[Flightgear-devel] Hi res textures

[John Wojnaroski]

How does one specify use of high res textures?

Or is this an "auto-select" feature during startup based on driver and
graphic card features

JW


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[Flightgear-devel] GCC options

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi Curt,

Silly question, if you have a moment...

Want to change the compiler option.  Tried ./configure CFLAGS=-O3 but
seemed to have no effect

if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. -I../../src
-I/usr/local/include  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT air

something stepping on the configure option??

Jack


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Effects and shaders

[John Wojnaroski]

Never mind, find them in materials.xml file,

however, would still like to turn these off while testing and mucking
with the shaders.  Is this possible with crashing the program?

John


On Sat, 2011-07-09 at 13:31 -0700, John Wojnaroski wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Trying to get my head around all the effects and shader stuff...
> 
> Are there some default effects and shaders that must run?  Or can they
> be disabled?
> 
> As a test I "removed" the Effects directory and turned off all the
> shaders called out in the original preferences.xml file (running FG-2.2
> and OSG-2.8.4)
> 
> Got the following crash
> 
> [castle@tower FlightGear]# ./run-2.2
> Processing command line arguments
> can't find "Effects/skydome.eff"
> can't find "Effects/terrain-default.eff"
> can't find base effect Effects/terrain-default
> ./run-2.2: line 6: 19880 Segmentation
> fault  /usr/local/src-2.2/flightgear/src/Main/fgfs
> --fg-root=/usr/local/share/Flightgear/data-2.2 --airport=KSFO
> --timeofday=noon
> 
> 
> The shell script
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> 
> /usr/local/src-2.2/flightgear/src/Main/fgfs \
> --fg-root=/usr/local/share/Flightgear/data-2.2 \
> --airport=KSFO \
> --timeofday=noon 
> 
> 
> Where are the "default" effects and shaders specified?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Flightgear-devel] Effects and shaders

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Trying to get my head around all the effects and shader stuff...

Are there some default effects and shaders that must run?  Or can they
be disabled?

As a test I "removed" the Effects directory and turned off all the
shaders called out in the original preferences.xml file (running FG-2.2
and OSG-2.8.4)

Got the following crash

[castle@tower FlightGear]# ./run-2.2
Processing command line arguments
can't find "Effects/skydome.eff"
can't find "Effects/terrain-default.eff"
can't find base effect Effects/terrain-default
./run-2.2: line 6: 19880 Segmentation
fault  /usr/local/src-2.2/flightgear/src/Main/fgfs
--fg-root=/usr/local/share/Flightgear/data-2.2 --airport=KSFO
--timeofday=noon


The shell script

#!/bin/sh

/usr/local/src-2.2/flightgear/src/Main/fgfs \
--fg-root=/usr/local/share/Flightgear/data-2.2 \
--airport=KSFO \
--timeofday=noon 


Where are the "default" effects and shaders specified?

Thanks
John





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[Flightgear-devel] Definition of "toOsg"

[John Wojnaroski]

HI,

Have been digging into the source trying to better understand the
structure of the FG lighting system and constructs.

Keep coming across this function "toOsg" as in
 bb.expandBy(toOsg(_lights[i].position));
or
fog->setColor(toOsg(fogColor));
and
light->setDiffuse(toOsg(l->scene_diffuse()));

Have tried "grepping" through OSG, flightgear, and simgear but unable to
find anything that defines it.

Where can I find a definition and what is it's purpose?

Thanks
John





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Matrox TripleHead2Go

[John Wojnaroski]

On Sun, 2011-06-26 at 16:38 -0700, Gene Buckle wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2011, Torsten Dreyer wrote:
> 
> > Buenos Dias Ezequiel and welcome aboard!
> >
> > We have a fairly complex multi-monitor display setup on our presentation 
> > machine. You can find our configuration from last year's FSweekend at 
> > http://wiki.flightgear.org/FSweekend_2010.
> > In rendering.xml, the first two  entries show how to define 
> > viewports 
> > within one single window.
> > You can define the frustum or perspective for each single viewport.
> > For the correction of the parabolic distortion, I have no idea. But I 
> > remember that there was something presented along with the collimated 
> > display
> > http://wiki.flightgear.org/FlightGear_Newsletter_November_2010#Amateur_built_collimated_display
> > Maybe Gene or Tim can chime in here?
> >

Perhaps you might also look at the March 2011 newsletter.  

http://wiki.flightgear.org/FlightGear_Newsletter_March_2011

> I know there was some work done in order to pre-warp the output from FG, 
> but I'm not sure what the status of that is.  Because of NThusim+, I 
> wasn't paying that close attention to it (and I should have been).
> 



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[Flightgear-devel] Shader stuff

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Got a basic distortion/shader program working to do edge blending and
gamma correction for multi-projector systems. Also includes changes to
Tim's basic distortion code to handle reading in a mesh file created by
external programs for a cylindrical screen Now the question is where to
place the shader program.

Looking over the Docs section for effects and shaders and not sure this
is the most practical way to go.  Essentially, want to post render the
texture created at the end of the frame and apply the edge blending and
gamma correction AFTER all the pixels have been drawn -- the gamma in
particular needs to be handled after the pixel value is set.

The program works just fine on some modified examples from the OSG
directories. Tried a couple of ideas over the weekend with little or no
success. So two questions for the shader gurus...

1) how to use the osg::Uniform to link the rendered texture to the
shader WITHOUT the need to create an xml file.  Understand the syntax,
just a question of where and how to access the FBO, and

2) that is part of the second question.  Given we have the access to the
FBO set as something like 

 osg::Uniform* baseTexture = new osg::Uniform("a_link_to_FBO",0);
stateset->addUniform(baseTexture);

then where to place the shader as an "in-line" piece of code to post
process the image in the FBO.

Any hints or suggestions are most welcomed.  No chance this will make
the current release under review, but once this is working the
distortion code and supporting tools should be ready for a more public
showing.

Thanks
John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Extracting stability derivatives in JSBsim/Yasim

[John Wojnaroski]

On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 23:16 -0600, Ron Jensen wrote:
> On Monday 23 August 2010 21:37:06 Ampere K. wrote:
> 
> > Thank you very much Jon and Ron.  That certainly cleared things up for me.
> 
> You're welcome
> 
> > I only have one question left, which is my original question regarding
> > turbofan in JSBsim.  How does JSBsim simulates a turbofan engine?
> 
> I am far from an expert on turbine engines, or the JSBSim turbine model, but 
> here it goes: (I'll use the f16 engine file, F100-PW-229.xml, as an example)
> 

There is a thermo/physics math model of a turbofan engine if you want to
go in that direction.  The down side is that is does not fit nicely into
the current JSBsim or Yasim engine models. But it does model the twin
spool configuration of a turbofan engine using compressor and turbine
maps. It is based in part on the engine model developed for LeRC by the
University of Toledo and Dr. Reed.  A copy was sent to Jon a few years
back but never made it into the CVS files.  As I noted above it does no
follow the standard method for engine modeling.  However you can "drop
it in" to replace the existing turbofan model (FGTurbine) with some
minor changes to the basic engine class FGEngine.  We used it in the
737NG simulator we delivered to NASA in 2008. It also has an accurate
tanking model for 737 type aircraft and really *shines* on the 747.

If that is an approach you're interested in pursuing Jon might still
have a copy or I'll be happy to provide a copy of the source and the
deltas to the basic JSBSim source.  Only caveat --- no guarantees or
warranties :-)  

John




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[Flightgear-devel] Curved screens

[John Wojnaroski]

There is a program called Nthusim ( http://nthusim.com ) that will
"warp" an MS windows screen for projection onto a curved surface.

Is there any such capability in OSG?  If not, any thoughts on adding the
function to FlighrGear or OSG that would work with X windows under
Linux.

JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi Durk

Are departure/arrival times specified in GMT or local times?

Created some UAL flights from KSFO to KDFW and KPHX with departure times
of 12:10 and 12:15 once a day.  started FG with a time of noon, a number
of AI aircraft were created (repeat time was WEEK) at the gates but
after that nothing happened, no pushback, taxi, departure...  hit the
time warp button and went through a couple of days and still nothing
moved. 

FLIGHT United0908 IFR   0123456 23:05   KORD06:10   EHAM   360
777UAL
FLIGHT United0909 IFR   0123456 09:15   EHAM18:00   KORD   360
777UAL
FLIGHT United946  IFR   0123456  13:17   KIAD05:00   EHAM   360
767UAL
FLIGHT United947  IFR   0123456  10:25   EHAM19:08   KIAD   360
767UAL
FLIGHT United1000 IFR   0123456  12:15   KSFO23:55   KDFW   370
777UAL
FLIGHT United0725 IFR   0123456  12:10   KSFO22:50   KPHX   360
767UAL


Used the scripting tools you called out in the wiki site to create xml
UAL.xml,  ai and traffic-manager were enabled and proportion value was
set to five.

Do I need to schedule a flight from the aircraft's home field to KSFO to
arrive prior to departure time so as to "position" and aircraft at KSFO
that can then be assigned to the schedule or create some AI models with
a home field of KSFO?

Any suggestions where to look?

John

On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 07:18 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote:

> 
> Thanks for the comments by the way, I hope to add a more conceptual 
> introduction, as written above to the wiki page. Please let me know if you 
> have any further questions.
> 



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi Durk,

Thank you for the expanded explanation.  It's making a lot more sense to
me now. :-)

Have a few more questions, but for now need to spend some time/effort to
build a scenario using the wiki tools.

Regards
John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager

[John Wojnaroski]

Thanks Innis,

Think that answers my earlier question, in that all the airport activity
can be created via the AI traffic manager and the tools on the wiki
page.  Then how would one create ramp activity for vehicles other that
aircraft (tows, fuelers, baggage, etc) or is that just some wild raving
idea on my part and not in the current build ;-)

I'll examine the traffic files and correlate that with the action at
KSFO

Thanks again
John



On Mon, 2010-07-26 at 15:24 +0800, Innis Cunningham wrote:
> Hi John
> The traffic you see a KSFO is mine the Air Canada aircraft are in the
> AI 
> folder under traffic/A/ACA and the Cathay are under traffic/C/CPA
> almost 
> at the end.They are supposed to move but there are so few of them
> that 
> you need to be lucky to see them move.I think there is a KLM or two
> of Durk's too.When I was doing the traffic for KSFO there were other
> things going on so I never got anywhere near finishing the traffic
> files.
> 
> Cheers
> Innis
>  
> > 
> > Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active?
> Looking
> > at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out. Haven't tried
> to
> > walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data
> > structures.
> > 
> > When starting at KSFO the "default" seems to be four 737's from Air
> > Canada and two 747s at the south end of the terminal, but can't
> locate
> > the xml file or comand option that stipulates this start condition.
> > 
> > are those active AI models or just static objects placed as
> eye-candy?
> > 
> > Any hints would be appreciated ;-)
> > 
> > John W.
>  
> 
> 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager

[John Wojnaroski]

Thanks Durk,

I was looking at the wiki page and that was helpful.

Still trying to decipher what launches the traffic.  Is it a case where
the traffic manager is instantiated and automagically searches and
creates AI objects?  That being the case, then the demo xml files in the
AI directory while still functional are NOT the way to create a
scenario.  It wasn't clear on the wiki page how that all ties together;
i.e. will the traffic manager create and position AI aircraft on the
ramp if KSFO is specified as the departure airport.  Is there some time
span prior to departure that the specified aircraft object will be
created, start and taxi to meet the departure time.

In the real world, arriving aircraft taxi to the gate, passengers
deplane, and the bird is serviced and scheduled for the next flight.
While that would be an awesome feature, I gather that is not how the AI
world works. Intriguing idea though, don't you think?  Create a list of
available equipment by carrier at a particular airport that is depleted
as aircraft are scheduled/assigned and replenished as aircraft arrive
with some delta time to represent service time.

Wow, that's a lot of work and data you created for the AI world!

I'll take a look at EHAM.  Are the old demo files still available?

Thanks for the info

John

On Mon, 2010-07-26 at 07:16 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> 
> On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:06:14 am John Wojnaroski wrote:
> > Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active?  Looking
> > at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out.  Haven't tried to
> > walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data
> > structures.
> 
> Yep, it's still active. :-) The code's undergone substantial revision about 
> two years ago, which is why there are still a few chunks commented out. 
> 
> Re, the Air Canada 737s, my memory of their origin is a bit rusty to me. 
> Originally, we had a fairly dense demo arond KSFO (thanks to Innis 
> Cunnigham), 
> but after the revision, I build a new demo, highlighting the lastest 
> features, 
> that was centered around my then hometown of Amsterdam, NL. Try for example 
> fgfs --airport=EHAM --runway=24 --com1=121.7 and wait a few seconds for 
> traffic to initialize. 
> 
> For additional information on building traffic files yourself, please have a 
> look at:
> 
> http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8612
> 
> or
> 
> http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Interactive_Traffic#Tools
> 
> or, more generally:
> 
> http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Interactive_Traffic
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Durk
> 
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[Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager

[John Wojnaroski]

Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active?  Looking
at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out.  Haven't tried to
walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data
structures.

When starting at KSFO the "default" seems to be four 737's from Air
Canada and two 747s at the south end of the terminal, but can't locate
the xml file or comand option that stipulates this start condition.

are those active AI models or just static objects placed as eye-candy?

Any hints would be appreciated ;-)

John W.


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[Flightgear-devel] Startup problem

[John Wojnaroski]

Doing this build on a new machine,  thinking I have all the required
support files and libraries loaded and new data files.  Things work fine
with 1.9.1 on the other machine, but that was done almost two years ago
and the memory is fuzzy and any notes are long gone.

Just a quick try to see if things run

ooops,

<<
t...@tower Main]# ./fgfs
Error: Unable to create OpenGL graphics context.
Error: Unable to create OpenGL graphics context.
Segmentation fault
>>

Have not tried any of the examples in OSG,  probably ought to go back
and see if the "cow" shows up unless someone has any suggestions ;-)

John W




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cloud Rendering and threading

[John Wojnaroski]

Looks like it is based on the work of Mark Harris which was used for the
initial set of 3D cloud rendering in FG.  (See his Phd thesis for more
details.)

Multi-core CPUs are becoming the norm, might be worth a second look.

John

 On Sun, 2010-07-18 at 22:47 -0300, Pablo Rogina wrote:
> A paper from Intel that may be useful for those interested about
> clouds. It's also a good reference about how threading may help in
> this topic...
> 
> Dynamic Volumetric Cloud Rendering for Games on Multi-Core Platforms
> http://a676.g.akamaitech.net/f/676/773/1d/images.delivery.net/cm50content/intel/software/e-alert2/dynamic_vol_cloud_010710_r2.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Pablo J. Rogina
> 
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[Flightgear-devel] Control System Pics

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

A while back a few folks asked for some pics on the control loading
system I was working on.  Finally a little time to post a few pics

see http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyr15/

Currently working on the PID and control algorithms and some code in FG
to compute neutral elevator/stick position. Once that is working up to
spec will post some movies of the system in action.

also plan to replace the air compressor with a quiet ( ~35dB ) Jun-aire
unit.  The CFM is quite modest so should be able to get by with a fairly
small unit; something on the order of a 3-4 gallon supply tank @ 230psi.
The control system itself runs at 15psi for the pitch and 30psi for the
roll channel. The ITVs have a range up to 130psi and are programmable
and scalable.  Interface is a USB to d-to-a converter (0-5Vdc) to set
the actuator pressures.

No numbers on duty cycle for the compressor just yet, but at 35dB the
noise should be tolerable when it fires up ( can always move it to the
next room and add an intermediate supply tank ;-) )-- guessing around a
25 minute duty cycle under load.

Regards
John W


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Interesting new book...

[John Wojnaroski]

I've got a copy. aka everything you wanted to know about flight
simulation in 25 words or less"

Probably not a bad book for someone who is thinking of doing some
simulation stuff, but really light on any in-depth analysis.

So if you're an aero major, you'll blow off the stuff on flight
dynamics, but perhaps you want to know something about OSG, so go to
Chap 8 for an overview but don't expect much else.

I found Chap 4 particularly unuseful!  If you are not a control theory
type, the few sections on LaPlace transfers, time domains, transfer
functions, PIDs, etc is a lot of words, equations that create more
confusion than explanation.  OTOH, if you've studied or worked in the
field, skip over this section

All in all, as with most survey books, he touches all the bases, but
never spends any time drilling down into the nitty-gritties. On a more
gentle positive note, the list of references and citations at the end of
each chapter will be useful to the reader who wishes to explore further.
A good starting point for the beginner or anyone who wants to know "how
things work"

John W.



On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 09:31 -0500, Curtis Olson wrote:
> Hi Gene,
> 
> Thanks for posting the link, this looks like it could be an
> interesting book.  Years ago I found a book with similar aspirations
> at barnes and noble, but at the time it was hopelessly dated.  We were
> way beyond it already with the FlightGear project.  This book looks
> like it is much more up to date (the author makes reference to
> OpenSceneGraph for instance.)  If someone decided to jump in and buy a
> copy they will have to post a book review here.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Curt.
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Gene Buckle wrote:
> I was perusing the free issue of Computer Pilot that was
> recently put
> online.  They've got a little blurb about a new book that some
> here may
> find interesting - it's called Principles of Flight Simulation
> by David
> Allerton.  The ISBN # is 978-0-470-75436-8.
> 
> Here's an Amazon link for it that has more info:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Flight-Simulation-Aerospace-PEP/dp/0470754362/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274797000&sr=8-1
> 
> g.
> 
> 
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
> 
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Single engine takeoff simulation

[John Wojnaroski]

And don't forget to consider if the prop can be feathered.

Just an aside...  remember light twins  single engine performance 
numbers are based on *density* altitudes.   On a hot, humid day at 
higher altitude airports lose an engine and your only option to maintain 
Vmc is a descent to a controlled crash.

An accurate model would be a real plus in this area to demonstrate just 
how slim the margin is for light twins.

JW

Fabian Grodek wrote:

>That's very interesting to know John.Coping with the windmilling drag would
>be the next step. But first I want to be able to cut the engine.
>
>Thanks Victhor and Ron.
>
>Victhor, I've tried Method 3 but I cannot find any MTBF for the engines;
>maybe this is only available for a specific aircraft model? which one? In
>methods 1 or 2, do you refer to cockpit toggles?
>
>Ron, do you mean setting /engines/engine[*]/running to 0 in the jsbsim-set
>file?
>
>Fabian
>
>
>
>On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:22 PM, John Wojnaroski wrote:
>
>  
>
>>We've implemented that capability in our version of FG supplied to
>>NASA/Ames as part of the 737NG project; however that requires a totally
>>different approach to modeling the engine, fuel tanks, and engine feed
>>systems.  The code is licensed under the GPL and there is a 1.9.1 version.
>>
>>Plus a lot depends on the type or mode of engine failure you wish to
>>simlate and, of course, a BIG difference between losing a piston engine
>>with a windmilling prop versus a turbine engine.
>>
>>JW
>>
>>
>>



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Single engine takeoff simulation

[John Wojnaroski]

Fabian Grodek wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Is it possible to simulate an engine failure during takeoff (or at any
>flight stage) in Flightgear? If the answer is positive, is there an aircraft
>model (with two or more engines, of course) ready to do that?
>
>I've tried to set "set-running" property to false or 0 in the property
>browser while in flight, but this is ignored, the property retaining its
>"true" value.
>
>Fabian.
>
>  
>
We've implemented that capability in our version of FG supplied to 
NASA/Ames as part of the 737NG project; however that requires a totally 
different approach to modeling the engine, fuel tanks, and engine feed 
systems.  The code is licensed under the GPL and there is a 1.9.1 version.

Plus a lot depends on the type or mode of engine failure you wish to 
simlate and, of course, a BIG difference between losing a piston engine 
with a windmilling prop versus a turbine engine.

JW


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[Flightgear-devel] F106 model

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

A while back I noticed a model of the F-106 in the list of downloaded 
aircraft on the FG website.  It appears to be missing on the latest set 
shown on the aircraft download page.

Is it available and compatible with FG-1.9.1?

Regards
John W.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Reverse for 737-300 model (patch)

[John Wojnaroski]

Gene Buckle wrote:

>>There are reverse "REV" indications in the cockpit located above the N1
>>gauges and digital readout window on the EICAS display. To deploy the
>>
>>
>
>Is that indication present on the -200 series?  If so, I'd never noticed 
>it. :)  That's the only model I have experience with (specifically the 
>Conductron-Missouri 737-200 simulator, circa 1967)
>
>
>g.
>
>  
>
The info was only for 737's with glass.  Imagine the mechanical stuff 
and sequencing is the same, but the cockpit displays could be totally 
different for older models, even non-existent as Gene pointed out. 

We built a 747 quadrant with the interlocks, it was a bear of a project, 
especially trying to prevent pilot "wannabes' at trade shows who had no 
idea how to operate the system from trying to overide/overpower the 
interlocks and bend the metal. ;-)

JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Reverse for 737-300 model (patch)

[John Wojnaroski]

Gene Buckle wrote:

>The thrust reversers require that you go to idle power to engage them. 
>However, after that you can run the power back up.  In the real aircraft 
>there is no "indication" that the reversers are on.  This is because the 
>reverser lever is attached to the throttle arm for each engine.  To 
>activate the reverser, you'll pull this lever up and aft.  In its open 
>position, it's very obvious. :)
>
>g.
>
>
>  
>
Perhaps Dave might want to expand on this or correct any errors

There are reverse "REV" indications in the cockpit located above the N1 
gauges and digital readout window on the EICAS display. To deploy the 
reverse thrusters the forward throttles must be in the Idle position.  
The reverse thrust lever is blocked at the reverse idle position  until 
the reverse thrust sleeve is more than 60% deployed.  (the "REV" 
indication goes to amber when the sleeve has moved from the stowed 
position ; between 10 and 90% and then green when more than 90% of 
travel to deployed position ) then the interlock is released and the 
reverse thrust levers may be raised to accelerate the engines.  when in 
reverse thrust the forward thrust levers CANNOT be advanced. When 
exiting reverse thrust, the reverse thrust levers are stowed and once 
the thrust sleeves have  retracted, the forward throttles may be 
advanced as desired for taxi.

Reverse thrust may not be selected in-flight; however when the radar 
altimeter is less than 10' (3 meters) the T/R control system allows for 
deployment.

For more details on the electro-mechanical and hydraulic details, 
switches, interlocks, etc  see the respective flight manuals.

Hope this helps
JW




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[Flightgear-devel] Red Bird Contact

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi Curt,

Took the liberty to talk to the folks at Red Bird, Todd (spelling?) in 
particular.

explained our relationship, etc, etc.

One of the items for your gap study to consider is how to handle the 
hardware interfacing, especially if they want to use the "modular" 
approach.  My questions focused around this idea.  Personally, I don't 
like their engineering solution but suspect it was driven in large part 
by the use of MSFS and the Garmin plug-in emulators and having to fit 
into that world.

At any rate, following are my suggestions for the gap study some of 
which we discussed:

1)  porting FG to run on a multi-core machine with multiple displays 
with OSG with an emphasis on the frame rate

2)  number and types of subsystem models required.  I would avoid 
scripting and xml stuff except as required for sim stratup and 
initialization; i.e. no run time scripts or xml logic ( again emphasis 
is on frame rate )

3)  where to do the hardware interfacing?  this might be a small 
engineering study funded by Red Bird; e.g given that we have a basic 
Avidyne display for the SR-22 do we build the interface there or perhaps 
a "personality" package that talks directly to FlightGear.   Sort of 
depends on  modeling question in #2.  For NASA these models are in the 
LFS private stuff, avoids the question of GPL and having to publish the 
source and provides better control over the source. But you've been down 
that road with ATC.  Putting the models in the Avidyne/Garmin/whatever 
code meets that objective.

4) it does sound like they've invested some time and effort into their 
"plexiglass" solution with a little pride of authorship.  But thinking 
we could build an LFS prototype for the Avidyne under some form of a 
cost-sharing and licensing arrangement and show life-cycle costing 
benefits and better quality and customer appeal.

5) finally, the nav database question.  we have software to create 
flightplans and incorporate SIDS and STARS based on Robin's database.  
If they want to use something like Jeppsen about all that is required 
would be rewritting the parser to extract the specifics.

Well, that's my $0.02.  The NASA support contract starts this week and 
suspect Ron and Glenn will be calling with a bunch of pent up questions 
and requests.  If you want comments on the study report, fire off a 
draft and I'll pass along my thoughts.

Regards
Jack


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Startup Problem

[John Wojnaroski]

[r...@moat FlightGear-1.9.1]# ./configure --help
`configure' configures this package to adapt to many kinds of systems.
:
:
Optional Packages:
  --with-PACKAGE[=ARG]use PACKAGE [ARG=yes]
  --without-PACKAGE   do not use PACKAGE (same as --with-PACKAGE=no)
  --with-boost[=DIR]
:
:
:

Odd, when running "./configure --without-boost"  the test for the boost 
libraries is ignored. 

JW
Frederic Bouvier wrote:

>Hi John,
>
>I can't find a --without-boost option in configure.ac, either for SimGear or 
>FlightGear.
>
>Simgear configure abort when a suitable boost version is not found. Required 
>minimum version of boost is 1.34
>
>-Fred
>
>
>- "John Wojnaroski" a écrit :
>
>  
>
>>I'm asking the same question again. :-(
>>
>>Started a build of the CVS on an older 32-bit machine and wound up in
>>
>>the same place
>>
>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>clude -DPKGLIBDIR=\"/usr/local/share/FlightGear\" -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT
>>
>>-MT fg_os_osgviewer.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" -c -o 
>>fg_os_osgviewer.o fg_os_osgviewer.cxx; \
>>then mv -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Po";
>>else 
>>rm -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:32:29: error: boost/foreach.hpp: No such file or 
>>directory
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>It appears that FlightGear > 1.0 has added another dependency
>>requiring 
>>the boost libraries. If that is the case it makes no sense to have a 
>>configure option "--without-boost" to allow a build to proceed or
>>source 
>>that will not honor the option to build without the boost library.
>>seems 
>>we should either modify the source to build without boost or modify
>>the 
>>build to abort when boost is not found and alert the builder.
>>
>>Or am I missing something or mistaken in my analysis.
>>
>>JW
>>
>>cas...@mminternet.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>OK, that cleared up the path problem.  As for the seg fault, decided
>>>  
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>step back to 1.9.0 and now I'm starting to regress :-(
>>>
>>>Running centos-5.3 (64-bit version) and the latest boost version
>>>  
>>>
>>there is
>>
>>
>>>1.33, so tried a build without boost rather that trying an upgrade to
>>>  
>>>
>>1.34
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Simgear-1.9.0 build and install was okay, but now FlightGear-1.9.0
>>>  
>>>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>complaining.
>>>
>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>   then mv -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo"
>>>  
>>>
>>".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Po";
>>
>>
>>>else rm -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:32:29: error: boost/foreach.hpp: No such file or
>>>directory
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx: In function ‘void fgOSOpenWindow(bool)’:
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: expected primary-expression before
>>>  
>>>
>>‘&’ token
>>
>>
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: ‘camera’ was not declared in this
>>>  
>>>
>>scope
>>
>>
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: ‘BOOST_FOREACH’ was not declared in
>>>  
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>scope
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: expected `;' before ‘{’ token
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:250: error: expected `}' at end of input
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:250: error: expected `}' at end of input
>>>make[2]: *** [fg_os_osgviewer.o] Error 1
>>>make[2]: Leaving directory
>>>  
>>>
>>`/usr/local/src/FlightGear-1.9.0/src/Main'
>>
>>
>>>make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>>>make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear-1.9.0/src'
>>>make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>Commenting out the "offending" code produces a build, but I suspect
>>>  
>>>
>>that
>>  

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Startup Problem

[John Wojnaroski]

Hmm,  running Centos-5.3 and the latest boost version in that distro is 
1.33.   Do you happen to know the latest version on RH?  Debian is 1.35 
based on the packages in the stable release.

I'm not all that conversant on the benefits of boost.  what is gained?  
Tried compiling a boost library for 1.38 on a 64-bit and ran into a few 
problems and have not had the time to run them to ground.

Sorry, either I missed it on the discussion lists or the topic was 
discussed on the IRC or elsewhere.  If the decision was made to require 
it, the build system needs to be fixed.   If the matter is still under 
discussion then I would object to a de facto requirement in build 1.9.x.

Curtis Olson wrote:

>Yes, there was some discussion a while back about adding the boost
>dependency.  There should be prebuilt boost packages for most linux
>distributions.
>
>Regards,
>
>Curt.
>
>
>On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:51 PM, John Wojnaroski wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I'm asking the same question again. :-(
>>
>>Started a build of the CVS on an older 32-bit machine and wound up in
>>the same place
>>
>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>clude -DPKGLIBDIR=\"/usr/local/share/FlightGear\" -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT
>>-MT fg_os_osgviewer.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" -c -o
>>fg_os_osgviewer.o fg_os_osgviewer.cxx; \
>>then mv -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Po"; else
>>rm -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:32:29: error: boost/foreach.hpp: No such file or
>>directory
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>It appears that FlightGear > 1.0 has added another dependency requiring
>>the boost libraries. If that is the case it makes no sense to have a
>>configure option "--without-boost" to allow a build to proceed or source
>>that will not honor the option to build without the boost library. seems
>>we should either modify the source to build without boost or modify the
>>build to abort when boost is not found and alert the builder.
>>
>>Or am I missing something or mistaken in my analysis.
>>
>>JW
>>
>>cas...@mminternet.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>OK, that cleared up the path problem.  As for the seg fault, decided to
>>>step back to 1.9.0 and now I'm starting to regress :-(
>>>
>>>Running centos-5.3 (64-bit version) and the latest boost version there is
>>>1.33, so tried a build without boost rather that trying an upgrade to 1.34
>>>
>>>
>>>Simgear-1.9.0 build and install was okay, but now FlightGear-1.9.0 is
>>>complaining.
>>>
>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>   then mv -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Po";
>>>else rm -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:32:29: error: boost/foreach.hpp: No such file or
>>>directory
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx: In function ‘void fgOSOpenWindow(bool)’:
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: expected primary-expression before ‘&’
>>>  
>>>
>>token
>>
>>
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: ‘camera’ was not declared in this scope
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: ‘BOOST_FOREACH’ was not declared in this
>>>scope
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: expected `;' before ‘{’ token
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:250: error: expected `}' at end of input
>>>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:250: error: expected `}' at end of input
>>>make[2]: *** [fg_os_osgviewer.o] Error 1
>>>make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear-1.9.0/src/Main'
>>>make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>>>make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear-1.9.0/src'
>>>make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Commenting out the "offending" code produces a build, but I suspect that
>>>might be the cause of the segfault.
>>>
>>>As this is something that was added between 1.0 and 1.9.0; i.e. the boost
>>>dependency, it appears that NOT using it for 1.9.0 or later was fully
>>>recognized.  would that be a correct assumption?  can it be fixed without
>>>some major "ifdef" stuff?
>>>
>>>

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Startup Problem

[John Wojnaroski]

I'm asking the same question again. :-(

Started a build of the CVS on an older 32-bit machine and wound up in 
the same place

<<<
clude -DPKGLIBDIR=\"/usr/local/share/FlightGear\" -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT 
-MT fg_os_osgviewer.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" -c -o 
fg_os_osgviewer.o fg_os_osgviewer.cxx; \
then mv -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Po"; else 
rm -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:32:29: error: boost/foreach.hpp: No such file or 
directory
 >

It appears that FlightGear > 1.0 has added another dependency requiring 
the boost libraries. If that is the case it makes no sense to have a 
configure option "--without-boost" to allow a build to proceed or source 
that will not honor the option to build without the boost library. seems 
we should either modify the source to build without boost or modify the 
build to abort when boost is not found and alert the builder.

Or am I missing something or mistaken in my analysis.

JW

cas...@mminternet.com wrote:

>OK, that cleared up the path problem.  As for the seg fault, decided to
>step back to 1.9.0 and now I'm starting to regress :-(
>
>Running centos-5.3 (64-bit version) and the latest boost version there is
>1.33, so tried a build without boost rather that trying an upgrade to 1.34
>
>
>Simgear-1.9.0 build and install was okay, but now FlightGear-1.9.0 is
>complaining.
>
><
>then mv -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo" ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Po";
>else rm -f ".deps/fg_os_osgviewer.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:32:29: error: boost/foreach.hpp: No such file or
>directory
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx: In function ‘void fgOSOpenWindow(bool)’:
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: expected primary-expression before ‘&’ token
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: ‘camera’ was not declared in this scope
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: ‘BOOST_FOREACH’ was not declared in this
>scope
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:120: error: expected `;' before ‘{’ token
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:250: error: expected `}' at end of input
>fg_os_osgviewer.cxx:250: error: expected `}' at end of input
>make[2]: *** [fg_os_osgviewer.o] Error 1
>make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear-1.9.0/src/Main'
>make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear-1.9.0/src'
>make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>  
>
>
>Commenting out the "offending" code produces a build, but I suspect that
>might be the cause of the segfault.
>
>As this is something that was added between 1.0 and 1.9.0; i.e. the boost
>dependency, it appears that NOT using it for 1.9.0 or later was fully
>recognized.  would that be a correct assumption?  can it be fixed without
>some major "ifdef" stuff?
>
>JW
>
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Q: OpenGL version requirement for FlightGear 1.9.1

[John Wojnaroski]

Csaba Halász wrote:

>On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 6:10 PM, John Wojnaroski  wrote:
>  
>
>>Do you mean "shaders" as in vert and frag program running on the GPU
>>that are loaded, compiled, and linked with GLSL?  There is support in
>>OSG for these types of shaders, but I could not find any use of the
>>methods in the Simgear source.  Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place.
>>Could you please point me to the appropriate files?
>>
>>
>
>For example simgear/scene/tgdb/TreeBin.cxx or simgear/scene/sky/newcloud.cxx
>
>  
>
Excellent!  Thank you.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Q: OpenGL version requirement for FlightGear 1.9.1

[John Wojnaroski]

Alex Buzin wrote:

>David L. Page wrote:
>  
>
>>Unfortunately, Chromium doesn't support OpenGL 2.0 or higher, right now.
>>
>>
> As I know FG 1.9.0 is using shaders to render trees and clouds. May be 
>this is a problem.
>Try to find FG 1.0.0 or 0.9.10, it can be at the same FTP resource as 1.9.1.
>
>Alex
>
>
>  
>
Do you mean "shaders" as in vert and frag program running on the GPU 
that are loaded, compiled, and linked with GLSL?  There is support in 
OSG for these types of shaders, but I could not find any use of the 
methods in the Simgear source.  Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place.  
Could you please point me to the appropriate files?

Thanks
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

[John Wojnaroski]

Curtis Olson wrote:

>On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:30 PM, John Denker  wrote:
>
>  
>
>>On 01/17/2009 05:16 PM, Curtis Olson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>http://www.atcflightsim.com/index.html
>>>  
>>>
>>If I may be permitted to answer in kind:
>>
>>http://www.atcflightsim.com/pricing.html
>>
>>
>
>
>You are expecting a complete cockpit enclosure, instruments, radio hardware,
>instructor station software, plush seat, and FAA certification for free?
>The FAA doesn't certify a software application (well unless you are looking
>at a PCATD and even there, it's not just the software they are looking at.)
>For Level 3 FTD certification and above they certify a complete simulator
>and at least half of their certification tests involve control loading in
>some way or another. 
>
Displays and switches are nice, but control loading is the 800 lb 
gorilla in the room.  With good to excellent control loading pilots will 
"forgive" a lot in the display/appearance arena.

You can get by cheaply on some research projects ( ~100k) for a 
reasonable cockpit setup, but moving up the FTD scale from 1 to 7 and 
then over to a Class a to d system is an exponential cost curve.  Not 
for the faint-of-heart...

Jack


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

[John Wojnaroski]

Curtis Olson wrote:

>On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:00 PM, syd adams  wrote:
>
>  
>
>>So, how about it?  Who is serious about going down that
>>road?
>>I am , for one, which is why I dont get the apperent need to impress the
>>general user community... I didn't think we were creating a game here...
>>I'm currently more interested in getting the glass cockpits to behave
>>realistically , but since I am not a RL pilot , finding accurate information
>>isn't that easy.Theory is great , but doesn't always match RL behavior...
>>Input is always appreciated , with facts and docs to back it up , but not
>>the "its wrong because I say so" kind of help ...
>>;)
>>
>>
>>
>
>http://www.atcflightsim.com/index.html
>
>Curt.
>  
>
>  
>
Or for that matter

http://www.lfstech.com/index.html

Jack


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[Flightgear-devel] OSG error

[John Wojnaroski]

I recently setup a dual core 64-bit machine with FG-1.0 which works just 
fine.

Now doing the same with a single core 64  bit machine.  After instaling 
OSG-2.6.0 tried to run an example program and got
the following error


[cas...@rampart OpenSceneGraph]$ osgparticle
Error: Unable to create OpenGL graphics context.
  GraphicsWindow has not been created successfully.
Error: Unable to create OpenGL graphics context.
  GraphicsWindow has not been created successfully.
Viewer::realize() - failed to set up any windows
[cas...@rampart OpenSceneGraph]$
 

First time I've run across this problem.  Haven't tried FG just yet, 
suspect this problem needs to be  solved first.

Linux is 2.6.23 with a Centos-5.1 package and a Nvidia  GeForce 6200 on 
the MB.  As best I can tell all the software is common across both 
machines, only discernible difference is that the dual-core machine is 
running with two PCIe video cards in twin view mode.

Any suggestions where to look would be appreciated.
John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

[John Wojnaroski]

Matthew Tippett wrote:

>For comparison, can anyone show some screenshots of MS FSX or X-Plane clouds?
>
>Regards... Matthew
>  
>
FWIW here are a few pics of a 737 sim we just delivered to NASA/HCSL at 
Ames.  We'll be using FlightGear on a 64bit machine with OSG and a high 
end graphics system on five large screen monitors.

http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_one.jpg
http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_two.jpg
http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_three.jpg

We might just resurrect and extend the old Mark Harris code from a few 
years back in '09; time and priorities permitting.

http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg

Regards
JW




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D clouds - progress report·

[John Wojnaroski]

Stuart Buchanan wrote:

>--- On Sat, 9/8/08, John Wojnaroski wrote:
>  
>
>>just 2 more cts.
>>
>>if you're porting to OSG why not consider Mark
>>Harris' cloud code?  far 
>>superior in texture, appearance, extendibility,
>>transparency, lighting, 
>>etc, etc,might require a tad more work but IMHO the
>>results are 
>>worth the effort
>>
>>JW
>>
>>
>
>I did consider it, but given the problems I've had simply trying to port the 
>existing code, I felt it was too much of a challenge for the moment.
>
>-Stuart
>
I hear you. :-) 

ATM way too busy with a NASA project and a two new customers knocking at 
the door; otherwise would  gladly give a hand.  Did a "half-baked" 
version of Mark's code a few years back  ( never got my head around the 
plib scene graph stuff even with lots of help from Curt and friends ).  
Still the visual effects were quite realistic, especially when emerging 
from a cloud as it thinned and the terrain became visible and the 
opacity can be varied with the code.A nice feature for investigating 
the problems associated with transitioning from an IMC instrument 
approach to visual conditions for flare and landing.

JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D clouds - progress report·

[John Wojnaroski]

gerard robin wrote:

>On sam 9 août 2008, Ralf Gerlich wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi Stuart!
>>
>>Stuart Buchanan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Just to keep everyone up to date on where I am with porting 3D clouds to
>>>FG OSG:
>>>
>>>http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/clouds.jpg
>>>
>>>Obviously there is still a lot of work to be done before they are
>>>complete, but progress is being made.
>>>  
>>>
>>Doesn't look bad at all. The main visual problem may be the textures,
>>which are completely opaque. Real clouds tend to increase transparency
>>towards the border.
>>
>>Just my 2ct.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Ral
>>
>>
>Stuart Thanks , 
>to me the first good new of the day :)
>
>I guess the target is to get at least the quality than with Plib version :)
>
>Cheers
>
>
>
>  
>
just 2 more cts.

if you're porting to OSG why not consider Mark Harris' cloud code?  far 
superior in texture, appearance, extendibility, transparency, lighting, 
etc, etc,might require a tad more work but IMHO the results are 
worth the effort

JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] John Wojnaroski - 747 help please

[John Wojnaroski]

Gijs de Rooy wrote:

>
>
>Hello John, Thanks to Georg Vollnhals I found your emailadres, but becayse I 
>didn't get an answer I try to reach you through the mailinglist. 
>
Sorry,  I did not see your earlier post.  Possible my spam filters may 
have blocked it.  ATM, I'm very busy getting some software ready for 
delivery on a NASA project.  But I will try to answer some of your 
questions this weekend. 

If you wish , you may try and post your private email address again to 
my private email otherwise I'll probably reply on the FG mailing list

Regards
John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG on a 64bit dual core machine

[John Wojnaroski]

OK, I see what is happening now,  forgot about the /usr/lib64 thingy ;-)

This was a  64-bit, dual core install from the git-go from the Centos5.1 
site.
Wondering if all the apps, servers, tools, etc are built for a 64-bit 
architecture and what would happen if I *turn-off* the 32 bit libraries 
at /usr/lib  

Does the gcc compiler auto-magically build the dependencies (Simgear, 
plib, osg, openal) as 64-bit libraries by determining the CPU 
architecture or must the developer specific 64 bits with something like 
'make ARCH=64' as noted in the OSG docs?  So should there, in turn, be a 
/usr/local/lib64?  OK, just answered my own question... There IS a 
/usr/local/lib64 that contains the shared libraries for osg but nothing 
there for Simgear, plib, openal, or glut.  Interesting.  So does that 
mean the build for 64 bits is a bit ( -2 pts for bad pun) more labor 
intensive to set up the proper paths and build comparable libraries for 
64 bits?  So if the delendencies are compiled for 64 bits, then based on 
the current build commands they are getting stuffed into the /usr/lib 
and /usr/local/lib 32-bit library directories;  is that something to 
worry about that needs some clarification?

Thanks for the feedback, guys

As an aside,  just got back from the PCWG conference,  some good stuff 
from Intel and AMD on emerging quad-core and 8-core processors and 
RedHat on virtual machines, plus a nice presentation on a survey of 
flightsims (FSX, X-Plane, and Flightgear)  Curt will be getting a DVD of 
the 2-day proceedings.  Might be worthwhile to post portions on the 
website.  If anyone wants a complete set of all the proceedings, will be 
happy to copy and mail a DVD for the cost of handling and postage 
($10.00 ???)

John W.





Georg Vollnhals wrote:

>John Wojnaroski schrieb:
>  
>
>>...
>>  
>>
>>
>
>  
>
>>Also looking for any tips, gotchas, or watch-out-fors from anyone who 
>>has successfully built and run FG on a 64-bit machine.
>>
>>Thanks
>>John W.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>Hi John,
>just as a feedback:
>
>I am compiling FG since more than 18 months on a  64bit O/S and 
>processor (but NOT dualcore!) without any serious problem.
>That is
>AMD 64 3700
>OpenSUSE 10.1/10.2 x86_64 (64 bit version)
>FlightGear OSG CVS (and for a long time also PLIB - to enjoy 3D clouds 
>and shadows from time to time :-)  )
>
>Only all 64bit development libraries have to be installed, normally only 
>something like the runtime libraries are installed (sorry I am so vague 
>but I am no Linux guru).
>I don't know anything about your Linux O/S but maybe you can get all 
>available libs listed from a helper tool. The development libraries are 
>often name -dev.
>
>At last I have to mention that I changed my OpenSUSE 10.3 (64 bit) from 
>internally testplatform  to productive system status and with THIS O/S I 
>have some strange compiling errors - other than you have. And this 
>BEFORE OSG 2.4 got FlightGear default. Just to mention.
>
>Sorry that I cannot give better advice but it might be good to hear for 
>you that for more than 18 months a 64bit compiling was not only possible 
>but very easy. So 64bit is NOT the problem, it might be more the 
>libraries and compile-procedures.
>
>Regards
>Georg EDDW
>
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[Flightgear-devel] FG on a 64bit dual core machine

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Just finished putting together a dual-core 64 bit machine with Centos5.1

The FlightGear build and install was going just fine until trying to 
compile FlightGear ( the CVS version )

right at the start, the gl-info complained about not finding glut 
functions.  Looking in /usr/include/GL and /usr/lib both the header 
files glut.h and the libraries libglut.a and libglut.so.3.7 are 
installed.  OTH the ./configure log shows that glutGetModifiers search 
fails to find the glut libraries.  OK, that explains the compile error, 
so question?

Sounds like a need to recompile recompile the glut library from the 
source on the host machine, but before I do that thought of giving SDL a 
whirl, so "./configure --enable-sdl --enable-osgviewer"

Same problem gl-info.c in the tests  directory complains.   So do we 
need glut even if not using it for the fgfs binary?

Also looking for any tips, gotchas, or watch-out-fors from anyone who 
has successfully built and run FG on a 64-bit machine.

Thanks
John W.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trees

[John Wojnaroski]

Syd wrote:

>Vivian Meazza wrote:
>  
>
>>  
>>
>>
>>>Behalf Of Syd
>>>Sent: 14 April 2008 08:03
>>>To: FlightGear developers discussions
>>>Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trees
>>>
>>>
>>>John Wojnaroski wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>My apologies to all the "tree-huggers" out there ;-)  but 
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>how does one
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>disable all the trees?
>>>>
>>>>Great for mountains and forests scenery tiles; however last 
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>month when 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>I
>>>>was up at Ames don't recall all that lumber around the 
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>runway and know 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>that NASA will not care for all the trees around KDFW when 
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>they start 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>the research phase of the project.
>>>>
>>>>Regards
>>>>JW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Hi John,
>>>Setting  to 0 in the materials.xml file should 
>>>do it . Haven't tried myself , I like it as dense as possible 
>>>:). Cheers, Syd
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>> 
>>Nothing like doing things the hard way :-). Try
>>
>> --prop:sim/rendering/random-vegetation=false
>>
>>I use it and it works here.
>>
>>Vivian
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>
>Well , ok , that is easier , forgot about that one  ...
>Syd
>
>  
>
Thanks,

BTW, was at a conference last week on PC-based simulations.  One 
presenter from AFRL (Air Force Research Labs) did a survey of major 
flight sim programs.  The three top systems were MSFS, X-Plane, and 
Flightgear.  FG matched up nicely in all areas except documentation, but 
it was cut a little slack being an OSS program.The presenter was 
reviewing the 1.0 version.
Curt will get a copy of all the presentations; might want to excise that 
portion and post it

Since Curt was having all kinds of fun cruising the Pacific, I had to 
expand on FG capabilities not discussed. Since the docs are thin in some 
areas some of the features of FG were not covered.  However, while 
presenting the use of FG and JSBSim on the 747 project, I was able to 
fill in and add some areas that were not covered, most notably the 
transition to OSG and AI stuff.

Another interesting tidbit, during the RedHat presentation on virtual 
machines a show off hands from the audience showed a majority (60%) were 
linux users interesting.

John


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[Flightgear-devel] Trees

[John Wojnaroski]

My apologies to all the "tree-huggers" out there ;-)  but how does one 
disable all the trees?

Great for mountains and forests scenery tiles; however last month when I 
was up at Ames don't recall all that lumber around the runway and know 
that NASA will not care for all the trees around KDFW when they start 
the research phase of the project.

Regards
JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiple graphics card and displays on one machine

[John Wojnaroski]

Vikas N Kumar wrote:

>On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Vikas N Kumar <
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I reinstalled FlightGear, SimGear, OpenSceneGraph from their respective
>>CVS/SVN repositories and rebuilt everything successfully.
>>
>>However, SimGear required plib so I had to install plib as well and
>>FlightGear uses SimGear which needed plib.
>>
>>I used plib-1.8.5 which is the latest release.
>>
>>I still have the same problem, even though based on the sample
>>preferences.xml file I have added the   settings from
>>that file for my setup.
>>
>>I am not able to get Flightgear to display 2 screens even.
>>
>>
>
>  
>
Did you remember to build with "./configure --enable-osgviewer"  ?

John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiple graphics card and displays on one machine

[John Wojnaroski]

Vikas N Kumar wrote:

>Hi
>
>I am sure this question has come up many times on this and the users mailing
>lists.
>
>I now have setup a machine with an AMD Athlon X2 4200+ dual core CPU, 2GB
>RAM, Slamd64 Linux and 2 NVIDIA Graphics cards (FX5200 PCI based Dual head
>and FX 8600 GTS PCI-E based dual head) and have current attached 3 monitors
>to these.
>
>I do not run Xinerama since with NVIDIA's latest drivers, Xinerama does not
>work with 3D graphics. So I have 3 displays that I can access however
>instead of just 1 single large display.
>
>I want to run Flightgear on this setup and make use of the 3 screens for
>views, either the standard view split up or 3 different views on each
>screen.
>
>I searched on the net, and every manual/mail suggested that 2 or more fgfs
>applications needed to be run as master-slave to get that effect.
>
>John Wojnarowski however said that he was able to get it up and running with
>3 graphics cards on one P4 machine in Jan 2007.
>
>Here is the link to his statement :
>http://www.lugod.org/mailinglists/archives/vox-tech/2007-01/msg00112.html
>
>I have contacted him by email as well, but was hoping someone could respond
>to me faster here too.
>
>Is there any such possibility ?
>
>Any info will be appreciated.
>  
>
First, you will require the CVS version of Flightgear with OSG support.  
Sounds like you have the xorg.conf file wiorking to handle your graphics 
boards, so all you will then need is the proper setup in the 
preferences.xml file.  Note, this will NOT work with FG-1.0 or any 
version that is using the plib graphics,  that still requires one FG app 
per machine.

My thanks to Mathias Boerner for some sample config files,  I will pass 
those on to you attached via private email

John


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[Flightgear-devel] UFO and menus

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi Curt,

I started working on setting signs at KDFW and got stuck immediately :-(

Started the UFO but the old style menus came up; not at all like the 
ones you used.  Is there a property value to set for the menu? Using 
FG-1.0.  Is that menu in the osg version only?  Any tips/suggestions on 
how to run the bloody sequence to get to a proposed sign location? 

I'll be a NASA/Ames on the 20th from about 9AM to 3PM (PST).  If any 
questions come up I can't answer or are not sure of regards FlightGear 
would like to give you a call.  Do you have a preferred number and 
perhaps time?

Either way I'll give you a call after it's all done and give you a quick 
debrief before heading back to LA.

Thanks for posting all the pics and links.
Jack


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: [Scale-announce] SCALE is this Weekend!

[John Wojnaroski]

Adding to Curt's info

Will also have a set of 737 displays available for viewing.  We've just 
received a purchase order for a 737 test bed simulator using FlightGear 
and the responsible NASA task manager will be there Friday for a sneak 
preview/demo

John


Curtis Olson wrote:

>Just a reminder that SCALE is this weekend in Los Angeles, CA (USA).  I will
>be there with John Wojnaroski (http://www.lfstech.com) demoing his 747
>simulator.  If anyone is in the neighborhood, please stop by and say hi, we
>should be pretty easy to find!
>

Just look for the big blue canopy and crowd ;-)

>
>Curt.
>
>-- Forwarded message --
>From: SCALE Announcements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Feb 4, 2008 11:46 PM
>Subject: [Scale-announce] SCALE is this Weekend!
>To: SCALE-announce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>The So Cal Linux Expo continues to prepare for this weekend's activities:
>
>* The Expo will hold a raffle Saturday evening. There are tons of
>prizes including a Silicon Mechanics Server, a Nokia 810 (running Wind
>River Linux), HP digital cameras, and much more!
>
>* SCALE will again hold the world-renowned "Weakest Geek"
>competition, on Saturday at 9 p.m. Witness prominent members of the free
>and open source community square off against SCALE's own Meryle Swartz
>in a battle of wits. Who will be "The Weakest Geek"?
>
>* SCALE is holding an Open Source Jobs BoF at 7 p.m. on Saturday.
>At the Jobs BoF you can learn about Linux and Open ource job
>opportunities in Southern California. Among the employers present will
>be Ticketmaster, Google, Shopzilla, Edmunds.com, and Fox Interactive.
>Employers wishing to present their available opportunities should
>contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>  And SCALE has ample opportunity for you to prove your Open Source
>skills:
>
>* LPI Certification exams will be available both Saturday and
>Sunday. Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more information.
>
>* The BSD Certification Group (BSDCG) will offer the BSDA
>certification exams. Instructions on registering for the exams can be
>found on the SCALE blog:
>http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/blog/2008/02/02/bsd-certification-exams-available-at-scale/
>
>* SCALE University will hold two half-day classes on Friday, on
>SpamAssassin and on Xen Virtualization on Linux. There's still some
>space available if you're interested in signing up.
>
>BoF slots have been taken. They range from "Open Source Politics", to
>"OpenSolaris", to "Inkscape". The BoF schedule is available on the SCALE
>web site. If your group wants to meet at SCALE, check the BoF schedule
>and drop [EMAIL PROTECTED] a note requesting one of the free
>time slots.
>
>Joomla and OpenStreetMap have joined the groups that will be exhibiting,
>and have taken the last two available booths on the Expo floor.
>
>Come join us for another memorable Open Source Software show! Register
>now at http://www.socallinuxexpo.org.
>___
>Scale-announce mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://mail.socallinuxexpo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-announce
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
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[Flightgear-devel] Dihedral aero coefficients

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Looking over a couple of xml aircraft files and aero numbers...
Can any of you aero experts out there identify the coefficients that 
account for wing dihedral?  I can't seem to find anything that would 
account for the difference in wing lift on left side versus right side 
thereby creating the roll torque due to dihedral.

Thanks
John W.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Nasal error with YASim aircraft having < 4 fuel tanks [OFFLINE]

[John Wojnaroski]

Berndt, Jon S wrote:

>>Unfortunately, the supporting code is not part of the JSBSim 
>>baseline so it is impossible to see how it works , although 
>>it has been submitted a while back. You can see the 
>>supporting source changes by downloading the tar file of the 
>>code used at a Mathworks expo and will be usedat the 
>>upcoming Linux show in February.   Look at the FGEngine.cxx, 
>>jsbsim,cxx 
>>and FGTurbine.cxx modules in the modified jsbsim code.
>>
>>Personally, I don't like the way fuel is currently modeled in 
>>FG and really don't like using a scripting language to do 
>>real-time execution, but that's just me I guess  ;-)  Happy 
>>to share the code and my ideas, but not the primary author or 
>>responsible agent for that capability so I live with the 
>>problem and update my version of the source as required with 
>>each FG release.
>>
>>Regards
>>John W.
>>
>>
>
>
>John:
>
>Can you point out where the modified JSBSim propulsion files are? I'm
>sure you've sent these to me before - maybe more than once. I tried
>downloading the source code at lfstech.com but it seems to be stock FG
>1.0 (no jsbsim changes).
>
>Sorry I lost track of your changes. As I recall, what happened was that
>we were in the middle of a big reorganization.
>
>I'd like to take another look. Dave Culp and I have discussed some major
>updates to the tank code. In fact, that is online at our Feature Request
>page at the JSBSim project site: 
>
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=19399&atid=369399
>
>Look near the bottom of the list for "Detailed fuel tank design
>options".
>
>I'd like to take another look at your code, so please let me know where
>I can find it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jon
>
>  
>
Hi Jon,

Thank you for the feedback,  do aplologize if it sounded a bit testy.  
Not my intention, just a bit of a mild rant.  ;-)

Yes, it was a while back and it was based on the architeture 
"pre-reorganization".  The good news is that I've still been able to 
work the changes into the newer versions as they come out -- a real 
credit to you and others and the structured design you have developed in 
the code that allows for such changes and revisions.

I've just finished a first rev to both 1.0 and the CVS head versions for 
the Feb Linux show and it needs some testing.  I will send you a tar 
file of the earlier version.  One item I have in that code is some 
simple ideas and parameters to vary engine performance.  Nothing "more 
awful" than four engines running in perfect sync -- same EPR, EGT, NI, 
N2, oil pressure, etc etc.  Might also be a good way to show wear and 
tear based on  engine time, Hobbs meter, percent of time at high 
power/rpm settings, etc.

The turbine/fan engine model needs some serious peer preview on the 
thermo and rotor physics.  Has a bit of "arm waving" :-)

I'll send over a tarfile. Look at the jsbsim.cxx, FGEngine, and 
FGTurbine modules for openers.  Hope you find it useful

Regards
John W.








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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Nasal error with YASim aircraft having < 4 fuel tanks

[John Wojnaroski]

LeeE wrote:

>On Monday 07 January 2008 18:24, LeeE wrote:
>  
>
>>On Monday 07 January 2008 11:07, Chris Metzler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 23:00:22 +
>>>
>>>LeeE wrote:
>>>  
>>>
Can anyone else confirm this problem on the OSG cvs branch?


>>>Yes, I see it too, and have for at least a couple of weeks.
>>>
>>>-c
>>>  
>>>
>>Thanks - confirms it's not just a local problem here.
>>
>>LeeE
>>
>>
>
>Searching through Aircraft/controls.hxx gives
>
>enum {
>   ALL_TANKS = -1,
>   MAX_TANKS = 8
>};
>
>but in Aircraft/controls.cxx there's
>
>FGControls::set_feed_tank( int engine, int tank )
>{ 
>if ( engine == ALL_ENGINES ) {
>   for ( int i = 0; i < MAX_ENGINES; i++ ) {
>   feed_tank[i] = tank;
>   CLAMP( &feed_tank[i], -1, 4 );
>   }
>} else {
>   if ( (engine >= 0) && (engine < MAX_ENGINES) ) {
>  
>   CLAMP( &feed_tank[engine], -1, 4 );
>   }
>} 
> //   feed_tank[engine] = engine;
>}
>
>If these bits of code are relevant to the problem MAX_TANKS seems 
>too low - many large aircraft will have more than 8 fuel tanks.
>
>If I understand CLAMP syntax correctly, it's limiting the value to 
>4, which ties in with the number of tank nodes that are created by 
>default.
>
>I didn't find any other occurrences of 'tank' in the FG source code 
>that seemed relevant.
>
>LeeE
>
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>
>  
>
I'm, pretty certain that might be my code for the handling a 747 fuel 
system.  It has nothing to do with how nasal handles fuel.

In a nut shell, the 747 plumbing feeds the engines from 5 tanks, the 
center and four wing tanks through a combination of shutoff controls and 
cross-feed valves. In graph theory this can be represented as a fully 
connected graph where any engine can "suck" fuel from any one of the 
five tanks or any tank can feed all four engines.  Reserve tanks 
transfer fuel to the main feed tanks, but CANNOT feed the engines via 
the fuel manifold.  So yes, you can have more tanks than those that 
directly feed engines.  In the 747 or any large complex system, mess up 
your fuel panel and you starve an engine.  This is accurately modeled in 
the 747 sim.

The 747 FMS model determines which tank is feeding which engine and sets 
the value of "tank" accordingly.  A "-1" indicates no fuel connection 
for the engine. This value in turn is passed to FG via the native_ctrls 
protocol/packet and passed in turn to JSBSim via the jsbsim.cxx module. 
Unfortunately, the supporting code is not part of the JSBSim baseline so 
it is impossible to see how it works , although it has been submitted a 
while back. You can see the supporting source changes by downloading the 
tar file of the code used at a Mathworks expo and will be usedat the 
upcoming Linux show in February.   Look at the FGEngine.cxx, jsbsim,cxx 
and FGTurbine.cxx modules in the modified jsbsim code.

Personally, I don't like the way fuel is currently modeled in FG and 
really don't like using a scripting language to do real-time execution, 
but that's just me I guess  ;-)  Happy to share the code and my ideas, 
but not the primary author or responsible agent for that capability so I 
live with the problem and update my version of the source as required 
with each FG release.

Regards
John W.






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[Flightgear-devel] Pressure altitude

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

have come across an interesting problem (maybe) 

Looking at data coming across the opengc socket interface.

in 0.9.10 the pressure altitude is reported as 29.9069

in the 0.9.11-pre2 it is reported as 5.32503e-315

in the CVS osg head it is reported as 29.9017

Need to dig further, but thought someone might have an explanation or 
knowledge as to what might have changed or why.
I suspect a property change name in -pre2 that was not updated in 
opengc.cxx code that stuffs data into the packet slots; just a hunch ;-)

Regards
John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] dual head problem

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

OK,  I've just starting working with OSG and multiple cameras so may not 
have all the details.

OSG only requires a single instance of FG to use multiple cameras.  
You'll need to set up your xorg.conf file to run your graphics boards 
under a single X server and there are some lines you'll need in the 
preferences.xml file to configure the cameras, FOVs, and displays.

If you understand what I've just said and have done this, then that 
pretty much exhausts my current understanding of OSG and multiple 
cameras.  If OTOH, you're not clear on how to do this, I can provide a 
copy of the files that others have been kind enough to provide and I've 
edited for my setup.

I'm not at my machine with those files, but will send them later today 
via private mail, if you like.  These files set up X windows and 
configure FG-OSG to produce three views (left, center, right).  You'll 
need pretty hefty graphics cards to get a decent frame rate.

John

jean pellotier wrote:

>hi, I think i did (I'm using a script to compile).
>I've got the following line in my configure.log:
>#define ENABLE_OSGVIEWER 1
>
>
>
>John Wojnaroski a écrit :
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>did you run configure with   " --enable-osgviewer" ?
>>
>>JW
>>
>>jean pellotier wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>>Hi all
>>>I tryed to run flightgear cvs-OSG using two displays, running two X 
>>>instances (different resolution) and when I start flightgear in a 
>>>terminal on the second display, it always start on the fist one.
>>>The 0.9.10 version worked fine for this.
>>>is this a bug or there's something to do before compiling?
>>>
>>>debian SID, amd2800+, geforce 6200
>>>
>>>jano.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>>



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] dual head problem

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

did you run configure with   " --enable-osgviewer" ?

JW

jean pellotier wrote:

>Hi all
>I tryed to run flightgear cvs-OSG using two displays, running two X 
>instances (different resolution) and when I start flightgear in a 
>terminal on the second display, it always start on the fist one.
>The 0.9.10 version worked fine for this.
>is this a bug or there's something to do before compiling?
>
>debian SID, amd2800+, geforce 6200
>
>jano.
>
>
>
>  
>



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Informal version number poll

[John Wojnaroski]

Curtis Olson wrote:

>
>I say it's "go time". :-)
>
>Curt.
>  
>
I say go with 0.9.11.  And for those worried about that number, work 
extra hard updating/improving the code so we can then quickly move to 
0.9.12  :-)  Or better still, start a new versioning system with OSG.


JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear prerelease

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi Durk,

looking over my logs, there was quite a bit of traffic downloading the 
pre-release version of FG and the base files. Glad I could help.  Do you 
want to continue with this arrangement or has Curt had a chance to setup 
the ftp server for you?

If not I can give you ftp access and perhaps we can continue using this 
site as a mirror.  Your call

Regards
John




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[Flightgear-devel] Scale6X

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Flightgear at Scale this year will be either the OSG version or 0.9.11.  
We're trying to negotiate for a bit more space and power to set up three 
large scale screens.

Curt posted a notice to the upcoming events regards the show.

Joysticks?  We don't need no stickin' joysticks ;-)  The show this year 
will feature a full set of flight controls with control loading and 
fully trimmable axes .  Pics are on the project page.  Control inputs 
will be with high precision multi-turn pots that feed an analog signal 
to an A/D board that provides a 12 bit precision digital value with a 
sampling rate of 100kHz.  Based on estimated control travel limits, pot 
precision, and scaling colum and yoke movements on the order of 0.02 
degrees in pitch and roll can be sensed.  This also required some large 
gearing ratios to achieve sufficient pot travel. (See pic on project page)

 For control loading we use Q and g to stiffen the controls in pitch, 
ailerons will be a fixed force.  Making the system portable and keeping 
costs down was a real challenge.  I'll be sending Curt some pics on the 
progress of the effort that we'll throw up on the 747 project page.

As a side note, we'll have an internet connection for MP access. 
Unfortunately, the show hours, based on PST, are not the best for all of 
you located across the Atlantic.  But if there are a few brave night 
owls or early risers, come and join us at LAX and or KSFO.

Regards
John


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[Flightgear-devel] Mirror site

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

The pre-release tar files have been uploaded to an alternate site for 
the interim to relieve the load on Durk's machine.

Files are at http://www.lfstech.com/pub/flightgear or  
ftp://www.lfstech.com/pub/flightgear.  Should also be quite a bit faster.

JW


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[Flightgear-devel] Frame rate drops

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Having a strange problem with the latest osg version.

Upon startup, the initial frame rate sitting on the runway at KSFO is 
around 27fps,  not bad for the older Nvidia graphic boards currently in 
the system.  With multiple cameras and monitors (3) it drops to around 
15fps,  marginal but perfectly understandable.  The problem starts when 
resetting the program, the frame rate drops ~50% per reset. After about 
4 or 5 resets the rate is down to 1 fps.

Has anyone else seen this problem? Something to do with the AI traffic?  
Not seeing this problem with the May07 pre-release of 0.9.11.  Is there 
a later 0.9.11 version available? And where might one find it?

Regards
John






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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Default glider model

[John Wojnaroski]

Melchior FRANZ wrote:

>* John Wojnaroski -- Sunday 18 November 2007:
>  
>
>>Vivian Meazza wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 
>>> Models/Geometry/null.ac
>>> 
>>>  
>>>
>
>  
>
>>Cannot find model file 
>>"/usr/local/FlightGear-osg/data/Aircraft/747-200/Models/Geometry/null.ac"
>>
>>
>  
>
>null.ac is in $FG_ROOT/Models/Geometry/ not
>$FG_ROOT/Aircraft/747-200/Models/Geometry/, unless you
>copied it there (for no good reason :-).
>
>  
>
Right, I knew that ;-) Thank you.
JW



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Default glider model

[John Wojnaroski]

Vivian Meazza wrote:

>John Wojnaroski
>
>  
>
>>Sent: 18 November 2007 16:15
>>To: FlightGear developers discussions
>>Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Default glider model
>>
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Running OSG-2.2 and FG cvs...
>>
>>After turning off all the models, panels, views, etc, I'm 
>>left with the 
>>default yellow-green glider model in the scene.  Does one have to set 
>>the view or eyepoint in front of the model to make it disappear or is 
>>there a more "correct" way to eliminate the aircraft model from the 
>>scene graph?
>>
>>Regards
>>John W.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I don't know exactly what you are trying to do, but if you use this in your
>-set.xml
>file you will get no model, and no yellow/BLUE glider
>   
>   Models/Geometry/null.ac
>   
>
>Not sure how you get rid of yellow/green ones
>
>
>  
>
OK,   my morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet and it was a late party 
last night  ;-)

Would like a plain OTW view with no panels, instruments, or cockpits.  
With 0.9.10 and 0.9.11 that did not seem to be a problem.  With the cvs 
version what is left is a small yellow polygon in the bottom center of 
the screen which I'm assuming is the nose of the defalt glider.  Here is 
the output

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/FlightGear-osg# ./747-sfo
Cannot find model file 
"/usr/local/FlightGear-osg/data/Aircraft/747-200/Models/Geometry/null.ac"
Failed to load aircraft from Aircraft/747-200/Models/Geometry/null.ac
(Falling back to glider.ac.)
  Model Author:
  Creation Date: 25 January 2006
  Version:   1.01
  Description:   747-200 with JT9D-7R4G2
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

JW








Thanks
John



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[Flightgear-devel] Default glider model

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Running OSG-2.2 and FG cvs...

After turning off all the models, panels, views, etc, I'm left with the 
default yellow-green glider model in the scene.  Does one have to set 
the view or eyepoint in front of the model to make it disappear or is 
there a more "correct" way to eliminate the aircraft model from the 
scene graph?

Regards
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] And again: VATSIM and FG?

[John Wojnaroski]

Jon Stockill wrote:

>Curtis Olson wrote:
>
>  
>
>>2. In terms of who does the interfacing work, us or them.  I think that 
>>boils down to who benefits.  I suspect that the FlightGear users will 
>>have a bigger benefit from getting access to the vatsim world than visa 
>>versa.  Based on what I've seen on the multiplayer servers, we might 
>>only add a dozen or so users to the vatsim world at any one time.  So if 
>>we benefit more than them, we can't get too uptight about who does the 
>>actual work, and it probably makes sense for one of our developers to do 
>>the honors.
>>
>>
>
>This needs to take into account the platforms that flightgear is used 
>on. If it's closed source then ideally whoever produces the app is going 
>to need the capability to build (at the very minimum) linux, mac, and 
>windows binaries, since handing the source over to someone else to let 
>them build for their own platform isn't an option.
>
>  
>
Duuuh,  if anyone would have bothered to read and digest earlier emails 
posted, they would know that Pep Ribal already has a working 
relationship and agreement with the IVAO folks to interface with 
Flightgear and is working these issues plus many others.  Instead of 
beating our gums and wringing our hands perhaps we should all pitch in 
and give him a hand.

Just my .0.02$

JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems

[John Wojnaroski]

AnMaster wrote:

>-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>Hash: SHA512
>
>
>
>John Wojnaroski wrote:
>  
>
>>I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did a few years 
>>ago part of his doctoral thesis.
>>
>>See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg.
>>
>>
>Another thing, in that picture there are some lines out in the water at runway
>28R and 28L. What are those lines? They don't seem to exist in current fgfs
>scenery. Why? I can find some lines there if I look at google map.
>

That jpeg is a few years old and IIRC used FG-0.9.8 at that time.  I 
believe those are the structures that hold
the approach lights and rabbit lights for the runways.

John



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems

[John Wojnaroski]

Tim Moore wrote:

>-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Harald JOHNSEN wrote:
>  
>
>>Vivian Meazza wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>John Wojnaroski
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>...
>  
>
>>>>I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did 
>>>>a few years 
>>>>ago part of his doctoral thesis.
>>>>
>>>>See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg.
>>>>
>>>>Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather 
>>>>than improve.  
>>>>Think we all lost a very promising
>>>>implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover 
>>>>what was lost.
>>>>
>>>>Stay tuned...
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>There are methods today to do real volumetric display with slices from a 
>>3d volume, so yes there is method to draw clouds a lot better than those.
>>The old implementation of the Harris code in fg was using hard coded 
>>cloud shape, hard coded cloud relative position between clouds, hard 
>>coded group of cloud around ksfo. The next implementation could do 
>>clouds everywhere on the planet, parametrable cloud shapes in an xml 
>>file (Harris was using a non editable binary format), parametrable cloud 
>>formation type.
>>Wasn't that some kind of improvement ? What could have been improved 
>>then is some new texture for the cloud particles or new shapes or 
>>whatever, frankly anybody could enhance what I did.
>>Hm wait, you did not realize that Harris clouds are *slow* and ppl on 
>>this list were using depreciated hardware...
>>Using his method to render the clouds is very easy to integrate in our code.
>>
>>
>For what it's worth, I recently ported Harris' old SkyWorks code, on which his
>contribution to FlightGear was based, to Linux for some playing around. I'll 
>make
>that code available soon, but I have to agree with Harald's critique of the old
>code. In particular, the key illumination step for a particular cloud is *very*
>expensive -- in the SkyWorks code it repeatedly reads back color values from 
>the
>frame buffer for each particle in a cloud -- which is why particular clouds 
>were
>hard-coded. Harris has since described algorithms that are more dynamic and 
>which
>require heavy-duty GPU firepower, something that always seems to be sensitive 
>topic
>here.
>
>A free cloud library based on Harris' work, integratable with other OSG 
>applications,
>would attract a large following and would be a very cool thing. In the mean 
>time,
>in order to learn some of the issues, it would be very good to port Harald's 
>plib-based
>work into OSG FlightGear.
>
>  
>
Are you suggesting a library based on Harris' work or Harald's? or both?

John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems

[John Wojnaroski]

Detlef Faber wrote:

>Am Samstag, den 01.09.2007, 22:24 +0100 schrieb Vivian Meazza:
>
>...
>
>  
>
>>I'm with you on this one John, except I can't see how to integrate that
>>solution, or the particle solution with the weather radar. But perhaps some
>>real expert can ...
>>
>>
I'm working on an idea using RTT, Mark's clouds, voxel positions, and my 
own version of a wx/ground radar, but other things keep getting in the 
way... 

>>
>>
>This is exactly the point I like to know. What is the best way to use
>particle systems in clouds. It is easy to populate a large area with
>somehow good looking billboard clouds, but they will not be dynamic. 
>
Hmmm,  why not?  If the clouds are formed from a set of data, just 
change/update the data and reload.  Just a question of finding a way to 
do it without bringing the sim to it's knees. Mark was looking into that 
but life got in the way. He finished his thesis and went to work for 
Nvidia in London.  Poor boy.  ;-)  

>The Particle solution can create constantly changing cloud formations,
>buildup of thunderclouds, thermal caps, even altostratus clouds can be
>implemented and dynamically placed. 
>I just need to know what actually can be used for Flightgear. If you
>need a generic cumulus cloud 500x800 m increasing in size dependent on
>temperature and drifting with the wind, it can be done. But if there is
>no means for placing it in the FG World it is usele
>  
>
HeHe, same problem I had with the clouds.  Never got my head around the 
plib scenegraph. The clouds worked but the implementation was always a 
bit of a kludge and needed some real work beyond my abilities at the time...

John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems

[John Wojnaroski]

I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did a few years 
ago part of his doctoral thesis.

See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg.

Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather than improve.  
Think we all lost a very promising
implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover what was lost.

Stay tuned...

John

>Detlef Faber wrote:
>  
>
>>Hello everybody,
>>
>>I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might
>>be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself:
>>
>>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg
>>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg
>>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg
>>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg
>>
>>Here is a zip containing the files.
>>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz
>>
>>Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them.
>>clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field.
>>
>>Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot (yet) be
>>placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get clipped by the
>>Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds.
>>
>>Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an idea how to
>>use these.
>>
>>Greetings
>>
>>Detlef
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>



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[Flightgear-devel] Callback problem??

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Working with the latest CVS from Flightgear and OSG-2.1.5.   Seeing this 
message repeating over and over...and over.

Also did a cvs update on the data.  Using the 737-300 aircraft model at 
the moment

> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""
> Cannot find image file ""


Not sure what or who is making the calback to  readImage(..) in 
model.cxx or is it happening in the splash callback.

The program is running, this is annoying and creating some really BIG 
log files.  Suppose one could disable printing the msg string, however 
that doesn't explain or fix the problem.  Any suggestions??

John W.



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[Flightgear-devel] Compile error

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

> renderer.cxx: In member function `void FGRenderer::splashinit()':
> renderer.cxx:403: error: `setUpdateVisitor' undeclared (first use this
>function)
> renderer.cxx:403: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only 
> once for
>each function it appears in.)
> renderer.cxx: In static member function `static bool 
> FGRenderer::pick(unsigned
>int, unsigned int, std::vector std::allocator
>>&, const osgGA::GUIEventAdapter*)':
> renderer.cxx:982: warning:

Trying latest cvs Flightgear and Simgear and OSG-2.1.4
and  "./configure --enable-osgviewer"

Do I need to specify some additional  options for OSG?

Thanks
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Gas turbine engines modeling

[John Wojnaroski]

Ulrik Hjort wrote:

>Hi,
>On the goal/wish list gas turbine engine modeling is mentioned. Anyone who 
>know the status on this project ? I'm interested in this topic but will not 
>jump into it before I know what the status is. Anyone already started on it ?
>
>  
>
I use a gas turbine model for the 747 project.  A copy was forwarded to 
the JSBSim project, but it was never incorporated into the baseline. 

It' s patterned after a model used at the NASA Lewis Research Center and 
a paper written by a professor at the Univ of Toledo in Ohio.  The exact 
reference is not handy ATM.

I'm in the process of reworking the model and setting it up for 0.9.11.  
There are some additional features that are provided for accurately 
modeling the fuel system on the 747 and how fuel moves through the 8 
tanks, cross-feed valves, and plumbing to the engines.  Also presents an 
idea  on modeling variances in engine performance on multi-engined aircraft.

It will be several weeks or more until I have the newer version 
working.  The first version is rough and needs work, but the essential 
pieces are there as well as the interfaces defined in JSBSim.cxx and 
FlightGear.  You can go to www.lfstech.com and download the complete 
source. It is a bit dated -- 0.9.8, but it should prove helpful.  Once 
the update is complete, we'll be posting that as well.

John W


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[Flightgear-devel] Remote freezing

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

I'm looking for a way to pause/unpause Flightgearfrom a remote 
workstation either via an ssh/telnet command string (ssh preferred for 
security) or from a separate interactive bash script running on the same 
host.

At the moment, my mind is drawing a complete  blank and the docs don't 
seem to address the problem.  Any suggestions would be most helpful.  I 
tried browsing through the source and some of the GUI code for ideas.  
It's got to be there somewhere, just can't seem to locate it.

Thanks
Jack




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [ANN] OSG - Improved Weather Radar

[John Wojnaroski]

Vivian Meazza wrote:

>John
>
>  
>
>>Sent: 15 June 2007 16:26
>>To: FlightGear developers discussions
>>Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] [ANN] OSG - Improved Weather Radar
>>
>>
>>Vivian Meazza wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>embryo plans for adding ground echoes. We have yet to port 
>>>  
>>>
>>3D clouds to 
>>
>>
>>>osg, so there is no weather to display on the osg version of wxradar.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>FWIW...
>>
>>Unfortunately, I won't have any time for about two or three 
>>months, but 
>>might suggest a relook at Mark Harris' code for 3D clouds as 
>>a candidate 
>>to port to OSG.  I personally liked the "look and feel" of the clouds 
>>produced by his algorithms over the current version
>>
>>
>>
>
>I rather agree with you, I don't recall the reason for the changeover.
>Perhaps someone could enlighten us? The new 3d clouds have potentially lots
>of good features like rain and turbulence, but I'm not sure we use them.
>
>  
>
When I first incorporated Mark's code, was unable to get my head around 
how to add objects to the plib scenegraph and with the help and patience 
of Curtis and others was finally able to get something working.  However 
it was no where near the best solution, but we lived with it.

When a new developer provided an integrated plib solution with a 
different cloud rendering approach, the "hack" was moved to the attic. 

Having reduced the entire 747 project down to two PCs (one for the 
cockpit and one for the Flightgear scenery on three projectors) was 
thinking of a third machine to produce enviromental effects, like a wind 
field using "smoothed" metar data to avoid the artifical shearing when 
changing stations, real-time cloud generation based on atmospheric 
conditions, improved earth/gravity model using Bessel functions, moving 
the AI to a dedicated machine and using the MP service, etc, etc. lots 
of ideas, very little time.

Regards
John W.






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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [ANN] OSG - Improved Weather Radar

[John Wojnaroski]

Vivian Meazza wrote:

>embryo plans for adding ground echoes. We have yet to port 3D clouds to osg,
>so there is no weather to display on the osg version of wxradar.
>
>  
>
FWIW...

Unfortunately, I won't have any time for about two or three months, but 
might suggest a relook at Mark Harris' code for 3D clouds as a candidate 
to port to OSG.  I personally liked the "look and feel" of the clouds 
produced by his algorithms over the current version

Regards
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Impressions from LinuxTag

[John Wojnaroski]

Matthias Boerner wrote:

>Hallo Stuart,
>
>we had two SUN Ultra 40 workstations each with two dual core Opterons 
>280, 8GB of memory and two Nvidia Quadro FX 3500 graphic cards. The 
>monitors were four SUN 20,1" TFT displays with a resolution of 
>1600x1200.
>
>  
>
>>It's not a particularly new feature, and it's documented in The
>>Manual:
>>
>>http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/getstart/getstartch5.html#x10-710005.4
>>
>>... as all good features should be ;)
>>
>>
>
>You only have to configure your xorg.conf file with four screens and 
>there is a section in the preferences.xml file in the FlightGear data 
>directory configuring four cameras for osgViewer. I will post both 
>files tomorrow on the list or I can document it in the wiki.
>  
>
Did this ever happen?

Regards
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Static pressure

[John Wojnaroski]

oops, me bad..  think I found the problem.

Forgot to load in the new scenery tiles for those locations

Sorry about that, apologies all around
John W.


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[Flightgear-devel] Static pressure

[John Wojnaroski]

Hmm,  it's been a while since I updated the FG version, was using 0.9.9  
and just updated to the latest pre-release for 0.9.11

Somewhere along the way the property for static pressure was altered;  
now that real bums me out as I use it as an input to the ADC on the 747 
and now the altimeter does not work. 

Looking at the environmental properties there are two variables 
'pressure-inhg' and 'pressure-sea-level-hg' .  sitting on the runway at 
KPHX with the older version of FG 'pressure-inhg' is 28.753 and 
pressure-sea-level-hg is 29.92.  with the latest version of FG both 
variables now read 29.92.  Same problem when located at Denver.

What changed and where do I go to find the static pressure for current 
aircraft location expressed as inHg?

Granted detailed regression testing would be nice, but seems as a 
minimum and as a courtesy to other users, developers  would check to see 
where others might be using a property before launching off on changes.

Not a happy camper
John W.








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Re: [Flightgear-devel] John's position on combat simulation;

[John Wojnaroski]

Martin Spott wrote:

>John Wojnaroski wrote:
>  
>
>>Martin Spott wrote:
>>
>>
>
>  
>
>>>Sorry, John, this has nothing to do with "selective morality" - as you
>>>allege. After reading these lines I'd say you have severe difficulties
>>>telling the difference between flying and shooting/killing.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>Ooo,  I don't think so.
>>
>>
>>
>>>To make understanding it easier: Many/most of the old but also the
>>>modern warbirds are fascinating aircraft from a technical as well as
>>>  
>>>
>>>from an aviatic point of view - no doubt. Yet this is significantly
>>
>>
>>>different from actually performing the shooting at some other aircraft
>>>or dropping bombs.
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>Ahhh, so the basis for acrobatic manuevering was...and the reason 
>>you need to put 9G's on your body is.  Your first point is quite 
>>correct, but again fly them to you heart's content and DON'T complain if 
>>others wish to do the same and simulate combat. That is all I am saying,
>>
>>
>
>Yes, I _do_ domplain !
>
>Here's your missing link: The simple reason that an aircraft was
>originally _built_ for shooting and dropping bombs doesn't justify to
>really _perform_ this action in a simulation as well. You're taking a
>way too simple route here,
>
>  
>
I'm a simple guy...

Hmmm,  that seems a bit illogical.  Without the primary function or 
purpose for combat the aircraft would not have been built in the first 
place.  So if you feel that combat action, real or simulated, are not 
justified, don't build the vehicle or item that fulfills it's prime 
function in the first instance.  In other words, why build something if 
you don't intend to use it for the purpose it was built.

John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] John's position on combat simulation; Was: Data change log for next release

[John Wojnaroski]

Martin Spott wrote:

>John Wojnaroski wrote:
>
>  
>
>>As Curt noted we've already crossed over into the "twilight zone".  If 
>>you're opposed to the idea then lets remove ALL models of military 
>>aircraft AND civilian derivatives and ALL operations that have a 
>>military/combat purpose (e.g: tacan, HUDs, air-to-air refueling, carrier 
>>operations, etc).  By the same token, if you are of this opinion and use 
>>any of these models or features your argument and position seems a 
>>little disingenuous.
>>
>>I've not done a count by type of the aircraft in Flightgear, but there 
>>are a large number of military aircraft which are designed and built for 
>>one reason only and one reason only -- combat or combat support.  I'm 
>>not a big fan of selective morality -- "Oh, I like to fly these 
>>airplanes and build the models, but...
>>
>>
>
>Sorry, John, this has nothing to do with "selective morality" - as you
>allege. After reading these lines I'd say you have severe difficulties
>telling the difference between flying and shooting/killing.
>
Ooo,  I don't think so.

>To make understanding it easier: Many/most of the old but also the
>modern warbirds are fascinating aircraft from a technical as well as
>from an aviatic point of view - no doubt. Yet this is significantly
>different from actually performing the shooting at some other aircraft
>or dropping bombs.
>  
>
Ahhh, so the basis for acrobatic manuevering was...and the reason 
you need to put 9G's on your body is.  Your first point is quite 
correct, but again fly them to you heart's content and DON'T complain if 
others wish to do the same and simulate combat. That is all I am saying,

>>Flightgear is more than a game and while there are highly sophisticated 
>>and sound engineering elements to the code I would not classify it as a 
>>true flight simulator, rather within a context of lower, limited 
>>applications. For a *real* flight simulator one might consider:
>>
>>
>[... lots of interesing features ]
>
>Certainly not all of these features are part of FlightGear's
>development goals - multi-platform portability for example excludes
>using only RTOS' exclusively as foundation of the simulation.
>Nevertheless you should consider that the fidelity of such a simulation
>is always depending on how much manpower is available for implementing
>these features. You sound a bit like a weisenheimer by judging the
>goals of the FlightGear project just by features that are _currently_
>not implemented.
>
Let's be clear, FlightGear is not a game, nor is it a simulator.  Of course, an 
RTOS precludes multi-platform portability and given that as a goal the features 
mentioned are difficult if not impossible to implement or simply so labor/team 
intensive that it is impractical to attempt without a significant financial 
investment.  But don't allude to the fact that FlightGear is a flight simulator 
any more than FS200x is a flight simulator, or X-Plane or any other PC product 
for that matter.

Regards
John W.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Data change log for next release

[John Wojnaroski]

John Wojnaroski wrote:

>>>The other thing I didn't notice mention of is the superb improvement in
>>>ground 
>>>type representation in YASim which finally gives us water (with
>>>waves/swell) 
>>>for seaplane operations and of course correct behaviour on other
>>>surfaces for 
>>>other types of aircraft.
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>I'm sure John W. will pick this up when he goes through the flightgear
>>source changes.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I'll have that done over the weekend, then you all can "ping" on me.  ;-)
>
>JW
>  
>
OK, here is the first cut for major changes/updates sorted by date of 
inclusion.  I'm defining "major" as a clearly visible attribute or 
feature of the simulation that is readily apparent to the user.  There 
were many, many changes and I still need to work my way through 
identifying the changes that were bug-fixes,  performance improvements 
(run and compile times), coding standards, etc etc.

MAJOR UPDATES
===
Air to Air Tacan
Improved soaring scenarios
Refueling capability on MP network
Use of all textured fonts on panels
Interactive/scripted control of AI aircraft
"Passive" mode for autopilot
Addition of fluxgate compass
Addition of GSDI for helicopters
Addtition of new MIL-STD HUD
Dynamic sun color changes
Addition to read and parase airway data files
Major improvements in taxiing and ground operations of AI aircraft
Addition of protocol for Garmin 400 series
Improved ground properties "feel" with YASIM aircraft
New altimetry method

I'll try to finish up the rest over the weekend.  If someone would add 
these to the wiki list

And another thing...

I've been bemused by all the discussion vis-a-vis flightgear as a combat 
simulator and am somewhat agnostic on the whole question.
As Curt noted we've already crossed over into the "twilight zone".  If 
you're opposed to the idea then lets remove ALL models of military 
aircraft AND civilian derivatives and ALL operations that have a 
military/combat purpose (e.g: tacan, HUDs, air-to-air refueling, carrier 
operations, etc).  By the same token, if you are of this opinion and use 
any of these models or features your argument and position seems a 
little disingenuous.

I've not done a count by type of the aircraft in Flightgear, but there 
are a large number of military aircraft which are designed and built for 
one reason only and one reason only -- combat or combat support.  I'm 
not a big fan of selective morality -- "Oh, I like to fly these 
airplanes and build the models, but...

Perhaps we provide a "delete" function in FlightGear.  Those who feel 
military/combat aircraft and operations are immoral can use the feature 
to remove all vestiges of the same and sleep peaceful at night knowing 
their version is safe and pure.  ;-)

And one more thing...

Flightgear is more than a game and while there are highly sophisticated 
and sound engineering elements to the code I would not classify it as a 
true flight simulator, rather within a context of lower, limited 
applications. For a *real* flight simulator one might consider:

1) an RTOS as the basic architecture,
2) improved earth model using 2nd and 4th order bessel functions,
3) 6 DOFs  that provide member bending aero data versus rigid fix body 
point mass solutions,
4) high precision input control systems with 12 or 16 bit accuracy,
5) control force feedback systems,
6) interrupt driven software/hardware interfacing, and
7) fully collimnated visual display systems

Please don't misunderstand,  FlightGear is a great piece of work and the 
collective effort of a number of bright and dedicated individuals.  Plus 
you can't beat the price! 

Well, enough of my rant.

Regards
John W.

   


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Data change log for next release

[John Wojnaroski]

>>The other thing I didn't notice mention of is the superb improvement in
>>ground 
>>type representation in YASim which finally gives us water (with
>>waves/swell) 
>>for seaplane operations and of course correct behaviour on other
>>surfaces for 
>>other types of aircraft.
>>
>>
>
>I'm sure John W. will pick this up when he goes through the flightgear
>source changes.
>

I'll have that done over the weekend, then you all can "ping" on me.  ;-)

JW


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[Flightgear-devel] Simgear updates for next release

[John Wojnaroski]

OK, here is the list of salient changes for the next release of 
Simgear.  If I've missed any please let us know

Redefined airport signage class to a more general class for all signs
Added new commands to create signs
More stringent header dependencies
Sign emissive values settable via material xml files
Fixed initial texture path problems
Waypoint position argument added to route insertion method
Fixed memory leak with GlyphSigns
Nasty bug fix to nasal code that causes stack underflow
Improved dynamic sun colors
Update to World Magnetic Model 2005
Added method to return number of listeners
Misc updates to improve compiler/platform compatability

John W.


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[Flightgear-devel] Frame rates

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Is there any info/data on FG frame rates with OSG vis-a-vis previous 
plib versions running on comparable hardware?

Running with the 23 Apr release of OSG and the latest FG/SG software I'm 
seeing frame rates around 22 fps.  The same configuration at KSFO with 
plib and the 0.9.10 release produces ~65fps. 

I thought that while the initial performance of OSG/FG when first 
released was much slower there had been significant improvements over 
the course of the last few months??  Still a believer in OSG, would just 
like to see a bit higher frame rate.  Might the hardware requirements be 
a bit higher? 

Wonderng if I might be missing some subtle points or optimizations in 
configuring the graphics systems for OSG? Running with Debian X, linux 
2.6.17, and the latest Nvidia driver.

Regards
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Strange compile error

[John Wojnaroski]

msg to self ;-)

problem is with neither distribution, just a dumb error on my part 
setting up the openGL libraries and include files.

Sorry for the noise
John

> John Wojnaroski wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm not sure where or who this problem belongs to, so posting to both 
>> groups
>>
>> Using Debian 'etch', linux-2.6.17, gcc-4.1.
>>
>> OSG is SVN from 23 Apr 07 and Simgear/FlightGear is latest CVS as of 
>> 27 Apr 07.
>>
>> Initial build went just fine on all programs and flightgear program 
>> came up just fine.  After running a few short flights from KSFO with 
>> 310 model and feeding the data via the LAN to the hardware cockpit
>>
>> Made some minor changes in the Network directory to a data class 
>> structure and upon recompiling got this
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>
>>> Making all in ATC
>>> make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/local/src/Flightgear/src/ATC'
>>> if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. 
>>> -I../../src  -I/usr/local/include  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT ATCmgr.o 
>>> -MD -MP -MF ".deps/ATCmgr.Tpo" -c -o ATCmgr.o ATCmgr.cxx; \
>>> then mv -f ".deps/ATCmgr.Tpo" ".deps/ATCmgr.Po"; else rm -f 
>>> ".deps/ATCmgr.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:173: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:174: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:175: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:176: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:177: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:178: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:179: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:180: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:180: error: expected ';' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:181: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:182: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:183: error: expected `)' before 
>>> '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:185: error: 'GenBuffersProc' 
>>> does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:186: error: 'BindBufferProc' 
>>> does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:187: error: 'BufferDataProc' 
>>> does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:188: error: 'BufferSubDataProc' 
>>> does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:189: error: 'DeleteBuffersProc' 
>>> does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:190: error: 'IsBufferProc' does 
>>> not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:191: error: 
>>> 'GetBufferSubDataProc' does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:192: error: 'MapBufferProc' does 
>>> not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:193: error: 'UnmapBufferProc' 
>>> does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:194: error: 
>>> 'GetBufferParameterivProc' does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:195: error: 
>>> 'GetBufferPointervProc' does not name a type
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject: In member function 'bool 
>>> osg::BufferObject::Extensions::isBufferObjectSupported() const':
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:156: error: '_glGenBuffers' was 
>>> not declared in this scope
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/State: At global scope:
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1060: error: expected `)' before '*' token
>>> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1061: error: expected `)' before '*' token
>>> /us

[Flightgear-devel] Strange compile error

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

I'm not sure where or who this problem belongs to, so posting to both groups

Using Debian 'etch', linux-2.6.17, gcc-4.1.

OSG is SVN from 23 Apr 07 and Simgear/FlightGear is latest CVS as of 27 
Apr 07.

Initial build went just fine on all programs and flightgear program came 
up just fine.  After running a few short flights from KSFO with 310 
model and feeding the data via the LAN to the hardware cockpit

Made some minor changes in the Network directory to a data class 
structure and upon recompiling got this

<<

> Making all in ATC
> make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/local/src/Flightgear/src/ATC'
> if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. 
> -I../../src  -I/usr/local/include  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT ATCmgr.o 
> -MD -MP -MF ".deps/ATCmgr.Tpo" -c -o ATCmgr.o ATCmgr.cxx; \
> then mv -f ".deps/ATCmgr.Tpo" ".deps/ATCmgr.Po"; else rm -f 
> ".deps/ATCmgr.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:173: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:174: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:175: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:176: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:177: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:178: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:179: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:180: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:180: error: expected ';' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:181: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:182: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:183: error: expected `)' before 
> '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:185: error: 'GenBuffersProc' does 
> not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:186: error: 'BindBufferProc' does 
> not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:187: error: 'BufferDataProc' does 
> not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:188: error: 'BufferSubDataProc' 
> does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:189: error: 'DeleteBuffersProc' 
> does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:190: error: 'IsBufferProc' does 
> not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:191: error: 'GetBufferSubDataProc' 
> does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:192: error: 'MapBufferProc' does 
> not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:193: error: 'UnmapBufferProc' does 
> not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:194: error: 
> 'GetBufferParameterivProc' does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:195: error: 
> 'GetBufferPointervProc' does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject: In member function 'bool 
> osg::BufferObject::Extensions::isBufferObjectSupported() const':
> /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:156: error: '_glGenBuffers' was 
> not declared in this scope
> /usr/local/include/osg/State: At global scope:
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1060: error: expected `)' before '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1061: error: expected `)' before '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1062: error: expected `)' before '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1063: error: expected `)' before '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1064: error: expected `)' before '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1065: error: expected `)' before '*' token
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1069: error: 'ActiveTextureProc' does not 
> name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1070: error: 'ActiveTextureProc' does not 
> name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1071: error: 'FogCoordPointerProc' does 
> not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1072: error: 'SecondaryColorPointerProc' 
> does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1073: error: 'VertexAttribPointerProc' 
> does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1074: error: 'EnableVertexAttribProc' 
> does not name a type
> /usr/local/include/osg/State:1075: error: 'DisableVertexAttribProc' 
> does not name a type
> make[2]: *** [ATCmgr.o] Error 1
> make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/Flightgear/src/ATC'
> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/Flightgear/src'
> make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> bridge:/usr/local/src/Flightgear#

 >

Whoa!!!  Strange,  looks like something is missing. 

Then tried a clean make with the FG/SG code and got the same error.  
Have not tried rebuilding the OSG code.

Does anyone have any idea where to start looking?

Thanks
John W.



-
Th

[Flightgear-devel] Compile error

[John Wojnaroski]

Downloaded the latest OSG version (23APR07) and latest flightgear source 
from CVS.  Here is the error mesgs...

make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear/src/ATC'
if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. -I../../src  
-I/usr/local/include  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT ATC.o -MD -MP -MF 
".deps/ATC.Tpo" -c -o ATC.o ATC.cxx; \
then mv -f ".deps/ATC.Tpo" ".deps/ATC.Po"; else rm -f 
".deps/ATC.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. -I../../src  
-I/usr/local/include  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT atis.o -MD -MP -MF 
".deps/atis.Tpo" -c -o atis.o atis.cxx; \
then mv -f ".deps/atis.Tpo" ".deps/atis.Po"; else rm -f 
".deps/atis.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
In file included from /usr/local/include/osg/Image:17,
 from /usr/local/include/osg/Texture:18,
 from /usr/local/include/osg/Texture2D:17,
 from /usr/local/include/simgear/scene/model/model.hxx:22,
 from AIPlane.hxx:25,
 from tower.hxx:37,
 from ATCmgr.hxx:34,
 from atis.cxx:50:
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:173: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:174: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:175: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:176: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:177: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:178: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:179: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:180: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:181: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:182: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:183: error: syntax error before `*' 
token
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:185: error: 'GenBuffersProc' is used 
as a
   type, but is not defined as a type.
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:186: error: 'BindBufferProc' is used 
as a
   type, but is not defined as a type.
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:187: error: 'BufferDataProc' is used 
as a
   type, but is not defined as a type.
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:188: error: 'BufferSubDataProc' is 
used as
   a type, but is not defined as a type.
|
|
|
   as a type, but is not defined as a type.
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject: In member function `bool
   osg::BufferObject::Extensions::isBufferObjectSupported() const':
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:156: error: `_glGenBuffers' undeclared
   (first use this function)
/usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:156: error: (Each undeclared 
identifier is
   reported only once for each function it appears in.)
make[2]: *** [atis.o] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear/src/ATC'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/FlightGear/src'
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
rampart:/usr/local/src/FlightGear#

Don't have time this evening to dig deeper, but thought I might post for 
any suggestions in the interim

It compiled yesterday with Debian sarge and the earlier release of OSG, 
but then I went and moved Debian up to etch and did a "cvs update -Pd" 
on all the OSG, OT, Simgear, and Flightgear files. 

Regards
John W



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS Base package

[John Wojnaroski]

Yes, that's it. :-)

Thank you  Georg

John W.

 Vollnhals wrote:

>John Wojnaroski schrieb:
>  
>
>>Silly question follows
>>
>>After several months I finally found the time to do a new and fresh 
>>install of the latest OSG software and FlightGear.  Build went just fine 
>>and now ready to run, except can't load the base package.
>>
>>I'm having trouble finding the link to the CVS base package and can't 
>>recall how or where that is done, so before digging through more docs 
>>and thrashing around in the website, thought I might ask if someone 
>>could take a little pity on me and remind me how to do that ;-)
>>
>>Thanks
>>John W.
>>
>>
>>-
>>  
>>
>>
>Hi John,
>
>/Getting the DATA/
>
>Go into your FlightGear folder ie. /usr/local/FlightGear.
>
>Open a terminal session:
>
>cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 login
>password is "guest"
>cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co data
>
>(if you should only update later you have to go into the data-folder and
>would only write "cvs update -dP")
>
>At the moment there is no difference between the OSG and PLIB data. This
>might change. Then you have to download the PLIB data branch with
>
>...
>cd data
>cvs up -rPRE_OSG_PLIB_20061029
>
>
>Regards
>Georg EDDW
>
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[Flightgear-devel] CVS Base package

[John Wojnaroski]

Silly question follows

After several months I finally found the time to do a new and fresh 
install of the latest OSG software and FlightGear.  Build went just fine 
and now ready to run, except can't load the base package.

I'm having trouble finding the link to the CVS base package and can't 
recall how or where that is done, so before digging through more docs 
and thrashing around in the website, thought I might ask if someone 
could take a little pity on me and remind me how to do that ;-)

Thanks
John W.


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[Flightgear-devel] airport scenery

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Curt was going to post a short request on this topic, but given his very 
busy schedule, he may not have a chance. So if this winds up as a double 
post on the topic, my apologies.

I need a scenery type person who could build detailed scenes of selected 
airports in  South America.  Ground vehicles, taxiway signs, ramps, 
gateways, etc.  work would be done on a professional basis with rates 
and fees to be negotiated.  Time schedule is fairly ambitous with 
delivery in about 4-5 weeks.  There are about 10 locations to consider.

If interested, contact me off list via private email or phone.  You may 
obtain the contact info from Curtis.

Thank You
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG segfault

[John Wojnaroski]

It's been a while,  I found it.
JW

John Wojnaroski wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Just did an update from cvs of the latest and greatest,  build went just 
>fine, but...
>
>at run time, the program segfaults after the welcome screen comes up.  
>Before running down the halls screaming and setting my hair on fire, 
>thought an update to the base package might be appropriate ;-)
>
>Problem is, can't seem to find a link on the website to a cvs version of 
>the base package.  Any suggestions where to look
>
>Thanks
>John W.
>
>
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>  
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[Flightgear-devel] FG segfault

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi,

Just did an update from cvs of the latest and greatest,  build went just 
fine, but...

at run time, the program segfaults after the welcome screen comes up.  
Before running down the halls screaming and setting my hair on fire, 
thought an update to the base package might be appropriate ;-)

Problem is, can't seem to find a link on the website to a cvs version of 
the base package.  Any suggestions where to look

Thanks
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Zero lag altimeter

[John Wojnaroski]

AJ MacLeod wrote:

>On Thursday 22 February 2007 13:28, John Denker wrote:
>  
>
>>Solving this problem is easy:
>>
>>
>
>I'd say so too... for "exact" values rather which don't rely on modelled 
>instrumentation can't one just use the values provided under "/position" in 
>the property tree?
>
>  
>
That would give you position in inertial space, but aircraft have to fly 
on pressure levels to maintain desired altitudes and/or flight levels.  
Which also needs to be adjusted with the Kollsman setting for reference 
to sea level.

Even the most advanced avionics/inertial systems still rely on this use 
of air pressure to define aircraft altitude. Just that air data 
computers can correct for things like installation errors, lags, and such.

Thanks John for your info and help

Regards
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear remote "modules"

[John Wojnaroski]

Ralf Gerlich wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Rob Ratcliff wrote:
>  
>
>>You could use an event distribution (Pub/Sub) paradigm based on 
>>something like the CORBA Notification Service (Event Service), the CORBA 
>>property service, the newer Data Distribution Service (DDS) or something 
>>like the High Level Architecture (HLA). A CORBA ORB TAO supports 
>>communication across shared memory or sockets depending on where the 
>>clients and services are running. I know that TAO is used quite a bit 
>>for real time control systems communication for the military.
>>
>>
>
>Do you know the order of magnitude of the real time deadlines for the
>subsystem where TAO has been used?
>
>  
>
See http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/PDF/words-02.pdf for some info on subject

JW



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear remote "modules"

[John Wojnaroski]

leee wrote:

>On Monday 12 February 2007 17:54, Jim Campbell wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>Curtis has already hinted as to how the following may be done with his
>>"remote" FDM.
>>To my mind flightgear can be broken down into distinct plugin
>>"modules". There is the FDM, the "external world" visualisation,the
>>cockpit input and output (ie joystick,pedals,switches and displays) and
>>possibly a motion system. These can be interconnected with some inter
>>process communication scheme. All of the modules could be run on a SMP
>>hardware (e.g dual dual-core cpus) or on separate computers. There has
>>been some discussion on multi-threading which would handle the first
>>(via shared memory IPC perhaps) but without an operating system that
>>can migrate threads to other networked processors then I think a more
>>flexible approach may be "self-contained" modules communicating by
>>passing "properties" over TCP. The "remote" FDM is already a
>>possibility and there is an example of a remote joystick but how easy
>>would it be to break up the rest of flightgear? Any ideas anyone?
>>cheers
>>Jim
>>
>>
>
>I too think that this would be the best approach for making FG MPP compatible. 
> 
>
>The greatest cpu hog, so I believe, is the graphics subsystem but even though 
>the other subsystems don't require as much processing power they are still 
>limited in the resources they get.  For example, while I was doing a couple 
>of tests for what appears to be an A/P problem I noticed that the rate of the 
>controllers were varying even though I'd specified a  period.  This is 
>certainly going to result in some unpredictable behaviour across different 
>systems and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other subsystems are 
>equally limited in their rates.
>
>  
>
I solved that problem on the 747 sim by going to real-time linux.  The 
open source version from DIAPM and Xeonami are just as good as the more 
expensive commercial stuff.  Now there is a kernel-ready distribution 
available for linux, see 
http://www.mecatronica.eesc.usp.br/~aroca/slax-rt/   although installing 
RTAI/Xenomai from scratch and recompiling the kernel is not all that 
difficult.  All the RT tasks now run rock solid.  It has made a big 
difference along with a real-time hardware interrupt module in how the 
controller(s) function and the response of the system to external stimulii.

You could possibly redo FlightGear in real-time, but you would lose 
portability. 

Regards
John W.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear and IVAO

[John Wojnaroski]

Pep Ribal wrote:

>What I'm asking to you is some help regarding communication between 
>Flightgear and the client, which will have to produce an information 
>flow between the simulator and the server, regarding weather, planes 
>position, and so on.
>
>  
>
Hi Pep,

Over the past few years we've tried to work with the VATSIM folks to 
develop a similar interface, but the GPL license an their proprietary 
stuff kept getting in the way. Perhaps with IVAO it might be different

At any rate, I've been with FG for several years now and would welcome 
such an interface. (see the 747 project page on the FG website).  Curt 
and I have taken the sim to several shows -- a real-time, live interface 
to other players/controllers would have been a show stopper.  I'll be 
glad to help and try to be your mentor, especially in the communications 
area; so if you have any questions, need some code snippets, fire away 
with your questions.

Regards
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] altAlert problems

[John Wojnaroski]

Roy Vegard Ovesen wrote:

>On Sunday 21 January 2007 19:15, John Wojnaroski wrote:
>  
>
>>Likewise, not sure where you're going with this.  ATC simply reports the
>>current altimeter setting to the pilot. Above FL180 all altimeters are
>>set to 29.92 or 1013.  Encoding  report aircraft altitude, otherwise ATC
>>relies on what the pilot reports as aircraft altitude.
>>
>>
>
>I did a lot of research when I wrote the code for the encoder and transponder. 
>Unfortunately I didn't note where I found the information. I seem to remember 
>that the encoder encoded the pressure to pressure altitude, _not_ ASL 
>altitude. I'm searching the web right now to try and find info that can 
>confirm this.
>
>  
>
>>But you might try
>>
>>Ref. Aviation Formulary, Ed Williams, www.best.com/~williams/avform.htm
>>
>>for data on a standard atmosphere
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for the link, I'll look into that.
>
>
>  
>
FYI for anyone interested in the topic and how things work

All encoding systems, whether they are built into the altimeter or not, 
transmit your altitude corrected to 29.92 inches, or standard barometric 
pressure. ATC's ground equipment makes the altitude corrections directly 
onto the controller's screen. In short, what you dial up on your 
altimeter has no effect on what they see on their screens.

 There are no specific operating instructions for using an encoding 
altimeter other than setting it to the local barometric pressure and 
selecting Mode A/C on the transponder. The computer at the ground radar 
site as well as the altimeter electronics are referenced to 29.92" Hg. 
This means that the altimeter always supplies altitude codes based on 
29.92" Hg regardless of the altimeter's barometric setting. The ground 
computer automatically computes the difference between the "29.92 
altitude" received from the aircraft and the local barometric pressure. 
It presents the controller the proper "MSL altitude." Since the 
altimeter electronics are referenced to 29.92" Hg, changing the 
altimeter setting does not change the controller's altitude readout.  No 
cheating allowed ;-)

Regards
JW






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Re: [Flightgear-devel] altAlert problems

[John Wojnaroski]

Roy Vegard Ovesen wrote:

>On Sunday 21 January 2007 17:42, Martin Spott wrote:
>  
>
>>Roy Vegard Ovesen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I asked on the developer list if anyone knew how ATC converted from
>>>pressure altitude to altitude, because I think that would be the correct
>>>way to do it. Does anyone know?
>>>  
>>>
>>How do you mean this ? They simply 'know' the reference pressure in the
>>area where you're currently flying. It seems I didn't unterstand why
>>you're asking 
>>
>>
>
>What I'm asking for is an equation to convert from pressure altitude to ASL 
>altitude. Something like
> ASL_alt = f(pressure_alt, ref_pressure)
>  
>
Likewise, not sure where you're going with this.  ATC simply reports the 
current altimeter setting to the pilot. Above FL180 all altimeters are 
set to 29.92 or 1013.  Encoding  report aircraft altitude, otherwise ATC 
relies on what the pilot reports as aircraft altitude.

But you might try

Ref. Aviation Formulary, Ed Williams, www.best.com/~williams/avform.htm

for data on a standard atmosphere

JW



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Idea: VOR/ILS/NDB "Emergency" Localizer

[John Wojnaroski]

Curtis Olson wrote:

> On 1/10/07, Martin Spott <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Yup, this is not really new to me as I've been already trying
> different
> yokes and rudder pedals with different simulated C172's. This is why I
> was asking for the type of the pedals, because according to my
> experience the pedals that people tend to have are the most
> 'disgusting' piece in the so called modern PC-based flight simulation.
>
>
>
> Yes, you are probably going to need to spend several thousand $$$ to 
> get a really nice set of pedals ... and that is without any active 
> control loading which doesn't help you on engine out situations in a 
> multiengine plane.  There is a company called Real Simulation (in 
> Spain I believe) that makes a lot of really nice jet fighter style 
> controls and enclosures.  http://www.realsimulator.com/

>
>
> Was looking into active control loading ... there is a company called 
> Wittenstein (sp?) that quoted us $100,000 for a 3 axis system ... 
> ouch!  I know a guy here where I work who has done a lot of force 
> feedback control in the context of land based vehicles which is pretty 
> analogous, so I think we might try to build something ourselves and 
> see how far that gets us.  I know another guy (Hi Jack) :-) who might 
> be able to do it all with R/C servos powered from a USB port, but the 
> resulting forces might be on the light side of the spectrum. :-)

DC motors would work better, but hacking a servo is cheaper and the 
software is simpler as the servo electronics help with setting and 
controlling the PWM to the servo.

Actually, I can run up to Mirage dry lake bed and get a set of Boeing 
style rudder pedals for around 300 dollars from a 727/747 carcass.   Add 
a few pressure transducers and positional pots and you have differential 
braking/steering for probably less than a K.  Force feedback is another 
question, but that can be worked.  Attach a yoke or collar assembly to 
the pedal pivot point attached to opposing compression springs. Extend 
or shorten the spring stop points with  some with some sort of 
turnbuckle arrangement. Vary the position(s) as a function of Q, g, AOA, 
or phases of the moon  or whatever. ;-)  Idea is to avoid messy 
hydraulics and all the problems that entails. It has been on my list of 
things to do for some time now, maybe this year.

Curt, I'll send you a URL of a small company up in Palmdale that might 
be able to help you. I don't have it at the moment.

Regards
John W.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums?

[John Wojnaroski]

Curtis Olson wrote:

> Now that I am hosting the FlightGear web site with a commercial 
> hosting service, it becomes quite easy to setup online "forums" using 
> phpBB2.
>
> I know our development culture is built around mailing lists.  I'm 
> sure the FlightGear community will be decisively split between forums 
> versus mailing lists if I ask people's preferences ... so I'm not 
> expecting a consensus here.  Is this anything that is worth 
> exploring?  Is it worth having both options available?  Would end user 
> support benefit from forums?  Would forums be useful for those that 
> have trouble with sourceforge's spam blockers?  A backup communication 
> mechanism for when the sourceforge email lists experience their 
> inevitable down time?
>
> Thoughts?
>
Anything you can do to foster communications, increase awareness, reduce 
"newbee" initiation, and expand levels of understanding is positive.  
Forums seem to be a bit more structured but some folks like that when 
searching for a specific topic

JW


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[Flightgear-devel] 747 Project Page update

[John Wojnaroski]

Looking over the FG-747 project page this weekend...

Most of the photos are dated and need updating. Hopefully I'll find some
time this month to do that and update the text as well.  One new area is
completion of the throttle quadrant. Not a bad piece of work, if I must
say.  A big accomplishment was converting an older ISA based A/D board
to a USB interface and single 8-channel A/D chip. (see pic)   Every time
we went to a show I lived with dread that the older PC with the ISA
slots would die and finding a replacement motherboard would be nye on
impossible.  Still need a PCI parallel port capability to handle
interrupts so until PCI and USB are overtaken interfacing to hardware
should be less of a problem.  Curt posted some new pics of the
throttles, take a peek

Now the transition of Fg to OSG dovetails nicely with my 2007 plans to
move everthing inside a cockpit shell and build a fully collimated
wrap-around FOV and overhead panels.

Thanks to Curt for taking the time and effort to post the new pics.

Regards
John W.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] real-time data

[John Wojnaroski]

Vikas N Kumar wrote:

>Hi All
>I need some help in collecting real-time data from FlightGear while
>the aircraft is being flown. I will need it when I interface it with
>hardware for instrument panels etc.
>Could someone point where I could look for some info on this ? Either
>in the source code or in some manual. I have read the Getting Started
>Manual, and have not found anything in this regard except Jon
>Wojnaroski's 747 project but that does not give any info on how the
>realtime data was taken from FG or something similar.
>
>Any help will be appreciated. Fyi, I use Linux and play FG on Linux
>and all my work will be on Linux.
>
>Thanks and regards,
>Vikas
>
>  
>
Look in the Network  directory.  There is the protocol for sending data 
from flightgear via a LAN to a display machine.  There are two data 
structures,  opengc which is probably out of date and sync with the 
latest flightgear and a 2nd lfsglass which should work with 0.9-10.

Here is a short shell script for setting up the network calls

#!/bin/sh

/usr/local/bin/fgfs \
--fg-root=/usr/local/FlightGear  --bpp=32 \
--airport=KSFO \
--aircraft=c310 \
--disable-panel \
--disable-random-objects \
--visibility=25000  --disable-clouds \
--httpd=6500
#--native-ctrls=socket,in,30,,5700,udp \
#--opengc=socket,out,30,broadcast,6000,udp
#--native-fdm=socket,out,30,192.168.2.100,5800,udp \
#--native-fdm=socket,out,30,192.168.2.101,5900,udp


You can also download a working fgfs and source from www.lfstech.com 
that was used at a Mathworks seminar last year.

Hope this helps.

Regards
John W.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] C/C++ code to interface with FlightGear

[John Wojnaroski]

Melchior FRANZ wrote:

>* Curtis Olson -- Tuesday 21 November 2006 18:22:
>  
>
>>Does anyone have any sample C/C++ code that will interface with FlightGear's
>>--telnet interface?
>>
>>
>
>What about  ./scripts/example/fgfsclient.{c,cxx}  ?
>
>  
>
You might take a look at Chap 15, page 589 in "UNIX Network Programming" 
by Stevens.

Regards
John W.


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[Flightgear-devel] Success

[John Wojnaroski]

Okay,  enough fun for one day..

Flightgear cvs built and runs with OpenSceneGraph cvs.

Looks like around 40fps out of KSFO

Thanks for all the help
JW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cockpit builders USB interface

[John Wojnaroski]

Hi Martin,

I think I have just what your looking for and can help you.

Have a prototype board I just finished for interfacing my throttles on 
the 747 project.  I'll also be using it for the flight yoke, rudders, 
toe brakes, spoilers, etc

It provides eight A/D channels with a 12 bit data word per channel and a 
USB interface.  I have a few blank PCBs left and USB chips.  Can also 
provide the software drivers for the board. Driver is C++

If interested contact me via private email for more details

Regards
John W

>Hi Jim,
>
>Jim Campbell wrote:
>
>  
>
>>For those building their own cockpits and requiring input and output 
>>from switches and rotary controls and to lights and relays etc have a 
>>look at the Velleman USB experimenters interface boards!
>>
>>
>
>Hey, I didn't realize that they still exist. I've build an audio
>amplifier from a Velleman circuit diagram more than 20 years ago 
>Thanks for the pointer !
>
>What I'm still looking for is a board that offers at least 6 or 8 high
>resolution (12 bit minimum) analog differential input and provides a
>USB interface that can be easily used as a replacement for a joystick.
>Do you know a source for such a board as well ?
>
>Regards,
>   Martin.
>  
>



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cockpit builders USB interface

[John Wojnaroski]

IMHO sounds a like a bit of a forced fit for a limited capability...


OTH I've built a board for the 747 project that provides input/output 
for 128 discrete static switches, 64 momentary switches, 16 rotary 
encoders, and drivers 128 LEDs and/or 16 numeric 7-segment LED displays. 
It all fits on a 5x7 PCB and has a USB connection.  Pics are on the 747 
project page of the FG website.

There are also other sites that detail board construction for cockpit 
builders; while mostly MS based, there are a few that use Linux.  The 
URLs escape me at the moment.  But several months ago a group in Spain 
(opencockpits???) contacted Curtis and I about interfacing their 
hardware to FG and linux.  Unfortunately, other priorities got in the 
way and nothing further developed.

But I guess people just want to keep beating their heads against the 
wall  ;-)

JW

Jim Campbell wrote:

>Hello,
>For those building their own cockpits and requiring input and output 
>from switches and rotary controls and to lights and relays etc have a 
>look at the Velleman USB experimenters interface boards!
>http://www.velleman.be/ot/en/product/view/?id=364910
>and
>http://www.velleman.be/ot/en/product/view/?id=351346
>There are various examples on the Web for both Linux and Mac sware to 
>drive these boards.
>Boards are addressable so you can have multiple instances. I have 
>purchased the cheaper board to experiment with (available in pre-built 
>as well as kit form).
>cheers
>Jim
>
>
>  
>



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