Re: Tripping in Fjord horses
This message is from: S K windyacre...@yahoo.com Marie, My Andy ( 8yr. old ) tripped badly when Chris Lombard had him in a trot last summer...I thought he was going down..! I have a farrier whose been with me for 12 yrs...He's been a farrier for many yrsChris says it's because even though I have a large training ring it's because the horse is basically going in a circle...but I've also seen my girlfriends qhorse who was 16 yrs...almost fall in the riding ringI asked Chris who thinks it's because horses can't see immediately in front of them... This is a very interesting topic, one I will most definitely read closely. Susan From: Marie countrydreamingspi...@yahoo.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 8:39 PM Subject: Tripping in Fjord horses This message is from: Marie countrydreamingspi...@yahoo.com Hi all Has anyone here had a problem with their horses tripping or stumbling? My gelding Sam occasionally stumbles when being ridden and when being worked in hand. It is scary and frustrating. He seems to trip mostly at the walk, but once in a while at the trot. I have been trimming his hooves.myself for the past two years, but am planning on having a professional out to evaluate his hoof balance. I also plan on working on his overall strength and fitness, as I believe that is probably playing a role on the tripping. I would greatly appreciate any input and to hear if anyone else has dealt with this problem on any of their horses, as well as solutions they found. Thank you Marie (and Samson) from Long Island Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Important Fjord Horse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
tripping
This message is from: Debby miss.am...@earthlink.net Iâd not had any of my fjords ever be trippy. I did have an older retired hunt horse that came to me that way, in fact the previous caretakers told me to take care of his tripping. At that time, I really had little knowledge. I rode him sitting forward Iâm sure, adding more weight to his frontend, which didnât help him. And he tripped and I went down, two different occasions. Both times wearing a helmet but mostly flipped and hurt by rearend. I still have some hip issues now and then. Iâd never heard of one tripping because heâs doing circles. Could be its too small of a circle and asking for too much speed. Could be the footing is too thick. Could be the toes are too long. I donât want to knock farriers. Its most important for the owner to know what the feet should look like after being trimmed/shod. The owner needs to know angles and what is right for each horse. And then hope and pray their farrier is open to discussion and working with them. Not easy to do a lot of times. Iâve had great farriers and had some bad ones, right now Iâm in a location where Iâd not let one within 20miles of me run a nail through anyone. A good farrier, that does a great job, explains angles and can fix or help with some issues, that farrier will tell you there are a lot of bad farriers out there. Iâd had a great farrier some time ago and he and a vet both told me that farriers do a lot more damage than theyâd be willing to admit. For me, when Iâve started with a new farrier, it seems the first trip goes well, the horses feet are good, as they were good to begin with. But then by the 3rd trip I can see angles that Iâm not happy with, things are changing in the trim, longer toes very typical. Terrible balance, shorter heel on the inside compared to the outside. A mistake will take several trips from a good farrier to fix, at least. Hope the one that has the trippy horse will not only have a farrier look but have a vet do a lameness check, not that the horse is lame, but could be other issues going on. Debby in Tx p.s. one thing I always try to remember to do before a farrier trip, clip back the hairs around the coronary band, getting a good look at length and how the line around the top of the hoof looks. Gives a good picture of the whole foot to the farrier. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Tripping in Fjord horses
This message is from: Starfire Farm starfiref...@usa.net Tripping can be the result of a number of things: The rider's balance over the horse's front legs; A lazy horse; An inattentive horse; A tense horse; A horse that has not been warmed up well enough; A horse lacking hindquarter/loin strength; A horse that is not supple; A horse not ridden/driven in proper balance; A horse falling through the inside shoulder on a circle; Incorrect farrier work; An orthopedic condition that requires veterinary diagnosis/attention. These could be in combination, or the result of only one condition, but it happens. Tripping in a horse that does not do this normally can indicate arthritic changes, onset of navicular disease or just sore feet. I currently have a Fjord in training that would habitually trip at the beginning of a warm-up session. The training goal for this horse is to improve his collection in dressage, eventually teaching him piaffe, passage and all of the other goodies that go along with that here. He could be a bit tense (just a little) until he warmed up. He was also used to carrying his rider over his left shoulder (the position that was the rider's habit), therefore he would tense his left shoulder/back to try to ease the discomfort (essentially protect himself from pain.) This horse would actually look like he was lame when trotting, but he was just trying to cope with his out-of-balance rider, which eventually turned into a pattern of uneven/unlevel trot steps. Working through collected exercises, both in-hand and under saddle, has helped this horse develop strength and balance that he did not have previously. In addition, my farrier and I have been problem solving his front limb movement and ended up setting his shoes back a bit (not a natural trim, but has the same effect without shaving away and weakening the hoof wall, which is what happens in this neck of the woods) which seems to have helped. Long warm-up sessions and frequent breaks during his work sessions have also helped. He is much stronger in his hindquarters (like...Buns of Steel!) and is now a blast to ride in both collection, medium and working towards extended gaits. Hope this helps. Beth On 2/6/2012 6:39 PM, Marie wrote: This message is from: Mariecountrydreamingspi...@yahoo.com Hi all Has anyone here had a problem with their horses tripping or stumbling? My gelding Sam occasionally stumbles when being ridden and when being worked in hand. It is scary and frustrating. He seems to trip mostly at the walk, but once in a while at the trot. I have been trimming his hooves.myself for the past two years, but am planning on having a professional out to evaluate his hoof balance. I also plan on working on his overall strength and fitness, as I believe that is probably playing a role on the tripping. I would greatly appreciate any input and to hear if anyone else has dealt with this problem on any of their horses, as well as solutions they found. Thank you Marie (and Samsun) from Long Island Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l -- Beth Beymer and Sandy North Starfire Farm, LLC www.starfirefarm.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
tripping
This message is from: Debby miss.am...@earthlink.net The funny thing Iâve seen with horses that have some issues, whether tripping or lack of being forward, being lazy, not balanced. If they are out in the pasture, running around with their friends, how do they move. I know my Ynde who is hard to canter undersaddle, balance issue but sheâs getting there, can sure canter from one end of the pasture to the other, no problems, no getting tired (sheâs never had tripping issues), no lazy issues when out playing. Rider issues?? most likely, Iâm working on it. It seems to me that the rider putting extra weight on their horses forehand can and would be an issue, but at the point of being lame? If you take the horse and move his weight back, the rider back, and strengthen his backend, teach him to âsitâ, you are taking the weight off of the front end, but if youâre having to put special shoes on him and keep him always in this collection, to keep him from being trippy or owey, have you fixed the problem. Maybe the hope that taking the weight off will help with the problem on the front end to give it time to fix itself? My old mom Amber, with all of the health issues she has had the last 2 yrs. with her cushings, and with her arthritus, she drags her feet, wears off the toe, all four feet. But when she is feeling good, and she trots and runs, she has never tripped. One of the huge rewards for a horse is the free walk, horse stretching down and forward. Its great for their back and their minds. I donât trail ride much anymore, but there were many trail rides we took and just let the horses have their heads, no contact, eating along the way, still walking, but busy talking with friends. Good times! for us and the horses. I think first check with vet, make sure no issues, even do xrays, lameness check. A really good equine vet can tell you if your farrier is doing the right job for any horse having trippy issues, or at least recommend some changes in what your farrier is doing, even putting shoes on if needed and what kind, what kind of trim. But might be the vet might find some issues with the backend, not even the front end? I do think its true, no strength or muscle in the butt will surely make a horse heavier on the forehand, but trippy? Iâd worry if mine didnât have muscle in their butts. Especially fjords. Out of shape, yes, but no muscle in the backend to the point they are trippy. My husband had a quarterhorse. He was afraid to let go of this horses mouth, especially at the canter. We could see him lift the horse with each canter stride. If he dropped contact, the horse would fall on his face. He wasnât hard on his mouth, he was holding him up. But it became a habit. Weâd have to remind him to let GO! He overcame it but it was scarey for him. Its surely not fun having one to trip and to fall, the one I fell from was 16.2 hand percheron/tb cross. Was a loong fall to the ground. Happened two times within a month. Tree roots caused the second one, me not paying attention. Debby Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: tripping
This message is from: Starfire Farm starfiref...@usa.net It seems to me that the rider putting extra weight on their horses forehand can and would be an issue, but at the point of being lame? If this is in response to my earlier post, please let me clarify. The horse was NOT clinically lame, however, the crookedness in the rider's position was creating discomfort in the horse's shoulder (only one shoulder, the one the rider was putting more pressure on) which made the horse favor that shoulder in order to avoid discomfort, which became a habit (ask your vet, sometime horses that experience prolonged lameness have to be encouraged to use the affected limb because they expect to feel pain, so still favor the limb.) I forgot to mention that the rider's crooked position also caused the horse to travel crooked, exacerbating the problem. So, one could consider it a rein lameness however, I believe rein lameness can be a misnomer, not caused by the reins only, but also caused by a crooked, out of balance rider (hence rein imbalance). But might be the vet might find some issues with the backend, not even the front end? Yes, this can be true. Sometimes what might seem to present as a front lameness problem is actually a hind lameness problem. I do think its true, no strength or muscle in the butt will surely make a horse heavier on the forehand, but trippy? I’d worry if mine didn’t have muscle in their butts. Especially fjords. This Fjord had plenty of muscle in the hindquarters. It's even nicer now! ;-) When I see a horse, especially a Fjord, with a lack of muscling in the hindquarter and the hind limbs (stifle, gaskin, etc.) It is a red flag to me that something is not right with the horse. My husband had a quarterhorse. He was afraid to let go of this horses mouth, especially at the canter. We could see him lift the horse with each canter stride. If he dropped contact, the horse would fall on his face. I have re-trained warmbloods that were ridden with the hold-'em, drive 'em mentality that had started the horses rearing with their riders (a couple of our trainers out here are famous for that!) One horse was so used to being held up that when I let the reins go to the buckle, he fell to his knees and I thought o, here it comes! but he manged not to somersault and learned to balance himself. Rest assured, my weight was NOT on his forehand when that happened! My main point and a major focus with my students is correct position and balance of the rider to not hinder the horse's balance and way of going. Once they get that, then I help them learn how to enhance the horse's way of going with their balance and position. It can be a long journey, but one well worth taking. Beth -- Beth Beymer and Sandy North Starfire Farm, LLC www.starfirefarm.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Tripping in Fjord horses
This message is from: Bonnie Morris morrisshado...@aol.com Hello Marie and Samsun Yes I have seen this issue come up in a few different Fjords that I have trained. The best thing to do is have a well respected farrier evaluated the situation. Your vet may have a good recommendation.Without seeing the horse I can only guess, but I can tell you about some of the other Fjords that have had this issue.One had not been trimmed correctly in a long time and the hoof angles were very off.Another one hit toe first and was very scary. This one's toe had to be taken way back and a rolled shoe put on. It solved the problem, but had to be done regularly to keep from tripping, another one had founder issues that could not be totally helped.And some times they need just need work over poles to get them to pick up their feet and learn how to balance themselves.For what ever reason I have seen this issue come up more in the Fjords than other breeds that I have worked with. Good luck with Samsun Hopefully this issue will be something simple! Bonnie Morris Western WA Windy, but sunny:) -Original Message- From: Marie countrydreamingspi...@yahoo.com To: fjordhorse fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2012 5:40 pm Subject: Tripping in Fjord horses This message is from: Marie countrydreamingspi...@yahoo.com i all as anyone here had a problem with their horses tripping or stumbling? y gelding Sam occasionally stumbles when being ridden and when being worked in and. t is scary and frustrating. He seems to trip mostly at the walk, but once in a hile at the trot. have been trimming his hooves.myself for the past two years, but am planning n having a professional out to evaluate his hoof balance. also plan on working on his overall strength and fitness, as I believe that is robably playing a role on the tripping. would greatly appreciate any input and to hear if anyone else has dealt with his problem on any of their horses, as well as solutions they found. hank you arie (and Samsun) from Long Island ent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Important FjordHorse List Links: ubscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e H-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw H-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Tripping klutz
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our yearling gelding is not a tripper, but he sure doesn't have any idea where things are in relation to his body. He bumps into things because he doesn't know where is boundaries are, he doesn't know that you don't bump into people and he is not very graceful turning around in tight spaces. The 7 year old mare is quite adept at getting around without bumping into things because she knows the rules. the yearling will get it someday.
Re: Tripping klutz
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/30/00 3:40:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: She is most beautiful all decked out in her English saddle and bridle, but just is a clod. Sometimes a really good trim from a GOOD farrier fixes that. Gail
TRIPPING through the Tulips......; )
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 00-01-16 08:26:10 EST, you write: think tripping and stumbling does exist in quite a number of Fjords Well Hi List !Im fighting a cold now, so will try and make it short, dont want to dribble on the keyboard. I have been reading the tripping posts with a bit of confusion. Every horse we have ever owned has tripped or stumbled every once in awhile. This has included QH's, TB Appy X, Morgan QH X, Ponies of every type, including minis, and Paints. Every Fjord we have owned and worked up to riding several disaplines including English, Western, Dressage and Driven Dressage has occasionally tripped also. Never has one fallen down ( unlike my QH/Arab, who went down 2 times in 15 years with me on her ) or even come close to making me feel unsafe. I feel that some TYPE of horses, including some Fjords may be prone to tripping, but owning both the lighter type tall and elegant, along with the huge Drafty type like Kaiser, built like a Peterbilt truck, NONE has shown a pre-disposition to trip any more or less than the other type. I also feel that shoeing with a good farrier keeps mine sound and moving well. There is a breeder that we know, who for years, breeds Fjords with hoof and thyroid problems. I have seen several of his Fjords in action, along with the breeding stock at his ranch, and have left feeling a little sick over how hog fat he keeps them. I dont know if the thyroid problems are caused by, or just contributed to, by the management of his stock, bloodlines, or if the hoof problems and reported tripping by their owners would get better with less food and more work while growing up, but there you have it. Maybe if people really researched and looked around at many Fjords before breeding to whoever is close or has a deal at hand..they wouldnt end up with health, and soundness problems. I have bought Fjords from Roger and Diane Whittney in Minnesota, Shirley Anderson in Idaho, and a filly this year from Catherine Lassessen in Or. None of these animals were close, or easy to get to us in Ca. but I found none there I could use. None of my beautiful herd has health or tripping problems, and I encourage everyone to look at the cost of shipping a well bred, healthy animal against buying one that may cost the trip, but unable to provide the lifetime of enjoyment that a sound, well bred one can. BTW, Village Farm in Nuevo Ca. ( Margaret Stracken ) is now breeding wonderful Fjords in Ca. She looks closely at bloodlines and stands her wonderful Stallion, Valbjorn, who has won at upper level CD's. No movement problems there ! I only wish that the West Coast had more breeders to chose from, esp. when we started with this breed. My stud colt out of a Gjest daughter, and by Valbjorn is better and better each day. We have thoughtfully gelded every boy foal we have ever bred, except him. The payoffs of having such a good colt is worth everything. Just my .2 cents. I promise not to infect anyone with this crappy colt tonight if you come to Fjord chat. Last week, we had a fun group of, loyals and newbies. PAV Aussie from Down Under and I welcomed, BKFjords, Lynda, Mustang, Betsy, Sarah, Jon and Mary, Sheri, Casey, Juilianne, Teressa, Patti, Jeb, Laurie and better-late-than-never, Louanna. Sorry if I left anyone out. See you tonight ! Lisa Pedersen PAV FJORDS A HREF=http://www.petsandvets.com/;PETS AND VETS/A A HREF=http://volano1.suresite.com/petsvets/vcclient/horsechat.html;HORSE CHAT ROOM/A
Tripping
This message is from: Julie Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps, this issue could be made part of the evaluation process because I think tripping and stumbling does exist in quite a number of Fjords The evaluation process scores horses for all the factors that would contribute to tripping...shoulder angle, pasterns, muscling, width of chest, hooves, bone size and quality, freedom of movement and length of stride. Hopefully more and more people will take advantage of this program and meaningful results will be available for all of us to benefit from.
Tripping
This message is from: Paula Steinmetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps, this issue could be made part of the evaluation process because I think tripping and stumbling does exist in quite a number of Fjords and it is a big negative because of the danger of a fall. It is not always evident when the horse is in pasture or on the lounge line. It becomes more evident when the horse is asked to work and the added weight and balance of the rider can affect this type of horse. Wouldn't it be awful if Fjords became known as the horse that is Unsafe At Any Speed? Well, at least there are no gas fumes in the riding compartment :o)
Tripping and shoeing
This message is from: Nancy Lehnert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all from Sunny (rare occurance) but Snowy Montana! To Brigid in CA -- you wrote that since you had your horses shoes pulled for the winter he hasn't stumbled since. He moves better than ever, is more surefooted and confident. Since there are times when horses really do need the protection of being shod, you should do some research to find a farrier who understands the Natural Wild Horse trimming and SHOEING method. When shoeing horses with method Gene Ovnicek developed, the toe of the hoof is shortened, beveled, and the shoe set back to give good heel support while allowing for the natural rolling of the toe to take place. Even horse who are barefoot whose toes are too long are prone to stumble or trip. Gene gives clinics all across the country and in Europe and Australia. His methods have really helped a lot of horses! Good luck! I must add one other note that Jead has mentioned - the rider. I once sold a horse who had never tripped with me. The new owner had the horse vetted because of the tripping she experienced. The vets only conclusion was that it was caused by the equitation ( or should I say lack of!). As she improved ( stopped trying to balance on the horses mouth) then the horse quit tripping. This wasn't a horse who needed strong contact, he was balanced well naturally. Happy Trails, Nancy
Re: Tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In response to the tripping issueThere is a huge difference between my two Fjord geldings and tripping. The one that does trip at both the canter and trot has conformational issues that have been pointed out by both my vet and farrier. They are angle of shoulder, straight pasterns, and neck set. Playing around with the shoeing helped a little but the possibility of a trip is always there. My horse that trips is not drafty in build, but he is from one of the more draft lines. The other gelding from a different lineage, never trips and is one of the more surefooted horses I have ever ridden through any kind of footing. Perhaps, this issue could be made part of the evaluation process because I think tripping and stumbling does exist in quite a number of Fjords and it is a big negative because of the danger of a fall. It is not always evident when the horse is in pasture or on the lounge line. It becomes more evident when the horse is asked to work and the added weight and balance of the rider can affect this type of horse. I know many people have responded that their Fjords have never tripped and I am sure that is true, just as sure as there are many people that have Fjords that trip. I guess it's something that should be checked out prior to a purchase. I wish I was aware of it at the time. Elaine Olsen
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting! I wouldn't think of that myself! I would love to see an online photo of your driving Fjord if you have one. Thanks for sharing your experience. _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA -- From: John and Martie Bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Tripping Date: Tue, Jan 11, 2000, 9:31 AM kept working him slowly until he refound his balance without leaning on the check.I never realized he was using his check to balance himself!
tripping
This message is from: Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: tripping ~ have to agree with Jean on this one. Fjords, at least mine, seems heaven made for a wild horse hoof trim. Works wonders on their carriage, tripping, etc.
Re: Tripping
This message is from: John and Martie Bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] RE tripping - I noticed that Kilar (not a tripper when I bought him and first started driving) developed an uneven way of going and tripped quite a bit when I first started driving without his side check. I worried quite a bit that something was wrong with him, but at the urging of my trainer, kept working him slowly until he refound his balance without leaning on the check. Once again he is doing great in harness. Have not ridden since the tripping started - not because of the tripping, just because of the time factor. If I have some time I'd rather drive. I never realized he was using his check to balance himself! And that after spending $$$ to have his feet retrimmed and everything. Martie and Kilar in MD Sarah Vogeley wrote: This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meredith; Yes, I would tend to agree that conformational tendancy to trip is a bad thing to breeding into any horse used for any purpose. I will pay particular attention to this when I look for my first Fjord for driving! Thanks, _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA
Re: Oops, tripping, etc.
This message is from: Starfire Farm, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alison Barr wrote: Do we really need to breed for riding? It seems to me that they are already there! We have several sizes and shapes of fjords at our farm at the moment. A few are built uphill, have withers (good for holding the saddle on) have beautiful, but not extravagant trots, and have no problem cantering. One gelding, which I would say is leaning towards the draft type, is very tall (at least 15.1h) but incredibly athletic. He's beautiful to watch both at the trot and the canter. As for fjord type, there's no question that he's a fjord. The only thing I would change about him is that he has a relatively small eye and a coarse head (something I've seen in a number of draft type fjords.) We also have a couple of mares who are unquestionably fjord type, but are not as uphill as the males mentioned earlier. Interestingly enough, these horses tend to trip more and have a bit more trouble with the canter. They are athletic, but it's just not as easy for them to get their forehands off the ground. Good riding type horses should have withers and should be built slightly uphill to allow for a good saddle fit, and to make the ride more comfortable. That doesn't mean that you have to change the type! Good conversation! Keep it up! Beth -- Beth Beymer Sandy North Starfire Farm, Berthoud CO www.starfirefarm.com
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat, my boy who tripped had the loveliest trot imaginable. Leg yields, on the bit etc. I could sit-trot him all day. When he would canter it was rocking chair, so not all are downhill. I think narrow chests have a bit to do with it and probably not anyone thing. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am not a breeder yet, but there is only one thing I know of that could cause widespread co-ordination problems within a breed that is reknown worldwide for nimbleness and good movement - bad breeders. I totally agree..the one mare that seemed to have a major tripping problem for me was built very heavy on the front end, her shoulder was short and steep and she had very short pasterns with no anglestanding still she leaned forward. Obviously her stride was short and choppy, uncomfortable to ride. I did not choose this mare, she was not kept as a broodmare, in my opinion she, as they say in the dog world..pet quality. She was sweet, calm and trusting..if spaying wasn't so expensive, she would have been,when she drove she did not trip as much. I think the breast plate kept her up : ) Pat
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meredith; Yes, I would tend to agree that conformational tendancy to trip is a bad thing to breeding into any horse used for any purpose. I will pay particular attention to this when I look for my first Fjord for driving! Thanks, _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Meredith Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Though now that I am hearing other peoples' observations of other Fjords with similar tripping episodes, I am curious to know why this is? Since I have little direct contact with this breed, and I am trying to soak up as much information as possible, I would really like to hear opinions from breeders on this list. I am not a breeder yet, but there is only one thing I know of that could cause widespread co-ordination problems within a breed that is reknown worldwide for nimbleness and good movement - bad breeders. Meredith Sessoms Soddy-Daisy. Tennessee. USA Dorina NFR Aagot
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sarah Vogeley wrote: I must admit, all the talk about Fjords tripping has me worried. Hi Sarah: I've never experienced tripping with any of my Fjords. Lori A.
Re: Tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Sarah- My Fjord Tommes, a graceful riding type, had a terrible problem with tripping. He also kicked himself in the hooves. I thought it would never end. Then I had his shoes pulled for the winter, and he hasn't stumbled since. He moves better than ever, is more surefooted and confident. Barefoot for my boys from now on! Brigid in CA
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sarah re tripping fjords. My previous fjord fell on several occasions always on a circle and relaxed. I was not on him but the young people who were were not injured, luckily. My ferrier pointed out the narrow chest or distance between the knees and he felt that one knee was coming up behind the other and knocking it out. Others who had seen him fall all felt he was asleep and down on the fore. When I had him trimmed with a wild horse trim, squaring the front toes, he never tripped with me but did on one occasion when he was being ridden by a rider who had him all strung out. I rode him on the bit and under himself and we were always working on something so he was paying attention. Jean I never saw him trip when he was free in the pasture. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Tripping
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] I must admit, all the talk about Fjords tripping has me worried. I once saw a Fjord on a lunge line and he must have stumbled at least once each trip around the circle! He was given plenty of space and was on level, smooth ground. At the time, I excused it to this particular horse. Though now that I am hearing other peoples' observations of other Fjords with similar tripping episodes, I am curious to know why this is? Since I have little direct contact with this breed, and I am trying to soak up as much information as possible, I would really like to hear opinions from breeders on this list. Thank you for allowing me to tap your brains!!! :) _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA
canter/tripping
This message is from: Tish Pasqual [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: cnielsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] hey Pat, I just love the digest from misha nogha?? miss natural horse method.I don't know if she understood your bit about lunging. she always came up with off the wall ideas in the past. I assume that this message was supposed to be private, but since it went public I would like to say that I personally enjoy reading what Misha has to say, what Pat has to say, and usually what just about everyone has to say. I think the point here is that this is a forum and that all views are welcome. If nasty personal remarks about others on the list are necessary I suggest a review of the To: line before hitting Send.
Re: possible solution to canter/tripping problems
This message is from: cnielsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] hey Pat, I just love the digest from misha nogha?? miss natural horse method.I don't know if she understood your bit about lunging. she always came up with off the wall ideas in the past. Allen called me today ---he forgot to look at your saddles. he is interested in the western one more. he was just telling me everything he has planned and, wondering if we were interested in buying a yearling stallion/ going in partnership anyways. I don't think were interested. if you have a chance could you copy the pages from the fjord herald about Karibou. I think it would be a good thing to have on hand. anyways I better get to bed, I just read that digest thing and went, oh gosh another NH person. their ways are always better don'tcha know. have a good day and I hope your wounds are healing. oh, Emmy and Elly say hi, so does yippee Kai. Randi - Original Message - From: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:03 PM Subject: possible solution to canter/tripping problems This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know who I'm directing this to, I'm new to this computer talk, but I have been working with horses for sometime and maybe able to help? I don't know about the Natural Horsemanship things. It sounds like it works nicely for some of you. I've been training horses for a living longer than I care to say and just learned from watching, asking and working for good trainers back in the days before Natural Horsemanship. Anyway I do ALOT of ground work with ALL of my horses before riding/driving. I start everything on a lunge line. I don't normally tell people this because lately I get a debate that its not good for a horse (as one of the people said on the list all it does is teach them to go in circles). I've been told it lames a horse (in all the years I've done this I do not recall an unsound horse, either body or mind).But anyway this is how I do it, I train for a living, but I don't sell training techniques, all I know is the results I get from from it has worked for me. I have never lunged a horse for more than an 1/2 hr. Usually 10, 15 or 20 min sessions. Depending on my horses age and attention span. I always lunge in a level area with good footing. At the end of a 25 ft lunge line. (50ft circle is good size). The first thing I use lunging for is discipline: They learn whoa, walk and easy trot from my voice, to stay the 25 ft distance away from me, to listen to me, keep their attention on me and to do what I ask them to do, when I ask it. They learn to change direction and do the same. Its simple work, not hard on them at all. Its basically insisting they to do something they would not normally do, because I'm telling them to do it. Just asking for manners. The second thing I use this for is assessment: Because I've always worked for breeders with alot of horses, I was the one who decided what horse did what, how far a horse could go, so by watching and asking something from the horses, I can tell the ones who will give more, which ones put up that wall when pushed, which ones get bored quickly, the ones that need for you to go slower, the ones that are athletic, I watch the way they move and the way they interact with me, etc etc .. then I change my training routine (slightly) for each of their personalities. I intoduce the bit, surcingle, saddle, harness and blinders off the lunge line. I find once they know my voice and what my voice means by its levels and influx they accept all the new things with trust. (If I use HEY in a harsh way it means I want your attention now, but a soft god girl, calms.) I've found my words sometimes are like a warm blanket when he needs it or a quick reprimand when they are out of line. This communication is needed for a lifetime with your horse. They lady who wrote about the horse dragging her around, the front heavy, leaning tripping horses, sometimes it's a matter of attention. I use lunging for conditioning, which I think is a big part of the canter problem and tripping, I think its unfair to ask a horse to carry a rider and adjust its balance when they are soft. Watch a horse sometimes work and the muscles they use at the walk, trot and canter, and then add the fact all horses (not just Fjords) naturally carry something like 60 some plus percent of its weight on its front end. I also use lunging for working down before riding, cooling down after riding, detecting lameness, evaluatiing a new horse, developing cadence, rhythm, steadiness, I use it at horse shows to let them see the surroundings. And somedays when I'm just tired or sore or sick and I know I might not have the patience for a full workout on their back or in a cart, I lunge just to work him. We have 23 Fjords here now, and some canter naturally and lightly, on or off the bit, collected or at a hand gallop. They tend
Re: possible solution to canter/tripping problems
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat that was a really great plug for lungeing. I have always used it for many of the same reasons. I have had horses I would never get on until I lunged them to get the kinks and bucks out on the line. It would give me a good idea of their personality for the day. Only my two fjords were not lunged unless I had a long lay off and wanted to see their attitude. Much can be learned for the horse and the owner on the lunge. It is a training tool par excellance' and especially re learning the masters voice commands. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
possible solution to canter/tripping problems
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know who I'm directing this to, I'm new to this computer talk, but I have been working with horses for sometime and maybe able to help? I don't know about the Natural Horsemanship things. It sounds like it works nicely for some of you. I've been training horses for a living longer than I care to say and just learned from watching, asking and working for good trainers back in the days before Natural Horsemanship. Anyway I do ALOT of ground work with ALL of my horses before riding/driving. I start everything on a lunge line. I don't normally tell people this because lately I get a debate that its not good for a horse (as one of the people said on the list all it does is teach them to go in circles). I've been told it lames a horse (in all the years I've done this I do not recall an unsound horse, either body or mind).But anyway this is how I do it, I train for a living, but I don't sell training techniques, all I know is the results I get from from it has worked for me. I have never lunged a horse for more than an 1/2 hr. Usually 10, 15 or 20 min sessions. Depending on my horses age and attention span. I always lunge in a level area with good footing. At the end of a 25 ft lunge line. (50ft circle is good size). The first thing I use lunging for is discipline: They learn whoa, walk and easy trot from my voice, to stay the 25 ft distance away from me, to listen to me, keep their attention on me and to do what I ask them to do, when I ask it. They learn to change direction and do the same. Its simple work, not hard on them at all. Its basically insisting they to do something they would not normally do, because I'm telling them to do it. Just asking for manners. The second thing I use this for is assessment: Because I've always worked for breeders with alot of horses, I was the one who decided what horse did what, how far a horse could go, so by watching and asking something from the horses, I can tell the ones who will give more, which ones put up that wall when pushed, which ones get bored quickly, the ones that need for you to go slower, the ones that are athletic, I watch the way they move and the way they interact with me, etc etc .. then I change my training routine (slightly) for each of their personalities. I intoduce the bit, surcingle, saddle, harness and blinders off the lunge line. I find once they know my voice and what my voice means by its levels and influx they accept all the new things with trust. (If I use HEY in a harsh way it means I want your attention now, but a soft god girl, calms.) I've found my words sometimes are like a warm blanket when he needs it or a quick reprimand when they are out of line. This communication is needed for a lifetime with your horse. They lady who wrote about the horse dragging her around, the front heavy, leaning tripping horses, sometimes it's a matter of attention. I use lunging for conditioning, which I think is a big part of the canter problem and tripping, I think its unfair to ask a horse to carry a rider and adjust its balance when they are soft. Watch a horse sometimes work and the muscles they use at the walk, trot and canter, and then add the fact all horses (not just Fjords) naturally carry something like 60 some plus percent of its weight on its front end. I also use lunging for working down before riding, cooling down after riding, detecting lameness, evaluatiing a new horse, developing cadence, rhythm, steadiness, I use it at horse shows to let them see the surroundings. And somedays when I'm just tired or sore or sick and I know I might not have the patience for a full workout on their back or in a cart, I lunge just to work him. We have 23 Fjords here now, and some canter naturally and lightly, on or off the bit, collected or at a hand gallop. They tend to be the ones physically balanced. I was only working for Howard and Sophie a short time when I asked a little very stocky heavy little mare to trot and she tripped, I went over her head and landed in front of Sophie, I think she thought she just hired an idiot! I didn't get hurt, I was laughing because the mare scooped up about a lb of sand in her nose holes and was blowing it out like a whale. The canter/ tripping problem does not come only with the Fjords, back when I was young, thin and cute riding a bunch of QH's there was a particular bloodline (I will not mention) that were particularly clumsy a few of us who had to ride them wanted a class made for us, calling it Start, Stumble and Fall. I guess I've gone on to long, sorry. Please don't take anything I've said offensively. Pat Holland
cantering/tripping
This message is from: Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for all the feedback. What you're telling me is what I remembered from the discussion last winter. The training was necessary - Mark and I were reading books and getting advice and assistance once in awhile but you don't know how impossible it is to get beyond simple steps without alot of fumbling around. We thought it wasn't good for him or for us so started seriously checking out trainers in our immediate vicinity so that we could be as involved as possible. I supplied him with the information I had on fjords, maturity, bone development, conformation etc that I had - mostly postings from the list. He brought up the manner in which he's adapting what he does with quarter horses or thoroughbreds vs how he is bringing Merit along. He seems quite charmed by Merit's look and manner and is helping Mark and I with our hands and legs. He'll just be there for another couple of weeks and then will come home. The work with Merit at the trainer's is also helping us work more effectively with Nina - who is just 17 months now. And Merit isn't being worked in a round pen but in a big covered arena with a nice surface. The steering was our biggest worry as do it yourselfers. I tried a bitting harness, we tried a lot of stuff from books but it just frustrated us and Merit. Now when we get him home we can get to work with driving again. A reining board must help people who know something about rein pressure and so on, but it didn't do much for us. The trainer, Roger, is very gentle and quiet, and has a relationship with our horse. We discussed the flight response and how that impells young horses of different breeds in different ways and how different the weegies are in that respect. I have confidence in him that he's not pushing Merit. Merit is still tripping a little - at the walk or trot - but much less than at first. We think its just youth and getting used to his own big body as well as one on top of him - it would probably be difficult to know at this stage if and when he'll not trip again at all. And also, correct me if I've misunderstood, his reluctance to lope now is normal and patience and not pushing will result in a fjord who lopes as well as trots. Anyway, longwinded as usual, thanks to all the posts on this subject both last year and now, from sunny, beautiful Ferndale, WA, Teressa
Re: tripping
This message is from: Laurie Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:29 AM Subject: Re: tripping This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] My horse also trips more often when he has shoes on. Guess we need to try filing the edges of the shoes to round them off. We'll try that next summer. Save yourself some work Mary. You can get shoes that are already rounded. I use them on my QH all the time. Laurie, in NW Washington
Re: tripping
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] A few questions on tripping: Where are these young trippers being worked? On the flat, in a round pen, an arena? Ours were worked in all three situations. The footing in the round pen and arena was sand. Of course, the tripping was/is the most noticeable in the round pen because of the stress it puts on legs and joints. Outside the footing is anything from the beach to a mountain trail. Our horses are raised in pens/paddocks with very uneven footing and lots of mud in the winter, so they are not stall babies. As they get older the tripping seems to be caused by inattention in most cases. My horse also trips more often when he has shoes on. Guess we need to try filing the edges of the shoes to round them off. We'll try that next summer. Also, at what elevation are the trainers attempting to keep their heads? At a comfortable elelvation for the horse's conformation. Depends on how the horse's neck comes out of his chest and what kind of throatlatch he has. In all cases the nose is NOT dragging on the ground a la western pleasure, nor is it overflexed. We have even found that the bigger horse travels best with his nose slightly out at the canter - as if he were balancing himself with his nose. And if they're not use to Fjords, are they taking into consideration the different muscle conformation of the Fjord? The trainer we used spent a lot of time thinking about how he could tailor his Quarter Horse training program/methods to fit the different physical and mental requirements of the Fjords. Quarter Horses are react now horses, where Fjords are thinkers. And, yes, Fjords are built much different than QHs, except at the very early ages when the muscle structure can be quite similar. The differnce seems to come more in the mind bent - some lines of QHs are bred for reining, some for cow work, etc., and Fjords are not. Having watched QHs of different breedings I now see how this is definitely true. Fjords, on the other hand, need time to digest the new ideas. They CAN do the work asked of them, they just learn it a little differently. Imagine how a QH bred specifically for reining, say, would react to a heavy harness and plow. It would probably take some mental and emotional adjustment on his part. A smart trainer - one who truly has the benefit of the horse in mind - figures this out and tailors his program to the individual horse. Of course, not all horses within a specific breed are the same either, so a good trainer is constantly listening to what the horse is telling him. Boy, the stories some horses tell on their previous/current owners or trainers! If you take your horse to a trainer, expect the horse to tell on you - both good and bad! Mary = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/21/99 7:22:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is a grass shoe? A grass shoe os a shoe that is thinner at the toe. It makes the break over faster when the horse moves. Normal shoes are thick and have a little extra in the front. This slows the break over and adds a little extra in the toe that the horse doesn't expect. Thus the horse may trip if he shuffles in front.
Re: tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] What is a grass shoe? Studs? Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My Baldur trips all the time. In fact he went down so badly with a student that he stepped on her hand. I had the farrier put grass shoes on him and roll his toes. These two things seem to have solved the problem for right now. When clients get concerned I tell them it's b/c his short legs are trying to keep up with his big body. He is very front heavy and has a huge neck...so maybe that's part of it. But as I said, the feet adjustments as well as him being fit as a fiddle right now seem to have solved his problems. Kate
Re: tripping
This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] Since I'm new to Fjords I have to ask about the different muscle conformation of the Fjord. Could you be more specific so I'll know more of what I'm dealing with. I really prefer to give my horses the benefit of the doubt when something is not going right but it sure helps to know more about the way a Fjord is built and how they move. Thanks. Debby Larson wrote: This message is from: Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] A few questions on tripping: Where are these young trippers being worked? On the flat, in a round pen, an arena? Also, at what elevation are the trainers attempting to keep their heads? And if they're not use to Fjords, are they taking into consideration the different muscle conformation of the Fjord? Just a few things to take into consideration, though you probably already have. Josie
tripping
This message is from: Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] A few questions on tripping: Where are these young trippers being worked? On the flat, in a round pen, an arena? Also, at what elevation are the trainers attempting to keep their heads? And if they're not use to Fjords, are they taking into consideration the different muscle conformation of the Fjord? Just a few things to take into consideration, though you probably already have. Josie
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good luck Casey but they never grow out of this tripping unless toes trimmed and you keep them awake!! Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
RE: Tripping
This message is from: Mike and Casey Rogillio [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, Jean, I was on the list at the time the long toes, etc., were being discussed. As a matter of fact, that was the first thing that flashed thru my mind! Then I discounted it for several reasons. 1. The farrier had just been out, and we'd decided to not trim Tyr since he's not shod and I knew he'd be getting more work. He only needed a little bit trimmed off and I figured he'd wear it off quickly. 2. He's a bit lazy. When we walk on the roads he drags his toes, as if it's too much effort to pick them up. When I urge him out of the poky pony pace, he picks up his feet nicely. 3. He's young and learning how to balance me and handle his new CG while trotting, a different exercise than walking. So . . . the whole upshot is I think he'll get over it, but believe me, I'm watching the feet very carefully. I do NOT want to go your route! Thanks - Casey Tyr, who ran away from me on the lunge line today and got to do more work than I'd planned.
Re: choppy trot and tripping
This message is from: john martie bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Starfire Farm, L.L.C. wrote: This message is from: Starfire Farm, L.L.C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... On a trail ride, I have noticed that some horses, fjords especially, have a tendency to trip if they are not the lead horse on a trail. To check the tripping horse out, I move him to the front, where he usually picks up interest in what is in front of him, and starts picking up his feet! Beth Starfire Farm in sunny,gorgeous today, Colorado. Beth, Your note on Fjords being in front of the trail ride must be the difference. I wondered that my Fjord so seldom trips. He almost always leads our rides (except sometimes coming home; he like to keep on going new places and sometimes goes SO slowly coming home that we need to put someone ahead of him to lead him on). He is the only horse I have that does NOT trip regularly. Of course, he is also the only horse I have under the age of 20. We have routinely trimmed him a just little more upright with his front toes rolled because our previous pony tended to grow a long toe and trip. Martie
Re: choppy trot and tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nicely put together Beth. It does seem to narrow mostly to lack of attention and your good point about weight distribution. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, Wa. Where after a sleepless night and double/triple checking on horses during 60 to 70 mph winds and torrential rains and after being blown backwards and ducking falling limbs I finally decided they were doing better than I! -Original Message- From: Starfire Farm, L.L.C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 4:29 PM Subject: Re: choppy trot and tripping This message is from: Starfire Farm, L.L.C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] they have not yet learned to balance with someone on their backs, so I Something that I have noticed about fjords is that, while doing ground work with them in a halter, they do tend to step on their own feet a On a trail ride, I have noticed that some horses, fjords especially, have a tendency to trip if they are not the lead horse on a trail. To check the tripping horse out, I move him to the front, where he usually picks up interest in what is in front of him, and starts picking up his feet! Beth Starfire Farm in sunny,gorgeous today, Colorado.
Re: more info on tripping
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] But my question to you Fjord people is --do Fjords take longer to mature strengthwise than other breeds? Yes, Yes Yes, they do take longer to mature! Bjorken was still growing at 7! (he is now 15-2) Three, in my opinion, is still a baby, and you probably shouldn't do a lot of strenuos riding. Problem is, they look so mature, and are so easy going, it's just too easy to do too much too soon. I could also tell a great difference in Bjorken's ability to concentrate when he was five, versus four! There is some thought also, that horse raised up here in Interior Alaska take longer to mature due to the long cold winters. They don't grow all that much through the winter, then have a growth spurt in the spring and summer, so perhaps Bjorken would have matured earllier in , say, Idaho or Washington than here. I do know that their hooves grow very little through the winter here. I had the winter shoes put on the boys in mid October, and the mares were trimmed a couple week before that. The boys are still good as far as their shoes are concerned, twelve weeks later, and when I ask my farrier to come trim the mares during our brief above-zero spell, he looked at them and said, even tho they were bit long, he wouldn't trim them as then they would be too short to deal with the very cold temps that were coming. I'll probably get everybody done in February then they will have a rapid surge in hoof growth in March and I'll get them all redone in April, with summer shoes on the boys. My Farrier won't trim hooves at temperatures below +10 to +15, and even then, if it was extremely cold the day before the hooves may have not had a chance to warm up enough to avoid splitting. I watched one winter as he nailed shoes on Bjarne, whos hooves had not warmed up enough, and saw each nail cause a split in the hoofwall. It was pretty iffy. Several days of temps of +20 or aabove seem to be needed to warm up the lower part of the hoof after a period of below zero weather. I also had a 12 yr old mare that I owned for a year and a half ( a Grabb daughter) and I felt all along that something wasn't right. snip possibly she suffered from EPM, and another thought possibly poisoning. Again, what about EPSM, as we have beeen discussing? Did she show stiffness, etc before she had the foal? Jean In COLD Fairbanks, Alaska, -45F Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: more info on tripping
This message is from: Philis Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello list, As I'm reading all the tripping stories, I happened to think of my own experiences and recall two instances that I'd like some feedback if anybody has any ideas. Two years ago when my mare, Karina, was three I was on a trail ride (about 4-5 miles in length) I could tell that she was getting tired. Her legs seemed to be not responding like I was wishing they would, re: tired. It was a warm fall day and I had been driving her more in the cart all summer than riding her. Did ride in my arena some. Well, I said to my friend that the horse was getting tired and I was hoping she'd make it home and BOOM, down she went to her knees. I got off and walked her home. She was fine, but I felt she just didn't have the energy or the maturity for the ride. Since then she has improved alot strength-wise and endurance. I take her out on sleigh rides and she bucks snow drifts and never brakes stride plus she's due to foal in June. But my question to you Fjord people is --do Fjords take longer to mature strengthwise than other breeds? I also had a 12 yr old mare that I owned for a year and a half ( a Grabb daughter) and I felt all along that something wasn't right. Very nice mare. On a trail ride with her she was having a hard time coming up a hill (that my Arabs not necessarily in condition) coasted right up. I had to get off her and walk her home. (sounds like I'm off the horses more than I'm on!) Anyhow, she foaled 10 months after I bought her. Everything was fine. Then when I weaned the foal I separated mare and foal. The mare seemed very dejected and sad. She developed mastitis, I treated it and she went off feed and six days later she was seizuring and (since the Uof Minnesota was 6-7 hrs away) and I was trying to stabilize her for the trip, as the U large animal vet had recommended. It was hopeless, and we had to put her down. After consulting w/two equine vets (no autopsy), one thought possibly she suffered from EPM, and another thought possibly poisoning. We will never know. This story is an extreme, but I have realized that the Fjords are different than, say, Arabs. How do some of you people out there in cyberspace feel? Philis Anderson, where the sun shines and the temp is about 22F. Good sleighing weather!
Re: choppy trot and tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beth - thats what my guy does - I used to ride alot with other folks - if Sonnie got behind or we were on a thin trail where we had to ride head to tail he kept tripping. He seemed to be better if in front or beside the other horse. I've gotten to the point that I dont like to ride with anyone because of it. Its frustrating! He doesn't seem to trip as much driving. Nancy in NH
Re: tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Nancy T - whats Syno - Flex? Never heard of it. My horse trips to - didn't realize that so many other people had this problem. I am going to try cavelletti as soon as the ground unfreezes! Did you find they helped at all? Nancy in NH
Re: choppy trot and tripping
This message is from: Starfire Farm, L.L.C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's interesting to listen to people's experiences with tripping. When I start colts, fjords as well as other breeds, I am very aware that they have not yet learned to balance with someone on their backs, so I ride very upright with my upper body posture to help keep my balance closer to their rear ends. I start colts using a natural horsemanship method, hence, use a long rein with dressage style contact only rarely. I have experienced these colts tripping, but usually only if they are bored. I will ride them out in the pasture where they have to pay attention to where they are going. Also, in the pasture, they have more room to balance themselves, not being confined to the smaller dimensions of an arena. If they start to go down, I allow them their heads, and they usually catch themselves before going all the way down (so far, anyway, knock on wood! :-). After the colts are moving forward well, in a good, steady rhythm, I start to introduce them to half-halts, which can help rebalance them (with light but steady contact as Jean Gayle suggested.) Something that I have noticed about fjords is that, while doing ground work with them in a halter, they do tend to step on their own feet a lot, until they learn where to put their feet when asking them to bend and double back on a leadline. It's almost like they don't know how to take their feet with them when they move. Once they figure it out, there are no problems. If a more experienced horse starts tripping, I check the position of the rider first. If the rider is leaning on the horse's forehand, the horse is carrying that extra weight on his front legs. Second, I check the horse's impulsion. If he is not moving with purpose and impulsion, there is a greater tendency to trip. If making adjustments for the first two reasons doesn't take care of the tripping, I look for a medical reason. On a trail ride, I have noticed that some horses, fjords especially, have a tendency to trip if they are not the lead horse on a trail. To check the tripping horse out, I move him to the front, where he usually picks up interest in what is in front of him, and starts picking up his feet! Beth Starfire Farm in sunny,gorgeous today, Colorado.
Re: tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am no ferrier but I wonder if you are not adding to a problem caused partially by being so upright??? Has your ferrier tried to balance him more and that might put him back a bit on his heels with the squared off toe so he breaks over more easily? Jean Gayle Aberdeen Wa. where we have another storm coming in with heavy rain big winds and flooding..Sob -Original Message- From: duane trupiano [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjord news letter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 10:22 PM Subject: tripping This message is from: duane trupiano [EMAIL PROTECTED] My big fjord gelding also trips. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and where. He has gone down on his knees twice with me; once in a deep sandy corner of an arena during a lesson coming down from a trot, and once trail riding down the road with other horses at a fast trot. In the arena he often trips at a walk which I blame to laziness. Sometimes he's better after being trimmed fairly short in the toe and upright. He has never been lame.He does carry a lot of weight thru his . be awesome! Nite all. Nancy T.
Re: choppy trot and tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Paula, I will have to dig out that article. You make the point again of inattentive. I ride with my horse on the bit at all times unless we are stretching down or free after a lesson or workout. Also re our horses being big built in front, this does not mean that the leaner ones will not also trip. I wonder if western riders have more trouble with tripping as they ride a loose rein Jean Gayle Aberdeen Wa. where we missed the big winds but it is time to build an ark -Original Message- From: Paula Steinmetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 5:10 AM Subject: Re: choppy trot and tripping This message is from: Paula Steinmetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:12:08 -0800 From: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Choppy trot This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean- Jane Savoie had an excellent article in Dressage Today (May 1998) for getting the horse thinking forward that is, responding to the leg (and seat, voice and whip) with a light touch, even if the horse has been dead to the leg for a long time. If you send me a SASE, I will send you (and anyone else with this problem) a copy of the article. I wonder if the tripping and lack of response to the leg - driving aids- aren't related (?). A horse that isn't in front of the leg and working from back to front, is going to be on the forehand (where the majority of the weight for our guys is) and prone to tripping. I am thinking out loud here, but Menomonee Falls, WI 53051
Re: Tying up/ tripping
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mary, you mention that your horse had worked the day before his problems. What were the conditions that day in terms of heat and humidity? Tripping - From time to time I have had tripping problems. The two things I would recommend are to be sure to not let the horse go too long between trimmings (the tripper might need a somewhat shorter interval than the non tripper), and secondly, to roll the toes on the front, whether with shoes or not. Also be sure you have a steep enough angle on the trim. Dave, The weather conditions were the usual for March in the Pacific Northwest - abyssmal. Rain, wind, temps in the 40's - but the clinic was held inside an enclosed arena with one end door ajar. The arena was not heated, so it was cool in there. He was worked hard, walked to cool out, blanketed with a light sheet, given a sip of water and then let stand a while before loading up for the 20 minute trip home. His back legs were shaky when I walked him to his stall when we got home, so we bedded him down in a boxstall for the night. The next morning he was down and very hard to get up, so treatment started from there. We find that he trips if he goes even a week too long between shoeing/trimming. And he needs it every six to seven weeks. I need to check if my new farrier is rolling his toes when he works on him - I always did that when I was doing my own trimming, which I no longer do. Some things we have to give up as our back ages. Thanks for your advice. Mary == Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Tying up/ tripping
This message is from: Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mary, you mention that your horse had worked the day before his problems. What were the conditions that day in terms of heat and humidity? Tripping - From time to time I have had tripping problems. The two things I would recommend are to be sure to not let the horse go too long between trimmings (the tripper might need a somewhat shorter interval than the non tripper), and secondly, to roll the toes on the front, whether with shoes or not. Also be sure you have a steep enough angle on the trim.
Re: choppy trot and tripping
This message is from: Paula Steinmetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:12:08 -0800 From: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Choppy trot This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have one problem with it and that is that my new horse has = dead sides. It will take a bit of work to get him to feel the leg. = Jean Jean- Jane Savoie had an excellent article in Dressage Today (May 1998) for getting the horse thinking forward that is, responding to the leg (and seat, voice and whip) with a light touch, even if the horse has been dead to the leg for a long time. If you send me a SASE, I will send you (and anyone else with this problem) a copy of the article. I wonder if the tripping and lack of response to the leg - driving aids- aren't related (?). A horse that isn't in front of the leg and working from back to front, is going to be on the forehand (where the majority of the weight for our guys is) and prone to tripping. I am thinking out loud here, but once mine was responding to a light leg aid, the tripping (except for the inattentive moments!) has ceased to be a problem. After putting Jane's lesson into practice, his progress (and mine as rider) increased dramatically. He went from Intro level (no canter) to second level work since May last year! Inattentiveness can be dealt with with a simple half-halt which she also explains in this article, but it means riding (read - rider attention on the horse) all the time. My address is Paula Steinmetz W166 N8596 Theodore Avenue Menomonee Falls, WI 53051
Re: tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Ernie, I do not think Gunnar was there then as he has been in Calif for awhile. Poor guy is outside now in very windy, cold weather and must be wondering where he is. Thanks for the good wishes and yes the toe can be squared when shoes are used. It makes for an easier breakover. Jean Gayle Aberdeen Wa. with winds to 70 mph, heavy rain and 38 degrees. It is agony! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 7:17 PM Subject: Re: tripping This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forwarded by Ernie Botte on 01/27/99 09:07 PM --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 01/27/99 01:24:16 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Ernie Botte) Subject: Re: tripping Hi Jean G - thanks for the info. Think I'll try that wild horse trim - can you do that if your horse has shoes? Good luck with your new guy - his name is familiar. I looked at a fjord I think they called him Gunnar here in NH a couple of years ago - he was at a camp with his owners daughter. Is it the same one? Hope it works out well with the two of you.
tripping
This message is from: duane trupiano [EMAIL PROTECTED] My big fjord gelding also trips. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when and where. He has gone down on his knees twice with me; once in a deep sandy corner of an arena during a lesson coming down from a trot, and once trail riding down the road with other horses at a fast trot. In the arena he often trips at a walk which I blame to laziness. Sometimes he's better after being trimmed fairly short in the toe and upright. He has never been lame.He does carry a lot of weight thru his shoulders. he's had lots of trainig over cavellettis and jumps quite handily but I know it's hard for him to shift his weight to his hindend. He'll go for hours on a trail ride and still be hyped, but act like he can't last 10 minutes in the arena. I'm almost considering trying a chiropractoralmost, since I'm really not convinced that he has a problem. I tried syno-flex last summer, but am not sure I saw much difference. I've owned him for 5 years and it's stayed about the same. It can be agravating, and scary at times, but the good outweighs the badhe can be awesome! Nite all. Nancy T.
Re: tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forwarded by Ernie Botte on 01/27/99 09:07 PM --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 01/27/99 01:24:16 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Ernie Botte) Subject: Re: tripping Hi Jean G - thanks for the info. Think I'll try that wild horse trim - can you do that if your horse has shoes? Good luck with your new guy - his name is familiar. I looked at a fjord I think they called him Gunnar here in NH a couple of years ago - he was at a camp with his owners daughter. Is it the same one? Hope it works out well with the two of you.
Re: tripping
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bjorken tripped with me after a long and strenuous but great lesson in which we were practicing canter departs. At the end of the lesson I was trotting him around my small arena, where the footing was very hard, pocked with hoofprints and rough and he stumbled, went down to his nose and I was over his head in an instant. My instructor turned around to see us go down without any warning. My heavy glasses gave me black eyes (and I later dicovered the top bit of my nose was broken) but after ascertaining that I could move everything, my instructor made me get back on and work him in half halts, as she thought he was running through the half halts. He was obviously inattentive and maybe a little tired and lazy when he tripped. I was wearing my helmet, think goodness and don't even get on a horse without one anymore. I felt the shock in my neck and shoulders and thought that I would be terribly sore from the fall, but took some Ibuprofen and a lot of TRAUMEEL, a homeopathic medicine for trauma and had absolutely no soreness in my neck and shoulders! The TRAUMEEL works! Bjorken will stumble and trip when I ride him in the field and he is bored and lazy, but when I trot him over the series of caveletti set up along the fence he has an energetic, wonderful trot with Impulsion. He will actually try to veer over to trot the caveletti if I let him, and seems to really enjoy it. He is very sure footed out on the trail. Oh yes, we decided that he was overdue for a trim and reset of his shoes the day he tripped, and that may have contributed to it (Long toes) Jean in COLD Fairbanks, Alaska, -40 F At 10:29 AM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) When you have your horse on the bit they are not so heavy in front and usually are paying more attention. On the bit as you probably know is a firm yet giving rein so the horse is balanced. ** Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) When you have your horse on the bit they are not so heavy in front and usually are paying more attention. On the bit as you probably know is a firm yet giving rein so the horse is balanced. You might have trouble with this re a western style bit. Experts??? I just felt that other than my ferriers remarks about knees knocking out the other knee they were being lazy and their straight little legs dont make it easy for them to pick up their feet. Jean Gayle Aberdeen 40 degrees, windy and rainy. This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't done anything yet to stop the tripping. I guess I would start the trotting poles and cavelletti. The canter is non-existent. She needs a lot of work there. I would appreciate any hints. We don't have an arena to work in, nor any open spaces, just a driveway. Suzan Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't done anything yet to stop the tripping. I guess I would start the trotting poles and cavelletti. The canter is non-existent. She needs a lot of work there. I would appreciate any hints. We don't have an arena to work in, nor any open spaces, just a driveway. Suzan
tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Jean G - this is Nancy, my fjord trips also. Even when it seems he's together Hes fine in the ring - has a hard time on uneven ground - especially if theres another horse rite in front of him trotting. What do you do to help? This has been a concern of mine for quite awhile. Cant seem to make it better!
Re: tripping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) Hi, what have you done to correct it and when does your horse trip? On the circle? Loose rein? Canter? Jean Gayle This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In response to Jean Gayle's question if other Fjords trip ... My horse trips a lot, too. Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
