Re: [Finale] turn quarters into 16ths

[Johannes Gebauer]

Mark D Lew schrieb:
I do those as an articulation.  Mass Mover's Apply Articulation function 
gives enough flexibility to do it fairly efficiently en masse.


Of course as articulation. With a metatool you can apply it to a whole 
screenful at once.


Johannes
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Re: [Finale] midi chanels assignment

[Johannes Gebauer]

Neal Schermerhorn schrieb:


Maybe one of the many so preoddupied with the non-Finale threads would care
to coment?


Is this your first post to the list? I can't remember your name somehow. 
You must be one of the owners then? Or what other rights do you have to 
complain?


Johannes
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Re: [Finale] midi chanels assignment

[Darcy James Argue]

On 13 Jul 2005, at 12:37 AM, Neal Schermerhorn wrote:

My answer: I don't know of more than 32 MIDI channels available on 
Finale,
others may know more. But 10 and 26 are drums, so 30 pitched channels 
are

available. So 39 channels may be a pipe dream.

Maybe one of the many so preoddupied with the non-Finale threads would 
care

to coment?


Finale 2004 and 2005, at least, support 64 MIDI channels (and I believe 
earlier versions do as well), so that's not the problem.  But I beyond 
that, I'm afraid I can't answer Eric's question about MIDI staff order 
getting switched around.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[Jari Williamsson]

Richard Smith wrote:

These explanations are very wordy but if you play with it, I think you 
will find Sibelius easy to use without a midi. I work quickly on both my 
desktop and my laptop without midi. Just give yourself a little time to 
get adjusted to Sibelius before making a judgment. Finale methods won't 
work so you have to build new habits.


What you just described is extremely similar to the Simple Entry 
keyboard method.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[Tyler Turner]

--- Richard Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mark D. Lew asked:
> 
> > Does Sibelius have a good method of entry with the
> Qwerty keyboard?  If 
> > not, that would be a big negative for me.
> 
> Sibelius has always had an elegant set of  keyboard
> entry tools They appear 
> to have been the model for the ones introduced in
> Finale 2004.  After an 
> initial adjustment, I think you'll find them more
> versatile and more 
> flexible than Finale's.

Finale 2004 and 2005's Simple Entry were designed to
outperform Sibelius' similar entry system in many
ways. Sibelius still has some advantages, but it's not
a simple matter of stating that Sibelius' entry is
more flexible than Finale's. In many respects the
opposite is true.


> Highlight a measure or a beat by a mouse click (no
> speedy entry window is 
> needed), select a rhythm (it will stay elected until
> another selection is 
> made) type a pitch from the keyboard (or touch a
> midi key), and the note is 
> entered. You can navigate between notes with the
> left and right arrows.

Comparing Finale and Sibelius, choosing a duration in
Sibelius always prepares the next note's duration
whenever the entry caret is present (and this is
always present when you're entering new notes). Finale
does this as well, but offers the option of holding
the Alt key while pressing the duration to change the
last entered note's duration without first backing up
to it. Essentially, this makes it quicker in Finale to
correct mistakes, since you don't backtrack.

 
> While a note is highlighted, it can be moved up or
> down with the arrow keys, 
> displaced an octave (ctrl arrow up or down),
> re-pitched by re-entering the 
> keyboard pitch, added to with the top row number
> keys (3 adds a third up, 
> shift 3 a third down, 4 a fourth up, ect), and
> repeated by pressing R.

Finale has the same options except for the very handy
Repeat command. That's one that Finale should add in
the future. In Finale's favor is the ability to either
select the octave for the last entered pitch (as
Sibelius does) or select the octave for the coming
pitch. It is the same number of keystrokes either way,
but for myself and other people, it just feels better
to not have to enter the note in the wrong octave
first and then correct it.

This brings me to another point. When designing
Finale's entry system, MakeMusic considered the way
people enter certain notational elements by hand. Most
people write a notehead on the page before writing
other elements, such as articulations, augmentation
dots, and even accidentals. Sibelius asks that you
define these properties of a note before you enter the
note itself. I've talked to seasoned Sibelius veterans
who say this still causes them to make mistakes from
time to time. Finale on the other hand gives you the
option, but defaults the simplest keystrokes for these
elements to adding the elements after the basic note
has been entered. This requires the user to remember
fewer things and make fewer simultaneous decisions. It
may seem subtle, but it really does help people make
fewer mistakes. Try it - I think you'll curse less in
Finale's entry.

There's another major advantage to Finale that lies in
this ability to select elements before or after
entering a note. It's what is referred to as "Sticky"
in Finale. In Finale you can add elements to the last
entered note only, or you can lock on these elements
(such as tuplets, grace notes, augmentation dots,
articulations, and even accidentals) so that they are
attached to all notes you enter from that point until
you disable the element(s). Sibelius is one way or the
other. For example, you can not turn on a consecutive
tuplet feature in Sibelius. And articulations are
always sticky, meaning you will need to turn off the
articulation when you don't need it (not tough to do,
but an extra step). 
 
> Back space creates a rest from a note.
> Articulations, bowings, accidentals, 
> grace notes, tremolos, ect. can all be added to a
> highlighted note(s) with a 
> single touch to the ten key pad.

The best way to create a rest in Sibelius is usually
to hit the 0 key on the numpad. This enters a rest of
the current duration, and is one step instead of the
two that hitting backspace requires. I kind of get a
kick out of this shortcut, since it's new and was just
copied from Finale. Before this, the Space Bar did
this in Sibelius - not very handy for people using a
MIDI keyboard.

Sibelius prides itself on a feel of modelessness (even
though it's not modeless). The articulations in entry
are a good example of where this fails. If you need an
accent or a staccato, great - it's on the first
keypad. But if it's a fermata, you're going to go
hunting for it on a different keypad. Sibelius just
runs out of convenient shortcuts.

Finale doesn't fight its modal nature. You press the
asterisk key on the keypad after entering a note, then
press the metatool letter for the articulation. 2 keys
for any articulation. 2 keys for

RE: [Finale] Beams over rests

[Lee Actor]

> On Jul 12, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Lee Actor wrote:
>
> > I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure
> > without setting it that way for the entire file.  Does anyone have a
> > simple/clever workaround for this?  (And wouldn't it be nice if this
> > option
> > could be turned on and off for selected measures within a piece?)
>
> Don't know how clever it is, but here's one way that will work:
>
> Copy the measure into another layer.  Adjust stems, etc., so that the
> two layers are identical.  Then in one of the layers apply the tuplet
> tool to the first 16th to define it as one 16th displaying in the space
> of two 16ths (with no number or bracket). Then in that same layer
> delete the rest.
>
> That should be good to go.  If the original 16ths are still showing
> through funny, make them invisible.  If you're worried about playback,
> make sure that the kludged layer is set to no-play, and the regular
> layer is set to play even when invisible.
>
> mdl

I don't think that works in the case of four 16ths where the first and last
are rests.  Or maybe I don't understand your method?

-Lee


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Re: [Finale] Accidental Bug

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 07:20 PM 7/12/05 -0700, Mark D Lew wrote:
>On Jul 10, 2005, at 7:17 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
>> And another one -- the bass-clef first-note speedy-entry bug. Type 
>> along
>> from the computer keyboard and at random the first note of some 
>> measures
>> will be way up high, as if it were displaying a treble clef. The bug's
>> still there in 2005b.
>
>This is correlated to what keystroke in Speedy you use to enter the new 
>frame.  Some of them don't "remember" the clef properly.  The problem 
>is cleared as soon as you use one of the keystrokes that rechecks.

I use the forward arrow as I'm touch-typing, right hand on the
numeric/arrow/control blocks and left hand on the right side of the
standard keyboard (starting at the 9-O-L column). I usually exit the frame
to clear this bug. What keystroke rechecks?

>Pretty sad that the bug 
>was never fixed.  I sometimes get the impression that speedy Qwerty 
>entry doesn't get much attention.

Man, speedy is so fast for me, especially when composing. My autorepeat is
set to the fastest Windows allows (never fast enough for my taste), so I
know exactly how long to hold the up/down arrows to move the cursor
multiple positions.

>(Far more annoying is the fact that 
>the "enter" key does not act on the previous entry when the cursor is 
>at the end of a frame, as just about every other Speedy key does.  That 
>would save a ton of effort in entering piano parts that have lots of 
>chords.)

Yes, I noticed that, but I tend to enter the additional notes after the
basic notes/rhythms of the measure are already filled in. Maybe I got into
that habit because of the behavior you mention ... it's been a long time,
and speedy was my default entry method when I started with Finale in
version 2.2 (I've never used simple or a Midi keyboard).

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] Finale SongWriter??

[Rocky Road]

http://www.makemusic.com/press_releases.aspx?pid=53

Does MakeMusic! really need *another* intermediate-level notation product?


I just wish they'd update Printmusic from 2004 so I can replace 
NotepadFree with something cheap that recognizes a USB MIDI keyboard.


--

Rocky Road - in Oz

"Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, 
leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining 
planet known as Earth."

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Re: [Finale] A Brief Commentary

[Rocky Road]

I've been away for a few days, receiving e-mails but not really 
reading any.  Today I looked to see 457 messages in my "Finale List" 
folder.  243 of them are about Sibelius.  It's no skin off my nose, 
since I'll delete 'em without further ado, but if "finale@shsu.edu" 
is going to be spending so much time on Sibelius, maybe it ought to 
be the composer we're talking about!


ng


Every time a new Finale or a new Sibelius is announced this happens, 
then it dies down. It will pass.


Same thing happens on the Logic mailing list. You should have seen 
when Apple bought logic and announced they were dropping the Windows 
version!


--

Rocky Road - in Oz

"Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, 
leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining 
planet known as Earth."

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Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!

[Rocky Road]

I believe, as has been pointed out before, that to Mailman the 
words "private list" mean something different from how you mean it. 
As the list page says, "This is a private list, which means that 
the list of members is not available to non-members." That's *all* 
it means to Mailman. It does not mean that you have any greater 
than usual expectation of privacy in your postings.


Running a Mailman mailing list myself, I know that it is possible to 
make email addresses unaivailable to anyone, including subscribers.


Yay - that might finally fix the "Reply to list" behaviour! (runs and 
ducks for cover).


--

Rocky Road - in Oz

"Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, 
leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining 
planet known as Earth."

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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[dhbailey]

Mark D Lew wrote:



On Jul 12, 2005, at 9:18 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

These explanations are very wordy but if you play with it, I think you 
will find Sibelius easy to use without a midi.



And without a mouse, too, I hope.

I work quickly on both my desktop and my laptop without midi. Just 
give yourself a little time to get adjusted to Sibelius before making 
a judgment. Finale methods won't work so you have to build new habits.



Not making a judgment at all.  But I'm content where I am right now and 
am not looking to pay money for an upgrade OR a cross-grade.




I don't think Finale is easy to use without a mouse, so I'm not sure 
where your comment about hoping Sibelius being easy to use without a 
mouse comes from.


Any windows/mac program will involve mousing.  Perhaps you are asking 
about the relative amount of mousing that's required.


I think that speedy entry in Finale, where you can work along without a 
mouse once you have clicked to enter the editing frame, and you use only 
the computer keyboard without the numeric keypad, isn't quite possible 
in Sibelius.  I do know that in Sibelius you can access any of the items 
on the visible panel of the toolbar which resembles the numeric keypad 
simply by pressing the appropriate key on the numeric keypad.  But this 
becomes a bit harder with a notebook, where you have to use the FN key 
to access the numeric keypad.  I don't think it's insurmountable but 
will take some experimentation to find yourself a manageable workflow.


For some, playing with the Sibelius demo to the point where actual 
workflow is accomplished and begins to feel comfortable may be too much 
effort to put into a program they aren't likely to purchase.  Just as 
Sibelius users who may be interested in Finale will find the same level 
of learning required to get comfortable enough to get a realistic feel 
for the program to be more than they want.


Just remember that you won't have a fair opinion of Sibelius, just as 
Sibelius users trying Finale won't have a fair opinion of Finale, and 
try to keep an open mind based on the many users each program has and 
the output from each program, much of which is ending up in professional 
publications.


I know I have been guilty of expressing such poor opinions of Sibelius 
(which were undeserved at the time I expressed them, and are becoming 
ever less deserved as the program improves significantly with each 
release) and I also realize many Sibelius users have been equally guilty 
of expressing poor opinions of Finale which were (and remain) undeserved.


They are two different programs which require different approaches to 
getting the notation into the computer and onto paper.  The best 
comparison between the data-entry processes between the two programs is 
that they're kinda similar but different.  Different enough to require 
relearning.




--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!

[Phil Daley]

At 7/12/2005 03:49 PM, Simon Troup wrote:

>> Apologies for my earlier message, I misunderstood what this was
>> showing
>
>No problem.
>
>> Still, I maintain that if you don't want your email address to be
>> widely-publicised, using a mailing list to which anyone can subscribe
>> is a silly thing to do
>
>Why does it have to be that way? Can't I join a professional list? (If I can
>call it that, I do this for a living!).

You need to join a "moderated" list then. The moderator can then control 
who is allowed to join and read the list.


That is not what this is.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] midi chanels assignment

[dhbailey]

Neal Schermerhorn wrote:


Hey, I know the FINALE list is all so busy discussing everything but FINALE,
but his guy had a question.



I am pretty bad in understanding how midi works, having been always
interested in music typesetting, but I have a problem here and I
don't know what to do.

The composer wants me to export de music so that every instruments
will appear in midi in the same order as the score (39 different
instruments) so that he can assign himself the proper instruments.
I've tried to assign a different chanel to every instrument (39
chanels) and when I open the midi file in Finale, to order in f*cked
up, and so are the chanel number assignements. I don't care about
what instrument goes with what chanel, but want one chanel per
instruement in the same order as the score.

Thanks for your help,

Éric Dussault



My answer: I don't know of more than 32 MIDI channels available on Finale,
others may know more. But 10 and 26 are drums, so 30 pitched channels are
available. So 39 channels may be a pipe dream.

Maybe one of the many so preoddupied with the non-Finale threads would care
to coment?



On Windows there are up to 64 channels available (I think the same is 
true of Macs).  You need to have 4 different midi output ports defined 
on your computer (with devices attached, if you want to hear the sounds) 
in order to be able to define instruments for 64 channels of playback. 
39 instruments would require 3 separate midi output ports and devices.


The problem is simply that Eric needs to define 39 DIFFERENT instruments 
(if he wants 39 separate instruments) on 39 different channels, 
remembering that 10, 26, 42, 58 are drum channels.


Eric will need to define Flute 1 as channel 1, flute 2 as channel 2, 
oboe 1 as channel 3, oboe 2 as channel 4, clarinet 1 as channel 5, 
clarinet 2 as channel 6, etc.


If the file is then opened on a computer which has only 1 midi output 
port defined, then the channel assignment will be totally screwed up.


And I don't recall any threads not related to Finale or to the operation 
of this list, both of which are germane to the purpose of this list. 
Those who ignore the competition often find themselves left in the dust. 
 Discussion of how things are done in Sibelius, compared to how they 
are done in Finale, are very germane to this list.


By studying the competition, Sibelius has managed to leapfrog over 
Finale in some features.  If we see things we like in Sibelius, we can 
request similar features from Finale.  How is that a non-Finale thread?







--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?

[Phil Daley]

At 7/12/2005 03:49 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:

>Consider the difference between posting to any unmoderated Usenet
>group and posting to the Finale list.
>
>It's a *huge* difference.

I guess you need to explain why there is ANY difference, other than having 
to subscribe ahead of time.


Since ANYONE can subscribe, how is it any different?

>I note that there don't seem to be any explicit Finale list terms of
>service accessible from
>http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale. It was so long ago
>that I subscribed that I don't believe I have the terms of service
>you get when you subscribe. I think it would be helpful to have those
>accessible from the listinfo page (based on my past experiencing
>administering a mailman mailing list, I know that part of the content
>of that page is configurable by the list administrator).

Here you go:

>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:06:43 EST
>From: MX mailing list processor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>   PLEASE READ THIS MESSAGE AND RETAIN IT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE
>
>
>You have been added to mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>Further administrative requests regarding this list should be sent to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>The following commands can be handled automatically by the list processor:
> SIGNOFF Finale - to remove yourself from the list
> REVIEW Finale  - to get a list of subscribers
> QUERY Finale   - to get the status of your entry on the list
> SET Finale MAIL- to resume receiving mail from the list
> SET Finale NOMAIL  - to remain on the list but not receive mail
> SET Finale CONCEAL - to not report your address in a REVIEW
> SET Finale NOCONCEAL   - to report your address in a REVIEW
> SET Finale REPRO   - to receive posts you make to Finale
> SET Finale NOREPRO - to not receive posts you make to Finale
> LIST   - to get a list of mailing lists served by
>  this host
> HELP   - to receive a help file
>
>
>By default, subscriptions are set to MAIL, REPRO, NOCONCEAL.
>
>
>Sam Houston State University's implementation of LISTSERV is mail oriented
>exclusively and is only responsive to the above commands.  Conventional
>IBM-based interactive LISTSERV is not available, nor are its complement of
>commands -- only those listed above.
>
>
>Please do NOT send administrative messages to the list address
>(Finale@SHSU.edu) as posts to these addresses are sent to the entire
>subscribership distribution for the list.
>
>
>  About Finale Archives 
>
>
>Archives of Finale are maintained via MAIL on the Sam Houston State
>University file server, FILESERV, under the filename structure
>FINALE.-MM, where "" represents the year and "mm" represents the
>numeric equivalent of the month.  For example, the archives of Finale for
>January, 1994, would be FINALE.1994-01.
>
>
>To retrieve via MAIL the Finale archives for June, 1994, include the
>command:
> SENDME FINALE.1994-06
>in the body of a mail message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>You may send FILESERV multiple commands so long as each resides on a unique
>line of the MAIL message.  If you are interested in available FILESERV
>commands, include the command HELP in the body of a mail message to
>FILESERV.
>
>
>  --- FTP access to files served on FILESERV ---
>
>
>Most files which are accessible for FILESERV retrieval are also available
>for anonymous ftp retrieval from Niord.SHSU.edu (192.92.115.8), including
>the archives for Finale.  Archives for Finale are retained in the directory
>[FILESERV.FINALE] using the same filename syntax as above.
>
>
>List owner: Henry E. Howey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>(This message was generated automatically.)


Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?

[Johannes Gebauer]

Phil Daley schrieb:

Here you go:

 >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:06:43 EST
 >From: MX mailing list processor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 >
 >
 >   PLEASE READ THIS MESSAGE AND RETAIN IT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE
 >
 >
 >You have been added to mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Phil,
you may not have noticed, but the world has changed a little since 1997, 
and so has the Finale list. It has moved to a new listserver 
application, email addresses are no longer accesible in the archives, 
and the archives are members only. There are good reasons for all this, 
that weren't there in 1997.


I have absolutely no complaints about copyright issues, although I can 
understand others for being concerned. However, I am very concerned 
about making email addresses available to the public. The spam on two 
email addresses I had once subscribed to the Finale list became almost 
anbearable until the emaila addresses were finally stripped from the 
archives. After that the spam slowly died down again.


I really don't want this to happen again, especially as general spam has 
increased a lot anyway.


I have already taken some precaution by using a dedicated email address 
only for mailing lists and the like, but anything that will make it more 
difficult to harvest that address is desirable, and vice versa. 
OpenSubscribers is publicising my email address, even though there is 
absolutely no reason to do so.


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
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RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[ronan]

Cool down, Man! I have as much right to voice my opinion as any other member
of the list. I have been very active in other forums for the past several
years, taking part in discussions and helping novices with their problems.
Just because I'm new to this list serve does not classify me as a "lurker".

But whether I have a long and honorable record as an active Finale supporter
still does not give you the right to judge me.

And what's the "thread cop" nonsense you're spouting? That's nonsense. If I
want to read about Sibelius there are lots of places I can go to find out
about the latest and greatest of that product. But this list is labeled
"Finale", not "Finale and any other competing product people care to
promote." 


Ronald J Brown

-Original Message-
From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: July 12, 2005 6:21 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote:

> I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a Finale
> site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it 
> taken
> over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius 
> users
> like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested 
> in
> reading them either.

Then don't.

Seriously, what is the point of this thread?  The Sibelius discussion 
was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features 
and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate.  If that's not an 
appropriate topic for discussion, then what is?

And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to 
Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) 
who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about 
allegedly off-topic discussions?  Who died and made you thread cop?

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[Dan Carno]

At 03:52 AM 7/13/2005, you wrote:

Sibelius asks that you
define these properties of a note before you enter the
note itself.


Not true.  I use Sibelius (as well as Finale) regularly, and I never input 
in this manner.  I always enter the notes first and then everything else 
afterwards.  Just as in Finale, it is a simple matter to do mass entry of 
articulations, mass copying of expressions, etc.  I don't see that either 
program has the advantage here.  Finale is a bit more flexible, but 
Sibelius' tremendous copy facility closes the gap quite 
handily.  Ultimately, both programs are going to get you where you need to 
go.  But one will put a smile on your face when you open it up every day, 
the other, less so.  There is no predicting this.  Each person has to find 
out for themselves, and a lively exchange of information helps this processs.


I know many of you are tired of these Sibelius references on a Finale list, 
but the benefits overall far outweigh the inconvenience of hitting the 
delete key.  The discussion has been informational for both programs, 
weeding out mis-information, and galvanizing ideas for a better version of 
Finale in the future, which is something we  all want.  In spite of some of 
the intense exchanges that have taken place here, I see nothing but "good 
health" here, and I will now go drink to all of yours (orange juice of 
course,  it's a bit early in the day!).


Dan Carno


Daniel Carno
Music Engraving Services
Quality work in Sibelius, Finale, and Score
4514 Makyes Road
Syracuse, New York 13215
(315) 492-2987
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Darcy James Argue]

Ronald,

As someone who is new to this list, did it ever occur to you that maybe 
you shouldn't begin your involvement with this list by lecturing 
everyone else on how it ought to be run?


This is not a moderated list, and people are free to discuss whatever 
they deem appropriate.  And LOTS of list members thought it was 
appropriate to talk about the new features introduced in the latest 
version of Sibelius, how it compares to Fin2k6, and how that might 
impact Finale.  If you didn't want to read those threads, you were 
under no obligation to follow them.


If you want a moderated list where the word "Sibelius" is banned, fine, 
go start your own.  But don't just barge in here and tell all of us how 
to run our community.  That's pretty goddamned rude, and I very much 
doubt you would do anything remotely like that in real life.


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY


On 13 Jul 2005, at 8:10 AM, ronan wrote:

Cool down, Man! I have as much right to voice my opinion as any other 
member
of the list. I have been very active in other forums for the past 
several
years, taking part in discussions and helping novices with their 
problems.
Just because I'm new to this list serve does not classify me as a 
"lurker".


But whether I have a long and honorable record as an active Finale 
supporter

still does not give you the right to judge me.

And what's the "thread cop" nonsense you're spouting? That's nonsense. 
If I
want to read about Sibelius there are lots of places I can go to find 
out

about the latest and greatest of that product. But this list is labeled
"Finale", not "Finale and any other competing product people care to
promote."


Ronald J Brown

-Original Message-
From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July 12, 2005 6:21 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote:

I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a 
Finale

site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it
taken
over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius
users
like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested
in
reading them either.


Then don't.

Seriously, what is the point of this thread?  The Sibelius discussion
was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features
and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate.  If that's not an
appropriate topic for discussion, then what is?

And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to
Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever)
who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about
allegedly off-topic discussions?  Who died and made you thread cop?

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[ronan]

Okay, I seem to have started a tempest in a teapot here. I joined this list
serve a week ago. There were days when all I saw where lists of Sibelius
this and Sibelius that. As a newcomer I was beginning to believe this was a
Sibelius list and that I had joined the wrong one. I thought, okay, this is
a general music software discussion site. Then Michael Lawler and Ken Folwer
complained and I realized what was wrong. 

I seem to have offended a great many people with my endorsement of Michael
Lawler and Ken Folwer's opinions. 

Is this how it works here? Only well-known names are allowed to publish
complaints? If anyone else does, they are "lurkers" and "thread cops"?

Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing.

In peace.

Ron

Ronald J Brown

-Original Message-
From: David W. Fenton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: July 12, 2005 6:58 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

On 12 Jul 2005 at 18:20, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote:
> 
> > I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a
> > Finale site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and
> > having it taken over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners.
> > I'm glad Sibelius users like their product and want to talk about
> > it, but I am not interested in reading them either.
> 
> Then don't.

Did any of the thread subjects lack the word "Sibelius" in them?

> Seriously, what is the point of this thread?  The Sibelius discussion
> was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features
> and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate.  If that's not an
> appropriate topic for discussion, then what is?
> 
> And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to
> Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way
> whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain
> about allegedly off-topic discussions?  Who died and made you thread
> cop?

This is what makes me shake my head, too. The same people who 
contribute most of the Finale-related content seem to be the ones who 
were generating all the Sibelius-related content. Why is it, then, 
that people whose names I don't recognize (i.e., they don't post 
often, if at all) feel they have some grounds for criticizing what 
the people who *are* posting have chosen to discuss? If you don't 
like the current topics, then START A FINALE-RELATED THREAD.

This even leaves aside the fact that all of that content was 
associated with the very relevant issue of "how does Sibelius stack 
up to Finale?"

I am quite glad that we have Sibelius users on the list who were kind 
enough to respond to those of us who had specific questions about how 
Sibelius works. It helps us make a much more objective evaluation 
when we have the explanations of people who have a deep understanding 
of the competitor program.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved



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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Johannes Gebauer]

ronan schrieb:

Cool down, Man! I have as much right to voice my opinion as any other member
of the list. I have been very active in other forums for the past several
years, taking part in discussions and helping novices with their problems.
Just because I'm new to this list serve does not classify me as a "lurker".

But whether I have a long and honorable record as an active Finale supporter
still does not give you the right to judge me.

And what's the "thread cop" nonsense you're spouting? That's nonsense. If I
want to read about Sibelius there are lots of places I can go to find out
about the latest and greatest of that product. But this list is labeled
"Finale", not "Finale and any other competing product people care to
promote." 


My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way 
this list works you are free to go.


The Sibelius issues that were discussed here were directly related to 
Finale.


Even if they weren't, this list has always had a policy of letting OT or 
TAN discussions come and go.


Your only post I can find in the 7000 or so Finale list messages I still 
have on my computer is the one from last night. How dare you join an 
existing community with a complaint!


(Do you also go to dinner parties complaining about the conversation 
before you even introduce yourself?)


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 06:51 AM 7/13/05 -0400, dhbailey wrote:
>I think that speedy entry in Finale, where you can work along without a 
>mouse once you have clicked to enter the editing frame, and you use only 
>the computer keyboard without the numeric keypad, isn't quite possible 
>in Sibelius.

I see. This is the feature I use 100% for note/rest input, and once the
speedy frame is chosen, I never touch the mouse except when the bass-clef
bug bites.

In Finale, it's time lost every time I have to use a mouselike tool (and I
have a left-hand trackball and right-hand mouse and pen tablet for
different purposes). I used to have a voice command interface (back in
Windows 3.1), but didn't get one after moving away from the old OS. I only
used the interface for Finale, actually, because I could automate most of
the repetitive commands.

So put a couple of strokes back in the Finale column for its computer
keyboard interface.

(Anybody use a voice interface under Windows? Any good?)

Dennis


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Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Phil Daley]

I was looking through my archives.

I guess Sib must have fixed a bunch of this stuff in the new version?

>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:29:04 +0100
>From: Jonathan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>O.K. for David, Mark & Joel (+ any lurkers) here goes.
>
>Remember this his a list from a little way back (actually, I did post it
>on the list) and so some things might have been improved since then, but
>then Sibelius would never admit there were faults or problems in the
>first place. You'd get a "Why do you want to do that?"
>
>Most of the major cons for me come from the clunky interface even in the
>beautiful OSX environment and the method of pre-emptive input. The app.
>always gives you the impression that it knows better than you, maybe
>that's great for students and the like but it consequently lacks the
>professionalism and versatility of Finale.
>
>BTW, this list is far from exhaustive.
>
>- And before I get barraged with 100's of "can-do-nows" most of these
>points were comparing Sib. to Finale 2001-2 at the time they were both
>on the market together and they "couldn't-do-then", I know because I was
>trying! - And I am/have to upgrade to Sib. v.3 shortly - so I shall
>update the list after I've seen the fixes ;-) .
>
>69 reasons not to buy Sibelius over Finale
>
>1. Brackets won't automatically hide when you 'optimise' a double (or
>more) staved part.
>
>2. System spacing is never even.
>
>3. Just try to move an individual measure number
>
>4. Inability to move ties easily.
>
>5. Poor spacing of Multi Measure rests especially in the same system as
>single measures.
>
>6. Larger files run slow (Mac G4 867mhz/256mb RAM)
>
>7. v1.4 Freezes my computer every time I open it from a start-up. Work
>round is very strange: I have to restart with exts disabled, go to ATM
>prefs., bin all items labelled with OTF, restart and Zap the PRAM, open
>OMS and test studio.then I can finally open Sibelius. There is no
>fix for this apart from buying v2.0, which leads me to believe that v2.0
>is not and upgrade but a bug fix.a very expensive bug fix.
>
>8. Impossible to recover text (in undo history) if you've hit return
>from a text block edit.
>
>9. Very frustrating when you need to move individual systems or staves,
>they all jump around and the page gradually moves higher in the screen
>view until you are stuck with just the lower 4cms of your score in view.
>
>10. Hairpin cresc./dims. vary in opening width depending on their length.
>
>11. Slurs are not like engraver slurs in Finale, they collide and clash
>all over, plus they are really hard to move around over system breaks,
>some you can't move at all.
>
>12. Terrible look to rhythmic notation, for example try two
>consecutive un-beamed 8th notes with a tie.
>
>13. Printing is slower (spreads and spooling scores).
>
>14 Clunky text selection for expressions etc.
>
>15. Procedure for changing (hiding or deleting) measure numbers is far
>too complicated.
>
>16. Page %'s for viewing are fixed and not always what you want for
>optimum screen size, you can't just select a size as with Finale (or
>make it default).
>
>17. Beams and Slurs look really jagged on screen.
>
>18. Flags don't line up with stems on screen view
>
>19. Accidentals in chord clusters are incorrect and often badly spaced.
>
>20. Placement of Articulations (accents, staccs, tenutos, etc.) is far
>too rigid, there is no scope for individual placement or movement.
>
>21. In part extracts of Multi Wind parts you will loose the
>transpositions for each instrument change.
>
>22. Any Finale file containing grace notes imported into Sibelius will
>really mess up. The result will be parts that contain super small empty
>measures where ever there was a corresponding measure in the score
>containing grace notes. Also the MM rest groups start appearing all over
>the pages in very strange places. The only work round is to delete each
>bar in each part and then insert again. This can waste hours, yet
>reading the Sibelius promo you would think it a cinch...think again.
>
>23. Try putting articulations over rhythmic notation.Yuk!
>
>24. So you want to move an Articulation? This is what the Sibelius
>manual says on page 69:
>"In the unlikely event that you want to move an articulation, delete it
>and create a new one as a symbol. Be aware that articulations created as
>symbols have no playback effect."
>
>25. Score expressions (tempo markings etc.) cannot be 'nudged' and must
>be dragged.
>
>26. Settings for part extract need to be altered each time for single or
>double stave parts.
>
>27. If you change font details on a text expression all other instances
>of that word in the score remain unchanged, so you have to change them
>all individually.
>
>28. Flags on voice layers are too short and collide.
>
>29. The broken chord symbol in front of chord clusters is not taken into
>spacing consideration and consequently needs to be dragged around to
>stop it clashing with barlines, every time.
>
>30. Most

Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?

[Phil Daley]

At 7/13/2005 08:09 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

>Phil Daley schrieb:
>> Here you go:
>>
>>  >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:06:43 EST
>>  >From: MX mailing list processor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >   PLEASE READ THIS MESSAGE AND RETAIN IT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >You have been added to mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Phil,
>you may not have noticed, but the world has changed a little since 1997,
>and so has the Finale list. It has moved to a new listserver
>application, email addresses are no longer accesible in the archives,
>and the archives are members only. There are good reasons for all this,
>that weren't there in 1997.

Ooops, sorry about that mix up.

I didn't check the version.  I must not have saved the new version, when I 
signed up recently.


Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Richard Yates]

> Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing.
> Ron

Sounds good, but stick around. The tides of topics come and go. Some here
will remember the (it seems like) hundreds of messages over the question of
when the 20th Century actually ended. Ultimately, though, you will find that
this list is a tremendous resource. Ask a question about a Finale problem
and see how quick you get a solution.

Richard Yates



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Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Richard Yates]

Missing from this list is:

70. Note spacing cannot be set to avoid collisions with expressions. This,
combined with the inability to move articulations horizontally, was the key
deficiency in my deciding not to buy Sibelius.

Richard Yates

> I was looking through my archives.
>
> I guess Sib must have fixed a bunch of this stuff in the new version?
>
>  >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:29:04 +0100
>  >From: Jonathan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  >
>  >O.K. for David, Mark & Joel (+ any lurkers) here goes.
>  >
>  >Remember this his a list from a little way back (actually, I did post it
>  >on the list) and so some things might have been improved since then, but
>  >then Sibelius would never admit there were faults or problems in the
>  >first place. You'd get a "Why do you want to do that?"
>  >
>  >Most of the major cons for me come from the clunky interface even in the
>  >beautiful OSX environment and the method of pre-emptive input. The app.
>  >always gives you the impression that it knows better than you, maybe
>  >that's great for students and the like but it consequently lacks the
>  >professionalism and versatility of Finale.
>  >
>  >BTW, this list is far from exhaustive.
>  >
>  >- And before I get barraged with 100's of "can-do-nows" most of these
>  >points were comparing Sib. to Finale 2001-2 at the time they were both
>  >on the market together and they "couldn't-do-then", I know because I was
>  >trying! - And I am/have to upgrade to Sib. v.3 shortly - so I shall
>  >update the list after I've seen the fixes ;-) .
>  >
>  >69 reasons not to buy Sibelius over Finale
>  >
>  >1. Brackets won't automatically hide when you 'optimise' a double (or
>  >more) staved part.
>  >
>  >2. System spacing is never even.
>  >
>  >3. Just try to move an individual measure number
>  >
>  >4. Inability to move ties easily.
>  >
>  >5. Poor spacing of Multi Measure rests especially in the same system as
>  >single measures.
>  >
>  >6. Larger files run slow (Mac G4 867mhz/256mb RAM)
>  >
>  >7. v1.4 Freezes my computer every time I open it from a start-up. Work
>  >round is very strange: I have to restart with exts disabled, go to ATM
>  >prefs., bin all items labelled with OTF, restart and Zap the PRAM, open
>  >OMS and test studio.then I can finally open Sibelius. There is no
>  >fix for this apart from buying v2.0, which leads me to believe that v2.0
>  >is not and upgrade but a bug fix.a very expensive bug fix.
>  >
>  >8. Impossible to recover text (in undo history) if you've hit return
>  >from a text block edit.
>  >
>  >9. Very frustrating when you need to move individual systems or staves,
>  >they all jump around and the page gradually moves higher in the screen
>  >view until you are stuck with just the lower 4cms of your score in view.
>  >
>  >10. Hairpin cresc./dims. vary in opening width depending on their
length.
>  >
>  >11. Slurs are not like engraver slurs in Finale, they collide and clash
>  >all over, plus they are really hard to move around over system breaks,
>  >some you can't move at all.
>  >
>  >12. Terrible look to rhythmic notation, for example try two
>  >consecutive un-beamed 8th notes with a tie.
>  >
>  >13. Printing is slower (spreads and spooling scores).
>  >
>  >14 Clunky text selection for expressions etc.
>  >
>  >15. Procedure for changing (hiding or deleting) measure numbers is far
>  >too complicated.
>  >
>  >16. Page %'s for viewing are fixed and not always what you want for
>  >optimum screen size, you can't just select a size as with Finale (or
>  >make it default).
>  >
>  >17. Beams and Slurs look really jagged on screen.
>  >
>  >18. Flags don't line up with stems on screen view
>  >
>  >19. Accidentals in chord clusters are incorrect and often badly spaced.
>  >
>  >20. Placement of Articulations (accents, staccs, tenutos, etc.) is far
>  >too rigid, there is no scope for individual placement or movement.
>  >
>  >21. In part extracts of Multi Wind parts you will loose the
>  >transpositions for each instrument change.
>  >
>  >22. Any Finale file containing grace notes imported into Sibelius will
>  >really mess up. The result will be parts that contain super small empty
>  >measures where ever there was a corresponding measure in the score
>  >containing grace notes. Also the MM rest groups start appearing all over
>  >the pages in very strange places. The only work round is to delete each
>  >bar in each part and then insert again. This can waste hours, yet
>  >reading the Sibelius promo you would think it a cinch...think again.
>  >
>  >23. Try putting articulations over rhythmic notation.Yuk!
>  >
>  >24. So you want to move an Articulation? This is what the Sibelius
>  >manual says on page 69:
>  >"In the unlikely event that you want to move an articulation, delete it
>  >and create a new one as a symbol. Be aware that articulations created as
>  >symbols have no playback effect."
>  >
>  >25. Score expressions (tempo markings etc.) cannot

Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!

[Christopher Smith]

On Jul 12, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Simon Troup wrote:


... apart from the fact that when you join it says ...

"This is a private list, which means that the  list of members is
not available to non-members."

... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email
address readily available on another site.



And that is indeed the case. Emails ARE stripped out.


... and then posted back up on opensubscriber.com.



Right. Sorry, that should teach me to read ahead.

Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Eden - Lawrence D.]

Yes..  This List has always been a valuable resource when I
needed an
answer about Finale.

Ron should be forgiven for not knowing that it is futile to suggest that a
topic be dropped on the Finale List...I have been wearing out my delete
key recently too, and I don't recall hearing such anger with another list
member since I was on the Trumpet List...:-)


ALso, I am happy to say that my chance of switching to Sibelius are two
fold:  no way and no how.



On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Richard Yates wrote:

> > Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing.
> > Ron
>
> Sounds good, but stick around. The tides of topics come and go. Some here
> will remember the (it seems like) hundreds of messages over the question of
> when the 20th Century actually ended. Ultimately, though, you will find that
> this list is a tremendous resource. Ask a question about a Finale problem
> and see how quick you get a solution.
>
> Richard Yates
>
>
>
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>




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[Finale] Fwd: Welcome to the "Finale" mailing list

[Phil Daley]

OK, here's the current list info when you subscribe:

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:41:52 -0500
>
>Welcome to the Finale@shsu.edu mailing list!
>
>To post to this list, send your email to:
>
>  finale@shsu.edu
>
>General information about the mailing list is at:
>
>  http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
>If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
>or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
>subscription page at:
>
>  http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/options/finale/p_daley%40conknet.com
>
>You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:
>
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
>quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
>
>You must know your password to change your options (including changing
>the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:
>
>  shoals
>
>Normally, Mailman will remind you of your shsu.edu mailing list
>passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you
>prefer.  This reminder will also include instructions on how to
>unsubscribe or change your account options.  There is also a button on
>your options page that will email your current password to you.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[dhbailey]

Richard Yates wrote:

Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing.
Ron



Sounds good, but stick around. The tides of topics come and go. Some here
will remember the (it seems like) hundreds of messages over the question of
when the 20th Century actually ended. 


It's over?  Yikes!  Why wasn't I informed? :-)


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Ken Durling]

I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks like 
it was from version 1.4.  I'm really not sure what relevance it has at this 
point.  But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, things that 
haven't and things that display an ignorance of how Sibelius works.  Did 
you really mean to prolong the already protested Sibelius thread by asking 
for this long list to be addressed, or is this just an out-of-date 
"Sibelius bash?"


Ken



At 05:51 AM 7/13/2005, you wrote:

I was looking through my archives.

I guess Sib must have fixed a bunch of this stuff in the new version?

>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:29:04 +0100
>From: Jonathan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>O.K. for David, Mark & Joel (+ any lurkers) here goes.
>
>Remember this his a list from a little way back (actually, I did post it
>on the list) and so some things might have been improved since then, but
>then Sibelius would never admit there were faults or problems in the
>first place. You'd get a "Why do you want to do that?"
>
>Most of the major cons for me come from the clunky interface even in the
>beautiful OSX environment and the method of pre-emptive input. The app.
>always gives you the impression that it knows better than you, maybe
>that's great for students and the like but it consequently lacks the
>professionalism and versatility of Finale.
>
>BTW, this list is far from exhaustive.
>
>- And before I get barraged with 100's of "can-do-nows" most of these
>points were comparing Sib. to Finale 2001-2 at the time they were both
>on the market together and they "couldn't-do-then", I know because I was
>trying! - And I am/have to upgrade to Sib. v.3 shortly - so I shall
>update the list after I've seen the fixes ;-) .
>
>69 reasons not to buy Sibelius over Finale
>
>1. Brackets won't automatically hide when you 'optimise' a double (or
>more) staved part.
>
>2. System spacing is never even.
>
>3. Just try to move an individual measure number
>
>4. Inability to move ties easily.
>
>5. Poor spacing of Multi Measure rests especially in the same system as
>single measures.
>
>6. Larger files run slow (Mac G4 867mhz/256mb RAM)
>
>7. v1.4 Freezes my computer every time I open it from a start-up. Work
>round is very strange: I have to restart with exts disabled, go to ATM
>prefs., bin all items labelled with OTF, restart and Zap the PRAM, open
>OMS and test studio.then I can finally open Sibelius. There is no
>fix for this apart from buying v2.0, which leads me to believe that v2.0
>is not and upgrade but a bug fix.a very expensive bug fix.
>
>8. Impossible to recover text (in undo history) if you've hit return
>from a text block edit.
>
>9. Very frustrating when you need to move individual systems or staves,
>they all jump around and the page gradually moves higher in the screen
>view until you are stuck with just the lower 4cms of your score in view.
>
>10. Hairpin cresc./dims. vary in opening width depending on their length.
>
>11. Slurs are not like engraver slurs in Finale, they collide and clash
>all over, plus they are really hard to move around over system breaks,
>some you can't move at all.
>
>12. Terrible look to rhythmic notation, for example try two
>consecutive un-beamed 8th notes with a tie.
>
>13. Printing is slower (spreads and spooling scores).
>
>14 Clunky text selection for expressions etc.
>
>15. Procedure for changing (hiding or deleting) measure numbers is far
>too complicated.
>
>16. Page %'s for viewing are fixed and not always what you want for
>optimum screen size, you can't just select a size as with Finale (or
>make it default).
>
>17. Beams and Slurs look really jagged on screen.
>
>18. Flags don't line up with stems on screen view
>
>19. Accidentals in chord clusters are incorrect and often badly spaced.
>
>20. Placement of Articulations (accents, staccs, tenutos, etc.) is far
>too rigid, there is no scope for individual placement or movement.
>
>21. In part extracts of Multi Wind parts you will loose the
>transpositions for each instrument change.
>
>22. Any Finale file containing grace notes imported into Sibelius will
>really mess up. The result will be parts that contain super small empty
>measures where ever there was a corresponding measure in the score
>containing grace notes. Also the MM rest groups start appearing all over
>the pages in very strange places. The only work round is to delete each
>bar in each part and then insert again. This can waste hours, yet
>reading the Sibelius promo you would think it a cinch...think again.
>
>23. Try putting articulations over rhythmic notation.Yuk!
>
>24. So you want to move an Articulation? This is what the Sibelius
>manual says on page 69:
>"In the unlikely event that you want to move an articulation, delete it
>and create a new one as a symbol. Be aware that articulations created as
>symbols have no playback effect."
>
>25. Score expressions (tempo markings etc.) cannot be 'nudged' and must
>be dragged.
>
>26. Settings fo

Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[Jari Williamsson]

Dan Carno wrote:

Not true.  I use Sibelius (as well as Finale) regularly, and I never 
input in this manner.  I always enter the notes first and then 
everything else afterwards.  Just as in Finale, it is a simple matter to 
do mass entry of articulations, mass copying of expressions, etc.  


FWIW, that wasn't what Tyler reffered to. He talked about the input mode 
only.


> The discussion has been informational for both programs,

I obviously missed that part. ;-)

> weeding out mis-information,

Not true at all!


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Phil Daley]

At 7/13/2005 09:49 AM, Ken  Durling wrote:

>I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks like
>it was from version 1.4.  I'm really not sure what relevance it has at this
>point.  But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, things that
>haven't and things that display an ignorance of how Sibelius works.  Did
>you really mean to prolong the already protested Sibelius thread by asking
>for this long list to be addressed, or is this just an out-of-date
>"Sibelius bash?"

I just thought it was interesting and possibly relevant.  I guess not.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Randolph Peters]

At 9:25 AM -0400 7/13/05, Eden - Lawrence D. wrote:

I have been wearing out my delete
key recently too,


This is a handy tip for some email programs:

In Eudora, for example, you can option-click on a subject line in the 
mail box and it will quickly select and group all of the same subject 
together. That way you can delete in one pass all of a subject that 
doesn't interest you.


-Randolph Peters
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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Welcome to the "Finale" mailing list

[Allen Fisher]

Hope nobody unsubscribes you *grin*


On 7/13/05 8:40 AM, "Phil Daley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said this:

>> You must know your password to change your options (including changing
>> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:

-- 
Allen

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Re: [Finale] midi channels assignment

[Allen Fisher]

Hi Eric,

If you've got each instrument on a separate channel, make sure you choose
"Channels become Staves" in the import MIDI file dialog.

HTH,
Allen

-- 

Allen J. Fisher
Quality Assurance Developer
MakeMusic! Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.makemusic.com


On 7/12/05 3:27 PM, "Eric Dussault" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said this:

> I am pretty bad in understanding how midi works, having been always
> interested in music typesetting, but I have a problem here and I
> don't know what to do.
> 
> The composer wants me to export de music so that every instruments
> will appear in midi in the same order as the score (39 different
> instruments) so that he can assign himself the proper instruments.
> I've tried to assign a different chanel to every instrument (39
> chanels) and when I open the midi file in Finale, to order in fucked
> up, and so are the chanel number assignements. I don't care about
> what instrument goes with what chanel, but want one chanel per
> instruement in the same order as the score.
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Éric Dussault
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [Finale] midi chanels assignment

[ronan]

I own Finale 2004 (about to be 2006) and it supports 64 channels. Check the
"midi option" settings.

Ron

Ronald J Brown

-Original Message-
From: Neal Schermerhorn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: July 13, 2005 12:38 AM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] midi chanels assignment

Hey, I know the FINALE list is all so busy discussing everything but FINALE,
but his guy had a question.

> I am pretty bad in understanding how midi works, having been always
> interested in music typesetting, but I have a problem here and I
> don't know what to do.
>
> The composer wants me to export de music so that every instruments
> will appear in midi in the same order as the score (39 different
> instruments) so that he can assign himself the proper instruments.
> I've tried to assign a different chanel to every instrument (39
> chanels) and when I open the midi file in Finale, to order in f*cked
> up, and so are the chanel number assignements. I don't care about
> what instrument goes with what chanel, but want one chanel per
> instruement in the same order as the score.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Éric Dussault

My answer: I don't know of more than 32 MIDI channels available on Finale,
others may know more. But 10 and 26 are drums, so 30 pitched channels are
available. So 39 channels may be a pipe dream.

Maybe one of the many so preoddupied with the non-Finale threads would care
to coment?

Neal Schermerhorn



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[Finale] Changing Instruments

[George Galway]

Dear All,

Can someone please help?

How can I change instruments after creating a file.

I have created a piece for clarinet, piano and double bass. 

I would like to change the bass to another bass inst. Or perhaps tuba.

Many Thanks,

George Galway Manchester UK 
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[Finale] Confusion re staff "systems"

[BillSincl]

Hi Finale gurus;
 
I'm trying to understand better how to manipulate staff systems, or line 
grouping of measures. Suppose I encounter a situation where 4 measures (let's 
say 33-36) are on a line that is too crowded. I see that I can reduce 
crowding by forcing measure 36 to be on a line with the ones following it (Let's 
say it has a whole bunch of 16th notes), and force 33-35 to be on a line by 
themselves.
 
How do I accomplish that? Of course I realize that "fit music" will undo 
what I've done. Ideally, I should be able to tell Finale how to group the 
measures "intelligently" such that the real busy ones occur fewer on a line, and 
the sparse ones occur more to a line. Is a system the same as a line?
 
How do I unlock a system? When I click on the little 
padlock, nothing happens.
 
Yours; Bill 
S.
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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Welcome to the "Finale" mailing list

[Phil Daley]

Not a problem.  I already unsubscribed.  It was just a test address so I 
could see what the message was.


I guess I should have read it more carefully ;-)

At 7/13/2005 10:39 AM, Allen Fisher wrote:

>Hope nobody unsubscribes you *grin*
>
>
>On 7/13/05 8:40 AM, "Phil Daley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said this:
>
>>> You must know your password to change your options (including changing
>>> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Changing Instruments

[YATESLAWRENCE]

Go into staff tool, click on the stave you wish to change - change the name 
of the stave in the "staff attributes" box.
 
To change the midi sound, go into "window"  - "instrument list" and 
change the relevant instrument there.
 
All the best,
 
Lawrence - Manchester
 
 
"þaes 
ofereode - þisses swa maeg"http://lawrenceyates.co.ukDulcian 
Wind Quintet: http://dulcianwind.co.uk
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Re: [Finale] Confusion re staff "systems"

[Aaron Sherber]

At 11:01 AM 07/13/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I'm trying to understand better how to manipulate staff systems, or
>line grouping of measures. Suppose I encounter a situation where 4
>measures (let's say 33-36) are on a line that is too crowded. I see
>that I can reduce crowding by forcing measure 36 to be on a line with
>the ones following it (Let's say it has a whole bunch of 16th notes),
>and force 33-35 to be on a line by themselves.
>
>How do I accomplish that?

Use the Mass Edit tool to select m.36, and then push the down arrow 
key. This nudges m.36 to the next system -- and also puts padlocks on 
both systems, since you've now manually affected both of them (taking 
a measure away from the first and putting it into the second).


>Of course I realize that "fit music" will
>undo what I've done. Ideally, I should be able to tell Finale how to
>group the measures "intelligently" such that the real busy ones occur
>fewer on a line, and the sparse ones occur more to a line.

Finale *does* do that. When you apply any of the music spacing 
methods, Finale figures out what the best spacing and size are for 
that measure according to all of the settings in Document Options | 
Music Spacing. Then it sees how many measures fit into each system 
without making any of the measures any smaller than the size it has 
determined. Then it justifies each system, stretching each measure in 
the system (never squeezing) so that the spacing expands 
proportionately and the measures fill the system. If you're noticing 
that you have lots of busy measures that appear too tight, try 
playing with the music spacing settings and respacing the whole document.


In Page View, after you make a change to music spacing you also have 
to do Edit | Update Layout, unless Automatic Music Layout is checked. 
If you've already done some manual thing, take a look at Options | 
Update Layout Options, which determines how Finale will reflow 
measures across systems. If it says "Maintain System Locks", then 
Finale will not touch any system with a padlock, which may not be 
what you want.


> Is a system
>the same as a line?

More or less. The terminology is helpful if you're talking about 
piano music, or an orchestra score, where you have a flute staff and 
an oboe staff etc., all making up one system on the page. If you say 
"line", it's not clear whether you mean an individual staff or the whole group.


>How do I unlock a system? When I click on the little padlock, 
nothing happens.


Use the mass edit tool to select any measure in the system, and then 
hit U for Unlock. You may then have to update your layout (see above).


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Confusion re staff "systems"

[Jari Williamsson]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm trying to understand better how to manipulate staff systems, or line 
grouping of measures. Suppose I encounter a situation where 4 measures 
(let's say 33-36) are on a line that is too crowded. I see that I can 
reduce crowding by forcing measure 36 to be on a line with the ones 
following it (Let's say it has a whole bunch of 16th notes), and force 
33-35 to be on a line by themselves.
 
How do I accomplish that? 


Mark measure 36 with the mass mover and press the down key to move it to 
the next system.



Ideally, I should be able to tell Finale how to group
the measures "intelligently" such that the real busy ones occur fewer on 
a line, and the sparse ones occur more to a line. 


Finale redistributes the (default) measure layout based on your note 
spacing settings.



Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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RE: [Finale] Changing Instruments

[George Galway]

Hi Lawrence,
 
Many thanks for your 
rapid reply!  I owe you a pint of best bitter if I ever bump into 
you.
 
George 
G.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 13 July 2005 16:11To: 
finale@shsu.eduSubject: Re: [Finale] Changing 
Instruments

Go into staff tool, click on the stave you wish to change - change the name 
of the stave in the "staff attributes" box.
 
To change the midi sound, go into "window"  - "instrument list" and 
change the relevant instrument there.
 
All the best,
 
Lawrence - Manchester
 
 
"þaes ofereode - 
þisses swa maeg"http://lawrenceyates.co.ukDulcian 
Wind Quintet: http://dulcianwind.co.uk
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Re: [Finale] Confusion re staff "systems"

[Brad Beyenhof]

On 13/07/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> I'm trying to understand better how to manipulate staff systems, or line
> grouping of measures. Suppose I encounter a situation where 4 measures
> (let's say 33-36) are on a line that is too crowded. I see that I can
> reduce crowding by forcing measure 36 to be on a line with the ones
> following it (Let's say it has a whole bunch of 16th notes), and force
> 33-35 to be on a line by themselves. 
>   
> How do I accomplish that?

In the Mass Edit tool, just select measure 36 and hit the down arrow.
It will jump to the next system, and lock both systems in place.

> Of course I realize that "fit music" will undo what I've done.

No, it won't. "Fit Music" can be applied globally, or it can be
applied to selected measures. You can select all measures you'd like
to appear on one system (e.g. mm33-35 in your example), hit "Fit
Music" (shift-cmd-M on Mac), and tell it to place only the selected
measures on one system. "Fit Music" only applies to the document as a
whole when no music is highlighted.

> Ideally, I should be able to tell Finale how to group the
> measures "intelligently" such that the real busy ones occur fewer on a
> line, and the sparse ones occur more to a line.

This is easy to do, if the systems are not locked. Choose "Fit Music,"
unlock all systems, select all measures (cmd-A on Mac), apply note
spacing (hit the '4' key), and then update the layout (cmd-\ on Mac).
Everything will be intelligently spaced, and then you can choose
yourself how you may want to re-format individual systems.

The spacing used when you apply note spacing can be customized in
Document Options > Music Spacing.

> Is a system the same as a line? 

Yes.

> How do I unlock a system? When I click on the little padlock, nothing
> happens. 

Select at least one measure in that system, then choose "Fit Music"
and set it to unlock the selected system.

Two other shortcuts bear mention here: cmd-L and cmd-U. Command-L will
lock all selected systems in their current arrangement, so if you've
flowed the piece exactly the way you want it you can select the whole
piece and lock it in its current position (rather than going
system-by-system and locking each set of measures in place. Command-U
unlocks the selected systems, but it will not respace or update
layout.

P.S. To those complaining about off-topic discussions, Bill has just
shown the most effective method of stopping them. Ask a Finale
question, and you'll bring the list's attention to Finale. Don't try
to steer the community *away* from topics, but lead it *to* topics,
and someone will undoubtedly respond.

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7.

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[Finale] Rights to complain

[Neal Schermerhorn]

Johannes Gebauer wrote:

> Is this your first post to the list? I can't remember your name somehow.
> You must be one of the owners then? Or what other rights do you have to
> complain?

1) No it is not. I've been a member and lightly posting since early 04. Not
that it would be relevant, as probably MOST readers are not Finale experts
and don't have a lot to offer. Plus as I read the digest, it's rare I see a
q which I CAN answer that has not been answered already.

2) Why does it matter if you can remember my name? Would you be less of a
dick if you knew me better?

3) I am not one of the owners.

4) Re-read the post in question. My statements were intended
tongue-in-cheek, and the only thing I see a need to apologize for is not
making that more explicit.

That said, what right do I have to complain? As much right as you have to
complain - which you have been doing lately with aplomb.

See, we're members of an email list. Some members are really knowledgeable
and have a lot to offer. Others are less so, but pipe up when they have a
question or suggestion. Others still are readers who post rarely. But each
is a member of the community.

Would you suggest that only the people who want to run for public office
should have a say in how your city or town is run? I don't think you'd care
for that. Yet your contention that those with the quietest voices have no
right to comment on things is rather the same.

Again - of COURSE I understand why the Sibelius thread is on-topic. I also
know the discussion of off-SHSU archiving is (sorta) on-topic. I have no
problem with that. But jeez, even if I was complaining, don't you think it's
less annoying to let people complain in one post than to post back each time
telling them how they don't have the right? That doubles the posts on
nothing.

I saw, in the midst of a 53-post digest, a lonely post with a great
question. The next 53 post digest, 6 hours later, failed to answer it. I
thought that odd, and hoped to help someone get a response, ANY response.
Even a "we don't know." I had hoped to couch it in a humorous vein (which,
again, I apologize that I failed to accomplish) and all I read from you is
post after post of vitriol and sanctimonious attitude.

So please save your big-fish-little-pond ego for someone else. I don't care
to stroke it.

Neal Schermerhorn
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[Finale] Has Finale changed copy protection since Finale 2003?

[Phil Shaw]

I haven't used Finale for several years, and I'm getting
ready to start up again.  Has the copy protection changed
since Finale 2003?   I don't want to upgrade to a version
that e.g. requires me to mount the CD or whatever.

Thanks,

Phil Shaw
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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[D. Keneth Fowler]

Hi Randolph,

I am interested in your Eudora tip. Thanks for sharing.  What is the 
equivalent on a Windows keyboard of the Mac option key?


Ken Fowler

At 09:25 AM 7/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

At 9:25 AM -0400 7/13/05, Eden - Lawrence D. wrote:

I have been wearing out my delete
key recently too,


This is a handy tip for some email programs:

In Eudora, for example, you can option-click on a subject line in the mail 
box and it will quickly select and group all of the same subject together. 
That way you can delete in one pass all of a subject that doesn't interest you.


-Randolph Peters
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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Welcome to the "Finale" mailing list

[Johannes Gebauer]

Phil Daley schrieb:

OK, here's the current list info when you subscribe:


I hvae sort of lost the point of it, though. What was it you were trying 
to say?


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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[Finale] The last system and measure width lock

[A-NO-NE Music]

Phew, man, reading that many posts in English is almost torturing to
me.  I hope I didn't miss anything so my following question won't look
stoopid.  And no, I don't have time to download Sib demo since reading
Finale list takes all day long on my end :-)

Ever since Finale v1.0, my biggest gripe is the last system.

Why Finale doesn't intellectually resize last system according to given
measure(s) size, or there is such option that I can't find?

For one thing, I use Finale to have constant arrangement changes per
gigs, adding section, deleting section, etc.  And parts.  You have to go
through every parts to resize the last system.

I was wondering if there is any reason other Finale users don't want
this feature.

Another one.  I have been asking the ability to lock measure width which
won't be interfered by further note spacing.  Last time I asked this, I
was told not to use auto respace, but that was not my point.  Is this
mean no one wants this feature, too?

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] midi channels assignment

[Eric Dussault]

But i still have to make sure that my Finale is configured so that  
each 16 midi port is connected to a device if I don't want it to  
screw my channels when importing midi. Do I?


Éric Dussault


Le 05-07-13 à 10:43, Allen Fisher a écrit :


Hi Eric,

If you've got each instrument on a separate channel, make sure you  
choose

"Channels become Staves" in the import MIDI file dialog.

HTH,
Allen



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[Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Jonathan Smith]

I did this list years back, at v1.4 and then again after v2. Many of the points as you mention are fixed, some still there, and there are always new ones to moan about.But I don't think these things are a bash at anything. There are 2 good notation applications out there, Finale and Sibelius. They both have their pro and cons and it is in any serious copyist/arranger/composer/publisher's interest to keep up to date on their progress and improvements. Many of us use both side by side in our work, myself included, so it's only healthy to compare. I think it's fantastic that there are so many really knowledgeable people on this list who are willing to talk about all this and pass on valuable information on just about any given aspect of the music engraving business. People pay good money for far less!That said and taking on board the new improvements in v4, Sibelius will never be as fast or accurate as Finale simply because of the methods it employs (see Tyler's post earlier). We all have different uses but the aspects that still annoy me after years of frustration are:Text entries remains 'independent'. If you need to change something it will not be reflected in the other entries as with a Finale _expression_. This steals the thunder on the alt-click copying feature for me.Page layouts are just so inflexible and difficult to work with, almost like the application knows better than you.The page of music moves around the screen with a mind of its own and it jitters. It gives me headaches after a few hours because my eyes are always fighting to keep on track with where I am. (This would never happen with a real 'paper' score on your desk, something that Sib. prided itself on emulating).These points alone steer me into a Finale template every time a new project comes along where I'm free to choose. Who needs it... JonathanI don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks like  it was from version 1.4.  I'm really not sure what relevance it has at this  point.  But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, things that  haven't and things that display an ignorance of how Sibelius works.  Did  you really mean to prolong the already protested Sibelius thread by asking  for this long list to be addressed, or is this just an out-of-date  "Sibelius bash?"  Ken ___
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Re: [Finale] Rights to complain

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:13 PM 7/13/05 -0400, Neal Schermerhorn wrote:
>So please save your big-fish-little-pond ego for someone else. I don't care
>to stroke it.

Please do not stroke *any* fish on this list!

Requisite emoticons: :-)   :-O  =:O

Dennis


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[Finale] System indent

[A-NO-NE Music]

Another wish I have had for long time.

Almost all the chart I do, I have Code or TAG at the end, and I like so
the system spaced down and indented which will catch sight-reader's eye
(I also color-highlight, of course :-).

As you can specify "Start New System", I love to have indent option and
a way to specify the top space.  If this is possible, creating parts
will speedup drastically to me.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] midi channels assignment

[Eric Dussault]

By the way thank you Allen (and  the others who dared to answer)!

Éric Dussault

Le 05-07-13 à 10:43, Allen Fisher a écrit :


Hi Eric,

If you've got each instrument on a separate channel, make sure you  
choose

"Channels become Staves" in the import MIDI file dialog.



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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Aaron Sherber]

At 12:19 PM 07/13/2005, D. Keneth Fowler wrote:
>I am interested in your Eudora tip. Thanks for sharing.  What is the
>equivalent on a Windows keyboard of the Mac option key?

Alt-click for Win Eudora. You can also Alt-click on a sender's name 
to quickly group and select all email in the mailbox from that person.


This requires some recent version of Eudora. I see that you're using 
5.1, which doesn't have this feature. (Latest is 6.2.3)


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Eric Dannewitz]

Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to 
label OT and TAN in the subject header?


Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is 
supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to a 
list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever post 
to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy is 
outrageous.


I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label them 
with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this.



Johannes Gebauer wrote:

My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way 
this list works you are free to go.


The Sibelius issues that were discussed here were directly related to 
Finale.


Even if they weren't, this list has always had a policy of letting OT 
or TAN discussions come and go.


Your only post I can find in the 7000 or so Finale list messages I 
still have on my computer is the one from last night. How dare you 
join an existing community with a complaint!


(Do you also go to dinner parties complaining about the conversation 
before you even introduce yourself?)


Johannes



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Re: [Finale] Rights to complain

[Johannes Gebauer]

Neal Schermerhorn schrieb:

That said, what right do I have to complain? As much right as you have to
complain - which you have been doing lately with aplomb.


Ay?


See, we're members of an email list. Some members are really knowledgeable
and have a lot to offer. Others are less so, but pipe up when they have a
question or suggestion. Others still are readers who post rarely. But each
is a member of the community.

Would you suggest that only the people who want to run for public office
should have a say in how your city or town is run? I don't think you'd care
for that. Yet your contention that those with the quietest voices have no
right to comment on things is rather the same.

Except that an email list is not a democracy. Compare it to a dinner 
party: Wouldn't it be rude to sit at the table the whole evening not 
saying much at all and then suddenly come out and say stop talking about 
this subject, it's not what I have come for. Rude in my opinion. And a 
dinner party is even a bad example, as you don't have a delete button.


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Phil Daley]

Just click the header, no "option key" required.  It's just Windows ;-)

At 7/13/2005 12:19 PM, D. Keneth Fowler wrote:

>Hi Randolph,
>
>I am interested in your Eudora tip. Thanks for sharing.  What is the
>equivalent on a Windows keyboard of the Mac option key?
>
>Ken Fowler
>
>At 09:25 AM 7/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 9:25 AM -0400 7/13/05, Eden - Lawrence D. wrote:
>>>I have been wearing out my delete
>>>key recently too,
>>
>>This is a handy tip for some email programs:
>>
>>In Eudora, for example, you can option-click on a subject line in the mail
>>box and it will quickly select and group all of the same subject together.
>>That way you can delete in one pass all of a subject that doesn't interest
>you.
>>

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Welcome to the "Finale" mailing list

[Phil Daley]

At 7/13/2005 12:15 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

>Phil Daley schrieb:
>> OK, here's the current list info when you subscribe:
>
>I hvae sort of lost the point of it, though. What was it you were trying
>to say?

D Fenton said he didn't know what the current subscriber info had to say on 
privacy, ie. nothing.


Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Phil Daley]

Just clicking on the "header" works fine in V5.

At 7/13/2005 12:47 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote:

>At 12:19 PM 07/13/2005, D. Keneth Fowler wrote:
> >I am interested in your Eudora tip. Thanks for sharing.  What is the
> >equivalent on a Windows keyboard of the Mac option key?
>
>Alt-click for Win Eudora. You can also Alt-click on a sender's name
>to quickly group and select all email in the mailbox from that person.
>
>This requires some recent version of Eudora. I see that you're using
>5.1, which doesn't have this feature. (Latest is 6.2.3)

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Phil Daley]

At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

>Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to
>label OT and TAN in the subject header?

The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN.

Get a life.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[Stephen Peters]

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> At 06:51 AM 7/13/05 -0400, dhbailey wrote:
>>I think that speedy entry in Finale, where you can work along without a 
>>mouse once you have clicked to enter the editing frame, and you use only 
>>the computer keyboard without the numeric keypad, isn't quite possible 
>>in Sibelius.
>
> I see. This is the feature I use 100% for note/rest input, and once the
> speedy frame is chosen, I never touch the mouse except when the bass-clef
> bug bites.

Ditto here.  This is probably the thing keeping me in Finale the most
these days, since I find the speedy entry to be such a marvelous tool
for entering data, and I just can't make my mind work in the mode
required for Sibelius (or Finale's Speedy Entry, for that matter).

-- 
Stephen L. Peters  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  GPG fingerprint: A1BF 5A81 03E7 47CE 71E0  3BD4 8DA6 9268 5BB6 4BBE
 "I'm through accepting limits, 'cause someone says they're so.  Some
  things I cannot change, but 'til I try I'll never know." -- Wicked
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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Jari Williamsson]

Johannes Gebauer wrote:

My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way 
this list works you are free to go.


I go.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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[Finale] [TAN] Eudora sorting

[Aaron Sherber]

At 01:09 PM 07/13/2005, Phil Daley wrote:
>Just click the header, no "option key" required.  It's just Windows ;-)

Phil, that sorts the whole mailbox by whatever column you click on. 
In recent versions of Eudora, if you Alt-click on a *particular* 
subject or sender, Eudora will quickly group and select all matching 
emails without changing the rest of the sort. If you close and open 
the mailbox, your previous sort is still valid.


This may or may not be something that's useful to you. I have found 
it useful in ways that re-sorting the mailbox is not.


Aaron.

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[Finale] Eudora column sorting

[Phil Daley]

At 7/13/2005 01:17 PM, Phil Daley wrote:

>Just clicking on the "header" works fine in V5.

I just did a test.

click, CTRL-click, or ALT-click sorts the list forwards.

SHIFT-click sorts the list backwards.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Has Finale changed copy protection since Finale 2003?

[dhbailey]

Phil Shaw wrote:


I haven't used Finale for several years, and I'm getting
ready to start up again.  Has the copy protection changed
since Finale 2003?   I don't want to upgrade to a version
that e.g. requires me to mount the CD or whatever.

Thanks,

Phil Shaw
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The current copy protection scheme requires you to register with 
MakeMusic, after you have installed the software on your computer.  The 
computer will give you a specific ID number, which it generates based on 
 several things, such as motherboard, processor type/speed, installed 
ram, hard drive space, OS, and some other things it checks for.  You 
provide that number to MakeMusic and they give you a responding number 
to enter in the appropriate blank and all is well until you change 
enough different hardware aspects of your computer that Finale thinks 
it's on a different machine and then you need to contact MakeMusic again.


This is all done transparently over the internet if you wish, or you can 
physically call MakeMusic and then enter the number manually.


Should you change hardware or otherwise require a re-install, you can 
contact MakeMusic and they are very courteous in allowing you to 
continue to have 2 installs (as the license allows), rather than eating 
one just because you had to change motherboards or something.


But you don't have to have the CD in the drive, or answer any foolish 
question which can only be looked up in some specific printing of the 
manual or any other nonsense.


It's about the most painless scheme but the one hangup which has 
bothered many on this list is the lack of a public escrow of the 
installation key so that should MakeMusic go out of business and their 
assets not be purchased, we could continue to use the software even if 
we needed new installations.


Sibelius uses the same sort of protection scheme.  Others (Notion in the 
notation field) have moved to an iLok system which requires a USB key to 
be inserted in the USB drive before the program will run in anything 
other than demo mode.  The cost to replace a lost iLok or repair a 
broken/malfunctioning iLok is way to expensive and I hope MakeMusic 
never tries it with us, or I will remain on the last version prior to 
the iLok, forever, and they won't get any more of my money.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[dhbailey]

Eric Dannewitz wrote:

Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to 
label OT and TAN in the subject header?


Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is 
supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to a 
list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever post 
to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy is 
outrageous.


I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label them 
with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this.




Every applicable post has had Sibelius in the subject line.  Is that 
really OT, since most of them were comparing how Sibelius did something 
with how Finale does something?  If Finale is discussed in the message 
or the thread, how can it be OT or TAN?


Having people who don't participate in a regular way all of a sudden 
chirp up and say "I don't like the way this conversation is going, 
change it please so I can learn more about Finale" does nothing to 
change the conversation.  It's like standing around at a cocktail party, 
saying nothing but listening to everything and saying "I'm bored with 
your conversation, change it please."  Try it face to face and see the 
reaction you'd get.


It also show that the complainer thinks this list is provided for people 
to just monitor and get what they can from it without responding and 
helping others, as if there were a core of Finale power users who are 
somehow paid to sit around and discuss how to use the program.


People, the way to change the conversation on an e-mail list isn't to 
complain about it -- ASK A QUESTION!


Wanna get the thread back to some area of Finale that you want help 
with, ASK ABOUT IT!


Complaining does nothing, although all members of this list are as free 
to complain about things, just as free as others are to complain about 
the complaints.


But rather than attacking anybody, if you want a conversation to change 
direction, do it yourself.


There have been several interesting questions posed which are generating 
answers, all have been questions about Finale, not complaints about the 
way threads have gone recently.





--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Has Finale changed copy protection since Finale 2003?

[YATESLAWRENCE]

In a message dated 13/07/2005 18:38:26 GMT Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

"they give you a responding number 
to enter in the appropriate blank  and all is well until you change 
enough different hardware aspects of your  computer that Finale thinks 
it's on a different machine"
 

Does this mean, then, that so long as you don't go on the internet (or  if 
you delete the relevant cookie) you can input the security number onto any  
machine and it will work?  (Not that I'm suggesting that anyone do  this.)

All the best,

Lawrence

"þaes ofereode - þisses swa  maeg"

http://lawrenceyates.co.uk
Dulcian Wind Quintet:  http://dulcianwind.co.uk
 

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Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Christopher Smith]

On Jul 13, 2005, at 9:49 AM, Ken Durling wrote:

I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks 
like it was from version 1.4.  I'm really not sure what relevance it 
has at this point.  But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, 
things that haven't and things that display an ignorance of how 
Sibelius works.  Did you really mean to prolong the already protested 
Sibelius thread by asking for this long list to be addressed, or is 
this just an out-of-date "Sibelius bash?"


Ken



Actually, when this list appeared some Sibelius owners DID go through 
it point by point. Some points turned out to have merit, some were 
misunderstandings, and some were fixed in the next version. It was very 
informative (despite the negative tone) and I got a lot out of it, 
especially since I have to deal with some students who use Sibelius and 
don't know how to do some things.


And I don't care if a thread is protested or not. It's not promoting 
Nazism, child abuse, or anything harmful - it's comparing two rival 
pieces of software!


Protests be darned!

Christopher



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Re: [Finale] Has Finale changed copy protection since Finale 2003?

[Darcy James Argue]

On 13 Jul 2005, at 1:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Does this mean, then, that so long as you don't go on the internet (or 
 if
you delete the relevant cookie) you can input the security number onto 
any

machine and it will work?


No.  Like David said, the code itself is based on your machine's unique 
characteristics (MAC address, etc).  It only works on your computer.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] Has Finale changed copy protection since Finale 2003?

[dhbailey]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 13/07/2005 18:38:26 GMT Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


"they give you a responding number 
to enter in the appropriate blank  and all is well until you change 
enough different hardware aspects of your  computer that Finale thinks 
it's on a different machine"
 

Does this mean, then, that so long as you don't go on the internet (or  if 
you delete the relevant cookie) you can input the security number onto any  
machine and it will work?  (Not that I'm suggesting that anyone do  this.)




No, that number is generated by a program at makemusic, in direct 
response to the number that the Finale installation generates on your 
specific computer.


The way I know this is that I had to change my hard drive and at the 
same time I moved up to WinXP.  I tried to use the original number from 
MakeMusic to re-install Finale and it wouldn't accept it.


The number you provide MakeMusic is specifically generated for your 
machine somehow (maybe even to the point of being placed in the 
registry) and needs the specific MakeMusic generated answering number in 
order to let the software work.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Finale] copy protection problems OT

[YATESLAWRENCE]

Thanks David,
 
The reason I was asking was related not to Finale but, since you mention 
it, to Windows XP which seems to operate a similar system.  
 
I bought the professional version for one of my machines and stupidly 
installed it on the wrong one (too small memory).  I then installed it on 
the correct machine, verified it with Microsoft, then found that I couldn't get 
into my other machine to uninstall it without a verification number from 
Microsoft.
 
Ah well, I'll sort it eventually.
 
All the best,
 
Lawrence
 
"þaes 
ofereode - þisses swa maeg"http://lawrenceyates.co.ukDulcian 
Wind Quintet: http://dulcianwind.co.uk
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Re: [Finale] Beams over rests

[Mark D Lew]

On Jul 13, 2005, at 1:52 AM, Lee Actor wrote:

I don't think that works in the case of four 16ths where the first and 
last

are rests.  Or maybe I don't understand your method?


You're right.  I didn't realize you were asking for the rests to be at 
the end of the beam.


In that case, I'd do a similar two-layer approach.  In this case skip 
the tuplet tool and instead use the Special Tools to make the outer 
notes invisible -- that is, change their notehead and stems to a blank 
character.  Then use the other layer to supply the rests.


mdl

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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Eric Dannewitz]

Yes, some of it was. When people start asking HOW to do stuff in 
Sibelius, then it becomes not related.


Phil Daley wrote:


At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

>Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to
>label OT and TAN in the subject header?

The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN.

Get a life.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] Eudora column sorting

[Eric Dannewitz]

Wow, perhaps you need to label this OT or TAN? No no, that would be 
getting a life. And that would be polite to the list...


Phil Daley wrote:


At 7/13/2005 01:17 PM, Phil Daley wrote:

>Just clicking on the "header" works fine in V5.

I just did a test.

click, CTRL-click, or ALT-click sorts the list forwards.

SHIFT-click sorts the list backwards.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] [TAN] Eudora sorting

[Eric Dannewitz]

Thank you! Someone who can respect the list. Woohoo.

On the Eudora thing, you could also set up a filter to highlight and 
flag TAN or other subjects to make them stand out from the rest of the 
messages.


Aaron Sherber wrote:


At 01:09 PM 07/13/2005, Phil Daley wrote:
>Just click the header, no "option key" required.  It's just Windows ;-)

Phil, that sorts the whole mailbox by whatever column you click on. In 
recent versions of Eudora, if you Alt-click on a *particular* subject 
or sender, Eudora will quickly group and select all matching emails 
without changing the rest of the sort. If you close and open the 
mailbox, your previous sort is still valid.


This may or may not be something that's useful to you. I have found it 
useful in ways that re-sorting the mailbox is not.


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Christopher Smith]

On Jul 13, 2005, at 2:27 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

Yes, some of it was. When people start asking HOW to do stuff in 
Sibelius, then it becomes not related.


Phil Daley wrote:


At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

>Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though 
to

>label OT and TAN in the subject header?

The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN.



I disagree. We find out how to do stuff in Sib to see how it compares 
to Finale (which we supposedly already know.)


Plenty enough on topic for me.

Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Finale 2006 upgrade price

[Raymond Horton]

Please excuse me for barging in with a Finale question,  but:

For a sucker, err, "early adopter" like myself, who just can't bear to 
have a new version of Finale come out without exploring the new features 
for himself (plus, I have an excuse in that Cimarron Music always 
upgrades right away, so there would be the loss of a yearly 
double-figure income in brass arrangement royalties RIGHT THERE) - is 
the upgrade price of $99 the lowest I can get?  Are there any promo 
codes in the mailings that I should look for, or any thing else that 
could save me a few bucks on this upgrade?


Thanks for any help.

Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist,
occasional arranger and composer,
Louisville Orchestra
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2006 upgrade price

[Mariposa Symphony Orchestra]

The only 'deal' I've seen offered is the $99 
offer extended down from 2005 users to also include 2004 users; that requires 
the use of code “FIN6U4” when ordering and this offer expires September 25, 
2005.  
 
And really -- I could have just waited for 
someone else to offer this info, but I'm now terrified of being thought of as a 
lurker so I'll speak up even when I have no idea of an answer...
 
And yes, that WAS a  
joke!   
 
Best, 
 
Les
 
Les MarsdenFounding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa 
Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa?  Ah, Paradise!!!
 
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Raymond 
  Horton 
  To: finale@shsu.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 11:38 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2006 upgrade 
  price
  Please excuse me for barging in with a Finale question, 
   but:For a sucker, err, "early adopter" like myself, who just 
  can't bear to have a new version of Finale come out without exploring the 
  new features for himself (plus, I have an excuse in that Cimarron Music 
  always upgrades right away, so there would be the loss of a yearly 
  double-figure income in brass arrangement royalties RIGHT THERE) - is 
  the upgrade price of $99 the lowest I can get?  Are there any promo 
  codes in the mailings that I should look for, or any thing else that 
  could save me a few bucks on this upgrade?Thanks for any 
  help.Raymond HortonBass Trombonist,occasional arranger and 
  composer,Louisville Orchestra
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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 9:37, Jari Williamsson wrote:

> Richard Smith wrote:
> 
> > These explanations are very wordy but if you play with it, I think
> > you will find Sibelius easy to use without a midi. I work quickly on
> > both my desktop and my laptop without midi. Just give yourself a
> > little time to get adjusted to Sibelius before making a judgment.
> > Finale methods won't work so you have to build new habits.
> 
> What you just described is extremely similar to the Simple Entry
> keyboard method.

With the exception of the extraordinarily confusing entry palette 
that maps the keypad to 5 completely different meanings (about half 
the defaults being things I would never use, ever), depending on the 
MODE.

This is a case where Sibelius is more modal than Finale, and it's a 
bad one, since it causes the meaning of keystroke commands to change 
according to something that can only be identified by looking at the 
screen.

And it's similar to *Simple Entry*, not Speedy using the QWERTY 
keyboard. With the latter, you don't do nearly as much mousing, nor 
do you constantly have to switch modes to get to the shortcuts you 
want.

Of course, some the keypad shortcuts switch to the kinds of modes 
that Finale does have (like the articulations shortcut), so it's 
partially as modal as Finale.

-- 
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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Johannes Gebauer]

Very much related, since the whole point was to point out the 
differences and shortcomings of Finale. It is not only related, it is 
one of the many things that this list is concerned with.


Johannes

Eric Dannewitz schrieb:
Yes, some of it was. When people start asking HOW to do stuff in 
Sibelius, then it becomes not related.


Phil Daley wrote:


At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

>Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to
>label OT and TAN in the subject header?

The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN.

Get a life.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley




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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Johannes Gebauer]

Eric Dannewitz schrieb:
Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to 
label OT and TAN in the subject header?


The Sibelius discussion was neither TAN nor OT, and it has Sibelius in 
the subject header. It was spot on topic.


Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is 
supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to a 
list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever post 
to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy is 
outrageous.


I don't think I ever said anything against people who subscribe but 
don't post - and there is nothing wrong with that. But I don't like the 
attitude of people lurking, and then coming out of the dark and complain 
about other people's postings. That's outrageous. I appologize if my 
comment sounded too harsh, but I do somehow feel that complaints from 
people on this list, who have nothing else to say but complaints are 
somewhat disqualified.


I don't think I have ever refused to help people with their Finale 
related problems.




I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label them 
with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this.


Again, it was neither TAN not OT, it was right on topic.

Johannes
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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Johannes Gebauer]

Well, that's unfortunate.

Johannes

Jari Williamsson schrieb:

Johannes Gebauer wrote:

My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way 
this list works you are free to go.



I go.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Re: [Finale] The last system and measure width lock

[Johannes Gebauer]

A-NO-NE Music schrieb:

Ever since Finale v1.0, my biggest gripe is the last system.

Why Finale doesn't intellectually resize last system according to given
measure(s) size, or there is such option that I can't find?


No, as far as I know there is no such feature. I myself would never use 
it, but I see that your mileage is different.
However, you might want to use TGTools incipits to at least manually do 
what you want. This command readjusts the width of the selected system 
to reflect the measure width arrived at through spacing. Not really what 
you are after, but still worth mentioning.


For one thing, I use Finale to have constant arrangement changes per
gigs, adding section, deleting section, etc.  And parts.  You have to go
through every parts to resize the last system.

I was wondering if there is any reason other Finale users don't want
this feature.

The reason for me is that any publication I have seen would not do it 
this way. Instead the spacing throughout the piece will have to be 
tweaked, so that the last system holds a proportional amount of music - 
and not just a single measure.



Another one.  I have been asking the ability to lock measure width which
won't be interfered by further note spacing.  Last time I asked this, I
was told not to use auto respace, but that was not my point.  Is this
mean no one wants this feature, too?



I don't know a way to do this either, and wouldn't have much use for it.

Johannes
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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[Darcy James Argue]

On 13 Jul 2005, at 1:19 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote:


Johannes Gebauer wrote:

My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way 
this list works you are free to go.


I go.


Well, sorry to hear that.  Why?  (And why now?)

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 7:00, Phil Daley wrote:

> At 7/12/2005 03:49 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
>  >Consider the difference between posting to any unmoderated Usenet
>  >group and posting to the Finale list. > >It's a *huge* difference.
> 
> I guess you need to explain why there is ANY difference, other than
> having to subscribe ahead of time.
> 
> Since ANYONE can subscribe, how is it any different?

1. because there *is* a listowner who can police a mailing list

2. because there is an affirmative subscription process by which you 
agree to the terms of the list.

3. all messages for a mailing list originate with one server, whereas 
Usenet messages originate on thousands of different servers, with no 
central point of distribution. This is why 1) is possible.

>  >I note that there don't seem to be any explicit Finale list terms of
>  >service accessible from
>  >http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale. It was so long ago
>  >that I subscribed that I don't believe I have the terms of service
>  >you get when you subscribe. I think it would be helpful to have
>  those >accessible from the listinfo page (based on my past
>  experiencing >administering a mailman mailing list, I know that part
>  of the content >of that page is configurable by the list
>  administrator).
> 
> Here you go:

Well, I see there are actually no terms of service in there.

Perhaps it's time to add those? Perhaps something like:

"Subscribers may not republish content posted on the mailing list 
without permission of the authors."

-- 
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RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 8:29, ronan wrote:

> Is this how it works here? Only well-known names are allowed to
> publish complaints? If anyone else does, they are "lurkers" and
> "thread cops"?

You are being taken to task not because you've posted, but because 
you're complaining about what other people are posting, in a case 
where the posts you're complaining about are quite relevant to the 
subject of the list, even if they are of no interest to you, 
personally.

There are lots of Mac-specific posts to this list, and those are of 
no use to me. I just delete them. Sometimes long threads erupt on 
subjects that interest me none at all. I just delete them. I don't 
feel any urge to lecture the list membership on how they aren't 
posting things that interest ME-ME-ME!

Last of all, the people who are participating most actively in the 
threads you think irrelevant to Finale are also the exact same people 
who contribute the most to Finale-specific threads.

So far as I know, all *you* contribute is complaints about what other 
people post. 

So, comparing track records, I'd certainly cut some slack to people 
who post lots of useful information and occasionally go off on 
subjects that bore me to tears. I see no reason to cut any slack for 
someone whose only known appearances on the list are to register 
complaints about the content that everyone else is providing for the 
complainer.

If you find the current threads on the list boring, START THREADS ON 
TOPICS THAT ARE OF INTEREST TO YOU.

Otherwise, you're just going to generate scolding posts like this 
one, pointing out how enormously childish you are being by 
complaining and contributing nothing constructive.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
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[Finale] OT: Ensemble promotion help

[Johannes Gebauer]

Hi,

Boy am I going to make myself unpopular now.

I need help. I need to redesign my Ensemble's promotional material, and
I need to do it very soon. I wonder whether anyone on this list would be
happy to share some tips on how to design a (successful) folder/brochure
which can be sent to concert venues or the like, or may even be able to
share such a thing as PDF - obviously I don't want to copy it, I just
need some ideas on how to do it.

Please answer off-list, this is off-topic, and there is no need to
clutter the list with it.

For what it is worth, we are a chamber group on period instruments,
mainly doing late baroque to classical music for a variety of ensembles.

Thanks for any help,

Johannes

PS: If anyone has some contact addresses they would share and think may
have a chance, please go ahead! We are based in Germany, but I like
traveling!



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Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 6:49, Ken  Durling wrote:

> I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks
> like it was from version 1.4.  I'm really not sure what relevance it
> has at this point.  But at a glance I see things that have been fixed,
> things that haven't and things that display an ignorance of how
> Sibelius works.  Did you really mean to prolong the already protested
> Sibelius thread by asking for this long list to be addressed, or is
> this just an out-of-date "Sibelius bash?"

Well, I, for one, would like to see a point-by-point response to each 
of the items. Maybe somebody could do something like:

Fixed after 1.4:  
1, 9, 10, 12, 15, etc.

Misunderstanding of how to use Sibelius:
8, 17, 21, etc.

Remaining issues:
5, 6, 23, 42, etc.

And any that an experienced Sibelius user wanted to comment at length 
on, I'd be all ears. 

-- 
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Re: [Finale] The last system and measure width lock

[A-NO-NE Music]

Johannes Gebauer / 2005/07/13 / 03:16 PM wrote:

>The reason for me is that any publication I have seen would not do it 
>this way. Instead the spacing throughout the piece will have to be 
>tweaked, so that the last system holds a proportional amount of music - 
>and not just a single measure.

I see, but then I am curious what you do when your last system stretches
each measure beyond reasonable space?

>> Another one.  I have been asking the ability to lock measure width which
>> won't be interfered by further note spacing.  Last time I asked this, I
>> was told not to use auto respace, but that was not my point.  Is this
>> mean no one wants this feature, too?
>> 
>
>I don't know a way to do this either, and wouldn't have much use for it.

Would you care to elaborate why you won't use such feature?  It might
help for me to understand why Coda has not responded my 17 years old
request :-)

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Rights to complain

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 12:13, Neal Schermerhorn wrote:

> Again - of COURSE I understand why the Sibelius thread is on-topic. I
> also know the discussion of off-SHSU archiving is (sorta) on-topic. I
> have no problem with that. But jeez, even if I was complaining, don't
> you think it's less annoying to let people complain in one post than
> to post back each time telling them how they don't have the right?
> That doubles the posts on nothing.

If you'd not complained the number of posts on NOTHING would have 
been exactly ZERO. 

You admit that your complaint had no basis, since you agree that the 
two topics are on-topic within the definitions of "on-topic" for this 
mailing list.

Thus, your choice to post a complaint about those threads translates 
into "THESE THREADS BORE ME!!! PLEASE POST ONLY THINGS THAT ARE OF 
INTEREST TO ME-ME-ME!"

So, if anyone looks like a dick here, it ain't Johannes.

-- 
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Re: [Finale] The last system and measure width lock

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 12:22, A-NO-NE Music wrote:

> Another one.  I have been asking the ability to lock measure width
> which won't be interfered by further note spacing.  Last time I asked
> this, I was told not to use auto respace, but that was not my point. 
> Is this mean no one wants this feature, too?

I wish there were a number of things that could be locked and not 
changed:

1. manual spacing

2. cautionary accidentals

3. manual beaming breaks

All of these edits, despite my having explicitly told Finale I want 
to override the defaults, are volatile and get blown away by the 
simplest changes. Numbers 2 & 3 really oughtn't get overriden at all, 
and your request, for the ability to lock a measure's spacing, would 
be a very good thing. If that were combined with the addition of a 
spacing metatool keyboard modifier to force-override that locked 
spacing (such as ctrl-4), that would be even better.

-- 
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Re: [Finale] OT: graphics in MS word

[Burt Fenner]

I would guess that if you viewed the document in HTML the source of the 
graphic would be shown.


BF

shirling & neueweise wrote:


does anyone know of a way to find out the file name of a graphic which 
has been inserted into a word doc?  i can find all the info on its 
placement, adjustments etc. via the contextual menu "format picture", 
but not the file name!


since edits to an external graphics file are not reflected in the word 
document, i wonder if graphic files are not linked, but rather imported 
into the word doc through insertion?  if so, is there a way to link 
rather than import, so that changes can be made to the source graphic 
file which will then show in the word doc?


jef

PS i know the real answer is to NOT use word... but sometimes i have to 
for score legends etc.



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Re: [Finale] The ultimate Sibelius question...

[Tyler Turner]

--- Dan Carno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 03:52 AM 7/13/2005, you wrote:
> >Sibelius asks that you
> >define these properties of a note before you enter
> the
> >note itself.
> 
> Not true.  I use Sibelius (as well as Finale)
> regularly, and I never input 
> in this manner.  I always enter the notes first and
> then everything else 
> afterwards.

We were specifically discussing the simultaneous entry
of notes and other elements. And I was talking about
more than just articulations and expressions. Sibelius
DOES ask you to specify the accidentals and
augmentation dots before entering the notes. This is
not optional unless you backtrack to the note, a
method which is obviously not efficient.

There are good reasons to get good in Finale at
inputting some elements on the fly. I always input
clef changes, time sig changes, and key changes on the
fly from within Simple Entry. And with uncommon
articulations and expressions - the ones that would
leave me hunting back through the score to find the
location of, I also enter these within Simple Entry.
*F to enter a fermata is a reflex for me. As is x4 for
a forte. If I'm entering a lot of articulations or
dynamics, I usually enter them all at once with their
respective tools. But for the occasional one, Simple
Entry is faster.

For anyone who uses the Speedy Entry Caps Lock
(non-MIDI entry), I strongly recommend learning Simple
Entry. There is just no way that Speedy can keep up
with Simple for entry without a MIDI keyboard. It
requires far more keystrokes.

Regards,
Tyler

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Re: [Finale] USB MIDI Interface (was: Sibelius version 4 has dynamic score/parts linking!)

[A-NO-NE Music]

Darcy James Argue / 2005/07/07 / 07:14 PM wrote:

>I agree, USB 1.1 is inadequate for MIDI + everything else, but that's 
>why the pros get a FireWire or USB 2 MIDI interface.

Boy, takes long time to go through all the list traffic :-)

Just for the record, USB 1.1 was fine in my MIDI setup.  My MTP/AV USB
offers time stamping to compensate latency.  I even had scanner and all
the stuff to powered USB hub while getting orchestra sequencing job done
with two K2600Rs and a QSR.  It was when my main studio machine was
still Dual-450.

My PB has FastLane (much less Time Stamp resolution), which also never
gave me any MIDI problem.

However, CoreMIDI driver was not that rock solid until Panther.  It was
almost there by Jaguar but Panther nailed it.  If you still get latency
even using MIDI Time Stamping, that means your MIDI module is causing
it, but not the host.

Getting 3rd party serial interface isn't worth it.  All the vendors will
sure create modem driver, but not all will create MIDI driver.  Keyspan
abandoned MIDI driver, leaving their serial adapter customers who were
using for MIDI left in cold.  Other PCI vendors such as GeeThree seems
to committed to MIDI driver, but they always suffer when OS upgrade
since every time CoreMIDI Framework changes.

For the original poster (don't even remember who that was), I too had
experienced such terrible Speed Entry latency but that was a few FinMac
versions ago, and I had to wait till the next upgrade (or was it a
patch?).  It has not happened since then.

To me, it was nothing to do with the interface, but inefficient Finale
thread priority was fighting with something else.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] The last system and measure width lock

[Johannes Gebauer]

David W. Fenton schrieb:


2. cautionary accidentals


I thought they were locked in versions since about Fin2k. You can tell 
by a "*" appearing in the Speedy frame when the cursor is on that note 
(and pitch). This is pretty stable. In earlier versions you had to 
manually invoke this condition by pressing option-* (on Mac).


3. manual beaming breaks

I think from 2k4 or 2k5 on manual beaming breaks don't get destroyed 
that easily anymore. It still happens, but there seems to be some kind 
of improvement, which I believe was mentioned in some update blurp. 
Perhaps worth investigating.


Johannes

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[Finale] 2006/GPO

[Lee Actor]

Can anyone who is currently using GPO with Finale 2005 tell me how useful
from a practical standpoint the subset of GPO that is shipping with Finale
2006 is compared to the full version?  In other words, how much do you
depend on the patches not included with the partial version for decent
results?

Also, does getting good results from GPO depend in some degree on using
Human Playback?  I tried it when it first came out and decided I could get
better results doing my own "humanizing", without the performance hit (or
maybe I've just spent too much time with Finale's MIDI tool over the years).
TIA.

Lee Actor
Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic
http://www.leeactor.com


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Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 9:50, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

> Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though
> to label OT and TAN in the subject header?

Yes, for OT or TAN posts. Neither the Sibelius or the archiving 
threads are either OT or TAN. The Sibelius thread was about the 
future of Finale, since everything in it boiled down to comparisons 
to Finale and how it works. The archiving thread is neither OT or 
TAN. Some mailing lists use a META abbreviation to indicate threads 
that are on topics that are larger issues than the usual topic-
specific discussion. I wish it had occurred to me to use the META tag 
when I posted the first message on the archiving issue.

In any event, both threads exhibited good subject discipline, in that 
all the Sibelius threads included "Sibelius" in the subject, and the 
archiving thread was limited to two different subject headings, 
easily identifiable after seeing the first couple of messages. 

> Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is
> supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to
> a list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever
> post to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy
> is outrageous.

The problem is not the paucity of someone's posts. It's the nature of 
the posts that *have* been made, which on this subject seem pretty 
much limited to complaints about other people's posts.

> I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label
> them with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this.

A post requesting that would have been a much useful addition to the 
list than mere complaints about the topics.

-- 
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Re: [Finale] Has Finale changed copy protection since Finale 2003?

[David W. Fenton]

On 13 Jul 2005 at 14:04, dhbailey wrote:

> The number you provide MakeMusic is specifically generated for your
> machine somehow (maybe even to the point of being placed in the
> registry) and needs the specific MakeMusic generated answering number
> in order to let the software work.

My guess is that it's generated and not stored.

Microsoft's activation process works the same way, and is pretty 
fully documented. It derives certain data from the OS and hardware 
that you have on your machine and encodes it in a form that is then 
combined with all the other data derived from other devices. An 
algorithm then converts this data to the code that you provide to the 
software manufacturer, who then runs that number through a piece of 
software that generates a number that registers your software and 
unlocks whatever features were previously blocked.

I'm pretty sure the calculated number that profiles your system is 
not stored, but re-calculated each time you run the software.

In order that insignificant changes to a system not unregister your 
softwere, the whole algorithm for constructing this number does not 
use unique results, but classes of results. For instance, the 
component that represents your network card may use only the 
beginning numbers of its MAC address, since those encode the 
manufacturer. The result would be that you could swap in a different 
NIC by the same manufacturer and not invalidate your registration.

Microsoft's Windows activation codes require changes to 2 or 3 
components before invalidatig registration. My guess is that Finale's 
would also be equally forgiving of system changes.

None of this changes my basic objection to such activation schemes 
when there is no key escrow provision.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved

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[Finale] Feature Request: Copy Dialog

[A-NO-NE Music]

Another one I have been asking for last 17 years.

I am a Shift+Opt(alt)+Click guy since Cmd(Ctrl)+C/V was no available in
early Finale ages.  I have always wanted to have one more key combi to
Shift+Opt(alt)+Click so you get the "what items to paste (not copy at
this point obviously)" dialog, so you can avoid going to menu prior to
copying.

Anyone with me on this?

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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