[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam Some of us prefer to live our own lives, the way we choose to live them. I wish you well with living yours the way other people tell you to live it. I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die. So let me live my life the way I want to. - Jimi Hendrix - Axis, Bold as Love Om yeah, unalienable Freedom an liberty `til you hurt somebody else. And those non-meditators! The science is pretty evident we really got to look out for them for every one's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Theirs included. We simply and directly got to do something about non-meditators that non-meditation in the world. In the long progression of humankind, this comes the noble cause that has come to hand in these times. Science says. JGD. Bring it to pass, -D in FF Maybe the non meditating people have their own system that is not official and will be ok anyway?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: Stehphen Hawking is taking another approach to this inquiry. He favors a model of the universe that follows all the laws of physics. But like a novel that begs for more questions, he concludes that one cannot ask what happened before the Big Bang because nothing existed before then in scientific terms. Vielleicht kann er nix Heisenbergische Unsicherheit ertragen? LOL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_re...@... wrote: (Caveat: I'm not arguing that Hagelin's ideas connecting theoretical physics with TM are correct, only that Barry's ideas about Hagelin are INcorrect, especially his puerile analogy with Dan Brown.) All physicists would agree with Barry on that point. I'm pretty sure they would, at least working physicists. The only ones who have any respect for Hagelin probably appeared with him on the What the bleep... film. :-) There is something that happens to supposed scientists when they catch the New Age disease or the religion disease or the bhakti disease, whatever you choose to call it. They become believers in whatever their spiritual or occult trip is, and science goes right out the window EXCEPT as a mechanism for them to get strokes from the religion or teacher they've become enamored with. Judy wouldn't know about this. She never got any closer to the TM movement than to dip a toe in so she could say, I've been there. But she never *has* been there. She never had what it took to become a TM teacher, or to commit to trying to spread TM. Above all, she doesn't understand the fanatical desire to please the teacher that people who *do* commit to such spiritual groups feel. They will do the stupidest things on earth, just to be patted on the head by the teacher. Hagelin is NOT a scientist. He stopped being one many, many years ago. What he is is a religious fanatic. And pretty much anyone who still *is* a scientist can see what Hagelin has become. Like jr_esq, science and the desire to find out no longer drive Hagelin. He is driven by the desire to prove that the vedic ideas Maharishi gave to him are correct or true. So he attempts to bend science to fit these ideas. It's a shitty fit. But he gets away with it because the people in the audiences he speaks to are trying just as hard as he is to do the same thing. Like jr, they BELIEVE completely that the vedic seers knew it all, and that modern thinkers and modern science are merely trying to catch up. That's ridiculous, of course, but so are they. Religious fanatics always are, whether it's Christian fundamentalism or Hindu fundamentalism.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Stehphen Hawking is taking another approach to this inquiry. He favors a model of the universe that follows all the laws of physics. But like a novel that begs for more questions, he concludes that one cannot ask what happened before the Big Bang because nothing existed before then in scientific terms. Vielleicht kann er nix Heisenbergische Unsicherheit ertragen? LOL! Can you translate to English, please?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_reply@ wrote: (Caveat: I'm not arguing that Hagelin's ideas connecting theoretical physics with TM are correct, only that Barry's ideas about Hagelin are INcorrect, especially his puerile analogy with Dan Brown.) All physicists would agree with Barry on that point. I'm pretty sure they would, at least working physicists. The only ones who have any respect for Hagelin probably appeared with him on the What the bleep... film. :-) There is something that happens to supposed scientists when they catch the New Age disease or the religion disease or the bhakti disease, whatever you choose to call it. They become believers in whatever their spiritual or occult trip is, and science goes right out the window EXCEPT as a mechanism for them to get strokes from the religion or teacher they've become enamored with. Judy wouldn't know about this. She never got any closer to the TM movement than to dip a toe in so she could say, I've been there. But she never *has* been there. She never had what it took to become a TM teacher, or to commit to trying to spread TM. Above all, she doesn't understand the fanatical desire to please the teacher that people who *do* commit to such spiritual groups feel. They will do the stupidest things on earth, just to be patted on the head by the teacher. Hagelin is NOT a scientist. He stopped being one many, many years ago. What he is is a religious fanatic. And pretty much anyone who still *is* a scientist can see what Hagelin has become. Like jr_esq, science and the desire to find out no longer drive Hagelin. He is driven by the desire to prove that the vedic ideas Maharishi gave to him are correct or true. So he attempts to bend science to fit these ideas. It's a shitty fit. But he gets away with it because the people in the audiences he speaks to are trying just as hard as he is to do the same thing. Like jr, they BELIEVE completely that the vedic seers knew it all, and that modern thinkers and modern science are merely trying to catch up. That's ridiculous, of course, but so are they. Religious fanatics always are, whether it's Christian fundamentalism or Hindu fundamentalism. Barry, This guy speaks your language. Maybe he can be your next guru. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h1E3YJMKfA
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Like jr_esq, science and the desire to find out no longer drive Hagelin. He is driven by the desire to prove that the vedic ideas Maharishi gave to him are correct or true. So he attempts to bend science to fit these ideas. It's a shitty fit. But he gets away with it because the people in the audiences he speaks to are trying just as hard as he is to do the same thing. Like jr, they BELIEVE completely that the vedic seers knew it all, and that modern thinkers and modern science are merely trying to catch up. That's ridiculous, of course, but so are they. Religious fanatics always are, whether it's Christian fundamentalism or Hindu fundamentalism. Barry, This guy speaks your language. Maybe he can be your next guru. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h1E3YJMKfA John, What you simply do not understand -- on the level of not being able to comprehend -- is that some of us are not *looking* for gurus. Only the feeble-minded and the easily-led are looking for gurus. I wish you well with your search. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Stehphen Hawking is taking another approach to this inquiry. He favors a model of the universe that follows all the laws of physics. But like a novel that begs for more questions, he concludes that one cannot ask what happened before the Big Bang because nothing existed before then in scientific terms. Vielleicht kann er nix Heisenbergische Unsicherheit ertragen? LOL! Can you translate to English, please? That's prolly untranslatable, but what I intended to say was, that perhaps Hawking, like Einstein, can't stand the quantum uncertainty, or whatever.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Like jr_esq, science and the desire to find out no longer drive Hagelin. He is driven by the desire to prove that the vedic ideas Maharishi gave to him are correct or true. So he attempts to bend science to fit these ideas. It's a shitty fit. But he gets away with it because the people in the audiences he speaks to are trying just as hard as he is to do the same thing. Like jr, they BELIEVE completely that the vedic seers knew it all, and that modern thinkers and modern science are merely trying to catch up. That's ridiculous, of course, but so are they. Religious fanatics always are, whether it's Christian fundamentalism or Hindu fundamentalism. Barry, This guy speaks your language. Maybe he can be your next guru. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h1E3YJMKfA John, What you simply do not understand -- on the level of not being able to comprehend -- is that some of us are not *looking* for gurus. Only the feeble-minded and the easily-led are looking for gurus. I wish you well with your search. :-) By the way you handle yourself here on this forum, I just thought you needed one.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Like jr_esq, science and the desire to find out no longer drive Hagelin. He is driven by the desire to prove that the vedic ideas Maharishi gave to him are correct or true. So he attempts to bend science to fit these ideas. It's a shitty fit. But he gets away with it because the people in the audiences he speaks to are trying just as hard as he is to do the same thing. Like jr, they BELIEVE completely that the vedic seers knew it all, and that modern thinkers and modern science are merely trying to catch up. That's ridiculous, of course, but so are they. Religious fanatics always are, whether it's Christian fundamentalism or Hindu fundamentalism. Barry, This guy speaks your language. Maybe he can be your next guru. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h1E3YJMKfA John, What you simply do not understand -- on the level of not being able to comprehend -- is that some of us are not *looking* for gurus. Only the feeble-minded and the easily-led are looking for gurus. I wish you well with your search. :-) By the way you handle yourself here on this forum, I just thought you needed one. I can understand why you'd think that. Live your entire life believing that you need someone to tell you what to think and how to act, and I can see how you'd come to believe that everyone needed that. Some of us prefer to live our own lives, the way we choose to live them. I wish you well with living yours the way other people tell you to live it.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam Some of us prefer to live our own lives, the way we choose to live them. I wish you well with living yours the way other people tell you to live it. I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die. So let me live my life the way I want to. - Jimi Hendrix - Axis, Bold as Love
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam Some of us prefer to live our own lives, the way we choose to live them. I wish you well with living yours the way other people tell you to live it. I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die. So let me live my life the way I want to. - Jimi Hendrix - Axis, Bold as Love Om yeah, unalienable Freedom an liberty `til you hurt somebody else. And those non-meditators! The science is pretty evident we really got to look out for them for every one's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Theirs included. We simply and directly got to do something about non-meditators that non-meditation in the world. In the long progression of humankind, this comes the noble cause that has come to hand in these times. Science says. JGD. Bring it to pass, -D in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--For the most part, people would be better off as non-meditators . Waking them up would be like disturbing those Matrix people whose bodies were unconscious sources of food for the Aliens, while their holographic replicas lived in the make-believe world. It's easier just to let the Matrix people languish in their deathbeds rather than attempting to disturb their ignorance. Waaayyy...too much trouble. I wouldn't dare tell anybody about TM or other such meditation techniques. (might disturb their world). Why do that? - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam Some of us prefer to live our own lives, the way we choose to live them. I wish you well with living yours the way other people tell you to live it. I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die. So let me live my life the way I want to. - Jimi Hendrix - Axis, Bold as Love Om yeah, unalienable Freedom an liberty `til you hurt somebody else. And those non-meditators! The science is pretty evident we really got to look out for them for every one's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Theirs included. We simply and directly got to do something about non-meditators that non-meditation in the world. In the long progression of humankind, this comes the noble cause that has come to hand in these times. Science says. JGD. Bring it to pass, -D in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John Hagelin -- the physicist so brilliant that the only place he can publish is YouTube. :-) [http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/sea0215l.jpg]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk Cool. It's the bubble diagram revisited. John goes back to basics, the bubble diagram, and boils it all down, explaining complex concepts, simply and elegantly. The beauty of the bubble diagram is that it makes transcending, an abstract concept, more concrete without over intellectualizing the TM experience, a simple, natural, innocent process. Maharishi did his best to keep it simple, knowing that it is just about impossible for some folks to do. After all, how could anything so simple be any good? The over-thinker thinks, This is TOO simple, let's add some bells and whistles to make it more interesting! And, so go the lemmings, over the cliff. Tying one's intellect into knots over such a simple process is counterproductive. KISS. IMO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John's problem is that he never strays outside his comfort zone. He only ever gives talks to non-physicists who don't know anything much about the subject matter. If he had the courage to make some presentations at physics conferences (if they'd accept his abstracts), then they'd rip him to pieces and he'd have to start thinking deeply about how to defend his ideas. Because no one ever questions him, then he never has to think, and because he never has to think then he just goes round and round on an endless loop of new-age TMO happy clappy speak. He's a bright guy, if he ever gets into a situation where he has to do some deep thinking he might get somewhere. But endless repetitions of flawed arguments to zombie audiences isn't going to get him there. I actually wonder if the renewed intensity of him making recordings of his lectures isn't due to some deep seated awareness that he's got things wrong and that he's trying to reconcile the cognitive dissonance by getting frantic about making people believe him. (cf When prophecies fail look it up). For a physicist the cognitive dissonance of believing in the ME and at the same time knowing that if the ME was real it would have to violate the principle of energy conservation must be pretty severe. I guess it helps him to stop thinking about it by standing up and talking to zombified audiences who just nod appreciatively and say this is such beautiful knowledge. He could almost convince himself he's right, until he gets a pencil and paper out and does some calculating. It'll be interesting to see how he handles whatever results come out of CERN in the next few years.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John's problem is that he never strays outside his comfort zone. He only ever gives talks to non-physicists who don't know anything much about the subject matter. If he had the courage to make some presentations at physics conferences (if they'd accept his abstracts), then they'd rip him to pieces and he'd have to start thinking deeply about how to defend his ideas. Because no one ever questions him, then he never has to think, and because he never has to think then he just goes round and round on an endless loop of new-age TMO happy clappy speak. Hagelin is to science what Dan Brown is to literature.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John's problem is that he never strays outside his comfort zone. He only ever gives talks to non-physicists who don't know anything much about the subject matter. FWIW, what he's saying in this clip isn't some weird idea he dreamed up himself. The quantum foam concept came from John Wheeler back in the 1950s. The notion that the bubbles give birth to universes was proposed by physicist Andrei Linde in the 1990s. It's one of several competing approaches in the field of theoretical physics. In that exotic context, it's mainstream. It isn't Hagelin's physics that physicists have a problem with; it's the connections he makes to consciousness and the Vedic literature. On the other hand, there's a bunch of highly credentialed (non-TM) physicists who are convinced there are very strong connections to be made between physics principles and consciousness. That's not mainstream yet, but it's getting there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John's problem is that he never strays outside his comfort zone. He only ever gives talks to non-physicists who don't know anything much about the subject matter. If he had the courage to make some presentations at physics conferences (if they'd accept his abstracts), then they'd rip him to pieces and he'd have to start thinking deeply about how to defend his ideas. A bit like Satyendra Nath Bose was ripped into pieces? :D
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
TurquoiseB wrote: Hagelin is to science what Dan Brown is to literature. Yeah, Hagelin can't hold a candle to Fred Lenz! At age 48, Lenz took an overdose of Valium and jumped into a lake. His body was found two days later with a dog collar around his neck. John Hagelin was honored with a Kilby International Award for his work in particle physics leading to the development of super-string grand unified field theories.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:08 AM, WillyTex wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: Hagelin is to science what Dan Brown is to literature. Yeah, Hagelin can't hold a candle to Fred Lenz! At age 48, Lenz took an overdose of Valium and jumped into a lake. His body was found two days later with a dog collar around his neck. John Hagelin was honored with a Kilby International Award for his work in particle physics leading to the development of super-string grand unified field theories. He also received the prestigious Ig Nobel prize for his contributions to the Vedic pseudoscience known as the Maharishi Effect. Very appropriately named since it does nothing. I'm really hoping to see some of his work make it into The Journal of Scientific Exploration, like his other colleagues in the TMO have. Perhaps a collaboration with J.Z. Knight is in the works? One can only hope.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:08 AM, WillyTex wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: Hagelin is to science what Dan Brown is to literature. John Hagelin was honored with a Kilby International Award for his work in particle physics leading to the development of super-string grand unified field theories. He also received the prestigious Ig Nobel prize for his contributions to the Vedic pseudoscience known as the Maharishi Effect. Very appropriately named since it does nothing. I'm really hoping to see some of his work make it into The Journal of Scientific Exploration, like his other colleagues in the TMO have. Perhaps a collaboration with J.Z. Knight is in the works? One can only hope. I still think my analogy to Dan Brown is apt. Brown actually (and I know this defies belief) *taught* creative writing before he got famous. Then he decided to get famous instead. Dan Brown is famous for doing just enough research to sound plausible to dumb readers, while missing the big picture entirely. For example, he carefully poured over maps of Paris so he could write the scenes of his characters escaping from the Louvre and use all the right street names. Of course, he didn't learn to actually *read* the maps, and in the book had his characters driving the wrong way on one-way streets. He managed to get a tour of CERN so that he could write convincingly about it, and then made so many mistakes describing both the place and the things being studied there that CERN barred him from ever being allowed access to any information about the project that he could use in a novel again. Dan Brown takes popular legends (New Age or older), learns just enough about them to weave them into one of his shitty plots, and doesn't bother to learn any more. As far as I can tell, that is what Hagelin has done with physics. He may have started well. But then the quest for fame -- and, in his case, guru worship, and the desire to be noticed and favored by Maharishi -- took hold of him, and he stopped trying to be true to physics, or to reality. He started saying the kinds of things that would get him strokes from Maharishi, just as Dan Brown stopped trying to get things right, and started writing the things that would sell the most books. Brown didn't *care* about telling the truth. He never had to, because on the whole his readers aren't smart enough to know the truth or even want to. They're the literary counterparts of Raunchydog today, dumb and proud of it. Well, Hagelin no longer cares about being true to science, either, and for the same reasons. He knows that he has a soft, cushy salary for the rest of his life saying the same things over and over again to a TM audience. He no longer cares about being true to science because he knows that he's speaking to an audience who doesn't care about science at all, only what they can convinced to believe science proves about their superstitious neoHindu beliefs. The only real difference I see between Dan Brown and John Hagelin is that many people on the planet would know Dan Brown's name if they heard it. Almost no one on the planet would recognize Hagelin's name. And the saddest part of all of this is that being that kind of big fish in a small pond was ENOUGH for John Hagelin. Getting paid a cushy salary, getting strokes from Maharishi while he was alive, getting lots of pussy from the TM groupies -- this was ENOUGH for him. How pathetic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
FWIW, what he's saying in this clip isn't some weird idea he dreamed up himself. The quantum foam concept came from John Wheeler back in the 1950s. The notion that the bubbles give birth to universes was proposed by physicist Andrei Linde in the 1990s. It's one of several competing approaches in the field of theoretical physics. In that exotic context, it's mainstream. It isn't Hagelin's physics that physicists have a problem with; it's the connections he makes to consciousness and the Vedic literature. There are interesting issues which JH could make some headway with except that he never has to think. All he ever does is talk in superficial terms to people who don't know much about the subject. If you look closely at what he's saying then all he's doing is endlessly shuffling a pack of cards with various new agey or TMO speak sayings on them. He never gets to the point of being able to calculate something or prove something. On the other hand, there's a bunch of highly credentialed (non-TM) physicists who are convinced there are very strong connections to be made between physics principles and consciousness. That's not mainstream yet, but it's getting there. Yes but they present arguments in a very meticulous way appropriate for high level physicists. In any case, space time foam is done away with in string theory, so if he's arguing the case for space-time-foam being connected to TC then he's also inadvertently arguing that string theory is wrong and therefore his connections between Vedic literature and string theory are an exact correlation between VL and a theory which is wrong. But because no one ever argues with him he never has to stop and think these things through.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
Hagelin is to science what Dan Brown is to literature. You rate him that highly?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: FWIW, what he's saying in this clip isn't some weird idea he dreamed up himself. The quantum foam concept came from John Wheeler back in the 1950s... Is this what the Nobel Physics Prize of 1957 (Lee and Yang) is all about? Seething mass of particles with a + charge or a - charge, springing into existance and then decaying almost immedately? Remember Hal Puthoff's remark that if you could get all the energy out of the air occupied by a tea cup, you could boil the Altantic ocean dry, and have enough left to do the same to the others - and several times over. http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smith.pdf http://www.cheniere.org I have it on good authority from a siddha in London that people are starting to get results. A bit like the Californian gold rush. Uns.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
John Hagelin was honored with a Kilby International Award for his work in particle physics leading to the development of super-string grand unified field theories. Which doesn't mean anything. He's now a salesman for an idea (the ME) which requires abandoning conservation of energy. I'll quote from Peter Woit's book about string theory Not even wrong where he mentions the case of Hagelin as an example of a bright guy gone mad Virtually every theoretical physicist in the world rejects all of this as nonsense and the work of a crackpot, but Hagelin's case shows that crackpots can have PhDs from the Harvard Physics Department ...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_re...@... wrote: John Hagelin was honored with a Kilby International Award for his work in particle physics leading to the development of super-string grand unified field theories. Which doesn't mean anything. He's now a salesman for an idea (the ME) which requires abandoning conservation of energy. I hate to give Donald Rumsfeld credit for anything, but the Conservation of Energy isn't worth a piss in a bucket unless you include in the equations all forms of energy you know about, AND all forms of energy you know that you don't know about AND all forms of energy you don't know you know about AND all forms of energy that you don't know that you don't know about. Remember that when you use the Law of Conservation of energy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip Dan Brown takes popular legends (New Age or older), learns just enough about them to weave them into one of his shitty plots, and doesn't bother to learn any more. As far as I can tell, that is what Hagelin has done with physics. Naah. Hagelin has made significant contributions to mainstream theoretical physics; Dan Brown has never made any significant contribution to literature. That alone blows the analogy. Hagelin learned just enough about physics to graduate summa cum laude from Darthmouth, win a physics fellowship to and get his master's and Ph.D. from Harvard, become a researcher at CERN and SLAC, and publish 70 papers in mainstream physics journals. He continued to contribute to theoretical physics in collaboration with some of his earlier colleagues after he was appointed to MIU. He learned TM in 1970 and became a TM teacher after his first year at Dartmouth, so his interest in physics and his interest in TM coexisted well before he joined MIU. He may have started well. But then the quest for fame -- and, in his case, guru worship, and the desire to be noticed and favored by Maharishi -- took hold of him, and he stopped trying to be true to physics, or to reality. He started saying the kinds of things that would get him strokes from Maharishi, just as Dan Brown stopped trying to get things right, and started writing the things that would sell the most books. (When, exactly, was Dan Brown ever actually trying to get things right? Below Barry claims he *never* cared about the truth. Which is it?) Barry's take on Hagelin is based on his conviction that because *Barry's* view of How It All Works is the correct one, Hagelin's view isn't True to Science. Therefore, Hagelin couldn't possibly really believe the view he promotes and is only after money, fame, and strokes. There's nothing sadder in someone who thinks of himself as a creative writer than a lack of imagination, the inability to see things from another's perspective. (Caveat: I'm not arguing that Hagelin's ideas connecting theoretical physics with TM are correct, only that Barry's ideas about Hagelin are INcorrect, especially his puerile analogy with Dan Brown.) This is 50 for me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_re...@... wrote: Hagelin is to science what Dan Brown is to literature. You rate him that highly? LOL. See my followup post. :-) In terms of success and achievement, absolutely not. In terms of selling out for their respective versions of success, absolutely.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John's problem is that he never strays outside his comfort zone. He only ever gives talks to non-physicists who don't know anything much about the subject matter. If he had the courage to make some presentations at physics conferences (if they'd accept his abstracts), then they'd rip him to pieces and he'd have to start thinking deeply about how to defend his ideas. Because no one ever questions him, then he never has to think, and because he never has to think then he just goes round and round on an endless loop of new-age TMO happy clappy speak. Hagelin is to science what Dan Brown is to literature. You pass judgement too early without knowing the background and context of the current quest of the theory of everything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2K_FR_MWMw Admittedly, I came to the realization that these physicists are getting beaucoup bucks for thinking these ideas up. But that is the field of physics at the cutting edge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John's problem is that he never strays outside his comfort zone. He only ever gives talks to non-physicists who don't know anything much about the subject matter. FWIW, what he's saying in this clip isn't some weird idea he dreamed up himself. The quantum foam concept came from John Wheeler back in the 1950s. The notion that the bubbles give birth to universes was proposed by physicist Andrei Linde in the 1990s. It's one of several competing approaches in the field of theoretical physics. In that exotic context, it's mainstream. It isn't Hagelin's physics that physicists have a problem with; it's the connections he makes to consciousness and the Vedic literature. On the other hand, there's a bunch of highly credentialed (non-TM) physicists who are convinced there are very strong connections to be made between physics principles and consciousness. That's not mainstream yet, but it's getting there. Stehphen Hawking is taking another approach to this inquiry. He favors a model of the universe that follows all the laws of physics. But like a novel that begs for more questions, he concludes that one cannot ask what happened before the Big Bang because nothing existed before then in scientific terms. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Kp0rQ23PY If you all have the time, you should watch the entire series of clips, five in all.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk Cool. It's the bubble diagram revisited. John goes back to basics, the bubble diagram, and boils it all down, explaining complex concepts, simply and elegantly. The beauty of the bubble diagram is that it makes transcending, an abstract concept, more concrete without over intellectualizing the TM experience, a simple, natural, innocent process. Maharishi did his best to keep it simple, knowing that it is just about impossible for some folks to do. After all, how could anything so simple be any good? The over-thinker thinks, This is TOO simple, let's add some bells and whistles to make it more interesting! And, so go the lemmings, over the cliff. Tying one's intellect into knots over such a simple process is counterproductive. KISS. IMO. In physics, simplicity is elegance. But governments spend large sums of money to build elaborate machines to prove this point. See this clip about LHC in Switzerland. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJFllPVIcpgfeature=related
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
(Caveat: I'm not arguing that Hagelin's ideas connecting theoretical physics with TM are correct, only that Barry's ideas about Hagelin are INcorrect, especially his puerile analogy with Dan Brown.) All physicists would agree with Barry on that point.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: Here's an interesting proposition from John Hagelin. It appears that he got this idea from the vedic literatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_kXpsDJEk John's problem is that he never strays outside his comfort zone. He only ever gives talks to non-physicists who don't know anything much about the subject matter. If he had the courage to make some presentations at physics conferences (if they'd accept his abstracts), then they'd rip him to pieces and he'd have to start thinking deeply about how to defend his ideas. A bit like Satyendra Nath Bose was ripped into pieces? :D Oddly enough, the major purpose of the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland is to find the Higgs boson, a particle named for SN Bose who theoretically proposed it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Space/Time Foam
A bit like Satyendra Nath Bose was ripped into pieces? :D Oddly enough, the major purpose of the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland is to find the Higgs boson, a particle named for SN Bose who theoretically proposed it. Clarification:- Bosons are named after Bose. The hypothetical Higgs Boson is named after Peter Higgs who proposed it. Bosons are well known, the Higgs Boson has not yet been discovered. The idea that the LHC was built to find the Higgs may be the way the thing is presented to the public, but it's not the way it's seen amongst scientists. If the LHC doesn't find the Higgs then that would be bigger discovery than finding it because that would falsify a larger number of theories than finding it and therefore provide more information.
