[Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
(Trying to get back up to speed with FG after a few years absence) I've noticed the FG (and SG) code contain a fair amount of legacy pre- processor cruft, some of which is already accompanied by (sometimes hilarious) comments questioning its validity. Notably: - #defines relating to 3DFX / Glide support (FX and MESA defines) this is presumably totally dead, even before the OSG changeover. There's at least one recent sarcastic comment about the dead-ness of Glide in 2008[1] - many #ifdef macintosh defines, which are only relevant for pre OS-X systems. So dead they're fossilised - a few __APPLE__ #ifdefs related to previously broken things on Mac OS-X which have been fixed since. Notably the 'C++ initialisation hack' in SimGear (in the logging code). Given that OSG requires a recent OS-X version (10.3 I suspect, but I'll check), worrying about headers and libraries that were broken in 10.1 or 10.2 seems silly. - many __MWERKS__ defines, mostly relating to broken-ness and incompatibilities in the MetroWerks standard libraries. There's already comments which imply these are scheduled for removal. MetroWerks was the common compiler fo the Mac ten years ago (or more), and it still sold for certain (non-desktop) processors, but my guess is no one has used MetroWerks to build FG in a long time. So, as a low-risk way of getting involved in the code side of things, would patches to clean up some of the above be accepted, or indeed appreciated? I'm **not** proposing a single giant patch that does all of the above, this would definitely be an incremental thing, but as far as I can see there's no harm in a gradual reduction of cruft. The key question is, are all of the above #defines safe to be killed? And are there any others I've missed? There's occasional references to Borland and IRIX compilers (i.e ancient versions of gcc, like pre 3.x!) in some #defines which I guess could also be cleaned up. Regards, James [1] - oh the memories! stand-alone 3FDX cards, in 1998. We all thought 640x480 was an amazing resolution to play at. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
James Turner wrote: The key question is, are all of the above #defines safe to be killed? And are there any others I've missed? There's occasional references to Borland and IRIX compilers (i.e ancient versions of gcc, like pre 3.x!) in some #defines which I guess could also be cleaned up. I've just recently committed a patched version of JSBSim that did just that and so far I've seen nobody complaining. For me it's a rather simple issue; FlightGear 1.0 is the last version for old(ish) hardware and compilers and FlightGear CVS is for new hardrware and compilers etc. It would be great to clean op most (if not all) of this stuff, add default c++ headers (and get rid of compilers.h). For IRIX I have come up with a way to fix most of the problems just by adding simgear/compatibility/compiler to the incldue path anyway. Erik - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
On 25 Jul 2008, at 01:07, Erik Hofman wrote: I've just recently committed a patched version of JSBSim that did just that and so far I've seen nobody complaining. For me it's a rather simple issue; FlightGear 1.0 is the last version for old(ish) hardware and compilers and FlightGear CVS is for new hardrware and compilers etc. It would be great to clean op most (if not all) of this stuff, add default c++ headers (and get rid of compilers.h). For IRIX I have come up with a way to fix most of the problems just by adding simgear/compatibility/compiler to the incldue path anyway. Right, I was looking at compilers.h and most of the cruft is to support GCC 2.8 and egcs-1.x - seriously old :) line 144 of simgear/compilers.h says it all: error Time to upgrade. GNU compilers 2.7 not supported So, what would be a sensible minimum version of GCC to require? 3.2 would be my guess, or maybe 3.3. I'll work on some patches for the macintosh | __MWERKS__ | __APPLE__ stuff, FX / XMESA stuff is not controversial, but I'd want to avoid creating merges headaches for people working on OSG code. I guess cleaning up / getting rid of compilers.h will take longer. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yet more aerodrome taxiways/aprons questions
On Sunday 20 July 2008 12:56, Curtis Olson wrote: Sandtoft is a minor aerodrome and as such only has basic markings. Non-precision has the 'piano keys' which aren't required in this case. There is a splash screen as flightgear fires up featuring a Cub. The runway markings in that image, with the addition of one displaced threshold, are what I'm after. Have you tried visual markings? I think that is what you are after. Finally got an old terragear install running again, visual markings are exactly what I'm after. Talking of terragear, has the main site been moved? I can't get any of the documentation or older CVS snapshots. Martin. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear scenery
Hello, Is the current official FlightGear scenery created with a 'World Custom Scenery Project' patched version of terragear? Martin. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yet more aerodrome taxiways/aprons questions
Martin Fenelon wrote: Finally got an old terragear install running again, visual markings are exactly what I'm after. Talking of terragear, has the main site been moved? I can't get any of the documentation or older CVS snapshots. You're going to find the most recent development of TerraGear here: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/gitweb.pl?p=terragear-cs There's also a copy of the (unmaintained) version from CVS: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/gitweb.pl?p=terragear Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear scenery
Martin Fenelon wrote: Is the current official FlightGear scenery created with a 'World Custom Scenery Project' patched version of terragear? Well, this is not just a patched version, TerraGear CS (Custom Scenery, see my previous EMail) is actually where TerraGear development is being continued - as time permits, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear scenery
Hello Martin, Martin Fenelon wrote: Is the current official FlightGear scenery created with a 'World Custom Scenery Project' patched version of terragear? yes, it is, which is also the reason for some very unfortunate bugs in the scenery itself, which up to now I wasn't able to fix or work around for several reasons. Cheers, Ralf - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
On 24 Jul 2008, at 19:43, James Turner wrote: I'll work on some patches for the macintosh | __MWERKS__ | __APPLE__ stuff, FX / XMESA stuff is not controversial, but I'd want to avoid creating merges headaches for people working on OSG code. I guess cleaning up / getting rid of compilers.h will take longer. Patch to remove macintosh and MWERKS from Simgear. simgear-demac.patch Description: Binary data Tested on Mac only - I'd verify Linux compilation normally but currently travelling. Note, screen/colours.h contains some code relating to gamma which looks very, very unlikely to be correct - hard coding gamma for different platforms. No idea if the code in question is even used, though. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
James Turner wrote: On 25 Jul 2008, at 01:07, Erik Hofman wrote: I've just recently committed a patched version of JSBSim that did just that and so far I've seen nobody complaining. For me it's a rather simple issue; FlightGear 1.0 is the last version for old(ish) hardware and compilers and FlightGear CVS is for new hardrware and compilers etc. It would be great to clean op most (if not all) of this stuff, add default c++ headers (and get rid of compilers.h). For IRIX I have come up with a way to fix most of the problems just by adding simgear/compatibility/compiler to the incldue path anyway. Right, I was looking at compilers.h and most of the cruft is to support GCC 2.8 and egcs-1.x - seriously old :) line 144 of simgear/compilers.h says it all: error Time to upgrade. GNU compilers 2.7 not supported So, what would be a sensible minimum version of GCC to require? 3.2 would be my guess, or maybe 3.3. I'll work on some patches for the macintosh | __MWERKS__ | __APPLE__ stuff, FX / XMESA stuff is not controversial, but I'd want to avoid creating merges headaches for people working on OSG code. I guess cleaning up / getting rid of compilers.h will take longer. I'm all for cleaning up the #ifdefs and #defines. As a baseline, we don't need to support compilers that are too broken to compile OpenSceneGraph, and we would like to support Cygwin. I believe that gives an oldest gcc version of 3.4.4. Windows developers should chime in with their votes for the oldest VC compiler that needs to be supported. IRIX (and Solaris and HP) compilers are still used by some of our developers, and they have their own set of special bugs. However, I think that we can count on C++ standard header files being correct and that sort of thing. Tim - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
Tim Moore wrote: Hi Tim, IRIX (and Solaris and HP) compilers are still used by some of our developers, and they have their own set of special bugs. Well, if you would consider having a closer look, I'd be happy to create some Solaris/SunStudio error messages for you. Last time people - including but not limited to myself - tried to build FlightGear on Solaris, they hit a wall of some obscure contructs that were designed to work on GCC only. They _might_ have been removed in the meantime, but I didn't try for at least one year or so, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
James Turner wrote: Patch to remove macintosh and MWERKS from Simgear. Tested on Mac only - I'd verify Linux compilation normally but currently travelling. Tested for Linux and committed. Note, screen/colours.h contains some code relating to gamma which looks very, very unlikely to be correct - hard coding gamma for different platforms. No idea if the code in question is even used, though. IRIX does use a different gamma setting by default. No idea if it is still used though.. Erik - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
On 24 Jul 2008, at 20:36, Tim Moore wrote: I'm all for cleaning up the #ifdefs and #defines. As a baseline, we don't need to support compilers that are too broken to compile OpenSceneGraph, and we would like to support Cygwin. I believe that gives an oldest gcc version of 3.4.4. Windows developers should chime in with their votes for the oldest VC compiler that needs to be supported. IRIX (and Solaris and HP) compilers are still used by some of our developers, and they have their own set of special bugs. However, I think that we can count on C++ standard header files being correct and that sort of thing. Okay, then Erik's hypothesis of getting rid of compilers.h (in the long run) certainly sounds practical. Right now I'm going to concentrate on the various bits of mess relating to the Mac (a couple of which, I have to confess, seem to have been originally done by me. Ooops.) Regards, James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs
Tim Moore wrote -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:flightgear- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sent: 24 July 2008 19:37 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Legacy #ifdefs James Turner wrote: On 25 Jul 2008, at 01:07, Erik Hofman wrote: I've just recently committed a patched version of JSBSim that did just that and so far I've seen nobody complaining. For me it's a rather simple issue; FlightGear 1.0 is the last version for old(ish) hardware and compilers and FlightGear CVS is for new hardrware and compilers etc. It would be great to clean op most (if not all) of this stuff, add default c++ headers (and get rid of compilers.h). For IRIX I have come up with a way to fix most of the problems just by adding simgear/compatibility/compiler to the incldue path anyway. Right, I was looking at compilers.h and most of the cruft is to support GCC 2.8 and egcs-1.x - seriously old :) line 144 of simgear/compilers.h says it all: error Time to upgrade. GNU compilers 2.7 not supported So, what would be a sensible minimum version of GCC to require? 3.2 would be my guess, or maybe 3.3. I'll work on some patches for the macintosh | __MWERKS__ | __APPLE__ stuff, FX / XMESA stuff is not controversial, but I'd want to avoid creating merges headaches for people working on OSG code. I guess cleaning up / getting rid of compilers.h will take longer. I'm all for cleaning up the #ifdefs and #defines. As a baseline, we don't need to support compilers that are too broken to compile OpenSceneGraph, and we would like to support Cygwin. I believe that gives an oldest gcc version of 3.4.4. Windows developers should chime in with their votes for the oldest VC compiler that needs to be supported. IRIX (and Solaris and HP) compilers are still used by some of our developers, and they have their own set of special bugs. However, I think that we can count on C++ standard header files being correct and that sort of thing. Last time I tried, I couldn't get OSG to compile using gcc3.4.4, which is the version currently available in Cygwin. This was the reason I migrated to MSVC8, and now 9. MSVC9 is available free for download from MS, and the 7.1 project files provided in CVS by Fred can be readily converted by MSVC9 for use. There is an overhead to running FGFS under Cygwin, so I see no reason to revert. Personally, I see no reason to continue to support Cygwin. 7.1 and 9 will cover all bases for Window users AFAIKS. I continue to use Cygwin for CVS, git and Terrasync (there's no Windows equivalent for the last that I know of). My 2 pence worth Vivian - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG
--- On Wed, 23/7/08, Vivian Meazza wrote: 3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate of progress - sometime in the next decade :-). Progress is marginally better than that - I've ported the code and have even got it to compile. I'm now at the stage of crashes-on-startup which will entertain me for some time while I remember how to write C++ code properly :) I expect to progress through the random-black-squares-underneath-the-terrain, thirty-minutes-to-start and one-frame-per-second phases over the next month or so. At this point, Tim will helpfully point out how I can make things much more efficient, and make the squares of texture actually look like clouds. Then finally we'll have 3-D clouds, and everyone will wonder what the fuss was about in the first place. So, I wouldn't stay up late waiting for CVS commit messages, but equally I don't think things are quite as bad as they might seem. Finally, if anyone wants to help out, OSG isn't all that scary ... it is certainly easier to write for than plib! -Stuart __ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG
Hello Stuart, BTW as 3d clouds seems used multipass rendering maybe http://projects.tevs.eu/osgppu will be of some help. Regards Sergey On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Stuart Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- On Wed, 23/7/08, Vivian Meazza wrote: 3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate of progress - sometime in the next decade :-). Progress is marginally better than that - I've ported the code and have even got it to compile. I'm now at the stage of crashes-on-startup which will entertain me for some time while I remember how to write C++ code properly :) I expect to progress through the random-black-squares-underneath-the-terrain, thirty-minutes-to-start and one-frame-per-second phases over the next month or so. At this point, Tim will helpfully point out how I can make things much more efficient, and make the squares of texture actually look like clouds. Then finally we'll have 3-D clouds, and everyone will wonder what the fuss was about in the first place. So, I wouldn't stay up late waiting for CVS commit messages, but equally I don't think things are quite as bad as they might seem. Finally, if anyone wants to help out, OSG isn't all that scary ... it is certainly easier to write for than plib! -Stuart - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG
Stuart Buchanan wrote --- On Wed, 23/7/08, Vivian Meazza wrote: 3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate of progress - sometime in the next decade :-). Progress is marginally better than that - I've ported the code and have even got it to compile. I'm now at the stage of crashes-on-startup which will entertain me for some time while I remember how to write C++ code properly :) I expect to progress through the random-black-squares-underneath-the- terrain, thirty-minutes-to-start and one-frame-per-second phases over the next month or so. At this point, Tim will helpfully point out how I can make things much more efficient, and make the squares of texture actually look like clouds. Then finally we'll have 3-D clouds, and everyone will wonder what the fuss was about in the first place. So, I wouldn't stay up late waiting for CVS commit messages, but equally I don't think things are quite as bad as they might seem. Finally, if anyone wants to help out, OSG isn't all that scary ... it is certainly easier to write for than plib! Hmm ... next decade might be a couple of months out then :-). Sounds most encouraging. The lack of progress reports made me think that you had perhaps been defeated by the complexities of osg. Of course, it would be nice if we could detect the clouds on radar, like the old ones. Vivian - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
