Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[Daniel Wolf]

John Howell wrote:
The two that are omitted are French violin clef (used a lot for flute 
music, not violin music, in the Baroque), with G on the 1st line, and 
sub-bass (used in Venetian vocal music of Gabrielli's time) with F on 
the 5th line.

For purposes of transposition by clef, French violin clef is the same as 
bass clef, and sub-bass is the same as treble.

Daniel Wolf
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[Daniel Wolf]

David W. Fenton wrote:
That description with the flip "octave transpositions are ad lib." at 
the end seems to be rather clearly oriented towards score reading, 
not towards performance, where the octave is clearly *not* ad lib.

 


So, I think the whole octave thing is pretty important. When reading 
a score at the piano and playing a reduction of it (or, say, being a 
rehearsal accompanist for a choir singing from old clefs), octave can 
be somewhat ignored as long as harmonies are preserved, but that is 
not by any means the same thing as playing it as written.
 

You haven't been following the thread. The question was about 
transposition by clefs, and this necessarily means that you have to use 
some common sense and be flexible with the notated octave in order to 
get desired level of transposition. When I transpose up a major second 
by clef from bass clef to mezzo soprano clef, I have to make an 
additional octave transposition at sight.

Daniel Wolf
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Re: [Finale] File Overwrite Bug in Action

[laloba2]

(from Jari's reply to Christopher)
The questions was because it's the connection between the doc window 
and the enigma document database that malfunctions before the 
overwrite bug strikes. And I would assume that the first place to 
look would be at places that in some way access the table (or array 
or collection or whatever the tecnical term might be in this case) 
that handles the mapping.
When this happens would most probably be when document windows are 
opened/closed or when dowcument windows are switched.
Plug-ins have limited access to this info as well (in Fin2003 I was 
able to cause a similar problem myself by writing a buggy plug-in).
Hi Jari,
I have been doing some reading and what you are saying here jibes 
(there's that word again) with some of the things I have been 
reading...So for those of us on the list with insomnia, here they 
are...


This part interested me... "One particular problem often arises when 
there is more than one pointer to a specific block. If the first 
entity owns the memory and wants to free it, then it must first 
consider whether any other pointers point at that location. If any 
do, and the first entity frees the memory, those other pointers 
become dangling pointers-pointers that point to space that is no 
longer valid. When the dangling pointer is used, you may happen to 
get the correct data, but eventually the memory will be reused (via 
another call to malloc()) leading to unpleasant interactions between 
the dangling pointer and the new owner of that piece of memory. A 
dangling pointer is the opposite of a leak."

So, in a low memory situation, memory will be reused more quickly as 
the system grasps for whatever it can get a hold of.  Does this make 
sense?

This link is very interesting!! 



The above is an older article...so some of it is obsolete but many of 
the concepts still apply I believe.  See heap fragmentation, dangling 
pointers, invalid handles (I think handles are now called events in 
OS X...but not completely sure) and low memory conditions.

"
This is why OS X uses so much memory (from the above link):  " Also, 
Mac OS X tends to eat up all available memory, even if there is a lot 
of it available. This is because Mac OS X caches as much data as it 
can in memory, so that it can potentially reuse that data without 
having to re-cache it (the UNIX term for caching data in memory is 
"paging in" memory). Mac OS X's performance drops when all available 
memory is used, because it has to start removing things from memory 
("paging out"), which has a performance hit. This problem is much 
more prevalent in Mac OS X because applications are not limited to a 
specific amount of memory; they just take as much as they need, so 
free memory dwindles fast."

An "interesting" thing about the bug (based on the reports I've 
seen) here is that it always seems to point at another existing 
document database, never to a "wild" value.
This interests me too
Anyway, I think you can avoid to get files overwritten by pressing 
Command+Shift+D (unsure about the keystroke here for the Mac, it 
should be the keystroke for "redraw" with the "Shift" key added to 
it) before saving the file.
In Mac this is command-D :-)
That will refresh the window contents based on the current data 
connected to the window (it will not use any buffers like "redraw" 
does). That should at least make it possible to assure that it's the 
correct data that will be written to the file.
I haven't tried this when the bug bites but if it happens again I 
certainly will try it..  What I have been doing is NOT saving 
documents in order to not corrupt the backups.  Then I go to the 
backup folder and replace the files that have been overwritten with 
the intact backups.

The thing is...and maybe someone can either affirm or deny this for 
sure...on the Mac platform, the file is actually overwritten 
permanently rather than what happens in Windows if I am understanding 
correctly i.e. the information in the window being incorrect but not 
Command+Shift+D will restore it as you mentioned.

Thanks Jari...I'm curious to hear if any of this rings a bell for you..
-K
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Re: [Finale] File Overwrite Bug in Action

[laloba2]

On Jan 23, 2005, at 12:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That should help...also,
Do you mind telling me how much RAM you have in your computer?  You 
can do this off list if you prefer.  Thanks.  I'm trying to get a 
idea of what sorts of machines this is happening on...especially 
memory specs.
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking for, but my "Hardware Overview" 
under "System Profiler", says this:

  Machine Model:PowerBook G4 15"
  CPU Type: PowerPC G4  (1.1)
  Number Of CPUs:   1
  CPU Speed:1 GHz
  L2 Cache (per CPU):   512 KB
  Memory:   256 MB
  Bus Speed:167 MHz
  Boot ROM Version: 4.7.1f1
Does that answer your question?

Yes, thanks Mark. :-)  I think the symptoms you were mentioning in 
your previous posts were in fact because you have very little RAM in 
the machine...but I saw your reply post to Darcy and if you are doing 
fine with the system as it is...then all is well :-)

Thanks again,
-K
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[John Howell]

At 12:11 AM +0100 1/26/05, Daniel Wolf wrote:
You only need to memorize the following clef sequence:
1. treble
2. alto
3. bass
4. mezzo-soprano
5. baritone
6. soprano
7. tenor
The two that are omitted are French violin clef (used a lot for flute 
music, not violin music, in the Baroque), with G on the 1st line, and 
sub-bass (used in Venetian vocal music of Gabrielli's time) with F on 
the 5th line.

Each step up this sequence is equivalent to a transposition by one 
step on the staff, two steps up the sequence is equivalent to 
transposition by a diatonic third, three steps a fourth, four steps 
a fifth etc..  The sequence loops back to the beginning, so that 
treble clef is one step above tenor and so on. Whether the interval 
of transposition is major, minor, augmented, or diminished is 
determined by the key signature applied.  Octave transpositions are 
ad lib.
Exactly.  And transposing this way is a godsend for singers with 
perfect pitch, because they sing the notes transposed as actual 
pitches.

Example:  Given a piece in C in treble clef,  to transpose it to D, 
read as if in alto clef and add two sharps.
Another example: Given a piece in f# minor in alto clef, to 
transpose it to a minor, read as if in mezzo soprano clef with no 
accidentals in the key signature.
Another example: Given a piece in Ab in soprano clef, transpose to 
D.  Read as if in alto clef with a key signature of two sharps.
Exactly again.  The quick and dirty way is to keep track of which 
line or space the note C is on, and find the equivalent in a clef 
that works.

John
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Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
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(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Re: [Finale] File Overwrite Bug in Action

[laloba2]

On 24 Jan 2005 at 22:45, Darcy James Argue wrote:
 On 24 Jan 2005, at 7:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
 > Has Darcy reported low memory as a part of his problems?
 That's hard to say.  I had 768 MB of RAM in my old Mac, but I also
 routinely run Mail and Safari and iKey and DragThing and RealPlayer
 and iTunes along with Finale, and I often have 20+ windows open in
 Finale, and a whole bunch of tabs open in Safari.  So yes, I expect
 > memory was tight pretty much every time I encountered this bug.

Well, that's not really my definition of "tight" when you have 768MBs
of real RAM, unless most of the programs you're running are bad
memory hogs/leakers. I have routinely run a configuration on Windows
similar to that for years, even before I had 786MBs of RAM on my own
machine.
Actually, I think Darcy is right...Having all the applications open 
he mentioned and that many windows open would definitely cause memory 
to be "tight"...at least on a Macintosh.  I suggest to my clients 
that they have a minimum of 512MBs RAM on their OS X Machines.  Apple 
reAnd more if they are running several apps at a time and especially 
some of the more memory intensive apps I suggest starting with at 
least 1GB.  I have 2GB's in my G5 and that is the low side of what I 
should have considering some of the applications I run on that 
machine.

If you're running out of memory in those configurations, then one or
more of those programs is being very inefficient in its memory usage.
That's not necessarily true.  I would expect the kind of work load 
that Darcy is talking about to put that kind of stress on system 
resources on a Macintosh.

-K
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Jan 2005 at 0:11, Daniel Wolf wrote:

> You only need to memorize the following clef sequence:
> 
> 1. treble
> 2. alto
> 3. bass
> 4. mezzo-soprano
> 5. baritone
> 6. soprano
> 7. tenor
> 
> Each step up this sequence is equivalent to a transposition by one
> step on the staff, two steps up the sequence is equivalent to
> transposition by a diatonic third, three steps a fourth, four steps a
> fifth etc..  The sequence loops back to the beginning, so that treble
> clef is one step above tenor and so on. Whether the interval of
> transposition is major, minor, augmented, or diminished is determined
> by the key signature applied.  Octave transpositions are ad lib.

That description with the flip "octave transpositions are ad lib." at 
the end seems to be rather clearly oriented towards score reading, 
not towards performance, where the octave is clearly *not* ad lib.

I play viola da gamba, including treble viol, tenor viol and bass. I 
have sometimes on one concert played all three instruments, and on 
tenor I've had to read in as many as 3 different clefs in the same 
concert (in addition to playing continuo on the same concert). It's 
enough to make your head *really* hurt.

It's not that I have trouble reading the notes (though I frequently 
have trouble switching between treble clef at pitch or 8ba and alto 
clef) -- it's knowing which octave you're in that is the problem, and 
translating that to the physical movements to play the notes. I 
mostly play bass and switch quite fluently between alto and bass 
clef. But when given a part in treble (at pitch) or treble 8ba, it 
can give me fits (this happens a lot because lots of viol music has 
been published only in editions edited for recorders, with the tenor 
parts in any number of possible clefs).

What I *do* know is that the score reading I was trained to do did 
not by any means prepare me for reading in "inappropriate" clefs on 
an actual instrument.

This is not to say that I can't do it quite fluently, just that it's 
a pain and does lead to additional mistakes in early rehearsals.

Learning the viol did mean that I became as fluent in alto clef as I 
am in treble and bass (I was originally trained as a pianist). But it 
also means that *tenor* clef gives me the worst fits of any clef -- 
it's something that is just not used in viol music, ever, and there's 
no physical connection between the notation and the instrument for 
me. Indeed, I read tenor clef less well now than I did before I took 
up the gamba!

So, I think the whole octave thing is pretty important. When reading 
a score at the piano and playing a reduction of it (or, say, being a 
rehearsal accompanist for a choir singing from old clefs), octave can 
be somewhat ignored as long as harmonies are preserved, but that is 
not by any means the same thing as playing it as written.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] File Overwrite Bug in Action

[David W. Fenton]

On 24 Jan 2005 at 22:45, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> On 24 Jan 2005, at 7:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
> > Has Darcy reported low memory as a part of his problems?
> 
> That's hard to say.  I had 768 MB of RAM in my old Mac, but I also
> routinely run Mail and Safari and iKey and DragThing and RealPlayer
> and iTunes along with Finale, and I often have 20+ windows open in
> Finale, and a whole bunch of tabs open in Safari.  So yes, I expect
> memory was tight pretty much every time I encountered this bug.

Well, that's not really my definition of "tight" when you have 768MBs 
of real RAM, unless most of the programs you're running are bad 
memory hogs/leakers. I have routinely run a configuration on Windows 
similar to that for years, even before I had 786MBs of RAM on my own 
machine.

If you're running out of memory in those configurations, then one or 
more of those programs is being very inefficient in its memory usage.

And even if Finale is the offender here, that still doesn't tie in 
low memory as the cause of the file overwrite bug.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[Daniel Wolf]

dhbailey wrote:
Does anybody have a handy link to a list of the various transpositions 
relative to the various clefs?  I know there is a horn method by 
Lorenzo Sansone which lists the transpositions utilizing clefs, but I 
don't have a copy of that book.

You only need to memorize the following clef sequence:
1. treble
2. alto
3. bass
4. mezzo-soprano
5. baritone
6. soprano
7. tenor
Each step up this sequence is equivalent to a transposition by one step 
on the staff, two steps up the sequence is equivalent to transposition 
by a diatonic third, three steps a fourth, four steps a fifth etc..  The 
sequence loops back to the beginning, so that treble clef is one step 
above tenor and so on. Whether the interval of transposition is major, 
minor, augmented, or diminished is determined by the key signature 
applied.  Octave transpositions are ad lib.

Example:  Given a piece in C in treble clef,  to transpose it to D, read 
as if in alto clef and add two sharps.
Another example: Given a piece in f# minor in alto clef, to transpose it 
to a minor, read as if in mezzo soprano clef with no accidentals in the 
key signature.
Another example: Given a piece in Ab in soprano clef, transpose to D.  
Read as if in alto clef with a key signature of two sharps.

Daniel Wolf


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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[dhbailey]

Daniel Wolf wrote:
John Howell wrote:
At 10:20 PM -0800 1/24/05, Chuck Israels wrote:
Of course, if you followed that logic all the way through, you'd 
write the trombones in the tenor clef a lot of the time, and I don't 
do that.  And I still have to decipher the alto clef for the viola 
parts (shame on me for not getting used to that by now).  If I wrote 
more string music, I'd probably get to the point where that was as 
transparent to me as the saxophone transpositions are.

You would, I guarantee it.  And not only for writing, but for 
playing.  Early music often comes in a variety of clefs, and it's a 
little scary to start playing a part on, say, tenor recorder, in alto 
clef, and by the end of the piece be reading automatically!

John

And don't forget the extra benefit of gaining fluency in all the clefs 
-- transposition at sight becomes a breeze. IMO, this should still be a 
part of every musician's training.

Does anybody have a handy link to a list of the various transpositions 
relative to the various clefs?  I know there is a horn method by Lorenzo 
Sansone which lists the transpositions utilizing clefs, but I don't have 
a copy of that book.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Cool ... I have never noticed.
Dean
On Jan 25, 2005, at 10:05 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jan 25, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
Perhaps it would not be beyond the pale (sp?) to give credit on a 
score to the engraver, as well as composer, arr., etc. After all, it 
is artistry, no?

There is actually a long historical tradition of doing just that. In a 
great many pre-computer editions, you will see an engraver credit at 
the bottom right corner of the last page of music, in the form "Joe 
Blow, eng." There's no reason this practice shouldn't be continued.

To the best of my knowledge, such credits are put in by engravers on 
their own initiative, simply as a way of signing  their work.

Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
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I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer
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Re: [Finale] File Overwrite Bug in Action

[Mark D Lew]

On Jan 24, 2005, at 10:50 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
I would suggest adding (at least) another 256 MB of RAM to your 
PowerBook.  You will notice a considerable difference.
Enh, you know me.  I have simple needs, and I'm not the sort of person 
who craves speed.  I don't perceive any problem with the computer as 
is.  It works OK, and I don't mind having to reboot once or twice a 
week.  On the rare occasion that something seems a little slow, I'm 
happy to have a spare moment to relax and reflect.

What little drive I have for souping up my computer will be devoted to 
more rudimentary needs.  (I still haven't gotten that CD drive 
fixed)

mdl
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Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?

[Mark D Lew]

On Jan 25, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Michael L. Meyer wrote:
Not that I ever got into the music OR education business for the
glory, but it sure would be nice if engraving credit were given with
regularity/consistency.  I lucked out that the few professional
engraving jobs I've worked happened to have a wide distribution -- if
my name were in the credits I'm sure it could have helped my business,
instead of my having gone back to a day job ... ah, well.  I do like
my day job.
The flip side would be that if the hacks who produce some of the 
atrocious pop music scores I see had to put their names on it, they 
might be shamed into doing a better job.

On the other hand, I don't know if that's really fair, since I'm sure 
to some extent it's the publisher's decision not to pay for quality 
work.  Still, engravers with professional pride would refuse to let 
their name go on such shoddy product, in which case maybe it becomes a 
sign of quality for a publisher to be able to hire engravers who are 
willing to sign their work.

mdl
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Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?

[Jari Williamsson]

Michael L. Meyer wrote:
After reading this, Andrew, I checked the back page and found
"Processed and printed by Halstan & Co. Ltd., Amersham, Bucks.,
England."  
SCORE?
When was it published?
Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[John Howell]

At 8:58 PM +0100 1/25/05, Daniel Wolf wrote:
John Howell wrote:
At 10:20 PM -0800 1/24/05, Chuck Israels wrote:
Of course, if you followed that logic all the way through, you'd 
write the trombones in the tenor clef a lot of the time, and I 
don't do that.  And I still have to decipher the alto clef for the 
viola parts (shame on me for not getting used to that by now).  If 
I wrote more string music, I'd probably get to the point where 
that was as transparent to me as the saxophone transpositions are.

You would, I guarantee it.  And not only for writing, but for 
playing.  Early music often comes in a variety of clefs, and it's a 
little scary to start playing a part on, say, tenor recorder, in 
alto clef, and by the end of the piece be reading automatically!

John
And don't forget the extra benefit of gaining fluency in all the 
clefs -- transposition at sight becomes a breeze. IMO, this should 
still be a part of every musician's training.
Yes, and Boulenger was still teaching them, according to one of her 
students.  And don't forget, we're not talking just about orchestral 
clefs, but the full system of 9 movable clefs:  G clef on the 1st or 
2nd line; C clef on the first, second, third, or 4th line; F clefs on 
the 3rd, 4th or 5th line.  You need to know the whole system to use 
it for instant transposition.  I write for horn seldom enough that it 
really helps to think of it as being in mezzo-soprano clef, concert C 
on the second line.

John
--
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Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?

[Michael L. Meyer]

On 1/25/05 1:05 PM, "Andrew Stiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Jan 25, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps it would not be beyond the pale (sp?) to give credit on a
>> score to the engraver, as well as composer, arr., etc. After all, it
>> is artistry, no?
>> 
> 
> There is actually a long historical tradition of doing just that. In a
> great many pre-computer editions, you will see an engraver credit at
> the bottom right corner of the last page of music, in the form "Joe
> Blow, eng." There's no reason this practice shouldn't be continued.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, such credits are put in by engravers on
> their own initiative, simply as a way of signing  their work.
> 

After reading this, Andrew, I checked the back page and found
"Processed and printed by Halstan & Co. Ltd., Amersham, Bucks.,
England."  Maybe it's not computer-engraved?  Because it certainly
seems so ... all I know is it impressed this mostly-lurker enough to
post ...

Not that I ever got into the music OR education business for the
glory, but it sure would be nice if engraving credit were given with
regularity/consistency.  I lucked out that the few professional
engraving jobs I've worked happened to have a wide distribution -- if
my name were in the credits I'm sure it could have helped my business,
instead of my having gone back to a day job ... ah, well.  I do like
my day job.

-- Mike





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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[Daniel Wolf]

John Howell wrote:
At 10:20 PM -0800 1/24/05, Chuck Israels wrote:
Of course, if you followed that logic all the way through, you'd 
write the trombones in the tenor clef a lot of the time, and I don't 
do that.  And I still have to decipher the alto clef for the viola 
parts (shame on me for not getting used to that by now).  If I wrote 
more string music, I'd probably get to the point where that was as 
transparent to me as the saxophone transpositions are.

You would, I guarantee it.  And not only for writing, but for 
playing.  Early music often comes in a variety of clefs, and it's a 
little scary to start playing a part on, say, tenor recorder, in alto 
clef, and by the end of the piece be reading automatically!

John

And don't forget the extra benefit of gaining fluency in all the clefs 
-- transposition at sight becomes a breeze. IMO, this should still be a 
part of every musician's training.

Daniel Wolf
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[John Howell]

At 10:20 PM -0800 1/24/05, Chuck Israels wrote:
Of course, if you followed that logic all the way through, you'd 
write the trombones in the tenor clef a lot of the time, and I don't 
do that.  And I still have to decipher the alto clef for the viola 
parts (shame on me for not getting used to that by now).  If I wrote 
more string music, I'd probably get to the point where that was as 
transparent to me as the saxophone transpositions are.
You would, I guarantee it.  And not only for writing, but for 
playing.  Early music often comes in a variety of clefs, and it's a 
little scary to start playing a part on, say, tenor recorder, in alto 
clef, and by the end of the piece be reading automatically!

John
--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
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Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?

[Andrew Stiller]

On Jan 25, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
Perhaps it would not be beyond the pale (sp?) to give credit on a 
score to the engraver, as well as composer, arr., etc. After all, it 
is artistry, no?

There is actually a long historical tradition of doing just that. In a 
great many pre-computer editions, you will see an engraver credit at 
the bottom right corner of the last page of music, in the form "Joe 
Blow, eng." There's no reason this practice shouldn't be continued.

To the best of my knowledge, such credits are put in by engravers on 
their own initiative, simply as a way of signing  their work.

Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
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Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Perhaps it would not be beyond the pale (sp?) to give credit on a score 
to the engraver, as well as composer, arr., etc. After all, it is 
artistry, no?

Dean
On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:12 AM, Michael L. Meyer wrote:
Hey y’all --
 Sorry for the OT post, but I figured it was a happy one so no one 
would mind.  I was at rehearsal last night, and got curious.  Did 
anybody on this list engrave the Vaughan Williams’ Dona Nobis Pacem 
choral score for Oxford University Press?  I’m only curious because I 
wanted to say thanks and congrats ... it is one of the best-looking, 
easiest-to-read, neatest choral scores I’ve ever seen.  Which is 
especially lovely to see considering the difficulty of the actual 
music.

 Unless it was a Sibelius person ... I don’t subscribe to that list.
 -- Mike  ___
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I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer
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Re: [Finale] File Overwrite Bug in Action

[Jari Williamsson]

Christopher Smith wrote:
On Jan 23, 2005, at 4:54 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Here are some more thoughts:
* Have you closed any documents prior to when the bug occurs?
Always.
* Have you had multiple windows for the same document opened?
Not me, in this case.
* Has any plug-ins been run that support multiple docs (Settings 
Scrapbook, FinaleScript, Text Search & Replace, etc)?

Again, not with me.
I'm not sure why those questions are important, though.
The questions was because it's the connection between the doc window and 
the enigma document database that malfunctions before the overwrite bug 
strikes. And I would assume that the first place to look would be at 
places that in some way access the table (or array or collection or 
whatever the tecnical term might be in this case) that handles the mapping.
When this happens would most probably be when document windows are 
opened/closed or when dowcument windows are switched.
Plug-ins have limited access to this info as well (in Fin2003 I was able 
to cause a similar problem myself by writing a buggy plug-in).

An "interesting" thing about the bug (based on the reports I've seen) 
here is that it always seems to point at another existing document 
database, never to a "wild" value.

Anyway, I think you can avoid to get files overwritten by pressing 
Command+Shift+D (unsure about the keystroke here for the Mac, it should 
be the keystroke for "redraw" with the "Shift" key added to it) before 
saving the file. That will refresh the window contents based on the 
current data connected to the window (it will not use any buffers like 
"redraw" does). That should at least make it possible to assure that 
it's the correct data that will be written to the file.

Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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[Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?

[Michael L. Meyer]

Title: [OT] Curious ... who did it?



Hey y’all --

Sorry for the OT post, but I figured it was a happy one so no one would mind.  I was at rehearsal last night, and got curious.  Did anybody on this list engrave the Vaughan Williams’ Dona Nobis Pacem choral score for Oxford University Press?  I’m only curious because I wanted to say thanks and congrats ... it is one of the best-looking, easiest-to-read, neatest choral scores I’ve ever seen.  Which is especially lovely to see considering the difficulty of the actual music.

Unless it was a Sibelius person ... I don’t subscribe to that list.

-- Mike



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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[dhbailey]

Don Hart wrote:
Thanks, Chuck, but neither octave up or octave down (+7 or -7) is doing
anything to affect playback right now.  Maybe it's my file.  I'll experiment
and let you know if I can fix it.
Make certain the Transposition checkbox is checked (it should be once 
you define the transposition).

You want to define the transposition to be UP an octave, turn OFF 
display in concert pitch (so you can see the transposed notation) and 
the notes should appear as you want them to.  If they don't, use Mass 
Mover tool to transpose the part down to where you want the notes to 
APPEAR.  The transposition tells Finale that they are appearing one 
octave UP from what they should sound, and you should end up with the 
proper transposition.

But you will need to view the transposed score to ensure the notes are 
appearing where you want them to.  If you're using a concert-pitch 
score, it's fine to turn off view in concert pitch, since everything 
will be as it should be.  If you need to view it in concert pitch 
because you have transpositions set for the transposing instruments, 
you'll need to enter the bass part an octave lower than you want to (at 
actual sounding pitch).  Or you can turn OFF view at concert pitch while 
you enter the bass part, and then turn it back on for all the other parts.

Good luck!
--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[dhbailey]

Don Hart wrote:
on 1/24/05 2:45 PM, A-NO-NE Music at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Don Hart / 05.1.24 / 03:31 PM wrote:

But when I score the pitches as they will be written in the part, the notes
I hear back are an octave too high.

It's a transposed instrument.  Have you set it that way?

I realize it's transposed, but no, I haven't set it up that way.  I've been
writing octave displaced parts (like piccolo and contrabass) in the staff,
where the player will read the notes in their part.
It's not the factor it used to be in Finale, but in writing concert scores I
never saw the sense in adding more transposed parts than I had to.  It just
meant more dynamics and articulations needing to be moved, or futzing with
8va/8vb and notes out of the range of my keyboard, or all the above.  Up
until my Proteus 2 died not too long ago (which brought about this need for
Finale's sounds), it played the correct octave when I notated these parts in
the staff and saved me some mouse work.
It's not really that big a deal to use a transposition, I suppose, but I
guess I just naturally thought of displacing the sound first.
So, is there any way to change the octave of Finale's contrabass sound?
You would need to transpose the entire bass patch of the soundfont, 
which may or may not be an easy task, depending on if you have the 
Vienna Soundfont editor and feel comfortable doing that.

But the main issue remains that Finale is sending the appropriate note 
number as you notate it (one octave higher than you want the sound) and 
that's how it should be. It is only a few mouse clicks to transpose the 
staff so you get the sound you want, which would be a lot easier than 
editing the soundfont.

Editing the soundfont would require you then to edit every soundfont you 
might substitute, as well as editing the soundset of everybody's 
computer's soundcard, should you send them a copy of the Finale file and 
they try to play it, all of which is beyond your control.

Far easier to set the octave transpositions properly in the file, and 
then you can depend on whomever listens to the file on another machine 
actually hearing the correct sounds.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[Darcy James Argue]

On 25 Jan 2005, at 3:32 AM, Don Hart wrote:
We're shooting for the same thing in the bass part, but the rub comes 
when I
view the score in concert pitch.  That (as far as I know) is a command 
that
affects an entire file.  So if I want to see my transposed Bflat 
clarinet in
concert (down one step from where written in the part), I also have to 
view
my transposed contrabass in concert (down one *octave* from where 
written in
the part)
Just use the "set to clef" option to select the 8vb bass clef in the 
concert score, and the regular bass clef in the transposed score.  The 
notes will appear on the same staff lines when you switch from concert 
to transposed -- only the clef will change.

Also, it's good practice to use 8va treble clefs and 8vb bass clefs for 
octave-transposing instruments in a concert score.  This removes any 
ambiguity about whether these instruments are written at the sounding 
pitch or the transposed pitch.  Since many composers who use concert 
scores write, for example, contrabass parts at the *sounding* pitch 
(i.e., with a ton of ledger lines below the staff, when you don't do 
this, the intended octave is often ambiguous.  Using 8va treble clefs 
for picc., etc., and 8vb bass clefs for contrabass, etc, makes it clear 
what octave is intended.

and worse yet with my current midi keyboard, finagle a way to
enter it down there.
Almost every MIDI keyboard has a button to shift octaves.  If yours 
doesn't, well, there are lots of inexpensive ones that do.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
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Re: [Finale] Contrabass playback

[Don Hart]

on 1/25/05 12:20 AM, Chuck Israels at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I don't think I understand what the problem is with writing your bass parts.
> If the correct transposition is set up in your template, then you simply write
> the part just as you would normally write it - as if you were doing it by
> hand.  You write middle C, one ledger line above the bass clef staff, and that
> sounds one octave below that - absolutely normal for bass parts.  Even
> "Concert" scores have certain octave transpositions built in (bass, guitar,
> piccolo, orchestra bells, xylophone).  Without those, there'd be no room
> between staves for all the ledger lines that would be necessary.  Am I missing
> something in what you are saying?

We're shooting for the same thing in the bass part, but the rub comes when I
view the score in concert pitch.  That (as far as I know) is a command that
affects an entire file.  So if I want to see my transposed Bflat clarinet in
concert (down one step from where written in the part), I also have to view
my transposed contrabass in concert (down one *octave* from where written in
the part) and worse yet with my current midi keyboard, finagle a way to
enter it down there.  Setting up a macro to toggle between concert score and
transposed score will help some, but I'm between macro programs right now,
having moved to OSX somewhat recently.  (The recent discussions about iKey
and Quickeys haven't exactly sold me on either program yet.)
 
> I do work directly in Finale.  [snip]
> I write transposed scores.  I got used to them when I first started
> arranging/composing, and my NY copyists recommended it.  There are some
> advantages, if you can adapt to them.  Most instruments "look" as they sound -
> in their ranges, relative to the position in the staff, so that's a plus, and
> you don't run into so many ledger line problems.  Of course, if you followed
> that logic all the way through, you'd write the trombones in the tenor clef a
> lot of the time, and I don't do that.  And I still have to decipher the alto
> clef for the viola parts (shame on me for not getting used to that by now).
> If I wrote more string music, I'd probably get to the point where that was as
> transparent to me as the saxophone transpositions are.

I am pretty fluent with transposed scores.  I started out writing that way
and also have my nose in study scores on a regular basis.  If I could find a
way to, *while entering* transposed notes on my midi keyboard, hear the
concert pitches as they went in the score, I'd switch to writing transposed
scores right now.  That way I could still check my scores by ear on two
different levels: individual parts as entered, and a playback of the full
score.

BTW, as a former trombonist I'd say don't sweat the ledger lines.  Most
players I knew handled them easily once used to them, and some preferred
them.  Also, they were sort of a badge of honor when we played stuff that
looked so high. :-)

> Please do send me Chris' drum mapping post.  I remember seeing it when he
> wrote it, but it seemed daunting at the time.  I may be ready to tackle it now
> - get it set up on my templates, so that I can use it when I get the jazz
> version of GPO. 

I'm forwarding Chris' post privately.  Thanks for your patient replies to my
bullheadedness.

Don Hart

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