Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Meditation is not a science and Marshy only glommed onto it when he saw it could get him more followers. The monkey on your back is lying to you Buck - stop listening to him. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:12 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field The TM movement has always been about science testing and large scale science and thinking. Constrained now their limit currently is very much by the money to do pilot large scale studies. Evidently the modern movement is not in a position to gather much large data by way of more large-scale hypothesis testing now. Evidently the numbers are not there for reasons of some bad past behavior with money and finances. Particularly now in the internet era of the growing transparency of large and fast data, publishing, and communication a well-being and survival for most any group or organization may particularly rest within their own ethical behavior as a “Leading Economic Indicator”. I wish TM well. For all the world there is much riding on the science of meditating. Hopefully they can come to behave themselves better and really well ethically going forward for all to see. The Meissener Effect. One percent. N-squared. All through the history of the TM movement Maharishi was making observation and hypothesis and based on observation and testing of hypothesis came the actions of policy and direction of the larger TM movement. Science process entirely drove what we see as the TM movement now. That is a clear history of the TM movement. All the movement initiatives all through the decades were always driven as science testing of hypothesis about spirituality. All along Maharishi even from the first moments of his coming to the West was dragging science in to the 21stCentury around spirituality. A problem now is that the perceived less-than-ethical performance of the TM movement itself all along has also stalled a support of participation in and finances for the programs today that are needed to test for data and hypothesis on any of these former fronts. Replication? The old days of large science driving policy initiatives evidently are over.. related mostly to the old TM meditating community's perception around the finances of the TM movement itself. -Buck # Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
It's only natural for Rick Archer to turn a blind eye to this and other allegations and support MJ in this and other topics relating to rumor monging. That's what poor teachers do, support their students whatever they do. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/7/2014 10:25 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It is true his accusations are scurrilous and untrue.. Hagelin is one of the main guys the TMO and Lynch use to promote TM to whomever they think will bite - if he has mis-used his position as a faculty member to prey on his female students, the truth needs to be known. Subject: BatGap Panel Discussion Author: Michael Jackson Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 09:32:57 -0700 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279815.html http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279815.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/8/2014 2:06 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: It's only natural for Rick Archer to turn a blind eye to this and other allegations and support MJ in this and other topics relating to rumor monging. That's what poor teachers do, support their students whatever they do. Apparently Rick doesn't even know what's going on in his on discussion group. While he's busy interviewing spiritual teachers, his forum turned to shit. And, what about Alex - if I were him I'd resign. I sometimes wonder how these two guys can walk around Fairfield and look people in the eye - it must be embarrassing. Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Talk about disassociation! Go figure. Here is an example of how the informant TB trashed Rick's forum: If Hagelin had been a professor at any other American university, and his sexual exploits were as well known as Hagelin's were, he'd have been fired in an instant. It's a power differential issue as much as it is a morality issue. If you're a ranking member of the university hierarchy, there is no such thing as mutual consent when you're bedding someone you could have expelled at any moment. Add to that the issue of Hagelin being perceived as close to Maharishi, the serial sexual abuser many people in the TMO mistook for God, and you compound the issue. Libel is only libel if it isn't true. Any of us who worked in the TM hierarchy knew of Hagelin's proclivities. And Domash's. And Bevan's. If you didn't, it was because you were either not running in the circles they ran in, or you didn't want to know. Subject: John Hegelin: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump Author: TurquoiseB Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:51:03 -0800 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303848.html l http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279815.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/7/2014 5:41 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: Accusing people of federal crimes on a public forum, or at least this one, is not permissible. Rick Archer obviously doesn't read the posts of MJ either. Rick seems to be weak, very weak, in the righteous department, but he seems to have time to chastise me at the suggestion of the fink Barry. It's kind of sad that Rick would support Barry and MJ, but when you are in a forty-year trance-induction state, sometimes you just can't tell right from wrong - cognitive-dissonance? Go figure. Did you ask him about his practice of targeting his female students as sex partners? Subject: John Hegelin: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump Author: Michael Jackson Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:21:47 -0800 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303833.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
To the best of my knowledge, I am well liked in in FF. I get no sense that there are even very many people in FF who know and/or care about FFL. As for my silence indicating agreement, this is bullshit. Unlike some people who claim to not read stuff on FFL, I actually don't read the vast majority of what goes on here. It comes into my Thunderbird Inbox, I scan the subject lines, click a post here or there, and mark the folder as read. Behind the scenes, I handle subscriptions and help people when they need it. That's it. Since last summer, there's enough unpleasantness going on in my life that I especially don't need to get sucked into other people's miserable lives on FFL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pundits...@gmail.com wrote : On 8/8/2014 2:06 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: It's only natural for Rick Archer to turn a blind eye to this and other allegations and support MJ in this and other topics relating to rumor monging. That's what poor teachers do, support their students whatever they do. Apparently Rick doesn't even know what's going on in his on discussion group. While he's busy interviewing spiritual teachers, his forum turned to shit. And, what about Alex - if I were him I'd resign. I sometimes wonder how these two guys can walk around Fairfield and look people in the eye - it must be embarrassing. Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Talk about disassociation! Go figure. Here is an example of how the informant TB trashed Rick's forum: If Hagelin had been a professor at any other American university, and his sexual exploits were as well known as Hagelin's were, he'd have been fired in an instant. It's a power differential issue as much as it is a morality issue. If you're a ranking member of the university hierarchy, there is no such thing as mutual consent when you're bedding someone you could have expelled at any moment. Add to that the issue of Hagelin being perceived as close to Maharishi, the serial sexual abuser many people in the TMO mistook for God, and you compound the issue. Libel is only libel if it isn't true. Any of us who worked in the TM hierarchy knew of Hagelin's proclivities. And Domash's. And Bevan's. If you didn't, it was because you were either not running in the circles they ran in, or you didn't want to know. Subject: John Hegelin: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump Author: TurquoiseB Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:51:03 -0800 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303848.html http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303848.html l http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279815.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Well explained, and thank you. I wasn't really asking for any action on your or on Rick's part w.r.t. Willytex -- I think we're stuck with him. I was merely pointing out that he's been going WAY over the line with his troll fiction lately, far more egregiously than Ravi ever did. I think you and Rick do pretty much The Best Job Possible Given The Circumstances handling Fairfield Life. I'm still here partly *because* you do such a good job. You and Rick manage to walk that razor's edge of eternal spiritual dick-size contests without feeling the need to weigh in terribly much on any particular dick. Good for you. :-) From: j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field To the best of my knowledge, I am well liked in in FF. I get no sense that there are even very many people in FF who know and/or care about FFL. As for my silence indicating agreement, this is bullshit. Unlike some people who claim to not read stuff on FFL, I actually don't read the vast majority of what goes on here. It comes into my Thunderbird Inbox, I scan the subject lines, click a post here or there, and mark the folder as read. Behind the scenes, I handle subscriptions and help people when they need it. That's it. Since last summer, there's enough unpleasantness going on in my life that I especially don't need to get sucked into other people's miserable lives on FFL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pundits...@gmail.com wrote : On 8/8/2014 2:06 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: It's only natural for Rick Archer to turn a blind eye to this and other allegations and support MJ in this and other topics relating to rumor monging. That's what poor teachers do, support their students whatever they do. Apparently Rick doesn't even know what's going on in his on discussion group. While he's busy interviewing spiritual teachers, his forum turned to shit. And, what about Alex - if I were him I'd resign. I sometimes wonder how these two guys can walk around Fairfield and look people in the eye - it must be embarrassing. Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Talk about disassociation! Go figure. Here is an example of how the informant TB trashed Rick's forum: If Hagelin had been a professor at any other American university, and his sexual exploits were as well known as Hagelin's were, he'd have been fired in an instant. It's a power differential issue as much as it is a morality issue. If you're a ranking member of the university hierarchy, there is no such thing as mutual consent when you're bedding someone you could have expelled at any moment. Add to that the issue of Hagelin being perceived as close to Maharishi, the serial sexual abuser many people in the TMO mistook for God, and you compound the issue. Libel is only libel if it isn't true. Any of us who worked in the TM hierarchy knew of Hagelin's proclivities. And Domash's. And Bevan's. If you didn't, it was because you were either not running in the circles they ran in, or you didn't want to know. Subject: John Hegelin: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump Author: TurquoiseB Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:51:03 -0800 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303848.html l
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/8/2014 7:36 AM, j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: To the best of my knowledge, I am well liked in in FF. I get no sense that there are even very many people in FF who know and/or care about FFL. As for my silence indicating agreement, this is bullshit. Unlike some people who claim to not read stuff on FFL, I actually don't read the vast majority of what goes on here. It comes into my Thunderbird Inbox, I scan the subject lines, click a post here or there, and mark the folder as read. Behind the scenes, I handle subscriptions and help people when they need it. That's it. Since last summer, there's enough unpleasantness going on in my life that I especially don't need to get sucked into other people's miserable lives on FFL. Thanks for the reply, you have my sympathy, but I would be so embarassed to be associated with this group, I think I would just move out of town, or at least post as an alias and deny I even knew Rick Archer. Go figure. But note Hegelin's immoral sex life. There's his actual superiority complex running close to red-line. That is: other people's ideas about marital fidelity are to be trod upon without any civility. Subject: BatGapPanel Discussion Author: Duveyoung Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 09:33:22 -0700 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279410.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/8/2014 8:19 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well explained, and thank you. I wasn't really asking for any action on your or on Rick's part w.r.t. Willytex -- I think we're stuck with him. I was merely pointing out that he's been going WAY over the line with his troll fiction lately, far more egregiously than Ravi ever did. It sure looks like we've got an informant or two on the list. Run to Rick, run to Rick! I was merely pointing out that you and MJ are finks, but do you have to be a hypocrite? Go figure. Libel is only libel if it isn't true. Any of us who worked in the TM hierarchy knew of Hagelin's proclivities. And Domash's. And Bevan's. If you didn't, it was because you were either not running in the circles they ran in, or you didn't want to know. Subject: John Hegelin: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump Author: TurquoiseB Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:51:03 -0800 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303848.html I think you and Rick do pretty much The Best Job Possible Given The Circumstances handling Fairfield Life. I'm still here partly *because* you do such a good job. You and Rick manage to walk that razor's edge of eternal spiritual dick-size contests without feeling the need to weigh in terribly much on any particular dick. Good for you. :-) *From:* j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, August 8, 2014 2:36 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field To the best of my knowledge, I am well liked in in FF. I get no sense that there are even very many people in FF who know and/or care about FFL. As for my silence indicating agreement, this is bullshit. Unlike some people who claim to not read stuff on FFL, I actually don't read the vast majority of what goes on here. It comes into my Thunderbird Inbox, I scan the subject lines, click a post here or there, and mark the folder as read. Behind the scenes, I handle subscriptions and help people when they need it. That's it. Since last summer, there's enough unpleasantness going on in my life that I especially don't need to get sucked into other people's miserable lives on FFL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pundits...@gmail.com wrote : On 8/8/2014 2:06 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: It's only natural for Rick Archer to turn a blind eye to this and other allegations and support MJ in this and other topics relating to rumor monging. That's what poor teachers do, support their students whatever they do. Apparently Rick doesn't even know what's going on in his on discussion group. While he's busy interviewing spiritual teachers, his forum turned to shit. And, what about Alex - if I were him I'd resign. I sometimes wonder how these two guys can walk around Fairfield and look people in the eye - it must be embarrassing. Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Talk about disassociation! Go figure. Here is an example of how the informant TB trashed Rick's forum: If Hagelin had been a professor at any other American university, and his sexual exploits were as well known as Hagelin's were, he'd have been fired in an instant. It's a power differential issue as much as it is a morality issue. If you're a ranking member of the university hierarchy, there is no such thing as mutual consent when you're bedding someone you could have expelled at any moment. Add to that the issue of Hagelin being perceived as close to Maharishi, the serial sexual abuser many people in the TMO mistook for God, and you compound the issue. Libel is only libel if it isn't true. Any of us who worked in the TM hierarchy knew of Hagelin's proclivities. And Domash's. And Bevan's. If you didn't, it was because you were either not running in the circles they ran in, or you didn't want to know. Subject: John Hegelin: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump Author: TurquoiseB Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:51:03 -0800 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303848.html l http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279815.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Steve, you raise some very good points here. Which will likely not be addressed. I noticed that MJ did not answer any of the very reasonable, unprejudiced questions posted by soundofstillness a few weeks back. IMO, that spoke volumes about MJ. On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:08 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: You have no idea what effect meditation and practicing the siddhis in a large group may have. You trot out the fact that Fairfield is not an ideal place, or that it has not produced the desired effect in high profile demonstrations as proof that it is useless program. And you suggest that any benefits which one associates with the practice* are due to the power of suggestion. *Again, as has been pointed out, you exempt any particular new age teachings, or techniques that you may be embracing at the moment, and you are undecided, (according to you own words) about channeling. And if you feel that you may be in a position to benefit financially, as in promoting treatments for PTSD for veterans, then certainly you exempt those treatments, even it they have a new agey twinge about them.. As for your usual Willytex reference, you might want to consider the advice he has sometimes offered you, which is to look more to the future, instead of spending so much time rehashing the past. He does not lie when he states that this TMO has made a remarkably deep impression on you. I mean, let's face it, you've often bragged about the profound experiences you've had (or had) both during and after meditation. The time spent watching you try to disown those experiences were some of the best posts we had in a while. I'd love to have a taste of that again. Oh, this wasting time is sometimes fun! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 10:07 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: You have no idea what effect meditation and practicing the siddhis in a large group may have. The one thing /we do know/ is that MJ, in a trance-induction state, baked cupcakes and served them to poor students in the MIU cafeteria, resulting in at least one cult leader becoming obese. What we /don't know/ is how much pot and hash MJ put into the confections, or if he didn't put enough. It could be that he horded most of the weed in his pod and shared it with some of the female students and plied them with cheap beer every night. It may that these are some of the reason MJ was kicked off the campus in the middle of the night and had to call his parents to get a bus ticket back to where he came from. /We also know for sure/ that MJ didn't do much in the way of academic study at the religious school, but he may have prayed on his hands and knees inside a golden dome on a few occasions. Go figure. You trot out the fact that Fairfield is not an ideal place, or that it has not produced the desired effect in high profile demonstrations as proof that it is useless program. And you suggest that any benefits which one associates with the practice* are due to the power of suggestion. *Again, as has been pointed out, you exempt any particular new age teachings, or techniques that you may be embracing at the moment, and you are undecided, (according to you own words) about channeling. And if you feel that you may be in a position to benefit financially, as in promoting treatments for PTSD for veterans, then certainly you exempt those treatments, even it they have a new agey twinge about them.. As for your usual Willytex reference, you might want to consider the advice he has sometimes offered you, which is to look more to the future, instead of spending so much time rehashing the past. He does not lie when he states that this TMO has made a remarkably deep impression on you. I mean, let's face it, you've often bragged about the profound experiences you've had (or had) both during and after meditation.The time spent watching you try to disown those experiences were some of the best posts we had in a while. I'd love to have a taste of that again. Oh, this wasting time is sometimes fun! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 10:47 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: The effect as you call it is the effect of gullible people listening to Hagelin and Marshy's bullshit about it and suspending their logical critical thinking skills, feeling wonderful about creating non-existent world peace and giving more time and money to a fake ass movement and guru. /Now this is funny/ - a guy who is in a trance-induction state that was so gullible and prone to suggestion that he took a Greyhound bus up to Iowa to live in a pod for two years during the winter and work for free, so he could get down on his hands and knees and pray inside a golden dome twice a day, thinks Buck is /suspending his logical thinking/. You just can't make this stuff up - it's a wonderful feeling for someone like me who just feels better when he has somone to talk to. It's the gift that just keeps on giving and giving and giving! Thanks, but please don't feed it anymore - it's just to funny. *From:* dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:52 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Data, Observation, Hypothesis and Test. Quite evidently it [the Meissner Effect of Consciousness] was hypothesized, data gathered, tested and demonstrated quite well statistically. You quite evidently are just saying what you are saying as part of your own emotionally damaged anti-science anti-intellectual very personal PR program against TM and spirituality. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck mjackson74 writes: The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. *From:* salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 10:07 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: You have no idea what effect meditation and practicing the siddhis in a large group may have. The one thing we do know is that MJ, in a trance-induction state, baked cupcakes and served them to poor students in the MIU cafeteria, resulting in at least one cult leader becoming obese. What we don't know is how much pot and hash MJ put into the confections, or if he didn't put enough. It could be that he horded most of the weed in his pod and shared it with some of the female students and plied them with cheap beer every night. It may that these are some of the reason MJ was kicked off the campus in the middle of the night and had to call his parents to get a bus ticket back to where he came from. We also know for sure that MJ didn't do much in the way of academic study at the religious school, but he may have prayed on his hands and knees inside a golden dome on a few occasions. Go figure. OK, Rick and Alex...WTF? If this isn't using Fairfield Life to smear the name, reputation and potential livelihood of another FFL poster, what is? Richard Williams is actually accusing Michael on a publicly published forum of several *Federal fucking crimes*, ferchrssakes. None of this shit ever happened, and he knows it. Yet he writes it anyway. This is the legal dictionary definition of libel. Remember back when you threw Ravi off of Fairfield Life for saying untrue things about Curtis, things that could very well harm his reputation and his ability to earn a living in the real world? That was a Good Thing. Overlooking Richard doing the same thing and worse really ISN'T a Good Thing. Just sayin'...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Thanks for having my back Turq. As I said a couple days ago, I actually never read Willy's posts anymore so I never know what he blabbers about till someone else comments on his idiocy. It is true his accusations are scurrilous and untrue. And it may be Alex and Rick haven't commented on them because they delete his posts unread like me. I dunno how long Willy did TM or wore a Buddhist stupa on his head, but it obviously gave him mental problems. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 10:07 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: You have no idea what effect meditation and practicing the siddhis in a large group may have. The one thing we do know is that MJ, in a trance-induction state, baked cupcakes and served them to poor students in the MIU cafeteria, resulting in at least one cult leader becoming obese. What we don't know is how much pot and hash MJ put into the confections, or if he didn't put enough. It could be that he horded most of the weed in his pod and shared it with some of the female students and plied them with cheap beer every night. It may that these are some of the reason MJ was kicked off the campus in the middle of the night and had to call his parents to get a bus ticket back to where he came from. We also know for sure that MJ didn't do much in the way of academic study at the religious school, but he may have prayed on his hands and knees inside a golden dome on a few occasions. Go figure. OK, Rick and Alex...WTF? If this isn't using Fairfield Life to smear the name, reputation and potential livelihood of another FFL poster, what is? Richard Williams is actually accusing Michael on a publicly published forum of several *Federal fucking crimes*, ferchrssakes. None of this shit ever happened, and he knows it. Yet he writes it anyway. This is the legal dictionary definition of libel. Remember back when you threw Ravi off of Fairfield Life for saying untrue things about Curtis, things that could very well harm his reputation and his ability to earn a living in the real world? That was a Good Thing. Overlooking Richard doing the same thing and worse really ISN'T a Good Thing. Just sayin'...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
** The one thing /we do know/ is that MJ, in a trance-induction state, baked cupcakes and served them to poor students in the MIU cafeteria, resulting in at least one cult leader becoming obese. What we /don't know/ is how much pot and hash MJ put into the confections, or if he didn't put enough. It could be that he horded most of the weed in his pod and shared it with some of the female students and plied them with cheap beer every night. It may that these are some of the reason MJ was kicked off the campus in the middle of the night and had to call his parents to get a bus ticket back to where he came from. /We also know for sure/ that MJ didn't do much in the way of academic study at the religious school, but he may have prayed on his hands and knees inside a golden dome on a few occasions. Go figure. On 8/7/2014 8:54 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: OK, Rick and Alex...WTF? If this isn't using Fairfield Life to smear the name, reputation and potential livelihood of another FFL poster, what is? Based on what the anonymous informant MJ posted to FFL we know that on FFL he accused former MIU students of smoking pot and taking illegal drugs on campus, so ergo he probably was one of the campus gang. Otherwise MJ is just a fink spreading false rumors. MJ further posted that he had evidence that the President of the university had sexual relations with students, but we don't know how MJ got into the President's private bedroom. Corrections: We don't know for sure if MJ lived in a pod or not, but he must have slept somewhere and the trailer houses were probably reserved for paying students. And, we have only MJ's word that he prayed inside a golden dome twice a day. But, if he did he probably was on his hands and knees since that's how you practice the TMSP. According to MJ's own testimony he was fired from his staff position at the university. We don't know for sure that MJ took a Greyhound bus back home at night after he was fired - it could have been in broad daylight, but I doubt he could have taken a local airplane flight based on the earnings of a mere dishwasher. So, we need to keep in mind that these are the claims of an anonymous poster, not a real person whose occupation is at stake. I guess if that was true, MJ wouldn't have tried to spread all these rumors on the internet in the first place. I guess that's why he posted as an anonymous informant - probably the same reason he got fired at MIU - his big pie hole. Go figure. Richard Williams is actually accusing Michael on a publicly published forum of several *Federal fucking crimes*, ferchrssakes. None of this shit ever happened, and he knows it. Yet he writes it anyway. This is the legal dictionary definition of libel. Remember back when you threw Ravi off of Fairfield Life for saying untrue things about Curtis, things that could very well harm his reputation and his ability to earn a living in the real world? That was a Good Thing. Overlooking Richard doing the same thing and worse really ISN'T a Good Thing. Just sayin'...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/7/2014 10:25 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks for having my back Turq. As I said a couple days ago, I actually never read Willy's posts anymore so I never know what he blabbers about till someone else comments on his idiocy. /Now this is funny/ - MJ and the TB put a filter on their email program so they could block my messages, but now it's all about Willy. Go figure. It is true his accusations are scurrilous and untrue. And it may be Alex and Rick haven't commented on them because they delete his posts unread like me. So, you don't deny that you posted to FFL a rumor about Bevan's sexual relations with students. And, you don't deny that you posted rumors about how you witnessed illegal drug use by students on the MIU campus when you were on staff? Obviously you finked on your friends, but how did you get access to the President's bedroom and what were you doing in there? Just be honest. I dunno how long Willy did TM or wore a Buddhist stupa on his head, but it obviously gave him mental problems. So, under a trance induction state, you took a Greyhound bus up to an Iowa religious cult and forced to work as an unpaid baker, live in a pod during two winters, and you were coerced into praying inside a golden dome on your hands and knees for hours. And, you were threatened to be fired if you didn't try to fly or stay awake when the propaganda tapes were played, but Willy has mental problems? Go figure. The one thing /we do know/ is that MJ, in a trance-induction state, baked cupcakes and served them to poor students in the MIU cafeteria, resulting in at least one cult leader becoming obese. What we /don't know/ is how much pot and hash MJ put into the confections, or if he didn't put enough. It could be that he horded most of the weed in his pod and shared it with some of the female students and plied them with cheap beer every night. It may that these are some of the reason MJ was kicked off the campus in the middle of the night and had to call his parents to get a bus ticket back to where he came from. /We also know for sure/ that MJ didn't do much in the way of academic study at the religious school, but he may have prayed on his hands and knees inside a golden dome on a few occasions. Go figure. OK, Rick and Alex...WTF? If this isn't using Fairfield Life to smear the name, reputation and potential livelihood of another FFL poster, what is? Richard Williams is actually accusing Michael on a publicly published forum of several *Federal fucking crimes*, ferchrssakes. None of this shit ever happened, and he knows it. Yet he writes it anyway. This is the legal dictionary definition of libel. Remember back when you threw Ravi off of Fairfield Life for saying untrue things about Curtis, things that could very well harm his reputation and his ability to earn a living in the real world? That was a Good Thing. Overlooking Richard doing the same thing and worse really ISN'T a Good Thing. Just sayin'...
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:26 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Thanks for having my back Turq. As I said a couple days ago, I actually never read Willy's posts anymore so I never know what he blabbers about till someone else comments on his idiocy. It is true his accusations are scurrilous and untrue. And it may be Alex and Rick haven't commented on them because they delete his posts unread like me. True, but it has nothing to do with you. I just don’t have time to read many posts. And regarding what Willy wrote, which just came to my attention: cool it Willy or we will have to boot you. Accusing people of federal crimes on a public forum, or at least this one, is not permissible.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Accusing people of federal crimes on a public forum, or at least this one, is not permissible. Rick Archer obviously doesn't read the posts of MJ either.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/7/2014 5:34 PM, 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: And regarding what Willy wrote, which just came to my attention: cool it Willy or we will have to boot you. Accusing people of federal crimes on a public forum, or at least this one, is not permissible. You suck as a moderator, Rick. Go figure. No drugs, are you kidding? Do you know how many people at MUM do all kinds of dope and have since it was MIU? Subject: Unexpected Effects of Pot Farms Author: Michael Jackson Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:07:49 -0700 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg285869.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/7/2014 5:41 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: Accusing people of federal crimes on a public forum, or at least this one, is not permissible. Rick Archer obviously doesn't read the posts of MJ either. Or the TurquoiseB. Go figure. Michael Jackson wrote: Oh yes you are right. all the MUM students immediately cease taking dope the minute they graduate MUM Hey, don't knock drugs. If Mickey Mouse sells them, how bad can they be? Subject: Unexpected Effects of Pot Farms Author: turquoiseb Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 05:19:26 -0700 Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg285907.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/7/2014 10:25 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It is true his accusations are scurrilous and untrue.. Hagelin is one of the main guys the TMO and Lynch use to promote TM to whomever they think will bite - if he has mis-used his position as a faculty member to prey on his female students, the truth needs to be known. Subject: BatGap Panel Discussion Author: Michael Jackson Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 09:32:57 -0700 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279815.html
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
punditster is talking about the President of MUM, if anyone would bother to read this in context - and it is OBVIOUSLY a joke. What are the other supposed Federal crimes that MJ is being accused of? This is just Barry stirring up shit, as usual. The guy is a two year old. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:26 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Thanks for having my back Turq. As I said a couple days ago, I actually never read Willy's posts anymore so I never know what he blabbers about till someone else comments on his idiocy. It is true his accusations are scurrilous and untrue. And it may be Alex and Rick haven't commented on them because they delete his posts unread like me. True, but it has nothing to do with you. I just don’t have time to read many posts. And regarding what Willy wrote, which just came to my attention: cool it Willy or we will have to boot you. Accusing people of federal crimes on a public forum, or at least this one, is not permissible.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
**The one thing /we do know/ is that MJ, in a trance-induction state, baked cupcakes and served them to poor students in the MIU cafeteria, resulting in at least one cult leader becoming obese. What we /don't know/ is how much pot and hash MJ put into the confections, or if he didn't put enough. It could be that he horded most of the weed in his pod and shared it with some of the female students and plied them with cheap beer every night. It may that these are some of the reason MJ was kicked off the campus in the middle of the night and had to call his parents to get a bus ticket back to where he came from. /We also know for sure/ that MJ didn't do much in the way of academic study at the religious school, but he may have prayed on his hands and knees inside a golden dome on a few occasions. Go figure. On 8/7/2014 8:54 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: OK, Rick and Alex...WTF? If this isn't using Fairfield Life to smear the name, reputation and potential livelihood of another FFL poster, what is? Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Go figure. Hey, let me double down: I say it's absolutely true that he was an adulterer. THERE, now let him sue me. I got the money and the time to rake him over the coals. I bet I could get hundreds of witnesses. It would be spectacular! Subject: BatGap Panel Discussion Author: Duveyoung Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 08:48:34 -0700 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279800.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/7/2014 8:54 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Richard Williams is actually accusing Michael on a publicly published forum of several *Federal fucking crimes*, ferchrssakes. None of this shit ever happened, and he knows it. Yet he writes it anyway. This is the legal dictionary definition of libel. It was a joke about the anonymous impostor Michael Jackson putting pot in the cupcakes when he was a baker at MIU. Everyone knows that Michael Jackson was dead at the time. It is a fact that the impostor slandered John Hegelin and should be prosecuted for slander, if not banned from the group. Go figure. Did you ask him about his practice of targeting his female students as sex partners? Subject: John Hegelin: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump Author: Michael Jackson Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:21:47 -0800 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg303833.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/7/2014 7:28 PM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: punditster is talking about the Presidentof MUM, if anyone would bother to read this in context - and it is OBVIOUSLY a joke. What are the other supposed Federal crimes that MJ is being accused of? This is just Barry stirring up shit, as usual. The guy is a two year old. According to MJ's own postings, almost everyone on staff at MIU was a pot head and a party animal and a sex addict, up to and including the President of the University. If this is untrue we should all demand a retraction and ban MJ from the group for at least a day or two. I'm surprised MJ hasn't been sued by now, but apparently nobody knows who he is. Go figure. All I want to know is who put the pot in the cupcakes? Was it the baker or the President of the University? If there was any pot smoking at MIU back then, it would have to have been supplied by someone with good connections and money. Obviously the staff couldn't smoke the weed in their pod or in the cafeteria. The impostor MJ was probably just trying to act like a big shot by finking out his friends on FFL for supposedly using dope on the job or after work. If true, how would he know about it if he wasn't involved - and when did he know it and why didn't he report it to the campus police? So, why is the impostor MJ then trying to blame it on me - I wasn't even there! Obviously it was MJ on top of the golden dome though. Go figure. ...and from the MUM secrets posts, they take license to smoke plenty of dope and have sex on top of the Domes - bet that makes Buck's meditations ever so much more better. Subject: Unexpected Effects of Pot Farms Author: Michael Jackson Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 08:49:09 -0700 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg285828.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticism is science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even using the same city over and over again for a study has many issues. Fred Travis' thesis research on interpersonal EEG coherence (the ME between two people) would be a better route to go, but he was forced to use averages of EEG statistics over a period of many seconds, and it turns out that there is a ceiling effect on that specific measure which makes it unlikely to find the effect consistently. So... what to do? As I pointed out before, there's
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? I would suggest that TM is more like the religion that claims it's not a religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth. :-) How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. Who would *admit* to believing it, outside of a closed TM-only environment? The TM governor you speak of might claim to believe it while talking with other members of the religion/cult, just so as to not make waves, but be honest about not believing it when talking to more rational people such as yourself. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. Many of us have wondered this. :-) In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... Exactly. In a way, this is a parallel to current discussions of the Israeli-Gaza conflict. Criticize the policies and the actions of the State Of Israel and the Zionist cultists go crazy and start claiming that anyone doing so is an anti-semite and advocating the destruction of Judaism. On the other hand, the rabbi whose essay I posted the other day nailed what's really happening -- the current State Of Israel is what is destroying Judaism. By setting themselves and their greed and bloodlust up as what Jews are all about, they are making it difficult even for *other Jews* to agree with them. Similarly, by abusing science and pretending that his cult nonsense constitutes science, John Hagelin is doing more to destroy TM and be anti-science than anyone else. ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... That's the bottom line that no one here is really responding to. The TM organization has *more than enough* money to gather as large a group of butt-bouncers as they think are necessary to create measurable effects. They've had the money to do this for decades. But they don't do it. Looks to me as if none of *them* really believe in the ME either. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 2:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? -Buck LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even using the same city over and over again for a study has many issues. Fred Travis' thesis research on interpersonal EEG coherence (the ME between two people) would be a better route to go, but he was forced to use averages of EEG statistics over a period of many seconds, and it turns out that there is a ceiling effect on that specific measure which makes it unlikely to find the effect consistently. So... what to do? As I pointed out before, there's a more sophisticated way of analyzing global EEG called EEG microstates, where the average electrical activation of the brain can be examined in tiny slices of time, down to as low as 2-10 milliseconds per slice. That is easily 400x the resolution that Fred used in his original study. The people in charge of the TM organization are well aware of how the ME research is viewed by most non-believers, but there's been no way to satisfy genuine concerns like independent replication until now. The DC experiment not only cost the TM organization several million to conduct, but it required coordinating the lives of 4,000 Sidhas. This is NOT something that can ever be replicated on a regular basis, no matter what kind of resources you have and you can't expect the average skeptical scientist to arrange to do such research, either. When the upcoming EEG microstate research on TM is published, if it turns out that there is a definite pattern associated with pure consciousness, it may be possible to redo Fred Travis' original research with as many as 400x the number of data points in a given TM session. I don't know offhand, how much more sensitive this would make a specific study, but I'm pretty sure it is a LOT more sensitive... ...tried just now to plug various values into online statistical calculators, and it looks like having 400x as many data points roughly makes a given simple experiment 400x as sensitive (sorta -there might be a square-root in there, but it looks like it is a lot more than 20x as sensitive so not sure)... John Hagelin obviously realizes the points above. He was giving the standard party line to me earlier this year about how the research into the ME is reliable, etc., but when I started to point out that there would be potentially 400x as many data points as was available in Fred Travis' experiments and that this meant fully independent skeptics could conduct their own very cheap experiments, he kinda got excited and interrupted me about halfway through my spiel, saying he would talk to Fred Travis about it. Lawson ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Maharishi's technologies for creating peace was demonstrated again
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
OK, one last time because I have said this before. People on earth are stupid and gullible, but not all of them and all of them are not COMPLETELY stupid. Ergo, IF the Marshy Effect was real and as effective as Johnnie Hagelin claims then millions of people around the world would have latched onto it. This would be particularly true of all Third World countries. Most of them may be run by utterly corrupt and venal individuals, some of them totally selfish and cruel, but most of them are not completely stupid. IF the Marshy Effect were as effective at stopping wars and preventing enemies to be born every single Third World country would mandate by law that every citizen and every visitor to the country would have to practice TMSP twice each day. To not do so would be insane. To do so would insure that no wars would occur, and no foreign influence could take from the country what is rightfully theirs. When the success of the Third World countries was obvious through TMSP, all the developed countries would mandate the practice of TMSP also and everyone would be a siddha or governor. The fact that that has not happened is proof the ME is hawg shit, so unless you boys can come up with better proof than See! The crime rate is 18% lower than it would have been if we had not been doin' program! We have a vedic crystal ball that Marshy gave us before he died that we can tell what the crime rate would-a been, so believe us and give us more money! then shut up cause its all made up bullshit. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even using the same city over and over again for a study has many issues. Fred Travis' thesis research on interpersonal EEG coherence (the ME between two people) would be a better route to go, but he was forced to use averages of EEG statistics over a period of many seconds, and it turns out that there is a ceiling effect on that specific measure which makes it unlikely to find the effect
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 6:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. So, let's talk about gullibility. The person levitating or flying through the air was a guy named Frederick Lenz, who also called himself Rama http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 *From:* dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even using the same city over and over again for a study has many issues. Fred Travis' thesis research on interpersonal EEG coherence (the ME between two people) would be a better route to go, but he was forced to use averages of EEG statistics over a period of many seconds, and it turns out that there is a ceiling effect on that specific measure which makes it unlikely to find the effect consistently. So... what to do? As I pointed out before, there's a more sophisticated way of analyzing global EEG called EEG microstates, where the average electrical activation of the brain can be examined in tiny slices of time, down to as low as 2-10 milliseconds per slice. That is easily 400x the resolution that Fred used in his original study. The people in charge of the TM organization are well aware of how the ME research is viewed by most non-believers, but there's been no way to satisfy genuine concerns like independent replication until now. The DC experiment not only cost the TM organization several million to conduct, but it required coordinating the lives of 4,000 Sidhas. This is NOT something that can ever be replicated
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : OK, one last time because I have said this before. People on earth are stupid and gullible, but not all of them and all of them are not COMPLETELY stupid. Ergo, IF the Marshy Effect was real and as effective as Johnnie Hagelin claims then millions of people around the world would have latched onto it. This would be particularly true of all Third World countries. Most of them may be run by utterly corrupt and venal individuals, some of them totally selfish and cruel, but most of them are not completely stupid. IF the Marshy Effect were as effective at stopping wars and preventing enemies to be born every single Third World country would mandate by law that every citizen and every visitor to the country would have to practice TMSP twice each day. To not do so would be insane. To do so would insure that no wars would occur, and no foreign influence could take from the country what is rightfully theirs. When the success of the Third World countries was obvious through TMSP, all the developed countries would mandate the practice of TMSP also and everyone would be a siddha or governor. The fact that that has not happened is proof the ME is hawg shit, so unless you boys can come up with better proof than See! The crime rate is 18% lower than it would have been if we had not been doin' program! We have a vedic crystal ball that Marshy gave us before he died that we can tell what the crime rate would-a been, so believe us and give us more money! then shut up cause its all made up bullshit. Is there something missing in my DNA because I just don't care about any of this one way or another. I don't care if people think there is a ME, I don't care if it has been scientifically proven and I'm certainly too disinterested to get into an actual discussion about it let alone excited enough to argue about it all. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticism is science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Why didn't you tell Buck that instead of me? From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : OK, one last time because I have said this before. People on earth are stupid and gullible, but not all of them and all of them are not COMPLETELY stupid. Ergo, IF the Marshy Effect was real and as effective as Johnnie Hagelin claims then millions of people around the world would have latched onto it. This would be particularly true of all Third World countries. Most of them may be run by utterly corrupt and venal individuals, some of them totally selfish and cruel, but most of them are not completely stupid. IF the Marshy Effect were as effective at stopping wars and preventing enemies to be born every single Third World country would mandate by law that every citizen and every visitor to the country would have to practice TMSP twice each day. To not do so would be insane. To do so would insure that no wars would occur, and no foreign influence could take from the country what is rightfully theirs. When the success of the Third World countries was obvious through TMSP, all the developed countries would mandate the practice of TMSP also and everyone would be a siddha or governor. The fact that that has not happened is proof the ME is hawg shit, so unless you boys can come up with better proof than See! The crime rate is 18% lower than it would have been if we had not been doin' program! We have a vedic crystal ball that Marshy gave us before he died that we can tell what the crime rate would-a been, so believe us and give us more money! then shut up cause its all made up bullshit. Is there something missing in my DNA because I just don't care about any of this one way or another. I don't care if people think there is a ME, I don't care if it has been scientifically proven and I'm certainly too disinterested to get into an actual discussion about it let alone excited enough to argue about it all. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. On 8/6/2014 6:52 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. Your friend probably doesn't realize that the mental health act doesn't apply to people who believe in the power of prayer. However, somebody that claims in public to have witnessed levitation hundreds of times might be cause for someone to think maybe an exception might be made in some cases. You don't seem to want to talk about the elephant in the room - I wonder why not? What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... *From:* dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Contrary to the angry monkeys on here (Sal and Barry), I find it fascinating that crime, war casualties, and violence in general continues to go down, statistically, both in the US and globally. And you know what? No one can figure out why. If not the ME, then pray tell, angry monkeys, what is it? Any unscientific guesses? Any conjectures, borne out of thin air? I'm sticking with the Maharishi Effect. Have a banana. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticism is science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
I agree - I was surprised that Bucky would say something about proving darshan - but maybe he was joking. But then he hardly ever jokes about his saintly stuff. I wonder if he takes an iPod w/speakers out in the pastures and plays gandharva veda tunes to his sheep? From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
As Ann and I agreed yesterday, it is the reformed cult addicts that are the most obnoxious. Barry leads the charge - I think he was even more heavily brainwashed than MJ was. Both wasted so much of their lives, brown-nosing those they believed were more spiritual, and now continue to waste even more years, railing against that which they became, and now sorely regret. Pathetic, and truly sad. I cannot imagine Barry's state of mind when he sobers up - frightful, no doubt. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. On 8/6/2014 6:52 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. Your friend probably doesn't realize that the mental health act doesn't apply to people who believe in the power of prayer. However, somebody that claims in public to have witnessed levitation hundreds of times might be cause for someone to think maybe an exception might be made in some cases. You don't seem to want to talk about the elephant in the room - I wonder why not? What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticism is science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 7:20 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: What!? I think you are supposed to copy and paste something into the reply text box BEFORE you press Send, Barry. Go figure. *From:* salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? I would suggest that TM is more like the religion that claims it's not a religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth. :-) How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. Who would *admit* to believing it, outside of a closed TM-only environment? The TM governor you speak of might claim to believe it while talking with other members of the religion/cult, just so as to not make waves, but be honest about not believing it when talking to more rational people such as yourself. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. Many of us have wondered this. :-) In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... Exactly. In a way, this is a parallel to current discussions of the Israeli-Gaza conflict. Criticize the policies and the actions of the State Of Israel and the Zionist cultists go crazy and start claiming that anyone doing so is an anti-semite and advocating the destruction of Judaism. On the other hand, the rabbi whose essay I posted the other day nailed what's really happening -- the current State Of Israel is what is destroying Judaism. By setting themselves and their greed and bloodlust up as what Jews are all about, they are making it difficult even for *other Jews* to agree with them. Similarly, by abusing science and pretending that his cult nonsense constitutes science, John Hagelin is doing more to destroy TM and be anti-science than anyone else. ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... That's the bottom line that no one here is really responding to. The TM organization has *more than enough* money to gather as large a group of butt-bouncers as they think are necessary to create measurable effects. They've had the money to do this for decades. But they don't do it. Looks to me as if none of *them* really believe in the ME either. *From:* dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I agree - I was surprised that Bucky would say something about proving darshan - but maybe he was joking. But then he hardly ever jokes about his saintly stuff. I wonder if he takes an iPod w/speakers out in the pastures and plays gandharva veda tunes to his sheep? Ah, the things people do for their sheep... :-) From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 8:14 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: OK, one last time because I have said this before. People on earth are stupid and gullible, but not all of them and all of them are not COMPLETELY stupid. Ergo, IF the Marshy Effect was real and as effective as Johnnie Hagelin claims then millions of people around the world would have latched onto it. Belief in the power of prayer is an almost universal belief - what planet do you come from? Go figure. This would be particularly true of all Third World countries. Most of them may be run by utterly corrupt and venal individuals, some of them totally selfish and cruel, but most of them are not completely stupid. IF the Marshy Effect were as effective at stopping wars and preventing enemies to be born every single Third World country would mandate by law that every citizen and every visitor to the country would have to practice TMSP twice each day. To not do so would be insane. To do so would insure that no wars would occur, and no foreign influence could take from the country what is rightfully theirs. When the success of the Third World countries was obvious through TMSP, all the developed countries would mandate the practice of TMSP also and everyone would be a siddha or governor. The fact that that has not happened is proof the ME is hawg shit, so unless you boys can come up with better proof than See! The crime rate is 18% lower than it would have been if we had not been doin' program! We have a vedic crystal ball that Marshy gave us before he died that we can tell what the crime rate would-a been, so believe us and give us more money! then shut up cause its all made up bullshit. *From:* dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:04 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even using the same city over and over again for a study has many issues. Fred Travis' thesis research on interpersonal EEG coherence (the ME between two people) would
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 8:16 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? It is a fact needing no further proof that the first sight of another person's face can determine the outcome of an entire day. *From:* salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies. -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even using the same city over and over again for a study has many issues. Fred Travis' thesis research on interpersonal EEG coherence (the ME between two people) would be a better route to go, but he was forced to use averages of EEG statistics over a period of many seconds, and it turns out that there is a ceiling effect on that specific measure which makes it unlikely to find the effect consistently. So... what to do? As I pointed out before, there's a more sophisticated way of analyzing global EEG called EEG microstates, where the average electrical activation of the brain can be examined in tiny slices of time, down to as low as 2-10 milliseconds per slice. That is easily 400x the resolution that Fred used in his original study. The people in charge of the TM organization are well aware of how the ME research is viewed by most non-believers, but there's been no way to satisfy genuine concerns like independent replication until now. The DC experiment not only cost the TM organization several million to conduct, but it required coordinating the lives of 4,000 Sidhas. This is NOT something that can ever be replicated on a regular basis, no matter
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 9:06 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Why didn't you tell Buck that instead of me? Why are you such a lazy top-poster? Go figure. *From:* awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:45 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : OK, one last time because I have said this before. People on earth are stupid and gullible, but not all of them and all of them are not COMPLETELY stupid. Ergo, IF the Marshy Effect was real and as effective as Johnnie Hagelin claims then millions of people around the world would have latched onto it. This would be particularly true of all Third World countries. Most of them may be run by utterly corrupt and venal individuals, some of them totally selfish and cruel, but most of them are not completely stupid. IF the Marshy Effect were as effective at stopping wars and preventing enemies to be born every single Third World country would mandate by law that every citizen and every visitor to the country would have to practice TMSP twice each day. To not do so would be insane. To do so would insure that no wars would occur, and no foreign influence could take from the country what is rightfully theirs. When the success of the Third World countries was obvious through TMSP, all the developed countries would mandate the practice of TMSP also and everyone would be a siddha or governor. The fact that that has not happened is proof the ME is hawg shit, so unless you boys can come up with better proof than See! The crime rate is 18% lower than it would have been if we had not been doin' program! We have a vedic crystal ball that Marshy gave us before he died that we can tell what the crime rate would-a been, so believe us and give us more money! then shut up cause its all made up bullshit. Is there something missing in my DNA because I just don't care about any of this one way or another. I don't care if people think there is a ME, I don't care if it has been scientifically proven and I'm certainly too disinterested to get into an actual discussion about it let alone excited enough to argue about it all. *From:* dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:04 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 8:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. You are late getting to work! We've covered this already about the grain bin in Fairfield and the pundit riot and that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up. What we want to know is when you went over to the other side. When exactly, did you turn on your friends and become a fink? Almost everyone on this list knows you are an impostor. And, we already know you're working for Knapp and TM-Free and that you are a Bronte plant, but how much are you getting paid to be an informant? The least you could do is post some new rumors to discuss and give the lurking reporters something new to write about. You don't even seem to be able to respond to the topic at hand. Have you ever considered just starting your own thread? You're showing sure signs of compulsive obsession or ADD. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? Where indeed. This is really sick shit, Richard. You *know* that every claim you make here about Michael is not true, but you post it anyway. In other words, you choose to lie about another human being just because he dissed your beliefs and you feel like lashing out. That's insane. If anyone needs the services of Dr. Pete (a former poster to FFL, and our only real, practicing psychologist), it's you. Do you really not *get* how sick this stuff you do is?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 9:08 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I agree - I was surprised that Bucky would say something about proving darshan - but maybe he was joking. But then he hardly ever jokes about his saintly stuff. I wonder if he takes an iPod w/speakers out in the pastures and plays gandharva veda tunes to his sheep? So, I'd say you're living proof that darshan exists since you've apparently made such an impression on Knapp and Gina over on TM-Free. I wonder how much money Knapp makes off the ads on his site? You should be getting a cut, but how much? Go figure. *From:* awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:52 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. *From:* salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 9:11 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Contrary to the angry monkeys on here (Sal and Barry), I find it fascinating that crime, war casualties, and violence in general continues to go down, statistically, both in the US and globally. And you know what? No one can figure out why. If not the ME, then pray tell, angry monkeys, what is it? Any unscientific guesses? Any conjectures, borne out of thin air? I'm sticking with the Maharishi Effect. Have a banana. My theory is that an increase in communication can often lead to increased understanding and cooperation and that leads to a more peaceful co-existence. The problem is that some people don't want to negotiate and they prefer violence to further their ends in order to gain power and control over others. The Maharishi Effect restated, is just smart diplomacy - some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to. Apparently it is working. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... *From:* dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Why didn't you tell Buck that instead of me? I was telling the world as we know it at FFL. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : OK, one last time because I have said this before. People on earth are stupid and gullible, but not all of them and all of them are not COMPLETELY stupid. Ergo, IF the Marshy Effect was real and as effective as Johnnie Hagelin claims then millions of people around the world would have latched onto it. This would be particularly true of all Third World countries. Most of them may be run by utterly corrupt and venal individuals, some of them totally selfish and cruel, but most of them are not completely stupid. IF the Marshy Effect were as effective at stopping wars and preventing enemies to be born every single Third World country would mandate by law that every citizen and every visitor to the country would have to practice TMSP twice each day. To not do so would be insane. To do so would insure that no wars would occur, and no foreign influence could take from the country what is rightfully theirs. When the success of the Third World countries was obvious through TMSP, all the developed countries would mandate the practice of TMSP also and everyone would be a siddha or governor. The fact that that has not happened is proof the ME is hawg shit, so unless you boys can come up with better proof than See! The crime rate is 18% lower than it would have been if we had not been doin' program! We have a vedic crystal ball that Marshy gave us before he died that we can tell what the crime rate would-a been, so believe us and give us more money! then shut up cause its all made up bullshit. Is there something missing in my DNA because I just don't care about any of this one way or another. I don't care if people think there is a ME, I don't care if it has been scientifically proven and I'm certainly too disinterested to get into an actual discussion about it let alone excited enough to argue about it all. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me anti-science? Criticism is science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
There are theories about the drop of crime. The Maharishi Effect though is not scientifically rigorous. Buck's problem is he does not understand that scientific thought and procedure is essentially the antithesis of religious thinking. An interesting idea has appeared that lead poisoning was the cause of the crime epidemic and that as the use of leaded gasoline has declined so has the effect of lead poisoning (element Pb, atomic number 82 on the human nervous system. http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/ This theory at the moment is not scientifically rigorous, but it has a very plausible mechanism in terms of known science (as opposed to pseudoscience) to explain the observed effects. ..if econometric studies were all there were to the story of lead, you’d be justified in remaining skeptical no matter how good the statistics look ... even moderately high levels of lead exposure are associated with aggressivity, impulsivity, ADHD, and lower IQ. And right there, you’ve practically defined the profile of a violent young offender. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline Did removing lead from petrol spark a decline in crime? http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615 Did removing lead from petrol spark a decline in crime? http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615 Many Western nations have experienced significant declines in crime in recent decades, but could the removal of lead from petrol explain that? View on www.bbc.com http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615 Preview by Yahoo The Crimes Of Lead | February 3, 2014 Issue - Vol. 92 Issue 5 | Chemical Engineering News http://cen.acs.org/articles/92/i5/Crimes-Lead.html http://cen.acs.org/articles/92/i5/Crimes-Lead.html The Crimes Of Lead | February 3, 2014 Issue - Vol... http://cen.acs.org/articles/92/i5/Crimes-Lead.html [+]Enlarge LEAD’S LEGACY View on cen.acs.org http://cen.acs.org/articles/92/i5/Crimes-Lead.html Preview by Yahoo So in order to show that the ME is actually an effect, you also have to show that other, simpler and more plausible explanations are incorrect. The leaded gasoline theory accounts for approximately 90% of the drop in crime. - ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Contrary to the angry monkeys on here (Sal and Barry), I find it fascinating that crime, war casualties, and violence in general continues to go down, statistically, both in the US and globally. And you know what? No one can figure out why. If not the ME, then pray tell, angry monkeys, what is it? Any unscientific guesses? Any conjectures, borne out of thin air? I'm sticking with the Maharishi Effect. Have a banana. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. On 8/6/2014 6:52 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. Your friend probably doesn't realize that the mental health act doesn't apply to people who believe in the power of prayer. However, somebody that claims in public to have witnessed levitation hundreds of times might be cause for someone to think maybe an exception might be made in some cases. You don't seem to want to talk about the elephant in the room - I wonder why not? What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Good post. The lead theory certainly IS more believable than the ME theory. From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field There are theories about the drop of crime. The Maharishi Effect though is not scientifically rigorous. Buck's problem is he does not understand that scientific thought and procedure is essentially the antithesis of religious thinking. An interesting idea has appeared that lead poisoning was the cause of the crime epidemic and that as the use of leaded gasoline has declined so has the effect of lead poisoning (element Pb, atomic number 82 on the human nervous system. http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/ This theory at the moment is not scientifically rigorous, but it has a very plausible mechanism in terms of known science (as opposed to pseudoscience) to explain the observed effects. ..if econometric studies were all there were to the story of lead, you’d be justified in remaining skeptical no matter how good the statistics look ... even moderately high levels of lead exposure are associated with aggressivity, impulsivity, ADHD, and lower IQ. And right there, you’ve practically defined the profile of a violent young offender. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline Did removing lead from petrol spark a decline in crime? Did removing lead from petrol spark a decline in crime? Many Western nations have experienced significant declines in crime in recent decades, but could the removal of lead from petrol explain that? View on www.bbc.com Preview by Yahoo The Crimes Of Lead | February 3, 2014 Issue - Vol. 92 Issue 5 | Chemical Engineering News The Crimes Of Lead | February 3, 2014 Issue - Vol... [+]Enlarge LEAD’S LEGACY View on cen.acs.org Preview by Yahoo So in order to show that the ME is actually an effect, you also have to show that other, simpler and more plausible explanations are incorrect. The leaded gasoline theory accounts for approximately 90% of the drop in crime. - ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Contrary to the angry monkeys on here (Sal and Barry), I find it fascinating that crime, war casualties, and violence in general continues to go down, statistically, both in the US and globally. And you know what? No one can figure out why. If not the ME, then pray tell, angry monkeys, what is it? Any unscientific guesses? Any conjectures, borne out of thin air? I'm sticking with the Maharishi Effect. Have a banana. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 8:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. You are late getting to work! We've covered this already about the grain bin in Fairfield and the pundit riot and that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up. What we want to know is when you went over to the other side. When exactly, did you turn on your friends and become a fink? Almost everyone on this list knows you are an impostor. And, we already know you're working for Knapp and TM-Free and that you are a Bronte plant, but how much are you getting paid to be an informant? The least you could do is post some new rumors to discuss and give the lurking reporters something new to write about. You don't even seem to be able to respond to the topic at hand. Have you ever considered just starting your own thread? You're showing sure signs of compulsive obsession or ADD. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? Where indeed. This is really sick shit, Richard. You *know* that every claim you make here about Michael is not true, but you post it anyway. In other words, you choose to lie about another human being just because he dissed your beliefs and you feel like lashing out. That's insane. If anyone needs the services of Dr. Pete (a former poster to FFL, and our only real, practicing psychologist), it's you. Do you really not *get* how sick this stuff you do is? O bawee, come on now. So outraged, so self righteous. Puh-lezze. How many lies and libelous things have you written here about so many others including me? You don't know? You don't realize? You can't stop being a hypocrite? Forget the IQ test, what you need is a lie detector test or at least a bullshit-o-meter.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
What is it with you that you can't cope with a bit of rigorous thinking and plain speaking? It's weird, you get all tweaked and insulting and start calling everyone else angry. Go figure. I think the world is in a very parlous state at the moment but no, we don't have wars like we used to. The increase in advanced weapons put paid to direct conflict between large countries. The UN and increase in understanding and especially trade helps keep countries behaving civilly too. This is all reasonably well understood, quite a way from no one can figure out why. But it's still a massive shit hole for an extremely large and growing number of people though, maybe you don't get world news where you live. But you want to blame an unusual religious theory that has no known way it could work and has demonstrated no convincing evidence. And if it did work we'd have to rewrite physics, sociology, psychology etc. You may not understand the importance of any of this but a paradigm shift of that magnitude will require some serious weight of evidence. And that is exactly what isn't forthcoming. In fact, the best demonstration so far gave results that were indistinguishable from natural fluctuations in the crime rate, were less dramatic that a dip a few months previously when no one was meditating, and were nothing compared to the drop in crime levels a year later when more gentrification occurred and policing methods were changed. If you actually read my post - Buck didn't bother - you'd see that I was applauding Lawson for his new-found scepticism and his realisation that they are going to have to do a lot better if they are going to convince people that the laws of nature need a ground-up rewrite on the say-so of someone who thinks prayers can prevent earthquakes. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Contrary to the angry monkeys on here (Sal and Barry), I find it fascinating that crime, war casualties, and violence in general continues to go down, statistically, both in the US and globally. And you know what? No one can figure out why. If not the ME, then pray tell, angry monkeys, what is it? Any unscientific guesses? Any conjectures, borne out of thin air? I'm sticking with the Maharishi Effect. Have a banana. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 8:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. You are late getting to work! We've covered this already about the grain bin in Fairfield and the pundit riot and that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up. What we want to know is when you went over to the other side. When exactly, did you turn on your friends and become a fink? Almost everyone on this list knows you are an impostor. And, we already know you're working for Knapp and TM-Free and that you are a Bronte plant, but how much are you getting paid to be an informant? The least you could do is post some new rumors to discuss and give the lurking reporters something new to write about. You don't even seem to be able to respond to the topic at hand. Have you ever considered just starting your own thread? You're showing sure signs of compulsive obsession or ADD. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? Where indeed. This is really sick shit, Richard. No kidding, I usually avoid Willytex's posts for obvious reasons but he's really flailing about here, it's like watching a car crash. Exciting but disturbing. You *know* that every claim you make here about Michael is not true, but you post it anyway. In other words, you choose to lie about another human being just because he dissed your beliefs and you feel like lashing out. That's insane. If anyone needs the services of Dr. Pete (a former poster to FFL, and our only real, practicing psychologist), it's you. Do you really not *get* how sick this stuff you do is?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Actually I began deleting Willy's posts unread since he is really bizarre and makes shit up out of thin air. I think he became brain damaged from wearing a Buddhist stupa on his head for so long. So I am only aware of his remarks when someone else comments on them. Willy's one dubious claim to fame is that he cloned himself and that claone calls himself Steve. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 8:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. You are late getting to work! We've covered this already about the grain bin in Fairfield and the pundit riot and that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up. What we want to know is when you went over to the other side. When exactly, did you turn on your friends and become a fink? Almost everyone on this list knows you are an impostor. And, we already know you're working for Knapp and TM-Free and that you are a Bronte plant, but how much are you getting paid to be an informant? The least you could do is post some new rumors to discuss and give the lurking reporters something new to write about. You don't even seem to be able to respond to the topic at hand. Have you ever considered just starting your own thread? You're showing sure signs of compulsive obsession or ADD. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? Where indeed. This is really sick shit, Richard. You *know* that every claim you make here about Michael is not true, but you post it anyway. In other words, you choose to lie about another human being just because he dissed your beliefs and you feel like lashing out. That's insane. If anyone needs the services of Dr. Pete (a former poster to FFL, and our only real, practicing psychologist), it's you. Do you really not *get* how sick this stuff you do is?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : *From:* 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 8:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. You are late getting to work! We've covered this already about the grain bin in Fairfield and the pundit riot and that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up. What we want to know is when you went over to the other side. When exactly, did you turn on your friends and become a fink? Almost everyone on this list knows you are an impostor. And, we already know you're working for Knapp and TM-Free and that you are a Bronte plant, but how much are you getting paid to be an informant? The least you could do is post some new rumors to discuss and give the lurking reporters something new to write about. You don't even seem to be able to respond to the topic at hand. Have you ever considered just starting your own thread? You're showing sure signs of compulsive obsession or ADD. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? Where indeed. This is really sick shit, Richard. You *know* that every claim you make here about Michael is not true, but you post it anyway. In other words, you choose to lie about another human being just because he dissed your beliefs and you feel like lashing out. That's insane. If anyone needs the services of Dr. Pete (a former poster to FFL, and our only real, practicing psychologist), it's you. Do you really not *get* how sick this stuff you do is? On 8/6/2014 10:12 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: *O bawee, come on now. So outraged, so self righteous. Puh-lezze. How many lies and libelous things have you written here about so many others including me? You don't know? You don't realize? You can't stop being a hypocrite? Forget the IQ test, what you need is a lie detector test or at least a bullshit-o-meter.* Like. Your idea about the lie-detector test is brilliant! When Judy gets back from her vacation we can get her to administer it to the TB. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 10:58 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : *From:* 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 8:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. You are late getting to work! We've covered this already about the grain bin in Fairfield and the pundit riot and that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up. What we want to know is when you went over to the other side. When exactly, did you turn on your friends and become a fink? Almost everyone on this list knows you are an impostor. And, we already know you're working for Knapp and TM-Free and that you are a Bronte plant, but how much are you getting paid to be an informant? The least you could do is post some new rumors to discuss and give the lurking reporters something new to write about. You don't even seem to be able to respond to the topic at hand. Have you ever considered just starting your own thread? You're showing sure signs of compulsive obsession or ADD. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? Where indeed. This is really sick shit, Richard. No kidding, I usually avoid Willytex's posts for obvious reasons but he's really flailing about here, it's like watching a car crash. Exciting but disturbing. You don't seem to have any important news to share, but at least you seem to be monitoring the discussion about cognitive dissonance. You've got two good examples right here on the forum for a scientific study. Apparently they both crashed years ago, but it is interesting watching the re-runs. Apparently they are both still in a trance-induction state. Go figure. What is disturbing about this is the disassociation put on display by some of the FFL informants - like the two guys who were deepest into the cult activity - what's up with all the paranormal claims? There's nothing worse than a reformed addict preaching all the time about how his 12-step program is better than yours. Why do the guilty always seem to scream the loudest? You *know* that every claim you make here about Michael is not true, but you post it anyway. In other words, you choose to lie about another human being just because he dissed your beliefs and you feel like lashing out. That's insane. If anyone needs the services of Dr. Pete (a former poster to FFL, and our only real, practicing psychologist), it's you. Do you really not *get* how sick this stuff you do is?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 11:21 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Actually I began deleting Willy's posts unread since he is really bizarre and makes shit up out of thin air. /Actually, /you began by posting that you lived in a pod for two years and that you baked cupcakes in a student cafeteria at a religious school and gave them to your cult leader - I didn't make that up. That alone would cause almost anyone to question your state of mind. Maybe you were in a trance-induction state - who knows? Based on what you posted, it's not a stretch to assume that you were highly prone to the suggestions of others. It looks like you're experiencing disassociation and having some cognitive dissonance. Get a grip! You're the guy posing as a reporter for Knapp's TM-Free. I think he became brain damaged from wearing a Buddhist stupa on his head for so long. So, you prayed twice a day down on your hands and knees inside a golden dome for two solid years in a failed attempt to fly, but Willy is brain damaged? Go figure. So I am only aware of his remarks when someone else comments on them. Willy's one dubious claim to fame is that he cloned himself and that claone calls himself Steve. /Now this is funny/ - a guy poses as Michael Jackson and then claims Willy is a clone. You can't make this stuff up - the gift that just keeps on giving. LoL! *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:40 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field *From:* 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field On 8/6/2014 8:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com mailto:mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: The fact that the Heartland Project is taking place right there in Fairfield, the fact that he peace creating pundits riot right there in Fairfield, the fact that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up right there in Fairfield is proof enough for me that the Marshy Effect is hog manure. You are late getting to work! We've covered this already about the grain bin in Fairfield and the pundit riot and that lots of siddha/governor businesses go belly up. What we want to know is when you went over to the other side. When exactly, did you turn on your friends and become a fink? Almost everyone on this list knows you are an impostor. And, we already know you're working for Knapp and TM-Free and that you are a Bronte plant, but how much are you getting paid to be an informant? The least you could do is post some new rumors to discuss and give the lurking reporters something new to write about. You don't even seem to be able to respond to the topic at hand. Have you ever considered just starting your own thread? You're showing sure signs of compulsive obsession or ADD. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? Where indeed. This is really sick shit, Richard. You *know* that every claim you make here about Michael is not true, but you post it anyway. In other words, you choose to lie about another human being just because he dissed your beliefs and you feel like lashing out. That's insane. If anyone needs the services of Dr. Pete (a former poster to FFL, and our only real, practicing psychologist), it's you. Do you really not *get* how sick this stuff you do is?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
On 8/6/2014 11:27 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Anyone who can see the pundit riot and the Heartland Project growing in Fairfield and still believe in the Marshy Effect Without the TMSP, you might have been allowed to bake bad bread in the school kitchen for years. is a schnook, a schmoe and a schmuck. Without the TMSP, the grain bin might have been built downtown and the pundit riot might have happened right on the MUM campus. *From:* salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 11:48 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field What is it with you that you can't cope with a bit of rigorous thinking and plain speaking? It's weird, you get all tweaked and insulting and start calling everyone else angry. Go figure. I think the world is in a very parlous state at the moment but no, we don't have wars like we used to. The increase in advanced weapons put paid to direct conflict between large countries. The UN and increase in understanding and especially trade helps keep countries behaving civilly too. This is all reasonably well understood, quite a way from no one can figure out why. But it's still a massive shit hole for an extremely large and growing number of people though, maybe you don't get world news where you live. But you want to blame an unusual religious theory that has no known way it could work and has demonstrated no convincing evidence. And if it did work we'd have to rewrite physics, sociology, psychology etc. You may not understand the importance of any of this but a paradigm shift of that magnitude will require some serious weight of evidence. And that is exactly what isn't forthcoming. In fact, the best demonstration so far gave results that were indistinguishable from natural fluctuations in the crime rate, were less dramatic that a dip a few months previously when no one was meditating, and were nothing compared to the drop in crime levels a year later when more gentrification occurred and policing methods were changed. If you actually read my post - Buck didn't bother - you'd see that I was applauding Lawson for his new-found scepticism and his realisation that they are going to have to do a lot better if they are going to convince people that the laws of nature need a ground-up rewrite on the say-so of someone who thinks prayers can prevent earthquakes. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Contrary to the angry monkeys on here (Sal and Barry), I find it fascinating that crime, war casualties, and violence in general continues to go down, statistically, both in the US and globally. And you know what? No one can figure out why. If not the ME, then pray tell, angry monkeys, what is it? Any unscientific guesses? Any conjectures, borne out of thin air? I'm sticking with the Maharishi Effect. Have a banana. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Buck's off his anti-cult-mentality meds again. For most people on the planet, the issue is not proving that a bunch of people bouncing on their butts can lower crime, affect the weather, and create world peace, but the fact that some people are so out of it that they actually believed it could in the first place. That degree of gullibility is what needs to be researched, not the ME. I wonder if hardcore TM is the religion with the smallest set of believers on Earth? How many really believe that a field effect in consciousness can lower crime etc, even with no evidence? Must be in the few thousands at most. Hell, I know a TM governor in the UK who doesn't believe it. I was discussing John Hagelin with a physicist I know the other day, I explained about how he thinks prayers can prevent Earthquakes and tea leaves can predict the future and that it's all to do with quantum super-position. My friend wondered why he hasn't been detained under the mental health act. In case Buck starts crying about me being anti-science here, I would say that it's JH who is abusing the known principles of science and particularly those that he got his PHD in, and that this is just the sort of drivel that keeps people from taking the ME seriously. Not that it's any magnitude of sanity higher than yagya's of course... ...but it is easily testable. So go to it! Again... *From:* dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:04 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Yes quite
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Darshan doesn't exist? Om ha, ha, ha! That's funny, someone on the side sent me a picture today of Karunamayi having gold vibuti coming out her hand while she is holding her hand up. Om ye of little experience and therefore little faith, you are pitiful. -Buck steve.sundur writes: You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
What!? On 8/6/2014 8:53 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. *From:* steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. *From:* salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Data, Observation, Hypothesis and Test. Quite evidently it [the Meissner Effect of Consciousness] was hypothesized, data gathered, tested and demonstrated quite well statistically. You quite evidently are just saying what you are saying as part of your own emotionally damaged anti-science anti-intellectual very personal PR program against TM and spirituality. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck mjackson74 writes: The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Thinking back to my time with M, I'm not sure if I felt much of what might be termed darshan. There may have been a lot of power of suggestion going on that produced some of that feeling. I remember seeing both Ammachi and Karunamayi in person, once each, and not feeling much in the way of darshan either. I guess, what is strange, is that now, when I reflect on the times I was with MMY personally, I seem to feel it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Darshan doesn't exist? Om ha, ha, ha! That's funny, someone on the side sent me a picture today of Karunamayi having gold vibuti coming out her hand while she is holding her hand up. Om ye of little experience and therefore little faith, you are pitiful. -Buck steve.sundur writes: You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
You have no idea what effect meditation and practicing the siddhis in a large group may have. You trot out the fact that Fairfield is not an ideal place, or that it has not produced the desired effect in high profile demonstrations as proof that it is useless program. And you suggest that any benefits which one associates with the practice* are due to the power of suggestion. *Again, as has been pointed out, you exempt any particular new age teachings, or techniques that you may be embracing at the moment, and you are undecided, (according to you own words) about channeling. And if you feel that you may be in a position to benefit financially, as in promoting treatments for PTSD for veterans, then certainly you exempt those treatments, even it they have a new agey twinge about them.. As for your usual Willytex reference, you might want to consider the advice he has sometimes offered you, which is to look more to the future, instead of spending so much time rehashing the past. He does not lie when he states that this TMO has made a remarkably deep impression on you. I mean, let's face it, you've often bragged about the profound experiences you've had (or had) both during and after meditation. The time spent watching you try to disown those experiences were some of the best posts we had in a while. I'd love to have a taste of that again. Oh, this wasting time is sometimes fun! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
The effect as you call it is the effect of gullible people listening to Hagelin and Marshy's bullshit about it and suspending their logical critical thinking skills, feeling wonderful about creating non-existent world peace and giving more time and money to a fake ass movement and guru. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Data, Observation, Hypothesis and Test. Quite evidently it [the Meissner Effect of Consciousness] was hypothesized, data gathered, tested and demonstrated quite well statistically. You quite evidently are just saying what you are saying as part of your own emotionally damaged anti-science anti-intellectual very personal PR program against TM and spirituality. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck mjackson74 writes: The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. Now how in the world can you interpret it any other way? Are you really a Willy Tex clone? What do you do, sit in the John Hagelin presentations and say Oh the Marshy Effect hasn't worked like you said it would, but I am just going to go on ignoring the man behind the curtain and believe whatever you and Big Bopper Bevan tell me. Here, here is another check to support the pundit project which is part of the ME effect. I answered my own question - you are a Willy Tex clone in addition to being a schnook and a schmoe. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field
Really you didn't feel much with Amma? That is interesting - so many people claim she has tons of energy - of course others claim she is stealing the group's energy and people believe its hers so... From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field Thinking back to my time with M, I'm not sure if I felt much of what might be termed darshan. There may have been a lot of power of suggestion going on that produced some of that feeling. I remember seeing both Ammachi and Karunamayi in person, once each, and not feeling much in the way of darshan either. I guess, what is strange, is that now, when I reflect on the times I was with MMY personally, I seem to feel it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Darshan doesn't exist? Om ha, ha, ha! That's funny, someone on the side sent me a picture today of Karunamayi having gold vibuti coming out her hand while she is holding her hand up. Om ye of little experience and therefore little faith, you are pitiful. -Buck steve.sundur writes: You have to understand that Michael lives in a black and white world. Darshan doesn't exist if not everyone responds to an so called enlightened individual in an exact same way. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh, and then anyone who believes otherwise is some kind of cult apologist, or true believer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Prove darshan exists - its a made up feel good deal. There are people who met Marshy and didn't feel shit for energy from him. So how do you account for that? Just interjecting here - I haven't been around anyone with this thing you call darshan and I certainly don't believe in saints. Saints are renderings on canvas and in sculpture of mythical creatures who existed centuries ago and were memorialized in works of art. There are only human beings. Some are charismatic, some could charm the pants (literally) off someone and some can make you do all sorts of things like spend lots of money or time doing things they want you to do. However, there is power and there is energy and there is all sorts of stuff going on in the universe that is mysterious and scary and wonderful and invisible. The fact that some can feel the purported darshan from MMY and some don't is just like some people can be moved or can appreciate or feel the power in a great piece of music or art or film and some simply don't get it. It's in the perception of the perceiver, not necessarily inherent or not inherent in the object, person or event. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. You need psychiatric help. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? Is this your enlightenment Buck? A refusal to read what people say and then project some weird victim fantasy onto anyone who doesn't automatically accept the great master Hagelin at his word? Read it again and respond to what I say, not your paranoid fantasies. The ME hasn't produced the result as it has predicted, so therefore it has not effect, no value. I am not sure what makes a person view things in such a black and white way, and really wouldn't want to speculate about it. Oh
