stumbling fjords
This message is from: Rose or Murph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Ruthie. I agree with you about NOT using a halter as a bridle to ride in. Any horse, I don't care how well trained it is, if scared badly enough out on the trail, will RUN. I have ridden many different horses for years on the trails, deep in the woods, over rocks, through rivers. Eventually, the horse is spooked at one time or another by something. I know each one reacts differently, and some people may think not my little prince or princess, I am one with the horse. HE knows me and will stop by my loving tugs on the halter no matter what is happening. I believe in traditional bridles, I always like to have a bit in case of an emergency, otherwise I sit up tall, use my legs and leave the horses face alone. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: stumbling Fjords
This message is from: ruth bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS You don't need to rush out and buy a dressage saddle, your Western saddle will work. and forget about the bit, your halter will do just fine. If you can't ride your horse using a halter, then the ground work was never done. [ and you will be back to stumbling along] Jerry I STRONGLY recommend NOT using a halter for riding head gear. I do see your point, about adequate prior ground work, this might be a valid test for veteran riders. But every situation is so different.. there might be many on this list with little or no riding experience, some with newly acquired Fjords with unknown backgrounds, some who have no arena to ride in--their using a halter for a head piece could be disasterous. Don't do it. A horse immediately realizes the lack of control, stoppability, and the freedom to duck their head if they are inclined to buck--should any kind of unforseen stimuli occur--and with horses you must always expect the unexpected. ! I think that sometimes we forget how green some of the newbies are; that could easily be mislead by a casual observation such as using halters for bridles. As far as stumbling, we've had this conversation in the past, which might be profitable to revisit, via the link at the bottom of each letter--for a search of the archives. There's been some great comments made, only one I could add is that horses who have been closely contained for their entire existence, sometimes stumble a lot on uneven terrain--until they get the hang of it with use. Ruthie, nw mt, US The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: stumbling Fjords
This message is from: Cherie Mascis [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's been some great comments made, only one I could add is that horses who have been closely contained for their entire existence, sometimes stumble a lot on uneven terrain--until they get the hang of it with use. Ruthie, nw mt, US That's a good point Ruth. My boss bought two Belgians who were lucky to get out an hour a day on flat land. They were complete Klutzes on our, rocky, hilly terrain. One even fell down when I was turning him on a slight slope! Luckily after running around for several months with six other horses, they have built up muscle and acquired coordination. My Fjord, Tyra, who has never been kept in a stall, is very athletic and comfortable in rough terrain. Cherie Western North Carolina Lilja, Roka (Icelandics)and Tyra (Fjord) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
stumbling horses and EPSM
This message is from: Rose or Murph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, a couple people brought up stumbling. I have been doing research from safergrass.org. It focuses on a EPSM Equine Polysaccaride Myopathy,which has been found to be common in draft horses.(fjords and percherons). It can lead to tying up, stumbling, ect. It is an inability to metabolize carbohydrates. I have a percheron who has stumbled many times during my rides, to the point of going down. I have since retired him as he is getting older, and due to his stumbling problem I do not feel safe anymore cantering or trotting on him. As described in some Dr Valentine's articles, some of the symptoms can go unnoticed in a horse who is not physically sick, but seems reluctant to pick up the canter, won't pick up his feet, does not back up easily,and is lethargic under saddle. My horse also had the hard thick crest in his neck. I had my hay analyzed for sugar, starch, and protein content. It came out in the recommended allowances for a horse exhibiting signs of EPSM. I have noticed, my gelding seems to play more than he ever has, running bucking. His crest has decreased in size and has become softer. He willingly picked up his feet for me the other day, he felt much more flexible, which is a huge sign that the diet is working. I am going to continue on with it, and see what happens. For those of you who think your horse has a stumbling issue, go to the safergrass.org website and read about EPSM. Fjords are at a higher risk for EPSM because they fit the profile for the disease. I have a young Fjord that I am feeding very carefully. The website is very interesting as it talks about plants, how they store sugar, what temps they store the most sugar. It talks about optimum hours of the day to let your horses graze. I did not have a lot of faith at first but I am starting to see results with my gelding. The most important key is to keep the fjordies weight under control, and know how much sugar, starch and protein is in your hay. Hope this helps. Rosemary in Roy Chilly and clear tonight The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: stumbling
This message is from: Eileen Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] My mare would stumble, but only under saddle, not while she was being driven or at liberty. I too found that it was a saddle fitting issue, and the fix for her was to go with treeless saddles. I ride her in a Bob Marshall, and she doesn't stumble. FWIW, she's barefoot, has great feet, and I use horse boots when I think we'll be on a lot of pavement or rocks. Eileen in frosty eastern WA The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: stumbling Fjords
This message is from: jerrell friz [EMAIL PROTECTED] I should have also said, I once had a trainer show me, on his tall lanky Quarter Horse, how you can make a horse stumble by sitting/leaning too far forward. His horse started stubbing his toes when he put his balance point too far forward. He then asked me to do the same, and voila, my Fjordie stumbled the next step after I leaned forward on the flat. I know I was trained to put my weight more forward, more often than is recommended today. Bad habits are hard to break. Also, I often see saddles that are placed too far forward. When you place a saddle on your horse, shimmy it back keeping the hard tree of the saddle off the shoulders but not too far, still keeping snug to the contours of the horse's back. Meredith Sessoms Meredith your post is right on Although there might be other reasons,,, this one is always overlooked. [ it is so easy to blame the farrier, or the horse, when it is the 250 lb. RIDER] Horses are very, very, VERY, sensitive to your BALANCE, and AIDS,please folks get lessons from a good dressage trainer. Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca. PS You don't need to rush out and buy a dressage saddle, your Western saddle will work. and forget about the bit, your halter will do just fine. If you can't ride your horse using a halter, then the ground work was never done. [ and you will be back to stumbling along] For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services! The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: stumbling horses and EPSM and what about EPM?
This message is from: debora seely [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Here's another thought. How about EPM? -- the protozoan carried by possums. I trained a horse that was falling all the time and he turned up with a severe case of EPM. If you can cross a horses legs and he just leaves them there for a minute or so then, he may be infected. Check with your vet. I have lived in Missouri and Michigan and there have been horses all around me that have had it. One of mine ended up with it from the vaccine. The treatment was expensive but that horse came out of it. (I don't recommend the vaccine. Four horses at my barn came down with it after the second vaccine.) Deb Seely Rose or Murph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Rose or Murph Hi, a couple people brought up stumbling. I have been doing research from safergrass.org. It focuses on a EPSM Equine Polysaccaride Myopathy,which has been found to be common in draft horses.(fjords and percherons). It can lead to tying up, stumbling, ect. It is an inability to metabolize carbohydrates. I have a percheron who has stumbled many times during my rides, to the point of going down. I have since retired him as he is getting older, and due to his stumbling problem I do not feel safe anymore cantering or trotting on him. As described in some Dr Valentine's articles, some of the symptoms can go unnoticed in a horse who is not physically sick, but seems reluctant to pick up the canter, won't pick up his feet, does not back up easily,and is lethargic under saddle. My horse also had the hard thick crest in his neck. I had my hay analyzed for sugar, starch, and protein content. It came out in the recommended allowances for a horse exhibiting signs of EPSM. I have noticed, my gelding seems to play more than he ever has, running bucking. His crest has decreased in size and has become softer. He willingly picked up his feet for me the other day, he felt much more flexible, which is a huge sign that the diet is working. I am going to continue on with it, and see what happens. For those of you who think your horse has a stumbling issue, go to the safergrass.org website and read about EPSM. Fjords are at a higher risk for EPSM because they fit the profile for the disease. I have a young Fjord that I am feeding very carefully. The website is very interesting as it talks about plants, how they store sugar, what temps they store the most sugar. It talks about optimum hours of the day to let your horses graze. I did not have a lot of faith at first but I am starting to see results with my gelding. The most important key is to keep the fjordies weight under control, and know how much sugar, starch and protein is in your hay. Hope this helps. Rosemary in Roy Chilly and clear tonight The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
stumbling horses
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a horse who tends to stumble also. We discovered she has thin soles, so now my farrier puts leather pads on her front feet. She's not perfect with the pads, but the situation is improved. Karen The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: stumbling horses
This message is from: Gail Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wonder if she stumbles because tender feet prevent her from doing a heel first landing. See this link. http://www.naturalhoofcareofcolorado.com/hoofdistortions.html I noticed this guy is near Beth and Sandy and Jeanne. Gail The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
stumbling
This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] My husbands nonfjord use to stumble, to the point of falling on his face...mostly it was rider errorThe horse did have some confirmation problems, over at the knee and behind at the fetlockBut, husband had a habit of carrying the horse, especially at the canter...when he'd drop contact, the horse would fall on his faceHe never stumbled when running free... Debby The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Stumbling Fjords
This message is from: Melissa Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not long after basic riding training began, my coming-6-year-old Fjord gelding began stumbling. When rest/light work, bute, hoof trimming, etc., had no effect, I had x-rays of his front pasterns taken. I was devastated at the diagnosis--low articular ringbone in both front legs. Even my vet was surprised by what the x-rays revealed, given my gelding's age. I had bought him as a long yearling, and was crazy about him. He had been to a few small shows, and everybody loved him. Needless to say, all of my plans for a dressage and trailriding life with him came to a sudden halt. Even after several rounds of extracorporeal shock wave therapy, I never felt comfortable or safe riding him on other than level surfaces, and at no faster than a walk. He had a wonderful temperament, and I wanted him to be more than a pasture ornament. After much research, I located a therapeutic riding program that, with full knowledge of his low ringbone, agreed to a permanent lease instead of a donation so that I could maintain ownership. The directors of the program are thrilled to have him, and I am happy knowing that he has had a second chance at a career. The moral of the story--Stumbling is not always benign; it can be a symptom of a serious underlying condition. Melissa Dowling The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: stumbling Fjords
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] If your saddle was pinching or jabbing her shoulders that may have made her stumble. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska cloudy and mild, 20 degrees At 10:54 AM 12/8/2007, you wrote: This message is from: Nature Friends Outdoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I finally got to ride my mare in the Little Joe bare back pad and a few things changed (first my legs kind of ached...but with a barrel shaped horse that's unavoidable). I noticed that my mare is lighter on the forehand and less prone to stumble. She had a higher lighter head carriage and seemed more balanced and overall really happy. Also you have such a close contact that the slightest hint of a pressure from my legs would make her react. I am wondering about my saddle now... even though she never resented being saddled or ridden with it and I know that it fits her. That might be something to explore especially if your horse does not stumble in harness... Yasmine Djabri The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Stumbling
This message is from: Steve Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Was RE: poor quality horses One suggestion for stumbling is to have a natural hoof trimmer out to look at his hooves. Heels and bars trimmed to proper height, proper angles, flares pared down, and a good mustang roll might do wonders. Meredith Sessoms The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: Stumbling
This message is from: Gail Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] WS Romulus, who has a mucho Rei Halsneas blood in him was stumbling. It was because he was on a 7 to 8 week trim schedule, with not a lot of wear to his hooves thru riding, or living conditions to his hooves. (We are in sandy loam, and I refuse to bring in rock for the paddocks because I will be ruining prime ag land by doing so...that may be needed in the future.). Rom was stumbling. Bad! This is not a Fjord that is conformationally heavy in the front end. BaWe put him on a 5 week schedule, with a mustang roll, and he is doing fine with that. Keeping those long toes from developing is everything. Gail The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
backing out of trailer, and stumbling fjord
This message is from: yvonne [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message from Yvonne olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I am from Vancouver Island, with my 5 fjords, and getting lots of time with thiem so life is good. When backing from a trailer, it takes lots of time, First get them backing well through all the training. (parelli is fantastic) My partner has encouaged me to guide them out by holding the halter to keep their angle right as they back , then let them take a step at a time, let them look back relax, then take another step, and so on till they are out, this can take a long time. (Have I said that already?) If you let them turn around, they will be less likely to back without your guidance and support. Happy trailering. I got 'Storey's guide to training horses' out of our library-Excellent book!!!, and she says that a horse that is not paying attention, or not collected, ( just not under himself? I tried to find the reference, but couldn't find it again) will often trip, and I have one of those horses. He is a lovely Drafty fella , perfect for team driving, single driving, and a great ride, but does trip once in a while. We have never fell , but I hold the reins, lightly to avoid going down with his stumble. Have fun, Yvonne The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: backing out of trailer, and stumbling fjord
This message is from: Linda Lottie [EMAIL PROTECTED] I teach my horses to back out and use the word step when they come to the end of the trailer floor. So far, so good:) LJBL in WI From: yvonne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com CC: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: backing out of trailer, and stumbling fjord Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:21:52 -0700 This message is from: yvonne [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message from Yvonne olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I am from Vancouver Island, with my 5 fjords, and getting lots of time with thiem so life is good. When backing from a trailer, it takes lots of time, First get them backing well through all the training. (parelli is fantastic) My partner has encouaged me to guide them out by holding the halter to keep their angle right as they back , then let them take a step at a time, let them look back relax, then take another step, and so on till they are out, this can take a long time. (Have I said that already?) If you let them turn around, they will be less likely to back without your guidance and support. Happy trailering. I got 'Storey's guide to training horses' out of our library-Excellent book!!!, and she says that a horse that is not paying attention, or not collected, ( just not under himself? I tried to find the reference, but couldn't find it again) will often trip, and I have one of those horses. He is a lovely Drafty fella , perfect for team driving, single driving, and a great ride, but does trip once in a while. We have never fell , but I hold the reins, lightly to avoid going down with his stumble. Have fun, Yvonne The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: backing out of trailer, and stumbling fjord
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] I teach my horses to back out and use the word step when they come to the end of the trailer floor. One acquaintance would take hold of her Morgan mare's tail, and move it such that the tailbone pointed toward the step. As long as her tail was aimed backward a bit, she would back confidently; when her tail pointed down, she would slow down and start feeling for the drop-off with her hind hooves. The John Lyons magazines point out that, when training a horse to get into the trailer, one should not let the horse load all the way on the first try. It's far better to have them put one foot in, stop, stand, then back out; then two feet, stand, and back out; then 3 feet, etc. Essentially, you need to teach them HOW TO back out as well as how to load, and it's easiest when you break it down into a lot of little sub-behaviors. Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 15 mi SW of Roseburg, Oregon The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: backing out of trailer, and stumbling fjord
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have horses that did it right the first time. But with my second foal I let her free around the trailer and put an apple, first time, in about a foot or two on the floor. Did this for an occasional time and then over a period of time moved an apple forward gradually. It took about a year for me as she was young and not going anywhere. Eventually she went in all the way and, by now she knew where the ground was, so no fussing at backing out. The shocker, for her, came when I first shut the door behind her! What a racket in my prize trailer! She calmed down eventually and never had a problem after that. But then, she was a very smart girl!!! Jean Gayle Author of: 'The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
stumbling ponies
This message is from: Frederick J. Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] As to stumbling ponies: We have one mare that used to stumble. It was cured by the ferrier who put on a bent shoe I.E. more of the bottom of the hoof at the toe was trimmed off making the hoof slightly rounded at the bottom (toe further off the ground than the heel). This cured it immediately. Something to check into Fred All Mail is scanned in AND out by Norton Anti-virus 2004. Fred and Lois Pack Pack's Peak Stables Wilkeson, Washington 98396 http://www.geocities.com/friendlyfred98
Re: Archives girth strap and stumbling ponies
This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] This stumbling thing is interesting. My gelding stumbles. I'll have to consider saddle placement, as well. Cheers! Karen If you are setting the saddle over his shoulder blades, he is apt to stumble. It will impede the movement of his shoulder blade and affect hisstride.I see a lot of pictures of Fjords under saddle that have the saddles too far forward. _ Sell your car for $9 on carpoint.com.au http://www.carpoint.com.au/sellyourcar
stumbling
This message is from: Janet [EMAIL PROTECTED] the seat on the 4beat saddle, is a 'web suspended, leather ground seat' what ever that means! but seems to suggest the weight must wind up distributed somehow if the rider is not just directly on the bars. It is correct to describe this saddle not as a flexible tree, but as a flexible bar saddle. Janet
RE: Stumbling ponies
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have one of the roller style girths I used on my Percheron (when I was looking for anything that would make it easier to saddle the big girl!!). Having followed the directions that came with it, I never found it any easier to tighten than a normal Western girth. Although I certainly can't speak for your ponies, my Joe (7 year old gelding with lots of saddle time) stumbles quite a bit when he is not paying attention - regardless of whether I am riding him with a saddle or bareback, and regardless of whether he is in the ring, on the street, or on the trail. Once I get him engaged, the stumbling disappears. It is usually enough to just ask him to do some simple serpentines or switch between a trot and a walk a few times for him to register that he needs to put his brain in gear. With respect to saddles, I tried my two Aussie saddles on him (one designed for my Trakehner mare and one for my Percheron mare), and neither fit. Took some photos and his measurements to a saddler in my area who took a look and suggested that only an Arab tree would fit him, or to go with a treeless. I got a treeless saddle, and will never go back! Joe seems as comfortable in it as in his bareback pad, and the same goes for me. My trainer just tried it out last week and said she had never had a more comfortable ride (not sure if it was the saddle, or the Barca-lounger experience of riding a Fjord). although there is no tree, there is a fiberglass form in the front and over the cantle to form a secure seat; the front form has a good handwidth of space over his withers. Kate and Joe (basically, the best pony ever) -Original Message- From: Sue [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like like to know how to use a western girth strap with two rollers in one end. (It is supposed to be much easier to tighten.) We are using it but have no idea if we are using it properly. It has one roller on the outside edge and one in the center of the girth that the tying strap goes into. Also while returning back from a ride the other day, I shoved or at least tried to shove my hand under the front of the saddle. The blasted saddle was sitting right down on Peppins body. Absolutely no clearance! I tried a thicker pad...same thing. Is this what everyone is talking about Fjords being hard to fit with a saddle? Luckily, I had another old saddle here with a higher tree.now I have lots of clearance. Does a tight saddle like the former impede the way a horse moves? Peppin and Storm are both stumbling quite a bit when we are on their backs but do fine under harness. Neither pony has had all that much time under the saddle. Are they stumbling because they have to learn balance while carrying a rider?...or are they just gloming for leaves and not paying attention. Both Fjord Ponies are shod. One is a six year old and the other 4. Would ring work on a smooth terrain help these guys or should we practice them walking and then trotting over poles. The trail is very rough in places and even though we are just walking them, they stumble frequently. Otherwise we are having a great time riding, as both ponies are wonderful. Randy's Storm is much livelier but that suits him just fine. Peppin, from Deere Country Fjords (John and Eunice Bosomworth), is very quiet and loveable...much like going for a ride on an overgrown dog. I love him! Hope everyone is enjoying the fall season. I haven't had time to read much of the digests latelyso am attempting to catch up now. If anyone has any ideas for me re pony, girth and saddle, I would much appreciate them. Happy trails, Sue in N.B. (Storm and Peppin's mom)
Re: stumbling horses
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just Looked at the 4-beat. In the FAQ's it says that the tree has solid wood cantle and pommel..but the bars are rubber. Not good, in my opinion. A solid tree, properly shaped and fitted to the horse, will support the rider, spread the weight. those flexible bars will sore the horse. There ARE some totally flexible trees on the market. The Boz saddles have a totally flexible tree.. for one. I am not sure if this would work well. The flex panel saddles such as Ortho-Flex, etc.have solid trees with flexible panels attached.. The Treeless or half treesaddles such as the Bob Marshall Sport saddle seems to work for some riders.. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, nice fall day again. 65 degrees I was wondering if anyone has tried a 4 beat saddle on a fjord? http://gaitsofgold.com/new/content/category/4/23/88/ I know that this saddle was designed for the gaited horse, but in some ways fjords share some common problems with gaited breeds. A lot of gaited horses have a low withers, and round short back. This saddle is treeless, or built on flexible pannels instead of a tree. It also puts the heels slightly ahead of the hips, a possition I find much more comfortable for all day rides. anyone out there have one? janet
stumbling horses
This message is from: Janet [EMAIL PROTECTED] I sure would suspect saddle fit as the root cause of stumbling, esp if the same horse does not stumble in harness and all other possibilities have been examined. I am fortunate to occaisionally ride with a lady who gives seminars on saddle fit, and she showed me how my saddle was putting pressure on my mare's shoulder and causing her stumbling. I was wondering if anyone has tried a 4 beat saddle on a fjord? http://gaitsofgold.com/new/content/category/4/23/88/ I know that this saddle was designed for the gaited horse, but in some ways fjords share some common problems with gaited breeds. A lot of gaited horses have a low withers, and round short back. This saddle is treeless, or built on flexible pannels instead of a tree. It also puts the heels slightly ahead of the hips, a possition I find much more comfortable for all day rides. anyone out there have one? janet
Re: Archives girth strap and stumbling ponies
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you are setting the saddle over his shoulder blades, he is apt to stumble. It will impede the movement of his shoulder blade and affect his stride.I see a lot of pictures of Fjords under saddle that have the saddles too far forward. I did it myself when I first got my mare Stella, as it seemed the only way the saddle would appear to fit. It must have really hurt, she was barn sour, obstinate, etc. ...until I got an Ortho-flex saddle and got off her shoulders. What a difference! I think the low round withers tempt folks to place the saddle way too far forward. Take a look oat some of the pictures in the Herald, on the website, etc. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, still pretty with gold leaves on the trees and ground! 60 degrees. 06:47 PM 9/16/2005 -0300, you wrote: Are they stumbling because they have to learn balance while carrying a rider?...or are they just gloming for leaves and not paying attention. Both Fjord Ponies are shod. One is a six year old and the other 4. Would ring work on a smooth terrain help these guys or should we practice them walking and then trotting over poles. The trail is very rough in places and even though we are just walking them, they stumble frequently.
Re: stumbling
This message is from: Susan Felix [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Sheri, I had the same problem with my Arabian Mare 6 yrs ago, sorry to say she passed on. They tried all the same things and she did not have EPM. She had a tumor on her pituitary gland in her brain. CSU here in Colorado Neuro did some blood tests and it happend so fast there was nothing they could really do. How long has she had this and is there a Equine Med school like CSU that can step in ? Hope this info helps and gives them something to go on. Susan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: stumbling
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/30/00 3:40:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My Riba stumbled a lot at age 3, very little at 4, never at 5. I think some is the trim and some is maturity and getting used to her body. Might be different for other horses, but don't despair of a young 'un. Ida never did stumble, at 2, 3 or 4. Riba's head and neck are set higher up than Ida's, making her look taller although they're about the same. Ida seems more athletic and loves to run and buck and canter, all by herself. Gail in Las Cruces
Thoughts About Stumbling
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just came back from my think tank. You remember, when I'm cleaning stalls is my best thinking time. And I thought of all the posts several months running about stumbling fjords. Here are the thoughts I came up with. In my massive experience with horses (tongue in cheek), the horses I've had stumble on me have been one of two types. The first is the young horse, who is just not balanced with a rider on his back. The second is the horse who is built downhill. Seems they stumble once every time around the arena. Wouldn't the way to approach these problems be this: the young horse, you just keep things very simple, basic, don't ask too much till the horse knows how to balance with a rider. And do lots of (but don't overdo either) cavaletti work. With the horse who is built downhill, would it not help him to have him driving from his hind end, bringing his forehand up? I think it would be next to impossible to stumble if the horse had his rear engaged. Just some thoughts. Pamela Who's lucky to have horses that don't stumble these days!
Re: stumbling age
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] My son Todd started walking when he was nine months and fell for six, he would fall like a tree, not putting his hands out to catch himself, I was such a hiper first time Mom I would follow him with pillows and when he stopped lay them all over the floor, untill my husband mentioned that was probably what was making him fall. This has nothing to do w ith the horses, its a slow day and I was remembering. . I recall teenage brothers that weren't too graceful when they were growing up quickly. I was hoping it was just age, and it seems to have been.
Re: stumbling age
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My 4 1/2-year-old mare, Riba, stumbled when she was 3, but she doesn't now. Ida, who is almost 4, never stumbled. I recall teenage brothers that weren't too graceful when they were growing up quickly. I was hoping it was just age, and it seems to have been.
Re: Stumbling
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carol, I also am amazed that you have never seen a Fjordhorse that stumbles with a rider. I saw it several times at the Libby show last year - nothing spectacular, just a caught toe here and there. I must agree though that most do not stumble - I always thought that Line stumbled because of her age, her constant pregnancy, and her HUGE feet. She even does it running around the field being silly. She never falls, just catches her toes and then catches her balance by nodding her head. Mary, What I said in my posting was that I've never seen a Fjord stumble to his knees, or go head over heels as has been reported. -- Yes, of course, I've seen the kind of stumbling you talk about . . . but certainly not on a regular basis with any of our horses, or any other horses I'm familiar with, here or in Holland. That kind of occasional stumble happens in every breed. The point of my posting was to say that I totally disagree with the idea that stumbling is a Fjord thing. My goodness, if that were true then the Fjord could not be considered a riding horse. --- I wonder what Gayle Ware has to say about this, as the kind of riding she does requires an agile, adept horse. Mary, your posting about aged mares ovulating after going out of heat was extremely interesting and valuable information. I'd never heard that, but will definitely keep it in mind. Thank you very much for sharing that. PS - Thanks to this List, we've been giving our pregnant mares a tea made with red raspberry leaves. The first mare to foal had a REALLY good colt. Holly foaled him extremely fast and easily. The colt was a huge size, very well formed, and extremely vigorous. Whether this is due to the tea, who knows? Regards, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: My 2 cents on Stumbling
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay Carol then how do you explain the tripping, falling and stumbling of so many fjords. And yes I also do not want to think it is a fjord thing but it happens. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, Wa. -Original Message- From: Arthur Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 4:52 PM Subject: Re: My 2 cents on Stumbling This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - We've been raising and training Fjords for going on twenty years. We've imported over 100 Fjords, many of them adult horses that we've put in immediate work and competition riding and driving. I've been to many big shows in Holland. Some of them had 600 Fjords showing, and I never saw even one of those horses stumbling, much less falling down with a rider, or hitched to a carriage. We've trained a lot of Fjordhorses for clients.
Re: My 2 cents on Stumbling
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - We've been raising and training Fjords for going on twenty years. We've imported over 100 Fjords, many of them adult horses that we've put in immediate work and competition riding and driving. I've been to many big shows in Holland. Some of them had 600 Fjords showing, and I never saw even one of those horses stumbling, much less falling down with a rider, or hitched to a carriage. We've trained a lot of Fjordhorses for clients. We almost always train on our cross-country courses, which are hills and natural, uneven terrain. Even our ring is fairly rough -- pockmarked with use. I've got to say that in all this time with all these Fjords, we've NEVER had a horse go down on us. And, frankly, I've rarely seen one of our riding horses stumble. And the same goes for driving. I just don't understand all this talk of stumbling. And I absolutely do not agree that it is a Fjord thing. From my years of experience, I can say Fjords are as sure-footed as any other breed. --- Actually, as horses bred for the mountains of west coast Norway, I've always heard that one of their proclaimed breed characteristics is - surefootedness. Months ago, there was a long discussion on the Digest about the difficulty many Fjords have in cantering. At that time, I said that the Fjords I'm familiar with do not have difficulty with the canter. I suggested that it might be the heavier types that find the canter difficult because of being physically heavier in the forehand. --- Several people took exception to that. As a promoter of this wonderful, versatile breed, I really don't like reading that it's a Fjord thing to stumble, fall down, and go head over heels with a rider. I don't like it because I don't believe for a minute that it is a breed characteristic. Well . . . my 2 cents worth. Best Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re[2]: stumbling
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ruthie-- Wednesday, May 05, 1999, you wrote: I've been chicken to try the new chat room... I guess the word enabled did it.. if my computer needs expertise assistance I might not be able. How's it going I'm wondering? Does that account for the decline in e-mail or has the weather gotten to you too? Don't be chicken. Java enabled just means that you need a browser that is at least version 3.0 for both Netscape and Internet Explorer. Also you need to have Java turned on, something that I believe is the default setting. So unless you've turned Java off, or have a very old browser, you can do it. And even if your setup isn't capable, the chat room will politely tell you so. I can see some traffic coming to my home page from the chat page, so I guess some folks are checking it out. -- Steve McIlree Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA Noblest of the train that wait on man, the flight-performing horse. --William Cowper(1731-1800)
Re: stumbling/ spring weather?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 5/5/99 8:09:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I guess we should be thankful we don't get tornados here! but we did have a couple really wild dust devils here a week ago which ripped up several greenhouses built of metal poles and plastic sheeting. They also sent a stack of styrofoam sheets sailing all over the neighborhood. What IS this wild weather? Hi Jean- We had this, too! At the stable in Woodside, the hay dust was spinning around like a mini-twister. I have NEVER seen this in my area before! Brigid
Re: stumbling/ spring weather?
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I guess I shouldn't feel too bad, 20 degrees here too this morning and another dusting of snow after a wild weekend with 6 inches of wet snow mixed with rain. Hey, guess it's no better in Montana or Idaho! (I've been looking at the on-line Realtors pages again) Most of the weekend snow is gone at my house but ten miles out the road my friends who got 8-10 inches last weekend still have 4-5 inches of the stuff. We had hoped to begin serious riding by now! I guess we should be thankful we don't get tornados here! but we did have a couple really wild dust devils here a week ago which ripped up several greenhouses built of metal poles and plastic sheeting. They also sent a stack of styrofoam sheets sailing all over the neighborhood. What IS this wild weather? The weatherman says it's going to warm up by the weekend so maybe spring WILL get here sometime! I'm Ready! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, 17:22 hours of daylight, sunrise 5:05 am, sunset at 10:30 pm Mary, I wish it would be back to Montana but if you could see the weather this morning you would never consider ita skiff of snow and 20 degrees What is with this strnnngge weather?! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: stumbling
This message is from: Bushnell's [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh well, maybe we will move after we retire - ha, ha! Mary, I wish it would be back to Montana but if you could see the weather this morning you would never consider ita skiff of snow and 20 degrees What is with this strnnngge weather?! Hear the rest of the Inland Empire is having some unusual spring weather as well though, makes me glad Teal is foaling late this year.. June 11th is due day, surely it will be warmer by then? I've been chicken to try the new chat room... I guess the word enabled did it.. if my computer needs expertise assistance I might not be able. How's it going I'm wondering? Does that account for the decline in e-mail or has the weather gotten to you too? Ruthie Bushnell, NW MT
Re: stumbling
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do not think carriage horses do this do they? In other words perhaps these stumblers would do better at being driven? Jean, I have not observed very many stumbling carriage horses. Possibly it has to do with the fact that they are not trying to balance a rider's weight as well as their own. My Line is terribly stumble footed when ridden, but only stumbles occasionally when being driven. It's forgiveable though, considering her age. Naaman has mentioned that he thinks Fred's horse would make a better driving than riding horse because of his build. I agree, but unfortunately we have basically nowhere to drive a young horse around here. I would never trust them out on the road when young, and that is all we have here - unless I'm working them on logs and such, which I also will only do with an older horse. I value my life too much. Oh well, maybe we will move after we retire - ha, ha! Mary === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
stumbling
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mary, arrant we lucky to have Naaman, a great ferrier. He also observed that horses close in front (legs) narrow chested will knock a knee out with the other leg on a turn. So round pen or on the circle it could be the opposite knee hitting the other leg. As I looked back at Howdie's stumbling everytime, except when he and I went down, he was on a circle. He was narrow chested. the time he went down with me I am sure he stepped on a rock because I had him balanced and we were on a straight path. I would never let children ride him after the nine year old went down with him. I do not think carriage horses do this do they? In other words perhaps these stumblers would do better at being driven? Jean Gayle Aberdeen Wa
Re: Stumbling
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] . We had this discussion about six months ago and many of us decided it is a fjord thing. Two things, have your ferrier do a wild horse trim, The toes are squared off so there is a quick break-over for the front feet.. Second, ride with him on the bit, this keeps him balanced and paying attention and off the fore. We have the same farrier as Jean does. He does a wild horse trim (square toes) on our Fjords as well - plus he always rounds the edges off on their feet so there are no sharp corners to catch. My Fjord is short and stocky with pretty high action in the front. I've only had him stumble once with me. However, his dam and granddam will stumble over a pebble! They have heavier legs, so that may be why - but I suspect it is more inattention. My husband's horse is a long, tall Fjord with medium to heavy bones in his legs. He is quite close in the front, since he is still young. He will go down at a moments' notice, because he is very uncollected most of the time. This is his second year under saddle and we have begun to be able to control this some - by keeping him trimmed short (square those toes front and back) and keeping him focussed and on the bit (a cute trick when you ride Western). We find the biggest problem comes in the transition down to the trot from the canter. If you don't collect the horse up (push him into the bridle) and get YOUR weight back off his front end, he will put all his weight onto his front end as he comes down into the trot - stumbling on his toes (or actually knocking a knee out from under himself with the opposite foot) and going down on his nose. Not fun, as sometimes they then do a summersault depending on how much forward momentum they were carrying! If he is collected up, ie. paying attention, and the rider's weight is back off his shoulders (don't lean forward when coming down, lean back slightly) he has no problem at all. This horse has good natural extension in the trot and a very nice slow canter with good front leg action, so he is clearing the ground nicely when he is in stride, it is in the transition down that he gets his front feet and legs all out of sync if he isn't paying close attention. I have never seen him do this when he is out in the pasture, only in the round pen - either ridden or just being worked from the ground - when his attention is on something else other than what he is supposed to be doing. If he is fighting the rider during transition - pulling on the bit, or throwing his nose out - he will stumble, guaranteed. So we handle it by keeping him trimmed and keeping his attention, plus paying attention to where OUR weight is on his back. It is easy to get sloppy in a Western saddle which feels so secure. Hope this helps. Good luck. Mary PS. Our farrier was satisfied with our horses' feet and their trims too - until he saw my husband's horse go down and do a summersault with the trainer! The farrier was standing right there and saw exactly what happened. He took the horse out of the arena, squared and bevelled his toes, and then sent him back in to try the same maneuver again - with decidedly different results - much to everyone's relief! That is why I always ride or work the horse in hand for the farrier now if I am trying to explain a problem to him that might be corrected by different trimming. He needs to SEE what is happening and how the horse is travelling on his feet. === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Stumbling and Farm work
This message is from: john martie bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks to everyone on the farm-working suggestions! Kilar is very strong. My trainer/instructor thinks that pound for pound he is stronger than her Percherons. But of course, being so much smaller she has no idea just how much horse power I can expect from him. I will try the Small Farm Journal and talk to some people in Lancaster PA about 'smaller' forecarts and how they use them with their 'small' Belgians. Fetching the hay may not be a good idea. There is a pretty good hill coming home loaded with hay. Or maybe I can just make 4 trips instead of the current 2 with the pickup truck. My husband can't understand why I would like to do the work with the horse, since it is so much faster to do it with the tractor/truck. But he doesn't really care to spend hours playing with the horses either. About stumbling; Kilar stumbles once in a while trail riding if he is NOT in front. He doesn't pay attention unless he is on 'lookout'. An attention deficit thing, I guess. But I would advise anyone with a stumbling problem to get a vet's opinion. I had a quarter horse that stumbled and just kept having the farrier try different things with him. He had EPM and by the time I finally got it diagnosed he was pretty far gone. He will probably never recover completely. thanks again, Martie, John and Kilar
Fw: Stumbling
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Stumbling I feel you are too negative on this issue. My Howdie was trained to do it all. Once he had his toes squared and I kept him balanced, on the bit, we never had a problem. I would not want to risk a fall at my age. He was 14.1 slender build, but heavy up front. What did you do with the horses you say tripped so much? I think it is also important to point out that you rarely see a Fjord trip when out in the pasture, unless like all horses he is ready for a trim. I do not use shoes on my horses unless we are going to be trail riding. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Stumbling This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Kate, I am a Fjord owner that has experienced the stumbling that you discussed. After checking with vets and a very experienced farrier, we came to this conclusion. You can help a lot by proper shoeing, but it really is a conformation issue. The horse that stumbles a lot tends to be straighter in the pastern, and this coupled with a lot of weight that they can carry
Re: Stumbling
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I feel you are too negative on this issue. My Howdie was trained to do it all. Once he had his toes squared and I kept him balanced, on the bit, we never had a problem. I would not want to risk a fall at my age. He was 14.1 slender build, but heavy up front. What did you do with the horses you say tripped so much? I think it is also important to point out that you rarely see a Fjord trip when out in the pasture, unless like all horses he is ready for a trim. I do not use shoes on my horses unless we are going to be trail riding. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Stumbling This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Kate, I am a Fjord owner that has experienced the stumbling that you discussed. After checking with vets and a very experienced farrier, we came to this conclusion. You can help a lot by proper shoeing, but it really is a conformation issue. The horse that stumbles a lot tends to be straighter in the pastern, and this coupled with a lot of weight that they can carry
stumbling fjords...
This message is from: Ingrid Ivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use Baldur in my school program. In the indoor he is very sure footed, jumping close to 3 feet. Outside is another matter. He stumbles constantly. Hello Kate... I have to agree with Jean G. and Bonnie Hif his feet are in tip top shape, it's probably a focusing on the work at hand type of thing. Work on riding him on the bit and in balance, trying to keep his attention on you. I find with our fjords, they bore easily and we need to vary the routine often. They tend to zone out after the twentieth time around the arena, doing the same thing. This usually happens here, when the younger nieces and nephews come for lessons and we need to go slow, doing repetetive things, till they gain muscle tone and balance. You can see it on the fjord's face and in the way they start moving their body...sleepy time! They are so willing to put in their time with the kids, but are just plain bored to pieces. Seems the best part for them is afterwards...the hugs and kisses and treats! I can't say it's totally a fjord thing about the tripping and such, had a QH that scared the begeebies out of me at first, when working outdoors. In an indoor arena he was fine. He was trained western originally, but I threw in a little dressage after owning him for awhile...seemed to help him gain self carriage, getting his weight off the forehand...no more pushing peanuts on the ground with his nose. Wouldn't trade our fjords for anything though...they are so inventive (ie: smart). They make ME think more. Wishing you the best of luck...Ingrid :o)
Re: Stumbling
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Kate. We had a gelding that stumbled alot for no apparent reason. The vet checked him out and said that he had a neurological deficit of the peripheral nervous system, which is vetspeak for I don't know but I want to sound like I do. We tried lots of things, but what finally helped was to shoe him with rolled toes. This causes him to breakover more quickly, and get that foot off the ground more effectively. Since Baldur only trips outside, on grass, it sounds like he might be hanging a toe in the grass, which trips him up. Do try a rolled toe (if he is barefoot, the farrier can trim him that way, too - but a shoe is more efficient.) Good luck with Baldur, please let us know how he gets along. Jan
Re: Stumbling
This message is from: B. Hendricks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Kate: Here's my two cents... it sounds to me like he is getting distracted and not focusing on the business at hand. Maybe he just needs to spend more time out there and get used to the sights and sounds? Bonnie Hendricks Gallery Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html -
Re: Stumbling
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 6:36 PM Subject: Stumbling This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Kate, My Howdie tripped and went down with three or four people and once with me at a full trot. We had this discussion about six months ago and many of us decided it is a fjord thing. Two things, have your ferrier do a wild horse trim, The toes are squared off so there is a quick break-over for the front feet.. Second, ride with him on the bit, this keeps him balanced and paying attention and off the fore. Because they are heavy in front they are often clutsy when preoccupied. Outside the smallest dip or bump can catch a toe. Yes it is scary, i had my boy go down, outside, in a canter with a 9 year old. We had all noted that he seemed asleep and certainly not paying attention. thats when my ferrier paid attention and cropped thos toes. Good luck Jean Gayle Aberdeen, Wa.
Stumbling
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List! I want to say how much I enjoy reading all the great info you all have about Fjords. I have only been in contact with my Baldur, but have fallen in love with this breed completely. Here's my question... I use Baldur in my school program. In the indoor he is very sure footed, jumping close to 3 feet. Outside is another matter. He stumbles constantly. Today was the worst one yet. He almost went head over heels and did step on the students hand in the process of their fall. She is ok, thank God! Nothing broken. Baldur is fine too, I always worry about his knees when he trips. It is mostly in the trot...when he gets quick and distracted. The footing outside is sand/grass. Not deep at all. Is this a common Fjord thing? It has gotten a bit scary and I know it scares Baldur. Could there be something physically wrong with him? The farrier is happy with his feet, they were done last week and he is not kept long in the toe. He is a stocky build (short legs, big body). I'm at my wits end here...he scared the heck outa me today Thanks! Kate
