Vitamin E for Neurological Damage
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" See this link. http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=12025 Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Trimming whiskers on Fjords
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I am assuming that the whiskers help in an area in which the horse would otherwise be blind? I have actually wondered how they even take things out of my hand. Gail Russell Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: nerve damage
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Can you describe a bit more? --- Original Message --- >From: Cheryl[mailto:che...@finefjords.com] Sent: 11/14/2009 2:14:28 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: nerve damage This message is from: "Cheryl" If anyone has experience dealing with nerve damage would you please e mail privately. Id like to know how it was dealt with and the outcome. Thank you, Cheryl in elizabeth,colorado Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Another genetic topic
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I have recently had occasion to learn to appreciate those hairy legs and body. an Arab/Qh cross mare who is gorgeous and athletic...and also a P.I.T.A. in various ways. Flighty, and all she has to do is touch the pipe panels and she will find some imperfection that she can cut her pretty little coat on. The latest was a cannon bone slice, that took us weeks of doctoring to get rid of. The Fjord hides/fur are so tough that they almost never come up with the usual little dings that the lighter coated horses get. It is true that you need to clip them in the spring and fall so they can actually move without expiring from the heatbut...other than that...the fluffiness is much to be desired. I do not like seeing the Fjords that look like TB crosses...even though I know they sell well. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: White Dun's with White Markings
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" You should definitely fill out the survey on Silas. That is the way the answer to your question can be found. Gail Russell Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: "not right, white?"
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" So...what does white have to do with temperament...anecdotally or scientifically proven? What about the "crazy paint" phrase I have heard more than once? What about the story (from Jean Ernest, I think) about foxes being bred for more domesticity to ease handling of fur producing foxes, only to get more white? Everytime I see herds of "wild" horses with heavy duty spots and blazes, I wonder about natural selection? (Jim just went out to the Sheldon Wildlife Refuge and took pics of blacks with blazes, plus a chestnut w/ flaxen mane and tail and her perfect tovero offspring (I think it was a plant...not the product of the herd.) Gail Ruthie said. Am I advocating we pursue spotting? No. Do I have spotted Fjords out back? No. (which is not to say they may have them in their genetic mix). My position is that we adhere to the Fjord horse Standard and thereby allow the occasional small white star, because I believe it would be detrimental to weed them all out. Blazes and white feet, maybe no way. I did however recently hear an interesting item about a dog breed, that had at one time bred out every semblance of white from their registry.. only to frantically search for those outcasts for breeding, some time later, when they found themselves in deep inbred difficulty. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Parelli Clinic
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" You are correct! Maybe that remark will be the catalyst to all of us to think about expanding our helmet use even further. One problem is the shade. Here is a Troxel Western hat that looks better than ones I have seen previously. http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=6921 Here is a huge visor that looks like it might be better than the others I have tried. http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=5446&cm_sp=RVP -_-ProductClass-_-EquiVisor However, I think it might be a stretch to get Clinton Anderson into this one. Gail On the ground no (which btw can be just as dangerous), but in the saddle - YES. Heather ___ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: fjordhorse-digest V2009 #198
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Sohow does a little white beget a lot of white??? Or maybe it doesn't??? That would be something to learn from the study. Like...how big can that star get before you should not even breed that mare with the white star. Etc. oh yes, Gail, I agree, no reason to be defensive at all. Studies are just that.to study. I also agree about more white worse ( ?? ) than less white. A small star on a mare is different than a white blaze or 4 big socks on a stallion. So, does any big line NOT have white in their offspring ? That is what you would find out from the study Lisa. Get thee to the study page and start filling out surveys. http://www.murraystate.edu/fjord_horse/ My mistake on both parents needing to carry the genes. I will have to read Phills article again. Read a few things at the site as well. This...about dominance, recessive, variable expression and incomplete penetrance. http://www.murraystate.edu/fjord_horse/ And this at the same site, about incomplete penetrance of white in Fjords. http://www.murraystate.edu/fjord_horse/ NOw go fill out those forms! Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: hmmmm, that dead elephant again
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Lisa...go to the website where the form is. There is a chart there that shows the trait is dominant...and only takes one parent. However, it is an incomplete dominant (they used another name, which is undoubtedly more correct), in that it skips generations. That much they know. You SHOULD fill out this form, instead of being defensive, as I doubt it is going to compromise any great old bloodlines. One thing they may find out is which lines carry bigger white patches...or white patches in certain places...since the white is characterized by (1) where it is (2) how much there is and what pattern and (3) whether it is dominant or recessive. And probably some other characteristics that the study designers know much better than I. So...get thee to the website and fill out the forms. (Claylee's Gunthar has a tiny white Ermine mark on one foot.) Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Helmets, adjustments...rt
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I was sort of hoping that the "scalp must move" rule could be avoided if one had a helmet that came down over the back of the neck...like the Tipperary. My theory is the more encompassing shape of the Tipperary means the helmet stays in place better. The helmets that have moved my scalp have hurt and given me headaches. If the "scalp must move" rule is about not having any travel space for the head when head and helmet hit the ground (such that both hit at the same time) I can see that the rule would still apply. If it is about keeping the helmet in place...I would hope I could fudge a little in that realm? Gail I was told to check the fit by seeing if the helmet would slide off the head w/o the chin strap (it shouldn't) , or if the scalp moves with the helmet (it should). Hopefully someone who sells tack can elaborate... Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Child's saddle
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I have four up and coming grandchildren ranging from 2 to 5 years old. I need a saddle of some kind. Here is a Wintec leadline saddle I found on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Weatherbeeta-Wintec-Kids-Saddle/dp/B0007WBDE8/ref=pd_sb s_sg_1 ONce I saw an absolutely correct buckaroo saddle that I now wish I had bought. Anyone have any other recommendations. Or have one for sale. Gail Russell Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: helmets - trying to push them on people who don't use them.
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" HmmmI wonder what that instructor would say after being sued for the cost of caring for an invalid for the rest of their life. A contingency-only lawyer would love that set of facts. Someone on another list wrote to the Parellli organization and got the same story. That person was actually starting a letter writing campaign to the Parelli organization...but for now...what you got is the "Parelli line." A person on this list (who can pipe up if she wants to) started wearing a helmet after the day that she was riding in a Buck Branaman clinic. The horses were lined up at a standstill in front of Buck, and Buck was teaching how to get horses to cross over in front to move their front quarters. Buck had the end of the mecarte, and the rider had the reins (as I understand it). The horse got his legs tangled up and went down in the arena (think soft dust arena). The rider ended up with a concussion. So...you can get hurt with a broke horse, at a near standstill, on a soft arena, in a deep-seated western saddle, with an experience rider AND Buck Branaman on the end of the lead rope. Gail When I took a Parelli clinic here, the instructor ridiculed me for wearing a helmet, saying that Parelli teaches you and your horse to be safe and Parelli students don't fall offsomething like that. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re:Helmets
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" It really is worth it to try different helmets. I now have a Tipperary (not sure what kind). I had a Troxel before. I thought it fit, but it gave me nasty headaches. Not that you would really notice at first, but when you take it off, there is a huge relief. I find I forget I have the Tipperary on. The thing about those who do not wear helmets is that they are often people I love that I do not want to spend the rest of my life caring for as drooling idiots. I did that for my mother, but never, ever want to do that again! There is unavoidable resentment to caring for an ill person. Especially one that lives a long time in a brain damaged condition. Imagine having to care for that individual (with NO life of your own, and NO hope of improvement EVER) if they had been riding without a helmet after being told the dangers? The other kind of people who do not wear helmets are ones that people I love (including children) are watching, and learning by example from. If you are not going to wear a helmet, the most ethical way to do it is in complete privacy. And without loved ones. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: beach ride.
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi laura, You might try the leap frog trail exercise, where you take turns going ahead. It sounds like you are asking for more than she can give and still feel safe. I would take it back several notches until you get to where she is comfortable, and then, very slowly, ask for a tiny, baby step in the direction of where you are wanting to go. For example, let your husband's horse lead, then pass him just briefly and then, before she can object, turn her back to the place she feels comfortable. Watch carefully for signs of discomfort and do not push too fast. The danger is that you force her, she blows up, and then finds that blowing up works for her. There is a danger of creating major problems if you push her too hard, but baby, baby steps usually allows a horse to figure out that they are going to be OK. Personally, I would also get Alexandra Kurland's Riding with the clicker book. Gail Russell Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
OT - trying to reach Karen McCarthy at hotmail address/Karen Keith infected?
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi all, Is anyone else having messages sent to hotmail customers rejected because they supposedly look like spam or are coming from a known "rogue" ISP. My ISP is a small local one that I doubt has been taken over by spammers. I have tried to send a message to Karen at weeg...@hotmail.com and also to my son at a hotmail account. Also, Karen Keith's computer sent out some spam (or it was spoofed). I think her e-mail address is hotmail as well. I tried to notify her, but got the message back. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Horses rolling
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Yes..but...I was sitting on a big QH last week in a stream full of volcanic rocks and he was splashing like crazy...like he was going to go down. I could not understand why he would act like that if he did intend to go downbut it would not have been a good idea. --- Original Message --- >From: jerry friz[mailto:jf...@com-pair.net] This message is from: "jerry friz" Hi Gail, Not all shallow streams have big rocks in them.Most of the ones in Alaska, where I did hundreds of trails rides, had nice sandy bottoms. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: hang on
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I cannot figure out why a horse would want to go down in a shallow creek with rocks all over the streambed. Seems like they should know it would hurt their backs? Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Realities of digging a burial hole in advance
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Janet, of ja...@tamaracksheepfarm.com sent me the following explanation. She can read the list, but is unable to post. Her message clarified for me the real problem with trying to dig a hole in advance of winter. She also pointed out that she heard of a stallion who was kept indoors to help him get through the winter and who ended up pacing, weaving and colicking because he could not see his mares. Carol has said he was this type of stallion. See below Janet's post about digging the hole in advance of winter. Gail Russell one other thing not yet mentioned but this idea that one can just dig a hole in the northern climate and bury the animal later should it die in the winter just does not work. I run a sheep farm and have tried that approach. Everything is frozen hard, so you can't cover the hole back up until spring. You can only place it in the hole and at best cover it with wood shavings. Foxes, coyotes, crows, etc will scavange the carcass through the winter, and in the spring the hole fills up with melt water and you have a rotten soup contaminating the ground water long before the dirt pile thaws out enough to put back over the hole. Lets just say it is very sickening way to handle disposal of an animal you thought well of. I have gone to using funeral pyres and burning the body when we loose a dog in the winter, It takes a 'log cabin' of 6 foot by 6 foot by 8 foot high to burn a 100 pound dog thoroughly. Obviously this just is not feasible for a horse. If I had a 32 year old horse that seemed to be loosing his spirit (and thus his will to live), I'd put him down while I can still dig the hole. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I have "killed" two dogs. In both cases, I did it too late, after the animals were suffering (which I was only able to admit after the fact). I have also walked a colicking horse until she fell down and died. A beautiful, gorgeous, young Fjord mare. I have never seen another with as beautiful a trot, as beautiful a headshe was an Anvil's Acres horse and her breeder has also told me that she was just special. She had a twisted gut. We tried to get vet help, but we were in a very small rural area where emergency help was an hour away. We paid $400 to the vet to come out on a holiday weekend, twice. He was not a competent horse vet and was unable to tube her and really did no examination. We were given some drugs and left to our own devices in a vacation area we were visiting (LIKE NOVA SCOTIA!) We walked her all night in the freezing cold, on a gravel driveway. She was throwing herself down. I whipped her mercilessly to get her up, on the idea that rolling is not a good idea. We put a fly mask on her to keep her from scratching her eyes when she went down...in agony. In desperation we went to the farm family that was hosting us and asked for a gun and ammunition to shoot her if we felt we needed to. They complied, and showed us how to aim correctly so as not to miss her brain. We never did shoot her. Eventually, I now know, her gut broke,and the pain was relieved. At about 4 AM she put her head on my husband's arm and pulled him away from the other horses. He followed her with the lead. She headed toward an arena she had been in and dropped. Then she got up again and went down again and started her death throes. We had already called the incompetent vet again to try to get help. He arrived a few minutes after she died, so we had him do an autopsy. Big portions of her intestines were clearly dead. During the course of the ordeal, I called our home vet in desperation, he did not get enough information from me to tell me to just get her to a vet clinic...and besidesthe clinic was hours away. I e-mailed the Fjord list in the middle of the night, and got support from the early risers on the east coastand condolences from Karen McCarthy later on the west. I say all this because it is clear that Jen has absolutely no idea what can happen to a horse in a rural area. My horse died in agony. Gjest was at risk of that. On another list, one of the caring moderators just lost a horse to a twisted gut...the same way. No vet help could come fast enough to spare the horse. I am 62 years old and have seen a fair amount of death. I nursed my mother through 7 1/2 years of dementia, and then cared for her after she had a major disabling stroke. We gave her no food and water after the first days in the hospital(she could take neither by mouth...and they kicked her out of the hospital as soon as we said we did not want her intubated. ). We had to turn her every four hours to prevent bed sores, at which time she screamed in painI presume from the muscle contracture of the stroke. We did that every four hours for 13 days until she died. Once you have seen some of these things, you recognize that a "loss of spirit" is the beginning of the end, and it is time to take action to spare your loved one. In the case of my mother, I could not do it legally, and just did not have the courage anyway. But I can do it for a horse. Jen...when you have nursed a few people and animals through their deaths, come back and make your accusations again. Gail Russell I say: don't kill an animal now for the reason that euthenising it later may be a hardship on you. Enough. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Fijador
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi Karen, I thought a fijador was the knot you tied in the "reins" that are attached to the bosalwhich I would not confuse with a throat latch. Am I not getting it? (Jim is starting to use a bosal on some of his horses and would love to really know how to use it properly. Gail Glad you are taking the time to use the bosal, which I think for some folks is a misunderstood & under-rated bridle. I use it occasionally on my 'broke' horses as a refresher to tune on them but avoiding the mouth. I do prefer to use a fiajador though, which is sort of looks like a throatlatch, but is really a way to positively keep the balance on the nose in 'neutral' so a release is always a reward. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Foundered Fjord
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Or get magnesium by itself from Horsetech. Or get Remission, which is supposed to be cheaper than Quiessence. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Foundered Fjord
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" The place to go is the Equine Cushings list on Yahoo. They will want you to get blood work done, but, if you do not want to launch into that, I would look at their Emergency Diet (in their files area) and start supplementing as directed. If he is older, he may be Cushings. Is he sore footed right now? Gail Russell in Forestville Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Dunks?
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Just use feeder goldfish or mosquito fish. Gail Forestville Ca Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Memo to the President (horse-related/cute)
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Jean, There was no message. GAil Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: ANyone recognize how this harness works?
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Here it is...copied and pasted from my e-mail into tinyurl. http://tinyurl.com/mm5mjv Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Managing weight
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi Debbie and Ivar, I will intersperse your post with some suggestions. Ivar is a 5 yr. old gelding. He is 14.3 hh. For the first time, he has too much weight on him. He currently gets 1/2 scoop of oats twice a day with supplement and hay. Stop the oats right away. He does not need them. Find a balanced supplement that is designed for overweight horses. Nutrena makes one (and Nutrena sponsors many Fjord events, so it is worth supporting them.) Purina does as well. IF you up his exercise a bit, just doing that much might help. He is turned out 8 hours a day with 4 other horses in a medium sized rather sparse paddock. Cut down the turnout time if you can. Try to arrange for him to be turned out early in the morning, when the sugars in the grasses are at their lowest. Something like 4 AM to 9 AM would be ideal, but I doubt the barn is that accommodating. I wanted to solicit opinions from the group as to preference for muzzles vs. dry lot schedules. Muzzles are a pain, but I would prefer a horse get exercise with his buddies to keeping him on a dry lot. There is a funny kind of bucket muzzle that might help if the normal ones cannot be made to work. Finally, if you can buy him something like a "Nibble Net" and have his hay fed in that, that should help as well. If all that does not help, there are more things to be done...but these are the things to try. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Gooseneck Lock Recommendations?
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" OOps...that should have been private. And I certainly did not trim! Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Gooseneck Lock Recommendations?
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" HI Karen, How do you want me to pay? I can send you a check from my bank's bill pay. Once you get it cannot bounce (unless you hold it for three months, at which time the bank automatically stops the payment). Or I can use paypal if you like? It looks like it will be a good thing. I am assuming you do not have the actual locks that fit on the side? Do you need the special Blaylock locks, or will any padlock do? Gail --- Original Message --- >From: Karen Keith[mailto:kkke...@hotmail.com] Sent: 7/1/2009 7:00:06 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Gooseneck Lock Recommendations? This message is from: Karen Keith Hi Gail. I'm back from vacation and I hunted up the gooseneck lock. Here's a site that gives a good pic: http://www.towshop.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=516 and an Ebay sale with a pic of it locked on the coupler itself: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Blaylock-TL-50-EZ-Lock-Gooseneck-Trailer-Coupl er-Lock_W0QQitemZ190314386263QQcmdZViewItem I told you I'd let it go for $20 plus shipping. I've just checked the USPS flat rate boxes - it will fit in a medium - and that rate is either $9.85 or $10.35 (they give an online rate or I guess the other is going into the post office to do this). Either way, $30 will cover all if you are still interested. Just let me know. Cheers! Karen Keith > From: plumg...@pon.net > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: Gooseneck Lock Recommendations? > Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:54:47 -0700 > > This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" > > We impulse bought a 2 horse bumper pull trailer at the Sacramento Expo last > weekend. It is designed to go with our new (old...1995) Lance Camper and allow > us to visit Fjord friends and make pests of ourselves by bringing our horses > and camping out in their backyards. :) > > While talking with the Silverlite rep, we realized that our insurance is > unlikely to pay us adequately for our 1997 aluminum Silverlite trailer if we > should have it stolen or wrecked completely. We paid about $14500 for it. > THe rep said it is worth $28K, and the aluminum in it is pretty valuable as > well. Also, we store all of our tack in it. So...I decided we need to get a > gooseneck lock for it that works when it is off the truck and sitting in our > yard. > > Anyone have experience with gooseneck lock types? I want something that is > easy to apply, will not corrode, and works. It looks like the Guardian lock > is probably the best thing..so far. > > Gail > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f > > _ Looking for a new car this winter? Let us help with car news, reviews and more http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2E com%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai% 5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: OT-Ariat Iceberg Tall H20 riding boots
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Here are two people who like them. I would like to know if they fit a wide foot with a high instep. http://reviews.smartpakequine.com/7493/4911/reviews.htm --- Original Message --- >From: Debby[mailto:miss.am...@earthlink.net] Sent: 6/21/2009 11:33:58 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: OT-Ariat Iceberg Tall H20 riding boots This message is from: "Debby" I've found a place that has these marked down, halfprice, and wondered if anyone was riding or working around the barn in these and wnated some input, positive or negative. thanks all. Debby Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: My herd is complete
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Where did you get that pedestal? Is it aluminum? Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Eve foot injury
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Do you have any idea how she did it? If you have trouble at the end getting the skin to completely close, try Aluma Spray. We found it worked miracles at the point where it was time to take the bandage off (because the bandage caused too much friction and residual moisture). Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Gooseneck Lock Recommendations?
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Does it look like this one? http://www.guardianhitch.com/g56.htm I have a gooseneck lock that my friend sold me when she got out of horses. It is easy to use but I don't know where she got it. I can ask her. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Gooseneck Lock Recommendations?
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Correctiion...our old trailer would cost $28K to purchase new. He did say it would be worth more than we paid for it. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: dressage saddle
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" First off...apologies for not trimming last time. I have since discovered that OS in the Rembrandt OS stands for ONE SIZE. So..in theory, mine should fit you if it does not work out for the person who is trying it. However, it may not fit your horse, as it appears not to be the widest tree. Here is the one on ebay that sold quickly. It was the medium wide tree, probably like mine. I do not know how they can call it a 19 inch saddle, if they are one size. Mine measures 16...so I do not know what is up with that. http://completed.shop.ebay.com/items/__rembrandt-os?MA2ShowItems&_trksid=p328 6.c0.m283&_rdc=1&_fln=1&LH_Complete=1&guest=1 Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: dressage saddle
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi Laurie, I have a dressage saddle that you would love...except it would not fit you. If you can find a wide tree Rembrandt OS dressage saddle with the wide knee blocks, I believe you would absolutely love it. I do not believe the Rembrandt OS is still made. I found this link that says Classic Saddlery took over Rembrandt and is now making the adjustable tree saddles. I do not know if they are at all like the Rembrandt. (If you find a Rembrandt OS, I do not think it says "OS" on them, which complicates things...but the older saddles often have a different, heavier leather.) OOPS. I am having trouble with secure sites right now. All of them say THE SECURITY CERTIFICATE HAS EXPIRED AND OFFER TO OVERRIDE THE SECURITY. SO..I CANNOT GET INTO E-BAY TO SHOW YOU THE REMBRANDT OS. SEARCH ON COMPLETED LISTINGS AND YOU WILL FIND IT. Here is one that would probably fit you, but is probably not wide enough for OZ. NOtice that it went after 20 bids. I kept a search on eBay for quite a while before a Rembrandt OS turned up. (Mine would probably not sell as well because it is smaller...and it is currently being sent off to for a try-out, so it is not available for sale right now anyway.) http://www.draftresource.com/Draft_Saddles.html --- Original Message --- >From: crystal...@aol.com[mailto:crystal...@aol.com] Sent: 6/16/2009 6:31:14 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: dressage saddle This message is from: crystal...@aol.com i have been riding oz in a duett trail saddle as my english saddle. last night i had a lesson at another barn close to where i now live, and rode a school horse in a dressage saddle. the difference it made in my seat and posture was really quite amazing. so.i am looking now for a dressage saddle that might fit him. my trail saddle is a 34 - 19, i think. i am not locked into any particular brand, but if someone has one they are looking to sell i would be interested. then i would sell the trail one... or, if anyone has any suggestions about what they have found that works with their wide body ride. thanks laurie, and oz, who doesn't care what i put on him as long as we don't ride in itright now his feet seem to be ouchy again, so it's back to shoes for the summer ** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http: //www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=62&bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Wide Tree Black Rembrandt OS Dressage Saddle, 16"
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I am looking to sell a black Rembrandt OS Wide Tree Dressage Saddle. By my measurement, it is a 16 inch. Fits me quite well at 5 foot 3, 135 pounds. This one is in excellent condition. I have another one just like it that is much more worn. Since I have no plans to compete at dressage, I thought it would be a good idea to sell this one instead of the worn one Everyone who has ever ridden in this saddle absolutely loves the comfort of it. It has fairly thick knee blocks/rolls and it just snugs you down into itself. One like it, only bigger sold with 20 bids at $745. I would like $500 dollars (which is what I paid for it) plus actual cost of shipping, which I would estimate to be about $55 or $60 dollars. I can get pics, but for now, here is the link to the one that sold. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290320890756&ssPageName=AD ME:B:WNA:US:1123 This is not the adjustable saddle. It is older, with nice leather. Has space for the horse's shoulders to move into. Jean Ernest, a.k.a. Saddle Addict, turned me on to these saddles. I think she still has hers. Gail Russell Forestville CA Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Vet Manners Thank You
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" With clicker trainingalways break things down into teensy, teensy steps ...and endeavor NEVER to get a flinch or scared look as you "up the anty" each time. Take it really slow. Usually, things go fast with clicker training anyway, so it probably is not going to be a problem...but just in case...be really careful to go slow. Also, know that having the now-feared vet do it may be harder than your stranger neighbor. If you need to, it might pay to show the vet that the neighbor can do it now..by using the clicker. Sounds like you are on the right track. The clicker is ideal for these situations. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Anybody out there a pacemaker genius....NOT OT
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Robin, All, It helps a lot to know that heart rate does go up when someone rides a horse. All the documentation on this front I can find is helpful. I see what you mean about managing the doctor. I just feel like I need to find information for them so they will not just dismiss something out of hand, and then find themselves committed to that path. We are, of course, in managed care, where we are only given a few shots at actually seeing a doctor. If I had known about this problem, we could have asked for a different pacemaker. The doctor was told Jim rode horses, but I guess he did not understand how huge a part of his life it is. That, and riding on bumpy roads. And using a chainsaw, and lifting pipe panels. They are used to putting in pacemakers on 80 year olds, not younger folks. They are also accustomed to dealing with people who want to run or bicycle.but not people who have so many activities that are suddenly stated as off limits. (I just realized this morning that the 3 horsepower motor in Jim's new BlendTec blender (that he loves) is probably a no, no...but a doctor would not think that a mere blender would have all that power.) I did get some information from the pacemaker tech support, but not specific to this. The 1990 article I found may be helpful in that it lays out a testing protocol that involved the pacemaker programmer actually coming to the patient's ranch and supervising a test while he rode his horse at three different gaits. I am going to take that article innot as the final statementbut as an example of how things might be done. I am pretty sure that we could set up some kind of Holter monitor test on someone riding a horse that would show the heart rate does go up naturally. Anyway.every little bit helps. And we will find another doctor if we need to. The good news is that the one who is being so conservative now is the one who implanted the pacemaker...and did not manage to kill Jim in the process. In that context, I appreciate his conservatism. And, the other good news is that he is not the one who is the expert on programming the pacemakers, so I have hope that the guy who is can do this. If nothing else, I hope I can pique the interest of the programmer in finding a solution to a unique problem. Robin...again...your input is likely to help deal with a preconception that riding a horse is a sedentary activity. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Anybody out there a pacemaker genius....NOT OT
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I bought a 1990 article from Wiley that indicates someone was able to ride at a walk trot canter. If there really is a pacemaker genius on the Fjord list, I can forward the article. It was clearly a different type of pacemaker. The term should be something like "chronotropic incompetence" I think. Gail Right now, Jim's heart will naturally go up a bit with exercise on its own, but that may ultimately not be the case. They put this pacer in because it looked like he was sliding toward chronic ventricular incompetence. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: gone beyond the grazing muzzle
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi Valerie, Join this group. They will do everything they can to help you. ech...@yahoogroups.com It may also pay to ask there where to join to get info on supplements...things to do to help. I feel so bad that this happened. These people can often help. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
OOPs...and article
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" My Internet Explorer does not tell me when something is SENT. It looks like it has not gone out...so I kept resending. Big apologies. Here is info on his pacemaker. http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:-57_tT0h1BsJ:www.cardion.cz/Data/files/S pecSheets/PM/EN_ZephyrXLDR_spcsh%255B1%255D.pdf+dddr+pacemaker+zephyr&cd=2&hl =en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a I did find a Wiley Science series article on DDDR pacemakers and horseback riding, but have not figured out how to download. (And I don't think it will let me print the article!) http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/1701889/The_effects_of_equitation_h orseback_riding_on_a_motion_responsive_DDDR_pacemaker This article appears to contradict the doctor, but I am not certain it involved a pacemaker like the one Jim has. I believe his IS the DDDR type. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Anybody out there a pacemaker genius....NOT OT
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi all, Well, Jim just got a pacemaker for bradycardia. (Slow heart rate). The good news is that his skin color is about four shades pinker (red, really). He appears to be getting a LOT more oxygen to his tissues. Even his demeanor and personality are pretty clearly different (improved...I think...but wait for the final report after I live with him for a while.) The bad news is that the cardiologist (who had been told that we ride horses) informed him AFTERWARDS that he can never again ride a horse! It has to do with the step-up pacing that is delivered during walking or running that is built into this pacemaker. Turns out that the pacemaker (A Zephyr XL DR 5826 made by St Jude Medical)has an accelerometer sensor that picks up up and down movement when you walk and jog, and increases the pacing during that time. THis is fine when you are walking or running, because the heart needs to speed up (to 120 beats per minute as set right now)because you need more oxygen to your tissues. The problem is that, even on a walking horse, the doctor believes he will not be using enough oxygen via exertion to compensate for the increase in pacing induced by the up and down motion of a horse. I suppose each foot fall of the horse might be seen as on human step by the pacemaker. (Jim's heart problem was a Type I Mobitz (Wenckebach) Second Degree Atrial Ventricle block. HOwever, his resting heart rate had gotten routinely to be as low as 34, with it going up to 45 beats after we took the dog for a long walk (and when he was definitely breathing faster). That was more or less OK, but the doctor did not like that his treadmill test showed he could not get his heart rate above 109 beats of minute on a treadmill..even though he was clearly getting winded. This condition has obviously been progressing. The list may remember when he and I got trapped in a Vienna hospital with them wanting to put in a pacemaker, and me scanning the Internet, posting SOS's to the FJord list (one of the view e-mail addresses I could remember) and reading cardiology stuff on the Web so we could feel safe signing him out against medical advice. At that time, his resting rate was 45 beats a minute, and he could get his heart rate to a least 117 beats per minute.) The good news is that the guy who will program his pacemaker in 3 months said, "oh, we'll get you back on a horse" ...so at least he thinks it is possible, though I suspect they will have to downgrade the sensitivity of the sensors to the point where his heart may not accelerate enough when he IS walking. And the guy was young, so I am not positive he knows what he is talking about. Part of the reason I asked for help is that I want to set things up so the person who programs the pacemaker has the best possible information. We have a POlar heart rate monitor that will allow us to create a graph of heart activity on a computer. If I can superimpose that over a schedule of MY riding Jim's horse at the walk, that should give some idea of how much riding a horse at a walk actually DOES naturally raise a heart rate. (I suspect that it takes much more energy than the doctor thinks...especially if you focus on not slouching...or riding as I understand one is supposed to...where you are sort of "walking" in the stirrups.) After Jim is allowed to do things, we can also put HIM on a horse at a walk for a short period and see what his heart rate really goes up to with the pacemaker set as it is. Currently the pacemaker is doing ALL the work, and beating at 52 beats a minute...something like that. Right now, Jim's heart will naturally go up a bit with exercise on its own, but that may ultimately not be the case. They put this pacer in because it looked like he was sliding toward chronic ventricular incompetence. Our hospital does not have one of those telemetry systems for setting pacemakers (apparently the old phone ones are not being used, and they have not converted to the computer ones). So..Suggestions appreciated. Ways to give the docs the best background info (are my ideas above worthwhile)? Ways to manage the docs? What is possible? If necessary (and possible), we might pay extra so he can have his pacemaker custom set on a regular basis...as inwe are going hiking to eleven thousand feet...so up the accelerometer sensitivity...or...we are going riding lots, so slow things down. If we had been told, we would have had a different pacemaker put in. We are not too happy about this. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Anybody out there a pacemaker genius....NOT OT
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi all, Well, Jim just got a pacemaker for bradycardia. (Slow heart rate). The good news is that his skin color is about four shades pinker (red, really). He appears to be getting a LOT more oxygen to his tissues. Even his demeanor and personality are pretty clearly different (improved...I think...but wait for the final report after I live with him for a while.) The bad news is that the cardiologist (who had been told that we ride horses) informed him AFTERWARDS that he can never again ride a horse! It has to do with the step-up pacing that is delivered during walking or running that is built into this pacemaker. Turns out that the pacemaker (A Zephyr XL DR 5826 made by St Jude Medical)has an accelerometer sensor that picks up up and down movement when you walk and jog, and increases the pacing during that time. THis is fine when you are walking or running, because the heart needs to speed up (to 120 beats per minute as set right now)because you need more oxygen to your tissues. The problem is that, even on a walking horse, the doctor believes he will not be using enough oxygen via exertion to compensate for the increase in pacing induced by the up and down motion of a horse. I suppose each foot fall of the horse might be seen as on human step by the pacemaker. (Jim's heart problem was a Type I Mobitz (Wenckebach) Second Degree Atrial Ventricle block. HOwever, his resting heart rate had gotten routinely to be as low as 34, with it going up to 45 beats after we took the dog for a long walk (and when he was definitely breathing faster). That was more or less OK, but the doctor did not like that his treadmill test showed he could not get his heart rate above 109 beats of minute on a treadmill..even though he was clearly getting winded. This condition has obviously been progressing. The list may remember when he and I got trapped in a Vienna hospital with them wanting to put in a pacemaker, and me scanning the Internet, posting SOS's to the FJord list (one of the view e-mail addresses I could remember) and reading cardiology stuff on the Web so we could feel safe signing him out against medical advice. At that time, his resting rate was 45 beats a minute, and he could get his heart rate to a least 117 beats per minute.) The good news is that the guy who will program his pacemaker in 3 months said, "oh, we'll get you back on a horse" ...so at least he thinks it is possible, though I suspect they will have to downgrade the sensitivity of the sensors to the point where his heart may not accelerate enough when he IS walking. And the guy was young, so I am not positive he knows what he is talking about. Part of the reason I asked for help is that I want to set things up so the person who programs the pacemaker has the best possible information. We have a POlar heart rate monitor that will allow us to create a graph of heart activity on a computer. If I can superimpose that over a schedule of MY riding Jim's horse at the walk, that should give some idea of how much riding a horse at a walk actually DOES naturally raise a heart rate. (I suspect that it takes much more energy than the doctor thinks...especially if you focus on not slouching...or riding as I understand one is supposed to...where you are sort of "walking" in the stirrups.) After Jim is allowed to do things, we can also put HIM on a horse at a walk for a short period and see what his heart rate really goes up to with the pacemaker set as it is. Currently the pacemaker is doing ALL the work, and beating at 52 beats a minute...something like that. Right now, Jim's heart will naturally go up a bit with exercise on its own, but that may ultimately not be the case. They put this pacer in because it looked like he was sliding toward chronic ventricular incompetence. Our hospital does not have one of those telemetry systems for setting pacemakers (apparently the old phone ones are not being used, and they have not converted to the computer ones). So..Suggestions appreciated. Ways to give the docs the best background info (are my ideas above worthwhile)? Ways to manage the docs? What is possible? If necessary (and possible), we might pay extra so he can have his pacemaker custom set on a regular basis...as inwe are going hiking to eleven thousand feet...so up the accelerometer sensitivity...or...we are going riding lots, so slow things down. If we had been told, we would have had a different pacemaker put in. We are not too happy about this. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Anybody out there a pacemaker genius....NOT OT
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi all, Well, Jim just got a pacemaker for bradycardia. (Slow heart rate). The good news is that his skin color is about four shades pinker (red, really). He appears to be getting a LOT more oxygen to his tissues. Even his demeanor and personality are pretty clearly different (improved...I think...but wait for the final report after I live with him for a while.) The bad news is that the cardiologist (who had been told that we ride horses) informed him AFTERWARDS that he can never again ride a horse! It has to do with the step-up pacing that is delivered during walking or running that is built into this pacemaker. Turns out that the pacemaker (A Zephyr XL DR 5826 made by St Jude Medical)has an accelerometer sensor that picks up up and down movement when you walk and jog, and increases the pacing during that time. THis is fine when you are walking or running, because the heart needs to speed up (to 120 beats per minute as set right now)because you need more oxygen to your tissues. The problem is that, even on a walking horse, the doctor believes he will not be using enough oxygen via exertion to compensate for the increase in pacing induced by the up and down motion of a horse. I suppose each foot fall of the horse might be seen as on human step by the pacemaker. (Jim's heart problem was a Type I Mobitz (Wenckebach) Second Degree Atrial Ventricle block. HOwever, his resting heart rate had gotten routinely to be as low as 34, with it going up to 45 beats after we took the dog for a long walk (and when he was definitely breathing faster). That was more or less OK, but the doctor did not like that his treadmill test showed he could not get his heart rate above 109 beats of minute on a treadmill..even though he was clearly getting winded. This condition has obviously been progressing. The list may remember when he and I got trapped in a Vienna hospital with them wanting to put in a pacemaker, and me scanning the Internet, posting SOS's to the FJord list (one of the view e-mail addresses I could remember) and reading cardiology stuff on the Web so we could feel safe signing him out against medical advice. At that time, his resting rate was 45 beats a minute, and he could get his heart rate to a least 117 beats per minute.) The good news is that the guy who will program his pacemaker in 3 months said, "oh, we'll get you back on a horse" ...so at least he thinks it is possible, though I suspect they will have to downgrade the sensitivity of the sensors to the point where his heart may not accelerate enough when he IS walking. And the guy was young, so I am not positive he knows what he is talking about. Part of the reason I asked for help is that I want to set things up so the person who programs the pacemaker has the best possible information. We have a POlar heart rate monitor that will allow us to create a graph of heart activity on a computer. If I can superimpose that over a schedule of MY riding Jim's horse at the walk, that should give some idea of how much riding a horse at a walk actually DOES naturally raise a heart rate. (I suspect that it takes much more energy than the doctor thinks...especially if you focus on not slouching...or riding as I understand one is supposed to...where you are sort of "walking" in the stirrups.) After Jim is allowed to do things, we can also put HIM on a horse at a walk for a short period and see what his heart rate really goes up to with the pacemaker set as it is. Currently the pacemaker is doing ALL the work, and beating at 52 beats a minute...something like that. Right now, Jim's heart will naturally go up a bit with exercise on its own, but that may ultimately not be the case. They put this pacer in because it looked like he was sliding toward chronic ventricular incompetence. Our hospital does not have one of those telemetry systems for setting pacemakers (apparently the old phone ones are not being used, and they have not converted to the computer ones). So..Suggestions appreciated. Ways to give the docs the best background info (are my ideas above worthwhile)? Ways to manage the docs? What is possible? If necessary (and possible), we might pay extra so he can have his pacemaker custom set on a regular basis...as inwe are going hiking to eleven thousand feet...so up the accelerometer sensitivity...or...we are going riding lots, so slow things down. If we had been told, we would have had a different pacemaker put in. We are not too happy about this. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Anybody out there a pacemaker genius....NOT OT
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi all, Well, Jim just got a pacemaker for bradycardia. (Slow heart rate). The good news is that his skin color is about four shades pinker (red, really). He appears to be getting a LOT more oxygen to his tissues. Even his demeanor and personality are pretty clearly different (improved...I think...but wait for the final report after I live with him for a while.) The bad news is that the cardiologist (who had been told that we ride horses) informed him AFTERWARDS that he can never again ride a horse! It has to do with the step-up pacing that is delivered during walking or running that is built into this pacemaker. Turns out that the pacemaker (A Zephyr XL DR 5826 made by St Jude Medical)has an accelerometer sensor that picks up up and down movement when you walk and jog, and increases the pacing during that time. THis is fine when you are walking or running, because the heart needs to speed up (to 120 beats per minute as set right now)because you need more oxygen to your tissues. The problem is that, even on a walking horse, the doctor believes he will not be using enough oxygen via exertion to compensate for the increase in pacing induced by the up and down motion of a horse. I suppose each foot fall of the horse might be seen as on human step by the pacemaker. (Jim's heart problem was a Type I Mobitz (Wenckebach) Second Degree Atrial Ventricle block. HOwever, his resting heart rate had gotten routinely to be as low as 34, with it going up to 45 beats after we took the dog for a long walk (and when he was definitely breathing faster). That was more or less OK, but the doctor did not like that his treadmill test showed he could not get his heart rate above 109 beats of minute on a treadmill..even though he was clearly getting winded. This condition has obviously been progressing. The list may remember when he and I got trapped in a Vienna hospital with them wanting to put in a pacemaker, and me scanning the Internet, posting SOS's to the FJord list (one of the view e-mail addresses I could remember) and reading cardiology stuff on the Web so we could feel safe signing him out against medical advice. At that time, his resting rate was 45 beats a minute, and he could get his heart rate to a least 117 beats per minute.) The good news is that the guy who will program his pacemaker in 3 months said, "oh, we'll get you back on a horse" ...so at least he thinks it is possible, though I suspect they will have to downgrade the sensitivity of the sensors to the point where his heart may not accelerate enough when he IS walking. And the guy was young, so I am not positive he knows what he is talking about. Part of the reason I asked for help is that I want to set things up so the person who programs the pacemaker has the best possible information. We have a POlar heart rate monitor that will allow us to create a graph of heart activity on a computer. If I can superimpose that over a schedule of MY riding Jim's horse at the walk, that should give some idea of how much riding a horse at a walk actually DOES naturally raise a heart rate. (I suspect that it takes much more energy than the doctor thinks...especially if you focus on not slouching...or riding as I understand one is supposed to...where you are sort of "walking" in the stirrups.) After Jim is allowed to do things, we can also put HIM on a horse at a walk for a short period and see what his heart rate really goes up to with the pacemaker set as it is. Currently the pacemaker is doing ALL the work, and beating at 52 beats a minute...something like that. Right now, Jim's heart will naturally go up a bit with exercise on its own, but that may ultimately not be the case. They put this pacer in because it looked like he was sliding toward chronic ventricular incompetence. Our hospital does not have one of those telemetry systems for setting pacemakers (apparently the old phone ones are not being used, and they have not converted to the computer ones). So..Suggestions appreciated. Ways to give the docs the best background info (are my ideas above worthwhile)? Ways to manage the docs? What is possible? If necessary (and possible), we might pay extra so he can have his pacemaker custom set on a regular basis...as inwe are going hiking to eleven thousand feet...so up the accelerometer sensitivity...or...we are going riding lots, so slow things down. If we had been told, we would have had a different pacemaker put in. We are not too happy about this. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Anybody out there a pacemaker genius....NOT OT
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Hi all, Well, Jim just got a pacemaker for bradycardia. (Slow heart rate). The good news is that his skin color is about four shades pinker (red, really). He appears to be getting a LOT more oxygen to his tissues. Even his demeanor and personality are pretty clearly different (improved...I think...but wait for the final report after I live with him for a while.) The bad news is that the cardiologist (who had been told that we ride horses) informed him AFTERWARDS that he can never again ride a horse! It has to do with the step-up pacing that is delivered during walking or running that is built into this pacemaker. Turns out that the pacemaker (A Zephyr XL DR 5826 made by St Jude Medical)has an accelerometer sensor that picks up up and down movement when you walk and jog, and increases the pacing during that time. THis is fine when you are walking or running, because the heart needs to speed up (to 120 beats per minute as set right now)because you need more oxygen to your tissues. The problem is that, even on a walking horse, the doctor believes he will not be using enough oxygen via exertion to compensate for the increase in pacing induced by the up and down motion of a horse. I suppose each foot fall of the horse might be seen as on human step by the pacemaker. (Jim's heart problem was a Type I Mobitz (Wenckebach) Second Degree Atrial Ventricle block. HOwever, his resting heart rate had gotten routinely to be as low as 34, with it going up to 45 beats after we took the dog for a long walk (and when he was definitely breathing faster). That was more or less OK, but the doctor did not like that his treadmill test showed he could not get his heart rate above 109 beats of minute on a treadmill..even though he was clearly getting winded. This condition has obviously been progressing. The list may remember when he and I got trapped in a Vienna hospital with them wanting to put in a pacemaker, and me scanning the Internet, posting SOS's to the FJord list (one of the view e-mail addresses I could remember) and reading cardiology stuff on the Web so we could feel safe signing him out against medical advice. At that time, his resting rate was 45 beats a minute, and he could get his heart rate to a least 117 beats per minute.) The good news is that the guy who will program his pacemaker in 3 months said, "oh, we'll get you back on a horse" ...so at least he thinks it is possible, though I suspect they will have to downgrade the sensitivity of the sensors to the point where his heart may not accelerate enough when he IS walking. And the guy was young, so I am not positive he knows what he is talking about. Part of the reason I asked for help is that I want to set things up so the person who programs the pacemaker has the best possible information. We have a POlar heart rate monitor that will allow us to create a graph of heart activity on a computer. If I can superimpose that over a schedule of MY riding Jim's horse at the walk, that should give some idea of how much riding a horse at a walk actually DOES naturally raise a heart rate. (I suspect that it takes much more energy than the doctor thinks...especially if you focus on not slouching...or riding as I understand one is supposed to...where you are sort of "walking" in the stirrups.) After Jim is allowed to do things, we can also put HIM on a horse at a walk for a short period and see what his heart rate really goes up to with the pacemaker set as it is. Currently the pacemaker is doing ALL the work, and beating at 52 beats a minute...something like that. Right now, Jim's heart will naturally go up a bit with exercise on its own, but that may ultimately not be the case. They put this pacer in because it looked like he was sliding toward chronic ventricular incompetence. Our hospital does not have one of those telemetry systems for setting pacemakers (apparently the old phone ones are not being used, and they have not converted to the computer ones). So..Suggestions appreciated. Ways to give the docs the best background info (are my ideas above worthwhile)? Ways to manage the docs? What is possible? If necessary (and possible), we might pay extra so he can have his pacemaker custom set on a regular basis...as inwe are going hiking to eleven thousand feet...so up the accelerometer sensitivity...or...we are going riding lots, so slow things down. If we had been told, we would have had a different pacemaker put in. We are not too happy about this. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
OT: Very well bred QH mare in N. California in trouble
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" HI all, I will try to be brief, but it is a long sad story. A friend of a close friend who runs a boarding barn across the street from our home (and who takes care of our horses when we are away) bought a well bred, well trained sorrel, with blaze QH QH mare. Her breeding is Big League Player (sire) and out of a Sonny Dee Bar Mare (I think it is Trows Sonny Gold,l but am doing this without looking at her pedigree.) The horse's owner bought her out of what I am told is a reputable barn in Georga for a very big price and had her shipped across the country. While she was being shipped, there was a terrible ice storm. The shipper stopped and offloaded her for two weeks in Texas...possibly in a place where there was ice. After she arrived her new owner rode her and she began bucking like crazy. The new owner is an experienced and good rider and she managed to get off safely during a lull in the bucking. This horse was showed in the east by a 9 year old rider, and won. She was trained for western ploeasure and had some reining training. On some occasions she has been ridden OK and she clearly shows her training. To my eyes, she is clearly a very finely bred QH, and is gorgeous to watch move. The new owner tried various things with her, but she bucked. So my friend recommended she go to a small training barn/cattle ranch to be ridden out in the hills. By this time I think she had had some body work and they figured she needed to be ridden in the steep hills where bucking is basically impossible...the horse just keeps going forward. Unbeknownst to my friend the trainer at this barn was separated from his wife and the person training the horse was his wife. Sometime later they got a call to pick her up. It is not clear what happened, but we think she had her nose tied to her tail, panicked and went down. She ended up with a stifle injury, and a small piece of the tip of her tail cut off. A year later I think her stifle may be OK, but she still bucks. The husband who was separated from his wife was persuaded to take her (at no charge...free lease) , with the idea of breeding her to a very fine QH stallion that would fit well with her. The husband was also going to pay for body work for her and try to get her in shape to be ridden and sold. This week the husband called and said he had a report from the chiropractor to say that she needed $3000 worth of work, and the whole thing was just too much for him. My friend will get the chiropractor's report. In the meantime, the owner's husband had to retire early due to illness and she also lost access to a free boarding site (she still had to provide food and care). She has no money to take care of this horse. In fact, she really has no money to even pay to put her down...which has been one of the options considered. My friend has no room at her boarding barn, and I have no room...and a husband who is not happy with the number of horses we have already. This mare is a sort of liver sorrel, with long, long mane and tail and a blaze. When she holds her tail a certain way, you can see that she is missing the hair that should be on the tip of her tail, so the effect of her long tail is somewhat spoiled, though she could certainly wear a fall of some kind, I suppose. On the ground she is quite sweet, though certainly not the really calm Fjord temperament. We have not started calling rescues yet, but the N California rescues are sufficiently overflowing that they are running subsidized euthanasia clinics. If anyone knows of a good option for her, please let me know privately. She is currently 9 years old. She has never been bred. Right now she is still with the trainer, but that will have to change fairly soon. Gail --- Original Message --- >From: Steve Sessoms[mailto:ssess...@charter.net] Sent: 5/3/2009 6:14:34 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Fjord at clinic photos This message is from: "Steve Sessoms" Who is the lovely Fjordie in the Carol Walker photos from the Piaffe and Passage with Manuel Trigo in Franktown CO in 2008? Is it Obie? Hope the link works. http://www.livingimagescjw.com/CLIENTS/08PiaffePassage/08PiaffePassage-1.htm Meredith Sessoms Moulton AL Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: grazing muzzles
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" They recommend you feed them treats through the muzzle hole by hand. You could try that. (I know..all the treats have too much sugar. Something like a Cheerio is at least small. Or, even better, feed her hay through the hole, so she gets the idea of picking up hay/grasslike stuff. People sometimes use a neck collar to keep them from taking the halter off. You may want to do that at first so she does not discover she can get the muzzle off! Regarding treats, I recently made up a batch of treats that are fairly low carb. Oats, chia seeds, and a few raisins. Cook, then put in TINY blobs on a cookie sheet and dehydrate at low temp, like cooking biscotti. One treat goes down really fast, you can break the bigger ones apart, the chia is high protein (and adds stickiness so you do not have to use flour), and with mine, the horses get about one raisin per treat. Also, they are not sticky. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: snake oil
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" You laugh...but have you ever actually lOOked at some of the clinicians? I think their success is often related to something other than their skill with horses. Gail you needed to jump on that snake ( with no bridle of course ) ride him bareback into a stock trailer, grabbing the top and swinging off just as he leaps in ( slithers ? ) commanding wild applause from the crowd. Only THEN, do you whip off your shirt ( gulp ) throwing it to the bleachers, causeing a mild riot Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Guineas ...
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Can you spin or otherwise use their coats? Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Trimming Posts
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I had not thought of this before, but if I set Outlook to delete the whole previous message when I can reply, I can then copy any part of the previous message I want to preserve, and then hit Reply, and then paste the saved portion of the previous message into the new one. That solves the trigger finger problem (which I have been guilty of more than once.) But it still allows for creating continuity in your message. The only thing it does not do is mark the old message with those little arrows. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: From the List Admin: READ THIS (or else)
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" What e-mail program do you use? Basically, you hit reply, then go in and delete the text from the old message before you write your own. I think it is best form to put your message above any text you leave from the old message. The only reason to leave any text from the old message is for clarification purposes...to indicate what you are responding to and making it a comprehensible "thread." Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: From the List Admin: READ THIS (or else)
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Not to mention the fact that replying to the digest and not trimming means duplicating every single post in that digest...including the ones that were already not trimmed. There must be some kind of exponential duplication that happens when people reply to the digest without trimming. Gail The majority of people here are subscribed to the Digest format, and scrolling past replies which contain full quotations is beyond frustrating. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: From the List Admin: READ THIS (or else)
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" One thing that might help is to have folks try subscribing to the digest for a while. When they do, they will realize how it makes the list almost impossible to read if people do not trim posts. I had to give up on digests because the tendon in my "mouse arm" was in bad shape...making my frozen shoulder problems much, much worse. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Off Topic
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" HOrse slaughter discussion...or the wandering to vegetarian topics? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Plans for animals after death
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" In California it is now possible to leave a trust fund for an animal. Not all states allow it. Before one had to leave the funds to an individual and hope they did not just ditch the animal. I am not certain how well that is working out. The law is fairly new. I know from experience that people go a little crazy after the death of a loved one...and it does not always work out well. Gail One thing I need to do soon is to make plans for any of my surviving animals in my will...maybe that's a topic we could cover on this list. My husband wants to "go first" because he says he can't take care of my critters if I "go first"! Just what are our options since at the present, my adult daughters who love & ride horses simply can't afford to board. It's something to seriously consider Enough said... Sandra & Loki Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Trimming your Replies
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Steve, your message ended up in my spam filterso maybe it went to others' as well. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Aggressive Horses/Behavioral Conference in Texas
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" The people who clicker train may just be a bit quieter about it, but I think it is growing rather than diminishing. Anyone can inadvertently shape an undesirable behavior. In fact, it is probably easier to do it by the "normal" or even "natural horsemanship" training. ONe of the downsides of the clicker is that the horses are so enthusiastic and excited about the control it gives them that they can get a little exuberant. TRaining a horse to pick up its feet with the clicker can go temporarily amuck if the horse gets obsessed with the picking up part but has not yet learned the "hold it in my hand" part. The clicker requires a good eye and good reactions clicking with tongue or clicker. Ordinary horsemanship requires physical skills with rope handling and body movement. Those skills help with clicker training, but they are not as essential. All you really have to do is learn to break the behavior down into tiny steps and then learn to carefully observe what is happening. The correction based training does work, after a fashion, but there are horses that do not adapt well to it, and it does not produce as clear an understanding nor the same enthusiasm. I had a horse that had problems cantering. He was afraid to canter. With a little clicker work, he was absolutely dying to canter. If I had "tapped" him forward into the canter, he would not have had control of the situation that would allow him to overcome his fear as well as the clicker. Correction based training does work, and it can work faster than the clicker for some things, but it has downsides, as was evident in the video I saw. Regarding the "horse will mug you for treats" objectionI do not have time to go into it right now (farrier is here...and I have to go lecture him to roll the toes and not to touch the toe calluscorrection based training, unfortunately, sigh).but please take my word for it that it is not a problem. All you do is teach polite treat taking and non-mugging behavior. It is pretty simple, even with the problem horses. I have made mistakes with the clicker. Mostly due to not training an opposite behavior to control the enthusiasm. One way to try out the clicker would be to take a Chicken Training class. They are also prey animals, so that dispenses with that "objection" to clicker training...as in...unlike with dogs which are predators, it will not work with horses, which are prey animals. You can also buy a goldfish and practice on it if you want to. Have to run. Gail Russell] Forestville CA --- Original Message --- >From: ruth bushnell[mailto:fjo...@frontiernet.net] Sent: 4/2/2009 9:20:35 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Re: Aggressive Horses/Behavioral Conference in Texas This message is from: "ruth bushnell" > This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" > > You all may remember that I was going to a behavior > training conference at the University of North Texas > last month which featured, among other speakers, > Alexandra Kurland who does clicker training in horses. > Gail IT SEEMED that clicker training was more popular when it first made news in the horse world, quite some time back, though I realize there are some of you who do it still and swear by it... and it is especially popular in the dog world. I am wondering, regards horses, if anyone has heard of any kind of downside to the practice? Or maybe saw a resource along that line? Perhaps inadvertently shaping undesirable behavior, or..? Ruthie, nw mt US Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Carrots, onion, bay leaf ,S+P
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" When we lived on Salt Spring Island in British Columbia our mailman was close to 90 before he quit delivering mail. He had delivered mail with a horse and buggy. I asked him (knowing pretty much what the answer would be) what he did with a horse when he retired it. The land there was sandy/gravelly acidic soil that really should have been left as rainforest. It was hard to grow much, and putting up hay (just like in Norway) was a "b..." because it ALWAYS rained on the hay. No one had the wherewithal to keep livestock that was not useful. When I left Salt Spring Island I had a 12 year old Jersey cow that I had milked for ten years. It was not easy, but we led her three miles down the road (as we had done with all of her babies as well) and took her to the butcher. There is no doubt in my mind that the Norwegians ate unneeded horses as well before North Sea oil came along as it was quite a poor country before then. In a way, we are moving back in that direction due to economic and ecological factors. I just like to think that we will still do whatever we can to make the horses comfortable and happy while they are alive, including the time right before their death. Gary Snyder, the poet, told us the following story at a conference in farm country last summer when high oil prices were looking like they would drive the cattle ranchers out of business because it had become so expensive to fertilize, irrigate, cut and bale hay. He pointed out that people came along and found the pyramids and wondered how they could possibly have been built, until they realized that they were built with thousands upon thousands of slaves. When the slave economy disappeared, they were no longer built. He pointed out that when we learned how to exploit fossil fuels, we essentially also had (and still have) the work equivalent of thousands upon thousands of slaves. When those slaves leave us, for whatever reason (war, depletion, recession in which we do not have the funds to pay for them), we are going to have to make some tough choices. I currently have several elderly horses that cannot earn their keep. I have no intention of euthanizing them or selling them on, but sometimes the expense of taking care of them is pretty taxing financially. However, if I did not have my little "oil slaves" I probably would euthanize or eat them. When we lived in BC we mowed a big field one year with a single horse mower pulled behind an old 8N tractor. We raked it with a horse drawn dump rake pulled behind the tractor. We were able to, sort of, windrow the hay with the dump rake. I then went out and hand stooked (sp) it with a pitchfork and then hand piled it onto a little 4 x 8 trailer. WE hauled it home and used an old style set of hay-pickup forks to put it up into the hay mow. I can tell you right now that, if I had to do that again in order to feed meat animals and to feed my horses, I would soon figure out a humane way to slaughter and eat our excess horses. Gail --- Original Message --- >From: pedfjo...@aol.com[mailto:pedfjo...@aol.com] Sent: 4/2/2009 12:58:41 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Carrots, onion, bay leaf ,S+P This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com * recipe for chicken soup ?; ) Sorry, couldnt resist that one, BUT, Glad this topic is continuing about horses needing help when headed to either slaughter, or the Rainbow Bridge if thats where your brain likes to draw the line. Good, stimulating comments from all " sides " and keep in mind that we are all actually on ONE side of this topic, being horse lovers. There are different ways and reasons to sink the same boat, but its sinking right now, so keeping dialog open for everyone is a good deal. One little thing. Jen, while I agree with alot of your feelings and some of your post.it is not true that people here in the US do not eat horse meat. Well, they DID in recent history. My mom is in her young 80's and remembers very well that for several years, during World War 11, thats all the meat they could get. Most Americans during that recent time did not raise horse's to eat, but did obtain it at the butcher shops when they had enough food ration stamps for things like sugar, milk and meat. In Europe with the mad cow disease, it only made the horse meat market gain alot of favor with the UK and others not being able to obtain beef for awhile. ( not sure about it now ) In times of depression and war, horses are eaten. Even here. In recent history. The impression of people avoiding horse meat because of its " special place in developing the nation " is simply not true. In factwhen armys marched through N. Europe, they confiscated and ate all of the horses they didnt need to pull something. Rumor has it that the Fjords survived THAT soup pot, due to their "
Aggressive Horses/Behavioral Conference in Texas
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net"
You all may remember that I was going to a behavior
training conference at the University of North Texas
last month which featured, among other speakers,
Alexandra Kurland who does clicker training in horses.
I came away with a couple of things, plus a really
good "putting in perspective" knowledge about
positive reinforcement training in many species of
both wild and domesticated animals.
One item was the dangers of using
punishment...including creating aggression. The
other, which I was introduced to further on the
clicker list that is related to Alexandra's Riding
with the Clicker program is something called
Constructional Aggression Treatment that specializes
in treating serious aggression in dogs. It is a
system that focuses on giving the animal control over
the stimulus that makes them aggressive. I
know...sounds like a perfect way to train the WRONG
behavior, but I gather it works. There is some
reason to believe it might work in horses. See
http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/2008/03/13/constructional-aggression-treatment/
for a description of "CAT." And see
http://www.tawzerdogvideos.com/JesusRosalesRuiz-KellieSnider.htm
for discussion of a video on the subject. I can
imagine the same system could be used for despook
training (and is probably the same system that is
used by some trainers for that purpose...for
example...a less rigorously carried out version of
this might be when horses are allowed to chase a
scary object like a blue tarp or flag.)
There was a very interesting video experiment by
Jesus Rosales-Ruiz, a professor at the University of
North Texas behavioral science department. It showed
a two dogs (which I THINK were actually the same dog)
who had been trained to touch a target on the floor.
The targets were on opposite sides of a room. The
dog that had been trained to touch the left target
("shaped, to be exact")was quick and enthusiastic.
That dog had never been corrected in any way. The
shaper had not punished it or indicated to the dog in
any way that some of its non-target-touching behavior
was wrong. There had been only positive
reinforcement. The second dog had been trained to
touch the target on the right. That dog was slow,
acted confused, and was not having fun, though he
did, eventually touch the target. That dog had been
corrected when he did other-other-than-target
touching behavior. I do believe they were the same
dog. I bought the video, but have to watch it.
(Alexandra Kurland's videos are very careful to teach
in a step by step and methodical way. This is good,
but sometimes it does make for a not very exciting
video because she makes SURE you understand the
principals she is trying to demonstrate.)
In order to go to this conference I had to fly half
way across the country and stay over two nights in
hotelsnot my idea of fun, and it cost a lot.
However, it made a huge difference in my attitude
toward the training I do because it lifted the fog of
confusion that I had on some topics. I would highly
recommend people consider going to a Clicker Expo if
it is in your part of the country. (The 2009 Clicker
Exp was last weekend and I do not see the 2010 on the
calender yet.
I am also considering trying this site www.StickK.com
to make a commitment to training a set number of
times a week ***with a lesson plan. I think it
might be pretty reinforcing. I have been using this
site to lose weight and have found it definitely
"concentrates the mind" on the goal. I have lost
quite a bit of weight already, on a lb a week basis.
It is a little like weightwatchers in that it
provides accountability, but without the expense
(unless you do not reach your goal.) It is designed
for goal settings of all kinds.
Gail
I know that vets in WA will put down healthy,
aggressive horses. I had a
friend who tried several trainers with a beautiful
rescue horse before he gave
up.
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Fjord Heralds - Free except for shipping
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I have a bunch of Heralds. Not sure yet what all years, but 2000-2004 at least, and probably many more. I am hanging on to the really recent ones, but getting rid of the others. If you have a particular issue you are looking for, let me know. AFter people have had their pick of issues they specifically want, I will offer bundles of them to people who want a lot of them at once (maybe people new to Fjords or...?) All I ask is that you try to keep these out of the landfills. Will ship as cheaply as possible. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: tail rubbing
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" WE had a horse with lice and were not able to find them, even though it was obvious he had them. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Fjord Rescue Subject
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" In our area, it is about $500 when all is said and done. I have heard of rescues offering free euthanasia. Gail It is not terribly expensive to have a horse put down. I called three facilities (all equine vets) and all charge #250.00. This includes disposal. Linda in WI Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: re 7 fjords died in Scotland
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" IN the US there are conspiracy laws. I have forgotten exactly what is involved in US conspiracy laws, but I think you do not have to prove an "act." Just more than one person, and something that was done in violation of the law, if I remember it correctly. It can be used to "get" people who are only peripherally guilty. Cannot think right now how it would work, even if Britain has these laws. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Mr. Stewart's story
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" What would happen if people from other countries wrote to the newspapers and expressed horror at what happened, and what he was allowed to get away with. Sort of like...you Scottish Barbarians!!! International embarrasment, perhaps? Is anyone able to monitor the current horses? Are they visible? Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: AIR FERNS
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" The irony is that a Fjord dying of overfeeding/grass grazing-caused laminitis may potentially suffer even more than one that has been starved to death. And for some Fjords, it does not take a lot of grass. And yet we do not judge the incident in the same way...probably because we understand that the consequences of overfeeding are not intuitively understood the way starvation is. Catherine is right, there is a big need for education. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: foot problems
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" The Cushings list talks about a substitute for bute because bute has adverse consequences for Cushings or pre-Cushings horses. Is anyone currently familiar with the protocol? I think it was jiagolon??? Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: knee and foot problems
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" There is a situation with horses that are preCushings where they develop foot soreness/laminitis in the fall. Their ACTH numbers go upif I remember correctly. Can anyone else remember the other details. I got this info from the Cushings list on Yahoo Groups. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: muzzles, weaning and as seen on tv
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Why not use a muzzle for weaning? (with breakaway, of course) Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Fjord mare in Windsor
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" HOw was the eye cyst diagnosed? We have a Fjord that we have retired after I went off of him several times because he seems to suddenly see things that are not there, on his right side. He will suddenly start running in terror while under saddle. In a pasture, the bolting does not last as long, but it does occur. Jim walked up to him in the pasture from an angle where he should have been visible and Gunthar bolted forward in terror. This was while he was grazing, so it was not a sign of disobedience or desire to get out of work. We have had a vet look in his eye, but the vet said he would have to examine him at night or in a darkened area to really see what is going on in his eye. If the cyst needed to be diagnosed in a dark place, maybe I should go that extra step. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Weaning..." The NATURAL WAY "
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I like the part about the "passionate caregiver." Gail " Most often the caregiver is reluctant to start the weaning process because of the undesirable symptoms that occur using the abrupt seperation method. The heart wrenching whinneying is very disturbing for the passionate caregiver " OK, heres a little REAL natural for ya. ; ) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Joe vs. The Grazing Muzzle
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" There is a very simple orange bucket muzzle. They are harder to get off and chafe less, I am told. Has anyone every tried one on a Fjord (I suspect they may not be big enough). Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Story of our escaped horses in local paper
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" This was written by the fire chief who put the horses back in our neighbor's field. See the right hand of the page. http://www.westcountygazette.com/editions/wcg200901_029.pdf Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Training Conference in Texas March 20th
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" This is a conference sponsored by the Orca Training Center at the Northern University of Texase. I have just registered to go on March 20th. It is probably appropriate for folks who do positive reinforcement training, or for folks who do not, but who are interested in the science of animal training...all types of animals. It is in Denton Texas, not far from the northern Texas border. One of the presenters is a master police dog trainer...doing scent discrimination, among other things. I am hoping someone else from the Fjord world might want to go. To give you an idea of the scientific basis of the work, see this link for a 15 page article on loading problem loaders. It cites Rashid, Marten, Lyons, Parelli, and others, and then has a scientifically evaluated trial of improving loading behaviors using targeting and positive reinforcement. http://seab.envmed.rochester.edu/jaba/articles/2001/jaba-34-04-0409.pdf The presenter I am interested in is the expert on microshaping behavior. ONe of the things they do is to teach the horse to contract the abdominal muscles as a way of teaching them self carriage. Here is an article about BF Skinner discovering how to shape an animal's behavior. http://seab.envmed.rochester.edu/abstracts/jeababstracts/82/_82-317.htm (Shaping a horse to do something gets the behavior REALLY solid. For example, you can shape a horse to do something like bow or pick up a foot. That behavior will be much, much more durable than using a luring technique, which is the way most people train a horse to bow.) Anyone interested in going? It appears that one will need to sign up fairly early. Here is the link. http://orgs.unt.edu/orca/ See below for more information from Alexandra Kurland. Gail Russell --- Original Message --- >From: Alexandra Kurland[ mailto:kurla...@crisny.org] Sent: 1/21/2009 8:40:10 AM To : the_click_that_teac...@yahoogroups.com Cc : Subject : FW: [the_click_that_teaches] re: Orca Conference Announcement I'm just back from the Clicker Expo with lots of interesting tidbits to digest. As always it was an exciting event, but that's not what I am posting about this morning. Instead I want to let people know about another conference I'll be participating in: The Art and the Science of Animal Training: Where are we now? Where are we going? Originally, the organizers thought about calling the conference "The Wicked Minds of Animal Training". We all rather fancied that title, but it didn't make it to the final selection. So who are the conference presenters? If you've been to the clicker Expos, you'll recognize some of the names: Bob Bailey, Kay Lawrence, Ken Ramirez, Steve White, Steve Martin, Jesus Rosales-Ruiz, and myself. I am truly honored to be included in such company. Some of you may not be familiar with all these names. Unless you have birds, Steve Martin may be someone you haven't run across yet. He developed the first free flight bird show back in 1976. He has consulted at zoological facilities all over the world. If you have seen a free flight bird show, you've seen his work. I am very excited to hear him speak. Kay Lawrence is a canine clicker trainer from the UK who is among other things a micro shaping specialist. Steve White is another canine clicker trainer who specializes in scent work and tracking. Both are well known Clicker Expo faculty members. Ken Ramirez is the VP of Animal collections and Training at Chicago's Shedd Aquarium. He has become well known at the Clicker Expos as a superb presenter. His work is always creative and inventive and helps the rest of us to think a little further out of the box. Bob Bailey, I'm sure, is a name most of you recognize. You may know him best through the chicken training camps he runs. Along with Karen Pryor, Bob Bailey is one of the great early pioneers of clicker training. Any opportunity to hear him speak should be taken advantage of. Jesus Rosales-Ruiz is a behavioral analyst from the University of North Texas. I've written many times about his work on poisoned cues. He will be chairing the conference which is being organized by his graduate students. The conference will be on March 20. Space is limited at the conference so if you are interested, you should sign up early. For more information go to: http://orgs.unt.edu/orca/ Alexandra Kurlandtheclickercenter.com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages |Files |Photos |Links |Datab
RE: Lost in Seattle
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Did any one reply|? I am still here and could start asking? I saw them in the room all right. You could try calling Howard and Sophie's cell phone if you have it. They are heading to the airport. Gail --- Original Message --- >From: Jacquelyn Leuener[mailto:j...@wealth-counselors.com] Sent: 1/19/2009 8:23:43 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Lost in Seattle This message is from: "Jacquelyn Leuener" Hello-Did any attendees notice and/or pick up my posters (in one of the cardboard carriers)? I believe I left it either inside the meeting room at back right wall or out in the hallway. I had to dash to make my flight and spaced it. Please email me j...@wealth-counselors.com or call me (775) 225-3951 I will gladly pay to have those mailed to me! Thanks much and the conference was tremendous! -Jacquelyn in No. Nevada Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Farriery
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Take care in cutting down the heel. My somewhat dim understanding is that the heels will start to take care of themselves if you take care of the toe. We had our vet (who had also been to a horse shoeing school) trim two of our horses for a year. One had heel problems, but she did not want to do much at all to the heel. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Farriery
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" The key is the toes. Removing the shoes is likely to help if you keep the toes back, either by wear or more frequent trimming. You can buy the DVD by the American presenter. www.missionfarrierschool.com --- Original Message --- >From: Danilo and Liz Ostacchini[mailto:daniloand...@hotmail.com] Sent: 1/17/2009 12:52:42 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Farriery This message is from: Danilo and Liz Ostacchini Hi I have five fjords, 3 in work, a broodmare and a colt. My three in work are having variable problems with stumbling. Fjords in the UK are not the norm. Is it all possible that the problems arise by incorect farriery ( all wear front shoes only). Is there a fjord specific corect way of trimming their feet? Im thinking of going barefoot with two in the hope that they will wear their feet correctly themselves. I saw that the American seminar session on feet was today. If any one has a fact sheet they might share with me Id be realy interested. Thanks guys Liz in a windy Southern England. _ Choose the perfect PC or mobile phone for you http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/130777504/direct/01/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Room share available at NFHR meeting
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I do have an extra double bed in my room if anyone would like to share the room cost of $129, (plus whatever stupid fees and taxes go on top of that). INcludes breakfast...not sure how good. Alaska has really, really good rates right now to Seattle. Gail --- Original Message --- >From : plumg...@pon.net[mailto:plumg...@pon.net] Sent: 1/13/2009 11:39:29 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: coffee, toast and jam This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I will throw a few crumbs your way LIsa...not to worry. Also...I do have an extra bedwith that breakfast ...if someone wants to split the room fee with me? Gail --- Original Message --- >From: pedfjo...@aol.com[ mailto:pedfjo...@aol.com] Sent: 1/13/2009 11:30:44 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: coffee, toast and jam This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:47:53 AM Mountain Standard Time, owner-fjordhorse-dig...@angus.mystery.com writes: > > That almost sounds better than the rate we got Gail. We are payning $109 a > night but without breakfast included. WHAT No breakfast Im rooming with Gail..Lisa ** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecre ditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: coffee, toast and jam
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I will throw a few crumbs your way LIsa...not to worry. Also...I do have an extra bedwith that breakfast ...if someone wants to split the room fee with me? Gail --- Original Message --- >From: pedfjo...@aol.com[mailto:pedfjo...@aol.com] Sent: 1/13/2009 11:30:44 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: coffee, toast and jam This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:47:53 AM Mountain Standard Time, owner-fjordhorse-dig...@angus.mystery.com writes: > > That almost sounds better than the rate we got Gail. We are payning $109 a > night but without breakfast included. WHAT No breakfast Im rooming with Gail..Lisa ** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecre ditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Handicapped Driving
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" If someone has balance problems, I highly recommend getting a western saddle with professionally turned stirrups. The ones where there is a piece of leather wrapped around the stirrup flap, and then tied in place. I recently bought a saddle like this, and was amazed at how much easier it was to stay in the saddle. You might be able to come close to duplicating the effect by aggressively wetting and turning the stirrups with a two by four put through the stirrups while the saddle is stored. Gail I have a good friend who had polio as a child. She is experiencing some set backs and wants to try riding to improve her balance. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Jean G.
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I cannot find the e-mail this is referring to...about Jean moving off her farm and finding Gunnar a new home. --- Original Message --- >From: Linda Lehnert[mailto:lindalehn...@hotmail.com] Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: Jensen's Remember When/ Njal
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" The lighter weight Fjords are not just lighterthey have long legs. Given that FJords were designed as FJORD horses, to work on steep mountain sides, I would think it would be better for them to be a little on the short legged side. My horse, Rom, who is lighter than many Fjords, although he still has good sized cannon bones, has exceptionally long legs. When you couple the long legs with a lighter build, you start to get something that looks closer to a Morgan or TBwhich, IMO, is what a couple of the Fjords at the 25th anniversary looked like. Gail the breed first used as workhorses, probably war horses carrying robust warriors and their heavy gear, climbing steep terrain.. later used for farming power. historically they have been well recorded as having solid muscular bodies and legs, having an exceptionally high strength to size ratio. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: gut sounds in Fjords
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Jean...how close are you to the Rogue Valley? Our beloved vet, Mitch Benson, moved there several years ago. He is an abolutely wonderful person. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: gut sounds in Fjords
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" My Fjord had gut sounds, and had very bad treatment from a cattle vet. It was a blockage and she died a horrible death, without much help from the vet. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Peppermint Pattie is, in fact, a pretty delicate flower right now...though maybe I am just being softened up. She is 18 lbs at seven months, whereas Corgis are supposed to be between 24 and 26 pounds. The breeder bought her to breed (two kennels sharing her) but had to rethink when she did not grow bigger. She is very, very sweet. Jim, who is not a dog person, likes her...and she already likes him best. The sheriff's deputy finally called. He says there is nothing he can do. She was apparently injured, and said she had been riding a horse, fell off, and three more ran over her. She was found walking down the middle of the highway on a night of freezing fog. The deputy said he almost ran over her. She lives about twenty miles away (so her license says) and is known to be someone who takes meds for a mental condition. Deputy said she appeared to be off her meds. He said I have no "No trespassing signs" so she cannot be prosecuted for trespassing. And, because no one saw her do anything that involved taking the horses off the property, he can only charge her with a misdemeanor, and could not get a conviction. I protested that the California Penal Code says "running off livestock" is theft, and if the livestock is over $100 in value, it is a felony. He basically says there is no evidence she ran them off. She said she had fallen off, could not get out the fence, and so had to open a bunch of gates to get out. Apparently she was like in a daze, talking very fast. So...no help there. I do have animal control helping me try to figure out if she is the same person who has been turning me into animal control. If I can connect that, I can probably get a restraining order. In the meantime, we have eight padlocks, one for each gate in the place. And, I am going to do some major security improvements as soon as I manage to refi my house (which has taken over a month already, with no loan yet in sight). Gail --- Original Message --- >From: Steve McIlree[mailto:st...@carriagehorse.com] Sent: 12/16/2008 8:36:28 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves This message is from: Steve McIlree Gail wrote: > > Lisa Pedersen says our new Corgi (we are in Brookings OR to pick her up) would bark and alarm, and > we could build a kennel for her near the horses...but we had really intended for her to have a > cushy "house life." Maybe another "outside dog" that is a bit bigger. Although Clust is very much a house dog, I would remind you that Corgis are in fact BIG dogs with very SHORT legs. If you don't learn that right up front they will remind you of it continually. -- Steve Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Found out that the deputy that I have to see about the theft is not on duty until this coming Saturday. We are finding more and more evidence of what she did. If she rode a horse, she may have done it with some heavy chains we had wrapped around the gates. We also found more another gate she opened. It looked like the one horse that was not left out remained only because she did not find the correct gate to let her out. We are pursuing it. Off to call animal control about it. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" We are stuck with the easement. I think we are going to have to perimeter fence, and probably put gates on our driveway and the easement. Unfortunate, because it works much better not to fence the perimeter. I am not even sure I believe she was riding. I do not know how she would have gotten on without a rope (which we cannot find any sign of, though she could have had one). She certainly would not have been able to stay on, running in a herd situation (six horses), loose away from home in the middle of the night. Only one of our horses would buck, but they all can be spooky and dodge and weave. I will keep after the police. THanks for the tip. Gail --- Original Message --- >From: jerrell friz[mailto:jf...@com-pair.net] Sent: 12/15/2008 7:52:50 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves This message is from: "jerrell friz" Hi Gail, I would forget about driveway alerts. They are hard to adjust, and will drive you nuts with false alarms. Having said that, I use them, but it took awhile to adjust them.[Although, they are very cheap] I think in a short time we will all be using video monitors, with night vision, connected to recorders. The only way to get the sheriff to do anything here in this county, is to get real tough, keep calling them. I keep a camera, still, and video, with me most of the time with the date/time stamp on. When a strange car drives in the driveway,[ very rare,, as our gate is closed, and locked] I take photos of the car plates, and people. [We have had a rash of robberies in our neighborhood in the last year] When people fall off a horse, for what ever the reason, they ALWAYS claim to have been bucked off, seen and heard it many times. [very few people will say, oh, I fell off because I was not paying attention.] Gail, you said you did not have perimeter fencing, I think that is a must nowadays. The easement on your property? Is it a legal easement? I would try to get that removed if it is on your property. The right kind of a trained dog can be very helpful. [Never ever have a Pit Bull though] My 3 cents worth Jerry Anderson, Ca. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" OK...I looked up the Sonoma County event log. It says that there was a "security check/complete" at 3:30 AM near Appian Way. I also checked the arrest records. No one was arrested. It appears they have no plans to do anything about it. Called the investigations number and left a message that I wanted to file charges and that I was afraid the woman was going to come back and do it again...emphasizing how deliberate an act it was. (They probably just wrote her off as a drunk who opened 1 gate.) We will see if anyone calls us. If not, we will go to the offices ourselves. Gail --- Original Message --- >From: plumg...@pon.net[mailto:plumg...@pon.net] Sent: 12/15/2008 7:35:48 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Will do, as soon as we get home and I can take someone on a tour to show them the lengths the woman went to to release all the horses. Or I will prepare a drawing showing where all the gates were. It was hard work letting them all out, and, for them all to have stuck together, they have to have been driven out of their pens and into a group. Somehow JIm's horse got separated and stayed home, but the others were driven into one big group and then out onto the highway. Will go after it, and find those crimes in the CA penal code. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Will do, as soon as we get home and I can take someone on a tour to show them the lengths the woman went to to release all the horses. Or I will prepare a drawing showing where all the gates were. It was hard work letting them all out, and, for them all to have stuck together, they have to have been driven out of their pens and into a group. Somehow JIm's horse got separated and stayed home, but the others were driven into one big group and then out onto the highway. Will go after it, and find those crimes in the CA penal code. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Ah yes. Jim has enough fire power to get us all in really big trouble. However, he has not used it in years, and we have both gone soft in our old age about killing anything...even the Christmas turkey. Problem with the driveway alarm is that the property is not perimeter fenced, so anyone can approach from anywhere. We also have an easement that crosses our property, with folks that go thru there fairly regularly. I think we are going to have to do some perimeter fencing to make the situation manageable. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" Ah yes. Jim has enough fire power to get us all in really big trouble. However, he has not used it in years, and we have both gone soft in our old age about killing anything...even the Christmas turkey. Problem with the driveway alarm is that the property is not perimeter fenced, so anyone can approach from anywhere. We also have an easement that crosses our property, with folks that go thru there fairly regularly. I think we are going to have to do some perimeter fencing to make the situation manageable. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I need to get Jon Ofjord's plans to insulate the water tanks in Cedarville. We installed locks on most of the gates last night, but there are still places this woman can get gates open. We found that she opened another gate (trying to release the Arabian with the hurt foot)...one we had not found before that just goes into the arena. She clearly searched the place thoroughly, in freezing cold in the middle of the night, and opened eVERY gate she could find. Police have not called us, which concerns me. Theft (including "running off" animals) in California carries a one year penalty for a theft over $400. She will get a slap on the wrist unless there is some kind of enhancement for malice, or possibly for attempted murder, or for animal abuse. Attempted murder clearly will not fly, but she could easily have killed someone who hit one of the horses. I need to figure out what to do to motivate the police to take it seriously. The officer that was on duty that night was supposed to have called us last night, but we did not hear anything. Lisa Pedersen says our new Corgi (we are in Brookings OR to pick her up) would bark and alarm, and we could build a kennel for her near the horses...but we had really intended for her to have a cushy "house life." Maybe another "outside dog" that is a bit bigger. Our neighbors across the street are going to start leaving their biggest dog out at night. figuring he is not the wandering type, and is too big to be killed by coyotes. I am now also worried about the oleander hedge up the road that this woman could take leaves from. If she is who we think she is, she knows something about horses. We are not sure whether or not she was lying about riding the horses. I do not know how she could have gotten on any of those horses with no rope (no sign she had one), especially once they were loose. ONly one of our horses is inclined to buck, but they would dodge and weave when spooked by a bunch of running horses. GAil --- Original Message --- >From: Starfire Farm[mailto:starfiref...@usa.net] Sent: 12/15/2008 1:54:55 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Re: cold ? and crazy horse thieves This message is from: Starfire Farm Minus 20 here (that's *-20*) which can happen, but we're definitely not used to it. Tank heaters are doing great, but a couple of our 8 plus year-old Nelson waterers froze last night. :-( At least the sun is out today and it has warmed to a balmy 0 degrees, so I could top off the water tanks in reasonable comfort. Thanks to Jon Ofjord's great construction plans, Sandy and her dad have made three inslulated boxes to almost fully enclose our Rubbermaid water tanks. They are working like a charm. The only thing is that the exterior is made out of plywood and the TERMITES masquerading as FJORDS are acting like the darned wood is candy-coated. So we've modified the design of the exterior with varying amounts of hardware cloth and sheet metal corners. This seems to be working, so far. The horses are just fine. If I am concerned about their H2O intake, I feed them a warm, soupy, salty bran mash. One could do the same with beet pulp that is soaked to a soupy, very watery mush. I like to feed it slighly warm so they take their time eating it. The horses love it. Corrine, you are NOT a wimp! In your neck of the woods you have much more moisture in your air and I would be freezing to death there at those temps! Gail, WHAT THE??? I hope it was Rom that bucked her off...;-) Or maybe she tried to ride Gunthar? THAT would be a hoot. Forget the driveway alarm, get some bad a~~ guard dogs that really bite. Beth pedfjo...@aol.com wrote: >This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com > >In a message dated 12/15/2008 10:49:06 AM Mountain Standard Time, >owner-fjordhorse-dig...@angus.mystery.com writes: > > > >>This message is from: "Willows Edge Farm" >> >>OK, those of you in the mid-west and east coast know about these bone >>chilling temps that we are having here in WA (and I think OR as well). We >>have 14F right now where we are and no sight of above mid 20s >> >> > > Corrine. You are a wimp. ; ) > >>From my friend, Laura in PACKERS COUNTRY today. > >TEMPERATURES THIS AFTERNOON WILL REMAIN FROM ZERO TO 5 BELOW ZERO ACROSS >CENTRAL AND NORTH CENTRAL WISCONSIN TO AROUND 5 ABOVE ZERO ALONG THE LAKE >SHORE. >WEST WINDS OF 15 TO 30 MPH WITH HIGHER GUSTS WILL PRODUCE WIND CHILLS OF 20 TO >30 BELOW ZERO. WIND CHILL READINGS AS LOW AS 35 BELOW ZERO ARE POSSIBLE ACROSS >NORTH CENTRAL WISCONSIN. THIS CAN PRODUCE FROSTBITE IN 30 MINUTES OR LESS >UNLESS YOU ARE DRESSED PROPERLY. >>>> > > > &g
RE: dressage saddle for short backed fjords
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I have a beautiful Rembrandt OS Dressage saddle. It has a wide tree and the shoulders are flared a bit so it does not interfere with the shoulders. It is not the Integra (which is adjustable). Has beautiful leather with cushioned knee rolls that put the rider in good, and VERY comfortable position. I have two of them. One is well worn, and one is in very good shape as I have no intention of showing. The leather on these saddles is nicer than most newer saddles. We have been keeping this one in our bedroom. I am thinking about selling the one that is in good shape. I think the size must be around 17 1/2 to 18 inches. I am away from home right now, so cannot measure it. Will be back on Wednesday, but available by e-mail before. --- Original Message --- >From: Debby[mailto:miss.am...@earthlink.net] Sent: 12/15/2008 5:50:51 AM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: dressage saddle for short backed fjords This message is from: "Debby" Would love to know/hear what dressage saddles work on your fjords. And if anyone has one for sale, or one they aren't using...give me a chance to try it...Or had dressage saddles they'd used before and thought they worked really well with fjords. My two are both short backed, one being taller than the other, but they both still require the extra wide tree and the taller one, though seems loner, his back is still not that long. He just has a big butt... thanks for any info. Debby Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Truly Crazy Horse Theft
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" If we did not have such a nice house (cozy radiant heat!!!) and such nice neighbors, we would move out of here. Kookville is right! When found the woman was wearing a spiked dog collar, and a bunch of chains. When asked what she was doing, she said she was "looking for my man." Putting two and two together, we think she is one of a group of youngish druggies that live up our relatively short dead end road. They were featured in an incident where another of our crazy neighbors deliberately ran over and killed their puppy. The guy who owned the puppy had actually gone and gotten a job and was doing OK, but he was killed in a car accident. Unfortunately, the puppy owner did not press charges because his dogs were unlicensed, and he did not want trouble. (The puppy killer once aimed his truck at me and my son, and threatened to run us down because we were standing on the road talking) Anyway...this woman was one of the group of druggies, who probably did not reform. Another friend thinks she may have been someone who was sentenced to community service at a therapeutic riding center several years ago. I am going to do everything in my power to see that this woman is charged with the biggest possible crime. Jim's son is looking thru the penal code tonight to see if there is some kind of enhanced penalty for rustling livestock in California. At minimum, I think opening the horse pen gate may qualify as burglary (I cannot remember all the elements of burglary) and it should be a felony because of the value of the horses. I am also going to stress that she could have gotten the horses killed and an innocent person(s) in any car that might have hit them. I am also considering going to the victim's rights part of the court and making a stink so as to stop the prosecutor from bargaining away or trivializing the crime. I may also try to sue her civilly, though I cannot figure out what the damages would be unless Jim and I start going to a shrink and claim intentional infliction of emotional distress. My purpose would be to try to create financial distress so that whatever person (I suspect a parent) owns the property would have to kick them out. In the meantime, we know she will be back home tonight and a constant danger to us. We are on the road, on our way to pick up our Pembroke Welsh Corgi puppy that Lisa Pedersen found for us. Jim's son went to Home Depot and bought 8 locks and chains and put them on every single gate in the place. We will probably electric fence the perimter, and possibly install cameras and motion sensor alarms. I am really, really angry! And Karen...thinks for the offer. We might consider borrowing a horse trailer from you in the spring so we can move all horses at once. We are spending at least six months in Cedarville next year. The riding is so wonderful there that it makes no sense not to. If we ever get a shelter organized for the horses, and a winter dwelling organized for us, we might move up there. Gail Forestville CA Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Truly Crazy Horse Theft
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I have to leave, so cannot go into this much...and do not know all. At 6 AM, neighbors stopped to say we had a horse out. I went out to catch the horse, and three widely spaced horse pens on our property had the gates open and the horses were gone. Only one horse was still in a pen. She had a large bandage on, and the thief might have left her on purpose...or maybe just did not see her. We found our remaining six loose horses in our neighbor's field, eating grass, behind two locked gates. Apparently the thief, a woman, was found riding one of our horses two miles away, on what is normally a busy local highway (Highway 116, at Mom's Apple Pie in Sebastopol if you want to google map it). The loose horses were with her (five) and they took off, spooking the one she was riding and she was bucked off. She is now in the local hospital. This happened at 3:11 AM. The loose horse that stayed home must just not have gone with the herd when she left with them. To get them all to go with her, she would have had to round them up as they are widely spaced. ONly someone who had cased the joint could have done it. AND, she did not open the most obvious gate that is on the highway. She had to go up past our house, and drive the horses around a gate to get them out of there. Jim is off at the Firehouse to try to find out what else happened as the firemen put our horses in the neighbor's pen, thinking they were theirs. We think it is a crazy woman who has twice now turned us in to animal control Gail --- Original Message --- >From: Vic Faeo[mailto:dogknows2...@yahoo.com] Sent: 12/11/2008 4:27:19 PM To : fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Cc : Subject : RE: Re: Senior Feed Question This message is from: Vic Faeo Hi, Jean. I may have missed this, if you guys have already talked about this... I am wondering why you like sunflower chips? Is it for the vegetable omega oils? Vic and ... a Fjord someday - Original Message This message is from: Jean Ernest I feed my two senior Fjords Nutrena Senior Life, which has no molasses. I have been feeding Stella 2 lbs in the morning and 2 lbs in the evening. She is 31, and can still eat some hay after I had her teeth done. She also get a couple handfuls of sunflower chiips. Old Bjarne gets 3 lbs mid day of the Nutrena Senior Life, plus a couple handfuls of Sunflower chips and his joint suplement. He is 33. I like the Nutrena Senior Lilfe because it doesn't have the molasses. The other two fjords stay fat on just hay plus a couple handfuls of sunflower chips along with an ounce of ShowGlo vitamins. I don't give the old guys the Sho-Glo because they get enough vitamions in their senior feed. All four are in fine shape this winter with temps down to -25F so far. I feed the more expensive sunflower CHIPS (no hulls) because of the poor teeth on the two old guys. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, +14 today! > Hello! I need to start my 29-year-old stallion, Ivan, on Senior Feed by > Purina. While he eats moistened hay cubes and pelleted grain well, he is > starting to have some problems eating hay. To supplement that, I want to feed the > Senior Feed, but I am just not sure at what amount to start him on. > _ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12 2008 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I would encourage folks not to get too worried about chipping up. My horses are trimmed every five weeks. If they go over that, they are clearly getting long (at least most times of the year) and start chipping worse than if they are trimmed regularly. To a certain extent, chipping is the way horses self-trim their feet, so I would not get real concerned about minor chipping. Gail pretty durable on most any surface except tar and cement. This is when we drive and ride our fjords 4-6 days a week on this type of surface. Some others may find this to never be a problem for thier fjords, which is great. I suggest trying without and if you start seeing some wear and tear you can always go back. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I do pretty well with Rom. Round type gravel is no problem. Gunthar has flat feet. He is draftier, and maybe would have flatter feet anyway. He tends to be tender. I have two three QH that also do pretty well, though all gimp on roads with big crushed rock pieces. One should know, however, that horses in shoes are also getting their feet bruised on these same rocks (think about it, the shoes do not lift them up that high). The horses just do not gimp because their feet are numbed by the lack of circulation in their feet. So says our vet/farrier. With the cost of shoeing one can do a lot of experimenting with boots. I use the Easy Boot Epics, but am considering trying the Renegades. It would take a big emergency to get me to put shoes back any of my horses. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" I do pretty well with Rom. Round type gravel is no problem. Gunthar has flat feet. He is draftier, and maybe would have flatter feet anyway. He tends to be tender. I have two three QH that also do pretty well, though all gimp on roads with big crushed rock pieces. With the cost of shoeing one can do a lot of experimenting with boots. I use the Easy Boot Epics, but am considering trying the Renegades. It would take a big emergency to get me to put shoes back any of my horses. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Rain Rot
This message is from: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Here is an interesting link on rain rot by a vet. http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/Dec/07/persistence-key-to-treating-rain-rot/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Rain Rot
This message is from: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I suspect she has some kind of metabolic issue. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would join the Cushings list on Yahoo (or ask her owners to do so). She sounds like the horse of a friend of mine that ended up with laminitis in the fall. The Yahoo list also has suggestions for immune system support. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
