Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
You can make Sibelius have a Speedy Entry, sort of, but it doesn't work as well as Finale's. But then MM doesn't want you to work in Speedy. They consider it old fashioned. They want you to learn the simple entry tools they copied (none to well) form Sibelius. Sibelius works best with simple entry. And it's very good at it. It works much more seamlessly than Finale (at least as of 2005 which is my latest Finale). It took me very little time to decide that Sibelius' simple entry was better *for me* than Finale's speedy (which I like a great deal). Sib's playback is extremely good and gets better with each version. How many people really use any type of real time entry? I found it easier in Sibelius than in Finale but the best real time entry I have used was in (now long gone) Music Printer Plus. I rarely use MIDI with Sib because it works so well with keyboard (not mouse!!) entry. With Finale. I feel much more need for MIDI. Your right about the more advanced methods needing keyboard rather than mouse entry. Sibelius has extensive keyboard shortcuts and the manual urges users to avoid the mouse and learn the keyboard. If you like numbers, you can make those kind of changes and when you find ones you like, you save them as a house style for your future use. You may prefer Finale's power tools to those of Sibelius, but to suggest that there are none in Sibelius is just incorrect. If you like Finale, it's the best tool for you . If you like Sibelius, it's the best tool for you. For some music one or the other is a better choice. Some people think like Finale and some (me included) think like Sibelius. Really, both of these tools are so developed we ought to just choose the one that suits us the best and deliver the final copy as a .PDF; and stop fussin' because someone else makes a different choice. Sorry to be so long. Richard Smith www.rgsmithmusic.com Steve Schow wrote: Well, isn't there really more to it than that? Does Sibelius have the equivalent of speedy entry? How is Sibelius's Hyperscribe mode? How is Sib's Human playback? Perhaps for simple entry, it may be about as efficient as Finale and its simply a matter of learning the program, but the true finale power users use the power-tools that exist in Finale to be hyper-efficient at how fast they can enter music into the score. My impression is that Sibelius lacks some of that power-user capability. It very well may be able to format a score with a lot of flexibility...but if you have use the mouse to do everything than the simple fact is that a super power-user Sib user will not ever be quite as efficient as a super power-user Finale user. That's the impression I have. A lot of users are not destined to become super power-users, and perhaps Sibelius is more straightforward for them. But its not clear to me that Sib has the same level of support for super power-usage, as does Finale. I'm also a big fan of being able to specify things numerically...precisely...rather than nudging things around with my mouse until it looks pretty good. That is easy to do with the mouse, but HORRIBLY manual and creates carpal tunnel syndrome too! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
Richard it sounds like you are wasting your time on this mail-list. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Smith Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 11:08 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale If you like Finale, it's the best tool for you . If you like Sibelius, it's the best tool for you. For some music one or the other is a better choice. Some people think like Finale and some (me included) think like Sibelius. Really, both of these tools are so developed we ought to just choose the one that suits us the best and deliver the final copy as a .PDF; and stop fussin' because someone else makes a different choice. man/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Converting 2007 to 2006
Hello List, I was almost done working on an orchestral film music cue file in Finale 2006 when the program crashed. I immediately double-clicked on the file icon and after Finale had re-launched all my data was saved - except for the last five minutes of work, so I immediately resaved the file. However, by double-clicking on the icon instead of launching the program first, I inadvertently opened the file in Finale 2007 instead of 2006. The composer I'm working for only has Finale 2006 on his computer. I made no changes in the score that would involve 2007 file structures. What's the easiest way for me to convert this one-off saved score file back into 2006 so the composer can open and work with it? Thanks in advance for your help, Brian ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
Though my work is tonal, it is highly chromatic and sigs are annoying. Further, as a horn player, I find it disconcerting to put things into a C score to work around. Is it so difficult for MM to add no key/atonal to the choices? huh? leave the score in C (key sig) and uncheck display in concert pitch (document menu F2007). eazy schmeezy. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale - now a tunnel-vision Finale 2008 review
As I have often said, the one thing I can't figure out how to do in the linked parts is to place a To Coda symbol in the middle of a MM rest without breaking out one individual measure (5 - 1- 2 for instance, instead of 6 - 2). assign it in the part to the first measure in the MM rest, hide it in the score / other parts as needed. this can be done very quickly and easily. pp 37-5 to 37-7 of the manual. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 08:25 PM 8/4/2007, Leigh Daniels wrote: And that's another problem with Finale support--we are extremely unlikely to see *any* reply from MM on this list. This is not an MM list, and MM does not officially monitor it. This has always been true. The Sibelius-list at yahoogroups isn't owned by Sibelius, yet they officially monitor it. This is in addition to the Forum which Sibelius maintains at their own web-site. Would it be such a drain on MM's resources to allow their employees to maintain a presence here officially, instead of making them do it on their own time and unofficially? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
Steve Schow wrote: For people who have grown up with Finale and used it for many versions, it will remain easier to use until an equal amount of time is put into learning Sibelius. But for people just starting out with one notation program or the other, it's what they learn first which will seem easiest for most of them, once they've put in a certain amount of time using that program. Well, isn't there really more to it than that? Does Sibelius have the equivalent of speedy entry? How is Sibelius's Hyperscribe mode? How is Sib's Human playback? Sibelius has no direct equivalent to speedy entry, but they do have an entry method which allows the use of the numeric keypad to select the note value and the letter keys of the computer keyboard to select the pitch and then use the 8 or shift-8 keys to move the pitch an octave up or down. But their entry method of using the numeric keypad to select the value and the midi keyboard to select the pitch is pretty equivalent to Speedy entry. Their hyperscribe method (called Flexitime by Sibelius) seems to me to work as well as Finale's Hyperscribe ever worked for me, who has lousy keyboard technique. Sib's human playback mode is pretty good, interpreting hairpins and trills and grace notes very well. It is very editable. Perhaps for simple entry, it may be about as efficient as Finale and its simply a matter of learning the program, but the true finale power users use the power-tools that exist in Finale to be hyper-efficient at how fast they can enter music into the score. My impression is that Sibelius lacks some of that power-user capability. It very well may be able to format a score with a lot of flexibility...but if you have use the mouse to do everything than the simple fact is that a super power-user Sib user will not ever be quite as efficient as a super power-user Finale user. That's the impression I have. You don't need to use the mouse to do everything in Sibelius any more than you need to use the mouse to do everything in Finale. They're about equal in that regard. What you don't have to do in Sibelius which you do have to do in Finale is to select a different tool to select different items to work with. You may not have to select the correct tool anymore, but you do have to select the Selection tool. Making the selection of things in Finale require 2 clicks (unless you happen to want to work on something else using the same tool) whereas Sibelius has everything clickable all the time, so you only have to use 1 click to start working on a particular item in Sibelius. A lot of users are not destined to become super power-users, and perhaps Sibelius is more straightforward for them. But its not clear to me that Sib has the same level of support for super power-usage, as does Finale. I'm also a big fan of being able to specify things numerically...precisely...rather than nudging things around with my mouse until it looks pretty good. That is easy to do with the mouse, but HORRIBLY manual and creates carpal tunnel syndrome too! And for you Sibelius might not be a better tool. It's not for everybody. I'm not sure your earlier statement about a super-power-user on Sibelius will ever be quite as efficient as a super-power-user on Finale. The only way to determine that would be to find 20 or 30 super-power-users of each product and have a shootout involving 3 or 4 different scores from musical history, including recent scores such as the kind Dennis Bathory-Kitsz works on. I'm certainly not a power-user of Sibelius yet, nor am I a power-user of Finale at the same level of Dennis, yet I find Sibelius to be very easy and enjoyable to use, with Finale becoming less so. And I've been using Finale since version 3.5 so it's not like I'm a newbie who hasn't put in the time to learn Finale. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Goodbye Finale
Richard Smith wrote: Henry E. Howey wrote: Also, I really need SMARTMUSIC, and it only works with 5inale. So does MM. That's why SmartMusic is only compatible with Finale. By the way, why should I pay for a SmartMusic subscription, ostensibly to be able to use licensed content, and not be paid a license fee by Finale when I use my own content? Just wondering :) I've long wondered that and complained to MM about that -- they should be paying us a percentage of the subscription fee they collect, just as they do to the publishers whose music they've licensed, when we use our own music, since we have not signed a contract with them nor agreed to let them collect subscription fees for using our own music. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting 2007 to 2006
Brian Williams wrote: Hello List, I was almost done working on an orchestral film music cue file in Finale 2006 when the program crashed. I immediately double-clicked on the file icon and after Finale had re-launched all my data was saved - except for the last five minutes of work, so I immediately resaved the file. However, by double-clicking on the icon instead of launching the program first, I inadvertently opened the file in Finale 2007 instead of 2006. The composer I'm working for only has Finale 2006 on his computer. I made no changes in the score that would involve 2007 file structures. What's the easiest way for me to convert this one-off saved score file back into 2006 so the composer can open and work with it? There are only 2 ways to get a Fin2007 file into Fin2006 -- 1) export as a midi file and open the midi file in Fin2006; or 2) export from Fin2007 as MusicXML and import that file into Fin2006. Neither of which is totally painless, but the MusicXML method is much more complete than the MIDI file route. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale - now a tunnel-vision Finale 2008 review
Now, will someone please explain to me how this linked parts stuff works? Raymond Horton read the manual, pp 37-5 onwards, everything is explained clearly, as i repeat every 2-3 weeks when this question comes up. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] whatever works
My daughter and I are playing in the pit orchestra for a production of Peter Pan. The books are distributed by Samuel French Warehouse out of Hurleyville, NY. In my 40 years of show playing, I have never seen parts so poorly prepared. The books are photocopies of the old velum, and the oils from the fingers of players past left smudges on the pages that photocopied totally black.the parts are partly illegible and really frustrating to read. To charge a rental fee for these books is insulting. I can only hope that the boys at Samuel French will hire someone to clean up the books! Whether they choose Finale, Sibelius or Deluxe Music Construction Set makes no difference to me. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On the contrary, I work with both Finale and Sibelius and I learn useful things on this list. My first Finale was version 2 and I have used 3.5, 97, 2003, and 2005. I haven't decided about 2008 yet but it's probably about time to upgrade. My first Sibelius was 1.0 and I have had every version since. So I know them both pretty well. However I have grown tired of Sibelius users charging Finale with being clumsy and Finale users saying Sibelius is not capable of serious work. Neither charge is true anymore (if they ever were). It is just a personal choice as to which of these really sophisticated tools best suits your personal needs and working method. That's why I think electronic delivery of music should be by .pdf rather than a music data file. I'll be glad when that is more common. Then the choice of engraving tool will matter less. Richard Smith www.rgsmithmusic.com Steve Schow wrote: Richard it sounds like you are wasting your time on this mail-list. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Smith Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 11:08 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale If you like Finale, it's the best tool for you . If you like Sibelius, it's the best tool for you. For some music one or the other is a better choice. Some people think like Finale and some (me included) think like Sibelius. Really, both of these tools are so developed we ought to just choose the one that suits us the best and deliver the final copy as a .PDF; and stop fussin' because someone else makes a different choice. man/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
At 06:07 AM 8/5/2007 -0400, dhbailey wrote: The only way to determine that would be to find 20 or 30 super-power-users of each product and have a shootout involving 3 or 4 different scores from musical history, including recent scores such as the kind Dennis Bathory-Kitsz works on. I'm certainly not a power-user of Sibelius yet, nor am I a power-user of Finale at the same level of Dennis Since my name's been taken in vain... I am actually not a power user. I'm a 15-year user of a subset of Finale tools. I have never used Simple entry, hardly ever touch chords, and never use the Tempo, Mirror, Ossia or Hyperscribe tools, nor do I use a Midi keyboard. On the other hand, I'd be lost without the Special Tools and plugins, and my touch-typing means I don't have to look at the screen for dozens of measures in Speedy entry (numeric keyboard version), even going from staff to staff. My frustrations with Finale -- aside from the bugs, which are becoming house-of-cards awful -- come down to three main areas: its limited graphical features, its lock into the measure paradigm, and the lack of visibility into the present state of the document or item. The lack of graphical features is particular with music of the last 75 years, with turned or stretched symbols, curved or angled staves, elements in color, etc. Outside of contemporary, non-Western or some early music, this will rarely bother most Finale users (but it will bother musicianship; that's another topic, though). The measure lock-in requires kludges, plugins, special tools, and graphical solutions to achieve contemporary scores that should be as easy as Mozart to enter. Contemporary scores are musical documents, but Finale handles them as graphical ones, and does not make the entry, editing and layout process a native musical one. The lack of visibility is severe in complex scores, whatever the era. Aside from the lack of association rubber bands, there is no Finale action toolbar. Though I proposed that here in February 2005 http://maltedmedia.com/images/finale/toolbar.gif it was not received with any enthusiasm. An action toolbar eliminates the present demand for dozens of dialog box accesses and thousands of keyclicks, and puts the tools on a droplist instead of cluttering screen real estate with a tool you're not using. Anyway, if you've had a program with rubber bands and an action toolbar, you know how they facilitate productivity by presenting the info and options for each selected item. But I agree with David that a style competition (in time and accuracy) engaged by style-specific users would be incredibly valuable. It was shown a few weeks ago that Sibelius can produce similar results to Finale on a difficult contemporary score, so to my mind Finale has a lot of work to do to make such entry and editing convenient and retain other than an increasingly resentful loyalty from me. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale - now a tunnel-vision Finale 2008 review
Hi jef, Yes, that's essentially what I do in extracted parts but, with those, you never see the unused symbol (at least not in page view). I readily admit to personal, emotional irrationality on this issue, but I simply don't like those half tone symbols lurking on the screen in my score. I wish for a more elegant way of doing this, but i can't figure out how it might be implemented. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:27 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: As I have often said, the one thing I can't figure out how to do in the linked parts is to place a To Coda symbol in the middle of a MM rest without breaking out one individual measure (5 - 1- 2 for instance, instead of 6 - 2). assign it in the part to the first measure in the MM rest, hide it in the score / other parts as needed. this can be done very quickly and easily. pp 37-5 to 37-7 of the manual. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] whatever works
Lawrence David Eden wrote: My daughter and I are playing in the pit orchestra for a production of Peter Pan. The books are distributed by Samuel French Warehouse out of Hurleyville, NY. In my 40 years of show playing, I have never seen parts so poorly prepared. The books are photocopies of the old velum, and the oils from the fingers of players past left smudges on the pages that photocopied totally black.the parts are partly illegible and really frustrating to read. To charge a rental fee for these books is insulting. I can only hope that the boys at Samuel French will hire someone to clean up the books! Whether they choose Finale, Sibelius or Deluxe Music Construction Set makes no difference to me. Since the folks at Samuel French control the rental of the books to copyrighted shows for which there are no other sources, and which remain immensely popular, such as Peter Pan, there is absolutely no incentive for them to do that. That's what monopoly power is, and copyright gives total monopoly power over a single commodity -- one copyrighted property. And once a demand has been created for that property, those who control the monopoly power can do whatever they want with not controls whatsoever. Complain to Samuel French all you want, and they'll just file it with all the other similar complaints (in the circular file) and laugh all the way to the bank. The only way to get them to start to do something about horrible rental materials is for your organization to initiate a rental but not sign the contract and then to pull out at the last moment with clear complaints about the state of the materials that they have heard about from others who have rented the same show. Only when the monopoly power starts to unravel and they actually can see they are losing money will they do something. Until then, they've no reason whatsoever to care whether musicians like the parts or not, since there are no other sources. As the Lily Tomlin character used to say on Laugh-In -- We don't have to care. We're the Phone Company. That attitude did prompt the U.S. congress to open up the telephone market to competition, but then everybody in the country used the telephone. Such a tiny percentage of Americans ever are confronted with the horrible parts that make up such rentals as you're complaining about, so there is no political clout to get things changed. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On 8/5/07, Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However I have grown tired of Sibelius users charging Finale with being clumsy and Finale users saying Sibelius is not capable of serious work. I have at many times grown so fed up with Makemusic as to seriously consider switching. But every time I try Sibelius I can't even get past template creation before running into an unacceptable limitation. As of the last time I tried (version 4) Sibelius could not even do nested desk brackets (as in the Rite of Spring). Can someone who knows Sibelius 5 tell me if this has been corrected? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
I dunno. Sounds like work. MakeMusic doesn't seem to like to do that. And the Trolls they have lurking in their Forums.I think it would be best if MakeMusic just went to like US Postal support ;-) dhbailey wrote: The Sibelius-list at yahoogroups isn't owned by Sibelius, yet they officially monitor it. This is in addition to the Forum which Sibelius maintains at their own web-site. Would it be such a drain on MM's resources to allow their employees to maintain a presence here officially, instead of making them do it on their own time and unofficially? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
Not so easy, actually -- see my followup post. Unlike Sibelius, in Finale you must switch each staff to Chromatic Transposition one at a time. There is no way to take a score template that is set for Key Sig Transposition (or a file generated by the Setup Wizard, which always uses Key Sig Transposition) and change the whole thing to Chromatic Transposition all in one go. And if there are any instrument doubles, you also have to change your Staff Styles. And then the chord symbols don't work properly, and nor does the cautionary accidentals plugin... Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 05 Aug 2007, at 5:29 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: Though my work is tonal, it is highly chromatic and sigs are annoying. Further, as a horn player, I find it disconcerting to put things into a C score to work around. Is it so difficult for MM to add no key/atonal to the choices? huh? leave the score in C (key sig) and uncheck display in concert pitch (document menu F2007). eazy schmeezy. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Goodbye Finale
On Fri Aug 3 at 14:29:42 , David W. Fenton wrote: It will be interesting to see if the same stubbornness that caused you to refuse to do the Finale tutorials in full will cause you problems learning Sibelius, too. I think comments like the above are best left unsaid--thanks. Im just back to composing, and copying/notation programs--my last exposure was in the 70's, as I took classes at night, and private lessons, at Juillard -- with a copying class with Arnie Arnstein. So I can only really speak of the midi import issue with Finale. To get anything other than the simplest music (totally quantized, or not) imported and notated has been a horror, with many weeks-months involved in working on my own, and with MM support, finding workarounds for things that don't work, and hearing the term feature request substituted for the dreaded word bug. And this is something all the other notation programs seem to have no problem with, as Finale INTRODUCES problems- (repeated notes/chord, truncated durations, etc..all amply documented and admitted to by MM..as feature requests) I almost feel that MM doesn't know HOW to fix these things--that whoever wrote them left with the secrets.. and couple that with the prideful stance of one who ONCE ruled the market in this.. it spells doom for them as a company. And I really have a hard time buying their limited resources spiel..for one thing, their support bill is DRASTICALLY reduced by lists like this.. They seem to be making EVERY mistake that can be made..while Sibelius is definitely on the right track. Maybe all users should delay, and hold off on ANY upgrades, until bugs are fixed..and keep openly publicizing (as is being done) the problems so as to warn new users of Finales problems, BEFORE they purchase.. I for one would NEVER have bought it, had I known the problems with midi import...and all the rest I read about, just reinforces that. I seem to spending all my time looking for these workarounds for things that just dont work. Just my 2 cents. Peace, Bob Morabito ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
Would it be such a drain on MM's resources to allow their employees to maintain a presence here officially, instead of making them do it on their own time and unofficially? First of all, MM does have its own forum and some of their employees do actively monitor it. I have gotten answers to some of my questions in the past, directly from MM employees. I've also seen [EMAIL PROTECTED] responding on Northernsounds. I haven't been lurking on this list very long, but the impression I have so far is that a large majority of the chatter on here is opinionated conjecture about how bad the bugs in Finale are and why they would so much rather be using Sibelius. They should change the name of this list to ex-finale-users, or pissed-off-finale-users. If not that, then often its criticism about how annoyed they are about simple questions which can be answered through the tutorials, etc, etc, etc.. There are a few extreme finale experts which reside on this list and when they are gracious enough to respond I suspect their answers to questions are as good as anything you would get from MM. I have also enjoyed the deeper discussions related to engraving and so forth, which this list tends to get into a lot in a very productive way. What you are really asking for is a way to give feedback to MM about bugs in the product and receive some kind of confirmation that they have heard you and are working on a fix. I can relate to that frustration. I would try the MM forum for that...which is no guarantee either, but they are more likely to at least hear your thoughts. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] whatever works
Deluxe Music Construction set. Now there is a blast from the past. -Original Message- Of Lawrence David Eden I can only hope that the boys at Samuel French will hire someone to clean up the books! Whether they choose Finale, Sibelius or Deluxe Music Construction Set makes no difference to me. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
At 02:29 PM 8/5/2007, Steve Schow wrote: I haven't been lurking on this list very long, but the impression I have so far is that a large majority of the chatter on here is opinionated conjecture about how bad the bugs in Finale are and why they would so much rather be using Sibelius. I can see why you might have this impression, if you haven't been here very long. Whenever a new version of Finale comes out (as it did just recently) or a new version of Sibelius (just before that), there is a lot of comparative talk. And much of it does seem to be about how Finale has introduced new features which seem incomplete or undesirable in some way. If you had been around last year, you would have seen lots of talk about how generally good the linked parts feature in Finale is (better than in Sibelius, IMO), even though the implementation has some bugs and shortcomings which make it unusable for some people. If not that, then often its criticism about how annoyed they are about simple questions which can be answered through the tutorials, etc, etc, etc.. It is also true that this list can be a little impatient with people who repeatedly ask very basic questions about Finale without appearing to do a little homework in the manual. (The operative word here is repeatedly.) But I think your characterizations are a little unfair. As a longtime Finale user, I still think this list is the best resource for someone who needs help with some aspect of Finale or wants to seriously discuss the application and its uses. The Yahoo list is very low-traffic, and every time I peek at the official MM forums I am dismayed at the lousy signal to noise ratio. Anyone who comes here and asks a question will usually find it answered thoroughly and promptly. What you are really asking for is a way to give feedback to MM about bugs in the product and receive some kind of confirmation that they have heard you and are working on a fix. I can relate to that frustration. I would try the MM forum for that...which is no guarantee either, but they are more likely to at least hear your thoughts. The only guaranteed way to get your opinion through to MM is the direct support channel at http://makemusic.custhelp.com (also accessible through the Support link at finalemusic.com). Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale - now a tunnel-vision Finale 2008 review
chuck, you can change the colour and tone of the hidden elements so they aren't as obtrusive. in fact i have set mine to a light brown colour, so i can better visualize how some elements will appear (in BW) in the parts (that are hidden in the score) without looking at the parts, but light enough to be able to not see them when i am looking at the score. since you do it already in the parts, it would be far more efficient (quicker) to set it once in the score, then hide it in the score and it will appear in all parts. you would only have to set it up once, rather than many times in extracted parts. you can also use a staff list for the measure-assigned symbol and it will only appear in specific parts (and staves in the score). or leave it on all parts (still hidden in the score) and hide it individually in the parts. it depends on how many parts need it which solution would be the best. Hi jef, Yes, that's essentially what I do in extracted parts but, with those, you never see the unused symbol (at least not in page view). I readily admit to personal, emotional irrationality on this issue, but I simply don't like those half tone symbols lurking on the screen in my score. I wish for a more elegant way of doing this, but i can't figure out how it might be implemented. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:27 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: As I have often said, the one thing I can't figure out how to do in the linked parts is to place a To Coda symbol in the middle of a MM rest without breaking out one individual measure (5 - 1- 2 for instance, instead of 6 - 2). assign it in the part to the first measure in the MM rest, hide it in the score / other parts as needed. this can be done very quickly and easily. pp 37-5 to 37-7 of the manual. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] whatever works
Anyone for Laser Music Processor From: Steve Schow Sent: Sun 05-Aug-07 14:32 To: 'finale@shsu.edu' Subject: RE: [Finale] whatever works Deluxe Music Construction set. Now there is a blast from the past. -Original Message- Of Lawrence David Eden I can only hope that the boys at Samuel French will hire someone to clean up the books! Whether they choose Finale, Sibelius or Deluxe Music Construction Set makes no difference to me. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] whatever works
On Aug 5, 2007, at 8:28 AM, Lawrence David Eden wrote: My daughter and I are playing in the pit orchestra for a production of Peter Pan. The books are distributed by Samuel French Warehouse out of Hurleyville, NY. In my 40 years of show playing, I have never seen parts so poorly prepared. The books are photocopies of the old velum, and the oils from the fingers of players past left smudges on the pages that photocopied totally black.the parts are partly illegible and really frustrating to read. To charge a rental fee for these books is insulting. I completely agree, but unfortunately, as long as the business they lose from bad parts costs them less than recopying the parts/score, they won't do a thing. They (and Music Theatre International, too) seem impervious to complaints as well, repeating with the stubbornness and thick skin of a rhinoceros that we signed a contract and they fulfilled it, so get off the phone already and send us our cheque. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Bob Morabito wrote: On Fri Aug 3 at 14:29:42 , David W. Fenton wrote: It will be interesting to see if the same stubbornness that caused you to refuse to do the Finale tutorials in full will cause you problems learning Sibelius, too. I think comments like the above are best left unsaid--thanks. Normally, I would agree with you, but I don't think you saw the level of the posts we were getting from Will. He demanded high-level help from the list on some admittedly complex issues, but he refused outright to read the pages of the manual we named for him. To paraphrase a well-quoted proverb: The Finale Lists helps those who help themselves. Will might very well be happier with Sibelius. I have no problem with that, as happy is the name of the game here. But I, too, wonder if he will be happy. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] can't open online help
Thanks jef, I will set the tone to even lighter than I now have it set, and maybe that will help me to deal with this. Now - another problem: I am trying to find out how to re-size measure reduction using the selection tool (as you used to be able to do with mass edit), and I find I cannot open the online help. Tried using Internet Explorer - though the default browser is Safari. Neither seems to work. I guess that's now two questions. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 11:40 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: chuck, you can change the colour and tone of the hidden elements so they aren't as obtrusive. in fact i have set mine to a light brown colour, so i can better visualize how some elements will appear (in BW) in the parts (that are hidden in the score) without looking at the parts, but light enough to be able to not see them when i am looking at the score. since you do it already in the parts, it would be far more efficient (quicker) to set it once in the score, then hide it in the score and it will appear in all parts. you would only have to set it up once, rather than many times in extracted parts. you can also use a staff list for the measure-assigned symbol and it will only appear in specific parts (and staves in the score). or leave it on all parts (still hidden in the score) and hide it individually in the parts. it depends on how many parts need it which solution would be the best. Hi jef, Yes, that's essentially what I do in extracted parts but, with those, you never see the unused symbol (at least not in page view). I readily admit to personal, emotional irrationality on this issue, but I simply don't like those half tone symbols lurking on the screen in my score. I wish for a more elegant way of doing this, but i can't figure out how it might be implemented. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:27 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: As I have often said, the one thing I can't figure out how to do in the linked parts is to place a To Coda symbol in the middle of a MM rest without breaking out one individual measure (5 - 1- 2 for instance, instead of 6 - 2). assign it in the part to the first measure in the MM rest, hide it in the score / other parts as needed. this can be done very quickly and easily. pp 37-5 to 37-7 of the manual. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http:// newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On Aug 5, 2007, at 12:21 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Yes, but Finale's Chromatic Transposition is seriously flawed compared to Sibelius's, which allows one-click enabling of the option (Atonal/Open Key is a key signature, a separate key signature choice from C major) But in Sibelius you CAN set some instruments separately to Open Key, like traditional orchestral horn, trumpet and timpani parts, while leaving the others key-based? If not, that would be a very large problem! Finale forces you to choose Chromatic Transposition for each instrument individually, one by one. Plus you must set it in any instrument staff styles you may have, which is a *huge* pain, especially if a client changes their mind about whether or not they want a key signature. You can't even choose an open key score in the Setup Wizard, which would be logical place to put this option. Yes, indeed! Chord symbols attached to chromatically transposing staves don't transpose correctly. (This is an extremely annoying but easily- fixed bug I've been complaining about for over ELEVEN YEARS, to no avail.) The Cautionary Accidentals plugin still does not work correctly on chromatically transposing instruments. The list goes on and on... I know (of course!) about the chords, and the Cautionary Accidental plugin problems, but what else is there? Can you be specific? (This is not challenging; I just want to know about the problems!) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale - now a tunnel-vision Finale 2008 review
On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:32 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Ray, Linked parts takes some getting used to, but it does work pretty well for me. I find TG Tools (the full deal) particularly useful in transferring all or part of a part layout from one part to another (TG Tool menu/modify/transfer), and that takes the place of the way I used to work in extracted parts (using one part as a template for a similar one (emptying the entries and refilling with the new part). There are some irritating things about it (for me) but they are balanced by other efficiencies. As I have often said, the one thing I can't figure out how to do in the linked parts is to place a To Coda symbol in the middle of a MM rest without breaking out one individual measure (5 - 1- 2 for instance, instead of 6 - 2). I attach it to the LEFT barline of bar 7, rather than the RIGHT barline of bar 6. It is already set to break a multimeasure rest. More of a problem is how to attach a DS al Coda to the last measure of a multimeasure rest! I have to attach it in each part and hide it in the score! As jef mentioned, I have also set hidden items to display as a very faint shadow so as not to clutter up my screen. Ray, start by creating a new score with the Setup Wizard. Most of the issues you will have to deal with are then taken care of (like part creation). Read the manual REPEATEDLY from page 37-5, as jef said. I wrote the new navigation commands down on a Post-it attached to my screen until I learned them. I think you will like the linked parts. I wasn't sure at first, but now I love them. Cues are a little fussy, but can be dealt with. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kanji in Finale Mac
On Aug 4, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: Bruce K H Kau wrote: I don't know about Mac, but on the PC platform, the limitation is that Finale doesn't support Unicode. Thanks, Bruce. I figured out what to do. My mistake was trying to copy/paste the characters from a Unicode program into Finale. There is a font on my Mac called Hiragin Myouchou that I think was included when I installed the Japanese international input option. If I set the text font to Hiragin Myouchou before entering the text, then type it directly using the input system (not copy/ paste), Finale displays the kanji correctly. I assume since Finale can handle it, the font must be multibyte UTF-8. Hey, Robert (and others who get bugged by this) Can you send a feature request to MakeMusic to include Unicode support in a future version? This is the one actually NEW feature that I could really use, as the alternative (importing a graphic of the Unicode characters as a shape expression that does not position consistently, or even in a way that can be counted on not to migrate) really sucks. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On Aug 4, 2007, at 8:38 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 08:19 PM 8/4/2007, Bruce E. Clausen wrote: Also, call it petty, as a composer, I resent having to work around having to use key signatures. Though my work is tonal, it is highly chromatic and sigs are annoying. Further, as a horn player, I find it disconcerting to put things into a C score to work around. Have you looked at Finale's chromatic transposition, as opposed to key sig transposition? I use this all the time. It lets me have my clarinets in Bb and horns in F and so forth, all transposed properly, and nobody needs a key signature. Except for chord symbols, which do NOT transpose correctly when Chromatic Transposition is selected in the Staff Attributes. Bug MakeMusic about this! It's been more than TEN YEARS now... Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On Aug 5, 2007, at 6:07 AM, dhbailey wrote: You don't need to use the mouse to do everything in Sibelius any more than you need to use the mouse to do everything in Finale. Unless you're on a Mac, where you need the mouse a lot more than on Windows for Finale. I have long envied Windows users the easy keyboard equivalents they have for menu items. (and yes, I know how to program some of my own, but that won't work on files I get from other people unless I program them in those files, too.) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kanji in Finale Mac
Without in any way excusing Finale's lack of Unicode support, I should clarify that my solution is text-based. That is, I did not have to import the kanji characters as graphics, and their positioning is as consistent as any text block in Finale. Christopher Smith wrote: Hey, Robert (and others who get bugged by this) Can you send a feature request to MakeMusic to include Unicode support in a future version? This is the one actually NEW feature that I could really use, as the alternative (importing a graphic of the Unicode characters as a shape expression that does not position consistently, or even in a way that can be counted on not to migrate) really sucks. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Goodbye Finale
On Sun Aug 5 16:16:39 Christopher Smith wrote: * Previous message: [Finale] Goodbye Finale * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Bob Morabito wrote: On Fri Aug 3 at 14:29:42 , David W. Fenton wrote: It will be interesting to see if the same stubbornness that caused you to refuse to do the Finale tutorials in full will cause you problems learning Sibelius, too. I think comments like the above are best left unsaid--thanks. Normally, I would agree with you, but I don't think you saw the level of the posts we were getting from Will. He demanded high-level help from the list on some admittedly complex issues, but he refused outright to read the pages of the manual we named for him. To paraphrase a well-quoted proverb: The Finale Lists helps those who help themselves. Will might very well be happier with Sibelius. I have no problem with that, as happy is the name of the game here. But I, too, wonder if he will be happy. Christopher To be fair, I did take the time and look at an awful lot of Will's posts, and replies to them--and from what I looked at, i saw no demanding, just respectful requests for help-- and, among others, I saw the following (concerning his very poor eyesight, and then added to that, genuine problems understanding the manual/program) which to me, are more than the normal, valid reasons to seek help, and NOT get (as another poster put it) ragged on. I also see no outright refusal to read the manual, in the normal sense here..just some severe handicaps, which I can understand all too well.. And he DID try to help himself..he came here and asked questions. It must be very difficult for him to do what he's doing, and I commend him, and I hope that he's able to work with Sibelius also.. Good luck, WIll. Thanks for replying, Christopher.. Peace, Bob Morabito [Finale] the manual Will Denayer Tue, 02 Jan 2007 14:55:16 -0800 'Rather than beginning a message with an almost boastful Yes, David, you are right. But I'm doing my best. in response to David Fenton's questioning of whether Will has worked through the tutorials. It doesn't really seem that Will is doing his best ...' Hello David, I understand what you are saying and I appreciate. But, since you don't know me, let me explain. I have been asking rather simple questions here - and always got a pertinent response, for which I am very grateful - because I find it easy. I have big problems reading these days because my eyesight is extremely poor. To read a book (which can lie flat), I use a magnifier with a bulb, but my bulb broke down. Now, you can say, 'buy another bulb' and I ordered some, but this is Ireland and everything goes unbelievably slow here. To work on the computer, I use a headband with magnifying glasses. It's something that jewellers use to set stones or to do very detailed work. The problem with that is that it magnifies only a little area at a time, so all these things are difficult for me. There is no way that I can read pocket scores, not even with a magnifier. I cannot even read full scores (the big Dover format), so I have to copy everything into a bigger format So I will print the manual and copy it, but give me a couple of days. I am in the process of writing something and I really want to go on with it. With best regards, Will [Finale] Goodbye Finale Will Denayer willdenayer at yahoo.ie Sat Aug 4 14:13:44 CDT 2007 * Previous message: [Finale] page text become group name * Next message: [Finale] Goodbye Finale * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] It will be interesting to see if the same stubbornness that caused you to refuse to do the Finale tutorials in full will cause you problems learning Sibelius, too. I was sure that I would get a some sour remarks. I thought it was going to be about the manual (so I'm wrong about that) and about my laziness and I knew that you were going to be the author. Let's have a look. I am writing music in 3/4 and I want to change to 3+2+2/8. So, I am taking my printed version of the manual. OK. There are several choices. Since I do not know how many measures I will need in composite time, I click 'Measure to next time change'. I'm writing in 3+2+2/8 (ms. 4) and now I want out of it. I want 2/4. I open the dialog box again. There's no way to change the thing. It says 'Measure to next time change' (ms. 4). I click ms. 5, nothing happens. Ms. 0? Ms. 15? OK, I did something stupid again. Let's do it over. Btw. The undo and redo options do not work, they are in gray and not in black, I do not know why. OK. This time I am clicking Measure-Through, thinking that if I want to change time I can click on the icon and then on the measure and it will let me change. I'm entering the notes again. Now I want to go to 2/4. Btw, I'm writing this for flute and piano, but since the piano doesn't work I use the harp (OK,
RE: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On 5 Aug 2007 at 11:29, Steve Schow wrote: I haven't been lurking on this list very long, Take that thought and meditate on its implications for a while. but the impression I That's the keyword in everything you've said... have so far is that a large majority of the chatter on here is opinionated conjecture about how bad the bugs in Finale are and why they would so much rather be using Sibelius. You are simply wrong. The discussion of the bugs in Finale is not by any means conjecture, and the severity of them is driving people who've been dedicated to using and Finale for a very long time (I started using Finale in 1991, for instance) to consider switching to the competition. That is a sea change in attitude on this list over the last two years. Finale 2007 and 2008 along with the new plateau reached with Sibelius 4 (and now 5, with it's scroll view) have added two new ingredients to the mix: 1. unacceptably buggy Finale releases 2. enhancements to Sibelius that make it more comfortable for Finale users. These factors changed the equation and have generated the dissatisfaction that you see expressed on this list in recent times. But it's coming from people who are really dedicated Finale users. MakeMusic *better* be paying attention to this forum if they want to survive, or they're going to lose one of their core constituencies. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On 5 Aug 2007 at 17:16, Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Bob Morabito wrote: On Fri Aug 3 at 14:29:42 , David W. Fenton wrote: It will be interesting to see if the same stubbornness that caused you to refuse to do the Finale tutorials in full will cause you problems learning Sibelius, too. I think comments like the above are best left unsaid--thanks. Normally, I would agree with you, but I don't think you saw the level of the posts we were getting from Will. He demanded high-level help from the list on some admittedly complex issues, but he refused outright to read the pages of the manual we named for him. To paraphrase a well-quoted proverb: The Finale Lists helps those who help themselves. Note also that my comment said tutorials not manual. And I distinctly recall Will refusing to do the tutorials when advised to back in December. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
On 30-Jul-07, at 8:40 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: am i correct in thinking the vocal lines should not be op^timized out of piano solo passsages? That is what I like, but according to the overwhelming majority of music I see, the vocal staffs are optimised out. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] can't open online help
Dear Chuck, MakeMusic has owned up to the fact that the help files don't come up with some browsers, and they are working to fix that. There is a work-around. You open your browser, go to the file menu and select OPEN. Then you find Applications/Finale 2008/Help Files/Finale.htm. When the file comes up, you bookmark it. Next time you want the user manual, use the bookmark. Hal Thanks jef, I will set the tone to even lighter than I now have it set, and maybe that will help me to deal with this. Now - another problem: I am trying to find out how to re-size measure reduction using the selection tool (as you used to be able to do with mass edit), and I find I cannot open the online help. Tried using Internet Explorer - though the default browser is Safari. Neither seems to work. I guess that's now two questions. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 11:40 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: chuck, you can change the colour and tone of the hidden elements so they aren't as obtrusive. in fact i have set mine to a light brown colour, so i can better visualize how some elements will appear (in BW) in the parts (that are hidden in the score) without looking at the parts, but light enough to be able to not see them when i am looking at the score. since you do it already in the parts, it would be far more efficient (quicker) to set it once in the score, then hide it in the score and it will appear in all parts. you would only have to set it up once, rather than many times in extracted parts. you can also use a staff list for the measure-assigned symbol and it will only appear in specific parts (and staves in the score). or leave it on all parts (still hidden in the score) and hide it individually in the parts. it depends on how many parts need it which solution would be the best. Hi jef, Yes, that's essentially what I do in extracted parts but, with those, you never see the unused symbol (at least not in page view). I readily admit to personal, emotional irrationality on this issue, but I simply don't like those half tone symbols lurking on the screen in my score. I wish for a more elegant way of doing this, but i can't figure out how it might be implemented. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:27 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: As I have often said, the one thing I can't figure out how to do in the linked parts is to place a To Coda symbol in the middle of a MM rest without breaking out one individual measure (5 - 1- 2 for instance, instead of 6 - 2). assign it in the part to the first measure in the MM rest, hide it in the score / other parts as needed. this can be done very quickly and easily. pp 37-5 to 37-7 of the manual. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Harold Owen 1375 Olive Street #402, Eugene, OR 97401 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen/ FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
Thanks for the scolding. I rest my case. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 5:35 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: RE: [Finale] Goodbye Finale On 5 Aug 2007 at 11:29, Steve Schow wrote: I haven't been lurking on this list very long, Take that thought and meditate on its implications for a while. but the impression I That's the keyword in everything you've said... have so far is that a large majority of the chatter on here is opinionated conjecture about how bad the bugs in Finale are and why they would so much rather be using Sibelius. You are simply wrong. The discussion of the bugs in Finale is not by any means conjecture, and the severity of them is driving people who've been dedicated to using and Finale for a very long time (I started using Finale in 1991, for instance) to consider switching to the competition. That is a sea change in attitude on this list over the last two years. Finale 2007 and 2008 along with the new plateau reached with Sibelius 4 (and now 5, with it's scroll view) have added two new ingredients to the mix: 1. unacceptably buggy Finale releases 2. enhancements to Sibelius that make it more comfortable for Finale users. These factors changed the equation and have generated the dissatisfaction that you see expressed on this list in recent times. But it's coming from people who are really dedicated Finale users. MakeMusic *better* be paying attention to this forum if they want to survive, or they're going to lose one of their core constituencies. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] can't open online help
So, when Finale 2009 come out then? ;-) Harold Owen wrote: Dear Chuck, MakeMusic has owned up to the fact that the help files don't come up with some browsers, and they are working to fix that. There is a work-around. You open your browser, go to the file menu and select OPEN. Then you find Applications/Finale 2008/Help Files/Finale.htm. When the file comes up, you bookmark it. Next time you want the user manual, use the bookmark. Hal ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] can't open online help
Ah! Hal, I had already put this bookmark in for this reason, but I had forgotten it was there. Showing my age. Thank you. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Harold Owen wrote: Dear Chuck, MakeMusic has owned up to the fact that the help files don't come up with some browsers, and they are working to fix that. There is a work-around. You open your browser, go to the file menu and select OPEN. Then you find Applications/Finale 2008/Help Files/Finale.htm. When the file comes up, you bookmark it. Next time you want the user manual, use the bookmark. Hal Thanks jef, I will set the tone to even lighter than I now have it set, and maybe that will help me to deal with this. Now - another problem: I am trying to find out how to re-size measure reduction using the selection tool (as you used to be able to do with mass edit), and I find I cannot open the online help. Tried using Internet Explorer - though the default browser is Safari. Neither seems to work. I guess that's now two questions. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 11:40 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: chuck, you can change the colour and tone of the hidden elements so they aren't as obtrusive. in fact i have set mine to a light brown colour, so i can better visualize how some elements will appear (in BW) in the parts (that are hidden in the score) without looking at the parts, but light enough to be able to not see them when i am looking at the score. since you do it already in the parts, it would be far more efficient (quicker) to set it once in the score, then hide it in the score and it will appear in all parts. you would only have to set it up once, rather than many times in extracted parts. you can also use a staff list for the measure-assigned symbol and it will only appear in specific parts (and staves in the score). or leave it on all parts (still hidden in the score) and hide it individually in the parts. it depends on how many parts need it which solution would be the best. Hi jef, Yes, that's essentially what I do in extracted parts but, with those, you never see the unused symbol (at least not in page view). I readily admit to personal, emotional irrationality on this issue, but I simply don't like those half tone symbols lurking on the screen in my score. I wish for a more elegant way of doing this, but i can't figure out how it might be implemented. Chuck On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:27 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: As I have often said, the one thing I can't figure out how to do in the linked parts is to place a To Coda symbol in the middle of a MM rest without breaking out one individual measure (5 - 1- 2 for instance, instead of 6 - 2). assign it in the part to the first measure in the MM rest, hide it in the score / other parts as needed. this can be done very quickly and easily. pp 37-5 to 37-7 of the manual. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http:// newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http:// newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Harold Owen 1375 Olive Street #402, Eugene, OR 97401 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen/ FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On 05 Aug 2007, at 5:22 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 5, 2007, at 12:21 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Yes, but Finale's Chromatic Transposition is seriously flawed compared to Sibelius's, which allows one-click enabling of the option (Atonal/Open Key is a key signature, a separate key signature choice from C major) But in Sibelius you CAN set some instruments separately to Open Key, like traditional orchestral horn, trumpet and timpani parts, while leaving the others key-based? Yes, of course -- just as you can set certain staves to independent key signatures in Finale. I know (of course!) about the chords, and the Cautionary Accidental plugin problems, but what else is there? Can you be specific? (This is not challenging; I just want to know about the problems!) I was thinking of the 9-flip enharmonic problem in Fin07 and 08. I haven't done any kind of rigorous testing, but my impression is that it's worse on staves set to Chromatic Transposition. In fact, I'm not even sure if I've run into this problem on key-sign based scores. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Goodbye Finale
On Aug 5, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I was thinking of the 9-flip enharmonic problem in Fin07 and 08. I haven't done any kind of rigorous testing, but my impression is that it's worse on staves set to Chromatic Transposition. In fact, I'm not even sure if I've run into this problem on key-sign based scores. I've been keeping my eye out for this (in key sig. based scores) and have not noticed it, but I haven't done any exploding of staves in 2008 yet, so it still could turn up there. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
