Re: was - Update on Kisa, now raw feeding
Oh, ick, I hate all this stuff~~all the uncertainty about what to feed our fuzzers, and now it's is ANYTHING safe? I just got back an hour ago from taking my unhappy boy Billi Bi into the emergency vet to be catheterized~~again~~so he's going to have that operation! So much for my hair appointment on Friday! Fortunately I ran into my holistic vet at the emergency vet (she owns it) and she'll be giving me info on feeding the little guy (Billi Bi) so I won't have to feed him the Rx junk with the icky bi-products in it. Thank God! Poor Bailey, Poor Koda. Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On Jun 6, 2007, at 11:27 AM, C J wrote: I started feeding raw about 2 months ago, and now i'm having some second thoughts. I'm just not sure about it yet. It sounds so much healthier, and i'm hoping my two older, fatter cats will lose some weight on the raw. Most of my cats love the food more than they ever liked canned/dry, but then I read about Salmonella and intestinal parasites that could be in raw. Plus Koda died a month ago of organ failure due to unknown causes. She was old and diabetic, but I have that lingering uncertainty that possibly the raw food may have harmed her. I'm still trying to read more info on the raw, but it is the same as everything else, you have people strongly for or against it, both with good arguments. I just want to do what is healthiest for my babies. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients I've never seen a green cherry tomato, but that aside and this is my opinion only why tempt fate when dealing with an already compromised immune system. Yes it may be safe for most cats, even positive cats, but I would die if my cat was the one cat it wasn't safe for. It just isn't worth it to me when it can be left out. To be honest with you I will always wonder if Bailey didn't get sick because of the raw food I was feeding him, yes he did very well for about 6 months, got chubby, seemed to feel good but then he got very sick and and less than 6 months later was gone. He had NEVER been sick in all his 11 years before that, so was it just a coincidence ... possibly, but I will NEVER know for sure and I will never feed raw again, just in case. I believe, from all the other info out there, that it is the GREEN tomatoes, stems and leaves that are the poisonous parts. The red/ripe tomatoes thet we normally consume and that are used in tomato juice contain only trace amounts of Solanine and are not poisonous. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/834 - Release Date: 6/5/2007 2:38 PM
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
I believe, from all the other info out there, that it is the GREEN tomatoes, stems and leaves that are the poisonous parts. The red/ripe tomatoes thet we normally consume and that are used in tomato juice contain only trace amounts of Solanine and are not poisonous. From the ASPCA: http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pro_apcc_ask_peoplefoods_state=tomatoes The green parts of the tomato plant are considered toxic because they contain solanine, which has the potential to produce significant gastrointestinal and central nervous system effects. However ripe tomatoes, the part of the plant typically used in food products, are not toxic. Therefore, we would not expect any poisoning-related issues with the tomato content of your cat food. Here are a few other sites with info on Solanine Tomaotes: http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/index.cfm?objectid=6F5F05AB-F1F6-975E-79F11EF81F6A5475 http://www.whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=georgedbid=62 http://www.floridata.com/ref/l/lyco_lyc.cfm http://www.trustedhands.com/content/id267.html http://www.cfainc.org/articles/plants.html If you can find any other info - NOT taken from the Feline Future stories, I would be very interested in it. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:22:20 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients Then WHY on earth does our liver shake call for TOMATO JUICE?!!?!?! Phaewryn Think I would stick with the carrot juice or leave the veggies out all together. Just my opinion. Tomatoes can be toxic to cats: http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/humanfood.htm Tomatoes, Green (raw Potatoes) These foods are members of the Solanaceae family of plants, which includes the Deadly Nightshade, and contain a bitter, poisonous alkaloid called Glycoalkaloid Solanine, which can cause violent lower gastrointestinal symptoms. The Feline Future web site offers a rare description of a cat which was close to death from ingesting just one cherry tomato. http://site.pawshop.com/blog/archive/2006_08_20_archive.html Tomatoes and tomato plants: Tomatoes of all kinds are toxic to cats, as are parts of the tomato plant. Ingesting as little as a cherry tomato can cause severe gastrointestinal upset. http://www.dietbites.com/Diet-123/dog-cat-foods-to-avoid.html Tomatoes - May cause heart disturbances. http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/cattox.html#t -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ...
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
I've never seen a green cherry tomato, but that aside *and this is my opinion only* why tempt fate when dealing with an already compromised immune system. Yes it may be safe for most cats, even positive cats, but I would die if *my cat* was the one cat it wasn't safe for. It just isn't worth it to me when it can be left out. *To be honest with you I will always wonder if Bailey didn't get sick because of the raw food I was feeding him*, yes he did very well for about 6 months, got chubby, seemed to feel good but then he got very sick and and less than 6 months later was gone. He had *NEVER* been sick in all his 11 years before that, so was it just a coincidence ... possibly, but I will NEVER know for sure and I will never feed raw again, just in case. I believe, from all the other info out there, that it is the GREEN tomatoes, stems and leaves that are the poisonous parts. The red/ripe tomatoes thet we normally consume and that are used in tomato juice contain only trace amounts of Solanine and are not poisonous. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
Belinda, I hear you, and understand where you're coming from. Raw feeding can be tricky, especially for our positives, because it's easy to be unbalanced. A great resource (online) for me has been the HolistiCat Forum - http://www.holisticat.com/ Besides raw, they share recipes for cooked and have discussions about the better commercial foods as well as pre-made frozen raw, etc. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Belinda wrote: I've never seen a green cherry tomato, but that aside *and this is my opinion only* why tempt fate when dealing with an already compromised immune system. Yes it may be safe for most cats, even positive cats, but I would die if *my cat* was the one cat it wasn't safe for. It just isn't worth it to me when it can be left out. *To be honest with you I will always wonder if Bailey didn't get sick because of the raw food I was feeding him*, yes he did very well for about 6 months, got chubby, seemed to feel good but then he got very sick and and less than 6 months later was gone. He had *NEVER* been sick in all his 11 years before that, so was it just a coincidence ... possibly, but I will NEVER know for sure and I will never feed raw again, just in case.
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
Thanks Kat, I just joined :) -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now raw feeding
I started feeding raw about 2 months ago, and now i'm having some second thoughts. I'm just not sure about it yet. It sounds so much healthier, and i'm hoping my two older, fatter cats will lose some weight on the raw. Most of my cats love the food more than they ever liked canned/dry, but then I read about Salmonella and intestinal parasites that could be in raw. Plus Koda died a month ago of organ failure due to unknown causes. She was old and diabetic, but I have that lingering uncertainty that possibly the raw food may have harmed her. I'm still trying to read more info on the raw, but it is the same as everything else, you have people strongly for or against it, both with good arguments. I just want to do what is healthiest for my babies. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients I've never seen a green cherry tomato, but that aside and this is my opinion only why tempt fate when dealing with an already compromised immune system. Yes it may be safe for most cats, even positive cats, but I would die if my cat was the one cat it wasn't safe for. It just isn't worth it to me when it can be left out. To be honest with you I will always wonder if Bailey didn't get sick because of the raw food I was feeding him, yes he did very well for about 6 months, got chubby, seemed to feel good but then he got very sick and and less than 6 months later was gone. He had NEVER been sick in all his 11 years before that, so was it just a coincidence ... possibly, but I will NEVER know for sure and I will never feed raw again, just in case. I believe, from all the other info out there, that it is the GREEN tomatoes, stems and leaves that are the poisonous parts. The red/ripe tomatoes thet we normally consume and that are used in tomato juice contain only trace amounts of Solanine and are not poisonous.-- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/834 - Release Date: 6/5/2007 2:38 PM
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
Do you have to pay to read the HolistiCat forum? Cassandra - Original Message - From: Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients Belinda, I hear you, and understand where you're coming from. Raw feeding can be tricky, especially for our positives, because it's easy to be unbalanced. A great resource (online) for me has been the HolistiCat Forum - http://www.holisticat.com/ Besides raw, they share recipes for cooked and have discussions about the better commercial foods as well as pre-made frozen raw, etc. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Belinda wrote: I've never seen a green cherry tomato, but that aside *and this is my opinion only* why tempt fate when dealing with an already compromised immune system. Yes it may be safe for most cats, even positive cats, but I would die if *my cat* was the one cat it wasn't safe for. It just isn't worth it to me when it can be left out. *To be honest with you I will always wonder if Bailey didn't get sick because of the raw food I was feeding him*, yes he did very well for about 6 months, got chubby, seemed to feel good but then he got very sick and and less than 6 months later was gone. He had *NEVER* been sick in all his 11 years before that, so was it just a coincidence ... possibly, but I will NEVER know for sure and I will never feed raw again, just in case. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/834 - Release Date: 6/5/2007 2:38 PM
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
You can have a 7 day free trial but you can't post, I just went ahead and joined for the 90 day period and will go from there. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
Hi Cassandra, This is from the HolistiCat forum: Unregistered users can see broad categories and the topics covered, but must register in order to go further. If you wish to read and/or post, you must first register by choosing a userID and password. Should you ever lose it, you can request it by visiting the Bulletin Board. Please use a working email address because in order for your registration to be complete, it will have to be validated first by the administrators - Jules or Sandy. Be sure you check your Junk folder in case the welcome message doesn't come to you in 3-4 hrs. Once registered and validated, you can choose to be a: Trial user - If your check has not cleared or you haven't yet decided if you wish to be a member and thus have not paid. Trial period is 7 days. During this period, one can read current messages but not post. -OR- Member - Registered for an account, and paid subscription dues. Can read and post messages. If you wish to have access to older posts on our Yahoogroups, feel free to join there (w/ nomail option) until archives get moved over here. If 1 week after registering and being validated, your membership dues have not been received, your account will be deleted. You can come back at a later date, and join us if you wish. So, yes - for FULL access, you have to register the fees is either $25 annually or $10 per quarter, but the info and support is well worth it for me. Besides the food info, there is a wealth of info on homeopathic support and holistic health care. And they are just as committed and caring as the members of this list!! Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, C J wrote: Do you have to pay to read the HolistiCat forum? Cassandra - Original Message - From: Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients Belinda, I hear you, and understand where you're coming from. Raw feeding can be tricky, especially for our positives, because it's easy to be unbalanced. A great resource (online) for me has been the HolistiCat Forum - http://www.holisticat.com/ Besides raw, they share recipes for cooked and have discussions about the better commercial foods as well as pre-made frozen raw, etc. Kat (Mew Jersey)
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
I'm feeding Dixie Primal raw. Mixed with carrots and broccoli no yet. And she loves it. It comes in cubes, pre-mixed and balanced and easy for those of us who are vegetarian. I mix hers with some bottled water too. It is pretty concentrated and Dixie is accustomed to Fancy Feast and foods like that --- lots of water and not as much real food. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients Do you have to pay to read the HolistiCat forum? Cassandra - Original Message - From: Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients Belinda, I hear you, and understand where you're coming from. Raw feeding can be tricky, especially for our positives, because it's easy to be unbalanced. A great resource (online) for me has been the HolistiCat Forum - http://www.holisticat.com/ Besides raw, they share recipes for cooked and have discussions about the better commercial foods as well as pre-made frozen raw, etc. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Belinda wrote: I've never seen a green cherry tomato, but that aside *and this is my opinion only* why tempt fate when dealing with an already compromised immune system. Yes it may be safe for most cats, even positive cats, but I would die if *my cat* was the one cat it wasn't safe for. It just isn't worth it to me when it can be left out. *To be honest with you I will always wonder if Bailey didn't get sick because of the raw food I was feeding him*, yes he did very well for about 6 months, got chubby, seemed to feel good but then he got very sick and and less than 6 months later was gone. He had *NEVER* been sick in all his 11 years before that, so was it just a coincidence ... possibly, but I will NEVER know for sure and I will never feed raw again, just in case. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/834 - Release Date: 6/5/2007 2:38 PM
RE: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I never understand why vets of all people sometimes think/act that way. Why did they go into veterinary medicine anyway? For the glamour? I'm not sure if helping birth a calf or artificially inseminating hogs is really glamorous or exciting...at least that's what the vets around here work on mostly--livestock--so I think that often explains their attitudes to pets who don't make money. I'm so happy to hear that Kisa is improving--hang in there! It's great that she's eating more. I've got to take our Ashley in tomorrow--still has loose stools. But, she's not FeLV+, so I guess I should move my thoughts on her to the other discussion... Anyways, you made it through Monday--and that's great! Melissa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C J Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:56 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Thank you. Yes I get the impression from alot of vets that pets are somewhat disposable...if it starts giving alot of problems, throw it away and get a new one. This is how I would treat an old car, not a living creature. I've received much more help from this message list than I have from the vets. If it wasn't for this list, both Tomi and Kisa would probably be gone by now. Thank goodness for the people here that care so much and are willing to share their experiences. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 12:59 PM Subject: RE: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope all is going well with you and Kisa this week. It's such good news that she's doing a little bit better. It's just too bad that the vets have to be that way. I know they think they're looking out for Kisa's best interest, but I think that there may be so many options that they just don't bother to explore which could lengthen Kisa's time here as well as improve her time with you. It's a wonderful thing and a great blessing that there are people like you who are willing to try. My vet suggested putting my FeLV to sleep, and he wasn't even outwardly sick! He's now very happy at Best Friends. I think too often people don't think of animals as deserving as people, but I'm glad that there are those out there who do. Stay strong and best wishes for you and your fur baby. Melissa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C J Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:46 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't
Re: Update on Kisa
Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called *FortiFlora* and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99: http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=entirelypetsquery=FortiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fnsearch.html http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=entirelypetsquery=FortiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fnsearch.html Melissa Lind wrote: I've got to take our Ashley in tomorrow--still has loose stools. But, she's not FeLV+, so I guess I should move my thoughts on her to the other discussion... Anyways, you made it through Monday--and that's great! Melissa
Re: Update on Kisa
My vet has recommended this to me as well. On 6/5/07, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called FortiFlora and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99: http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=entirelypetsquery=FortiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fnsearch.html Melissa Lind wrote: I've got to take our Ashley in tomorrow--still has loose stools. But, she's not FeLV+, so I guess I should move my thoughts on her to the other discussion... Anyways, you made it through Monday--and that's great! Melissa -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Gandalf! http://www.firstgiving.com/gandalfkitty I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
FortiFlora (was Update on Kisa)
Thanks for the feedback Kelley. Did you use it for treating diarrhea, or just as a probiotic supplement? Did you see any results you could report? N Kelley Saveika wrote: My vet has recommended this to me as well. On 6/5/07, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called FortiFlora and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99
Re: FortiFlora (was Update on Kisa)
I used it for treating diarrhea, and I didn't really get any results, but I believe that is because teh diarrhea was caused by giardia (I had giardia in my house for quite some time before I found out. Sometimes it doesn't show up in fecals. I've had it off and on ever since..ugh). I do know people who use it routinely and swear by it. I'm not really in a position to do that, though. On 6/5/07, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the feedback Kelley. Did you use it for treating diarrhea, or just as a probiotic supplement? Did you see any results you could report? N Kelley Saveika wrote: My vet has recommended this to me as well. On 6/5/07, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called FortiFlora and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Gandalf! http://www.firstgiving.com/gandalfkitty I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
RE: Update on Kisa
Thank you Nina-my vet said to give it a try-so, I'm going to order it tonight. I hope it works.Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called FortiFlora and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99: http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=entirelypetsquery=Fo rtiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fns earch.html http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=entirelypetsquery=For tiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fnse arch.html Melissa Lind wrote: I've got to take our Ashley in tomorrow--still has loose stools. But, she's not FeLV+, so I guess I should move my thoughts on her to the other discussion... Anyways, you made it through Monday--and that's great! Melissa
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
Then WHY on earth does our liver shake call for TOMATO JUICE?!!?!?! Phaewryn Think I would stick with the carrot juice or leave the veggies out all together. Just my opinion. Tomatoes can be toxic to cats: http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/humanfood.htm Tomatoes, Green (raw Potatoes) These foods are members of the Solanaceae family of plants, which includes the Deadly Nightshade, and contain a bitter, poisonous alkaloid called Glycoalkaloid Solanine, which can cause violent lower gastrointestinal symptoms. The Feline Future web site offers a rare description of a cat which was close to death from ingesting just one cherry tomato. http://site.pawshop.com/blog/archive/2006_08_20_archive.html Tomatoes and tomato plants: Tomatoes of all kinds are toxic to cats, as are parts of the tomato plant. Ingesting as little as a cherry tomato can cause severe gastrointestinal upset. http://www.dietbites.com/Diet-123/dog-cat-foods-to-avoid.html Tomatoes - May cause heart disturbances. http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/cattox.html#t -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ...
Re: Update on Kisa
The best thing about the Forti Flora is that it's in premeasured packets, is a powder and is easy to mix into wet food, and it's HIGHLY palatable - the cats LOVE it. I'm not convinced that it's any different as far as active ingredients goes from any other probiotic. It may be more effective beacuse the cats actually EAT it, rather than spitting it out and gagging (my past experience with probiotic pastes). Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?causeid=21303 Sign up for iGive and a percentage of your purchases helps save animals!
Re: Update on Kisa
Thanks for the info on FortiFlora - I hadn[t heard of it and will check it out for those of my gang who may need it. Gloria On Jun 5, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Nina wrote: Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called FortiFlora and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99: http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch? catalog=entirelypetsquery=FortiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F% 2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fnsearch.html Melissa Lind wrote: I've got to take our Ashley in tomorrow--still has loose stools. But, she's not FeLV+, so I guess I should move my thoughts on her to the other discussion... Anyways, you made it through Monday--and that's great! Melissa
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, my vet gave me liquid doxy for one of my cats. It ws the 1st time I had ever seen it. The problem is that it has a very short shelf life. dede --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These pills come in a gelcap already. The problem is, she squirms and moves her tongue around like crazy, so I have to try avoiding the tongue and getting the pill right to the back of her throat, or else she bites it. Once she bites it, she foams at the mouth like crazy, so it must taste really bad. I think the vet techs were having a heck of a time giving her pills too when she was there. I am trying to coat it in butter, but cat food juice sounds good too. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I find that the easiest way is to cut the tablet up put it in a small gelcap. Then roll the gelcap in cat food juices. Makes it slippery tastes good so they swallow! Not like sticking a nasty pill in that sticks someplace in the mouth to be spit out later on. Pam C J wrote: Yes i'm giving her doxy, but she's one heck of a tough kitty to give pills to. Tomi is way easier to give pills. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope she is still getting the doxy otherwise your only prolonging the inevitable, hemo does not go away on its own. If her anemia is because od hemo she needs the doxy to live. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God Mosiah 2:17 Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: was - Update on Kisa, now liver shake ingredients
Think I would stick with the carrot juice or leave the veggies out all together. Just my opinion. Tomatoes can be toxic to cats: http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/humanfood.htm *Tomatoes, Green (raw Potatoes)* These foods are members of the Solanaceae family of plants, which includes the Deadly Nightshade, and contain a bitter, poisonous alkaloid called / Glycoalkaloid Solanine/, which can cause violent lower gastrointestinal symptoms. The Feline Future web site offers a rare description of a cat which was close to death from ingesting just one cherry tomato. http://site.pawshop.com/blog/archive/2006_08_20_archive.html Tomatoes and tomato plants: Tomatoes of all kinds are toxic to cats, as are parts of the tomato plant. Ingesting as little as a cherry tomato can cause severe gastrointestinal upset. http://www.dietbites.com/Diet-123/dog-cat-foods-to-avoid.html Tomatoes - May cause heart disturbances. http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/cattox.html#t -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I hope all is going well with you and Kisa this week. It's such good news that she's doing a little bit better. It's just too bad that the vets have to be that way. I know they think they're looking out for Kisa's best interest, but I think that there may be so many options that they just don't bother to explore which could lengthen Kisa's time here as well as improve her time with you. It's a wonderful thing and a great blessing that there are people like you who are willing to try. My vet suggested putting my FeLV to sleep, and he wasn't even outwardly sick! He's now very happy at Best Friends. I think too often people don't think of animals as deserving as people, but I'm glad that there are those out there who do. Stay strong and best wishes for you and your fur baby. Melissa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C J Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:46 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828
Re: Update on Kisa
Doxy also comes in an injection. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
Thank you. Yes I get the impression from alot of vets that pets are somewhat disposable...if it starts giving alot of problems, throw it away and get a new one. This is how I would treat an old car, not a living creature. I've received much more help from this message list than I have from the vets. If it wasn't for this list, both Tomi and Kisa would probably be gone by now. Thank goodness for the people here that care so much and are willing to share their experiences. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 12:59 PM Subject: RE: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope all is going well with you and Kisa this week. It's such good news that she's doing a little bit better. It's just too bad that the vets have to be that way. I know they think they're looking out for Kisa's best interest, but I think that there may be so many options that they just don't bother to explore which could lengthen Kisa's time here as well as improve her time with you. It's a wonderful thing and a great blessing that there are people like you who are willing to try. My vet suggested putting my FeLV to sleep, and he wasn't even outwardly sick! He's now very happy at Best Friends. I think too often people don't think of animals as deserving as people, but I'm glad that there are those out there who do. Stay strong and best wishes for you and your fur baby. Melissa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C J Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:46 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I hope she is still getting the doxy otherwise your only prolonging the inevitable, hemo does not go away on its own. If her anemia is because od hemo she needs the doxy to live. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
Yes i'm giving her doxy, but she's one heck of a tough kitty to give pills to. Tomi is way easier to give pills. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope she is still getting the doxy otherwise your only prolonging the inevitable, hemo does not go away on its own. If her anemia is because od hemo she needs the doxy to live. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
I find that the easiest way is to cut the tablet up put it in a small gelcap. Then roll the gelcap in cat food juices. Makes it slippery tastes good so they swallow! Not like sticking a nasty pill in that sticks someplace in the mouth to be spit out later on. Pam C J wrote: Yes i'm giving her doxy, but she's one heck of a tough kitty to give pills to. Tomi is way easier to give pills. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope she is still getting the doxy otherwise your only prolonging the inevitable, hemo does not go away on its own. If her anemia is because od hemo she needs the doxy to live. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
These pills come in a gelcap already. The problem is, she squirms and moves her tongue around like crazy, so I have to try avoiding the tongue and getting the pill right to the back of her throat, or else she bites it. Once she bites it, she foams at the mouth like crazy, so it must taste really bad. I think the vet techs were having a heck of a time giving her pills too when she was there. I am trying to coat it in butter, but cat food juice sounds good too. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I find that the easiest way is to cut the tablet up put it in a small gelcap. Then roll the gelcap in cat food juices. Makes it slippery tastes good so they swallow! Not like sticking a nasty pill in that sticks someplace in the mouth to be spit out later on. Pam C J wrote: Yes i'm giving her doxy, but she's one heck of a tough kitty to give pills to. Tomi is way easier to give pills. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope she is still getting the doxy otherwise your only prolonging the inevitable, hemo does not go away on its own. If her anemia is because od hemo she needs the doxy to live. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Cat food juices are more slippery (I wanted to say 'slipperier but that's obviously wrong!). If you can wedge her between your knees on the floor so she is firmly held by your thighs body, then get mouth open whammo in the back of the mouth. I've had so much experience with pills that I basically just put them in my hand go looking for the subject kitty. Most of the tme, just bending over, backing them up to my legs opening the mouth will do. It's all over before they can object! Pam C J wrote: These pills come in a gelcap already. The problem is, she squirms and moves her tongue around like crazy, so I have to try avoiding the tongue and getting the pill right to the back of her throat, or else she bites it. Once she bites it, she foams at the mouth like crazy, so it must taste really bad. I think the vet techs were having a heck of a time giving her pills too when she was there. I am trying to coat it in butter, but cat food juice sounds good too. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I find that the easiest way is to cut the tablet up put it in a small gelcap. Then roll the gelcap in cat food juices. Makes it slippery tastes good so they swallow! Not like sticking a nasty pill in that sticks someplace in the mouth to be spit out later on. Pam C J wrote: Yes i'm giving her doxy, but she's one heck of a tough kitty to give pills to. Tomi is way easier to give pills. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope she is still getting the doxy otherwise your only prolonging the inevitable, hemo does not go away on its own. If her anemia is because od hemo she needs the doxy to live. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
We could do this with Tomi, but Kisa is like trying to pill a wild squirrel. She moves too fast to even react, and can squirm away in any direction...plus her mouth is small. This is with both my husband and I holding her wrapped in a towel, plus she's weak and anemic. It's even harder as she gains strength. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cat food juices are more slippery (I wanted to say 'slipperier but that's obviously wrong!). If you can wedge her between your knees on the floor so she is firmly held by your thighs body, then get mouth open whammo in the back of the mouth. I've had so much experience with pills that I basically just put them in my hand go looking for the subject kitty. Most of the tme, just bending over, backing them up to my legs opening the mouth will do. It's all over before they can object! Pam C J wrote: These pills come in a gelcap already. The problem is, she squirms and moves her tongue around like crazy, so I have to try avoiding the tongue and getting the pill right to the back of her throat, or else she bites it. Once she bites it, she foams at the mouth like crazy, so it must taste really bad. I think the vet techs were having a heck of a time giving her pills too when she was there. I am trying to coat it in butter, but cat food juice sounds good too. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I find that the easiest way is to cut the tablet up put it in a small gelcap. Then roll the gelcap in cat food juices. Makes it slippery tastes good so they swallow! Not like sticking a nasty pill in that sticks someplace in the mouth to be spit out later on. Pam C J wrote: Yes i'm giving her doxy, but she's one heck of a tough kitty to give pills to. Tomi is way easier to give pills. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I hope she is still getting the doxy otherwise your only prolonging the inevitable, hemo does not go away on its own. If her anemia is because od hemo she needs the doxy to live. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
I almost hate to bring this up, but Dox is really harsh on the esophagus. My vet tech told me about a guy, (human), that stupidly took some without water and burned a hole in his throat. It's really important to wash pills down with a little bit of water, tuna water, or when I was giving meds to my felv guys, I'd follow the pill with their Interferon. You want to make sure they swallow Dox. If you can get them to eat or drink directly afterward that works, but Kisa's not eating that much so I'd syringe just a tiny bit of liquid to be sure. N C J wrote: We could do this with Tomi, but Kisa is like trying to pill a wild squirrel. She moves too fast to even react, and can squirm away in any direction...plus her mouth is small. This is with both my husband and I holding her wrapped in a towel, plus she's weak and anemic. It's even harder as she gains strength. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Please, please, please continue her daily shots of dex. The situation you share with Kisa is so eerily familiar that I don't think her current rebound is coincidental with the administration. It's such wonderful news that you've gotten a reprieve with sweet Kisa. I know how hard the battle to restrain your hopes can be, esp with her showing interest in food! You don't have to fight the feeling of happiness, you have every reason to be joyful that she is still with you, and as I've said so many times before, where there is life there is always hope. Do your best to be grateful without being expectant; continue to stand by her and enjoy her presence without quantifying it. I don't even have to preface my following advice with if I were you, I WAS YOU just a few short months ago, (I went through this very thing with my Angel Spencer). I was given the opportunity to let go of the decision dance (as our friend Leslie put it) and free myself of the anxieties, frustrations and expectations that come with so desperately trying to save our fur kids. Somehow I was given the strength to release all that and live every moment fully cognizant of the gift of reprieve with my Spencer. It was one of the most rewarding times of my life and I'll always be grateful to him for the opportunity. You see, Spencer gave me the opportunity to let go of my fear, to accept whatever might come and to commune with another being in the purest form of simply BEING. My prayer for you is that you are able to step away from your expectations, love her unconditionally and be grateful for whatever time the two of you have left in the physical, be it long or short. Many blessings and much love, Nina C J wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Kisa is peeing, probably about every 8 hours. She's so weak, that if I don't have a litter box within 2feet of her, she'll just go close to where she's laying. She must not have been very dehydrated yet, since it took at least 12 hours to absorb the 100ml of fluid we gave her. She's only about 6-7 pounds now, she was 8 pounds when she was healthy. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't give her more fluids today since she hasn't vomited so far. I don't think she's dehydrated at all at the moment. She's still licking liver off the back of a spoon today. I tried baby food as well, but she wasn't that interested in it. She did lick a few spoonbacks of it though. Kisa tried to sit up to eat the food directly off the plate, but its almost like she's forgotten how to eat that way. She sniffed it, and tried licking, but she was too far away to actually lick any up. As long as I put some on the back of a spoon and hold it in front of her mouth, she seems to be able to eat that way. I'd like to get her eating something other than just liver, but if she'll eat that, its a good start. I may dissolve a mulitvitamin in it for her if that's all she'll eat. I don't want to overload the vitamin A though either. Kisa purred when we took her to bed last night, and has been purring today when we pet her, so I think she's feeling a bit better. She tried to bath herself, even though it tired her out some. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassamdra. Do NOT attempt to express her bladder unless you are familiar with doing so! This is not something I would ever undertake without being sure I knew what I was doing as you can do real damage. Keep her litter fresh so that you can see what she pees if she is using the litter box. If you are giving 100 ml a day, she should be peeing fairly normally. I would make it a habit to give it at the same time each day. Do you know how to do the skin test for dehydration? Check the gums for tackiness? How much do you think she weighs now? Pam Kelly L wrote: At 06:42 PM 6/1/2007, you wrote: Alot depends upon her kidney function and her respiratory status. On a healthy 10 lb cat 2-300 cc per day is fine, but if her organs are not working properly it could cause a fluidover load and even make it harder for her to breathe. Id she peeing,,,you need to compare what goes in with what goes out, do you know how to express her bladder if you need to, he kidneys do need to be working. I would feel comfortable with 100, but I would sure call the vet and ask as they know he lab values and heart and lung status,, Make sure he body temp does not drop either Have you checked her temp,,,? Thanks for the update and I am sending many good thoughts. it is so very very hard when we love them so much. Kelly A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.5/826 - Release Date: 5/31/2007 4:51 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/827 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 9:54 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
I'm giving her 1cc of Dex every 12ish hours. Right now I am just grateful to be able to spend a bit more time with her, since 2 nights ago I was sure she would die at any moment. To see her more alert, purring and trying to eat, she can't be in much pain or discomfort. I think she is just really tired and weak. I'm just grateful to be able to spend some time with her while she's feeling a bit better. I don't know what will happen, but Kisa isn't quite done fighting yet. She sure is a brave little girl. The improvement may only last a day, or may last for years, but I will try not to worry too much because whatever time we have left is precious. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Please, please, please continue her daily shots of dex. The situation you share with Kisa is so eerily familiar that I don't think her current rebound is coincidental with the administration. It's such wonderful news that you've gotten a reprieve with sweet Kisa. I know how hard the battle to restrain your hopes can be, esp with her showing interest in food! You don't have to fight the feeling of happiness, you have every reason to be joyful that she is still with you, and as I've said so many times before, where there is life there is always hope. Do your best to be grateful without being expectant; continue to stand by her and enjoy her presence without quantifying it. I don't even have to preface my following advice with if I were you, I WAS YOU just a few short months ago, (I went through this very thing with my Angel Spencer). I was given the opportunity to let go of the decision dance (as our friend Leslie put it) and free myself of the anxieties, frustrations and expectations that come with so desperately trying to save our fur kids. Somehow I was given the strength to release all that and live every moment fully cognizant of the gift of reprieve with my Spencer. It was one of the most rewarding times of my life and I'll always be grateful to him for the opportunity. You see, Spencer gave me the opportunity to let go of my fear, to accept whatever might come and to commune with another being in the purest form of simply BEING. My prayer for you is that you are able to step away from your expectations, love her unconditionally and be grateful for whatever time the two of you have left in the physical, be it long or short. Many blessings and much love, Nina C J wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Will she eat A/D ??? That's mostly liver with vitamins... C J wrote: Kisa is peeing, probably about every 8 hours. She's so weak, that if I don't have a litter box within 2feet of her, she'll just go close to where she's laying. She must not have been very dehydrated yet, since it took at least 12 hours to absorb the 100ml of fluid we gave her. She's only about 6-7 pounds now, she was 8 pounds when she was healthy. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't give her more fluids today since she hasn't vomited so far. I don't think she's dehydrated at all at the moment. She's still licking liver off the back of a spoon today. I tried baby food as well, but she wasn't that interested in it. She did lick a few spoonbacks of it though. Kisa tried to sit up to eat the food directly off the plate, but its almost like she's forgotten how to eat that way. She sniffed it, and tried licking, but she was too far away to actually lick any up. As long as I put some on the back of a spoon and hold it in front of her mouth, she seems to be able to eat that way. I'd like to get her eating something other than just liver, but if she'll eat that, its a good start. I may dissolve a mulitvitamin in it for her if that's all she'll eat. I don't want to overload the vitamin A though either. Kisa purred when we took her to bed last night, and has been purring today when we pet her, so I think she's feeling a bit better. She tried to bath herself, even though it tired her out some. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassamdra. Do NOT attempt to express her bladder unless you are familiar with doing so! This is not something I would ever undertake without being sure I knew what I was doing as you can do real damage. Keep her litter fresh so that you can see what she pees if she is using the litter box. If you are giving 100 ml a day, she should be peeing fairly normally. I would make it a habit to give it at the same time each day. Do you know how to do the skin test for dehydration? Check the gums for tackiness? How much do you think she weighs now? Pam Kelly L wrote: At 06:42 PM 6/1/2007, you wrote: Alot depends upon her kidney function and her respiratory status. On a healthy 10 lb cat 2-300 cc per day is fine, but if her organs are not working properly it could cause a fluidover load and even make it harder for her to breathe. Id she peeing,,,you need to compare what goes in with what goes out, do you know how to express her bladder if you need to, he kidneys do need to be working. I would feel comfortable with 100, but I would sure call the vet and ask as they know he lab values and heart and lung status,, Make sure he body temp does not drop either Have you checked her temp,,,? Thanks for the update and I am sending many good thoughts. it is so very very hard when we love them so much. Kelly A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.5/826 - Release Date: 5/31/2007 4:51 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/827 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 9:54 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
I had Spencer on .4cc every 24 hours. At one point I tried cutting back to eod, but it was obvious that wasn't enough. You might want to try the A/D as Tad suggests, but if it were me, I wouldn't mess with trying to add vita to the liver she's eating. Hugs to you both, N C J wrote: I'm giving her 1cc of Dex every 12ish hours. Right now I am just grateful to be able to spend a bit more time with her, since 2 nights ago I was sure she would die at any moment. To see her more alert, purring and trying to eat, she can't be in much pain or discomfort. I think she is just really tired and weak. I'm just grateful to be able to spend some time with her while she's feeling a bit better. I don't know what will happen, but Kisa isn't quite done fighting yet. She sure is a brave little girl. The improvement may only last a day, or may last for years, but I will try not to worry too much because whatever time we have left is precious. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: Update on Kisa
My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
I can't find A/D here anywhere, the vets here use a different brand called royal canin medi-cal vet formulas. This is the stuff I was pureeing, and syringe feeding her. I was supposed to add potassium, water, and vegetable oil to it though. For the nasal tube feeding, it was a liquid food called Rebound they gave me. It was like a lactose free milk, and high in calories, comes in a little drinking box type carton. I bought some various brands of canned food to try today as well. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Tad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Will she eat A/D ??? That's mostly liver with vitamins... C J wrote: Kisa is peeing, probably about every 8 hours. She's so weak, that if I don't have a litter box within 2feet of her, she'll just go close to where she's laying. She must not have been very dehydrated yet, since it took at least 12 hours to absorb the 100ml of fluid we gave her. She's only about 6-7 pounds now, she was 8 pounds when she was healthy. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't give her more fluids today since she hasn't vomited so far. I don't think she's dehydrated at all at the moment. She's still licking liver off the back of a spoon today. I tried baby food as well, but she wasn't that interested in it. She did lick a few spoonbacks of it though. Kisa tried to sit up to eat the food directly off the plate, but its almost like she's forgotten how to eat that way. She sniffed it, and tried licking, but she was too far away to actually lick any up. As long as I put some on the back of a spoon and hold it in front of her mouth, she seems to be able to eat that way. I'd like to get her eating something other than just liver, but if she'll eat that, its a good start. I may dissolve a mulitvitamin in it for her if that's all she'll eat. I don't want to overload the vitamin A though either. Kisa purred when we took her to bed last night, and has been purring today when we pet her, so I think she's feeling a bit better. She tried to bath herself, even though it tired her out some. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassamdra. Do NOT attempt to express her bladder unless you are familiar with doing so! This is not something I would ever undertake without being sure I knew what I was doing as you can do real damage. Keep her litter fresh so that you can see what she pees if she is using the litter box. If you are giving 100 ml a day, she should be peeing fairly normally. I would make it a habit to give it at the same time each day. Do you know how to do the skin test for dehydration? Check the gums for tackiness? How much do you think she weighs now? Pam Kelly L wrote: At 06:42 PM 6/1/2007, you wrote: Alot depends upon her kidney function and her respiratory status. On a healthy 10 lb cat 2-300 cc per day is fine, but if her organs are not working properly it could cause a fluidover load and even make it harder for her to breathe. Id she peeing,,,you need to compare what goes in with what goes out, do you know how to express her bladder if you need to, he kidneys do need to be working. I would feel comfortable with 100, but I would sure call the vet and ask as they know he lab values and heart and lung status,, Make sure he body temp does not drop either Have you checked her temp,,,? Thanks for the update and I am sending many good thoughts. it is so very very hard when we love them so much. Kelly A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet
Re: Update on Kisa
Hmm, I wonder if 1cc every 12 hours isn't too much of the Dex then. Maybe I should cut it back to half a cc every 12 hours and see how that goes. I don't want to shut down her immune system completely. 1cc every 12 hours is what the vet gave me for Tomi to replace 1 prednisone pill every 12 hours. I never really used the shots for him though. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I had Spencer on .4cc every 24 hours. At one point I tried cutting back to eod, but it was obvious that wasn't enough. You might want to try the A/D as Tad suggests, but if it were me, I wouldn't mess with trying to add vita to the liver she's eating. Hugs to you both, N C J wrote: I'm giving her 1cc of Dex every 12ish hours. Right now I am just grateful to be able to spend a bit more time with her, since 2 nights ago I was sure she would die at any moment. To see her more alert, purring and trying to eat, she can't be in much pain or discomfort. I think she is just really tired and weak. I'm just grateful to be able to spend some time with her while she's feeling a bit better. I don't know what will happen, but Kisa isn't quite done fighting yet. She sure is a brave little girl. The improvement may only last a day, or may last for years, but I will try not to worry too much because whatever time we have left is precious. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
200 ml IS too much for her. Stay with 100 but be sure the prior watering is absorbed. Also she should still be on doxy. That is absolutely CRITICAL! For hemobart, she needs to be on it for a good 6 weeks. If she is not, then her HCT will keep dropping she will be in emergency need of a transfusion. Pasm C J wrote: My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I went looking for dosage and duration info about dex. I know the info is out there, I just haven't found it yet. I know how you feel re vets and giving up on them/them giving up on you, but you should call them and see if there is someone in the office that has experience using dex with kitties to get feedback on dosage using injectable dex for Kisa. Below are some pastes I grabbed while researching, I think most if not all were pertaining to humans rather than felines though. I also remember it being recommended to give the injection before 9am, but I can't remember exactly why... Something about mirroring a natural occurrence in the body. I would absolutely cut down on the dosage amount/times you are now injecting Kisa and see how she does. I'm sorry I can't be of more help with this, you're doing great. Keep breathing. Nina * The duration of therapy is dependent on the clinical response of the patient and as soon as improvement is indicated, the dosage should be adjusted to the minimum required to maintain the desired clinical response. * Dexamethasone is a long acting corticosteroid with biologic half-life ranging from 36-72 hours. * Dexamethasone is often prescribed to patients with cancer. In some cases, the drug is part of the drug treatment for the disease, and in other cases it is used to manage side effects caused by the treatment or the cancer itself. For example, dexamethasone may be given to treat nausea http://www.answers.com/topic/nausea and vomiting associated with chemotherapy http://www.answers.com/topic/chemotherapy. * Dosages to treat disease are highly individualized, but generally start at 0.75 mg per day. The lowest therapeutic dose should be given, though amounts given may need to be increased during times of stress. Dosages of medications may be changed based on factors specific to the individual. C J wrote: Hmm, I wonder if 1cc every 12 hours isn't too much of the Dex then. Maybe I should cut it back to half a cc every 12 hours and see how that goes. I don't want to shut down her immune system completely. 1cc every 12 hours is what the vet gave me for Tomi to replace 1 prednisone pill every 12 hours. I never really used the shots for him though. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I had Spencer on .4cc every 24 hours. At one point I tried cutting back to eod, but it was obvious that wasn't enough. You might want to try the A/D as Tad suggests, but if it were me, I wouldn't mess with trying to add vita to the liver she's eating. Hugs to you both, N C J wrote: I'm giving her 1cc of Dex every 12ish hours. Right now I am just grateful to be able to spend a bit more time with her, since 2 nights ago I was sure she would die at any moment. To see her more alert, purring and trying to eat, she can't be in much pain or discomfort. I think she is just really tired and weak. I'm just grateful to be able to spend some time with her while she's feeling a bit better. I don't know what will happen, but Kisa isn't quite done fighting yet. She sure is a brave little girl. The improvement may only last a day, or may last for years, but I will try not to worry too much because whatever time we have left is precious. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
We used to make a Liver Shake here that was basically liver and a little tomato or V8 juice... Sick cats seem to love that but some people say it has onions in it... But I can't see that it does... Anybody have any thoughts on this ??? Tad C J wrote: I can't find A/D here anywhere, the vets here use a different brand called royal canin medi-cal vet formulas. This is the stuff I was pureeing, and syringe feeding her. I was supposed to add potassium, water, and vegetable oil to it though. For the nasal tube feeding, it was a liquid food called Rebound they gave me. It was like a lactose free milk, and high in calories, comes in a little drinking box type carton. I bought some various brands of canned food to try today as well. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Tad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Will she eat A/D ??? That's mostly liver with vitamins... C J wrote: Kisa is peeing, probably about every 8 hours. She's so weak, that if I don't have a litter box within 2feet of her, she'll just go close to where she's laying. She must not have been very dehydrated yet, since it took at least 12 hours to absorb the 100ml of fluid we gave her. She's only about 6-7 pounds now, she was 8 pounds when she was healthy. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't give her more fluids today since she hasn't vomited so far. I don't think she's dehydrated at all at the moment. She's still licking liver off the back of a spoon today. I tried baby food as well, but she wasn't that interested in it. She did lick a few spoonbacks of it though. Kisa tried to sit up to eat the food directly off the plate, but its almost like she's forgotten how to eat that way. She sniffed it, and tried licking, but she was too far away to actually lick any up. As long as I put some on the back of a spoon and hold it in front of her mouth, she seems to be able to eat that way. I'd like to get her eating something other than just liver, but if she'll eat that, its a good start. I may dissolve a mulitvitamin in it for her if that's all she'll eat. I don't want to overload the vitamin A though either. Kisa purred when we took her to bed last night, and has been purring today when we pet her, so I think she's feeling a bit better. She tried to bath herself, even though it tired her out some. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassamdra. Do NOT attempt to express her bladder unless you are familiar with doing so! This is not something I would ever undertake without being sure I knew what I was doing as you can do real damage. Keep her litter fresh so that you can see what she pees if she is using the litter box. If you are giving 100 ml a day, she should be peeing fairly normally. I would make it a habit to give it at the same time each day. Do you know how to do the skin test for dehydration? Check the gums for tackiness? How much do you think she weighs now? Pam Kelly L wrote: At 06:42 PM 6/1/2007, you wrote: Alot depends upon her kidney function and her respiratory status. On a healthy 10 lb cat 2-300 cc per day is fine, but if her organs are not working properly it could cause a fluidover load and even make it harder for her to breathe. Id she peeing,,,you need to compare what goes in with what goes out, do you know how to express her bladder if you need to, he kidneys do need to be working. I would feel comfortable with 100, but I would sure call the vet and ask as they know he lab values and heart and lung status,, Make sure he body temp does not drop either Have you checked her temp,,,? Thanks for the update and I am sending many good thoughts. it is so very very hard when we love them so much. Kelly A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying
Re: Update on Kisa
I agree with Pam, the doxy is important for the hemobart. IF all of this is due to hemobart, AND you can kick it, you might just have your kitty back. I so hope this is the case. :) Wendy --- Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 200 ml IS too much for her. Stay with 100 but be sure the prior watering is absorbed. Also she should still be on doxy. That is absolutely CRITICAL! For hemobart, she needs to be on it for a good 6 weeks. If she is not, then her HCT will keep dropping she will be in emergency need of a transfusion. Pasm C J wrote: My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade
Re: Update on Kisa
Tad, I think that's a great food to try with Kisa, esp since she likes liver! Here's the recipe paste from Michelle: Here is the liver shake recipe: 1 cup raw liver (chicken or beef, I use chicken) 1 cup fresh carrot juice, tomato juice, or V-8 1/4 cup filtered water 1 raw egg yolk 1 tsp kelp or spirulina Blend until liquid and frothy. I make it in half batches (though use a whole egg yolk), and warm up small amounts for Simon. I had to put it on his lips the first few times to get him to eat it. it is supposed to be complete nutrition. Tad Burnett wrote: We used to make a Liver Shake here that was basically liver and a little tomato or V8 juice... Sick cats seem to love that but some people say it has onions in it... But I can't see that it does... Anybody have any thoughts on this ??? Tad
Re: Update on Kisa
Thanks for the recipe, I will try it today. For tomato juice, can I just throw in a whole fresh tomato? I'm not sure what other ingredients might be in tomato juice. Some sugar maybe? Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Tad, I think that's a great food to try with Kisa, esp since she likes liver! Here's the recipe paste from Michelle: Here is the liver shake recipe: 1 cup raw liver (chicken or beef, I use chicken) 1 cup fresh carrot juice, tomato juice, or V-8 1/4 cup filtered water 1 raw egg yolk 1 tsp kelp or spirulina Blend until liquid and frothy. I make it in half batches (though use a whole egg yolk), and warm up small amounts for Simon. I had to put it on his lips the first few times to get him to eat it. it is supposed to be complete nutrition. Tad Burnett wrote: We used to make a Liver Shake here that was basically liver and a little tomato or V8 juice... Sick cats seem to love that but some people say it has onions in it... But I can't see that it does... Anybody have any thoughts on this ??? Tad -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Yes I am still giving the Doxy. I missed a day on Thursday when I thought she was going to die, and her breathing was too fast for me to try giving her pills. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I agree with Pam, the doxy is important for the hemobart. IF all of this is due to hemobart, AND you can kick it, you might just have your kitty back. I so hope this is the case. :) Wendy --- Pam Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 200 ml IS too much for her. Stay with 100 but be sure the prior watering is absorbed. Also she should still be on doxy. That is absolutely CRITICAL! For hemobart, she needs to be on it for a good 6 weeks. If she is not, then her HCT will keep dropping she will be in emergency need of a transfusion. Pasm C J wrote: My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed
Re: Update on Kisa (tomato in liver shake)
The tomato peel is not easily digested, and the seeds are not digested at all. You could use fresh tomato if you blanch it, peel it, and then remove all the seeds. Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?causeid=21303 Sign up for iGive and a percentage of your purchases helps save animals!
Re: Update on Kisa (tomato in liver shake)
How about pure tomato paste? I have a can of that, and while it doesn't say anywhere on it what the ingredients are, I would imagine because it's 100% tomatoes. Cassandra - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa (tomato in liver shake) The tomato peel is not easily digested, and the seeds are not digested at all. You could use fresh tomato if you blanch it, peel it, and then remove all the seeds. Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?causeid=21303 Sign up for iGive and a percentage of your purchases helps save animals! -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa (tomato in liver shake)
That should work, just be sure to dilute it to normal juice dilution (taste it to be sure). Tomato paste is super concentrated. Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?causeid=21303 Sign up for iGive and a percentage of your purchases helps save animals!
Re: Update on Kisa
200ml is too much to give her in one dose but if she absorbs 100ml in 12 hours that's 100 ml every 12 hrs is 200ml per day. So do that. Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On Jun 2, 2007, at 11:45 AM, C J wrote: My guess, is her rapid breathing is caused by anemia. She is very pale, her feet and gums are much paler than normal. I am wondering if the hemobart is possibly causing her immune system to attack its own red blood cells, and the Dex is slowling that down. It could be lymphoma too though, its hard to say. Basically the vets aren't very helpful for me anymore. The one vet I was dealing with that was actually being helpful is gone for a few weeks now, and all the other vets want to do is put her to sleep. I hate even consulting them, because they just try to talk me into putting her to sleep. When I got the IV bag, the vet I talked to said to give her like 200ml per day. I think that's way too much right now...when it took her like 12 hours to absorb 100ml. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Hey Cassandra, Wow, I am surprised and so happy that Kisa is rallying! I hope she can pull through. The dex can make a difference. I think the combo shot I mentioned early on shrinks lymphoma, according to Michelle, the girl who used to be here who knows a lot about it. If that's the case, and she does have lymphoma, it might explain the easier breathing. Maybe something is growing quickly and pressing on her lungs or throat. My cat with CRF gets 200 CC a week of subQ fluids, but she is not in grave danger as Kisa is. She walks around with a little sac of fluid hanging off her little bony body for a few hours before it absorbs. She feels so much better after it's done. How much did the vet say you should give Kisa? I would ask them so that you don't overdo it. Keeping my fingers crossed for you guys. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ _ ___ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Kisa likes the liver shake. She wasn't interested at first, but I just held the spoon in front of her nose until she tried it. I don't know why she'd like it though, it smells awful..mostly like tomato. Now I just need to get her eating off a plate. It's really slow going dipping a spoon in food and letting her lick the back. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:07 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Thanks for the recipe, I will try it today. For tomato juice, can I just throw in a whole fresh tomato? I'm not sure what other ingredients might be in tomato juice. Some sugar maybe? Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Tad, I think that's a great food to try with Kisa, esp since she likes liver! Here's the recipe paste from Michelle: Here is the liver shake recipe: 1 cup raw liver (chicken or beef, I use chicken) 1 cup fresh carrot juice, tomato juice, or V-8 1/4 cup filtered water 1 raw egg yolk 1 tsp kelp or spirulina Blend until liquid and frothy. I make it in half batches (though use a whole egg yolk), and warm up small amounts for Simon. I had to put it on his lips the first few times to get him to eat it. it is supposed to be complete nutrition. Tad Burnett wrote: We used to make a Liver Shake here that was basically liver and a little tomato or V8 juice... Sick cats seem to love that but some people say it has onions in it... But I can't see that it does... Anybody have any thoughts on this ??? Tad No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
I'm so glad she is eating it, yes, licking a spoon is slow going. Can you put just a dab IN the spoon and get her to lap it out of the spoon (rather than licking the stuff that's clinging to the back of it)? If she wont do that, you might have better luck with a wood Popsicle stick, as more of the shake will cling to the wood than to a metal spoon. I'm going offline for the night, big thunderstorm coming, according to the weather channel. Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?causeid=21303 Sign up for iGive and a percentage of your purchases helps save animals!
Re: Update on Kisa
I'm so glad she likes it! Don't get greedy about switching her to a plate, we don't want to jinx her! :-) . It's making me smile to picture you on your hands and knees coaxing her to eat and actually having her do it! Been there, done that :-) . C'mon Kisa! N C J wrote: Kisa likes the liver shake. She wasn't interested at first, but I just held the spoon in front of her nose until she tried it. I don't know why she'd like it though, it smells awful..mostly like tomato. Now I just need to get her eating off a plate. It's really slow going dipping a spoon in food and letting her lick the back. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Well, yes, she will eat off a plate eventually but right now it is important to feed her if that's the way she likes it. It is more interaction with you and she really needs that slow-going babying babying right now. I'm so glad she likes her fancy liver soup! It's really great! I kept the recipe for my little guys. Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On Jun 2, 2007, at 7:06 PM, C J wrote: Kisa likes the liver shake. She wasn't interested at first, but I just held the spoon in front of her nose until she tried it. I don't know why she'd like it though, it smells awful..mostly like tomato. Now I just need to get her eating off a plate. It's really slow going dipping a spoon in food and letting her lick the back. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:07 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Thanks for the recipe, I will try it today. For tomato juice, can I just throw in a whole fresh tomato? I'm not sure what other ingredients might be in tomato juice. Some sugar maybe? Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Tad, I think that's a great food to try with Kisa, esp since she likes liver! Here's the recipe paste from Michelle: Here is the liver shake recipe: 1 cup raw liver (chicken or beef, I use chicken) 1 cup fresh carrot juice, tomato juice, or V-8 1/4 cup filtered water 1 raw egg yolk 1 tsp kelp or spirulina Blend until liquid and frothy. I make it in half batches (though use a whole egg yolk), and warm up small amounts for Simon. I had to put it on his lips the first few times to get him to eat it. it is supposed to be complete nutrition. Tad Burnett wrote: We used to make a Liver Shake here that was basically liver and a little tomato or V8 juice... Sick cats seem to love that but some people say it has onions in it... But I can't see that it does... Anybody have any thoughts on this ??? Tad No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Oh, its even better than on my hands and knees. She feels safest under the bedso its more like lying flat on my stomach trying to reach through the 6 inch opening between the bed frame and floor. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I'm so glad she likes it! Don't get greedy about switching her to a plate, we don't want to jinx her! :-) . It's making me smile to picture you on your hands and knees coaxing her to eat and actually having her do it! Been there, done that :-) . C'mon Kisa! N C J wrote: Kisa likes the liver shake. She wasn't interested at first, but I just held the spoon in front of her nose until she tried it. I don't know why she'd like it though, it smells awful..mostly like tomato. Now I just need to get her eating off a plate. It's really slow going dipping a spoon in food and letting her lick the back. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Oh, I love it! What we do for our babies. Al least she doesn't feel the most comfortable hanging in the hammock that kitties make by ripping a corner of the fabric under the bedframe and crawling in there! Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, C J wrote: Oh, its even better than on my hands and knees. She feels safest under the bedso its more like lying flat on my stomach trying to reach through the 6 inch opening between the bed frame and floor. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I'm so glad she likes it! Don't get greedy about switching her to a plate, we don't want to jinx her! :-) . It's making me smile to picture you on your hands and knees coaxing her to eat and actually having her do it! Been there, done that :-) . C'mon Kisa! N C J wrote: Kisa likes the liver shake. She wasn't interested at first, but I just held the spoon in front of her nose until she tried it. I don't know why she'd like it though, it smells awful..mostly like tomato. Now I just need to get her eating off a plate. It's really slow going dipping a spoon in food and letting her lick the back. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Actually she did do that. I just ripped the fabric lining off. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Taylor Scobie Humphrey To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Oh, I love it! What we do for our babies. Al least she doesn't feel the most comfortable hanging in the hammock that kitties make by ripping a corner of the fabric under the bedframe and crawling in there! Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, C J wrote: Oh, its even better than on my hands and knees. She feels safest under the bedso its more like lying flat on my stomach trying to reach through the 6 inch opening between the bed frame and floor. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I'm so glad she likes it! Don't get greedy about switching her to a plate, we don't want to jinx her! :-) . It's making me smile to picture you on your hands and knees coaxing her to eat and actually having her do it! Been there, done that :-) . C'mon Kisa! N C J wrote: Kisa likes the liver shake. She wasn't interested at first, but I just held the spoon in front of her nose until she tried it. I don't know why she'd like it though, it smells awful..mostly like tomato. Now I just need to get her eating off a plate. It's really slow going dipping a spoon in food and letting her lick the back. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I routinely give about 100 ml per day unless the cat is very small. Never give more fluids if what you have already given has not been absorbed. Usually it does not stay at the back of the neck but slides down under the belly against the back of the front leg. Sometimes down the front leg. On a short haired cat it's pretty easy to check for unabsorbed fluids because it's like they are packing jello. Psm C J wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, Don't give her any more fluids until *ALL* of the previous fluids are absorbed, over hydration will put a strain on her heart. I'm so glad she is showing interest in food, try and put food in front of her every few minutes and see if she'll eat, she really needs to get a realistic amount of food into her. Lots of prayers coming to her, remember think positive and see her in your minds eye feeling better. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
At 06:42 PM 6/1/2007, you wrote: Alot depends upon her kidney function and her respiratory status. On a healthy 10 lb cat 2-300 cc per day is fine, but if her organs are not working properly it could cause a fluidover load and even make it harder for her to breathe. Id she peeing,,,you need to compare what goes in with what goes out, do you know how to express her bladder if you need to, he kidneys do need to be working. I would feel comfortable with 100, but I would sure call the vet and ask as they know he lab values and heart and lung status,, Make sure he body temp does not drop either Have you checked her temp,,,? Thanks for the update and I am sending many good thoughts. it is so very very hard when we love them so much. Kelly A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.5/826 - Release Date: 5/31/2007 4:51 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassamdra. Do NOT attempt to express her bladder unless you are familiar with doing so! This is not something I would ever undertake without being sure I knew what I was doing as you can do real damage. Keep her litter fresh so that you can see what she pees if she is using the litter box. If you are giving 100 ml a day, she should be peeing fairly normally. I would make it a habit to give it at the same time each day. Do you know how to do the skin test for dehydration? Check the gums for tackiness? How much do you think she weighs now? Pam Kelly L wrote: At 06:42 PM 6/1/2007, you wrote: Alot depends upon her kidney function and her respiratory status. On a healthy 10 lb cat 2-300 cc per day is fine, but if her organs are not working properly it could cause a fluidover load and even make it harder for her to breathe. Id she peeing,,,you need to compare what goes in with what goes out, do you know how to express her bladder if you need to, he kidneys do need to be working. I would feel comfortable with 100, but I would sure call the vet and ask as they know he lab values and heart and lung status,, Make sure he body temp does not drop either Have you checked her temp,,,? Thanks for the update and I am sending many good thoughts. it is so very very hard when we love them so much. Kelly A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.5/826 - Release Date: 5/31/2007 4:51 PM
RE: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, Best wishes are being sent your way. I hope you give Kisa some snuggles and kisses from me! How heart-breaking.Stay tough for her sake. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C J Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:23 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The metachlopramide doesn't seem to be helping. She had a shot this morning, and vomited mid afternoon. Then I gave her a shot tonight, and fed her 30 mins later...she vomited that up. We actually pulled her tube out, unclogged it, and put it back in. But when she vomited tonight, she vomited it out again, and bit it off. I'm thinking of getting some more tubes from the vet, and just putting them in ourselves. We syringe fed her 30cc along with her pills after that, hopefully she can keep that down for awhile. She seems to keep stuff down if you give it to her after she vomits. The syringe feeding is not a good thing to do with her, she gets so stressed out about it. Her breathing is fairly rapid now, and doing the syringe feeding, her breathing is super fast. I'm thinking we may be fighting a losing battle here. We can't seem to stop the vomiting, and while she's doing that, we can't keep food/water down her. She's going downhill meanwhile. I would like to try to feel less stressed and more positive around her, but it seems so hard. Everytime I look at her lying there so depressed, with her beautiful white fur stained from food/vomit, when she should be racing around the house without a care in the world, I just can't stop the tears. This waiting is definately the hardest part. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I'd just like to add to this to try and feel be stressed, frustrated or think negatively, I know that seems almost impossible when things just seem to keep not working but cats are very sensitive to our feelings and your stress and fear is being picked up by her. With every fiber of your being think positive and actually see and picture things going right in your minds eye, it will make a difference, I promise ... positive, positive, positive energy, I can't stress that enough. Not sure what your vet told you about the metacloprimide but it should be given 3 times a day about a half hour before the meal it is preceding (Kisa should get more meals than that but give the metacloprimide a half hour to the meal it is closest to). There are exceptions to that, Bailey needed to get his metachloprimide an hour before or he was still a bit nauseous when I fed him. Buddie, Bailey and Fred got 1cc three times a day, it helps to get the digestive juices flowing since they aren't producing saliva because they aren't eating by way of the mouth, saliva starts the digestive process. Talk to her and see what she wantsexplain that you are not doing this to harm her or be mean to her but to help her stay with you where she is loved. She needs to understand what is going on. They pick up on so much but sometimes, like people, misunderstand or take it the wrong way. Talk to her. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com _ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
Well, I think its time to give up trying to force feed Kisa. I think she must be severely anemic now. Her breathing is very rapid, and this morning she was panting for awhile and it sounded very labored. She's in no condition to be shoving food down her throat. I don't know how long she may last in this state, but it must be quite uncomfortable. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm trying to decide if I should bring her in to the vet to have her put to sleep, or hold out and hope she can pull off a miracle like Tomi did. I called in sick to work today, just so I can be with her..since I don't know how much longer she can do this. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The metachlopramide doesn't seem to be helping. She had a shot this morning, and vomited mid afternoon. Then I gave her a shot tonight, and fed her 30 mins later...she vomited that up. We actually pulled her tube out, unclogged it, and put it back in. But when she vomited tonight, she vomited it out again, and bit it off. I'm thinking of getting some more tubes from the vet, and just putting them in ourselves. We syringe fed her 30cc along with her pills after that, hopefully she can keep that down for awhile. She seems to keep stuff down if you give it to her after she vomits. The syringe feeding is not a good thing to do with her, she gets so stressed out about it. Her breathing is fairly rapid now, and doing the syringe feeding, her breathing is super fast. I'm thinking we may be fighting a losing battle here. We can't seem to stop the vomiting, and while she's doing that, we can't keep food/water down her. She's going downhill meanwhile. I would like to try to feel less stressed and more positive around her, but it seems so hard. Everytime I look at her lying there so depressed, with her beautiful white fur stained from food/vomit, when she should be racing around the house without a care in the world, I just can't stop the tears. This waiting is definately the hardest part. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I'm so sorry. I hope Kisa takes a turn for the better. tonya C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I think its time to give up trying to force feed Kisa. I think she must be severely anemic now. Her breathing is very rapid, and this morning she was panting for awhile and it sounded very labored. She's in no condition to be shoving food down her throat. I don't know how long she may last in this state, but it must be quite uncomfortable. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm trying to decide if I should bring her in to the vet to have her put to sleep, or hold out and hope she can pull off a miracle like Tomi did. I called in sick to work today, just so I can be with her..since I don't know how much longer she can do this. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The metachlopramide doesn't seem to be helping. She had a shot this morning, and vomited mid afternoon. Then I gave her a shot tonight, and fed her 30 mins later...she vomited that up. We actually pulled her tube out, unclogged it, and put it back in. But when she vomited tonight, she vomited it out again, and bit it off. I'm thinking of getting some more tubes from the vet, and just putting them in ourselves. We syringe fed her 30cc along with her pills after that, hopefully she can keep that down for awhile. She seems to keep stuff down if you give it to her after she vomits. The syringe feeding is not a good thing to do with her, she gets so stressed out about it. Her breathing is fairly rapid now, and doing the syringe feeding, her breathing is super fast. I'm thinking we may be fighting a losing battle here. We can't seem to stop the vomiting, and while she's doing that, we can't keep food/water down her. She's going downhill meanwhile. I would like to try to feel less stressed and more positive around her, but it seems so hard. Everytime I look at her lying there so depressed, with her beautiful white fur stained from food/vomit, when she should be racing around the house without a care in the world, I just can't stop the tears. This waiting is definately the hardest part. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
I'm thinking of the two of you today and praying for Kisa. I wish I could help in some way. Again, bless you for all you're doing for her. She knows she's loved. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I think its time to give up trying to force feed Kisa. I think she must be severely anemic now. Her breathing is very rapid, and this morning she was panting for awhile and it sounded very labored. She's in no condition to be shoving food down her throat. I don't know how long she may last in this state, but it must be quite uncomfortable. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm trying to decide if I should bring her in to the vet to have her put to sleep, or hold out and hope she can pull off a miracle like Tomi did. I called in sick to work today, just so I can be with her..since I don't know how much longer she can do this. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The metachlopramide doesn't seem to be helping. She had a shot this morning, and vomited mid afternoon. Then I gave her a shot tonight, and fed her 30 mins later...she vomited that up. We actually pulled her tube out, unclogged it, and put it back in. But when she vomited tonight, she vomited it out again, and bit it off. I'm thinking of getting some more tubes from the vet, and just putting them in ourselves. We syringe fed her 30cc along with her pills after that, hopefully she can keep that down for awhile. She seems to keep stuff down if you give it to her after she vomits. The syringe feeding is not a good thing to do with her, she gets so stressed out about it. Her breathing is fairly rapid now, and doing the syringe feeding, her breathing is super fast. I'm thinking we may be fighting a losing battle here. We can't seem to stop the vomiting, and while she's doing that, we can't keep food/water down her. She's going downhill meanwhile. I would like to try to feel less stressed and more positive around her, but it seems so hard. Everytime I look at her lying there so depressed, with her beautiful white fur stained from food/vomit, when she should be racing around the house without a care in the world, I just can't stop the tears. This waiting is definately the hardest part. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
Re: Update on Kisa
Thank you, Belinda, it was just so awful and it was my little FeLV+ girl Mamie a month before she died. Awful! Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On May 30, 2007, at 7:47 AM, Belinda wrote: Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two, for the first day, then maybe 15 to 25 every couple of hours then next day, and unfortunetly you aren't going to find many, if any vets willing to devote that kind of time to one animal so it would probably be better if she were home if you can devote that kind of time to her care. Other reasons include the tube not being placed correctly, with an e-tube there is a specific area the tube should be, not higher not lower or it will cause nausea in some cats. It should NOT enter the stomach, it should be between the 7th and 9th rib, this is easily verifiable with an xray. An nasel gastric tube is uncomfortable and only ever should be used in emergencies, which Kisa is at this time, think about it a cats nostril is tiny, imagine having something shoved in it. BUT once Kisa is strong enough she should get an e-tube, it is the safest easiest tube for feeding. A peg tube is used when an e-tube for whatever reason doesn't work. Or the vet just prefers it, much more expensive, and a more extensive surgery too, but some vets will only do them, in my opinion because they are money hungry. Taylor this tube probably wasn't placed right. It didn't seem to want to go down into her tummy and would just come right back up and out around the bandage on her neck. It was a totally awful experience all the way around. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
I agree. I'm just now getting out from under dealing with the beginning of Sammy's lymphoma and Billi Bi's plugged up little peepee and all the problems that causes. All of a sudden you won't feel so terribly burdened but when you are in the middle of all this stuff it is truly overwhelming. Sammy and The 3 Orange Boyz and Lilibet and Billi Bi say Hi! Glad you're home! Much nicer being in your favorite places with your own box and dishes and MOMMY to feed you (well, better when you're not barfing)! Love, Headbutts and Purrs, Us Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On May 30, 2007, at 7:59 AM, Belinda wrote: Hi Cassandra, Just read your email and see you have Kisa at home. That's great. Are you home all day, if so try what I said. Never give meds on an empty tummy. I'm starting to wonder if Kisa doesn't have pancreatitis going on, if she continues to vomit once your feeding small amounts more often, I would see about checking her for that, there is a specfic test that can detect it, something like a PLR, I'll find out my friend has had a couple of cats with it. She has many special needs cats. One cat has had pancreatitis off and on for the last 10 years and is still going strong, she is 14 now (the cat). Of course the vets gave up on her long ago. PS. Some vomiting at first is probably not out of the ordinary given her fatty liver,and hemo, she is very sick, some, actually many cats get worse before they get better. Of course you don't want vomiting every meal or it isn't doing any good, but with smaller meals and I'm serious, 10 to 20ccs every hour or two to start is big enough, and you will have to feed round the clock to start. Sick kitties can take alot of work to get well when they are as sick as Kisa is, but they will recover if you can devote the time and care she needs. And once the antibiotics start working on the hemo, she will feel better and hopefully start getting her appetite back. Pleas don't loose heart, you have a long road ahead of you but you can do it. I'm here any time you need to talk or rant or anything. If she is vomiting alot you may want give fluids, vomiting causes dehydration. Dehydration makes a cat feel horrible. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, run to the drug store or grocery and buy a bunch of disposible bedpads. They work really well. You can just kind of drape them oh your bed for little Kisa. I know she is so happy and feels so loved to be with you and your husband in bed. And she knows how hard you are working to help her. Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On May 30, 2007, at 2:13 PM, C J wrote: The thing is with the vomiting though, I don't think its just because i'm feeding her. For the last week, she's been vomiting consistently before I ever feed her. When the vomiting first started suddenly, she vomited several times a day with a completely empty stomach for about 3 days. We then started syringe feeding her, and as soon as we brought her out from her hiding spot, she would vomitthen we would syringe her the food. So yesterday, she vomited after syringing her the food, so I probably gave too much to start. I took her to the vet today, to get the tube put back in, and she got a shot of metachlopramide. Now the problem is, they didn't give me any more of the metachlopramide because they said its a drug filtered by the liver, and if her liver isn't functioning properly, too much of that will cause a problem. They just said to feed her about 12cc followed by 4cc water3 times a day.to see if she would keep that down. I mentioned that I didn't know how i'd be able to get enough calories into her with that small amount, but they just said to see how it goes. What a pain in the butt, because i'm fairly certain that even if I feed her such a tiny amount, i'm betting she's still going to vomit here at some point...possibly vomiting out that tube again. If she vomits again today, i'll have to get more of the metachlopramide even if its going to cause a problem with her liver. This seems to be a no win situation here. Plus, she's definately not feeling very well. All she wants to do is hide, and then lay in one spot all day. I wouldn't doubt it if she's depressed after all this. I notice her breathing seems fast also. I took her to bed with me last night, because she seems to enjoy that, and she did purr for awhile. The problem was, she was peeing about every 3 hours (probably from being on the IV for 2 days), and she was doing it in bed. I put plastic and towels under her, but she missed them once and I had to rip the bed apart in the middle of the night before it soaked too deep. She is too lethargic to get up for anything, unless its running to hide somewhere. All I can do is pray for a miracle, that somehow she will be able to pull through this mess since everything seems to be going wrong. Even my vet, who seems pretty good so far is gone now for a few weeks, so i'll have to deal with a different vet that doesn't know what's been going on so far. I was liking this vet, because he wasn't all doom and gloom like the last 2 vets i've dealt with. If he had the opinion that Kisa didn't have much of a chance, he kept it to himself, and was willing to try whatever I wanted. The last 2 vets i've had were always wanting to make it quite clear that she didn't have a chance and it wasn't worth spending too much on her. I don't see any reason why a vet has to make sure that you have no hope, hope is the only thing that keeps me functioning. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two, for the first day, then maybe 15 to 25 every couple of hours then next day, and unfortunetly you aren't going to find many, if any vets willing to devote that kind of time to one animal so it would probably be better if she were home if you can devote that kind of time to her care. Other reasons include the tube not being placed correctly, with an e-tube there is a specific area the tube should be, not higher
Re: Update on Kisa
Well, THERE you go! Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On May 30, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Belinda wrote: If you get the injectable metachlopramide it bypasses the liver. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
Oh, oops! Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On May 30, 2007, at 8:07 PM, Belinda wrote: Oh my god, I guess I should read my message before I send it, I meant ... try not to feel stressed I'd just like to add to this to try and feel be stressed, frustrated or think negatively, I know that seems almost impossible when things just seem to keep not working but cats are very sensitive to our feelings and your stress and fear is being picked up by her. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
Oh, poor baby Kisa! We will be praying for her. Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On May 31, 2007, at 11:23 AM, catatonya wrote: Cassandra, I'm so sorry. I hope Kisa takes a turn for the better. tonya C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I think its time to give up trying to force feed Kisa. I think she must be severely anemic now. Her breathing is very rapid, and this morning she was panting for awhile and it sounded very labored. She's in no condition to be shoving food down her throat. I don't know how long she may last in this state, but it must be quite uncomfortable. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm trying to decide if I should bring her in to the vet to have her put to sleep, or hold out and hope she can pull off a miracle like Tomi did. I called in sick to work today, just so I can be with her..since I don't know how much longer she can do this. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The metachlopramide doesn't seem to be helping. She had a shot this morning, and vomited mid afternoon. Then I gave her a shot tonight, and fed her 30 mins later...she vomited that up. We actually pulled her tube out, unclogged it, and put it back in. But when she vomited tonight, she vomited it out again, and bit it off. I'm thinking of getting some more tubes from the vet, and just putting them in ourselves. We syringe fed her 30cc along with her pills after that, hopefully she can keep that down for awhile. She seems to keep stuff down if you give it to her after she vomits. The syringe feeding is not a good thing to do with her, she gets so stressed out about it. Her breathing is fairly rapid now, and doing the syringe feeding, her breathing is super fast. I'm thinking we may be fighting a losing battle here. We can't seem to stop the vomiting, and while she's doing that, we can't keep food/water down her. She's going downhill meanwhile. I would like to try to feel less stressed and more positive around her, but it seems so hard. Everytime I look at her lying there so depressed, with her beautiful white fur stained from food/vomit, when she should be racing around the house without a care in the world, I just can't stop the tears. This waiting is definately the hardest part. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them *unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy*, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of *because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough*. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two, for the first day, then maybe 15 to 25 every couple of hours then next day, and unfortunetly you aren't going to find many, if any vets willing to devote that kind of time to one animal so it would probably be better if she were home if you can devote that kind of time to her care. Other reasons include the tube not being placed correctly, with an e-tube there is a specific area the tube should be, not higher not lower or it will cause nausea in *some* cats. It should *NOT *enter the stomach, it should be between the 7th and 9th rib, this is easily verifiable with an xray. An nasel gastric tube is uncomfortable and only ever should be used in emergencies, which Kisa is at this time, think about it a cats nostril is tiny, imagine having something shoved in it. BUT once Kisa is strong enough she should get an e-tube, it is the safest easiest tube for feeding. A peg tube is used when an e-tube for whatever reason doesn't work. Or the vet just prefers it, much more expensive, and a more extensive surgery too, but some vets will only do them, in my opinion because they are money hungry. Taylor this tube probably wasn't placed right. It didn't seem to want to go down into her tummy and would just come right back up and out around the bandage on her neck. It was a totally awful experience all the way around. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
Hi Cassandra, Just read your email and see you have Kisa at home. That's great. Are you home all day, if so try what I said. Never give meds on an empty tummy. I'm starting to wonder if Kisa doesn't have pancreatitis going on, if she continues to vomit once your feeding small amounts more often, I would see about checking her for that, there is a specfic test that can detect it, something like a PLR, I'll find out my friend has had a couple of cats with it. She has many special needs cats. One cat has had pancreatitis off and on for the last 10 years and is still going strong, she is 14 now (the cat). Of course the vets gave up on her long ago. PS. Some vomiting at first is probably not out of the ordinary given her fatty liver,and hemo, she is very sick, some, actually many cats get worse before they get better. Of course you don't want vomiting every meal or it isn't doing any good, but with smaller meals and I'm serious, 10 to 20ccs every hour or two to start is big enough, and you will have to feed round the clock to start. Sick kitties can take alot of work to get well when they are as sick as Kisa is, but they will recover if you can devote the time and care she needs. And once the antibiotics start working on the hemo, she will feel better and hopefully start getting her appetite back. Pleas don't loose heart, you have a long road ahead of you but you can do it. I'm here any time you need to talk or rant or anything. If she is vomiting alot you may want give fluids, vomiting causes dehydration. Dehydration makes a cat feel horrible. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
The thing is with the vomiting though, I don't think its just because i'm feeding her. For the last week, she's been vomiting consistently before I ever feed her. When the vomiting first started suddenly, she vomited several times a day with a completely empty stomach for about 3 days. We then started syringe feeding her, and as soon as we brought her out from her hiding spot, she would vomitthen we would syringe her the food. So yesterday, she vomited after syringing her the food, so I probably gave too much to start. I took her to the vet today, to get the tube put back in, and she got a shot of metachlopramide. Now the problem is, they didn't give me any more of the metachlopramide because they said its a drug filtered by the liver, and if her liver isn't functioning properly, too much of that will cause a problem. They just said to feed her about 12cc followed by 4cc water3 times a day.to see if she would keep that down. I mentioned that I didn't know how i'd be able to get enough calories into her with that small amount, but they just said to see how it goes. What a pain in the butt, because i'm fairly certain that even if I feed her such a tiny amount, i'm betting she's still going to vomit here at some point...possibly vomiting out that tube again. If she vomits again today, i'll have to get more of the metachlopramide even if its going to cause a problem with her liver. This seems to be a no win situation here. Plus, she's definately not feeling very well. All she wants to do is hide, and then lay in one spot all day. I wouldn't doubt it if she's depressed after all this. I notice her breathing seems fast also. I took her to bed with me last night, because she seems to enjoy that, and she did purr for awhile. The problem was, she was peeing about every 3 hours (probably from being on the IV for 2 days), and she was doing it in bed. I put plastic and towels under her, but she missed them once and I had to rip the bed apart in the middle of the night before it soaked too deep. She is too lethargic to get up for anything, unless its running to hide somewhere. All I can do is pray for a miracle, that somehow she will be able to pull through this mess since everything seems to be going wrong. Even my vet, who seems pretty good so far is gone now for a few weeks, so i'll have to deal with a different vet that doesn't know what's been going on so far. I was liking this vet, because he wasn't all doom and gloom like the last 2 vets i've dealt with. If he had the opinion that Kisa didn't have much of a chance, he kept it to himself, and was willing to try whatever I wanted. The last 2 vets i've had were always wanting to make it quite clear that she didn't have a chance and it wasn't worth spending too much on her. I don't see any reason why a vet has to make sure that you have no hope, hope is the only thing that keeps me functioning. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two, for the first day, then maybe 15 to 25 every couple of hours then next day, and unfortunetly you aren't going to find many, if any vets willing to devote that kind of time to one animal so it would probably be better if she were home if you can devote that kind of time to her care. Other reasons include the tube not being placed correctly, with an e-tube there is a specific area the tube should be, not higher not lower or it will cause nausea in some cats. It should NOT enter the stomach, it should be between the 7th and 9th rib, this is easily verifiable with an xray. An nasel gastric tube is uncomfortable and only ever should be used in emergencies, which Kisa is at this time, think about it a cats nostril is tiny, imagine having something shoved in it. BUT once Kisa is strong enough she should get an e-tube, it is the safest easiest tube for feeding. A peg tube
Re: Update on Kisa
PS...one question, how fast do you syringe the food down the tube. I've just been pushing the plunger steadily but slowly. About 2cc per second. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two, for the first day, then maybe 15 to 25 every couple of hours then next day, and unfortunetly you aren't going to find many, if any vets willing to devote that kind of time to one animal so it would probably be better if she were home if you can devote that kind of time to her care. Other reasons include the tube not being placed correctly, with an e-tube there is a specific area the tube should be, not higher not lower or it will cause nausea in some cats. It should NOT enter the stomach, it should be between the 7th and 9th rib, this is easily verifiable with an xray. An nasel gastric tube is uncomfortable and only ever should be used in emergencies, which Kisa is at this time, think about it a cats nostril is tiny, imagine having something shoved in it. BUT once Kisa is strong enough she should get an e-tube, it is the safest easiest tube for feeding. A peg tube is used when an e-tube for whatever reason doesn't work. Or the vet just prefers it, much more expensive, and a more extensive surgery too, but some vets will only do them, in my opinion because they are money hungry. Taylor this tube probably wasn't placed right. It didn't seem to want to go down into her tummy and would just come right back up and out around the bandage on her neck. It was a totally awful experience all the way around. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
If you get the injectable metachlopramide it bypasses the liver. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
I would push in 2 or 3 ccs and wait a few seconds then do 2 or 3 more ccs. I always wait a few seconds to give the food time to get down into the tummy. So I don't steadily plunge food in but give a few seconds break after each 2 or 3 ccs. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
At 12:13 PM 5/30/2007, you wrote: ask about anzamet and Zofran ...even compaziner for vomiting??  The thing is with the vomiting though, I don't think its just because i'm feeding her. For the last week, she's been vomiting consistently before I ever feed her. When the vomiting first started suddenly, she vomited several times a day with a completely empty stomach for about 3 days. We then started syringe feeding her, and as soon as we brought her out from her hiding spot, she would vomitthen we would syringe her the food. So yesterday, she vomited after syringing her the food, so I probably gave too much to start. I took her to the vet today, to get the tube put back in, and she got a shot of metachlopramide. Now the problem is, they didn't give me any more of the metachlopramide because they said its a drug filtered by the liver, and if her liver isn't functioning properly, too much of that will cause a problem. They just said to feed her about 12cc followed by 4cc water3 times a day.to see if she would keep that down. I mentioned that I didn't know how i'd be able to get enough calories into her with that small amount, but they just said to see how it goes. What a pain in the butt, because i'm fairly certain that even if I feed her such a tiny amount, i'm betting she's still going to vomit here at some point...possibly vomiting out that tube again. If she vomits again today, i'll have to get more of the metachlopramide even if its going to cause a problem with her liver. This seems to be a no win situation here. Plus, she's definately not feeling very well. All she wants to do is hide, and then lay in one spot all day. I wouldn't doubt it if she's depressed after all this. I notice her breathing seems fast also. I took her to bed with me last night, because she seems to enjoy that, and she did purr for awhile. The problem was, she was peeing about every 3 hours (probably from being on the IV for 2 days), and she was doing it in bed. I put plastic and towels under her, but she missed them once and I had to rip the bed apart in the middle of the night before it soaked too deep. She is too lethargic to get up for anything, unless its running to hide somewhere. All I can do is pray for a miracle, that somehow she will be able to pull through this mess since everything seems to be going wrong. Even my vet, who seems pretty good so far is gone now for a few weeks, so i'll have to deal with a different vet that doesn't know what's been going on so far. I was liking this vet, because he wasn't all doom and gloom like the last 2 vets i've dealt with. If he had the opinion that Kisa didn't have much of a chance, he kept it to himself, and was willing to try whatever I wanted. The last 2 vets i've had were always wanting to make it quite clear that she didn't have a chance and it wasn't worth spending too much on her. I don't see any reason why a vet has to make sure that you have no hope, hope is the only thing that keeps me functioning. Cassandra - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Belinda To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two, for the first day, then maybe 15 to 25 every couple of hours then next day, and unfortunetly you aren't going to find many, if any vets willing to devote that kind of time to one animal so it would probably be better if she were home if you can devote that kind of time to her care. Other reasons include the tube not being placed correctly, with an e-tube there is a specific area the tube should be, not higher not lower or it will cause nausea in some cats. It should NOT enter the stomach, it should be between the 7th and 9th rib, this is easily verifiable with an xray. An nasel gastric tube is uncomfortable and only ever should be used in emergencies, which Kisa is at this time, think about
RE: Update on Kisa
Cassandra: Best of luck with Kisa. I know that can be so discouraging when being told to put the kitty down or that it's not worth the money. It seems to me that we'd do whatever we could for humans, why not for our feline family members? Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C J Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 2:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The thing is with the vomiting though, I don't think its just because i'm feeding her. For the last week, she's been vomiting consistently before I ever feed her. When the vomiting first started suddenly, she vomited several times a day with a completely empty stomach for about 3 days. We then started syringe feeding her, and as soon as we brought her out from her hiding spot, she would vomitthen we would syringe her the food. So yesterday, she vomited after syringing her the food, so I probably gave too much to start. I took her to the vet today, to get the tube put back in, and she got a shot of metachlopramide. Now the problem is, they didn't give me any more of the metachlopramide because they said its a drug filtered by the liver, and if her liver isn't functioning properly, too much of that will cause a problem. They just said to feed her about 12cc followed by 4cc water3 times a day.to see if she would keep that down. I mentioned that I didn't know how i'd be able to get enough calories into her with that small amount, but they just said to see how it goes. What a pain in the butt, because i'm fairly certain that even if I feed her such a tiny amount, i'm betting she's still going to vomit here at some point...possibly vomiting out that tube again. If she vomits again today, i'll have to get more of the metachlopramide even if its going to cause a problem with her liver. This seems to be a no win situation here. Plus, she's definately not feeling very well. All she wants to do is hide, and then lay in one spot all day. I wouldn't doubt it if she's depressed after all this. I notice her breathing seems fast also. I took her to bed with me last night, because she seems to enjoy that, and she did purr for awhile. The problem was, she was peeing about every 3 hours (probably from being on the IV for 2 days), and she was doing it in bed. I put plastic and towels under her, but she missed them once and I had to rip the bed apart in the middle of the night before it soaked too deep. She is too lethargic to get up for anything, unless its running to hide somewhere. All I can do is pray for a miracle, that somehow she will be able to pull through this mess since everything seems to be going wrong. Even my vet, who seems pretty good so far is gone now for a few weeks, so i'll have to deal with a different vet that doesn't know what's been going on so far. I was liking this vet, because he wasn't all doom and gloom like the last 2 vets i've dealt with. If he had the opinion that Kisa didn't have much of a chance, he kept it to himself, and was willing to try whatever I wanted. The last 2 vets i've had were always wanting to make it quite clear that she didn't have a chance and it wasn't worth spending too much on her. I don't see any reason why a vet has to make sure that you have no hope, hope is the only thing that keeps me functioning. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two, for the first day, then maybe 15 to 25 every couple of hours then next day, and unfortunetly you aren't going to find many, if any vets willing to devote that kind of time to one animal so it would probably be better if she were home if you can devote that kind of time to her care. Other reasons include the tube not being placed correctly, with an e-tube there is a specific area the tube should be, not higher not lower or it will cause nausea in some cats
Re: Update on Kisa
Well, the bad luck is just continuing...I dont' know how much more I can handle. I gave Kisa just 12cc of food followed by 4cc water. About and hour and a half later, she vomited. I tried giving her some more, and now the tube is plugged. I can't get water or anything through it. I called the vet, and i'm going to get more of the metachlopramide, but they said it may not help her because she feels so sick due to toxins building up that the liver isn't filtering. I guess she gets to go get a new tube put in tomorrow. So far she's only had that 12cc of food today...and I guess I have to put her through the stress of another syringe feeding tonight. I could just scream about now. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The thing is with the vomiting though, I don't think its just because i'm feeding her. For the last week, she's been vomiting consistently before I ever feed her. When the vomiting first started suddenly, she vomited several times a day with a completely empty stomach for about 3 days. We then started syringe feeding her, and as soon as we brought her out from her hiding spot, she would vomitthen we would syringe her the food. So yesterday, she vomited after syringing her the food, so I probably gave too much to start. I took her to the vet today, to get the tube put back in, and she got a shot of metachlopramide. Now the problem is, they didn't give me any more of the metachlopramide because they said its a drug filtered by the liver, and if her liver isn't functioning properly, too much of that will cause a problem. They just said to feed her about 12cc followed by 4cc water3 times a day.to see if she would keep that down. I mentioned that I didn't know how i'd be able to get enough calories into her with that small amount, but they just said to see how it goes. What a pain in the butt, because i'm fairly certain that even if I feed her such a tiny amount, i'm betting she's still going to vomit here at some point...possibly vomiting out that tube again. If she vomits again today, i'll have to get more of the metachlopramide even if its going to cause a problem with her liver. This seems to be a no win situation here. Plus, she's definately not feeling very well. All she wants to do is hide, and then lay in one spot all day. I wouldn't doubt it if she's depressed after all this. I notice her breathing seems fast also. I took her to bed with me last night, because she seems to enjoy that, and she did purr for awhile. The problem was, she was peeing about every 3 hours (probably from being on the IV for 2 days), and she was doing it in bed. I put plastic and towels under her, but she missed them once and I had to rip the bed apart in the middle of the night before it soaked too deep. She is too lethargic to get up for anything, unless its running to hide somewhere. All I can do is pray for a miracle, that somehow she will be able to pull through this mess since everything seems to be going wrong. Even my vet, who seems pretty good so far is gone now for a few weeks, so i'll have to deal with a different vet that doesn't know what's been going on so far. I was liking this vet, because he wasn't all doom and gloom like the last 2 vets i've dealt with. If he had the opinion that Kisa didn't have much of a chance, he kept it to himself, and was willing to try whatever I wanted. The last 2 vets i've had were always wanting to make it quite clear that she didn't have a chance and it wasn't worth spending too much on her. I don't see any reason why a vet has to make sure that you have no hope, hope is the only thing that keeps me functioning. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e-tube in the esphogus) and never had a problem with vomiting with any of them unless I was going too fast or giving meds on an empty tummy, once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was no longer an issue. All of my feeding tube experiences as far as the feeding themselves went beautifully. Fred did have an infection problem at the entry site that we couldn't get rid of because the vets wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics long enough. But his feedings went great and he gained back most of the weight he had lost, he never vomited once even with is infection problem. There are several reasons a cat will vomit when getting fed through a feeding tube, getting fed too fast, getting too much food at once, when a cat hasn't eaten for as long as Kisa hasn't you have to go slowly and build up to a bigger amount. What I mean is, she needs to be fed 10 to 20 cc's every hour or two
Re: Update on Kisa
When the Royal Princess Kitty Katt was having problems a friend commented that I was throwing good money after bad. I've never cared for her sinceand it is MY money. This is to say, please listen to your heart ant to Kisa. Check with an AC to see what she thinks and wants. Re: peeing in the bed. There are large pads that are used under patients in nursing homes and hospitals. They can be disposable or washable. Get some. They will protect the bed and absorb the urine and be very difficult to miss. You may have to lay on part of it but, from experience with a large dog, they work great. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Melissa Lind To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:26 PM Subject: RE: Update on Kisa Cassandra: Best of luck with Kisa. I know that can be so discouraging when being told to put the kitty down or that it's not worth the money. It seems to me that we'd do whatever we could for humans, why not for our feline family members? Melissa -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C J Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 2:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The thing is with the vomiting though, I don't think its just because i'm feeding her. For the last week, she's been vomiting consistently before I ever feed her. When the vomiting first started suddenly, she vomited several times a day with a completely empty stomach for about 3 days. We then started syringe feeding her, and as soon as we brought her out from her hiding spot, she would vomitthen we would syringe her the food. So yesterday, she vomited after syringing her the food, so I probably gave too much to start. I took her to the vet today, to get the tube put back in, and she got a shot of metachlopramide. Now the problem is, they didn't give me any more of the metachlopramide because they said its a drug filtered by the liver, and if her liver isn't functioning properly, too much of that will cause a problem. They just said to feed her about 12cc followed by 4cc water3 times a day.to see if she would keep that down. I mentioned that I didn't know how i'd be able to get enough calories into her with that small amount, but they just said to see how it goes. What a pain in the butt, because i'm fairly certain that even if I feed her such a tiny amount, i'm betting she's still going to vomit here at some point...possibly vomiting out that tube again. If she vomits again today, i'll have to get more of the metachlopramide even if its going to cause a problem with her liver. This seems to be a no win situation here. Plus, she's definately not feeling very well. All she wants to do is hide, and then lay in one spot all day. I wouldn't doubt it if she's depressed after all this. I notice her breathing seems fast also. I took her to bed with me last night, because she seems to enjoy that, and she did purr for awhile. The problem was, she was peeing about every 3 hours (probably from being on the IV for 2 days), and she was doing it in bed. I put plastic and towels under her, but she missed them once and I had to rip the bed apart in the middle of the night before it soaked too deep. She is too lethargic to get up for anything, unless its running to hide somewhere. All I can do is pray for a miracle, that somehow she will be able to pull through this mess since everything seems to be going wrong. Even my vet, who seems pretty good so far is gone now for a few weeks, so i'll have to deal with a different vet that doesn't know what's been going on so far. I was liking this vet, because he wasn't all doom and gloom like the last 2 vets i've dealt with. If he had the opinion that Kisa didn't have much of a chance, he kept it to himself, and was willing to try whatever I wanted. The last 2 vets i've had were always wanting to make it quite clear that she didn't have a chance and it wasn't worth spending too much on her. I don't see any reason why a vet has to make sure that you have no hope, hope is the only thing that keeps me functioning. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding tube (e
Re: Update on Kisa
Talk to her and see what she wantsexplain that you are not doing this to harm her or be mean to her but to help her stay with you where she is loved. She needs to understand what is going on. They pick up on so much but sometimes, like people, misunderstand or take it the wrong way. Talk to her. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Well, the bad luck is just continuing...I dont' know how much more I can handle. I gave Kisa just 12cc of food followed by 4cc water. About and hour and a half later, she vomited. I tried giving her some more, and now the tube is plugged. I can't get water or anything through it. I called the vet, and i'm going to get more of the metachlopramide, but they said it may not help her because she feels so sick due to toxins building up that the liver isn't filtering. I guess she gets to go get a new tube put in tomorrow. So far she's only had that 12cc of food today...and I guess I have to put her through the stress of another syringe feeding tonight. I could just scream about now. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa The thing is with the vomiting though, I don't think its just because i'm feeding her. For the last week, she's been vomiting consistently before I ever feed her. When the vomiting first started suddenly, she vomited several times a day with a completely empty stomach for about 3 days. We then started syringe feeding her, and as soon as we brought her out from her hiding spot, she would vomitthen we would syringe her the food. So yesterday, she vomited after syringing her the food, so I probably gave too much to start. I took her to the vet today, to get the tube put back in, and she got a shot of metachlopramide. Now the problem is, they didn't give me any more of the metachlopramide because they said its a drug filtered by the liver, and if her liver isn't functioning properly, too much of that will cause a problem. They just said to feed her about 12cc followed by 4cc water3 times a day.to see if she would keep that down. I mentioned that I didn't know how i'd be able to get enough calories into her with that small amount, but they just said to see how it goes. What a pain in the butt, because i'm fairly certain that even if I feed her such a tiny amount, i'm betting she's still going to vomit here at some point...possibly vomiting out that tube again. If she vomits again today, i'll have to get more of the metachlopramide even if its going to cause a problem with her liver. This seems to be a no win situation here. Plus, she's definately not feeling very well. All she wants to do is hide, and then lay in one spot all day. I wouldn't doubt it if she's depressed after all this. I notice her breathing seems fast also. I took her to bed with me last night, because she seems to enjoy that, and she did purr for awhile. The problem was, she was peeing about every 3 hours (probably from being on the IV for 2 days), and she was doing it in bed. I put plastic and towels under her, but she missed them once and I had to rip the bed apart in the middle of the night before it soaked too deep. She is too lethargic to get up for anything, unless its running to hide somewhere. All I can do is pray for a miracle, that somehow she will be able to pull through this mess since everything seems to be going wrong. Even my vet, who seems pretty good so far is gone now for a few weeks, so i'll have to deal with a different vet that doesn't know what's been going on so far. I was liking this vet, because he wasn't all doom and gloom like the last 2 vets i've dealt with. If he had the opinion that Kisa didn't have much of a chance, he kept it to himself, and was willing to try whatever I wanted. The last 2 vets i've had were always wanting to make it quite clear that she didn't have a chance and it wasn't worth spending too much on her. I don't see any reason why a vet has to make sure that you have no hope, hope is the only thing that keeps me functioning. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa Cassandra, I've had 3 cats with feeding
To Cassandra Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with all of this, and Kisa too, of course. It sounds like you are about to blow a fuse. Keep in mind that if you can just stick it out a little while longer, things will either get better or Kisa will pass, but they will not stay the same. The waiting for me was always the hardest. I always wished that either my kitty would get better quickly, or if they were going to pass, that it happen quickly and painlessly. But sitting around, watching my kitty be in pain and being aware that he might not understand what is happening, and then after all the struggling to survive, he might die anyway, just killed me. I could barely function at work. Things will change Cassandra. Just stick it out a while longer; don't give up hope. And while Kisa passing is certainly not what you are hoping for, if it's inevitable, at least it will bring some peace to both of you and take the weight of waiting and watching Kisa in pain off your shoulders. Just try to stick it out. All your hard work, and Kisa's too, might have a very happy ending. Remember what you and Kisa are fighting for. And talk to her like Marylyn said. You might consider taking a hot bath if you have a bit of time. It will do wonders to relax you. Please keep us posted. We're all praying for Kisa and you both. Bless you for what you are doing for her. :) Wendy --- C J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the bad luck is just continuing...I dont' know how much more I can handle. I gave Kisa just 12cc of food followed by 4cc water. About and hour and a half later, she vomited. I tried giving her some more, and now the tube is plugged. I can't get water or anything through it. I called the vet, and i'm going to get more of the metachlopramide, but they said it may not help her because she feels so sick due to toxins building up that the liver isn't filtering. I guess she gets to go get a new tube put in tomorrow. So far she's only had that 12cc of food today...and I guess I have to put her through the stress of another syringe feeding tonight. I could just scream about now. Cassandra Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: Update on Kisa
I'd just like to add to this to try and feel be stressed, frustrated or think negatively, I know that seems almost impossible when things just seem to keep not working but cats are very sensitive to our feelings and your stress and fear is being picked up by her. With every fiber of your being think positive and actually see and picture things going right in your minds eye, it will make a difference, I promise ... positive, positive, positive energy, I can't stress that enough. Not sure what your vet told you about the metacloprimide but it should be given 3 times a day about a half hour before the meal it is preceding (Kisa should get more meals than that but give the metacloprimide a half hour to the meal it is closest to). There are exceptions to that, Bailey needed to get his metachloprimide an hour before or he was still a bit nauseous when I fed him. Buddie, Bailey and Fred got 1cc three times a day, it helps to get the digestive juices flowing since they aren't producing saliva because they aren't eating by way of the mouth, saliva starts the digestive process. Talk to her and see what she wantsexplain that you are not doing this to harm her or be mean to her but to help her stay with you where she is loved. She needs to understand what is going on. They pick up on so much but sometimes, like people, misunderstand or take it the wrong way. Talk to her. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
Oh my god, I guess I should read my message before I send it, I meant ... try not to feel stressed I'd just like to add to this to try and feel be stressed, frustrated or think negatively, I know that seems almost impossible when things just seem to keep not working but cats are very sensitive to our feelings and your stress and fear is being picked up by her. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
LOL Belinda...we knew what you meant. The info. you are giving is really good. I'm saving all of it for future reference. Thanks for taking the time to write it and help Cassandra and Kisa out. I just love this group! :) Wendy --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh my god, I guess I should read my message before I send it, I meant ... try not to feel stressed I'd just like to add to this to try and feel be stressed, frustrated or think negatively, I know that seems almost impossible when things just seem to keep not working but cats are very sensitive to our feelings and your stress and fear is being picked up by her. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
Re: Update on Kisa
The metachlopramide doesn't seem to be helping. She had a shot this morning, and vomited mid afternoon. Then I gave her a shot tonight, and fed her 30 mins later...she vomited that up. We actually pulled her tube out, unclogged it, and put it back in. But when she vomited tonight, she vomited it out again, and bit it off. I'm thinking of getting some more tubes from the vet, and just putting them in ourselves. We syringe fed her 30cc along with her pills after that, hopefully she can keep that down for awhile. She seems to keep stuff down if you give it to her after she vomits. The syringe feeding is not a good thing to do with her, she gets so stressed out about it. Her breathing is fairly rapid now, and doing the syringe feeding, her breathing is super fast. I'm thinking we may be fighting a losing battle here. We can't seem to stop the vomiting, and while she's doing that, we can't keep food/water down her. She's going downhill meanwhile. I would like to try to feel less stressed and more positive around her, but it seems so hard. Everytime I look at her lying there so depressed, with her beautiful white fur stained from food/vomit, when she should be racing around the house without a care in the world, I just can't stop the tears. This waiting is definately the hardest part. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I'd just like to add to this to try and feel be stressed, frustrated or think negatively, I know that seems almost impossible when things just seem to keep not working but cats are very sensitive to our feelings and your stress and fear is being picked up by her. With every fiber of your being think positive and actually see and picture things going right in your minds eye, it will make a difference, I promise ... positive, positive, positive energy, I can't stress that enough. Not sure what your vet told you about the metacloprimide but it should be given 3 times a day about a half hour before the meal it is preceding (Kisa should get more meals than that but give the metacloprimide a half hour to the meal it is closest to). There are exceptions to that, Bailey needed to get his metachloprimide an hour before or he was still a bit nauseous when I fed him. Buddie, Bailey and Fred got 1cc three times a day, it helps to get the digestive juices flowing since they aren't producing saliva because they aren't eating by way of the mouth, saliva starts the digestive process. Talk to her and see what she wantsexplain that you are not doing this to harm her or be mean to her but to help her stay with you where she is loved. She needs to understand what is going on. They pick up on so much but sometimes, like people, misunderstand or take it the wrong way. Talk to her. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I know it's hard, believe me I know and I'm not saying don't have your moments of sadness, they are going to creep in just don't do it in front of Kisa, try to always feel positive around her and picture her getting better and keeping her food down. When your alone and Kisa is not nearby and your feeling stressed go ahead and have a good cry, then pick yourself up and put all the stress and fear behind you and think she is getting better, she will keep her food, her health is improving. What was her HCT, how anemic is she? Is she getting any nutrived to help with that? PS. I know because when Fred has his bad days and doesn't want to eat as well I think, oh no things are changing, it could be the start of a downward spiral, but them I remember his weight is good, in fact with his arthritis acting up maybe too good!! I just try to remember with Fred at a very good weight now if he eats a little less one day it's not a big deal as long as its only for a day and I keep a close eye on his weight so if it becomes a problem I'll know immediately and will be taking him in. I would not hesitate to get a feeding tube again if he needs one. Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Kisa
I brought Kisa home from the vet today. She's been fully hydrated and had a nasal feeding tube in place, with the lovely lampshade around her neck. She is still very lethargic/depressed, but a little more alert and her eyes look better. We're still no closer to a proper diagnosis though, because she is too weak to undergo surgery to obtain a biopsy of her liver. At the vet, she wasn't vomiting much at all, but once I got her home and fed her 30cc of liquid food, followed by 5 cc of water, she promptly vomited it all up. I gaver her another 20cc after that. Two hours later, I gave her another 30 ccand...well she vomited up her feeding tube shortly thereafter. She vomited up so much, that she must have had most of that 20cc from 2 hrs earlier in her belly still. What a nightmare. I guess we go back to the vet tomorrow to get another tube put insigh. The vet said we can try metachlopromide (or however its spelled) if she vomits alot, so I suppose that will be the next thing we have to try. We really need a break here. Her only chance is to get healthy enough just from feeding and giving the doxycycline so that we can hopefully do a biopsy. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: 5/21/2007 2:01 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
I am surprised she is not on Regaln already...( that is the drug you mentioned) safe and effective,,it aids in emptying the stomach and increasins peristalsis ,,so they do not vomit, ask for injectable!! thanks for the update and keep us posted, Kelly I brought Kisa home from the vet today. She's been fully hydrated and had a nasal feeding tube in place, with the lovely lampshade around her neck. She is still very lethargic/depressed, but a little more alert and her eyes look better. We're still no closer to a proper diagnosis though, because she is too weak to undergo surgery to obtain a biopsy of her liver. At the vet, she wasn't vomiting much at all, but once I got her home and fed her 30cc of liquid food, followed by 5 cc of water, she promptly vomited it all up. I gaver her another 20cc after that. Two hours later, I gave her another 30 ccand...well she vomited up her feeding tube shortly thereafter. She vomited up so much, that she must have had most of that 20cc from 2 hrs earlier in her belly still. What a nightmare. I guess we go back to the vet tomorrow to get another tube put insigh. The vet said we can try metachlopromide (or however its spelled) if she vomits alot, so I suppose that will be the next thing we have to try. We really need a break here. Her only chance is to get healthy enough just from feeding and giving the doxycycline so that we can hopefully do a biopsy. Cassandra - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]C J To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: 5/21/2007 2:01 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 5/28/2007 11:40 AM
Re: Update on Kisa
Metaclopramide should work beautifully. Oh, Lord, vomiting up her feeding tube, yuck. Poor baby! 35cc seems like a lot of food all at once but I know she needs a certain amount every day just to stay even. They said that much? Maybe it was too cold or too warm or too fast. I've done tube feeding (with a tube down the throat through the neck) and that was equally awful. It didn't seem to want to go down into her tummy and would just come right back up and out around the bandage on her neck. It was a totally awful experience all the way around. We'll be praying for your little one tonight and tomorrow. Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation. On May 29, 2007, at 10:35 PM, C J wrote: I brought Kisa home from the vet today. She's been fully hydrated and had a nasal feeding tube in place, with the lovely lampshade around her neck. She is still very lethargic/depressed, but a little more alert and her eyes look better. We're still no closer to a proper diagnosis though, because she is too weak to undergo surgery to obtain a biopsy of her liver. At the vet, she wasn't vomiting much at all, but once I got her home and fed her 30cc of liquid food, followed by 5 cc of water, she promptly vomited it all up. I gaver her another 20cc after that. Two hours later, I gave her another 30 ccand...well she vomited up her feeding tube shortly thereafter. She vomited up so much, that she must have had most of that 20cc from 2 hrs earlier in her belly still. What a nightmare. I guess we go back to the vet tomorrow to get another tube put insigh. The vet said we can try metachlopromide (or however its spelled) if she vomits alot, so I suppose that will be the next thing we have to try. We really need a break here. Her only chance is to get healthy enough just from feeding and giving the doxycycline so that we can hopefully do a biopsy. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: 5/21/2007 2:01 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
I visited Kisa three times at the vet today, and she's going to be spending another night there. They're keeping her on the IV. They also put in a feeding tube through her nose, so she's got that taped to the top of her head, and a cone around her neck. She seems a little more alert, but she didn't get up at all. She purred while I pet her, but it is so hard to see her like this. They found the presence of Hemobartonella, and she was looking pale, so they are giving her doxycycline now instead of batyril. She wasn't anemic on Tuesday, but she may be now. They also did an X-ray, and it looks like her liver is quite enlarged. The vet figures it probably is cancer. The only way to know for sure is the liver biopsy, but she is too weak for general anesthetic right now. The nearest place where she can receive cancer treatment is 6-7 hours away from here. I didn't ask yet how much this would cost. She would basically start the treatment there, then the vet here could probably do the chemo after all the diagnosis is done. I'm really now sure how feasible that would be for me. I've got other kitties to look after, and a job to go to...not to mention the cost for a treatment that may or may not help her. He suggested we wait and see how she is tomorrow after another day on the IV. What an ordeal..why is it we have to make such hard decisions when it comes to the lives of our little ones? I don't want to put her through a bunch of stress and pain just to have her die anyway, and wish I hadn't put her through so much. Yet I find it so hard to give up on her. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: 5/21/2007 2:01 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
At 04:41 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: I am so sorry you are both going through this. this is what we all face, thank goodness for wach other. I am sure Kisa was glad to have you visit and she must be feeling better not to be so dehydrated. Those are good things, I am probably way off base but is there a chance theliver is enlarged due to lipidosis or it it remarkably enlarged, Sadly cancer is so common with our special FELV angels. I have heard that theri response to treatment is as good as a non FELV cat, but Liver cancer is a very hard one, She is getting some much needed nutrition and those N.G. ( nasogastric) tubes are not uncomfortable. they just look awful... Please keep us updated and write as often as you like, We are all here with you. Kelly Lane I visited Kisa three times at the vet today, and she's going to be spending another night there. They're keeping her on the IV. They also put in a feeding tube through her nose, so she's got that taped to the top of her head, and a cone around her neck. She seems a little more alert, but she didn't get up at all. She purred while I pet her, but it is so hard to see her like this. They found the presence of Hemobartonella, and she was looking pale, so they are giving her doxycycline now instead of batyril. She wasn't anemic on Tuesday, but she may be now. They also did an X-ray, and it looks like her liver is quite enlarged. The vet figures it probably is cancer. The only way to know for sure is the liver biopsy, but she is too weak for general anesthetic right now. The nearest place where she can receive cancer treatment is 6-7 hours away from here. I didn't ask yet how much this would cost. She would basically start the treatment there, then the vet here could probably do the chemo after all the diagnosis is done. I'm really now sure how feasible that would be for me. I've got other kitties to look after, and a job to go to...not to mention the cost for a treatment that may or may not help her. He suggested we wait and see how she is tomorrow after another day on the IV. What an ordeal..why is it we have to make such hard decisions when it comes to the lives of our little ones? I don't want to put her through a bunch of stress and pain just to have her die anyway, and wish I hadn't put her through so much. Yet I find it so hard to give up on her. Cassandra - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]C J To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: 5/21/2007 2:01 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/821 - Release Date: 5/27/2007 3:05 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
If you find it hard to give up on Kisa, well, DON'T! Will you please ask your vet if a fine-needle biopsy of Kisa's liver is feasible? Then she won't need general anesthesia because it's a poke instead of an operation. We all have some variation of other kitties and jobs and kids and aging parents and spouses and houses to care for. If you can get her started at the oncologist and then have your vet do it, that sounds ideal. Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 28, 2007, at 6:41 PM, C J wrote: I visited Kisa three times at the vet today, and she's going to be spending another night there. They're keeping her on the IV. They also put in a feeding tube through her nose, so she's got that taped to the top of her head, and a cone around her neck. She seems a little more alert, but she didn't get up at all. She purred while I pet her, but it is so hard to see her like this. They found the presence of Hemobartonella, and she was looking pale, so they are giving her doxycycline now instead of batyril. She wasn't anemic on Tuesday, but she may be now. They also did an X-ray, and it looks like her liver is quite enlarged. The vet figures it probably is cancer. The only way to know for sure is the liver biopsy, but she is too weak for general anesthetic right now. The nearest place where she can receive cancer treatment is 6-7 hours away from here. I didn't ask yet how much this would cost. She would basically start the treatment there, then the vet here could probably do the chemo after all the diagnosis is done. I'm really now sure how feasible that would be for me. I've got other kitties to look after, and a job to go to...not to mention the cost for a treatment that may or may not help her. He suggested we wait and see how she is tomorrow after another day on the IV. What an ordeal..why is it we have to make such hard decisions when it comes to the lives of our little ones? I don't want to put her through a bunch of stress and pain just to have her die anyway, and wish I hadn't put her through so much. Yet I find it so hard to give up on her. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: 5/21/2007 2:01 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
You are such a wonderful mommy to see little Kisa so often. That is doing a great deal to help in her recovery. Everyone likes to see somebody they love when they are ill. Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 28, 2007, at 6:52 PM, Kelly L wrote: At 04:41 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: I am so sorry you are both going through this. this is what we all face, thank goodness for wach other. I am sure Kisa was glad to have you visit and she must be feeling better not to be so dehydrated. Those are good things, I am probably way off base but is there a chance theliver is enlarged due to lipidosis or it it remarkably enlarged, Sadly cancer is so common with our special FELV angels. I have heard that theri response to treatment is as good as a non FELV cat, but Liver cancer is a very hard one, She is getting some much needed nutrition and those N.G. ( nasogastric) tubes are not uncomfortable. they just look awful... Please keep us updated and write as often as you like, We are all here with you. Kelly Lane I visited Kisa three times at the vet today, and she's going to be spending another night there. They're keeping her on the IV. They also put in a feeding tube through her nose, so she's got that taped to the top of her head, and a cone around her neck. She seems a little more alert, but she didn't get up at all. She purred while I pet her, but it is so hard to see her like this. They found the presence of Hemobartonella, and she was looking pale, so they are giving her doxycycline now instead of batyril. She wasn't anemic on Tuesday, but she may be now. They also did an X-ray, and it looks like her liver is quite enlarged. The vet figures it probably is cancer. The only way to know for sure is the liver biopsy, but she is too weak for general anesthetic right now. The nearest place where she can receive cancer treatment is 6-7 hours away from here. I didn't ask yet how much this would cost. She would basically start the treatment there, then the vet here could probably do the chemo after all the diagnosis is done. I'm really now sure how feasible that would be for me. I've got other kitties to look after, and a job to go to...not to mention the cost for a treatment that may or may not help her. He suggested we wait and see how she is tomorrow after another day on the IV. What an ordeal..why is it we have to make such hard decisions when it comes to the lives of our little ones? I don't want to put her through a bunch of stress and pain just to have her die anyway, and wish I hadn't put her through so much. Yet I find it so hard to give up on her. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: 5/21/2007 2:01 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/821 - Release Date: 5/27/2007 3:05 PM
Re: Update on Kisa
I almost lost a precious one, my boyfriend kitty, to hemobart a few years ago. It was really scary. He had a high fever, his liver values were up, his HCT went down like a rock. But doxycycline saved his life. It is THE drug for hemobart. I would think that the combination of the doxy, the fluids, the nourishment would make her feel a lot better. Pam Kelly L wrote: At 04:41 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: I am so sorry you are both going through this. this is what we all face, thank goodness for wach other. I am sure Kisa was glad to have you visit and she must be feeling better not to be so dehydrated. Those are good things, I am probably way off base but is there a chance theliver is enlarged due to lipidosis or it it remarkably enlarged, Sadly cancer is so common with our special FELV angels. I have heard that theri response to treatment is as good as a non FELV cat, but Liver cancer is a very hard one, She is getting some much needed nutrition and those N.G. ( nasogastric) tubes are not uncomfortable. they just look awful... Please keep us updated and write as often as you like, We are all here with you. Kelly Lane I visited Kisa three times at the vet today, and she's going to be spending another night there. They're keeping her on the IV. They also put in a feeding tube through her nose, so she's got that taped to the top of her head, and a cone around her neck. She seems a little more alert, but she didn't get up at all. She purred while I pet her, but it is so hard to see her like this. They found the presence of Hemobartonella, and she was looking pale, so they are giving her doxycycline now instead of batyril. She wasn't anemic on Tuesday, but she may be now. They also did an X-ray, and it looks like her liver is quite enlarged. The vet figures it probably is cancer. The only way to know for sure is the liver biopsy, but she is too weak for general anesthetic right now. The nearest place where she can receive cancer treatment is 6-7 hours away from here. I didn't ask yet how much this would cost. She would basically start the treatment there, then the vet here could probably do the chemo after all the diagnosis is done. I'm really now sure how feasible that would be for me. I've got other kitties to look after, and a job to go to...not to mention the cost for a treatment that may or may not help her. He suggested we wait and see how she is tomorrow after another day on the IV. What an ordeal..why is it we have to make such hard decisions when it comes to the lives of our little ones? I don't want to put her through a bunch of stress and pain just to have her die anyway, and wish I hadn't put her through so much. Yet I find it so hard to give up on her. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
They can't do the needle biospy here, they don't have the equipment. I'm thinking they need the ultrasound in order to do it. Basically my options are: to have her fully hydrated, put some food into her and hope she feels well enough to do the general anesthesia and biopsy, or to send her 6-7 hours away where they have the ultrasound and equipment to diagnose her with a needle. She still would need the general anesthesia to put a better feeding tube in, though. I'm really not sure I can do the second option, nor am I sure how she would handle a long trip like that. I guess a third option would be to just bring her home with the nasal tube and the plastic collar so she can't rip it out, and hope that the problem isn't cancer, and might clear up if we kept her properly fed and hydrated. The vet says it likely isn't fatty liver, since she wasn't overweight, and didn't stop eating til she got sick, but I guess he can't know for sure without the biopsy. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Taylor Scobie Humphrey To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa If you find it hard to give up on Kisa, well, DON'T! Will you please ask your vet if a fine-needle biopsy of Kisa's liver is feasible? Then she won't need general anesthesia because it's a poke instead of an operation. We all have some variation of other kitties and jobs and kids and aging parents and spouses and houses to care for. If you can get her started at the oncologist and then have your vet do it, that sounds ideal. Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 28, 2007, at 6:41 PM, C J wrote: I visited Kisa three times at the vet today, and she's going to be spending another night there. They're keeping her on the IV. They also put in a feeding tube through her nose, so she's got that taped to the top of her head, and a cone around her neck. She seems a little more alert, but she didn't get up at all. She purred while I pet her, but it is so hard to see her like this. They found the presence of Hemobartonella, and she was looking pale, so they are giving her doxycycline now instead of batyril. She wasn't anemic on Tuesday, but she may be now. They also did an X-ray, and it looks like her liver is quite enlarged. The vet figures it probably is cancer. The only way to know for sure is the liver biopsy, but she is too weak for general anesthetic right now. The nearest place where she can receive cancer treatment is 6-7 hours away from here. I didn't ask yet how much this would cost. She would basically start the treatment there, then the vet here could probably do the chemo after all the diagnosis is done. I'm really now sure how feasible that would be for me. I've got other kitties to look after, and a job to go to...not to mention the cost for a treatment that may or may not help her. He suggested we wait and see how she is tomorrow after another day on the IV. What an ordeal..why is it we have to make such hard decisions when it comes to the lives of our little ones? I don't want to put her through a bunch of stress and pain just to have her die anyway, and wish I hadn't put her through so much. Yet I find it so hard to give up on her. Cassandra - Original Message - From: C J To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassanndra. She MUST stay on the doxy! Be sure you have enough for a minimum of 4 weeks after she is home. Hemobart is a really nasty bug if you stop the doxy, it will come right back. Pam C J wrote: They can't do the needle biospy here, they don't have the equipment. I'm thinking they need the ultrasound in order to do it. Basically my options are: to have her fully hydrated, put some food into her and hope she feels well enough to do the general anesthesia and biopsy, or to send her 6-7 hours away where they have the ultrasound and equipment to diagnose her with a needle. She still would need the general anesthesia to put a better feeding tube in, though. I'm really not sure I can do the second option, nor am I sure how she would handle a long trip like that. I guess a third option would be to just bring her home with the nasal tube and the plastic collar so she can't rip it out, and hope that the problem isn't cancer, and might clear up if we kept her properly fed and hydrated. The vet says it likely isn't fatty liver, since she wasn't overweight, and didn't stop eating til she got sick, but I guess he can't know for sure without the biopsy. Cassandra - Original Message - *From:* Taylor Scobie Humphrey mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Monday, May 28, 2007 9:33 PM *Subject:* Re: Update on Kisa If you find it hard to give up on Kisa, well, DON'T! Will you please ask your vet if a fine-needle biopsy of Kisa's liver is feasible? Then she won't need general anesthesia because it's a poke instead of an operation. We all have some variation of other kitties and jobs and kids and aging parents and spouses and houses to care for. If you can get her started at the oncologist and then have your vet do it, that sounds ideal. Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 28, 2007, at 6:41 PM, C J wrote: I visited Kisa three times at the vet today, and she's going to be spending another night there. They're keeping her on the IV. They also put in a feeding tube through her nose, so she's got that taped to the top of her head, and a cone around her neck. She seems a little more alert, but she didn't get up at all. She purred while I pet her, but it is so hard to see her like this. They found the presence of Hemobartonella, and she was looking pale, so they are giving her doxycycline now instead of batyril. She wasn't anemic on Tuesday, but she may be now. They also did an X-ray, and it looks like her liver is quite enlarged. The vet figures it probably is cancer. The only way to know for sure is the liver biopsy, but she is too weak for general anesthetic right now. The nearest place where she can receive cancer treatment is 6-7 hours away from here. I didn't ask yet how much this would cost. She would basically start the treatment there, then the vet here could probably do the chemo after all the diagnosis is done. I'm really now sure how feasible that would be for me. I've got other kitties to look after, and a job to go to...not to mention the cost for a treatment that may or may not help her. He suggested we wait and see how she is tomorrow after another day on the IV. What an ordeal..why is it we have to make such hard decisions when it comes to the lives of our little ones? I don't want to put her through a bunch of stress and pain just to have her die anyway, and wish I hadn't put her through so much. Yet I find it so hard to give up on her. Cassandra - Original Message - *From:* C J mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM *Subject:* Update on Kisa Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now
