ba1dar. Sch. ;
%{-nA7hAra} m. spiritual food as nourishment L. ; %{-ne7zvara} m. N. of
an author Cat. (%{-tantra} n. %{-vArttika} , n. N. of wks.) ;
%{-ne7zvarIya} n. a wk. of Vijn5a1ne7s3vara

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[authfriend]

Yikes. Thanks, card. No, it's not much help, but I
appreciate your going to the trouble.

"aalaya" meaning "receptable" would make sense in
connection with the subconscious, in the sense of
a sort of storehouse, a place where you put stuff
that you don't want to have out in the open.

But none of the meanings you list of "vigyan" seems
to fit. If I'm right about "storehouse" as a metaphor
for the subconscious, "vigyan" would probably be a
term that describes the contents of the storehouse
somehow. Seems to have to do with "knowledge" or
"intelligence" from your list, but there are so many
different shades of meaning; I have no idea which one
would be appropriate.

Apparently the phrase isn't in common use; the only
Web references to it I can find are its use by Osho.
Did he cobble it together himself?

The author of the book I'm working on (not an Osho
disciple) uses it in the sense of the place in our
psyches where we keep the aspirations and intentions
that we've more or less given up on, but that we can
still access and actualize if we take the proper
approach. I just don't think the Sanskrit does much 
for the reader without a translation.

Anyway, if you have any brainstorms, let me know. But
thanks again!

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister  wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> > Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> > a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
> > 
> > And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> > noun?
> > 
> > (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
> > 
> > TIA...
> >
> 
> It seems to be a compound noun, most probably not proper.
> The problem is, as I've told several times, that the length
> of the vowels is usually not indicated in that kind of "stuff".
> 
> My guess is the capitalization in that case doesn't indicate
> the length of the vowel 'a', because 'Vigyan' also is capitalized.
> So, it's impossible to say, wether 'aalaya' or 'alaya' (much
> rarer word, because Cappeller doesn't have it at all) is meant.
> 
> Monier Williams gives these meanings to those words:
> 
>alaya  m. ( %{lI}) , non-dissolution , permanence R. iii , 71 , 10 
> (v.l. %{an-aya}) ; (mfn.) restless S3is3. iv , 57.
> 
> 2 Alaya   see %{A-lI}.
> 
> 3 Alaya (= aalaya)m. and n. a house , dwelling ; a receptacle , 
> asylum R. Ya1jn5. Katha1s. &c. ; (often ifc. e.g. %{himA7laya} , `" the abode 
> of snow. "') 
> 
> Although 'alaya' which seems to be the opposite of 'laya',
> seems to be a rare word, it might be the correct one
> in that context, though. If that's the case, perhaps
> it might be 'restless knowledge', because for some reason
> 'alaya' feels to me more like an adjective (mfn.) in 
> that phrase...???
> 
> I'm quite sure that by 'Vigyan' is meant 'vijñaana', which
> in Harvard-Kyoto transliteration scheme is written 'vijJAna' [sic!]
> (I believe 'gya' is the most popular pronunciation, at 
> least in northern parts of India, of the
> "compound" consonant 'jña' which has its own character in
> devanaagarii script.)
> 
> vijJAna   n. (ifc. f. %{A}) the act of distinguishing or discerning , 
> understanding , comprehending , recognizing , intelligence , knowledge AV. 
> &c. &c. ; skill , proficiency , art Uttamac. ; science , doctrine Sus3r. ; 
> worldly or profane knowledge (opp. to %{jJAna} , `" knñknowledge of the true 
> nature of God "') Mn. MBh. &c. ; the faculty of discernment or of right 
> judgment MBh. R. &c. ; the organ of knñknowledge (= %{manas}) BhP. ; (ifc.) 
> the understanding of (a particular meaning) , regarding as Ka1s3. on Pa1n2. 
> 2-3 , 17 ; 66 &c. ; (with Buddhists) consciousness or thought-faculty (one of 
> the 5 constituent elements or Skandhas , also considered as one of the 6 
> elements or Dha1tus , and as one of the 12 links of the chain of causation) 
> Dharmas. 22 ; 42 ; 58 (cf. MWB. 102 ; 109) ; %{-kanda} m. N. of a man Cat. ; 
> %{-kAya} m. N. of a Buddhist wk. ; %{-kRtsna} n. one of the 10 mystical 
> exercises called Kr2itsnas Buddh. ; %{-kevala} mfn. (with S3aivas) an 
> individual soul to which only %{mala} adheres Sarvad. ; %{-kaumudI} f. N. of 
> a female Buddhist Cat. ; %{-ghana4} m. pure knowledge , nothing but 
> intelligence S3Br. Sarvad. ; %{-taraMgiNI} f. N. of wk. ; %{-tA} f. knowledge 
> of (loc.) Ca1n2. ; %{-tArA7valI} f. N. of wk. ; %{-tailagarbha} m. Alangium 
> Decapetalum L. ; %{-dezana} m. a Buddha L. ; %{-naukA} f. N. of sev. wks. ; 
> %{-pati} m. a lord of intelligence TUp. ; N. of one who has attained to a 
> partic. degree of emancipation Ba1dar. Sch. ; %{-pAda} m. N. of Vya1sa L. ; 
> %{-bhaTTAraka} m. %{-bhArata} m. %{-bhikSu} m. N. of scholars Cat. ; 
> %{-bhairava} , %{-vo7ddyota-saMgraha} m. N. of wks. ; %{-ma4ya} mf(%{I})n. 
> consisting of knowledge or intelligence , all knñknowledge , full of 
> intellñintelli

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit help, please

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> What does the Sanskrit phrase "Alaya Vigyan" mean? Apparently
> Osho used it to refer to the subconscious, but I'm looking for
> a more literal translation; can't find anything on the Web.
> 
> And should both terms be capitalized? Is the phrase a proper
> noun?
> 
> (This is for an editing gig I'm working on.)
> 
> TIA...
>

It seems to be a compound noun, most probably not proper.
The problem is, as I've told several times, that the length
of the vowels is usually not indicated in that kind of "stuff".

My guess is the capitalization in that case doesn't indicate
the length of the vowel 'a', because 'Vigyan' also is capitalized.
So, it's impossible to say, wether 'aalaya' or 'alaya' (much
rarer word, because Cappeller doesn't have it at all) is meant.

Monier Williams gives these meanings to those words:

 alaya  m. ( %{lI}) , non-dissolution , permanence R. iii , 71 , 10 
(v.l. %{an-aya}) ; (mfn.) restless S3is3. iv , 57.

2   Alaya   see %{A-lI}.

3   Alaya (= aalaya)m. and n. a house , dwelling ; a receptacle , 
asylum R. Ya1jn5. Katha1s. &c. ; (often ifc. e.g. %{himA7laya} , `" the abode 
of snow. "') 

Although 'alaya' which seems to be the opposite of 'laya',
seems to be a rare word, it might be the correct one
in that context, though. If that's the case, perhaps
it might be 'restless knowledge', because for some reason
'alaya' feels to me more like an adjective (mfn.) in 
that phrase...???

I'm quite sure that by 'Vigyan' is meant 'vijñaana', which
in Harvard-Kyoto transliteration scheme is written 'vijJAna' [sic!]
(I believe 'gya' is the most popular pronunciation, at 
least in northern parts of India, of the
"compound" consonant 'jña' which has its own character in
devanaagarii script.)

vijJAna n. (ifc. f. %{A}) the act of distinguishing or discerning , 
understanding , comprehending , recognizing , intelligence , knowledge AV. &c. 
&c. ; skill , proficiency , art Uttamac. ; science , doctrine Sus3r. ; worldly 
or profane knowledge (opp. to %{jJAna} , `" knñknowledge of the true nature of 
God "') Mn. MBh. &c. ; the faculty of discernment or of right judgment MBh. R. 
&c. ; the organ of knñknowledge (= %{manas}) BhP. ; (ifc.) the understanding 
of (a particular meaning) , regarding as Ka1s3. on Pa1n2. 2-3 , 17 ; 66 &c. ; 
(with Buddhists) consciousness or thought-faculty (one of the 5 constituent 
elements or Skandhas , also considered as one of the 6 elements or Dha1tus , 
and as one of the 12 links of the chain of causation) Dharmas. 22 ; 42 ; 58 
(cf. MWB. 102 ; 109) ; %{-kanda} m. N. of a man Cat. ; %{-kAya} m. N. of a 
Buddhist wk. ; %{-kRtsna} n. one of the 10 mystical exercises called Kr2itsnas 
Buddh. ; %{-kevala} mfn. (with S3aivas) an individual soul to which only 
%{mala} adheres Sarvad. ; %{-kaumudI} f. N. of a female Buddhist Cat. ; 
%{-ghana4} m. pure knowledge , nothing but intelligence S3Br. Sarvad. ; 
%{-taraMgiNI} f. N. of wk. ; %{-tA} f. knowledge of (loc.) Ca1n2. ; 
%{-tArA7valI} f. N. of wk. ; %{-tailagarbha} m. Alangium Decapetalum L. ; 
%{-dezana} m. a Buddha L. ; %{-naukA} f. N. of sev. wks. ; %{-pati} m. a lord 
of intelligence TUp. ; N. of one who has attained to a partic. degree of 
emancipation Ba1dar. Sch. ; %{-pAda} m. N. of Vya1sa L. ; %{-bhaTTAraka} m. 
%{-bhArata} m. %{-bhikSu} m. N. of scholars Cat. ; %{-bhairava} , 
%{-vo7ddyota-saMgraha} m. N. of wks. ; %{-ma4ya} mf(%{I})n. consisting of 
knowledge or intelligence , all knñknowledge , full of intellñintelligence 
S3Br. Up. &c. ; %{-ya-koSa} m. the sheath consñconsisting of 
intellñintelligence , the intelligent sheath (of the soul accord. to the 
Veda7nta) or the sheath caused by the understanding being associated with the 
organs of perception MW. ; %{-mAtRka} m. `" whose mother is knowledge "' , a 
Buddha L. ; %{-yati} m. = %{-bhikSu} Cat. ; %{-yogin} m. = %{vijJAne7zvara} 
Col. ; %{-latikA} f. %{-lalita} or %{-ta-tantra} n. N. of wks. ; %{-vat} mfn. 
endowed with intelligence Up. ChUp. Sch. Katha1s. ; %{-vAda} m. the doctrine 
(of the Yoga7ca1ras) that only intelligence has reality (not the objects 
exterior to us) Ba1dar. Sch. ; %{-vAdin} mfn. one who affirms that only 
intelligence has reality ; m. a Yoga7ca1ra Sarvad. Buddh. ; %{-vinodinI-TIkA} 
f. %{-vilAsa} m. %{-zAstra} n. %{-zikSA} f. %{saMjJA-prakaraNa} n. N. of wks. ; 
%{-nA7kala} mfn. = %{-na-kevala} above Sarvad. ; %{-nA7cArya} m. N. of a 
teacher Cat. ; %{-nA7tman} m. N. of an author ib. ; %{-nA7ntyA7yatana} n. (with 
Buddhists) N. of a world Buddh. ; %{-nA7mRta} n. N. of Comm. ; %{-nA7zrama} m. 
= %{-nA7tman} Cat. ; %{-nA7stitva-mAtra-vAdin} mfn. = %{-na-vAdin} Ba1dar. Sch. 
; %{-nA7hAra} m. spiritual food as nourishment L. ; %{-ne7zvara} m. N. of an 
author Cat. (%{-tantra} n. %{-vArttika} , n. N. of wks.) ; %{-ne7zvarIya} n. a 
wk. of Vijn5a1ne7s3vara Cat. ; %{-nai9ka-skandha-vAda} m. = %{-na-vAda} above 
Ba1dar. Sch.

-

Sorr