Re: [Finale] (was Partial tuplets in Finale)

[arabushk]

I do recall Raymond Lewenthal's "Romantic Revival" that went through at
least three record labels before sputtering out. An Indiana-based pianist
named Frank Cooper did find some good stuff--IIRC he recorded the Ignaz
Brüll 2nd piano concert. But as a whole, the 19th century did produce it's
share of stuff that deserves to be forgotten, as has every time period.

ajr

> On 26 Mar 2008 at 11:20, John Howell wrote:
>
>> back in
>> the '70s someone promoted a Romantic Festival in
>> Indianapolis on the theory that there was gold
>> among the unknown romantic music, and it turned
>> out that there WERE good reasons why they were
>> unknown!
>
> I would be interested to know what was chosen. I think there's a
> helluva lot of romantic music that is completely ignored that is well
> worth performing. There's even more of it in that period from 1820 or
> so to c. 1850, seems to me.
>
> --
> David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
> David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/
>
>
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Re: [Finale] {Fraud?} {Disarmed} HP 500 Duplexer

[Bob Morabito]

LOLOL!
On Mar 27, 2008, at 12:13 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:


On 26 Mar 2008 at 2:30, Bob Morabito wrote:


I believe , according to your post below, that it was
someone else-:Les Marsden--that you had diagnosed, and discussed--and
it turned out to be nothing--

http://www.mail-archive.com/finale@shsu.edu/msg38982.html

Though I haven't seen that  added to any of my posts,  they sure have
been delayed froim being posted MANY MANY hours..but I see others are
having this delaying problem also.



Well, both of your last names to end in "M".


(sorry about confusing you two)

--
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David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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RE: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT

[David W. Fenton]

On 27 Mar 2008 at 0:12, John Howell wrote:

> At 5:18 PM -0500 3/26/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Cut time in 3? Is that the Zeffiro Torna meter?
> 
> Not in the Malipiero edition, if my memory is anywhere close to 
> accurate.  But 3/2 is fairly common in later Baroque music where it's 
> an actual time signature and not a proportion.

I took the reference as referring to the 3/2 vs. 6/4 alternation.

I've never thought of 3/2 as cut time in 3, mostly because cut time 
in the period I'm dealing with usually means *4/2*. The relationships 
between their triple and quadruple meters were really not what we 
would expect.

-- 
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David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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Re: [Finale] TO BUY or not to buy

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Mar 2008 at 22:25, Christopher Smith wrote:

> Major new features in 2008 include linked parts

Linked parts were added in 2007, no?

-- 
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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Mar 2008 at 8:18, Chuck Israels wrote:

> Joe Schwantner writes gorgeous music that I find difficult to read (my  
> limitation - not the notation's) because he makes a point of choosing  
> small note values;

It seems to me that this statement of yours show that you agree with 
my point.

Remember, I wasn't claiming that two meters *can't* be played 
identically, just that they likely will *not* be if there is a clear 
stylistic convention if which the piece is a part.

-- 
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RE: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Mar 2008 at 7:46, Phil Daley wrote:

> At 3/25/2008 12:20 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
>  >On 23 Mar 2008 at 21:55, Owain Sutton wrote:
>  >
>  >> (Why notate anything as 2/2, if it's likely to be heard as 2/4?)
>  >
>  >This kind of comment makes me crazy.
>  >
>  >You notate it as 2/2 because MUSICIANS PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY PLAY 
> 2/4.
> 
> Why?  Or should I say how?
> 
> That comment makes absolutely no sense to me.

Haven't you worked with music that is in the "wrong" meter? And run 
onto the problems it causes in getting it performed properly?

I see this all the time in the music I play, where modern editions 
often halve (and quarter) the original note values. It's harder to 
play for anyone who is comfortable in the style.

Christopher gave the example from jazz (sorry I earlier said it was 
Darcy), and it's completely consistent with everything I know about 
the subject.

Mozart began a draft of a movement of one of his string quartets in 
cut time. He then scratched it out and started over in 2/4. While the 
music had the same thematic material, it ended up with a different 
bass line, and a completely different musical texture than what was 
implied in the original.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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Re: [Finale] TAN Mac question

[A-NO-NE Music]

Lawrence David Eden / 08.3.26 / 7:12 AM wrote:

>Yes.  I can use the mouse and select QUIT from the FILE MENU.
>In Finale, I can no longer use COMMAND~ to change from Scroll to Page 
>view.  I must go to the menu with the mouse.  Very strange.

For the record, I loose Quit menu every so often under Leo regardless of
PPC/Intel, and is not limited to Finale.  I said it wrong that the menu
go missing is Finale menu, not File menu, and Quit menu is under Finale menu.

The consistency I am seeing here is that apps those which are forced to
port into XCode from CW due to Leopard support seems to be showing this
problem from my other beta testing experiences.  Altho I don't know for
the fact when Finale was ported from CW to XCode.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 



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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Mar 2008 at 6:39, dhbailey wrote:

> David W. Fenton wrote:
> > On 23 Mar 2008 at 21:55, Owain Sutton wrote:
> > 
> >> (Why
> >> notate anything as 2/2, if it's likely to be heard as 2/4?)
> > 
> > This kind of comment makes me crazy.
> > 
> > You notate it as 2/2 because MUSICIANS PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE 
> > PLAY 2/4.
> > 
> > Certain styles of music make more sense in 2/2 than they would in 4/4 
> > or 2/4.
> 
> You can really hear a difference in music performed in 2/4 rather than 
> 2/2? 

You know perfectly well that's not what I said!

>  Come on, now, put yourself in an audience and write the meters 
> down that you hear, and I'll be that your movements in 2 will be correct 
> half the time and wrong half the time, assuming you've never seen the 
> printed music before.

Red herring.

> What's the performing difference when dividing the beat in half, if 
> using a half-note pulse and playing quarter notes or using a 
> quarter-note pulse and playing 8th notes?  A beat divided in half is a 
> beat divided in half. Isn't it?

Because musicians respond differently the notation. They play 2/4 
differently than they play 2/2 (unless they are insensitive clods, of 
course).

Darcy gave some examples of exactly this from jazz with regard to 
swing on various subdivisions. The same holds true for other periods 
of music. I deal with this issue all the time with editions of 
Renaissance music that "helpfully" reduce the note values, and, 
frankly, once you're accustomed to the original note values (or, 
rather, in most cases, half the original note values), it's *harder* 
to play it in the "modern" note values.

I may not be able to say whether a player is reading 2/4 or 2/2, but 
I'll be there will be a difference between how that same player 
performs the same music notated in the two different meters.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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Re: [Finale] {Fraud?} {Disarmed} HP 500 Duplexer

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Mar 2008 at 2:30, Bob Morabito wrote:

> I believe , according to your post below, that it was  
> someone else-:Les Marsden--that you had diagnosed, and discussed--and  
> it turned out to be nothing--
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/finale@shsu.edu/msg38982.html
> 
> Though I haven't seen that  added to any of my posts,  they sure have  
> been delayed froim being posted MANY MANY hours..but I see others are  
> having this delaying problem also.


Well, both of your last names to end in "M".


(sorry about confusing you two)

-- 
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David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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Re: [Finale] (was Partial tuplets in Finale)

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Mar 2008 at 11:20, John Howell wrote:

> back in 
> the '70s someone promoted a Romantic Festival in 
> Indianapolis on the theory that there was gold 
> among the unknown romantic music, and it turned 
> out that there WERE good reasons why they were 
> unknown!

I would be interested to know what was chosen. I think there's a 
helluva lot of romantic music that is completely ignored that is well 
worth performing. There's even more of it in that period from 1820 or 
so to c. 1850, seems to me.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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RE: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT

[John Howell]

At 5:18 PM -0500 3/26/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Cut time in 3? Is that the Zeffiro Torna meter?


Not in the Malipiero edition, if my memory is anywhere close to 
accurate.  But 3/2 is fairly common in later Baroque music where it's 
an actual time signature and not a proportion.


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Re: [Finale] (was Partial tuplets in Finale)

[David W. Fenton]

On 26 Mar 2008 at 6:34, dhbailey wrote:

> How do you know that the symphonies which were lost were real crap, and 
> not just stuff that the musicians of the day couldn't be bothered 
> mastering and so they dismissed it as unplayable.

Well, even I wouldn't go that far.

But there is a point in there. I remembering having to listen to 
Sammartini's music (both of them, actually) in music history classes 
and thinking YWWNN! Then I heard Ensemble 415's recording 
of their music, and it was a revelation -- they made it sound 
exciting and interesting.

It's no hard music from the standpoint of notes and rhythms, but in 
terms of style, it's not obvious, and most of the recordings 
available back when I was a conservatory student were of C-grade 
orchestras basically sight-reading this stuff.

Another good example of this is Bamert's series of "contemporaries of 
Mozart," which has a lot of stuff you've never heard of, but so 
beautifully prepared and recorded that you realize we are missing a 
whole helluva lot by not have Kozeluch and Pleyel and others in our 
modern repertory.

Much of the French baroque is a victim of this same problem, in that 
the content of the music is (rather like jazz, in fact) far above the 
notes written on the page. It require and intimate understanding of 
the style, the rhetoric and of the ornamentation, in order to get it 
off the page. Otherwise it sounds completely boring and disposable.

When played properly, it's some of the most delicious repertory ever 
written (in my opinion).


-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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Re: [Finale] TO BUY or not to buy

[Eric Dannewitz]

Actually, 2007 has Linked Parts. And it is Universal Binary on the Mac
side (first version to be so I think).

2008 would be a good buy if you had a Mac. The Leopard support is
good, and the ability to have a quick view of docs is nice to have.
And it is stable. But, since summer is almost here, and Finale comes
out with new versions around July or so, I'd really put off buying it
unless MakeMusic is going to offer some sort of cheaper upgrade path
for you.

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Christopher Smith
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Nancy L Schoen wrote:
>
>  > I am returning to this list after a long hiatus, and am still using
>  > 2005a.
>  > (My first upgrade from 1997, so am still enamored with how great it is
>  > compared to that!) I, too, have wondered whether or not to update, and
>  > really appreciate the candid remarks about new and old bugs. :)
>
>  Hmm, I don't remember 2005 so well now, but I remember that 2006 was
>  a good version that I was very happy with.
>
>  Major new features in 2008 include linked parts (yay!) and being able
>  to use any document as a template to create a new document with the
>  same settings. Also audio tracks. Also I remember 2007 was a major
>  speed improvement on my old Mac. Also the basic defaults are better
>  than they were, and if you like better playback, Garritan and Human
>  Playback are a good combo. I would do it, in your shoes, but I am a
>  total slut for new versions...
>
>  Christopher
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] TO BUY or not to buy

[Christopher Smith]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Nancy L Schoen wrote:

I am returning to this list after a long hiatus, and am still using  
2005a.

(My first upgrade from 1997, so am still enamored with how great it is
compared to that!) I, too, have wondered whether or not to update, and
really appreciate the candid remarks about new and old bugs. :)


Hmm, I don't remember 2005 so well now, but I remember that 2006 was  
a good version that I was very happy with.


Major new features in 2008 include linked parts (yay!) and being able  
to use any document as a template to create a new document with the  
same settings. Also audio tracks. Also I remember 2007 was a major  
speed improvement on my old Mac. Also the basic defaults are better  
than they were, and if you like better playback, Garritan and Human  
Playback are a good combo. I would do it, in your shoes, but I am a  
total slut for new versions...


Christopher



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RE: [Finale] TO BUY or not to buy

[Nancy L Schoen]

I am returning to this list after a long hiatus, and am still using 2005a.
(My first upgrade from 1997, so am still enamored with how great it is
compared to that!) I, too, have wondered whether or not to update, and
really appreciate the candid remarks about new and old bugs. :)

Thanks!
Nancy in Nebraska


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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale

[Noel Stoutenburg]

John Howell wrote:

Quite correct, except for one thing.  The term (French) is 
"violoncello." 



I knew better. My story, and I'm sticking to it, is that the "i" is 
right next to the "o".


ns
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RE: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[arabushk]

Cut time in 3? Is that the Zeffiro Torna meter?

ajr

> At 12:20 AM -0400 3/25/08, David W. Fenton wrote:
>>On 23 Mar 2008 at 21:55, Owain Sutton wrote:
>>
>>>  (Why
>>>  notate anything as 2/2, if it's likely to be heard as 2/4?)
>>
>>This kind of comment makes me crazy.
>>
>>You notate it as 2/2 because MUSICIANS PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE
>>PLAY 2/4.
>>
>>Certain styles of music make more sense in 2/2 than they would in 4/4
>>or 2/4.
>
> I've got to back David up on this.  In baroque chamber music we run
> into meters like 3/2 and 3/8 fairly often.  My students deal pretty
> well with 3/8 (and even with inserted bars of 3/4 intended to make a
> hemiola VERY obvious, once we figured it out), but cut time in 3
> throws many of them.  Yeah, they're students and not professionals,
> and *I* don't have trouble with those meters, but they've been
> playing quarter note based music their entire musical lives.
>
> John
>
>
> --
> John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
> Virginia Tech Department of Music
> College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
> Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
> Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
> (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
> http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
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Re: [Finale] (was Partial tuplets in Finale)

[John Howell]

At 1:19 AM -0400 3/26/08, David W. Fenton wrote:

On 24 Mar 2008 at 22:49, shirling & neueweise wrote:


 of the
 thousands of symphonies written up to the mid-late 1800s, how many
 still survive?


Of the thousands of orally composed songs of the troubadours, how
many survive today? Actually, NONE OF THEM. But survival says nothing
about anything other than SURVIVAL.


I have to disagree here.  SOME trobador songs 
survive, despite the depredations of the 
Albegensian Crusade.  MORE trouvère songs 
survive, because they were on the winning side. 
But if you mean that they survived in a very 
bare-bones notation that tells us absolutely 
nothing about how they might have been actually 
performed, then of course you're right.  And 
that's true all the way up to and including Adam 
de la Halle (or Machaut, if you consider him the 
last of the trouvères).  The work that Tom 
Binkley and Studio did on this repertoire was 
pretty much groundbreaking, and extremely 
important.





 part of this reason has to do wioth economics and
 politics, but part of it is because they were just shit and not worth
 preserving :-P . 


I think this is completely wrong. Anyone who has examined a
significant amount of a cross section of the music of a past period
finds some surprisingly interesting stuff in the "discard" pile.


Sure, and the Graupner that Kim Patrick is 
editing and the Muffat someone else is editing 
are REALLY interesting.  And they should be, 
considering that Graupner was better thought of 
than was J.S. Bach!  On the other hand, back in 
the '70s someone promoted a Romantic Festival in 
Indianapolis on the theory that there was gold 
among the unknown romantic music, and it turned 
out that there WERE good reasons why they were 
unknown!


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

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RE: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[John Howell]

At 12:20 AM -0400 3/25/08, David W. Fenton wrote:

On 23 Mar 2008 at 21:55, Owain Sutton wrote:


 (Why
 notate anything as 2/2, if it's likely to be heard as 2/4?)


This kind of comment makes me crazy.

You notate it as 2/2 because MUSICIANS PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE
PLAY 2/4.

Certain styles of music make more sense in 2/2 than they would in 4/4
or 2/4.


I've got to back David up on this.  In baroque chamber music we run 
into meters like 3/2 and 3/8 fairly often.  My students deal pretty 
well with 3/8 (and even with inserted bars of 3/4 intended to make a 
hemiola VERY obvious, once we figured it out), but cut time in 3 
throws many of them.  Yeah, they're students and not professionals, 
and *I* don't have trouble with those meters, but they've been 
playing quarter note based music their entire musical lives.


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
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Re: [Finale] TAN: Brian Ferneyhough--Lemma icon epigram

[Bob Morabito]

The best of luck with the performance--please let us know how it goes--

Bob Morabito
On Mar 26, 2008, at 11:44 AM, shirling & neueweise wrote:



those are the guys i'm working with this week!


I happen to really enjoy and admire Brian Ferneyhough's work--and  
I happened to find this entire piece online,though I would also  
have loved to find some complete movements of his String Quartets.

http://asamisimasa.com/sound.htm



sorry to have to drop out of this discussion, but computer is going  
in shop and i'm going in a plane in the next hours!


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Re: [Finale] TO BUY or not to buy

[Brian Williams]

If you paste or insert data including time signature changes from
Finale-opened MIDI files into a new file, you'll have to go through a few
extra steps in 2008 because they revised the way music is selected and
copied when they introduced the concept of "measure stacks". However, they
did fix a bunch of long-standing bugs in the update.

Brian Williams

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:00:20 -0500
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Finale Digest, Vol 56, Issue 26
> 
> OK guys. I want to see a show of hands. I have MacFin07 and I'm
> contemplating upgrading to 2008. My question: IS IT WORTH IT? Or am I
> buying in to more trouble than it's worth?
> I've seen so many negative things here on the List (although I
> haven't monitored it every day, thus my question.
> All the best,
> KIM R
> 
> PS- my latest problem is (and I'm sure this has been addressed) is
> that the staff styles I've entered into the score do not appear in
> the linked parts. Also, many of the multi-measure rests.

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Re: [Finale] TAN: Brian Ferneyhough--Lemma icon epigram

[Christopher Smith]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 1:12 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:


I am trying to keep an open mind in this discussion (and tried to  
listen, too, but the sound files wouldn't work for me).




Both WMV Player (a QuickTime add-on) and Windows Media Player played  
the files correctly without hassle on my end. I think they are both  
free (I honestly don't remember now.) The volume is rather low in the  
file, however.


Also MPlayer OSX worked. This is a real fine utility that will play  
almost any video or audio media I have ever come across. I am still  
on OS 10.4, so I hope these apps still work for you on 10.5!


christopher



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Re: [Finale] TAN: Brian Ferneyhough--Lemma icon epigram

[Darcy James Argue]

The so-called 'irrational' measure lengths, i.e. those based on  
beats expressed in terms of fractions of full beats in the  
prevailing tempo, thus giving rise to such time signatures as 3/10  
or 5/24, are useful as local 'dissonances' serving to refocus  
attention and instantiate reassessment of the prevailing temporal  
perspective.



I am trying to keep an open mind in this discussion (and tried to  
listen, too, but the sound files wouldn't work for me).


But -- and this has nothing to do with the merit of the music of  
course -- when composers say stuff like that it makes me want to punch  
them in the teeth.


"Instantiate reassessment of the prevailing temporal perspective" my  
ass. What an absurdly pretentious turn of phrase. Christopher's  
parsing is absolutely right ("makes the audience wonder where the beat  
is"), but that would sound insufficiently *serious*.


Again, nothing to do with the music itself, but that kind of language  
really rubs me wrong.


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] (was Partial tuplets in Finale)

[Mariposa Symphony Orchestra]

David Bailey, quoting and responding to jef chippewa (I believe) noted:

> 
> sure there is a lot of crap out there; there was a lot of crap written 
> in mozart's time too (and from his own hand), of the thousands of 
> symphonies written up to the mid-late 1800s, how many still survive?  
> part of this reason has to do wioth economics and politics, but part of 
> it is because they were just shit and not worth preserving :-P .  but i 

You get no argument from me about that, except that by your argument, if 
it's shit it's because nobody bothered to master it.  Isn't that your 
contention in this thread -- that most people who dismiss the modernists 
like Ferneyhough have mostly failed to learn how to master it and 
dismiss it as unplayable for that very reason?  Or is it okay to dismiss 
music of the past as crap yet not to be allowed to make a personal 
decision on recent music using the same criteria?

How do you know that the symphonies which were lost were real crap, and 
not just stuff that the musicians of the day couldn't be bothered 
mastering and so they dismissed it as unplayable.

@@@

Actually, recent musicology has produced references to lost works which were 
potential stinkers; AFAIK, no scores or parts have been found but most scholars 
agree these works were destroyed or recalled by their composers:

  Mozart: The Jupiturd Symphony
  Debussy: La Merde
  Handel: The Water Closet Music
  Berg: Three Feces for Orchestra
  Stravinsky: The Fireturd
  Wagner: The Good Friday Smell from Parsifart
  Bartok: Dungarian Sketches
  Webern: Funf Plotze

I'm sure others will come to light, but hopefully - only apocryphal references 
and not actual performances. 

Ducking back out of sight, 
 
Les Marsden
(209) 966-6988
New Cell: (559) 708-6027
7145 Snyder Creek Road
Mariposa, CA  95338-9641

Founding Music Director and Conductor, 
The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
Music and Mariposa?  Ah, Paradise!!!
 
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html 
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Re: [Finale] TAN: Brian Ferneyhough--Lemma icon epigram

[shirling & neueweise]

those are the guys i'm working with this week!


I happen to really enjoy and admire Brian Ferneyhough's work--and I 
happened to find this entire piece online,though I would also have 
loved to find some complete movements of his String Quartets.

http://asamisimasa.com/sound.htm



sorry to have to drop out of this discussion, but computer is going 
in shop and i'm going in a plane in the next hours!


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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[Chuck Israels]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 4:38 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:



I know what he means, if I could jump in here. The listener might  
not make a distinction, but the performer reading it might react  
differently. In a previous post (I don't know if it made it to the  
board yet!) I had made a comparison using jazz, where it is easy to  
get eighth notes to swing in 4/4, but hard to get quarter notes to  
swing in 4/2 or


Dear Christopher,

Sometime around 1960, Jim Hall wrote a piece for jazz players and  
string quartet that was notated in half notes where we would have  
expected quarters.  It took us all of a minute or two to get used to  
it.  There is an existing recording (George Shuller has it), and I  
defy anyone to hear the notation anomaly.  Those things can put a  
temporary hitch in  the performer's brain, but aural conventions do  
(and should) prevail.


Joe Schwantner writes gorgeous music that I find difficult to read (my  
limitation - not the notation's) because he makes a point of choosing  
small note values; things a jazz musician would expect in quarters and  
eighths turn up in sixteenths and 32nds.  I don't believe it makes a  
bit of difference to those who are used to the convention.  It still  
sounds something like an orchestration of Bill Evans' most  
sophisticated and adventurous playing.


As I said in an earlier email I tried to post (but it didn't come  
through, for some reason), nothing significant changed when France  
changed 500 francs to 5 francs.


sixteenths to swing in 4/8. Some styles of music enter the  
performer's brain more easily in a certain notation, according to  
what we are used to. The composer can choose to ignore these  
conventions, but he may be putting up a barrier to easy  
interpretation of his music.


I agree with this.  Schwantner says he wants that barrier, though I  
can't, for the life of me, understand why.  It does make his music  
"look" like complicated "contemporary" music, even if it sounds more  
accessible than much of that stuff.  Maybe he has something there.  He  
has certainly had professional success in the contemporary "classical"  
community by making his music notation agree with its conventions.


(An interesting exception to the jazz swing convention: the tune All  
Blues, which for some odd reason is usually notated in 6/8 with  
swing 16ths, rather than the more conventional 6/4 with swung 8ths  
(like two bars of jazz waltz). Nutty.)


And now, to contradict myself, my arrangement of this piece is written  
in 6/4, because I'd never seen it notated, and that seemed right to  
me.  Go figure.


Chuck








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230 North Garden Terrace
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phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[Christopher Smith]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 9:05 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:


Phil Daley / 08.3.26 / 7:46 AM wrote:

Why?  Or should I say how?

That comment makes absolutely no sense to me.


It does make sense to me as well as it did to Christopher.  I think  
the

key here is "style" as in "culture".

Christopher Smith / 08.3.26 / 7:38 AM wrote:

(An interesting exception to the jazz swing convention: the tune All
Blues, which for some odd reason is usually notated in 6/8 with swing
16ths, rather than the more conventional 6/4 with swung 8ths (like
two bars of jazz waltz). Nutty.)


Well, I must disagree on this, tho.  Unless the style is jazz  
waltz, you

don't swing 3/4 as 1, 2, 3.  You swing on the downbeat only.  I can't
stand when unknown drummer swing on 1, 2, 3 on my compositions  
because I

don't write jazz waltz.  In the same context, you want to swing in 2
beats on All Blues, so 6/8 is much more logical than 6/4 to me.  I  
hope

I am making a sense here.





I think there are a lot of different ways to swing a jazz waltz, and  
a straight 3 (or 6, if you are thinking 2 bars at a time, like All  
Blues) is certainly one of them.


My point was more along the lines of the subdivision, being that if  
All Blues is notated in 6/8, then the bass player is walking even  
8ths and everyone else is swinging the 16ths. THAT is the unusual  
thing about the notation of that tune. It is completely out of  
character of the notation of almost every other jazz tune.


And actually, now that I think about it, I am wrong about All Blues  
being unique. Mingus' "Better Get It In Your Soul", recorded first in  
1959, roughly the same time as All Blues, was described by him as  
being in 6/8 AND as a jazz waltz, though Andrew Homzy re-notated it  
in the more conventional 6/4 in his More Than A Fakebook. And THAT  
tune certainly changes feels, though not meter, during each  
performance I have heard on recording (I have about three recordings  
done spanning 20 years or so).


Christopher



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Re: [Finale] Copying staff names between files

[Fiskum, Steve]

Hello Dennis,

Maybe Robert Patterson's "Settings Scrapbook" would do the trick. The
unfortunate side of this plug-in is that it will not just copy the staff
name attributes and distance. It will also...
1. add staves if the source file has more staves than the file you are
trying to transform.
2. will adjust the distance between staves to match the distances of the
source file's.
3. it will copy the source file's entire staff attribute information into
those staves.

If you're OK with that then this should work well for you.

Hope that helps,
Steve


3/26/08 6:35 AM, "dc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Trying again, because yesterday's message doesn't seem to have made it to
> the list.
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Is there any way (native, or plug-in) to copy the staff names (with all
> their font and spacing attributes) from one file to another?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dennis 
> 
> 
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> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[Christopher Smith]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 9:40 AM, dhbailey wrote:


Christopher Smith wrote:
[snip]> (An interesting exception to the jazz swing convention: the  
tune All
Blues, which for some odd reason is usually notated in 6/8 with  
swing 16ths, rather than the more conventional 6/4 with swung 8ths  
(like two bars of jazz waltz). Nutty.)


But demonstrating that people can swing in meters other than 4/4.  :-)


Oh, I never said they COULDN'T, I just said you are putting up a  
barrier to the easiest communication if you want swung anything-but- 
eighths. I'm not that absolute. I would rather my musicians spend the  
saved CPU cycles on playing musically and making contact with the  
moment.


Besides which, hardly anyone actually READS All Blues except for the  
first time. They know it after that. It's not that hard a tune.


Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Midi Key Velocities (Auto Dynamic Placement Plug in con't) A FOLLOW UP

[Bob Morabito]

After very much wasted  time and effort, here is what was found:

This plugin does not give you a  dynamic, according to a  
supervisor at MM support, tho I've seen it in my scores.


What it  does do is to take your midi velocities--and based upon the  
settings in Expression Selections (I used the defaults), it  
arbitrarily increases or decreases their value, and then bases the  
dynamics for the score on THOSE new values, NOT your original key  
velocities.


This makes NO sense to me.

Two small documented examples:

I have  an on key velocity of 74--  presubably we should get a mp  
marking..(range 62-74)..
yet this plug in FIRST CHANGES that velocity to 124, and then Finale   
places the dynamic..as !!!


Another one -on key vel= 89,  which sould be a forte (range 88-100)-
HOWEVER,  this time Fin REDUCES it to 74, which again, SHOULD be a  
mp, but FIn notates it as mf.



I wanted it --expected it--to base the dynamics on the velocities in  
the original midi file, WITHOUT changing them--so in the above  
examples I would have gotten an mp for the on vel of 74, and a forte  
for the 89.
Some of the changes are  3x larger in numeric value, with other  
values, even higher,  all over the place, .



As has happened before, I provided documents to prove what I was  
saying at which point, they cant argue it, and try to bully me into  
believing it works correctly, just "doesn't do what I want it to do",  
and then basically dismiss me and the support request.


And they'll "speak to the developers on my behalf".

I am following up with a letter too MM, as I want things to work as  
advertised, and Im tired of proving thinsg are screwy, only to be  
ignored...-

it probably wont do ANY good, but at least I;ll know I tried.

Thanks
Bob Morabito







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Re: [Finale] TAN: Brian Ferneyhough--Lemma icon epigram

[Christopher Smith]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Bob Morabito wrote:


This is a discussion with the composer--he talks about this piece,  
and irrational measure lengths, etc:

http://www.sospeso.com/contents/articles/ferneyhough_p1.html

The so-called 'irrational' measure lengths, i.e. those based on  
beats expressed in terms of fractions of full beats in the  
prevailing tempo, thus giving rise to such time signatures as 3/10  
or 5/24, are useful as local 'dissonances' serving to refocus  
attention and instantiate reassessment of the prevailing temporal  
perspective.



Translation: "makes the audience wonder where the beat is." 8-)

Thanks for the links, Bob. Fascinating stuff.

Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[dhbailey]

Christopher Smith wrote:
[snip]> (An interesting exception to the jazz swing convention: the tune 
All
Blues, which for some odd reason is usually notated in 6/8 with swing 
16ths, rather than the more conventional 6/4 with swung 8ths (like two 
bars of jazz waltz). Nutty.)


But demonstrating that people can swing in meters other than 4/4.  :-)

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[A-NO-NE Music]

Phil Daley / 08.3.26 / 7:46 AM wrote:
>Why?  Or should I say how?
>
>That comment makes absolutely no sense to me.

It does make sense to me as well as it did to Christopher.  I think the
key here is "style" as in "culture".

Christopher Smith / 08.3.26 / 7:38 AM wrote:
>(An interesting exception to the jazz swing convention: the tune All  
>Blues, which for some odd reason is usually notated in 6/8 with swing  
>16ths, rather than the more conventional 6/4 with swung 8ths (like  
>two bars of jazz waltz). Nutty.)

Well, I must disagree on this, tho.  Unless the style is jazz waltz, you
don't swing 3/4 as 1, 2, 3.  You swing on the downbeat only.  I can't
stand when unknown drummer swing on 1, 2, 3 on my compositions because I
don't write jazz waltz.  In the same context, you want to swing in 2
beats on All Blues, so 6/8 is much more logical than 6/4 to me.  I hope
I am making a sense here.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 



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[Finale] TAN: Brian Ferneyhough--Lemma icon epigram

[Bob Morabito]

I happen to really enjoy and admire Brian Ferneyhough's work--and I  
happened to find this entire piece online,though I would also have  
loved to find some complete movements of his String Quartets.


http://asamisimasa.com/sound.htm

Direct Download link:
http://asamisimasa.com/music/s005.wma

Brian Ferneyhough--Lemma icon epigram, solo piano

This piece is from 1981--this recording has a REALLY long pause in  
the beginning before starting( about 20 seconds!)--and on a Mac I had  
to control click and "save link as" to d/l it.


This is the first page of the score-
http://tinyurl.com/2ejbtk

This is a discussion with the composer--he talks about this piece,  
and irrational measure lengths, etc:

http://www.sospeso.com/contents/articles/ferneyhough_p1.html

The so-called 'irrational' measure lengths, i.e. those based on  
beats expressed in terms of fractions of full beats in the  
prevailing tempo, thus giving rise to such time signatures as 3/10  
or 5/24, are useful as local 'dissonances' serving to refocus  
attention and instantiate reassessment of the prevailing temporal  
perspective. A somewhat distant analogy would be the metric  
modulations typical of Elliott Carter's music, where a steady pulse  
in one tempo would continue across at exactly the same perceived  
rate in a new tempo, albeit notated differently, thus providing the  
performers with a constant unit of measurement when undertaking  
complex series of tempo modifications. I said earlier that these  
pulses are not normally present to the same degree in my own  
practice or, at most, are present only fleetingly through two  
adjacent measures. I find that such 'irrational' measures serve as  
a useful buffer between local changes of event density and actual  
changes of base tempo, which latter I interpret as being a more  
thorough-going radical intervention. Other composers have taken  
this particular technique much further than I in the meantime, with  
the result that the Law of Diminishing Returns has begun to apply.


Bob Morabito


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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[YATESLAWRENCE]

I hate to argue with David, but as a performer I know that playing  something 
in 2/4 and in 2/2 definitely feels different.  I'm not sure I  have enough 
brain cells to work out why, or what it is that I do differently,  but there is 
a difference.
 
Sorry.
 
Lawrence
 
lawrenceyates.co.uk



   
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RE: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[Phil Daley]

At 3/25/2008 12:20 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:

>On 23 Mar 2008 at 21:55, Owain Sutton wrote:
>
>> (Why notate anything as 2/2, if it's likely to be heard as 2/4?)
>
>This kind of comment makes me crazy.
>
>You notate it as 2/2 because MUSICIANS PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY PLAY 
2/4.


Why?  Or should I say how?

That comment makes absolutely no sense to me.

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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[Christopher Smith]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 6:39 AM, dhbailey wrote:


David W. Fenton wrote:

On 23 Mar 2008 at 21:55, Owain Sutton wrote:

(Why
notate anything as 2/2, if it's likely to be heard as 2/4?)

This kind of comment makes me crazy.
You notate it as 2/2 because MUSICIANS PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY THAN  
THE PLAY 2/4.
Certain styles of music make more sense in 2/2 than they would in  
4/4 or 2/4.


You can really hear a difference in music performed in 2/4 rather  
than 2/2?   Come on, now, put yourself in an audience and write the  
meters down that you hear, and I'll be that your movements in 2  
will be correct half the time and wrong half the time, assuming  
you've never seen the printed music before.


What's the performing difference when dividing the beat in half, if  
using a half-note pulse and playing quarter notes or using a  
quarter-note pulse and playing 8th notes?  A beat divided in half  
is a beat divided in half. Isn't it?


I know what he means, if I could jump in here. The listener might not  
make a distinction, but the performer reading it might react  
differently. In a previous post (I don't know if it made it to the  
board yet!) I had made a comparison using jazz, where it is easy to  
get eighth notes to swing in 4/4, but hard to get quarter notes to  
swing in 4/2 or sixteenths to swing in 4/8. Some styles of music  
enter the performer's brain more easily in a certain notation,  
according to what we are used to. The composer can choose to ignore  
these conventions, but he may be putting up a barrier to easy  
interpretation of his music.


Christopher

(An interesting exception to the jazz swing convention: the tune All  
Blues, which for some odd reason is usually notated in 6/8 with swing  
16ths, rather than the more conventional 6/4 with swung 8ths (like  
two bars of jazz waltz). Nutty.)



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Re: [Finale] Partial tuplets in Finale - slightly OT, Ferneyhough

[dhbailey]

David W. Fenton wrote:

On 23 Mar 2008 at 21:55, Owain Sutton wrote:


(Why
notate anything as 2/2, if it's likely to be heard as 2/4?)


This kind of comment makes me crazy.

You notate it as 2/2 because MUSICIANS PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE 
PLAY 2/4.


Certain styles of music make more sense in 2/2 than they would in 4/4 
or 2/4.




You can really hear a difference in music performed in 2/4 rather than 
2/2?   Come on, now, put yourself in an audience and write the meters 
down that you hear, and I'll be that your movements in 2 will be correct 
half the time and wrong half the time, assuming you've never seen the 
printed music before.


What's the performing difference when dividing the beat in half, if 
using a half-note pulse and playing quarter notes or using a 
quarter-note pulse and playing 8th notes?  A beat divided in half is a 
beat divided in half. Isn't it?




--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] TAN Mac question

[Lawrence David Eden]

Yes.  I can use the mouse and select QUIT from the FILE MENU.
In Finale, I can no longer use COMMAND~ to change from Scroll to Page 
view.  I must go to the menu with the mouse.  Very strange.





Lawrence David Eden / 08.3.25 / 6:24 AM wrote:


Something has caused my basic keyboard shortcuts to stop working.
For example, if I want to quit an application, I use COMMAND Q.  This
no longer works...and I don't know why.


When this happens, is the file menu still present, and can you exit from
the menu?

--

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 



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Re: [Finale] (was Partial tuplets in Finale)

[dhbailey]

shirling & neueweise wrote:


But at the heart of any music, new or old, complicated or simple, lies 
John's question.  For some, the music of Ferneyhough is just such a 
music that makes them say "Wow, that's a challenge and I love a 
challenge and I'm going to master this and show the old farts that 
it's nothing to be afraid of" while for others even after working at 
it for a while there's a feeling of "why am I doing this?"


and -- holy crap can you believe it!? -- there are the people who really 
like the music and decide they want to play it, whatever it takes... 
again, the rachmaninoff example is another similar case in point.


i've met performers who really enjoy playing ferneyhough.

and i would never deny that there could be composers who simply write 
difficult things for the sake of difficulty.  but how about some 
real-world examples instead of vacuous accusations?


What vacuous accusations?  I'm just pleading for allowing those who 
don't like a particular piece or composer to be allowed not to like it, 
without any disparagement to them.


I'm just as ready to let people who like certain pieces or composers to 
like them without wondering why in the world they would like them, no 
matter what I think of the music or the composer.


What in my post was an accusation?  I have no problems with anybody 
enjoying Ferneyhough, nor do I have any problems with people who don't 
like either playing or hearing his music.






sure there is a lot of crap out there; there was a lot of crap written 
in mozart's time too (and from his own hand), of the thousands of 
symphonies written up to the mid-late 1800s, how many still survive?  
part of this reason has to do wioth economics and politics, but part of 
it is because they were just shit and not worth preserving :-P .  but i 


You get no argument from me about that, except that by your argument, if 
it's shit it's because nobody bothered to master it.  Isn't that your 
contention in this thread -- that most people who dismiss the modernists 
like Ferneyhough have mostly failed to learn how to master it and 
dismiss it as unplayable for that very reason?  Or is it okay to dismiss 
music of the past as crap yet not to be allowed to make a personal 
decision on recent music using the same criteria?


How do you know that the symphonies which were lost were real crap, and 
not just stuff that the musicians of the day couldn't be bothered 
mastering and so they dismissed it as unplayable.





wouldn't simply state that mozart was a cheeseball composer because of 
some fluffy things he wrote early on, and i would expect the same kind 
of treatment of the music of today from professionally-trained musicians 
(regardless of their interest in the music), rather than flatulent 
arguments founded on nothing but hot air... random claims that X music 
is not playable only shows the limits of musical experiences the person 
saying it has had the chance to participate in.  i'm not saying everyone 
should play this stuff, but don't accuse it of being unplayable just 
because you have no interest in the music and remain consciously 
ignorant of just how much this music really is being played.




I haven't accused anybody's music of being unplayable.  It's all 
playable, given the proper impetus on the part of a musician to dig 
deeply enough to learn how to play it.  My point is that, for me, there 
has to be something other than "It's been written, therefore I have to 
master it before I can pass judgement on it" to compel me to investigate 
further.  There's too much music around to be able to do that for every 
composer and every composition.  For some (many?) the music of 
Ferneyhough is compelling enough to put that sort of effort into it, and 
that's fine.  I have no problem with that and certainly don't dismiss 
any composer's music for anybody other than myself.  I have limited time 
and have already spent too much of it on music which turned out to be 
worthless for me.  Walter Hartley's music is one such body of work. 
Admittedly I haven't played nor listened to all of his music, but the 
pieces I have investigated have proven to do nothing for me.  So I won't 
investigate further.  Tracey Rush's music moves me from the first note, 
so I will play every one of her works which I can.  Elizabeth Pizer is 
another composer whose music moves me from the start and so I will 
investigate as much of her music as I can, but her husband's music, 
while well crafted, leaves me emotionally unmoved.  So I won't be 
investigating his music further.  Henry Cowell is a composer whose music 
I find interesting and so have investigated it further.  It doesn't move 
me as much emotionally as other composers but I find something in the 
craftmanship that is very interesting and compelling.  Persichetti's 
music is a body of work which moves me yet I am constantly running into 
people who don't find much of value in it.  I'm puzzled by it, since I 
find much to love in

Re: [Finale] TO BUY or not to buy

[Christopher Smith]

On 26-Mar-08, at 3:23 AM, Kim Richmond wrote:

OK guys. I want to see a show of hands. I have MacFin07 and I'm  
contemplating upgrading to 2008. My question: IS IT WORTH IT? Or am  
I buying in to more trouble than it's worth?
	I've seen so many negative things here on the List (although I  
haven't monitored it every day, thus my question.

All the best,
KIM R

PS- my latest problem is (and I'm sure this has been addressed) is  
that the staff styles I've entered into the score do not appear in  
the linked parts. Also, many of the multi-measure rests.


2008a (the update to 2008) is a big improvement over 2007, for no  
other reason than a bunch of bad, ugly bugs have been squashed,  
including the Speedy Entry 9 enharmonic flip bug, which had made 2007  
and 2008 essentially unusable for me, since I used Speedy so much.  
There are still some nasty bugs, but most of them are the same in  
2008 as 2007, so no difference there.


The two problems you mention are the modern equivalent of Update  
Layout, which in previous versions you had to keep doing manually  
until it turned into a nervous tic.


Rests - go to Edit>Multimeasure Rests and click Create for Parts/ 
Score and select all of them. You will have to do this once and only  
once for each new document.


Staff Styles - Along with linked parts comes the ability to have  
different Staff Styles in the parts than in the score. However, Staff  
Styles are SUPPOSED to be the same in the parts as you entered them  
in the score until you manually change them, but there is something  
buggy about it. Fortunately, it is easy to fix. While in the PART,  
select the Staff Tool, select the entire document, go to the Staff  
Menu and choose Reset Staff Styles to Score. You will have to do this  
for each part that has staff styles in it. Set up a keyboard shortcut  
if you have a macro program. Make this an automatic thing for each  
new part, as you will be doing it a lot. Darcy called it the "new  
Update Layout".


Both these problems are magnified a hundredfold or so if you are in  
the habit of clearing music out of an old document and using it as a  
template (and other things crop up too, like any page layout changes,  
lyric, chord or expression baseline changes you may have made being  
hard to clear). If you like a previous document's settings, then use  
it as an actual template by putting a copy of it into the Component  
Files folder where the Setup Wizard can see it. I think I remember  
this feature as being new to 2008.


Christopher


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Re: [Finale] More Ricoh printing woes

[Darcy James Argue]

(Since I know you can't wait to find out how this went... )

Having run out of other options, I spent all evening reinstalling OS X  
10.5 from scratch (I did "Archive and Install," but with "Preserve  
Users and Groups" turned off).


And lo, printing works again. Who knows why?

BUT... here is the curious (and on-topic thing)...

If you've been using Finale under Leopard (OS X 10.5.x), you've  
probably noticed a lot of frustrating bugs (like, having the click the  
menubar after making your selection from the Launch Window, or having  
the transposition interval change when you click "OK" instead of use  
the keyboard shortcut for "OK" (Enter).


After reinstalling OS X, those problems are (knock on wood) gone.

I don't know if that's related to my not reinstalling Finale 2008 from  
the DVD this time. Instead, I just dragged the Finale folder from the  
"Previous Systems" folder into the new Applications folder, something  
I don't usually do when I reinstall, but I don't have time right now  
to mess around with reinstalling everything from scratch. (It's bad  
enough that this method does not work for many apps, like all the  
Garritan libraries -- all of those needed to be reinstalled from the  
original discs, and registered, and updated, and re-registered -- gah.)


But the upshot is, I am using exactly the same Finale folder I used to  
use before I reinstalled OS X, and yet it doesn't exhibit any of the  
buggy behavior I'm using to seeing from Finale 2008.


I should also mention that when I originally installed OS X 10.5, I  
wiped my laptop's HD clean before installing, and reinstalled  
everything on it from scratch, including every version of Finale since  
Fin2005. But apparently, that didn't do me much good, given how buggy  
Fin2008 was on my system, and given that my printer stopped responding  
entirely.


I guess sometimes "when all else fails, reinstall the OS" really does  
work sometimes...


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
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[Finale] TO BUY or not to buy

[Kim Richmond]

OK guys. I want to see a show of hands. I have MacFin07 and I'm  
contemplating upgrading to 2008. My question: IS IT WORTH IT? Or am I  
buying in to more trouble than it's worth?
	I've seen so many negative things here on the List (although I  
haven't monitored it every day, thus my question.

All the best,
KIM R

PS- my latest problem is (and I'm sure this has been addressed) is  
that the staff styles I've entered into the score do not appear in  
the linked parts. Also, many of the multi-measure rests.

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[Finale] Subject line tagging

[Mariposa Symphony Orchestra]

Bob's correct: my posts were being tagged some time back -- and let's see if 
this one is similarly affected

Best,

Les
Les Marsden
(209) 966-6988
New Cell: (559) 708-6027
7145 Snyder Creek Road
Mariposa, CA  95338-9641

Founding Music Director and Conductor, 
The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
Music and Mariposa?  Ah, Paradise!!!
 
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html 

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bob Morabito 
  To: finale@shsu.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Finale] {Fraud?} {Disarmed} HP 500 Duplexer


  Hi David--I believe , according to your post below, that it was  
  someone else-:Les Marsden--that you had diagnosed, and discussed--and  
  it turned out to be nothing--

  http://www.mail-archive.com/finale@shsu.edu/msg38982.html

  Though I haven't seen that  added to any of my posts,  they sure have  
  been delayed froim being posted MANY MANY hours..but I see others are  
  having this delaying problem also.

  Thanks--
  Bob Morabito
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