RE: Oops - Orthoflex Saddle
This message is from: Gail Russell How old is it? The values of the Orthoflex saddles vary depending upon the vintage. Gail To clarify, I have an Orthoflex Patriot saddle that I'm willing to part Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re oops and sorry
This message is from: "jgayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry, thought I had sent that email directly to Linda. Not to the list. Jean Gayle Author of: 'The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Oops....
This message is from: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Kelly, I thank you - Erlend thanks you. Peg www.horsehumor.net www.fairpoint.net/~kffjord/ - Original Message - From: "kelly MacDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 3:30 AM Subject: RE: Oops This message is from: "kelly MacDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I love that video. The commentary is great, and the editing is awesome. I showed it to my entire family last night :) Erlend is beautiful!! From: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: Oops Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:44:52 -0800 This message is from: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry, Doug found that our 'Erlend showing off' video on you tube has audio on it from the tape we made for mare owners. We took a small portion of the mare video for this video. He is in the process of re-loading it now. Please be patient, we are novices at uploading for you tube. Thanks, Peg Knutsen www.horsehumor.net www.fairpoint.net/~kffjord/ The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw _ Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you ! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Oops....
This message is from: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Way cool! Peg www.horsehumor.net www.fairpoint.net/~kffjord/ - Original Message - From: "Reena Giola" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 5:16 AM Subject: Re: Oops This message is from: "Reena Giola" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ah yes, I played it at home and while we were shopping at Best Buy looking at the computer and the wide screens, one of the computers was connected to the internet, so guess what I called up?! you guessed it! Erlend's Video!! Reena This message is from: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry, Doug found that our 'Erlend showing off' video on you tube has audio on it from the tape we made for mare owners. We took a small portion of the mare video for this video. He is in the process of re-loading it now. Please be patient, we are novices at uploading for you tube. Thanks, Peg Knutsen www.horsehumor.net www.fairpoint.net/~kffjord/ The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw _ Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you ! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Oops....
This message is from: "Reena Giola" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ah yes, I played it at home and while we were shopping at Best Buy looking at the computer and the wide screens, one of the computers was connected to the internet, so guess what I called up?! you guessed it! Erlend's Video!! Reena This message is from: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry, Doug found that our 'Erlend showing off' video on you tube has audio on it from the tape we made for mare owners. We took a small portion of the mare video for this video. He is in the process of re-loading it now. Please be patient, we are novices at uploading for you tube. Thanks, Peg Knutsen www.horsehumor.net www.fairpoint.net/~kffjord/ The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw _ Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you ! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: Oops....
This message is from: "kelly MacDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I love that video. The commentary is great, and the editing is awesome. I showed it to my entire family last night :) Erlend is beautiful!! From: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: Oops Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:44:52 -0800 This message is from: "Douglas Knutsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry, Doug found that our 'Erlend showing off' video on you tube has audio on it from the tape we made for mare owners. We took a small portion of the mare video for this video. He is in the process of re-loading it now. Please be patient, we are novices at uploading for you tube. Thanks, Peg Knutsen www.horsehumor.net www.fairpoint.net/~kffjord/ The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw _ Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you ! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: oops forgot link
This message is from: bolinsj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jean, Sorry, no credit card at this time. We had trouble with our paypal account and had to disable it. Will try to re-instate it once paypal assures us the problem is solved. Meanwhile, check is fine. Just let me know how many you'd like and I'll send them. sorry for the inconvenience, but hackers hack. Martie in MD Jean Ernest wrote: >This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Martie, can we buy the Calendars On-line with a credit card? > >Jean in Alaska, cloudy and warm and lots of gnats!
Re: oops forgot link
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Martie, can we buy the Calendars On-line with a credit card? Jean in Alaska, cloudy and warm and lots of gnats! >This message is from: bolinsj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Forgot to include my link to the Fjord sales items. sorry, > >http://bolinsj.tripod.com/twinoaksgraphics > >Martie in MD
RE: Oops
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry, i forgot to change the subject line for my post re. Frank Hannesschlager's passing; guess I am a little strung out, tired and griefy... _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: Oops - Pardon my Ditto!
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PPSS!! Sorry!!! Just as my finger hit the send button, I was horrified to see that I had posted the message w/o a subject, dooming my message to be lost forever in the Heap of Anon. OK - NOW I am going to bed. Nite all... Original Message Follows Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 05:08:56 - This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Hear Ye!...Hear Ye!!Hear Ye!!! _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: Oops...
This message is from: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> dear peg, how about CEWPID. it rhymes with "stewpid" which i am sure, you are not!!! denise > This message is from: "Knutsen Fjord Farm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Now I reely feel stewpid! I won't be in Colorado Springs next week, the > seminar is in Fort Collins. Like, where the Veterinary School is, not the > Air Force Academy. So Beth and Sandy, don't come to C. Springs, OK?
Re: Oops, tripping, etc.
This message is from: "Starfire Farm, LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Alison Barr wrote: > Do we really need to breed for riding? It seems to me > that they are already there! We have several sizes and shapes of fjords at our farm at the moment. A few are built "uphill", have withers (good for holding the saddle on) have beautiful, but not extravagant trots, and have no problem cantering. One gelding, which I would say is leaning towards the "draft" type, is very tall (at least 15.1h) but incredibly athletic. He's beautiful to watch both at the trot and the canter. As for fjord type, there's no question that he's a fjord. The only thing I would change about him is that he has a relatively small eye and a coarse head (something I've seen in a number of "draft type" fjords.) We also have a couple of mares who are unquestionably fjord type, but are not as "uphill" as the males mentioned earlier. Interestingly enough, these horses tend to trip more and have a bit more trouble with the canter. They are athletic, but it's just not as easy for them to get their forehands off the ground. Good "riding type" horses should have withers and should be built slightly "uphill" to allow for a good saddle fit, and to make the ride more comfortable. That doesn't mean that you have to change the type! Good conversation! Keep it up! Beth -- Beth Beymer & Sandy North Starfire Farm, Berthoud CO www.starfirefarm.com
Re: Oops
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Warm bloods were raised for battle, carriage, pleasure, show you name it. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes & Noble Book Stores
Re: Oops
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 01/09/2000 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Just a little reminder that the warmbloods we think of as dressage > horses often have trouble with canter, they are often just bred for the trot. > On the same note, the warmbloods were bred to pull plows...NOT for riding. It seems to me that many of the breeds designed for pulling have "issues" with canter. Probably b/c they never HAD to canter before. Who canters and pulls a plow at the same time? Kate in CT mom to Baldur
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Phil is sending me a hard copy of the article, which I'll be glad to have in my files. He said the Fjord is a very interesting breed. I agree Thought I'd pick up a bag of potato chips and see if that will help my problem... HA!! Bonnie Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Mike May, Registrar NFHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 2:37 PM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > At 06:17 PM 5/24/99 -0800, you wrote: > >This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Bonnie, > > > >Phillip Sponenberg, who you say is a friend of yours, wrote an article on > >"Color in Fjord horses" for the Fjord Herald, Issue #21/22, winter /Spring > >1992. Perhaps Mike has it handy and could copy it and put it on the NFHR > >website. Sponenberg explains the variations in detail. Since you're a > >friend of his, perhaps you could also get a copy of the article from him. > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 03:44 PM 5/25/99 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I find this a bit incredible!! WHY did we translate it to mean "white dun" in the first place, when it does not? Ulsdun, as explained to me by David Klove, means "wool dun" or "wool colored dun". This makes perfect sense to me, as a sheep is not truly white - wool is cream colored, not white. So a "wool dun" is not "white", but creamy. I think we might have short circuited a lot of misunderstanding had we used the right translation in the first place. This was setup way back long before my time I am afraid. I am not sure just who was involved in describing the colors here in North America. Strangely enough though it seems like all of the registries use the same terms. I always refer to Line as "ulsdun" or "wool dun", not white. She, and other Ulsdun horses, are NOT white, they are creamy or wool colored. A "kvit" or "white" Fjord is just that - white. Well perhaps "Wool Dun" would be a better term for them but it would still need an explanation if you had never seen one. What is the bloodline of this mare, Lin? Is she imported, or NA stock? She is imported. Here is her Pedigree: LIN N-14521 N-U-101-M Foaled January 1, 1981 Bred by GABRIEL NAERLAND, NAERBO, NORWAY SAFIR N-1490 HOSAR N-1717 METTE N-12952 HAUGULL N-1821 RANDAR N-1489 LILLI N-13848 NELLI f.1936 TORBJORN N-1417 ERNAR N-1595 EDUNN N-12269 VESLEMOY b f.1977 LUNAR N-1518 LENDA f.1960 TURI N-8694 === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > No this horse is registered as an albino. A white > dun has a black stripe > and sometimes some zebra stripes. This one > apparently has no noticeable > dorsal stripe at all. It probably shouldn't be > called an albino to be > technically correct from all of this discussion. > The Norwegians ulsblakk > is what we translate to White Dun. They did > question this in our Breed > Standard. I am now thinking it is because of the > "White" being what this > "Albino" is to them. We kept the "White Dun" term > because to most > Americans Ulsblakk or Uls Dun would not mean > anything. I find this a bit incredible!! WHY did we translate it to mean "white dun" in the first place, when it does not? Ulsdun, as explained to me by David Klove, means "wool dun" or "wool colored dun". This makes perfect sense to me, as a sheep is not truly white - wool is cream colored, not white. So a "wool dun" is not "white", but creamy. I think we might have short circuited a lot of misunderstanding had we used the right translation in the first place. I always refer to Line as "ulsdun" or "wool dun", not white. She, and other Ulsdun horses, are NOT white, they are creamy or wool colored. A "kvit" or "white" Fjord is just that - white. Line has lost some of her creamy color as she ages, and is becoming more white in her main coat, but her face remains "uls". This is just a factor of age I'm sure, as I have only noticed it the last couple of years. > Well this is the only one that I know of in the US. > It was by the way out > of Modellen & Lin. They are both White Dun (with a > black stripe). What is the bloodline of this mare, Lin? Is she imported, or NA stock? Mary === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wow, sure a pretty little guy! Bonnie Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Mike May, Registrar NFHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 2:37 PM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks, Mike: I'm getting a good education here. The Fjord is one of the most interesting breeds, to me. Bonnie Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Mike May, Registrar NFHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:24 PM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > At 02:46 PM 5/24/99 +, you wrote: > >This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Hi Mike: > > >I'd sure like to see photos of this animal. Also, my friend Phil Sponenberg > >could sure pinpoint his color if I had some pictures to send to him (author > >of Horse Color Genetics). > > I will scan the picture I have but it is of a pretty young horse. It does > show a pink color nose though. > > > > Mike > > > > > === > > Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry > Mike May, Registrar > Voice 716-872-4114 > FAX 716-787-0497 > > http://www.nfhr.com > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >It is on the web site right now. I had to scan it into 2 .pdf files >though. Thanks, Mike! Much easier than me taking apart the Fjord Herald and scanning it on my sheet feeder scanner and now everybody can see it! >I also scanned in the picture of FG LUNA. I made it rather large so you >could scroll around it to get more detail. You can see the pink nose & >blue eyes even. Here is the link: Click on the "A Rare White Fjord - FG LUNA" Great picture! Sure, he is a bit dirty (when ARE these "whites' ever clean?) but it sure shows the blue eyes and pink nose. AND it really proves what they found out about breeding two white duns to each other...You get a blue eyed white! And I bet Sponenberg would call this a cremello or maybe a smokey cream or perlino. I'd sure like to see a picture of him all grown up and just bathed! Mike, are you getting the pictures I'm scanning and sending? How do they look? OK? If so I will send some more, of Adel and Stella, And Anvil's Stellalite, another full sister of Adel's. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, Partly cloudy and showers, sun came up before 4:00 AM and goes down near midnight! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 06:17 PM 5/24/99 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bonnie, Phillip Sponenberg, who you say is a friend of yours, wrote an article on "Color in Fjord horses" for the Fjord Herald, Issue #21/22, winter /Spring 1992. Perhaps Mike has it handy and could copy it and put it on the NFHR website. Sponenberg explains the variations in detail. Since you're a friend of his, perhaps you could also get a copy of the article from him. It is on the web site right now. I had to scan it into 2 .pdf files though. So it is on the same page with all of the .pfd files. You need the Adobe Acrobat Reader to view these files. If you don't have it, you can get it right from the NFHR web site - Just click on the button for it. Here is the link to the files. You will have to scroll down a bit. http://www.nfhr.com/newsinfo.html#Documents I also scanned in the picture of FG LUNA. I made it rather large so you could scroll around it to get more detail. You can see the pink nose & blue eyes even. Here is the link: Click on the "A Rare White Fjord - FG LUNA" http://www.nfhr.com/gallery.html or http://www.nfhr.com/gallery/FG%20LUNA.jpg Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 02:46 PM 5/24/99 +, you wrote: This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Mike: Well, I don't know how they call them in the Fjord family - I don't know if the Fjord has a classification for "white" other than to call him a "white dun." Dun however, does have some color. If the horse was that so far unfound true albino, his eyes would be red (showing the blood in the vessels) just like a white rabbit. Since his eyes are blue, he's either a white horse (which should be very rare in the Fjord) or maybe the registry would call him a white dun, dunno. No this horse is registered as an albino. A white dun has a black stripe and sometimes some zebra stripes. This one apparently has no noticeable dorsal stripe at all. It probably shouldn't be called an albino to be technically correct from all of this discussion. The Norwegians ulsblakk is what we translate to White Dun. They did question this in our Breed Standard. I am now thinking it is because of the "White" being what this "Albino" is to them. We kept the "White Dun" term because to most Americans Ulsblakk or Uls Dun would not mean anything. What really surprises me, is that there is a true white in the Fjord. I didn't know they carried that gene. Well this is the only one that I know of in the US. It was by the way out of Modellen & Lin. They are both White Dun (with a black stripe). In any case, to me this horse should be considered very rare, even if he's not the favorite color of Fjord breeders. On the other hand, if he ends up classified as a "white dun" than he is very rare and desirable? He is very rare. He is the only one we have. I'd sure like to see photos of this animal. Also, my friend Phil Sponenberg could sure pinpoint his color if I had some pictures to send to him (author of Horse Color Genetics). I will scan the picture I have but it is of a pretty young horse. It does show a pink color nose though. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "Mark and Lisa K. McGinley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "B. Hendricks" wrote: > This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi: > I'm not sure what a "Merle" is... my dog was a blue/black and white > Australian Shepherd You had a "Blue Merle" Mark
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jean: I'll write to Phil and get a copy of his article. The last seven years have been real hectic for me and I've missed out on a lot. I have both of his books, and while I've "nosed" through them, haven't had a chance to sit down and just read. I'm interested also in asking Phil some other questions that come to mind regarding the duns in the Fjord breed, and what is found in others, as the white or lighter hair fringe on the mane and tail is absent in many other cases, i.e., Quarter Horse, Konik (which is almost always grullo) and etc. I see some differences in the dun horses in the Akhal-Teke breed too, as they have the dorsal stripe but don't seem to have the barring on the legs. Interesting things to ponder! Bonnie P.S. I don't know that I would term any dun a "true dun" and another not a "true dun." To me, a dun is a dun, and they come in lots of shades and variations. A buckskin, however, without the stripes, is not a dun in the sense that the label is used, though it is certainly dun in color. Ha - how's that for making sense? Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 2:17 AM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Bonnie, > > Phillip Sponenberg, who you say is a friend of yours, wrote an article on > "Color in Fjord horses" for the Fjord Herald, Issue #21/22, winter /Spring > 1992. Perhaps Mike has it handy and could copy it and put it on the NFHR > website. Sponenberg explains the variations in detail. Since you're a > friend of his, perhaps you could also get a copy of the article from him.
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bonnie, Phillip Sponenberg, who you say is a friend of yours, wrote an article on "Color in Fjord horses" for the Fjord Herald, Issue #21/22, winter /Spring 1992. Perhaps Mike has it handy and could copy it and put it on the NFHR website. Sponenberg explains the variations in detail. Since you're a friend of his, perhaps you could also get a copy of the article from him. In this article Sponenberg states: (he refers to line backed duns as "zebra duns") [Quote] "In addition to zebra vs mouse vs red duns, some fjord horses also have the palomino gene. This one is interesting in that it barely betrays itself in most instanaces. The palomino (or more precisely, the cremello) gene is abreviated Ccr... The gene is interesting in that in one dose it lightens red to yellow, but does not affect black. In two doses it lightens all colors to cream with blue eyes. In most zebra dun Fjord horses the cremello gene would only cause a subtle difference in color. These would still be zebra duns, but would be yellower rather than a light orangey tan. Since the breed has been selected to be fairly yellow within the zebra dun group, this difference will be subtle within Fjord horses. On mouse duns, the cremello gene in a single dose will be barely noticed, altho it can lighten them somewhat. On red duns it has a pronounced effect. These have very minmaly stripes, are verky yellow, and tend to have white points. These are the Fjord equivalent of palomino. In two doses the cremello gene causes zebra duns to be perlino, mouse duns to be silver smokey, and red duns to b cremello. These are all very similar colored horses with blue eyes, perhaps with minimal striping left over from the dun gene. These are called "Kvit" in Norwegian, which translates as white. White in English refers to pink skinned white horses whith dark eyes, so the translation "white" should be avoided for these horses since they are not truly white. The cremello gene is really a fun gene that is full of surprizes. It is an integral and historic part of the Fjord horse breed and should be considered as such. due to the uniformity of the breed to be pale zebra duns the cremello gene usually skates on through the generations unnoticed--until it pairs up with itself and results in a blue eyed cream horse." [End Quote] There is much more in this aritcle, so I hope Mike can copy it and put it on the NFHR website! In Sponenberg's latest book, Equine color Genetics he also goes into color genetics of fjords as well as all variations of "line-backed" duns, mouse duns, red duns. It is somewhat confusing and hard to understand, but very fascinating. By the way, What is your definition of a "true dun"? Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, showers again, and LOTS of mosquitoes! At 04:06 PM 5/24/99 -, you wrote: >This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Hi Jean: > >This is really interesting! I never personally experimented with the white >or dilution genes much, but have friends that deal with it all the time >breeding paints and appaloosas, one being a color geneticist. Personally, >I've had a LOT of experience with the true Dun Factor, and I started both of >the buckskin registries in the US. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jean: This is really interesting! I never personally experimented with the white or dilution genes much, but have friends that deal with it all the time breeding paints and appaloosas, one being a color geneticist. Personally, I've had a LOT of experience with the true Dun Factor, and I started both of the buckskin registries in the US. A lot of people think the dun is a dilute, but breeding true duns does not result in whites cremellos, palominos, etc. unless that gene is already there and on both sides. I had a dun stallion some years ago that came from a family in N.D., and because they loved the dun had bred dun-to-dun since 1864. This horse produced nothing but duns and grullos, no matter what color the mare was. It is also possible to produce "buckskin" by breeding palomino to say... bay... and if two such horses are mated it would be possible to produce a palomino or other dilute. Because of this, some people got the idea that breeding "dun" to "dun" produced white or palomino horses, but the truth is, they were dilutes and did not have the true Dun Factor, i.e., primitive striping. What really interests me about the Fjord color, is that now I see they do carry a dilution gene as well, and all this time I thought they only came in true dun. Duh... I haven't looked deeply enough into Fjord color. In early times, way-back-when - this horse must have existed in several different colors? But descended in a good part from the old Northern Dun? At what time did the powers-that-be decide that the dun color was preferred over say, chestnut, etc.? Gosh, back to the books! Anyway, when it comes to horse color genetics I am an idiot (other than dealing with the dun factor) and always just pester Phil or one of my other genetic expert friends. Bonnie Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 10:22 PM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Bonnie, > > I am glad to see you mention Sponenberg. I have both of his books and was > about to suggest you look at them. > > Historicly, before much was known about color genetics, the ulsblak or > white dun was quite popular, but fell out of favor because when they bred > two white duns to each other the result was often a BLUE EYED WHITE, which > is what this "albino" sounds like. I do have an article from the Small > Farmers Journal a number of years ago that tells about this era in > Fjordhorse breeding. I'll look it up and share some of it with the list. > > Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where it is sunny again after a shower and I > must get off this computer and go play with my Fjords! > > At 02:46 PM 5/24/99 -, you wrote: > >This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Hi Mike: > >Well, I don't know how they call them in the Fjord family - I don't know if > >the Fjord has a classification for "white" other than to call him a "white > >dun." > >I'd sure like to see photos of this animal. Also, my friend Phil Sponenberg > >could sure pinpoint his color if I had some pictures to send to him (author > >of Horse Color Genetics). > > > >Bonnie > > > > > Jean Ernest > Fairbanks, Alaska > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bonnie, I am glad to see you mention Sponenberg. I have both of his books and was about to suggest you look at them. Historicly, before much was known about color genetics, the ulsblak or white dun was quite popular, but fell out of favor because when they bred two white duns to each other the result was often a BLUE EYED WHITE, which is what this "albino" sounds like. I do have an article from the Small Farmers Journal a number of years ago that tells about this era in Fjordhorse breeding. I'll look it up and share some of it with the list. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where it is sunny again after a shower and I must get off this computer and go play with my Fjords! At 02:46 PM 5/24/99 -, you wrote: >This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Hi Mike: >Well, I don't know how they call them in the Fjord family - I don't know if >the Fjord has a classification for "white" other than to call him a "white >dun." >I'd sure like to see photos of this animal. Also, my friend Phil Sponenberg >could sure pinpoint his color if I had some pictures to send to him (author >of Horse Color Genetics). > >Bonnie > Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi: I'm not sure what a "Merle" is... my dog was a blue/black and white Australian Shepherd that we got from a rancher (out of his litter) and she was bred to a dog her same color, actually an accident but one of the kids let her out. Out of five pups, she had two white ones, and I didn't know they was deaf until they was about two months old. That's when the vet first told me about lethal white, and later I began to learn quite a bit about it in horse breeding. Interesting... eh? Bonnie Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Mark and Lisa McGinley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 8:51 PM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > This message is from: Mark and Lisa McGinley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > "B. Hendricks" wrote: > > > > > > > This also occurs in other animals (lethal white) and quite often in > > Australian Shepherd dogs, where if the white pups do survive, they are > > either blind or deaf or both. > > This only happens when two Merles, either Red Merles or Blue Merles are bred > together. The Merling gene is the one that causes the swirling patchy pattern > in an otherwise solid color Aussie. It's also a recessive gene. There is a 25% > chance (genetically) of getting a lethal white. Some breeders don't breed Merle > to Merle crosses for this reason. This is also why even excessively white > healthy dogs are faulted at shows. > > Mark McGinley > Mariposa > > >
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Mike: Well, I don't know how they call them in the Fjord family - I don't know if the Fjord has a classification for "white" other than to call him a "white dun." Dun however, does have some color. If the horse was that so far unfound true albino, his eyes would be red (showing the blood in the vessels) just like a white rabbit. Since his eyes are blue, he's either a white horse (which should be very rare in the Fjord) or maybe the registry would call him a white dun, dunno. What really surprises me, is that there is a true white in the Fjord. I didn't know they carried that gene. I'm sure learning a lot on this list - I thought they were all "duns" of varying shades. True dun (with dorsal striping, etc.) is not the result of the dilution gene found in the palomino - and true dun does not come with blue eyes. So my head is swimming with questions. Do the Fjords have white markings sometimes? Not that white markings are connected to the dilution gene, but I just had the impression they didn't have white markings. I guess I need to go look closer at the Fjord pictures. In any case, to me this horse should be considered very rare, even if he's not the favorite color of Fjord breeders. On the other hand, if he ends up classified as a "white dun" than he is very rare and desirable? I'd sure like to see photos of this animal. Also, my friend Phil Sponenberg could sure pinpoint his color if I had some pictures to send to him (author of Horse Color Genetics). Bonnie Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Mike May, Registrar NFHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 5:49 PM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >it is termed "lethal white" because the foal dies in utero. If one does make > >it to term, it dies very quickly. > > No I have never heard this. Anyone else? Brian J??? > > > So is it a White dun then even though it doesn't have any of the "Dun" > markings? > > Or is it a "White Horse" > > > === > > Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry > Mike May, Registrar > Voice 716-872-4114 > FAX 716-787-0497 > > http://www.nfhr.com > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Mark and Lisa McGinley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "B. Hendricks" wrote: > > > This also occurs in other animals (lethal white) and quite often in > Australian Shepherd dogs, where if the white pups do survive, they are > either blind or deaf or both. This only happens when two Merles, either Red Merles or Blue Merles are bred together. The Merling gene is the one that causes the swirling patchy pattern in an otherwise solid color Aussie. It's also a recessive gene. There is a 25% chance (genetically) of getting a lethal white. Some breeders don't breed Merle to Merle crosses for this reason. This is also why even excessively white healthy dogs are faulted at shows. Mark McGinley Mariposa
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:51 AM 5/24/99 +, you wrote: This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Did you know that the albino does not exist in the horse? What people call albinos in horses are simply white horses. When albinism occurs in the horse it is termed "lethal white" because the foal dies in utero. If one does make it to term, it dies very quickly. No I have never heard this. Anyone else? Brian J??? So is it a White dun then even though it doesn't have any of the "Dun" markings? Or is it a "White Horse" === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:41 AM 5/24/99 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:43 AM 5/24/99 -0400, you wrote: >This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Modellen has 27 Brown Dun, 18 White Dun & 1 Albino registered with the NFHR. It would be interesting to know is the "albino" has pink skin.., etc. and is really an albino or just without a stripe like Anvil's Solvaktig and my filly Anvil's Adel. Do you have a picture of this horse, Mike? Well the picture I have is a pretty bad one. It does show a pink nose though.There isn't any black in the face, it is all white. From the notes that the previous registrar left I can tell you this: It has no dorsal stripe. His skin is pink and he has blue eyes & white hooves. He was registered by an approval of the BOD due to these circumstances. He is a gelding by the way. Mike, I am working on sending you those pictures of Solvaktig and Adel..will send one for a test today. If you do have a picture of that albino, could you scan and send it to me? Well it is pretty poor but I will see what I can do with it. Got the picture of Solvaktig. can't really tell much without the look at the mane though. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Did you know that the albino does not exist in the horse? What people call albinos in horses are simply white horses. When albinism occurs in the horse it is termed "lethal white" because the foal dies in utero. If one does make it to term, it dies very quickly. This also occurs in other animals (lethal white) and quite often in Australian Shepherd dogs, where if the white pups do survive, they are either blind or deaf or both. But albinos do not survive in any of the equines. It can also happen in breeding Appaloosas and Paints, where too many white genes combine to produce lethal white. It happens much more often than is realized, as the foals die in the uterus and are absorbed. Just thought I'd toss two cents in. I'd like to see more photos of the white duns in the Fjord. Its certainly interesting, I did not know they came in so many shades of dun. Bonnie Monthly Horse articles, Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com What's a Cerbat Horse? Check it out at the site below http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 3:41 PM Subject: Re: oops!!/white duns in North America > This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > At 09:43 AM 5/24/99 -0400, you wrote: > >This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Modellen has 27 Brown Dun, 18 White Dun & 1 Albino registered with the NFHR. > > It would be interesting to know is the "albino" has pink skin.., etc. and > is really an albino or just without a stripe like Anvil's Solvaktig and > my filly Anvil's Adel. Do you have a picture of this horse, Mike
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:43 AM 5/24/99 -0400, you wrote: >This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Modellen has 27 Brown Dun, 18 White Dun & 1 Albino registered with the NFHR. It would be interesting to know is the "albino" has pink skin.., etc. and is really an albino or just without a stripe like Anvil's Solvaktig and my filly Anvil's Adel. Do you have a picture of this horse, Mike? > >Not sure if you knew it or not but Modellen died earlier this year from >colic. So sorry to hear this..He was really a nice stallion. > >It is also interesting to note that while looking at this date I noticed >that only Modellen has ever sired more than 2 White Dun's. In Canada, Orville and Anita Unrau's stallion Leidjo (N1945)(C370) who was imported from Norway has sired at least 7 'white duns' (including possible misnamed yellows, etc.) and at least 4 greys out of 75 offspring listed. (I just accessed the Canadian Fjord Horse Association CLR page and counted them up) Mike, I am working on sending you those pictures of Solvaktig and Adel..will send one for a test today. If you do have a picture of that albino, could you scan and send it to me? Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, another great sunny day, the sun rose at 4:00AM and will set about 11:40PM today and the Alaska range is shining white on the horizon to the south. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:56 AM 5/21/99 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> How many white offspring does Modellen have now? Modellen is distantly related to Line and Stella by the way. Modellen has 27 Brown Dun, 18 White Dun & 1 Albino registered with the NFHR. Not sure if you knew it or not but Modellen died earlier this year from colic. >We also >have a white dun imported from Norway, How many in NA that you know of Mike? Well there are 37 White Dun's registered with NFHR. This includes any deceased horses too. There are only 6 that were imported from Norway. 5 of the are mares and Modellen. It is also interesting to note that while looking at this date I noticed that only Modellen has ever sired more than 2 White Dun's. Actually only Karibu & Grabbson have sired 2 White's. Mike
Re: oops!!/white duns in North America
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I can list most of the white duns(and/or yellows?) related to Mary Thurman's Line and my mare Stella: Stella's offspring: Anvil's Stina and Anvil's Solvaktig(no stripe) Stina's offspring: Anvils Edderkopp (black stripe), Anvil's Sander (no stripe), Anvil's Stellalite (black stripe), Anvil's Salomon (no stripe), Anvil's Adel (no stripe) Stina has had at least one more stud colt, white with black stripe...I don't know his name. Anita Unrau could update us on this? How many white offspring does Modellen have now? Modellen is distantly related to Line and Stella by the way. Laura, what is the name of the white dun you have, and what are the bloodlines? Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, another gorgeous day with 19 hours, 15 minutes of possible sunshine! 65 degrees forecast. We also >have a white dun imported from Norway, How many in NA that you know of Mike? Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops!
This message is from: "Mark and Lisa K. McGinley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ceacy wrote: > This message is from: ceacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > ...But as is true in all livestock, the breeding male has the potential of > producing more > offspring in his breeding career than does the female, and thus the > importance of selecting a breeding male that exhibits the qualities you are > selecting for takes on a disproporionate amount of importance . It is more > important perhaps in the big picture , as in your total program, but not on > an individual basis > An excellent point. Thanks for bringing that up. Although it is a bit of the chicken and the egg... the only reason that stallions produce a lot of offspring per stallion is that there aren't a lot of stallions. If I had one stallion and one or two mares and bred them every year I think that I would search harder for the perfect mare instead of the stallion do to your reasons about how much the mare imparts in nurturing versus the stallions nature. Mark McGinley Mariposa Washburn, WI
RE: Oops! More info!
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi -Just to let you know that I know exactly what you mean. I had problems with my Kai from the beginning. In a word - try experimenting with your horse, if you really like him and think the time and effort might be worth your while then it probably will be. Remember - little things mean alot to horses - its all about body language and gestures. With Kai, for example, it suddenly dawned on me to stop in my tracks whenever I noticed that he would begin to turn his head as I approached him (whereas I used to continue the approach and pet him, sulking, that he seemed so indifferent and not knowing why). Now I wait for him to turn back and look at me and take a step towards me before I continue to move toward him. Don`t ask me why he "ducks" - is he shy ? could he not care less ? No idea - but I seem to think he is showing submission - but in order for him to submit, I have to dominate - and this is (in my opinion) a very complicated thing - at least for novices. Watch yourself around your horse, your movements, your attitudes - give him time to approach you. So often we humans start in without thinking and all the while our horses don`t know what to make of us because we are not speaking their language but forcing ours on them (in certain cases - my own, for example.) No wonder they are sometimes rude or otherwise disobedient. We teach them to be so. Another thing I realized is that my horse is absolutely intelligent ! I knew it all along of course, but never really tested it out. One time I stood there and held up Kai´s halter - fully expecting him to stick his head in it - and do you know what - he did ! I thought that was so fantastic, I began operating under the motto - if I expect mor from him, he will willingly oblige - I just have to ask. Nowadays my friendship with Kai is much much better. We "click", which is something I never thought I would be saying about us. We go on hour-long walks - climb over stumps and branches and other little gymnastic exercises. When I ride he is absolutley obedient. (Therefore I decided at one point to cut out, for example, the longing, which he hates.) Time and challenge strengthens bonds, just like the others have said. I agree wholeheartedly. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 17. November 1998 03:32 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Oops! More info! > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) > > I am looking for a sweet horse if you want to find a good home for > him. Jean :) > > > >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >In a message dated 11/16/98 15:04:29 Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >writes: > > > ><< He's a sweet horse and I have nothing against him, I just don't > > have a "connection" with him. Has anyone else ever had that problem > or is > > it just me? >> > > > >It's not just you. Just as certain people seem to click, and others > can > >grate, it's the same with horse relationships. Luckily, my own > personal > >horses and I have always been on the same wavelength, but with some > it takes > >longer than others. I know Juniper and I did not have an instant > rapport, but > >it developed as we went through some rough times and some good times > together. > >Sometimes also you need to just relax and do nothing with your horse. > Take a > >long walk together, or sit with him while he grazes, scratch his neck > >occasionally, asking nothing of him. Sounds silly, I know, but it IS > a good > >way to develop a bond. Just being together. No expectations. > Give > >yourself and your horse some more time and maybe it will happen for > you. > > > >Pamela > >Hoping this makes sense to you > > > Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: Oops! More info!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) I am looking for a sweet horse if you want to find a good home for him. Jean :) >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In a message dated 11/16/98 15:04:29 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >writes: > ><< He's a sweet horse and I have nothing against him, I just don't > have a "connection" with him. Has anyone else ever had that problem or is > it just me? >> > >It's not just you. Just as certain people seem to click, and others can >grate, it's the same with horse relationships. Luckily, my own personal >horses and I have always been on the same wavelength, but with some it takes >longer than others. I know Juniper and I did not have an instant rapport, but >it developed as we went through some rough times and some good times together. >Sometimes also you need to just relax and do nothing with your horse. Take a >long walk together, or sit with him while he grazes, scratch his neck >occasionally, asking nothing of him. Sounds silly, I know, but it IS a good >way to develop a bond. Just being together. No expectations.Give >yourself and your horse some more time and maybe it will happen for you. > >Pamela >Hoping this makes sense to you > Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: Oops! More info!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 11/16/98 15:04:29 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << He's a sweet horse and I have nothing against him, I just don't have a "connection" with him. Has anyone else ever had that problem or is it just me? >> It's not just you. Just as certain people seem to click, and others can grate, it's the same with horse relationships. Luckily, my own personal horses and I have always been on the same wavelength, but with some it takes longer than others. I know Juniper and I did not have an instant rapport, but it developed as we went through some rough times and some good times together. Sometimes also you need to just relax and do nothing with your horse. Take a long walk together, or sit with him while he grazes, scratch his neck occasionally, asking nothing of him. Sounds silly, I know, but it IS a good way to develop a bond. Just being together. No expectations.Give yourself and your horse some more time and maybe it will happen for you. Pamela Hoping this makes sense to you
Re: Oops! More info!
This message is from: Jodie Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Not having a "connection" with a horse is a common ailment, I think. At least, I have certainly experienced it. Now, it is possible not to have a "connection" even with a Fjord--but it is much more unlikely!! :) Thanks for the details--and I know what you mean about trail riding/time/kids. My daughter is 11 months old. I actually take her with me on rides up to three hours (backpack), but if the weather is threatening to rain (which it does pretty much all the time here from Nov. to March :( ), I don't like to take her out. I don't want her to get soaked/chilled! She loves to ride, though, and Leah my current horse (Fjord borrowed from my folks) is very tolerant of the extra passenger. ta ta for now, --- Jodie Gilmore Freelance Technical Writer Washougal, WA
