Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Daniel Macks]

On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 01:03:53AM -0500, David Reiser wrote:
> Something that I have wished for several times is more date information:
> 
> When I most recently installed a package

In one respect that's a pretty hard one...the data isn't stored
anywhere. I've heard debian talk about adding some sort of auditing
trail to dpkg, dunno if they've implemented it yet (and obviously
*our* current dpkg doesn't have it). I've got a hacked dpkg that can
do it as well (as a side effect of another long-wanted fink feature)
but right now it's only catch *some* installs not all.

OTOH, it would be easy to write a Notify module that tracked it. The
"Syslog" Notify module would work well for this now, but the data is
stored in syslog (duh:) so it's only available within the limits of
your logfile rotation history.

> When I built it (this can be dug up from the deb build date, but it's  
> more work than it should be)

A quickie is:

  ls -l `fink dumpinfo -fdebfile SOME_PACKAGE_NAME | cut -d: -f2 ` 

If we wanted to be reliable about this, we should check the datestamp
of stuff *in* the .deb, not the .deb itself (care about build date,
not when the already-built archive was copied/downloaded/whatevered).
Maybe dumpinfo should have a "debstats" field that gives internal
datestamp and installation size of the .deb?

> When the last update was on the servers (again, available but harder  
> than it should be to find)

Not sure a good way to do this one without rolling a server facility
specifically for this request. Can't rely on CVS or rsync since no
clue which way someone's doing it. gmane is a pain in the butt to
search and parse efficiently automatically. Maybe screen-scrape the
viewcvs webpage?

> I have wanted this information mostly when I'm muttering evil things  
> wondering "what have I done _this_ time?"  My fink efforts are  
> sporadic, and when I get myself into trouble, being able to tell  
> "Yeah, that one was installed yesterday" (instead of last week or  
> last month) can help jog my memory about what I may have been  
> thinking or attempting.

Yeah:)

dan

-- 
Daniel Macks
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.netspace.org/~dmacks


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[David Reiser]

Something that I have wished for several times is more date information:

When I most recently installed a package
When I built it (this can be dug up from the deb build date, but it's  
more work than it should be)
When the last update was on the servers (again, available but harder  
than it should be to find)

I have wanted this information mostly when I'm muttering evil things  
wondering "what have I done _this_ time?"  My fink efforts are  
sporadic, and when I get myself into trouble, being able to tell  
"Yeah, that one was installed yesterday" (instead of last week or  
last month) can help jog my memory about what I may have been  
thinking or attempting.

Dave
--
David Reiser
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Benjamin Reed]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Kevin Walzer wrote:

> Does PerlQt exist on Mac OS X, natively?

I believe it's been built against Qt/Mac, yes.

> And out of curiosity, how would you deploy such an app? Does Perl have a
> mechanism for generating standalone app bundles on OS X?

You use install_name_tool to change the stuff in the binaries, stick the
libs inside the app bundle, etc.  There's no automated tool AFAIK, but
it's not hard, just a little tedious the first time you set it up.

- --
Benjamin Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick
Fink, KDE, and Mac OS X development
http://www.racoonfink.com/
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFd4AlUu+jZtP2Zf4RAk/AAJ9Nm1LHQ7KmoSldf9woftSOrCNLRQCeMHO1
hcC6U2wQZoJePs7ID4xt+DA=
=KnKU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Kevin Walzer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Benjamin Reed wrote:

> 
> I've thought about reimplementing it in PerlQt though, might be an
> option.  :)
> 
>

Does PerlQt exist on Mac OS X, natively?

And out of curiosity, how would you deploy such an app? Does Perl have a
mechanism for generating standalone app bundles on OS X?

- --
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFd39YEsLm8HXyq4sRAkEuAJ9XiRJ7dVN8DEPJLn9+pm4+ZuifDwCgguHj
D2wNz3frzYoBxAr1zn0RSZc=
=8XSQ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Benjamin Reed]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Philip Lamb wrote:
> In short, it is scandalous that such a key tool in the Fink suite has  
> been neglected. I would venture that 99% of new Fink users depend in  
> some way on FinkCommander, and I think more attention needs to be  
> paid to its upkeep. If the previous authors aren't interested, then  
> they could at least turn over cvs write access to someone who is.

I can only speak for myself certainly, but as far as I know, none of us
core Fink developers are cocoa/carbon folks.  We may be able to hack up
other folks' code a bit, but I know I'm not qualified to fix it.

I've thought about reimplementing it in PerlQt though, might be an
option.  :)

- --
Benjamin Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick
Fink, KDE, and Mac OS X development
http://www.racoonfink.com/
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFd2+tUu+jZtP2Zf4RAiIPAJ9mSsEqpeWzyfOvQ/KQwp1qj+rs+QCdEbQz
b7oqSojq/0n65um/X7qmSQA=
=tumR
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Christian Schaffner]

On 04.12.2006, at 11:09, Robert T Wyatt wrote:

> Build/installation statistics.
>
> Every time I open pine for the first time on a computer, it asks me  
> if I
> would like to provide (anonymous) feedback to the maintainers. I  
> think it
> would be great if fink.conf allowed for auto-feedback that could be  
> stored
> somewhere on fink.sourceforge.net (or on the wiki) that would show
> successful/unsuccessful builds (and/or usage). I reckon it might  
> need to
> account for revisions

Please see

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? 
func=detail&aid=1610492&group_id=17203&atid=367203

for one possibility to add a feature like this. It's done using the  
Fink::Notify mechanism and accessing an url. A server could then  
collect the data from there.

Best, Christian.

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Alexander Hansen]

On 12/6/06, Philip Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Personally, my one wish for Fink is better maintenance of FinkCommander.
>
>   I would like to see some more of the Fink functionality moved into
> FinkCommander. I know FinkCommander is officially outside the Fink
> suite, but it shouldn't be. For anyone new to open source on the Mac,
> having a GUI in which he or she can browse available packages, read
> detailed info on each package, see what is installed, and manage
> various Fink tasks is absolutely invaluable. I know many of you are
> of the opinion that command line should be all you ever need, but for
> new users, operating fink from the command line is intimidating,
> imposes a steep learning curve, and masks a lot of great
> functionality that is in Fink and its tools.
>
> Specifically, I would like to see FinkCommander handle some of these
> tasks which I typically revert to the command line or manually
> grepping through the fink tree for:
> * Viewing dependencies and reverse dependencies of installed packages
> (i.e. apt-cache info) - this helps answer the questions users have
> like "why is this package installed when I only ever asked for
> package xyz to be installed" and "can I remove this asdfg package"?
> * Cleaning up obsolete sources and debs (used to work but broken with
> the new fink cleanup syntax)

It's fixed again.

> * Sending feedback.. more than just the "success" or "failure"
> reports, but including (at user's option) key system info (e.g. OS
> version, platform, environment etc) and build log.
> * Allowing viewing of other fields in the package .info file
> (currently shows only DescDetail), such as DescPort, and
> DescPackaging, which almost always contain key info on what is
> actually in the package (e.g. what features will be configured and
> what features will not).
> * Ability to report which package installed a given file or directory
> in /sw (or wherever) - one of the dpkg or apt commands, but I can't
> remember which.
> * Updated binary of FinkCommander.. I have contacted the maintainters
> offering to build a binary from the current cvs (which fixes several
> bugs that are in the 0.5.4 binary release).
> * Provide a mechanism for installing info and patch files into the
> local tree, for testing. It would help speed up the package tracker a
> lot if there was a simple GUI-mediated mechanism for users to
> download .info and .patch files from the tracker and testing them.
>
> In short, it is scandalous that such a key tool in the Fink suite has
> been neglected. I would venture that 99% of new Fink users depend in
> some way on FinkCommander, and I think more attention needs to be
> paid to its upkeep. If the previous authors aren't interested, then
> they could at least turn over cvs write access to someone who is.
>
> Regards,
> Phil.
>
>

The previous author hasn't done anything on it in years.  We've got
some people with write access, and Martin Costabel has put a version
in his experimental area.

We won't stop anybody from taking it over.
-- 
Alexander K. Hansen
Fink Documenter (still)
Got job?  http://akhmac.blogdns.net/~hansen/akh_cv/

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Philip Lamb]

Personally, my one wish for Fink is better maintenance of FinkCommander.

  I would like to see some more of the Fink functionality moved into  
FinkCommander. I know FinkCommander is officially outside the Fink  
suite, but it shouldn't be. For anyone new to open source on the Mac,  
having a GUI in which he or she can browse available packages, read  
detailed info on each package, see what is installed, and manage  
various Fink tasks is absolutely invaluable. I know many of you are  
of the opinion that command line should be all you ever need, but for  
new users, operating fink from the command line is intimidating,  
imposes a steep learning curve, and masks a lot of great  
functionality that is in Fink and its tools.

Specifically, I would like to see FinkCommander handle some of these  
tasks which I typically revert to the command line or manually  
grepping through the fink tree for:
* Viewing dependencies and reverse dependencies of installed packages  
(i.e. apt-cache info) - this helps answer the questions users have  
like "why is this package installed when I only ever asked for  
package xyz to be installed" and "can I remove this asdfg package"?
* Cleaning up obsolete sources and debs (used to work but broken with  
the new fink cleanup syntax)
* Sending feedback.. more than just the "success" or "failure"  
reports, but including (at user's option) key system info (e.g. OS  
version, platform, environment etc) and build log.
* Allowing viewing of other fields in the package .info file  
(currently shows only DescDetail), such as DescPort, and  
DescPackaging, which almost always contain key info on what is  
actually in the package (e.g. what features will be configured and  
what features will not).
* Ability to report which package installed a given file or directory  
in /sw (or wherever) - one of the dpkg or apt commands, but I can't  
remember which.
* Updated binary of FinkCommander.. I have contacted the maintainters  
offering to build a binary from the current cvs (which fixes several  
bugs that are in the 0.5.4 binary release).
* Provide a mechanism for installing info and patch files into the  
local tree, for testing. It would help speed up the package tracker a  
lot if there was a simple GUI-mediated mechanism for users to  
download .info and .patch files from the tracker and testing them.

In short, it is scandalous that such a key tool in the Fink suite has  
been neglected. I would venture that 99% of new Fink users depend in  
some way on FinkCommander, and I think more attention needs to be  
paid to its upkeep. If the previous authors aren't interested, then  
they could at least turn over cvs write access to someone who is.

Regards,
Phil.


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Benjamin Reed]

Asko Kauppi wrote:
> Wouldn't this be way too privacy-infringing?
> 
> I would personally draw the line to:
> - don't send anything identifying the user (no email ids etc.)
> - don't send anything about his/her environment (that would be  
> potentially identifying, too)

This would absolutely be opt-in, and yes, I agree that sending the 
user's environment is not necessary (Fink cleans the environment when 
doing builds anyways, so it should be pretty sanitary to send the 
environment used to build...)

> We all know there's plenty of privacy-concerned people out on the  
> net, and fink 'calling home' could be easily scandalized at slashdot,  
> osnews etc.  Since normally commercial tools are known to do such.   
> Why take risks?

Like I said, it definitely should not do it by default; perhaps a 
question during "fink configure" ("Would you like to send build results 
to the Fink development team to help them respond to build issues? [y/N]")

> Would not mind having a user feedback channel, either but the  
> packaging already carries the email addresses. I think I've gotten 0  
> mail through them, though. :)  Guess that means all is good?

perhaps...  I maintain KDE which has, as far as I can guess, hundreds of 
users, but I get maybe an e-mail every 3 weeks about it.  Feedback is 
pretty rare, that's one of the reasons something like this would be 
really helpful in getting things fixed and getting them to stable.


-- 
Benjamin Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick
Fink, KDE, and Mac OS X development
http://www.racoonfink.com/

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Asko Kauppi]

Wouldn't this be way too privacy-infringing?

I would personally draw the line to:
- don't send anything identifying the user (no email ids etc.)
- don't send anything about his/her environment (that would be  
potentially identifying, too)

We all know there's plenty of privacy-concerned people out on the  
net, and fink 'calling home' could be easily scandalized at slashdot,  
osnews etc.  Since normally commercial tools are known to do such.   
Why take risks?

But.. as a volunteer package maintainer I _very_ much would  
appreciate getting statistics feedback on package usage. Download,  
build, success/failure.  Maybe platform as well (PowerPC, Intel, # of  
CPUs would be great).

Would not mind having a user feedback channel, either but the  
packaging already carries the email addresses. I think I've gotten 0  
mail through them, though. :)  Guess that means all is good?

-asko


David Fang kirjoitti 6.12.2006 kello 9.07:

>> Charles Lepple wrote:
>>> On 12/4/06, Robert T Wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Cool! I think the simplest implementation would be to send a  
 successful
 build or install message to the maintainer
>
> Hi,
>
>   I also like this idea, but I think any build reports should also
> include the envinronment (as seen by fink dumpinfo).  Why?  I enable
> MAKEFLAGS (PkgVersion.pm) in my various fink installations, which
> occasionally causes builds to break.  I wouldn't want to report any
> false-failure due to parallel-unsafe compiles.  Admittedly, it's  
> been a
> long time since I've seen such a failure.
>
>   Taking this a step further, one could add an optional info field
> like: "ParallellMakeUnsafe: true" To turn off MAKEFLAGS on per package
> basis, and maybe leave MAKEFLAGS on by default for those of us with
> *really* slow dual CPUs.  :)  From my testing, only a small  
> minority of
> packages are affected by parallel-make.  With most Macs shipping  
> with 2+
> cores these days, informed users could more easily take advantage of
> multi-processors.
>
> David
>
> (anxiously awaiting quad-quad Macs)
>
>
> -- 
> ---
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to  
> share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php? 
> page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> ___
> Fink-devel mailing list
> Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[David Fang]

> Charles Lepple wrote:
> > On 12/4/06, Robert T Wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Cool! I think the simplest implementation would be to send a successful
> >> build or install message to the maintainer

Hi,

I also like this idea, but I think any build reports should also
include the envinronment (as seen by fink dumpinfo).  Why?  I enable
MAKEFLAGS (PkgVersion.pm) in my various fink installations, which
occasionally causes builds to break.  I wouldn't want to report any
false-failure due to parallel-unsafe compiles.  Admittedly, it's been a
long time since I've seen such a failure.

Taking this a step further, one could add an optional info field
like: "ParallellMakeUnsafe: true" To turn off MAKEFLAGS on per package
basis, and maybe leave MAKEFLAGS on by default for those of us with
*really* slow dual CPUs.  :)  From my testing, only a small minority of
packages are affected by parallel-make.  With most Macs shipping with 2+
cores these days, informed users could more easily take advantage of
multi-processors.

David

(anxiously awaiting quad-quad Macs)


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Benjamin Reed]

Charles Lepple wrote:
> On 12/4/06, Robert T Wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Cool! I think the simplest implementation would be to send a successful
>> build or install message to the maintainer
> 
> Last time that I remember this being discussed on IRC, though (in the
> context of popcon, which used to only submit its usage stats via
> email), we came to the conclusion that it is difficult to automate
> sending messages since Mac OS X (client) does not have a SMTP server
> configured. You would have to go through the system-selected mail
> client, which is a bit of a pain from a script.

from what I understand, popcon has an HTTP interface now, so it might be 
a bit more doable.

Sure, we won't get everyone, but it will get enough to get a good sample 
of users.


-- 
Benjamin Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick
Fink, KDE, and Mac OS X development
http://www.racoonfink.com/

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Charles Lepple]

On 12/4/06, Robert T Wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Cool! I think the simplest implementation would be to send a successful
> build or install message to the maintainer

Last time that I remember this being discussed on IRC, though (in the
context of popcon, which used to only submit its usage stats via
email), we came to the conclusion that it is difficult to automate
sending messages since Mac OS X (client) does not have a SMTP server
configured. You would have to go through the system-selected mail
client, which is a bit of a pain from a script.

Part of the problem is that not everyone is connected to the net all
the time (or they only have HTTP proxies), but at selfupdate time,
there is at least enough net connectivity to download packages. This
suggests that we might be better off going with some sort of CGI
script for stats submission, potentially hosted on finkproject.org.

-- 
- Charles Lepple

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Robert T Wyatt]

Benjamin Reed wrote:
> Robert T Wyatt wrote:
>> Build/installation statistics.
> 
> Variations of this have been on my todo list for a while.
> 
> I want to provide build pass/fail statistics auto-uploaded when 
> building, but also providing hooks to report usage would be nice too, 
> although more annoyingly invasive (and difficult to implement without 
> wrapping all binaries...)

Cool! I think the simplest implementation would be to send a successful
build or install message to the maintainer so at least *they* would know
that the package is working (and for how many people); unfortunately this
may be too burdensome for our volunteer maintainers. Perhaps a dedicated
recipient address could be used to store/sort/extract the data I think
transmitting the user's architecture/environment would be an important
part. (I guess spam and false reports would have to be filtered) Even
something as crude as sending the info to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] could be useful if the package,
version, and tree were in the subject.

It is intended to help in the area of moving things from unstable to stable
which is clearly a goal of the project.



-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Charles Lepple]

On 12/4/06, Benjamin Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I want to provide build pass/fail statistics auto-uploaded when
> building, but also providing hooks to report usage would be nice too,
> although more annoyingly invasive (and difficult to implement without
> wrapping all binaries...)

Rather than wrapping the binaries, we could settle for determining how
recently a given binary has been used (this is what the Debian popcon
package does). In addition to submitting binary package statistics to
their server, the popcon package helps the user prune old packages by
determining which packages are "unused" (based on stat() atime) and
sorting the unused package list by largest first.

This usage check is probably best scheduled as a background job, and
statistics could be pushed to a server at selfupdate time.

Since Fink has a somewhat different set of usage statistics to
collect, it might be better just to borrow some ideas from popcon, and
write the rest into the fink perl code. That way, there is no need to
keep the popcon list of distributions in sync with the main fink
codebase, etc.

I would be willing to take a closer look at this, if someone else who
is more familiar with the internals of fink could point me towards the
right places to hook into the selfupdate routine and so forth.

-- 
- Charles Lepple

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Benjamin Reed]

Robert T Wyatt wrote:
> Build/installation statistics.
> 
> Every time I open pine for the first time on a computer, it asks me if I
> would like to provide (anonymous) feedback to the maintainers. I think it
> would be great if fink.conf allowed for auto-feedback that could be stored
> somewhere on fink.sourceforge.net (or on the wiki) that would show
> successful/unsuccessful builds (and/or usage). I reckon it might need to
> account for revisions
> 
> The best I can currently manage is to post my currently installed for
> anyone interested. By the way, these are at:
> 
> [dual G5 at work]
> http://reg066.reg.utexas.edu/~rgrtw-05/fink/installed.txt
> 
> [recently reformatted 700MHz eMac at home]
> http://robertwyatt.info/fink/installed.txt
> (aka http://60.90.146.246/~robertwyatt/fink/installed.txt)
> (I just discovered this server isn't working and will fix it when I get home.)

Variations of this have been on my todo list for a while.

I want to provide build pass/fail statistics auto-uploaded when 
building, but also providing hooks to report usage would be nice too, 
although more annoyingly invasive (and difficult to implement without 
wrapping all binaries...)


-- 
Benjamin Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick
Fink, KDE, and Mac OS X development
http://www.racoonfink.com/

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Robert T Wyatt]

Build/installation statistics.

Every time I open pine for the first time on a computer, it asks me if I
would like to provide (anonymous) feedback to the maintainers. I think it
would be great if fink.conf allowed for auto-feedback that could be stored
somewhere on fink.sourceforge.net (or on the wiki) that would show
successful/unsuccessful builds (and/or usage). I reckon it might need to
account for revisions

The best I can currently manage is to post my currently installed for
anyone interested. By the way, these are at:

[dual G5 at work]
http://reg066.reg.utexas.edu/~rgrtw-05/fink/installed.txt

[recently reformatted 700MHz eMac at home]
http://robertwyatt.info/fink/installed.txt
(aka http://60.90.146.246/~robertwyatt/fink/installed.txt)
(I just discovered this server isn't working and will fix it when I get home.)


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Michèle Garoche]

David H wrote:

Dear community.

Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve
fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have  
noticed. For

the developers as well as the users.

I will try to track all the feature requests that I might see in this
thread. They will be added to the Wiki and once time has  
progressed and
the team has decided that some of them make a lot of sense I am  
planning

on holding a survey on the features that have been chosen.

This should help the development team to make a conscious and very
informed decision what new features should be implemented and how  
quickly.


So please spill your thoughts:

What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)
How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your  
request?
I'd like to see more tricks and tips on packages, either usage or  
packaging.


I second the possibility of breaking the packaging at any step in the  
process, enabling manual change, then continuing.



Cheers,
Michèle



-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Timothy Reaves]

I'd like to see a feature that'd slap people for stupidly 
cross-posting...

David H wrote:
> Dear community.
> 
> Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve 
> fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have noticed. For 
> the developers as well as the users.
> 
> I will try to track all the feature requests that I might see in this 
> thread. They will be added to the Wiki and once time has progressed and 
> the team has decided that some of them make a lot of sense I am planning 
> on holding a survey on the features that have been chosen.
> 
> This should help the development team to make a conscious and very 
> informed decision what new features should be implemented and how quickly.
> 
> So please spill your thoughts:
> 
> What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
> Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)
> How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your request?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> D. Hoehn
> Fink PR Dude
> FDN Board member
> 
> PS: Please reply only to ONE list! This has been cross posted to save time!
> 
> -d
> 
>


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[José H. Espinosa]

On Nov 23, 2006, at 4:54 PM, Jorge Acereda Maciá wrote:

> David H wrote:
>> What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
>> Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)
>
> I've been quite a long time away from Fink (no Mac at hand), and maybe
> these are already implemented. Here is a rough list anyway:
>
> - fink fetch : download package and dependencies
> - fink extract : extract downloaded package
> - fink patch : apply patch phase to package
> - fink mkpatch : generate a patch from an extracted (and
> posibly patched) source, just taking into account files named
> .orig (that is, copy foo.c to foo.c.orig, then edit foo.c  
> and
> it should generate automagically a patch)
> - fink edit : edit file with $VISUAL (or $EDITOR) generating a
> backup file .orig (preserving the existing .orig file if  
> present).
>
> You know, somewhat inspired in pkgsrc. Maybe we have things like that,
> in that case I'd love to hear from other people's tricks (or any  
> pointer
> to any documentation).

I totally second this suggestion.  As a new maintainer, the thing  
that I find more time consuming is having to repeat the hole process  
just to test a small change.  It will be nice to be able to tell fink  
just to perform just one of the steps. (eg fink test  ...  
for running the packages test)

>
>
>> How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your  
>> request?
>
> Faster package development? People probably have already these scripts
> written by themselves, but for the sporadic contributor it would be a
> great help.
>
>
>
> -- 
> ---
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to  
> share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php? 
> page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> ___
> Fink-devel mailing list
> Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[David Fang]

> > When the user decides to remove a packet he installed, fink should be
> > able to remove packets that are no longer necessary.
>
> I can see one obvious problem with such a feature, which has already bitten
> me using aptitude under Debian (has this built in). Package A has a
> dependency causes package B and package C to be installed. User uses package
> A for a while, and during this time notices package B and starts using that
> as well. They then decide to remove package A and suddenly package B also
> disappears (along with package C). User gets very annoyed :)
>
> I had precisely this experience a while back. The wording of standard
> aptitude warning "The following packages are unused and will be removed"
> makes little sense to a user when they quite clearly ARE using package B (as
> I was). The two workarounds are to either re-install package B (a nuisance),
> or cancel the removal of A, then try again but this time explicitly tell it
> to keep package B (also a nuisance).
>
> If this feature were to be implemented in fink, a more useful approach could
> be something like this:
>
> % fink remove packageA
> ...
> The following packages were only installed because packageA depends on them:
> packageB packageC
> Would you like to keep any of these packages? [Y/n] y
> Keep package packageB? [Y/n] y
> Package packageB will be KEPT.
> Keep package packageC? [Y/n] n
> Package packageC will be REMOVED.
> ...

Since the debfoster package does this sort of dependence-based
queried-pruning already, would it be possible to take advantage of it in
the fink front-end?

Fang


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Nigel Stanger]

On 24/11/2006 8:28 AM, Rainer Kupke at [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus:

> When the user decides to remove a packet he installed, fink should be
> able to remove packets that are no longer necessary.

I can see one obvious problem with such a feature, which has already bitten
me using aptitude under Debian (has this built in). Package A has a
dependency causes package B and package C to be installed. User uses package
A for a while, and during this time notices package B and starts using that
as well. They then decide to remove package A and suddenly package B also
disappears (along with package C). User gets very annoyed :)

I had precisely this experience a while back. The wording of standard
aptitude warning "The following packages are unused and will be removed"
makes little sense to a user when they quite clearly ARE using package B (as
I was). The two workarounds are to either re-install package B (a nuisance),
or cancel the removal of A, then try again but this time explicitly tell it
to keep package B (also a nuisance).

If this feature were to be implemented in fink, a more useful approach could
be something like this:

% fink remove packageA
...
The following packages were only installed because packageA depends on them:
packageB packageC
Would you like to keep any of these packages? [Y/n] y
Keep package packageB? [Y/n] y
Package packageB will be KEPT.
Keep package packageC? [Y/n] n
Package packageC will be REMOVED.
...

-- 
Nigel Stanger,   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND.Fnord.



-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Neil Tiffin]

On Nov 23, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Rainer Kupke wrote:

> David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve
>> fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have  
>> noticed. For
>> the developers as well as the users.
>
> Fink should remember which packets were installed because the user
> requested them and those that were installed only because of
> dependencies.
>
> When the user decides to remove a packet he installed, fink should be
> able to remove packets that are no longer necessary.

I second this. This would go a long way to solve the issues in my  
previous rant about complexity.

Neil


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Marco Bonetti]

It would be interesting to see:
+ "update-cached" to update saved but not installed packages, I think
it's pretty useful if keeping a collection of packages without having
to have all of them installed (and maybe an update-really-all ;-) )
+ "clean-all" to enable all of the clean target (don't know if it's
really useful, I haven't still take a closer look to the newer clean
system and I just run all of them in a script before uploading debs to
my site)

ciao

-- 
Marco Bonetti
Slackintosh Linux Project Developer: http://www.slackintosh.org
Linux-live for powerpc: http://www.slackintosh.org/pub/rsync/mb/linux-live
Fink packages and more: http://sidbox.homelinux.org

My GnuPG key id: 86A91047

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Rainer Kupke]

David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve 
> fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have noticed. For
> the developers as well as the users.

Fink should remember which packets were installed because the user
requested them and those that were installed only because of
dependencies. 

When the user decides to remove a packet he installed, fink should be
able to remove packets that are no longer necessary.


-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

Re: [Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[Jorge Acereda Maciá]

David H wrote:
> What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
> Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)

I've been quite a long time away from Fink (no Mac at hand), and maybe 
these are already implemented. Here is a rough list anyway:

- fink fetch : download package and dependencies
- fink extract : extract downloaded package
- fink patch : apply patch phase to package
- fink mkpatch : generate a patch from an extracted (and 
posibly patched) source, just taking into account files named 
.orig (that is, copy foo.c to foo.c.orig, then edit foo.c and 
it should generate automagically a patch)
- fink edit : edit file with $VISUAL (or $EDITOR) generating a 
backup file .orig (preserving the existing .orig file if present).

You know, somewhat inspired in pkgsrc. Maybe we have things like that, 
in that case I'd love to hear from other people's tricks (or any pointer 
to any documentation).


> How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your request?

Faster package development? People probably have already these scripts 
written by themselves, but for the sporadic contributor it would be a 
great help.



-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

[Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[David H.]

Dear community.

Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve 
fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have noticed. For 
the developers as well as the users.

I will try to track all the feature requests that I might see in this 
thread. They will be added to the Wiki and once time has progressed and 
the team has decided that some of them make a lot of sense I am planning 
on holding a survey on the features that have been chosen.

This should help the development team to make a conscious and very 
informed decision what new features should be implemented and how quickly.

So please spill your thoughts:

What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)
How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your request?

Thank you!

D. Hoehn
Fink PR Dude
FDN Board member

PS: Please reply only to ONE list! This has been cross posted to save time!

-d

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel

[Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[David H]

Dear community.

Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve 
fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have noticed. For 
the developers as well as the users.

I will try to track all the feature requests that I might see in this 
thread. They will be added to the Wiki and once time has progressed and 
the team has decided that some of them make a lot of sense I am planning 
on holding a survey on the features that have been chosen.

This should help the development team to make a conscious and very 
informed decision what new features should be implemented and how quickly.

So please spill your thoughts:

What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)
How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your request?

Thank you!

D. Hoehn
Fink PR Dude
FDN Board member

PS: Please reply only to ONE list! This has been cross posted to save time!

-d

-
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
___
Fink-devel mailing list
Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel