Re: hello
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hooray Annette you are a true lover of horses!!! Jean Gayle -Original Message- From: Annette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 10:13 PM Subject: hello >This message is from: "Annette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I've been lurking on the list and figured its high time I introduce myself. >My name is Annette Johnson and my address says Elbert, Colorado although I'm >really just NE of Colorado Springs. We own a couple of horses but, >certainly not Fjords. Our acreage doesn't have a even have a name. One of >our mares is 20 and has a droopy lip, a blind eye, and a split ear. The >truly frightening part is that we bought her that way. We are hoping to buy >a Fjord (in more pristine condition)...this year or next...and would >appreciate being pointed in the direction of some good farms in this region. > >The discussion last week about when to begin training was too much fun; >especially the part about taking your fjord on picnics and feeding it bread. >We have a collie mix who will leave a $20 steak on the counter but will run >off with a 99 cent loaf of bread. > >I'm learning a lot from the discussions here and look forward to reading the >digest each day. > >Annette > > > >
hello
This message is from: "Annette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've been lurking on the list and figured its high time I introduce myself. My name is Annette Johnson and my address says Elbert, Colorado although I'm really just NE of Colorado Springs. We own a couple of horses but, certainly not Fjords. Our acreage doesn't have a even have a name. One of our mares is 20 and has a droopy lip, a blind eye, and a split ear. The truly frightening part is that we bought her that way. We are hoping to buy a Fjord (in more pristine condition)...this year or next...and would appreciate being pointed in the direction of some good farms in this region. The discussion last week about when to begin training was too much fun; especially the part about taking your fjord on picnics and feeding it bread. We have a collie mix who will leave a $20 steak on the counter but will run off with a 99 cent loaf of bread. I'm learning a lot from the discussions here and look forward to reading the digest each day. Annette
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #369
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Joel a harman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [...] Some trial topics > > - Why do you choose to train/not train your own horses? To paraphrase an old mule proverb, "To train a Fjord, first you have to know more than the Fjord." I don't think that I qualify, so I buy already-trained animals, and try not to mess them up too badly. ;-) > - Do you lunge with a line or off the line? I only lunge when the vet needs to check out a lameness, which requires a controlled on-line trot. > - Do you keep your horses shod/have you ever shod your horses? I keep mine shod---even the retired 30-year-old mare who isn't ridden any more. The abrasive gravel in our corrals and on our roads (between barn and pastures) wears off hooves faster than they can grow. We rarely get more than one reset out of shoes! > - Have you ever thought of hauling your horses loose? No. The "cow-path" in and out of our place requires the maneuvering ability of a short-coupled, narrow towing vehicle. It does fine with the animals standing quietly, but not so well if the "cargo is shifting around". I put them where I want them, and tie them to keep them there. > - Have you ever thought of hauling your horses facing backwards? Always! One of ours was a "problem hauler", so I did some research, then bought a slant-load trailer is set up to haul slant-rear (couldn't get a true rear-face trailer). End of hauling problems! > - Why is there air? Because ;-) Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: taking it too personally
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > At 08:34 AM 2/27/99 -0500, you wrote: > >This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" look back > >to where they came from - Norway that you won't find many breeders there > >that are putting 10 - 20 foals on the ground a year either. Most are the 1 > >or 2 foals a year type of operation. > > I have the imported mare Stella (Stella II in NFHR) who was imported from > Norway in l981 by the Unraus. At the Libby Show in l991 I met Jon Hegdal > of the Norges Fjordhestlag and when he learned I had Stella, he said that > the family that had bred her would like to know about her, what had > happened to her, that most Fjord breeders iin Norway were just small > "back-yard" breeders raising only one or two foals a year and the horses > were like members of the family. Interesting you mention corresponding with Stella's "family" in Norway. When David Klove was here in the US the last time - or maybe the time before, I forget - he told me that Line's Norwegian owner (a very elderly gentleman at the time) would love to hear about her American home. He sent me the man's address when he returned to Norway and I sent the man an update on Line, with pictures. David assured me there would be someone to translate the English for him, as I don't write in Norwegian. It does seem that the Backyard Breeder (so to speak) is alive and well in Norway. After all, the horses there are part of the family and share in the work, as well as the pleasure - as do "family work horses" of all breeds all over the world. We here in America are the "different" ones I'm afraid. Mary == Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Gunnar
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---Jean Gayle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > So is choosing the top stallion and mare a sure thing. No, certainly > not at least in this case. However, this little fellow suits my needs > at this time of my life, besides I can always say, "but he has excellent > breeding". Jean, An interesting point. Choosing the "best" to breed together does not always result in superior animals, for a variety of reasons. One of the saddest things that happens is in the department of nutrition. Some of the best foals to hit the ground are unfortunately ruined by poor nutrition in their first year of life. Read the chapter in about Carol's trip to Holland in search of good yearling fillies to buy. It's a sad story of neglect in many instances. These babies were rated highly as weanlings, then taken home and ignored by their owners. They turned out to be ugly, less than desirable yearlings. A horse's entire life can be affected by how he is fed (or not fed) during his first year. It can result in a superior animal, or in a misshapen, poorly conformed animal that hasn't had a chance to grow properly. It's a terrible waste, but it does happen, usually through ignorance not through intentional neglect. Mary == Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Tom! Would that evaluation be held in MN? Thanks, Lynda, counting the days until Michigan!
Re: Unfavorable comments
This message is from: Bonnie Hendricks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ah, C'on, Pamela, No rest when yer doin' good! When I first joined this list out of my interest in these wonderful horses, every one was being SO nice to each other I thought I'd been beemed up to another planet. I've been on some lists where the fur nearly flies out of the computer in my face! But now over the last few days, I find I am still among humans ... The various opinions are interesting and while it does get a little "testy" at times, that too is just human. Carry on - charge forward boldly! Good information is coming out of the frey anyway, and I'm having a great time lurking! :) Bonnie -- For realistic oil paintings, Horse Portraits, Landscapes, Western & Wildlife http://home.cdsnet.net/~bhendrix http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html
Re: Evaluations
This message is from: "Tom Hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear Mike and all, I guess I am confused about having an evaluation. My understanding is that at present we have no evaluators- Is this incorrect. Am I wrong in that the NFHR BOD has to make some decisions on the recommendations of the Evaluation Committee before another evaluation can be held? Is it just rumors that Wayne and Jim will no longer work together and that we need two evaluators and that there are no other choices? Did the board decide something since the the middle of February about training more evaluators and giving them the "license" to evaluate? Please let me know on the digest or in person. Thanks Tom. P.S. The MWFHC will have another evaluation in 2000 if I have any say about it. Yes I'll do, and am aware of the work. -- > From: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Evaluations > Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 7:29 AM > > This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > At 04:01 PM 2/26/99 -0500, you wrote: > >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >I was worried about when/how to have my new Fjords evaluated as soon as > >possible. I actually recieved an email in answer stating something to the > >effect of not to worry, the MidWest Group has evaluations every THREE YEARS! > >Now seriously. How workable is this for those of us wishing to have our > >horses evaluated so we can indeed ascertain the level of quality we currently > >own, in order to "correctly" show and breed for conformation, temperament, > >movement, etc.? > > > >I know there is another evaluation scheduled NEXT year in CA. About 2500 > >miles away from me. I suppose I will have to load up every animal, regardless > >if I wish them evaluated or not, to make such a lengthy trip. No offense to > >anyone on the board, but I do get the impression the criteria of some of the > >list's PEERS is hard on small farms and newcomers due to the very fact of how > >inaccessible the current program is for small farms and newcomers to the Fjord > >world. > > I think it needs to be said here that the BOD of the NFHR has NEVER said no > to anyone or any group wishing to hold an evaluation. So lets not be > blaming them for the low numbers of evaluations going on. They are a LOT > of work for whoever decides to put one on. If you don't believe that just > ask Gayle, Nancy, Kit or Kip about it. They take an awful lot of > organization & planning. > > I would encourage any of the NFHR members that want an evaluation in there > area to step forward and say so. The only way they will continue is if > someone decides to do the work and put one on. Fair warning though, it > isn't a walk in the park! > > Mike > >
Re: Unfavorable comments
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/27/99 18:24:51 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I seriously wonder why I even remain on this list, just to be passed over and made to feel second-class because Lars has no testicles. >> Oh Merek, not to worry. We know Lars is top notch. I've got mares, and no gelding at this point, but I do believe geldings are solid citizens, never second class citizens. You can do anything, go anywhere with a gelding without worrying about PMS (pissed off mare syndrome) or testosterone. I've heard several people on this list tell wonderful stories about their geldings... just the post right above yours, from Jean re: Gunnar. Just jump in and post about some of the things you do with Lars if you aren't happy with some of the topics. I remember reading about his/your adventures on the AOL message board. This forum is as good and bad as we make it. Whenever you get a large group of people together, you are bound to learn something, and disagree with some. Obviously, owning a gelding you aren't really interested in breeding programs , but be grateful that the breeders that produced Lars wanted to get the best quality they could, and you have benefitted from their breeding program. So, while the mechanics of a breeding program may not be your cup of tea, you are reaping the benefits of research of those breeding programs. Hope I'm making sense and not being offensive, I've just got in from MORE bailing out of the barn, and I'm a whupped puppy!!! Time to rest for a while before I start the whole thing again Pamela
Unfavorable comments
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I assume this will be stopped before hitting the list, it's for YOU Mike. I notice that whenever I make an UNfavorable comment, such as complaining about big farm owners who beat their chests about their breeding programs and super stallions, while belittling small breeders and totally ignoring the average owners who may have a gelding or two and not even be in theor lofty loop. These people, the Revoires certainly high on the list, and the BoFjords too, would be wise to remember that without these little people, they would have to put a bullet into the heads of most of their male get, as there would be no market for them. I seriously wonder why I even remain on this list, just to be passed over and made to feel second-class because Lars has no testicles. Merek Geiger
Gunnar
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, I do not mind finding fault with my new boy Gunnar, gelding. I heard so many nice comments about Gunnar's breeding before I purchased him. Grabb, his sire, is mentioned extensively as a great stallion, just now Mike mentioned him also. Gunnar's dam, Gulldua, was as stated by Brian (I hope it was you, Brian) a beautiful mare. Now lets look at this new boy of mine who replaces my most loved fjord, Howdie. I spent over $600 on a vet check to assure soundness and health before buying. "Okay" with a round chip in right front fetlock that is old and not a problem. Signs of calcification in right hind hock, slight, but may be forerunner of arthritis. He is 16 and has been jumped, driven and ridden extensively. Toes in, both in front and rather dramatically in back. Actually the hind hooves land almost past the mid line of his underbelly. Small horse approximately 13.2 or 3. Long back. Not a typical strong jowl. Really cares less about people, in fact, liked to threaten with absolutely fierce eyes. More restrained now, but not a friendly eye. Never looked at you, only your hands for food and if not there gave hard butts with head. Is this a fjord temperament? Well of course the deed was done and he was gelded some years ago. He does have some very positive traits, i.e. very reliable under saddle, calm and has a glorious tail and forelock with beautiful large eyes that I hope to see friendly one day. He is easily led, no threats re kicking although there were threats of biting in the beginning. He obviously knows the difference between right and wrong which is making it easier to bring him back to where ever. So is choosing the top stallion and mare a sure thing. No, certainly not at least in this case. However, this little fellow suits my needs at this time of my life, besides I can always say, "but he has excellent breeding".
training
This message is from: "Laurie Pittman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jean, Thanks for your response. Proud cut was one of the first things I thought of and had the vet out to see what he thought. He was pretty sure that was not the case. I hope I haven't given you all the wrong impression of Tor. We really have come a long way since the stories I told. He has been quite a learning experience for me and he is becoming much more fun to work with. I wish I had a computer and had known about this list back then. Laurie
Re: Training
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Laurie, I hesitate to say this but he sounds like what the cowboys called, "proud cut." Walking through you seems pretty common for horses that are not schooled for awhile. My boy was very well mannered until I had some surgery and did not work with him for about three months. He would bull past me, pull hard on the lead and could be obnoxious until we got back to who was boss. I was his property and he always "protected" me from the other horses but he could be stubborn. however Tor sounds more than full of himself. Let us know how he progresses. Jean Gayle NW Wa. state -Original Message- From: Laurie Pittman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 3:28 PM Subject: Training >This message is from: "Laurie Pittman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Hello all, one >with a fjord who is totally convinced that the world should go according to >his plans. Period. Don't get me wrong, Tor is not a bad fjord! But he is >tough
[no subject]
This message is from: misha nogha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks to everyone who responded to my query. I really appreciate people like Julia, Ceacy and Brian Jensen, long term breeders, who took the time to help out that learning curve. Thanks to to Dr. Brian Jacobsen--yes--you're right, I care--deeply. I have to agree with those people who don't want evaluations mandatory, it would just be too much of a burden for many of us small breeding operations whose day to day budgets and time is already stretched abosulutely to the max. However, continuing it on a voluntary basis is fine. My nervousness about the ideal horse continues because having been into Appaloosas and Quarter horses before Fjords, I found some not too cool things happening. Not the least of which is halter horses that looked like the ideal horse but were not able to be used for riding. Then again, there was the problem of HYPP. Impressive (AQHA) was used extensively in Paint, QH and App breeding because he apparently had that ideal conformation everyone was looking for. However, this stallion was responsible for a lethal gene that caused many horses to have to be put down or retired from performance. I think diversity is the way to go. I am one of those breeders who tries to be the consummate professional. I study horse health issues, top lines of many different breeds, attend shows, health and conformation clinics, training clinics, etc. I have to say though, I don't show horses. I don't like competition. I prefer cooperation. Maybe it's my genetics? So when I take my horses out, it's usually a low key event. The Fjords have really done the breed good at these events though, as you all knew they would, and just by being out there and being good horses interest has picked up sharply in our area which is mostly Quarter horse country. I'll tell you one thing, if my horses had poor comformation I would hear about it from the other breeders, vets, farriers, etc. My Fjords are on display all the time and I get A LOT of horse owners and breeders hanging over my fences, pulling their chins and eventually handling my horses. I always breathe a big sigh of relief when they say, and they always have so far, that's a damn fine bunch of horses you got there. Whew. Horse people know conformation, and as has been said on this list, it doesn't matter if it's a Clyde or a Quarter horse, a poor animal shows it. So far I have been lucky and haven't had any foals with big faults, but if I do, I will cull the horse. Like many breeders, I have devoted my life to these horses. Uh--last question--what's a wardrobe?
Re: Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/27/99 15:30:18 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I'm looking forward to getting him going again, if it ever quits raining (I'm in NW Washington). >> You too? It's pretty miserable here in NW Oregon right now too. The horses were begging me to let them come back into their stalls (which I did after I bailed/syphoned the barn out). This is our first rainy season on this property. As soon as the weather dries out, we're putting french drains in. AND putting another couple inches of sand in our arena. I don't mind riding in the rain, as long as there is good footing. Pamela
Training
This message is from: "Laurie Pittman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello all, Well I guess I'm going to change the subject back to training. I would really like to get some feed back from some of you who have less than cooperative fjords. It took a long time to find anyone else who would admit to having one like that. For the longest time I thought I was the only one with a fjord who is totally convinced that the world should go according to his plans. Period. Don't get me wrong, Tor is not a bad fjord! But he is tough. If he wants to cooperate, he's the best horse to work with. If not, he's the toughest. No fights or tantrums or anything like that, just "nope, won't do it, can't make me, I'm stronger than you." I should back up a little here first. I have raised young horses before, so I understand about things like teaching manners, keeping lessons short, and not asking too much at a young age. I've had horses for about 20 years now so I though nothing of getting a young fjord to raise. Boy was I wrong! I was totally unprepared for his bold attitude and for just how strong he was, and his willingness to use it to his advantage. I remember the first time I opened the door to his stall, I was prepared for him to try and come out, but I wasn't ready for him to just butt me with his head and plow on through (Tor was 7 months old at this point). Needless to say, I did put a stop to that. When I started teaching him to tie I wanted to make sure that if he argued about it that he couldn't break anything, so I used one of those 1 inch rubber ties. Well, for any other horse that would have been great. Not Tor! He figured "hey, this giveslets see how much". He never sat back and pulled, he just walked away. When that got too hard, he just locked that head down and kept going. When that got too hard, he dropped to his knees. I have a picture of him doing this, on his knees with his face in the dirt"just a little more". He started out with 12 inches of slack, he must have stretched it out 3 times that. I don't use rubber ties with him anymore. He doesn't even mess with a regular tie. Other things he would do is bellow at me and kick at the whip when lunging him. If all else failed he would throw himself on the ground. I'm very happy to say he has out grown those things. *Whew* One time while ground driving him he decided he was done (after about 5 minutes) and he tried to lay down. I had put a crupper on to keep him from getting his head down. He didn't care, he just kept rooting at the (rubber) bit until he ripped the ring out of my surcingle and then dropped to the ground, then jumped up, and bucked and bellowed at me when I got after him. It was at this point that I knew I needed help. Well, to keep an already long story from getting too much longer, I did get help. Found a wonderful trainer who knows fjords. The first thing she said when he got out of the trailer was "Oh, the lights are on". She later told me he was one of the toughest fjords she had ever worked with but also very bright, and that he has the potential to be outstanding. He is just not a horse that I can cut any slack. Before I end this, here is a good Tor story. I got to take him to a clinic with Brian Jensen when he was here for a Fjord Fun Day. I had told Brian about him ahead of time, hoping for some advice. We got to the clinic and Tor had a total liar out of me. He was a perfect gentlemen all day. I couldn't believe it. I was so proud of him! He was a little lazy in our lesson but that's ok. we had a great day, and I learned a lot from Brian and Ursula. Well I hope I haven't made Tor sound too terrible, he really isn't. He's 5 years old now and really growing up. I'm looking forward to getting him going again, if it ever quits raining (I'm in NW Washington). Happy Fjording Laurie
Stud fees etc.
This message is from: "Janne Myrdal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There's been alot of great discussions on the digest lately, THANKS to Misha, Lindsay, Carol, Julie, Lynda and several others. Keep it up, for everyone of you voicing something there is many of us "lurkers" listening and learning. As a somewhat new Fjord owner(3 years), yet not new to the Equine world(trained trotters in Norway, QH in TX) I wanted to put my two cents in on a few issues. Julie, I am a mare owner, and YES, I would love to breed to some of the "Top" stallions of my choice, but because of our location and the cost involved, it does become hard. We are breeding our two mares back to a nice stallion this spring after a two year break, but we have to haul them 7 hours away and that gets to be far when you have a family and little kids. Not that this stallion is not nice, HE IS and he charges a very fair price, but if we had more choices it would be fun. Alos, it would be great to have a complete stud book with performance history etc. etc. listed on all stallions. I am the type that loves to be further educated on anything I do, and have studied a bunch of the info out there on bloodlines etc. And I think every owner comes up with the idea of what we think is the perfect fjord, which will of course differ from what another owner thinks. That is the beauty of it all, is'nt it?? I know what fits my family and what pleases my eye AND SOUL when I look at a horse. That does not make us a "backyard breeder", because we are not breeders, but OWNERS AND USERS AND ENJOYERS OF THE BREED, and would NEVER promote anything that would in any way be detrimental to the breed. I have sadly seen pictures of poor looking yearlings and studs, and have even been offered to buy several yearlings for a COMBINED price of less than $1000, now that is a bit scary. Not that it is all in the price, but if you want quality ypou have to pay for it, right?? So, let the discussion on Stallions and fees continue!!! The other comment I would love to make is that there are many of us new and small farm Fjord owners out here who would LOVE to get our horses to the evaluations to learn and know what we have when judged by the NFHR standards, but like Lynda, TX said, we do not all have opportunity to travel such long distances. AND secondly do not know what it all entails to bring our horses. But I for one would gladly be part of putting together something for our region if we could get a few people involved to help. How about something for the Northern part of the mid.west Anyone out there have any ideas, info etc. I think we could do this thing, network and learn as well as spread the word wider about this beautiful creature from God's country. ( Could not help myself.) OK, I'll hit send, but just wanted to voice an opinion from a small farm in Northern ND, where it is wonderfully mild. Janne Myrdal
Re: Norwegian Standards / Flyer / Chat/ Backyard Breeder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/27/99 11:17:58 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I wanted to say that ( here) in my heavy horse infested town of Norco, Ca. the term is met with a different twist. We have every breed represented here, and many of the" Big Boys "of the Quarter Horse, Paint, Arabian, Morgan, Warmblood, Fresian, ect. are standing at Stud, and people from all over the country ship their mares here , and also keep a swarm of vets very busy during AI, Breeding and Foaling season. Backyard Breeder's take on a new meaning, when you continue to read about your friends down the street, leading the nation in points, and winning overseas compititions with their respective breeds. >> That's right. I have a dear friend who lives in Norco, who I think you have probably seen. I know she's seen you and your fjords . She's got the Andalusian stallion, Bando. She's NOT made out of money, has a small facility, and puts her money into her horses, not her wardrobe. A wonderful woman with a sense of humour. She is indeed a backyard breeder who has a stallion that knocks out some of the nicest Andys in the country!! Backyard breeding doesn't have to be a dirty word, if it's done correctly! BTW if you see her, tell her I said Hi! Pamela
Re: Norwegian Standards / Flyer / Chat/ Backyard Breeder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 99-02-27 05:54:44 EST, you write: << This message is from: "Catherine Lassesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In November, I wrote that I have a copy of the Norwegian Standards in English. It is still available at the price of copying it & mailing it. UNLESS you all want me to put it on the list. Then Y'all owe me a drink! ;o) -- >> O-K Catherine, if you can handle Tequila shooters, we'll line um up.Pleaseprint that copy of the Norwegian Standards here, and we will be eternally grateful.(.and drunk.) Catch up with you in Turlock ! Joel, just wanted to let you know how much I have been enjoying your posts lately, and wondered if you would grace our " Chatty Group " TOOT TOOT sometime, for a lesson and questions about your logging with Fjordsyou know where to find us ! Regarding the term " Backyard Breeders " I wanted to say that ( here) in my heavy horse infested town of Norco, Ca. the term is met with a different twist. We have every breed represented here, and many of the" Big Boys "of the Quarter Horse, Paint, Arabian, Morgan, Warmblood, Fresian, ect. are standing at Stud, and people from all over the country ship their mares here , and also keep a swarm of vets very busy during AI, Breeding and Foaling season. Backyard Breeder's take on a new meaning, when you continue to read about your friends down the street, leading the nation in points, and winning overseas compititions with their respective breeds. BTW, my own Stallion " Fair Acres Nels " X Anvils Steinfin stands not in my backyard, but Margaret and Barry Strakin's. Does that count? We have been getting used to the Bird-In-Hand Flyer we found, and bought privatly, now for a week or so. It is a wonderful vehicle, and drives well both single and pairs. Headed up to the hills just 2 days ago, and it pulled up some rather steep inclines, it was super. Comming down, we had our brake, to help keep the weight of the carraige off the britchin, and again no problems. On the flat, it is the most comfortable vehicle Ive been in, and couldnt be more pleased. We have decided to return the pole we found, as the singletrees are far too wide, to do pairs with in narrow spots, and have found a new Bird-In-Hand Pole, from a man up North, still in its wrap, who cant use it. Bernadine, Im still keeping my feelers out for you, found one for sale, but alas, when I called, it was Warmblood sz. Keep the faith, we will find you one ! A reminder to all, to join PAV Aussie, ( Jackie from Down Under ) and I for Fjord Chat, Sun. night at 9:00 Eastern time, at PetsandVets on the Net. Its in Horse room # 1. Every week, new " faces " and its alot of fun to talk live with people who we read from every day here ! Hope to see you there..Bill in Mn. sorry you got bummped out last week, try again, O-K? Keep getting dumped out myself. : ( Bye all from Sunny Norco, 78 today, but warming up by Sun. ( DUCKING ) http://www.petsandvets.com/";>PETS AND VETS http://volano1.suresite.com/petsvets/vcclient/horsechat.html";>HORSE CHAT ROOM Lisa Pedersen PAV FJORDS
Re: Evaluation pamphlet
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Brian! I love your idea, and yes it would be of GREAT help!! I would like to see a couple of other additions, I think, simply because I am so new, so of course am probably seeing things much differently than you more knowledgeable people. If you would like to hear my thoughts, I will try to formulate them first, and then send the thoughts to you. Thanks, Lynda
Re: Evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Mike! I have no doubt it is very hard work. I was merely pointing out the fact that to a newcomer, it almost seems as if all horses are "worthless" as breeders unless they have been shown/evaluated, which I can certainly understand. BUT, to avoid this problem, more evaluations seems to be the answer. I am sure once my feet are thoroughly sunk very deep in the manure pile, I will be asking how one does this evaluation thing. Lynda, temporarily from Texas where it is STILL bloody hot
Re: Apology for blowing my stack
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello, from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - I really am sorry for giving everybody indigestion! This is a "round the kitchen table" discussion group, and I can certainly understand nobody wants to be lectured to or yelled at. I know I can be a pain in the neck, and I've been told to "lighten up" more than once (usually by Arthur), so I hope you'll all accept my sincere apologies for curdling the cream in your morning coffee. I banged (literally) that post off late at night, and while I was hammering at the keys, a little voice in the back of my head was warning me to cool it. I ignored the little voice, and had a miserable night's sleep. Retribution! I can take criticism, and hopefully I can profit by it. What I've learned from this is that - The point I wanted to make was completely lost due to my over zealous, strident presentation. And I've also learned that no matter my intentions, I don't have the right to inflict my passions on this forum. I'll try again, very briefly, to make that point. -- Most of the stallions Holland stands are Norwegian bred and Norwegian Approved breeding stallions. Van Bon has traveled to Norway with a horse trailer, and brought them back. Therefore, it stands to reason that the "type" of Fjords bred in both countries is very similar. In my opinion, to encourage the idea that Holland has one type of Fjord, and Norway another is counter-productive. A Fjord is a Fjord is a Fjord, in both countries. Humbly yours, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: taking it too personally
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 08:34 AM 2/27/99 -0500, you wrote: >This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" look back >to where they came from - Norway that you won't find many breeders there >that are putting 10 - 20 foals on the ground a year either. Most are the 1 >or 2 foals a year type of operation. I have the imported mare Stella (Stella II in NFHR) who was imported from Norway in l981 by the Unraus. At the Libby Show in l991 I met Jon Hegdal of the Norges Fjordhestlag and when he learned I had Stella, he said that the family that had bred her would like to know about her, what had happened to her, that most Fjord breeders iin Norway were just small "back-yard" breeders raising only one or two foals a year and the horses were like members of the family. I later got a letter from the young daughter of the family who had raised Stella, asking about her, how she was used, etc. I sent her pictures and details of Stella's Life with me and learned about Stella's Norwegian family. I thought this was pretty neat. I hope that Fjords can remain a "family enterprise" here in the US but feel that we should be very selective about Stallions. Only the exceptional horse should remain Stallions. It IS a real problem living up here in Alaska, with only one Stallion in the whole state that I know of, and I had a bad experience with AI, spending a lot of money with no results. I won't breed my young mare, Anvil's Adel (Stella's granddaughter by the way) until I have a buyer for the foal (or I need another horse :-)], and I'll probably try AI again, instead of breeding to the "local" Stallion, as he is just not quite as good as I'd like. (However he is producing some very nice looking offspring so I may reconsider) Let's be choosy about our Stallions, but don't underrate the people who only breed one or two mares occasionally! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, -4F this morning but going to be sunny and +10. Light already before 8:00 AM and almost ten hors daylight! Great weather for ice carving and dog sledding!> > >=== > >Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry >Mike May, Registrar >Voice 716-872-4114 >FAX 716-787-0497 > >http://www.nfhr.com >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #369
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay Joel, I'll bite. answering some questions I'll train the basics and get them started and green broke. From then on, I need somebody else to fine tune. Lunge on a line and lunge off line. Both have their places Right now all the horses are barefoot. When we start riding on trails, etc. they will all get at least front shoes will probably keep the back shoes off while the mares are all in a pasture together Juniper's been hauled loose and does fine she turns backwards and faces outsides at times. She does fine when I tie her too. See my previous post about her perfection Air? Plenty of it to take big deep breaths and relax a bit! LOL Pamela
Re: Stallions, "Backyard breeders", etc.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/27/99 5:55:00 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << No one is going to find a perfect Fjord in their barn (or pasture). >> Well darn. I'm STILL looking for a flaw in Juniper. Can't find one. When I asked Ginny what she thought was her worst flaw, she said her back is a little long. Hmmm. I think she was really struggling to come up with a flaw too. When I've asked my vets in New Mexico and Oregon to come up with a flaw, they couldn't find one. Anne? Did you see any when we brought her up to breed to Misha? Don't be shy, if you did, I'd like to hear it. Living with perfection is tough. Oh and her temperment too. It is also flawless. I'll bring her to the next evaluation and see if anybody can find anything wrong with this mare. We won't talk about Nikki. She's got several obvious flaws, but she sure does throw nice babies! Pamela
Re: Stallions, "Backyard breeders", etc.
This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Julia Will wrote: > Now to REALLY stir up a storm, how does the cost of the stud fee influence > whether an owner keeps his/her own mediocre stallion or breeds to a top > quality stallion with an evaluation or show record? Cost of the stud fee is certainly an issue, as is geography. Shipping your mare an hour or two away is very different than sending her eight hours away - both cost-wise and worry-wise, if she has a foal at foot. When you add on all the anciliary costs such as shipping, mare care, loss of use of your mare/worry about a foal at foot, or if you go the AI route, vet fees for numerous visits for palpation and finally insemination, lets not forget running to the airport to pick up semen, getting an ultrasound to see if it worked, and if it didn't, doing the whole routine again - its all very complicated and the dollars do add up very quickly. And if the mare doesn't catch, it ends up being very disappointing in addition to very expensive - which makes stallion ownership start to look attractive. On the other hand, owning and managing a stallion is likely just as expensive, complicated, and frustrating! But that's horses for you - if you think about it too hard, we're all nuts :-) Lori BTW - good post Julie
Re: Norwegian Standard
This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Specifically, you can count > on an Aquavit from me in Norway this May. Or, as I prefer to call it, AquaVelva! Lori much preferring the Norwegian horse to the Norwegian drink
Norwegian Standard
This message is from: "Dr. John G. Crawford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >In November, I wrote that I have a copy of the Norwegian Standards in >English. It is still available at the price of copying it & mailing it. >UNLESS you all want me to put it on the list. Then Y'all owe me a drink! ;o) YES, post it to the list, Catherine. I'm sure any or all the list participants will be happy to provide libation. Specifically, you can count on an Aquavit from me in Norway this May. Regards, Dr. John G. Crawford Sandy Fjord Farm Streator, Illinois
Backyard breeders, etc.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know about the other average members on this list, not the Revoirs and Baldcoms and the likes with their big farms, but the people like me with a gelding or two, but when all these discussions about what to breed, not to breed, this and that begin, my main reaction is to reach for the "DEL" key and get on with something more useful. Merek
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #369
This message is from: Joel a harman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ladies & Gentleman, I believe the toilet is overflowing. Perhaps we should give it a rest. We are all adults here. Some trial topics - Why do you choose to train/not train your own horses? - Do you lunge with a line or off the line? - Do you keep your horses shod/have you ever shod your horses? - Have you ever thought of hauling your horses loose? - Have you ever thought of hauling your horses facing backwards? - Why is there air? Cheers Joel Harman ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Backyard breeders?
This message is from: Sessoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Misha wrote ... Will somebody please give me a definitive explanation of the term, 'backyard breeder'? It is easier for me to describe the term as it applies to Labradors; the 'backyard breeder' makes more sense when you look at it as it applies to a very, popular dog breed. But the definition of 'backyard breeder' is the same in any pure-bred animal, including the Norwegian Fjord Horse, only the particulars are different ... While reading this remember that the raw definition of pure-bred is "limited gene pool". That means good breeders have to contend with the good stuff and the bad stuff that are inherent within the genes of any closed population of pure-bred animals. Bad breeders don't think about it very much. The 'backyard breeders' are the people responsible for the 10-15 litters of Labradors advertised in our local newspaper nearly every week. The most likely reason those puppies were created was to give the owner of the bitch a little pocket money. At a mere $250 a pup, the only guarantee you'd get is that the bitch was not cleared for the health problems that do crop up in even the most carefully planned litters of the best bloodlines ... dysplasia, heart murmurs, OCD and eye problems. These pups would be lucky to get their rounds of parvo shots and other shots puppies need before they leave their dam, or worm meds, or even high quality food and basic, clean care. And the new puppy owners are not likely to get proper puppy care and training instructions or support if a problem should develop. The sire was probably chosen simply because the bitch owner ran across the dog and his owner at the local park and he thought the dog was really cool. Many 'backyard breeders' do give proper health care to the bitch and her litter because she is a beloved house pet; but too often that's not the case, by the time the pups get advertised, the poor bitch might have ribs showing, and her teats chewed to ribbons because she was slightly malnourished, wormy and stuck in a pen in the basement or backyard with a hungry litter that should have been properly weaned from her starting weeks ago. And sometimes the little puppies are separated from their dam much too early because the breeder can't or won't keep up with the mess. Unlike humans, dogs learn the basic social skills as tiny babes with the dam and the littermates. If these critical lessons are lost the pup may turn into an adult with behavioral problems. You know you've found a 'backyard breeder' if he/she is finding homes for five or six week old puppies. You can see byb Labradors, many with behavioral problems, any day of the week at shelters all over the country. The 'backyard breeder' can't discuss pedigrees except to tell you that the dogs grandfather was 'Super Charger' or a 'Shamrock Acres' dog. The 'backyard breeder' will brag that his dogs are all AKC registered as though that, in itself, meant something special and is a reason to breed. The 'backyard breeder' probably has never participated in any competition where he/she would be exposed to knowledgeable dog people. It takes study and information gained through exposure to the animals and people who do it right. The good breeder learns what their breed is all about. They learn just what characteristics are typical of their breed and what characteristics might crop up that are wanted and what to avoid. It takes knowledge and hands-on experience to learn what is correct about your dogs and what physical and temperament characteristics you do and don't want to double up on. That's what the conformation shows are about - learning - not a beauty pageant; and any breeder that tells you that shows are beauty pageants hasn't got a clue. Another words, the 'backyard breeder' doesn't even know, really know, what a Labrador is, whether his bitch is of breeding quality or not. Chances are good he/she doesn't even know the simple basics about the breed like ... you don't breed chocolates and yellows together. He often says he breeds 'rare chocolate Labs', 'rare fox red Labs', 'rare white Labradors' or 'golden Labs', and then he charges more money for the 'rare' colors without even realizing there is no such thing - Labs are black, chocolate or yellow; the chocolates and yellows come in various shades ... period. He brags that the stud dog was 120 lbs and had an 'English block head'. They also perpetuate terrible behavior problems like hyper or sharp Labradors. Or untypical physical traits like long rat tails, fine bones, almond-shaped eyes, tucked-up tummies or terrier-type ears. President Clinton owns a 'backyard bred' Lab! The 'backyard breeder' probably won't be able to tell you how to name your dog, or what the meaning of the kennel names are. He probably thinks those long names on the pedigree are just a bunch of hooey. He probably can't tell you what the titles before and after the names mean. The 'backyard breed
Re: Stallions, "Backyard breeders", etc.
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:53 PM 2/26/99 -0600, you wrote: >This message is from: "Jon A. Ofjord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >While we are only a five horse operation at the moment and might be >considered a "backyard breeder" (actually the horses are in the front yard) >we always strive for quality. We have tried to educate ourselves any way we >can about our horses because we care a great deal about them and their well >being. If that makes us backyard breeders, so be it. Actually I think this "backyard breeder" term is usually used for stallion owners. It is a BAD term at any rate since it really has no single meaning. I don't think many people would consider Lindsay Sweeney a "backyard breeder" but looking at the NFHR records she has only 3 Fjords in her name presently. One of them is Solar. He is as well know as Grabb & Gjest for sure. So my opinion is that the term be struck from all of our vocabularies and move on. I don't think the breeding operation should be judged by size but definitely by QUALITY!!! === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stallions, "Backyard breeders", etc.
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:02 PM 2/26/99 -0500, you wrote: >This message is from: Julia Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sorry for the long-winded email! I'm going to (gulp) push the "send" >button. Ready, aim, fire! Julie I don't think you have any reason to gulp on that one Julie. GREAT stuff. GREAT idea too - everyone go look in their own barns or pastures. Seriously now. No one is going to find a perfect Fjord in their barn (or pasture). Every one of the well know stallion owners can tell you at least 2 or 3 faults of their stallions. They all have some. The problem comes in when some of them have way to many of them! my $0.02 worth... Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Evaluations
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 04:01 PM 2/26/99 -0500, you wrote: >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >I was worried about when/how to have my new Fjords evaluated as soon as >possible. I actually recieved an email in answer stating something to the >effect of not to worry, the MidWest Group has evaluations every THREE YEARS! >Now seriously. How workable is this for those of us wishing to have our >horses evaluated so we can indeed ascertain the level of quality we currently >own, in order to "correctly" show and breed for conformation, temperament, >movement, etc.? > >I know there is another evaluation scheduled NEXT year in CA. About 2500 >miles away from me. I suppose I will have to load up every animal, regardless >if I wish them evaluated or not, to make such a lengthy trip. No offense to >anyone on the board, but I do get the impression the criteria of some of the >list's PEERS is hard on small farms and newcomers due to the very fact of how >inaccessible the current program is for small farms and newcomers to the Fjord >world. I think it needs to be said here that the BOD of the NFHR has NEVER said no to anyone or any group wishing to hold an evaluation. So lets not be blaming them for the low numbers of evaluations going on. They are a LOT of work for whoever decides to put one on. If you don't believe that just ask Gayle, Nancy, Kit or Kip about it. They take an awful lot of organization & planning. I would encourage any of the NFHR members that want an evaluation in there area to step forward and say so. The only way they will continue is if someone decides to do the work and put one on. Fair warning though, it isn't a walk in the park! Mike
Re: taking it too personally
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 11:05 AM 2/26/99 -0800, you wrote: >This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I hope half the things that have been said here are with tongue in >cheek. If we have a social strata with the "backyard horse owner" some >kind of a lesser person then I think we better recheck our values. >Where have our breeds come from in the first place but from mixes that >man had little/ or nothing to do with in the beginning. Yes I think your right Jean. I also think that if we all take a look back to where they came from - Norway that you won't find many breeders there that are putting 10 - 20 foals on the ground a year either. Most are the 1 or 2 foals a year type of operation. I don't know if breeders in Norway normally keep their own stallions or not though. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Translation
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 12:49 PM 2/26/99 -0800, you wrote: >This message is from: "Catherine Lassesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I have faxed two pages to Rune's ship What does he do Catherine? Where does he go on this "Ship" Sounds interesting.
