[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Sure, you've got to be able to *actually* play but on top of that some drummers seem to have a layer of panache that most struggle to attain. I always thought it was unfair that even the great drummers wouldn't get a dime of song writing royalties even though the band wouldn't be anywhere near as good without them. Can you imagine Zeppelin without Bonham? Or the Police without Copeland? Or anyone without Vinnie Coliutta? Most are just functional these days and don't dazzle in their own right.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@... wrote: Just curious, who is/are your favorite classical composer(s)? (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, Debussy, Stravinsky, Wagner, Vivaldi, Brahms...) I might add that I'd be mighty surprised if one of them was beep... :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/14/2013 11:04 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Sure, you've got to be able to *actually* play but on top of that some drummers seem to have a layer of panache that most struggle to attain. I always thought it was unfair that even the great drummers wouldn't get a dime of song writing royalties even though the band wouldn't be anywhere near as good without them. Can you imagine Zeppelin without Bonham? Or the Police without Copeland? Or anyone without Vinnie Coliutta? Most are just functional these days and don't dazzle in their own right. Song writing royalties usually go to the writers themselves. You don't see Ringo on Beatles song credits do you? But mechanical royalties might often be split up among band members. And there were some bands where the drummer might have written tunes. I wrote for some of the bands I was in but then I'm not just a drummer. ;-) Getting screwed is due to poor business practices either in setting up publishing or even their recording contracts. Record companies loved to sign up starry eyed young bands because they were so anxious to become stars they wouldn't take the time to get some advice on the business end of things. Some that did okay had either parents or relatives who were musicians themselves and knew the business to keep them from signing bad deals. And some came from wealthier families where they were taught business.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/14/2013 11:16 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Just curious, who is/are your favorite classical composer(s)? (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, Debussy, Stravinsky, Wagner, Vivaldi, Brahms...) I don't have favorites. I like what certain composers wrote. Since I liked to push the envelope with modern compositions some of the post romantics were interesting to me because they introduced some of the harmonies that jazz musicians picked up on. But then I once played a pops concert with the Seattle Symphony with Andre Kostolanetz conducting where we played a piece by a Brazilian composer written in the mid 1800s that sounded just as modern as anything written in the 1960s. And some of my serious composer friends say there were a number of composers even earlier than that who dared to break the rules and wrote modernist stuff centuries ago. I think one might have been a nobleman who liked to write music and the church didn't want to mess with him for writing songs of the devil.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 11:04 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Sure, you've got to be able to *actually* play but on top of that some drummers seem to have a layer of panache that most struggle to attain. I always thought it was unfair that even the great drummers wouldn't get a dime of song writing royalties even though the band wouldn't be anywhere near as good without them. Can you imagine Zeppelin without Bonham? Or the Police without Copeland? Or anyone without Vinnie Coliutta? Most are just functional these days and don't dazzle in their own right. Song writing royalties usually go to the writers themselves. You don't see Ringo on Beatles song credits do you? Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: (snip) And some of my serious composer friends say there were a number of composers even earlier than that who dared to break the rules and wrote modernist stuff centuries ago. I think one might have been a nobleman who liked to write music and the church didn't want to mess with him for writing songs of the devil. You may be thinking of Carlo Gesualdo (late 16th-early 17th century), a nobleman who brutally murdered his wife and her lover *in flagrante* and subsequently went insane. He wrote choral music, both religious and secular (mostly in madrigal form), and some instrumental music as well, that was full of very modern dissonance and modulation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddtHVNpOKM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whx643DqAV8 Wikipedia's Gesualdo entry has a wonderful quote from Alduous Huxley about listening to some of the composer's madrigals: ...Through the uneven phrases of the madrigals, the music pursued its course, never sticking to the same key for two bars together. In Gesualdo, that fantastic character out of a Webster melodrama, psychological disintegration had exaggerated, had pushed to the extreme limit, a tendency inherent in modal as opposed to fully tonal music. The resulting works sounded as though they might have been written by the later Schoenberg. 'And yet,' I felt myself constrained to say, as I listened to these strange products of a Counter-reformation psychosis working upon a late medieval art form, 'and yet it does not matter that he's all in bits. The whole is disorganized. But each individual fragment is in order, is a representative of a Higher Order. The Highest Order prevails even in the disintegration. The totality is present even in the broken pieces. More clearly present, perhaps, than in a completely coherent work. At least you aren't lulled into a sense of false security by some merely human, merely fabricated order. You have to rely on your immediate perception of the ultimate order. So in a certain sense disintegration may have its advantages. But of course it's dangerous, horribly dangerous. Suppose you couldn't get back, out of the chaos...'
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. Oh, wow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOEQTJV_3-w
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. Oh, wow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOEQTJV_3-w Thanks for posting that link. Do you know I just assumed everyone would be familiar that track so didn't bother myself! It moves me so much. The whole album is fantastic, it was the first serious album I brought. I was 13 and went from Boney M to gobsmacked in an instant.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. Oh, wow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOEQTJV_3-w Thanks for posting that link. Do you know I just assumed everyone would be familiar that track so didn't bother myself! Most here probably are familiar with it. It moves me so much. The whole album is fantastic, it was the first serious album I brought. I was 13 and went from Boney M to gobsmacked in an instant. I was 13 in 1955. The first serious album I bought was Sinatra's Songs for Swingin' Lovers. ;-) By the time When the Levee Breaks came out in 1971, I was 29 and not listening to popular music much except the Beatles, so I'm a bit deprived. This was just stunning.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/15/2013 09:50 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 11:04 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Sure, you've got to be able to *actually* play but on top of that some drummers seem to have a layer of panache that most struggle to attain. I always thought it was unfair that even the great drummers wouldn't get a dime of song writing royalties even though the band wouldn't be anywhere near as good without them. Can you imagine Zeppelin without Bonham? Or the Police without Copeland? Or anyone without Vinnie Coliutta? Most are just functional these days and don't dazzle in their own right. Song writing royalties usually go to the writers themselves. You don't see Ringo on Beatles song credits do you? Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. That's not the way song copyrighting works. It's about the words and melodies not solos by that artists. It's always been that way. And even then I would highly doubt that Bonham played the same solo every time (boring, boring, boring). He got his bucks off the album royalties and concert profits. Unfortunately for some of these artists those bucks went up their nose.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. Oh, wow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOEQTJV_3-w Thanks for posting that link. Do you know I just assumed everyone would be familiar that track so didn't bother myself! Most here probably are familiar with it. It moves me so much. The whole album is fantastic, it was the first serious album I brought. I was 13 and went from Boney M to gobsmacked in an instant. I was 13 in 1955. The first serious album I bought was Sinatra's Songs for Swingin' Lovers. ;-) By the time When the Levee Breaks came out in 1971, I was 29 and not listening to popular music much except the Beatles, so I'm a bit deprived. This was just stunning. Treat yourself to the album. Just about every second of it still sends a shiver down my neck. After 35 years that's got to be a solid gold recommendation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/15/2013 09:50 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 11:04 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Sure, you've got to be able to *actually* play but on top of that some drummers seem to have a layer of panache that most struggle to attain. I always thought it was unfair that even the great drummers wouldn't get a dime of song writing royalties even though the band wouldn't be anywhere near as good without them. Can you imagine Zeppelin without Bonham? Or the Police without Copeland? Or anyone without Vinnie Coliutta? Most are just functional these days and don't dazzle in their own right. Song writing royalties usually go to the writers themselves. You don't see Ringo on Beatles song credits do you? Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. That's not the way song copyrighting works. It's about the words and melodies not solos by that artists. It's always been that way. And even then I would highly doubt that Bonham played the same solo every time (boring, boring, boring). He got his bucks off the album royalties and concert profits. Unfortunately for some of these artists those bucks went up their nose. Zeppelin made a fortune, they had a much better record deal than The Beatles, their manager was a terrifying ex-Hells Angel and would beat the shit out of anyone who didn't pay up, which Brian Epstein probably never even have thought of. They did make excessive powder consumption part of their lives though, it finished off John Bonham, he died of rock and roll and that was that. Best rock group with the best rock drummer. Whereas an awful lot of musicians are interchangeable, JB was irreplaceable.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/15/2013 11:32 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/15/2013 09:50 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 11:04 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Sure, you've got to be able to *actually* play but on top of that some drummers seem to have a layer of panache that most struggle to attain. I always thought it was unfair that even the great drummers wouldn't get a dime of song writing royalties even though the band wouldn't be anywhere near as good without them. Can you imagine Zeppelin without Bonham? Or the Police without Copeland? Or anyone without Vinnie Coliutta? Most are just functional these days and don't dazzle in their own right. Song writing royalties usually go to the writers themselves. You don't see Ringo on Beatles song credits do you? Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. That's not the way song copyrighting works. It's about the words and melodies not solos by that artists. It's always been that way. And even then I would highly doubt that Bonham played the same solo every time (boring, boring, boring). He got his bucks off the album royalties and concert profits. Unfortunately for some of these artists those bucks went up their nose. Zeppelin made a fortune, they had a much better record deal than The Beatles, their manager was a terrifying ex-Hells Angel and would beat the shit out of anyone who didn't pay up, which Brian Epstein probably never even have thought of. They did make excessive powder consumption part of their lives though, it finished off John Bonham, he died of rock and roll and that was that. Best rock group with the best rock drummer. Whereas an awful lot of musicians are interchangeable, JB was irreplaceable. Small story, my rock group opened for the Yardbirds summer 1967 at a concert in Richmond, BC. Jeff Beck had left the group and I recall the two sorta shy guys who had just joined backstage. Of course one was Jimmy Page. Drummers develop styles in very idiosyncratic ways. Sometimes it is because of a lack of formal or fragmented training. These days they're likely to have not only a set background but serious percussion training too. When I was in high school I studied with the Archer-Epler world champion who had a lot of technique, Del Blake from Spokane, Washington. I made a monthly trip to Spokane to study with him. He went on to play drums in Sammy Davis's orchestra as well as Merv Griffin's band (run by bassist Ray Brown). Rudimental drumming was all about having chops back then. It was also not very conducive to set playing at the time and we talked about methods of doing that. Billy Cobham was one who solved that. In college, as a music major, my instructor frowned on rudimental drumming and we focused on the techniques of Fred Hinger, principal persussionist of the Philadelphia Philharmonic. That was all about phrasing and musicianship as well as playing out of the drum. Later I had a former New York drummer who had studied show drumming and taught using a wide range of styles. Nothing was verboten.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) salyavin: The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. Hal Blaine is a member of the Rock Roll Hall of Fame and the Percussive Arts Society Hall of Fame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Blaine 'Drums a Go Go' Audio CD, Varese Sarabande Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/d5dn9e2 'Drums a Go Go' Vinyl, DUNHILL D-50002 eBay: http://tinyurl.com/cpdnd7z Hal Blaine Drums A Go Go 1967: http://youtu.be/3CJ4svg0JQw Hal Blaine the Wrecking Crew: http://youtu.be/fxvXVZCRhkk
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/15/2013 11:32 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/15/2013 09:50 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 11:04 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-) Sure, you've got to be able to *actually* play but on top of that some drummers seem to have a layer of panache that most struggle to attain. I always thought it was unfair that even the great drummers wouldn't get a dime of song writing royalties even though the band wouldn't be anywhere near as good without them. Can you imagine Zeppelin without Bonham? Or the Police without Copeland? Or anyone without Vinnie Coliutta? Most are just functional these days and don't dazzle in their own right. Song writing royalties usually go to the writers themselves. You don't see Ringo on Beatles song credits do you? Yes I know, but the point I'm making is that the drumming on say, When the levee breaks by Zeppelin is as much part of the song as the tune and lyrics but he wouldn't have got any extra for writing what is not just a kick ass beat but also the most sampled beat in the whole of music. That's not the way song copyrighting works. It's about the words and melodies not solos by that artists. It's always been that way. And even then I would highly doubt that Bonham played the same solo every time (boring, boring, boring). He got his bucks off the album royalties and concert profits. Unfortunately for some of these artists those bucks went up their nose. Zeppelin made a fortune, they had a much better record deal than The Beatles, their manager was a terrifying ex-Hells Angel and would beat the shit out of anyone who didn't pay up, which Brian Epstein probably never even have thought of. They did make excessive powder consumption part of their lives though, it finished off John Bonham, he died of rock and roll and that was that. Best rock group with the best rock drummer. Whereas an awful lot of musicians are interchangeable, JB was irreplaceable. Small story, my rock group opened for the Yardbirds summer 1967 at a concert in Richmond, BC. Jeff Beck had left the group and I recall the two sorta shy guys who had just joined backstage. Of course one was Jimmy Page. Drummers develop styles in very idiosyncratic ways. Sometimes it is because of a lack of formal or fragmented training. These days they're likely to have not only a set background but serious percussion training too. When I was in high school I studied with the Archer-Epler world champion who had a lot of technique, Del Blake from Spokane, Washington. I made a monthly trip to Spokane to study with him. He went on to play drums in Sammy Davis's orchestra as well as Merv Griffin's band (run by bassist Ray Brown). Rudimental drumming was all about having chops back then. It was also not very conducive to set playing at the time and we talked about methods of doing that. Billy Cobham was one who solved that. In college, as a music major, my instructor frowned on rudimental drumming and we focused on the techniques of Fred Hinger, principal persussionist of the Philadelphia Philharmonic. That was all about phrasing and musicianship as well as playing out of the drum. Later I had a former New York drummer who had studied show drumming and taught using a wide range of styles. Nothing was verboten. Wow, I just hit them! I'm sure you know this story, but when Page
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/15/2013 10:06 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: (snip) And some of my serious composer friends say there were a number of composers even earlier than that who dared to break the rules and wrote modernist stuff centuries ago. I think one might have been a nobleman who liked to write music and the church didn't want to mess with him for writing songs of the devil. You may be thinking of Carlo Gesualdo (late 16th-early 17th century), a nobleman who brutally murdered his wife and her lover *in flagrante* and subsequently went insane. He wrote choral music, both religious and secular (mostly in madrigal form), and some instrumental music as well, that was full of very modern dissonance and modulation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddtHVNpOKM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whx643DqAV8 Wikipedia's Gesualdo entry has a wonderful quote from Alduous Huxley about listening to some of the composer's madrigals: ...Through the uneven phrases of the madrigals, the music pursued its course, never sticking to the same key for two bars together. In Gesualdo, that fantastic character out of a Webster melodrama, psychological disintegration had exaggerated, had pushed to the extreme limit, a tendency inherent in modal as opposed to fully tonal music. The resulting works sounded as though they might have been written by the later Schoenberg. 'And yet,' I felt myself constrained to say, as I listened to these strange products of a Counter-reformation psychosis working upon a late medieval art form, 'and yet it does not matter that he's all in bits. The whole is disorganized. But each individual fragment is in order, is a representative of a Higher Order. The Highest Order prevails even in the disintegration. The totality is present even in the broken pieces. More clearly present, perhaps, than in a completely coherent work. At least you aren't lulled into a sense of false security by some merely human, merely fabricated order. You have to rely on your immediate perception of the ultimate order. So in a certain sense disintegration may have its advantages. But of course it's dangerous, horribly dangerous. Suppose you couldn't get back, out of the chaos...' Thanks. I believe that was the composer my friend was referring to. I see there was one TV movie based on him Death for Five Voices that I may have seen too. The church often banned the use of the flatted 5th or tritone which was referred to as the devil's interval. Modern diesel train engines use it for their horns.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/15/2013 10:06 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: (snip) And some of my serious composer friends say there were a number of composers even earlier than that who dared to break the rules and wrote modernist stuff centuries ago. I think one might have been a nobleman who liked to write music and the church didn't want to mess with him for writing songs of the devil. You may be thinking of Carlo Gesualdo (late 16th-early 17th century), a nobleman who brutally murdered his wife and her lover *in flagrante* and subsequently went insane. He wrote choral music, both religious and secular (mostly in madrigal form), and some instrumental music as well, that was full of very modern dissonance and modulation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddtHVNpOKM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whx643DqAV8 Wikipedia's Gesualdo entry has a wonderful quote from Alduous Huxley about listening to some of the composer's madrigals: (snip quote) Thanks. I believe that was the composer my friend was referring to. I see there was one TV movie based on him Death for Five Voices that I may have seen too. Yes, by Werner Herzog. A quasi-documentary. There are some clips from it on YouTube. The church often banned the use of the flatted 5th or tritone which was referred to as the devil's interval. Diabolus in musica. That it was banned is probably apocryphal, but it was definitely viewed (heard) with suspicion and generally avoided. Modern diesel train engines use it for their horns.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs_AgCTovik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs_AgCTovik Oxford Camerata,Jeremy Summerly, director. Much of this Carlo Gesualdo's music makes his mental turmoil and fear of damnation over his infamous murders achingly clear, especially the disturbing mode changes and chromaticism on parts of the text that say things like have mercy on me and words like my sorrow and my tears 01. Illumina faciem tuam 02. Deus refugium et virtus (4,25~) 03. Exaudi Deus deprecationem meam (6,50~) 04. Tribulationem et dolorem (9,35~) 05. Tribularer si nescirem (14,35~) 06. Precibus et meritis beatae Mariae (18,25~) 07. O Crux benedicta (20,40~) 08. O vos omnes (25,00~) 09. Dignare me laudare te (28,55~) 10. Maria mater gratiae (31,00~) 11. Laboravi in gemitu meo (34,55~) 12. Ave dulcissima Maria (39,15~) 13. Domine ne despicias (43,50~) 14. Peccantem me quotidie (46,00~) 15. Sancti Spiritus Domine (51,30~) 16. Hei mihi Domine (53,35~) 17. Venit lumen tuum Jerusalem (57,20~) 18. Reminiscere miserationum tuarum (1,00,10~) 19. Ave Regina coelorum (1,04,00~) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: snip (snip quote) Thanks. I believe that was the composer my friend was referring to. I see there was one TV movie based on him Death for Five Voices that I may have seen too. Yes, by Werner Herzog. A quasi-documentary. There are some clips from it on YouTube. here found the movie full on You tube worth to watch in full or to re-watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6iaghGYSjc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6iaghGYSjc The church often banned the use of the flatted 5th or tritone which was referred to as the devil's interval. Diabolus in musica. That it was banned is probably apocryphal, but it was definitely viewed (heard) with suspicion and generally avoided. thanks for the apocryphal-there are certainly more to write about but... some smile for your inner child of 13 as a thank you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NazkSQyPx0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NazkSQyPx0 Modern diesel train engines use it for their horns.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 06:07 AM, salyavin808 wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Now all you need is robot audiences and then everyone will be happy. Oh wait, the audience is already a bunch of robots! I can see them catching on, imagine a techno band that would usually just have a drum machine. They could put the script into the robot, it would give them an edge soundwise and visually.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/14/2013 11:40 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 06:07 AM, salyavin808 wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Now all you need is robot audiences and then everyone will be happy. Oh wait, the audience is already a bunch of robots! I can see them catching on, imagine a techno band that would usually just have a drum machine. They could put the script into the robot, it would give them an edge soundwise and visually. Given how little I liked playing the pop venue where you're expected to play the tune the same damn way every time they might as well use robots. In fact why not use robots for all our work and we all just sit around at cafes drinking free espresso made and served by robots, of course, and just enjoy the afternoon sun. Oops, sorry you probably don't get much afternoon sun where you live. :-D
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 11:40 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 06:07 AM, salyavin808 wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Now all you need is robot audiences and then everyone will be happy. Oh wait, the audience is already a bunch of robots! I can see them catching on, imagine a techno band that would usually just have a drum machine. They could put the script into the robot, it would give them an edge soundwise and visually. Given how little I liked playing the pop venue where you're expected to play the tune the same damn way every time they might as well use robots. In fact why not use robots for all our work and we all just sit around at cafes drinking free espresso made and served by robots, of course, and just enjoy the afternoon sun. Oops, sorry you probably don't get much afternoon sun where you live. :-D What is this sun thing I keep hearing about? I reckon there will be a place in music for these robot drummers. But not in my sort of band where I'm the only one with enough arm strength to load the PA into the van. And poor time keeping gives music a human touch I always think. That's my excuse anyway...
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) I thought that's weird, because most of my favorite rock drummers are British (Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell, Charlie Watts, Viv Prince, Ringo, as a rock'n roll drummer...) Just learned that Motörhead's drummer is: Micael Kiriakos Delaoglou (Greek: #924;#953;#967;#945;#942;#955; #922;#965;#961;#953;#940;#954;#959;#962; #916;#949;#955;#940;#959;#947;#955;#959;#965;), better known as Mikkey Dee (born 31 October 1963) is a drummer/songwriter in the Heavy metal band Motörhead. A Swede of Greek descent, he has been known for his speed and precision since his mid-80s stint with King Diamond. (Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/14/2013 12:51 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/14/2013 11:40 AM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/14/2013 06:07 AM, salyavin808 wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Now all you need is robot audiences and then everyone will be happy. Oh wait, the audience is already a bunch of robots! I can see them catching on, imagine a techno band that would usually just have a drum machine. They could put the script into the robot, it would give them an edge soundwise and visually. Given how little I liked playing the pop venue where you're expected to play the tune the same damn way every time they might as well use robots. In fact why not use robots for all our work and we all just sit around at cafes drinking free espresso made and served by robots, of course, and just enjoy the afternoon sun. Oops, sorry you probably don't get much afternoon sun where you live. :-D What is this sun thing I keep hearing about? It's this round yellow thing in the sky we have around here much of the year. Or maybe it's Russian Propaganda. No, that would be a red thing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs
[FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future of drumming?!?
On 04/14/2013 02:45 PM, card wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9791039/Robot-band-performs-heavy-rock-classic-Ace-of-Spades.html Just listened to the original tune. The drummer is as awful as that robot! (Perhaps that awfulness is part of that band's style??) The drummer on the original Ace of Spades track was Philthy animal Taylor, who is one of my fave drummers. I saw Motorhead many times and they rocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdu2GoagU0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiVY9nxCZs People obviously like different aspects of drumming, too. I seem to recall Bhairitu once mentioned Elvin Jones and Max Roach as some of his favorite drummers. I don't like their styles at all, but many people apparently do! It's not about styles, it's about musicianship. There's show performance and musical performance. But there will definitely be a gap in understanding between a professional musician with over 50 years of professional experience and a listener or amateur. ;-)
