Re: [Finale] OT: Spotlight causing sluggishness?

[Karen]

Well, as they sayif it ain't broke...:-)

-K


To be honest (and to go off the beaten path a bit), I'm not altogether
certain that I even *want* Tiger. Quicksilver is better than
Spotlight, even though I'm stuck at a version Blacktree codenamed
"Pariah" due to my "upgrade lag," and Konfabulator is just about the
same as Dashboard.


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Raymond Horton]

Darcy James Argue écrit:


I had the opposite instinct -- that a parenthesized courtesy
accidental on a tied note at the beginning of a measure would not
carry through the measure



But what if you don't use parentheses? Then it would carry through. 
One more reason for not having them...


Dennis

Some 19th Century composers, most prominently Berlioz and Verdi, 
followed this norm in their music.  They normally repeated the tied 
accidental on the downbeat, which then carried through the bar.  I have 
observed it in instrumental music of these composers many, many times.

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Re: [Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Darcy James Argue]

Hey Aaron,

Sent offlist -- Mac VST version.  The Mac AU version -- the one that  
works with Finale -- has a completely different UI, it looks nothing  
like the Windows version.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 08 Sep 2005, at 8:28 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote:


Darcy, take a look at the screen shot in the docs:

http://www.garritan.com/support/Ambience-readme.pdf

That's what my screen looks like -- no menu anywhere. Can you post  
a Mac screenshot?


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Aaron Sherber]

At 07:57 PM 09/08/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>Does the factory preset menu appear at all? On the VST version of
>Ambience for Mac, it's located in the bottom-left corner. Is the menu
>there, but empty? Are the choices grayed-out? Or is it not there at all.

I see no menu at all, and I've clicked and right-clicked all over the form.

Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Aaron Sherber]

Darcy, take a look at the screen shot in the docs:

http://www.garritan.com/support/Ambience-readme.pdf

That's what my screen looks like -- no menu anywhere. Can you post a 
Mac screenshot?


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] US copyright question

[kdurling]

So the Mahler was out of copyright I guess...

Boy, I really need to go back and listen to that again!  

Ken


> ok, i checked it out. here's what you'll find in the full score of this
> masterpiece, written for and commissioned by the new york philharmonic. and
> it's dedicated to leaonard bernstein.
> 
> -
> We would like to express our cordial thanks to the following publishers and
> persons for allowing the use of quotations:
> Boosey & Hawkes Ltd., London (Stravinsky Agon, Sacre du Printemps, Strauss
> Der Rosenkavalier for all countries with the exception of Germany, Italy,
> Portugal and USSR);
> Durand & Cie., Paris (Debussy La mer, Ravel Dapnis et Cloe, La valse);
> Furstner Ltd., London (Strauss Der Rosenkavalier for the territories of
> Germany, Italy, Portugal and USSR);
> B. Schott's Sohne, Mainz (Hindemith Kammermusik IV)
> Dr. Franz Strauss
> Igor Strawinsky
> 
> We also thank Mr. Claude Levi-Strauss for permitting the use of an excerpt
> from his work Le cru et le cuit.
> -
> 
> hope this helps,
> best,
> marcelo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Is collaging fair usage? Specifically, consider Berio's *Sinfonia*,
> > which quotes numerous copyrighted works without any notice of written
> > permission to use any of them.
> >
> > I'm  not talking about outright parody, wh. is definitely fair usage in
> > the US, but merely the use of recognizable fragments of copyrighted
> > works in a patchwork to make something new. The various court cases
> > involving sampling would strongly suggest that such practices are *not*
> > fair usage--but then how explain the Berio?
> >
> > Andrew Stiller
> > Kallisti Music Press
> > http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Aaron Sherber]

At 08:13 PM 09/08/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>Is it possible to save and load custom reverb settings in the Windows
>version?

Not unless there's an invisible Save button!

(Now I *really* feel good about my purchase. )

Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Aaron Sherber]

At 07:51 PM 09/08/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>1) Can this be solved by downloaded and installing the latest version
>of Ambience?

Doesn't look like it.

>2) If not, do the presets work in GPO Studio (included with full GPO)?

I don't have full GPO.

Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] US copyright question

[M. Perticone]

ok, i checked it out. here's what you'll find in the full score of this
masterpiece, written for and commissioned by the new york philharmonic. and
it's dedicated to leaonard bernstein.

-
We would like to express our cordial thanks to the following publishers and
persons for allowing the use of quotations:
Boosey & Hawkes Ltd., London (Stravinsky Agon, Sacre du Printemps, Strauss
Der Rosenkavalier for all countries with the exception of Germany, Italy,
Portugal and USSR);
Durand & Cie., Paris (Debussy La mer, Ravel Dapnis et Cloe, La valse);
Furstner Ltd., London (Strauss Der Rosenkavalier for the territories of
Germany, Italy, Portugal and USSR);
B. Schott's Sohne, Mainz (Hindemith Kammermusik IV)
Dr. Franz Strauss
Igor Strawinsky

We also thank Mr. Claude Levi-Strauss for permitting the use of an excerpt
from his work Le cru et le cuit.
-

hope this helps,
best,
marcelo





> Is collaging fair usage? Specifically, consider Berio's *Sinfonia*,
> which quotes numerous copyrighted works without any notice of written
> permission to use any of them.
>
> I'm  not talking about outright parody, wh. is definitely fair usage in
> the US, but merely the use of recognizable fragments of copyrighted
> works in a patchwork to make something new. The various court cases
> involving sampling would strongly suggest that such practices are *not*
> fair usage--but then how explain the Berio?
>
> Andrew Stiller
> Kallisti Music Press
> http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
>
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


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Re: [Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Darcy James Argue]

A further question:

Is it possible to save and load custom reverb settings in the Windows  
version?


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Re: [Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Darcy James Argue]

One more question:

Does the factory preset menu appear at all? On the VST version of  
Ambience for Mac, it's located in the bottom-left corner. Is the menu  
there, but empty? Are the choices grayed-out? Or is it not there at all.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 08 Sep 2005, at 7:51 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

A while back on this list, it was reported that the Windows version  
of the Ambience plugin included with Finale did not allow you to  
choose any of the presets (Ballroom, Concert Hall, etc).


To the WinFin2006 users out there, I have a few questions about  
this bug:


1) Can this be solved by downloaded and installing the latest  
version of Ambience?


http://www.garritan.com/support/Garritan_Ambience.dll

2) If not, do the presets work in GPO Studio (included with full GPO)?

3) If installing the latest version of Ambience *does* solve the  
problem, does it also cause Ambience to become disabled when  
opening a Finale document that uses the earlier version (for  
instance, the Finale 2006 default files)?


Thanks in advance for the info.

Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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[Finale] Ambience Plugin in Windows

[Darcy James Argue]

A while back on this list, it was reported that the Windows version  
of the Ambience plugin included with Finale did not allow you to  
choose any of the presets (Ballroom, Concert Hall, etc).


To the WinFin2006 users out there, I have a few questions about this  
bug:


1) Can this be solved by downloaded and installing the latest version  
of Ambience?


http://www.garritan.com/support/Garritan_Ambience.dll

2) If not, do the presets work in GPO Studio (included with full GPO)?

3) If installing the latest version of Ambience *does* solve the  
problem, does it also cause Ambience to become disabled when opening  
a Finale document that uses the earlier version (for instance, the  
Finale 2006 default files)?


Thanks in advance for the info.

Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Re: [Finale] Text Expr Designer_bug? Fin 2006 (Mac)

[Eric Dussault]

Le 05-09-08 à 09:04, Hans Arktoft a écrit :

Anyone else noticed that Line Spacing is disabled in the Text  
Expression Designer dialog box?
Even if this menu item is available, nothing happens when you try  
to select it (with or without the expression itself highlighted).


I'll report it when / if someone on the list can corfirm it as a bug.

Mac G4 10.3.9 Fin 2006

--
Hans Arktoft
Stockholm, Sweden

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I've also experimented this bug last week, and I will definitely  
write to macsupport to report it.

I'm under Tiger and same result.

Éric Dussault


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Re: [Finale] US copyright question [ot]

[M. Perticone]

hello mr. stiller and listers,

if i recall well, there's a notice acknowledging permission from various
publishers. i don't have it at hand, but i'll check it tomorrow at my
studio.
regards,
marcelo

From: Andrew Stiller

> As long as we're talking about this, there's a question I've wondered
> about for years that maybe someone on this list knows the answer to:
>
> Is collaging fair usage? Specifically, consider Berio's *Sinfonia*,
> which quotes numerous copyrighted works without any notice of written
> permission to use any of them.
>
> I'm  not talking about outright parody, wh. is definitely fair usage in
> the US, but merely the use of recognizable fragments of copyrighted
> works in a patchwork to make something new. The various court cases
> involving sampling would strongly suggest that such practices are *not*
> fair usage--but then how explain the Berio?
>
> Andrew Stiller
> Kallisti Music Press
> http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
>
> ___
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> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


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Re: [Finale] Text Expr Designer_bug? Fin 2006 (Mac)

[Hans Arktoft]

Thank you Christopher, a nice idea that worked perfectly!
/Hans


On Sep 8, 2005, at 9:04 AM, Hans Arktoft wrote:

Anyone else noticed that Line Spacing is disabled in the Text 
Expression Designer dialog box?
Even if this menu item is available, nothing happens when you try to 
select it (with or without the expression itself highlighted).


I'll report it when / if someone on the list can corfirm it as a bug.

Mac G4 10.3.9 Fin 2006



I don't have 2006, but I remember in other apps I have been able to 
fake it by adding a space at the end of a line in a different point 
size, effectively changing the line spacing. This might help you in the 
mean time.


Christopher


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Andrew Stiller]

I had the opposite instinct -- that a parenthesized courtesy 
accidental on a tied note at the beginning of a measure would not 
carry through the measure, and if it's e.g., an Eb, the next Eb in the 
measure would require a (non-courtesy) accidental.


But it would be nice to know what others do in this situation.

- Darcy


I agree. The parenthesis signals that the parenthesized instruction is 
merely a reminder and is not technically needed. If an accidental 
carries information about succeeding notes, it is not a courtesy 
accidental at all!


That said, however, I would be careful to place a(n unparenthesized) 
courtesy natural before any repetition of the pitch within that bar 
just to make sure the player understands.


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Andrew Stiller]

On Sep 7, 2005, at 4:54 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

I can't find this in Ted Ross, and am looking for a rule: When a tie 
reaches across a System break, should an accidental be repeated on the 
second note?


My policy is to do this only following a page turn.

Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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Re: [Finale] US copyright question

[Darcy James Argue]

Andrew,

Significant use of copyrighted material within a new original work  
would seem to be in the same spirit as sampling -- which normally  
only covers the use of existing _recordings_, but still, the  
principle is the same.


http://www.music-law.com/sampling.html

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 08 Sep 2005, at 4:51 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:



As long as we're talking about this, there's a question I've  
wondered about for years that maybe someone on this list knows the  
answer to:


Is collaging fair usage? Specifically, consider Berio's *Sinfonia*,  
which quotes numerous copyrighted works without any notice of  
written permission to use any of them.


I'm  not talking about outright parody, wh. is definitely fair  
usage in the US, but merely the use of recognizable fragments of  
copyrighted works in a patchwork to make something new. The various  
court cases involving sampling would strongly suggest that such  
practices are *not* fair usage--but then how explain the Berio?


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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Re: [Finale] Text Expr Designer_bug? Fin 2006 (Mac)

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 8, 2005, at 9:04 AM, Hans Arktoft wrote:

Anyone else noticed that Line Spacing is disabled in the Text 
Expression Designer dialog box?
Even if this menu item is available, nothing happens when you try to 
select it (with or without the expression itself highlighted).


I'll report it when / if someone on the list can corfirm it as a bug.

Mac G4 10.3.9 Fin 2006



I don't have 2006, but I remember in other apps I have been able to 
fake it by adding a space at the end of a line in a different point 
size, effectively changing the line spacing. This might help you in the 
mean time.


Christopher


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Re: [Finale] US copyright question

[Ken Durling]

Just curious, although I've heard the work. I'm not intimately 
familiar with it, and I'm only aware of the Mahler 2 Scherzo in 
there.  What else is there?  And is/was the Mahler for sure under copyright?



Ken


At 01:51 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote:

As long as we're talking about this, there's a question I've 
wondered about for years that maybe someone on this list knows the answer to:


Is collaging fair usage? Specifically, consider Berio's *Sinfonia*, 
which quotes numerous copyrighted works without any notice of 
written permission to use any of them.


I'm  not talking about outright parody, wh. is definitely fair usage 
in the US, but merely the use of recognizable fragments of 
copyrighted works in a patchwork to make something new. The various 
court cases involving sampling would strongly suggest that such 
practices are *not* fair usage--but then how explain the Berio?


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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Ken Durling
Composition and Music Services
Berkeley, CA
[510] 843-4419

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Re: [Finale] US copyright question

[Chuck Israels]

I don't know what the limit is, but I always understood that there  
was a certain length of quote that went over the line into  
infringement.  I have in my faulty memory 4 measures for popular  
songs, but that doesn't seem too practical to me.


Chuck


On Sep 8, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:



As long as we're talking about this, there's a question I've  
wondered about for years that maybe someone on this list knows the  
answer to:


Is collaging fair usage? Specifically, consider Berio's *Sinfonia*,  
which quotes numerous copyrighted works without any notice of  
written permission to use any of them.


I'm  not talking about outright parody, wh. is definitely fair  
usage in the US, but merely the use of recognizable fragments of  
copyrighted works in a patchwork to make something new. The various  
court cases involving sampling would strongly suggest that such  
practices are *not* fair usage--but then how explain the Berio?


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] US copyright question

[Andrew Stiller]

As long as we're talking about this, there's a question I've wondered 
about for years that maybe someone on this list knows the answer to:


Is collaging fair usage? Specifically, consider Berio's *Sinfonia*, 
which quotes numerous copyrighted works without any notice of written 
permission to use any of them.


I'm  not talking about outright parody, wh. is definitely fair usage in 
the US, but merely the use of recognizable fragments of copyrighted 
works in a patchwork to make something new. The various court cases 
involving sampling would strongly suggest that such practices are *not* 
fair usage--but then how explain the Berio?


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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RE: [Finale] Re: file overwrite bug

[Fisher, Allen]

I've been trying for the better part of a year to figure something out.
No luck yet...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Simon Troup
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 5:52 AM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: file overwrite bug


>Simon -- Fin2k5 or 2k6?

2k6.

Has anyone tracked down a proceedure that can reproduce the bug?

-- 
Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Ken Durling]

Interesting.  I have the IMC score, and although the pagination is 
different, I can see that they follow a similar practice - but here 
accidentals are only rarely repeated on ties over system breaks. I've 
only found one example so far.  Lots of non-repeated ones.


Ken


At 12:14 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote:

Figured I'd pull out the old Stravinsky Sacre score, the Kalmus reprint
that I bought in the 1960s. Not exactly a monument to engraving, but very
legible in general, considering how much is going on.

So no answer. It goes both ways. The English Horn line from p1-2
repeats the sharp as does the flute line from p2-3. But the clarinet line
doesn't repeat the flat from p103-104 or 121-122. The oboe repeats a flat
from 115-116 but not from 109-110. It's not consistent (though I was
surprised at how few ties Igor uses over the barlines).

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 20:57 Uhr David W. Fenton wrote:
The Peters volume that I was looking at is a reprint of one of their 
old editions, with a preface dated 1852, so one might guess that the 
musical text reflects much older engraving rules.




This reflects my observations as well. I have here a volume of various 
organ preludes published in 1927, and it is extremely inconsistent. 
That's the music I am currently working on, hence the problems trying to 
convince the client that the extra accidentals after system breaks are 
necessary.


I also have several older editions of various organ works, dating back 
to about the turn of the century, and they seem to not have these 
courtesy accis. So from what I am seeing I think I can make a case that 
practice changed in the first half of the 20th century, and that by 
about the 40s the extra accis were pretty much established convention.


That is not to say that the rule will be followed without exception, I 
am certain one will find exceptions even in major publications (although 
having looked through quite a number of them I didn't find any).


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Figured I'd pull out the old Stravinsky Sacre score, the Kalmus reprint
that I bought in the 1960s. Not exactly a monument to engraving, but very
legible in general, considering how much is going on.

So no answer. It goes both ways. The English Horn line from p1-2
repeats the sharp as does the flute line from p2-3. But the clarinet line
doesn't repeat the flat from p103-104 or 121-122. The oboe repeats a flat
from 115-116 but not from 109-110. It's not consistent (though I was
surprised at how few ties Igor uses over the barlines).

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Ken Durling]

Yes, I follow you and concur for the tied note.  I was just talking 
about subsequent iterations of the pitch.


Ken


At 12:05 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote:

On 19:04 Uhr Ken Durling wrote:
Well, I'm not entirely sure being on system break or not affects 
this question.  If an accidental is tied across a barline it seems 
to me it raises the question of subsequent identical pitches in the 
following bar in either case, so that adding an accidental - 
probably NOT courtesy but normal - should be the norm, as others are saying.


Well, by traditional European convention there should definitely not 
be an accidental on a tied over note unless the tie goes over a 
system break. All the editions I listed completely go by this convention.


Ken Durling
Composition and Music Services
Berkeley, CA
[510] 843-4419

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 19:04 Uhr Ken Durling wrote:
Well, I'm not entirely sure being on system break or not affects this 
question.  If an accidental is tied across a barline it seems to me 
it raises the question of subsequent identical pitches in the 
following bar in either case, so that adding an accidental - probably 
NOT courtesy but normal - should be the norm, as others are saying.


Well, by traditional European convention there should definitely not be 
an accidental on a tied over note unless the tie goes over a system 
break. All the editions I listed completely go by this convention.


I also think this is influenced by the presence or lack of key 
signature.  My own work is almost entirely without key signature, and 
I think that adds another level of necessity for clarity.  When sight 
reading music "with" a key signature I think my tendency would be to 
revert to the non-accidental note in the situation we're discussing.


Ah, for music without a key sig, and even more so for atonal music the 
case may indeed be different. I wouldn't know, I don't do that kind of 
music very often.


Johannes

--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Sep 2005 at 13:23, Phil Daley wrote:

> As a sight reader, I would expect that, if there was an accidental in
> a previous measure that was tied over into the current measure, the
> next time that note appeared in the current measure, it would have a
> normal accidental.

I would expect exactly the opposite.

If the first note were *not* tied, the accidental would carry over 
for the whole measure.

I see no reason why tying should change that.

In either case, tied or not, the appearance of the note a half step 
away from the first instance seems to me to require an explicit 
accidental for any kind of clarity at all. That is, the second note 
needs an accidental no matter if it's the same or different, since 
otherwise, it's going to be open to interpretation.

Indeed, in older engraving styles (e.g., 20 yearw on either side of 
1800), accidentals in one voice are not even indicated in other 
voices. It's quite common in the music I'm working with to see an 
octave in the left hand of a piano part with the accidental only on 
the top note of the octave. It doesn't indicate a diminished or 
augmented octave, wich doesn't exist in that musical style, but 
implies a harmonic context where all instances of that pitch class 
get the accidental.

Sometimes it's very unclear whether or not some notes should or 
should not retain the accidental. Sometimes those accidentals even 
carry over to the next bar line. In those repertories, you really 
have to use your ear to figure it out.

To avoid that, it seems to me that one should be explicit about it. 
And any time you're changing the accidental of a pitch within a 
measure, it seems to me obligatory to indicate that explicitly, 
rather than ever assuming that a note without an accidental will be 
interpreted as natural.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Sep 2005 at 17:22, dc wrote:

> Johannes Gebauer écrit:
> >If anyone has the time I would really be interested if a (any) Peters
> > publication of Bach Organ works follows this, sometimes or all the
> >times, or not at all, since he seems to claim that they don't. I
> >cannot check this since I don't own one. Please also let me know the
> >year of the publication.
> 
> The Peters Urtext edition of the (manualiter) Toccatas, 1956, seems to
> follow the rule. All my other volumes of organ works are Bärenreiter
> (with one Breitkopf).

The Peters volume that I was looking at is a reprint of one of their 
old editions, with a preface dated 1852, so one might guess that the 
musical text reflects much older engraving rules.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Chuck Israels]

On Sep 8, 2005, at 9:41 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

I had the opposite instinct -- that a parenthesized courtesy  
accidental on a tied note at the beginning of a measure would not  
carry through the measure, and if it's e.g., an Eb, the next Eb in  
the measure would require a (non-courtesy) accidental.


But it would be nice to know what others do in this situation.

-


I always put a new accidental after a tied one occurring at the  
beginning of a measure and don't see a way to avoid this practice and  
still be unambiguous.  I might also put a parenthesized courtesy  
cancellation, if the accidental doesn't carry over in the latter part  
of the measure, just to be clear.


I love the idea of "curtsey" accidentals though.

Chuck

Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Sep 2005 at 16:30, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

> If anyone has the time I would really be interested if a (any) Peters
> publication of Bach Organ works follows this, sometimes or all the
> times, or not at all, since he seems to claim that they don't. I
> cannot check this since I don't own one. Please also let me know the
> year of the publication.

I just pulled out Peters Bach Orgelwerke VIII (concertos & the 8 
little preludes & fugues), and on the first page of Concerto II (the 
edition doesn't have BWV numbers), I see a passage with ties in all 
the lower voices of both manuals as well as the pedal. The note in 
the left hand is a G#, tied from a half note at the end of one 
measure to two whole measures, then tied over a system break to a 
dotted half. The # is *not* repeated 

So, that's an example where Peters does break the rule.

It doesn't look like a problem in the context, though, as it would be 
completely unmusical and nonharmonic to think that the tied G were 
natural and not sharp. The notes above make it impossible to forget 
that, and the long held chord makes it very unlikely that someone 
would accidentally interpret it as a slur.

The passsage recurs later with different distribution of the parts in 
the hands (not logically, though -- it is just badly notated in the 
first occurrence), but with the system break after the first half 
note. The # is not repeated.

I also found another case in the 6th of the preludes (an alla breve), 
in which breaking the rule *is* confusing. The context is that in the 
measure before the system break, two voices land on G#. One is tied 
and on the downbeat of the next measure, the top one moves to A 
natural. So, you see a step dissonance, and in context, it looks more 
logical for it to be a whole step, but it's really a half step.

Of course, again, when playing it, it's very unlikely one would make 
that misjudgment.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] OT: Spotlight causing sluggishness?

[Brad Beyenhof]

On 9/7/05, Karen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Revisiting Brad's issue with sluggishness when using FinMac2006.  I
> had a client experiencing the same thing as Brad was describing.  I
> had my client look at his crash logs and he found continuous errors
> with mdimportserver which has to do with spotlight indexing.
> 
> Don't know if this is what is causing Brad's issues or not, but I
> thought it may be worth passing along.

Nope, that's not it. I'm running Panther, which (as you know) has no
Spotlight to speak of.

To be honest (and to go off the beaten path a bit), I'm not altogether
certain that I even *want* Tiger. Quicksilver is better than
Spotlight, even though I'm stuck at a version Blacktree codenamed
"Pariah" due to my "upgrade lag," and Konfabulator is just about the
same as Dashboard.

I know there's probably a lot of under-the-hood sorts of things (there
always are), but in terms of features I've got a couple of the best of
them already through third-party freeware apps.

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
Silence will save me from being wrong (and foolish), but it will also
deprive me of the possibility of being right.   ~ Igor Stravinsky

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[Finale] Coil binder

[Nick Carter]

Further to the recent discussions about binding
large format scores, we're now offering the
Akiles CoilMac-M Manual Punch and Coil Inserter.
This machine has an "Open Punching Throat", so
accommodates multiple-pass punching for large-format
scores. As Robert Piechaud (creator of November font
and Medieval plug-in) said, "...excellent!!! It's so
refreshing to see that on a high-tech website!
I want one!!"
If anyone has other suggestions for binding
tools, I'd like to hear them so that we can
strengthen our offerings in this area.
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com

ex-Th!nk City EV driver
President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"

***
** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD**
** 59 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from $18.95! **
**  CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook **
** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller, etc. **
**   Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock  **
***


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Phil Daley]

At 9/8/2005 01:04 PM, Ken  Durling wrote:

>Well, I'm not entirely sure being on system break or not affects this
>question.  If an accidental is tied across a barline it seems to me
>it raises the question of subsequent identical pitches in the
>following bar in either case, so that adding an accidental - probably
>NOT courtesy but normal - should be the norm, as others are saying.

As a sight reader, I would expect that, if there was an accidental in a 
previous measure that was tied over into the current measure, the next time 
that note appeared in the current measure, it would have a normal accidental.


Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Ken Durling]

Well, I'm not entirely sure being on system break or not affects this 
question.  If an accidental is tied across a barline it seems to me 
it raises the question of subsequent identical pitches in the 
following bar in either case, so that adding an accidental - probably 
NOT courtesy but normal - should be the norm, as others are saying.


I also think this is influenced by the presence or lack of key 
signature.  My own work is almost entirely without key signature, and 
I think that adds another level of necessity for clarity.  When sight 
reading music "with" a key signature I think my tendency would be to 
revert to the non-accidental note in the situation we're discussing.


Ken


At 09:23 AM 9/8/2005, you wrote:

On 18:10 Uhr Ken Durling wrote:
I agree, it's never been an issue for me either - more problematic 
is a reiteration of the same note later in the  2nd measure, and 
whether the measure rule applies from the tied note.  But still the 
courtesy accidental is always the safe road.


Do you mean you put them in even in a middle of a system? That would 
really confuse me when sightreading.


And yes, that specific question is interesting. I would not add 
another courtesy acci, if the first note in the measure had one, but 
to be honest I haven't checked this out. Anyone know?


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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[510] 843-4419

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[A-NO-NE Music]

Darcy James Argue / 2005/09/08 / 12:41 PM wrote:

>I had the opposite instinct -- that a parenthesized courtesy  
>accidental on a tied note at the beginning of a measure would not  
>carry through the measure, and if it's e.g., an Eb, the next Eb in  
>the measure would require a (non-courtesy) accidental.


This is exactly how I have been doing, and I receive no complaint.  I
even get thank you remark from sight reader sometime :-)


-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Darcy James Argue]

I had the opposite instinct -- that a parenthesized courtesy  
accidental on a tied note at the beginning of a measure would not  
carry through the measure, and if it's e.g., an Eb, the next Eb in  
the measure would require a (non-courtesy) accidental.


But it would be nice to know what others do in this situation.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 08 Sep 2005, at 12:23 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:


On 18:10 Uhr Ken Durling wrote:

I agree, it's never been an issue for me either - more problematic  
is a reiteration of the same note later in the  2nd measure, and  
whether the measure rule applies from the tied note.  But still  
the courtesy accidental is always the safe road.




Do you mean you put them in even in a middle of a system? That  
would really confuse me when sightreading.


And yes, that specific question is interesting. I would not add  
another courtesy acci, if the first note in the measure had one,  
but to be honest I haven't checked this out. Anyone know?


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 18:10 Uhr Ken Durling wrote:
I agree, it's never been an issue for me either - more problematic is 
a reiteration of the same note later in the  2nd measure, and whether 
the measure rule applies from the tied note.  But still the courtesy 
accidental is always the safe road.


Do you mean you put them in even in a middle of a system? That would 
really confuse me when sightreading.


And yes, that specific question is interesting. I would not add another 
courtesy acci, if the first note in the measure had one, but to be 
honest I haven't checked this out. Anyone know?


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Chuck Israels]

On Sep 8, 2005, at 8:57 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:The client has actually given in. He actually checked his own Peters, and to his surprise found that I was correct...Of course now his trust in me has quadrupled. Took me a whole day, though.Only a day?  I'd consider that a speed record! :-)Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com  ___
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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[A-NO-NE Music]

dc / 2005/09/08 / 12:05 PM wrote:

>I think I've always seen it without the brackets.


To me, without parenthesis, it can be confused with slurred instead of
tied, no?


-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Ken Durling]

I agree, it's never been an issue for me either - more problematic is 
a reiteration of the same note later in the  2nd measure, and whether 
the measure rule applies from the tied note.  But still the courtesy 
accidental is always the safe road.  (I do like "curtsy" accidental 
though :-) - perhaps something in a French Overture?)


Ken


At 08:50 AM 9/8/2005, you wrote:


I was fascinated with this thread, 'coz I never thought it is an issue.
I always put curtsy repeated accidental with parenthesis (hit '*' then
'P') so we save rehearsal/studio time.

--

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Johannes Gebauer]

If you mean you do this for system breaks, you can use Robert's TieMover 
plugin, it can do this automatically. I let it do this in the same run 
as I move ties on lines a quarter space away from the note (it's amazing 
that Finale can now do this for slurs, but requires a third party plugin 
to do it for ties...).


Johannes

A-NO-NE Music schrieb:
I was fascinated with this thread, 'coz I never thought it is an issue. 
I always put curtsy repeated accidental with parenthesis (hit '*' then

'P') so we save rehearsal/studio time.



--
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http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 17:22 Uhr dc wrote:
The Peters Urtext edition of the (manualiter) Toccatas, 1956, seems 
to follow the rule. All my other volumes of organ works are 
Bärenreiter (with one Breitkopf).




Thanks, that's what I needed to know.
The client has actually given in. He actually checked his own Peters, 
and to his surprise found that I was correct...

Of course now his trust in me has quadrupled. Took me a whole day, though.

Johannes
--
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http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[A-NO-NE Music]

I was fascinated with this thread, 'coz I never thought it is an issue. 
I always put curtsy repeated accidental with parenthesis (hit '*' then
'P') so we save rehearsal/studio time.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Ken Durling]

I have three nearly complete editions of the Bach 
organ works, (Barenreiter, EMB, Peters and a few 
Schirmers)  including most of the Peters - I'll 
check later as this has my curiosity now, but 
they are at church not here at home.


Ken


At 08:22 AM 9/8/2005, you wrote:

Johannes Gebauer écrit:
If anyone has the time I would really be 
interested if a (any) Peters publication of 
Bach Organ works follows this, sometimes or all 
the times, or not at all, since he seems to 
claim that they don't. I cannot check this 
since I don't own one. Please also let me know the year of the publication.


The Peters Urtext edition of the (manualiter) 
Toccatas, 1956, seems to follow the rule. All my 
other volumes of organ works are Bärenreiter (with one Breitkopf).


Dennis





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Re: [Finale] ties/accidentals over system breaks

[Johannes Gebauer]

In case anyone is interested I have now been forced to prove my case to 
the client, so I looked at the following list of publications:


Mendelssohn, Hebriden-Ouvertüre, Bärenreiter, 2004.
Mozart, Marriage of Figaro, Peters 1941
Beethoven, Sinfonie Nr 6, Eulenburg 1986
Bach, Wohltemperiertes Klavier, Bd. I, Henle, 1950
Bach, Weihnachts-Oratorium, Bärenreiter 1960/1988
Bach, Matthäus-Passion, Bärenreiter, 1972
Haydn, Klaviertrios Band IV, Henle Verlag 1987

The bias on Bärenreiter had to do with the client.
All of these publications follow the rule without exceptions. This was 
100% of all publications I looked at.


So I guess that at least the major European publishers (I haven't looked 
at Breitkopf, didn't have any at hand) do indeed follow this convention.


I still couldn't convince the client (he doesn't understand that this is 
an exception only applicable at system breaks), so since he decides we 
will not follow the convention, even though I am unhappy about this. But 
who cares?


If anyone has the time I would really be interested if a (any) Peters 
publication of Bach Organ works follows this, sometimes or all the 
times, or not at all, since he seems to claim that they don't. I cannot 
check this since I don't own one. Please also let me know the year of 
the publication.


Johannes

On 07.09.2005 22:54 Uhr Johannes Gebauer wrote:
I can't find this in Ted Ross, and am looking for a rule: When a tie 
reaches across a System break, should an accidental be repeated on 
the second note? I know it can be, but can someone look this up in 
the other standard treatises for me, or point me to the right page in 
Ted Ross?





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[Finale] Text Expr Designer_bug? Fin 2006 (Mac)

[Hans Arktoft]

Anyone else noticed that Line Spacing is disabled in the Text 
Expression Designer dialog box?
Even if this menu item is available, nothing happens when you try to 
select it (with or without the expression itself highlighted).


I'll report it when / if someone on the list can corfirm it as a bug.

Mac G4 10.3.9 Fin 2006

--
Hans Arktoft
Stockholm, Sweden

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