RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Curtis L. Olson writes: > Norman Vine writes: > > Jim Wilson writes: > > > > > > Norman Vine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > > > > > This came from Siggraph 2003 as did this cloud paper from MS > > > > http://ofb.net/~eggplant/clouds/CloudsInGames_NinianeWang.pdf > > > > > > Hmmm...some interesting hints in there. > > > > Indeed, I esp like the super impostor > > i.e the 'distant' clouds are clumped together into a mosaic of clouds as an > > impostor where each cloud used to make the mosaic is an impostor itself :-) > > I wonder how well that would map into a hierarchical scene graph > structure where a particular node could be rendered as an imposter of > all it's children. (Not my original idea) :-) If you have an Impostor Node type, It should 'just' work, even to the point of updating itself if an when needed due to lighting and or positional change :-) Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Norman Vine writes: > Jim Wilson writes: > > > > Norman Vine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > > > This came from Siggraph 2003 as did this cloud paper from MS > > > http://ofb.net/~eggplant/clouds/CloudsInGames_NinianeWang.pdf > > > > Hmmm...some interesting hints in there. > > Indeed, I esp like the super impostor > i.e the 'distant' clouds are clumped together into a mosaic of clouds as an > impostor where each cloud used to make the mosaic is an impostor itself :-) I wonder how well that would map into a hierarchical scene graph structure where a particular node could be rendered as an imposter of all it's children. (Not my original idea) :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Jim Wilson writes: > > Norman Vine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > This came from Siggraph 2003 as did this cloud paper from MS > > http://ofb.net/~eggplant/clouds/CloudsInGames_NinianeWang.pdf > > Hmmm...some interesting hints in there. Indeed, I esp like the super impostor i.e the 'distant' clouds are clumped together into a mosaic of clouds as an impostor where each cloud used to make the mosaic is an impostor itself :-) Cheers Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Norman Vine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > This came from Siggraph 2003 as did this cloud paper from MS > http://ofb.net/~eggplant/clouds/CloudsInGames_NinianeWang.pdf Hmmm...some interesting hints in there. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Christopher S Horler writes: > > Just moved house, having all kinds of problems... but I have still get a > deep sense of curiousity about all this. > > Is the scene calculated in the main loop? - Do we check these buildings > are there every cycle? > > Or is the implementation more along the lines of; calculated in advance > and setting a variable to switch execution to recalculate at some > predetermined point? In the future Please bottom post http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_topp.html Almost all of the objects in FlightGear < the HUD and Panel are two notable exceptions > are 'just rendered' during the Scene Graph traversal if Scene Graphs are new to you see http://plib.sourceforge.net/ssg/index.html google( "tutorial scene graph" ) should yield lots of info too HTH Norman > > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 12:07, Frederic BOUVIER wrote: > > Norman Vine wrote: > > > I noticed a *very* significant fps drop with the new scenry objects > > > in San Francisco which may be due to having many small textures > > > rather then having the small textures combined into one as is done > > > with the Panel > > > > I use texture repetition for the buildings. Is it possible to achieve that > > when they are grouped in a single file ? > > > > - Fred > > > > > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Hi, Just moved house, having all kinds of problems... but I have still get a deep sense of curiousity about all this. Is the scene calculated in the main loop? - Do we check these buildings are there every cycle? Or is the implementation more along the lines of; calculated in advance and setting a variable to switch execution to recalculate at some predetermined point? On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 12:07, Frederic BOUVIER wrote: > Norman Vine wrote: > > I noticed a *very* significant fps drop with the new scenry objects > > in San Francisco which may be due to having many small textures > > rather then having the small textures combined into one as is done > > with the Panel > > I use texture repetition for the buildings. Is it possible to achieve that > when they are grouped in a single file ? > > - Fred > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Frederic BOUVIER writes: > > BTW, what are the good trade-off, performance wise ? > - big texture vs small repeated texture, > - texture vs geometry > - colour vs texture Good questions ! Rule of thumb is fewer is better but it all depends on your GFX card and what else you are displaying :-) There are many papers on this here is one of the latest http://www-imagis.imag.fr/Publications/2003/DDSD03/bc03.pdf This came from Siggraph 2003 as did this cloud paper from MS http://ofb.net/~eggplant/clouds/CloudsInGames_NinianeWang.pdf Cheers Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Martin Spott writes: > > "Norman Vine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It's disturbing that even at take off from KSFO that the FPS drops > > so dramatically when looking in the 'right' direction when these things > > are so far away > > In my opinion this is the only annoyance in FlightGear that really hurts > noticeably. Even when you start at KHAF and look into the direction of SFO > downtown or KSFO airport the framerate drops heavily - despite all the > mountains that stand in between. > FG would improve heavily if objects would get clipped out that can't be > visible by any means. Especially when you're near ground at takeoff or > touchdown all the currently employed LOD algorithms don't help very much in > this case, Doing line of sight occlusion would help in this case only until you got airborne nor would it help in the case when there were no intervening mountains so I am not sure if the extra complexity would help all that much. I am much more interested in coming with a LOD scheme that helps in the general case before adding any extra overhead :-) If you want to play with the code IMO the easiest thing would be to restructure the SceneGraph during the tilemanager prepnode() call to reorder graph traversal so that tiles were rendered by increasing distance from the viewpoint. This can help somet, I experimented a bit in the old days before we switched to using SSG Cheers Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
"Norman Vine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's disturbing that even at take off from KSFO that the FPS drops > so dramatically when looking in the 'right' direction when these things > are so far away In my opinion this is the only annoyance in FlightGear that really hurts noticeably. Even when you start at KHAF and look into the direction of SFO downtown or KSFO airport the framerate drops heavily - despite all the mountains that stand in between. FG would improve heavily if objects would get clipped out that can't be visible by any means. Especially when you're near ground at takeoff or touchdown all the currently employed LOD algorithms don't help very much in this case, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Norman Vine wrote: > Frederic BOUVIER writes: > > > > Norman Vine wrote: > > > I noticed a *very* significant fps drop with the new scenry objects > > > in San Francisco which may be due to having many small textures > > > rather then having the small textures combined into one as is done > > > with the Panel > > > > I use texture repetition for the buildings. Is it possible to achieve that > > when they are grouped in a single file ? > > Hmm, I don't really know but probably not, at least through PLIB > > Are there lower LOD models that are used when the buildings are distant ? > > If so can these be untextured ? > > It's disturbing that even at take off from KSFO that the FPS drops > so dramatically when looking in the 'right' direction when these things > are so far away Ok, I will add another LOD level. But you'll have to wait 2 weeks because I am away for work. BTW, what are the good trade-off, performance wise ? - big texture vs small repeated texture, - texture vs geometry - colour vs texture Cheers, -Fred ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Frederic BOUVIER writes: > > Norman Vine wrote: > > I noticed a *very* significant fps drop with the new scenry objects > > in San Francisco which may be due to having many small textures > > rather then having the small textures combined into one as is done > > with the Panel > > I use texture repetition for the buildings. Is it possible to achieve that > when they are grouped in a single file ? Hmm, I don't really know but probably not, at least through PLIB Are there lower LOD models that are used when the buildings are distant ? If so can these be untextured ? It's disturbing that even at take off from KSFO that the FPS drops so dramatically when looking in the 'right' direction when these things are so far away Cheers Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
Norman Vine wrote: > I noticed a *very* significant fps drop with the new scenry objects > in San Francisco which may be due to having many small textures > rather then having the small textures combined into one as is done > with the Panel I use texture repetition for the buildings. Is it possible to achieve that when they are grouped in a single file ? - Fred ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
David Megginson writes: > > I've noticed a substantial (>50%) framerate drop with the recent > revisions to FlightGear. I'll try some profiling when I have time, > but is it possible that some of the recent changes to airport handling > have introduced some slow code into the main loop? It could also be a > problem with the new nvidia drivers, of course. Is this everywhere or just at KSFO ? I noticed a *very* significant fps drop with the new scenry objects in San Francisco which may be due to having many small textures rather then having the small textures combined into one as is done with the Panel Cheers Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
re: [Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
David Megginson writes: > I've noticed a substantial (>50%) framerate drop with the recent > revisions to FlightGear. I'll try some profiling when I have time, > but is it possible that some of the recent changes to airport handling > have introduced some slow code into the main loop? It could also be a > problem with the new nvidia drivers, of course. Please disregard -- Mozilla had left some big processes running in the background, hogging the CPU. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Framerate drop
I've noticed a substantial (>50%) framerate drop with the recent revisions to FlightGear. I'll try some profiling when I have time, but is it possible that some of the recent changes to airport handling have introduced some slow code into the main loop? It could also be a problem with the new nvidia drivers, of course. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
