Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs -- final note

[Paul Hayden]

On Mar 30, David H Bailey wrote:

"Weren't the score and the parts the same PDF file?  Most of the time 
when I buy a PDF of music the seller has combined them all into a single 
PDF file, which may or may not be password protected."

I thought I was doing the buyer a favor by having three different PDFs (zipped 
into one file for emailing). If you need to print one part, it's very simple -- 
no specifying pages and then seeing that the part page numbers differ from the 
PDF page numbers. 

But I just realized that adding a different password for each buyer is going to 
be impossible without some expensive (I'm guessing) and complicated backend 
software.

David also wrote:

"Congratulations on selling your first PDF!  May it be just the first of many!"

It's probably already on a Russian server being downloaded by my millions of 
admirers.
:-)

Paul Hayden


Magnolia Music Press



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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs -- final note

[David H. Bailey]

Weren't the score and the parts the same PDF file?  Most of the time 
when I buy a PDF of music the seller has combined them all into a single 
PDF file, which may or may not be password protected.

But basically we have to trust each other.  The thieves will always find 
a way to steal and the rest of us are basically honest people not out to 
screw anybody else.

Congratulations on selling your first PDF!  May it be just the first of 
many!

David H. Bailey


On 3/30/2012 5:44 PM, Paul Hayden wrote:
> Well, I sold my first PDF today. Being the clever sort, I password-protected 
> the score and two parts using Acrobat. You can probably guess what happened: 
> the buyer could only open the score and not the parts (and he was using the 
> latest version of Adobe Reader).
>
> No more passwords, I guess! I did, however, add a text box (not a "stamp") 
> with his name and price. Of course, that can be easily removed...
>
> Paul Hayden
>
>
>
> Magnolia Music Press
> 
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-- 
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[David H. Bailey]

On 3/29/2012 1:13 PM, Paul Hayden wrote:
> I guess password-protecting a PDF has pros and cons. The most obvious
> pro is that it makes it a _bit_ more difficult to pirate the PDF --
> someone has to remember where the password is and send it along with
> the PDF. That's also the con! Two years later the buyer wonders,
> "where's that damned password?" Or they can buy a cheap app to break
> the password on any PDF they have.
>

I just bought a PDF download of a brass quintet piece, and the work was 
downloaded as a zip file which included a text file containing the 
password.  So as long as I archive the zip file and not just the PDF 
file, I'll be alright.

However, I simply printed the PDF to a PDF printer and now I have a PDF 
file which doesn't require a password to open so I don't have to worry.

And I didn't even need to use a major piece of software to do any of that.

I won't be sharing the file with anybody so piracy isn't an issue, but I 
made it much more convenient for myself.  I suppose I could have renamed 
the file and included the password in the name.


-- 
David H. Bailey
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Paul Hayden]

On Thu, 29 Mar, David H. Bailey wrote:

"Which means that reasonable pricing and reasonable availability which 
makes it easy and reasonable for everybody to buy their own copy rather 
than share copies (such as has been the fallout of the recorded music 
industry) is the best remedy."


Yes, I think that's a key issue here. If the product is priced reasonably and 
is convenient to get, then there's less incentive to pirate. It seems to me 
that PDFs _have_ to be priced lower than paper products or piracy is more 
likely. 

The case with mp3's is slightly different. With PDFs, the quality is _in_ 
there. You just have to have to equipment to properly print it. Mp3's are 
inferior quality to uncompressed audio.

[Start flame war.]
:-)


Paul Hayden


Magnolia Music Press


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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Paul Hayden]

I guess password-protecting a PDF has pros and cons. The most obvious pro is 
that it makes it a _bit_ more difficult to pirate the PDF -- someone has to 
remember where the password is and send it along with the PDF. That's also the 
con! Two years later the buyer wonders, "where's that damned password?" Or they 
can buy a cheap app to break the password on any PDF they have.

Paul Hayden


On Wed, Mar 28, Mark D Lew wrote:

<< 2. Adam Engst (TidBITS founder) was kind enough to offer some advice: don't 
bother password protecting your PDFs -- they're easily removed. >>

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Although it's true that someone who wants to remove a password can easily do 
so, it still sets up a situation where it requires a deliberate effort.

It's the same idea as putting up a small fence and a "no trespassing" sign. 
Anyone who wants to get in can easily ignore the sign and hop over the fence, 
but then they'll know they're going somewhere they're not supposed to.

With an unprotected PDF, a lazy or thoughtless person -- and face it, most of 
us are lazy or thoughtless at least some of the time -- might just assume it's 
a free document to be printed or passed around at will.  When they're asked for 
a password, they'll know that its supposed to be proprietary.

mdl

*

Magnolia Music Press




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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[David H. Bailey]

On 3/28/2012 5:02 PM, Mark D Lew wrote:
> <<  2. Adam Engst (TidBITS founder) was kind enough to offer some advice: 
> don't bother password protecting your PDFs -- they're easily removed.>>
>
> I'm not sure I agree with that.
>
> Although it's true that someone who wants to remove a password can easily do 
> so, it still sets up a situation where it requires a deliberate effort.
>
> It's the same idea as putting up a small fence and a "no trespassing" sign. 
> Anyone who wants to get in can easily ignore the sign and hop over the fence, 
> but then they'll know they're going somewhere they're not supposed to.
>
> With an unprotected PDF, a lazy or thoughtless person -- and face it, most of 
> us are lazy or thoughtless at least some of the time -- might just assume 
> it's a free document to be printed or passed around at will.  When they're 
> asked for a password, they'll know that its supposed to be proprietary.
>

And when asked for a password by a friend with whom they have shared the 
PDF file, most people will say, "oh sorry, I forgot, here it is . . ." 
and will share the password as well.

Face it, people are either going to be moral about it or they won't be. 
  And with digital formats, there's no way to enforce morality.

And with all-in-one printers with scanning/copying capabilities far 
superior to the early copy machines, sitting on many people's desks, 
there's nothing to prevent people from even casually sharing copies of 
anything.

Which means that reasonable pricing and reasonable availability which 
makes it easy and reasonable for everybody to buy their own copy rather 
than share copies (such as has been the fallout of the recorded music 
industry) is the best remedy.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[David H. Bailey]

On 3/28/2012 3:13 PM, Raymond Horton wrote:
> There is also a "print on command" function that some sellers use.  It does
> not deliver pdfs but gives the buyer the ability to print one copy on his
> or her printer.  You can see this at places like
> http://www.musicnotes.com/
>
[snip]
> it - if I had started the print operation it would have automatically
> printed multiple copies of each of  the 12-page string parts (for string
> players I don't have in my church) that it had decided I needed, etc. etc -
> I could have blown a good part of my toner cartridge on this piece, just
> for the benefit of having it a few days early.  I cancelled the on-line
> order - if I am paying the same price I will use their ink and paper.
>

When I do that sort of purchase I print to a PDF file rather than print 
to paper, and thus I end up with the PDF file (even if it does include 
20 copies of the same part) and then I can edit the PDF to be just as I 
want it for archival purposes as well as then printing exactly what I 
need immediately.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[David H. Bailey]

On 3/28/2012 2:48 PM, Ryan wrote:
> I'm curious about the price difference also. Granted, the expense of paper
> and ink/toner are not applicable when distributing PDFs, but I would think
> that the real value is the content, not the physical materials.
>

True, but if the publisher has to spend, for example, $20 to print and 
collate a set of parts for an $80 piece, then the price of the PDF 
should, in my opinion, be at least $20 less than the printed version, 
since $60 apparently represents the value of the intellectual property 
included in the work.  But one also has to consider the stocking fees, 
the time spent printing and collating and other ancillary activities 
involved in printing, storing, packing and shipping the printed music. I 
realize that most businesses include a "shipping and handling" fee, but 
that rarely is more than $10 for a single work, so it can't 
realistically pay for the time spent in packaging or the packaging 
materials plus the actual shipping costs.

So a reduction in price of between 25% and 50% seems realistic.

What isn't realistic is to charge the same for the PDF version as is 
charged for the printed version -- if I'm paying the same amount, I'll 
make the publisher do the work of printing and collating the parts.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Raymond Horton]

When I try to print to CutePDF or other PDF virtual printers on my Windows
PC from these sites I get an error message saying they will not print to
pdf.  For the one that I mentioned not wanting to print reams of parts that
I didn't need, I even renamed a virtual printer for the purpose but the
site could tell it was a print-to-PDF and refused.

Hmm - I just realized that the one difference in your suggestion is to set
my pdf printer as the default.  I'll try that next time I have a need for
pdf over hard copy.

Raymond Horton

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <
bath...@maltedmedia.com> wrote:

> On Wed, March 28, 2012 3:13 pm, Raymond Horton wrote:
> > There is also a "print on command" function that some sellers use.  It
> does
> > not deliver pdfs but gives the buyer the ability to print one copy on his
> > or her printer.  You can see this at places like
> > http://www.musicnotes.com/
>
> I've used them. Print-on-command sites will use your default printer ...
> which
> you can set to a PDF virtual printer and print a PDF set for re-use at any
> time.
>
> I use docPrint Pro on Windows with my own stuff when I want to print it to
> a
> different size paper for collating into a collection. PDF prints nicely to
> PDF
> on different size virtual paper. :)
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Christopher Smith]

Some others have mentioned a similar philosophy: the notice on the bottom of 
the file is like a No Trespassing sign; it won't stop a determined thief, but 
will keep honest people reasonably honest. It also causes an extra step if you 
intend to pirate them, which may be enough.

50% lower seems about right for an original composition, roughly equal to the 
retail markup charged by a store. My reduction is 25% off if I don't have to 
print/bind/mail it, but I deal with different kinds of music. I charge for 
printing to orchestra paper and taping/binding, and true enough, some ensembles 
have a healthy budget and would rather not have the bother of having to print 
out themselves. I'll give them the option. Of course, I am not dealing with 
anything approaching even a small volume; most of my sales are one-off.

Christopher

On Wed Mar 28, at WednesdayMar 28 2:38 PM, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Wow -- great replies! Your comments bring up a couple of other issues:
> 
> 1. I assume that PDFs should be priced lower than paper copies. If they're 
> not, I would think there would be a greater incentive to pirate the PDF 
> rather than just buy your own copy. Does 50% lower sound right?
> 
> 2. Adam Engst (TidBITS founder) was kind enough to offer some advice: don't 
> bother password protecting your PDFs -- they're easily removed. Even so, he 
> said that it's probably a good idea to stamp (in Acrobat) the PDF with the 
> price and buyer's name. This is similar to what Christopher Smith wrote 
> ("This score and set of parts is for the exclusive use of [the buyer]").
> 
> Paul Hayden

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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[David Froom]

> I've been selling my compositions as paper sheet music for years, but I'm 
> getting more and more requests for PDFs. I feel a little uneasy about this 
> since a PDF (even with a password) can be posted online or emailed to anyone 
> who wants it for free. 
> 
> Any thoughts on this from publishers, composers, or engravers currently 
> selling PDFs?
> 
> Thanks for any insight!
> 
> Paul Hayden
> 
> 
> Magnolia Music Press
> 

For most of us, the royalties from performing far outstrip the income from 
selling scores. Look at the phenomenal success of "In C," which was a free 
score inserted in the original LP packaging materials.  Ok, maybe that's not a 
great example for a variety of reasons, but the principle is the same.

My publisher (ACA) keeps pdfs of our music.  Printing on demand is fast and 
easy (and can take place anywhere).  They also like to sell pdfs -- minimal 
costs, more profit.  I am reluctant to allow it because I think a nicely 
printed score on good larger-than-8.5x11-paper with a good binding means the 
performance experience is a better one, and can translate into more 
performances -- or at least something staying in a performer's library.  On the 
other hand, I'm meeting performers, particularly younger ones, who want music 
ONLY in pdf format.  And for perusal scores, there is nothing better.

I think we'll come to a time fairly soon when most performers will have an 
iPad-like device with a full library.  The software out there now already 
allows annotations, has good foot-pedal page turners.  But I personally still 
REALLY like paper.  Even when I get something for quick study from imslp.org, 
if I want to do anything serious with it, I print and bind it on nice, oversize 
paper and staple bind.

Finally, I also understand pdfs as a wonderful way to get things quickly around 
the world.  If I'm traveling to a large ensemble performance, I no longer feel 
the need to bring along a set of backup parts.  If someone loses a part, I can 
get the pdf almost instantly, and print a replacement.

My instructions to my publisher are not to advertise that they will sell a pdf 
of my music.  But if someone insists, I tell them to go ahead and do it.

David Froom
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Mark D Lew]

<< 2. Adam Engst (TidBITS founder) was kind enough to offer some advice: don't 
bother password protecting your PDFs -- they're easily removed. >>

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Although it's true that someone who wants to remove a password can easily do 
so, it still sets up a situation where it requires a deliberate effort.

It's the same idea as putting up a small fence and a "no trespassing" sign. 
Anyone who wants to get in can easily ignore the sign and hop over the fence, 
but then they'll know they're going somewhere they're not supposed to.

With an unprotected PDF, a lazy or thoughtless person -- and face it, most of 
us are lazy or thoughtless at least some of the time -- might just assume it's 
a free document to be printed or passed around at will.  When they're asked for 
a password, they'll know that its supposed to be proprietary.

mdl
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Wed, March 28, 2012 3:13 pm, Raymond Horton wrote:
> There is also a "print on command" function that some sellers use.  It does
> not deliver pdfs but gives the buyer the ability to print one copy on his
> or her printer.  You can see this at places like
> http://www.musicnotes.com/

I've used them. Print-on-command sites will use your default printer ... which
you can set to a PDF virtual printer and print a PDF set for re-use at any
time.

I use docPrint Pro on Windows with my own stuff when I want to print it to a
different size paper for collating into a collection. PDF prints nicely to PDF
on different size virtual paper. :)

Dennis







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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Raymond Horton]

There is also a "print on command" function that some sellers use.  It does
not deliver pdfs but gives the buyer the ability to print one copy on his
or her printer.  You can see this at places like
http://www.musicnotes.com/

which I have used a few times to get pop songs I needed quickly.  It works
quite well.  There are usually some free songs at these sites if you want
to try it out.

This is less attractive than are pdfs to the buyer but can still be
obtained nearly instantly.  The advantages to the seller are obvious, but I
have no idea how to set something like this up.

The bad part of this is less choice for the buyer.  I recently attempted to
buy an orchestration for a church anthem at J W Pepper.com.  (I do most of
the arrangements for church myself and email pdfs of parts to a few of the
players ahead of time.  I confess that I thought if I downloaded the
orchestration I thought I might email pdfs of a few of the individual parts
to individual players, which is a violation but likely not one to cause a
piracy problem).  I paid the same price as I would have for the printed
music (minus shipping), then went to the menu to print. But I didn't print
it - if I had started the print operation it would have automatically
printed multiple copies of each of  the 12-page string parts (for string
players I don't have in my church) that it had decided I needed, etc. etc -
I could have blown a good part of my toner cartridge on this piece, just
for the benefit of having it a few days early.  I cancelled the on-line
order - if I am paying the same price I will use their ink and paper.

Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
Composer, Arranger
VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com


On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Ryan  wrote:

> I'm curious about the price difference also. Granted, the expense of paper
> and ink/toner are not applicable when distributing PDFs, but I would think
> that the real value is the content, not the physical materials.
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Paul Hayden  wrote:
>
> > Wow -- great replies! Your comments bring up a couple of other issues:
> >
> > 1. I assume that PDFs should be priced lower than paper copies. If
> they're
> > not, I would think there would be a greater incentive to pirate the PDF
> > rather than just buy your own copy. Does 50% lower sound right?
> >
> > 2. Adam Engst (TidBITS founder) was kind enough to offer some advice:
> > don't bother password protecting your PDFs -- they're easily removed.
> Even
> > so, he said that it's probably a good idea to stamp (in Acrobat) the PDF
> > with the price and buyer's name. This is similar to what Christopher
> Smith
> > wrote ("This score and set of parts is for the exclusive use of [the
> > buyer]").
> >
> > Paul Hayden
> >
> >
> > Magnolia Music Press
> > 
> >
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Ryan]

I'm curious about the price difference also. Granted, the expense of paper
and ink/toner are not applicable when distributing PDFs, but I would think
that the real value is the content, not the physical materials.

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Paul Hayden  wrote:

> Wow -- great replies! Your comments bring up a couple of other issues:
>
> 1. I assume that PDFs should be priced lower than paper copies. If they're
> not, I would think there would be a greater incentive to pirate the PDF
> rather than just buy your own copy. Does 50% lower sound right?
>
> 2. Adam Engst (TidBITS founder) was kind enough to offer some advice:
> don't bother password protecting your PDFs -- they're easily removed. Even
> so, he said that it's probably a good idea to stamp (in Acrobat) the PDF
> with the price and buyer's name. This is similar to what Christopher Smith
> wrote ("This score and set of parts is for the exclusive use of [the
> buyer]").
>
> Paul Hayden
>
>
> Magnolia Music Press
> 
>
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Paul Hayden]

Wow -- great replies! Your comments bring up a couple of other issues:

1. I assume that PDFs should be priced lower than paper copies. If they're not, 
I would think there would be a greater incentive to pirate the PDF rather than 
just buy your own copy. Does 50% lower sound right?

2. Adam Engst (TidBITS founder) was kind enough to offer some advice: don't 
bother password protecting your PDFs -- they're easily removed. Even so, he 
said that it's probably a good idea to stamp (in Acrobat) the PDF with the 
price and buyer's name. This is similar to what Christopher Smith wrote ("This 
score and set of parts is for the exclusive use of [the buyer]").

Paul Hayden


Magnolia Music Press


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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs (ot)

[Randolph Peters]

Hi Timothy,

You do know that this list goes beyond US borders, right?

Just saying.

-Randolph Peters

On 2012-03-28, at 8:03 AM, timothy.price wrote:
> [snip]
> Our Flag
> Created in 1789 
> After the Constitutional Convention of 1787 had produced the Constitution for 
> ratification by the thirteen colonies, 
> two years went by without enough state ratifying it to make it law. They had 
> to add the first 10 amendments and also 
> adopt a code of conduct which would be a voluntary oath for all citizens to 
> uphold.
> It was their belief that for a nation to be free, it had to have trust, and 
> to have trust, people had to uphold honor.
> Without honor there is no freedom. To the degree that there is honor, there 
> is untrammeled freedom. Honorable 
> behavior created the atmosphere in which freedom can thrive. 
>   If any individual acts dishonorably, they are traitors to the dream of 
> a free society and should not be tolerated.
> 
>   Colors:
>   White: The background banner representing purity and innocence, lack of 
> guile.
>   Red:  The stripes applied to the white banner:  Cheer, Hardiness and 
> Valor (worthiness)
>   Blue: Honor, Vigilance, Perseverance, &  Justice
>   13 Stripes: 13 colonies
>   (7 red, 6 white)
>A blue field with one white star for each state.
>   As in the Declaration of Independence: "We pledge our lives, our 
> fortunes, and our sacred honor".
> 
> Old Glory (lyrics)
> by
> Timothy K. Price
> 
> Let me tell you a story,
>   About our flag, old glory,
> The stars and stripes of red, white, and blue;
>   And of its creation,
> ThIs symbol for our nation,
>   And what it mean to folks like me and you.
> 
>   They took the purity of white, 
> The brightly shining light
>   All the colors in the spirit of our souls
> For our banner of trust,
>   Our pledge of good intention,
> For all who live beneath her to uphold. 
> 
> They emblazoned her with red,
>   Stripes which clearly said 
> With a boisterous, cheering humor, “Have no fear.
>   We are hardy souls of valor,
> Worthy our intent, 
>   To do good  is the reason we are here". 
> 
> We are many joined as one,
>   Honest folk, and fair,
> For honor is the air that we breathe;
>   So to represent our nation,
> Took a patch of blue sky
>   And placed in it a starry constellation.
> 
> With a star for every state
>   Each joining in its fate, 
> A union which no one will leave,
>   Finding happiness in freedom,
> This flag is our dream
>  That none who live among us shall deceive.
> 
> Our flag is made from scraps,
>   For frugal is our way.
> Simple living lets others simply live.
>   We will shame you for your riches,
> Scorn your vanity,
>   If greed should get the better of your soul.
> 
> There’s salvation in compassion,
>   Poverty in greed,
> So what we have we share with loving care.
>   We understand hard work,
> Have no tolerance for cheats,
>   Politician in their office should beware.
> 
> When we pledge our allegiance,
>   We pledge a way of life,
> To be true to the meaning of our flag.
>   We pledge a life of honor, 
> To be truthful and fair,
>   This is our way... here in the USA. 
> 
> So this is my story,
>   About our flag, old glory,
> The stars and strips of red, white, and blue.
>   And of its creation,
> ThIs symbol of our nation,
>   and what it mean to folks like me and you
> 
> _
> 
> Would like to see this taught in schools to return content to the Pledge of 
> Allegiance.
> 
> 
> timothy.price
> timothy.pr...@valley.net


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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs (ot)

[timothy . price]

On Mar 28, 2012, at 12:03 AM, John Howell wrote:

> And I do think one has to realize that we ALL 
> have to learn to trust people to do the right 
> thing,

Am glad that this observation is voiced by a musician. ( notice: Goldman Sachs, 
et al )
Perhaps this is the core issue facing a society that wishes to practice freedom.
It is the loss of honorable behavior, and that assumed loss,  which is 
threatening our country, in many ways.

John illustrates how nice it will be when all people realize that honest 
behavior,
( even when stealing would be easy and without a chance of being caught) is key 
to their own freedom.
 People would seldom consider theft  sort of like the farm stands here, 
with lots of vegetables, flowers, 
honey, etc., a sign showing the cost of each, a box of money,   but no farmer 
to watch it all.

Reintroducing this code of conduct into our culture has been an interest for a 
while. Here is what I have discovered.

Our Flag
Created in 1789 
After the Constitutional Convention of 1787 had produced the Constitution for 
ratification by the thirteen colonies, 
two years went by without enough state ratifying it to make it law. They had to 
add the first 10 amendments and also 
adopt a code of conduct which would be a voluntary oath for all citizens to 
uphold.
It was their belief that for a nation to be free, it had to have trust, and to 
have trust, people had to uphold honor.
Without honor there is no freedom. To the degree that there is honor, there is 
untrammeled freedom. Honorable 
behavior created the atmosphere in which freedom can thrive. 
If any individual acts dishonorably, they are traitors to the dream of 
a free society and should not be tolerated.

Colors:
White: The background banner representing purity and innocence, lack of 
guile.
Red:  The stripes applied to the white banner:  Cheer, Hardiness and 
Valor (worthiness)
Blue: Honor, Vigilance, Perseverance, &  Justice
13 Stripes: 13 colonies
(7 red, 6 white)
A blue field with one white star for each state.
As in the Declaration of Independence: "We pledge our lives, our 
fortunes, and our sacred honor".

Old Glory (lyrics)
by
Timothy K. Price

Let me tell you a story,
About our flag, old glory,
The stars and stripes of red, white, and blue;
And of its creation,
ThIs symbol for our nation,
And what it mean to folks like me and you.

They took the purity of white, 
The brightly shining light
All the colors in the spirit of our souls
For our banner of trust,
Our pledge of good intention,
For all who live beneath her to uphold. 

They emblazoned her with red,
Stripes which clearly said 
With a boisterous, cheering humor, “Have no fear.
We are hardy souls of valor,
Worthy our intent, 
To do good  is the reason we are here". 

We are many joined as one,
Honest folk, and fair,
For honor is the air that we breathe;
So to represent our nation,
Took a patch of blue sky
And placed in it a starry constellation.

With a star for every state
Each joining in its fate, 
A union which no one will leave,
Finding happiness in freedom,
This flag is our dream
  That none who live among us shall deceive.

Our flag is made from scraps,
For frugal is our way.
Simple living lets others simply live.
We will shame you for your riches,
Scorn your vanity,
If greed should get the better of your soul.

There’s salvation in compassion,
Poverty in greed,
So what we have we share with loving care.
We understand hard work,
Have no tolerance for cheats,
Politician in their office should beware.

When we pledge our allegiance,
We pledge a way of life,
To be true to the meaning of our flag.
We pledge a life of honor, 
To be truthful and fair,
This is our way... here in the USA. 

So this is my story,
About our flag, old glory,
The stars and strips of red, white, and blue.
And of its creation,
ThIs symbol of our nation,
and what it mean to folks like me and you

_

Would like to see this taught in schools to return content to the Pledge of 
Allegiance.


timothy.price
timothy.pr...@valley.net





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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

I think sometimes that selling PDFs might be trying to monetize the wrong thing.

Selling nice printed copies is fine because not everyone can print
properly-sized sheets, nor has the ability to bind a score, nor has the desire
to put together a set of parts. Also, organizations, schools and libraries
like the work already done. (In 2010 I had an engraving job where, rather than
download & print the PDFs thenselves, an orchestra in Germany had me print,
bind and *overnight* 8 kilos of score and parts from Vermont via FedEx.)

Selling PDFs might be profitable for some. I doubt it would be for me because
of the accounting time, the maintenance of sales software, etc. And those few
that are for sale don't sell as physical copies or PDFs. I have three
beautiful ones on Lulu  that have gone
nowhere, including the one available for $.99 as a PDF. My recordings at
Kunaki are selling better (they handle accounting), but I have actually made
more sales of the downloads of these


I can see my scores and parts, all freely available, are downloaded often. And
to me it's much more gratifying to receive an announcement of a performance, a
recording, and a fatter ASCAP royalty check (I got a surprisingly tidy
publisher's check a few days ago for performances I wasn't even aware of from
last year).

Overall I would much rather be writing music, finishing nice-looking scores,
and making them available easily than being a sales clerk, customer service
rep, web developer, and accountant.

Dennis

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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Aaron Sherber]

On 3/28/2012 9:26 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:
> Unless the pirates also have a pirated version of the full Adobe 
> Acrobat and edit the PDF to remove that line. :-) 

You can put all kinds of protections on a PDF, if you have full Acrobat 
or something similar. For example, if you're sending out a perusal 
score, you can make it so that the PDF won't print. And you can also 
protect the PDF so that it's not editable.

Are there ways around these protections? Yes, certainly. But it means 
that the people who pirate your work will be only those who are really 
determined to do so, not those who are just provided with a casual 
opportunity.

Aaron.
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Phil Daley]

At 3/28/2012 09:26 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:

 >On 3/28/2012 7:49 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
 >> I have been selling my music as PDFs for a while now and was
 >> wondering the same things. I recently ordered some music from another
 >> composer by means of PDF and email, and noticed that when I got it
 >> there was a note at the bottom of each page 1 below the copyright
 >> notice: "This score and set of parts is for the exclusive use of
 >> Christopher Smith." This way, if it shows up online, he knows who
 >> went ahead and pirated it.
 >>
 >
 >Unless the pirates also have a pirated version of the full Adobe Acrobat
 >and edit the PDF to remove that line.  :-)

My thoughts exactly!!

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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[David H. Bailey]

On 3/28/2012 7:49 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
> I have been selling my music as PDFs for a while now and was
> wondering the same things. I recently ordered some music from another
> composer by means of PDF and email, and noticed that when I got it
> there was a note at the bottom of each page 1 below the copyright
> notice: "This score and set of parts is for the exclusive use of
> Christopher Smith." This way, if it shows up online, he knows who
> went ahead and pirated it.
>

Unless the pirates also have a pirated version of the full Adobe Acrobat 
and edit the PDF to remove that line.  :-)


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Christopher Smith]

I have been selling my music as PDFs for a while now and was wondering the same 
things. I recently ordered some music from another composer by means of PDF and 
email, and noticed that when I got it there was a note at the bottom of each 
page 1 below the copyright notice: "This score and set of parts is for the 
exclusive use of Christopher Smith." This way, if it shows up online, he knows 
who went ahead and pirated it.

Now, this might seem a bit extreme, along the lines of one of my colleagues who 
stamped every piece of sheet music he owns with a rubber stamp reading "Stolen 
from the library of [his name]". Every time I play in his band I get that 
ridiculous stamp in my line of sight. What an assumption!

Christopher


On Tue Mar 27, at TuesdayMar 27 11:15 PM, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Apologies if you also subscribe to the SCI list:
> 
> I've been selling my compositions as paper sheet music for years, but I'm 
> getting more and more requests for PDFs. I feel a little uneasy about this 
> since a PDF (even with a password) can be posted online or emailed to anyone 
> who wants it for free. 
> 
> Any thoughts on this from publishers, composers, or engravers currently 
> selling PDFs?
> 
> Thanks for any insight!
> 
> Paul Hayden
> 
> 
> Magnolia Music Press
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[John Howell]

At 10:15 PM -0500 3/27/12, Paul Hayden wrote:
>Apologies if you also subscribe to the SCI list:
>
>I've been selling my compositions as paper sheet 
>music for years, but I'm getting more and more 
>requests for PDFs. I feel a little uneasy about 
>this since a PDF (even with a password) can be 
>posted online or emailed to anyone who wants it 
>for free.
>
>Any thoughts on this from publishers, composers, 
>or engravers currently selling PDFs?
>
>Thanks for any insight!
>
>Paul Hayden


Paul:  If you aren't comfortable with this, then 
of course you shouldn't do it.  But I'm convinced 
that this is the direction music publishing is 
going to go in, and probably sooner rather than 
later.

Personally I welcome the technology.  It makes 
things SO much easier and more efficient for me 
as an arranger and sometime composer.  A score 
and parts can be sent in seconds--minutes at the 
outside--without any need for all the 
complications of printing, storage, handling and 
mailing.

And I do think one has to realize that we ALL 
have to learn to trust people to do the right 
thing, especially since any paper music can be 
easily run though a copy machine with no one the 
wiser.  You are already trusting those who buy 
your music on paper not to do that, even though 
it's inevitable that SOME people will abuse your 
trust.  So all you're really saying is that 
modern technology just makes it EASIER to cheat, 
just as it makes it easier and more efficient to 
distribute your work.

You might not agree, nor may others in this 
forum, and that's certainly fair enough.  But 
more and more composers are going to 
self-publishing AND to distribution 
electronically.  Absolute control over our 
product is not possible unless you are willing 
never to distribute it at all.  Or so it seems to 
me.

John


-- 
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
School of Performing Arts & Cinema
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön."
(Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!)  --Johannes Brahms

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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[David H. Bailey]

On 3/27/2012 11:15 PM, Paul Hayden wrote:
> Apologies if you also subscribe to the SCI list:
>
> I've been selling my compositions as paper sheet music for years, but I'm 
> getting more and more requests for PDFs. I feel a little uneasy about this 
> since a PDF (even with a password) can be posted online or emailed to anyone 
> who wants it for free.
>
> Any thoughts on this from publishers, composers, or engravers currently 
> selling PDFs?
>
> Thanks for any insight!
>


I will second what Darcy and Mark have said -- as a consumer of printed 
music, one of the first things I do is to scan the music into a PDF file 
and put it on my iPad.  If it's a work for a brass quintet I'm in, I'll 
scan my part, if it's a score I'll scan the whole thing so that I can 
have it with me to study or perform from whenever/wherever I want.  If 
it's an exercise book or a solo work, the same applies.

I would much prefer to purchase things already in PDF format.  I don't 
sell much music online, so I can't speak from experience, but with so 
many people having all-in-one printers, whether we sell printed music or 
PDF versions, there is nothing we can do to prevent piracy.  I never 
share the scanned music I create from purchased music, just as back in 
the day I never shared cassettes of LPs I purchased, even though 
creating a cassette was one of the first things I did so that I could 
listen in my car.

Convenience is the key, as both Darcy and Mark have said.

Honesty is something about which we just have to have faith in our 
customers.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Mark D Lew]

On Mar 27, 2012, at 8:15 PM, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Apologies if you also subscribe to the SCI list:
> 
> I've been selling my compositions as paper sheet music for years, but I'm 
> getting more and more requests for PDFs. I feel a little uneasy about this 
> since a PDF (even with a password) can be posted online or emailed to anyone 
> who wants it for free. 
> 
> Any thoughts on this from publishers, composers, or engravers currently 
> selling PDFs?

Well, my first thought is that it's not that much harder to scan the paper 
score and email that around for free just as easily as a PDF.

I do very little original composition, but I have several PDFs -- some 
arrangements and some prettied-up editions of public domain music -- which I've 
offered up as "shareware".  The name derives from software delivered in a 
similar manner.  The basic idea is that anyone can download it, but if you 
choose to keep it you are supposed to send me a few dollars.  I apply the same 
concept to PDFs.

There is nothing to enforce the price save the honesty of those who use it, and 
yet I still get small checks in the mail from works that I put out there many 
years ago. (Some would prefer to pay Paypal, but I'm still in the dark ages in 
that respect)  I figure if the PDF gets passed around, that's a good thing, 
because maybe it finds its way to a new customer and I get paid again.

Darcy is right that what people really pay for is the convenience, not the 
content -- (a concept that's central to the economics of every media business, 
by the way).  My more interesting projects are hard-to-find songs that I've 
done significant editing work on, and those attract virtually no interest at 
all.  On the other hand, I have a couple of songs which are readily available 
in various old anthologies including scanned public domain ones, where I've 
done little more than re-copy it more neatly and user-friendly (and which I 
only published because for whatever reason I needed to re-engrave it anyway) 
and some of those actually do sell a little bit.  I guess it's just because 
someone is looking for that song in a hurry and mine pops up on Google in a 
format where it can be printed out in one minute with no hassle and ready for 
immediate use with no marking up. Frequently I'll get a note like, "I sang this 
last month at a funeral on short notice, sorry I didn't pay until now. Thanks 
so much for making this available so I didn't have to go out and order it."

Not sure if any of this applies to your situation, but those are my thoughts on 
selling PDFs.  I'm certainly not getting rich on any of them, but it's nice to 
provide a service and get a little bit back from time to time.  If I were out 
only to make money, well, that's what my day job's for.

mdl
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Re: [Finale] OT: Selling PDFs

[Darcy James Argue]

Hi Paul,

I can pretty much guarantee that the income you are losing by not offering 
digitally downloadable scores and parts far exceeds any potential loss you 
might incur due to digital piracy.

Paper copies of parts and scores can, of course, be scanned and then posted 
online or emailed to anyone who wants it for free, so there is really no paper 
vs. digital distinction worth considering. 

What people want most is convenience, and if you make it more convenient to 
purchase your music than it is to pirate it -- and this should be trivially 
easy for even a minimally tech-savvy self-published composer -- then you will 
come out ahead.

Cheers,

- DJA
-
WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org



On 27 Mar 2012, at 11:15 PM, Paul Hayden wrote:

> Apologies if you also subscribe to the SCI list:
> 
> I've been selling my compositions as paper sheet music for years, but I'm 
> getting more and more requests for PDFs. I feel a little uneasy about this 
> since a PDF (even with a password) can be posted online or emailed to anyone 
> who wants it for free. 
> 
> Any thoughts on this from publishers, composers, or engravers currently 
> selling PDFs?
> 
> Thanks for any insight!
> 
> Paul Hayden
> 
> 
> Magnolia Music Press
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] OT Selling PDFs

[Johannes Gebauer]

Am 05.02.10 14:12, schrieb Richard Huggins:

I'd love to see the URL for your storefront there.


http://stores.lulu.com/musikmanufaktur

Johannes
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Re: [Finale] OT Selling PDFs

[Richard Huggins]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:


www.lulu.com

Of all the print on demand publishers I tried they are the only one  
who will sell pdfs directly. I have some music there, too, and  
actually sold some, too. Not much though, but one of the items I  
have seems to be selling a PDF copy from time to time.


Johannes



I'd love to see the URL for your storefront there.

R.

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Re: [Finale] OT Selling PDFs

[Johannes Gebauer]

www.lulu.com

Of all the print on demand publishers I tried they are the only one who 
will sell pdfs directly. I have some music there, too, and actually sold 
some, too. Not much though, but one of the items I have seems to be 
selling a PDF copy from time to time.


Johannes
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Re: [Finale] OT Selling PDFs

[Richard Huggins]

On Feb 4, 2010, at 5:51 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:


Who is the music by?


They are original compositions by
Dr. Warren M. Angell, Dean Emeritus (deceased),
Warren M. Angell College of Fine Arts,
Oklahoma Baptist University


--Richard

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Re: [Finale] OT Selling PDFs

[Kim Patrick Clow]

Who is the music by?

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Richard Huggins  wrote:

> I've engraved a collection of piano compositions for a lady and she's asked
> me about selling PDFs of them on the 'Net. I'm looking for suggested sites
> to do this. I'm aware of Kagi as a possibility; are there others?
>
> Richard
>
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