[flexcoders] Re: Weborb serialzing issue
You are right, .NET cannot guess that my value should be a float. Having said this an issue still remains. I believe Flex types any numerical value as a Number in an Object. The problem is that when we debug on the .Net side we get an int for the corresonding Number in flex. An int is only encoded on one byte and therefor cannot hold decimal values. Weborb should translate a Number to a double and then casting could work. I have read this on the weborb forum but i'm not sure the issue was resolved. Anyway, to circumvent my problem i am sending a JSON object instead of an AS Object and saving it as is in the DB. Thanks for your help. T. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, valdhor valdhorli...@... wrote: With no strong typing on either the Flex or .NET side, how is .NET supposed to figure out the data type for you? WebORB is just a set of classes and methods built in a specific language (.NET in this case). If .NET passes WebORB a chunk of bytes, how is WebORB meant to figure out that it contains a string, int, float or whatever? You will have to type these properties at some point in time. If it were me, I would try to coerce a value to an int first. If there was an error, try a float. If there is still an error, try a string. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, gordofeatherfoot anthony.janssens@ wrote: First off thanks for your reply, 1. The corresonding object on the .NET side is a Dictionnary (which is the equivalent of the Object in AS3 I believe). So the properties are not typed. 2. I can't send a string and explicitly cast it to a float because the object i am sending is dynamic (this is why we use the generic Object in AS3). It will have an unknown numer of properties of various types. I could setup a mechanisme whereby i send the type of the property with the value and then parse the object on the .net side and cast each property to it's specific type. But that seems very heavy for this simple problem. I would have excpected weborb to be able to make the difference between an intger and a float in a dynamic object comming from Flex. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, valdhor valdhorlists@ wrote: I don't use .NET (I use PHP) but two things off the top of my head... The property of the corresponding object on the .NET side is typed as an int. You are actually sending what looks like an int so .NET is coercing it for you. You could also try sending the property as a string and then coercing it to a float on the .NET side. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, gordofeatherfoot anthony.janssens@ wrote: Hello all, I don't know if it this is the right place to ask but i have had little (not to say no) feedback from the weborb forum, so i apologize if this is not appropriate. I am sending a simple AS3 Object to my .net backend through weborb. This object has a property 'foo' with a decimal value. This object gets mapped to a dictionnary in .net but the value of 'foo' is serialized to an integer. Anyone have an idea of why this is? Thanks, Tony.
[flexcoders] Re: Weborb serialzing issue
I don't use .NET (I use PHP) but two things off the top of my head... The property of the corresponding object on the .NET side is typed as an int. You are actually sending what looks like an int so .NET is coercing it for you. You could also try sending the property as a string and then coercing it to a float on the .NET side. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, gordofeatherfoot anthony.janss...@... wrote: Hello all, I don't know if it this is the right place to ask but i have had little (not to say no) feedback from the weborb forum, so i apologize if this is not appropriate. I am sending a simple AS3 Object to my .net backend through weborb. This object has a property 'foo' with a decimal value. This object gets mapped to a dictionnary in .net but the value of 'foo' is serialized to an integer. Anyone have an idea of why this is? Thanks, Tony.
[flexcoders] Re: Weborb serialzing issue
First off thanks for your reply, 1. The corresonding object on the .NET side is a Dictionnary (which is the equivalent of the Object in AS3 I believe). So the properties are not typed. 2. I can't send a string and explicitly cast it to a float because the object i am sending is dynamic (this is why we use the generic Object in AS3). It will have an unknown numer of properties of various types. I could setup a mechanisme whereby i send the type of the property with the value and then parse the object on the .net side and cast each property to it's specific type. But that seems very heavy for this simple problem. I would have excpected weborb to be able to make the difference between an intger and a float in a dynamic object comming from Flex. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, valdhor valdhorli...@... wrote: I don't use .NET (I use PHP) but two things off the top of my head... The property of the corresponding object on the .NET side is typed as an int. You are actually sending what looks like an int so .NET is coercing it for you. You could also try sending the property as a string and then coercing it to a float on the .NET side. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, gordofeatherfoot anthony.janssens@ wrote: Hello all, I don't know if it this is the right place to ask but i have had little (not to say no) feedback from the weborb forum, so i apologize if this is not appropriate. I am sending a simple AS3 Object to my .net backend through weborb. This object has a property 'foo' with a decimal value. This object gets mapped to a dictionnary in .net but the value of 'foo' is serialized to an integer. Anyone have an idea of why this is? Thanks, Tony.
[flexcoders] Re: Weborb serialzing issue
With no strong typing on either the Flex or .NET side, how is .NET supposed to figure out the data type for you? WebORB is just a set of classes and methods built in a specific language (.NET in this case). If .NET passes WebORB a chunk of bytes, how is WebORB meant to figure out that it contains a string, int, float or whatever? You will have to type these properties at some point in time. If it were me, I would try to coerce a value to an int first. If there was an error, try a float. If there is still an error, try a string. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, gordofeatherfoot anthony.janss...@... wrote: First off thanks for your reply, 1. The corresonding object on the .NET side is a Dictionnary (which is the equivalent of the Object in AS3 I believe). So the properties are not typed. 2. I can't send a string and explicitly cast it to a float because the object i am sending is dynamic (this is why we use the generic Object in AS3). It will have an unknown numer of properties of various types. I could setup a mechanisme whereby i send the type of the property with the value and then parse the object on the .net side and cast each property to it's specific type. But that seems very heavy for this simple problem. I would have excpected weborb to be able to make the difference between an intger and a float in a dynamic object comming from Flex. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, valdhor valdhorlists@ wrote: I don't use .NET (I use PHP) but two things off the top of my head... The property of the corresponding object on the .NET side is typed as an int. You are actually sending what looks like an int so .NET is coercing it for you. You could also try sending the property as a string and then coercing it to a float on the .NET side. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, gordofeatherfoot anthony.janssens@ wrote: Hello all, I don't know if it this is the right place to ask but i have had little (not to say no) feedback from the weborb forum, so i apologize if this is not appropriate. I am sending a simple AS3 Object to my .net backend through weborb. This object has a property 'foo' with a decimal value. This object gets mapped to a dictionnary in .net but the value of 'foo' is serialized to an integer. Anyone have an idea of why this is? Thanks, Tony.
[flexcoders] Re: Weborb
My 2c... I use WebORB with PHP. My reasons are twofold. One, it just works. I started out with AMFPHP but it seemed very fragile. One day it would work just fine, the next I would get delivery in doubt error messages and reverting to the older code would not get rid of them. WebORB has been rock solid since I switched. Two, if I do need a support infrastructure (Or my company wants it) it's nice to know that it is available. HTH. Steve --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Scott h...@... wrote: I briefly looked at Weborb last fall but decided against doing anything with it since it was fairly expensive. I do remoteobject on a coldfusion backend. With Flex builder I get some code generation if I so desire (and the code doesn't look too bad either) and I understand that is in Weborb as well. The sales person I talked to didn't seem really that technical. Can someone tell me the real benefits in using weborb if there are any? Thanks Scott
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb
One cool thing about WebORB vs AMFPHP is that is how the services-config is handeled. I belevie that if an app is built with AMPFP, your tied to that implementation, whereas WebORB s deployment is more modular. My 2c... I use WebORB with PHP. Alan
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb
Yes/no. When I talked to them they stated that the CF version isn't due out until Summer. I could also use PHP; it's just that I was primarily a CF programmer before coming to Flex so CF was a natural fit for me. Setting up a data connection between flex and my server is trivial at best so there has to be something more to Weborb than just that data connectivity. I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. Scott From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcod...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Piller Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:01 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb Hi Scott, Were you looking into WebORB for your Flex to CF connectivity? Regards, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Scott h...@... wrote: I briefly looked at Weborb last fall but decided against doing anything with it since it was fairly expensive. I do remoteobject on a coldfusion backend. With Flex builder I get some code generation if I so desire (and the code doesn't look too bad either) and I understand that is in Weborb as well. The sales person I talked to didn't seem really that technical. Can someone tell me the real benefits in using weborb if there are any? Thanks Scott -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner http://www.mailscanner.info/ , and is believed to be clean.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb
I'm not sure why you need WebOrb for Cf - Flex communication. CF talk to Flex via AMF over remoteObejct calls out of the box. It can also push data to Flex by leveraging the inbuild LCDS bits. I'm told WebOrb for CF has some nice code generation but I am yet to look into it as CF and Flex just seam to work weel together for me. Paul. http://flexcf.com Hi Scott, Were you looking into WebORB for your Flex to CF connectivity? Regards, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Scott h...@... wrote: I briefly looked at Weborb last fall but decided against doing anything with it since it was fairly expensive. I do remoteobject on a coldfusion backend. With Flex builder I get some code generation if I so desire (and the code doesn't look too bad either) and I understand that is in Weborb as well. The sales person I talked to didn't seem really that technical. Can someone tell me the real benefits in using weborb if there are any? Thanks Scott
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb
I thought livecycle requires a license? I've been interested in playing with that... It sounds like you have. Do you know how to size a server for using Flex against a LCDS? Scott From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcod...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kukiel Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:47 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb I'm not sure why you need WebOrb for Cf - Flex communication. CF talk to Flex via AMF over remoteObejct calls out of the box. It can also push data to Flex by leveraging the inbuild LCDS bits. I'm told WebOrb for CF has some nice code generation but I am yet to look into it as CF and Flex just seam to work weel together for me. Paul. http://flexcf.com http://flexcf.com Hi Scott, Were you looking into WebORB for your Flex to CF connectivity? Regards, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Scott h...@... wrote: I briefly looked at Weborb last fall but decided against doing anything with it since it was fairly expensive. I do remoteobject on a coldfusion backend. With Flex builder I get some code generation if I so desire (and the code doesn't look too bad either) and I understand that is in Weborb as well. The sales person I talked to didn't seem really that technical. Can someone tell me the real benefits in using weborb if there are any? Thanks Scott -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner http://www.mailscanner.info/ , and is believed to be clean.
[flexcoders] Re: Weborb
Hi Scott, Were you looking into WebORB for your Flex to CF connectivity? Regards, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Scott h...@... wrote: I briefly looked at Weborb last fall but decided against doing anything with it since it was fairly expensive. I do remoteobject on a coldfusion backend. With Flex builder I get some code generation if I so desire (and the code doesn't look too bad either) and I understand that is in Weborb as well. The sales person I talked to didn't seem really that technical. Can someone tell me the real benefits in using weborb if there are any? Thanks Scott
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb to return XML data
This depends on what you really mean. XML is a data format. AMF and HTTPService and SOAP are transport protocols. You can send XML formatted data via any protocol. One of the benefits of xml is it is a self-describing structure and you do not need design and build your own DTOs or be concerned about transport serilazation. Some of the other technologies help with this as well. Tracy From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcod...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gjessup1 Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 7:38 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Weborb to return XML data Why would you want to do this? I would adjust the graph to take an array collection or object as a datasource. I think you could hack it in your C# code to pass a xml object or array with xml in it. But To me it defeats the purpose of weborb. I would take the approach of changing the datasource of the chart. If you post or PM me some sample code, I'd be happy to help. -Greg --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , timgerr tgallag...@... wrote: I have been working with weborb and I think it is great. I am working on a graph that needs XML data that I have generated via php and mysql. I was wondering of Weborb can return XML and if you have any examples of this. Thanks for the, timgerr
[flexcoders] Re: Weborb to return XML data
Why would you want to do this? I would adjust the graph to take an array collection or object as a datasource. I think you could hack it in your C# code to pass a xml object or array with xml in it. But To me it defeats the purpose of weborb. I would take the approach of changing the datasource of the chart. If you post or PM me some sample code, I'd be happy to help. -Greg --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, timgerr tgallag...@... wrote: I have been working with weborb and I think it is great. I am working on a graph that needs XML data that I have generated via php and mysql. I was wondering of Weborb can return XML and if you have any examples of this. Thanks for the, timgerr
[flexcoders] Re: Weborb to return XML data
AFAIK Weborb sends and receives only via AMF. Of course, why would you want to use Weborb to receive XML? Just use a standard HTTPService call. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, timgerr tgallag...@... wrote: I have been working with weborb and I think it is great. I am working on a graph that needs XML data that I have generated via php and mysql. I was wondering of Weborb can return XML and if you have any examples of this. Thanks for the, timgerr
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB 3.5 - Error: Call to a member function getServiceURI() on a non-objec
Unknown. I just downloaded WebORB 3.5, unzipped it, uploaded it to my server and pointed my browser to weborb.php. The response was: WebORB v3.5.0 I would make sure you are pointing to the correct directory where weborb.php is located. Also, you may want to post to the WebORB forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flashorb/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Hyder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just downloaded WebORB 3.5 and got done setting it up. Now, my project is setup on my system (xampp / php 5.2.5). And when I point my browser to weborb.php, I get the following fatal error: Fatal error: Call to a member function getServiceURI() on a non-object in C:\xampp\htdocs\projects\gulfspecials\weborb\Message\Request.php on line 75 Anyone know how to fix this problem?
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB RTMP
Hi, make sure to reference weborb-services-config.xml instead of services-config.xml. Thanks, Mark
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB Installation Error
Hi, Do you use WebORB for Java or .NET? If it is .NET, try to run the diagnostics page at the following URL and let me know what the page displays: http://localhost/weborb30/diagnostics.aspx Also, the following forum might be a better place to post WebORB related questions: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flashorb/ Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, NileAge, Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anybody can solve this problem? After installing WebORB 3.0 but some tabs in WebORB Management Consol (localhost )do not appear a management tab Plz help me
[flexcoders] Re: WEBORB config for remote hosting
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Montse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks candysmate. I've been surfing seeking Mark's explaination, but did'nt find it. Do u have a link? Also, downloaded .NET and RoR Weborb zips in order to have docs (PHP version has not doc), but it asks for ISS and I have'nt. Can I have Weborb doc? Thanks 1000 Montse -- Montse, I see that you've also posted your question onto the WebOrb forum. This is the best place as you will probably get the reply you require from Mark. I used this to get started with WebOrb: http://www.themidnightcoders.com/weborb/php/gettingstarted.htm HTH best, Graham
[flexcoders] Re: WEBORB config for remote hosting
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Montse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I've no server in mi PC. I'm developing my first test app with WEBORB PHP. I've extracted the WEBORB distribution zip in a folder in my server (remote hosting = Hostgo) The getting started guide in the console shows how to set URLs and folders in a localhost system, but mine is not localhosted, so: 1. MUST I have a web server in my developer PC? 2. What URLs and root folders and so on must I write in the Flex project set up in order to use WEBORB installed in a remote hosting? (I will install the compiled app in that remote hosting) 3. Where in the console is the services panel? Thanks a lot Montse -- Long story short: you're best setting up a webserver, php and a database on your local machine, developing it there and then uploading your compiled Flex app to the hosted server, and importing your database via phpmyadmin (assuming your database is MySQL). See the forum on www.themidnightcoders.com for pointers from Mark Piller on running weborb from a hosted server. Mark explains this well. Good luck!
[flexcoders] Re: WebOrb and the new Flex Article question (AMF0 vs AMF3)
Hi guys, We're about to open up AMF3 and make it available in the free Standard Edition. Stay tuned for an announcement. I will post more info once the release is available (should be any moment now). Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Samuel R. Neff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AMF3 is a new format and is more compact than AMF0. It doesn't duplicate custom class definitions or strings and has some other optimizations. AMF0 is still good though and more efficient than any non-binary communications (ie AJAX XML or JSON). HTH, Sam --- We're Hiring! Seeking a passionate developer to join our team building Flex based products. Position is in the Washington D.C. metro area. If interested contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Pearson Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 4:13 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] WebOrb and the new Flex Article question (AMF0 vs AMF3) I've skimmed through the new Flex Article about remoting to .NET through webOrb. Sounds pretty cool and I'm looking to forward to trying it out. On the webOrb licensing page it says that the Standard (free) Edition of WebORB allows for Flash Remoting (AMF0) but not Flex Remoting (AMF3). What's the difference? Is one faster? Can I not use webOrb for free with flex? (I don't want to limit my self to 5 ips with the developer edition) I thought flex was flash, so it seems like AMF0 would work? Thanks
[flexcoders] Re: WebOrb and the new Flex Article question (AMF0 vs AMF3)
Woohoo :) Well that solves my problem pretty well :). --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, We're about to open up AMF3 and make it available in the free Standard Edition. Stay tuned for an announcement. I will post more info once the release is available (should be any moment now). Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Samuel R. Neff srneff.lists@ wrote: AMF3 is a new format and is more compact than AMF0. It doesn't duplicate custom class definitions or strings and has some other optimizations. AMF0 is still good though and more efficient than any non-binary communications (ie AJAX XML or JSON). HTH, Sam --- We're Hiring! Seeking a passionate developer to join our team building Flex based products. Position is in the Washington D.C. metro area. If interested contact careers@ -Original Message- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Pearson Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 4:13 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] WebOrb and the new Flex Article question (AMF0 vs AMF3) I've skimmed through the new Flex Article about remoting to .NET through webOrb. Sounds pretty cool and I'm looking to forward to trying it out. On the webOrb licensing page it says that the Standard (free) Edition of WebORB allows for Flash Remoting (AMF0) but not Flex Remoting (AMF3). What's the difference? Is one faster? Can I not use webOrb for free with flex? (I don't want to limit my self to 5 ips with the developer edition) I thought flex was flash, so it seems like AMF0 would work? Thanks
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That said, it means all the features one would find in our .NET edition are going to be available in WebORB for PHP Can you already give us a rough timeline when the professional PHP edition of WebORB will be available? Stefan
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Thank for your reply Patrick! Now we are waiting for Mark Piller reply's. :o) Good luck in your new job! David www.ideeclic.com --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Mineault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keep in mind that AMFPHP may go under the radar (or drop off it completely) as the lead developer has decided to pursue another career and I have not seen any announcement of anybody else taking over for him. I'll be releasing amfphp 2 before I retire, and I have someone here that is interested in picking up amfphp, someone I can't mention just yet but trust me that my successor will be a very talented and respected member of the community that I am sure will do an awesome job with the project. As to which you should choose between amfphp and WebORB, it depends. Mark loves his WebORB, and I love amfphp, but they are different projects, and have different design goals, so that either one is most appropriate for different uses. The differences are subtle though, I'll be the first to admit, which is why I wasn't particularly thrilled about WebORB and SabreAmf when they first came out, as I felt it was a duplication of efforts (much like the well-publicized argument over SWX with Aral). But regardless, the effort has already been put in, so there's no use in stopping it now. I'll restate the design goals of amfphp from the homepage: - Nothing required - PHP4/PHP5 compatible, no extensions needed - Low footprint, lightweight, fast - Convention over configuration (service and class mapping) - Can be embedded into a framework (see CakeAmfphphttp://cakeforge.org/projects/cakeamfphp/, Seagull http://trac.seagullproject.org/ticket/1378) - Services are non-specific PHP classes that are portable to anything without code change - Productivity tools included (service browser, code gen, profiling) - Batteries included - XML-RPC, JSON - Not a framework by itself (use your own) I'd like if Mark could put up a similar statement of design goals for weborb so that users can make an informed decision. As for the issue of the AMF extension, I've contacted Mark about it, and in theory weborb could be made compatible, and SabreAMF will be eventually (as far as I can tell). I don't think Mark wants to do it though, perhaps because of the way the serializer is implemented on their side. My personal feeling is that the serializer and unserializer in WebORB are misadapted to the realities of PHP, split into several classes for doing simple, computationally intensive things, but one could argue (and I'm sure that Mark would) that clarity of code was chosen over performance, a valid decision if it doesn't affect performance that much (and Mark is right, the 50-200ms difference won't really make a difference in most projects, but in some which have very high traffic it most definitely will, which is why the AMF extension was made). Patrick
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Thanks Patrick, I'm happy to talk about the goals we have for WebORB. The vision for the product is to provide the best possible design/runtime platform for Flex applications and .NET/PHP/Ruby backends. Our goals include: - non-intrusive approach - ease-of-use - simplicity of integration - extensibility - increased developer productivity plus all the usual suspects expected anywhere from a one person shop to a major enterprise: - performance - reliability - scalability Currently we're wrapping up a new release for WebORB for .NET and as soon as it is out in production, we will port all the new features to PHP and Ruby. That said, it means all the features one would find in our .NET edition are going to be available in WebORB for PHP (and Ruby). For example, take a look at WebORB Data Management for Flex (http://www.themidnightcoders.com/weborb/dotnet/wdmf-faq.shtm), this is something Flex/PHP developers would love to have. On top of this add real-time messaging, remote shared object support, data push, code generator, performance monitor, etc. I highly value code clarity and elegant software design and I am strongly convinced that a product with a clear and well-thought out design does NOT have to suffer in the area of performance. All our products share the same design. As a result, porting features or fixing bugs takes only a fraction of time than creating a new implementation from scratch. For instance, it took us only three weeks to create the very first release of WebORB for PHP. And lastly, when choosing an open-source product (and this is strictly my personal opinion) I would recommend going for one backed by a commercial entity. After all, if I bet my business on it, I want to make sure I have someone to call at 3am in the morning if things go bad. Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Mineault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keep in mind that AMFPHP may go under the radar (or drop off it completely) as the lead developer has decided to pursue another career and I have not seen any announcement of anybody else taking over for him. I'll be releasing amfphp 2 before I retire, and I have someone here that is interested in picking up amfphp, someone I can't mention just yet but trust me that my successor will be a very talented and respected member of the community that I am sure will do an awesome job with the project. As to which you should choose between amfphp and WebORB, it depends. Mark loves his WebORB, and I love amfphp, but they are different projects, and have different design goals, so that either one is most appropriate for different uses. The differences are subtle though, I'll be the first to admit, which is why I wasn't particularly thrilled about WebORB and SabreAmf when they first came out, as I felt it was a duplication of efforts (much like the well-publicized argument over SWX with Aral). But regardless, the effort has already been put in, so there's no use in stopping it now. I'll restate the design goals of amfphp from the homepage: - Nothing required - PHP4/PHP5 compatible, no extensions needed - Low footprint, lightweight, fast - Convention over configuration (service and class mapping) - Can be embedded into a framework (see CakeAmfphphttp://cakeforge.org/projects/cakeamfphp/, Seagull http://trac.seagullproject.org/ticket/1378) - Services are non-specific PHP classes that are portable to anything without code change - Productivity tools included (service browser, code gen, profiling) - Batteries included - XML-RPC, JSON - Not a framework by itself (use your own) I'd like if Mark could put up a similar statement of design goals for weborb so that users can make an informed decision. As for the issue of the AMF extension, I've contacted Mark about it, and in theory weborb could be made compatible, and SabreAMF will be eventually (as far as I can tell). I don't think Mark wants to do it though, perhaps because of the way the serializer is implemented on their side. My personal feeling is that the serializer and unserializer in WebORB are misadapted to the realities of PHP, split into several classes for doing simple, computationally intensive things, but one could argue (and I'm sure that Mark would) that clarity of code was chosen over performance, a valid decision if it doesn't affect performance that much (and Mark is right, the 50-200ms difference won't really make a difference in most projects, but in some which have very high traffic it most definitely will, which is why the AMF extension was made). Patrick
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Keep in mind that AMFPHP may go under the radar (or drop off it completely) as the lead developer has decided to pursue another career and I have not seen any announcement of anybody else taking over for him. Brian On 10 Apr 2007 06:57:44 -0700, nxzone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. -- Brian Dunphy
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
WebORB for PHP is available as an open source and commercial product today and it will stay that way. There are no plans to stop the open source offering. On the contrary, we have grand plans for it later this year. Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, nxzone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain enchanter_saj@ wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone nxzone@ wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Sodo you suggest me to use WebORB for a big web application? WebORB is stable, fast, secure... ? --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WebORB for PHP is available as an open source and commercial product today and it will stay that way. There are no plans to stop the open source offering. On the contrary, we have grand plans for it later this year. Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, nxzone nxzone@ wrote: It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain enchanter_saj@ wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone nxzone@ wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
WebORB, is really cool and easy, I love it, but I have to say too, that with the last releaseof AMFPHP, the performance is really good or better than WebORB. I changed the engine for AMFPHP beacuse hat better performance, I look forward for new enhanced that Mark and his team made in WebORB for PHP, Best, Guillermo 10 Apr 2007 09:22:30 -0700, Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: WebORB for PHP is available as an open source and commercial product today and it will stay that way. There are no plans to stop the open source offering. On the contrary, we have grand plans for it later this year. Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, nxzone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain enchanter_saj@ wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone nxzone@ wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Do you have any examples of your integration with amfphp and flex 2. thanks -Original Message- From: guillermo Pared [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: 4/10/07 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application WebORB, is really cool and easy, I love it, but I have to say too, that with the last releaseof AMFPHP, the performance is really good or better than WebORB. I changed the engine for AMFPHP beacuse hat better performance, I look forward for new enhanced that Mark and his team made in WebORB for PHP, Best, Guillermo 10 Apr 2007 09:22:30 -0700, Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: WebORB for PHP is available as an open source and commercial product today and it will stay that way. There are no plans to stop the open source offering. On the contrary, we have grand plans for it later this year. Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, nxzone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain enchanter_saj@ wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone nxzone@ wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
You can have some sample here: http://code.google.com/p/adobe-php-sdk/ # Adobe Spry Framework # WebORB for PHP # AMFPHP # SabreAMF --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Agent RR-007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have any examples of your integration with amfphp and flex 2. thanks -Original Message- From: guillermo Pared [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: 4/10/07 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application WebORB, is really cool and easy, I love it, but I have to say too, that with the last releaseof AMFPHP, the performance is really good or better than WebORB. I changed the engine for AMFPHP beacuse hat better performance, I look forward for new enhanced that Mark and his team made in WebORB for PHP, Best, Guillermo 10 Apr 2007 09:22:30 -0700, Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: WebORB for PHP is available as an open source and commercial product today and it will stay that way. There are no plans to stop the open source offering. On the contrary, we have grand plans for it later this year. Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, nxzone nxzone@ wrote: It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain enchanter_saj@ wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone nxzone@ wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
I recently changed over from weborb back to amfphp. amfphp1.9 with the server running the php amf plugin is definitely faster in my tests here. ymmv Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Amfphp is realy goood and hopefully within few time ..we will have data services in it and I think weborb will miss this functionality Impudent1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently changed over from weborb back to amfphp. amfphp1.9 with the server running the php amf plugin is definitely faster in my tests here. ymmv Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Hi Mark, That is true, AMFPHP with the native AMFText, is faster is great, but just a few providers offers this native serialization. In my test I used normal, AMFPHP Vs, WebOrb, because my provider don't offer to me the native serialization. I tell you I loved WebOrb, was cool and easy, vs the before version of AMFPHP with comics $MethodName... und so weiter... but now AMFPHP is more clear and better performance. I going to check againg my test, and I talk you when WebOrb, comming better, I changed againg for WebOrb. and made this public. I check (one by week) what's comming on in WebOrb. go ahead !!!, Viele Grüße, Guillermo 10 Apr 2007 12:58:12 -0700, Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Guillermo, Are you talking about the release of AMFPHP that introduced native (C) AMF serialization? If that's the case, then obviously the implementation would be faster. However, in a real-world scenario does it really matter if the serialization time is 50ms vs. 200ms when the actual method invocation takes 2 seconds? :) Additionally, I heard people saying it is quite hard to find a hosting provider willing to deploy a custom native PHP module (which is what C serializer for AMFPHP is). Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, guillermo Pared [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WebORB, is really cool and easy, I love it, but I have to say too, that with the last releaseof AMFPHP, the performance is really good or better than WebORB. I changed the engine for AMFPHP beacuse hat better performance, I look forward for new enhanced that Mark and his team made in WebORB for PHP, Best, Guillermo 10 Apr 2007 09:22:30 -0700, Mark Piller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: WebORB for PHP is available as an open source and commercial product today and it will stay that way. There are no plans to stop the open source offering. On the contrary, we have grand plans for it later this year. Cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comflexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, nxzone nxzone@ wrote: It's a OpenSource project and it's better to use OpenSource solutions... You think WebORB will be only commercial in few years? The free PHP version is not usable for a big project? http://sourceforge.net/projects/timeline/ http://www.ideeclic.com/clients/133-cspi/v6/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sajid Hussain enchanter_saj@ wrote: WebOrb are just ready to show Thier commercial edition with DataManagment like Flex Data Services ,if u could buy that in future then go for weborb php else amfphp 1.9 seems also good and I hope not surely when but they realy shud do something more then RPC calls in it.amfphp is working with flash from good time Let me KNow which framework u r going to use for ur application I am also confused I tried for zend but it seems maybe have to go for cakeamf but current version dont work with amf 1.9 Thanks nxzone nxzone@ wrote: Which between these both do you prefer? Which want is more stable, fast, simple WebORB VS AMFPHP - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
Keep in mind that AMFPHP may go under the radar (or drop off it completely) as the lead developer has decided to pursue another career and I have not seen any announcement of anybody else taking over for him. I'll be releasing amfphp 2 before I retire, and I have someone here that is interested in picking up amfphp, someone I can't mention just yet but trust me that my successor will be a very talented and respected member of the community that I am sure will do an awesome job with the project. As to which you should choose between amfphp and WebORB, it depends. Mark loves his WebORB, and I love amfphp, but they are different projects, and have different design goals, so that either one is most appropriate for different uses. The differences are subtle though, I'll be the first to admit, which is why I wasn't particularly thrilled about WebORB and SabreAmf when they first came out, as I felt it was a duplication of efforts (much like the well-publicized argument over SWX with Aral). But regardless, the effort has already been put in, so there's no use in stopping it now. I'll restate the design goals of amfphp from the homepage: - Nothing required - PHP4/PHP5 compatible, no extensions needed - Low footprint, lightweight, fast - Convention over configuration (service and class mapping) - Can be embedded into a framework (see CakeAmfphphttp://cakeforge.org/projects/cakeamfphp/, Seagull http://trac.seagullproject.org/ticket/1378) - Services are non-specific PHP classes that are portable to anything without code change - Productivity tools included (service browser, code gen, profiling) - Batteries included - XML-RPC, JSON - Not a framework by itself (use your own) I'd like if Mark could put up a similar statement of design goals for weborb so that users can make an informed decision. As for the issue of the AMF extension, I've contacted Mark about it, and in theory weborb could be made compatible, and SabreAMF will be eventually (as far as I can tell). I don't think Mark wants to do it though, perhaps because of the way the serializer is implemented on their side. My personal feeling is that the serializer and unserializer in WebORB are misadapted to the realities of PHP, split into several classes for doing simple, computationally intensive things, but one could argue (and I'm sure that Mark would) that clarity of code was chosen over performance, a valid decision if it doesn't affect performance that much (and Mark is right, the 50-200ms difference won't really make a difference in most projects, but in some which have very high traffic it most definitely will, which is why the AMF extension was made). Patrick
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
just to note as well, my reason for switching back to amfphp originally was that I could not get weborb to work with apollo public beta. Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions
RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
2 seconds??? Is that really how long an average PHP method call is? We don't use PHP here but we aim for all method calls total being under 200ms and average a bit lower. 2 seconds for a remoting call seems extremely slow. Sam --- We're Hiring! Seeking a passionate developer to join our team building Flex based products. Position is in the Washington D.C. metro area. If interested contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Piller Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 3:58 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application Hi Guillermo, Are you talking about the release of AMFPHP that introduced native (C) AMF serialization? If that's the case, then obviously the implementation would be faster. However, in a real-world scenario does it really matter if the serialization time is 50ms vs. 200ms when the actual method invocation takes 2 seconds? :) Additionally, I heard people saying it is quite hard to find a hosting provider willing to deploy a custom native PHP module (which is what C serializer for AMFPHP is). Cheers, Mark
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
is it realy better to use Frameworks with weborb php or amfphp .. with ORM and with VOs, TOs and DTOs ??? if yes then which will be best ? Impudent1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just to note as well, my reason for switching back to amfphp originally was that I could not get weborb to work with apollo public beta. Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions - It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB or AMFPHP for big Application
this ...Post is really awesome and very cleared for newbies like me . Patrick Mineault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keep in mind that AMFPHP may go under the radar (or drop off it completely) as the lead developer has decided to pursue another career and I have not seen any announcement of anybody else taking over for him. I'll be releasing amfphp 2 before I retire, and I have someone here that is interested in picking up amfphp, someone I can't mention just yet but trust me that my successor will be a very talented and respected member of the community that I am sure will do an awesome job with the project. As to which you should choose between amfphp and WebORB, it depends. Mark loves his WebORB, and I love amfphp, but they are different projects, and have different design goals, so that either one is most appropriate for different uses. The differences are subtle though, I'll be the first to admit, which is why I wasn't particularly thrilled about WebORB and SabreAmf when they first came out, as I felt it was a duplication of efforts (much like the well-publicized argument over SWX with Aral). But regardless, the effort has already been put in, so there's no use in stopping it now. I'll restate the design goals of amfphp from the homepage: Nothing required - PHP4/PHP5 compatible, no extensions needed Low footprint, lightweight, fast Convention over configuration (service and class mapping) Can be embedded into a framework (see CakeAmfphp, Seagull) Services are non-specific PHP classes that are portable to anything without code change Productivity tools included (service browser, code gen, profiling) Batteries included - XML-RPC, JSON Not a framework by itself (use your own) I'd like if Mark could put up a similar statement of design goals for weborb so that users can make an informed decision. As for the issue of the AMF extension, I've contacted Mark about it, and in theory weborb could be made compatible, and SabreAMF will be eventually (as far as I can tell). I don't think Mark wants to do it though, perhaps because of the way the serializer is implemented on their side. My personal feeling is that the serializer and unserializer in WebORB are misadapted to the realities of PHP, split into several classes for doing simple, computationally intensive things, but one could argue (and I'm sure that Mark would) that clarity of code was chosen over performance, a valid decision if it doesn't affect performance that much (and Mark is right, the 50-200ms difference won't really make a difference in most projects, but in some which have very high traffic it most definitely will, which is why the AMF extension was made). Patrick - Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
Actually, all remoting has security problems, its not just OpenAMF. But people use it because there is no other solution. With all remoting solutions, your API is accessible. It is very hard to avoid this which means you dont want to make any functions accessible that could cause a problem. There are ways to code around the issue, but few people bother. This is true for FDS and WebOrb, and OpenAMF, OpenPHP, and CF, etc. But OpenAMF (and remoting in general - same issues) is already used by enterprises that have applications that dont expose API's that could damage mission critical data. Basically, its risky to have any business logic in the client. Web pages dont do this, which is why they are inherently safer. But for lots of apps, it doesnt matter. Oh and the comment about nobody being fired for hiring IBM may or not be true, but I don't think they offer a remoting solution! Regards,HankOn 10/7/06, Johannes Nel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: openAMF won't be used by enterprises due to security concerns, the group i consult to had it code reviewed and found numerous security concerns. futher more you ahve to understand the way most large companies think. nobody has ever been fired for hiring IBM have they.On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, almost anything enterprise is expensive to scale, except to..err..enterprises. :-)OpenAMF and OpenPHP are free, which is a lot cheaper than $20k per server. Personally, I dont consider $0 for 10 OpenAMF servers to be expensive. CF being overkill is an opinion by all means so I'll leave it alone. You clipped half the sentence. I said CF is overkill *** for what you want to do ***. I don't think most people would consider this in the argument inducing opinion camp. If all you want to do is remoting, you don't need the enormous list of CF features. Does anybody disagree with that??? RegardsHank On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? What do you mean? I take it http://www.adobe.com/go/flashremotingisn't what you are talking about? this does not work with flex 2.They obviously did release FDS which does remoting but is quite expensive at scale, and Cold Fusion which is overkill if you just want remoting. There is nothing that replacies flash remoting MX for the Flex 2 platform. RegardsHank -- John C. Bland IIChief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.comhttp://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear Them Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org -- j:pn http://www.lennel.org __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
openAMF won't be used by enterprises due to security concerns, the group i consult to had it code reviewed and found numerous security concerns. futher more you ahve to understand the way most large companies think. nobody has ever been fired for hiring IBM have they.On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, almost anything enterprise is expensive to scale, except to..err..enterprises. :-)OpenAMF and OpenPHP are free, which is a lot cheaper than $20k per server. Personally, I dont consider $0 for 10 OpenAMF servers to be expensive. CF being overkill is an opinion by all means so I'll leave it alone. You clipped half the sentence. I said CF is overkill *** for what you want to do ***. I don't think most people would consider this in the argument inducing opinion camp. If all you want to do is remoting, you don't need the enormous list of CF features. Does anybody disagree with that??? RegardsHank On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? What do you mean? I take it http://www.adobe.com/go/flashremotingisn't what you are talking about? this does not work with flex 2.They obviously did release FDS which does remoting but is quite expensive at scale, and Cold Fusion which is overkill if you just want remoting. There is nothing that replacies flash remoting MX for the Flex 2 platform. RegardsHank -- John C. Bland IIChief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.comhttp://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear Them Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org -- j:pn http://www.lennel.org __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why the heck should they push it?!? Because it makes Flex more attractive/a legitimate possibility to a MUCH larger audience. I don't think anyone is disputing that, especially with Adobe getting (needing) the jump on whatever Microsoft's Vista, XAML, etc will mean in the marketplace. but there's active pushing Vs benign acceptance. So, who should write Ruby remoting tutorials - Adobe? Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. How so? Pretty much every tutorial out there focuses on a Java and/or CF backend. I'm talking more generally, not just remoting with CF tutorials. Besides, CF is an Adobe product and deserves support on how to tie their technology together, especially for the price of the CF licences. If Alaire still owned CF and not the same company that has Flash/Flex, would anyone on this list give ColdFusion a serious second look? I'm looking forward to Bruce Chizen (or any other Adobe very-big-wig) giving an interview and mentions ColdFusion in the same breath as Flash or Flex. Then I'll shut the F*** up and eat my hat. I get the feeling that some of you think switching backends is the easy part of the equation, which is totally not the case. I somewhat disagree. you're correct for your own circumstance but in my enterprise that's exactly what we're doing for our in-house apps and development platform. Bye-bye CF, and we're not the only one. Want a list? and development houses writing solutions for customers? last project: CF. Next project .NET. I don't have a problem with Weborb creating remoting solutions for PHP, Ruby or Farmer Brown's cows. But when they get released as GPL it seems to make ColdFusion look like a very expensive platform in comparison, possibly the biggest argument knockers throw up against CF, which is a damn shame considering how well it works. -- but no one has answered my question: why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? and another question: imagine someone(s) else creates a free Flex plug-in for Eclipse, design view 'n'all. the SDK is free, the remoting is free. what's in it for Adobe - more free Flashplayer downloads? -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
Good question Barry. I've thought about the same thing. Honestly, I doubt anyone build one in Eclipse but apps like Sepy, etc can now integrate Flex as a supported language. They def' are not in the market to get rich on Builder. You don't get rich off a product by giving a free solution to the product. More player downloads? Sure. They are pushing the Flash Platform. Get'em in the door and push more things their way and get them to buy/use Adobe product(s). This is all speculation but this was definitely the best move for the community (free SDK; low priced Builder). why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? What do you mean? I take it http://www.adobe.com/go/flashremotingisn't what you are talking about? Do you mean more languages? Do you mean more languages forFDS?I'd like to see theAdobe FDS version support more languages. On 10/7/06, barry.beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why the heck should they push it?!? Because it makes Flex more attractive/a legitimate possibility to a MUCH larger audience. I don't think anyone is disputing that, especially with Adobe getting(needing) the jump on whatever Microsoft's Vista, XAML, etc will meanin the marketplace. but there's active pushing Vs benign acceptance. So, who should write Ruby remoting tutorials - Adobe? Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. How so? Pretty much every tutorial out there focuses on a Java and/or CF backend.I'm talking more generally, not just remoting with CF tutorials.Besides, CF is an Adobe product and deserves support on how to tietheir technology together, especially for the price of the CF licences. If Alaire still owned CF and not the same company that hasFlash/Flex, would anyone on this list give ColdFusion a serious secondlook?I'm looking forward to Bruce Chizen (or any other Adobe very-big-wig) giving an interview and mentions ColdFusion in the same breath asFlash or Flex. Then I'll shut the F*** up and eat my hat. I get the feeling that some of you think switching backends is the easy part of the equation, which is totally not the case. I somewhat disagree. you're correct for your own circumstance but inmy enterprise that's exactly what we're doing for our in-house apps and development platform. Bye-bye CF, and we're not the only one. Want a list?and development houses writing solutions for customers? last project:CF. Next project .NET. I don't have a problem with Weborb creating remoting solutions for PHP, Ruby or Farmer Brown's cows. But when they get released as GPL it seems to make ColdFusion look like a very expensive platform incomparison, possibly the biggest argument knockers throw up againstCF, which is a damn shame considering how well it works. -- but no one has answered my question: why didn't Adobe release remotingsolutions themselves?and another question:imagine someone(s) else creates a free Flex plug-in for Eclipse, design view 'n'all. the SDK is free, the remoting is free. what's in it for Adobe - more free Flashplayer downloads? -- John C. Bland IIChief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.com http://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear ThemHome of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? What do you mean? I take it http://www.adobe.com/go/flashremotingisn't what you are talking about? this does not work with flex 2.They obviously did release FDS which does remoting but is quite expensive at scale, and Cold Fusion which is overkill if you just want remoting. There is nothing that replacies flash remoting MX for the Flex 2 platform.RegardsHank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
Ahh...we're on a Flex list. I should've realized that question was Flex related. :-) No, there isn't a solution for Flex that covers a broad scope of languages. AMF3, what I assume we're talking about, is implemented into AMFPHP and Fluourine already so there is no need to reinvent the wheel. They have the Remoting MX product covered already by the community products (AMFPHP and Fluourine). I seriously doubt anyone bought Remoting MX anyway; probably why no upgrade since MX. $999 was a bit much on that front. AMF0, on the other hand, is supported by AMFPHP, CF, and Fluourine as well. So, I don't see where the prob is here. You can do remoting in the three major web languages. Ruby/Rails is coming up on the horizon and, as always, the community has provided a product (WebORB) to support it. Is the issue that Adobe hasn't done it? If so, this is an argument/discussion I'll bow out of since I don't work for Adobe. BTW, almost anything enterprise is expensive to scale, except to..err..enterprises. :-) CF being overkill is an opinion by all means so I'll leave it alone. On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? What do you mean? I take it http://www.adobe.com/go/flashremotingisn't what you are talking about? this does not work with flex 2.They obviously did release FDS which does remoting but is quite expensive at scale, and Cold Fusion which is overkill if you just want remoting. There is nothing that replacies flash remoting MX for the Flex 2 platform. RegardsHank -- John C. Bland IIChief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.comhttp://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear ThemHome of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
BTW, almost anything enterprise is expensive to scale, except to..err..enterprises. :-)OpenAMF and OpenPHP are free, which is a lot cheaper than $20k per server. Personally, I dont consider $0 for 10 OpenAMF servers to be expensive. CF being overkill is an opinion by all means so I'll leave it alone. You clipped half the sentence. I said CF is overkill *** for what you want to do ***. I don't think most people would consider this in the argument inducing opinion camp. If all you want to do is remoting, you don't need the enormous list of CF features. Does anybody disagree with that??? RegardsHank On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? What do you mean? I take it http://www.adobe.com/go/flashremotingisn't what you are talking about? this does not work with flex 2.They obviously did release FDS which does remoting but is quite expensive at scale, and Cold Fusion which is overkill if you just want remoting. There is nothing that replacies flash remoting MX for the Flex 2 platform. RegardsHank -- John C. Bland IIChief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.comhttp://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear Them Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
OpenAMF and OpenPHP = Enterprise? Again, an opinion.Yes, I left off part of your sentence because I figured I was responding to you so no need to repeat every word. CF for Remoting is not overkill. Yes, I disagree. You don't have to use the enormous list of CF features to do Remoting. You use CFC's and you're done. Same with PHP, Rails, .NET, Java, whatever, and etc. All of them have great features. You don't need to use the enormous list of _ features to do Remoting. Again, you are presenting opinions and I am as well. If you want to go back and forth with me, email me offlist. I won't respond on the list anymore.Thanks.On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, almost anything enterprise is expensive to scale, except to..err..enterprises. :-)OpenAMF and OpenPHP are free, which is a lot cheaper than $20k per server. Personally, I dont consider $0 for 10 OpenAMF servers to be expensive. CF being overkill is an opinion by all means so I'll leave it alone. You clipped half the sentence. I said CF is overkill *** for what you want to do ***. I don't think most people would consider this in the argument inducing opinion camp. If all you want to do is remoting, you don't need the enormous list of CF features. Does anybody disagree with that??? RegardsHank On 10/7/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why didn't Adobe release remoting solutions themselves? What do you mean? I take it http://www.adobe.com/go/flashremotingisn't what you are talking about? this does not work with flex 2.They obviously did release FDS which does remoting but is quite expensive at scale, and Cold Fusion which is overkill if you just want remoting. There is nothing that replacies flash remoting MX for the Flex 2 platform. RegardsHank -- John C. Bland IIChief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.comhttp://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear Them Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org -- John C. Bland IIChief GeekKatapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.comhttp://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear Them Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
On 10/7/06, John C. Bland II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OpenAMF and OpenPHP = Enterprise? Again, an opinion.Lol. Boy do I hate being misquoted:OpenAMF OpenPHP != Enterprise.OpenAMF == software that can connect to J2EE highly scaled cluster of servers. Enterprise or not. I dont personally have any experience with OpenPHP. Perhaps you definition of Enterprise (I never used the word) is really the debatable opinion since I dont know what it means here. Yes, I left off part of your sentence because I figured I was responding to you so no need to repeat every word. CF for Remoting is not overkill. Yes, I disagree. You don't have to use the enormous list of CF features to do Remoting. You use CFC's and you're done. Same with PHP, Rails, .NET, Java, whatever, and etc. All of them have great features. You don't need to use the enormous list of _ features to do Remoting. Again, you are presenting opinions and I am as well. Perhaps the real disagreement here is over the real definition of the word overkill. I didnt think my definition of the word was opinion but perhaps it is. My definition, in this context, is a piece of software that does more, and therefore *costs* more than what you need to do to do something simple. You can do remoting without buying CF without any reduction in *remoting* functionality. If you want to go back and forth with me, email me offlist. I won't respond on the list anymore. Fine by me.Regards,Hank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
Why isn't WebOrb all over the dev center? Why isn't Adobe pushing it? why the heck should they push it?!? In my eyes they're doing bugger-all to help the CFEclipse IDE which also supports an Adobe product. midnight coders has their own revenue stream. they stand or fall by the products they sell/give away. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. (might change for CF8... wait and see). it's disheartening to see so much promotional effort spent on Flex (ColdFusion? what's that, an ice cream?) and then find Adobe are quite happy have ColdFusion upstaged by RonR with a GPL licence for remoting. Remoting for CF (and I just mean the simple AMF0/AMF3 stuff) was a feature that had real value to leverage CF sales because the alternatives were AMFPHP (IMHO PHP isn't as RAD as CF) or the expensive Java or .NET remoting (remember them? almost as expensive as a CF licence). the expensive ColdFusion licences are killing us CF'ers. My gut feeling is that the good sales figures thrown around on CF7 licences are only reflecting churning/upgrades. Faced with a FREE solution in RonR with FREE remoting, for core features ColdFusion starts to look really expensive. The fact that ColdFusion has remoting too is now a valueless selling point: Remoting is now a me too product. and yes, I realise RonR and CF are not equal, CF seems to have better integration to both Java and (hopefully) other Adobe product. But for core features and a section of the development market I've got a strong hunch that RonR will eat deep into the PHP world and - by extention - affect CF sales. ColdFusion is already being attacked by .NET (by gosh! it has remoting too!) By promoting WebORB it would be good for the community it would be good for Flex. yes it would be good for Flex but weborb does nothing for ColdFusion - an Adobe product. winners and loosers. to me it seems Adobe has dropped the ball on Remoting. I just can't work out why it didn't provide the solutions (at an affordable price) themselves and leave very little room for Weborb to exist. they had heaps of time to build for different platforms. bah humbug! -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
WebOrb seems indeed very powerful and promising. I would love to see some integration between the php version and CakePHP :) On 10/6/06, barry.beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why isn't WebOrb all over the dev center? Why isn't Adobe pushing it? why the heck should they push it?!? In my eyes they're doing bugger-all to help the CFEclipse IDE which also supports an Adobe product. midnight coders has their own revenue stream. they stand or fall by the products they sell/give away. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. (might change for CF8... wait and see). it's disheartening to see so much promotional effort spent on Flex (ColdFusion? what's that, an ice cream?) and then find Adobe are quite happy have ColdFusion upstaged by RonR with a GPL licence for remoting. Remoting for CF (and I just mean the simple AMF0/AMF3 stuff) was a feature that had real value to leverage CF sales because the alternatives were AMFPHP (IMHO PHP isn't as RAD as CF) or the expensive Java or .NET remoting (remember them? almost as expensive as a CF licence). the expensive ColdFusion licences are killing us CF'ers. My gut feeling is that the good sales figures thrown around on CF7 licences are only reflecting churning/upgrades. Faced with a FREE solution in RonR with FREE remoting, for core features ColdFusion starts to look really expensive. The fact that ColdFusion has remoting too is now a valueless selling point: Remoting is now a me too product. and yes, I realise RonR and CF are not equal, CF seems to have better integration to both Java and (hopefully) other Adobe product. But for core features and a section of the development market I've got a strong hunch that RonR will eat deep into the PHP world and - by extention - affect CF sales. ColdFusion is already being attacked by .NET (by gosh! it has remoting too!) By promoting WebORB it would be good for the community it would be good for Flex. yes it would be good for Flex but weborb does nothing for ColdFusion - an Adobe product. winners and loosers. to me it seems Adobe has dropped the ball on Remoting. I just can't work out why it didn't provide the solutions (at an affordable price) themselves and leave very little room for Weborb to exist. they had heaps of time to build for different platforms. bah humbug! -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
why the heck should they push it?!? Because it makes Flex more attractive/a legitimate possibility to a MUCH larger audience. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. How so? Pretty much every tutorial out there focuses on a Java and/or CF backend. I get the feeling that some of you think switching backends is the easy part of the equation, which is totally not the case. Flex (the framework, player, etc) is a front-end, client technology. That is where its real value and revolutionary capabilities lie. One of its main strengths is that it can be slapped onto virtually any technology stack and significantly improve both the user experience and the client-side development process. Switching backends is anywhere from extremely difficult to impossible. I work in a large, enterprise scale organization that primarily uses a Microsoft technology stack. I was able to convince them to use Flex precisely because of its technology agnosticism; give me some web services and I'm good. If I had said well, we'll need to get a CF license and write some EJBs, etc I would have been laughed out of the room. Its simply not an option. If the goal is to increase the number of Flex developers, why would you shut out (or at least actively ignore) everyone not on a CF/Java stack? That makes no sense. Flex is a very large part of Adobe's future, so they should absolutely promote any technology that makes using it easier and/or lowers the barriers to entry. Ben http://www.returnundefined.com/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, barry.beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why isn't WebOrb all over the dev center? Why isn't Adobe pushing it? why the heck should they push it?!? In my eyes they're doing bugger-all to help the CFEclipse IDE which also supports an Adobe product. midnight coders has their own revenue stream. they stand or fall by the products they sell/give away. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. (might change for CF8... wait and see). it's disheartening to see so much promotional effort spent on Flex (ColdFusion? what's that, an ice cream?) and then find Adobe are quite happy have ColdFusion upstaged by RonR with a GPL licence for remoting. Remoting for CF (and I just mean the simple AMF0/AMF3 stuff) was a feature that had real value to leverage CF sales because the alternatives were AMFPHP (IMHO PHP isn't as RAD as CF) or the expensive Java or .NET remoting (remember them? almost as expensive as a CF licence). the expensive ColdFusion licences are killing us CF'ers. My gut feeling is that the good sales figures thrown around on CF7 licences are only reflecting churning/upgrades. Faced with a FREE solution in RonR with FREE remoting, for core features ColdFusion starts to look really expensive. The fact that ColdFusion has remoting too is now a valueless selling point: Remoting is now a me too product. and yes, I realise RonR and CF are not equal, CF seems to have better integration to both Java and (hopefully) other Adobe product. But for core features and a section of the development market I've got a strong hunch that RonR will eat deep into the PHP world and - by extention - affect CF sales. ColdFusion is already being attacked by .NET (by gosh! it has remoting too!) By promoting WebORB it would be good for the community it would be good for Flex. yes it would be good for Flex but weborb does nothing for ColdFusion - an Adobe product. winners and loosers. to me it seems Adobe has dropped the ball on Remoting. I just can't work out why it didn't provide the solutions (at an affordable price) themselves and leave very little room for Weborb to exist. they had heaps of time to build for different platforms. bah humbug! -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
I agree, they should push FDS. The question is, should they push their version or Midnights version? This is the same issue with AMFPHP. MM didn't push it but the acknowledged it and even had some tutorials on how to use it. To ask a company to push someone else's product that does the same as their product is a big request. Maybe they'll bake it into their product and maximize their revenue by reaching more languages or they could forget the revenue and stifle their FDS development since someone else already did it. This isn't going to go anywhere, seriously. Adobe is going to do what is best for the biz then for the community, like pretty much any biz. On 10/6/06, ben.clinkinbeard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why the heck should they push it?!?Because it makes Flex more attractive/a legitimate possibility to aMUCH larger audience. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted.How so? Pretty much every tutorial out there focuses on a Java and/orCF backend.I get the feeling that some of you think switching backends is the easy part of the equation, which is totally not the case. Flex (theframework, player, etc) is a front-end, client technology. That iswhere its real value and revolutionary capabilities lie. One of itsmain strengths is that it can be slapped onto virtually any technology stack and significantly improve both the user experienceand the client-side development process.Switching backends is anywhere from extremely difficult to impossible.I work in a large, enterprise scale organization that primarily uses a Microsoft technology stack. I was able to convince them to use Flexprecisely because of its technology agnosticism; give me some webservices and I'm good. If I had said well, we'll need to get a CFlicense and write some EJBs, etc I would have been laughed out of the room. Its simply not an option.If the goal is to increase the number of Flex developers, why wouldyou shut out (or at least actively ignore) everyone not on a CF/Javastack? That makes no sense. Flex is a very large part of Adobe's future, so they should absolutely promote any technology that makesusing it easier and/or lowers the barriers to entry.Ben http://www.returnundefined.com/--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, barry.beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why isn't WebOrb all over the dev center? Why isn't Adobepushing it? why the heck should they push it?!? In my eyes they're doing bugger-all to help the CFEclipse IDE which also supports an Adobeproduct. midnight coders has their own revenue stream. they stand or fall by the products they sell/give away. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. (might change for CF8... wait and see). it's disheartening to see so much promotional effort spent on Flex (ColdFusion? what's that, an ice cream?) and then find Adobe are quite happy have ColdFusion upstaged by RonR with a GPL licence for remoting. Remoting for CF (and I just mean the simple AMF0/AMF3 stuff) was a feature that had real value to leverage CF sales because the alternatives were AMFPHP (IMHO PHP isn't as RAD as CF) or the expensive Java or .NET remoting (remember them? almost as expensive as a CF licence). the expensive ColdFusion licences are killing us CF'ers. My gut feeling is that the good sales figures thrown around on CF7 licences are only reflecting churning/upgrades. Faced with a FREE solution in RonR with FREE remoting, for core features ColdFusion starts to look really expensive. The fact that ColdFusion has remoting too is now a valueless selling point: Remoting is now a me too product. and yes, I realise RonR and CF are not equal, CF seems to have better integration to both Java and (hopefully) other Adobe product. But for core features and a section of the development market I've got a strong hunch that RonR will eat deep into the PHP world and - by extention - affect CF sales. ColdFusion is already being attacked by .NET (by gosh! it has remoting too!)By promoting WebORB it would be good for the community it would be good for Flex. yes it would be good for Flex but weborb does nothing for ColdFusion - an Adobe product. winners and loosers. to me it seems Adobe has dropped the ball on Remoting. I just can't work out why it didn't provide the solutions (at an affordable price) themselves and leave very little room for Weborb to exist. they had heaps of time to build for different platforms. bah humbug! -- John C. Bland IIChief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com---Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.comhttp://www.lifthimhigh.com - Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear ThemHome of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.orgHome of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ:
[flexcoders] Re: WebOrb for Rails
should they push their version or Midnights version? Its not the same technology! Different environments, different target audiences. The only thing they share is that they both promote and help Flex. When I say promote, that's pretty much what I mean; offer tutorials and such on their site. And that kind of thing would help the biz *and* the community. Ben --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, John C. Bland II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, they should push FDS. The question is, should they push their version or Midnights version? This is the same issue with AMFPHP. MM didn't push it but the acknowledged it and even had some tutorials on how to use it. To ask a company to push someone else's product that does the same as their product is a big request. Maybe they'll bake it into their product and maximize their revenue by reaching more languages or they could forget the revenue and stifle their FDS development since someone else already did it. This isn't going to go anywhere, seriously. Adobe is going to do what is best for the biz then for the community, like pretty much any biz. On 10/6/06, ben.clinkinbeard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why the heck should they push it?!? Because it makes Flex more attractive/a legitimate possibility to a MUCH larger audience. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. How so? Pretty much every tutorial out there focuses on a Java and/or CF backend. I get the feeling that some of you think switching backends is the easy part of the equation, which is totally not the case. Flex (the framework, player, etc) is a front-end, client technology. That is where its real value and revolutionary capabilities lie. One of its main strengths is that it can be slapped onto virtually any technology stack and significantly improve both the user experience and the client-side development process. Switching backends is anywhere from extremely difficult to impossible. I work in a large, enterprise scale organization that primarily uses a Microsoft technology stack. I was able to convince them to use Flex precisely because of its technology agnosticism; give me some web services and I'm good. If I had said well, we'll need to get a CF license and write some EJBs, etc I would have been laughed out of the room. Its simply not an option. If the goal is to increase the number of Flex developers, why would you shut out (or at least actively ignore) everyone not on a CF/Java stack? That makes no sense. Flex is a very large part of Adobe's future, so they should absolutely promote any technology that makes using it easier and/or lowers the barriers to entry. Ben http://www.returnundefined.com/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, barry.beattie barry.beattie@ wrote: Why isn't WebOrb all over the dev center? Why isn't Adobe pushing it? why the heck should they push it?!? In my eyes they're doing bugger-all to help the CFEclipse IDE which also supports an Adobe product. midnight coders has their own revenue stream. they stand or fall by the products they sell/give away. Adobe (and Macromedia before) are (IMHO) doing a lousy job in promoting ColdFusion to other than the already converted. (might change for CF8... wait and see). it's disheartening to see so much promotional effort spent on Flex (ColdFusion? what's that, an ice cream?) and then find Adobe are quite happy have ColdFusion upstaged by RonR with a GPL licence for remoting. Remoting for CF (and I just mean the simple AMF0/AMF3 stuff) was a feature that had real value to leverage CF sales because the alternatives were AMFPHP (IMHO PHP isn't as RAD as CF) or the expensive Java or .NET remoting (remember them? almost as expensive as a CF licence). the expensive ColdFusion licences are killing us CF'ers. My gut feeling is that the good sales figures thrown around on CF7 licences are only reflecting churning/upgrades. Faced with a FREE solution in RonR with FREE remoting, for core features ColdFusion starts to look really expensive. The fact that ColdFusion has remoting too is now a valueless selling point: Remoting is now a me too product. and yes, I realise RonR and CF are not equal, CF seems to have better integration to both Java and (hopefully) other Adobe product. But for core features and a section of the development market I've got a strong hunch that RonR will eat deep into the PHP world and - by extention - affect CF sales. ColdFusion is already being attacked by .NET (by gosh! it has remoting too!) By promoting WebORB it would be good for the community it would be good for Flex. yes it would be good for Flex but weborb does nothing for ColdFusion - an Adobe product. winners and loosers.
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB for PHP with Flex
You can find my comments on WebORB for PHP here http://renaun.com/blog/2006/09/06/94/ Also I did some stuff on SabreAMF another project: http://renaun.com/blog/2006/09/01/93/ As far as WebORB, they have a good foundation and solid package. There is an issue with the services-config.xml and how I use RemoteObjects but hopefully that will be worked out. It has to do with the RemoteObject source attribute and using a ColdFusionAdapter styled destination configuration where you set the source attribute in the config file to *. Renaun --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Pete Capra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, I've just started using WebORB for PHP with Flex to enable Flash Remoting to PHP functions. So far I've found it's pretty neat. Has anyone else come across WebORB? I'd just like to know what people think about it.. Any comments or criticism? Thanks, Pete Pete Capra Information Systems Coordinator Capra Ryan Online Learning p. (617) 3208 9455 m. 0411 043 305 f. (617) 3208 9855 a. PO Box 1744 Springwood Q 4127 www.capraryan.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Hey Jonas, Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience. Thanks, Tim Hoff --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Jonas Windey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following: A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines: add assembly=vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A/ add assembly=BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference). You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working. So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that its pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but its still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use a lot more databinding, whereas with web services you just fill your datagrid or treeview with the data you receive, and in the case of an update, you will probably use a web service too to update the current row. Here you just omit your changes to your dataService, and he handles all the rest. I think the Flex + .NET + WebORB community is pretty small at the moment though, so it would be nice of some gurus from this list play a bit with it like Im doing right now. Jonas From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Hoff Sent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 11:32 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hey Jonas, Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience. Thanks, Tim Hoff --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, Jonas Windey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following: A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines: add assembly=vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A/ add assembly=BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference). You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working. So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas __ NOD32 1.1656 (20060712) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Thanks Jonas, I appreciate your thoughts. When I contacted Joe Orbman concerning WebORB, he was very helpful and eager to help .NET people utilize a service similar to FDS. Understandably, if you don't use Cold Fusion or J2EE, you're not going to get a full-blown solution from Adobe. But fortunately, there are smart people out there that are helping to open-up the Flex market to .NET backends. Thanks for sharing your experience. My view: In the sliding scale of time, there exists gurus and future gurus. -TH --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Jonas Windey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that it's pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but it's still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use a lot more databinding, whereas with web services you just fill your datagrid or treeview with the data you receive, and in the case of an update, you will probably use a web service too to update the current row. Here you just omit your changes to your dataService, and he handles all the rest. I think the Flex + .NET + WebORB community is pretty small at the moment though, so it would be nice of some gurus from this list play a bit with it like I'm doing right now. Jonas _ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Hoff Sent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 11:32 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hey Jonas, Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience. Thanks, Tim Hoff --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Jonas Windey jonas@ wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following: A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines: add assembly=vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A/ add assembly=BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference). You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/ http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working. So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas __ NOD32 1.1656 (20060712) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
I'm about to start tryingit out. So Ill post me experiences as well. Jason -Message d'origine-De: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]De la part de Jonas WindeyEnvoy: jeudi 13 juillet 2006 12:02: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comObjet: RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that its pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but its still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use a lot more databinding, whereas with web services you just fill your datagrid or treeview with the data you receive, and in the case of an update, you will probably use a web service too to update the current row. Here you just omit your changes to your dataService, and he handles all the rest. I think the Flex + .NET + WebORB community is pretty small at the moment though, so it would be nice of some gurus from this list play a bit with it like Im doing right now. Jonas From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim HoffSent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 11:32To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hey Jonas,Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience.Thanks,Tim Hoff--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, "Jonas Windey" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following:A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines:add assembly="vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A"/ add assembly="BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36"/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference).You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working.So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas __ NOD32 1.1656 (20060712) Information __This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Very cool, keep the experiences coming! It helps us all. -TH --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Jason Hawryluk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm about to start trying it out. So I'll post me experiences as well. Jason -Message d'origine- De : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la part de Jonas Windey Envoye : jeudi 13 juillet 2006 12:02 A : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that it's pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but it's still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use a lot more databinding, whereas with web services you just fill your datagrid or treeview with the data you receive, and in the case of an update, you will probably use a web service too to update the current row. Here you just omit your changes to your dataService, and he handles all the rest. I think the Flex + .NET + WebORB community is pretty small at the moment though, so it would be nice of some gurus from this list play a bit with it like I'm doing right now. Jonas --- - -- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Hoff Sent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 11:32 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hey Jonas, Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience. Thanks, Tim Hoff --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Jonas Windey jonas@ wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following: A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines: add assembly=vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A/ add assembly=BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference). You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working. So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas __ NOD32 1.1656 (20060712) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Hi Jonas, I just want to clarify a few things to help avoid possible confusion. If you're doing Flex remoting (ie invoke .NET objects from Flex using RemoteObject), you do not need to do anything special at all - no need for special method attributes, no need to register methods in xml files - just drop your assembly into /bin folder and register a destination in remoting-config.xml and you are done. However if you're doing data management using mx.data.DataService on the client side, then you need to register your data assembler methods in data-management-config.xml. Normally you would have one or more methods to do 'fills' and just one method to do 'syncs'. This will be optional in Beta6 as we will be publishing an interface that your data assembler class can implement. Hope this helps. cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Jonas Windey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that it's pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but it's still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use a lot more databinding, whereas with web services you just fill your datagrid or treeview with the data you receive, and in the case of an update, you will probably use a web service too to update the current row. Here you just omit your changes to your dataService, and he handles all the rest. I think the Flex + .NET + WebORB community is pretty small at the moment though, so it would be nice of some gurus from this list play a bit with it like I'm doing right now. Jonas _ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Hoff Sent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 11:32 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hey Jonas, Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience. Thanks, Tim Hoff --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Jonas Windey jonas@ wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following: A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines: add assembly=vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A/ add assembly=BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference). You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/ http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working. So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas __ NOD32 1.1656 (20060712) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Hi Mark, Thanks for your explanations. We (our team) are still not 100% sure what method is the best to follow. Ive been following Flex2 since the alpha version, and due to our experience with .NET (just regular websites with some Ajax), we have chosen to go with a Web Services approach. Not having any experience with Flash remoting (before, we used Flash in combination with regular asp to provide xml data to flash), this was the easiest way. Can anyone give some pros and cons on some ways of working with .NET and Flex? It seems there are 3 choices: - ASP.NET Web Services - Flex Remoting using WebORB - Flex DataServices using WebORB (dont mention FDS, since we are running in a Windows environment using IIS, and some customers who dislike Java) The projects we work on are mainly Media Asset Management tools, together with admin. Our database is MS SQL 2005, using stored procedures. Sidenote: were using asp.net 2.0. All tips are welcome! Jonas From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mpiller Sent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hi Jonas, I just want to clarify a few things to help avoid possible confusion. If you're doing Flex remoting (ie invoke .NET objects from Flex using RemoteObject), you do not need to do anything special at all - no need for special method attributes, no need to register methods in xml files - just drop your assembly into /bin folder and register a destination in remoting-config.xml and you are done. However if you're doing data management using mx.data.DataService on the client side, then you need to register your data assembler methods in data-management-config.xml. Normally you would have one or more methods to do 'fills' and just one method to do 'syncs'. This will be optional in Beta6 as we will be publishing an interface that your data assembler class can implement. Hope this helps. cheers, Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, Jonas Windey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that it's pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but it's still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use a lot more databinding, whereas with web services you just fill your datagrid or treeview with the data you receive, and in the case of an update, you will probably use a web service too to update the current row. Here you just omit your changes to your dataService, and he handles all the rest. I think the Flex + .NET + WebORB community is pretty small at the moment though, so it would be nice of some gurus from this list play a bit with it like I'm doing right now. Jonas _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoff Sent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 11:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hey Jonas, Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience. Thanks, Tim Hoff --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Jonas Windey jonas@ wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following: A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines: add assembly=vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A/ add assembly=BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference). You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/ http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working. So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas __ NOD32 1.1656 (20060712) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Hi Jonas, I will give you an opinion from my personal experience and perspective. I am sure there will be different point of views on this subject. Essentially it comes down to what's important for you and your application. There are several variables in the formula: 1. application performance 2. time to market 3. speed of development 4. development cost 5. overall project cost (includes product licensing, development cost, maintenance and operations cost) So here's my breakdown for each option you have listed: ASP.NET Web Services Pros: - lower development cost - reduced project cost - adequate speed of development (potentialy offset by problems listed in 'Cons') Cons: - slower performance (compare to other alternatives) - potential problems with data serialization (.NET strongly typed datasets are known to cause problems for many SOAP stacks other than .NET) - some applications may require tighter client/server integration (ability to use session scope, custom serialization, etc). Some of these concepts may not be available or would require considerable development and QA efforts. Flex Remoting using WebORB -- Pros: - superb application performance due to binary data on-the-wire - shorter time to market - reduced development cost - rich client/server development environment with lots of customization options (configurable service activation, custom serialization, customizable client/server object mapping, etc) Cons: - for simpler projects greater licensing cost than with WebServices Flex DataServices for .NET using WebORB --- Pros: - works just like Adobe's FDS for Java (beta 5 provides a subset of functionality - RPC and FDMS are available today) - ideal for data-driven and/or real-time messaging applications - availability of significant data management and messaging infrastructure - reduced development time - developers focus just on the core data access/update logic Cons: - greater licensing cost I am very interested to hear other people opinions on this subject. cheers, Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Jonas Windey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, Thanks for your explanations. We (our team) are still not 100% sure what method is the best to follow. I've been following Flex2 since the alpha version, and due to our experience with .NET (just regular websites with some Ajax), we have chosen to go with a Web Services approach. Not having any experience with Flash remoting (before, we used Flash in combination with regular asp to provide xml data to flash), this was the easiest way. Can anyone give some pros and cons on some ways of working with .NET and Flex? It seems there are 3 choices: - ASP.NET Web Services - Flex Remoting using WebORB - Flex DataServices using WebORB (don't mention FDS, since we are running in a Windows environment using IIS, and some customers who dislike Java) The projects we work on are mainly Media Asset Management tools, together with admin. Our database is MS SQL 2005, using stored procedures. Sidenote: we're using asp.net 2.0. All tips are welcome! Jonas _ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mpiller Sent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hi Jonas, I just want to clarify a few things to help avoid possible confusion. If you're doing Flex remoting (ie invoke .NET objects from Flex using RemoteObject), you do not need to do anything special at all - no need for special method attributes, no need to register methods in xml files - just drop your assembly into /bin folder and register a destination in remoting-config.xml and you are done. However if you're doing data management using mx.data.DataService on the client side, then you need to register your data assembler methods in data-management-config.xml. Normally you would have one or more methods to do 'fills' and just one method to do 'syncs'. This will be optional in Beta6 as we will be publishing an interface that your data assembler class can implement. Hope this helps. cheers, Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Jonas Windey jonas@ wrote: Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that it's pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidni http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm ghtcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but it's still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use
Re: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback
Just a reminder, I checked Aral's ARP framework last week (yes, flex 2 compatible version), there's a pretty well-written RemotingService class which wraps NetConnection (supporting AMF0) and provide exactly the same function of Service/RelayResponder from Flash 8. So one can still use Flash Remoting for .Net (official product from Adobe or open source ones) as the server-side component, then use ARP's Service in the client side to invoke the method, this is pretty easy to setup and just works. I've tried it with AMFPHP 1.2, OpenAMF and Flourine, all went well. Jeremy.On 7/13/06, Jason Hawryluk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm about to start tryingit out. So I'll post me experiences as well. Jason -Message d'origine-De: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com]De la part de Jonas WindeyEnvoyé: jeudi 13 juillet 2006 12:02À: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comObjet: RE: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hi Tim, Well, my first impression is that it's pretty complex, at least a lot more complex than just creating ASP.NET Web services and calling them from flex. Apparently you need to place all your remote methods in xml config files. Etc. The tutorials from http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/datamanagement-part3.htm help a lot, but it's still a huge change, also in the way of thinking. (eg updating data with the sync methods, changeobjects etc). Also you use a lot more databinding, whereas with web services you just fill your datagrid or treeview with the data you receive, and in the case of an update, you will probably use a web service too to update the current row. Here you just omit your changes to your dataService, and he handles all the rest. I think the Flex + .NET + WebORB community is pretty small at the moment though, so it would be nice of some gurus from this list play a bit with it like I'm doing right now. Jonas From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim HoffSent: donderdag 13 juli 2006 11:32To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: WebORB for .net beta5: feedback Hey Jonas,Please let us know what your impressions of WebORB are after you have had a chance to work with it a little. I'll be switching from .NET WebServices to RemoteObject soon, so I would love to hear about your experience.Thanks,Tim Hoff--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com , Jonas Windey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I forgot to read my mails last night. Apparantly Mark Piler from themidnightcoders.com sent me a mail after noticing that I had downloaded the beta 5 (which had just been released), writing the following:A quick workaround is to open web.config from /Inetpub/wwwroot/weborb and remove the following two lines:add assembly=vjslib, Version=2.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=B03F5F7F11D50A3A/ add assembly=BlueDragon, Version=6.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7551335DE9FC3C36/ Please make sure that the closing tags for assemblies and compilation stay in the file (they are on the same line as the BlueDragon reference).You can always check if web.config is valid by opening the following URL: http://localhost/weborb/examples/testsuite/client/testsuite.aspx How nice is this? :-) I guess he must get a notification every time someone downloads his product, and check if everything is working.So, I got the Contact Manager sample working now, let's play around a bit. Jonas __ NOD32 1.1656 (20060712) Information __This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: WebORB 2.1 Beta 2 is available (includes AMF3, Flex Remoting, Auto-Update...)
More to the point...http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/flextodotnet.htmOn 5/3/06, Clint Modien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: New option for people on the .NET side using AS3...-- Forwarded message -- From: flashorbman [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: May 2, 2006 1:59 PMSubject: [weborb] WebORB 2.1 Beta 2 is available (includes AMF3, Flex Remoting, Auto-Update...)To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi guys,We are opening up the beta for WebORB 2.1 for .NET. The Beta2 isavailable for download from our website. I am very excited about thisrelease. The most notable features are: - Support for AMF3. WebORB for .NET now provides a completeimplementation of the RPC functionality available in Flex DataServices (see the getting started article here: http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/flextodotnet.htm).- Auto-update. I wrote about it in one of my previous posts. You canread about the feature, see an example and some sample source codehere: http://www.themidnightcoders.com/articles/objectautoupdate.htm- Support for pre- and post RPC invocation events. This feature allowsinjecting custom code into WebORB invocation chain. The feature also allows to associate metadata with the response messages. - Major improvements in Message Server. All IO operations now use.NET's async API. All threading is pooled. There is a way to registerchannel event listeners.Unfortunately, the documentation for the new features (beyond what's in the two articles linked above) is non-existent and we're working tofill that void. The AMF3/Flex Remoting integration is verynon-intrusive and the articles should provide a good amount of info toget anyone started. If you have any questions about the features or how certain things work, feel free to post them here.cheers,JoeYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flashorb/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
